Steve-O: Childhood Trauma, Addiction, Mocking Death & Craving Attention!

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 0:00 It is of paramount importance that I find separation between me and the persona of Steve-O.

Steven Bartlett 0:06 Why?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 0:07 Ooh. We have to go back to the beginning of my journey. I didn't get attention from my parents. My dad was a businessman, and my mom suffered from alcoholism.

Steven Bartlett 0:17 Your father would praise you for stunts, diving headfirst for baseballs.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 0:21 And he'd give $1. I don't think you have to be Sigmund Freud to imagine that had something to do with becoming an attention whore. That was when I started doing dangerous stunts. I'm Steve-O, and this is the Fish Hook.

Steven Bartlett 0:34 Why stunts?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 0:35 Growing up, I've felt defective, and the thought was, I wasn't gonna live very long. So, I was lashing out at death, taunting it, but I lost my mom in 2003, and that traumatized me more than anything. I was out of control, broadcasting my downward spiral to 200 influential people in real time.

Steven Bartlett 0:56 You were manhandled into a psych ward.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 0:58 Yeah. This was gonna be my legacy, having miserably failed at life, and the, the toughest thing is that I wanted to make my mom proud.

Steven Bartlett 1:13 Stephen Gilchrist Glover, AKA Steve-O. Honesty. Honesty saved Steve-O's life. But the man that sits in front of me today isn't Steve-O, it is Stephen Gilchrist Glover, which is a man you've probably never met before. But once you meet Stephen Gilchrist Glover, you'll undoubtedly understand Steve-O, that guy that we grew up with, on our screens doing those crazy jackass stunts, that behind the scenes struggled with a deep discomfort of being in his own skin. Depression, drug addiction, existential panic, an obsession with attention, crippling grief, and most surprisingly and paradoxically of all, a deep, deep fear of death. It absolutely doesn't appear to make sense, but once you listen to this conversation, if you listen closely, you'll understand exactly why that's driving him. This conversation will make you laugh. It will inspire you. It will motivate you. It will challenge you. It will make you feel understood, and it will teach you what it takes and what it means to live a good life, including the role that romantic love has played in Steve-O finally living a good life. And for me, it reaffirms to me once again that in order to live that good life, in order to find that good life, we need to surrender, stop fighting life, and we need to be honest. And once we are, we might just find all of the things that we're looking for. You're gonna love this one. Steven.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 2:53 All right.

Steven Bartlett 2:55 You've lived a anomalous life.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 2:59 Okay.

Steven Bartlett 2:59 The man that sits before me today is, uh, an anomaly in many respects. It's, uh, th- the professional path you've walked is extraordinary,

Steven Bartlett 3:07 to say the least. In order to understand you, what, what do I need to understand about your, your earliest context to understand who you are and why you walked the path you did in your life?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 3:19 Um-

Steven Bartlett 3:19 What's the first sort of domino that, that I need to understand?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 3:23 I would point to my, uh, lineage. My mom's side of the family is, uh, like the whole family tree, every leaf on the tree, um, suffered from alcoholism, some form of addiction, um, and, and, and at the same time, very, uh, personable, um, charismatic individuals, but just v- very alcoholic and a lot of deviants. And then my dad's side of the family is, uh, super academic, um. There's, uh, l- a lot of theologians, clergymen. Everybody's got at, at least, like, a master's degree or a PhD or s- they're, you know, highly decorated academia. And my dad broke the mold by becoming a businessman. Um, so I just kind of think that I am a little bit of a hybrid of both in that I definitely went towards deviance and suffered from alcoholism, but I had this rocket engine on it from my dad's side of the family. And as I've grown older, I think my, uh ... I'm, I'm, m- can manifest my dad's side more than my mom's side.

Steven Bartlett 4:58 Well, before we started recording, I said that one of the things that really surprised me, we're, we're sat in London now, was to learn that you were born in London back in 1974.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 5:06 Yeah. Born in Wimbledon, um, which makes me British. My mother was born in Canada, which makes me Canadian, and my father was born in America, which makes me American. I'm what you call triple national.

Steven Bartlett 5:21 Wow.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 5:22 And I hold three valid passports.

Steven Bartlett 5:26 I'm very jealous.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 5:27 It's cool.

Steven Bartlett 5:28 It's like having the keys to the, to the world in many respects. How, how did that impact you though? 'Cause you, you told me that you were, you were born here. Your first words were in Portuguese in Brazil.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 5:38 Correct. Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 5:38 Then you were in Venezuela, then Canada, then the USA. As a young child that's figuring out the world and figuring out where he belongs and making friends, how does that sort of destabilization impact, impact you in hindsight?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 5:52 I don't think you have to be Sigmund Freud to imagine that, uh, that had something to do with me becoming an attention whore. And, um, I think that it's actually-... exacerbated by the fact that when I moved to Brazil at the age of six months, um, I moved to Brazil because my father became the president of Pepsi Cola in all of Brazil, and it was just kinda living it up, you know. Um, I think that's the best way to describe it. And I didn't get much attention from my parents. I was actually raised, um, by live-in maids, which is why I spoke my first words in Portuguese. So, I think I was lacking for some attention from my parents, and I think that that has something to do, plus the instability. A- and, and always being the new kid in school, it was... I never stayed one place for more than a couple years. Um, so yeah, I, uh, I, I, I point to that for why I became such an attention whore.

Steven Bartlett 7:07 The, the context that you, you raised in your... Your mother's at home, your dad's very, very busy. Very successful businessman by all accounts.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 7:14 Yeah. Not just busy, but traveling.

Steven Bartlett 7:16 Okay.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 7:17 My, my dad was consistently gone. I, I would argue that he was gone more than he was home. And, and Mom w- was drunk, um, a lot, so I had, um... Not just, uh, lacking attention, but lacking supervision a lot of the time too.

Steven Bartlett 7:39 In, in 2023, we've learned a lot about addiction and alcoholism and those kinds of things. But I, I imagine, I mean, I wasn't alive then, but back in 1974, people didn't understand that behavior as clearly as they do now. D- did you understand

Steven Bartlett 7:54 your mother's behavior when you were young? Did you understand her relationship with alcohol was a, uh, uh, an unhealthy thing or an addiction?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 8:02 I think so, yeah. Um, I think so because I remember, um, she would have these, these binges drinking, um, where it, it wouldn't be the case that my mom would get drunk at night and then wake up and, you know, have a hangover and, and then get drunk again the next night. It was more of a case where she would stay drunk for, for days or weeks on end. Um, and-

Steven Bartlett 8:35 You were, you were how old? Sorry.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 8:36 Oh, um, like it, it got really pretty crazy I would say when I was about eight. Certainly when I was nine it was, it was terrible. And, um, whenever my mom would, would sober up from one of her binges, she would swear that she was never gonna drink again, and invariably she would. A- and, and I, I say this because I think I really, really understood the concept of the disease of alcoholism very well, because when I would come home from school and find that my mom was drinking, I would, I would say to her, you know, "Mom, you said you were never gonna do this again." And she would explain to me that this time it was gonna be different. This time she was only gonna have a couple. And I remember knowing that that was not the case, and that's kind of the, the reality of alcoholism is that the alcoholic, once they start drinking, they cannot stop. They've lost control. And, and, and that it's, it's a characteristic of alcoholics, the idea that, that they... The illusion that one day they're gonna control and enjoy their drinking, a- and, and, uh, and they pursue this illusion into the gates of insanity or death. That's, that's, uh, how it's described. And I understood that, so I knew if Mom had one drink, I knew that all bets were off for days or weeks.

Steven Bartlett 10:12 You know, like you talked about lineage, like-

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 10:15 Yeah, the family line?

Steven Bartlett 10:17 Yeah. Uh, what is, what is that then? Is that, is that a predisposition? Is that a genetic predisposition in your view? Or is that a, a, uh, generational trauma, you know? Did you, have you ever figured out what causes that?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 10:31 I understand there to be a genetic component to the alcoholism. Um, I don't know that it really matters, um, as much like, like why one becomes an alcoholic. But, um, certainly, as I said, on my mom's side of the, the family, it never skipped a generation. I mean, it got everybody. And the insanity of it, I mean, one could really describe it as, as a mental illness. I mean, they, they do say it's a disease that's centered in the mind. Um, for me to see and experience what I did as a child, like just how, how awful it got, and then for me to just pick up a drink, is, is so, is so insane. I mean, uh, if, if anybody should have known better, it should've been me. And I remember at the time, like 16 years old when I, when I started drinking regularly, I just, uh, convinced myself that what would make me different is that I was gonna enjoy it. I was gonna... I was gonna party. And, uh, it's just insanity.

Steven Bartlett 11:49 That, that, that speaks to the nature of the addiction and the disease though, because people, people that are outside of that situation might see it as, um, self-destructive, but clearly-

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 12:00 Sure.

Steven Bartlett 12:01 ... you know, clearly it's, it can't be that. It's clearly something else because you saw how destructive it was-

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 12:08 Right.

Steven Bartlett 12:08 ... and yet it still, through no choice-... you made. So, an intention you made, it- it managed to- to find you later in life. So, what about your father in this context? Is he aware that your mother's, has this disease of addiction with alcohol?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 12:23 Um, Mom would really do her best to get her act together by the time Dad got home from his business trips. Um, a- and with very little success, I would say. When Dad would get back, Mom would describe that- that she was ill. And- and- and Dad would believe it a lot of the time. I think Dad, uh, I mean, yeah, he knew, but, uh, but the extent of it and, um, how naive he was to- to believe that Mom just wasn't feeling well or ...

Steven Bartlett 12:58 Did he ... But did- did he- did he- did-

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 13:00 I don't know. I mean, we- we- we would describe it as rose-colored glasses. Um, I don't know. And- and- and perhaps Dad was just so focused on his stuff that ... I mean, I don't even know. It would be crazy to not know, but somehow, I believe that my dad was particularly naive or- or gullible or I- I'm- I'm not sure, but ...

Steven Bartlett 13:30 Sometimes I think men have a predisposition to avoid conflict. (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 13:36 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 13:36 And- and to opt for an easy life. (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 13:39 Right.

Steven Bartlett 13:40 Uh-huh.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 13:41 Uh, I think that that- that's probably fair, too. But man, it's, um, it just makes me really sad that, uh, that- that I lost my mom. Yeah, I lo- I lost my mom in- in 2003, um, November of 2003. And, um, I just, like, I think had we both, um, been in recovery ... I don't think anybody from my mom's side of the family ever managed to achieve long-term sobriety. I think I'm the first. And I just, I fantasize about what it would be like to, for- for my mom and I to have both gotten, you know, gotten it. What, like, what our relationship would be like. She would get such a kick out of it. I think that she would've gotten such a kick out of, um, me being successful. And she didn't get to see it, you know?

Steven Bartlett 14:43 Sh- she never s- she never saw it?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 14:44 Well, the thing w-

Steven Bartlett 14:46 'Cause Jackass had just started to move at that point, hadn't it?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 14:49 Well, the thing was that her last five years, she, um, was th- terribly disabled, both physically and mentally, because in 1998, she suffered, uh, an aneurysm, which le- which, uh ... Yeah. It, um, rendered her very disabled. So the last five years, uh, uh, it ... She- she didn't ... Sh- she had a really rough last five years. A- and- and that, um, traumatized me more than anything. She developed bedsores. She, uh, she cried in pain for- for her last five years. It- it- it was the most upsetting, the mo- the ... By far, the most traumatized I've ever been by anything, was the situation that my mom was in for her last five years. And, um ... Yeah, and- and- and it's all because of this, th- this, uh, this thing, this alcoholism. And- and had, again, like, had she been- been in recovery, had that not happened, had, like, we- we w- ... I just, again, I fantasize about what our relationship might be like today. But yeah, that started us off on a bummer. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 16:23 Yeah, I know. Yeah, it's, uh, it's- it's, it really interests in context, though. Specifically this, you know, you said the thing about attention and seeking attention from, um ... In a variety of different ways, because you were destabilized in terms of your school, early schooling life. Your father's not present. I- I read that you'd said that, um, you wanted your father's approval, and as a child, your father would praise you for physical stunts, such as-

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 16:44 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 16:45 ... diving headfirst, um, (laughs) f- for baseballs or doing push-ups for your fathers and his friends.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 16:52 Yeah. I would do a hundred push-ups in a row for his buddies. And he'd give me, like, $1. A- and that ... Eve- everybody got a kick outta that. I loved doing it. And, uh, I don't think they were terribly impressive push-ups, 'cause 100's a lot.

Steven Bartlett 17:10 (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 17:11 But, um, but yeah, I- I- I was a little bit of a, of a performer at my dad's behest.

Steven Bartlett 17:18 I think ... There's this thing called love languages. Have you ever seen it before? Have you ever done the love languages testing?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 17:23 No.

Steven Bartlett 17:24 It's this thing you do online, and I think it's pretty telling. I'm not into, like, pseudo bullshit whatever, but it, I think it's pretty telling, and it basic- ... You answer these, like, 30, 40 questions, and it tells

Steven Bartlett 17:33 you the language of love that you have. So some people are words of affirmation. That's how they kind of show and receive love. Some people are physical touch. Some people are little acts of service. Some people are gifts, for example. And it was making me, when I was reading that in your, in your book, I was thinking about how e- uh, like, that can become a love language for us. And it's funny, 'cause then I skipped to this moment later in your story where you had a heartbreak. And the way that you responded to the heartbreak to try and get attention was by-

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 18:00 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 18:00 ... doing stunts.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 18:01 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 18:02 And I just saw this connection there, and I thought, you know, it's interesting. Some of our love languages can be, like, (laughs) stunts or ... (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 18:08 Sure.

Steven Bartlett 18:08 ... or other forms of, like, validation.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 18:11 Uh-huh. Uh, it- it's an interesting take on it. I remember, um ...... at the point when I had the heartbreak, and that was when I, when I really started doing dangerous stunts. Um, it, it was less for... Well, yeah, it was for attention, and I wanted this, this, this girl who had dumped me to, uh, to be worried that I would die.

Steven Bartlett 18:40 (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 18:40 Like, uh, I mean, it, it, it's crazy. But yeah, I was like, I was jumping off rooftops, into pools and, and, you know, climbing off of, like, just huge balconies and stuff. And, um-

Steven Bartlett 18:55 And sending her the videos or just posting them where she could see them?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 18:58 Um, at, at the time, there was no such thing as sending videos without going to the post office.

Steven Bartlett 19:03 (laughs) Okay.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 19:05 But yeah, I would send her in... mail videos from the post office. I would mail them to her, like, once a year.

Steven Bartlett 19:12 (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 19:13 And, and, and the videos genuinely did get radder and radder. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 19:17 (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 19:18 Yeah, each new installment, uh, it was, um, it was wild. Yeah, it was crazy.

Steven Bartlett 19:23 If I'd asked you when you were a young man, in your teenage years, "What are you going to be when you grow up?" what would you have responded?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 19:28 Oh, man. The first actual thought I had for a career to pursue was, um, r- one in advertising. You know, um, my father had won a video camera in a golf tournament, and I stole it from his closet and began videotaping my skateboarding with my buddies. And, and I learned how to edit by plugging these video cassette recorders together, and I would hit play on one and record on the other to just record the, the good bits. And, and it was crude editing, not sophisticated.

Steven Bartlett 20:12 (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 20:12 Um, but, uh, I fell in love with the process. And clearly I wasn't that great at skateboarding, so, um, I just thought, there's something about this, uh, capturing video and then editing it to, you know, I mean, create presentations and ultimately to manipulate the video to cr- create influence. You know?

Steven Bartlett 20:43 Mm-hmm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 20:43 There was just something really magical and powerful about that. And, um, I, I thought that that would be a great career for me. And so I went off to the University of Miami to pursue that, but I just had trouble making it to class. So I, I... Graduating from university was not in the cards. And I, I, I knew I still loved the video camera and, you know, manipulating images to, to sway people one way or the other. And, um, I decided that since I wasn't that great at skateboarding, that I would do crazy stunts. And so I literally dropped out of university in 1993 to pursue a career as a crazy famous stuntman. And there was no precedent at the time. Like, everybody who I explained that plan to-

Steven Bartlett 21:39 (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 21:40 ... legitimately felt sorry for me. Like, what a tragic loser I, I seemed to be. A- and they weren't wrong for the first, uh, three years after I left the University of Miami. I was genuinely homeless. I was, um, m- more of a couch surfer than, you know, a, a guy living on the streets. Um, but yeah, I had no home, man. And, um, I was not doing well.

Steven Bartlett 22:11 Quick one before we get back to this episode. Just give me 30 seconds of your time. Two things I wanted to say. The first thing is a huge thank you for listening and tuning into the show week after week. It means the world to all of us, and this really is a dream that we absolutely never had and couldn't have imagined getting to this place. But secondly, it's a dream where we feel like we're only just getting started. And if you enjoy what we do here, please join the 24% of people who watch this channel regularly and have hit that subscribe button. It means more than I can say. And if you hit that subscribe button, here's a promise I'm gonna make to you. I'm gonna do everything in my power to make this show as good as I can, now and into the future. We're gonna deliver the guests that you want me to speak to, and we're gonna continue keep doing all of the things you love about this show. Thank you. Thank you so much. Back to the episode. There's so many things that... I wanna ask this question because it, I just really want to hear it in your own words, which is like... And I've, I've try to maybe piece it together using some connected dots. But why stunts?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 23:09 I have a theory that, um,

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 23:13 that the, the human condition is one of a, a real catch-22. We've got one instinct, which is to survive, and one guarantee, which is we won't survive. And I, and I view the human experience largely as an exercise to come to terms with our mortality, to wrap our heads around it, to become, to come to peace with it. And, um, I, I view the different ways that people do that. Um, you know, there's, there's reproduction. We have children, so then that, I think, uh, that eases people's mind about their mortality because they're, they have, uh, a legacy living on with their children that they, they won't really be dead. Then, of course, people turn to religion because they think everything's gonna be great when they go to heaven. And, and then there's people who leave stuff behind to outlive them, you know, like cavemen scrawling stick figures on the, on the cave. It, it, it seems that the- they were...... just like I described, really upset about their mortality and, and leaving this art on the cave walls to outlive them. Because I had failed in, in university the way, the way I did ... I mean, I failed every which way that you can, and every attempt that I had ever had to be employed ended in disaster. I was fired from literally every job that I ever had. So not being able to, uh, make it through school or keep a job, I felt absolutely just not qualified to navigate the world. I, I'd, I, I believed that I was going to fail at life, like badly and, and quickly. And, um, I think that this idea that, that I w- that I, I believed that I was just gonna fail at life and die very young, I think that it heightened my m- my mortality issues because even though, you know, I was, uh, I was young but, like, man, I think I was, uh, somehow, a- angry at, at the idea of, of death. And, and my theory is that I was, uh, I was lashing out at death by, by climbing off of balconies and, and just dangling fr- from my hands off, like, 12 stories and then letting go and dropping onto the balcony below. Like, that was totally life-threatening, especially how intoxicated I was while doing that. And, um, you know, I'd ... Like, like I said, I wanted that girl who dumped me to think I was gonna die. Like, there was this, this, this idea of mortality was, was very woven into all, all of, uh, the art. And so I think that I wa- I, I was, I was upset about mortality and, and lashing out at it. I was mocking death, taunting it.

Steven Bartlett 26:43 What? Why you? Because th- that is ... I understand at a certain level we all probably have that relationship with our mortality. But you s- seem to, more than anyone I've ever spoken to, have had a more close and adverse relationship with the concept of mortality, the concept of death. Like, you seem to ... The way, the way that I'd word it plainly is, like, you seem to have the biggest problem with death than, than an- anyone I've met.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 27:07 All right.

Steven Bartlett 27:08 Why?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 27:08 (laughs) Um, I think about it, and I've always thought about it.

Steven Bartlett 27:16 Since you were young?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 27:17 I'd say so. Yeah. I would, I would absolutely say that. I, I, I, I'd seem to recall

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 27:24 being quite young. I, I, I wouldn't know an age, but quite young and, and being in the bathtub just ... For some reason, I was thinking about, it's gonna be the year 2000. And, and, like, we weren't really anywhere near the year 2000, um, but just kind of doing math in my head, trying to calculate how old I would be at the turn of the millennium, and I, I came to, uh, 25. I'll be 25 years old, and, and the thought was, "I'll never live that long." (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 28:03 (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 28:04 (laughs) No, I'll never make it that long. That ... Um, an- and again, I don't know how old I was, but I was definitely a child when I had that thought. And, um, a- and, and the, the older I got, the more convinced I was an- that, that, um, I wasn't gonna live very long. A- and, and perhaps, you know, that's, you know, another manifestation of, of my alcoholism, but I think that, that ... I think that really ... To describe alcoh- alcoholism, there's, there's a ... Like, I felt defective, you know? I felt d- like there was just something wrong with me that, uh, things weren't gonna work, you know? And I think that that, that, to some extent, is, is a, a characteristic of alcoholism for a lot of alcoholics. Feel, like, just uncomfortable in your own skin. They describe it as restless, irritable, and discontented. Um, defective is a word that really resonates with me.

Steven Bartlett 29:20 Does that ... Does that ever subside?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 29:23 Ooh. That's a tough one because, um, I don't think so. I mean, to an extent, yeah. I, I, I'm definitely better with all that now, like, with ... But at the same time, it doesn't go away. I think that it, it, it im- im- it improves and, and, you know, fluctuates and ... But, um, what doesn't go away is this, this default setting I have that everything's not gonna be okay. You know, I live in this perpetual state of, of terrible anxiety and stress that just things are not

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 30:05 gonna be okay, and I've got to just hurry up and frantically work and hustle to try to make it so everything'll be okay.

Steven Bartlett 30:14 I'm not surprised to hear that because it is the story I've heard over and over and over and over again, Satya.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 30:20 Okay. Okay, good. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 30:21 You know what I mean?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 30:22 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 30:22 A- An- and it surprises me because when ... Before I started doing this podcast and having these conversations, I assumed that, you know, something, you know, have a certain upbringing, childhood, you're, you're programmed in a certain way, you go to therapy, and it's fixed.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 30:35 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 30:35 And it's actually been... I've, I've, I asked the question purely because I've never heard anyone say, uh, anything other than what you've said.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 30:42 Right.

Steven Bartlett 30:43 So, you know. And, and I think it's actually helpful because it helps people know that they're not, their, their efforts to heal in whatever context that they've tried to heal, um, doesn't make them inadequate. It makes them very much human that, you know, the way that we're, we're programmed and hardwired because of whatever reasons, (smacks lips) you know, it, it is, um, it is, it is not something that is easy or in many cases possible just a therapy away or it's a-

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 31:10 Right.

Steven Bartlett 31:10 ... prescription away. And I think that's makes people a lot of feel, people feel better.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 31:15 And, and what, what's crazy too is that I think a-a-and I'm fascinated that, that you said this is something that you've heard many times and, and you-

Steven Bartlett 31:25 I've never not heard it.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 31:26 Right. Um, a-and, and I would also guess that for all of the, the successful people that you've spoken with, that they would describe having been much more at peace, much, much more serenity, much more happiness before they were successful.

Steven Bartlett 31:45 Yeah. Yeah.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 31:47 A-and, um, a-and it's so counterintuitive to imagine that that's the case, but, um, there, there's one saying that I think really explains it to a degree, which is that... This is the saying. Um, a man who has nothing only has to worry about his next meal-

Steven Bartlett 32:12 Hmm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 32:12 ... but a man who has everything worries about his last meal.

Steven Bartlett 32:17 (laughs) Yes.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 32:19 And that, that messes me up, man. That messes me up big time because if you're just focused on the next meal, then you're in the moment, life's, you know, pretty, pretty simple. It's not too much of a task to, to accomplish finding your next meal. But once you've got your next meal covered, and then it's like, all right, and then I, I've, I've saved up some money. My, I, I'm good. My next meals are set for, for the next year. And, but then now you're thinking, "How long am I set for?"

Steven Bartlett 32:50 Hmm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 32:50 And once you start thinking, how long am I set for, then, then, then life gets really scary when, when... Because you're not in the moment and you're, you're future tripping and everything isn't gonna be okay, and then... And, and what's even crazier is that I understand that there's been studies about, um, financial security and it's people who have upwards of $10 million net worth who, who find themselves feeling considerably more financially insecure (laughs) than-

Steven Bartlett 33:32 Mm-hmm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 33:32 ... than anybody who has less. The more money you have, the more f- financially insecure you feel.

Steven Bartlett 33:40 Uh, the study that I read about this, it says that, um, they interviewed people all the way up the wealth income spectrum, and they asked them the question, how much money... How, um, how happy are you out of 10? And then they asked them the second question, which is how much money would you need to be 10 out of 10 happy? And all the way up the wealth spectrum, people said three times currently what they have now. So millionaires said they needed three million. (laughs) People with 10 million said they needed 30 to be a 10 out of 10 happiness, and people with 100K said they needed 300K, which speaks to this sort of, like, hedonic endless treadmill, um, in increasing anxiety.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 34:14 Right. A- and, and, um, also studies are pretty clear that, um, happiness will increase up to...

Steven Bartlett 34:25 Like a baseline is like 75K.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 34:27 Yes.

Steven Bartlett 34:27 Households-

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 34:28 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 34:28 Yeah.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 34:28 I think that that number's just going up with inflation.

Steven Bartlett 34:30 Yeah. (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 34:30 I understood it to be like 60,000.

Steven Bartlett 34:33 Yeah, yeah.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 34:33 60,000 a year and then you've got all of your needs met and then after that, more money doesn't really equate to more happiness.

Steven Bartlett 34:40 Mm-hmm. And also to your point about the, the panic of, like, losing it, I think that's a, an issue for people that came from nothing, predominantly. So if you've always had this financial security growing up and you're, you're, you're, you know, you were, I don't know, extremely wealthy or/and you've been wealthy, I think people tend to have less of a fear of going... of losing it all, and they also never seem to have the guilt. I sit here with people and they speak to this success guilt they have.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 35:08 Okay.

Steven Bartlett 35:08 And I hear that a lot. And it, it's typically people that have felt sleeping on a sofa that have the kind of... Even when they become successful, they feel like they don't deserve it to some degree. And I read that a little bit in your story, in your book.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 35:19 Right. Y- y- it's interesting because I, I grew up very privileged.

Steven Bartlett 35:25 Mm-hmm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 35:25 You know, my, my, uh-

Steven Bartlett 35:26 Oh, good.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 35:27 ... my, my father didn't grow up with privilege. A- as I said, he broke the mold

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 35:33 becoming a businessman, and he became... Like, my, my mom didn't marry a, a rich guy.

Steven Bartlett 35:39 Right.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 35:39 She, my mom married a motivated guy who, who became quite wealthy. Um, I had privilege guilt when I was a kid. I was, I was, like, quite ashamed of, um, of, of how wealthy my parents were. Per- And, and I don't understand why that is, but, um...

Steven Bartlett 36:06 In whose eyes? In-

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 36:07 Like, I, I, I was, I was, uh, self-conscious about, about, um, how my peers viewed me at school.

Steven Bartlett 36:14 Ah.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 36:14 Um, as I grew older, the, the homes that we lived in, each move to each, you know, represented a, a bigger house, you know, and it, it became kind of, a little bit obnoxious. But by the end, um... When, when I was, um, attending high school a-Um, here in London, I went to the American School in St. John's Wood. And I lived directly across the street from Regents Park, on Prince Albert Road-

Steven Bartlett 36:48 Oh, wow.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 36:49 ... in this... I mean, it was a- a just gaudy, obnoxiously huge house. And, um, I never wanted kids from school to see it. So, um, I, uh, y- you know, they, we would have the, like, overnights. When you're a kid, you just-

Steven Bartlett 37:06 Mm-hmm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 37:06 I wouldn't have kids spend the night at- at my house. I was always-

Steven Bartlett 37:10 That's crazy.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 37:10 ... overnight at- at someone else's house. And, um, for- for me to ride my skateboard to- to school, you know, t- took a certain amount of time, and if I ever, if I would oversleep, I would ride with my dad. My- my dad was chauffeur-driven to work, and- and he would, uh, r- be reading his newspaper in the back seat, and- and whenever I overslept and I had to ride with my dad, the chauffeur would pull up to the school a- and I, as I got out of the car, I would hug the chauffeur. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 37:44 (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 37:46 Yeah. Like, to try to create the impression that... 'cause I was just embarrassed my dad was in the back seat, like, uh, being chauffeured around. Uh, I- I don't know what that is. Um-

Steven Bartlett 37:56 It's wanting to fit in. It's every... I was the opposite-

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 37:58 Yeah. Okay.

Steven Bartlett 37:59 ... in every respect. No one came to my house, because-

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 38:02 Right.

Steven Bartlett 38:02 ... it was like, it was, the windows were smashed and the grass was six foot high. Um, so everything you described was me, but the opposite, for opposite reasons. Like, I would-

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 38:09 Right.

Steven Bartlett 38:09 ... I would pray that the traffic lights near our school would stop, go turn red, which meant that I could get out of the, like, this beat-up van we drove in, as far from school as possible. (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 38:19 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 38:20 Whereas you're hugging the chauffer. (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 38:24 (laughs) Right. And it's really interesting too. Like, I- I- I went to a super privileged school too. I mean, like, uh, I attended school with the son of the American ambassador to- to the UK. Like, I was like... My- my best friend was this kid Abdullah. His father was, like, a crazy, like, oil tycoon. A- and, uh, w- when I, when I, when I was in, f- for me, fifth and sixth grade, I was in London, England at that time too, same school. And my father was... I'm not even quite sure what his job position was but, but worked for Del Monte, the canned fruits.

Steven Bartlett 39:05 Yeah.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 39:05 And he had to, um, uh, y- you know, like the, all the pi... There was a pineapple factory in Kenya. Dad had, had to go visit this pineapple factory, I wanna say maybe once a year. And so, he planned the trip, his trip to the pineapple factory in Kenya to coincide with, uh, our- our spring break, the one week off from- from school, so that he could take the family on safari. And I have this crazy memory of coming out of the airport in Nairobi, being ushered into some chauffeur-driven car. I always remembered it as a- a stretch limo. My dad says, "No, we didn't have a..." But whatever. Ushered into a chauffeur-driven car out of the airport, and, um, and s- sitting in the back of this car, and these- these just... Uh, it was my first time seeing poverty, like real poverty, and these people were- were clawing at the windows, begging.

Steven Bartlett 40:14 Mm-hmm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 40:15 And I'm just sitting in this car and- and- and just thinking, "What did I ever do to deserve to be... Like, I'm not a good kid," you know? Like, "I- I'm just always in trouble. Like, I don't do..." Just like, again, feeling defective, you know? Like, and I was, I really wasn't a good kid. I mean, I was always in trouble. Everything was just a disaster with me. And here I am inside the car that's being clawed at by these people who are barely clothed, you know, and just clearly desperate. And, um, that, like, that was a- a moment where I felt genuinely guilty, you know? I had a priv- privilege guilt, you know? And that's diff- that- that's worse than success guilt because-

Steven Bartlett 41:00 Mm-hmm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 41:01 ... you know? And- and, again, I did everything wrong. I was always in trouble, got terrible grades, and my sister, who was, who is three and a half years older than me, she did everything right, got straight As, the- the- the... just did everything perfect. Somehow, uh, along the way, like, my, like, my sister, um, went into a- a low-earning career. She was a school teacher, which is notoriously underpaid, especially for how important of a job that is. Um, s- with s- sin- became a single mom with a special needs kid and- and low earning, and- and it, like... kind of struggles, you know? Like- like, life is hard for my sister. And- and, like, somehow me, the- the guy who just did everything wrong and then goes on to have this stupid career and- and everything just works out great for me. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 42:09 (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 42:09 So, when you said success guilt-

Steven Bartlett 42:11 Mm-hmm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 42:12 ... I feel that. I- I feel like, like, "What... Why..." You know? "Why did everything work out great for me and my sister's having a tough time?" And- and I struggle with that too. I actually, um, I, uh, I- I- I have a... I- I've always called it kind of survivor's guilt, but- but yeah, success guilt, same thing.

Steven Bartlett 42:37 Y- you, your mother, um, had a- a brain aneurysm in '98-

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 42:41 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 42:41 ... you said. Um, Jackass the pilot was in '99-

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 42:45 Yep.

Steven Bartlett 42:45 ... a year later.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 42:46 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 42:47 You describe how your mother was ill for, for roughly five years before she passed away, and

Steven Bartlett 42:51 she was, um, dis- disabled. You're very busy with Jackass at that time. How do you ... Do you deal ... Did you, did you cope with it? 'Cause it doesn't seem to me that there's any- anyone in your life really at that point, or any experience that's going to help you deal with the concept of grief and loss.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 43:07 Right.

Steven Bartlett 43:08 How, how did you cope with it, if you did at all?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 43:10 Um ... My parents divorced in 1991. I graduated from the American School here in London, the American School in London in St. John's Wood in 1992. I went off to the University of Miami. Um, the, uh ... Right around the time when I went to the University of Miami, my mom moved to Florida as well.

Steven Bartlett 43:36 Mm-hmm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 43:37 Then on that fateful day of October 10th, 1998, we received word that Mom had this br- brain aneurysm. My sister and I flew to Florida from New Mexico. My dad flew to Florida from England. We all congregated around this, this crisis with my mom. At one point, we went to a, a nearby restaurant just to get a meal. I went outside to smoke a cigarette, and my dad came outside and he initiated this conversation. He says, "I, I've been ... I want to tell you that I feel I've done a disservice to you by not supporting you in this path that you've chosen." My, my path to be a crazy famous stuntman. He said, uh, he said, "I chose a path that my father," you know, dad broke the mold becoming a businessman. The idea of that was pretty repugnant to his father. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 44:43 Mm-hmm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 44:44 And, and he said that his father had the sa- same conversation. "Y- you've already chose something that I would not have chosen for you, but you're clearly committed to it, and so I just want you to be the best and, and, you know, be the happiest, and I pledge to support you." And I'm thinking, "Man, like, it's tough, because I'm a loser," you know? Like, the whole thing going on with my mom was, it was just kind of prevalent, but this side conversation. Like, I just felt like, wow, you know, like, now Dad supports me and ... I, I, I, I just did- I didn't feel very, very hopeful, I don't think, at that time. But it put a lot of wind in my sails. So, the next year, I saw this advert on television for a show called Real TV where they were saying, "If you got- if you have video, home video footage that's crazy and you think that it, it ... we should have it on our show, then call this number." And so I called the number and sent them my videotape and they wanted it. And, uh, and Dad helped me negotiate the, the license deal with them. And, uh, and it was meaningful. You know? The ... This pursuit of becoming a crazy famous stuntman had made my father and I as far apart as, as, you know-

Steven Bartlett 46:09 Mm-hmm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 46:09 It really, really made us not ... our relationship suffer.

Steven Bartlett 46:14 Mm-hmm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 46:15 And then ultimately, it would bring us together. And today, my dad is 80 years old, been retired forever, but he's come out of retirement and I ... He's on my payroll. He, uh, manages, like, all kinds of, uh, business stuff for me, all of my insurance stuff, like ... And, um ... It's crazy. (laughs) It's insanity that, that, that ... You know, just again, what, what, what drove us so far apart brought us so close together.

Steven Bartlett 46:54 And that catalyst moment was your mother's brain aneurysm, really.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 46:57 It was.

Steven Bartlett 46:58 'Cause that, that conversation might not have happened and then ...

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 47:01 It, it, it was. And now, now you pointed to when Jackass toured. I wouldn't dis- ... Well, okay. Um, my sister and I both moved from New Mexico to Florida!

Steven Bartlett 47:19 To be with your mom.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 47:19 To be with my mom.

Steven Bartlett 47:20 Yeah.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 47:22 And my sister naturally assumed the role of, of caregiver for my mom, and, um, I, I got this opportunity to go, uh, be a circus clown on cruise ships, and it just made sense for me to do that, you know? Like, um, I think that my overall attitude in particular, like, even the going off to work on cruise ships and then with, you know, with, with Jackass, I don't think that I had any level of, like, guilt about it. I think that my, my attitude about pursuing my own career and to be, you know, with Jackass and everything else, my attitude was that rather than let this aneurysm destroy e- everything, that, that I've, I've really strongly wanted to get out there and really make something of myself and that that would be the way to honor my mom more, and, and make my mom proud that way.

Steven Bartlett 48:35 People don't, uh, uh, un- often appreciate how difficult it is for the, everybody around the individual that's, that's sick. And I've ha- again, I've learned that from doing this c- having this conversation about just how sort of debilitating and-... difficult it is for everyone around the individual, especially when they're-

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 48:51 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 48:51 ... in a situation where they've become disabled. And your mother's situation was, I mean, she, she, she couldn't move, f- from what I understood. She wasn't n- necessarily speaking.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 48:59 She was wheelchair-bound. She, uh, had to be lifted out of bed and into a wheelchair and, and back.

Steven Bartlett 49:07 And could she, sh- she could speak?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 49:09 She could speak, but there, there, it, it fluctuated how present she was, how aware she was. Um, one of the more aware moments, I said, "Mom, I'm gonna have a book written about my life." And she, uh, she said, "And who's gonna write this masterpiece?" (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 49:33 (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 49:34 You know, she was making fun of me, and it was funny. Like, uh, the last time that, um, that my mom ever laughed was, I, I came home, um, with the words shit and fuck tattooed on my knuckles. And, um, Mom was in the hospital at that point with a Do Not Resuscitate order on her bed, like this was, this was the end. Like, it was about a month before she passed, and, um, I, I, I walked into her hospital room and I just didn't... you know. It was just a tough situation. I didn't... And I just said, "Hey, Ma, like, check it out," and I held up my, my knuckles to her. And she'd, she'd, she looked at it and she said, "Shit, fuck, shit, fuck." And then she said, "My son is a shit fuck." And she k- like, she laughed and, and it was just the most beautiful... I thought it was just the most beautiful thing, like, uh, she was able to laugh and, you know. And, um... Yeah, it's tough, man. That whole thing's tough. And, and, and the, the toughest thing is, uh, just imagining w- when, uh, when I was struggling in the beginning, like, like, prior to her aneur- aneurysm, like, there were times when, uh, I'd show her one of my videos and say, "Ma, check it out." She says, "Oh, yeah. Well, th- that, that's great, but, like, how, how are... How is this ever going to, like, earn you anything?" (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 51:17 Mm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 51:17 You know? Like, she didn't ever seem to be, like, terribly concerned for my safety, of those shorter videos of, like, jumping off bridges and stuff. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 51:25 (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 51:25 Like, you know, doing stuff that was, like, really pretty dangerous and, and, uh, appeared to be life-threatening, and, and that never seemed to upset her.

Steven Bartlett 51:33 (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 51:34 What, what she was upset about was that, uh, that I'd, I was... I didn't have a pot to piss in. And she would say, "You don't have a pot to piss in. Like, how am I supposed to be impressed by this? Where's this ever gonna get-"

Steven Bartlett 51:47 (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 51:47 You know? "How's this ever gonna..." She would say, "Show me the money." (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 51:51 (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 51:53 You know? "Show me the money. Like, how is this gonna get you the money?" And, um, man, uh, like given that, that that was her position on it, and I think that, that she was, um, largely concerned with the appearance of things and, and, um, like less c- she wasn't e- ever... I never got the sense that she was worried for my safety-

Steven Bartlett 52:17 Mm-hmm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 52:17 ... on any level. I think that sh- what she was concerned with was how I reflected on her.

Steven Bartlett 52:23 Interesting.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 52:24 You know? Like, "My son's a loser. This is a bummer." You know? She was bummed that I was a loser, because that reflected badly on her, and, um, that's just, that's what was important to her, you know? There's nothing wrong with that. And, um-

Steven Bartlett 52:38 Is that why you want her... you'd like her to be able to see?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 52:40 God, yeah. Man, that's the toughest thing, to imagine if, uh, if we, if, if she... 'Cause she, she had been to rehab many times. She was in the program of recovery, but she just couldn't hang onto that, you know? She would always... She would just always end up drinking again. And, um, I think that what would, what would cause her to relapse was, was the, you know, trauma from the breakup with my dad, which is just a vicious cycle, because what broke her up with my dad was her drinking, and then the trauma from the, the divorce would make, you know... It's just a vicious cycle. But, um, had she gotten it, had she really, really grabbed onto it and not let go and been in recovery, and, and both of us, like, she woulda just gotten such a kick out of, like, being on, being on the red carpet at a big movie premiere, and she would just be letting me have it, making fun of me for the dumb shit I was doing in the movies. Like, we'd be laughing. So, that's one thing. My mom had, like, a sense of humor. She had a... She was cool, man. She was cool, and we would... We, we, we related to each other a lot.

Steven Bartlett 54:06 You, you were 29 N- November the 7th, she passes away.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 54:10 Correct.

Steven Bartlett 54:13 A mixture of emotions. I read in your book, um, in Professional Idiot, page 194, "The overwhelming

Steven Bartlett 54:20 emotion I felt afterward w- was, was relief."

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 54:22 Sure. Yeah. She, like... She doesn't... It... The, the suffering was over, you know? It was, it was merciful, like, th- there's nothing upsetting about my mom dying. It was... What was upsetting was the, the pain and the suffering that she had endured for the five years leading up to her death.

Steven Bartlett 54:44 Do you ever process that? We talk a lot on, uh, about... these days about grief, and we understand that grief is a thing, and I don't think we ever did before. Do you... Did you ever process that?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 54:57 If I did, it was years later in recovery and, and digesting the concepts in that book, Conversations with God. That was when I finally, uh... The, the, that, that was when I just developed the idea that mom wasn't alone. You know? That mom was, uh, she wasn't alone. She had like, th- that, uh, that was an experience that she had as God, and then somehow that just, that, it doesn't change anything, but it changes everything.

Steven Bartlett 55:43 Alone. Why, why the word alone? Why was that the concern?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 55:48 I mean, uh, just because the, I mean, it, it's, uh... Like on, on a, on a bigger level, like mom, mom's this one thing, you know? So, there's no such thing as alone.

Steven Bartlett 56:08 At the same time, Jackass starts taking off, right? So that's roughly-

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 56:11 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 56:11 ... around that time. Your fame goes through the roof.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 56:15 Yeah, well mom's aneurysm was 1998. I worked on cruise ships for six months of 1999. I worked in a circus at a flea market for six months in year 2000. And Jackass came out in October of year 2000. And then, yeah, everything.

Steven Bartlett 56:38 The movie comes out 2002.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 56:40 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 56:41 Um, you're 28 years old at that time. Your mother passes when you're 29 the next year. These two things have co- have, have almost happened at, at, at similar times. Your trajectory has started to skyrocket. Your mother has passed away. Lots to deal with, lots going on. Fame is this new thing in your life now, and attention, and-

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 56:58 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 56:58 ... as you said earlier, like, worrying about the next meal is maybe sometimes a better problem than worrying about the last.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 57:04 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 57:04 Um, this str- strikes me as, as a real difficult moment in your life. Um, I, I, the qu- from Professional Idiot, which I read, it said, "By, by mid-2007, I was practically living on diet Coke, booze, and nitrous."

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 57:19 Uh, not diet Coke. A diet of cocaine. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 57:22 Oh, cocaine. Fuck, I re- (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 57:25 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 57:26 There's a big difference. (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 57:28 I would say it was a diet of-

Steven Bartlett 57:30 Of Coke. (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 57:32 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 57:33 Big difference. Um, you were hallu-

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 57:35 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 57:36 ... hallucinating and hearing voices.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 57:37 Yeah, big time. It's called psychosis.

Steven Bartlett 57:41 Ah.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 57:41 And, and it's a fascinating, um, it's a fascinating thing that, um, there are so many different substances one can ingest that might bring about this phenomena of psychosis. Yet, there's so much similarity between the experiences people have with it, uh, even though they take so many different avenues to get there. And that's partially why I believe that psychosis, um, that there's, uh, sort of different compartments, maybe dimensions, and that, um, we're, in, in our, in our human experience, we're, uh, in a distinct compartment, uh, and that psychosis happens when you erode the, the barriers to the other compartments, other dimensions. And by doing that with, with chemical substances, um, we erode the barriers, kind of open ourselves up to energies from other dimensions. Um, you, you open yourself up to, like, all levels of it. So you can really let in demons, you know? Like, like demons being low level of frequency energy, and angels like being a higher level.

Steven Bartlett 59:27 Mm-hmm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 59:28 And by, uh, just consuming enough substances, I, I, I really believe that you erode the barriers, you open yourself up to all these energies and, um, in comes flooding demons and, and angels. And that, that's how I characterize my experiences with hallucinations. Um, all that stuff is, uh, demon activity with some angels mixed in.

Steven Bartlett 59:58 Um, I was reading about this thing called the rad email list-

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:00:01 Oh, yeah. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:00:02 ... where you sent an email to a lot of people, which I think ultimately, it sounds like one of the things that brought about an i- an intervention, but-

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:00:08 Right. It wasn't one email. It was more of a, uh,

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:00:14 stream, uh, uh, a barrage. I was inundating a list of 200, roughly 200 people, many of them very influential people in the, the entertainment industry, celebrities and agents, and just powerful people, uh, you know, media personalities. Um, and, and I was just inundating these 200 people with emails at all hours around the clock and, and effectively broadcasting my downward spiral in real time. And, and I would send, at times, really funny stuff, you know? At times, uh-... just deeply alarming stuff. I was, uh, you know, I, I was ... I knew that I, how out of control I, I was. And, but, but I, but I was just, I was rad. (laughs) I mean, I, I was out of my mind. I was out of my mind, and I was making that abundantly clear by, uh, sending vid- yo- YouTube had become a thing. YouTube started in 2005, so 2007, YouTube allowed me to make really disturbing videos and then email the links (laughs) to 200 people.

Steven Bartlett 1:01:41 If I was a fly on the wall in 2007 in your life, what would I have seen on an average day?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:01:47 In 2007, I was renting four apartments in one building. One of them, I just d- uh, demolished the walls and built a skate park (laughs) throughout the whole apartment. Um-

Steven Bartlett 1:02:07 With permission from the landlord?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:02:08 No, not at all.

Steven Bartlett 1:02:10 (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:02:10 N- no, no permission whatsoever and it was just with the, the, there, the, I, th- I remember there was like a Russian prostitute operation, um, in the adjacent apartment, so they weren't trying to complain about the noise. There was a stairwell, uh, on the other side and beneath was the, uh, the parking garage. So it was, um ... there, there were never any complaints for, for that. And then, um, a little bit down the hall was, uh, I had, um, couple of my buddies living there. One of, one of them was, uh, you know, edited stuff for me, but we very, very rarely ... well, I mean, he would-

Steven Bartlett 1:02:52 (laughs) He thinks he works hard. (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:02:54 Yeah, I mean, I, I had people like, uh, on salary and they, they, they didn't do too much. But when I was really out of my mind in these disturbing videos, that I wanted to email the links to the RAD email List, my editor guy was in charge of that. (laughs) Um, so yeah, I had the, the office, the skate park apartment, the office apartment, and then I had an apartment for the assistant. The assistant really didn't do anything, um, except (coughs) uh, explain to people that she couldn't get a hold of me-

Steven Bartlett 1:03:26 (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:03:27 ... and change my flights, uh, when, because I would always miss my flights. (laughs) Um, and then I had my apartment, which, uh, w- was, this is sort of a, this is where all, where all the really crazy stuff happened. That was, that was just my little drug den. And, um, I would, I would inhale this nitrous oxide stuff and, and it would come in these little cartridges that people use to make whipped cream and a box of these nitrous oxide cartridges would have, there would be 24 cartridges per box, but if you bought a case, there would be 25 boxes in the case. And I believe that 25 times 24 comes to 600. Um, and so I would sit down with 600 cartridges of nitrous oxide and just inhale, like, the, the, the thing that the cartridge goes into, this canister.

Steven Bartlett 1:04:33 The whoosh?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:04:33 Correct, yeah, but I'd have two of them.

Steven Bartlett 1:04:35 Oh.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:04:35 So I would, you know-

Steven Bartlett 1:04:37 Crack one.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:04:38 I would crack one open, fill that and inhale it. With my lungs filled with nitrous oxide, I would be busy filling up the next one (laughs) so that when I exhaled the nitrous from the first, I would then inhale just, so I wouldn't ... not breathe, I wa- I wasn't breathing air as like a ... I was breath- I was inhaling nitrous oxide to the exclusion of breathing air, I mean, as much as possible. And my, my goal at all times would be to lose consciousness because if you, um, you, you know, if you do that and you hold your breath, you, you will become unconscious and you're kind of twitching and, and flopping around and, and, uh, your lips are all blue and then, and then you come back to and, and it would, uh, it's not, (laughs) not healthy. Uh, and, and I would be doing that and I would be doing that for days on end while, um, snorting cocaine. So it was on, on, like, the second and particularly on the third day of being awake on a cocaine binge while inhaling nothing but nitrous oxide, um, that's when the, the most profound psychosis with all of the hallucinating would be going on.

Steven Bartlett 1:06:08 You sent out on that RAD email one time s- suicidal ideation.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:06:13 Yeah. I, I s- I, uh, I, um, I mean, I was going so crazy in this apartment and, um,

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:06:23 I, uh, very loud and, and, and, um, destructive in there and, and the, the next apartment over was, uh, a lawyer in his first year of, of being a lawyer. Uh, so, you know, like, um, a g- a guy who cared about work and I was just m- making all kinds of noise at all hours and so he was, he would call the police. He's getting ... "This is my neighbor, it's insane." You know, and, um, the more that the police would show up at my apartment, the angrier (laughs) I would get at the lawyer who was calling the police, which is a little bit backwards, and that was kind of my MO.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:11 Mm-hmm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:07:11 Like I would...... I would wrong people, and then I would resent them for their perfectly natural response to being wronged by me.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:21 (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:07:21 (laughs) So-

Steven Bartlett 1:07:22 At least you're honest. (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:07:25 (laughs) So, so, so I would, uh, you know, I would bang on the guys, or I would really antagonize this, this poor lawyer guy. And, um, at one point it, it got to, uh, to the level where pounding on the wall, I actually pounded a hole in the wall, and, um, it, I pounded a hole... You know, there's- on my side-

Steven Bartlett 1:07:49 Right.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:07:49 ... there's the-

Steven Bartlett 1:07:50 Has to.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:07:50 ... there's the, the, the drywall and then in between there's, like, the fiberglass stuff, and then, then there's his side of the wall. I actually, this one night, pounded all the way through his side of the wall too, so I was actually looking into his apartment, which of course constitutes vandalism. (laughs) So, when he called the cops this time, and the, the cops showed up, they had no choice but to actually arrest me for vandalism. They said, "Look, he put a hole in my wall." So, they, um, were here to arrest me, and I was, um, really, really, uh, out of it, um, uh, like having been snorting both cocaine and ketamine. So, I, I was super out of it and didn't put it together that I was being arrested and going to jail with a bag of cocaine in my pocket. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:08:44 (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:08:44 I mean, I probably could have. It would make sense that... And I remember it was funny too because they said that... I was barefoot and I had no shirt, and they said, "Well, we have to take you to jail. We have no choice, but we will let you go-

Steven Bartlett 1:08:56 Put a T-shirt on.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:08:56 ... put on a shirt and some shoes," which, which was the perfect opportunity for me to go into my apartment and remove the bag of cocaine from my pocket, but I didn't do that. And I said, you know, "Fuck a shirt. Fuck shoes." (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:09:13 (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:09:14 So, I went to jail completely barefoot and shirtless-

Steven Bartlett 1:09:18 (coughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:09:18 ... with, with a bag of cocaine in my pocket, and, um, and, and then when they, you know, when they process you into jail, they search, you know, your pockets.

Steven Bartlett 1:09:27 Mm-hmm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:09:27 They found the cocaine, and they arrested me again. So, I was now, I had a felony cocaine possession charge as well as the vandalism charge. And, and this was, like, pretty well publicized, the, you know, the fact of the cocaine-

Steven Bartlett 1:09:40 Mm-hmm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:09:40 ... and the, you know, the arrest. And, um, when I was released from the jail, I was in there for, like, uh, I wanna say, like, three days because the consensus among anybody who loved me was, "He's better off in jail." So, there was no concerted effort to bail me out, which is why I managed to stay in there for, I believe, th- about three days. And then when I finally did get released from the jail after the three days, and I returned to my apartment, there was an eviction notice on the door. So, my response to that was, "Oh, okay. Well, I'm being evicted," and I went into the apartment. I found more vials of ketamine that I had stashed in there, and I cooked that all up and, um, within a couple hours I was, like, screaming about God, like, while jumping up and down on a parked car and, like, dealing with more cops.

Steven Bartlett 1:10:41 (laughs) You were, you were manhandled into a psych ward, right? Like th-

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:10:44 Yeah. Yeah. Well, so I went on this, this, this prodigious final bender, and, and, uh, I was running out of time before I had to get my stuff out of the apartment, and I was evicted. So, the email to the RAD email list was, "Hey, I have to have my stuff out of this apartment because I've been evicted. But before I have to be gone I want to, uh, jump a motorcycle. I wanna ride a motorcycle through the living room and off a ramp and jump it over onto the building next door," which was a very, very small gap. (laughs) It, it was not... uh, it was hardly even a big stunt, and, and, and it was, like, two and a half stories up. Uh, I think I was on the third floor, but it was really, like, kinda two and a half, so maybe, like, 20, 25 feet? And, and I r- and I said on the RAD email list, "And I also- I wanna jump the motorcycle onto the roof next door, and I wanna jump out of the bedroom window into a hot tub." (laughs) You know? And I just said, "So, Knoxville, bring a camera crew and a hot tub, and if you can't do the hot tub, at least bring some cardboard boxes, but I'm jumping out of the window, and I'm jumping, you know? And if you don't come, I'm jumping out of the window anyway. I'm gonna jump, and I'm gonna find out how many bones break when I land on the sidewalk 25 feet below. I'm ready to die." (laughs) Uh, like, so I was, like, promising that I was gonna jump out of the window and, and break bones on the concrete below, and that qualified me for the psychiatric evaluation.

Steven Bartlett 1:12:29 And they, they staged an intervention?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:12:31 Yeah, they staged an intervention, yeah. And I said... And so Knoxville responded. I, I forget if he responded with all 200 people on copy-

Steven Bartlett 1:12:38 Oh, shit.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:12:39 ... but, uh, but I said this. I did this on the, the RAD email list with the 200 people, and, and, um, I said, uh, um, "If..." (laughs) Knoxville responded. He says, "Okay. I'll be there." You know? I said, "Be here at 10:00 AM. Be here at 10:00 AM, or I'm gonna jump." (laughs) And, and what his response was, he says, uh, "Can we do noon?"

Steven Bartlett 1:13:04 (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:13:04 "What's with the early call times? Sheesh." (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:13:08 (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:13:10 So, so we agreed on noon. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:13:13 (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:13:13 Yeah, I, I don't think he was concerned with the early call times. I think what he was concerned with was, like, having more time to, uh-

Steven Bartlett 1:13:19 To do it again.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:13:20 ... to rally, uh, you know, a, a group to really do the intervention. But, but by... In that email exchange, I, I was not scheduling a shoot for, you know-

Steven Bartlett 1:13:32 Mm-hmm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:13:33 ... for Jackass as I thought. I was actually scheduling my intervention.

Steven Bartlett 1:13:37 And that's really where your life seems to have started to take a new ch- ch- direction. Although not linear, in any respect, uh-

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:13:44 Well, I mean, uh, that, that, that intervention marked, uh, the beginning of my journey. I've been clean and sober since that day.

Steven Bartlett 1:13:54 Which is?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:13:55 The... I mean, the, the intervention-

Steven Bartlett 1:13:57 How many have you spoken to?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:13:57 ... was March 9th. The intervention was March 9th of 2009. Oh, wait, sorry. No.

Steven Bartlett 1:14:03 Eight.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:14:04 Yeah. March 9th of 2008. And s- we don't count that as our sobriety date because it's the first day you didn't get loaded is your sobriety date.

Steven Bartlett 1:14:15 Okay.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:14:15 So my, my sobriety date is March 10th of 2008.

Steven Bartlett 1:14:20 (paper rustles) Ladies and gentlemen, as you know, ZOE is now sponsoring this podcast, and I'm a proud investor in the company. And I've been going on the ZOE journey myself. It all starts with this home testing kit you get sent in the post which measures your gut health, your blood sugar, and your blood fat. I've had this little device, this blood sugar glucose sensor, on my arm, which came in the home testing kit, to understand how all of the different foods that I eat day-to-day have an impact on my body, and it's been pretty unbelievable. A big thing for me is feeling tired after I've eaten something and not understanding why. Historically, I didn't understand. Now I do understand. I'd been eating, I think it was, like, a rice stir-fry with a bit of chicken and some chili sauce in there, and I saw on my blood glucose chart on my phone, which is connected to the device that ZOE sent me, this huge spike. And then later in the day, I saw a huge dip when I started feeling that sort of post-lunch slump. And what will happen next is, Tim tells me they'll take all of that data and give me my own personalized ZOE scores for any food so I can figure out what I should be eating and what I should avoid if I want to avoid those afternoon slumps. And if you want to get started on your ZOE journey with me, use the code. We've got an exclusive code here, CEO10, for 10% off, and let me know how you get on when it arrives. Back to the episode. (paper rustles) Over 14 years sober?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:15:38 Over 15 now.

Steven Bartlett 1:15:39 Over 15 years sober?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:15:40 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:15:43 Congratulations.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:15:43 Dude, it's huge.

Steven Bartlett 1:15:44 That's amazing, honestly. That's incredible.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:15:46 It, it, it's so incredible. And I, I don't say that to, you know, to be, uh, self-important

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:15:52 or, you know, like, like douchey. It's just the most profound gift, like, ever. And, and I, and I, I believe strongly that, you know, that this conversation began with this dark discussion of alcoholism and, and, and how, uh, just how terrible and, and sad alcoholism is. However, as upsetting as alcoholism and drug addiction is, it's the only disease where once you treat it, you become a better version of yourself than you were before. And, and that's really incredible to me, because any other disease, the best you can hope for is to get back to as healthy as you were before you got sick. But for us sober alcoholics and addicts, like, we genuinely become improved versions of ourselves.

Steven Bartlett 1:16:58 And the work you've done since has been incredible. I mean, you've taken on many professional pursuits. Um, your standup comedy became a facet of your life in 2013.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:17:07 Uh, 2010.

Steven Bartlett 1:17:09 2010, okay.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:17:09 I had... The first time I had, um, gotten on stage in a comedy club and, and, uh, performed what, what I intended to be standup comedy was 2006.

Steven Bartlett 1:17:19 How did that go?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:17:21 Um, I thought it went a lot better than it actually did.

Steven Bartlett 1:17:24 (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:17:24 But, um, but the, the first time I ever got on that stage, it, it wasn't, it wasn't a disaster. It became a disaster later, um. But, but in 2010, once I'd been clean and sober for just over two years, I, I w- I pursued standup comedy in earnest.

Steven Bartlett 1:17:49 Why standup comedy? I know you've got a big tour coming up in the UK. But why standup comedy? I'm trying to understand the through line between the stunts and comedy.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:17:56 It's the, the, the through line is just attention-seeking. You know, um, the first time I ever got on

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:18:04 stage to perform in a comedy club, uh, there was... I- it was 2006. I believe it was August of 2006. And, um, o- our second Jackass movie was, um, to be released a couple months later. Showed up at this comedy club, I walked in, had no plan for what I was gonna do. And just observing what was happening on the stage with somebody standing there holding a microphone just speaking to the audience, um, I thought, "There's no stunt that could possibly be crazier than that." You know? Like, "I'm gonna do my, my, my... The craziest stunt that I could possibly do is no stunt at all. I'm gonna stand there and speak into a microphone and try to make the people laugh." This was genuinely the most terrifying concept. And I was just wasted enough to decide, "I'm gonna do that." When it became my turn to, to get on the stage, um, I had come up with one joke. As I got on the stage, there were people... They, they were aware of me. They were excited to see me. I felt, like, an excitement. Uh...They, they were there to have a good time. They were... They were-

Steven Bartlett 1:19:21 Mm-hmm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:19:21 ... rooting for me.

Steven Bartlett 1:19:23 Mm-hmm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:19:23 I mean, of course, like, get on stage, "Oh, Steve-O, rad?" They were th- I felt loved. I felt, uh, r- th- they were rooting for me. They wanted to have a good time.

Steven Bartlett 1:19:33 Terrified.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:19:33 I got, I got on st- I was terrified, but, but, uh, but it was, it was just, uh, it was... Man, it was, uh, it was electric, dude. And, um, you know, I s- I said, uh, "What do you know, what's up everybody? I'm in the mood for a blowjob. Does anybody want one?"

Steven Bartlett 1:19:51 (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:19:52 And, uh... And, and, and I got a laugh, you know? Like, they laughed, and I just was so happy about that. And, um, I couldn't have been on that stage for more than three minutes. Like, um, I got on and I got off. Just got out of there and it was a favorable experience, and I decided that this was something I wanted to pursue.

Steven Bartlett 1:20:12 And you've been pursuing it ever since. There's a, an awesome tour coming up in the UK from June 30th to July 14th, I believe? You called Bucket List?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:20:19 That's right. And, and-

Steven Bartlett 1:20:20 Which I'm coming to see.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:20:21 Oh, dude, I love that, man.

Steven Bartlett 1:20:22 Gonna make sure that that happens.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:20:23 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:20:23 So...

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:20:24 When, when I started doing standup in earnest in 2010, um, I imagined that I was... that I was trying to establish myself as a standup comedian, and that I was going to forge a career with, with speaking into a microphone. And, um, and, and I felt that, I felt that I was well-equipped to succeed in that endeavor because my life has been so just, uh, colorful. Like, the experience that I've had in my life, like, to, to, to, to mine my life experience for material-

Steven Bartlett 1:21:10 (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:21:11 ... for standup comedy, uh, it seemed very doable, you know? Like, I've got, I've got stuff to talk about.

Steven Bartlett 1:21:16 Yeah.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:21:16 So, I, I felt that I came into standup comedy not with just an advantage in that I had, um, an audience, a profile, but I, I just had interesting-

Steven Bartlett 1:21:27 Mm-hmm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:21:27 ... material to, you know-

Steven Bartlett 1:21:30 Hm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:21:31 ... to, to mine. And, um, clearly the world was not eager for the standup comedy of Steve-O. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:21:43 (laughs) Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:21:43 You know? I think that there, the bar for the stuff that I was known for... Like, to, to go from, like, the r- the, the, the shocking, like, unbelievable, like, crazy visual stuff that I'd become known for-

Steven Bartlett 1:22:01 Mm-hmm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:22:01 ... and then appear speaking into a microphone, it seems like a, a-

Steven Bartlett 1:22:07 Mismatch in expectation.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:22:09 Yeah. Like a-

Steven Bartlett 1:22:10 And that's always disappointment, isn't it?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:22:11 Right. Like, a- a- and, and maybe this is from my own perception-

Steven Bartlett 1:22:15 Sure.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:22:15 ... I'm not sure. But with all of the self-doubt, with all of the, um, you know, neg- negative self-talk, I just still persisted. And, um, I, I wasn't super successful in the beginning, and, like, uh, of course not, but I was successful enough to get booked by comedy clubs and then be welcomed back. And I would go around this comedy club circuit around the, the United States, and I did just well enough to go back around the loop. And that loop lasted for 11 years in comedy clubs. And, and, um, I, I tirelessly persisted. I, I, I genuinely did, and I put in work, and I developed this craft of storytelling and, and standup, telling jokes. Along the way, I taped two comedy specials. The first one was me and a microphone and, uh, some intermittent stunts I performed on stage throughout the act.

Steven Bartlett 1:23:25 Mm-hmm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:23:26 And as I put together what would become the next comedy special, I put together this, this new act to tour with. It occurred to me that the stories I was telling in this new act had, for the most part, all happened on camera.

Steven Bartlett 1:23:48 Mm-hmm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:23:48 And I had the idea, "Wow, what if, for my next comedy special, I, I perform the act, but in post-production I edit into the special interstitial footage of these stories unfolding?"

Steven Bartlett 1:24:04 Ah, love that.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:24:06 And so-

Steven Bartlett 1:24:06 There's depth to the storytelling.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:24:08 Oh, dude, it- my head exploded, I got so excited. I, I couldn't even, I couldn't even stand it. I was like, "Wow, like, I'm gonna have a m- my next comedy special's gonna be multimedia." Uh, that, that one I put out myself. Um, and, uh, and then it was time to put together the third show. So now, I knew that for this third show...

Steven Bartlett 1:24:33 Which is Bucket List.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:24:34 The Bucket List, correct. That I needed to film all new stuff, which would lend itself to all new standup material, and it had to be crazier than shit. It had to be crazier than ever.

Steven Bartlett 1:24:49 And that's what people will see if they go see it?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:24:50 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:24:50 Okay.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:24:51 For sure. Th- this, uh... They, there, there were just ideas that came up over the years that were, that were genuinely never supposed to happen on any level, but they were, they were just ideas that I was so fond of just 'cause they were crazy things to say.

Steven Bartlett 1:25:09 I can't wait-

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:25:09 The idea was to-

Steven Bartlett 1:25:10 ... to see it.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:25:10 ... push things further than Jackass ever could. And there's no way that you do that and there's not-... a, a story to tell. You know, there's-

Steven Bartlett 1:25:21 Well, yeah. (laughs) To say the least.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:25:22 ... like there's, like, the- the- the challenges of- of making these things happen, uh, it's just, th- there's a, it's i- inherently juicy material for standup. There's just no way around it. And- and one step further is that, um, I've worked so hard on, um, developing the ability to be in a healthy relationship with a life partner.

Steven Bartlett 1:25:52 So, I was just about to ask you.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:25:54 Right.

Steven Bartlett 1:25:54 This was my next question, which was about Lux.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:25:56 Right, my fiance, Lux. And- and the- the- The Bucket List show is every bit as much about these ultra-high-level jackass stunts and how they were conceived and executed. It's every bit as much about that as the implications of carrying out these bucket list items on my relationship with my fiance.

Steven Bartlett 1:26:24 What I was actually going to ask you about was specifically kind of the juxtaposition of what's making you successful here seems, to me, as a guy that's gotten into relationships, struggled to find relationships for my own reasons with my childhood, seems to be the antithesis, the very opposite of what it takes to be successful

Steven Bartlett 1:26:39 in a relationship, which is, like, the stability, the- the, I don't know, the- the- the calm, the-

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:26:45 Right.

Steven Bartlett 1:26:46 And over here, we're seeking instability. And here, in a relationship, there need, I- I don't know, there needs to be a certain stability that I think. How?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:26:54 Well, to derive one's self-worth and self-esteem from external validation, uh, the way that- that we do in show business, like, for- for- for me to base my self-worth and self-esteem on how successful I am as Steve-O, it just plainly presents a dark and upsetting future as the spotlight wanes, you know? Like, the-

Steven Bartlett 1:27:38 Mm-hmm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:27:39 ... the, a- an- and I can't, a- and this is something that- that became very clear to me 15 years ago when I got sober, was that for me to be happy and- and healthy on any level, it is of paramount importance that I find some separation between me and the persona of Steve-O. And, um, with that kind of ruminating in my mind, and- and as I was, when I got into the standup, like, I'd, I was acting out sexually as much as possible on the road while doing standup. And- and at that time, I was, um, in my late 30s, approaching 40, and- and it just occurred to me, "Man, this is not the- the-

Steven Bartlett 1:28:31 Mm-hmm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:28:31 ... the- the road to being happy." And, you know, "I gotta learn if I wanna be happy later in life, I need to learn how to have a healthy relationship." That was a- a belief that I subscribed to, and I got to work on learning how to be in a healthy relationship. And thank God I did because I'm terrified of being a washed-up, old attention whore that nobody wants to pay attention to anymore.

Steven Bartlett 1:29:01 And being alone.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:29:02 And being alone. That sounds like the most terrifying, like, awful thing. And so-

Steven Bartlett 1:29:09 What does it, what does she mean to you, Lux?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:29:11 I mean, she, you said something earlier that, uh, that- that the design for living in the 12 steps, and this isn't my, you know, kind of extrapolating on what you said. You said that the principles of honesty, open-mindedness, and willingness are helpful to all people. And I'll take that a step further that the design for living outlined in the 12 steps is something that you don't have to be an alcoholic or an addict to benefit from. But what Lux is as a person is somebody who automatically does that stuff, (laughs) you know? She's automatically honest, you know? She's automatically, like, open, willing, like- like, she's automatically does the right thing, you know? Where I had to- to really, really work and train myself to be honest and to do the right thing, (laughs) you know? And, uh, you know, she's just automatic, it's just automatic to her. And- and Lux's capacity for love is so staggering. Like, her, it's just so natural to her to- to be loving, and- and, uh, it- it blows me away. We both, like, with animals, we're out of our minds we love animals so much. And, um, God, the way that Lux loves me and the way that she wants me to love her, like, just, uh, no, no, no, whole, like... The way that we, like, hold each other, the way that, like, she's- she's- she's taught me to love. She's- she's increased my capacity to love and- and that's- that's the biggest deal, man. It's- it's massive.

Steven Bartlett 1:31:11 Such a beautiful thing. Steve-O, thank you so... Steve-O? Stephen.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:31:14 Yeah, Stephen.

Steven Bartlett 1:31:14 Thank you so much. Um, we- we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:31:20 Okay.

Steven Bartlett 1:31:20 Um-... and the question that's been left for you is one of the most interesting questions that's ever been left, in fact.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:31:25 Sure.

Steven Bartlett 1:31:25 They don't know who they're leaving it for.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:31:26 Good.

Steven Bartlett 1:31:27 So it's, uh, totalmente. They said, "What can Stephen-"

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:31:31 So you filled in the blank?

Steven Bartlett 1:31:33 No, no, no, no. They literally wrote, "What can Stephen," w- and they're talking about me.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:31:36 Ah, okay.

Steven Bartlett 1:31:37 But even if they spelled... They spelled it with your name, with a P-H. They said, "What can Stephen, this beautiful man, improve about himself?"

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:31:45 So, so that's my que- what can I-

Steven Bartlett 1:31:46 Yeah.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:31:46 ... improve about myself?

Steven Bartlett 1:31:47 No, it's th- they're asking you to tell me what I can improve about myself.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:31:51 Ah, okay.

Steven Bartlett 1:31:51 'Cause they didn't know you were called Stephen, so they said, "What can Stephen, this beautiful man, improve about himself?" Honesty.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:31:59 E- You didn't speak about yourself very much but-

Steven Bartlett 1:32:04 (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:32:04 ... but one thing that you did say, um, you seemed to point to the deficiency in your relationship with your girlfriend-

Steven Bartlett 1:32:17 Mm-hmm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:32:17 ... being that you're so consumed with work.

Steven Bartlett 1:32:21 Mm-hmm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:32:21 And, uh, s- that you said something about she wants quality time. You can't compensate for your, uh, you know, all of your energy and time going into your career, and that you wanna compensate by with material things and, and th- but that she has no, no interest in material things. She wants quality time.

Steven Bartlett 1:32:42 Mm-hmm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:32:43 And, um, I think that, uh, that you and I both, um, have this, uh, this drive, this, this, this hustle, this, this urge to succeed, and, um, I think that, uh, that, that both of us would do well to find our success in our relationships. Every study about, about longevity and health and happiness 100% points to relationships as the source of happy... True happiness and true health comes from the quality of our relationships, not the numbers in our bank account, but the quality in our relationships. So, um, I think that the, the... my answer for you is the s- same for me-

Steven Bartlett 1:33:44 You nailed it.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:33:44 ... it's just that, uh, you know, that w- we should put the emphasis on our quality time in our relationships that we do on our hustle. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:33:59 And it's, and it's... The, the reason why I, I don't is because I think of some of the stuff that I said earlier about, like, where I came from and being a poor family and all that. So, like, my survival innately in me, or my validation comes from my work. So I'm, like, being pulled by this, like, insecurity and this shame-

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:34:16 Right.

Steven Bartlett 1:34:16 ... from my childhood over here, like, "Become fucking... Become everything that you weren't," and, you know... And then on the other hand, my sense goes, "Well, Steve, the happiest times in your life, the, the..." All the studies... I've sat here with the guy that did that 95-year-old study on, um, men and found that they live things like 14 years longer if they have a meaningful relationship. I know logically. (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:34:35 Right.

Steven Bartlett 1:34:35 But then emotionally and the scar, the scar tissue in me goes, "No, you need back... to validate yourself," right? I'm being dragged by that still to, to, you know...

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:34:44 Right, and hustle, but, but not in a way that, that undermines or, or detracts from the quality of the relationships.

Steven Bartlett 1:34:56 Is that... That's what you're doing? (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:35:00 I mean, if, like, uh-

Steven Bartlett 1:35:02 Weird.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:35:02 I mean, yeah, shit. L- Lux and I have a rule that, that we, we, we're not to be apart for more than two weeks.

Steven Bartlett 1:35:09 I love that.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:35:10 And, and-

Steven Bartlett 1:35:11 (laughs)

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:35:11 ... we spent two days together over the course of six weeks. We broke our rule badly.

Steven Bartlett 1:35:18 Mm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:35:18 And that's not cool, man.

Steven Bartlett 1:35:19 Sucks.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:35:20 Yeah. So, um, if I wasn't so... you know, so, so... Operating from fear, that's the, that's the, the difference.

Steven Bartlett 1:35:33 Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:35:34 Hustle because you love it-

Steven Bartlett 1:35:35 Not because you're, uh, yeah.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:35:36 ... not because you're afraid of the post-apocalyptic thing, (laughs) you know?

Steven Bartlett 1:35:39 Yeah. Yeah. And there's this concept I've been toying with a lot on this podcast between the distinction between being driven and being dragged, and sometimes I'm being dragged.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:35:46 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:35:46 Driven is the, like, intentional... sounds like, you know, kind of the, the intentional hustle with control over the hustle. Dragged is, like, fucking fear, like, "If I don't-"

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:35:54 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:35:55 "... fit, then I'm not enough," and-

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:35:56 Right.

Steven Bartlett 1:35:57 I've taken so much of your time, Stephen.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:35:58 I did. All good, man.

Steven Bartlett 1:35:59 Thank you so much. Really, really appreciate it. A pleasure to meet you, and I've learned so much. Incredibly surprising, wisdom-filled conversation that graced so many different aspects. Um, I'm so excited to see Bucket List. I'm sure all of my audience are as well. The 13th is the date to be there, right?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:36:12 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:36:12 Hack The Empire?

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:36:13 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:36:13 That's where I'll be. I'm looking forward to it.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:36:15 Hey, hey, but I think that we might be able to open up some tickets on the 14th.

Steven Bartlett 1:36:19 Okay.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:36:20 Um, but, but I don't know and I don't know how many. I just know that a- as I sit here now-

Steven Bartlett 1:36:26 Mm-hmm.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:36:26 ... the, the, the show on the 13th just went live.

Steven Bartlett 1:36:30 Okay.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:36:30 So that's, that's a whole show that I gotta fill.

Steven Bartlett 1:36:32 So link is in the description below to get tickets, in the YouTube description and on the audio apps. It's in the description below. And I hope to see you guys there. Thank you so much, Stephen.

Steve-O (Stephen Gilchrist Glover) 1:36:41 Dave, thank you, bro.

Steven Bartlett 1:36:44 Appreciate it. (instrumental music) A quick word on Huel. As you know, they're a sponsor of this podcast, and I'm an investor in the company. One of the things I've never really explained is how I came to have a relationship with Huel. One day in the office many years ago, a guy walked past called Michael, and he was wearing a Huel T-shirt, and I was really compelled by the logo. I just thought from a, a design aesthetic point of view, it was really interesting. And I asked him what that word meant and why he was wearing that T-shirt. And he said, "It's this brand called Huel, and they make food that is nutritionally complete and very, very convenient and has the planet in mind." And he, the next day, dropped off a little bottle of Huel on my desk. And from that day onwards, I completely got it, because I'm someone that cares tremendously about having a n- nutritionally complete diet. But sometimes, because of the way my life is, that falls by the wayside. So if there was a really convenient, reliable, trustworthy way for me to be nutritionally complete in an affordable way, I was all ears, especially if it's