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The Diary of a CEOThe Diary of a CEO

Scooter Braun on building a persona to silence inner haters

How insecurity, not vision, built the Scooter persona over Scott; therapy and shutting out the noise turned success into hard-won self-worth.

Steven BartletthostScooter Braunguest
Jun 9, 20251h 54mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 2:30

    Intro

    1. SB

      There's parts of your life where there's these big question marks that I'm hoping you can answer for me.

    2. SB

      Okay.

    3. SB

      But I want the full truth.

    4. SB

      Now I'm nervous.

    5. NA

      Scooter Braun is the man behind some of the biggest stars in the music industry.

    6. SB

      And he built one of the most disruptive entertainment empires on the planet. I've never really said this out loud until right now. At this age, I feel a lot of guilt, because I worked with so many young artists, and we were all kids moving so fast, and we all wanted to succeed so bad. And it wasn't till I was 40 years old doing some intense therapy that I realized, I was so driven by the fear that I wouldn't be enough. So let's go back. As a kid growing up, I wanted to prove that I could be more than the privilege I was born with, and I created this character Scooter, because I didn't think Scott could achieve these things. That mask made me absolutely relentless, faking it till I make it. Like I had no right convincing Justin and his mom to be on the first plane they had ever been on and meet me.

    7. SB

      So what were they betting on?

    8. SB

      My ignorance. But it was also realizing that so much of insecurity drives us and makes us great. Like now that I'm here, I can't fail because then everyone will see that I shouldn't be here. So let's go for it. And then we had such extreme success. The whole world thought I was crushing it. But I had built this mask so big, I didn't realize how far away I'd gotten from Scott. So here I am, at the top of my game, I wanted to kill myself. I went to a very dark place, and I broke down crying, because I spent so much time trying to impress people who didn't love me instead of realizing how many people already did. And I was so desperate to do the thing I had never done before.

    9. SB

      What was that? This has always blown my mind a little bit. 53% of you that listen to this show regularly haven't yet subscribed to the show. So could I ask you for a favor before we start? If you like the show and you like what we do here and you wanna support us, the free simple way that you can do just that is by hitting the subscribe button. And my commitment to you is, if you do that, then I'll do everything in my power, me and my team, to make sure that this show is better for you every single week. We'll listen to your feedback, we'll find the guests that you want me to speak to, and we'll continue to do what we do. Thank you so much. Scooter, when I look at your life and I look at the things you've achieved, so much of it makes sense, but then there's this, these other parts of your life where there's these big question marks that I'm hoping you can answer for me. And maybe the earliest question mark

  2. 2:30 – 7:46

    What Drives You?

    1. SB

      that remains in my head is, what it is that drives you? Because from an exceedingly young age, there was this dog in you. There was something, uh, uh, for me, when I was going through the research, it looked like a chip on your shoulder or something to prove to someone, and so that's really where I wanted to start. I want to understand your earliest context, so I can understand the cauldron that Scooter was shaped in, and, um, the way that that made the boy turn to a man. Big question, but that's the, um-

    2. SB

      Starter? Right out the gate.

    3. SB

      ... the burning question in my head.

    4. SB

      You know, it's funny, because you started by asking, "Scooter, what drives you?" And it took me a long time to figure out as an adult that it was actually Scott, my real name, that was the real driver, and I, I really created this guy Scooter when I was an adult, because I didn't think Scott could achieve these things. So I almost, like, created a mask, and it wasn't till I was 40 years old doing some intense therapy that I fell in love with my name again and realized the answer to your question, which is, part of it was shame, of why with my family's background am I getting all this privilege. My father's a refugee from Hungary. My mother, her dad died when she was 11, you know, and her mother struggled to, to raise them with family help in the Catskill Mountains. My grandparents were Holocaust survivors. And here I am, first generation born in America, and I wanted to prove that I could be more than the privilege I was born with. And I, so I had that chip on my shoulder. I wanted to prove my value. I wanted to prove I was worthy of this.

    5. SB

      Who told you you had to?

    6. SB

      No one. I think, you know, as a kid growing up, I read it that way, because, you know, you're hearing the stories of the Holocaust, and my dad every night before he put me and my brother to bed would say, "Hey, boys, you're different. You're special. I hold you to a higher standard." Every night before we went to bed. And we started to really believe him, of like, we need to hold ourselves to this higher standard. We need to do more. The idea of failing, the idea of looking at my parents and, and not achieving, uh... that's what drove me. And, and years ago, I was on a podcast, probably 10 years ago, I was doing a podcast with Complex with this guy Noah.

    7. SB

      I watched it.

    8. SB

      Do you remember the baseball analogy?

    9. SB

      Yes. I literally wrote it down in my notes.

    10. SB

      Well, I will tell it again, but I will tell you on your podcast the difference I hold today.

    11. SB

      Okay.

    12. SB

      They asked me what it takes to be successful, and I made up this analogy with baseball, and I said, "Imagine Cy Young Award winner CC Savathia at the height of his career is in the middle of Yankee Stadium and they invite everyone to come hit a home run, and they say, 'You get as many at-bats as you want, and whoever hits the home run wins like the, you know, billion dollars, million dollars,' whatever it is." And you can imagine everyone flies in from all around the world. People are f- filling in New York City. The line is crazy. And I said, "The person who's successful is not only the person who finally gets up to the plate and swings and misses, but stays at the plate," and now people are saying, "Are you kidding me? There's lines of millions of people waiting for their turn and you're gonna stay there? You're gonna stay there and swing again?" And they swing again, and then everyone's booing, and they swing again, and they literally keep swinging as everyone is booing them and booing them and booing them for hours. "They're the most selfish person in the world. You don't deserve to be here. Get off that plate. This is not..." And then they finally hit that homer and everyone cheers, 'cause oh my God, they did it. And I said that years ago, and it wasn't till recently that I realized...There's one difference in the story. I never understood who the crowd was. I always thought the crowd was being able to shut out the outside noise. I always thought the crowd was the naysayers and all the people who in your life who would tell you you're never gonna achieve anything, and that's part of it. But the crowd, all those people waiting in line, is actually you. That's what I never realized till now, that that's the difference. I always thought, when people asked me "What drove you?" I thought it was all the outside noise. I thought it was the fear of failure, the fear of letting them down, all these different things. And it wasn't till recently, when I hit some hardships as an adult and really had to look inward, that I realized, everyone's got the same crowd, and everyone has their own issues, and everyone has their own stuff. And what actually brings you to success and self-worth and happiness is actually understanding how to stand at that plate and shut out the noise that's here. Not the millions of people around. The millions of people who are in your head, screaming at you. Telling you you're not enough. The deep, deep lie, from the most confident people that have it. So I'm glad I get to finally publicly say the difference, 'cause I've had it wrong all these years.

    13. SB

      And in that analogy, you talk about how most people come up to the plate, they swing once-

    14. SB

      They leave.

    15. SB

      ... they hear the boo, they leave, they go back to their sofa or wherever they're coming from. Some peop-

    16. SB

      Or they, or they swing t-two, three times, everyone's telling them they're selfish and they get, you know, oh my God. And they're embarrassed and they leave.

    17. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    18. SB

      It takes a lot for someone to stand there in the middle of the noise, shut out the noise, and understand, "The opportunity was given to me. I deserve this. I'm gonna keep swinging."

    19. SB

      Going back to your early context, Scott?

    20. SB

      Yeah.

  3. 7:46 – 9:40

    Your Dad

    1. SB

      (laughs)

    2. SB

      Your dad, Ervin?

    3. SB

      Yeah.

    4. SB

      He sounds like quite a tough guy.

    5. SB

      (laughs) Yeah.

    6. SB

      I was reading about some of the things he was saying to you when you were a kid, and I was like, "Dad? Jesus." Like when he called you a liar-

    7. SB

      Yeah.

    8. SB

      ... that day, and told you about living with integrity, et cetera.

    9. SB

      My dad grew up tough, and it was almost like, when you're being raised by two people who lived through what they lived through, they were raising him for a world that took everything away from them. They were so loving, but they still raised him that way, and then he was so loving, but he still raised us really tough. And I was the first-born son, so I'm the oldest of all our ki- all the kids, so he was very tough on me. You're referencing this time when I was up to probably 14, and he, uh, he caught me in, like, a white lie, and usually, he would punish me, and his punishments could be severe. But this time, he just said, "Hey, come here, I want to talk to you. It's not gonna be a punishment this time. I just want you to know, you got the gift for gab. You could talk your way out of anything, and in life, I used to tell you if you lie, you're not gonna be successful. I want to tell you the truth. You're so good at it, you might be successful, but you're gonna be a liar. And I'll know you're a liar, and you'll know you're a liar. So do with that what you want." And I was so beaten down and ashamed, 'cause it wasn't like raining down fists on me. It was just like the guy I admired so much called me a liar, and I walked away, I was messed up, and I went back to him and I said, "Dad, I want you to know, I'm not gonna lie. I'm gonna be a man of integrity. I'm, uh, yeah, I could do that, but I understand this opportunity, what you're saying." And he just looked at me and said, "Okay, good," (laughs) and he walked away. And it was one of the best lessons ever, you know? 'Cause he was right. Like, you, you can win certain ways, but you're gonna know. How do you, how do you wanna win? You wanna do it the right way. And, um, and that, that tough love, I'm appreciative

  4. 9:40 – 12:07

    Your First Business

    1. SB

      of it.

    2. SB

      You go to college?

    3. SB

      I went to college.

    4. SB

      You went to college. Um, you started a business at college doing events.

    5. SB

      Yeah, well, I, I started selling fake IDs. That's what I started doing.

    6. SB

      First, yeah. Mm-hmm.

    7. SB

      Yeah, I sold fake IDs 'cause my friend sold fake IDs, and I thought he had a bad business plan, so I was like, "I'll market them, you make them." (laughs)

    8. SB

      (laughs)

    9. SB

      Um, and, and quickly, uh, he broke my golden rule of not keeping in touch with people we sold to, so I stopped immediately, 'cause I didn't want to get caught. And, um, I walked by a nightclub and said, "How much would you give me if I brought people here the next week?" And that was the beginning of my Atlanta party promotion days.

    10. SB

      Why did that succeed? What is it about you, as you look back in hindsight, your skillset, your ability, that made your party promotion days so successful, which eventually sort of parlayed into music, but...

    11. SB

      A combination of things. I think, one, uh, I wasn't a threat to the freshman girls. I had a high school sweetheart at the time.

    12. SB

      (laughs)

    13. SB

      I was very committed to her. I was a decently cute kid and I could dance.

    14. SB

      Okay. (laughs)

    15. SB

      So I was a good person to go out with and have fun, so, uh, that was one thing. Number two, I was playing sports, so I had a lot of friends in different, you know, teams and different arenas. And three, I was in the right place at the right time. You know, I, uh, that first party I threw was successful, and at that first party, I was approached by a guy named Jason Weaver. He's an actor, and he was in this old Michael Jackson movie I used to watch as a kid where he played young Michael. And he came in and he said, "This is crazy." 'Cause Atlanta at that time was very segregated in the club scene. So it was like, if you were Black, you went to a party that, you know, a club that played hip hop, and if you were white, you went to a club, they played techno.

    16. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    17. SB

      But I didn't grow up in the South, and I wanted to listen to hip hop and rock and roll. And we played that, and when Jason came in, he was so fascinated to see a mixed crowd listening to hip hop that he was like, "You wanna see how the other half lives." And Jason brought me to a club called Velvet Room on Tuesday nights in Atlanta, Georgia. It was ran by a guy named Alex Gittoan. Alex was so fascinated to see me in the line, he said, you know, "Let this kid in here." And Alex taught me how to promote. He taught me what the value of the door actually was, what I should be getting from the bar, and I would start moving my parties, and I would spend all my money that I made on Thursday nights at the college party on Alex's Tuesday night meeting people, meeting rappers, meeting singers, meeting different people, faking it till I make it, and getting people to come back and forth, uh, between my parties, and that's how I started. That's how I met Jermaine. That's how I met Luda. That's, we all kind of came up together.

  5. 12:07 – 14:16

    You’re Very Good at Forming Relationships

    1. SB

    2. SB

      Relationships-Why, why did he give you a foot up? So many people are, are early in their careers and they're having these chance encounters, but those, those aren't converting into a relationship. And when I look at your life, there's people you meet along the way who end up being really, really pivotal. And it appears to me as an objective observer that you have an ability to form good relationships, loyal, lasting relationships with people.

    3. SB

      One, I think it's important to pay people respect. You know, I came from a household where you respect your elders. And when I was coming up, I was 19, so I was very respectful of the people that were giving me an opportunity, and I never forgot who helped me along the way. I think the other thing that was a big part of my philosophy was let your work be the reason they wanna meet you. I didn't want to be that kid who was going, "Hey, give me an opportunity." And by the way, sometimes that works, but I wanted them to see what I was doing and then say, "Come over here." I didn't approach Jermaine Dupri to work at So So Def. Jermaine heard about me and my parties and he met me, and he said, "You have more potential than parties. Why don't you come work for me?" I didn't approach, you know, Ludacris who was coming up as a rapper and say, "Let me do that." I didn't... A, a lot of people in my life, I, I never really approached them. And then even as my life changed and I got older, I made a lot of relationships, and I have a lot of relationships now that I've never done business with. And people will go, "Well, you have that re- why can't, why don't you?" And it was because I never wanted anyone to feel... Probably my insecurity is I never wanted anyone to feel like I needed them. I never wanted to feel like a user, or it was like my own insecurities of how they might see me.

    4. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    5. SB

      But I think on top of that, I just... It was that same old thing of never wanting to be in a position where you're begging somebody for something.

    6. SB

      I called Jermaine-

    7. SB

      (laughs)

    8. SB

      ... and we s- spoke to him, and I listened to the recording again just before you arrived. But what Jermaine said in that voice recording is also pretty similar to what your dad said, which is they both saw something in you. You are this young kid who doesn't have a extensive track record of decades of work, but they're all betting on you in some way.

  6. 14:16 – 15:50

    What Did Everyone See in You at an Early Age?

    1. SB

      As you look back on your life, w- what were they betting on? 'Cause they all seemed pretty sure that you had something.

    2. SB

      My ignorance. (laughs)

    3. SB

      Ignorance. (laughs)

    4. SB

      I think, I think, uh, I, no one told me I shouldn't be there. (laughs)

    5. SB

      (laughs) Yeah. And he offered you a job for working-

    6. SB

      He did.

    7. SB

      ... at his company, which meant you had to drop out of y- college.

    8. SB

      I didn't have to drop out of college. I did, because, um, I went to work for Jermaine and now I'm traveling all the time. I'm still throwing parties. You know, we're gearing up for Usher's album. We're doing this, we're doing that. I'm working with the YoungBloods, Anthony Hamilton, like, it's w- and I'm 19, 20 years old. And my grade point average went from a three point something to a one point something.

    9. SB

      (laughs)

    10. SB

      And they brought me in on academic probation and they said, um, you know, "What's going on with you? Is there a drug problem? Are you being abused?" (laughs) And I said, "No, no, no, no. I'm an entrepreneur. I'm building this. I wanna build a record label. I'm working for Jermaine Dupri, uh..." You know, and this guy's looking at me like I'm insane. And, you know, he is, this dean looks at me at Emory and he says, uh, "Do you know the r- story of Robert Woodruff?" And I said, "You know Robert Woodruff?" He goes, "Yeah, the founder of Coca-Cola, the Woodruff Center, the largest endowment at Emory." And he tells me this amazing story of this entrepreneur who created Coca-Cola, who is the largest endowment at our university, and I'm so hyped. I'm like, "This guy gets me. He gets me. He's gonna help me. I'm gonna be at this school." And just when my hopes are really high, he looks at me and he goes, "You know what we're gonna do, right? 'Cause we're gonna stop all the nonsense. You're gonna focus on school. You're gonna get a degree because the chance of you being like Robert Woodruff without

  7. 15:50 – 18:29

    People Trying to Stop Your Dreams

    1. SB

      an Emory degree is like one in a billion." And the moment he said it, that's when I dropped out of school.

    2. SB

      What did your father say?

    3. SB

      Before you ask me about my father, I wanna ask you a question.

    4. SB

      Okay.

    5. SB

      You made a face and you paused.

    6. SB

      Yeah.

    7. SB

      Because you have your own story of something happening like this.

    8. SB

      I just have a, a bi- I just have a real hate for dream busters.

    9. SB

      Yeah, every great story we have of success, people tell of that pivotal moment-

    10. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    11. SB

      ... whether it be this dean or Michael Jordan being cut by his coach, it was the, the varsity coach when he was younger.

    12. SB

      Yeah.

    13. SB

      We all talk about the dream buster as a catalyst to our success.

    14. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    15. SB

      And, you know, in life, I've, I kind of feel like everything, even, you know, it's like I have this tattoo, amor fati, you know, from Marcus Aurelius. It's like a concept, love of one's fate in Latin. And it's this concept that you have to love the sorrow as much as you love the joy. You have to love the pain as much as you love the success. You know, it's-

    16. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    17. SB

      If it wasn't for that dean, I wouldn't have had that chip on my shoulder in that moment. I would just push you on the fact that, like, you hate these dream busters, but I am so grateful for them.

    18. SB

      I'm, I'm grateful for the dream busters, however, and I, this is actually something I was talking to my friends about in our group chat this morning, is it okay in your view to be driven by haters? It, it's so funny because-

    19. SB

      If you're only driven by haters, no.

    20. SB

      (laughs)

    21. SB

      But I think that everything plays its role at the time. Like, um, Robert Greene.

    22. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    23. SB

      He talks about this idea of embracing your dark side.

    24. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    25. SB

      And I think that there's truth in that. Like, you know, if, if you continue to fight something that's naturally inside of you, you're gonna really struggle with it. If you can accept that's part of you, you can use it as fuel and you can move right through it. So yes, there are things that drive me. My curiosity is a big driver for, for where I go. My children now are a big driver for where I go and how I live my life. The people I love, the joy that I find, the introspective voice that now I can go to when I'm meditating or, you know, working, you know, on myself. But doubt from someone who dislikes me or doubt from a hater, I can pretend like I'm zen as much as I want, but if I'm being really honest with myself, sometimes that's the fuel that I need. So I think if it's, if it's solely one thing, it's not healthy.

    26. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    27. SB

      But I think if you can admit...... you get fuel and different influences from different places, and don't try and be ashamed of the one that doesn't fit in your narrative of how evolved you are-

    28. SB

      Yeah.

    29. SB

      ... you know, then it's okay.

    30. SB

      You established SB Projects, I believe, after leaving Jermaine when you were 24, 25 years old?

  8. 18:29 – 21:21

    Signing Your First Acts

    1. SB

    2. SB

      And I read that you, kind of, had, had this plan to sign three different types of acts.

    3. SB

      Yeah.

    4. SB

      First one, Asher Roth, who's a very-

    5. SB

      I-

    6. SB

      ... famous rap ̶i̶n̶a̶t̶é-

    7. SB

      Yeah. I wanted to sign three types of acts, and Asher fit them all for one, Justin for the other, and the other one I never found.

    8. SB

      So Asher, for people that don't know, is a very successful rapper. Um, what was the mold you were trying to fit?

    9. SB

      Eminem was a very big rapper. He's one of the biggest rappers of all time. And I was in college, and I'm watching all, like, these, at the time, these frat guys, but they loved hip hop, and I don't think they had anyone who spoke to their life. So I wanted a kid who could speak to college life, who had the skills to be credible within the world of hip hop.

    10. SB

      Why did you think you could find talent? What... D- Did you believe-

    11. SB

      Ignorance.

    12. SB

      Ignorance. Okay.

    13. SB

      I'm telling you, every aspect of my life... If we talked about every little thing that I've been in, you said earlier I've been in all these different things, and probably your listeners have no idea who the hell I am, so they're like, "What is he talking about?" But every time I put myself in that next arena, it's this, "Why not me?" I had no right contacting Asher on Myspace. I mean, at that point, I could say, okay, I came from So So Def. I was the youngest vice president music, because of Jermaine. When I was at So So Def, I was 20 years old. So I had the right, you know, some credibility other people didn't have. I definitely could do that. But to tell him to drop out of college and move down to Atlanta, Georgia for... Be the first artist in my record label, to, you know, find Justin in Canada and convince his mom and him to be on the first plane they'd ever been on to come down to Atlanta and meet me, I mean, it, it was... I was 25 years old, 24 years old. Like, these are... I was insane (laughs) . Like, you know-

    14. SB

      It's so interesting when we talk about belief, we, we ask if, you know, "Scooter, did you have belief?" But in your case you had the lack of limiting beliefs, which shows up the same as having belief.

    15. SB

      Yeah. I-

    16. SB

      There was just, like, nothing-

    17. SB

      It wasn't even... Because I was so driven by also the fear that I wouldn't be enough, that back then I would have lied. I would have said, "Oh, I had such a deep belief in, in m- and conviction that I could do it." It was partially that, but it was also, "Why not me?" And "No one told me I can't be here," and also, "Now that I'm here, I can't fail because then everyone will see that I shouldn't be here." And so it was this, this fear, excitement, fear, excitement, conviction. That's why I always tell people when I meet them as young people, I'm like, "You don't have kids. You can starve a little bit. Your parents want you to go the easiest route because they don't want to see you suffer, but now is the time when you should be suffering."

    18. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    19. SB

      "If you want to go for it, now is the time when you don't have anyone to support where you can really, really go for it, because later on in life you got to think about other people." And back then, 19 years old to 24, "I'm... Let's go for it."

  9. 21:21 – 24:36

    Discovering Justin Bieber

    1. SB

    2. SB

      And the second artist that you signed was called Justin Bieber. Who's Justin Bie... (laughs) Justin Bieber?

    3. SB

      (laughs)

    4. SB

      You were 26 years old when you came across Justin?

    5. SB

      25.

    6. SB

      25. And he was 12, 13?

    7. SB

      13.

    8. SB

      Damn. You discovered Justin by watching a So Sick video by Neo?

    9. SB

      Yeah. I will... I saw a bunch of videos from his church his mom had posted, and the one that moved me the most was So Sick by Neo.

    10. NA

      Changed my answering machine now that I'm alone. 'Cause right now it says that we can't come to the phone. And I know it makes no sense 'cause you walked out the door. It's the only way I hear your voice anymore.

    11. SB

      You must have been asked this a gazillion times, but the, the actions you then took based on seeing a kid on, on a video are bizarre (laughs) .

    12. SB

      (laughs) . Yeah.

    13. SB

      They are bizarre.

    14. SB

      Yeah. I, like, Googled, uh, the background of, of the church to look up the businesses and then called the regions of Canada school boards to figure out where he was, because his mom had a different name than him, because her name was Mallette, his was Bieber. So I went a little crazy to find him within 24 hours. Once I saw him, I kind of knew.

    15. SB

      In person or...

    16. SB

      No, I knew when I saw online. I was like, "This is the kid I've been looking for." And I, I felt the same way about Asher. I mean, I relentlessly kind of pursued both of them. I had a clear vision to, like, what I could do and what he was capable of. And it was funny because no one believed me (laughs) . I mean, even after we met and we did the deal and we started working together, literally no one believed me. And YouTube was not a big thing back then, so when I took him from 60,000 views and we took him to, like, 60 million, now he's, like, one of the biggest YouTubers in the world, and everyone's like, "Yeah, you YouTubers don't turn into musicians though."

    17. SB

      What were the first principles that you saw in him? Like, what were the s-... 'Cause I... When I think about having those moments where my intuition just says yes to something-

    18. SB

      Tone.

    19. SB

      Okay.

    20. SB

      Charisma. Um, it was like... He had incredible tone, and he had soul, and he had charisma. He was doing... Like, there was one where there was an instrumental and he was, like, jumping around and... I just believed in him instantly. And then when I met him, he had even more charisma. He was funny, and I was like, "All right, this kid, let's go." And he was an athlete, so he was competitive. He was a very special, special talent and a very unique individual, and, uh, those were special times.

    21. SB

      And you flew in to meet him and his mother?

    22. SB

      No, they flew to me.

    23. SB

      Oh, okay.

    24. SB

      I talked to her for, like, an hour and a half that night, and first plane ride they ever went on. And I remember he was so excited that there was a fridge inside his hotel room.

    25. SB

      (laughs) .His mother said, "S- speaking of you, Scooter really believed in Justin from day one. He put everything on the line for us."

    26. SB

      And, and they put it on the line for me too. You know, they believed in a 25-year-old kid and, uh, we were able to achieve some amazing things. And I'm

  10. 24:36 – 26:19

    What’s Your Relationship With Justin Bieber Now?

    1. SB

      very proud of what we achieved and always rooting for him.

    2. SB

      How is your relationship with Justin now?

    3. SB

      Um, not the same that it was. I think, you know, these things go, ebb and flows. I think there comes a point where I understand he probably wants to go on and, and show that he can do it. I mean, we, we worked together for so long and we had such extreme success, and I think you get to a point as a, as a man where you wanna show the world you can do it on your own. And, uh, I completely respect that, and I think at this point that's what he's doing, and myself and, and everyone from the old team is rooting for him. But I stopped managing two and a half years ago, and now I'm, I'm a cheerleader from the side, and, you know, I, I want everyone that I worked with to do well. I think sometimes when you walk away from management, I've heard managers, which I never understood, they'd be like deep down when behind closed doors, they don't wanna see them do as well without them. It's almost like, you know, them succeeding is, is tarnishing your legacy.

    4. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    5. SB

      E- every artist that I worked with, I believed in them because they were great. And if they continue to be great, I think that's the best testimony to that belief. So to see Justin move forward and succeed, to see Ariana, you know, with what's happened with Wicked in this past year, um, to see Tori Kelly, you know, to see everybody that I've ever had a chance to work with, to see them go on and do great things on their own, it's awesome.

  11. 26:19 – 27:54

    What Do Highly Successful Artists Have in Common?

    1. SB

    2. SB

      Is there anything that these individuals have in common at all? These people that-

    3. SB

      Pain.

    4. SB

      ... pain?

    5. SB

      Yeah. I think it's pain, personally. I think, um, to be able to convey emotions on the level that it touches people around the world, you have to understand emotions. And I think, um, I think great artists, great performers are able to draw from different places, and sometimes it's joy and sometimes it's pain, um, and sometimes it's just a natural God-given gift.

    6. SB

      How important is hard work?

    7. SB

      Oh, it's very important. I think, especially in the beginning. In the beginning, you're stepping into a pool where everyone talented wants to be seen, and you have to work incredibly hard to break out of the noise. So I, and by the way, I don't think that's particular to artists or music or film or TV or anything have to do with entertainment. I think that's every business I've ever been a part of. The first three to five years of any business I've ever built in any arena or worked with anyone who's ever achieved anything great, those first three to five years are the most important.

    8. SB

      Sounds like something I said to my girlfriend (laughs) .

    9. SB

      (laughs) . Um, it sounds like, you know, same thing with relationship maybe about-

    10. SB

      Yeah.

    11. SB

      ... putting the foundation those first three to five years and really be there together. I, I really believe that. I think you put in that time in the beginning and you can break through the noise and set a foundation for everything else.

  12. 27:54 – 33:49

    Why Are There So Many Tragedies Around Famous People?

    1. SB

      When I think about Justin's career, he, he had a, a wobble, um, where he was involved in lots of sort of un- uh, you know, it looked like he was going through a bit of difficulty. And I reflect on one of my friends, Liam Payne, and he was on this podcast and who's sadly passed away now, but he also around the same age was thrown into the public eye at a very young age. He joined One Direction, went on crazy, crazy wild roller coaster ride that is One Direction, and he admitted on the podcast that he struggled. He struggled with addiction, he struggled with lots of pain that he was dealing with, and his story has, is a, an inspiring one ultimately, but also a tragic one in many respects. Why does this happen to so many young artists, childhood stars?

    2. SB

      (sighs) . You know, when you ask me this question, at this age, I feel a lot of guilt. Um, I feel a lot of guilt because I worked with so many young artists, and like I told you, I hadn't taken the time to look at myself or, um, do the therapy myself until I was older. So I didn't understand at 25 years old, at 27 years old, at 30 years old that they each were coming from very unique backgrounds of their own stuff with their own families and their own childhoods and growing up this way, and being seen by the whole world and being judged by the whole world at a very young age, and I think it, it's two things. I think, one, human beings are not made to be worshiped. I think we're made to serve. And I think that when we worship human beings, it changes something within us. It, it messes us up a little bit, because that's not what we're built for, and I think that can be very confusing. And I think being able to transcend the childhood of, you know, people cheering your name and, and everything else at that level, and get to the place where the artists I've worked with are, where they are in healthy relationships and, and with their families and, and still working through stuff, but like having a human experience, I think it's a testament to their strength. So I think that's part of it. I just think the nature of, of being on that stage, you know, that young and people chanting your name, and I didn't realize that till, you know, I got older. The other side of it is I never understood, even without me-... I didn't have that childhood, yet I broke. And what I think also is important is, um, I don't think we can push everything. I think adversity is important. We can't just talk about mental health and say adversity shouldn't exist. But I do think I understand the importance now of, of really putting in the time to make sure mental health is addressed, and that we have an outlet to speak to someone outside of the crew. Um, and there's a lot of things that I learned within myself that I wish I knew back then. I met those One Direction kids when they started. They came to LA, and actually the whole group, 'cause Niall reached out to me. They came to my house to hang out in the backyard when they were first starting, before they really blew up. Like, their first US visit to LA. And I met Liam back then, and I met the excited young kid with the, with the voice. Yet each one of them has had a different experience. Each one of them has had a different story of perseverance and tragedy. Um, and that's the thing. It's like with kids. Like, you just never know what the cocktail is gonna make of life. Um, and I think, I think, you know, that idea of, "We're not made to be worshiped," that can play funny things on the mind.

    3. SB

      The brain isn't even developed until you're t- 25, they tell me, so-

    4. SB

      I don't even know if mine's developed at 43.

    5. SB

      (laughs) Well, I've sat here with so many neuroscientists that have said that to me, and it, it, and also addiction scientists that say the brain is still learning and building its sort of, like, dopamine receptors and stuff.

    6. SB

      Yeah.

    7. SB

      So, Liam was telling me that he, he was up on stage in front of 100 odd thousand people in Dubai. Huge adrenaline rush, huge surge of dopamine. Then they drive him back to his hotel, and he was like, "They lock the door, and it's just me in there with the mini bar. And then the s- the next day, it's the exact same thing. Stage, car, hotel, locked."

    8. SB

      And then without the stage, you're looking for that dopamine hit.

    9. SB

      Yeah.

    10. SB

      No, it's, it's, uh... Like I said, it's... I'm very proud of the job that we did and how much we cared and how much the team cared for all the years that we did it. But it doesn't mean I don't look back and wish that I knew what I know now.

    11. SB

      How would you have been different?

    12. SB

      Hmm. I think I woulda had a therapist on the road for all of us (laughs) . Like (laughs) ... You know, I think that's the biggest difference. I think I woulda slowed down all of us. I think I made, woulda made every single one of us stop and do that hour. You know, because we were all kids, and we were all moving so fast, and we all wanted to succeed so bad, and we all wanted the excitement, and we wanted to make kids' dreams come true and bring them down from the upper decks to put them in the front row, and, you know, to help Justin get that number one and, you know, to help Ariana do this. And, uh, we all wanted it, and we, we were excited, and we were doing something that was so unique, and everyone in the world was so excited for us. You know, "Oh my gosh, you guys are a part of this. This is so cool." I didn't know... I didn't know to go inward for the dopamine hit, and I wish I would've known that and been able to share it back then.

  13. 33:49 – 34:14

    Did It Hurt Parting Ways With Justin Bieber?

    1. SB

    2. SB

      When Justin ultimately said that he wanted to kinda go it alone-

    3. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    4. SB

      ... and do it himself, does that hurt?

    5. SB

      No. Not at that point. I think, uh, I, I was also at that point. You know, at, at that point, it had been a couple years where I knew I wanted to do something else, and I, I wanted to find out who I was. I wanted to experiment with, you know, a different career, and we were both communicating enough with each other. Everyone... The writing was

  14. 34:14 – 37:04

    The Artists You’ve Worked With

    1. SB

      on the wall.

    2. SB

      How many clients-

    3. SB

      Oh, God.

    4. SB

      ... that we would know?

    5. SB

      A lot (laughs) .

    6. SB

      'Cause when I was doing my research, I was like, "No, surely not. Carly Rae Jepsen and then, um, Martin Garrix, uh, K-Kanye?"

    7. SB

      Yeah.

    8. SB

      Can you give me the top 10 (laughs) , off the top of your head, that you worked with?

    9. SB

      Well, yeah, I'd never say a top 10. No, a good manager knows how to do that.

    10. SB

      Okay, yeah (laughs) .

    11. SB

      But I got, I got to work with a lot of incredible artists a long time. I mean, from Zac Brown Band to Black Eyed Peas to Justin to Ariana to, you know, Martin Garrix. We signed, um, while he was at Club Med with his parents. We contacted him 'cause he had the song Animals and we heard it. Um, to Dan + Shay, to, I mean, just to so many over the years. It was pretty incredible to be a part and so close to so many incredible stories. You know, and to see... You know, going to a coffee shop to see Tori Kelly sing, to seeing her walk on a Grammy stage. Uh, it just, I got to see really incredible moments in people's lives, to, you know, Demi telling me, "I wanna sing the national anthem at the Super Bowl," you know, and showing me a tweet that she wrote this years ago, to seeing her actually perform, you know, you know, uh, at the Super Bowl. You know, so it's... It, it's just been a really cool experience, but I got to see it in so many different arenas. And, and you're only there for a flash, right? You have this little tiny small moment here, a little tiny small moment here, but to get to witness so many different rides, it, it's a really cool thing. And I remember as a kid, I heard this great saying, "Don't just read stories. Try to be a part of them. Try to be a story." And I think I've always tried to take that into my life.

    12. SB

      Crazy, crazy wild. I was, I was... There was a second ago when you were talking, and I was just... I stepped into your body for a second, and I ran the highlight reel of your life, just as Justin's-

    13. SB

      (laughs)

    14. SB

      ... um, sort of manager. I was thinking, "God, like, the places you must have been and the things you must have seen," just as his manager, let alone working with all of these other great artists. It's not just a lifetime of experience. It's multiple lifetimes of fortune to get to even see those things.

    15. SB

      I met a guy years ago, and, um...I'll name drop here. So, I got invited to meet Charlie Munger.

    16. SB

      Oh, yeah. The investor? Yeah.

    17. SB

      And everyone was asking him questions about business. And I asked him a question about life. And afterwards, his guy contacts me, he goes, "Charlie liked your question, he wants you to meet this other guy that he really likes, who's a brilliant businessman." And I meet this other gentleman, and he tells me, he's a statistician by trade, and the reason he's excited to meet me is 'cause people in my world who are part of so many different stories live in dog years.

    18. SB

      (laughs)

    19. SB

      (laughs) 'Cause they get to be a part of kind of so many oth- other people's things.

    20. SB

      Yeah.

    21. SB

      Um, but it's, uh,

  15. 37:04 – 39:57

    The Praise and Hate I Received Were Both Misunderstood

    1. SB

      it's a unique thing. But I told you, it... The biggest lesson I learned from all of it is that, at one point in my life, I received so much praise and then the next moment, without me expecting it, I received so much hate. And on the other side of all these experiences, I've come to learn that both were not deserved. The people who were praising me did not know me, and the people who hated me did not know me. And it's like one of my favorite, uh... I, I saw Tom Hanks say this on like a actor's table one time, he goes, "This too shall pass." Remember that?

    2. SB

      Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    3. SB

      It was so great. He's like, "You think you're killing it? This too shall pass." (laughs) He's like, "You think it's gonna be hard? This too shall pass." Like, it's true. An-

    4. SB

      So what do you anchor in, then? If so much is transient?

    5. SB

      At this point?

    6. SB

      In life generally? What, what does one anchor in? If everything is transient, if, you know, this too shall pass-

    7. SB

      If you don't have kids yet. I have a major anchor in three kids.

    8. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    9. SB

      Major anchor.

    10. SB

      What if you don't have kids?

    11. SB

      If you don't have kids, that's when you should definitely do the self-work, 'cause your anchor's you. And, and the truth is, I've really gotten to a beautiful place of I fully expect to be misunderstood in the future. I expect tomorrow something can happen where, especially because my life has been somewhat in the public eye, you get misunderstood all the time, people make up stories, they twist things, someone's hurt and it comes out this way, that way. I can get pulled into this stuff, it's happened to me already, and so I've come to terms with that. What I've realized is, being on the other side of it already happening to me, all it does is end up making room for something else. So for me, what anchors me is, I no longer think I'm in control, but I think I'm participating in one hell of a game. I can't control the outcome. I'm... Steph Curry and Lebron could be at the height of their game, but even they can't control the game. They can influence it. And so that for me, it was like the first half of my life was, "I'm manifesting, I'm manifesting, I'm doing this." That youthful energy. And then you turn 40 and this stuff happens, and you start the other half of your life, you're like, um, you know, Michael Singer, "I need to surrender." You know, you ever hear of their surrender experiment?

    12. SB

      Yeah. (laughs)

    13. SB

      You know, like, everything surrender. And then I realized there's a balance. There's this balance of, I'm participating in an incredible game, and I can bring what I bring to the table, and I'm not gonna be able to control this game, but maybe I should start enjoying the game a little bit. I'm out here, I'm participating. That's pretty freaking cool. And I think that is what anchors me at this point. That I have no idea what the next five to 10 years of my life are gonna look like. I used to think I did. Now I know it can change like that. And I think I'm excited for love in the future, I'm excited for adventure. I'm not looking forward to the pain, but I know if it comes, there's a reason for it.

  16. 39:57 – 44:31

    An Artist You Were Wrong About

    1. SB

    2. SB

      So tell me about a, an artist that you believed in. You don't have to name them, of course.

    3. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    4. SB

      But an artist you believed in, you were wrong about. Something you really just, your first principles were off. And in hindsight...

    5. SB

      I had an artist who was, honestly, maybe the most talented artist I ever signed. Uh, his name was Spencer Lee. And Spencer Lee got brought to me by a buddy of mine named Freddy. Uh, and we did a deal for Spencer and Dave Appleton, who I told you about, my buddy, was trying to handle him in management. And Dave started calling me saying, "Hey, there's some real addiction issues here and we're really struggling." And we put him into rehab, and then he wrote one of the most incredible songs, River Water.

    6. NA

      River water, wash me clean, oh. Send away my worries please. River water, take me down. Show me the dreams that I never found. River water's where I want to drown.

    7. SB

      About addiction. And when he got out, we thought, "Okay, he's gonna be clean and everything, great." We made this video and we started getting going, we made the Spencer Lee Band. And he, we started putting him out there, like paying for everything to kind of get it going. And he started doing festivals, and we started getting phone calls of like, "Hey, people are coming to see this insane talent with this voice." And he went, uh, back to drugs, and, um, he overdosed last year and, uh, he's no longer with us. And we got the news 'cause his grandmother, who's the sweetest, she called to say, "Thank you for trying and everything else." And that was the love of her life, and she lost him. And, um, that one I got wrong because I thought, you know, maybe if we get the records right, if we get the music, if he gets on the road, you know, he gets out of rehab, like, you know, this would be enough. It's one of the biggest tragedies, 'cause I, I can't tell you how good he was. I mean, he... just a special, special talent. You listen to this guy's records... Sometimes I always say I want to like reach out to his family and be like, "Let's just release the records. Like the ones that I have that the world's never heard."... and I, you know, I... All the money should go to, you know, a cause, you know, to help people in a similar situation. I wish we could do that. I'd love to get permission to do that, um, 'cause he was one of the most special talents I ever came across.

    8. SB

      They don't want to release the records?

    9. SB

      It's complicated.

    10. SB

      Last week, I was in New York interviewing one of the world's leading addiction experts, and if... for anyone that hasn't been through addiction, it's a very confusing thing to observe, because as an on- onlooker you just go, "Just stop that. You're self-destructing." But if you've had friends that have dealt with addiction, you realize that it's not an attempt to self-destruct. It's like an attempt to...

    11. SB

      Fill.

    12. SB

      Yeah. It's like a... It's maybe the last ditch attempt to do the opposite to survive, to survive from something.

    13. SB

      When I was dealing with addiction with someone I managed, um, someone I really respect told me about Al-Anon. Uh, Al-Anon is for a support. It's like AA, but for the families.

    14. SB

      Oh. Ah.

    15. SB

      And they recommended I go, and I went to two Al-Anon meetings, and it was very helpful at the time. And one of the things I learned there was, one, this concept of it is not your fault. You... This is not about you, that you have to love them where they're at. You can... You know. But the biggest thing I really learned was be a rock. You know, they... This person said to me, "Home doesn't move around. Home is a constant place that someone can come back to." If someone beats addiction, it is because of them. You know, they've made that choice and they deserve the credit. But if you want to be helpful, this person said, "Just try to be a constant place they know that no matter what, at the end, they can come back, and they're... and you'll be waiting."

    16. SB

      Understanding your story, you stuck around with Justin when he went through his, his difficult times and people were calling for you to drop him and to maybe move on.

    17. SB

      Yeah, I think it was an interesting time, but like I said, if someone beats that, they deserve the credit. So I don't, I don't deserve any credit in that. He does.

  17. 44:31 – 51:31

    Quitting Music Management

    1. SB

    2. SB

      You ended up posting that post on your Instagram which sent a ton of headlines around the world saying that you were quitting music management.

    3. SB

      (laughs) 23 years?

    4. SB

      After 23 years. There was a little bit of a question mark though because, eh, I think you referenced in something you posted that part of your inspiration or a catalyst was a particular artist had decided that they wanted to go their own way.

    5. SB

      Yeah.

    6. SB

      Who was that?

    7. SB

      I'd prefer not to say.

    8. SB

      Okay.

    9. SB

      There's a bunch of legal stuff around that and everything else, but, uh, she-

    10. SB

      Okay.

    11. SB

      Uh, she informed me, and I respected the hell out of it that she w- she felt that way, and, uh... But I'd had that conversation with others too, and, and, um, I wro- I mean, I wrote It All in 23 Years. The reason I posted that at the time was I'd already made the decision a year prior but I'd never talked about it, and, you know, when you're running a big company, there's all these, you know, legal things and we had to wait til everything was in order and then I could say it. And, um, and they were like, "Well, you've already been out of it for a year. Why say it now?" And I just felt, I need to say it for me, but I also need to say it so I hold myself accountable not to ever go back.

    12. SB

      Ah, okay.

    13. SB

      And I... You know, it was way too long. It was like 10 slides on Instagram. (laughs)

    14. SB

      No, it was incredible.

    15. SB

      But it was, uh... I appreciate you saying that, but it was from the heart, and I remember waking up, posting it, and then just, like, falling down because I was like, oh my god, like, this thing I've been doing since I was 19 is now over. And what I wrote in there is the truth. My entire adult life, that's all I had known, so not being in that situation, I didn't know what a normal adult life was like. I didn't know you could have a weekend. Like, I didn't know, you know, like, that's what it was. I was on call all the time for 23 years, and it wasn't one, it was a lot. And, um, finding out what a normal adult life was like was pretty wild to me, and also really interesting. But I don't... I had some of the most incredible memories and I'm very grateful, but if you remember... Do you remember the Berry Gordy quote at the end?

    16. SB

      No, I don't.

    17. SB

      Berry Gordy is the founder of Motown Records. Berry Gordy is a kid from Detroit-

    18. SB

      Michael Jackson's theater play, Berry Gordy.

    19. SB

      Correct.

    20. SB

      Yes.

    21. SB

      So before Berry Gordy, black musicians would make incredible music and a white person could come along and just cover it and make it theirs. And Berry Gordy took that back and gave us Motown Records and changed the entire music industry.

    22. SB

      Ah.

    23. SB

      And I was at a dinner and Berry Gordy was placed next to me, and I was just like freaking out. Berry Gordy's sitting next to me. And we start talking, and this is years before. He said, "I'm gonna tell you a story and you're gonna need it one day," and boy was he right. (laughs) And he said, "You know, do you know what the Motown 25 was?" And I said, "Absolutely. It was the first time Michael Jackson did the Moonwalk, Diana Ross." And he's like, "Oh, you really are a Motown fan." I was like, "Yeah." And he said, "Well, did you know I didn't want to go?" I said, "What?" He goes, "Yeah, I didn't want to go. At the time, Michael had left for CBS Records, Diana had left for CBS Records, and everyone was saying that I took their publishing, and I was like the bad guy for all these people that I had supported and lifted and, like... I was so angry and I didn't want to go." I said, "Well, what changed?" He goes, "My family made me go." And I said, "Yeah, 'cause I remember you were on the balcony and they kept cutting to you." And he goes, "You know, the first... I get there and Diana Ross is hosting. Michael's gonna perform. He's the biggest thing in the world. I'm, I'm mad. But as the night went on, I suddenly realized little Barry from Detroit would have lost his mind knowing this was coming."

    24. SB

      Mm.

    25. SB

      He said, "Young man, it will never end the way you want it to, but it doesn't mean it didn't happen." And I didn't know how much I needed that in the years to come. You can plan it, you can try and control it as much as you want, but Berry Gordy was right. It will never end the way you want it unless you're Derek Jeter on the Yankees. (laughs)

    26. SB

      (laughs)

    27. SB

      But... Or, you know, or you're Messi. (laughs) But, um, but most of us, it's not gonna end the way we want it. However, it happened, and how cool is that?Like, how cool is that? That, like, we get to do this and get to have this life. And I thought, "That's the way I wanted to end 23 years." Because the- me stopping managing and ending managing and, it didn't end the way I necessarily wanted. I would've wanted a giant concert where all the artists come out, we celebrate everything we did together. It ended pretty abruptly of like, "Oh, this is it." And some wanna leave and some wanna stay and, yeah, I'm done. I don't wanna do this anymore. And some people understood it and other people didn't, but it happened, and no one could ever take that away.

    28. SB

      Did you ever feel betrayed?

    29. SB

      Oh, of course. But I'm sure that goes both ways. Like, as much as I felt betrayed, like, music business can be heartbreaking. Management can be heartbreaking. If you watch David Geffen's documentary he says, m- uh, management is like move the mountain over here and they say, "It was supposed to be there." (laughs)

    30. SB

      (laughs)

  18. 51:31 – 52:34

    Ads

    1. SB

      B2B marketeers keep making this mistake, they're chasing volume instead of quality. And when you try to be seen by more people instead of the right people, all you're doing is making noise, but that noise rarely shifts the needle and it's often quite expensive. And I know, as there was a time in my career where I kept making this mistake that many of you will be making it too. Eventually, I started posting ads on our show sponsor's platform, LinkedIn, and that's when things started to change. I put that change down to a few critical things, one of them being that LinkedIn was then, and still is today, the platform where decision makers go to, not only to think and learn, but also to buy. And when you market your business there, you're putting it right in front of people who actually have the power to say yes. And you can target them by job title, industry, and company size. It's simply a sharper way to spend your marketing budget. And if you haven't tried it, how about this? Give LinkedIn ads a try, and I'm going to give you $100 ad credit to get you started. If you visit linkedin.com/diary, you can claim that right now. That's linkedin.com/diary.

  19. 52:34 – 54:37

    Selling Your Company for $1.1 Billion

    1. SB

      You sold your company for $1.1 billion. That's what I read. You can't confirm or deny it, but-

    2. SB

      That's publicly traded, so I can confirm-

    3. SB

      Oh, okay, okay.

    4. SB

      ... but I don't like talking about it. (laughs)

    5. SB

      You sold your company for $1.1 billion, which I don't think people realize it's a fucking lot of money, um, at 39 years old, roughly?

    6. SB

      Yeah. I was about to turn 40.

    7. SB

      You talk about laying on the beach-

    8. SB

      Yeah.

    9. SB

      ... with your belly out.

    10. SB

      Yeah.

    11. SB

      I mean, with a significant amount of money in your bank account, without the same job that's sort of demanding your time seven days a week. A lot of people are scared of that. A lot, not, not the money, but the gap, the uncertainty, the space.

    12. SB

      Honestly, the timing of when it happened for me, I was in such a place, like I said, of surrender, that I really wasn't looking at it as like achievement or money or something like that. I more looked at it as, "What are you gonna do now? Are you gonna try and control or are you gonna participate?" Like I told you earlier. And I started to just be curious for the first time instead of, I love this idea of a competitive mind versus a cur- a cur- curious and creative mind.

    13. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    14. SB

      A competitive mind is what I had, and it's, it's where I was of there's always something finite when you're competitive. You know, it's going to finish, there's going to be an outcome, and then what? But when you're operating from a curious and creative mind, there's no end. You can just continue to create, you continue to build. And I want, I wanna be in that place in my life now of what, how big can I think? I saw this Jeff Bezos interview the other day and he just said, "One of the biggest curses of an entrepreneur is not thinking big enough."

    15. SB

      Hmm.

    16. SB

      You know? And I think, you know, think big. You know, you only get one ride around this thing.

    17. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    18. SB

      Think big, have fun, love your friends, love your family, dance, laugh, cry, you know, do all the things, and get to know yourself more and more every single

  20. 54:37 – 57:41

    How Pivotal Was the Incident With Taylor Swift?

    1. SB

      day.

    2. SB

      Just before that time, we have this whole Taylor Swift incident.

    3. SB

      What happened?

    4. SB

      (laughs) Is this the moment you're talking about, where you received bad press?

    5. SB

      Oh, bad press, yeah, yeah. That was-

    6. SB

      That's the-

    7. SB

      When I bought Big Machine, I thought I was going to work with all the artists on Big Machine. I thought it was gonna be, like, an exciting thing. I knew that Taylor, uh, she and I had only met three times, I think, in my life. Three or four times? And one of the time, it was years earlier, it was really a great engagement. She invited me to her private party, and we, we, we respected each other, we had a great engagement. In between that time, it's just I'd seen her last, I started managing Kanye West, I managed Justin Bieber. I knew she didn't get along with them. I had a feeling, this is where my arrogance came in, I had a feeling she probably didn't like me 'cause I managed them, but I thought that once this announcement happened, she would talk to me, see who I am, and we would work together. And the announcement came out, and I'm calling Scott Borchetta and saying, "Hey, send me her number. I'm, I just talked to Thomas Rhett and he's excited, and I just talked to, you know, uh, this p- you know, this person and they're excited. And I'm calling, you know, Florida Georgia Line next, and oh, I'ma get." And then this Tumblr comes out and it says all this stuff, and I was just, like, shocked. Um, and it's, it's been five, six years, I don't need to go back into it, but what I can tell you is everything in life is a gift. Having that experience allows me to have empathy for the people I worked with, who I would always say, "Yeah, I understand," but I never knew what it was like to be on the global stage like that. I never knew what criticism like that felt like. And like I told you, the biggest gift that I got from that was understanding that all the praise I had received up until that moment was not deserved, and all the hate I got after that moment was not deserved.

    8. SB

      (laughs)

    9. SB

      'Cause none of these people knew me.

    10. SB

      Yeah.

    11. SB

      She didn't know me. This person didn't know me. This person who met me three times, they didn't know me. I can show respect for all of them 'cause I don't know them, so I can love them where they're at. But the gift of pain was awareness, and the other part was going through very, something very personal shortly afterwards, going through the divorce, my marriage, and all these different things, and it just felt like one after another. But I look back, if those didn't, things didn't happen, I, I really think they're all gifts. 'Cause when, when something's fair, you don't respect it. When something happens to you that you feel is fair, you're just like, "Oh, I, I, I deserved that." You move on. You feel justified 'cause you saw it coming. When something happens to you that feels deeply unfair and you can't fix it, then you really gotta look at everything and realize the role you played in this, or maybe this or that, or who do you want to be or how ... So I'm grateful.

  21. 57:41 – 1:00:18

    Contending With an Unfair World

    1. SB

    2. SB

      But how does one contend with an unfair world? And I use the word unfair as well because, you know, we've got investigative re- researchers here who looked through everything relating to that particular deal, and then we also looked at what's written on the internet, and there's this great disparity between what actually happened and what people say happened.

    3. SB

      Yeah. (laughs)

    4. SB

      And there's actually, I think there's a documentary out there which goes into it in great detail, which Andrew Schulz was talking, talking about on a podcast, which I saw. So I looked at that documentary as well.

    5. SB

      I mean, look, I'm grateful for a couple things. One, my kids were really young when it happened, so they didn't feel it as much.

    6. SB

      Yeah.

    7. SB

      It was very hard at the time. It was hard on the marriage, it was hard on our family. But I also don't-

    8. SB

      You were getting death threats.

    9. SB

      Yeah, but I also don't know what was being said on the other side, you know? 'Cause I never got to have the conversation, you know? So I think when people aren't communicating or refusing to communicate, a lot of things can get misconstrued. And you, you know, I don't wanna hold any hatred or, like, I, we, everyone moves on, you know? So yes, I appreciate you saying that. I appreciate you actually doing the research. But for me, I choose to see it as a gift. I choose to see it as being able to have a perspective that very few people in the world have, of knowing what that's like, of feeling that on a global level.

    10. SB

      Pain.

    11. SB

      Yeah. And also just-

    12. SB

      What does that mean in, in reality? When you-

    13. SB

      It just felt unfair. It felt like, and but so much, of course, of course it happened to me, right? Of course, because here I was thinking my value was from all this praise.

    14. SB

      Hmm.

    15. SB

      You know? And, and I'd, and everything was me making sure that I was living up to it, and then this happens and it's unfair and I can't control it. And of course, the universe was, like, screaming at me. Like, God's screaming at me, like, "Hey, wake up. You're not in control. You can't navigate all of this. You don't get to decide what your legacy is. And you, you just get to decide who you are on a daily basis and who you choose to see in yourself and how you treat the people that love you and the people you can actually interact with."

    16. SB

      Surrender.

    17. SB

      But surrender and participate. You know, that's the big thing for me. It's more than just surrender. It's surrender and participate and just enjoy the ride. That's why I got the tattoo. You know? It was, I can't worry about everyone's niece being mad at me.

    18. SB

      (laughs)

    19. SB

      (laughs) You know? Like, you know? It, it's, what I gotta do is, is show up for my niece, you know?

    20. SB

      (laughs)

    21. SB

      And I gotta show up for my friends and my family, and I wish everyone involved across the board, whether I know them or not, nothing but

  22. 1:00:18 – 1:01:56

    If I Had Seen You Then, What Would I Have Seen?

    1. SB

      good wishes.

    2. SB

      When I say specifically that pain, people don't... Like, I think about how many people on Earth have experienced such a thing. And if you, if I could be a fly on the wall that is actually just, has CCTV for eyes, and I was watching you at that moment in time, just for seven days I got to watch Scooter-

    3. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    4. SB

      ... what would I have seen?

    5. SB

      Like I said, at that point I hadn't really done the work.

    6. SB

      Okay.

    7. SB

      Um ...

    8. SB

      So resistance.

    9. SB

      Resistance, trying to navigate it, trying to understand it, trying to, um, figure out how to fix it.... and then I couldn't, but then I did financially. Like, I couldn't fix the relationship that I didn't have, but then I was able to figure out, okay, you know what? We will sell it. You know, in a, in a world of streaming, re-records will only help the old catalog as much as they help the new catalog. Both will get a bump. I presented that. I showed, you know, how everyone can be a winner here, and I was able to sell the catalog. And, uh, I don't wanna go into too much detail-

    10. SB

      Sure.

    11. SB

      ... but I, but I offered it. The... It's, uh, now come out very factually that I did offer it. There's evidence of that-

    12. SB

      Yeah.

    13. SB

      ... multiple times in that process. They said no. I sold it to someone else and I washed my hands of it and moved on. And I actually sometimes look back at that and I go, the universe was trying to teach me something, and I navigated out of it. I found a way out. So then the universe went, "Oh, man, we tried to, tried to give you a warning sign. We tried to, like... You're, you're sailing by on the Titanic and we're waving, like, iceberg." (laughs)

    14. SB

      Ah.

    15. SB

      And then the universe said, "Okay, you really didn't pay attention and you still aren't

  23. 1:01:56 – 1:07:11

    Your Divorce

    1. SB

      doing the work? Marriage." 'Cause that one got me. That one got me to pay attention. Losing my kids 50% of the time, that one changed everything. And the world, that still couldn't move me. I was still able to figure out the chessboard. But my kids and my marriage, that one rocked me and woke me up. What's really crazy is when I told you I did this Hoffman process, I won't tell you the process 'cause you're not supposed to, but I can tell you at the end of the week, they-

    2. SB

      Can you g- give it context for anyone that doesn't know the-

    3. SB

      The Hoffman process is, is one week, no phone, no email, um, intense work on your early childhood to understand why you are the way you are, and give you tools to go out in the world and understand yourself. The reason I went, October of 2020, my marriage was falling apart. The whole world thought I was crushing it. Ariana's crushing it, this J- Justin's cr- all these people, like, were on fire. And I had a suicidal thought for 20 minutes where I was like, "If my marriage is gonna fall apart, I'm not gonna be with my kids all the time. I can't control this. I'm not gonna be this perfect image that I've presented to the world. And if I can't be this perfect image, I don't wanna be here." And it went to a very dark place. And after 20 minutes, I said, "What the hell was that? That's not me. I would never leave my kids. I don't really, like, leave anybody. Like, what was that?" And the next morning, I was on the set of a, a video shoot, and a friend of mine called and he said, you know, "What's going on with you?" And I told him. I told him about that night before. He called me back with another friend and they said, "You need to go to Hoffman. We did it. It changed our life." They told me that they could get me in in two weeks 'cause there was a cancellation. October 24th, and that was the release of Ariana Grande's Dangerous Woman album. It was the busiest week of the year for me in work. And I started laughing in the parking lot of this video shoot. And she goes, "Do you want us to pick another week?" I said, "No." I said, "I've spent my whole life pursuing these things, doing this, choosing this, choosing Scooter, choosing that life, choosing the clients, and I'm the top of my game, yet I wanted to kill myself last night. Something's gotta change." And I chose to go to that place instead, and the hard stuff actually came after I got outta Hoffman. You know, I ended up going through a divorce. I ended up going through all this different stuff. But I never was depressed again. And the most interesting thing that happened on the other side of it is, six years ago, I was biggest manager and the perfect marriage and, you know, everything I touched turned to gold, and there was no negative press about me ever. Six years later, I'm divorced. I don't manage anymore. I've had negative press, (laughs) and I couldn't be happier. It doesn't mean it doesn't ebb and flow, but I get to be the dad I've always wanted to be and the friend I've always wanted to be. And it doesn't mean that things aren't gonna go, you know, be hard and I'm gonna s- suffer more things and go through them, but I'm in a place that I understand amor fati, it's like everything's a gift. And I'm being super long-winded, but that's the story. (laughs)

    4. SB

      (laughs) That phone call the day after that to your friends-

    5. SB

      Yeah.

    6. SB

      ... did you tell them the truth on the phone?

    7. SB

      Yeah.

    8. SB

      The full truth?

    9. SB

      Yeah, I did.

    10. SB

      And what was that full truth?

    11. SB

      That I had, the night before, thought about, you know, just shutting it all off. It wasn't even the idea that I wanted to die. I just wanted the noise in my head to go away. I wanted the failure, the disappointment, the fear... I was going to fail in my mind. I couldn't control it. I'd always been able to navigate out of failure and head towards success, a pit stop. But I had left... What I found at Hoffman I told you is my name, the inner child, the, the Scott. I had built this mask so big. I wanted to feel like me again, and I didn't realize how far away I, I'd gotten from that, building up this armor, building up the mask. You know, I, I wanna tell you something funny. I usually don't say names in these things, but I wanna give him credit 'cause I think it's hilarious. Michael Rapino is the CEO of Live Nation. He's an amazing guy. I think he's one of the most impressive people in the entire enterntain- entertainment industry because he wields so much power, but he also empowers other people so well. And after the divorce, after, you know, the big machine and, and stuff that happened with that, all these different things, and you know what Michael told me? He goes, "I like you a lot more now 'cause you seem human." (laughs)

    12. SB

      (laughs)

    13. SB

      You know? And he told me, he was like, "Before..." He's like, "Nobody goes, um, like, is like this." He's like, "You know, I just didn't..."

    14. SB

      (laughs)

    15. SB

      He goes, he goes, "I didn't think you were real. I thought you were full of shit." And-... he was right. I mean, it, I didn't know myself 'cause I had no reason to do so. And it wasn't until I had some real hardships and real pain and real scares and real rock-bottom moments that I started looking at myself and started figuring out who I was. And then everyone got to know me.

  24. 1:07:11 – 1:11:17

    Friends Being There for Me

    1. SB

      My best friends since I was 11 years old, they're the people I hang out with the most. Um, two of them live out here, Mike and Vuk. And I hang out with them all the time. And people who know me, they know these guys, because they've been my friends since we were 12 years old, 11 years old. And Mike and Vuk told me, at 40 years old when I was doing this work, "We've known you since you were 11, and this is the most we've ever known you." And I'm not surprised or insulted, 'cause they say, "You haven't changed, but we didn't know you." Because I was always, even to them, presenting what I thought they needed me to be: perfect. And then I broke, and then I said, "This happened and this happened. When I was a kid, this was going on, and this was..." And they were like, "We love you." And I really became one of the boys for the first time in my life. I became one of the boys because the boys became vulnerable. I thought it was the opposite my whole life. I thought you had to be cool, you had to be tough to be one of the boys. And it was funny, because they didn't... All the achievements, not only did they not give a shit about, I probably lost touch with them more so. And when everything fell apart, they were the ones that were there, the ones who knew Scott, the ones who didn't care about any of it. And I've never really even said that out loud to this extent until right now, and I'm actually glad I get to say on here both their names, because they... damn, (laughs) they picked me up in a, in a really, really tough time, and a time where I couldn't even look at my own brothers 'cause I was too ashamed. And, um, and I never felt like one of the guys. Like, I felt like I had those friends, but I just couldn't let them all the way in, because I felt, "Well, maybe I'm smarter. Maybe I'm this. Maybe I need to be perfect." And it wasn't till I really hit rock bottom that I realized that they always had my back, and I'd made all these stupid ideas in my head, and they were, they were there. And they weren't there for Scooter. You know, they were there for Scott. And I see you getting a little emotional too-

    2. SB

      Yeah, man.

    3. SB

      ... because you probably have the same type of friends. So, I'll... I did it, so you can do it too. What, what are their names?

    4. SB

      Uh, Michael, Ash, Dom, Anthony, and Oliver. But they are, they're, they're the constant. They're the, they're there through everything, the up, the down, the up, the down, the up, the down again.

    5. SB

      And they don't give a crap about any of this.

    6. SB

      They don't give a fuck about any of it.

    7. SB

      In fact, if your friends are like mine, they're brutal about this stuff.

    8. SB

      (laughs)

    9. SB

      My friends rip me. Like, if people saw the text messages between us, they would think we hate each other.

    10. SB

      (laughs)

    11. SB

      Um, but we love each other deeply. And, and the best part about the messages is the random, "Hey guys, I love you." You know, I, it happens all the time. I get a phone call, pick up, I'll just see Paul. "Hey brother, I love you. Just wanna call and tell you." I'm really grateful. Like, I have so many different people I can name. And what was really interesting is, before all this happened, I don't know if you can relate to this, but I spent so much time trying to impress people who didn't want to love me, instead of realizing how many people already did.

    12. SB

      (clears throat) I was just thinking what a great shame it is that the amount of units of energy we exert on, as you said, like the external, like the audience, whereas when you ask me who would be there for me irrespective of what was going on in my life, I can name them. And then I ask myself, "How much energy and effort am I putting into these relationships?" And I'm embarrassed about how much energy and effort I'm putting into these relationships. I'm like embarrassed by it. (laughs) I'm like-

    13. SB

      They, they wouldn't care but they'll-

    14. SB

      It makes me this scumbag.

    15. SB

      ... and they'll, and they'll still be there.

    16. SB

      Yeah, they don't care. Yeah.

    17. SB

      You know? And, and that's the best part, 'cause when you do start putting your energy, it becomes even more fun.

  25. 1:11:17 – 1:22:08

    Why My Marriage Fell Apart

    1. SB

      It's really, it's really, um, it's really difficult for me to understand, and this is my naivety. The part that's difficult for me to understand is you... Family meant so much to you. Didn't you, don't you have a tattoo that says "family"?

    2. SB

      First one.

    3. SB

      You have a tat-

    4. SB

      When I was 18.

    5. SB

      You got a tattoo at 18 about your future family.

    6. SB

      Correct.

    7. SB

      So family has been this, like, dream and ambition of yours.

    8. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    9. SB

      So it's surprising to me, as someone who's naive in this context, that some... it had to be threatened for you to care enough to-

    10. SB

      No, I cared. I just, uh... Childhood trauma's a hell of a thing, man. (laughs)

    11. SB

      Yeah.

    12. SB

      It's, um... And we all have it. That was the thing. The reason I didn't think I had it is because I had friends who, you know, had parents who were alcoholics. I had friends who had parents who this. So, I always thought, you know, "Both my parents are here. They love me." Like, the stuff I dealt with, that's not real. You know, I come from an immigrant family. Like, "We can deal with this." Like, "We're strong, you know, that's not real." And what I realized is everyone has trauma. That's the human experience. And the faster we value our own trauma and stop trying to downplay it because we don't think it equals someone else's, the more we can work on ourselves.

    13. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    14. SB

      Because all you get to do is work on yourself. You don't get to work on the other person.

    15. SB

      Yeah.

    16. SB

      Like, you can really only work on yourself. You can help the other person, but the work, that's only here. And I think that I saw my life as perfect, so why change anything? And that's why you're smiling.

    17. SB

      (laughs) So stop calling me out.

    18. SB

      Yeah, you're smiling.

    19. SB

      It's so true, but it's true, yeah.

    20. SB

      Because you see your life as perfect, and she's screaming at you.

    21. SB

      It's like everything's going fine, yeah.

    22. SB

      She's screaming at you and trying to... and you can't see it.

    23. SB

      She's not screaming just yet. She is increa-

    24. SB

      In her own way.

    25. SB

      ... increasingly expressing to me, in, in, yeah, in her own way, that there is...... an issue. And I, I'm gonna be completely honest, 'cause this is why I started this podcast was the diary of a CEO. So, this is what would be written in my diary. The alarm is getting louder and I'm still in a, a state where I think I've got a l- a lot of time before the alarm is so loud that I can't fix it.

    26. SB

      I gotcha. I see you, buddy.

    27. SB

      (laughs)

    28. SB

      Trust me. I see, and here's the funny thing. I don't wanna go into details, 'cause I have a lot of respect.

    29. SB

      Yeah.

    30. SB

      We're family forever. It goes both ways. It's not like there was one thing happ- it... Both people have to play a role in where we got to. You know, things happen on, you know, both ways. However, Chris Rock says something really special, he goes, "Relationships are actually quite easy." You know, you ever try to pick up a couch with two people? No problem. Pick up a couch by yourself, and that was the thing. We- we both went to pick up the couch at different times and we were made to be amazing co-parents. We were made to come into each other's lives, to help each other be better in different ways through the heartbreak of our relationship ending. And we were, we were brought together to make three incredible souls. And now, whoever gets me next is in for a treat.

Episode duration: 1:54:10

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