The 1% Mindset: How to 1000x Your Success & Productivity! - Manchester United Director Of Sport

1. 0:00 – 2:37

   Intro

   1. SBSir Dave Brailsford0:00

      I'm very, very lucky that I get to help other people be the best version of themselves.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett0:04

      Sir David Brailsford, to many, he's one of the greatest winners of our generation.

   3. SBSir Dave Brailsford0:10

      If you can get a little bit of insight, why do I feel how I'm feeling? Why do I respond like I do? And then you realize and think, "Wow, a lot of my behavior, a lot of my life was driven by emotion. It wasn't driven by the real me." The best thing ever if it happens, and if it doesn't, then you might be absolutely devastated, but you gotta live it as a dream. And you gotta understand that actually worrying about the consequence of an event is detrimental to the process and the performance and the, the chances of you achieving that event. Perfection. Perfection was so far away, that there's no point in attainment for... because we're gonna fail every day. So I thought, "Well, let's have a little progression." Because right then what could we do by next week that we're not doing this week? What little things could we do? There's a million things that could impact performance. And it, and it works. It works 100% it works. Been doing it 20 years. (laughs)

   4. SBSteven Bartlett0:57

      Quick one. Can you do me a favor if you're listening to this and hit the subscribe button, the follow button, wherever you're listening to this podcast? Thank you so much. Sir David Brailsford. I've tried since this podcast began to get Sir David Brailsford to come here and have a conversation with me. So, having this conversation today and being able to share it with you is one of the highlights, all time, in this podcast's history. I don't think it's an understatement to say that he has worked miracles with teams, taking teams in cycling that were underachieving and making them undeniably the greatest team in their world, and maybe of a generation. He's famous for this concept of marginal gains. It's a concept which I speak to my team about every single day, and maybe that's why I wanted to sit here with him. Today you will understand, without a shadow of a doubt, how to build a successful team. That's what you'll come away with. You'll understand how to be successful personally. You'll understand how to inspire those around you to be successful. But the surprising thing, which I think you'll also take away from this, is the cost of success, and we don't often take enough time to ask ourself that very honest question, "Is the climb worth the view?" But by the end of this podcast, I think you'll be closer, in your life, to having an answer for that question. So without further ado, I'm Steven Bartlett, and this is The Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself. (instrumental music plays)

2. 2:37 – 8:43

   Your early years

   1. SBSteven Bartlett2:37

      A conscious sense of outsiderness from a very early age, um, you said that once upon a time, and it rang very, um, true to me as well, and I found it to be a very relatable thing.

   2. SBSir Dave Brailsford2:48

      Mm-hmm.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett2:48

      Where did that come from? Where did your conscious sense of outsiderness come from?

   4. SBSir Dave Brailsford2:53

      Uh, it's funny when you say that, because it resonates, it really does. So I was, uh, very young, just been born, and my parents, uh, my dad really, uh, decided to move from Derby, where I was born, to North Wales and, and buy a house in Snowdonia. Very keen climber, and he wanted to go to, to the proximity of the mountains, so he moved over there. And, um, I grew up, it was a very, very Welsh, uh, dominated, Welsh-speaking little village called, uh, Dene Yollwng. I went to primary school there and grew up speaking first language Welsh. All my friends were Welsh. Everybody was Welsh, pretty much apart from my parents.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett3:30

      (laughs)

   6. SBSir Dave Brailsford3:30

      And, um, and I had this sort of conundrum then. I didn't probably realize it at the time, but I certainly on reflection, you know, look back, and, you know, I was very, very much in this Welsh community, very, very tight community. And, and I'd go home and my parents were obviously English parents and, and I felt, you know, my dad didn't really conform. He was there to climb. He was there as this, one of these outsiders who'd come in there to, you know, get up into the mountains and, um, and I think that, that left me challenged I think, because I was so wanted to be the same as all my mates, same as everybody else, part of the tribe, part of the gang. And yet somewhere inside I felt maybe I wasn't quite, you know, I wasn't i- I wasn't fully immersed in it, you know. It wasn't quite there. And don't get me wrong, I, I loved it and I, and I still, I go back there and I love it. I've got, you know, my great friends there, my mum still lives there, but I never actually quite, quite got that full sense of I belong there, you know? So I was always felt that little bit on the outside, I guess.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett4:36

      You went on to be a great anomaly in what you've achieved in your life and success.

   8. SBSir Dave Brailsford4:42

      Mm-hmm.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett4:42

      And I look, I always, I'm always, um, I guess I'm a bit nosy, but I'm al- and I did a little bit of childhood psychology when I was in school. So I try and look at, like, which, what the parental dynamics were that might have made someone that little bit more relentless and that little bit more hardworking.

   10. SBSir Dave Brailsford4:56

       Mm-hmm.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett4:56

       And I sat here with Eddie Hearn and I go, "Oh, your dad."

   12. SBSir Dave Brailsford4:59

       Mm-hmm.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett4:59

       I could tell the way his dad was, that ruthless intensity clearly rubbed off on him at a young age.

   14. SBSir Dave Brailsford5:04

       Mm-hmm.

   15. SBSteven Bartlett5:04

       And I was reading about what you, how you described your dad.

   16. SBSir Dave Brailsford5:07

       Mm-hmm.

   17. SBSteven Bartlett5:07

       And it seemed to be, dare I say it, a little bit similar to...

   18. SBSir Dave Brailsford5:10

       Mm-hmm. Yeah, he was orphaned very, when he was very young. So he lost his mum when he was five, lost his dad when he was seven. And, uh, of course, for anybody, that's gonna have a bit of a big impact, and I think it, he had a, you know, life-changing impact on him. And, um, I think he, he was then fostered and, um, you know, he tells a story when he was, he was growing up in a, in a foster family. Foster family they eat together and they'd make him eat in another room and, you know, not... (laughs) as if he was tough enough, I guess. And I think that's had a profound effect on who he was. And, and he became, um, somebody who was very much, uh, you know, driven to, to make his own way. And I think, you know, that was, um, one of his core, core sort of deep-seated drives and values is that he, he pushed hard and he was always about being professional. It was all about working hard, make your own way.You know, don't rely on anybody else to do anything for you. Do it for yourself. And, um, and he, he drilled that into us. And I think we just lived it really.

   19. SBSteven Bartlett6:10

       And cycling, uh, you were very into cycling from a young age. I, I heard you used to wait on Thursdays for the sort of Cycling newspaper to arrive.

   20. SBSir Dave Brailsford6:18

       Yeah. That's Cycling Weekly, yeah.

   21. SBSteven Bartlett6:19

       Cycling Weekly, yeah.

   22. SBSir Dave Brailsford6:20

       It's a little magazine, was a bit of a, a cult magazine, you know, quite a niche magazine. And that used to arrive, get delivered on a Thursday. And I'd wait with great anticipation and, and, you know, it was one of those when the, the newspapers came round, you get your Cycling Weekly and then you'd sit there and read about all the results and who'd done what. And course there was no, nothing on internet.

   23. SBSteven Bartlett6:39

       Oh. (laughs)

   24. SBSir Dave Brailsford6:39

       There was no, there was no, there's no other way of getting the news, you know.

   25. SBSteven Bartlett6:42

       (laughs)

   26. SBSir Dave Brailsford6:43

       And, and, you know, in the back, there was all these little sections where all the results were, all the race results. And you'd look to see who'd done what and study it all. It was, it was like a real, you know, it's a real part of the cycling culture. And still is, to be fair. Cycling Weekly's still going despite all of the changes in-

   27. SBSteven Bartlett7:00

       Mm-hmm.

   28. SBSir Dave Brailsford7:01

       ... social media and everything else. But, um, I mean, it's, uh, it's a real cornerstone of my growing up with the sport. That's for sure.

   29. SBSteven Bartlett7:08

       You, you then go to school.

   30. SBSir Dave Brailsford7:10

       Mm-hmm.
3. 8:43 – 20:24

   Getting into cycling

   1. SBSteven Bartlett8:43

      guests that sit here, including Jimmy Carr, it very reminded me of him, have that moment usually in their early 20s where they, as you've perfectly described it, there's the thing they should do, usually what their parents want them to do-

   2. SBSir Dave Brailsford8:53

      Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett8:54

      ... uh, what society's tal- told them to do and what they want to do.

   4. SBSir Dave Brailsford8:56

      Mm-hmm.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett8:57

      And in Jimmy's case, it was like quit everything and go and be a comedian, get paid no money-

   6. SBSir Dave Brailsford9:01

      Oh, yeah.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett9:02

      ... because-

   8. SBSir Dave Brailsford9:02

      Yeah, yeah.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett9:02

      ... that's what he wanted to do and take all those unpaid gigs.

   10. SBSir Dave Brailsford9:05

       Yeah.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett9:05

       For you, you set off on a bike-

   12. SBSir Dave Brailsford9:07

       Yeah.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett9:08

       ... to France.

   14. SBSir Dave Brailsford9:08

       Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

   15. SBSteven Bartlett9:09

       That was your breaking out of Wales moment, right?

   16. SBSir Dave Brailsford9:11

       Yeah. And I kind of got this, um ... Uh, it didn't happen overnight, but slowly but surely, I started to really, really get passionate about cycling. Like, really the sport of cycling kind of it had the freedom maybe, but it was a sport of suffering. It was a sport of, of sacrifice. It was, it was a tough sport. And I liked that. And I liked the idea that you were ... it was only you, you know? This ... if you could, you know, it's like the head and heart really. If you, if you're intelligent and, and, and you could figure out how to train and then you had the heart, the commitment, and the desire and the passion to suffer a little bit, and how deep could you go in, you know, that attracted me to cycling. So if you were good, you were good, and if you weren't good, you weren't good. And then, uh, you, uh, played a lot of football in, in all the little, all the sort of junior teams and everything else as we were growing up. And there, you could, you could have a great game and lose or you could be, you know, terrible and win, the team could win.

   17. SBSteven Bartlett10:05

       Mm-hmm.

   18. SBSir Dave Brailsford10:05

       And I kind of liked the, you know, this idea that if what you do really counted in terms of your own performance as it were. That-

   19. SBSteven Bartlett10:13

       Mm-hmm.

   20. SBSir Dave Brailsford10:13

       ... sort of chimed with me. Anyway, I k- I kind of got this passion for the Tour de France and this sort of thing that was kind of happening somewhere in the world. And the more I looked at it, it sort of felt quite, quite gladiatorial, and the mountains and the ... you know, it's, it felt just epic, a three-week race. And, and all I wanted to do is go and, and, and see if I could watch this race. And I got the chance to go and I stood there and I got this passion for it. And in the end, I thought, "Right, I wanna go and try and win that thing." And so I sort of said to my, uh, mum that, "Right, I'm gonna, I'm just gonna jack everything in and I'm gonna go and go to France and, and see if I can become a professional cyclist." And, uh, she was mortified, horrified actually.

   21. SBSteven Bartlett10:56

       (laughs)

   22. SBSir Dave Brailsford10:56

       "You can't. You know what you're thinking? (laughs) You can't go." You know, all this kind of stuff. And I said to my dad, I said, "Listen, I'm gonna jack it all in and I'm gonna go," and he went, "Yes!"

   23. SBSteven Bartlett11:04

       (laughs)

   24. SBSir Dave Brailsford11:05

       He loved it, yeah. That's all I needed to hear, you know? Once I heard that, then I was like, "Right. It's okay. I'm going." And so I got a single ticket to, uh, Grenoble and got on my bike in a cardboard box, rucksack, uh, 700 quid, and got a ticket (laughs) to Bangor station in North Wales and off I went. I don't think I'd ever really kind of had to cross... Remember having to cross London on the tube with my bike in a box and rucksack, that was a real ordeal for me. Got down to, uh, Dover, crossed on a ferry, got to Calais, and I was sitting there and somebody came along and said, you know, "Do you want a coffee or whatever, or a drink in, um," you know, on the train. And it kind of dawned on me then, I thought-

   25. SBSteven Bartlett11:45

       (laughs)

   26. SBSir Dave Brailsford11:45

       ... "Oh shit." (laughs)

   27. SBSteven Bartlett11:47

       (laughs)

   28. SBSir Dave Brailsford11:47

       "I haven't got a clue what's going on here." (laughs) When I got there, I was trying to find out I wanted to go to a place called Argentiere. That was my destination. And, um, I didn't know there was two.

   29. SBSteven Bartlett11:58

       (laughs)

   30. SBSir Dave Brailsford11:58

       And so there's two Argentieres, it turns out. So I went, I was trying to ask this guy in, um-To, to buy a ticket to Argentiere, and he was, he- he's just being awkward. He, you know, he could see I couldn't speak French, and obviously, he wasn't making much of an effort either. And then these two quite young guys came along, and they said, "Oh, can we help you? You know, we speak French and, and English." I'm like, "Oh, thanks." So they helped out, and it turned out they were Polish, and they were two lads trying to defect from Poland (laughs) 'cause it was still communist. And they were trying to get into university in, um, in Grenoble. And so the very first night I had in France, we slept head to toe, sleeping bags on this thing, and these two Polish... Like, they were petrified-
4. 20:24 – 31:14

   Helping people find their motivation

   1. SBSir Dave Brailsford20:24

   2. SBSteven Bartlett20:24

      I love... I... So much of that I, I wanted to pick up on. The, the point you made first about learning, it resonates so strongly with me. Again, um, I was kicked out of school, but-

   3. SBSir Dave Brailsford20:33

      Ah.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett20:33

      ... just exceptionally obsessed with learning as an adult.

   5. SBSir Dave Brailsford20:37

      Mm-hmm.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett20:37

      And it goes to, speaks to the fact that, um-

   7. SBSir Dave Brailsford20:40

      Mm-hmm.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett20:40

      ... this... The reason my attendance was 30% in school was I was being pushed to walk down an alley I didn't wanna walk down.

   9. SBSir Dave Brailsford20:46

      Yeah, exactly, exactly.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett20:46

       You know what I mean?

   11. SBSir Dave Brailsford20:47

       Yeah, totally. Yeah, totally, totally.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett20:48

       And everyone's unmotivated when you try and get them to do something that they intrinsically don't wanna do, right?

   13. SBSir Dave Brailsford20:52

       Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett20:53

       And this is, I think, a lot of the problem with the schooling system, but when I ref-... As you were talking, I was reflecting all of these messages I get from kids who, like, label themselves as unmotivated, but in whose eyes, right? In the eyes of their parents who want them to be a doctor-

   15. SBSir Dave Brailsford21:05

       Mm-hmm.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett21:06

       ... or in the eyes of society that wants them to do a nine-to-five?

   17. SBSir Dave Brailsford21:08

       Yeah.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett21:08

       But I, I reject the idea that they are unmotivated, you know?

   19. SBSir Dave Brailsford21:12

       Oh, a million percent, I couldn't agree more. You know, and I've s-... I've worked with a lot of people over the years, and, um, I think you gotta find out what, what's their... what's an individual's intrinsic motivate... what's driving somebody inside, what they really wanna do, and you've gotta unleash that in the end.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett21:26

       Mm-hmm.

   21. SBSir Dave Brailsford21:26

       You know, that's what life's about, isn't it, really?

   22. SBSteven Bartlett21:29

       Mm-hmm.

   23. SBSir Dave Brailsford21:29

       There's nobody... There shouldn't be any... We shouldn't be pigeonholed, and, and there shouldn't be lines and, and lanes. And I'm very, very, very lucky that I try and get to help other people be the best version of themselves, basically. And you think... You know, it, it... When you, when you no longer compete for yourself, and you think, "Right, I'm gonna be judged on somebody else's performance," that's what people judge me on. They go like, "Well, did somebody else win a race?" Not me. I can't... You know, I'm never gonna win a race. But th- that... It's like, "Did somebody else win a race?" And then you realize, "Well, if I'm gonna be judged on, on somebody else's performance, I better get pretty good at understanding how to optimize and help somebody be the best they could possibly be." And then you think, "Well, what, what does that look like? Well, how do you... How... What... Where's the s-... Where's... What is that?" You know? And that's where you think, "Well, let's take the human being as a, as a thing." (laughs) And you think, "How do you get... help a human being be the best they could possibly be?" Are there certain things that, if you can generally get those things right, it helps an individual, in the main, be the best version of themselves? But the first thing you gotta ask is, like, "Is that person... What is that person's internal intrinsic drive?" 'Cause if it's not aligned, if they're not really committed and really driven and excited to what you would like them to be, it doesn't matter how much you'd like (laughs) them to be. If they're not, they're not, and there's nothing you can do about that, you know? But if there's a little bit of a flicker of, of, of, of the light burning there, you can turn that up, I think, and you can turn it down. You can very easily turn it off by mistake, or deliberately if you're s-... if that way minded. But I think you do... The, the very essence of people achieving things is, is they've gotta be driven or they got... there's gotta be a, a reward. I mean, avoiding... You know, avoidance is a very, very strong motivator as well, I think, and, you know, maybe I, I'd argue that maybe in my life, I was avoiding failure or d-... you know, that... rather than being dragged towards the positive emotion of, of winning. And the positive emotion of winning for me isn't that great, unfortunately. I wish it was. But avoiding failure is massive driver for me. So, um... And so, you know, either way, you figure out what somebody's drive is, and then you help them. Then you think about what you need to do to create the environment around somebody to optimize what they're doing, and then, and then you've really gotta put yourself in somebody else's shoes and forget yourself, forget your preconcept, really genuinely sort of say, "Right, I'm gonna stand in this per- person's shoes. I'm gonna try and see what life looks like for them and feel what life, life looks like for them and really understand, regardless of what any preconceptions I might have, what, what does that feeling look like, and what do they need?"What would the best thing I could do? What do they need to help or support? The more you go through that, the more you kinda recognize as we're all different, but there are some common denominators deep down inside, I think. And, um, and if you take the time to listen to people, they might not wanna tell you first and foremost, but if you dig away at it, you know, eventually people will tell you what works for them, what they like, what they don't like. And if you listen carefully, you know, people, you get a bit- give them a bit of ownership, and they'll tell you, you know. And then- and- and- and that is probably one of the most powerful drivers, I think, that- that exists really.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett24:55

       Yeah.

   25. SBSir Dave Brailsford24:55

       You know, you can put a gun to somebody's head, ask them to jump up and down, they'll jump up and down. You cock it, you cock the trigger and say, "Jump higher," they'll jump higher, or they'll try to anyway. And then you put it away, and- and- and you walk away. And- and they're not gonna... That- that is not a pleasant experience. It's used a lot, and it's used a lot in sport actually. And so less so now, but certainly has been in the past. And, um, but your performance is gonna be inconsistent, I think, through that, and that is certainly not gonna be a very pleasurable experience. And- and I think by going down the route of trying to find people's carrots, as it were, I mean, you'll have known, I'm sure you've- I think you've- you've interviewed Steve, haven't you?

   26. SBSteven Bartlett25:32

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   27. SBSir Dave Brailsford25:33

       Steve Peters, I mean, amazing guy.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett25:34

       Oh, yeah. Unbelievable.

   29. SBSir Dave Brailsford25:35

       And, um, and his work, I think, is just phenomenal, and- and something I buy into. But I- I do believe there is carrot not stick.

   30. SBSteven Bartlett25:43

       On that point of, um, finding out what their true motivation is-
5. 31:14 – 36:32

   C.O.R.E

   1. SBSteven Bartlett31:14

      That word "commitment" is, um, the first letter in your acronym, C.O.R.E.-

   2. SBSir Dave Brailsford31:19

      Mm-hmm.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett31:19

      ... which is part, it's, it's a philosophy you're known for. What is this C.O.R.E. philosophy? What is that acrony-acronym, and, uh, what, w- what does it stand for?

   4. SBSir Dave Brailsford31:27

      Well, to, to be fair to, you know, I just mentioned Steve Peters. I think, um, you know, one of the great things I think that I've been very, very fortunate to, to have happen in my life was that, uh, we, I met Steve back in, I think it was 2002, something li- you know, around that. I, I was always into, you know, I liked psychology. Obviously, I'd studied psychology, but I couldn't quite, it wasn't quite input/output enough. It wasn't... I don't know. It didn't feel quite solid enough at times. And then, uh, we had an athlete who had, um, you know, had a, a bit of an issue and, um, somebody within our medical team had been a student of Steve's at the, uh, school of medicine in, uh, in, uh, Sheffield. And they s- said, "Well, we've gotta ask this guy to come across," and he did, and, and he did this amazing piece of work (laughs) with, with, with this athlete. I thought, "Wow, I really gotta meet this guy." And so I sat down, uh, with Steve, and he's a psychiatrist, not a psychologist, obviously, a forensic psychiatrist. And he sat down and he said, "Right, well, here's my mental kind of map," as it were, "and this is how your brain works, and this is the different parts of your brain think differently. And, you know, y- you know, you do realize that this different, um, your blood goes to different areas and, and that's... so you'll be driven by e- em- emotion, or logic, or by past experiences, et cetera." And I was like, "Whoa, okay, this is really interesting." And that, what I liked about him, he was like, "If you do this, then that. And you should do this, not that." And he's quite prescriptive, um, in a very neutral way, but quite strong. And, um, I really liked that. Really, really liked that. So I thought, "Wow, this guy (laughs) would be absolutely dynamite in sport." And so Steve was still working in, um, in the n- uh, NHS, and he was actually working at Rampton at the time as well with, you know, the mass murderers and the psychopaths and all of that. And so I tried to persuade him, I said, "Steve, come on, you've gotta come and work in sport." And, and eventually, you know, he, he did, to be fair. He came and worked full time, and it was just an amazing period, really. Because we sat down and said, "Right, forget cycling for a minute. Let's think about the human brain, the human being, and how do we create the best possible environment for people to perform?" And, um, and that's where the C.O.R.E. principle came from with Steve in the first instance. So it was like, you know, the C was commitment. So let's, let's screen these people for commitment, and he'd do a commitment screen, and he'd ask people about their homework, how they did their homework and what that... Well, you know, when people had to do something, deliver on something, he'd ask, he'd interrogate them a little bit about that. And then the O of the core was for ownership, and, uh, the idea that we, we th- a human will perform better and respond better with a little bit of ownership over what they're doing. So, you know, sport was very much a dictate and control kind of coaching model, really, and management model. And, um, he was very much of the, of, you know, very, very strong that as a human we like to have a little bit of control of what's happening to us. We like to negotiate or have a little say, "This works, that works," and, and that's a very powerful kind of construct to work with. Um, the R was for responsibility and accountability. And of course, we've all-

   5. SBSteven Bartlett34:34

      Mm-hmm.

   6. SBSir Dave Brailsford34:34

      ... w- work in professional jobs in the end, and we've all got accountability and responsibility in life. And, um, and so people need to be held accountable and responsible. And then the E was for excellence, but it's personal excellence. And as he used to joke about, it should have been personal excellence, but it sounded a bit like corpse.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett34:51

      (laughs)

   8. SBSir Dave Brailsford34:51

      So, uh, we stuck with C.O.R.E.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett34:53

      Yeah. (laughs)

   10. SBSir Dave Brailsford34:53

       And, um, and so we got all the coaches in and said, like, "I, I bought this 100%." Really, really felt, right, we're gonna do this. And then we'll sort of use cycling as the kind of, you know, not... Uh, well, it was the, it was the opportunity to, to do something different, you know. And I was absolutely sure, really, really sure it was the right thing to be doing. Of course, he was there to sort of coach and help and support. And, um, so we got the coaches in and said, "Right, guys, we're gonna change the way we're, we're working here. Um, we're gonna put the..." uh, the time actually, we termed it. Gonna take the crown, um, off the heads of the coaches and put them onto the heads of the riders, and they're gonna be the, um, the kings and queens of their own world, their own destiny, and, and we're gonna support them in that. And it was just that slight change of emphasis which had, you know... A- a lot of the coaches threw their hands in the air, went, "Well, it's... No, it would never... Be out of control. They won't turn up to training." And, you know, it was kind of an emotional response really. And of course, you know, Chris Hoy and Vicky Pendleton and all these other, you know, all of the athletes who, who were with us at the time, they wanted to perform for themselves.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett36:02

       Yeah.

   12. SBSir Dave Brailsford36:03

       They wouldn't perform for a coach. They wouldn't... You know. Uh, they might have a brilliant relationship with the coach, but it was, they, they were, they were after their own performance or team performance. It wasn't, it wasn't done for the coach, and it was a, it was a real... I mean, it sounds a bit-... obvious now, I guess. But at the time, it felt like a, quite a big deal to be, to be really empowering a group of athletes. And, um, yeah, and off we went with that, really. And, um, it was an exciting time.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett36:31

       One of the

6. 36:32 – 39:15

   First principles

   1. SBSteven Bartlett36:32

      things that I- I've taken from that, many things, but one of the things that I've taken from that, which is, again, feels really consistent throughout lots of things I've read about you, is this idea of going back to first principles, to make-

   2. SBSir Dave Brailsford36:42

      Mm-hmm.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett36:42

      ... to create better solutions.

   4. SBSir Dave Brailsford36:44

      Mm-hmm.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett36:44

      And I'll tell you the three touch points where I've kind of, I've, I've seen that in your philosophy. The first is, you basically went down to the first principles of the human brain there-

   6. SBSir Dave Brailsford36:53

      Mm-hmm.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett36:53

      ... and said, "How does the human brain work? And let's treat the human brain in a better way, um, outside of c- the conventional way of treating the human brain to get a better outcome." That's like, again, w- with first principles, it's a lot of work. No one wants to do it. Conventions are much e- much easier. The second thing is just generally your attitude to breaking down what you are trying to achieve-

   8. SBSir Dave Brailsford37:12

      Yeah.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett37:12

      ... as a team, into small sections.

   10. SBSir Dave Brailsford37:13

       Mm-hmm.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett37:13

       That's where I see the first principles thing.

   12. SBSir Dave Brailsford37:15

       Mm-hmm.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett37:15

       And the third thing was, I read that you hired younger coaches into your team that weren't tainted with convention.

   14. SBSir Dave Brailsford37:22

       Mm-hmm.

   15. SBSteven Bartlett37:22

       And again, they're much easier to-

   16. SBSir Dave Brailsford37:23

       Mm-hmm.

   17. SBSteven Bartlett37:23

       ... train in, in, in new ways.

   18. SBSir Dave Brailsford37:25

       Mm-hmm.

   19. SBSteven Bartlett37:25

       Is that?

   20. SBSir Dave Brailsford37:26

       Yes, I think ............................ I think I do like to break things down into, you know, smaller component parts, all, all first principles anyway. It's not copy and paste.

   21. SBSteven Bartlett37:34

       Yeah.

   22. SBSir Dave Brailsford37:34

       You know, I read a lot and, and I'm constantly kind of reading and listening to podcasts.

   23. SBSteven Bartlett37:40

       Mm-hmm.

   24. SBSir Dave Brailsford37:40

       I'm, I'm, I'm constantly taking information in. But, and I'll, and I'll use some of the information, but I won't just copy and paste it. I won't just apply it. It's contextual. I'd like to understand what's going on behind it, like to understand the theory and the thinking. It drives people mad, actually, because it, (laughs) I can talk about methods and whatnot, and models all day long, you know.

   25. SBSteven Bartlett37:59

       Yeah.

   26. SBSir Dave Brailsford38:00

       But, um, fundamentally, it's how I, it's how I like to work. And, um, I think it's, like, the, the true... Take this down to its kind of deepest, sort of simplest level of understanding, and then construct it relative to the context or the situation, how it could best apply to what you're doing.

   27. SBSteven Bartlett38:17

       Mm-hmm.

   28. SBSir Dave Brailsford38:18

       And take the time, you know, take the time and effort and the energy and the... You know, I just like to think about it, and I'll draw it. I'll draw nonstop, right? So I don't write so much. I draw. And then I'll cover my office wall in, like, sticky plastic stuff. (laughs) You know, and draw all over the walls. Looks like a madman's in there, I must admit. But it's how, it's what I like to do, and it's how I work. So it drives a couple of people I work with a bit crazy, but, um, I think they're used to it by now. But, but I do like to do that. And then, and then if you get a real understanding for something, then you can, you can see whether you really agree with the, with the fundamental principles, and either go with what, go with that, or question it and develop your own ideas. And I like development. If you're gonna develop your own ideas, do it sort of, um, with originally, as it were, rather than necessarily just kind of, um, taking something as read and just applying it, you know. Um, I'm, I'd be a bit uncomfortable with that, I think.

   29. SBSteven Bartlett39:14

       One of the things that

7. 39:15 – 48:34

   Forgetting about the result

   1. SBSteven Bartlett39:15

      definitely felt very original-

   2. SBSir Dave Brailsford39:17

      Mm-hmm.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett39:17

      ... when, when I was reading about, um, your philosophy is this idea of forgetting about the result.

   4. SBSir Dave Brailsford39:22

      Mm-hmm.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett39:22

      Because thinking about the result or the outcome-

   6. SBSir Dave Brailsford39:24

      Mm-hmm.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett39:24

      ... of your performance can reduce the chances of success in that performance.

   8. SBSir Dave Brailsford39:28

      Mm-hmm.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett39:29

      That's very unusual, because in, in teams, in competition in business, we think about the result. We think about s- closing the deal, or-

   10. SBSir Dave Brailsford39:36

       Mm-hmm.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett39:36

       ... you know, what, and what that will mean, and we kind of, and, and imagine ourselves at, in that moment-

   12. SBSir Dave Brailsford39:40

       Mm-hmm.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett39:40

       ... of getting the medal around our neck or that business deal won. Why is that not a good idea?

   14. SBSir Dave Brailsford39:45

       Well, if, ev- if an event happens, if something happens, the first thing that's gonna happen to you, without you even knowing, is you're gonna have an unconscious emotional reaction to it. And it'll be, it's emotion. It's not, you're not thinking it through. It's just purely emotion. And that, that, that's gonna be, you know, either a sort of a fight, flight, freeze response, really. And, um, but that, that emotional s- um, response will happen quicker than you know it, before you can go and, and get any logic or, or get any rationale into, into it. And of course, in, um, in any kind of situation like, uh, you know, what could be perceived as a threat state, where you're putting yourself in, in some kind of threatening scenario, be it, "I've damaged my pride," or, you know, what people, what happens to people? They start thinking, "Well, wha- what happens if I win? What happens if I lose? What happens if I look ridiculous? I don't wanna look ridiculous. Wha- I'm under threat." And that then becomes, you know, very easy to get emotionally hijacked by that. So then you're purely running on, on emotion, which is inconsistent. It's illogical. You know, it's not a, it, it's not a good way for you to be basing... Well, it's not a good place for you to be basing your, your behavior. But if you understand that and you think, "Okay, well, look, I, I understand that it's normal that I'm gonna put myself in a threatening scenario." So if I worry about, uh, let, let my emotion take over and I worry about, "What happens if I succeed? What happens if I fail? What happens if this? What happens if that?" then it, it's actually pointless exercise. And if you can train, slowly recognize and train your mind to go, "Okay, I know what's happened here. This is just emotion. I'm gonna put it to one side." Now then, let me separate this whatever I'm doing out into two things. We can have a, a dream. "I wanna win the Tour de France" is a dream. My ability to win it, or our ability, or anybody else's, to win it, is, "I'm gonna do my absolute best to try and win it, but other people are gonna try and stop me, and other people are gonna try to do something." It's stuff beyond our control that could impact on that. So if you set your goal as, "I'm going to win," you're gonna agitate nonstop, because it actually is out of your control. Uh, whereas if you set your dream as saying, "This is what I'd really, really like to happen. I'll go all in. I'll do everything I can. I'm fully committed to that, but let me break it down into targets," which is, well, to be, "I, I could get to the ideal weight. I could do the proper training. I could do the, you know, follow a nutritional plan that's gonna give me the optimal energy and, you know, I can train my tactics. I can be, really work hard to get a fantastic team around me, build good rapport, or build confidence in my teammates." These are all things that you can do. And so, if you say, "Okay, let's leave the dream over there for a while, but I'm gonna go after the things I can do," and you base your plan around the things that you can actually control and do, you'll be on fire.... you'll be on fire. You'll be absolutely on fire. And the dream might happen, and it might not. And you'll be absolutely oh, you know, delighted, and best thing ever if it happens. And if it doesn't, then you might be absolutely devastated. But you gotta leave it as a dream, and you gotta understand that actually worrying about the consequence of an event is detrimental to the process and the performance and the, the chances of you achieving that event. So you park that. Go after your targets and go, "Right, I'm going process, not outcome." And we talk a lot about process, not outcome. And when you catch yourselves, you know, it's, uh, it, it's emotion in the end, so of course we do get hijacked and of course we do get fearful or, you know, a bit panicked. And you gotta, you gotta have a system whereby you can talk to yourself a little bit. You can bring yourself back round and focus on the now and the process of now rather than worrying about the future.

   15. SBSteven Bartlett43:16

       Mm-hmm.

   16. SBSir Dave Brailsford43:16

       And then you can come back and concentrate on the process, get back into the now. And, you know, some of the athletes would, would have a routine where they'd tie their shoe-, undo and tie their shoelaces again. Or they'd do, they'd have a little, you know, a little process that they'd tap into, and they'd go into that, in, into that and bring their mind back into the present and stop worrying about the future. And, um, of course, the penalty kick's the best example of that.

   17. SBSteven Bartlett43:38

       Yeah, that's what I was thinking about.

   18. SBSir Dave Brailsford43:40

       Yeah.

   19. SBSteven Bartlett43:40

       Ronaldo stood there-

   20. SBSir Dave Brailsford43:41

       Yeah.

   21. SBSteven Bartlett43:41

       I'm sure they, they bag 100% in training-

   22. SBSir Dave Brailsford43:44

       Yeah, exactly.

   23. SBSteven Bartlett43:44

       ... but in the Euros final... (laughs)

   24. SBSir Dave Brailsford43:46

       Exactly. You know, and if you take the crowd out and take a penalty, those guys are so accurate in the, you know, the signal from the brain down into the muscle to cr- contract in a certain way, that happens, and the accuracy and the, and the repeatability of that is, is absolutely massive. Put a crowd in there, and what, what changes? Well, nothing changes physically. It's all between your ears.

   25. SBSteven Bartlett44:05

       Mm-hmm.

   26. SBSir Dave Brailsford44:06

       And so how can you train that? You know. And, and mental skills can be trained just as much as your... You know, we all know that w- we wanna get fit and strong, and you go to the gym, and you know that you're gonna overload your body, and you give it time to adapt, and it's the adaptation that's gonna make you a little bit stronger. And it's the same with the mind. You know, you can train your mind, and, and I think that's what certainly working with Steve was, um, was an eye-opener. As well as, I think probably the biggest eye-opener for most people is it gives you a... Once you realize you've got, like, an emotional brain and a logical brain and, um, you know, a bit of a memory, computer side going on, then, then it gives you insight into yourself and why you are behaving and feeling like you are, and some of the assumptions you're making about other people. And you gotta start with yourself first. If you can get that little bit of insight, "Why do I feel how I'm feeling? Why do I respond like I do? What triggers me? What's my best self look like? And what's my sort of, you know, not the best self look like? Why, why am I different? Why, why sometimes am I behaving in this kind of, you know, this second or th- the shadow version of myself? And why

   27. NANarrator45:08

       (laughs)

   28. SBSir Dave Brailsford45:09

       ... am I sometimes my best self? What's happening there? Why can't I just be my best self all the time? Surely that must be doable." So, take a bit of time to understand it, unpick it. And some people just maybe haven't been educated. I certainly wasn't until really I sort of sto- sort of stopped and started to look at this stuff. And then you realize, you think, "Wow, a lot of my behavior, a lot of my life was driven by emotion. It wasn't driven by the real me who could be calm and logical and think things through and quite... You know, I have a lot of passion and feelings and caring, and, and yet at times I could be something else." You know. And I think understanding that's fundamental, I think. I don't think there's any excuse for that, really.

   29. SBSteven Bartlett45:46

       No, I agree. Um, both points sounded very similar, in fact, because y- on one hand you're saying with your goals, only go after things you can control. Like, really focus on those things. And in the same way, when we're talking about personal responsibility of self, you're saying you can't control other people.

   30. SBSir Dave Brailsford46:01

       Mm-hmm.
8. 48:34 – 52:18

   How to build motivation after victory?

   1. SBSteven Bartlett48:34

      over and over and over again, in the same way that Sir Alex Ferguson did. I'm a Manchester United fan, so I was lucky enough to be, you know, it's not going so well lately, but in that era, to watch our team win-

   2. SBSir Dave Brailsford48:44

      Yeah, amazing.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett48:44

      ... over and over again.

   4. SBSir Dave Brailsford48:45

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett48:46

      And the thing that really, um, I find, 'cause I just thought that was normal growing up.

   6. SBSir Dave Brailsford48:51

      Mm-hmm.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett48:51

      That my team wins all the time.

   8. SBSir Dave Brailsford48:52

      Yeah.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett48:53

      The thing I find amazing now when I look back on it is how he managed to reinvent those teams, but also to get the same team-

   10. SBSir Dave Brailsford48:59

       Mm-hmm.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett48:59

       ... to win again. And I, this c- this idea of, like, where is your motivation after victory?

   12. SBSir Dave Brailsford49:05

       Mm-hmm.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett49:05

       And how do you get a team that's just won and then they win again?

   14. SBSir Dave Brailsford49:08

       Mm-hmm.

   15. SBSteven Bartlett49:08

       And they win again, to win again.

   16. SBSir Dave Brailsford49:10

       Mm-hmm. Yeah.

   17. SBSteven Bartlett49:10

       Where do they find the motivation? They've stood on the podium, they've had the moment, where does that come from?

   18. SBSir Dave Brailsford49:14

       Yeah, it's a great question, that one. And I think, um, and I think credit to Sir Alex and the work that he did. I mean, um, you know, I think now looking back, there are, there are those long-serving successful managers who, like you say, whi- whilst it's happening, it's an era, and nobody really kind of thinks too much, it's just the norm. But then when you realize it's not actually the norm at all, you know, it's-

   19. SBSteven Bartlett49:34

       (laughs)

   20. SBSir Dave Brailsford49:34

       ... it's something very, very special going on. And I think the, I think success is interesting in, in, in terms of what it does to people. And, you know, I think in sport we're kind of more geared to failure, really. You lose more than you win normally. And, um, you know, we kind of recalibrate the goals, dust yourself down, and redo your plan, and off you go again. But when you succeed, all of a sudden... Not many people have a, a plan for success, do you know what I mean? So you succeed, nobody's gotta (laughs) , nobody wants to tempt fate, I guess. But not many people have a plan for success. And it does, it does impact on people massively in terms of their expectation on themselves, on their, in terms of their hunger going forward. You know, it does, it does impact people in different ways. And of course you get more, you probably get financially better off, your, your ro- your, your position in society changes, you know, who you are, you become a celebrity, whatever, whatever, whatever. And of course all that, all that can change and impact on your drive and your hunger. And I think fundamentally, that's the bit that's incredible about the people who stay at the top for a long time. It's not really the reward and, you know, what they, what they're getting sort of financially, you know, all of the, those other kind of sort of, um, trappings of, of success. I don't think that's what driving them. You know, there's something else deeper down driving those people forward, and they'll just keep going and going and going. And I thought what, um, Alex Ferguson did ever so well was he... Th- there's always a challenge with teams when you've got a generation who grow together, and they come together, and you'll have a two, three, four years of amazing success with a group who've bonded and they're on a journey together. And of course then you start to get towards the end of that, and at what point do you bring young talent in and let some of the more established talent go, you know, and is there a, a transition? And he did that ever so well. He really did that e- ever so well. And we met and c- and chatted a couple of times about that, is when, when I was younger, up in the velodrome in Manchester, he'd pop over to, to the velodrome and we'd sit there and chat. And, and that was always one of the big things I wanted to ask him, you know, is like, "Okay, what, what are you watching? What are you seeing? Uh, w- why are you doing this? What, you know, what have you seen there that makes you think that's the right time to change and you're bringing this youngster in here, you know?" And he'd say, you know, he, he'd, he'd quite often say that, um, you know, people get a bigger voice, they get a bigger standing in the dressing room, they might start to second, you know, "Uh, I'm not so sure about that, gaffer." You know? They'd, and they'd have an influence and, you know, there'd be celebrity and the media and other things going on, et cetera, et cetera. And, and definitely sooner rather than later, that would be, "Right, okay, off we go." He'd, and he'd change it. Listening to him talk about it, he, he knew exactly what he was doing, to be fair to him, and he was a master at it.

   21. SBSteven Bartlett52:14

       You've got to have had moments like that in your career where you see that culture-

9. 52:18 – 1:00:17

   How to make tough decisions

   1. SBSteven Bartlett52:18

   2. SBSir Dave Brailsford52:18

      Mm-hmm.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett52:19

      ... at threat or at risk-

   4. SBSir Dave Brailsford52:21

      Yeah, yeah.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett52:21

      ... because of an individual. I've had them in my business too. And in those moments very early in my career, I would try and I guess look past, when I was a bit more naive in business, look past it or put things in place to try and mitigate the impact that one individ- the negative impact that one individual was having on the o- overall culture.

   6. SBSir Dave Brailsford52:39

      Mm-hmm.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett52:40

      And as I got older, I realized that I just needed to address the situation ASAP-

   8. SBSir Dave Brailsford52:44

      (laughs)

   9. SBSteven Bartlett52:44

      ... before it becomes like a virus and spreads, right?

   10. SBSir Dave Brailsford52:46

       Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett52:46

       What do you do in that situation when you, when you see an individual in your company-

   12. SBSir Dave Brailsford52:50

       It's a tough one. It's a tough one. I- it really is. I mean, it's, it's an easy one to talk about, it's a very difficult one to do. Um, particularly when, you know, that might be your best player, your best rider-

   13. SBSteven Bartlett53:01

       Even worse. (laughs)

   14. SBSir Dave Brailsford53:02

       ... your best performer. And, and all of a sudden you've got the hit in the numbers, and, and the behavior's not great. And, um, then you gotta ask yourself, "Well, are we after just winning and it doesn't really matter, just win?" Um, b- and, and you kind of manage the impact of that across everybody. Or does behavior and, and conduct and culture matter, and you wanna make sure that you actually have got some cultural values that you're gonna stand by come, come what may? You know, and, and of course, those real moments when they do arrive and you've got to address it, they're very, very stressful. I, I kind of get very introspective and look at myself in the mirror and think it through and think it through. And, and everybody who works with me will say it takes me time to make a decision. And I think it's because I think of every permutation, and I think it through so much. Emotionally, I fully in- I g- I don't think I can't, actually. (laughs) I'm just so engaged with those things that I've really, really got to think carefully about them. And I've had to make a couple of pretty big decisions along, along those lines. And in the end, I thought, "Right, what do I believe in?" Is it a popular decision? Is it a performance decision? W- in my world, you know, there's like, "Are we, are we trying to win here? Or do we wanna keep people happy? Or where, pff, where do we go?" And, and you need some kind of, you need to establish your own, "Right, what do I believe in?"

   15. SBSteven Bartlett54:25

       Mm-hmm.

   16. SBSir Dave Brailsford54:26

       And without really figuring out what you believe in, you're always gonna be caught in a storm otherwise. And it's always gonna be mentally excruciating, I think, 'cause you're never quite sure. So I, I like, like to s- to anchor myself in, "Right, what are my values, what do I believe in, and how does that apply to this situation?" And then, okay, well...That's it. And if it goes wrong, I always wanna be able to look back and say, "Okay, well, I made decisions based on my principles. I didn't make decisions based on that particular moment, doesn't matter how difficult it was. And I'll stick to that." And I've had, I've had one r- quite recently actually, or two actually, in the last two to three months, which were pretty challenging dec- dec- decisions like that. And on both occasions, I've gone right back. And I tend to, I don't know if it's a good thing, probably not a good thing for the people around me, but I've got a few, you know, people I really value their opinion, you know. And, and they're sort of like, you know, I'll, I'll chat away to them, and I'll ask them questions. And, and I think sometimes they think, "Okay, I'm gonna make that decision," or, "He's asking me to make this decision." And what I'm trying to do is just kind of run through my thought processes and sound it out, sound it out, and sound it out sound it out, until I get really pre-anchored onto, "No, I know what I really feel now." And then I'll make the decision immediately. I, I won't hesitate then. But to get to that point takes me a bit of time, and I need to talk about it to somebody. I need to, I need to express it vocally, I think, to really make sure I understand what I'm thinking. Because if I can't explain it to somebody, I'm maybe not quite there. So just thinking about it in my own head, or even writing it down for myself, on big stuff I like to try and be able to explain it to somebody to then understand fully that I really... If I can explain it to somebody, I think I've pretty much got it. Whereas if I just i- in my head explained it to myself, (laughs) who knows what the hell I'm talking about, you know? So yeah, it's quite, um, it's a, quite an agonizing process. But you just need your principles in the end. You need a decision-making-

   17. SBSteven Bartlett56:18

       Framework.

   18. SBSir Dave Brailsford56:19

       ... framework, yeah.

   19. SBSteven Bartlett56:20

       Yeah, based on principle.

   20. SBSir Dave Brailsford56:20

       You do, yeah.

   21. SBSteven Bartlett56:21

       And it's so funny, 'cause everyone can relate to that, even if they've not been in your position.

   22. SBSir Dave Brailsford56:23

       Mm-hmm.

   23. SBSteven Bartlett56:23

       I mean, we all have, we all face really tough moments-

   24. SBSir Dave Brailsford56:26

       Mm-hmm.

   25. SBSteven Bartlett56:26

       ... where we kind of arrive at that, that pass, and we have to decide if we're going left or right. And (clears throat) the worst possible thing is making, often making no decision, right?

   26. SBSir Dave Brailsford56:34

       Making no decision or, or making a decision that you thought was the right decision because you thought it was the right thing to do, but it wasn't actually what you thought. And I think we're always fearful of the consequences of our decisions. I think quite often... And I say to our guys sometimes, "Okay, imagine, let's, let's imagine we've got a problem. And take away, you know, we're gonna have a group discussion about something. And imagine that all of our riders didn't have emotions, they were just robots. And what would you do?" And they go, "Oh, simple. You'd, well, you'd just do this, this, and this." Okay, so now we put the emotions back in, and that's, that's... What's that doing to you? Why is that changing your thinking? And then, of course, you don't... You know, you've got people's feelings, and there, you might have conflict, you know, you might, somebody might not be happy. And you know, it, that, that then impacts, 'cause we's trying to second-guess the emotional response of a group, or you're trying to second-guess how somebody might feel or whether they're gonna come at you, or it creates conflict, or... You know, and, and, and so I think it's every now and again, I go, "Right, okay, let's just have the robots. Let's, what would we do? What would be the best thing to do?" And they go, "Simple, we'll just do this." And so that's, that's one thing. I think if you think that right, it, the consequence of whatever we're deciding about, nothing bad happens.

   27. SBSteven Bartlett57:47

       Hm.

   28. SBSir Dave Brailsford57:48

       Nothing bad happens. Absolutely. There is... So you can make any decision you want and nothing happens, nothing bad happens. What would you do? And people's mind freed up immediately. They'll make a good decision probably. But it's fear or it's the, it's the, it's the, it's the consequence of this might happen or that might happen, or it might go wrong, or this or that or the other. They might not be happy, or they might not be ha- (laughs) You know?

   29. SBSteven Bartlett58:10

       Mm-hmm.

   30. SBSir Dave Brailsford58:10

       And it impacts your decision-making really. So you're getting all these biases, these emotional biases all the time. And don't get me wrong, sometimes a gut, gut feel is a good thing, you know, so... But on the other hand, I think if you just strip out the consequence of, like, nothing bad would happen-
10. 1:00:17 – 1:08:33

    Marginal gains

    1. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:17

       this podcast is doing very well. Uh, I think it's maybe number o- one in Europe now. But I have to give you a lot of credit for that.

    2. SBSir Dave Brailsford1:00:25

       (laughs)

    3. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:25

       Because I think my team are sick and tired... I can see them laughing over there. They're sick and tired of me saying this phrase, "We've got to find the 1%."

    4. SBSir Dave Brailsford1:00:31

       Mm-hmm.

    5. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:31

       And for us in what we do with this podcast, I mean, it's, it's in my businesses as well, but in this podcast, it means, like, really giving a F about everything from the audio to these eight cameras that are on us.

    6. SBSir Dave Brailsford1:00:43

       Yeah.

    7. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:43

       Nobody else does it like we do it, with eight cameras and the robots and the s- and the thumbnail, the title, the way you were picked up today-

    8. SBSir Dave Brailsford1:00:50

       Yeah. Amazing, yeah.

    9. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:50

       ... to how you're leaved, to ch- really make... even when you walk in, the, the... we were a l- little bit slow on it today, but the music to create the right-

    10. SBSir Dave Brailsford1:00:56

        Yeah.

    11. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:56

        ... atmosphere-

    12. SBSir Dave Brailsford1:00:57

        Yeah.

    13. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:57

        ... the lighting. We installed these blinds here because we're trying to... we want you looking at me-

    14. SBSir Dave Brailsford1:01:01

        Mm-hmm.

    15. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:01

        ... because it's a better q-

    16. SBSir Dave Brailsford1:01:02

        Mm-hmm.

    17. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:02

        All of these small things. And I never heard that directly from you, but I heard it indirectly by you, as in my friends would tell me about this thing called marginal gains-

    18. SBSir Dave Brailsford1:01:11

        Mm-hmm.

    19. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:11

        ... from this guy called-

    20. SBSir Dave Brailsford1:01:12

        Mm-hmm.

    21. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:13

        ... Sir David, David Brailsford, and I, like, adopted it as a personal philosophy. Maybe I adopted it as a personal philosophy, or it made my existing philosophy make sense.

    22. SBSir Dave Brailsford1:01:21

        Oh, okay, yeah. Yeah, probably, probably.

    23. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:22

        Ei- either one.

    24. SBSir Dave Brailsford1:01:22

        Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    25. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:22

        You know, sometimes you hear an idea and you go, "That's-

    26. SBSir Dave Brailsford1:01:24

        Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    27. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:25

        ... that's the, that's the, a great way to communicate."

    28. SBSir Dave Brailsford1:01:26

        Somebody articulates it for you. Yeah.

    29. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:26

        Exactly. You articulated it for me. And, um, so thank you for that. But my, I guess, my question, because that has genuinely really helped me-

    30. SBSir Dave Brailsford1:01:32

        Mm-hmm.

Episode duration: 1:35:27