Emma Grede: Work-life balance is your problem to solve

1. 0:00 – 2:17

   Intro

   1. EGEmma Grede0:00

      Work-life balance is your problem. It isn't the employer's responsibility. Look, I have four kids and I had to figure out how I would think about my own ambition balanced with my parenting. That's the truth. And we have to have a level of honesty about what it takes to be really successful.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett0:15

      But is it possible to be number one, but still have all of my evenings and weekends?

   3. EGEmma Grede0:18

      No, you're not... No, no. Uh, if, if you, if it's possible, tell me who she is, and I'll show you a liar. (instrumental music plays)

   4. SBSteven Bartlett0:24

      Emma Greed has rewritten the fashion business rule book.

   5. NANarrator0:26

      As the co-founder of multi-billion dollar brands like Good American and SKIMS with the Kardashians...

   6. SBSteven Bartlett0:31

      She's now revealing the secrets behind her unstoppable success. You know this Emma here?

   7. EGEmma Grede0:36

      Where'd you get these photos?

   8. SBSteven Bartlett0:37

      How old are you here?

   9. EGEmma Grede0:38

      15.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett0:38

       And how do you feel about her?

   11. EGEmma Grede0:40

       I feel like this person was like, dying to escape her circumstances. I was raised by a single mom, one of four girls, and I had a very big hand in raising them to help my mom keep our family afloat. But I thank God every day for the type of upbringing that I had because it was hammered into me that nothing is going to come easy. And, and that made me who I am, gritty. Fast-forward and I'm an apparel CEO, someone who goes out and raises hundreds of millions of dollars, somebody who starts an agency in multiple countries. I had zero qualifications to do any of that. Like, I didn't have talent, as a designer, but I would just make it happen.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett1:18

       There's a lot of things I wanna go into there. What are the three most important things in being successful in business? Do you think it's possible for someone to make themself gritty? How do we not give so many (beep) ?

   13. EGEmma Grede1:27

       My speciality...

   14. SBSteven Bartlett1:28

       And then pitch Chloé?

   15. EGEmma Grede1:30

       Mm-hmm.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett1:30

       What was that journey like?

   17. EGEmma Grede1:31

       I'll tell you the truth. (laughs)

   18. SBSteven Bartlett1:35

       This has always blown my mind a little bit. 53% of you that listen to this show regularly haven't yet subscribed to this show. So could I ask you for a favor before we start? If you like this show and you like what we do here and you wanna support us, the free, simple way that you can do just that is by hitting the subscribe button. And my commitment to you is, if you do that, then I'll do everything in my power, me and my team, to make sure that this show is better for you every single week. We'll listen to your feedback, we'll find the guests that you want me to speak to, and we'll continue to do what we do. Thank you so much. (instrumental music plays) Emma, what do I need to understand about your earliest context in order to understand the woman, the very, very unique woman, the very successful woman that has sat

2. 2:17 – 3:58

   Becoming Emma Grede

   1. SBSteven Bartlett2:17

      in front of me today? And when I ask that question, I'm looking for the characteristics that were most formative in creating the woman that is Emma.

   2. EGEmma Grede2:28

      What a great way to start. I think that that's a great question for me because so much of who I am and how I feel about who I am comes from where I'm from. And, you know, I s- I say it all the time, I'm from East London. I like to make that distinction because I feel like such a Londoner and I feel like that, you know, being from East London, coming from that place, is so much a part of my character, it's so much a part of what is important to me, like, that idea of being, you know, someone that is reliable, someone that is honest, not just, you know, sometimes, but all the time. And I'm one of four girls, I was raised by a single mom, and it was so much kind of hammered into me that this is where you're from, this is not where you need to stay, the world is your oyster, you can do anything, you're just gonna have to work really, really hard. And I think all around me, I saw a lot of people that were working hard, I saw a lot of people that were hustling and doing what they needed to do just to get through the day, but I had this feeling very much inside of me that if I wanted more for myself, it was all completely within reach. And I think that really came from this, like, East London mentality and all the people that were around me.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett3:48

      I didn't need to do my research to realize that you are a big sister.

   4. EGEmma Grede3:51

      (laughs)

   5. SBSteven Bartlett3:53

      'Cause you've got some serious big sister energy. Even with me, we've known each other for a little while now.

   6. EGEmma Grede3:57

      Yeah.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett3:57

      So

3. 3:58 – 11:06

   Acting as the Mum and Raising My Siblings

   1. SBSteven Bartlett3:58

      you're the oldest of four sisters?

   2. EGEmma Grede3:59

      I am, indeed.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett4:01

      How did that shape you?

   4. EGEmma Grede4:02

      I think in a really big way. You know, I have a pretty interesting relationship with my mom. Uh, you know, my dad left when we were much younger. And our family dynamic is like, she's the dad, I'm the mom, and we have three kids together.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett4:15

      (laughs)

   6. EGEmma Grede4:15

      And, and I really, you know, I think if you asked any of my sisters, they'd say Emma had this very big hand in raising us, in, in being pretty formative in our childhood. You know, I would get up as a kid, I'd iron three school shirts, I'd make three packed lunches, my mom would, you know, go off to work. I'd get all the kids in school and half the time turn back around and come home to watch This Morning. (laughs)

   7. SBSteven Bartlett4:38

      (laughs)

   8. EGEmma Grede4:39

      Um, that, that was my life, you know. Uh, there was the odd day I decided to stay there, but more often than not, I was just, you know, about trying to help my mom keep our family afloat. And I think that that made me super responsible at an early age, but it also gave me a very early indication of like, how I didn't wanna live my life. I knew that the milkman hadn't been paid, I knew that there were bills dropping on the, you know, on the doormat kind of every day, and I felt that at a very young age and I felt the heaviness of that, and I knew it was all down to my mom to, uh, to make ends meet and to, and to figure that out so that we could all be okay. And I, and I f- kind of decided at a very, very young age that I didn't want any of that anxiety and I didn't want that heaviness to, to stay around and to weigh on me as I grew up.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett5:28

      I feel like children aren't supposed to grow up with the heaviness of bills on the doormat.

   10. EGEmma Grede5:32

       Whether they are or they aren't, I actually f- I thank God every day for the type of upbringing that I had because I think A, it, it's made me who I am, and I guess there were parts of my childhood that essentially d- like, just didn't exist because I didn't have the ability to like, you know... And still to this day, it's so interesting actually, like the idea of like just playing-

   11. SBSteven Bartlett5:53

       Yeah.

   12. EGEmma Grede5:53

       ... isn't part of like who I am, but it gave me a lot of other things. It gave me a sense of, you know, I'm a, I'm an extremely maternal person and it gave me this kind of like empathetic root that is like, "I'm here to look after a lot of other people," and I know I do that very, very well. My energy had to be about, you know-... making sure my sisters were fed, and making sure that the house was clean, and making sure we were safe. Because as wonderful as East London was, it was also a place where you needed to have your wits about you. You needed to make sure that you'd brought your bike in, you needed to make sure that you were safe. And so, my primary instinct wasn't like, "Let me have a laugh right now and let me see what my friends are doing," my primary instinct was, "How do I ensure everybody's safe, and the door's locked, and we're gonna be good?"

   13. SBSteven Bartlett6:38

       And at, at that young age, before the age of, let's say, before the age of 16-

   14. EGEmma Grede6:41

       Mm-hmm.

   15. SBSteven Bartlett6:41

       ... if I had met you a- as a, a 15-year-old and said, "What do you want to be when you're older?" What would you have said to me?

   16. EGEmma Grede6:46

       Fashion designer-

   17. SBSteven Bartlett6:47

       Fashion designer?

   18. EGEmma Grede6:47

       ... straightaway. Yeah. Fashion designer.

   19. SBSteven Bartlett6:48

       And why would you have said that?

   20. EGEmma Grede6:49

       I was obsessed. Well, you've got to remember, you know, I was born in '82. And in the early '90s in England, it was like the glory days of fashion, you know. You had all of those supermodels, the Kates and the Naomis, and you know, amazing designers, McQueen and Galliano, and the British kind of Brit art scene, and the, you know, British music scene. It was just an amazing time in England. But to me, fashion was this means of escape. It was this fantasy industry. I didn't know anyone that worked in fashion. My... Which is so crazy. My grandma worked in a bra factory, which I laugh about all the time now, thinking about how many bras I make. But that was like, as close as anything I knew, like anyone that had worked in, like the apparel business. I certainly didn't understand the idea of entrepreneurialism, having your own business. To me, it was just a fantasy. Like, "I'm here in Plaistow. It's shit. How do I get away from it?" (laughs) And you know, this- it... To me, it was like, it's almost like the movies. Could have just as well been Hollywood. It was like, "That's over there, it's beautiful, it's glamorous. Wouldn't that be fantastic to be part of that somehow?"

   21. SBSteven Bartlett7:52

       And what was... I was thinking the other day about money.

   22. EGEmma Grede7:54

       Mm-hmm.

   23. SBSteven Bartlett7:54

       I was speaking to a friend, and we were discussing money as if it was a person, and playing through the attachment style-

   24. EGEmma Grede8:02

       Yeah.

   25. SBSteven Bartlett8:02

       ... we would have with that person, you know?

   26. EGEmma Grede8:04

       Mm-hmm.

   27. SBSteven Bartlett8:04

       Like the secure attachment, the anxious, the avoidant. At a young age, what was money as a person in the room in your life growing up, in the family?

   28. EGEmma Grede8:14

       Like, like the, the best (laughs) best friend, like the best thing ever. I mean, you know, I... We worshipped money. We worshipped money, we worshipped what money could bring, we worshipped the material stuff that you could get for having the money. It was all about the car, and the bag, and the thing, and the thing, that was it.

   29. SBSteven Bartlett8:35

       Was money around a lot?

   30. EGEmma Grede8:36

       (laughs) There was none of it around.
4. 11:06 – 12:20

   My Dream Was Always Fashion

   1. EGEmma Grede11:06

      focus on what I'm doing. I have an ability to get better at what I'm doing, right? Like, to constantly get better at whatever it is that I'm focusing on. And then I have an ability to drown out and kind of disregard the noise of everyone around me. And those three things are important, because focus is like, it's like a force multiplier in work, right? When you have a plan and you have a focus, and you can kind of go into what it is that you find important and double down on a very finite number of things, that's what propels you forward. And I was very fixated on working in fashion, but I also knew that I didn't have talent as a designer. And as much as I wanted to be a, a fashion designer, I couldn't draw. That drawing wasn't a very good one, actually. (laughs)

   2. SBSteven Bartlett11:55

      Just a habit.

   3. EGEmma Grede11:55

      If you look at it now, it's like... I couldn't sketch. I don't have much creative talent. What I am is a great enabler to talent. I can sit next to a talent and understand their vision, and figure out a way to turn that vision into a reality. But the creative part isn't what I do so well. And so, really understanding like what is your plan and how you can double down s- and get into the things that you are uniquely good at, and that you uniquely

5. 12:20 – 14:32

   Understanding Money Attachment Styles

   1. EGEmma Grede12:20

      have skills for is important. I think getting outside of your head is like really important, 'cause so many people have dreams and ambitions and ideas, but it just exists here. Like, what I do is a lot of action. Like, I made like hundreds of calls. Like, I always talk about this thing of at some point...... 'cause this was like before email. I would send a lot of letters and I thought, "No one's getting back to me. Maybe they're not getting the letters." So I started like hand delivering things around the West End. I would buzz on little doors of PR agencies and be like, "Hi, you know, my name's Emma and I sent you a letter, but I don't know if you got it." (laughs)

   2. SBSteven Bartlett12:54

      (laughs)

   3. EGEmma Grede12:55

      You know what I mean? It's like-

   4. SBSteven Bartlett12:56

      Yeah, I think I...

   5. EGEmma Grede12:56

      ... "Uh, yeah, whatever love." But sometimes they'd let you up and sometimes you've had a conversation with somebody and whatever, right? So I really believe in this kind of idea of action. And then you've just got to like just really, when I talk about this idea of disregarding what people think, there's just so much noise and you have to have like this single-minded focus on what you're doing. And I've, I've been really good at drowning out the noise, not just from what goes on inside me and what, you know, my own kind of fear, but also what's happening around you. And I think that those things are really, really key.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett13:27

      When you say drowning out the noise, there-

   7. EGEmma Grede13:28

      Mm-hmm.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett13:28

      ... there's a lot of things I want to go into there. But you talk about drowning out the noise-

   9. EGEmma Grede13:31

      Yeah.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett13:31

       ... I'll focus on that 'cause it was the last thing. How do you balance drowning out the noise with another principle that I know is important to you-

   11. EGEmma Grede13:37

       Mm-hmm.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett13:37

       ... which is feedback?

   13. EGEmma Grede13:39

       Yeah.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett13:39

       Especially from customers, 'cause customers will be saying, "We hate this." Customers always hate change.

   15. EGEmma Grede13:44

       Totally.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett13:44

       And they also don't know what they want. So how do you, how do you know what to drown out and what to consider to be feedback?

   17. EGEmma Grede13:49

       I think that that's re- it's a, it's a great question and, you know, it's interesting because I am actually a person who takes in a lot of information. If I'm trying to make like a really big decision that I don't feel fully qualified to make, which by the way happens to me all the time 'cause I'm still learning so much, I will call a lot of people that I think are in the know. But at the end of the day, I have to call the play, right? And often if you, if you call up seven or eight people, they're going to have different opinions, there- there'll be different patterns that emerge, there will be contrarian type of, you know, something that comes out of that. And so you have to then still like go, "Where is my gut? What feels good to me? What's right for my customer?" I think it's very different when you get customer feedback because what I've learned is that everything

6. 14:32 – 17:55

   Emma's Recipe to Achieve Anything

   1. EGEmma Grede14:32

      your customer says is true, 'cause it's true to them. And so what I do is like, of course, we have a balanced view, we try to, like, speak to as many customers, we're doing giant surveys and you take, you know, the sum of, of those parts. But when it comes down to customer feedback, I think it is, it's ingested in a very, very different way than like that kind of decision-making feedback. When I make a decision on behalf of my business, that has to come from my gut and from the intentions of where I want that business to go. When I'm doing things for customers, it's very different 'cause you just want to please customers.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett15:02

      Mm-hmm. You, you reference that calling around people that you respect and that you know.

   3. EGEmma Grede15:06

      All the time. I do it constantly.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett15:09

      I had someone say that, refer to this as your like personal board of directors.

   5. EGEmma Grede15:14

      Oh, I love that.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett15:15

      Which is these like five or seven people that you typically call-

   7. EGEmma Grede15:17

      Mm-hmm.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett15:17

      ... maybe it's 10. Um, who's on your personal board of directors? Like who are these people that are taking these phone calls?

   9. EGEmma Grede15:22

      Mm-hmm.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett15:22

       And why are you calling them? What is it about them that makes them a reliable partner in decisions?

   11. EGEmma Grede15:28

       Well, you know, first person, I speak to my husband a lot 'cause obviously we work together and Jens has a unique understanding of me, of my weaknesses, of what might be stopping me from making a decision. So I feel like I go to him a lot. And-

   12. SBSteven Bartlett15:44

       Because he will...

   13. EGEmma Grede15:45

       Oh, he's going to tell me the truth.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett15:46

       (laughs)

   15. EGEmma Grede15:46

       I mean, no, that's, he's, you know, he's told me that... Like some of the biggest unlocks in my life and my career have c- have come from Jens. And I will never ever forget, Stephen, like one of my first board meetings, one of my first companies, it was called ITB, and I would get so nervous ahead of a board meeting. And he'd be like, "Why are you so nervous?" And I'd be like, "I don't know," 'cause I'm, I'm a good chatter, I'm a good presenter, I can sell anything. But, you know, I would get to these board meetings and I would just fall apart. And he said to me, just, uh, wrong timing by the way, if you're going to give, you know, your wife a little bit of feedback. Literally just before we went in, he says, "You know what? I really, I, I know why you are suffering here, Emma. You have an employee mentality." And I, I mean, I was 26 or 27 years old. I couldn't think about anything else in the whole meeting 'cause I was like, "He's completely right. I have an employee mentality." Well, why? Because I'd only ever been an employee up until that point, but I was looking instead of, you know, being there as the CEO to guide the board into a decision, I was looking for everybody else to tell me what to do. And so I was seeking their approval instead of going in and saying, "Here's the direction. This is what we're doing. Everybody come with me. And these are the reasons, da, da, da, da." And so it was such an interesting insight and I think that you could only, or I could have only heard that from somebody so close to me.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett17:10

       So at that early stage in your career-

   17. EGEmma Grede17:11

       Mm-hmm.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett17:12

       ... what role are mentors playing? 'Cause we're talking about personal boards of directors here.

   19. EGEmma Grede17:15

       Yeah.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett17:16

       These are in some respects mentors, right?

   21. EGEmma Grede17:20

       Yeah.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett17:20

       Do they matter? And I say this, Emma, because I have kids coming up to me all the time saying-

   23. EGEmma Grede17:23

       Mm-hmm.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett17:23

       ... "Steve, I need a mentor." And they sometimes say, "Can you be my mentor?" And I'm thinking, "Fucking hell, I've done 17,000 hours of podcasting and you haven't learned a fucking thing." (laughs)

   25. EGEmma Grede17:31

       (laughs)

   26. SBSteven Bartlett17:31

       I was like, "That was the mentorship."

   27. EGEmma Grede17:32

       That was the mentorship.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett17:34

       How, what's your, what's your take on finding a mentor and how pivotal and important that is to become a successful person?

   29. EGEmma Grede17:40

       Listen, you know, from my own experience, I don't think I had any mentors. You know, I, I started work, like, well, let's talk about real work, right? So it's like I've had a job since I was 12 years old. I've worked a paper round and then I worked in the delis

7. 17:55 – 19:30

   Customer Feedback

   1. EGEmma Grede17:55

      and then I worked in clothes shops, and when I got my first real job in an office in a fashion show production company, I was 18 years old. So I've had a salaried job in a place that was working towards something that I felt was interesting and in the, the kind of direction of where I wanted to go since I was 18. At that point, you make whoever is around you, if you're smart, you make whoever is around you your mentor. I used to sit in front of my boss and everybody thought that was so unfortunate because my, she could see my screen and that was like the beginnings of online shopping. Net-a-Porter was our, uh, client, and we all had a discount so everyone would sit on Net-a-Porter all day-

   2. SBSteven Bartlett18:31

      Mm-hmm.

   3. EGEmma Grede18:31

      ... except me because my boss sat behind me and they were like, "What a nightmare."

   4. SBSteven Bartlett18:34

      (laughs)

   5. EGEmma Grede18:34

      And I was like, "No, not a nightmare at all. Whatever she says when she's on her sales calls, I would write down and I would use them later on on my sales calls." Now was she my mentor? No, she was my boss, but I used her as such because I would learn from her, I'd take, you know, I even like copied her outfits, you know, li- like I would do the whole thing. And so for me she was really formative. But I don't think that you should walk around looking for a mentor. I think you have to walk around asking questions, because anyone who's going to be a good mentor probably doesn't have time to mentor you, first. Secondly, like...... depending who you are and what your exposure is, you're not gonna have the right people around you-

   6. SBSteven Bartlett19:12

      Mm-hmm.

   7. EGEmma Grede19:12

      ... to get mentored. So you've just got to be super inquisitive, and I think it's really important to take where you are and figure out like who is around you and where can you get-

   8. SBSteven Bartlett19:20

      Mm-hmm.

   9. EGEmma Grede19:20

      ... that type of mentorship from. For me, in the beginning, I would just take whatever client I had, like if I come into contact with the CMO or the CEO, I'd just ask them a question. I'd

8. 19:30 – 21:38

   The Importance of Reliable Decision Partners & Mentality Shifts

   1. EGEmma Grede19:30

      be in the meeting, and I'd be like, "I have two other questions for you that have nothing to do with the work that we're doing," or the, you know, whatever brief I was there to deliver, and I'd ask a question.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett19:38

      And what, what part of you do you think if I removed ... and this could be a skill or a characteristic ... would definitely assure that you wouldn't be where you are today? Like what is this, the sacred part of you that is defining 'cause people see Emma today and they see these skills and this knowledge and all this stuff-

   3. EGEmma Grede19:55

      Mm-hmm.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett19:55

      ... and these relationships and these businesses and the success. But what is the like ... 'cause you said I'm dyslexic and-

   5. EGEmma Grede20:00

      Yeah.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett20:00

      ... and I, I think you left school, you dropped out of school at 15.

   7. EGEmma Grede20:03

      Yeah.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett20:03

      And then you went to college for a while and you lasted six months there.

   9. EGEmma Grede20:05

      Yeah, I dropped out there too.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett20:06

       So-

   11. EGEmma Grede20:06

       I'm a serial dropout.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett20:07

       So it's not something you learn necessarily in school.

   13. EGEmma Grede20:09

       Mm-mm.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett20:10

       So I'm wondering what the characteristic is that b- was the like, the wind in one's sails that brought you here, and what, if I remove that thing, you definitely wouldn't be here, and you could only give me one thing.

   15. EGEmma Grede20:21

       I mean, listen, we didn't call it that then, but it would come down to grit.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett20:27

       Grit.

   17. EGEmma Grede20:27

       Right? I think that that is what we would say now, you know, Angela Duckworth like coined that phrase I guess or, or that term and wrote that fantastic book about grit that all, everybody read and was like, "Oh my God, I just want my kids to have grit." Like my kids-

   18. SBSteven Bartlett20:44

       (laughs)

   19. EGEmma Grede20:44

       ... want for nothing. They're not gonna be gritty. Like it's just facts. Um-

   20. SBSteven Bartlett20:48

       They're gonna hear that.

   21. EGEmma Grede20:48

       You don't, you don't grow up in Bel Air gritty, you know? But I think that if you, if, if I think about what it, what, what it is for me and, and still is, I'm just gritty. I'm very clear about what I want and what I need, and I will find a way, whatever it is. You know, I am not any of the things that you would have on my resume, you know, uh, an apparel CEO, someone who goes out and raises hundreds of millions of dollars, somebody who starts an agency in multiple countries. I have zero qualifications to do any of that stuff. I will just make it happen because I'm in the moment, I see the opportunity, and I am prepared. And I'm prepared because it's like I have done all the work to get to the point where that thing that is in front of me, I will make it happen. I've done enough work

9. 21:38 – 24:06

   Do People Need Mentors to Succeed?

   1. EGEmma Grede21:38

      to say, "Okay, like I can take this to the, that next place."

   2. SBSteven Bartlett21:41

      And is that grit an ember that life blew on? Because I wonder if I'd gone back and I'd met Emma at 18 years old-

   3. EGEmma Grede21:47

      Mm-hmm.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett21:48

      ... whether she would've said it like, to me like that. So-

   5. EGEmma Grede21:51

      No. Emma at 18 years old would've been like... It's so interesting, you know, we don't have yearbooks in, in England, but i- if we did, I reckon I would've been like the most likely to succeed. I don't think-

   6. SBSteven Bartlett22:01

      Mm-hmm.

   7. EGEmma Grede22:01

      ... anyone at school was like, "Oh, she's a bit of a waste g-" No. It's like I had that mentality that I was away from the pack, that I was going to do something special bec- but also my mentality was like whatever it takes. You know, if I could, if I think about the most important words for career advancement, like the, the three most important words would be like, "I'll do that." That was me. I had my hand up my whole life. "I'll do that," like every single time. Any time anyone has asked me, whatever it took, wherever h- I've been in whichever workplace, I was like, "I'll do it. I'll do that." And, and that is what ... Like people started to look at me as someone that would just figure it out, right? It's not like I had any particular skill. I just put myself in a situation and in the space of, "Let me have a go," every single time.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett22:57

      To me, it makes perfect sense. It makes perfect sense because you grew up in a situation as an older sister where you were playing the role of a dad, where you did have to put your hand up and say, "I'll do that."

   9. EGEmma Grede23:07

      Mm-hmm.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett23:08

       You did have to make the lunches. And I sometimes think back to my own life and think about how a void of independence is maybe a scary thing to some parents, but it's also an incredibly useful thing for a kid to learn that I have to get myself from A to B-

   11. EGEmma Grede23:22

       Yes.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett23:23

       ... whether it's from home to school or-

   13. EGEmma Grede23:24

       Yes.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett23:24

       ... from home to dinner or from home to whatever it might be. And that v- I don't know. I, I looked at your life and go, "Okay, you had this massive void of independence," and in there grows skills, belief, and understanding about life that most others don't get. So it's no surprise that at such a young age you were, you thought you could do stuff, 'cause so many people, they have an idea. They know where they are now, and they kind of might have an idea of where they wanna be-

   15. EGEmma Grede23:48

       Mm-hmm.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett23:48

       ... but the gap between it is not something they've ever had to traverse. Like they've never had to walk it. Do you think it's possible for someone to make themself gritty? You know, you've got team members, employees. You can see the variance in gritty and un-gritty, resilience and-

   17. EGEmma Grede24:00

       I see a lot of un-grittiness. Yeah. Go on.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett24:03

       (laughs) Where, where do you see the un-grittiness and is it possible-

10. 24:06 – 26:09

    The One Skill That Made Me an Entrepreneur

    1. SBSteven Bartlett24:06

    2. EGEmma Grede24:06

       Well-

    3. SBSteven Bartlett24:06

       ... to make yourself grit- Have you ever seen someone go from, what should we call it? What's the opposite of grittiness?

    4. EGEmma Grede24:11

       Floppy. (laughs) Um-

    5. SBSteven Bartlett24:12

       (laughs)

    6. EGEmma Grede24:12

       I don't know. I don't know what the opposite of grittiness is actually. Um, I-

    7. SBSteven Bartlett24:16

       Soft, I guess?

    8. EGEmma Grede24:17

       Yes. Li- listen, I d- I, I do if you want it, like anything else, right? It's got, it's all about ... do you actually want to be that way and to behave that way? And we were talking about this actually funny enough on the way over because, you know, I, I just came from my own office two minutes away. It's Friday. All of the product teams are in. The rest of the office is pretty empty. And, you know, and I think post-COVID people have really taken the liberty of ... as we allow them, right? They, they can come in four days a week. And it's interesting because we talk so, so much about the flexibility of working from home and what Zoom life has kind of done for business, but we don't talk about any of the rigidity of it and what it takes away from work. And I can tell you and I can guarantee you that had I been a work from home person in my 20s, I would not be where I am now.There is no doubt in my mind. And I think about some, you know, I met my husband at work, I made some of my best, strongest relationships in my life, the, the most important things to me, and the foundation of my happiness and my, like, being a solid person, at work. That's where those relationships come from. And so I think it's really interesting now that we have this aversion of, like, wanting to be away from the office all of the time, and I'm like, "Oh, that's ..." Like, it's so interesting to me, 'cause I'm like such a, I'm like an in-person person. I wanna be with people, I wanna collaborate, I wanna do things quickly, and the culture of work right now makes that so hard. So I think, yes, you can treat, teach someone to have grit, but I can't teach you on a screen, babe.

    9. SBSteven Bartlett26:05

       (laughs)

    10. EGEmma Grede26:06

        I can't reach you. You won't see how I move, and in that same

11. 26:09 – 27:25

    The Three Most Important Words for Career Advancement

    1. EGEmma Grede26:09

       way that I had this woman that sat behind me and I would take notes of everything she said, that happened in real time, right? She would walk out of the room and I'd be on my next new business call saying her lines. Like ...

    2. SBSteven Bartlett26:20

       Mm-hmm.

    3. EGEmma Grede26:21

       It was just that quick and that immediate, and I would test it out and I'd make it my own. All of that is lost, and so I feel a little bit sad for the way that we're working right now, because I don't think that we're having that exchange of, you know, what happens when you're in a really dynamic environment and you're able to learn from people around you, because we're not as together as we once were.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett26:43

       When you're looking around your team and thinking, "That person's gonna be a star in the future, that person's gonna be a star in the future."

    5. EGEmma Grede26:48

       Mm-hmm. I'm ... W- which I'm always doing, by the way.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett26:49

       Which I'm always doing as well.

    7. EGEmma Grede26:50

       Always, always, always, always.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett26:52

       And this is why I know ... What are the factors or characteristics of those people that you look at in your office and go, "That's ... She's gonna be a star, he's gonna be a star"? What is it about them? What are they doing that others aren't doing?

    9. EGEmma Grede27:00

       Well, I ... You know, and people ask me this all the time, I think that the sure way to put yourself in a position for more responsibility for promotion is to be excellent at what you're doing, right? Like, I- I find it really difficult when people are like, "You know, I'd really like to do this thing over there, I'd really like that opportunity." And I'm like, "But you're only 70% good at what you're doing now." Like, I'm looking at the 120% people, the

12. 27:25 – 31:11

    Does Working in an Office Make Employees More Successful?

    1. EGEmma Grede27:25

       people that are smashing it in the role that they're at now before they're gonna go anywhere else, so that's the first thing to say. But I don't think it's any ... I- I, again, I h- hire much more for attitude over experience, right?

    2. SBSteven Bartlett27:38

       Mm-hmm.

    3. EGEmma Grede27:39

       I really want the people that come in with, like, a winning mentality, a figure-it-out mentality. And also what I love is these- these people that have, like, an understanding across the business. It's like, you are an amazing thoroughbred, you know, wholesale salesperson, but you really wanna learn e-comm, and you really wanna learn about stores, and you really have a good understanding of what's happening in planning and merchandising. Like, you know, in business leadership language they call them the T-shaped leaders, but it's like, that's what, that's what I care about, people that have a- an interest in the entirety of our business and they can see outside of the lane or the division that they work in. And so that becomes interesting to me, but to me, it's so much more in mentality, energy, enthusiasm, attitude, and also one of the things that I think is massively overlooked, but a key thing now, is flexibility. Because I hire a lot of people that are in their 40s and 50s, right? For super senior, executive leadership level roles, but if you come to me from a competitor and you believe that the only way to get from here to here is the way you've been doing it for the last 20 years, that's problematic to me. I need you to come both with the experience and a level of flexibility, because technology means that the customer and the, uh, and the consumer experience is changing all the time. So that ability to say, "I've got all of this knowledge, but I'm- I'm willing and ready to flex," is, like, really important.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett29:00

       Mm-hmm.

    5. EGEmma Grede29:00

       So I- I need, I need all those things. I need a lot, Steven. (laughs)

    6. SBSteven Bartlett29:05

       You don't say. But what are the red flags to ...

    7. EGEmma Grede29:06

       Very demanding. (laughs)

    8. SBSteven Bartlett29:08

       Tell m- tell me some sentences I could say in an interview with you that would be immediate red flags.

    9. EGEmma Grede29:13

       Oh. Oh, I've got a good one. "So can you talk to me about work/life balance in this organization?"

    10. SBSteven Bartlett29:18

        (laughs)

    11. EGEmma Grede29:20

        Sorry, babe. I'm leaving. I'm ... Get out. Here's the thing. Work/life balance is your problem.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett29:27

        (laughs)

    13. EGEmma Grede29:27

        Like, that's yours to figure out, because the way we run organizations now is that no one misses a dentist appointment or a doctor's appointment or a haircut or their kids' parent-teacher conference at our organizations. That's just not how we work anymore, right? Like, you come in, you have set hours, but you, you know, there's flexibility within the, the, your working life. It's not like, "Oh my goodness, such-and-such is not at their desk." That's just not how we work anymore. So when somebody talks to me about their work/life balance in an interview process, I'm like, "Something is wrong with you. You haven't been able to figure that out. That's not the way you win this interview."

    14. SBSteven Bartlett30:02

        I'm not trying to give this away.

    15. EGEmma Grede30:03

        Go on, go on.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett30:04

        I'm not trying to give this away, but ... Because it might fuck me over, saying this.

    17. EGEmma Grede30:08

        (laughs)

    18. SBSteven Bartlett30:08

        But, um, we do a screening survey ...

    19. EGEmma Grede30:11

        Mm-hmm.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett30:11

        And one of the questions tests for this. So I actually know the exact percentage of the general public that, when asked this question, will pick work/life balance as one of the most important things, and it's roughly 33%.

    21. EGEmma Grede30:21

        33?

    22. SBSteven Bartlett30:21

        So 33% of people on our screening survey will say that work/life balance is more important to them than another range of options, including doing perfect work, beating the competition, leading and inspiring others, having a happy team, et cetera. They'll pick work/life balance as being one of their most important things. So it's a lot of people that prioritize this, and it's not to say for me ... L- listen. It's not to say for me that it's a bad thing, but it's- it's not what I would pick.

    23. EGEmma Grede30:49

        No, babe, it's not what you would pick, 'cause you're ambitious as anything. (laughs)

    24. SBSteven Bartlett30:52

        So maybe you won't fit, you know?

    25. EGEmma Grede30:54

        But, you know, it's, it's very interesting, right? Because I wonder if you put on that list of options earning 10% more year on year, getting a meaningful bonus, right?

    26. SBSteven Bartlett31:03

        Yeah.

    27. EGEmma Grede31:03

        Like, because here's the thing, these things correlate, and that's what people don't understand. In order to run an organization where there is the ability for

13. 31:11 – 33:32

    Traits of Future Successful People

    1. EGEmma Grede31:11

       your people to have a good work/life balance, you have to be profitable, the company has to be, you know, in line with, if not beating its competition, we have to be able to run an efficient business a-... to give people what they need. The two things go hand in hand. And so I have this idea that with the people that I work with, like we're in a social, like we're in a contract together, right? It's like, you're gonna work really hard, and in return you should get an amazing place to work. You should get an incredible environment that is feeding you in ways that are not just about your, your job, right? And so when I look around at our office and our organization, we're doing, you know, I just, I left the office yesterday, there was like a fertility seminar going on where there were like hundreds of people in the kitchen of our office all learning about having their eggs frozen and like various different... I, I, I have four kids, I clearly didn't need to be in the seminar. I'm like, "I'm done."

    2. SBSteven Bartlett32:09

       Mm-hmm.

    3. EGEmma Grede32:09

       Um, but you know, that, that was happening. It's like we do things for our employees that are above and beyond what a workplace back in the day may have considered the norm. So I just feel like you've got to, with that, like something has to give. And there are certain things that are the employee's responsibility within that. And you figuring out what works for your life, how you're gonna pick up your kids, how you get home, how you get to work, what happens in... Like, these are all things that you need to figure out within the construct of your life. That isn't the employer's job. That isn't the employer's responsibility.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett32:44

       I'm gonna play devil's advocate here.

    5. EGEmma Grede32:45

       Go on.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett32:46

       So what people are, I guess when they hit that, that button and they say, "I want work/life balance," what they are maybe alluding to is, "Am I expected to work seven days a week? Because I need that information to be able to figure out, figure out if I'm gonna be able to pick up my kids and be able to do my-"

    7. EGEmma Grede33:02

       Totally.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett33:02

       "... DJing or whatever I do on the weekend."

    9. EGEmma Grede33:04

       Totally. Yeah.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett33:04

        So, what is the expectation in your business?

    11. EGEmma Grede33:08

        I don't think the expectation is that anyone is going to have to work seven days a week in order to get, you know, to have an average job. Like, they're not going to have to do that. If you have ambition, if you want to do the most, if you wanna grow, if you wanna be one of those people that's like, you know, at the top of the organization, the chances are

14. 33:32 – 39:32

    Interview Red Flags & Work-Life Balance

    1. EGEmma Grede33:32

       you might have to work a little bit more. That's the truth. Now what are we talking about here? We're gonna lie to everyone? Do you work five days a week, Steven?

    2. SBSteven Bartlett33:40

       No.

    3. EGEmma Grede33:40

       No, babe. You're working on a Saturday and a Sunday. And if I text you wherever you are in the world, you come back to me within about an hour.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett33:47

       Yeah, because-

    5. EGEmma Grede33:47

       I'm assuming that that's not just what you do for me, that that's just how you roll. And that's how I roll. And that's how most successful people roll. And you know, it's like there is something to speed and agility. And I don't... Listen, I think I have a tremendous work/life balance. I am in Malibu most weekends, I'm on the beach, but I think that we have to have a level of honesty about what it takes to be really successful. And I think that everybody is tired of hustle culture. People are tired-

    6. SBSteven Bartlett34:17

       Yeah.

    7. EGEmma Grede34:17

       ... of burnout. And figuring out how you can do what you need to do and be really successful at the same time is like what I consider personal responsibility. But at the same time, if we tell everybody that to be really successful you can do that in a way that, um, is, you know, without being, uh, 150%, without waking up most days and doing some type of work, without thinking about work a lot, it's just not, it's not honest and it's not, um, it wouldn't connect with what I see and what my experience are of most people that are truly successful.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett34:53

       Why do some people hate what you just said?

    9. EGEmma Grede34:55

       Uh, I think because it hits them in a place of like, "I just don't wanna do that. I want, I want all the benefits, but I don't wanna do the bit in the middle." And I get that. It's not for everyone. Then don't do it.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett35:05

        But is it possible to have the success to be number one, to be on the magazines, to be Emma, and is there like not a way where I can have my evenings and weekends, but still get like the-

    11. EGEmma Grede35:18

        I have some evenings and weekends.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett35:19

        But like, I want all of my evenings and weekends.

    13. EGEmma Grede35:22

        No, you're not... No, no. I, if y- if it's possible, tell me who she is. And I'll tell you, I'll show you a liar.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett35:28

        (laughs)

    15. EGEmma Grede35:30

        You know?

    16. SBSteven Bartlett35:31

        Mm-hmm.

    17. EGEmma Grede35:31

        I, I, I don't think so and, and, and honestly, Steven, like what, what are we talking about? Because we, I think that most people, most people want a ... you know, they, they don't want everything, right? It's like most people don't, are not sitting here being like, "I need to be in all the magazines. I want this, I want that." It's like most people want to have, uh, security, have a well-paying job. They wanna, you know, be able to afford their rent or their mortgage and have a nice car and live well and go on a few holidays, and, and that's like a good life. Should you be able to do that? Absolutely. Should you be able to do that without working evenings and weekends and putting all of the hours in? Yeah, I really think that you should. But if you are leading an extraordinary life, to think that extraordinary effort wouldn't be coupled to that somehow is crazy.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett36:30

        It's interesting post-pandemic how it feels like leaders got gaslit a little bit. Founders got gaslit by platforms, you know, like if you go on LinkedIn-

    19. EGEmma Grede36:40

        Mm-hmm.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett36:41

        ... you've got all these people telling you how to run a business and, uh, th- what you're doing wrong in work/life balance-

    21. EGEmma Grede36:46

        Mm-hmm.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett36:46

        ... and you've gotta be more like this and you've gotta be this kinda leader and you have to be this empathy and do this and that and the other. And if you're a young founder growing up in this world where there's, everyone is telling founders what to do, um, it can feel incredibly confusing. And I think in particular post-pandemic, where like how we work was like shuffled up and it's now like pick and mix.

    23. EGEmma Grede37:04

        Totally. Yeah.

    24. SBSteven Bartlett37:04

        It's like th- th- before the pandemic, it was like, we all got it.

    25. EGEmma Grede37:07

        Mm-hmm.

    26. SBSteven Bartlett37:08

        We come to the office five days a week, we work. You know? Um, it's a difficult time to be a founder, because you've almost gotta step out, if you know what I mean.

    27. EGEmma Grede37:17

        Yeah, you do. Yeah, you have to. And listen, I don't think that that is as hard as people are making it. You have to understand that y-You know, you can't be a leader and a people pleaser at the same time. And if you're walking around trying to make everybody happy, guess what you won't do? You won't have a great business. You have to have a focus on what it is that you're trying to do, and you have to be relentless in the pursuit of doing those things. And you need the people that are going to, you know ... I am, I'm so much about the people that help you, you know. I, I hate that idea of, like, being, um, you know, like a s- you know, I get called, like, a self-made whatever, and I'm like, "I'm really not self-made." (laughs) If you understood how many people there were around me that just like getting me here today, (laughs) do you know what I mean?

    28. SBSteven Bartlett38:06

        (laughs)

    29. EGEmma Grede38:06

        There's like a, a village sitting outside. But nothing happens on your own, and it takes so many people and so ma- so much skill and so much that I don't have. And so when you start a company, this idea that you should make all of the ... if you, if you're thinking about making all of these concessions before you're thinking about what the goal is, what the, the, the, the, you know ... I, I call it, a- and everybody, it's like enterprise mentality. It's like you have to put the business first, the needs of the business. And sometimes that is about thinking about your people and being a certain type of leader. Sometimes it's not. So you've gotta balance those things, right? We're trying, it ... The point of a business is to make profit. It's to create, like, a company to serve, you know, your customers, all of those things. It really isn't about what I think so many people are trying to make it about. Now, your leadership style is, you know, it's, it's gonna be such a huge part of what makes that business successful, but it isn't, it isn't everything. And so I think that we've just gotta try and separate these things-

    30. SBSteven Bartlett39:10

        Mm-hmm.
15. 39:32 – 40:58

    Can You Be Successful and Have Work-Life Balance?

    1. SBSteven Bartlett39:32

       there's this really interesting incentive that the employee has where they can, they can pop back. And so if, if you fire me from your company, Emma, and, you know, I didn't feel so good when I was there, I now have you by the balls a little bit, if you know what I'm saying.

    2. EGEmma Grede39:48

       Yeah, totally.

    3. SBSteven Bartlett39:48

       Because I can p- post on my TikTok and say, "You know, Emma is not who you think she is."

    4. EGEmma Grede39:53

       Yeah, that's just part of being in business though, right?

    5. SBSteven Bartlett39:55

       Yeah, but then because you're living under that threat from some kind of a- activist employee, how do you stop that from changing the way that you live with that enterprise mentality and do what's right for the business?

    6. EGEmma Grede40:08

       I don't think you do.

    7. SBSteven Bartlett40:09

       I've had so many founders say this to me in my portfolio. They've said like, "Oh, man, I'm, like, scared of being canceled."

    8. EGEmma Grede40:14

       Well, don't do anything to be canceled. I mean, look, I think it's a fine line, right? That you're, if you're a leader, you're never going to please everybody, and I think that this is where leadership style and who you are as a person really comes out. I don't think anybody ... I'm somebody that leads with no ambiguity. Nobody's like, "Hmm, I wonder what Emma's thinking." It's like I'm very clear in what I'm thinking. I'm very clear in what the goals are, and the reason that we've been able to do what we've been able to do is because of those things. I have a very straightforward management style, and I, I bring everybody along with me. Now, listen, there's always going to be someone or, you know, a fraction of people that will feel

16. 40:58 – 43:51

    You Can't Be a Leader and a People Pleaser

    1. EGEmma Grede40:58

       disgruntled. I've gone through various things in different companies where you've had to, you know, downsize or let people go and things that are really unfortunate, and that's just part of the course of business. Now, are you doing those things in a way that is congruent with who you are as a, as a leader and, you know, really thinking about what, what that actually ... Like, you know, it's, it's not ... Again, it's like I never have, like, an indivi- individualistic idea about that. It's like if, if I have to look at a company and downsize, I'm not thinking about the 50 people that I have to let go. I'm thinking about the 400 jobs that need to be saved. And sadly, sometimes there is a little collateral damage. That's just part of being in business. Um, I certainly am not sitting here sweating what somebody might do on TikTok, because I know who I am, and I feel good about the decisions that I make because of the, of the where they come from. They come from me, they come from my heart, and I know that I'm a good person. So I would never sit here and be like, "Oh no, someone's gonna, like, shame me."

    2. SBSteven Bartlett42:01

       What was the most important lesson you had to learn about leadership as a up-and-coming talented Black woman in business?

    3. EGEmma Grede42:10

       I don't think it's any different than ... Honest- if I, if I'm really honest, I don't think it's any different from any other woman, but I do think it's different for women-

    4. SBSteven Bartlett42:18

       Okay.

    5. EGEmma Grede42:18

       ... more generally. I think that probably the most important lesson was how distinctive and important my point of view is and why that gives me an edge, right? But I also understand that, you know, this kind of, like, empathy coin has two sides to it, right? What makes women phenomenally good leaders and makes them fantastic at, you know, mentoring staff and looking after the needs of the team is sure (laughs) has the underbelly when it comes from perhaps, you know, downsizing their team or, you know, firing the wrong person or if people are not getting pay rises, like, how they might feel about that. So I definitely had to learn that there's two sides to what makes me great and to keep both of those sides in check.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett43:13

       So it's balancing the empathy part of you-

    7. EGEmma Grede43:15

       Mm-hmm. Yeah.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett43:16

       ... with the needing to make difficult decisions.

    9. EGEmma Grede43:19

       Yeah.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett43:20

        'Cause it doesn't feel like care to fire someone. It's like, because-

    11. EGEmma Grede43:24

        No, it goes against the grain of, uh, of...... caring for, it- it goes against the grain of being like a maternal individual who is looking after people, right? Because that's the opposite of that. You're leaving someone to their own devices. And so that, that's been difficult for me, for sure.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett43:42

        Do you remember the first time you had to contend with that dichotomy-

    13. EGEmma Grede43:46

        Oh.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett43:46

        ... and how it felt and ...

    15. EGEmma Grede43:48

        Yeah. Yeah. I do. I, I think it would have been like way

17. 43:51 – 46:29

    Being Cancelled as a Leader and Public Figure

    1. EGEmma Grede43:51

       back when in London, in ITB, the first time I had to do like a meaningful downsizing of the agency, and I had to fire like, you know, it was a small agency. I had like 60 people and I fired 15 people in one day. So then, we're in a tiny office, Gressy Street in, you know, just off of Tottenham Court Road (laughs) and everyone sits together. There was no like giant boardroom that you could go into and then go, "Go out the back door." It was like, I went back upstairs and told everyone, and you know, it was like awful. It was absolutely awful. I laugh about it out of just like horror of how it felt at the time, because it really, to me, it felt like the end of the world, the end of my life, and I felt so responsible. Because oftentimes, you know, like so much of being in a competitive dynamic environment, you know, you're pulling people out of other agencies and other jobs and you're bringing them in and, you know, you're like, "That's the best person for this." And then all of a sudden you're like, "I'm so sorry, but like, it's over." And, and that for me was soul destroying, the first time I had to do it.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett44:53

       But in hindsight, how do you look at that decision now with your wisdom?

    3. EGEmma Grede44:58

       Well, look, again, I go back and say I created a better company bef- because of it. I created more discipline in the business because I was able to see the mistakes that I'd done that weren't just about overstaffing, but it was just about running a, a less healthy engine. I do think it made me a better leader in the sense of I had held so much of the anxiety of what was happening in that company, it not going well, to myself. I hadn't really shared with the full senior management team like quite how bad things were, because I felt, "I'm the CEO. That's all my problem. They should be able to just come in and out." And with that there was a lack of accountability from everybody else. And so I think I've really understood now that, you know, it's like I'm, I'm here at the top of the organization and, you know, it's like, almost like I'm the, I'm the manager, right? I sit on the sidelines and I have a bunch of people, I shouldn't be like running on the pitch to score the goals.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett45:52

       (laughs)

    5. EGEmma Grede45:53

       Like, I need to stay on those sidelines and I need to direct everybody to do the best job possible. And now I think so much more about bringing everybody on the journey and when you're having difficult times, which we do all the time in all of our businesses, despite whatever it might look like to people, you know, you need to bring people on the journey and get them involved in what those solves are. Because if you get to that place where you have to downsize or you have to change the way that you're doing business and you have to make meaningful changes, they're there with you. They've been part of the solution, they've been part of those solutions not working out, and they're gonna be part of making them right for the rest of the business.

18. 46:29 – 50:56

    Racism and Sexism in the Business Industry

    1. EGEmma Grede46:29

    2. SBSteven Bartlett46:29

       I think there's a lot of business owners that can relate to holding onto all of that pressure-

    3. EGEmma Grede46:34

       Mm-hmm.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett46:34

       ... themselves. Cash flow issues, the uncertainty around the business, and it's, you know, they internalize it, they take it home with them, it's with them seven days a week. Um, how did it feel for you when you were going through those challenges with your, your first company? Um, and I s- I ask that because I want the person going through that, I was going through it-

    5. EGEmma Grede46:55

       Mm-hmm.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett46:56

       ... to feel seen, but also to have a bit of a blueprint, a roadmap of what to do about that.

    7. EGEmma Grede47:00

       Well, the, the truth is, it feels like the end of the world, right? Like that-

    8. SBSteven Bartlett47:04

       Yeah.

    9. EGEmma Grede47:04

       That's how it feels. When you start something from the ground up and it's yours, there's such a sense of responsibility. And, you know, I think that what happens in business, it's always like a, a confluence of factors, right? Like, you try to work out like what has made this thing happen. And it's like, you know, sometimes like death by a thousand cuts. There's no like one thing that you can point to and say, "That was it. That's what made this like back, down trending moment happen." It's like, it's a bit of this, and a bit of that, and a bit of this, and a bit of that. But often what it comes from is, you know, you get so into what you're doing that it's very, very hard to rise back up. And I think what I've taught myself, like this muscle that I've taught myself, is every kind of quarter, a- at least every six months, I try to float up and see like, "What is happening?" Not what I'm telling myself, not what are we doing, like, what's happening? What's happening with the competition? What's happening in the market? And back then, I just didn't have the ability to do that. I was so heads down, so in the work, so, you know, like just deep in, like, my clients and doing the best job that I could, that I had no ability to zoom out. And I do ... Again, I'm not just blaming myself, but it, it really was about that inability to see clearly. And so I think for anybody that's kind of been through a moment like that, it's either surrounding yourself with people that are able to help you have a little bit more perspective or trying to make that a habit that you do that in your business. You know, Bill Gates talks about having reading week or le- you know, an away week. He takes himself off and he does it twice a year and he goes and he just like sits somewhere beautiful. It looked like it was like by the water or something. He goes into a little cabin and he just reads, but he thinks about like what is happening in his business, what is happening in the world. And I certainly would never want the comparison to Bill Gates, but I think just having the ability to zoom out a little bit is something that all founders should really, really think about, and it's given me unbelievable perspective that I've made that a practice now.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett49:05

        That's s- s- so, so true. I was, I was talking the other day, I think it was actually when, when I did that solo episode on the, on The Diary of a CEO about this idea of like clouds and trenches.

    11. EGEmma Grede49:13

        I love the solo episodes, babes.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett49:14

        Oh, did you listen to it? Oh, thank you.

    13. EGEmma Grede49:15

        Yeah. I love them. I think they're so good.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett49:17

        Thank you. One of the ideas that emerged from that process was, as I was writing the solo episode, I thought about the day that I went fishing. Like, I don't fish obviously, you know, like, you know, but I went fishing for, because whatever, it, I just found myself there and I'm on this boat in the middle of the lake and the art of fishing is you sit there and you fucking nothing.

    15. EGEmma Grede49:34

        You do nothing. (laughs)

    16. SBSteven Bartlett49:35

        And you're on a lake and it's like pissing it down, so I'm, I'm sat there with my Mac and it's just like lathering on me. And this boat, this is not glamorous, this is a two meter wooden boat.

    17. EGEmma Grede49:42

        Oh babe, we all had an idea of like a yacht. (laughs)

    18. SBSteven Bartlett49:44

        No, no, no, no, no. It was like at a castle somewhere. And it was the most important like seven hours of my life at that exact moment, 'cause I'd been in the trenches for so many weeks in a row that sitting out on that boat for seven hours just waiting for this nibble that never came, 'cause I'm shit at fishing it turns out-... was so powerful, I thought j- j- like, this is, this is the distinction-

    19. EGEmma Grede50:05

        Mm-hmm.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett50:05

        ... between being able to stand back from the photo so you can see the picture, and founders, like especially when you've got cash flow issues and clients giving you shit and, and team member issues-

    21. EGEmma Grede50:14

        (coughs)

    22. SBSteven Bartlett50:14

        ... you're like this.

    23. EGEmma Grede50:15

        Yeah.

    24. SBSteven Bartlett50:16

        And I think that the problem is, as founders, we can feel guilt.

    25. EGEmma Grede50:19

        Yes.

    26. SBSteven Bartlett50:19

        And we kind of talked about this earlier.

    27. EGEmma Grede50:20

        Tremendous guilt.

    28. SBSteven Bartlett50:21

        Of like not being in there and not being in the trenches, but w- 'cause we don't realize we're serving our company by creating a little bit of space.

    29. EGEmma Grede50:29

        Yeah.

    30. SBSteven Bartlett50:29

        So is it a practice for you?
19. 50:56 – 53:33

    Dealing With Business Struggles and Crises

    1. EGEmma Grede50:56

       (laughs) what is the customer seeing? I go, like, in store. I really try to understand that what is everybody else, like what are customers truly experiencing from this brand? And then it's really about looking objectively at what we're putting out there, and I really do that, and I've b- I've got a w- uh, I think I have a really, really good sense of not, um ... I don't know how to say it without swearing. Like-

    2. SBSteven Bartlett51:21

       You can swear.

    3. EGEmma Grede51:22

       ... I just don't believe my own bullshit. I, I've still got the ability, and it's so interesting 'cause I think that when you join a new company, you know, I always say to people that come, you know, you got fresh eyes for, I don't know, a couple of weeks, maybe a couple of months at best, until you start telling yourself the same stories that we tell ourselves internally, and I am very good at having those fresh eyes, and so when I have new people in the business, I will go to those people and be like, "What are you seeing? Where were you before? What have you, like ... versus what we're telling you, like what are you seeing in this company?" And so I make a point to, like, get around to any new starters, and that's just like part of the process, competition, new starters, having to zoom out. What am I actually, like, serving and delivering to customers? And I kind of take all of that and come up with, like, just a one-pager. Like for me, it's always very simplistic, you know? It's like three things. I'm like, "This, this, this. Go and work on those things." And it will often be in line with the priorities that I have, like the broader priorities of the business, but sometimes it's just like a random thing that I'm like, (gasps) "Didn't see that happening. I didn't see how shit we'd become at that."

    4. SBSteven Bartlett52:27

       (laughs)

    5. EGEmma Grede52:28

       You know? And so it's like I try to, I try to have that level of objectiveness all the time.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett52:33

       Are you paranoid?

    7. EGEmma Grede52:35

       Definitely. 100%. Yes. Well, also I'm par- rightly paranoid. Like I've worked with some of the most, like, copied, duped brands in the whole world. (laughs) Do you know what I mean? It's like I'm not actually paranoid, I'm just like, everybody's copying me. (laughs)

    8. SBSteven Bartlett52:47

       Mm-hmm. And how do you think about people copying you? Because anyone that's successful, all of my friends that have done anything well, they're just, everyone just copies

    9. EGEmma Grede52:55

       What's ho- ... what they've made. I'm totally unbothered. We've moved already, babe. I'm like, by the time they've copied me, I'm, you know, I'm a year and a half in the future. I'm like, "Go for it. Done."

    10. SBSteven Bartlett53:03

        Hmm.

    11. EGEmma Grede53:03

        "It's over."

    12. SBSteven Bartlett53:04

        You got your first, um, I guess your first foray into the world of fashion was that internship you had at 19 years old. You became a show producer after that-

    13. EGEmma Grede53:11

        Mm-hmm.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett53:11

        ... at INCO Productions. You worked at a marketing agency between sort of tw- t- t- 23, 25 years old, um, called Saturday Group-

    15. EGEmma Grede53:17

        Mm-hmm.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett53:17

        ... which is now known as Wednesday Agency, co-founded by your now husband, Jens?

    17. EGEmma Grede53:23

        Yes, indeed.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett53:25

        Which is where you met him?

    19. EGEmma Grede53:26

        Yes. Now I'm, you know, I'm in business with Jens. So we started our relationship as I was an employee, and then

20. 53:33 – 55:58

    Top 3 Valuable Practices for Founders

    1. EGEmma Grede53:33

       he was my investor, so he and his business partner invested alongside somebody else that I brought in in my first company. Then I married him. (laughs)

    2. SBSteven Bartlett53:41

       Mm-hmm.

    3. EGEmma Grede53:42

       Um, then we had four kids together, and it has been an unbelievable relationship and one of the, kind of, most important things in my life and still remains one of the most important things in my life. But it hasn't always been easy because he is obviously, you know, doing his thing, and he's very ambitious, and he has his own things going on. Um, and when you bring kids into the equation, everything changes again, right? That, it, it shifts a little bit. I think what is important is to have somebody who just sees all of your talent and sometimes sees it before you do yourself, and I think that Jens has been, like, unbelievably encouraging of me at every turn. Every time I've had any doubt, every time I've been like, "God, that feels like a little bit outside of my comfort zone," and he's been like, "But you did this. But you did that." You know, and I'm like, "Oh yeah, I did, didn't I?" And he's like, "Go for it."

    4. SBSteven Bartlett54:40

       You know, everybody has that. And you'll know people, right-

    5. EGEmma Grede54:42

       Mm-hmm.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett54:42

       ... who are really ambitious themselves, and maybe their partner is envious-

    7. EGEmma Grede54:48

       Mm-hmm.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett54:48

       ... resentful, maybe low key, subtly plays them, like plays them down or diminishes their ability to them. What would you say to someone who right now is listening to this and has a partner who they feel doesn't want them to climb to the top of the mountain and isn't willing to help carry them up there and actually sees their work as a competition? What would you say to that person? 'Cause I know we probably got a couple million listening.

    9. EGEmma Grede55:18

       (sighs) I say this all the time. Everything starts with yourself, and you have to be willing to put what it is that you care about, what it is that you want more than anything first. You have to be able to do that first. And if you have somebody who isn't necessarily, like, a big cheerleader, which not everybody can be for everyone else, that's one thing, but if you've got someone that sucks your energy and your ability to believe in yourself, that's a problem. All right? So I don't think that everybody needs

21. 55:58 – 57:15

    Don't Get Stuck, Keep Fresh Eyes

    1. EGEmma Grede55:58

       the, like, cheerleader husband. But you need somebody that at least supports your belief in yourself so that you can go off and do what you need to do. But I don't know that there's any big secret. The secret is just being interested in each other. The secret is just...... growing together, and I think that we are so fortunate that we've been able to work with one another, but it comes from, like, this place of, like, interest and respect. And I'm interested in the person that he was. Is it 16 or 17 years ago? I wish I knew. But I'm interested in the person that he's becoming, and I think he's interested in the person I'm becoming.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett56:36

       Quick one. I wanna talk about something we all need to take seriously, which is cybersecurity. Whether you're a first-time founder facing your very first audit or a seasoned professional who's been through it all, staying compliant is getting more critical than ever, and more complicated, I have to say. And that is where Vanta comes in, who is a sponsor of this podcast. Vanta takes the pain out of security compliance, automating the tedious but essential process of proving your business is secure across over 35 frameworks, like SOC 2, ISO 27001. Centralize your workflows, answer security questions up to five times faster, and protect your business without losing focus on growth. And this is really a critical

22. 57:15 – 1:00:42

    Brands Copying Other Brands

    1. SBSteven Bartlett57:15

       part of this. A new IDC white paper found that companies using Vanta save over $535,000 a year, and it pays for itself in just three months. For a limited time, my community gets $1,000 off Vanta at vanta.com/stephen. That's V-A-N-T-A dot com slash Stephen for $1,000 off. So 25 years old, you start ITB-

    2. EGEmma Grede57:41

       Yeah.

    3. SBSteven Bartlett57:41

       ... worldwide, and you run that business-

    4. EGEmma Grede57:43

       Yeah, 25, or was that 24 maybe? Yeah, something like that.

    5. SBSteven Bartlett57:45

       For a decade roughly?

    6. EGEmma Grede57:46

       Yeah, a decade.

    7. SBSteven Bartlett57:48

       A decade of your life up until 35-ish?

    8. EGEmma Grede57:52

       (clears throat)

    9. SBSteven Bartlett57:52

       And you meet Kris-

    10. EGEmma Grede57:53

        Yes.

    11. SBSteven Bartlett57:54

        ... Jenner-

    12. EGEmma Grede57:54

        Yeah.

    13. SBSteven Bartlett57:54

        ... in this process of these 10 years. When did you meet Kris Jenner?

    14. EGEmma Grede57:59

        I met her for the first time, like, on a job that I'd done for one of the girls. I was actually ... And I'm sure they must be pretty furious now actually. I was actually introduced through an agent at WMA. They just gave me her number directly-

    15. SBSteven Bartlett58:13

        (laughs)

    16. EGEmma Grede58:13

        ... so I just called her. (laughs)

    17. SBSteven Bartlett58:14

        Why would they be furious now? 'Cause they can't take the cut? (laughs)

    18. EGEmma Grede58:15

        Well, you know, with the ... Probably. (laughs)

    19. SBSteven Bartlett58:19

        (laughs)

    20. EGEmma Grede58:19

        You know, maybe they should have, uh, ushered that introduction slightly more, but hey-ho. (laughs)

    21. SBSteven Bartlett58:23

        That's funny.

    22. EGEmma Grede58:24

        Yeah, I just called her. At that time, you know ... A- at that time, Kris wasn't the Kris of now. She was still extremely famous. I remember when we went for lunch there, um, you know, there was, like, a little crowd forming outside, but it was very different from how it is today.

    23. SBSteven Bartlett58:38

        And what was she like when you met her?

    24. EGEmma Grede58:39

        Amazing, you know, but also, like, not i- in that way that when you, you go and meet someone. For me, it was just like meeting any other manager, agent, publicist. And of course, it was Kris, and she was, you know, on the show, and so I had an understanding of who she was, but also I was trying to get something done. You know, I would have been doing some type of endorsement and trying to, you know, get some information about whatever it was that, you know, I was working on at the time. So it was just like a means to an end. Wherever I would go at that point in my life, you know, I was meeting with managers, agents, publicists all the time, um, and that was part of my job and part of what I did on behalf of brands.

    25. SBSteven Bartlett59:18

        What was that journey from meeting Kris that first time to getting into business with Kris and pitching her o- to be a business partner? And then what happens to ITB, the agency you were running in the background?

    26. EGEmma Grede59:28

        Mm-hmm. So it was a really interesting time for me actually, because there was this big shift, and what I'd done in the agency was built this, you know, entertainment marketing agency. And we really kind of sat at the intersection of where, like, brands and entertainment get together, so film product placement, endorsement deals, influencer packages, like ... And that was, like, the very early days of influencers. Most of th- Like, we were calling them bloggers at that time.

    27. SBSteven Bartlett59:53

        Yeah.

    28. EGEmma Grede59:53

        Right? So the agency was growing, and I'd opened an office in New York that was really doing, like, the majority of the business, and it was fantastic. So the business become very kind of US-facing from a client-based point of view. And then this idea of, like, talent-based equity deals kind of, like, raised its head, and I read something about Ashton Kutcher taking, I don't know, equity in some Silicone Valley startup, and I started to get calls. And, you know, people would always phone me when they wanted to put an A-list talent in a fragrance ad, for example, but people started calling me and saying, "Hey, we've got this startup. We'd be willing to give X, Y, and Z, 10% of this thing for, you know, for an endorsement." And I was like, "Well, that's interesting. How do I commission that?" Right?

    29. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:38

        Mm-hmm.

    30. EGEmma Grede1:00:38

        Because usually I would be pa- getting paid a percentage of

23. 1:00:42 – 1:05:45

    Advice for People With Unsupportive Partners

    1. EGEmma Grede1:00:42

       whatever cash was taking ... was crossing hands. So for me, it was li- this new interesting part of the business that I had to figure out how to monetize. So fast-forward, I did a couple of deals, and instead of, you know, taking a piece of equity, like ... You know, because at the end of the day, my agency wasn't ... It wasn't ... In that way, shape, or form, it wasn't figured out that we could, like, bring equity into the business. Like, where does that go? That wouldn't go to me. That would go to the shareholder base. It would then mean nothing to anybody. So I was like, "Do you know what? A flat fee." And so I did a bunch of deals with a bunch of talents, and I'd say, "You're gonna pay me a couple of hundred thousand dollars. I'm gonna work out for X to take 10% of your company." And I did three that were very, very successful. Then what happened is I kind of sat back, and I was like, "Wow, it's so interesting." And I remember this company reporting some (laughs) just reporting some numbers, and I was like, "I cannot believe that they've gone from there to there." And in my head, I made a direct correlation between the talent that had been brought into c- that company, it was Pharrell Williams at the time, and I was like, "Wow, because Pharrell did this thing, the value of the company jumped like this. I got my little couple of hundred grand and wasn't incentivized and, you know, by any of the value that was created," and therefore, you know, I was like, "God, I'm really losing here. Maybe I should do one of these for myself."Maybe I should create a company and bring a talent into that company and give them a piece of equity in order to accelerate the business. That was the start of Good American. That was the initial thought because I wasn't getting paid what I needed to from my clients, so I was like, "Well, who's going to g- who's gonna pay me correctly? No one, so I'll create it myself." At that time, Jens and Erik had started Frame, which is an incredibly successful denim company. And so I had kinda thought in my head that between, you know, I had clients like G Star and Calvin Klein, and I'd worked with Topshop for a long time, very denim heavy. Jens had, um, Frame, and so I was like, "I know something about denim. Like, that's a category I can do." No, what I knew was-

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:02:45

       Mm-hmm.

    3. EGEmma Grede1:02:45

       (laughs) den- denim marketing. I had no idea about how to make a product. And then fast-forward, I sit down, I sit at a dinner, and next to some guy who had invested heavily in a big plus-size, uh, retailer in America. And he said to me, "Emma, this space is exploding," and he's telling me all about it, and I looked on my phone, I looked at the retailer, and I was like, "That's gross. Nobody wants to dress in those clothes. That product is horrible." And then everything just came together. I was like, "Oh my goodness, I'm gonna create a denim company. I'm gonna make all of the sizes all the time, and I'm gonna make everyone look hot." Basta. End of. That was it. I was like, "Ding, ding, ding," and it just came together. And I was like, "Oh, and you know what I know how to do? I know how to book talent and bring them into the brand and converge all of those things, and it's gonna be explosive." And so the idea was kind of set in my head. And at that point, I'd had the conversation with Chris who had said, you know, "We're looking for these type of partnerships now," and so I just went back to her, and I was like, "I have an idea, and I'd really love it if I could pitch your daughter." The rest is history.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:56

       You pitched her?

    5. EGEmma Grede1:03:57

       I pitched her.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:58

       You pitched Khloe?

    7. EGEmma Grede1:03:58

       Mm-hmm.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:59

       What did Khloe say?

    9. EGEmma Grede1:04:01

       I don't remember the exact words, and you know I never like to... It's so interesting, we have a great working relationship, the family and I, because I don't speak on their behalf, you know?

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:14

        Mm-hmm.

    11. EGEmma Grede1:04:14

        And I'm very careful not to speak on their behalf, and it feels really unfair because what, they are so unbelievably famous that anything that you say becomes news. So I prefer never to talk about what she said. What I remember as the end result is that she said yes and, you know, we're in business together eight years later.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:34

        What was the process of making Good American a good company in terms of you have that initial hypothesis-

    13. EGEmma Grede1:04:40

        Mm-hmm.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:40

        ... when you're sat at that dinner. You think, "Okay, this is what it's gonna be." It tends to be the case that almost everyone's initial hypothesis is, like, a little bit wrong.

    15. EGEmma Grede1:04:47

        Yeah.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:47

        At least in part.

    17. EGEmma Grede1:04:49

        No, it's so interesting actually. Uh, that's the, that's the thing that we got right. I think that what we understood intrinsically is that there was this huge subset of customers that were left out of the fashion conversation, that if you were above a size 12 that there was almost nothing cute in the market for you. And what we didn't do was create any separation. We were just like, "We're gonna make 19 sizes of clothes." And what happens traditionally in most retailers is that you've got one set of sizes, and then you go up to floor five, and there's this, like, horrible little subsection, and you've got a bit of, you know, the assortment for petite and a bit of the assortment for plus-size women, and it's completely not reflective of what's downstairs for everybody else.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:29

        Mm-hmm.

    19. EGEmma Grede1:05:29

        And so we were like, "Do you know what? We're just gonna connect all of those things. We're just gonna make one product, we'll make it in 19 sizes, and whatever we do, we'll let the customers choose." So if we're making a dress with a giant slit up the side of it, we're not gonna moderate it because we think that a girl at a certain size

24. 1:05:45 – 1:12:05

    Meeting Kris Jenner and Pitching to Her

    1. EGEmma Grede1:05:45

       doesn't want the slit as high 'cause you know what? We bet she does. If we make a teeny tiny fluorescent pink bikini, we're gonna make it in every size, and we'll let the decision be down to the woman. And it turns out we were 100% right with our instinct because these girls weren't buying or because they didn't want to buy it, they weren't buying because it wasn't available anywhere. And so our instinct to just, like, make the stuff and put it out there and see who comes was the right thing to do.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:14

       What part of the strategy and the games you played in 2000 and...

    3. EGEmma Grede1:06:20

       18.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:20

       ... 18...

    5. EGEmma Grede1:06:21

       Mm-hmm.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:22

       ... could not be replicated now that was so important back then because the, the game has-

    7. EGEmma Grede1:06:26

       Oh, Steven.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:26

       ... has changed?

    9. EGEmma Grede1:06:27

       S- so many. The, the game has so changed. You know, the arbitrage that existed in social media then, like how you could pay to acquire a customer, is almost entirely gone. And so when I think about how we could work with Facebook and how, uh, we could work with Instagram, how powerful those followings were back then, you can't compare it to now. And so you could acquire a customer very cheaply. You could... Um, you know, I think that the, the algorithms worked completely differently, therefore the cohorts in your business behaved compl- completely differently. And if I think about it, we had a three-year golden period of runway. The good thing is I think we knew, and I always talk about the beauty of my board members at that time, going back to people like Andrew Rosen and John Howard, who were the total opposite to everybody else on my board that was like, "Emma, you need to just double down, acquire as many customers as possible, don't worry about profitability, just spend, spend, spend." And they were like, "Absolutely do not do that. You need a profitable business that works when this is over." And so I just was like, "I'm gonna do what these guys are telling me." (laughs)

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:40

        Hmm.

    11. EGEmma Grede1:07:40

        They have a lot of experience. They have a lot of successful businesses. They've been doing it for a lot longer, and so I think that while we, you know, created a foundation for the business that was really important that was rooted in being digitally native, we never, we never rested on that being the only way that we could meet customers. We were immediately saying, "We've gotta open our own stores. We've got to create a wholesale footprint," and when the tide turned, which it inevitably did, and that really happened, you know, COVID kind of gave you an acceleration, but then the fall off was pretty quick. We had this buffer of an incredible business that allowed us to stay the course.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:08:16

        So if one is, you know-... 2025-

    13. EGEmma Grede1:08:19

        Mm-hmm.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett1:08:19

        ... and they're trying to deploy a strategy to build any kind of brand, um, and they're thinking about the channels. If we think about, uh, B2C companies, so things like Good American, or it could be, I don't know, an energy drink or whatever, what ki- what kind of strategy are you thinking about now to acquire customers as being some of the most interesting but maybe unobvious?

    15. EGEmma Grede1:08:39

        Yeah, I really am blown away by what happens when you meet customers in real life, you know? And I think that some of the more experiential things that we've done that stay with people... You know, post-COVID, people wanna be together and they want to be in person and they want experience and they want memories and they want things that last and they want physicality and, and what's tangible. And so whatever you can do that brings those type of experiences, like in real life experience, is always gonna beat out anything that is, like more digitally native. And so a good example of that is we just opened a store on Sunset for SKIMS, and we connected the store opening with this incredible diner next door that's like a 24-hour-

    16. SBSteven Bartlett1:09:25

        (laughs)

    17. EGEmma Grede1:09:25

        ... kind of like Hollywood staple diner. There were queues around the block, every single slot for i- the entirety of the six days, and it's 24 hours, was booked within five minutes. And this is to get pancakes and, you know, chicken tenders and like a root beer float. And what was so interesting to me is, I took my kids, and it was so cute, you know, it's like a '50s diner with a jukebox and we SKIMS-ified the whole thing, it looked amazing. My three-year-old, two days later, said, "I wanna go back to the cafe." And I was, I was like, "You're English, that's so cool. Um, you wanna go to the diner?" She's like, "Yeah, I wanna get the thing with the cherry on the top." And I was like, "Wow," like in a three years- three-year-old's head that even like she had an impression of like that being like a special moment and something that's stuck in her mind. And I was like tho- those type of things for me are just way more valuable. Now look, if you're starting a business, it's really hard to do experiential, in real life, things like that. But I think the point is like getting in front of customers, like getting to them and, and that physicality of being in front of them, and whether that is if you're starting a new drink, like being in the supermarket, being in front of like the point of purchase, like that is really important to tell your story and have some physicality around what you're doing.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:39

        Are you seeing this idea of community becoming more and more important for building brands? Because a, you know, a couple of years ago, it was all like, just throw some Facebook ads out there and we'll get some influencers to tell them about it. Now we're seeing this transition towards like run clubs and yoga thing with the brand present and...

    19. EGEmma Grede1:10:56

        Yeah, I think it's c- I definitely think it's community. Um, and I, you know, when I think about what that means, um, for our businesses, you know, oftentimes it's really about like, like owning that customer experience, you know? It's like if you, if you... You know, for example, SKIMS has an app which is like an incredible place for customers to experience the brand. And I think there's like a lot of... Again, it's like there's high-low ways, there's very, very few brands that can be successful in an app, right? You've gotta really have so much brand affinity and so much love to that brand that people will come, get off of whatever they're doing, and like click and be in your app. So I think that's certainly not for everybody. I don't think that would work for a lot of the brands that I'm involved in. But the sense of like standing for something, having some kind of purpose, galvanizing people around something that isn't just about your product is, is probably the way to go, I think. And I... And you know, Good American has been so successful because it always stood for something. At the end of the day, we were selling blue jeans and white T-shirts, but people understand why they come to that brand. They understand that there's a purpose. But you also have to evolve that purpose continuously.

25. 1:12:05 – 1:12:43

    Pitching to Khloé Kardashian

    1. EGEmma Grede1:12:05

       And when I think about where we started eight years ago and where we are in the middle somewhere, we became B Corp certified, and that was another like real push for the company. It was very, very, very heavy lifting. But that was something that, for our staff, became so important to them. You know, d- denim is a tough business to be in. It's a very pollutive business. I have a lot of really young people, a lot of young mothers that work at the company, and they wanted to know that they worked in a place that cared about the world that they live in. And so it really was something that was an undertaking by that company to say, "We all feel that we could do so much better." And I think that

26. 1:12:43 – 1:14:23

    Turning an Idea Into a Business

    1. EGEmma Grede1:12:43

       the underlying values of that company are about it being about our customers and the people that work for- work there, and whatever is true to them being the most important thing. And so that has really evolved over time.

Episode duration: 2:06:19