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Dr. Thomas Seyfried: Sugar fuels tumors, ketones starve them

A biologist argues cancer is a metabolic disease, not genetic. Restrict glucose and glutamine, raise ketones, and starve tumors of their fuel.

Dr Thomas SeyfriedguestSteven Bartletthost
Oct 7, 20241h 37mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 1:59

    Intro

    1. TS

      Cancer is very preventable. When the medical establishment acknowledge what I know about this disorder, what's causing it, and what we're not doing to prevent it or treat it, it will be recognized as the greatest tragedy in the history of medicine.

    2. NA

      Thomas Seyfried is a professor of biology, genetics and biochemistry who has dedicated the past 30 years gathering scientific evidence on what could be-

    3. TS

      ... the true origin and prevention of cancer. Cancer is getting worse, and there's no major advance in reducing death rates. And I can speak to the reasons for that. All major cancer research centers think cancer's a genetic disease.

    4. SB

      You believe otherwise?

    5. TS

      It's not whether you believe, it's what the data tell us. And the evidence is massive to support that cancer is a metabolic disorder. And the problem is, we're doing everything we possibly can in our lifestyle to induce it. The scientific evidence is there. Like for example, we know that cancer was extremely rare in African tribes that were living according to the traditional ways. But when modern lifestyle entered into their societies, cancer out of control. We even did a study on dogs. We know that wolves in the wild don't die from cancer, but cancer is the number one killer of domestic dogs. Why? It's because of our lifestyle issues, and a lot of us are doing things without the knowledge that it would put us at risk. But with metabolic therapy, you can use it as both a prevention and a treatment. And we're seeing more and more of terminal cancer patients outliving their predictabilities because of this. And let me tell you one thing and remember it, if you do metabolic therapy, you can actually reduce risk for cancer. You can take away the fear.

    6. SB

      And when you say metabolic therapy, tell me what those things are.

    7. TS

      Number one...

    8. SB

      Before this episode starts, I have a small favor to ask from you. Two months ago, 74% of people that watch this channel didn't subscribe. We're now down to 69%. My goal is 50%. So if you've ever liked any of the videos we've posted, if you like this channel, can you do me a quick favor and hit the subscribe button? It helps this channel more than you know. And the bigger the channel gets, as you've seen, the bigger the guests get. Thank you and enjoy this episode.

  2. 1:59 – 2:37

    What Would Dr Seyfried Say He Does?

    1. SB

      Professor Seyfried, if someone walks up to you on the street and they're, you know, they know nothing about science and they know nothing about medicine, et cetera, and they asked you, "What do you do and why do you do it?" How would you respond?

    2. TS

      I'm a professor of biology at Boston College. So, uh, in that role, I spend a lot of my time working with undergraduates and graduate students in t- training them to be scientific literate in, in various aspects of biology. The research program that we have at the university is also focused on understanding, uh, how to manage cancer better, how it originates, and how to prevent it.

  3. 2:37 – 4:30

    How Much Of A Problem Is Cancer Globally?

    1. TS

    2. SB

      How much of a problem is cancer globally? What are the li- sort of headline statistics on the macro view of cancer, for someone that really doesn't know?

    3. TS

      Yeah. Well, it's getting worse. Uh, I can't say... There... It's in the millions. I, I, I know precisely what's going on in this country because the American Cancer Society, uh, l- e- every year, uh, distributes the data on, on cancer. Um, we have almost two million new cases diagnosed per year in the United States, and we have 1,700 people a day dying from cancer in, in the United States, which comes to about 70 people per hour in the United States. Now, when I went to China, I looked at some numbers there, and it was 8,000 people a day are dying from cancer. Obviously, the population is so much larger and, uh, I don't know what it is in the UK. I mean, we'd have to go f- to their cancer registries. But, but what we do know is that it's supposed to be a lot worse by 2050 than it is today. So there seems to be no reduction in deaths, suffering for this disease, and I, I can speak to the, the reasons for that. But right now, I would say it's a global, uh, epidemic of cancer. It's not, it's not getting better. It's getting worse. More people are dying from it. There's no major advance in, in reducing death rates, so it's a great tragedy. It's a... Um, and when we, when we understand what's causing it and what we're not doing to prevent it or treat it, it'll, it'll be recognized as the singular greatest tragedy in the history of, of medicine worldwide. When, uh, when, when they come to know what I know about this disorder and then they realize what we've been doing i- i- in, in a, in a misdirected way, it will be recognized as the greatest tragedy in the history of medicine.

    4. SB

      What types

  4. 4:30 – 5:02

    What Types Of Cancer Are People Dying From?

    1. SB

      of cancer are people dying from? What is the most popular types of cancer for men and women?

    2. TS

      Well, I... It's always been lung cancer pretty much for men and women. Uh, lung cancer has always been the number one. But, but we have pancreatic, breast cancer, colon cancer. These are all on the rise. Colon cancer's on the rise. Pancreatic cancer is on the rise in this country. I, I, I, I can't speak for other countries. They may dar- vary slightly, uh, due to diet and lifestyle issues, but lung cancer has always been recognized as, as the number one cancer.

    3. SB

      How many people

  5. 5:02 – 6:56

    How Many People Will Develop Cancer?

    1. SB

      in the United States then, based on the statistics, would develop cancer?

    2. TS

      Well, it seems to increase every year, so it's kind of a moving target. It doesn't seem to go down, you know? What it is today, I don't know, but what I do know is the numbers of people that are dying each day because the, um, American Cancer Society comes out with... I think it's 612,000 people, uh, will die this year, 2024, uh, from cancer in this year. So divide it by 365, and it comes out to just about 1,700 people a day. Divide that number by 24, and you get about 70 people an hour based on the numbers provided to us from the American Cancer Society when they say we've made major advances in man- in cancer incidences, right? So in the 1990s, they instituted the, uh, anti-smoking campaigns. All right? So today, if you read, they say, "We have reduced cancer deaths by 30, 31 or 32%."Wow, that sounds really impressive. So what they do is they take the number. This is what the National ... the American Cancer Society has done, and it's published in their papers. Okay. If we didn't stop smoking in the '90s, and everybody continued to smoke, the trajectory would be very, very high. Because we stopped smoking, or this, it's, we have 33% lower death than if we didn't stop smoking, but the trajectory is continuing to increase, maybe not as steep as it would have been had we continued to smoke. So it, it was clearly a prevention. It had nothing to do with a, a treatment. It had to do with prevention that was giving the, the, the, "Oh, we've made major advances in, in reducing cancer death rate." Yeah, because people stopped smoking for the mo- for... Many, many people, more people would have died had they not smoked. So we have, um, people that are

  6. 6:56 – 8:12

    Where Does Cancer Rank In The Probabilities Of Taking My Life?

    1. TS

      not, not real people, but just looking at what would have happened if, if we didn't stop smoking.

    2. SB

      What are the leading causes of death worldwide in terms of diseases? Is, is ... I, I hear that heart disease is number one.

    3. TS

      I think that's ... Heart disease is number one. Uh, cancer is number two.

    4. SB

      Okay. And there are many different types of cancer, right? I heard there's hundreds of different forms of cancer.

    5. TS

      If you look under the mi- electron microscope or, uh, correction, even a light micro- this is how most cancers are diagnosed by, by light microscopy. Uh, you look under the microscope and you see a bunch of cells that are dysmorphic in the way they look, and then they all have genetic defects and all this kind of stuff. But they all have one thing in common. They depend on a, on a fermentation, energy without oxygen. So all cancers are a singular type of disease. It's just that they happen in different tissues. But when you look at the underlying problem, they're all very, very similar. They can't live, uh, without a fermentation, which means energy without oxygen. So that's the common pathophysiological problem in all cancers, whether it's a colon, brain, breast, bladder, skin, uh, lung. We- we've looked at all these cancers, and they're all, they're all e- essentially using the same mechanism to, to grow out of control.

    6. SB

      Sorry, what

  7. 8:12 – 12:16

    What Is The Fermentation Process?

    1. SB

      is that, fa- fermentation you mentioned?

    2. TS

      Fermentation is energy without oxygen.

    3. SB

      What does that mean?

    4. TS

      Uh, we breathe air and we, uh, exhale CO2 and water vapor, and those are the waste products of the food that we eat. We bre- everything is broken down and combusted in our mitochondria of the cell, and the waste products are CO2 and water vapors. Those are the waste products. But if you and I were to stop breathing for any particular time period, uh, uh, our bodies would fill up with, uh, lactic acid and succinic acid, like if we were to have a heart attack or so- when somebody has a heart attack. Um, they don't die instantly. Uh, if, if they, if they're there without, for five or seven minutes without oxygen, they, they may die because the brain dies. But if you can get the heart to beat again and get oxygen back in the system, you can come alive again. But when we have that massive interruption of oxygen into our body, um, the cells fall back on an ancient ... They up- they immediately turn on these ancient pathways, uh, to get energy without oxygen for a short period of time. And that's the sugar glucose, which is already in our bloodstream from the food we eat, and the amino acid glutamine, which is a hi- an, uh, amino acid in our bloodstreams. Highest level of amino acid is the glutamine. These two fuels are now burned for energy, obtain energy without oxygen. There's no o- there's, uh, these pathways up-regulate, and you can get ATP, which is energy to keep you alive for a short period of time. But your bloodstream is filling up with the waste products called lactic acid and succinic acid. Lactic acid is coming from glucose, the sugar, and succinic acid is coming from the amino acid glutamine, and they build up, and that tells you you're fermenting. You're getting energy without oxygen because you're not breathing.

    5. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    6. TS

      Very simple. You're not breathing, but I'm not dead yet.

    7. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    8. TS

      Now, of course, if you don't get it for very long, you die. It's just that. Now, the other way you can stop, uh, oxygenation in our bodies quickly is with the poison cyanide. So if we d- god forbid, we were to take cyanide, we'd be both dead within, within a minute. We'd just pshoo, just ... Because our bodies are completely shut down of energy from oxygen. Now here's the cancer cell. The cancer cell lives in, in, can live in, uh, in cyanide. Uh, cyanide does not kill a tumor, okay? War- Otto Warburg showed this a long time ago, and we've also shown the same thing in our lab. Others have shown this. The interesting thing is when you look at cancer cells, even in the presence of oxygen, even in oxygen, they're throwing out lactic acid and succinic acid. What does that mean? That means the ener- the organ, organelle inside the cell that generates energy is not efficient. It's inefficient, and the cells are using a ancient fermentation. And when I say ancient fermentation, you have to realize the Earth is four and a half billion years old. Um, w- the organisms that existed on our planet, uh, two and a half billion years ago were all fermenters. There was no oxygen in the atmosphere until the photosynthetic bacteria started making oxygen. They were living cells. They had no oxygen, and they were growing like crazy, unregulated growth, just unregulate- wh- what's going on here? And they would die as soon as the fermentable fuels were dissipated. As they gobbled up everything, they would just die. So they lived as long as they could reproduce and have fermentation fuels. The cancer cell in our body is doing nothing than falling back on these ancient fermentation pathways that become ac- accelerated, up-regulated in the tumor cell because the efficiency of the energy coming from the mitochondria is now, um-... depleted. It's de- defective in many different ways. So this is very clear. And this happens in lung cancer, colon cancer. We've looked at all the major cancers and we found out these common defects are seen in all the cancers. So they're all very similar in their metabolism. They're very different in what they look like under the microscope. Lung doesn't look like colon, doesn't look like brain. Um, they're very different genetically. They're all different from each other, but

  8. 12:16 – 16:52

    How Have You Arrived At This Conclusion?

    1. TS

      they're all common in a dep- in a dependency on this ancient pathway of energy metabolism.

    2. SB

      Can you take me back? You mentioned, uh, a guy called Wa- Warburg there.

    3. TS

      Yeah.

    4. SB

      Can you take me back on the journey that the scientific community, or at least you have been on to arrive at the conclusion that the central sort of causal factor, at least an indication of a causal factor of cancer lies in this shift in energy systems? Where did this understanding start in, in research?

    5. TS

      Well, it started with Otto Warburg for sure, uh, in the 1920s. Uh, the other linkage before I could tell you what Otto Warburg did because I was like everybody else, I thought cancer was a genetic disease and, and I heard about Warburg, didn't really know what, what he was talking about or in- invested any time thinking about what he said. But Linda Nebeling was an, a PhD nursing student at Case Western Reserve University in, in Ohio, and she took these two little hopeless kids, uh, w- with brain cancer, we call hopeless cases when they have no, um, predictability of long-term survival, and she gave them a ketogenic diet to lower blood sugar, and she was able to rescue these kids. One, one, one eventually died. The other one was lost to follow-up. And she said it, her strategy was based on what Otto Warburg had said about glucose and cancer. So then I said, "Warburg?" I said, "Who the hell? What? Let me go back and check out who this guy was and what he did." Because I was seeing similar things in the, in the mouse with that drug that was lowering glucose and, and we were shr- shrinking these tumor cells. And we published a paper, uh, the first, one of the first ever papers linking that how high your blood sugar is determines how fast your tumor will grow in the mice, and now how this has been replicated in all human cancers. The higher your blood sugar, the faster the tumor grows. The lower the blood sugar, the slower the tumor grows. Un- undeniable for all different human mouse cancers. Wow. So Warburg had said this a long time ago, back in the 1920s. He, he was taking slices of all kinds of human and rat and mouse tumors and slicing them up, and he noticed something really strange about these, um, cancers. They take in less oxygen compared to the normal tissue from which they came. Wow, so they're kind of like oxygen deprived, and they were throwing out this lactic acid waste product that he was, that he was saying, and they were taking in so much more glucose than the normal. So the normal cells take in just a little bit of glucose and they can make tremendous energy from a tiny amount. This guy was taking in huge amounts of glucose, but not fully metabolizing it to CO2 and water, but dumping it out as lactic acid, which is a, a breakdown product of glucose that is not fully metabolized in the cell. "Wow," he said, "This is unbelievable." And then he did all kinds of tissue. I looked at his data. It was unbelievable. He was cutting humans, mice, rats, and seeing the same thing over and over again. And, uh, he was saying the origin of cancer has to do s- with something in the ability of the mitochondrion, the organelle to generate efficient energy from oxygen.

    6. SB

      So the, sorry, the mitochondria is the part of the cell that creates energy?

    7. TS

      It's the part of the cell that creates energy through oxidative phosphorylation, which is burning energy using oxygen. Okay?

    8. SB

      Okay. So it's like an engine?

    9. TS

      It's an engine, a very highly efficient engine. Uh, this is an organelle. Ev- you have to realize we have the cell-

    10. SB

      Yeah.

    11. TS

      ... and we have a nucleus that every- that everybody knows about.

    12. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    13. TS

      This nucleus, and then we have all these little organelles in there. We have lysosomes and we have the mitochondrion, which is like a spaghetti network inside the cell. They fuse... It's actually a second living, it's a second living organism inside our cells.

    14. SB

      And to simplify what they do, the mitochondria, they convert oxygen and glucose into energy?

    15. TS

      Yes. Uh, they combust, uh, energy. Um, they, they take... The foods that we eat have carbon-hydrogen bonds, okay? And we break those down inside our mitochondria, and we, and we, and we, when we break those bonds down, we create a, a hydrogen gradient and we dissipate that gradient through an impeller mechanism that generates energy like crazy. It's unbelievable. Very efficient. Highly efficient. But the cancer cell has corruption in that system, but it doesn't happen overnight. As Warburg said, "If you break that system too acutely and too fast, the cell will die." It doesn't have the... So you have to have two things to get from oxidative phosphorylation to, uh, energy with, with, with minimal oxygen fermentation. Just-

    16. SB

      Sorry, just to keep it simple, from a normal cell to a cancerous cell.

    17. TS

      From a normal cell to a cancer cell doesn't happen overnight.

    18. SB

      Okay.

    19. TS

      It's a chronic damage to the ability

  9. 16:52 – 19:17

    Why Do Cancers Grow So Rapidly?

    1. TS

      of, uh, of that organelle inside the cell to generate efficient energy. Okay? So all we have to know, uh, uh, with cancer is that they're... How are they growing so rapidly? Why are they going out of control? How come it's so hard to kill them? Because as long as you have those fermentable fuels that drive this ancient fermentation pathway, um, they will continue to grow. They're very hard to kill.

    2. SB

      And the fermenting fuels are glucose and?

    3. TS

      And glutamine.

    4. SB

      Glutamine?

    5. TS

      Yeah. Okay. So here, let's, let me tell you in a nutshell. Are you, are you ready? Brace yourself. Are you ready?

    6. SB

      I'm ready, I think so.

    7. TS

      Are, are you braced? Are you braced?

    8. SB

      Sufficiently br- braced.

    9. TS

      Sufficiently. (laughs) He's sufficiently braced. Okay. So, uh, a solution to the cancer problem to manage cancer without toxicity is to simultaneously restrict the two fuels that are needed to drive this dysregulated growth while transitioning the whole body off to a fuel that the tumor cells can't use, which is fatty acids and ketone bodies. So when we take the cancer patients or the mice-We put them into a calorie restriction, lowering the blood sugar, uh, that I said is one-half of the two fuels. You can lower that down really, really low. And then we use specific drugs to target the glutamine. And together, we can selectively restrict the two fuels while we transition the whole body over to, to ketones. We, as a species, evolved to be in nutritional ketosis for the mo- the majority of our existence as a, as a species, like one and a half million years. For, for centuries and centuries, thousands and thousands of years, our species, you and me, our ancestors were always in a state of nutritional ketosis because there was very few carbohydrates in the environment for them to be consuming, right? So the cancer cell, the body, you and I could, if we stopped eating and we took a low carbohydrate diet and just did water-only fasting, we would get into nutritional ketosis, where the normal cells, our brain, our k- kidneys, our heart can be burning these ketone bodies because they have good mitochondria and they can burn these fuels effectively. The tumor cells have a bad mitochondria. They can't burn those fuels. They're dependent on glucose and glutamine. We can replace glucose and glutamine with ketone bodies in the normal cells of our ... So we selectively marginalize these tumor cells slowly over time. Uh, we, they

  10. 19:17 – 21:23

    What Are Ketones?

    1. TS

      slowly start to die. The blood vessels disappear, and the body comes in and d- dissolves them.

    2. SB

      So for someone that has never heard the term keto before, ketosis-

    3. TS

      Yeah.

    4. SB

      ... or ke- ketones, in a simple way, what are keto- ketones?

    5. TS

      Ketones are water-soluble breakdown products of fatty acids, okay? They're beta-hydroxybutyrate, acetoacetate. These are small molecules that are water-soluble. The liver throws them out like crazy. Kidney a little bit, but mostly liver. So as I told you earlier, when we don't eat, um, you- you get anxious, mainly because our brains are addicted to glucose. It's like cocaine and nicotine and whatever. You start getting all antsy. "I haven't eaten anything," you know, uh, "What's going on?" Um, so you, then once the body realizes y- you ain't gonna eat anything, we have to start mobilizing out of our fat resources. And the fats, uh, go into the bloodstream as triglycerides, which are three fatty acids attached to a glycerol backbone. They go to the liver. The liver chops them up and puts out these little water-soluble, um, ketone bodies. Uh, the, the name ketone body is kind of a weird thing from biochemistry, but, but they're called ketone bodies. Um, and they can supply the brain with energy, the heart with energy, and not only that, they're a super fuel. It's unbelievable. The mitochondria burns these ketones, okay, but their ener- the ... Remember I was talking about how energy efficient the mitochondria become? When they burn ketones, they become even more energy efficient. It's unbelievable how you, you ... They don't need as much oxygen to generate, uh, more ener- it's like ... That's why they, my colleagues called, and some of the greats in the bio- in the biochemistry field call them super, super fuel, because you can get more energy bang for buck burning a ketone body than you can burning a pyruvate coming from glucose, or even a fatty acid. Uh, and the biochemistry for that is, is interesting. But, but the bottom line is when you transition away from these fuels to ke- we, don't forget, we evolved, our, our ancestors were always in a state of ketosis. You get into that state

  11. 21:23 – 24:36

    What Can We Learn About Cancer From Our Ancestors?

    1. TS

      by consuming very few carbohydrates and having a lot of energy, and this is the way our ancestors were.

    2. SB

      So what can we learn from our ancestors about cancer? How prevalent was cancer, um, when we look back at our ancestors if they were often in a state of ketosis?

    3. TS

      Yeah, well, um, it's hard to determine fr- uh, from skeletal records, uh, but I think we can look at, uh, um, modern popu- modern man who live according to their traditional, right, ways. Um, you know, uh, Albert Schweitzer, the great humanitarian physician, went to Africa and looked at Africans that were living according to the traditional ways, and he said, "One of the weirdest things, they don't have cancer." It's like, "What, what?" Uh, cancer was extremely rare in Africans, in, uh, Inuits living in, in, uh, in the areas. Uh, British, when they came, you know, in, in, in looking at the health conditions of folks that lived in the Arctic Circle, cancer was not there. They had other things, but they didn't have cancer. Um, aboriginal folks. So it seems as though, uh, our living ... We, we can't go back, uh, 50,000 years ago because we don't have people to examine. But we have people to examine today, and that was one of the things Schweitzer and several other, uh, physicians from Europe would go to Africa and they would look at these, some of these tribes that were traditional and they would say, "Whoa, what's going on with these Africans? How come they don't have ca-" (laughs) But when modern diet and lifestyle entered into their societies, cancer out of control. Um-

    4. SB

      What about, what about our other primate cousins?

    5. TS

      Yeah. Um, there's never been a documented, uh, case of breast cancer in a female chimpanzee, uh, and they're 98% similar to us in gene and protein sequence. Uh, you know, what's going on with that? Um, monkeys, uh, th- they don't generally form cancer. They're eating, they're not eating what we eat, okay? Don't forget, we did not evolve to eat pork pies and Dunkin' Donuts, jelly-filled donuts and pizzas. We, we did not. Our ancestors did not eat this, right? We were killing and eating animals. I, as I said, we ate everything that walked, crawled, flew, or swam on this planet became part of our diet. Uh, we did not have, uh, donuts on every corner, delicatessens on every corner. Our, we evolved over this period of time, just like our primate ancestors. Uh, the animals, chimps and gorillas and things that you see in the zoos are fed their natural diets as if they were living in, in their habitat, their natural habitat, whether it was in South America, Africa, or wherever it was. Uh, we're not throwing in jelly donuts every day and pizza pie into the chimpanzee pen. And as a matter of fact, I even went to the zoo down, down here in, in Boston, uh-... Franklin Park Zoo and also at the San Diego Zoo. I said, "How come, how come you guys don't give these guys, r- run down, and get a big pizza for these, for these animals?" "Oh, no, it'd be animal cruelty. Their systems aren't geared for this." "Well, well, neither are we." (laughs) We, we have an obesity epidemic. We have all these different chronic diseases. Why? We didn't evolve to eat all this crap that we're eating today. So what I've told many people in these podcasts is that our tech- food science and technology

  12. 24:36 – 25:44

    What Role Does Exercise Play In Fighting These Diseases?

    1. TS

      and our society's technology has evolved so much faster than our biology.

    2. SB

      Can you explain to me, in simple terms, the role that exercise is playing in staving off cancer?

    3. TS

      Well, exercise lowers blood sugar, you know?

    4. SB

      Okay.

    5. TS

      You, and, and also lowers glutamine, so, uh, the two fuels that are driving, um ... Now, we can't re- completely re- remove glutamine by exercise, that's for sure. Um, but we, my, my late good friend, George Cahill, published some papers on showing how exercise could actually lower, uh, glutamine availability. So it's, it's a little bit of a push. But you're also ... When you exercise, you're burning, and you're not eating a lot of carbs, your mitochondria are burning ketones, and the oxygenation from all the exercise is keeping those mitochondria super he- healthy at their highest level of energy efficiency. So exercise par-

    6. SB

      You're building muscle as well, aren't you? So-

    7. TS

      Yeah, you're building ... Well, you can build muscle, but you're certainly getting aerobic exercise to b- Uh, oxygen is coming in and you're burning ketones, which I already told you is a super fuel, so your body is super healthy. Uh, uh, these bodies from the Paleolithic period, these men were jacked. There was no obesity in these people. They had tremendous energy. They're, they're

  13. 25:44 – 29:07

    What Lifestyle Choices Are Causing The Cancer To Develop?

    1. TS

      not dying from, uh, the things that are killing us. They're dying from injuries and infections.

    2. SB

      When you described this sh- slow and gradual shift-

    3. TS

      Mm-hmm.

    4. SB

      ... in the cell-

    5. TS

      Mm-hmm.

    6. SB

      ... as it moves to this sort of ancient system-

    7. TS

      Mm-hmm.

    8. SB

      ... it sounded very gradual. So in my head I thought, "Okay, so does that mean that the cr- cancer is a gradual process that is kind of building up in me or isn't building up in me based on the lifestyle decisions I'm making and my environmental factors right now?" It d- Look, I'm trying to say, does, is, does cancer start slowly-

    9. TS

      Um-

    10. SB

      ... years before you, you, you know, you find it when the doctor says?

    11. TS

      Yeah, yeah, it, it's, it is a gradual process, but it can be impacted by several provocative agents from the, from the microenvironment. Um, lack of exercise, okay? So we're not exercising nearly as much as our Paleolithic ancestors, bar none, right? We have massive amounts of processed carbs in our diets. We have a lot of emotional stress, uh, um, mental/emotional stress that's impacting negatively, uh, on our biology. Um, we, we have lack of sleep, sleep, uh, a lot of us, because we, we have stresses ... You p- You have to have ... When you put all of these impactful things together in one person, you can put yourself at risk for cancer, all of which will damage and reduce the efficiency o- o- of mitochondria. And also, uh, the joy of living, uh, having friends and friendships and, and this kind of thing reduces stress in a lot of different ways, makes people enjoy getting up and, and having a, a nice day rather than being depressed or, or these kinds of things. Um, you put all, all this together and you put yourself in a li- a diet and a lifestyle that puts you at risk for damage to oxidative phosphorylation and the transition from one form of energy to a fermentation energy.

    12. SB

      And what I'm trying to understand, is that a (snaps fingers) gradual process?

    13. TS

      It's a gradual, a gradual transition. You have to be able to do that. And how long does it take for a colon, a group of, a group of cells in a, in a, in a crypt of your colon, to transition from one stage to another? You have to be constantly under stress, those cells in that organ. Now, why somebody gets colon cancer, another person gets breast cancer, another person gets bladder cancer, and some person gets a brain cancer, and all these different kinds of cancers, whatev- whatever happened, the process was dis- was causing a gradual disruption of oxidative pho- phosphorylation, oxidative respiration, and a, and a gradual transition to a fermentation. Like in the brain, the neurons rarely, if ever, get cancer, but the glial cells that support neurons, they are usually the source of the or- origin of cancer in the brain for those kinds of cells. And you can look at different cells and some are more or less prone. And why this guy got lung cancer from, from smoking cigarettes, this guy got bladder cancer from smoking cigarettes, how did it all start? It all started from a population of cells in one of those organs having an, a chronic, not instant, a chronic interruption of oxidative energy followed by an upregulation of this fermentation energy.

    14. SB

      So really, we need to be thinking about all the things that have caused dysfunction in the mitochondria?

    15. TS

      Absolutely.

    16. SB

      I wanna get a list of the key things that are associated with causing this dysfunction.

    17. TS

      Uh, okay, carcinogens.

    18. SB

      Okay, so carcinogens

    19. NA

      ... would be smoking-

    20. TS

      Yeah, and, you know, there's been many, asbestos, there's all kinds of chemicals in the environment. You hear about this, "Oh, there's a whole list of carcinogens we spi-"

  14. 29:07 – 31:09

    Is Cancer Genetic?

    1. TS

      And they put them on the, on the labels on different chemicals, they say carcinogenic potential and whatever you have.

    2. SB

      What are the types of things that are carci- carcinogenic that most people don't realize?

    3. TS

      Oh, well, now we're talking about microplastics, we're talking about, um ...

    4. SB

      Is that in part what causes breast cancer? 'Cause I always think about deodorant with breast cancer and, and the stuff that we're kind of-

    5. TS

      Oh.

    6. SB

      ... lathering onto our arms.

    7. TS

      Yeah, well, the, the one that was, was most interesting was the talcum powder one. How does talcum powder would cause ovarian cancer? Okay, it's taken up into your genital tract and it forms a foci in, in a part of the ovarian tissue.

    8. SB

      What's a foci?

    9. TS

      A locus, uh, like a collection of material. A pho- A foci is a, a, a, an area where, say, talcum materials would be accumulating.

    10. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    11. TS

      And that leads to a, a inflammatory, um, area of the body, and our immune system comes in to see what's going on. Uh, our immune system is a healing machine.... and they see something that's not, not normal. Normally, they would clean it up, but they throw, uh, grow- uh, cytokines and growth factors on there, leading to dysregulated damage to mitochondria and dysregulate us, and then you get this tumor that starts.

    12. SB

      So if I get a talcum powder s- uh, granule or whatever, and it goes into my body, my body then tries to attack it, to sort it out, and in doing so, it creates inflammation-

    13. TS

      Yeah.

    14. SB

      ... which leads to cancer.

    15. TS

      Damage to mitochondria in a particular group of cells near that foci.

    16. SB

      Okay.

    17. TS

      Okay?

    18. SB

      And th- this, this is applicable to, I guess, a lot of different nanopar- particles and-

    19. TS

      Yeah. Yeah. And microplastics, so this now, they're looking at this. But then we have chemical carcinogens, tetrahydrochloride, there's all kinds of other things that can actually damage, uh, arsenics, and, and these kinds of chemicals, um, urethane, uh, anything that could chronically damage, uh, a mitochondrion, forcing, over time, forcing it to up-regulate the fermentation, the energy without oxygen.

    20. SB

      Isn't this most things?

    21. TS

      Huh?

    22. SB

      I'm t- I'm trying to figure out what I, how to live my life

    23. NA

      (laughs)

    24. TS

      Yeah. Well, that's what that, that's why it was called the oncogenic paradox. But,

  15. 31:09 – 32:42

    How Do We Keep Our Mitochondria Healthy?

    1. TS

      but you can, you can avoid that. That's why I'm saying, if you can keep your mitochondria healthy-

    2. SB

      How?

    3. TS

      Exercise and reduce, uh, consumption of highly processed carbohydrates.

    4. SB

      Do I need to be avoiding these microplastics as well?

    5. TS

      You, you know, the problem with microplastics, they're very ubiquitous. We're not really sure, uh, we're just now becoming aware of it. Nobody really knew that before. Um, yeah, look it up. It's, but it could, it could cause, um, small foci in different populations of cells. But, you know, it's very hard to really chronically damage mitochondria. Mitochondria are a tough organelle. The problem is, we chronically abuse it without realizing what we need to do to keep it healthy. So even if you are exposed to chemical carcinogens, even if you are exposed to all these things, but you're keeping your body as healthy as you possibly can, you could possibly delay or even prevent the damage to the mitochondria, even though you have the, uh, even though you are being exposed to this. So it's a, it's actually in your hands. Um, you can actually reduce risk for cancer by knowing what keeps your mitochondria healthy. Vigorous exercise, uh, fasting, water-only fasting. Um, you know, it's very hard. Some, when sometimes we, when we were putting mice on calorie restriction, it was hard to get them to get tumors (laughs) . Their body was so healthy. This was shown years ago by, by a couple of scientists in mice, using mice with, that developed a lot of breast cancer. If you put them on a calorie-restricted diet, the incidence was way, way down. See, cancer is very preventable. It's a very preventable, uh, disorder.

  16. 32:42 – 36:27

    Is Cancer Genetic?

    1. TS

      It's just that we're doing everything we possibly can to (laughs) induce it in our diet and lifestyle.

    2. SB

      A lot of big institutions believe that cancer is a genetic-

    3. TS

      Mm-hmm.

    4. SB

      ... problem.

    5. TS

      Mm-hmm.

    6. SB

      Um, you believe otherwise?

    7. TS

      The evidence is striking. I mean, the beli- uh, it's not whether you believe, it's what the data tell us. Okay, so according to the somatic mutation theory of cancers, mutations in the nucleus lead to dysregulated cell growth. That's the somatic mutation theory. In the mitochondrial metabolic theory, it's a transition from oxidative phosphorylation to, to a fermentation metabolism inside, inside the cell. Um, the mutations are largely irrelevant. What do you mean by that? When the mitochondria become defective, they throw out ROS, reactive oxygen species, that are carcinogenic and mutagenic. Whoa, what does that mean? Causing mutations. So a lot of the mutations that we see in the nucleus of the tumor cell that is the subject of the somatic mutation theory, are downstream effects of the dysfunction of the mitochondria. So the mitochondria is causing a downstream effect, which are mutations, which are, according to the somatic mutation theory, are the cause of the dysregulated cell growth. Let me tell you why that's absolutely intr- untrue. There's some cancer cells growing out of control that have no mutations, and normally not discussed. Well, how can that be? That's a, a challenge to the theory. If the theory says that all cancers have mutations, and you have some cancers that have no mutations, and they're growing out of control, that should say, "Oh, bell ring one." Uh, then they, the, the somatic mutation, uh, people, people who think this, said, "Oh, okay. We have a, we have a problem here." Not all mutations are the ones that cause the dysregulation, only some, and we have a name for those some. That's called driver mutation. Okay, now it's a nice term, because some of those mutations are called passengers. They don't really do anything, but the drivers are the ones that lead to the dysregulated cell growth. So we should be focusing our attention on these driver mutations. New evidence from the recent scientific literature. Can you believe this? They're taking tissue, normal tissues from patients, different organs and things like this, from not patients, from normal people, no cancer, perfectly he- like yourself here. We would take tissue from you and say, "Oh my Christ, look at the, you got driver mutations in your esophagus and your, different parts of your body, you got driver, but you don't have a tumor." What's going on with that? How do you explain that these driver mutations are causing dysregulated cell growth, when we have thousands of driver mutations that are there that are not causing dysregulated cell growth? Oh, okay. That's a- another problem. The biggest devastating information against the somatic mutation theory is if you take the nucleus from a tumor cell, cleanly take it out of the tumor cell, and you have another normal cell here, you take the nor- the nucleus out of the normal cell, and you put the tumor cell into that cytoplasm, you get regulated growth, no dysregulated growth. But if I have the normal cell and have a tumor cell, take the tumor nucleus out of there and take the normal nucleus and put it into the tumor cy- cytoplasm, which contains mitochon- defective mitochr- dysregulated cell growth. This has been seen over and over and over again.

    8. SB

      So just to summarize that, so if you take the tumor nucleus out of the cell and put it into a, a normal healthy cell-

    9. TS

      Yes.

    10. SB

      ... um, everything's fine.

    11. TS

      Everything is fine.

    12. SB

      But if you take healthy cell nucleus and put it into a tumor cell-

    13. TS

      Yeah.

    14. SB

      ... you still have the same-

    15. TS

      Dysregulated cell growth.

    16. SB

      ... tumor growth, so which means that it's not the nucleus.

    17. TS

      Absolutely.

    18. SB

      It's something else.

    19. TS

      It's something else, and that's the mitochondria. And I told you, then you have cancer cells with no mutations.... and then you have driver mutations in normal cells that never become cancer. You put all those st- things together, and you have to be, um, a hopeless ideolog to think that cancer is a genetic disease. Um, it's a silent assumption in the field

  17. 36:27 – 38:27

    Why Haven't Opinions Changed Based On Dr Seyfried's Evidence?

    1. TS

      that cancer is a genetic ... You know, every textbook of biology, cell biology, and biochem, cancer's a genetic disease.

    2. SB

      Why hasn't people's opinions changed despite the evidence that you present?

    3. TS

      It's a very difficult thing. Ah, ah, it goes back to, um, when you have one, ah, one theory replacing another theory, it's called paradigm, paradigm shifts. And in, all in history of science, paradigm shifts have been met with great, great resistance. Ah, the clear, the clearest one was the Copernican Revolution when, ah, for eight, 1,800 years astronomers in our s- uh, um, um, our early astronomer, astronomers thought the Earth was immovable in the center of the solar system. For 1,000, this was Claudius Ptolemy, ah, Aristotle, and the Bible, and all these, Earth is immovable, and the sun, and the moon, and the planets all revolve around the Earth, 1,800 years. Even Copernicus, ah, was working with these mathematical formulations, his cap was being constantly confused until he said, "What happens if we put the sun in the center of the solar system and consider the Earth as simply another planet that would revolve?" All, all, all of a sudden things started to make sense. And Gi- Giordano Bruno, a, a, a theologian was put to death for suggesting (laughs) that Copernicus was right. Um, ah, there was a tremendous resistance on the part of the Roman Catholic Church at that time. And this is the same thing that happened whe- when, um, Louis Pasteur said that germs, that germs rather than bad air are the cause of disease. So, ah, and when Darwin- Wallace theory of evolution came, it's not special creation, it's, it's natural selection that, that can explain this. These were massive paradigm changes in the history of science, and what we're seeing today is the same thing. The mitochondria is the center of the problem with cancer, not the nucleus. The mitochondria. It's a mitochondrial metabolic disease. And once you realize

  18. 38:27 – 39:17

    If We Adopt This Mindset, What Will Happen To Cancer Statistics?

    1. TS

      that, we're gonna drop these death rates massively in a very, eh, number of years for sure.

    2. SB

      So if we take two paths then, if we realize that, that the mitochondria is the center of the dysfunction and ultimately disease in the cell-

    3. TS

      Yes.

    4. SB

      ... if we go that, down that path, what impact do you think that'll have on the canc- cancer statistics over the coming years?

    5. TS

      It'll drop it massively. Okay? I'm not gonna say we'll get rid of cancer completely. Ah, but what, here's the thing, we may never get rid of it, but we can learn to live with it and keep it at bay w- if we know how to ... if we know that it can't survive without these two fuels. And you can do a diet and lifestyle that can restrict the availability of those two fuels and keep your mitochondria as healthy as you possibly can.

    6. SB

      What if we don't go down that path, what do you think?

    7. TS

      Then you're gonna be right, one out of two people are gonna be having cancer. That with your statistics are gonna be, ah, ab- absolutely correct.

  19. 39:17 – 41:50

    Are The Current Cures Working?

    1. TS

    2. SB

      Is there anybody that you believe, 'cause, you know, when we talk about these subjects, often we think of, like, big pharma and incentives and money, and follow the money and you'll figure out why people don't want change. Are, is any of that sort of conspiratorial thinking correct in your view? Are there-

    3. TS

      I don't know if that's conspiracy. I don't like conspiracy terms. That's absurd. Th- I, I, I like what are the facts, uh, of what we're looking at.

    4. SB

      But do you see a resistance from big pharma to entertain this point of view?

    5. TS

      Um, what do you think?

    6. SB

      Or big food?

    7. TS

      What, what, what, what do you think? I mean, do you think this is, I mean, you're making a lot of m- not you, but, but people in these, in th- those industries, the hospital industry is making enormous amounts of money. They're awarding, we get, ah, $7 billion a year for cancer research in the, in the, in the National Cancer Institute, awarding gr- many, many, not all, many grants to looking for gene mutations and all this kind of stuff. Um, and we have drugs that are extremely expensive based on a somatic mutation theory of cancer that are basically not dropping the death rate. As I said, we got s- while we're talking here we're gonna have 140 people dead, ah, from cancer. Uh, 1,700 people a year it's getting worse and worse. Um, with, as you said, we're always running for, raising money for cancer research. Ah, where's all that money going? What are you doing with all that money? No accountability. And then when you look at the scientific advisory committee of all these societies that you're running for, they all think, publish papers on cancer as a genetic disease. It's too hard for the field to accept at this point. Um, it's, it's too traumatic a- at what I'm saying, it's too disruptive to a, a massive industry, ah, at this time. They will come to gradually ad- adjust to what I'm saying, it's just a matter of time, because we cannot conti- continue this trajectory. It, it, it's immoral what we're doing to some of these people.

    8. SB

      I read a stat that said the global incidents of early onset cancer increased by roughly 80% between 1990-

    9. TS

      Yeah.

    10. SB

      ... and 2019. That's in the BMJ Oncology.

    11. TS

      Mm-hmm.

    12. SB

      Um, early onset of cancer is basically patients under the age of 50.

    13. TS

      Yep.

    14. SB

      And, and when I think about this, you know, growing up in the UK, whenever there's a, a fun run, a charity race-

    15. TS

      Mm-hmm.

    16. SB

      ... a marathon, whatever it might be-

    17. TS

      Mm-hmm.

    18. SB

      ... cancer research gets the money.

    19. TS

      Yeah.

    20. SB

      And to hear that, you know, there's been so much money invested in cancer research over the last couple of decades, but there's been an increase of 80% in early onset cancer in the same period-

    21. TS

      Mm.

    22. SB

      ... for me, I'm like w- this research doesn't appear to be do- being very effective.

    23. TS

      Well, as I said, you gotta find ... What people don't do is they never ask where does the research go, what kind of research ... What, what are

  20. 41:50 – 49:10

    The Current Technologies Used To Prevent Cancer

    1. TS

      you doing? What is the research? It's the theory that drives the, the impetus to do research.

    2. SB

      Now a lot of great stuff has been done on, you know, keeping people alive that suffer from cancers, right?

    3. TS

      Yeah.

    4. SB

      'Cause if you think about the probability of dying from s- a cancer, I'm, I'm assuming that has gone down?

    5. TS

      Yeah. Uh, to some extent it has. You know, we call it, there's two f- ways of looking, it's called, uh, progression-free survival and overall survival. Ah, these are the terminologies that are used in the clinical world of cancer. Uh, uh, the, and they, they rec- represent the approval of drugs through the Food and Drug Administration.If you have a drug that improves, uh, progression-free survival, uh, eh, progression free means it looks like the drug is working on the tumor. Um, because, you know, the tumor, you can see it, it gets bigger and bigger and more lethal and more lethal. And, and if I see it not growing nearly as much, uh, I say, "Wow, look at the, it's, it's slowing the, what we call traditional progression." Okay? It's called progression-free survival. And then you have overall survival. So you have w- two ways to approve drugs mostly for cancer, right? How does it work on progression-free survival and how does it work on overall survival? Well, they stopped looking at overall survival. Now somebody's gonna bark and say, "Well, you know, bottom line is mostly progression-free." Which means that the patient's, it looks like the tumor is being effectively managed, but they live only a couple of months longer, eh, than they would've if they didn't use this drug. So therefore it's approved. And, and, and, um, that as opposed to overall survival. You know, you're, you're only living a two, okay, you lived two and a half extra months. Ah, the tumor looked like it was managed pretty well, but your overall survival is, is this much, but you, you're, you didn't see the tumor growing. Uh, we're gonna approve that drug. So a lot of the new drugs that we're giving do a really good job at progression-free survival, but they do a horrible job in keeping people alive much longer, which ultimately is what you wanna do. You want overall survival. Let, let me give you an example. Avastin, uh, bevacizumab. This, this is an immoral drug that should never be used on people. It was blocked because it caused colon perforations in women with breast cancer. They still use it on brain cancer. And when you, and so the, in the tumor you get a, a tumor you can see it with PET imaging and you can, th- not so much PET, see, uh, uh MRI and CAT scan you can see it there. And it, it's looking there, okay, uh, you can see it. Now you give the patient Avastin and, uh, which is this, um, antiangiogenic drug. It's supposed to stop the abnormal blood vessels, right? They think that the angiogenesis blood vessels is, is driving the dysregulated growth. It's the fermentation that's driving the dysregulated growth, by the way. So all of a sudden you give the, um, pshew, the tumor kind of disappears. It doesn't look like it... Whoa! Patient gets all excited. The physician looks and says, "Look at the, look at the... Looks like you're doing well." What it does the Avast-, what the drug does is it causes the tumors to pshew, permeate your highu- your entire brain. Just pshew, like spreading it through your whole brain. You don't live any longer, uh, but you had this progression-free... Look at the tumor. So the patient gets excited because it looks like the tumor's disappearing with this very expensive drug. But what it does is it almost guarantees that that patient will not survive, because you spread the tumor c- cells through the whole brain. So, um, this is why I call it an immoral kind of a, a thing.

    6. SB

      But chemotherapy and sort of these radiation therapies, they have proven to keep people alive who otherwise would have died, right?

    7. TS

      In some cases, m- they, it can. And, and that's another thing we have to look at. We have, w- and I, I work heavily in brain tumors and glioblastomas and things like that. When you irradiate somebody's brain, uh, who has one of these tumors, you free up massive amounts of glucose and glutamine in the microenvironment. And if you look at the survival, when we did survival, looked at survival curves for glioblastoma throughout the world, oh, it's som- you can't even design experiments so consistent how fast people will die. It's like e- all the different hospitals have the same survival. Same survival. What are you doing? "Well, we do chemo, we do surgical debulking, uh, temozolomide, and we give steroids which raise blood sugar, and we irradiate. We irradiate. We irradiate and everybody's dead." So, um, not everybody, but, you know, s- five-year survival is, is very, very low. Ten year survival is almost zero. Um-

    8. SB

      But if you got, if you got a breast cancer, or if you got-

    9. TS

      No, this is brain cancer I'm talking about.

    10. SB

      Brain cancer, right.

    11. TS

      This is freeing up. Now, yes, if you have a circumscribed tumor and it's not anywhere else, you can come in with a radiation or surgical procedure and cure, essentially cure that patient. But if you have any level of spread or anything like this, um, that per- that person now... And, uh, also, if you're taking a toxic poison into your body, like Red Devil, doxorubicin, they call it Red Devil. Your pee turns red, everything turns red.

    12. SB

      What is, is that chemotherapy?

    13. TS

      Yes. It's a chemotherapy to kill a small group of cells, um, or maybe a little bit of a spread. But your bo- your hair falls out, your body gets brutalized, um, by this. And then if you survive the cancer, and many people do. We have millions and millions of cancer survivors on this planet. But many, many folks in that group suffer from the adverse effects of being poisoned or irradiated or surgically mutilated. I mean, they have to change their whole... And oftentimes the cancer comes back or they die from cardiovascular disease or they die from secondary adverse effects of being brutalized, uh, m- with medieval, I call it medieval a- approaches to this. Are you kidding me? What they're doing to cancer patients? So when we do metabolic therapy, we, we shrink the tumor down for sure. Then the surgeon can come in and he sees its smaller, fewer blood vessels because of the metabolic therapy, and we can take out a greater amount, uh, o- of this. And then we transition back to prevent this tumor from recurring. Metabolic therapy can be used to not only prevent the cancer, but can also be used to treat the cancer. Now let me tell you, they go, most hospitals, so most people say, "Well, I, you know, I really want to do things to prevent cancer. Can I do standard of care before I have a tumor?" What do you mean? You want to go into a, a, a, a major cancer clinic and have toxic doxorubicin and radiation to your body just in the event that you might get a cancer? This is absurd. But yet when you have cancer, that's what they do to you, right? (laughs) But with metabolic therapy, you can use it as both a prevention and a treatment. It's just that with the treatment, we bring in some more drugs to target the glutamine. We don't do that on the prevention side.

    14. SB

      On the... I was just looking at some stats as you were speaking around this five year survival rates of a variety of different cancers-

    15. TS

      Mm-hmm.

    16. SB

      ... um, over time. And it does appear that survival rates of these cancers, from breast cancer, prostate cancer, to lung cancer to leukemias, um, various melanomas, has improved since the 1970s.... so the 1970s to the 1990s, to the 2010s, there's been an improvement in the survival rate-

    17. TS

      Mm.

    18. SB

      ... um, which I guess is a credit to the research that's been done. Um, what you're saying is that the s- the treatments we have still today-

    19. TS

      Mm.

    20. SB

      ... are horrific.

    21. TS

      Yeah. And the tr- and the survivals are not that much greater. It's not like you're getting massively longer survivals.

    22. SB

      Yeah. I mean, and I have to, I, I have to preface that these stats might not be right, because this is-

    23. TS

      Yeah.

    24. SB

      ... AI we're dealing with here.

    25. TS

      Yeah.

    26. SB

      But the, there's a 5%, for example, with breast cancer between the 1990s and two t- 2010, there's just a 5% difference-

    27. TS

      In overall survival?

    28. SB

      In overall survival.

    29. TS

      Okay. So your survival i- is, your, your overall survival is two and a half to three months greater?

  21. 49:10 – 51:06

    How Do We Prevent Cancer?

    1. TS

    2. SB

      I don't actually have those stats in front of me, but yeah, that's what you're saying.

    3. TS

      No, but that's, that's, uh, that's the, the evidence, the papers that we're looking at.

    4. SB

      So, so how do we prevent prevent this then? Uh, I'm 32 years old now. So I want to make sure that I live my life in such a way that I limit my chance of cancer. One of the things I always reflect on is the fact that s- many of the people that I know that have got cancer, breast cancer or other forms of cancer-

    5. TS

      Mm-hmm.

    6. SB

      ... appear to be remarkably healthy.

    7. TS

      Yeah. Always at the beginning. Uh, uh, they, they, not always, but many times, the person comes in, "Geez, I just was diagnosed with cancer. I didn't know I had it. I didn't feel bad. I..." And then all of a sudden, you get treated, and they look like death warmed over.

    8. SB

      But I'm saying like, how can, how can healthy people be getting cancer if there's this sort of central-

    9. TS

      Well, because you, I, as I said, our, the, the, uh, the, the... and we're seeing this. I'm seeing it in my own, I, I'm getting more and more emails from young people in their 30s, uh, late 20s, 30s, early 40s, like, with colon cancer, breast cancer, and all these kinds of things. But look at our diet and lifestyle situation today. Those, those things that I'm talking about, lack of exercise, a lot of stress, poor sleep, bad food, all of this kind of stuff impacting parts of our bodies.

    10. SB

      So what do we do about it though?

    11. TS

      Know about it.

    12. SB

      And then, and then what do we do? So I know now.

    13. TS

      That's, that's personal choice. I'm not here to take pizzas and, and jelly donuts off the market for sure, or f- breakfast cereal. I love that stuff too. But the qui- the question is I don't eat it every day, and I know if I do, it'll kill me. (laughs)

    14. SB

      Humming.

    15. TS

      (laughs) So, so yeah, uh, skipping meals, w- water only fa- occasionally. There's a lot of things you can do to keep your mitochondria healthy.

    16. SB

      Okay. So tell me what those things are.

    17. TS

      I just exercise.

    18. SB

      Exercises and-

    19. TS

      You look like you're a pretty healthy guy.

    20. SB

      Yeah. I go to, I go to the gym, but I-

    21. TS

      You don't look morbidly obese to me.

    22. SB

      No, not yet. Um-

    23. TS

      Not yet? Well, that's important because you don't ever want it yet.

    24. SB

      Uh, we won't be in America too long, so my chances-

    25. TS

      Yeah, yeah, well, and listen, it's not just the United States. We were kind of like the first ones to plow that field, but, uh, it started to spread everywhere. I think in China they have the most, 200 million obese people in China now.

    26. SB

      So should I be on a keto

  22. 51:06 – 54:57

    Should I Be On A Keto Diet?

    1. SB

      diet then?

    2. TS

      Here's what we did, okay? Uh, we developed a glucose ketone index calculator at Boston College, all right? My students and I, because we were trying to, uh, work with cancer patients' blood sugar and ketones, um, independently of each other. Uh, we had a ketone meter and we had a blood glucose meter. So we were mo- monitoring ketones by itself and glucose by itself. And we worked with a, a very nice woman, um, from, American who lived in Nice, France, who since passed away from a brainstem tumor. It's very, very difficult. We kept her alive very long, but eventually... We didn't know what we need, what we know now. But she got into an argument for a handicapped parking spot with her neighbor upstairs, and her blood sugar, and blood sugar went through the roof. She ran upstairs and she took her blood, blood sugar, and she says, "Oh my God, the tumor's gonna grow." I said, "What's your ketones?" And she says, "Oh, it's still two and a half millimolar." Well, that's still pretty high. Usually, it's very, very low. It's str- ver- very high. So my students and I, we said, "You know, this is too traumatic to try to measure these two independently. Why don't we make a singular number, divide the glucose in millimolar in the blood by the ketone in millimolar in the blood." Now you get this number that's much more stable, and it allows the cancer patient to know that, "If I keep this zone at 2.0 and below, my tumor cells aren't going to be able to grow very fast." I did this for the brain cancer, right? Now it's being used for all cancers, and now it's being used for guys like yourself who just want to stay healthy. And it... Because what it is essentially is a quantitative determination if you're in the Paleolithic zone or not. Oh, so if I'm at 2.0 like my friend, Dominic D'Agostino, he's always down in these zones. He's living the pa- he's a Paleolithic man living in modern society. What's-

    3. SB

      What's a Paleolithic man?

    4. TS

      That's how our ancestors were during the Paleolithic period.

    5. SB

      Okay. So he's-

    6. TS

      We-

    7. SB

      ... got the right balance of glucose and ketones in his blood?

    8. TS

      Yeah, like we did when we were hunting mammoths and, and buffaloes and these kinds of things, when we were hunter-gatherers, uh, in the thousands of years of our existence as a species, tens of thousands of years. He is in that zone. He-

    9. SB

      Is he in keto? Is he-

    10. TS

      He's o- yeah, well, that's the, that's what the low GKI is. That means you're at a level of keto.

    11. SB

      Okay.

    12. TS

      Now, yes, he doesn't eat a lot of carbohydrates in his diets. He eats leafy vegetables and a lot of meat and, and this kind of thing. Uh, sparingly on fruits. Uh, like grapefruits, we learned from the epilepsy field, grapefruits provide a tremendous amount of vitamin C with no- and do not spike glucose. That's, that's very interesting. So you can have, uh, certain fruits that can keep you in this metabolic zone of pa- I call it the Paleolithic zone, which is the way we evolved when there was no cancer in our, in our existence.

    13. SB

      When people hear that, they might start jumping on the paleo diet. I don't even know what the paleo diet-

    14. TS

      Not a paleo diet. It's, it's, uh, diets that are low in carbohydrates, okay?

    15. SB

      Okay.

    16. TS

      Um, Mediterranean diets. Like, people say to me, they told, "What should I eat? Should I eat this and that?" Normally, you would eat foods that have very low, low glycemic index, which means the speed with which glucose is released, like a banana, very high in glycemic index. You eat a banana, your blood sugar immediately spikes. Many fruits are like that. Um, but you want, you want foods that keep a low steady, uh, um, GKI. Now, I built that, uh, calculator for brain cancer patients initially. Then we realized it's powerful for all cancers. Uh, we put the cancer patient in the low glu- glucose ketone index.... we get them down in there. Then we come in with the glutamine targeting drugs to, to kind of polish off these tumors or put them in even a more dormant state. But now we're finding all these young k- y- like yourself, all these 30, f- 20-year-olds, what's your GKI? I mean, they're out there weightlifting and they're looking at their G- they don't have cancer. They're just excited to see if they th- they can get into this Paleolithic zone by themselves. And that, yes, that will prevent cancer because you can't get cancer if your mitochondria are healthy. If you, if you're in a Paleolithic zone where our ancestors rarely, if ever, got cancer, then you're, you're back in this, "Oh, you

  23. 54:57 – 57:14

    Dr Seyfried's Dog Study

    1. TS

      mean to tell me I can't eat this and I can't eat that?" "What does it do to your GKI?" "Oh, it makes it go up." "Well, don't eat that." (laughs)

    2. SB

      So you did a study on dogs, uh, a dog with a tumor.

    3. TS

      Yes. Yes.

    4. SB

      Can you tell me about that study?

    5. TS

      Uh, it was a woman came to me and this is ... What I say doesn't, you don't have to have a, a, a, a PhD in biochemistry to understand what some of the things ... This woman had no degree whatsoever. She just heard the, uh, about what we did to these mice and she did the same thing to her dog. Uh, it was a pit bull, and at age seven years old it had a big mast cell tumor on its lip. So she listened to my YouTube video over and over. She said to me, "I just kept listening." And she says, "I, I got, I, I, I, I got some raw chicken." She says dogs, uh, wolves evolved to eat chickens. So she got some, uh, chicken, chopped, chopped up the chicken. She cut the calories of ... She found some dog food calculator to how much calories the dog was getting. She cut the calories. The dog los- lost only 5% of its body weight. She got, uh, pollock, fish oil, raw eggs, and cut all the calories to ... Everything was all natural for this dog. Um, and all of a sudden, we have the pictures, you can see them in the pic- if you saw the picture, big, big tumor on its lip that the, the phys- the veterinarian said, "This dog is gonna ... To survive you have to give him chemo and radiation and surgery and all this kind of stuff and it's gonna cost a lot of money. The dog's gonna have diarrhea. It's gonna be-" You know, all ... She didn't want any part of that. So she said, "Well, let's just try this metabolic thing." And we ... And she kept all the records and the pictures and what she did and how much she gave the dog and all this, so I, I was able to get all that information from her, um, put my friend Lauren, uh, Lauren Nations, who is a veterinarian, uh, on the paper because I said, "What biology guy at Boston College is telling you how to manage cancer in a dog? We gotta have some veterinarian on here to validate, to make sure he's there." And he's looked at the pictures and we looked at all the thing. It disappeared. So what happened was the dog eventually died of heart disease at 15 and a half years of age. So essentially, that's the only s- when people say, "Well, metabolic therapy cure cancer," I, I say metabolic therapy is never consider a cure for cancer. It's an effective non-toxic management for cancer. But in the case of that dog, it appeared to work. (laughs) It appeared to cure the dog. But that's the only one

  24. 57:14 – 1:03:39

    Human Cases Of People That Have Followed Your Research

    1. TS

      I'll say, "Oh, he's gonna say he cured cancer." No. That dog happened to get ... He died from old age, from a heart, heart attack. And we did it with a brain tumor guy, Pablo Kelly, who just passed away unfortunately from a, from a surgical, um ... His, his, uh, he had a major, uh, cerebral hemorrhage after his surgery, from Devon, England. You know Devon, England?

    2. SB

      That's where I'm from.

    3. TS

      Are you from Devon?

    4. SB

      Yeah.

    5. TS

      Oh, wow. Well, Pablo was there. He just passed away unfortunately. We've talking to him the day before he passed away.

    6. SB

      Pablo?

    7. TS

      Pablo Kelly. So he was from Devon, England. Had a glioblastoma, which is the worst of the worst. Uh, they said ... And he's all over your, your newspapers there in Devon. Oh, he was always sending me articles from England. Um, man d- rejects standard of care. So he, he had this glioblastoma and they took the tissue out and they-

    8. SB

      Which is brain cancer.

    9. TS

      Yeah, brain ... The worst of the brain cancers, you know. Uh, they took the tumor out and they said, uh, "Oh, you ... It's in- inoperable, inoperable." And, uh, "But if you do radiation and chemo, uh, we, you might live nine, maybe 12 months at the most." Well, Pablo came from a family of like, "We don't dabble in, in this kind of medicine. We're more holistic kind of people." So he emailed me, this was in 2014, um, and said, "I wanna try this metabolic thing." So he rejected, uh, chemo and radiation and they said it wasn't surgically d- uh, capable of being completely removed anyway, so he did this ... I t- I gave him the information that I give to everybody. And this was way back before we knew a lot of what we now know. And, uh, I said, "This poor guy," he says, "he doesn't want it." And they said, "You're gonna be dead." They g- they browbeat him. They try to force him to put that radiation mask on. They hacked his beard off, uh, all this kind of stuff and he just jumped up. He said, "I can't do this stuff." So, um, he didn't take any steroids. He didn't take any, any radiation. He didn't take any chemo. He just did the metabolic therapy and he's on English televi- or things with all of his paleo diet, which actually a low car- very low carbohydrate diet. He had the avocados there. He had the fish oil there. He had this different stuff. Uh, uh, two and a, three years go by. He emails me. I said, "Jesus, Pablo, I thought you would have been dead." (laughs) "You're still alive? What's going on with that?" (laughs) So, so (laughs) he calls me up and he says, "You know, um, I went in for a CAT scan the other ..." Th- doctors are like still surprised that he's alive and they said, "This tumor is, is still there and it's growing and they think they can cut it out now." So he was three years on, on just metabolic, um, approach. He didn't take any glutamine inhibitors, which was really remarkable. So, and so anyway, he asked me and I have, I have physician friends that, uh, radiologists that can look at it and then we measured it when it was first, first diagnosed in 2014 and then we saw it did become a little bigger. So ... And the, now the surgeon said, "I think I can get it. It looks more, more resectable." Here it was inoperable, now it becomes resectable. So he took it out and, um, Pablo recovered really well and, uh, the surgeon says, "I think I got it all." Wow. So, so ... And, and Pablo is measuring his glucose ketone index with our keto monitor, so I had every day, sometimes two and three ... five years of data on Pablo Kelly. Can you believe this? So, so anyway, Pablo thinks he's cured because, uh, the doc- the surgeon ... All of a sudden he goes back to his kind of-... weak, weak ways. And you can see the, th- his GKI goes up and all of a sudden the tumor starts to show up again. Puts the fear of God back into him, goes back on a more restrict condition. Another three years goes by and this time the tumor's growing s- slowly, very slow. Now don't forget, glioblastomas kill you very quickly. Um, with standard of care you can barely get out of, at his age, if you can get two years, you're doing, you're doing really good. So anyway, now he's three and he's got six years out and he says, "You know, um, uh, it's still back, you know." He said, "I gotta go in." So his first, so this is second debulking. First debulking, he goes off, gets back on. Another, second debulking. S- another three years goes by, he has a third debulking. Can you believe this?

    10. SB

      A third debulking?

    11. TS

      Debulking is the cutting the tumor out. It's the, the removal, surgical removal of this tumor. But he's never had radiation or chemo or any other kinds of stan- what we call standards of care. So for... And now, um, he, he has, uh... I talked to him a couple of weeks ago and, uh, he was doing, he was doing really, really good. He had the, the third removal and we were laughing, th- uh, with myself and Dr. Duryea and o- my associates. He says, "Yeah, can you imagine? Um, uh, I've had now three operations on a previously inoperable tumor." (laughs)

    12. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    13. TS

      So we were saying, "Wow, they got that one wrong, didn't they, Pablo?" And they kept wanting to irradiate him and do all this stuff and he said, "No, no. Gonna keep doing this." And so we were speaking to him and, and, uh, he's now 10 years. Uh, the tumor was, was diagnosed in, in, in August 2014 and he passed away August, uh, 2024 from, they tried to go in and get the last bit of tumor out of his brain. He came out at, we got him, uh, we talked to him. Th- th- a thumbs up, smiling, talking like crazy. Six hours later, cerebral hemorrhage and he dies. So, uh, he didn't die from the cancer. He died from the, a, a, a surgical, a problem with the surgery. So he was a l- n- you talk about long-term survivors.

    14. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    15. TS

      Uh, you rarely survive two years with a glioblastoma. The fact that he was out 10 years, and if he hadn't had that last bit of surgery, the guy would have still been alive, 'cause y- he was talking like you and I are talking. This is a guy who has a, a terminal... So I said to Pablo, I says, "You could outlive me."

    16. SB

      Hm.

    17. TS

      I, I says, I said, "We're all terminal to some extent." Right? We're never, all of us aren't gonna live to... I says, "You're..." He was a young guy, he was only 20, 22 or 23 when he was diagnosed, he was in his 30s now when he passed away. 10 years, so he's 33, 34 years old. And, and I said, "You know, I could be dead before you." And, uh, we were laughing and we had a good time and the next thing I know, I get an email from his wife, he said, "Pablo is, is on, on, on, on, uh, br- brain dead." And something, I said, "What the hell happened? What happened to this poor guy?" And it wasn't the cancer. So, um, who kn- how kn- I don't know what, how long he would have lived, how many more things, but what I'm saying... Oh, here's an anecdote. Well, listen, if I had a drug that did what, what metabolic therapy did and I could get more people like Pablo, are you kidding me? They'd be run- running all over the world.

    18. SB

      And when you

  25. 1:03:39 – 1:04:36

    What Is Metabolic Therapy?

    1. SB

      say metabolic therapy, you mean the combination of the calorie restrictive...

    2. TS

      Yeah.

    3. SB

      ... ketogenic approach?

    4. TS

      Ye- yes. Yeah.

    5. SB

      With-

    6. TS

      Avoiding. Well, first of all, you're avoiding, you're avoiding things that are gonna kill you. The radiation is gonna kill you for the, uh, for many people. Not all people. Okay, everybody say, "Well..." L- listen, you can s- you can look at the... Go have people look at the data themselves, for crying out loud, and you can see how long you're gonna live. He didn't do what they, what they grab everybody in.

    7. SB

      What did he do specifically?

    8. TS

      He didn't take radiation or chemo.

    9. SB

      Yeah.

    10. TS

      And he brought his glucose ketone index down to the 2.0 zone.

    11. SB

      Okay.

    12. TS

      And kept it, kept it low. And he took some supplements and a few things here and there.

    13. SB

      Right.

    14. TS

      But he wasn't really targeting the glutamine like we th- with, like we, we, th- we, we found now certain parasite medications will be effective in targeting glutamine. So we're doing all non-toxic strategies to manage cancer. You don't have to be brutalized by the system if you know what to do and how to do it. The problem, the problem is most of the poor oncologists never heard of what I'm talking... The stuff I'm telling you right now, they never heard of it.

    15. SB

      The risk is someone

  26. 1:04:36 – 1:07:52

    What Should Someone That Has Cancer And Is Listening To This Do?

    1. SB

      gets cancer that's listening to this, or someone has cancer that li- that's listening to this... I mean, statistically there's a lot of people listening to this that have cancer right now.

    2. TS

      Hm. Yeah.

    3. SB

      And they're, they're speaking to their doctor.

    4. TS

      Yeah.

    5. SB

      And their doctor is saying chemotherapy, radiation therapy, et cetera, et cetera.

    6. TS

      And gluc- glucose has nothing to do with tumor. Eat whatever you want.

    7. SB

      Yeah, and so what do you say to those people who are, if they've just got a diagnosis, um, and their doctors are saying, "Right, listen. This is pretty ba- severe. We're gonna suggest that you take chemotherapy"?

    8. TS

      Yeah.

    9. SB

      You're not telling them not to take chemotherapy, are you?

    10. TS

      I'm not telling them that. And what we found, what we found is that when you are in, uh, nutritional ketosis with a glucose ketone index of 2.0 or below, my colleagues that we work with in Istanbul, Turkey were able to show that chemotherapies at much lower dosages can be even more therapeutically powerful when you're in nutritional ketosis. So you don't have to get rid of a lot of these different procedures that we have today. I'm just saying radiation for brain cancer. I'm not saying radiation for lung or some of the other cancers.

    11. SB

      Okay.

    12. TS

      Because if you can, if you can shrink those tumors down and make them very weak and vulnerable, a surgical procedure, a radiation procedure, even low dose chemo could come in, and even immunotherapy. If you, if you took a big tumor and shrunk it down to a small, small nub and it's resistant to a lot of the things, they all have to share something in common for them to survive this, this path. That might be an immunotherapy could come in, because they're gonna target whatever all of them have together and you could possibly get rid of it that way.

    13. SB

      I'm thinking of a friend of mine that, um, has been diagnosed with brain cancer, a brain tumor.

    14. TS

      Mm-hmm.

    15. SB

      And th- this is one of the most, you know, it's a, it's a woman in her 40s or 50s-

    16. TS

      Mm-hmm.

    17. SB

      ... trying to keep her anonymous as possible, um, who is just the most fit, athletic person that I kno- I know. Eats amazingly well, is literally known for exercise.

    18. TS

      Mm-hmm.

    19. SB

      ... um, and I'd go, "How? How is it possible that someone who I would probably say is fitter than I am, if you looked at their sort of metabolic health-

    20. TS

      Mm-hmm.

    21. SB

      ... has got a severe brain tumor?"

    22. TS

      Mm-hmm. Well, it, it, they can stay healthy for, uh, uh... And I'm not saying, uh, uh, everybody who has... And it depends on what kind of a tumor it is as well.

    23. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    24. TS

      Is it a glioblastoma, oligodendroglioma, you know, peanut... There's a lot of different kinds of tumors that you can-

    25. SB

      Well, no, no, that isn't... It's not growing necessarily, but it's big and it's in the brain-

    26. TS

      Mm-hmm.

    27. SB

      ... and they're gonna remove it-

    28. TS

      Mm-hmm.

    29. SB

      ... through a surgical operation.

    30. TS

      Well, if they can... What we always suggest for the brain cancer, if you do metabolic therapy up front, and I've had, uh, surgeons tell me this, uh, that you can shrink it down. Because one, one of the, um, one... It's angry, it's an angry thing, right? And you can see, uh, some slight invasion. If you can shrink that down so that it's more circumscribed, now the surgeon can look at it and go, "Oh, my God." We, we know, uh, many, many scientific publications. The more you can debulk, that's called the removal of the tumor, debulking, the longer the patient will survive. The evidence is massive to support that. But, you know, with a lot of these brain tumors, you don't get it all, and there's always some little piece that remains. And when you irradiate, you explode the ability of the cells to ferment energy, and it's very hard to kill them. But, but if you can extr- get the m- majority of it out and then transition the patient back into a metabolic, uh, state, keeping the pressure on those tumor cells, you can remain healthy, like Pablo. I mean, these, these guys

  27. 1:07:52 – 1:11:57

    Keto Plus Hyperbaric Oxygen Study

    1. TS

      can...

    2. SB

      And when you found i- in mice is that when ketogenic diet was combined with, uh, hyperbaric oxygen therapy, the average survival time was increased by roughly 80%?

    3. TS

      Yeah. E- even more sometimes now. But what... Okay, so why do we hyper- do hyperbaric oxygen, right? That's the question. What's going on with hyperbaric oxygen? Why is this, like, a good thing? Uh, it works best when the patient and the mouse is in nutritional ketosis. Okay, so look, we have a tumor. We irradiate that tumor. How does the radiation kill the tumor cells? It hits the oxygen, blows up, and it causes a reactive ROS, and it's like a, a, a stepping on a landmine. It blows the tumor up, right? So, um, cancer cells protect themselves. Even though they make a lot of ROS, they al- they're this close to death anyway. But they have a very powerful antioxidant system. And interestingly enough, that besides causing the dysregulated growth, the glucose and the glutamine also protect them to some extent from the ROS that they're making. Can you believe this?

    4. SB

      The ROS.

    5. TS

      R-O-S. R-O-S. Reactive oxygen species that are carcinogenic and mutagenic. So they're, they destroy our, our, our proteins, lipids, a- and nucleic acids. They're disruptive molecules. So radiation will cause a ROS in the microenvironment, R-O-S, that'll blow up and kill cells, normal and, and tumor cells. But w- but if you wanna selectively kill tumor cells, you... With ROS, not to cause your hair to fall out, your gums to bleed, and all this crazy stuff, you take the patient, you put him in nutritional ketosis, and you say he's l- got low GKI. Then you go into hyperbaric oxygen, which dissolves oxygen directly into your blood now. It's better than just breathing 100% oxygen because you can actually dissolve oxygen in the bloodstream. Then you're taking away the two fuels that protect the tumor, and you're giving it internal ROS, (laughs) which kills the tumor internally. Only to the tumor cell, not to your surrounding tissues. So you're killing, selectively killing tumor cells without collateral damage to your, to the rest of your body. As a matter of fact, the rest of your cells are getting super healthy because they're burning ketones and pure oxygen. Unbelievable.

    6. SB

      How do we measure if our, um-

    7. TS

      Can you believe this? I can't even believe I'm saying this stuff myself. (laughs)

    8. SB

      (laughs)

    9. TS

      You really gotta know the biochemistry, and you'd have to know the physiology of your own body. And you have to kn- understand evolutionary biology.

    10. SB

      Most people just aren't that intelligent, including me.

    11. TS

      It's not intelligence.

    12. SB

      Yeah.

    13. TS

      It has nothing, uh-

    14. SB

      Most people, most people kind of want things, s- sort of simple principles that they can live by and implement

    15. NA

      Yeah.

    16. TS

      And, and also quick and easy.

    17. SB

      Yeah, of course.

    18. TS

      Okay, they don't wanna do what I'm talking about it, 'cause it might be... Or the other thing, um, uh, let me tell you one thing and remember it. If you do metabolic therapy, success rides heavily on your shoulders. You're not sitting there like some pawn with a mannequin that some guy's poisoning and irradiating you. To, to make metabolic therapy work, you are the one doing the GKI. You're the one int- it's your soul. It's your... You're responsible for your existence on this planet. You're gonna put your, uh, uh, your precious soul in the hands of someone who has le- uh, less of a knowledge about the, the problem than, than you might?

    19. SB

      (paper rustling) As an entrepreneur, I'm always looking for ways to connect and to create, and that's why I decided to launch the conversation cards. I turned to Shopify, who also sponsors this podcast, and Shopify made it so easy to set up an online store and reach all of you, no matter where you are in the world. I remember the challenges we faced when we first launched the Diary of a CEO conversation cards, managing inventory, ensuring a seamless checkout process, and reaching our audience. Shopify stepped in and made everything so straightforward and efficient. It was like having an entire team of experts by our side, allowing us to focus on creating content and connecting with you. What I love about Shopify is, no matter how big you intend to grow your business, they give you everything you need to take control and take your business to the next level. And to say thank you for listening to this podcast, we're giving you a trial, which is just $1 a month, and you can sign up by going to shopify.com/bartlett. The link is in the description below. (paper rustling) Could

  28. 1:11:57 – 1:12:28

    Can You Have A Pre-Disposition To Cancer?

    1. SB

      you be predisposed genetically to cancer?

    2. TS

      Yeah, that's with those germline mutations, but you can ma- manage that.

    3. SB

      'Cause people think, you know, "My, my grandmother had breast cancer. My mother had breast cancer, so-"

    4. TS

      Yeah.

    5. SB

      ... you know?

    6. TS

      They live in a common environment too. Uh, it's not like you're, uh... Like, you know, to prove that, you, you, you and all the siblings would have to be raised in a different, uh, en- uh, environment, different countries, different lifestyles, and then see if you all got cancer at the same time under all these different conditions that's definitely genetic. That's like Huntington's disease, Tay-Sachs disease, or these kinds of things, where they'll manifest regardless of the environment.

    7. SB

      So are you saying to me

  29. 1:12:28 – 1:13:16

    Should I Restrict What I Eat, To Stave Off Cancer?

    1. SB

      that I should, as a 32-year-old man that's cancer-free, um, God willing, I think, touch wood, um, I should...... calorie restrict myself to keep my mitochondria healthy-

    2. TS

      Mm.

    3. SB

      ... and my me- metabolism healthy now, I should be in a, in a sort of calorie-restricting state?

    4. TS

      You know, I, I say it's good to visit the state, uh, our Paleolithic ancestors had no choice. There wasn't a donut shop on every corner. There wasn't pizzas. There were- there weren't the kinds of highly processed carbohydrate foods available to them.

    5. SB

      So should I be fasting? Should I be doing keto?

    6. TS

      I, you know, I don't wanna tell you what you should or should not do. I'm not a physician here. I'm a scientist. I study what causes these things and I study how to manage them. You have to read what I'm saying, and you have to come to your own decisions about how you wanna conduct your life.

    7. SB

      What is your view-

    8. TS

      I've given you information.

  30. 1:13:16 – 1:13:58

    What's Your View On Fasting?

    1. TS

    2. SB

      What's your view on fasting?

    3. TS

      Fasting is a powerful, uh, way to get your body into nutritional ketosis. But it ain't easy. Try doing it. Try, you try doing it and see how, how easy it ... It ain't easy, right? Uh, but that's why we developed this procedure where if you go, um, rather than going cold turkey, uh, and say, "Oh, today I'm gonna have a big ... I'm gonna eat as much as I can!" And then tomorrow, okay, you can go the more, I can ... It's the second, third day is when you start to really know what the hell is going on. Believe me. I've tried it, it's, it ain't easy. That's why we developed a, a zero carb diet for 14 days, 10 to 14 days. Just zero c... You can eat meat, fish, chicken, whatever you want, but just don't eat any bread, pasta, this kind of thing.

    4. SB

      On keto,

  31. 1:13:58 – 1:17:10

    How Do I Get Into The Keto State?

    1. SB

      um, how do we get into that sort of ketosis state that people often talk about?

    2. TS

      Measure your glucose ketone index. ...

    3. SB

      How do I do that?

    4. TS

      With the bl- with the, the, the Keto Mojo Meter, you can buy it from Amazon.

    5. SB

      Okay.

    6. TS

      Okay? You can buy ... Now, don't forget, they got a Free Libre meter now for the blood. They're working on ketone blood meters, but it's not there yet. Right now, the Keto Mo- Mojo or some other keto meters where you could take a, prick your finger like a diabetic, you take a glucose strip and you put it on the blood and you put it into the machine, it tells you what your glucose is. Squeeze your finger a little bit more, take the ketone strip, touch it to the blood, put it in the meter, it gives you the ketone value. Push the button, GKI comes right up.

    7. SB

      Okay.

    8. TS

      Okay? Very simple. Everybody can buy it from, from Amazon, get the meter, buy the consumables, uh, and then they can test it. This is what Pablo, this is what all the, the, the cancer patients, the ones who really wanna get into metabolic ketosis.

    9. SB

      I think I've tried keto before and I say "think" because I didn't measure-

    10. TS

      Yeah.

    11. SB

      ... my, my ketone levels-

    12. TS

      Yeah.

    13. SB

      ... so I was assuming I did.

    14. TS

      Y- yeah. No, i- it's really, people say, "Well, I haven't eaten and I, I'm in ketose." "How do you know?" "Well, I blew into this thing and a bulb came out. I peed on a strip, it looked like it was ketosis." They are indirect measures. The, the most accurate is the blood measure. So, um-

    15. SB

      It's hard to stay in that state for most people, right? This is one of the things I hear.

Episode duration: 1:37:33

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