Russell Howard: How To Laugh Through Fear, Anxiety & Imposter Syndrome | E109

1. 0:00 – 3:22

   Intro

   1. RHRussell Howard0:00

      If they're laughing, it's fine. If they're not, it ain't.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett0:03

      This is the Russell Howard we have never seen before.

   3. RHRussell Howard0:07

      When you are low, it leaves you mentally fragile, but then that makes you work hard and go again, because you know the excitement you get from making them laugh. It's an unhealthy treadmill, but at the end of that treadmill, there is this incredible cherry. That's what happiness is. Figure out a healthier way of being the best you without it being so draining, to realize what you have. There will always be sort of shimmering lights of hope in, in the misery, but sometimes somebody has to help you find them. When he died, it was just this sledgehammer to your heart where you just go, "Jesus, one of the, one of the, one of the good souls isn't here anymore."

   4. SBSteven Bartlett0:59

      Russell Howard. I've watched Russell Howard on TV for years and years and years. And of all the podcasts I've done, Russell and this conversation was the most stark difference between the person I've seen on TV and the person I had a conversation with today. I think your mind is going to be blown. He's got a new Netflix show coming out called Lubricant. And the reason it's called Lubricant is because he believes comedy and laughter is the lubricant that allows us to deal with the pain of life, and we talk about the pain of his life. We talk about everything. And in this conversation, there's more tears. Recently, I did an episode on this podcast with Jimmy Carr, and the resounding feedback we got was, "We've never seen that Jimmy Carr before." I have a suspicion, in fact, I know that people are gonna say the same about this conversation. This is the Russell Howard we have never seen before, and it's an incredibly inspiring, valuable, vulnerable Russell Howard. It's the side, as a Russell Howard fan, that I wish I'd seen more of. I have a feeling you're going to be really surprised. So without further ado, I'm Steven Bartlett, and this is The Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. "I'm funny because of my mum, and I'm determined because of my dad." You said that, right?

   5. RHRussell Howard2:30

      I did say that, yeah. I felt like that was the beginning of a riddle-

   6. SBSteven Bartlett2:33

      (laughs)

   7. RHRussell Howard2:34

      ... where you were a sort of a Gollum figure.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett2:35

      (laughs)

   9. RHRussell Howard2:36

      I was trying to understand. Yeah.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett2:37

       Can you explain it to me, please?

   11. RHRussell Howard2:39

       Um, my mum is a, a warm, twinkly-eyed little lady who is inadvertently funny all the time, has no idea of her power, is just naturally, uh, bright and joyful. Uh, if you ever feel that you're kind of getting used to hotels and the humdrum life of, "Oh, here we are in another place," um, take my mum with you, separate rooms-

   12. SBSteven Bartlett3:09

       Separate rooms.

   13. RHRussell Howard3:09

       ... and watch her reaction when she goes into a hotel room because it reminds you of how you used to be.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett3:15

       Oh, I'd really love to see-

   15. RHRussell Howard3:16

       "Jesus Christ, they've got kettles, they've got teabags. Look, they've got a trouser press. Look."

   16. SBSteven Bartlett3:21

       (laughs)

   17. RHRussell Howard3:21

       Like, she's so

2. 3:22 – 7:10

   Your family

   1. RHRussell Howard3:22

      excited and happy by the world. And my dad is, um, (laughs) a very quiet, unbelievably determined man, who, you know, when we were kids, we'd sort of... He'd have us mixing cement. Um, we'd be sort of, like, you know, building kind of walls with him, plastering as a kid. I remember watching my dad plaster, and he was trying to keep this kind of wall up, and he screamed to himself, "Come on, David."

   2. SBSteven Bartlett3:50

      (laughs)

   3. RHRussell Howard3:50

      And sort of even at 11, I was going, "Ah, it's a bit much." Um, so I have these kind of two very different, uh, dominant personalities that kind of raised me, who I love dearly both, but they are very, very different, you know?

   4. SBSteven Bartlett4:05

      Mm-hmm.

   5. RHRussell Howard4:05

      And my dad challenged me to a press-up competition recently-

   6. SBSteven Bartlett4:08

      (laughs)

   7. RHRussell Howard4:08

      ... um, at, at a family barbecue, and he beat me. He did, um, 68.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett4:13

      You're joking?

   9. RHRussell Howard4:14

      He did, yeah. And he's, uh, uh, 65 years old and, uh, yeah. I remember this story, th- this sums my dad up. Uh, I had a school report when I was 11, and the teacher said, "Um, what Russell needs to know is that he can't do everything." And I, I kinda go home and, you know, in that moment you give the report, and your dad looks at me and he goes, "Wha- what does this mean?" You go, "Well, the teacher says that I, I can't do everything." He goes, "Why'd you say that?" "W- well, I just think that I can. I think I can do anything if I put my mind to it." And my dad goes, "You gotta go down that school now and tell her that." So I have to walk back to the school-

   10. SBSteven Bartlett4:48

       You're joking?

   11. RHRussell Howard4:49

       Yeah. And I kinda go in and go, "My dad says I can do anything, and you're not allowed to say that I can't." Which is a pretty, you know, incredible thing to do, but, you know, it made school tough.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett4:58

       (laughs)

   13. RHRussell Howard4:59

       So yeah, very different.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett5:01

       What about brothers and sisters?

   15. RHRussell Howard5:03

       Uh, I have, uh, a brother, uh, Daniel, who's an amazing human being, very funny. Um, um, and I have a sister who's an actress, who's, uh, also incredible. Um, they're very different as well. Um, I'm very close to my brother, not so much to my sister. We sort of... Or my brother. We just played football together as kids. And oddly, Kerry is in the same world as me now and is kind of a BAFTA nominated actress. She was in, um-

   16. SBSteven Bartlett5:28

       Wow.

   17. RHRussell Howard5:28

       ... Him & Her, BBC Three.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett5:30

       Mm-hmm.

   19. RHRussell Howard5:30

       And s- super talented, and yeah, a great human being. The, the, we're... They're a lovely bunch, but very strange, my family. It's like being in a Pogues song when you go to kind of Christmas parties-

   20. SBSteven Bartlett5:41

       (laughs)

   21. RHRussell Howard5:41

       ... around our way. Do you know what I mean?

   22. SBSteven Bartlett5:42

       Yeah.

   23. RHRussell Howard5:42

       Do you have... It's sort of, you know, those, like... I remember, weirdly, the funeral of my nan and grandad, um, separate. It sounded like they... (laughs) It was packed.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett5:53

       Yeah. (laughs)

   25. RHRussell Howard5:54

       But, but, um, that feeling sometimes when you go to a funeral and you're so proud to have the same blood as the people in the room.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett6:01

       Mm-hmm.

   27. RHRussell Howard6:01

       I kind of feel that whenever I'm back with my family in the West Country. There's, there's such a-... lunacy and energy to them that I adore and feel so, kind of, delighted to be part of, you know.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett6:14

       Mm-hmm.

   29. RHRussell Howard6:14

       It's kind of... Yeah.

   30. SBSteven Bartlett6:17

       Um, Jimmy Carr said something to me which I've been waiting to ask another comedian. There's a stereotype that comedians are funny because they're depressed.
3. 7:10 – 14:21

   Why you ultimately became a comedian

   1. RHRussell Howard7:10

      break Dad's serious energy was to make him laugh, you know.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett7:16

      Mm-hmm.

   3. RHRussell Howard7:16

      So definitely, it was kind of there's no tension if people are like... I've got a line in my new special which is laughter is the lubricant that makes life livable, and it- it, you know, it really- it soothes those tensions, and it's a bandage that gets over cracks, definitely, you know. And then it's sort of (clears throat) this thing that you, when you discover you're, you know, you can make people laugh, it's so addictive, and you can literally create your own energy. And like you do an arena, there's 15,000 people there, you're orchestrating this almost societal orgasm where th- th- they're kind of like lost in laughter together. It's... Yo- you feel like a necromancer, man. It's the best. And I think Jim's right in that it- it, th- that initial spark comes from probably, I'm thinking of other comedians as well as myself, it's sort of that sense of, you know, like I've got a lazy eye, so that was a de- you know, uh, so I became funny to deflect and did jokes about my eyes to get, to stop people looking at them.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett8:15

      Mm-hmm.

   5. RHRussell Howard8:15

      And then you kind of realize, you go, "Ah, okay, this is kind of cool," or if you're a bit thick, or if you're not good at football, or you don't fit in, you can kind of sort of rebrand yourself in a strange way through humor. And you-

   6. SBSteven Bartlett8:31

      Yeah.

   7. RHRussell Howard8:31

      ... you can create your own kind of energy. That sounds kind of wanky, but do you know what I mean?

   8. SBSteven Bartlett8:37

      Of course I do, 'cause there's- there's also another stereotype which is that people who are slightly, um, slightly bigger t- tend to be really bubbly and have funny personalities-

   9. RHRussell Howard8:46

      Right.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett8:46

       ... and they're comedians as well-

   11. RHRussell Howard8:47

       (laughs)

   12. SBSteven Bartlett8:47

       ... which is, would fit that kind of idea that it's a po- it's a tool of deflection-

   13. RHRussell Howard8:52

       Yeah.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett8:52

       ... from something else pe- you know, they don't want them to focus on, or...

   15. RHRussell Howard8:56

       Mm-hmm.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett8:57

       Um, you talk about it being linked, heavily linked to self-esteem as well, and your...

   17. RHRussell Howard9:01

       Yeah. Yeah, well, what's odd, the further you get into it, you realize that it's so much fun doing standup, um, and it's such a wild drug, effectively, because you're doing these massive gigs in front of 2,000 people and everyone's laughing, or 15,000 people, or you're r- New York, you're doing a gig in Finland, and it, you- you can't quite get over it. And then as a consequence, it's quite hard to sit down and watch the TV and be normal, and, um, so you're kind of chasing that sort of high. And it's about the real, the real skill is trying to figure out the sort of work/life balance, you know.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett9:37

       Mm-hmm.

   19. RHRussell Howard9:37

       And I'm speaking as somebody whose, uh, house is above-

   20. SBSteven Bartlett9:41

       Yeah. (laughs)

   21. RHRussell Howard9:42

       ... his work. But do you know what I mean? It's like s- the only, the only way around it is to sort of integrate it really, but, that, like, I don't know... I've been doing standup since I was 18. I remember doing the first gig, and it felt like it was you sort of discovered a mechanism through which you can do life, that everything, sad, good, happy, weird, peculiar can go through this sausage maker and you can then, uh, understand life, figure it out, but also that's a very strange way to- to do it because you, you, you're, you know, you're using the stage to kind of, um, uh, dissect yourself. But the aim is always funny. But I don't know of a better way to do it than to kind of make sense of the world. And the funny thing about all comics is guaranteed if they find themselves in a strange situation, sometimes a heartbreaking situation in life, there's always a little part of your brain going, "There could be a bit in this." And it's that horrible sort of, you know, sort of disease that we have-

   22. SBSteven Bartlett10:43

       (laughs)

   23. RHRussell Howard10:43

       ... that you can't ever truly be there because there's always a little bit of you, whether you're Seinfeld or, you know, Taylor Tomlinson or Bill Burr or Chappelle or whatever, your brain is going, "Yep, there's stuff in this." Do you know what I mean?

   24. SBSteven Bartlett10:57

       (laughs)

   25. RHRussell Howard10:57

       As you're having the, as you're getting beaten up or whatever, your brain... I remember getting mugged in Brighton when I was 18, and, uh, and this, this guy shouting at me, "Come back, I'm a police officer." He clearly wasn't. And I said, "No, you're not, you're a monster." And as I said it, I went, "Yeah, that's gonna be quite funny, I reckon, but..."

   26. SBSteven Bartlett11:16

       (laughs)

   27. RHRussell Howard11:16

       Like, but I'm literally running away, I'm terrified, but my brain's going, "Yeah, I'll probably build a little bit around that." And it's, well I think all, all comics that I know have that thing where reality is always auditioning to find its way into your set.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett11:32

       Wow. That could, uh, that could get out of hand and you could start willing misfortune on yourself.

   29. RHRussell Howard11:37

       This is the weird thing. Yeah, well the... But-

   30. SBSteven Bartlett11:40

       (laughs)
4. 14:21 – 19:30

   Dealing with the high of comedy shows compared to normal life

   1. RHRussell Howard14:21

      trying to maintain that high, um, you know, if you're sort of drinking and you're doing drugs or whatnot, it's gonna make it harder to be-

   2. SBSteven Bartlett14:27

      Mm-hmm.

   3. RHRussell Howard14:28

      ... that version. It's kind of like, whereas if you're a musician, you can still sing the song that they want you to sing if you're on kind of coke or, like, or you're pissed up. It's kinda hard to be a good comic for a long time-

   4. SBSteven Bartlett14:40

      Mm.

   5. RHRussell Howard14:40

      ... if you're kind of, you know, on drink and drugs. So yeah, you have to sort of develop this kind of way of, like, reintegrating y- your life. But also, it's nonsense as well. It's just, it's, it's fun make-belief. Like, and, and, and also what's important is kind of, you know, going for a meal with your wife, and, and, and hanging out, and seeing friends, and, and there's joy in that, you know? And you see it's, you, you, you have to, you have to try, you have to plan fun, I think. That, that's the crucial thing. You have to go, "Right, we'll go on holiday, and we'll go to that restaurant, and we'll watch this film." Because I think, like you say, it's the sitting and the, and the waiting that is very difficult to compete with the, the innate rush that you get from standup.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett15:25

      Because of what you do professionally, do you find it harder to enjoy the sitting and the waiting and the meal where you're sat there just, you know, and the holiday where you're sat on the deck chair?

   7. RHRussell Howard15:36

      Not, like, I normally ... What I love about holidays i- I don't know what your feelings are about them, but by the end of, like, 10 days, I'm ready to go back to my life, because holidays remind me of how much I love my life. And that's the thing. So you need to have that kind of ... I'm a real sit in the sun, you know, read some books, um, listen to podcasts, whatever, and then kind of go again. But I like the recharge of it. If there was a, if there was a thing where you could literally plug yourself in, like, a mobile phone, I would happily do that on a beach. Do you know what I mean?

   8. SBSteven Bartlett16:08

      Mm-hmm.

   9. RHRussell Howard16:08

      And then kinda go again. But I'm not really a, when I'm in holiday mode, I'm not really a culture vulture. I'm kind of a sit down, plonk, book, sun, relax, get ill because I've been putting it off. Do you know what I mean?

   10. SBSteven Bartlett16:21

       Mm-hmm.

   11. RHRussell Howard16:21

       Your body just kinda gets a bit sick, and then you kinda go again. How about you? Do you, are you a relaxer?

   12. SBSteven Bartlett16:27

       Uh, I think I'm a forced relaxer.

   13. RHRussell Howard16:29

       Right. Yeah.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett16:30

       I think my girlfriend is the reason why I would go on holiday, and I think she's also the reason why I would be present on holiday, and-

   15. RHRussell Howard16:36

       Right.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett16:36

       ... she's the reason why I'd go and look at, like, a castle or something.

   17. RHRussell Howard16:39

       Okay.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett16:39

       But I think-

   19. RHRussell Howard16:39

       A castle?

   20. SBSteven Bartlett16:40

       Like, whatever she would wanna look at, but-

   21. RHRussell Howard16:42

       Okay.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett16:42

       ... I think if it was just up to me, I wouldn't go, and I-

   23. RHRussell Howard16:45

       Yeah.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett16:45

       ... wouldn't do it. And even if I did go, I wouldn't leave the hotel room.

   25. RHRussell Howard16:48

       Yes.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett16:48

       There's, like, strong evidence for that. Because whenever-

   27. RHRussell Howard16:50

       (laughs)

   28. SBSteven Bartlett16:50

       ... I've gone to speak in a country or whatever, I don't leave the hotel room.

   29. RHRussell Howard16:53

       Yeah.

   30. SBSteven Bartlett16:53

       I have no desire to do anything but just be on my phone or laptop. So, it's pretty sad, but I think it, you know, that's why it's fortunate that I have a girlfriend.
5. 19:30 – 26:52

   Getting into stand up

   1. RHRussell Howard19:30

      And, um, and I didn't tell anyone about it. I just started writing these little kind of jokes and routines and ideas.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett19:37

      Mm-hmm.

   3. RHRussell Howard19:38

      That, um, none of which were any good, but they just became like my little, it was like my little fun place to go to every so often, I goes, "Well, I'm gonna write some of my jokes."

   4. SBSteven Bartlett19:47

      Did you perform them to anybody at that age?

   5. RHRussell Howard19:48

      My first ever gig was in Bristol, a place called Virgin Merth. And I took all these jokes that I've been writing since I was 14, and I whittled it down to my best 20 and, uh, I did it there at Virgin Merth. I followed a guy, uh, who was eating a banana with a spoon-

   6. SBSteven Bartlett20:03

      (laughs)

   7. RHRussell Howard20:03

      ... singing the theme tune to the Sweeney. Um, and, uh, another bloke that was sort of like his act was to punch himself in the face. So in a sense, it didn't really matter how bad my (laughs) 14-year-old stuff was. Um, but yeah, so that was it, and then I kind of ... Some of it s- stuck, some of it didn't. But it was all like ... And I had this bit about like, "How did Captain Kirk get through the entire ..." I wrote this when I was 14.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett20:27

      Okay. (laughs)

   9. RHRussell Howard20:27

      But, "How did Captain Kirk get through all the Star Trek episodes without once flicking Spock's ears?" So that was one of my first s- ... So, and I sort of think it's all right, it's not bad.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett20:35

       It's not bad.

   11. RHRussell Howard20:36

       But-

   12. SBSteven Bartlett20:36

       But you've come a long way.

   13. RHRussell Howard20:37

       But that was the first joke I ever kind of told.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett20:39

       And one of the things I found quite peculiar in your story is that your, your dad, y- um, really pushed you to give comedy a go.

   15. RHRussell Howard20:46

       Yeah.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett20:47

       And that, that seems ... I ... Of all the guests I sit here with, the thing that has typically made them, um, famous or well-known or successful-

   17. RHRussell Howard20:57

       Yeah.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett20:57

       ... they, th- their parents were usually quite against it and would much rather have them got a quote unquote real job.

   19. RHRussell Howard21:03

       Yes.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett21:04

       So, uh, what were you doing at the time? Um, and w- yeah, wh- why, why was your dad s- supportive of it, uh, when, you know, at a time when that's probably not considered a highly profitable, high chance of success career?

   21. RHRussell Howard21:17

       Yeah. I was working at the RAC in Bristol at a part-time job. Um, and I was also doing standup, and I'd ... 'Cause I'd started standup at university and then finished my degree, went home, and, uh, (clears throat) was just kind of doing probably three gigs a week for, you know, 50 quid a pop plus like sometimes 100 quid a pop, that kind of thing. And, um, uh, alongside this kind of like shift at the RAC. And it was ... I was kind of like, I'd have a gig in Lincoln and then I'd have to drive back to get to work and it was, it was kind of like knackering. And my dad basically ... I remember weirdly, not to name drop, but I was talking to Matthew McConaughey about this. And it's a very similar thing where his dad, when he told his dad he wasn't gonna become a lawyer, he was gonna become a comedian. He, um, um, an actor. His dad said, "Don't half-ass it." And that was my, similar reaction to my dad. My dad basically was like, "Right, if you wanna do this, you're 21, go for it. Give yourself a year. Don't stop. Put everything into it. And then if, if it's not happening in a year, you stop, you get a proper job." And I kind of, I, I really respected that option that he gave me. Do you know what I mean? It was like, "I'll be fine." It was like, "Don't fuck around. Properly go for it. Don't do three gigs a week, do five gigs a week. S- just do that and then see where you are in a year." And, um, I was at the Edinburgh Festival. I had about like eight days left from this kind of like contract. W- w- and, uh, my now agent saw me at the Edinburgh Festival, have like a really good gig, and he kind of went, "Oh, does it always go that well?" And I said, "All the time, are you mad?" Yeah.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett23:06

       (laughs)

   23. RHRussell Howard23:07

       Um, but it was, I was doing lots of sort of improvising and stuff like that. I was quite hit-and-miss back then. And then we went for a, we went for a meal. He gave me ... I used to have a, a thing called the Comedy Network where it was like 30 gigs around universities. And that day, he booked into these 30 gigs that were, at the time, I still remember the money, it's £150 per gig, spreading out into November. And, but to work for, um, a comedy company called Avalon. It's one of the biggest kind of comedy produces in the, in the UK. And then he signed me. And so it, it worked. And then I kind of moved to London and kind of, you know, slowly kind of kept on keeping on. I really l- I liked the deadline that my dad gave me. Do you know what I mean? Because it was kind of ... And I re- I re- really respected it. And he, th- he had this amazing quote on his office that, that said something like, I think it's by T-E, T.S. Eliot or T.E. Eliot that said, "Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their mind, wake in the day to find that all is vanity. But the dreamers of the day are dangerous, for they act upon their visions with open eyes and make them happen." And that-... is at the core of my dad, so he's kind of quite disciplined, but he also has a "Fuck it, go for it." But yeah, I just went for it. Uh, but also because I loved it, and I didn't love working at the RSC, and I- I didn't... I'd finished my degree and I knew what I wanted to do, and I just g- I just worked my bollocks off, man. I did every gig you can imagine, a- but loved it. And my brother used to come to them, we'd travel down to Brighton to do 10 minutes, and, uh, you know, we'd, we'd have to sort of bunny hop the car to Reading station because we didn't fill up, and, you know, it was, it was real kind of fly by the seat of your pants stuff. But just the best, it was the best. It was like w- it was the best night out. You go to Plymouth and y- you know, it's a six-hour round journey, but you do 20 minutes and it goes great, and then the promoter says, "Oh, we'll get you back," and you're like, "Brilliant, I go back to Plymouth."

   24. SBSteven Bartlett25:09

       Mm-hmm.

   25. RHRussell Howard25:10

       You know? And, um, yeah, it sort of all worked out.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett25:14

       Something that is so interesting when, when I speak to successful comedians, because it's one of the like purest forms of like in- insanely... well, I say insanely, but like i- if you were trying to reach a lucrative outcome, one of the like insane paths, uh, one of the s- most s- insane pure followings of one's passion, because i- it- it t- seems to be the case that you follow your... this passion, which doesn't promise to ever pay you that well-

   27. RHRussell Howard25:43

       Yeah.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett25:43

       ... or promises no chance of success, and you follow it for years-

   29. RHRussell Howard25:47

       Yeah.

   30. SBSteven Bartlett25:47

       ... getting paid 50 quid, 100 quid.
6. 26:52 – 29:47

   What are the key things that got you here?

   1. RHRussell Howard26:52

      they're laughing, it's fine (laughs) ; if they're not, it ain't.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett26:55

      Mm-hmm.

   3. RHRussell Howard26:55

      And that's the big thing, really. It's just kind of, you know... e- all great comedians listen to the audience 'cause they're all that matters. And y- y- i- you can be critically lauded, you can be, um, you can win awards, you know, But ultimately, if, if you don't hear laughter, you won't be here, and it's... and you have to have new stuff. That's the big thing, you have to, you have to make them laugh and constantly, constantly renew yourself, that's the thing-

   4. SBSteven Bartlett27:24

      Mm-hmm.

   5. RHRussell Howard27:25

      ... um, to kind of, to stick around.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett27:28

      You make the audience laugh, they all burst out laughing, they clap, they say, "Oh, you're amazing," after the gig, they say, "We're gonna rebook you, you're the best person ever." Does that impact your self-esteem in a positive way?

   7. RHRussell Howard27:38

      Yeah, of course, yeah.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett27:39

      Yeah.

   9. RHRussell Howard27:39

      Imagine that. Uh, yeah, it's... uh, yeah, it's the best, man. It's just... but that feeling when you do the Brighton Comedia and you're 20, and you do 10 minutes and it goes really well, and Steven Grant, who is still the booker at the Brighton Comedia, says, "Oh, we'll get you back for a 20." That journey home is the best. Or someone says, "Are you gonna do the... we're gonna get you back to, uh, to host, uh, the Lincoln student night." And you're like, "Yeah." "Do you wanna do it monthly?" "Yes!" And you build up this like little following in Lincoln, because it's... the... a- i- i- it's c- it's... of course your self-esteem is just up there, because you feel like you're a youth team footballer that's breaking into the first team.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett28:21

       Mm-hmm.

   11. RHRussell Howard28:21

       That's how it must feel like. You feel like you're kind of Phil Foden and you get these little opportunities. It's a pretty similar thing with footballers, like what makes Phil Foden probably that he has natural talent, he works his arse off, and when there's opportunities, he's kind of clinical enough to take advantage of them. Do you know what I mean? And learn from mistakes, that's the b-... and comedy is, is constantly about learning from mistakes, because you go, you do new material, doesn't work, you, you tweak it, you tweak it, you tweak it until you get something that, that, that kind of makes them laugh.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett28:53

       We- we... One would then assume that comedians have like just tremendously high self-esteem.

   13. RHRussell Howard29:00

       S- i- if they're laughing, yeah. But then, what... the i- the interesting thing as well is how quickly it crumbles down if it goes badly. And I've got a friend of mine, Al Pitcher, who's a comic in Sweden, and we talk about this a lot, where when you're low, it... irrespective of what you've done before, you just feel like s- y- like such deep, deep shame that you've been unable to kind of make them laugh. Um, but then that makes you work hard and go again, because you know the excitement you get from making them laugh. So it's this... it's an unhealthy treadmill, but at the end of that treadmill there is this incredible cherry.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett29:36

       Deep, deep shame.

   15. RHRussell Howard29:37

       Well, b- just because it's embarrassing. It's like you've, you've tried to make... like even this, I'm really enjoying this-

   16. SBSteven Bartlett29:44

       Mm-hmm.

   17. RHRussell Howard29:44

       ... and it's really fun, but it's very serious, and we've got-

   18. SBSteven Bartlett29:46

       Mm-hmm.

   19. RHRussell Howard29:46

       ... like a little mini

7. 29:47 – 32:10

   How does the laugh impact you

   1. RHRussell Howard29:47

      audience over there I can hear, and every little laugh my brain's going, "That's good."

   2. SBSteven Bartlett29:51

      (laughs)

   3. RHRussell Howard29:52

      And when they're not, I'm like, "Uh, fucking hell, this is great."

   4. SBSteven Bartlett29:54

      Really?

   5. RHRussell Howard29:54

      Yeah, totally, just because you sort of feel like th- l- you know, it's sort of that weird thing for me, laughter is truth and victory, and silence is failure. But then the interesting th- thing about that is when you watch a performance, you actually realize that... of a... of another comic, you go, "Wow, there's real power in the silence, actually," which took me a long time to realize, 'cause I was very... initially I'm brr, brr, brr, brr, just keep it up, keep it up, keep it up. And then you kind of... you know, you, you watch someone like Chappelle o-... um, for example, and you go, "Oh, he's a real master of the silence," and you don't l- you're n- you don't lose him. Do you know what I mean? And you're not away, you're captivated. But it takes a really long time to feel that you've earned the right to captivate an audience.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett30:41

      Yeah.

   7. RHRussell Howard30:41

      But there's captivation in silence, but who fucking thinks they're captivating? That's the hardest thing I find, is to kind of ... You can never know whether you've been captivating or dull-

   8. SBSteven Bartlett30:52

      (laughs)

   9. RHRussell Howard30:53

      ... because the sound is the same. (laughs) Do you know what I mean?

   10. SBSteven Bartlett30:55

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   11. RHRussell Howard30:55

       It's sort of that weird thing of like ... I mean, I don't come off stage going, "Was that captivating or dull?"

   12. SBSteven Bartlett31:00

       Yeah, yeah.

   13. RHRussell Howard31:00

       Um, but hopefully, yeah.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett31:03

       It's really interesting. So, whe- when you have conversations like this, because there is no, like, there's not huge amounts of laughter 'cause it's a serious conversation-

   15. RHRussell Howard31:11

       Oh, but I love chats like this. This is-

   16. SBSteven Bartlett31:13

       Brilliant.

   17. RHRussell Howard31:13

       ... the best, man. But yeah, go on.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett31:15

       I was g- that's what I was basically asking was, um, it's, uh, when we, when we have comedians come here, we've had Russell Kane, we've had obviously Jimmy Carr. Um, they do make a lot of jokes.

   19. RHRussell Howard31:25

       Yeah.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett31:25

       Uh, e- even before we're filming, I think. You know, Jack will like put the microphone close to Jimmy Carr's mouth and I think he said something like, um, "Just keep it like a fist away." And he said, "That's what your mother said." (laughs)

   21. RHRussell Howard31:37

       Yes. Yeah.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett31:38

       And it, it's almost like a, um, a Tourette's of humor, which is-

   23. RHRussell Howard31:42

       Yeah.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett31:43

       And I wonder how you kinda get through life like that. And it almost feels like uncontrollable for you.

   25. RHRussell Howard31:48

       Yeah, well, the ... Honestly, that is the best description of it. Like, there's a joke that I think sums up comedians' brains the best by a brilliant comedian called, um, Mitch Hedberg. He, he's, uh, no longer with us. One of the greatest comedians of all time. And thi- this joke sums up the brain that comedians have, where ... And I'll do his impression f- if

8. 32:10 – 35:52

   Looking for the 'bit' in everything

   1. RHRussell Howard32:10

      there's fans of Mitch out there, forgive me for this, but it works better if you try and do it as him. He kind of goes, "I mumble, man. I mumble a lot offstage. I'm a mumbler. So I'll be with my friend, and I'll, I'll say something and he'll be like, "What?" And I'll say it again a little bit louder, and he'll be like, "I didn't hear you." And then the third time I'll say it and he still can't hear me, so I'll say it to him, but now I'm yelling at him, 'That tree is far away.'" (laughs) And that's what it is. It's this thing in his head that's gone, "Oh, the tree's far away." And he- he ... It's a joke about the mania. "Like, what were you on about?" "I was just saying that tree's over there look. But it's not. It's further away than ..." And it's that thing. The amount of times I've been with my wo- my wife and you sort of say something. And she goes, "Oh, what the fuck are you on about?" Just ... L- I saw this bin in Primrose Hill the other day that genuinely said, "Protect, um, our birds." This was the line on the bin. "Protect our birds." There was a picture of like a, a, a bird. "And respect their way of life." And I just went into this thing of like, "I don't know how you show respect to a fucking bird." Like, in my head-

   2. SBSteven Bartlett33:17

      (laughs)

   3. RHRussell Howard33:17

      ... I'm just kind of like, "I didn't know there were disgruntled chaffinches all over Primrose Hill." I've never seen that on the news, of just kind of going, "Today a bird was the victim of, of, uh, you know, of, of, of somebody attacking it." My, my brain was just like whirring around with this. And she can see I'm, I'm kind of full zombie eyes, just gone.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett33:35

      (laughs)

   5. RHRussell Howard33:35

      She said, "What are you on about?" I go, "Ah, a fucking bin was respo-" ... And it, it's sort of that, that's kind of the, the way that comics' brains are, I think. That you j- you spend a lot of time playing around in your head. Um, and then you kind of go, "Ah, that, that might be something." You know?

   6. SBSteven Bartlett33:51

      Mm-hmm.

   7. RHRussell Howard33:51

      Like, we were, the other day, um, I was talking to a friend about sperm donors. And somebody had had, uh ... There was this website, and on the ... You could sort of get, you could get your batch. And it s- one of them was like, um, uh, you know, he was like six foot four, Swedish, keen reader. And, um, he did a really good job. And you're like, "Yeah, that's exactly what I'd say if I was trying to flog spunk."

   8. SBSteven Bartlett34:19

      (laughs)

   9. RHRussell Howard34:19

      Do you know what I mean? You're not gonna kind of go, "Bit, bit of a loner."

   10. SBSteven Bartlett34:22

       (laughs)

   11. RHRussell Howard34:22

       "Hums in every Wednesday."

   12. SBSteven Bartlett34:24

       I love it (laughs) .

   13. RHRussell Howard34:24

       "We've had to stop him..." Bleh. But, but my point being, we were having a chat about sperm donating. And my brain was sort of off in this sort of fantasy land.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett34:34

       "Where's the bit?" Kind of like-

   15. RHRussell Howard34:35

       Well, what ju- I just found it so funny though, I don't know any true six foot four, high achieving intellectuals that kind of just give their nip out to, uh, spaff into a pot.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett34:44

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   17. RHRussell Howard34:44

       Do you know what I mean? It doesn't exist. But-

   18. SBSteven Bartlett34:46

       It's not everyone's Tinder p- tinder bio.

   19. RHRussell Howard34:47

       Totally.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett34:48

       Yeah. (laughs)

   21. RHRussell Howard34:48

       But, but the point is, you s- you spend a lot of time in that kind of fun zone. Um, and that, I think that's the brain that a lot of comics have.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett34:58

       Speaking of that brain spiraling.

   23. RHRussell Howard35:00

       Mm-hmm.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett35:00

       When ... After you've done a gig or, you know. Can you remember a time where you, you like, go on Google, you go on the Daily Mail or something, you ... Twitter, and you look at articles of what people are saying of you.

   25. RHRussell Howard35:10

       Mm-hmm.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett35:10

       And it has a really profound like negative impact on your, what you think about yourself, and you start to question yourself?

   27. RHRussell Howard35:17

       I don't do it. Like, I, I came up in the days of, uh, MySpace and whatnot. And that was ... I've never been on Twitter. I've never been on Facebook. Um, uh, I do a bit of Instagram. It's the same with reviews. Rev- it's a very funny thing. You get a five star review and your brain's like, "Exactly. Yep. Correct." You get a shitty review and you're like, "What the fuck?" And you realize that you have to pay no heed to it. The only ... I mean, it's flattering and it's great, and it's lovely to get nice reviews, and anyone who says otherwise is bullshitting. But it's, with social media, you, you c- you

9. 35:52 – 42:10

   How do negative reviews impact you?

   1. RHRussell Howard35:52

      can't ... It's too much to kind of seek validation from people. Particularly in the world that we live in, uh, uh, at the minute, where you're having to check to see if you've been correct for ... You're, you're not gonna be right for everybody. And, and some people will not like a joke, or some people su- You know, you just have to try and stay where you, well, stay where you are. So, I- I've definitely had times like that when I was younger, and it just crushes you. And you realize, actually, all I'm doing is paying attention to the really negative things that people say. Um, and there'll be like, you know, one out of 50 that's super horrible.... um, rather than focusing on, on the kind things. And you realize, actually, my brain focuses on the negative and you go, "Yeah, they're right actually. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I am that. Yep, yep, oh, yep, correct, correct, correct." And it just doesn't make me a better, more functional human being. It just, it hurts. So I don't do it. Do you know what I mean? So I just kind of-

   2. SBSteven Bartlett36:49

      But people must have said to you, your agents, your managers said, "Oh, get on Twitter. That'll help."

   3. RHRussell Howard36:53

      Yeah. Well, what, what I do and what I love about social media is I like making things and then putting it on there. And so putting clips of standup or the TV show or whatever. But I, I, I, I don't... I'm lucky. I have a, I... If I wanna do comedy, I can go to a comedy club-

   4. SBSteven Bartlett37:09

      Mm-hmm.

   5. RHRussell Howard37:09

      ... and it's a dark room and I can howl, or I can scream or I can be silly. I can do whatever I want. It's in a comedy club. Social media's the worst comedy club in the world.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett37:19

      Mm-hmm.

   7. RHRussell Howard37:19

      Because people aren't there to laugh. (laughs)

   8. SBSteven Bartlett37:21

      Hmm.

   9. RHRussell Howard37:21

      Do you know what I mean? Everyone there is there to laugh. And there's this sort of lovely bonding experience. We're here for a reason. Whereas social media, some people, most people in the world are just up for a hoot, but some people are, are, are looking to be, to be angry or they're looking to be enraged. So, it just seems naive to put humor into such a volatile club. Imagine if you, if it was a club called Twitter, right? "Hey, do you wanna come play Twitter?" Can you imagine how hard that comedy club would be?

   10. SBSteven Bartlett37:52

       Mm-hmm.

   11. RHRussell Howard37:52

       Do you know what I mean? And so I just don't, I don't bother with it, but I like making things that are finished and then putting them out. But I kind of literally email them to my agent, then say, "Oh, we should put this bit from the show on." I don't even know.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett38:05

       Wow.

   13. RHRussell Howard38:05

       I haven't got my logins. I don't know if-

   14. SBSteven Bartlett38:06

       Really?

   15. RHRussell Howard38:07

       Yeah, yeah. Just because-

   16. SBSteven Bartlett38:08

       What a nice way to live.

   17. RHRussell Howard38:08

       Yeah, but, but, but... And also, maybe it's because I'm 41 and I kind of came up in an era where standup was still playing clubs. If you're, if you're a young guy now, um, it must be completely different. And there's loads of kind of great comics that have kind of come up through social media, um, or through podcasts, and I love that. Because there's... Particularly podcasts, I think, with, like, young comics, there's a real air of punk about it-

   18. SBSteven Bartlett38:33

       Mm-hmm.

   19. RHRussell Howard38:33

       ... where you're kind of going, "I'm not gonna wait for TV to give me anything. I'm gonna make my own thing," and then people gravitate to that. And, uh, and it's, it... That's your thing. And, and you, you can't mess with that. Whereas... I love that. I love the fact that people aren't gonna be waiting for TV to anoint them. But I was very lucky that I was just doing live gigs, and then when I was 26, after having done standup since I was 18, somebody said, "Do you wanna go on TV?" And I kind of went the traditional path, as it were, and kind of social media grew alongside it. But I was never... I n- I never needed it. Which is not to say I couldn't have been bigger if I cultivated it, but the content I like making exists in the club, and it's finished when I do a Netflix special, or it's finished when I do a TV show. It's n- it's in a state of flux when I'm in a comedy club. Um, it's in a constant state of becoming. And the problem with social media, it makes everything finite and tangible, and sometimes it's not. Sometimes jokes evolve or routines evolve. If you put it out there, it, it might be rubbish or it might be ill-conceived, it might upset people, but by the end of it, having worked in it in a comedy club, it might say exactly what you want it to say. And so it's a really sort of, sort of holy space, the comedy club. Th- th- versus, versus Twitter.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett40:02

       Why should you drink Huel? We're going into the fourth quarter of the year. Diets are dropping off. We're becoming lazier and lazier. And what tends to happen when we, when our diets dip and we, we start to become less, um, compelled to go to the gym is, yeah, we get out of shape. We start to feel low energy. We start to binge eat bad things. And Huel is the antidote. It's nutritionally complete, so you get everything you need for your diet in a drink. You get your 20 grams of proteins. You're gonna get your 26 vitamins and, vitamins and minerals. It's low sugar, high in fiber. It really is the cure to a lot of the health issues that we see in our personal lives, but in wider s- society. If you've never tried it, all I'll ask you to do is give it a try. And if you're like me, then you will like the Wild Berry ready-to-drink. You'll like the mac and cheese, which is just selling like absolutely cr- crazy, unsurprisingly. Um, you'll like the cinnamon, and you'll like the banana flavor. Those are my recommendations. I know a lot of people love the chocolate flavor. Let me know. Try it, get yourself healthy, and send me a message on Instagram. Tag me on Instagram as well on your stories if you do dr- try it out, 'cause I, I sometimes upload those tags. And let me know which is your favorite flavor. Can't wait to hear from you. As a comedian, do you ever feel a sense of imposter syndrome?

   21. RHRussell Howard41:17

       Yeah. I think... I don't know any great comic that doesn't. I'm, uh, talking to Billy Connolly. Billy Connolly used to get nervous. Bi- Billy Connolly was worried that the audience wouldn't love him, that he wasn't worth th- their evening. Billy Connolly. If Billy Connolly is thinking that, then, you know, you know all of us are. And it's... I think if you get to that stage where you're like, "This is gonna be great. I know it's gonna be great," it probably won't. You have to have a healthy degree of, of, of imposter syndrome in order to be the best version of yourself, because you have to kind of, you know, you have to burst into that party and be the best, funniest you, because that's what's on the ticket. That's the, the thing. And the only way to do that is kinda hard work, you know. Um, but

10. 42:10 – 44:48

    Impostor syndrome

    1. RHRussell Howard42:10

       to, to, to just rock up, for example, to an arena tour having done no kind of warmups, "It'll be fine," it fucking won't. Arrogance destroys standup. You kinda have to, you have to go to small clubs before you start doing a tour to kinda know you're okay to get rid of that. And without imposter syndrome, you, uh, you don't grow as an artist. Do you know what I mean?

    2. SBSteven Bartlett42:35

       But it can be de- tough to deal with psychologically, right? Because it's, it, it is, it f- it sounds like it must be f- similar to living with a sense of, like, self-scrutiny, which can be quite unhealthy? I don't, I don't know.

    3. RHRussell Howard42:46

       Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, well, the, I guess, the, the key thing is to, you've got to... I think you have to leave on, on your own terms. (inhales deeply) Do you know what I mean? As in stop... there's a, there's a while where this won't be healthy forever, because it's a str- it is a strange way to live w- with that source.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett43:06

       Do you feel that? You feel like it won't be 100%?

    5. RHRussell Howard43:08

       Yeah, yeah, just because you just kind of go... there, there will just come a time where you're, you're just, you're not as sharp as you once were, and you're like, "Oh, fine, I'll just go work in local radio." But, like, d- like, not to, that's not a, a dig at anyone in local radio, you do important stuff, keep those weather checks coming.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett43:25

       (laughs)

    7. RHRussell Howard43:25

       But, doing kind of arenas f- for a long time is, you know, I've been doing them since, like, 2012 now, and that is a crazy level of pressure, because you sort of do, we do, I do them in, like, a month-long block in the UK. And y- it's kind of, whoof, right, okay. Yeah. You know, and then you get through it, and then you're like, "Okay, go again, go again." And that isn't necessarily the healthiest way to be forever.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett43:53

       Does it have mental health implications on you? 'Cause, uh, like, if you're living with that, kind of, internal fluctuation all the time, and that...

    9. RHRussell Howard44:02

       Yeah.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett44:02

        ... anticipation, that, those feelings of self-doubt, that, you know, they say that anxiety in particular is, like, concern about the future.

    11. RHRussell Howard44:08

        Mm.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett44:08

        If you're constantly thinking about the future, that moment in that arena, uh, is, uh, do you s- feel anxious at all?

    13. RHRussell Howard44:15

        Well, the funny thing is, the only time you don't feel anxious is when you're doing the, uh, when you're doing standup. But weirdly, that's the, that's the respite. Um, but the, leading up to it, it's nerve-wracking. But as soon as you step on the, uh, on the stage, you kind of, you know exactly what you're gonna do, and it's fun, it's the most fun in the world. And then it's the, but the leading up to it, and the afterwards, "Was that all right? Was that fine? It was good. All right, fine, fine." You know, I think you sort of just make your peace with it. And you, like you say, it's, it's meant, it leaves you mentally fragile, but

11. 44:48 – 55:03

    Mental health implications and using fear as a motivator

    1. RHRussell Howard44:48

       I don't know of another way of doing it. If-

    2. SBSteven Bartlett44:50

       Have you d- have you suffered with anxiety, though, typically?

    3. RHRussell Howard44:52

       Oh, yeah, massively. Uh, like, it's sort of... But I think it's sort of that thing, like, where I have these gigs, if I don't do this work, I'm gonna look like a fool, people are gonna boo me, there's gonna be anger, blah, blah, blah, blah. So you go... So that fear drives you to write and perform and get a show that's good enough, right? And I've not found anything that was a useful motivator. But like you say, it's a tough way of, of being. Like Johnny Wilkinson, I remember seeing this about him. Johnny Wilkinson kicked the, uh, winning, um, I don't know rugby, but the winning...

    4. SBSteven Bartlett45:25

       World Cup kick.

    5. RHRussell Howard45:25

       ... World Cup kick, yeah, right. Um, and as the ball sort of soared over, apparently he said to himself, his brain went, "You nearly missed that," as it went over. Like, and he's won the World Cup. And the next day, he was training, and he was kicking goals again, to ensure that he didn't make that mistake. And unfortunately, for him, that's what makes him magnificent. You know what I mean? And it, and, uh, I think it's sort of that thing where you go, the older you get, you can try and adapt it, and try and figure out, and, uh, you know, and we're all in a constant state of becoming, as regards our sort of mental health and trying to, um, figure out a healthier way of being the best you without it being so draining. But he scored the winning goal at the World Cup, you know? And it sort of, it's kinda shitty, but he, but, but that, that determination is what sort of made him, and it's kind of, I guess the thing is, it's about kind of ensuring that you have enough kindness to yourself around that, so that you kinda give yourself a break from time to time.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett46:38

       And that the overall picture is happy.

    7. RHRussell Howard46:40

       The, yeah.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett46:41

       Yeah.

    9. RHRussell Howard46:41

       But, but, but I don't know of a, a better motivator than fear to make good stuff. I, like, if it, if it exists. I mean, do, what, do you, ch- can you recognize that? Of, of, do you have th- what, what, is there another thing that you have? I, I guess, excitement? If you could turn fear into excitement, that would be a healthier way of doing it.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett47:00

        Yeah.

    11. RHRussell Howard47:00

        But I just don't find it as, "Ah, yeah-"

    12. SBSteven Bartlett47:02

        Motivating, yeah.

    13. RHRussell Howard47:03

        "... this is so much fun, 'cause we'll go there, and it's gonna be great."

    14. SBSteven Bartlett47:05

        But then you wouldn't do the prep, right, as you say. If I-

    15. RHRussell Howard47:08

        That's the problem.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett47:08

        ... if I was excited, I wouldn't, I'd probably neglect doing the prep.

    17. RHRussell Howard47:11

        Well, that would be the thing, so the, so you'd have, like, six months of joy.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett47:15

        Yeah.

    19. RHRussell Howard47:15

        And then (laughs) you'd do the thing, it would be-

    20. SBSteven Bartlett47:17

        Shit.

    21. RHRussell Howard47:17

        ... fucking awful.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett47:18

        (laughs)

    23. RHRussell Howard47:18

        And then, whereas a le- at least this way, you have six months of tension.

    24. SBSteven Bartlett47:22

        Mm-hmm.

    25. RHRussell Howard47:22

        And then you have joy, and then the kind of joy lasts throughout the tour. And then-

    26. SBSteven Bartlett47:27

        And then after the tour.

    27. RHRussell Howard47:27

        And then after the tour, you go back to fear.

    28. SBSteven Bartlett47:30

        (laughs) Yeah.

    29. RHRussell Howard47:31

        To get there. But I'd, but I don't know, like, it's, but I, I don't have the answers, and I, th- I, I don't know what works for other people. But for me, it, it is that. And it's something that I'm trying to address. But it-

    30. SBSteven Bartlett47:44

        Which part?
12. 55:03 – 1:03:07

    Therapy

    1. RHRussell Howard55:03

       m- m- m- work e- efficiently without it becoming debilitating. 'Cause I think that's the thing probably a lot of people suffer from, that by using fear as a motivator, sometimes it- you're probably losing 20% of your potential through kind of, um, panic. So yeah, it was sort of ... God, I sound like a fucking robot when I said that. But do you know what I mean?

    2. SBSteven Bartlett55:28

       Mmm.

    3. RHRussell Howard55:28

       It was sort of that thing of, like, just trying to figure out, "Okay, is there another way of doing this?"

    4. SBSteven Bartlett55:33

       Was there?

    5. RHRussell Howard55:35

       Uh, yeah. It's- but even recognizing when you're, um, just a bit full on, and just kinda going, "All right, just calm down." But I'm a real sucker for, like, little quotes, man. Or, I was, weirdly, I'm interviewing Will Smith on Thursday.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett55:49

       Oh, wow.

    7. RHRussell Howard55:50

       Which is mad. For 10 minutes, I've got a 10-minute interview with Will Smith.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett55:52

       Oh, God, I'm so jealous. They, they emailed me and said, oh ... 'cause we have the same publisher, like, "Will Smith's coming to town."

    9. RHRussell Howard55:58

       Yeah.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett55:58

        I was like, "Can I get him on the podcast?" Like, he's got no time.

    11. RHRussell Howard56:01

        Yeah.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett56:01

        I'd have loved 10 minutes.

    13. RHRussell Howard56:02

        Well, but this is it. Well, I'll sneak you along, man. I still-

    14. SBSteven Bartlett56:05

        (laughs)

    15. RHRussell Howard56:05

        I still can double up. What, but, buts, I was listening to the beginning of his book, and, um, it was a brilliant story about his dad made him and his, uh, brother build a wall, and it's just this, this is very, very simple analogy, you've probably read it, it's just brick by brick. And that's, particularly when you're making a TV show and you're writing topical jokes, sometimes, well, it's sometimes it's really hard to make stories interesting and to write jokes about things that are going on, and in that instance this week, that really helped me, brick by brick. And I'm able to kind of go, "Okay, yeah, cool. I can, I can get stuff from that." You know, I'm, I'm very much a, from a philosophical point of view or a therapy point of view, I need pointers and tips to make me better. I'm not a enjoy every sandwich kind of a guy, 'cause it's a fucking sandwich.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett56:56

        Mmm.

    17. RHRussell Howard56:56

        Like, I, do you know what I mean? Like, be in the sandwich, just in, it's like, "Ah, it's just a fucking sandwich." Like, I'd, I'd, I need, I'm very much kind of Eastern philosophy of like, "Okay, how do we, how do we make ourselves better?" I love the idea of kind of sort of self-improvement and being the best you. Um, so I find quotes help that. You know?

    18. SBSteven Bartlett57:18

        Mm-hmm.

    19. RHRussell Howard57:18

        And even talking to somebody, like, that I am, like a bit of an expert, you s- he, he'll say something or you'll say something and you kind of unravel a thing. And e- even like what we're doing now, sort of having a chat about the process, and I've af- m- um, my friend, uh, James Bay, uh, the singer, we, particularly during the, during, during COVID, we spoke a lot about, uh, everything and about creativity, and talking to like-minded individuals about the pursuit of a joke or a g- or a song or a, uh, any kind of piece of art, I find really, really interesting. I love it. I'm so interested in the way that musicians create. I'm so envious, 'cause they sit in a cool room or they go to like this studio and they kind of write and they jam and they riff and they create a thing, and then they perform it. Whereas, the musicians I know are very envious of the way that comedians create, which is you go in front of a crowd and you create with, not for, you know.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett58:20

        Mmm.

    21. RHRussell Howard58:20

        It, it would be like the comparison of like Chris Martin going in front of a crowd in Chiswick and going, "It was all blue? Nope. Okay. Uh, it was all green? Nope. It was all yellow? Yellow, right, I'll do yellow tomorrow." And it sort of is that kind of process. So talking to different creatives or anyone who is sort of an expert in managing yourself is something that I find really comforting. Or, or, you know, like, i- even, I've really gotten to this guy, Andrew Huberman now, he's like a professor from Stanford, and there's all these kind of e- neurolinguistic things you can do to help yourself, you know, like cold showers and all this, and Wim Hof breathing, and all this kind of stuff.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett59:04

        Does that stuff work for you?

    23. RHRussell Howard59:06

        Uh, maybe it's psychosomatic, but yeah, it feels like it does. Do you know what I mean? You feel like you've done your ... it's like going to the gym, it just feels like medicine for you, doesn't it? You always feel like no, no one enjoys going to the gym. Uh, you know, I imagine Arnold Schwarzenegger did. But most people are just like, "Right, do it," and it feels like a nice little tick for your soul. And it just feels like therapy is almost, well, it's exactly that, isn't it? It's, it's a workout for your brain. Or having a conversation like this is a really nice workout for your brain, where we're both in kind of like a f- strange dreamlike state where we're-

    24. SBSteven Bartlett59:39

        Mmm.

    25. RHRussell Howard59:39

        ... kind of having a deep conversation, um, we're kind of riffing, but somehow without planning any of this, we're getting to a deeper ...

    26. SBSteven Bartlett59:48

        Mmm.

    27. RHRussell Howard59:49

        ... place. And yet it's very strange 'cause there's people driving listening to us right now.

    28. SBSteven Bartlett59:55

        (laughs)

    29. RHRussell Howard59:55

        Which is very weird, hey?

    30. SBSteven Bartlett59:56

        It's weird, isn't it?
13. 1:03:07 – 1:06:00

    Your pre show rituals

    1. RHRussell Howard1:03:07

       you d- I'm literally in an alley that stinks of piss, um, looking at notes. So, so it's, it's always looking at notes, thinking what you're gonna do, sort of trying to be calm to listen to that inner voice (clears throat) that says, "Hey, you could also do this." And that kind of weird, kind of, um, funny that just appears from nowhere. That's always the best way of starting a gig. Um, and that's it really. But there isn't really a psyching up process. I'll, I'll, like, watch, if I'm doing a big show, I'll watch my friend who's, who's supporting me, (inhales deeply) um, see what, get, sneak in the back of the theater or the arena and get a feel for them. And, um, and then just go for it.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:50

       Why keepy-ups? Is that just a tr- just tradition, or is it, like, a-

    3. RHRussell Howard1:03:54

       Do you know, it's just, it's sort of if you're... There's j- yeah, there's, maybe it's just that weird thing of like, "Right, I've done 10, I can..." You know. And then if you don't do 10 the first time, and it falls, you gotta do 20, and if it falls, 30. So, do you know what I mean? So you, you have to do it, and then it becomes this weird, uh, like, little thing. You just don't want that in the back of your head. You can't do a big gig going, "Shit, man, I only did 24 keepy-ups," um-

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:19

       So it is sup- superstition, in a way.

    5. RHRussell Howard1:04:21

       Yeah. Like, yeah, and I've j- just... And I kind of like, I spend a lot of time with my tour manager, Kumar, the mighty Kumar Kamalagaran, um, and, um, just chatting about stuff, and just being kind of loose, and sort of... Yeah, just k- sort of getting in the zone of being silly, and, and just talking about any old bollocks to try and sort of get things going or, you know. It's like if my brother comes on tour with me, that's always fun, because it's kind of, there'll, there'll just be a bit of, a bit of nothing kind of happening, and, like, yeah. So I like sort of just hanging out and chatting, talking bollocks, and, um, sort of loosening yourself up, really. That's kind of what I do beforehand.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:05

       This is a very, um... I don't know why this question came into my head, but, mm, it tends to be the kind of things I ask on this podcast. What was the lowest moment of your life?

    7. RHRussell Howard1:05:13

       What was the lowest moment of my life? I think when my, my, when my grandad died, that was, like, I was, it was, yeah, it was awful. And I was incredibly lucky, because I... How old was I? I always think I was 36 when Grandad died, and, um, he... I'd never had anyone in my family, um... Well, my cousin Shane had died when I was 18, and, um, but I'd never been to a funeral, so it was Shane and, and Grandad. So there'd been this huge gap where nobody died, and, um, you know, this sort of beautiful family that I belonged to, they were all kind of there. And my grandad was this sort of, like, unbelievably special

14. 1:06:00 – 1:16:48

    The lowest moment of your life

    1. RHRussell Howard1:06:00

       kind of man. He was four foot nine (laughs) , and, um, just funny and warm, and j- just, like, a quintessential grandad. But, like, he, Gr- he got me into football, so I used to watch football with Grandad and watch Match of the Day, and he'd make me and Daniel toast, you know, that thick white bread, and he'd kind of, like, make us some Grandad toast. And he was just a brilliant, brilliant soul that just was s- such a big part of my life, that he... And they used to come and see us quite a lot, and whenever he was there, I don't know, you, he was, you were just bathed in his love. Like, him and, him and my nan just adored me, and I adored them, and it was... They used to have a poster of m- of me on their, uh, on their wall, um, and they used to (laughs) ... And Nan used to keep all, (laughs) all the, all the reviews I'd get, so then she'd put them up. Like, and it was just a lovely thing, it was some really, some lovely reviews, and some shitty ones too, and it was just like, "Nan, why are you... Don't take that." (laughs) "What're you talking about?"

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:07

       (laughs)

    3. RHRussell Howard1:07:08

       But, but they, and they used to watch me on TV, and I come from a, a family where it's inconceivable that a-... that I could be on TV from, from the family that I come from. It's, it's w- you know, it's like going to the moon. But because Nan and Granddaddy said, "We'd watch you on the TV. Mind you, we'd, we'd watch it with the volume down because you just swear."

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:30

       (laughs)

    5. RHRussell Howard1:07:30

       So they would watch me when I was doing Good News or I was on Mock the Week with the volume down. They saw wrestling on the box and just sort of see me kind of like that.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:41

       (laughs)

    7. RHRussell Howard1:07:41

       And ... But they were so ... Through every part of my life, I, I felt utter love from my nan and my grandad, and they were around forever. And, and it's, it's that thing where, I don't know, for whatever reason, he was like this sage, and my ... There's a beautiful photo of my cousin Shane who, who, who died when he was, he was 18, and he was on a scrambler motorbike. And our grandad when we were about eight, he used to look at that and just go, "There you go. That is the bravest bloody boy you've ever seen in your life." And it was like ... sort of a really interesting, um, story, 'cause he, he had cancer, and he died of cancer. And he, he went on this sort of scrambler, and he did this race, and he was ... He completed it even though he- he was really not well at all. And, and our grandad told that with such pride, and it was this beautiful story. And that's what ... And Grandad ... And you knew Grandad told similar stories, obviously not as beautiful as that, about all of us. And, and, um, yeah, when he died, it was just this sledgehammer to your heart where you just go, "Jesus, one of the, one of the, one of the good souls isn't here anymore." And yet this is the, the fascination of life. I was in Mexico when it happened, and my mom rang me up and said Grandad's dead. I was sort of like ... Just low. (laughs) And then, um, literally seconds later, there was a ... There was a Mexican man just going ... And it was just like, "Fuck me, the universe is funny, man."

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:09:31

       Mm-hmm.

    9. RHRussell Howard1:09:31

       So it was like utter sadness and then somebody ... (laughs) And it was, um ... Yeah. It was just this weird like moment where you're like going, "Fucking really? Really?" (laughs) Um, so yeah, that was the- that was definitely an unbelievably low moment, and yet weirdly became ... At his funeral, this beautiful moment where you were, like I said at the beginning, where you feel privileged to belong to the blood you belong to, you know. I've never done, "Who do you think you are?" I know who I am. I'm, you know ... I know where I come from, and I know my people, and I feel proud to belong to those people. Um, and the funeral of my grandad was just this reminder of the excellence of my family and how proud, and how much we all love each other. So from that deep sadness came this reflection of my grandad, and you realize that everyone in this room were there because of his brilliance. So it was this kind of weirdly bittersweet moment, you know?

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:40

        Mm-hmm.

    11. RHRussell Howard1:10:40

        And my cousin Lou- L- Um, my cousin Stuart wore a leather jacket and looked like fucking Lovejoy.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:46

        (laughs)

    13. RHRussell Howard1:10:46

        And nobody understood. And everyone's like, "Why are you wearing a leather jacket?" "Oh, well, you know, I didn't have a suit." And we were carrying Grandad in a coffin, and Daniel was like, "Nice jacket, Stu," and our fucking shoulders start going.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:57

        (laughs)

    15. RHRussell Howard1:10:57

        Because it's like, you know, like, "Oh, mate," and everyone's like, "Are they gonna laugh?" And we're like, "Fucking hold it together. Hold it."

    16. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:04

        (laughs)

    17. RHRussell Howard1:11:04

        And then, um, yeah, six weeks later my nan died, that, and, uh, it was horrific.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:08

        Six weeks later?

    19. RHRussell Howard1:11:09

        Yeah, six weeks later, and then we went to the, um, went to the funeral again, and Stuart rocked up with that same leather jacket, and you're like, "Fuck me, man." And you could see everybody (laughs) just looking down going-

    20. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:19

        (laughs)

    21. RHRussell Howard1:11:19

        ... "Don't laugh. Why's he wearing this fucking leather ... " He literally rocked up like Hasselhoff. You're like, "Put a suit on." But it was weirdly funny, and you could hear everyone going, "Fuck, he's wearing a fucking leather jacket," You know, I'm going, "Jesus Christ, what's fucking wrong with him, man?" (laughs)

    22. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:32

        (laughs)

    23. RHRussell Howard1:11:32

        Um, like it was all flapping and that. Um, but, and I, I had to do the eulogy for my grandad as well, and that is something I put deep, deep, deep, deep time into to make it. And, uh, you know, and obviously you can't get it right. You can't express what he meant to you. But, um, yeah, that was the- that was a long answer to the lowest moment, but yeah.

    24. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:57

        They, they say, um, people can pass away from heartbreak.

    25. RHRussell Howard1:12:00

        Yeah.

    26. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:01

        Is ... For, for your grandmother to die six weeks following-

    27. RHRussell Howard1:12:05

        Yeah. I think, yeah, I think they were, they were, you know, joined at the hip. Yeah, they used to just kind of ... Yeah. May- may- yeah, maybe it was that. It was just kind of ... Yeah. It was just ... But also they were such constants, and I just wasn't ... I'd never really been exposed to death. And it was just this kind of like ... To- f- for it to arrive quite late in your life, it was just a real like, "Whoa!"

    28. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:27

        Mm-hmm.

    29. RHRussell Howard1:12:27

        "Yeah!" And then you loo- then, and then you've suddenly lost your nan and your grandad, who had kind of ... Like we used- we got like ... My nana particularly is just such a lovely ... She's got proper sort of blue-gray, owl-y eyes, you know. And she's always like tucking her sort of shirt down, and she'd just come in and just tell you little st- she goes ... The just weird little shit. So I remember doing my dissertation, she was staying around her house, and she said, "What are you doing?" I said, "Oh, I'm doing a, a, um, I'm doing my dissertation, Nan." She went, "What about?" I said, "It's about whether it's right or wrong to advertise to children." And, uh, my nan went, "It's not." (laughs)

    30. SBSteven Bartlett1:13:04

        (laughs)

Episode duration: 1:44:48