The Diary of a CEOTerry Crews Breaks Down About His Sexual Abuse & Beating Up His Dad!
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
145 min read · 28,672 words- 0:00 – 1:24
Intro
- SBSteven Bartlett
Could you do me a quick favor if you're listening to this? Please hit the follow or subscribe button. It helps more than you know, and we invite subscribers in every month to watch the show in person.
- TCTerry Crews
My desire to be strong was because I knew one day I may have to kill my father. Athlete, artist, actor, Terry Crews. (upbeat music) That's right, I've always wanted to be a superhero. One of my earliest memories was my father knocking my mother out. She'd be nursing a black eye, and I would just dance in front of her, and she'd just start cracking up. In the middle of all that pain, I saw the ability to make her laugh. Pornography numbed my pain. I had this addiction for the longest time.
- SBSteven Bartlett
How did it impact your marriage?
- TCTerry Crews
She said I was different. I damaged my family. I damaged my wife. You gotta own up to it. You have to do what's within your power to make things right. One thing I, that, that changed for me is I stopped competing with people, and I said, "Don't try to be the best. Be the only."
- SBSteven Bartlett
So without further ado, I'm Steven Bartlett, and this is The Diary of a CEO USA Edition. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. (upbeat music)
- 1:24 – 7:43
What made you the person you are today?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Terry, I, I always start these conversations in a very similar way, but ha- having read your new book, Tough, I feel like it's never been more relevant what I'm about to say. Reading through your, your new book, especially in the first chapter, it becomes so blatantly clear how our early context shapes who we become in many ways.
- TCTerry Crews
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And there's never been a more glaring example of that. So, I feel like that has to be the place we start. Can you tell me about that context in which you were raised?
- TCTerry Crews
Wow. Uh, first and foremost, um, I was raised in, um, Flint, Michigan, in, uh, I was born in 1968. And, and I just wanna give some context in, the fact that Flint, Michigan was the Palo Alto of the United States. When I, what I mean by that is General Motors was the most successful corporation in the world, and, you know, there were opportunities, there were money, there was homes, and people were doing very, very well, and the city was growing and, and blossoming. And my father was a foreman at Buick, um, during this time. He, he was this poor kid who moved up from Edison, Georgia, of, a town of less than 300 people, and moved, and went up north to find, to work in the factory, and became a foreman. And, uh, my mother was a housewife, um, and she was raised, born and raised in Flint. My mom had got pregnant with me before they were married, and they shortly, soon, you know, soon after got married, and what was so wild about that is that amongst all this, you know, kinda opportunity, my father was very, very abusive. And, you know, one of my earliest memories around, you know, the time I was about four or five years old was my father knocking my mother out. Um, and what was really crazy, you know, he was an alcoholic. Um, and here, here you have a man who came from... He really never shared his past with me. I had to actually find out a lot about his past later on in my adult years. Um, but I never really understood him, um, and he never really volunteered any information. And then my mother, however, was very religious. Um, she grew up in the Church of God in Christ, which was what you would call the Holiness Movement, and it was, you know, the term was Holy Rollers. And, you know, she couldn't wear makeup. She could, she wore her dresses down to her ankles. Uh, we were not allowed to go to the movies, not allowed to, uh, listen to secular music, not allowed to play sports. Uh, basically everything that I ended up doing in my life, I was not allowed to do. Um, and it was, we were in church probably six days out of a seven-day week. So, it was unindicted with religion, um, a lot of guilt, a lot of shame, a lot of, um, you know, God's gonna get you (laughs) you know, if you don't... You know, this is the way they felt they needed to keep you in line. So, there was a very toxic mix in my household, because here, you know, my father was an alcoholic and my mother's religious, and so they always went at each other, because you weren't allowed to do what my father was doing. And my mother was always challenging him and yelling at him about it, and he would go off, and, and I just wanted peace, man. It was just violent. You know, I actually wet the bed until I was 14 years old because there was not a peaceful night. You know, I would wake up to screaming, wake up to glass breaking, shouting. My fa- one time I woke up, my father was bleeding. My mother had stabbed him, and the police came. And then that day, it was like, you know, there was no such thing as domestic violence, just like there was no such thing as alcoholism, you know? It was just he can't handle his liquor. Uh, I was kinda saved by my high school because it was, it was a special school that allowed you to come because you had certain talents. And it was from seventh grade all the way to my senior year. Um, and I had art ability. And one thing about being in this religious household is that I had a really vibrant imagination because we couldn't do anything else. So, I would go to school and people would tell me about movies they saw and things that they were listening to and all this stuff, so then I would go home and draw it.... so, because I wanted to watch it so bad and be there so bad, and so I would start drawing, and I remember, you know, one thing my mom did let me do was comic books, and so I would copy the comic books and the heroes, and they had muscles, and I was like, "One day I'm gonna be like that." And, um, but I also found out, which was so wild, a little bit later, even in therapy, was just that I found that a lot of my- my desire to be strong was because I knew one day I may have to kill my father, because he was just that person. And it was intense, man. It- I- I gotta say, it was a very, very intense upbringing, um, and I became this person who just wanted to keep the peace, because there was- I just- anything to keep the peace, I became what you would call a pleaser. Like, "Mom, what do you need to do? I'll be a good boy, I promise. I'll- I'll- I'll sing in the church, I'll sing in the choir." And then my father would come home, it was like, "What? Do you want another beer? Whatever you want." You know, "I'll just make sure you- you- you don't get angry." You know? And it was just about, I was- I was exhausted, you know, and I remember just being that tired. Um, and it was- it was a lot of work, because I l- I lost all my, like, who I was. Um, it was dependent on who was around, and I was all of a sudden be what they wanted me to be.
- 7:43 – 12:36
Domestic violence in your family
- TCTerry Crews
Um...
- SBSteven Bartlett
Did you ever try and intervene when your parents were having conflict? Did you ever try and intervene at a young age?
- TCTerry Crews
Uh, I've ... He was too big. I mean, it was one of those things where I felt helpless. I felt 100%, like, I was so small, and you just look at it ... I have to say, my father, you know, even to this day, you know, we call him Big Terry. He was always Big Terry and I was Little Terry, and this is how we refer- referred to each other all over the house. And my- my older brother is my half-brother, so he was smaller than me, and we were just- I just always felt tiny. I remember just looking at his hands, and they were big, giant, calloused hands, and the way he'd walk around the house, you'd just hear boom, boom, boom, you know. It was a drama, you know? It was- it was like, "Man, this man could rip me apart." And I had a desire to get strong. I knew I had to protect ... one day, would have to protect my mom, protect my family, because I remember the nightly news, and they would always tell you all the horror stories, you know, "So-and-so kills his whole family." You know? I was always looking at the TV and I would- and I would say, you know, "I think my father could do that." I mean, these are not the thoughts a seven-year-old should be having, but I remember thinking, "I wonder if he got mad enough, would he h- kill us all?" You know? And i- i- 'cause the rage would just flip. And my father was two people. It was, um, he would be sober on his way to work, and then he would come home, and when that car pulled up, he was- he would usually go to the bar first, and he was a different person. He was sad, he was crying, he was angry. He would be listening to old soul music on the record player and ... This is one of my memories I even put in a book, was just, I remember looking at him, and I looked at my father and I was- I really felt sorry for him. I just remember he'd been coming home and he's disheveled, he'd been drinking, and he had- the pocket protector was all messed up, shirt was all undone. He used to have short-sleeved shirts with a tie, and the tie was off and everything, and he's just sitting there and he's got a beer in his hand, and- and he'd just be sitting there and he just looked so sad. And I just- I walked over to him and I kissed him on the cheek, and he looked at me like I had an eye in the middle of my forehead. He looked at me with such disdain and contempt, and I said, "I'll never do that again." It was like, oh man. Oh ... And I felt like he looked at me like I- it was the worst thing I could've ever done. And I said, "Okay, that's it." Like, "We- we are clear. Y- you and I, we're clear. We know- I know never to cr- to cross that, you know, cross that line ever again." I never forgot that. I mean, even talking about it now, it just- it- it shook me to my core, 'cause I expected love and, "Oh man, that's my son," and it was disdain. Um, he didn't know. He didn't know how to do it. And so, that's what it was. In my whole young life, I knew I had to get out, because I didn't want to be a part of this super hyper-religious world. There were so many things I wanted to do. I had a lot of dreams. I had a lot of goals. Um, and one thing what was crazy is that my mother loved entertainment. She loved it. We used to sit around and watch the Carol Burnett Show together as a family every Saturday night, and I remember watching her laugh, like, looking at what made her laugh, what was gonna ... And she'd crack up at Carol Burnett, and I said, "One day, that's me. Like, I'm gonna make her laugh like that." So I would do things around the house, and I remember her- she'd be nursing a black eye that my father gave her, and she'd have, like, some frozen peas on her face, and I would just dance in front of her and she'd just start cracking up. And, uh, in the middle of all that pain, I saw the ability that I had to make her laugh during all that, and I said, "This is a power."... the, in the middle of this kind of pain that she's just, she's literally in tears, laughing at her son, you know?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- TCTerry Crews
And I said, "Okay, this is how I'm gonna get by this." B- again, to please her. Just-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- TCTerry Crews
... make everything better. This is gonna cool everything out, right? And that was, that was most of my existence as a li- as a little boy growing up in Flint, Michigan. That's the context.
- 12:36 – 16:48
Where did your dad's pain come from?
- TCTerry Crews
- SBSteven Bartlett
Did you ever find out where that pain you saw in your father originated from?
- TCTerry Crews
I did. I did. Um, and you know what, this is crazy. I only found this out literally at like a year ago, which is nuts 'cause he would never answer me. I've, there's so many things I never ever, uh, he never answered. I wou- I asked, but they, uh, no big deal, you know? And I did a show with Henry Louis Gates called Finding Your Roots, and he went into my family's past, and I found out that my grandfather, he abandoned his family. So, he abandoned my father, and my father had a older brother, a younger sister, and my grandmother had been abandoned by him. Now, I knew my grandmother, but again, you, you're talking about in Black culture in America, a lot of these things were just too painful to talk about. M- no one ever ... You could ask, but you'd get a nod. You'd get, "Go play. Don't worry about it." Um, and no one would talk. But he found out that my grandfather had abandoned the family, and he was, basically had robbed a liquor store and was on a chain gang in Georgia, which is probably one of the most brutal, uh, punishments you could get at the time in America at the time.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What's a chain gang?
- TCTerry Crews
A chain gang is when they would make you build a highway.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Ah.
- TCTerry Crews
Um, they would take prison populations, chain them together, and they would be the ones that would be clearing out forests, um, clearing out paths with, with, um, stakes and shovels, and, and it'd be back-breaking work all day long in 100-degree heat. And he did that for about two years, but this was the strange ... This was where the pain comes from. My uncle told me that they had to, they took the school bus to school, and they had to pass the chain gang where his dad was and where they knew their dad was working. And this was so traumatic for them because they didn't want people to find out. Um, they would visit him in jail, but it was, you know, off and on, and he would act like he didn't wanna see 'em. It was really, really just painful. And, uh, he got out, and he did a couple more things and ended up in jail again. Um, and finally, he died, you know, of epileptic seizure when my father was 17 years old. And you're talking about never really want- h- my father never felt wanted, never felt... He was his blood son, but it just was, and he, uh, y- you know, it was a pauper's grave. Um, there's a headstone that's cracked right now. It's like, it's not even a headstone. It's kind of like a, just a block with his name on it, Edward Cruise. And it's broken in half, and I, I plan on putting a proper headstone on that sometime this year. But it's, I started to understand, I started to understand that pain, and it drove my father to drink at a young age. Um, and, you know, one thing, uh, that we do as men is that we, we, we tend to, to numb, numb ourselves, because, you, you know, this is a part of, w- you feel like you're being tough. You feel like you're being strong. Like, "Okay, I don't feel that pain." You know? "I can't show that pain. I can't..." And drinking is a big, big way of numbing your pain. For me, it was pornography. Pornography numbed my pain. Um, and, like, I never, I still to this day, I've never been drunk. I've never been high. I don't, I don't do that. But pornography was something that took
- 16:48 – 22:43
My pornography addiction
- TCTerry Crews
me out in many, many ways.
- SBSteven Bartlett
When did that come into your life, pornography? When was the first time?
- TCTerry Crews
Oh, man. I'd first discovered porn at about nine, ten years old. I was over my uncle's house, and he had a chest full of pornography. Um, and this is the thing, you know, it's funny because, uh, uh, you know, people have said, "Well, you know, yeah. Th- there's nothing wrong with pornography, you know, with adults and the whole thing." But the problem is, is that, you know, you never find it as an adult.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(sighs)
- TCTerry Crews
I don't know anybody-
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- TCTerry Crews
... who found pornography as an adult. Uh, you always find it as a child. It's everywhere. And I've, uh, it's funny because I've been told, "Hey, man, you know, just mind your business. It's all good. You know, e- e- keep to yourself. I- it, that's your issue." But porn never keeps itself to itself.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(chuckles)
- TCTerry Crews
Um, I get texts today, I get texts now. People texted me, uh, some of these, like, uh, phishing, and they text you porn and text you, "Hot girls in your area now." And you're like, "I didn't ask for this."
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- TCTerry Crews
You know what I mean?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- TCTerry Crews
But you start to realize that they know what they're doing. They know if they can get a hook, and they know if they can get it in you, and they know if they can get it in you young. And this was the thing that, uh, attracted me to porn, is that you would, I would open up the magazines, and they would have comics in 'em.... and the comics and different things. They would have subjects like Goldilocks and, you know, and Snow White and all these story. A Jack and Jill, you know. And you start to realize, "Wow, this is really..." And I, like, uh, this is stuff I realized as an adult that this is, um, this is, this is wired. It, it, they're wired to get you young. You know what I mean? And to stay in there because they know it'll never go away, you know? And that was what attracted me. I wa- And again, I didn't even know what sex was, but man, all I knew is when I opened that magazine and saw those ladies in that magazine and how beautiful they were, all my problems were gone. Like, it was numb. Like, I didn't know anything about violence, about where I was. It was just like, it was, I could zone away and every problem was disappear and I had to have it. Like, when things got stressful and never, I, I'll never forget, uh, 'cause y- again, and here's another thing 'cause you're in a religious household so you know you're doing wrong, you know? It was like, "Oh, that's bad." You know? But this was also a time when pornography was in the grocery store and it wasn't seen as something. It was just kinda like, there we go, and I remember telling my mom, "I'm gonna go in the store and get some milk," and I remember just grabbing one of those magazines and I couldn't stop until she bumped. She's like, "Hey, what are you doing?" And I would just, she would take me out of this numbing experience that I was having, and I'm standing there in the store and I told her I was getting some milk and there I was. She's like, "I was waiting for you for a half hour. What are you doing?" But I was stuck. And that's that kinda power that was on me. Like, and I, I had this addiction for the longest time.
- SBSteven Bartlett
How long?
- TCTerry Crews
All my, all the way up until 2010.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Wow.
- TCTerry Crews
From the whole life, from nine-t- from literally from the time I was about 10 to all the way up to about 12 years ago.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And when you say addiction, a lot of people might not know what that means. A lot of people-
- TCTerry Crews
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... might think that means watching porn from now e- now and then or looking at a magazine now and then. What does, what did that mean in reality? What was the... Have you got an example of how bad it got for you?
- TCTerry Crews
Yes. Um, first of all, it was, it was, I got a day off from the set so I'm, uh, usually on location and I could watch porn from, uh, probably 10 o'clock after my workout, 10:00 AM to 11:00 PM at night.
- SBSteven Bartlett
10:00 AM to 11:00 PM at night.
- TCTerry Crews
It wouldn't stop. And I couldn't stop. And then I would go from one to the next, to the next, to the next, and it was j- And, and the fact that I knew that no- I was in a different place and no one would know me and no one cared, I could indulge and just... It, it was a, it was what you would call, um, a splurge. Like, it, it just couldn't stop. I couldn't... When day turns into night and you're still watching, I knew I had a problem. I knew I had a problem. And, and when you tell yourself, you d- not the, like, "I'm not gonna do this anymore," and then you go right back, because what, what was happening I found is... You know, with the porn, it was like I needed, I, I would say, "Okay, I'm done with that," whatever, and I would feel guilty. But with guilt comes shame. And with the shame, shame says, and shame doesn't say you does, you've done something bad. Shame says you are bad. Like, you, this is who you are. You're just bad. So what you would do is do a bunch of good things, and you would just work hard and, and I go good for like three, four days and m- and then you need a reward. And what is that reward because you did so good? Porn. And so you go back in and the cycle starts all over again. And I found it would just keep going on and on and on.
- 22:43 – 26:14
How did porn impact your marriage?
- TCTerry Crews
- SBSteven Bartlett
How did it impact your marriage? 'Cause you got married in 1989.
- TCTerry Crews
Yes. Listen, it... First of all, I got married in 19-, uh, in 1989 to the most beautiful woman on Earth, and Rebecca, I met her, she's from Gary, Indiana. We met in col- um, actually met in church which was wild because I vowed I wasn't gonna be religious but what was wild is that I couldn't get away from the things I felt and the things I was used to. Um, and so I went to church and met her and she was on the piano and she was the, the church leader, the, the worship leader. And she had a child just like my mom had a child, and, uh, it was a little girl and she was only six months old and we got married when she was two. And this was the thing. I thought that once I got married the porn would go away. I said, "Man, I got a real woman now. Oh, I don't have to tell her about anything. We just gonna... You know, it was a phase. I'm gonna be out of it. It's gonna be great." And then the first argument, the first, "Well, do you feel like it?" "No, I don't feel like it tonight." "Okay, I'll be right back."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Oh, the first sexual conflict.
- TCTerry Crews
Correct. "I'll, I'm going out to get pornography." Um, and I thought it would free, I thought it was gonna be my answer to what it was but I realized-... it didn't, and I decided that was going to be my secret. And then you develop a thing where you think, if you're in secret, everybody's in secret. Like, I'm sure, you know, this is just the way everybody is. You know? It wasn't until I got into therapy that I realized, they said, "No, no, not everybody's like that, Terry." I was like, "Wait, wait, what, what do you mean? Like, you don't do that?" (laughs) You know?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- TCTerry Crews
It was a surprise to me. Um, but it was no different than any other thing that would numb you, be it alcohol, be it drugs. And this is the thing too, um, you know, what, what I learned, what I thought was awesome was the 12 Step program. T- 12 Steps pr- m- it w- it w- it was really established by Alcoholics Anonymous, but it works for basically a lot of different addictions. I mean, and the, you know, starting with the Serenity Prayer, which is, you know, God help me accept the things that I cannot change, and the, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Well, the thing was, is that I, what I had got backward in my whole life was that I was trying to change things I couldn't change, at all. And the things that I could, I felt I was powerless. So if you have those things backwards, it's not wisdom. You know? And what was so cr- unbelievable to me, I, I just remember, 'cause the, the wake-up call of all wake-up calls was what we called D-Day around our house.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- TCTerry Crews
And it was February 2010, and my wife, uh, was basically, you know, over the years, she was always suspicious. But what had happened is, 10 years earlier, um, basically in 2000,
- 26:14 – 30:39
Cheating on my wife
- TCTerry Crews
I had went to a massage parlor, and got a hand job and cheated on her. And man, I vowed, vowed that I would never tell a soul. Like, I was so hurt, I couldn't believe I did that. Like, you know, you think, "I was, no, I can only do this and that," you know, the, the, "Um, it's gonna stop here." But it just fueled the want for more, and I actually crossed the line. And when I crossed that line, I couldn't believe I did that. And I knew, I said, "I'm gonna go to my grave with this." I said, "No one's ever gonna know, and that's just the way it's gonna be." Well, years go by, like ... and, but my wife was always suspicious, like, "You know, what it, what's up with you, Terry?" And I'm like, "I'm good, I'm good." And I remember starting arguments so she would stop talking. 'Cause what happens is one lie turns into two, turns into a hundred, and over 10 years, you forget, you start to forget which lie you told. You know, things start to conflate and what mix- be like mixing up. And, and the pornography never stopped. It would, it would be at a lull, but I, I, you know, I'd go like a month and be like, "Oh, wow, I'm good." And then, "Ah." And man, it all culminated. I'll never forget. February 2010, she was like, "What is it I don't know about you, Terry Crews? There's something I don't know. I can't..." Man, it broke me. 'Cause we were on the phone, literally, I, I was in New York, she was in California, and I was working on a project, and now, this is one other thing I wanna say. I was very successful. Very successful. You talking rich, making money, famous, popular. Everybody loved Terry Crews. It was like, wow, you know, Mr. White Chicks, Mr. This, this, this, you know, it was phenomenal, money was rolling in, we were doing well. And I'm like, "What does she have to complain about?" You know? It's, it's a good life, you know? And the question I would ask her, uh, and I would literally ask myself, was like, "Why doesn't she believe me?" When the question I should've been asking is, "Why am I lying?" It's two different, it's, the context the same, two different views, you know? And I blamed her for not believing me. That's, that's how deep it goes. And I'm gonna tell you, success is the warmest place to hide. Because no one's gonna call you on your shit. Nobody's gonna say, "Hey, maybe you should..." You get a lot of sycophants. You get a lot of people telling me, you know, telling you, "You're right, you're right." I had tons of people like, "Man, you good. In comparison to everybody else, oh my God, you never hit your wife, you never, you, you, you bring the money home, you do all this stuff," but, but I was not real. I was a lie. I was living a lie. And when I told my wife, I heard this gasp on the other end, and I was like, "Oh boy, I think it's over." And she said, you know, "I'm done." She said, "I don't know who you are. I have no idea." 'Cause see, to me, it happened 10 years ago. But to her, it happened today.
- SBSteven Bartlett
I had a few words to say about one of my sponsors on this podcast. As the seasons have begun to change, so has my diet. And, um, right now, I'm just gonna be completely honest with you, I'm starting to think a lot about slimming down a little bit, because over the last couple of, probably the last four or five months, my diet's been pretty bad, um, and it's started to show a little bit. Really, over the last two months. I go to the gym about 80% of the time, so I track it with ten of my friends in a WhatsApp group in this tracker online that we all use together. We call it Fitness Blockchain, and I'm currently at 81%, um, so 81% of the days I've done a workout in the last 150 days. Right? So I'm going to the gym about six times a week. That's been a little bit impacted by the Diary of a CEO Live Tour, but I'm trying to stick to it.And so, one of the things I'm doing now to reduce my calorie intake and trying to get back to being
- 30:39 – 34:52
Opening up to my wife and its consequences
- SBSteven Bartlett
nutritionally complete in all I eat is I'm having the Huel protein shake. Thank you, Huel, for making a product that I actually like. The salted caramel is my favorite. I've got the banana one here, which is the one my girlfriend likes, but for me, salted caramel is the one. (Paper rustles) .
What did you tell her?
- TCTerry Crews
I told her that I went to a massage parlor in Vancouver and I got a hand job. And I said, "It happened..." I told her like 10 years ago. It was a long time ago. "It's just the one thing you don't know."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Why did you tell her on that day?
- TCTerry Crews
'Cause she's always asked me. Like, this wasn't the first time, you know? It was a, a course of like, "Mm, you doing something." I was, "I'm not doing anything." "What are you do..." Like, "Leave me alone, I'm not a..." Like I say, "Why won't you believe me?" But it became to a point where we were on the phone for so long and she wouldn't let it go. A little bit, it was like she wore me down to the point of, you know, like, "Here." And let me tell you the shocking thing about me telling her that revelation. I was like, she was like, "I'm gone, that's it, I'm out," and I was like, "Fine, leave. Great. Thank you. Now we know." 'Cause I was still blaming her. I was like, "So you're not gonna stick with me? Cool. You know what? I'm Terry Crews." I'm like, "I'll get another one just like that. First of all, Hollywood does not care if you lose your family. In fact, I'll get three more movies. They'll be like, 'Hey man, you ain't have to go home. Just go right this one set to the next.'" I said, "Since when has Hollywood cared if you lost your family? Since when has that been a career breaker? Never. In fact, you get a divorce, that's just par for the course." And I was like, "Cool, you can't handle it." I'm, and, and you know, and I had all kinds of excuses where, you know, "You don't understand my upbringing. I got a high sex drive. Um, you know, th- this fame. You, you, look at all the women I could be having." None of that stuff worked, man. And all of a sudden, and she left. I remember her hanging up the phone and said, "Don't come home," I'm st-, "I'm not." And then there I was by myself, I remember, in this hotel room, and I was with my little thing like, "There it is, it's over." And then, a little voice was like, "Maybe it's me." I was like, "Who is that?" (laughs) You know, I was like, "No, no, first of all, I just gave you the rundown on all the excuses on why it, it, it, I had to do what I had to do 'cause that's what I needed," and woop, woop, woop, woop. "It's you, Terry. She's got nothing to do with this." And man, it was like cracking an egg and I was trying to seal it, but it, the goop was going all over the place, and I'm like, "Uh, uh," I'm trying to put an egg back together and I can't do it. And I went, "Damn it, it is me. It is me." Like, "I lied." Like, "I was lying the whole time." And what I presented to my wife was an image, and she was married to that, but she wasn't married to the real Terry Crews. She was married to the picture. She didn't know. And let me tell you, man, one thing I learned, which is so important and incredible, after all this, and once me and my wife rebuilt our marriage, like, we literally from the ground up, I learned that intimacy is the only thing I'm looking for. And when I say that, intimacy really means that someone knows you, all your stuff, everything about you, good and bad, and loves you anyway. That's all every man is looking for. First of all, your mama does that.
- 34:52 – 45:30
Why do men avoid intimacy and vulnerability?
- TCTerry Crews
Your mama knows everything and she loves you anyway. That's why your love for your mother will never dissipate, a good mom. A good mom is always somebody that you're like, (gasps) you put on a pedestal.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Why don't men invite or allow that level of intimacy?
- TCTerry Crews
Well, first of all, it, it's b- it requires vulnerability. It requires you. You can't get intimacy without vulnerability. It's impossible, because you're going to have to tell your stuff. And imagine, imagine the problem, because if you can't tell, you'll never find intimacy. So, but that's the only thing you're looking for. So what happens is you get sex. Sex and love is two different things. Lots of sex and it's always unfulfilling because you're not getting what you need. You know what it's like? Drinking salt water. You drink salt water, tastes good, feels like you're getting hydrated, but you're slowly but surely dehydrating yourself.
- SBSteven Bartlett
There's this almost apparent paradox between when you're a man you think that masculinity is the opposite of vulnerability, right?
- TCTerry Crews
Right.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And you think masculinity is attractive. And also, in your case, it can, it can be our self-defense-
- TCTerry Crews
Exactly.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... through the hardest of times. So the thing that ends up being, was our self-defense and helped us to survive-... ends up thing, be- being the thing that stops us from being able to thrive, right?
- TCTerry Crews
Isn't it wild? Isn't it wild?
- SBSteven Bartlett
And that, like, at some point... I see it on this, this, this podcast. The, the example I give is Patrice Evra, who was the famous Manchester United football player, champion, won, you know, won all the titles. Tough guy, right? Grew up on the streets of France, where there was gangs, and he was sexually abused, and he was in a household where his brother had an overdose, and he was around that environment, and he built this, like, s- tough exterior to help him get through that.
- TCTerry Crews
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
But then, he gets into his later life and has kids, and he's cold with his kids, and he's cold with his partner. And then one day, his wife's nagging him and saying, "What's wrong with you? What's wrong with you?" Want- and he cracks.
- TCTerry Crews
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And at 40-odd years old or whatever he was at the time, he, for the first time ever, tells someone he was sexually abused by his headmaster, and he- and about all that pain that he had been, you know, he'd held behind that shield of his masculinity. And until then, he describes the same thing. Until then, he wasn't able to have a real intimate relationship with anybody.
- TCTerry Crews
That's right. Right.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And I ju- I think it's interesting, 'cause so many men listening to this, you know, and I was definitely one of them, um, um, would've used masculinity, or what we think masculinity is, as a way to survive and to fit in and to get, get through. And then it gets in our way-
- TCTerry Crews
Yep. Yep.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... later.
- TCTerry Crews
Well, I mean, everything works until it doesn't.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- TCTerry Crews
Drugs work until they don't.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hmm.
- TCTerry Crews
My pornography addiction worked until it didn't.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Did you tell her about that?
- TCTerry Crews
Yes. I told her everything. You know, we had a thing, and this is what was we, we required in therapy, was... The term is disclosure. And you ha- and you have to answer every question she has, truthfully and honestly. And I'm gonna tell you, man, it was like shooting her. It was like shooting her. Um, what was wild, I remember, in the NFL, that I look back on and I thought were, you know, moments of camaraderie, but they were really, it was really disturbingly twisted, in that, you know, we would land a plane, go to the strip club. And all the guys be, you know... You, you would feel like, okay, they're like, "Man, we going to the club? We going to Magic City? Atlanta? We doing it?" And you're like, "Okay, we going down there." And you go into the club, and all of a sudden, there's girls out there, and they're doing their thing. And then all of a sudden, one of the girls will come off the stage, and then they want to talk to the players. And it's, "Hi, how you doing? Uh, you know, I got my kids, and I'm da-da-da-da." And it's like, "Ah, ah, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. You're ruining it." 'Cause she's talking kids, she's talking life, she's talking stuff. The problem was, she was becoming a human being before our eyes. Just get back up on the stage and be a doll, be a picture. Because pictures don't talk back. You know what I mean? Like, hum- humans do. But you be a mannequin, and you can, we can manipulate you any, any way we want. But don't talk, 'cause you're ruining it. And when I say... I've said this before, and, and a lot of people got on me, but, um, there was, there's... There was a thing where we didn't really think women were as human as men were. That's, that's a horrible thought. But it was everything that I was taught. Um, in my culture, it was like, hey man, when... You gotta understand, growing up in Flint, in the hood, the whole thing was like, "Hey man, you better get your, you better tell your girl something. Better get her in line." And you, you were, you owned your family. Not like you served them. You owned them. You owned your girl or girls. You know, the pimp mentality was praised. Like, "Oh, what's up, pimp? Oh, that's my pimp right there." I mean, these are fatherless kids. One of my best friends, you know, his dad took him to a prostitute, just to make sure he wasn't gay. Huh? You're talking about severely abusive behavior. And I even... And no, and this is another thing. I even bring it up in the book. You know, this was another thing, even amongst the women. You know, my mother... There was one time, my mother felt like she owned us. And I remember, she made me... And she, she called me in the room, and she said, "You got hair down there?" I was like, "What?"
- SBSteven Bartlett
Hair down there?
- TCTerry Crews
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
As in pubic hair?
- TCTerry Crews
She said, "Do you have..." Yeah. She said, "Do you have hair down there?" I said, "Down where? What are you talking about?" "There!" And she points at my privates. I'm like, "Yeah, I guess." And she said, "Pull it down. Let me see. Pull your pants down." "What?" "Pull your pants down. Let me see." Man, I'll never forget it. You know, pull them down, I'm looking out the window. I'm just, like, trying to be somewhere, anywhere other than here. But it was that extreme religious control vibe, where it was like, "I control you, to the point where I can just make you pull your pants down, inspect you." And I... Listen. I don't think it was... It wasn't sexual in nature, but it was definitely abusive in nature. And it was to let me know that, "I run this." And I remember pulling my pants up and trying to forget it for years. For years. And I confronted my mother about it. I remember when I was grown and out... Again, already successful, but I had already went through D-Day with my wife and going through therapy. And I called my mother, I said, "Do you remember when you, when you made me do that?" And she said, "Do what?" I said, "Ma, remember?" She said, "I didn't do that."... you did that, and she denied it. And then my sister came in and was like, "Why are you trying to break up the family, you trying to do all this stuff," dah, dah, dah. And I was like, "I didn't make this up." And she said, "Well, if it, if it did happen, I was young and stupid and, you know..." A- and she just tried to excuse it and this thing, 'cause it's too painful. It's too painful. No one wants to know they hurt their kids. But it happened. And it was part of me getting through every little bit. And see, I called the book Tough because remember I brought up the fact that, you know, the courage to control the things you can. You can. There's a lot you can control about yourself. See, I was hope... like, literally helpless. For, to, to, do... Like, whichever way the wind blew, Terry Crews was going.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm.
- 45:30 – 47:32
What was your lowest moment?
- TCTerry Crews
And I said, "But I'm not a nigga." And I realized that there was so much I could let wash off, because I examined it, and I w- and I put it to the test. But you gotta be tough to do that.
- SBSteven Bartlett
When you look back on that period, what was your lowest moment?
- TCTerry Crews
Mm-hmm. (sighs) I wo- I would have to say that the day I went to th- that massage parlor. It was low.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- TCTerry Crews
I wro- I write about it in the book. I m- I just think s- just... And I describe it in detail, just because I never thought I would do something like that on my wife. Like, "How did I end up here?" You know, you just look around like, "What in the world..." You know, and it's like, um... It, it's almost like having a faulty instrument panel, and you're trying to get to Seattle, and you end up in Mexico. You're like, "What in the world? How did I do this?" It was low. I, like, I... That was the real moment I actually considered suicide. Like, for a minute, I remember thinking, "What if I just found a way to die and then make it look like it was an acci-" You know, like, I was kind of thinking of things, you know?
- SBSteven Bartlett
After the massage parlor?
- TCTerry Crews
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Or the ten year, ten years later when you start speaking truly?
- TCTerry Crews
No, no, a-
- SBSteven Bartlett
When you-
- TCTerry Crews
That was after.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Really-
- TCTerry Crews
I mean, th- that 2000 was a dark time. That's why I was like... To me, D- D-Day, 10 years later, was actually an awakening, because it all happened in one day. It was like denial, and then all of a sudden acceptance that I got it screwed up. Um, I don't, I don't, I don't look at D-Day as a low day at all. I look at it as the day I woke up, the day of like, wow, I was forced to see myself as I really was, 'cause I, I had a great image of myself.
- 47:32 – 55:33
Your dad being aggressive in front of your children
- TCTerry Crews
And it was like, "Oh, I'm this. I'm..." And I'm not that bad, 'cause I'm, in comparison to everyone else, I'm great. But it di- it didn't, it did not pass muster, because she had to be the one to dictate that.
- SBSteven Bartlett
One of the other symptoms of being tough is introduced in the prologue section of the book, where you talk about-
- TCTerry Crews
Yes.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... the day where you get in an altercation and there's extreme violence. I mean, violence shows up there, but, but you also through it see it throughout your story.
- TCTerry Crews
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And the other key moment that really stayed in my mind, and it was a very graphic scene, is when, I believe you're on the way to dinner with your wife and you get a phone call saying that Big Terry, your father, has punched your mother again, and her tooth is turned in her mouth.
- TCTerry Crews
Yup. Yup.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Tell me about that phone call.
- TCTerry Crews
Huh, man. First of all, I, I made my father vow. I said, "Man, look, I'm bringing my kids." This was the first time I'd actually been in Hollywood. Uh, this is post-NFL. I had already had a job, but my first job was a TV show called Battle Dome where I basically beat people up.... uh, it was like American Gladiators on steroids. Um, they put me in a cage, set the ends on fire, and I would take three contestants and, and pummel them. (laughs) It was ... I mean, i- you know, I know about violence, okay? And I could do it. Um, and so I came back home for Christmas, and we called it the Christmas from hell. And so we were there and w- we're going out to dinner with some friends, and Detroit is about 45 minutes from Flint, and we were driving to Detroit with me and my wife to go see our friends, and we get a call. We're literally 10 minutes into the ride and I get a call from my aunt, she's like, "Oh my God," you know, "your father hit your mother." And I'm like, "What?" He was drinking. It's because somehow the holidays brings out the alco- you know, everybody wants to drink on the alco- i- it's really activating, triggering for alcoholics. And I said, "Did my kids see it?" And she said, "Yes, Terry, they saw it. They're right there."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Your kids saw it?
- TCTerry Crews
My kids were there.
- SBSteven Bartlett
How old were you?
- TCTerry Crews
Oh, I was, uh, (sighs) I'd just started, so I was about 31, 32 years old. And, um, yeah man, it was ... I couldn't believe it because I told them, I said, "Man, my kids have never came up in this. They've never seen this." You know? And, and I have three daughters at the time, and I have five now, but I couldn't believe, and they were s- they were just shocked. They had never been in that. And all I remember is just the, the s- the feeling of surreal terror. You know what I mean? Like, this big man is beating my mother up. What do I do? I don't know. You know? And then they were in there like, "Oh, why is he doing this?" Like, they ain't never seen it. And I said, "Damn it!" Man, I p- turned that ... I did a U-turn. I said, "Listen, take the kids, take them over your house. Make sure it's just me and Big Terry in that house. Understand? Make sure of it." She got the kids out, the whole thing, dude, I roll up in that house, I said, "Hey man, didn't I tell you?" He said, "Aw man, shut up man. Get out my face." Pow! Hit him dead in his mouth. And there it was. I was like, "Man, all those times you beat my mother up, all those times I was running around five years old scared, couldn't do nothing, froze up. I'm bigger than your ass now, huh? How you like that?" Pow! Pow! He's screaming at, at me to stop. He's bleeding, he's screaming, and I'm just wailing on him, man. And I'm like, "No, how you like that? How ... this is how she felt."
- SBSteven Bartlett
And you're crying while you're doing this?
- TCTerry Crews
I beat his ass, and I'm in tears. But listen to me, man. Uh, it was nothing. It was empty. Like, nothing. I, I thought, "There it is. I got revenge. Revenge is complete." And it was hollow. It was like a empty box. It was like a big box with a giant bow on it. What now? I was like, "You just beat up your dad. Big deal." It didn't s- settle the score, didn't change him, didn't fix my mother's tooth, didn't do anything. My mother moved right back in. I was like, "What the hell?" And so I didn't come back home for 10 years after that. I was like ... I, I remember just being shocked, like, this, this was supposed to be so good, this was supposed to be so sweet. It was nothing. It, it didn't work. And, you know, one thing I discovered, even in writing this book, was that you can either have success or revenge, but you can't have both. It's ... success would've been transcending that moment, taking your mother outta there and just leaving him alone to his own devices, because that's a punishment you l- let, let these people do th- ... You know, these kind of people, that stuff doesn't work, 'cause it just makes them more angry. You know what I mean?
- SBSteven Bartlett
It makes the whole world blind, doesn't it?
- TCTerry Crews
It makes the whole world blind. But s- success is when you leave. But revenge is quick. I'm, I'm gonna have to say this because there was a time w- when I was Will Smith, when you could say something and I would've walked up on that stage and smacked you. But when I learned how to be Chris Rock, when I learned how to keep control and actually not let things descend into chaos, 'cause that's what that could've been. When you look at Chris and if he'd have f- imagine if he'd have fought back. Huh. There would've been no recovering. That would've been the end of the Academy Awards. Already was, by the way. But it would've been complete bedlam. (page turns)
- SBSteven Bartlett
Quick one. As you might know, Crafted are one of the sponsors of this podcast, and Crafted are a jewelry brand and they make really meaningful pieces of jewelry. And this piece by Crafted, when I put it on, for me it represents courage, it represents ambition, it represents being calm and loving and respectful and nurturing while also being the antithesis of that, seemingly the antithesis of that, which is, um, sometimes a little bit aggressive with my goals and determined and courageous and brave. The really wonderful thing about Crafted jewelry is it's super affordable, it looks amazing, the pieces hold tremendous meaning, and they are really well-made. (page turns) What was the process for you to become...
... that man, to take on your ego. And I remember reading about the moment when you were on holiday and your daughter spills her drink, and-
- TCTerry Crews
Yes.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... and you would have reacted with-
- TCTerry Crews
It was actually my son. It was my son.
- SBSteven Bartlett
It was your son?
- TCTerry Crews
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Spills his drink and you would have normally reacted with anger or been mad at that moment, but your, your wife actually p- noticed that you didn't and she said to you, "You've actually changed."
- TCTerry Crews
That was the moment. Wait-
- SBSteven Bartlett
What-
- TCTerry Crews
... first of all-
- SBSteven Bartlett
What was it that changed you? What was the process?
- TCTerry Crews
You know, remember, this was years in, okay? And it was small, minor, minor changes. Just one after the other, one after the other. It was a s- process of constantly examining. You gotta understand, like, there was a moment where I would walk outside and it would look different. Like, ugh, like the sun would look different and w- it was weird.
- 55:33 – 1:03:23
How and why did you change?
- TCTerry Crews
I'll, I'll never forget, um, coming out of therapy, and this guy was like, they were like, "Terry, you have to learn how to tell people no." Because I was a pleaser. And so I remember being at dinner and people would be like, "Can I get an autograph?" I'm like, "Yeah." And I would sign autographs for an hour with my family there, and my wi- my wife was like, "Terry, w- we're here. We can't even enjoy it." I was like, "Yeah, but these, these are my fans. These are the people that pay our bills." And da, da, da. She's like, "You ca- you can't tell them no? Just for an hour?" And I couldn't. Because I was like, "I gotta ple-" And it was, I remember being in counseling and the, the counselor l- asked me, she said, "What if a director told you to do something you didn't want to do?" I said, "Well, I have to do it." And she said, "No, you don't." I said, "Yes, I do." She said, "No, you don't, Terry." I said, "Well, I'm an actor." She said, "Yeah, but you don't have to do what the director, everything the director tells you to do." I said, "Yes, I do, 'cause I'm an actor." And she said, "No. No, you don't." She said, "Terry," I s- you don't have to do that." I said, "But w- I would lose my job." And she said, "Well, get another job." I said, "But I'm an actor." And she said, "Terry, you don't have to do what you don't want to do." I didn't know. Especially since I was such a pleaser, it was one of them things, "Well, yeah, yeah." And I'll never forget, this guy came up to me, he said, "Hey, man, can I get an autograph?" And I was gonna do it, I was gonna practice, I said... And I looked at him, I said, "No." And he said, "Come on, man. Come on, man." I said, "No! No! No!" And I was... (laughs) I went crazy, and the guy was like, "Dude, relax, man." And I was like shaking. It was the first time I was exercising this, "No! My no! No!" And I was shaking. I got back in the car and I said... You gotta understand, I was going, I thought I was going crazy. I thought I was going crazy. But what I was doing was dissecting and piecing and understanding who I was and what made me tick. And it's so thorough, and it got so thorough to the point where I was like, "Oh, that... Why do I feel angry if someone says that?" Or, "Why am I, why am I insulted? Why? Is it me or is it them?" And see, and once I started asking these questions, I could let it go. And I was like, "Oh, man, that's got nothing to do with me." But whereas before it was just, "You insulted me!" And dude, it, the process of doing this kept going on and on and on and on and on to the point where when my son spilled that water, I knew he was innocent, whereas before he would be guilty. Whereas before, m- man, "Watch where you going, you gotta pay attention. I- i- if you don't pay attention now and then, you spilled this water all over the place and na, na, you know how much this cost? Na, na." I woulda went off. I w- you know how many... I can't t- count to you how many family gatherings I have ruined, how many, you know, theme park outings I've s- crushed, people in tears. "I'm going back to the room (sighs) because I just..." Everything had to be perfect. Everything had to be the way it's supposed to be and na, na, na. "You didn't do it the way I want it," it was g- it was h- my way or the highway. But dude, that moment he spilled that water and I was like, "Aw man, it's okay. It's all right." Dude, everybody at that table was like, "Are you serious?" And my wife looked at me... (cries) She looked at me. She said I was different. And I knew I was. After all we've been through. I'll never forget, she said, "Terry, you different." Said, "Terry, I'm with you." She said, "I love you." I said, "Thank God I stuck with you, 'cause you were willing to do the work." And it was, uh... (sighs) That's when I knew. That's when I knew. And that's one of the biggest reasons why I have to tell it. Simply because I don't want people to feel like they're alone. I don't want men to feel like they're alone. I don't want men to feel like it's just them and they don't know any way out and the whole thing. I said, "I have to be vulnerable, I have to share this part so that you know how far I came." You know, this, I have no interest in showing that image anymore. I have no idea. Like I said, I'm, I told you earlier, I've moved from fiction to non-fiction.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Why did that mean so much to you when she said that?
- TCTerry Crews
... because I knew I wanted to make it right. It's not enough to say you're sorry. Just not enough. It's like, it's not enough to hit people with your car and go, "My bad," and pull off. But you gotta understand, in the world today, you said, "My bad, I said I'm sorry, bye," and you leave people broken. You just hit somebody with your car, and you pull off and be like, "My bad," and yell it out. It's not enough. Not enough. I damaged my family. I damaged my wife. And that's when I knew when the person I hit can come back and tell me they love me and they hug me, and they know that I was truly sorry. That's the forgiveness I always wanted. That's what I wanted. And you have to make amends. You have to do what's within your power to make things right. And again, a lot has been said for just, "Yeah, I said I'm sorry," and the whole thing, but man, it's just never enough. You have to do the work and, and you have to pay the price. Like, you have to stay by the, stay by whoever you hit. You gotta wait till the ambulance comes. You gotta wait till the police comes. You gotta fill out the police report. You gotta own up to it. And that's what I did.
- SBSteven Bartlett
What do you think your life would be like if you hadn't looked yourself in the mirror and started to own up to and confront that?
- TCTerry Crews
I, I don't believe I'd be here today. I really don't. Um, my temper... I would've went off on somebody. Um, I don't, I don't... I ch- I honestly can't say. I know I wouldn't be married. I probably, you know, the v- the vision is, (sighs) you know, Hollywood and relationship to relationship, just trying to find somebody that would stick with me long enough for s- for the pictures. Um,
- 1:03:23 – 1:05:22
How would your life be if you wouldn't have changed?
- TCTerry Crews
it's not love, man. You know, this whole thing, it's wild because unless somebody knows who you are and r- and, and really, really is willing to love you, um, y- y- you know, H- Hollywood doesn't do that. It doesn't operate like that. In fact, what's so crazy about Hollywood is that they'll make movies about love. Like, they'll s- the, the main star will be like a m- a mo- The star will be talking about, "Oh my God," you know? There'll be, like, this great movie that was all about this love relationship, and he's a rapist. That's this town, you know what I mean? And it's wild, but it's real. Uh, I mean, it don't make no d- It's the same thing that happened to me when, uh, my own agent assaulted me, and I went to the head of m- of the motion picture department, and I was like, "Hey man," I said, "this dude... You can't molest the clients." And the guy looked at me and said, "He's a partner. Yeah. Yeah, he can."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Your agent at a party, well documented-
- TCTerry Crews
Yes.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... came up to you and started groping you.
- TCTerry Crews
He grabbed my privates. He grabbed my dick, basically. And I'm like, "Yo." Uh, now, look, I don't know what he was on, 'cause he wasn't drunk, but he was on something, okay? I don't know what it was. I, I have no idea. But he was not acting himself. He was licking his tongue out and acting all funny and weird. It's like he was tweaking, this nervous, weird energy, like somebody had a molly or something crazy. Um, he was not there, okay? And I was just like, "Man..." He was looking at me like, "Oh my God." Like, I don't know what was... And his wife was there, and th- my wife was there. And again, it was really weird because here we are in this really, you know, Hollywood party, hot
- 1:05:22 – 1:14:17
I was sexually assaulted by a Hollywood executive
- TCTerry Crews
famous people everywhere. And here, he's... Listen. He's Stallone's agent. He's Eddie Murphy's agent. He's Adam Sandler's agent. He's the head of the motion picture department at William Morris Endeavor. And he lost his mind. And look, I pushed him off. He comes back again. I push him off again. I'm like, "Yo man, get the fuck off me, man." And he starts laughing. "Ah," and I'm going, "What?" Now, I'm feeling so crazy. Now, I'm about to put my hand through his head. And my wife, I looked at her, and she s- and this is where I went to, because my wife had seen me. There's a long trail of people who've been knocked out by Terry Crews, okay? So she looked at me, and... But there was a time, a long time ago, she made me promise that I would not be violent anymore, and that was part of the therapy. It was part of what we're doing. And I realized this was another trap. This was no different than being called nigga. This was no different than a pull and a bait that, if I went for it... And what's so crazy is I asked people the question. Like, if I had knocked him out... 'Cause a lot of people say, "You shoulda just done it, man. What's wrong with you, man? You weak." But I go, "Would you have believed me?" No. No. Ev- you, even you, the people who say that I shoulda done it, would you have believed the story that this guy grabbed my balls...And I just wailed, and I wailed off on him. And he happens to be the head of the Motion Picture Department. Why would he do that? Terry Crews, big s- superstar, probably got drunk, probably knocked him out 'cause he gets angry. Hey, man, nobody would believe that. But you believe me now, because I didn't do it.
- SBSteven Bartlett
When people take that, you took that to your agency, the head of your agency, and you told him what ha- wha- what had happened and he said...
- TCTerry Crews
He said, well, he's a partner. (laughs) And he said, "Listen, this is what I'm going to do to Terry." He said, "I'm gonna take his title, and he's going to be suspended for 30 days." And I went, "Huh? So you gonna send him on vacation?"
- SBSteven Bartlett
Was he giving you that fake energy?
- TCTerry Crews
Oh, it was, it was-
- SBSteven Bartlett
You know, when they're fake handling it?
- TCTerry Crews
It was as fake as, it was like dealing with the devil. And he, but first of all, when I met with him, he was like, "I'm going to give you a meeting." As if the gr- he was gonna grace, uh, he was gonna let me grace his presence. Because, you know, he owns all these people in Hollywood. And I'm like, "What the hell?"
- SBSteven Bartlett
When people talk about why they didn't come forward, they often mention an element of fear.
- TCTerry Crews
Yes.
- SBSteven Bartlett
For what that powerful individual might do to their career, or their life, or...
- TCTerry Crews
What happened is, even right after it happened, he told me the other day that, uh, Adam Venit called me and he was like, "I'm sorry, I was drunk and, you know..." Blah, blah, blah. I said, "Hey, man. You gotta be held responsible for what you just did. I don't know what's up. So what's up?" And so everybody told me, "We're taking this very seriously, and we're gonna be g- we're gonna get back to you with some, with, with what's gonna happen." Nothing happened, right? So a year later when the Me Too thing happens, I snapped, 'cause I knew nothing was going down. They let him get away with it. And so when I me- when I met with Ari, I said, "Hey, Ari," I said, "Man, first of all, you wrote a letter to Mel Gibson demanding that he be kicked out of Hollywood for antisemitic remarks. You wrote a letter to the Huffington Post. You can Google it right now, and it tells how he needs to be kicked out." I said, "Look, antisemitic remarks, as reprehensible as they are, are not illegal." I said, "But sexual assault is." I said, "You c-" and I said, "I don't c- you, you're talking about a, a, a 30-day suspension." I said, "Man, you can't molest the clients and come back to work, ever." I said, "If somebody in the mail room did this, they'd be out. How much more the head of the agency? A partner?" I said, "What are you saying?" He said, "It's different." And you know what it reminded me of? It reminded me of the standing O that happened to Will Smith. It's different. It's Will Smith. Chris Rock standing over there and nobody goes to him, he's standing all by himself, but who's bigger? Who's got the best light? Ah, we love Will. (snaps fingers) It's different. And I said, "Dude, no it's not. No." And I said, "All right, man," I said, "you really want this?" And he said, "Hey, man, it is what it is." I said, "Okay. I'll see you when I see you." And what happened was I decided to sue. And I spent $500,000 of my own money suing William Morris Endeavor, and what was crazy is that they fought me every step of the way until people came out of the woodwork. People like, "Terry, he did this to me too. Let me join your case." I was like... 'Cause remember, you don't rob the biggest s- you know, bank on, in the, in the city. You start out with the branches. You start out small. And all these people started to come out of the woodwork about what this man had done. (laughs) And all the s- and then all of a sudden they were white flag, "Our bad," and he decided to do re- they decided to retire him. So he basically retired. You're not allowed to say fire, but he was retired. And I was like, "Good." And I didn't want any money. I never wanted money in the first place, 'cause their whole thing was they were scared, "Oh, you what, what, how much you want?" (mimics stammering) I was like, "I don't want a dime." I said, "Dude, I will spend a million dollars to win $1. So what do you wanna do?" And so what they did, I got my, my attorney fees back, he was gone. And, but that's all they should've done in the first place, because it's unacceptable. Remember, it's not enough to say, "My bad." You can't tell me, you can't grab me in front of my wife and all this and be like, "Oh, my bad. I got high that day."
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- TCTerry Crews
It's not enough.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Does Will Smith remind you of who you used to be-
- TCTerry Crews
Not at all.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... in that moment? Because I-
- TCTerry Crews
This is why, listen, I love Will and I love Chris, you know? I love Will. And I, all I could think about was like, "Oh my God, that's me. That was me."
- SBSteven Bartlett
And does that give you empathy for-
- TCTerry Crews
Yes. Yes. Yes. I hope that's what everybody's getting from this interview, 'cause I had nothing but empathy for Will at that time, because I'm going, "No," (laughs) no. He got pulled in. He got baited, you know, a joke. Now again, it wasn't funny. It's not even one of Chris's best jokes. It wasn't even... And I looked at that thing and I went, "Oh, no. Will, no." And, and, and it didn't hit me until he was back in his chair and you saw he lost it.And he was saying these things, and I said, "Oh, no," because it reminded me of me. It just reminded me, I would've done that, man. I would've done worse than that, I'll be honest. You, it, b- what Will s- what Will did was nice compared to the stuff I did.
- SBSteven Bartlett
One of the things that you sa- say in your book in ch- in section two, which is titled Shame, is that your overachieving came from insecurity, which is the other side, the other consequence of the context in which you were raised, right? The other, the other side of it, so you've got the one side which created anger and all of these other things, and these ... the escape of pornography. But the other side of it, the thing that everybody claps for, which made you an anomaly as well and gave you that drive and, and that hard work was-
- TCTerry Crews
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... was your success, and that came from the same place.
- TCTerry Crews
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And that's sometimes funny when you think-
- TCTerry Crews
(laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
... the, the thing ... my light side and my dark side originated from the same catalyst.
- TCTerry Crews
Yes.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Right?
- TCTerry Crews
Yes. It, and it's, um, it, it, it's, it's kinda wild because these things,
- 1:14:17 – 1:23:28
How my dark and bright side came from the same place
- TCTerry Crews
you know, it, you get a lot done when you are running off shame, or even, even revenge, these kind of things. You get a lot done. Like, this energizes, like, "Okay, I gotta prove that I'm this. I gotta prove..." And it's, and again, it's, it's a typically ... I would, I (sighs) you know, I've seen women do it too, but I would say for men, it's, it's a typical move where we feel bad, but then you have to find a way to feel good about yourself. You know what I mean?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- TCTerry Crews
And you have to find something to feel good about, so you immerse yourself in work, you know?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Is that what you did?
- TCTerry Crews
I d- oh, definitely. Definitely.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Were you, like, a, uh, uh, obsessed? A workaholic?
- TCTerry Crews
Obsessed. Oh my God, I mean, hey man, you talking about I used to ... I'm the kinda guy who would work out until you passed out. Like, I'd work out till you ... every muscle in my body cramped up.
- SBSteven Bartlett
'Cause I'm trying to figure out, you know, you came ... you were an NFL player, it didn't go great for you there.
- TCTerry Crews
Right.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And then you arrive in LA, and without acting training, like extensive acting training, without coming from Hollywood, in your 30s, you managed to build this career and become a really successful actor. You spent the first two years in LA, you know, pretty, pretty broke, working jobs-
- TCTerry Crews
Security, yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... yeah, jobs people wouldn't wanna work. But then you rise from that point to become this tremendously successful actor in a completely different field at a time in life where people would consider pretty late to get into acting, in your 30s. And I'm, I'm looking at that, thinking, "What was it about Terry that made him successful in that discipline when that, where that's not where he came from?" He came from the NFL. He came from art school.
- TCTerry Crews
Right, eh, but I have to say, um, it was the only thing I could feel good about myself for. You know what I mean? Like, it was one of those things where all my self-worth (laughs) came from it. That's why when she said, you know, "What would, what if a director did something you didn't want you to do?" I said, "Oh, I have to do it," because everything, I was wrapped up in their opinion of me. You see what I mean?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm-hmm.
- TCTerry Crews
So, you go farther than that. You do that. You, you go ... if it was people going around the block once, I go around the block four times. (laughs) So, I remember be- even being on security. You know, we would stand for 12 hours straight, you know, and so I remember just being this person who, you know, they were like, "W- we can break you for lunch," but I would bring my own lunch and have it standing right there, right next to me, and I would jog in place, and-
- SBSteven Bartlett
You would jog in place?
- TCTerry Crews
Oh, y- oh, yeah. I mean, I was gonna get the workout in, and I said, "I'm never gonna let my body get down. I'm gonna ..." 'Cause see, remember, like, "Mom, I'm gonna be the best kid. I'm gonna be the best kid in the church that you ever seen," because of the pleaser thing, and the whole thing, and then the shame would, would, would make you bad again. And always knowing and, and feeling in your heart that, at your core, you're bad, so you must never get there. In fact, do so much you never be alone. You s- you know what I mean?
- SBSteven Bartlett
Mm.
- TCTerry Crews
It's, uh, do so much that you don't have to face yourself, because then things start to fall out. Then things start to fall apart. So, d- you know, I had, I had, like, three jobs at the same time. There were times I was like ... I would sleep on four hours, and I would get up and do a security job. Then I would go to m- my bouncing gig, and then I would do two or three ... I would try to get another gig on the other side, and then even as an actor. There was ... it was actually illegal. I was doing three movies at the same time one time. You can't do that. But I didn't tell anybody, but I was that focused. I was like, "Man, I'm here. I'm here, and I can show them. I can be, I can be beyond." And see, for me, it was like, you know, you have to understand, the NFL, uh, you know, for me, it was not about catching ability, throwing ability. It was my ability to take tremendous amounts of pain. That was my skill in the NFL. I could take a lot of pain. I could endure a lot. And so I was like, "I'm going to ... I'm just gonna be unstoppable."
- SBSteven Bartlett
When you start doing the work with the therapist and you start unpacking a lot of this stuff, how does this change your relationship with work?
- TCTerry Crews
Oh, oh, it became where, hey man, you're good because you're g- c- because you're you, and then the default ... 'cause this is another thing. I had to ... and one thing that my therapist would really highlight for me was have you ever seen a, a t- a child is not bad.And it hit me that if that was our state, then children would be evil. (laughs) You know, all children would be evil, but no, no, all children are good and it's programmable. And so what I did, I put a picture of myself on my desktop in my computer, and then I even printed it out and put it in a little frame, and it was me at six years old, like my little two teeth missing, and I was like, "That's you, man." (laughs) And I get, I get choked up looking at it 'cause it's like even if I think about it, I'm like, "That's still you, that little good little boy." What would you tell him if he was sitting right next to you? If he was sitting right next to you, what would you tell him? You would hug him. You know, the little boy who kissed his dad and got shunned out the room, you would be like, "Man, it's okay. I love you, man. You're a good boy." You know, I'm, I'm the same person. I'm still him. I'm still him. I got in touch with that dude, and I said, "That's who I am," and that got rid of the shame. Now guilt is good. Guilt says you did something wrong and you need to fix it, but you need to- shame ain't working. You ain't got nothing to be shamed about. Nothing. You know, it's funny 'cause there are people who make it... I remember being in high school and you'd do something d- dumb and fart by mistake, oh, and they're like, "Ha, ha, ha." I don't fart. I never... People wou- literally say that, "Man, I never farted ever." And you're like, "Oh, man, you don't fart? Oh, man. Am I the only one?" And I started to realize, man, that shame stuff, it's manipulative. It's, people use that stuff. I never did that. And now all they're doing is trying to one-up you, and I realized, man, just be you. You know what? One thing I, that, that changed for me is I stopped competing with people and I said, "Don't try to be the best. Be the only. Be the only." There's only one Terry Crews. You want Terry Crews? You got to b- like, you gotta get Terry Crews. You know, you see in scripts, they're like, "Terry Crews type." You know, I, I don't know. I love everybody. Well, you know, I love The Rock, I love Kevin Hart, I love all these other guys, but I'm Terry Crews. You'll never be like me and I'll never be like them. I'm the only, and by being the only, you are the best. That's it. And I went, "Oh my God," like that was a watershed. So much pressure off. You see what I'm saying? It's like, whoa, now I'm working 'cause I like it. I'm not working 'cause I gotta prove it and eh, and keep up with all the... And he's got two houses. I need three, 'cause it's another thing. I started to ask myself, "What am I missing? Am I missing anything?" I'm not mis- if I got one house, am I missing something? No. If I have one wife that loves me, am I missing something 'cause I don't have 10 girlfriends? I'm telling you, it's, it's powerful.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Terry, thank you.
- TCTerry Crews
Thank you, sir.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Um, a very necessary book in our time. That's the best way I can describe it because, um, I feel privileged to have had the joy to read it before it's come out, but a very necessary book for all the reasons that I'm sure are evident for everyone listening today. But, you know, there's a lot of men and women 'cause this is, uh, you know, it takes two to tango, but it also takes two to understand. Um, there's a lot of men and women suffering, the, from the consequences of the things that cause the insidious, toxic, corruptive behavior you see in, in people, in men today.
- TCTerry Crews
Yeah.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And your book is, tackles that head on in the most vulnerable, honest, important way, and the only way, to be honest.
- TCTerry Crews
Thank you.
- SBSteven Bartlett
You are a man that represents, for many, especially in movies, being strong. And what you do in this book is you redefine
- 1:23:28 – 1:25:13
Our last guest's question
- SBSteven Bartlett
what being strong means.
- TCTerry Crews
Mm-hmm.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And that's certainly something that I took away from it and will have a big impact on my life going forward. So thank you so much for your time and everything, uh, and writing such an important book. I think it's gonna be an absolute tremendous hit, especially for the people that listen to this. And we do have a closing tradition-
- TCTerry Crews
Okay.
- SBSteven Bartlett
... on this podcast, which is the last guest writes a question for the next guest.
- TCTerry Crews
Ooh.
- SBSteven Bartlett
So in a weird way, they all have a conversation with each other.
- TCTerry Crews
Okay.
- SBSteven Bartlett
And I don't get to read it until I open this book.
- TCTerry Crews
Okay. (laughs)
- SBSteven Bartlett
So what is your mood right now?
- TCTerry Crews
My mood right now is satiated. That's the only way I can describe it. It feels, it feels good.
- SBSteven Bartlett
(laughs)
- TCTerry Crews
To just, ah, get it out, talk about your life the way you want to talk about it, you know. What's, I think social media pulls everything out of context, uh, and it's so confu- you, you mean something and someone can say it means another thing, but this, it's, it's a very satisfying and satiating feeling to be able to talk and tell your story and not have it be taken out of context. So beautiful. That's my mood right now.
- SBSteven Bartlett
Terry, thank you.
- TCTerry Crews
Thank you. Thank you. (instrumental music)
Episode duration: 1:25:13
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