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The Diary of a CEOThe Diary of a CEO

How modern shoes reshape your feet, pain, and longevity

How childhood footwear quietly deforms toes and weakens the whole foot; bunions, plantar pain, and step counts then ripple up through hips and posture.

Dr. Courtney ConleyguestSteven Bartletthost
May 29, 20251h 30mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 2:20

    Intro

    1. CC

      I want people to start thinking about their feet, because the implications it will have for longevity is massive. But there is plenty of things we can do for foot strength and performance. And you can actually do this at home, and I'm gonna educate you here. There's a lot we could talk about here.

    2. SB

      That didn't sound like a compliment.

    3. CC

      (laughs)

    4. SB

      Dr. Courtney Conley is a world-renowned foot doctor...

    5. CC

      Who's making people rethink everything they know about their feet.

    6. SB

      And the shocking truth about their shoes.

    7. CC

      One in three people will experience foot pain, and it really starts to deter your physical health, your emotional health, your mental health, because you can't do most things. And I know this because as a ballet dancer and then a triathlete, I had all of the diagnoses, bunions, neuromas, heel pain, and not being able to walk and not being able to move, you can go to some pretty dark places. But when you look at the statistics, 5,000 steps a day can reduce the risk of having symptoms of depression and also reduce your risk of all cause mortality by 15%.

    8. SB

      Wow.

    9. CC

      Here's a bigger wow. 9,800 steps can reduce the risks of dementia, so it's the most underutilized, easily accessible activity that most of us are not doing.

    10. SB

      What about footwear choices?

    11. CC

      Footwear has such a big implication on our function. For example, around 70% of children are wearing shoes that are too narrow.

    12. SB

      I've got a range of footwear here that most people wear. So what do you think of these shoes?

    13. CC

      You shorten the muscles in the back of the leg.

    14. SB

      What is the issue with wearing these?

    15. CC

      So, they change the structure of the foot.

    16. SB

      What about this one here?

    17. CC

      You're gonna make me start sweating.

    18. SB

      So let's talk about some good shoes then.

    19. CC

      Okay, so these are the things you want to look for in a functional shoe. First-

    20. SB

      This has always blown my mind a little bit. 53% of you that listen to this show regularly haven't yet subscribed to the show. So could I ask you for a favor before we start? If you like the show and you like what we do here and you want to support us, the free simple way that you can do just that is by hitting the subscribe button. And my commitment to you is if you do that, then I'll do everything in my power, me and my team, to make sure that this show is better for you every single week. We'll listen to your feedback, we'll find the guests that you want me to speak to, and we'll continue to do what we do. Thank you so much. (instrumental music plays) What are we getting wrong? And at what stage in our life do we get it wrong? It feels like you have a little bit of beef with shoes.

    21. CC

      A little bit.

    22. SB

      A little bit of beef. I've got a, a range

  2. 2:20 – 5:54

    Why Care About Feet

    1. SB

      of different shoes here, but what is it that we're being sold or told that is fundamentally not aligned with what it is to be a healthy, strong, happy human?

    2. CC

      I always say that if we started with our children and put them in the right footwear, I'd be out of a job. Because that's when it starts. That's when the foot starts developing, and that's when we start to build strength and, you know, structure to the foot. And from a very young age, we start interfering with what goes on in the foot. And when you think about all of the things that the foot can do, it's why I'm obsessed with it. I mean, there's bones and ligaments, and the foot should be designed, it's designed to move.

    3. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    4. CC

      The arch recoils, so it should lengthen, and then it should contract. There's four layers of muscles in here. So when we look at the function of the foot, we have to respect that, and I think footwear can deter the function of the foot.

    5. SB

      So is the, is the biggest risk, just make sure I'm super clear, that I will fall when I'm older? Is that the key risk?

    6. CC

      I mean, I don't... I think that is one of the sequela of what's going to happen if we just don't start paying attention.

    7. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    8. CC

      But when you look at function as a whole, things like walking, one in three people, and probably over the ages of 45, will experience foot pain.

    9. SB

      Yeah.

    10. CC

      So other than low back pain, there's really no other diagnosis that you'll see those types of numbers. And here's the, here's the issue with foot pain. You can't do much. You can't go for a walk. You can't go for a hike. You can't do most things. You can't walk to the mailbox when you have severe foot pain. So it really starts to deter your physical health, your emotional health, your mental health. So i- it's one of those things I'm extremely passionate about, because it's not just about pain. It's about what happens when you can't walk and you can't use your foot.

    11. SB

      And is it, is the foot connected to the ankle, which is connected to the-

    12. CC

      Correct.

    13. SB

      ... calf, which is connected to the back? Is there a sort of a whole body, um, holistic issue here? Is it all interconnected?

    14. CC

      Yes, 100%. Especially when I see, you know, patients that have bilateral symptoms at their feet, so that would be both sides.

    15. SB

      Okay.

    16. CC

      So for example, if I see someone with bilateral bunions-

    17. SB

      Which is the-

    18. CC

      ... okay, which would be the bump on the inside of the big toe.

    19. SB

      Yeah.

    20. CC

      Okay? You have to ask yourself, where is this abnormal load coming from?

    21. SB

      Let me just check my bunions.

    22. CC

      (laughs)

    23. SB

      Yeah, check. Check. Yeah.

    24. CC

      Right? Where is it coming from? Is it, you know, is it a, something that has to do with the pelvis, right? Because when I'm standing, if I tilt my pelvis forward, I should feel my arches drop.

    25. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    26. CC

      So there's a direct correlation between what's happening at your hips and your pelvis and what happens at your foot. And when I were to tuck my pelvis, you should feel the arches lift. So when we start to see things happen at the foot, it's a window. It's a window to what's going on, not only at the foot, but everywhere else in the kinetic chain.

  3. 5:54 – 7:36

    The Most Common Foot Injuries

    1. CC

    2. SB

      When patients come to you, what kind of symptoms do they have that are connected to the foot?

    3. CC

      Bunions, neuromas, hammertoes.

    4. SB

      What's a neuroma and a hammertoe?

    5. CC

      So a neuroma is...... a nerve irritation-

    6. SB

      Yeah.

    7. CC

      ... in between the toes. So the mo- the most common you will hear of is a Morton's neuroma. And that's typically in between the third and fourth toes.

    8. SB

      Okay.

    9. CC

      And it can be very painful. Remember we talked about when you go to push off when you're walking?

    10. SB

      Yeah.

    11. CC

      The wider and the stronger the forefoot is, the more stable it is. So if I have a foot that doesn't have splay or that looks like this and you're trying to push off of it, you can irritate the nerves within the forefoot.

    12. SB

      Okay.

    13. CC

      And you can develop these nerve symptoms at the forefoot. Very painful.

    14. SB

      What are the oth- the other types of sort of injuries or symptoms that people come to you with that you then route back to the feet?

    15. CC

      Hammertoes.

    16. SB

      Hammertoes, which is?

    17. CC

      The clawing of the toes.

    18. SB

      Oh, okay. Yeah.

    19. CC

      Right. And this is what's cool about the foot because it's the only place in the body where you can see aberrant loads.

    20. SB

      What, what does that mean?

    21. CC

      Abnormal load, dysfunction. Because you can't see it at the knee, you can't see it at the hip unless you were to take imaging, where you'd start to see structural change.

    22. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    23. CC

      But you can see it at the foot. So you should be asking yourself, "Man, why am I developing hammertoes? And maybe I should pay attention to that." Because bunions and hammertoes also will increase your risk of falling and also decrease balance. That's a problem.

  4. 7:36 – 11:36

    What People Get Wrong About Foot Pain

    1. CC

    2. SB

      I had, um, plantar fasciitis, which meant that I struggled to walk for a couple of weeks, uh, a few years ago when I was training for a football match. And that's really what s- started me on my journey of understanding the foot and trying to understand how to strengthen it-

    3. CC

      Yeah.

    4. SB

      ... so that I could be more active, 'cause if you've never experienced plantar fasciitis, which I'm sure some of my listeners have, it really is an awful, awful thing. What are, what's the, the rest of the list of those kinds of injuries that people can get from having a weak foot? Is there anything else that we haven't covered?

    5. CC

      Well, plantar fasciopathy is probably the most common. That's your heel pain.

    6. SB

      Okay.

    7. CC

      And I do think that that is a diagnosis that we need to look at a little bit differently. Achilles tendinopathy, also very, very common. Um, other tendon diagnoses, posterior tibialis tendon. So that's...

    8. SB

      Okay.

    9. CC

      ... the tendon that runs along the inside of the foot.

    10. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    11. CC

      And it's one of the biggest stabilizers of the medial column of the foot. It's a powerhouse. That and the soleus, which is your calf, lower, the calf muscle, powerhouses of the lower leg. And all of these tissues can be strengthened and produce power. And we need to start looking at the foot just like we look at every other part of the body.

    12. SB

      So what do you do for a living, and who are you?

    13. CC

      (laughs) Um, well, I'm a chiropractor by nature. Um, I went to chiropractic school. Um, you know, I knew that I wanted to get into some type of medicine that was proactive, you know, not reactive. I didn't quite have interest in surgeries or pharmaceuticals. Movement has always been a very big part of my life. And so I knew I needed to stay in that, in that arena.

    14. SB

      So what did you do?

    15. CC

      When I was younger, I was a dancer. I was a ballet dancer, and then I shifted gears into being a runner and then a triathlete. And I didn't know at the time why movement was a necessity for me. You know, I certainly wasn't thinking, "Oh, you know, I need to do this because of longevity or because I'm gonna have better VO2 max." You know, and now in hindsight, when I think about it, it was a means of survival.

    16. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    17. CC

      Uh, movement was survival for me. And in my teens and into my 20s, you know, I had some personal demons that I fought. And the one thing that was consistent that I felt I could control was making sure that I stayed moving. And the problem is, is when you have foot pain, you can't do that. And because movement was a, was a lifeline for me, it was a mode of survival, there were days where, you know, I was a dancer, I had all of the diagnoses we just talked about, bunions, neuromas, heel pain, and when you tag on day after day of not being able to walk and not being able to move, you can go to some pretty dark places.

    18. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    19. CC

      And so I just, it was a mission of mine to figure this out and figure out how I can personally be able to continue to move, but then also be able to hopefully help other people.

    20. SB

      It got tough for you, didn't it? I can see it in your face.

    21. CC

      (laughs) Yes.

    22. SB

      Because for this to matter this much to you, then it's, it's personal, to say the least.

    23. CC

      It changed my life when your... You know, I think whenever we have a passion, there's always this quest personally behind it. And so I saw what it did for me, and then over the past 20 years, being able to see what it has done for my patients is why I'm even more hard-pressed to get this information out there.

  5. 11:36 – 19:08

    The Link Between Walking, Longevity, and Depression

    1. CC

    2. SB

      Walking.

    3. CC

      Yes.

    4. SB

      We don't do much of that these days. It seems to have gone out of fashion with all the Ubers and the other ways to, to get around and all the sedentary, uh, behavior that we do living in of- uh, living and working in offices. What, what should we know about walking and how important it is? Because I'll be honest, I don't walk that much.

    5. CC

      Yes, it's, um... I always say it's the most underrated, underutilized, easily accessible activity that most of us are not doing.If you think about, if you look at the research on average step count that most people globally are taking, it's about 45 to 4,900.

    6. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    7. CC

      Okay?

    8. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    9. CC

      Which means that there's a lot of us that are taking less than that. So when I'm working with my patients, we always look at baseline numbers. What's your baseline? So for example, if you had a person who was walking 2,500 steps a day, I mean some of us would be like, "Wow, that's not a lot."

    10. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    11. CC

      But for a lot of us, it is. If you were to walk an additional 500 steps in a day, your baseline's 2,500, you can reduce your risk of cardiovascular mortality by 7%.

    12. SB

      Wow.

    13. CC

      Here's a bigger wow. If you have a thousand step increase, you can reduce your risk of all cause mortality by 15%.

    14. SB

      Dying of anything?

    15. CC

      All cause mortality. 15%, that's, that's a big number for a thousand steps.

    16. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    17. CC

      So I, I have a story for you. This is a patient of mine and it just, you know, w- warms my heart to talk about him because when I saw him, he was two years into a diagnosis of heel pain, 27 years old. So he had, um, gone to see a bunch of people and the last doctor that he had seen told him to limit his step count to 2,500 steps a day.

    18. SB

      Why?

    19. CC

      (laughs) To rest. To rest the foot. Now, this is chronic pain now. We're not talking acute heel pain. We are two years into this song and dance and he's being told at 27 years old to take 2,500 steps a day. So he comes into my office, we're talking about all of this, and he's also a quadruplet. So it was one of the first quadruplets I think I've ever treated. So he has, um, you know, which why I think pain is so difficult, it's so complicated because now you have this 27-year-old who's seeing his siblings who are at 27, like enjoy their life and doing all of these things, and he's being told he can take 2,500 steps a day. So he's now living in his father's basement and he's afraid to go above 2,500 steps and he used to tell me, he's like, "I cry a lot. I'm depressed." And wouldn't you be if...

    20. SB

      Yeah.

    21. CC

      So there wasn't any magic exercise that I was going to give him two years into this. There wasn't any magic orthotic or magic shoe. He had done all of that. Shame on me if I would have done the same thing.

    22. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    23. CC

      So we had a conversation and I knew I needed to get him outside and I needed to get him walking. That was my goal. Forget about the heel pain. We didn't even focus, we didn't even talk about the heel pain. I knew I needed to get him outside and start loading his foot. Two years, this foot by the way, when you're walking four to six times your body weight, it can handle four to six times your body weight when you're walking, but you don't load it appropriately and muscles atrophy. So I told him, we had a long, long conversation and I said, "We're going to slowly start to introduce steps." And if you think about this, if we were to say add 1,000 steps a day, to some people that might not sound like a lot, but to someone who's taking 2,500 steps, that's almost 50% of what they're doing.

    24. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    25. CC

      So we introduced the concept of a micro walk, which is a five minute walk. So a five minute walk is about 500 steps.

    26. SB

      Okay.

    27. CC

      A 10 minute walk is about 1,000, about 1,000 steps.

    28. SB

      Okay.

    29. CC

      Right? So that makes it, like, a little more digestible, right? So you're talking to him, you're like, "Listen, all I need is five minutes." And so we started five minute walks and for the first couple weeks it was, you know, there were good days, there were bad days, and there still are, but we were starting to build his confidence and movement. We were starting to get him comfortable on his foot again. And it was, you know, it was one of those cases where I just, like, I, I really enjoyed working with him and watching what had happened because if you look at step counts, I knew what number I was trying to get to because if you look at, um, depression for example, 5,000 steps a day can reduce the risk of having symptoms of depression.

    30. SB

      Mm-hmm.

  6. 19:08 – 25:42

    What Shoes Should I Wear to Help My Foot Strength?

    1. SB

      that we-

    2. CC

      Yes.

    3. SB

      ... realize that our feet and ankles were, were there (laughs) .

    4. CC

      Yes.

    5. SB

      And that's certainly been the case in my life. It wasn't until I got plantar fasciitis that I was like, "Oh, my God, I should've been doing something about this sooner." And then as I told you before we started recording, I've currently got a high ankle sprain-

    6. CC

      Mm-hmm.

    7. SB

      ... so I pulled some ligaments in my, the top of my ankle training for this game called Soccer Aid. So I'm now going through the whole process once again of, like, figuring out what I did wrong and what, where, what I should've been doing as a preventative measure-

    8. CC

      Yeah.

    9. SB

      ... to try and strengthen my feet. One of the things that I think most of us get wrong is our footwear choices.

    10. CC

      Yes.

    11. SB

      And I've got a range of footwear on this table in front of me here. These are the types of shoes that most people wear. Um, from a very young age, I think we all wear shoes like this.

    12. CC

      Yes.

    13. SB

      So, sort of narrow shoes with a big heel, if anyone can't see our conversation at the moment. So, like, the, the typical trainer.

    14. CC

      Mm-hmm.

    15. SB

      What is, what is the issue with wearing these from an early age?

    16. CC

      When I was doing research to have this discussion with you, it was fascinating to me when you look at the statistics of, especially with, um, children, with girls, s- around 70% are wearing shoes that are too narrow.

    17. SB

      Too narrow, the end part?

    18. CC

      Yes.

    19. SB

      Yeah.

    20. CC

      Remember we talked about the widest part of the foot should be the toes.

    21. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    22. CC

      So when you look at a shoe like that, that is not the widest part. It's tapered. See how the toe box looks like it's tapered?

    23. SB

      Yeah, it's point, like, pointed.

    24. CC

      Correct.

    25. SB

      Yeah.

    26. CC

      So when you put your foot in there, it's doing this.

    27. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    28. CC

      It changes the structure of the foot. It's like the lowest hanging fruit for me, is just wear a shoe that fits your foot, because when it's in that position, it changes the structure. If I walked around with a, my arm in a sling for 10 years, would my bicep get weak?

    29. SB

      Yeah. Your mo- you'd lose your mobility as well, right?

    30. CC

      Correct. If you don't use it, you're gonna lose it. And so that's why I think footwear has such a big implication on our function. Men's dress shoes.

  7. 25:42 – 27:56

    Our Feet vs. Tribe Feet

    1. CC

    2. SB

      I was just thinking about my foot as you're talking, and I'm pretty sure, like my... I'm pretty sure that my pinky toe looks...

    3. CC

      (laughs)

    4. SB

      I'm not going to be able to sell pictures on OnlyFans of my feet-

    5. CC

      (laughs)

    6. SB

      ... because, um, my pinky toe is kind of like crumpled in.

    7. CC

      It like curls under, right?

    8. SB

      Yeah, it's like curled under.

    9. CC

      Yeah. Right. It kind of looks like a shoe, like you had a shoe there, like...

    10. SB

      Excuse me.

    11. CC

      (laughs)

    12. SB

      Um, no. No, but you're right. It is. It is like that. Um, it's kind of like been pushed, pushed in and underneath, and I guess that's not natural.

    13. CC

      No, it is not.

    14. SB

      How does a natural foot look? Like have you been to see a tribe who, who don't wear these cushioned shoes? Have you seen what like a uncushioned foot looks like?

    15. CC

      I'm obsessed. I watch people's feet all the time. I was just in Belize with my mother and daughter for spring break.

    16. SB

      Slightly creepy.

    17. CC

      (laughs)

    18. SB

      Sorry.

    19. CC

      It is, isn't it? (laughs)

    20. SB

      (laughs) And you're looking at people's feet on holiday?

    21. CC

      Oh, I'm always looking at people's feet, um, because it tells a story. It's like someone's gait. You know, watching someone walk tells a story. You can tell if they just got fired or if they just got promoted, you know? But when you look at someone's foot... I was in Belize and, with my mom and daughter, and, um, there were these two guys building a house, you know, a little bit off the beach, barefoot. And I'm looking at their foot and I'm going, "Wow." It was wide. It looked thick. It looked flat. And, you know, I think in our society, if you will, when we think of a flat foot, we think, "Oh, this is bad news. We better go get an orthotic."

    22. SB

      An orthotic is a?

    23. CC

      Um, a device that you put underneath the foot to help, um, modify loads.

    24. SB

      Ah. What do they call those in the UK? Um, insoles.

    25. CC

      Like an insole.

    26. SB

      Okay.

    27. CC

      Yes. And so I'm watching these guys build this house and they're like coming up on their toes and they have all this, you know, toe range of motion and all this strength and power to their foot. And I'm like, "That's, that's what our foot was designed to do, is to be strong, to support..." It's like building a house on sand.

    28. SB

      Yeah.

    29. CC

      You have to have a foundation that you can build upon. And it was really cool to see. It

  8. 27:56 – 30:45

    Insoles Help Initially but Not Long Term

    1. CC

      really was.

    2. SB

      When I had that pain in my foot, which they told me was plantar fasciitis, they recommended that I go to some foot doctor person, and this foot doctor person measured me up for insoles.

    3. CC

      Yes.

    4. SB

      And I put the insoles in, and then I took the insoles out, and instead of that, I just wore different shoes.

    5. CC

      Yeah.

    6. SB

      A lot of people's first sort of diagnosis and the, the thing that they're told to do whenever they have foot pain or back pain or whatever is go get some insoles. Is this what you think we should be doing? Because it's really, really common.

    7. CC

      It is.

    8. SB

      It's like... It seems to be the, the... Like in medicine, they throw pills at you if you have certain symptoms. It seems to be the first thing that we do when someone has a foot problem or an ankle problem.

    9. CC

      First line of intervention is... That's why I, I... you want to change how we're viewing the foot. It's either, "If your foot hurts, here's an orthosis."

    10. SB

      Which is a?

    11. CC

      A foot orthotic, an insert.

    12. SB

      Yeah.

    13. CC

      Or, "If it hurts worse, get surgery." If you look at the research on plantar fasciitis, okay, so "itis" being acute, it will tell you that putting an orthosis or something to modify the load underneath the foot can be beneficial initially because you want to offload something that hurts.

    14. SB

      Yeah.

    15. CC

      But if you don't use it, you're gonna lose it. So what they're not... The part of the conversation that's being missed is the "and" conversation. It's, "Wear this insert and strengthen your foot," because the goal should be to have an exit strategy for the insert and get your foot back on the ground. Because I have patients, Steven, they will come in with 20 pairs of orthotics, 20 pairs of inserts. They've tried this one. They've tried that one. They've tried different shoes, higher heel to toe drops, more cushion. And I'm sitting there going, "We're missing the boat here. Let's have the and conversation." One of the muscles that is a good predictor of having heel pain, okay, is it runs parallel to the plantar fascia. So it's flexor digitorum brevis. It basically takes the four toes and presses them down.

    16. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    17. CC

      There's ways you can assess for this.So we'll look at their toe strength, and then it almost always correlates with the side that has the heel pain on because it, it shouldn't be one of those conversations where you're like, "Man, I wonder where this came from?" No. Your foot is weak. Your foot is weak, there's a lot of load going through it, and the structures are, you know, getting beat up.

  9. 30:45 – 31:24

    1 in 3 People Will Develop Foot Pain

    1. CC

    2. SB

      There's something Daniel Lieberman said to me which I've never forgotten. He said, "If you took a child and you put them in two-inch thick gloves from the day that they were born-"

    3. CC

      Yeah.

    4. SB

      "... and then you took those gloves off at 30 years old, can you imagine how deformed their hands would be?"

    5. CC

      Right.

    6. SB

      And that's like very much the way that we live our lives.

    7. CC

      Yes.

    8. SB

      We spend pretty much all day wearing these big cushioned shoes that sometimes have these heels on, so it's no wonder that so many people are getting foot problems, ankle problems, back pain.

    9. CC

      Yeah.

    10. SB

      So-

    11. CC

      One in three people.

    12. SB

      One in three people.

    13. CC

      Foot pain. I mean, it is, it really is a statistic that we need to be paying attention to.

  10. 31:24 – 33:51

    Pain in the Heel (Plantar Fasciitis)

    1. CC

    2. SB

      We use this word plantar fasciitis, but we didn't explain what it is and what the symptoms of it are. Is it essentially a pain in the, the heel of your foot?

    3. CC

      Pain in the heel, yes. And they've played around with, you know, the terminology, it being plantar fasciitis, so more of an acute issue, versus plantar fasciopathy, because oftentimes these cases will turn into, you know, having heel pain for very long periods of time.

    4. SB

      Yeah.

    5. CC

      So then you have to treat it differently. You don't treat something that's acute the same as you would treat something that's chronic. And so you have to look at, "How can I build the resiliency to the foot?"

    6. SB

      How did it happen?

    7. CC

      How did all of this happen?

    8. SB

      How did plantar fasciitis happen? Like, how did I get it?

    9. CC

      (laughs)

    10. SB

      So w- I'll tell you what I was doing. I was living my life as normal.

    11. CC

      Yeah.

    12. SB

      And then I started training to play for this-

    13. CC

      Yes.

    14. SB

      ... soccer game, and I started training several, may- maybe twice a week. And then maybe by week four or five or six, I get this horrific ongoing pain which lasted throughout the entire day-

    15. CC

      Yeah.

    16. SB

      ... where I couldn't walk easily. It was especially bad in the mornings, and, uh, yeah, I thought I'd like broken something or ripped something in my foot. And when they told me that it was plantar fasciitis, I'd never had that term before, but understanding what I did there, how did I get it?

    17. CC

      When... I see, I hear very similar stories with that diagnosis. There's alwa- there always seems to be some impetus of, "I s- I added load too fast too soon."

    18. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    19. CC

      "I went on a longer hike. I..." This is one of my favorites. Um, "I went barefoot during COVID around my house," and everybody wanted to blame the fact that (laughs) , you know, don't ever go barefoot, and I was like, "Mm, maybe it's just 'cause your foot was weak and you weren't ready to handle these loads." You add loads too fast too soon, and the foot just says, "You know what? You weren't ready to give me this amount of load this quickly."

    20. SB

      Okay.

    21. CC

      And that's, you know, when you asked me earlier about, um, why we need to pay attention to our foot strength, is it just because, you know, we're gonna, we want to prevent falls when we're 70? This is the why. 'Cause we want to have healthy feet, strong feet so you can say, "Hey, I want to go play a soccer game and I don't want to worry about having plantar fasciitis

  11. 33:51 – 35:21

    Bigger Problems from Foot Issues

    1. CC

      in my 30s."

    2. SB

      Mm-hmm. Or, I mean, now with this, this ankle sprain that I have-

    3. CC

      Yes.

    4. SB

      ... pulling my ligaments, which takes you out of activity for so long, which is-

    5. CC

      Yes.

    6. SB

      ... horrific. That's like a big part of this, which is if you get an injury-

    7. CC

      Yeah.

    8. SB

      ... if you get a bad injury, if you get like an Achilles tendon issue or the, you tear a ligament like I have, or even plantar fasciitis, w- the inactivity that stems from that causes a bunch of downstream-

    9. CC

      Yes.

    10. SB

      ... issues. So I'm, my muscles are gonna atrophy. I'm gonna lose muscle over th- this next couple of weeks in my lower half. I'm gonna get probably a little bit lopsided because the injury's on my right side, so now my left side's having more of the burden. Uh, my, my lower legs, my upper legs, my lower back is probably susceptible now to some kind of injury as well. And it feels like, you know, this down, downward spiral-

    11. CC

      Yeah.

    12. SB

      ... of injury just because I didn't strengthen my foot. What do you think of these shoes? These are women's heels, but listen, anyone can wear them. It's 2025.

    13. CC

      (laughs)

    14. SB

      Um, what do you think of these shoes?

    15. CC

      Well, it doesn't look like a foot. Your foot in that position is not the position it, it's supposed to be in. Now, with that being said, there is a time and a place. You know, I don't think I'm going to win the battle of, you know, you need to wear, you know, functional footwear 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Time in those shoes should be limited. Just like with, you know, other things, it's

  12. 35:21 – 37:42

    Problems with Wearing Heels

    1. CC

      moderation.

    2. SB

      Do you see a lot of women getting injuries because they spend too long wearing heels?

    3. CC

      I don't know if acute injury, but cr- but a weakening of tissue, yes. Because, you know, I live in Colorado now, so I don't have that, uh, there's not too many women in Colorado that are wearing heels. However, when I go to New York City, it's a different conversation, different environment.

    4. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    5. CC

      So, you know, I have to say, I have to use the... That is not the position that you want to keep your foot in. It's changing the structure of your tissues, changing the pressures in the foot. Not to mention, that, those are... I don't, I don't care what anybody says, that's not comfortable to walk around in. People will be like, "Oh, I'm really comfortable in heels." I'm like, "Are you really though?"

    6. SB

      The lengths we go to to look good though, right?

    7. CC

      That's right.

    8. SB

      Okay, so let's talk about some good shoes then.

    9. CC

      Okay.

    10. SB

      I've got two pairs of shoes here.

    11. CC

      Okay.

    12. SB

      One of them is Vivobarefoot-

    13. CC

      Yes.

    14. SB

      ... who are actually a sponsor of mine.Ever since I saw it started talking about feet. Um, and then I don't know this brand. What is this brand?

    15. CC

      That is Ultra Running. So let's talk about, um, the things you want to look for in a functional shoe. My non-negotiable is the wide toe box. The toes have to be able to splay. When you think of all the diagnoses that we talked about, bunions, neuromas, hammertoes, when the forefoot can splay, the foot's going to function better. So that's number one. Number two is having the heel and the toe in the same plane. And number three is having a shoe that is thin and flexible. When you wear this type of footwear, I call this a workhorse shoe, because there is more loads going through all of your tissues, through your bones, through your ligaments, through your tendons, through your muscles. So your foot gets stronger when you wear this type of footwear. There's research on that.

    16. SB

      Hmm.

    17. CC

      Now, you have to earn your right. This is the plantar fasciopathy conversation. You can't go from wearing a, um, aggressive, k- high-cushion

  13. 37:42 – 39:41

    Characteristics of Good Shoes

    1. CC

      shoe-

    2. SB

      Like this one here.

    3. CC

      ... with an, yes, with an insert, for example, and say, "Oh, this stuff makes sense. I'm going to go take that off and I'm going to go wear this 24 hours a day." You won't like me.

    4. SB

      Why?

    5. CC

      Because you'll say, "Hey, my heel's hurting." Because you haven't done the work. It's, "Hey, let's do these foot exercises. Let's wear this for 10 minutes a day." And then people are like, "Wow, that does feel better." And then it's a transition into wearing this more often. Now, when you have patients that have had a, a very weak foot, or clients that have had a very weak foot with different diagnoses, this is a hard, you know, shoe to walk around in for extended periods of time. So that's when we'll talk about footwear that still puts the foot in a wide position, wide toe box. I love this shoe. And I also like the mesh upper, because you can, the toes can expand in here. I still have zero drop, right? Where the heel and the toe sit in the same plane. But you'll notice the difference between the two shoes is the amount of stack height or the amount of cushion. There's more stuff.

    6. SB

      Yeah. So on this, on this shoe, the, it does look like the, you call it a plane, looks level.

    7. CC

      Yes.

    8. SB

      Okay. And it's got a good toe box.

    9. CC

      Yes.

    10. SB

      You can see from this side that the toe box is wide so you can splay. But it is elevated.

    11. CC

      It's elevated off the ground.

    12. SB

      Yeah.

    13. CC

      But the heel and toe are in the same plane.

    14. SB

      Okay, fine. But it can, it's, it's still elevated though.

    15. CC

      Yes.

    16. SB

      They're still like quite thick.

    17. CC

      Yes.

    18. SB

      That's not too much of a problem because it's still flat.

    19. CC

      It depends on what your goals are.

    20. SB

      For running.

    21. CC

      That is, that is a, I think a great shoe to run on, to run with, right?

    22. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    23. CC

      If you're running on concrete, if you're running on asphalt, you want a little something underneath the foot.

  14. 39:41 – 43:46

    Super-Cushioned Running Shoes: Good or Bad?

    1. CC

    2. SB

      What about the-

    3. CC

      (laughs)

    4. SB

      ... Nike Alphaflys, which is why-

    5. CC

      You're gonna make me start sweating.

    6. SB

      Really?

    7. CC

      Uh, um-

    8. SB

      This is my current running shoe, and I bought it because it looks great.

    9. CC

      Yes. I mean, you know, it, it, it's, it-

    10. SB

      I have torn the (laughs) ligaments in my, in my ankle.

    11. CC

      (laughs)

    12. SB

      But (laughs) , but I look good.

    13. CC

      Here's the super shoe, right? So here's this shoe, right? And here's your super shoe over here.

    14. SB

      Yeah.

    15. CC

      Okay? When you look at that shoe, there's certain characteristics to that shoe that you definitely do not see in this shoe, one of them being the toe spring. So see how it kind of lips on the front of the shoe?

    16. SB

      Yeah.

    17. CC

      Okay?

    18. SB

      This part here, yeah.

    19. CC

      Yes. So if I had that shoe on this table and I went like this to the front of the shoe, it would literally rocker for me.

    20. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    21. CC

      So it facilitates the rocker of the foot. Sounds great. You put that on, you're like, "Man, this is great. I can fly." If you don't use it, you're gonna lose it. So there is research that shows when you put your foot in a position with toe spring, you will weaken the intrinsic muscles of the foot. So, I'm not saying don't have race day and wear that shoe, right? You get, the research will tell you 2% to 4% running economy. People run faster because the shoe has the technology to facilitate gait. But if you train in that all the time and you never let your foot get stronger, it's just a matter of time you're going to say, "My hamstring, my foot, my this, my that." And it's like we, that's why the conversation has to happen is, this is the shoe that you're going to get stronger in. Spend time in your training shoe. And then that's your speed day, that's your race day. So it's having this shoe spectrum, knowing when to dance along the spectrum.

    22. SB

      I feel like I can bounce in these.

    23. CC

      (laughs) I mean, you probably can.

    24. SB

      I literally, when I put it on, I was like, "Wow, I can bounce." And that-

    25. CC

      That's right.

    26. SB

      I think it has like a piece of metal going through the middle of it, which-

    27. CC

      Yeah, there's carbon in there. You know what another fun fact is though? Certain plyometrics, so plyometric is training the spring of the body, so think like jumping. There's research that will show you that plyometrics also increase capacity in running by 2% to 4%. So my conversation I have with my patients is, "Listen, what if we stacked therapies, right?" What if you did plyometric work-

    28. SB

      Which is?

    29. CC

      Uh, jumping.

    30. SB

      Yeah.

  15. 43:46 – 45:03

    The Shocking Link Between Movement and Dementia

    1. CC

    2. SB

      I think you mentioned there was this, an association with movement, walking and dementia-

    3. CC

      Yes.

    4. SB

      ... Alzheimer's risk. What, what does the science say there?

    5. CC

      You know, when you look at step counts, if that was going to be our baseline, 9,800 steps per day can reduce the risks of dementia. But what I think is the cool part with that is 3,800 steps, you get 50% of the maximal benefit. So if you were to, let's just call it 4,000, shoot for 4,000 steps, you're going to get a benefit.

    6. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    7. CC

      A 50% benefit. And some of my favorite research on looking at that population with walking is relationship walking. There's really cool studies, um, looking at walking in groups for the elderly population and how that has a social connection, and it improves their emotional health, and it combats loneliness and feelings of isolation. And that is the beauty of a

  16. 45:03 – 47:36

    The Rise of Run Clubs

    1. CC

      walk.

    2. SB

      Run clubs are getting i- incredibly popular at the moment-

    3. CC

      Yes.

    4. SB

      ... aren't they, all around the world? Are you seeing more and more people come to you as a result of that?

    5. CC

      Yes. I think also, um, you know, it was interesting, I was working at the running event in Austin, Texas, and I was teaching there, and so a lot of the shoe stores were there. And one of the bigger shoe stores had said that the majority of their clients now are actually walkers and not runners, and I thought that was pretty interesting. And I'm thinking to myself, "I wonder why that is. Like, are more people reverting to walking because they're getting injured when they're running? Are they..." You know, I'm making all these conclusions in my head. I'm like, "Well, is it because we're going in the wrong direction with footwear? (laughs) Because we're creating this shoe that is basically doing the work for us and it feels so good and, you know, people aren't putting the work in anymore?" I don't know, but I'm certainly going to do my best to change that.

    6. SB

      You brought me a box, which I have-

    7. CC

      Yes.

    8. SB

      ... here in front of me. Foot health kit.

    9. CC

      Yes.

    10. SB

      That's what it says on the front of the box. Um, foot health kit, I mean, what is in this box?

    11. CC

      It's like my little, like, bag of treats. You know, when I started doing this, it was funny, um...

    12. SB

      This is what you give people is a bag of treats-

    13. CC

      That's right. (laughs)

    14. SB

      ... for their birthdays and stuff.

    15. CC

      I want people to start thinking about their feet, because I, I think there's such, um, implications for their health, and I wanted to make it easy, because when we think about all the things we need to do to stay healthy, it's like, "I have to strength train. I have to, you know, eat this. I need to VO2 max. I need my cardiorespiratory fitness." There's a lot. So I wanted to make it easy. So I, um, first, what, one of the things that's, uh, that is in there are toe strengtheners.

    16. SB

      So I'll, I'll pull them out the box. So...

    17. CC

      Those are toe spacers.

    18. SB

      Toe spacers?

    19. CC

      Yes.

    20. SB

      So, uh, is this all the same thing, right?

    21. CC

      Yes.

    22. SB

      So these are toe spacers?

    23. CC

      Correct.

    24. SB

      And then there's this.

    25. CC

      Yes.

    26. SB

      What's this?

    27. CC

      Those are toe strengtheners.

    28. SB

      Toe strengtheners, okay.

    29. CC

      Yes.

    30. SB

      So that's my toe workout.

  17. 47:36 – 48:13

    The Foot Gym

    1. CC

    2. SB

      Okay. So, um, these are my feet and these are my ankles. So I had plantar fasciitis in, I believe it was this foot actually, and then right now I've got a high ankle sprain, which is some kind of ligament here has been torn, and they told me that it's torn on all three sides. So I've been in a boot for the last couple of weeks, but I've taken it off over the last, uh, week or two, and I, I was on crutches as well. Um, what are you... The minute I took my socks off, you became fixated on my feet.

    3. CC

      Yes.

    4. SB

      What, w- w- what do I need to be thinking about and what can you see just by looking at my feet?

    5. CC

      You know, when you're looking at this foot here, you can start to see

  18. 48:13 – 57:00

    Bunion Diagnoses

    1. CC

      this little, see this little bump here.

    2. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    3. CC

      You can start to see bumps on the top of the big toe.

    4. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    5. CC

      Okay? And, uh, it, the diagnosis is a hallux limitus or a hallux rigidus, and basically what that means is that you have formed, um, arthritis...... on the top of the toe. So, it prevents you from getting that full range of motion that we need when we walk and run.

    6. SB

      Okay.

    7. CC

      Okay? If the bump goes out to the side, that's what we call hallux valgus. That's the bunion.

    8. SB

      The bunion, okay.

    9. CC

      Okay? So, that's wh- why, uh, the foot is a, a window to mechanics, because you can see loads, aberrant loads, right? Why is this forming here? So, you know, one of the first things I'll wanna look at is how much range of motion. And the big toe, it's all about the big toe. When we're walking, we put a lot of loads and force that go through the big toe when we walk. You should have about 40 to 45 degrees to walk out of that big toe. So, here's Eddie, here's 45 degrees.

    10. SB

      It's up.

    11. CC

      Up.

    12. SB

      Okay.

    13. CC

      Okay?

    14. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    15. CC

      So, yes. So, what I'll wanna see is how much range of motion. Can you see how he's off the ground though?

    16. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    17. CC

      I want the ball of the big toe-

    18. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    19. CC

      ... on the ground. That's a good amount of range.

    20. SB

      That's the first nice thing you've said about my feet.

    21. CC

      (laughs) We're just getting started. I'll find something else. A- and then you wanna look at toe dexterity. So, in other words, can you isolate your toes? So, can you lift just your big toe on the right? Good.

    22. SB

      (grunts)

    23. CC

      And then on the left. Good.

    24. SB

      Tha- that's actually quite hard. Like, I've never had to do that before.

    25. CC

      It's funny, 'cause when you'll see people that have poor awareness to their feet, when they try to lift their toes, you'll see them, like-

    26. SB

      You're going back. (laughs)

    27. CC

      ... with their hands (laughs) and like... Your back isn't going to extend your toe. Okay, and then put your big toe down, and then extend your four toes. Yes.

    28. SB

      No, that pinky is not ... That's not listening.

    29. CC

      There you go. And here. Okay. And then what I want you to do is you're gonna lift up all of your toes-

    30. SB

      (grunts)

  19. 57:00 – 59:03

    Ads

    1. SB

      and think about our bodies. When Dr. Daniel Lieberman came on The Diary of a CEO, he explained how modern shoes, with their cushioning and support, are making our feet weaker and less capable of doing what nature intended them to do. We've lost the natural strength and mobility in our feet, and this is leading to issues like back pain and knee pain. I'd already purchased a pair of Vivobarefoot shoes, so I showed them to Daniel Lieberman and he told me that they were exactly the type of shoe that would help me restore natural foot movement and rebuild my strength. But I think it was plantar fasciitis that I had, where suddenly my feet started hurting all the time. And after that, I decided to start strengthening my own foot by using the Vivobarefoots. And research from Liverpool University has backed this up. They've shown that wearing Vivobarefoot shoes for six months can increase foot strength by up to 60%. Visit vivobarefoot.com/doac and use code Diary20 from my sponsor for 20% off. A strong body starts with strong feet. (page turns) Is there anything else that we need to be aware of? What is, what is this other stuff here? You've got, like, toe strengtheners as well.

    2. CC

      So before we get to those, with, you know, the big toe and the four toes?

    3. SB

      Yeah.

    4. CC

      This is when you can use that band.

    5. SB

      Okay.

    6. CC

      Right? So you just put your heel on there. Okay? You grab your four toes, right? It's like you're doing a bicep curl, but you're doing it with your toes. And you press into the band, and you lift up, and you press it into the band. There is research, four sets, 12 reps. I mean, these are some of the things that they work on to improve function of the foot that helps with plantar fasciitis.

    7. SB

      Mm-hmm. Okay.

    8. CC

      And then you go around the house and you grab the big toe, keep that ball of the big toe on the floor, and then press.

    9. SB

      Ah.

    10. CC

      Yes. Right? And it's, it's a good place to start. You're building strength in your foot.

    11. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    12. CC

      And if you wanna... If you wanna really get after it, go for just the little guy.

    13. SB

      Oh my gosh.

    14. CC

      (laughs)

    15. SB

      Little piggy. Let's have a look.

    16. CC

      It's really wild because the abductor digiti

  20. 59:03 – 1:06:05

    Importance of Strong Feet at the Gym

    1. CC

      minimi, the muscle that abducts the little toe, is just as big as the big one. We like, just are like, "Oh, that toe's just there to, you know, hit furniture."

    2. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    3. CC

      It stabilizes the outside of the foot.

    4. SB

      Mm-hmm. What is the difference between someone that does this and doesn't do this?

    5. CC

      Well, let's start with pain.

    6. SB

      Yeah.

    7. CC

      They... And I, I use the word prevent injury. Uh, that's tough for me. You wanna create an environment where you can have the best opportunity for function.

    8. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    9. CC

      So when people strengthen their foot, they are going to have a foundation that's going to have resilience to the rest of their system. This is what we, we walk on. You cannot, um, build a jet engine on a paper airplane. I'm working with a lot of... You know, athletes right now are getting bigger, they're getting stronger, they're getting faster. And if you look at the rates of injuries at the foot, they're going up, because we know the amount of loads that go through the foot when we walk and when we run.

    10. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    11. CC

      So if we wanna do a bunch of squats and do a bunch of deadlifts and do all the sexy stuff, but not pay attention to the foundation on which we're putting all of this on, you're going to run into problems. So from a function perspective, you're improving your function from the ground up. You're providing a better environment for your body to decrease pain. And when we get older, it's... You know, you don't wanna be chasing your tail with this stuff.

    12. SB

      How does this dovetail into mobility and flexibility? 'Cause that's something I'm thinking a lot about at the moment. Uh, I, I realized that as I do a lot of upper body workouts-

    13. CC

      Yes.

    14. SB

      ... and stuff like that, when you watch me, like, pick up the weights and stuff-

    15. CC

      Yeah.

    16. SB

      ... or put them back down, I look like I'm-I've got the mobility of someone that you would think was doubled by age.

    17. CC

      Yeah.

    18. SB

      And I wondered if it, a lot of it starts with our feet.

    19. CC

      So, we talked about the big toe. When you're walking, the big toe has to extend a certain amount. Okay? I'm gonna show you here. Okay? So when I'm walking, I have to have a certain range of motion out of my toe, and that gives me range of motion out of my knee and out of my hip.

    20. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    21. CC

      If I cheat the system, so let's say this is the only amount of range I have. Let's say I have a big toe that's only gonna extend 20 degrees. You're gonna compensate. You might shorten your stride. You might take shorter steps. You might not get access to hip extension 'cause your toe isn't going into full extension. So you will see some type of compensation.

    22. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    23. CC

      You know, the other one I think about is ankle mobility. You know, I was listening to one of your podcasts, and you were talking about, um, the story of you rafting in Bali, I think.

    24. SB

      Oh, yeah. Yeah.

    25. CC

      And how you were, you know, walking down the stairs, and how it's something that you wanna be able to do. And I was thinking to myself, I'm like, if you were to ask someone, "If you wanted to continue to be able to do that as you age, what would you want?"

    26. SB

      Uh, probably a VO2 max.

    27. CC

      Endurance.

    28. SB

      Yeah.

    29. CC

      Your hip strength maybe.

    30. SB

      Yeah.

  21. 1:06:05 – 1:09:49

    What Is a Running Gait?

    1. SB

    2. CC

      I mean, I love it. I think running is one of the best forms of activity. I think if we wanted to keep it very simple, overstriding is the enemy.

    3. SB

      Overstriding?

    4. CC

      Yes.

    5. SB

      What's an overstride?

    6. CC

      So, if I'm running, right? Here's my foot.

    7. SB

      Yeah.

    8. CC

      I want my foot to strike as close to my center of mass as possible.

    9. SB

      As in cl- as close to your body as possible?

    10. CC

      Yes.

    11. SB

      Okay.

    12. CC

      So, overstride would be as if I landed with my foot all the way out here.

    13. SB

      Okay. Okay.

    14. CC

      Yes.

    15. SB

      Got you.

    16. CC

      So, our calcaneus, this heel bone, was beautifully designed to absorb shock.

    17. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    18. CC

      Okay? When I overstride, and I can feel it, what am I gonna do? That's gonna hurt.So you're not gonna do it anymore. You're gonna overstride, and you're gonna be like, "Ah, that hurts." So I'm gonna adopt my gait pattern, and I might not overstride and bring that foot closer to me. So you strike differently.

    19. SB

      You want the foot to hit in line with your body?

    20. CC

      A little bit in front of the body.

    21. SB

      Okay.

    22. CC

      It's the heavy overstride you wanna avoid.

    23. SB

      Okay.

    24. CC

      'Kay? But if I can't feel anything, you don't know. That's the... The more stuff on the shoe, you can overstride hot and heavy, and because you have all this cushion there, you're gonna be like, "Well..."

    25. SB

      Yeah.

    26. CC

      So that's, you know, the argument of allowing your foot to be able to feel things.

    27. SB

      What about this whole thing with gaits and stuff? 'Cause sometimes when, when... I was videoed from the back, and someone in the comment section was like, "Your, like, gait is wrong," or something, "when you ran, Steve." So I didn't know what he meant. I didn't... Couldn't see his qualifications, so I kept it moving, but...

    28. CC

      Everybody has a, a certain gait.

    29. SB

      What is a gait?

    30. CC

      You have a running gait or walking gait. It's just your, what happens when your foot strikes the ground to the time it hits the ground again. So you have certain, um, stride lengths and step lengths.

  22. 1:09:49 – 1:17:29

    Are We Supposed to Be Barefoot?

    1. CC

      foot.

    2. SB

      Are we supposed to be barefoot?

    3. CC

      We are supposed to let our foot function how it was designed, and that is letting the foot feel the ground. Now we live on man-made surfaces, and we walk around on concrete. So for me to say, yes, we should all be walking around barefoot. That's a conversation that's difficult to have.

    4. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    5. CC

      But the stronger that your foot becomes and the more resilient that it becomes, you can handle these things a lot better, and it makes interacting with your environment so much more fun and easy.

    6. SB

      Mm-hmm. What are these?

    7. CC

      Okay. (laughs) My daughter was a rock climber, and she was up in her room one day, and she had the bands around her fingers, and she was, like, strengthening her hands. And I was looking at it and I was like, "Man," I'm like, "I want one of those for the foot." And I'm looking for them, and I couldn't find them, so I said, "Well, here we go." So I designed these, and they're different resistances.

    8. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    9. CC

      So it's the same concept as you would with your hands. You just put them around your toes.

    10. SB

      Okay.

    11. CC

      'Kay?

    12. SB

      Give me the easy one. Which one's easier?

    13. CC

      That's the easy one.

    14. SB

      Okay. Here we go. Are they-

    15. CC

      So-

    16. SB

      ... all the same si- size? Would you need different sizes for different size feet?

    17. CC

      Nope. So when your toes splay, you can slide those on a little easier.

    18. SB

      My (laughs) little piggy is completely redundant. It's doing nothing, it feels like. It feels like it's disabled.

    19. CC

      Well, we're gonna change that. 'Kay?

    20. SB

      Yeah.

    21. CC

      So when you lift up all your toes, try to get your big toe to touch my finger. Yes. That's abductor hallucis. That's this muscle right here. So people that have, like, bunions, it's like, just strengthen that muscle, right? So you... That guy goes in, and you hold right there. So now you're strengthening inside of the foot.

    22. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    23. CC

      You're strengthening the muscles inside the arch of the foot. If you can get that little guy to go out, you're gonna strengthen this guy. So you're just gonna lift all your toes. Good, and then spread, reaching forward. Try to keep the tripod of the foot though.

    24. SB

      Okay, so I'm trying to-

    25. CC

      Lift all your toes, but keep that tripod. One, two, center of the heel.

    26. SB

      So lift-

    27. CC

      Yes. Yes, yes.

    28. SB

      And s-

    29. CC

      And split. Yes. Now, press those toes to the ground as you spread them. Lift, spread, reach.

    30. SB

      Yeah.

  23. 1:17:29 – 1:19:30

    Ads

    1. CC

    2. SB

      Okay. I made the biggest investment I've ever made in a company because of my girlfriend. I came home one night and my lovely girlfriend was up at 1:00 AM in the morning, pulling her hair out as she tried to piece together her own online store for her business. And in that moment, I remembered an email I'd had from a guy called John, the founder of Stan Store, our new sponsor, and a company I've invested incredibly heavily in. And Stan Store helps creators to sell digital products, courses, coaching and memberships, all through a simple, customizable link in bio system. And it handles everything, payments, bookings, emails, community engagement, and even links with Shopify. And I believe in it so much that I'm going to launch a Stan challenge. And as part of this challenge, I'm gonna give away $100,000 to one of you. If you wanna take part in this challenge, if you wanna monetize the knowledge that you have, visit stevenbartlett.stan.store to sign up. And you'll also get an extended 30-day free trial of Stan Store if you use that link. Your next move could, quite frankly, change everything. Make sure you keep what I'm about to say to yourself. I'm inviting 10,000 of you to come even deeper into The Diary of a CEO. Welcome to my Inner Circle. This is a brand new private community that I'm launching to the world. We have so many incredible things that happen that you are never shown. We have the briefs that are on my pad when I'm recording the conversation. We have clips we've never released. We have behind the scenes conversations with the guests, and also the episodes that we've never, ever released, and so much more. In the Circle, you'll have direct access to me. You can tell us what you want this show to be, who you want us to interview, and the types of conversations you would love us to have. But remember, for now, we're only inviting the first 10,000 people that join before it closes. So if you wanna join our private closed community, head to the link in the description below or go to D-O-A-Ccircle.com. I will speak to you there.Do

  24. 1:19:30 – 1:21:34

    Should We Wear Socks?

    1. SB

      you wear socks?

    2. CC

      Uh, I do not wear socks.

    3. SB

      Why?

    4. CC

      I just haven't found any that I, you know, love. My second and third toes, this is personal information here-

    5. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    6. CC

      ... are webbed. So basically, there's skin that comes up in between two and three.

    7. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    8. CC

      So as far as socks are concerned, most of the socks out there, like if you look at a compression sock, when someone puts it on their foot, it literally, like with my bunion, you'll see my foot look like this 'cause it's just suctioning my foot together, and it's so uncomfortable.

    9. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    10. CC

      So my option would be a toe sock.

    11. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    12. CC

      So a sock that, you know, just fits over your toes. But because my toes are webbed, I can't wear them.

    13. SB

      Well, what do you think is the most important thing that we haven't talked about yet that we should've talked about as it relates to foot health and everything downstream from foot health?

    14. CC

      I mean, I think, you know, big picture, like what I hope to do, like my passion is to bring awareness to the foot. Because when we start doing that and we pay attention from getting stronger from the ground up, things, life gets easier. (laughs) And I mean that not just physically, but just like we talked about wellness, because you're able to move and get out there and walk and run and move like you want to. So that's kind of the big, the big picture here. I think we talked about the importance of foot strength and foot mobility and driving home the importance of footwear. I think the biggest, you know, or maybe the lowest hanging fruit for people is if this kind of work seems overwhelming, like, "I have to strengthen my toe and do all this stuff," just wear a shoe where your foot can feel the ground and your foot can be in its functional position. Start there. Because the research will tell you just doing that, you will start to improve the strength of your foot.

  25. 1:21:34 – 1:23:34

    Viewer Comments

    1. CC

      And I think that's, that's key. And start small, transition.

    2. SB

      It's so interesting listening to so many of these, um, the comments from some of your previous work. Uh, people of all ages, but, uh, often, people that are slightly older, talking about how transformative finding out more information about their feet has been and changing their footwear in particular. Reading this one comment here from this guy. It says, he's 65 years old, and when he discovered the zero drop wide box toe shoes, he lost all the pain in his feet, ankles, knees, and hips within a couple of months.

    3. CC

      I hear it all the time. I hear it all the time, and it's, it seems so counterintuitive to us because I think we've been, you know, trained to think that our foot needs stuff, it needs support, it needs cushion, it needs spring. And that changes the dynamics of how your foot interfaces with the ground.

    4. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    5. CC

      So when you bring it back to what it was designed to do, those comments you'll hear, well, you will hear all the time. And it's, it's a wonderful thing. It's literally why I do this.

    6. SB

      Is there anything else we should've talked about that we didn't, that you think is pertinent to anyone that's trying to get control of, um, their foot health?

    7. CC

      I mean, I think, you know, I just wanna make sure that we highlight the conversation of transition, because I think that's where we lose people is this... When people listen to this, there's bells going off in their brains going, "Man, this makes sense. This makes sense." They want to go home, burn all their shoes, and like go buy a pair of barefoot shoes and call it a day. Uh, you got to earn your right, so there has to be that transition. There has to be that, "I'm going to step. I'm going to build. I'm going to have a shoe spectrum." And that, that conversation of a

  26. 1:23:34 – 1:26:45

    What Happens After Ankle Injuries Heal

    1. CC

      s- shoe spectrum, there's a time and a place. You have your workhorse shoe. You have your cheat shoe, and you know when to wear what.

    2. SB

      Hmm. Where am I now? I'm, I think I'm in the workhorse shoe. I'm trying not to wear any cushioned shoes as much as I possibly can, um-

    3. CC

      Well, when you think about it with ankle sprains, this is what I find fascinating, right? When that thing heals, when your ankle heals, and you say, "Well, I'm gonna go into a cushioned shoe," some of these shoes are get- getting high.

    4. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    5. CC

      So you put the sole of your foot on a shoe that has a high cushion, you see the distance you have from your foot to the ground?

    6. SB

      Yeah.

    7. CC

      So let's say you step on a rock and you have poor proprioception 'cause your foot can't feel real well 'cause you have a history of ankle sprains, and you step on a rock and you have this far to go, where do you think that ankle's going?

    8. SB

      Hmm.

    9. CC

      So my ankle sprain patients, I want them close to the ground. I want them to feel, right? So it's, it's pretty wild when people are like, "I wanna wear, you know, all this stuff." You know, hiking boots, another conversation.

    10. SB

      W- what's wrong with hiking boots?

    11. CC

      Well, people will say, "I need a hiking boot 'cause I n- I want my ankles to feel stable," and that's not what they do. It might be a... And there will be research coming out on this. Uh, when you wear a hiking boot, it's like a neurological hug. It kind of feels like, you know, that I'm gonna have this thing around my ankle.

    12. SB

      And it's gonna protect me.

    13. CC

      It's gonna protect me. Uh, it doesn't. And when you walk down a mountain, this foot has to do... Remember we talked about this, ankle dorsiflexion. If you have something that's going to restrict ankle dorsiflexion, you have transfer loads. So you end up transferring load to the knee.

    14. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    15. CC

      So, you know, when my patients say to me, "I need a hiking boot," I say to them, "Listen. Why don't we just work on getting your ankle more stable? Improving your mobility? So then you won't need to feel like you need this thing around your ankle." And that takes time. But in the long run ...

    16. SB

      Is there an issue if I'm wearing the barefoot shoes at the moment and then I start wearing, like, football boots again or, I think you guys call them cleats-

    17. CC

      Yeah.

    18. SB

      ... is there a chance of me getting injured 'cause I spent so long in the barefoot shoes, now I'm performing in-

    19. CC

      No, it's, your... Sometimes you can't do anything about the environment of the shoe. So think of a cleat, um, an ice skate, a ski boot. There's certain, um, you know, sports-

    20. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    21. CC

      ... that require this stiffness. And so when you pay attention to your foot health, and then you put that foot in the cleat, you just make sure that when you get your foot out of the cleat, you do all the stuff. You take that kit, you roll the bottom of the foot. When I get out of my cycling shoes, even though they are wider now, they have wide toe box cycling shoes, I'm

  27. 1:26:45 – 1:28:17

    What You'll Most Likely Regret in 10 Years

    1. CC

      always doing stuff for my foot. Because it's a, the cleat is an environment for the sport. So, you know, you pay attention before and you pay attention after.

    2. SB

      Courtney, we have a closing tradition on this podcast where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest, not knowing who they're going to be leaving it for.

    3. CC

      (laughs)

    4. SB

      And the question that has been left for you ...

    5. CC

      Oh, this is gonna be good, huh?

    6. SB

      It is a good one. What do you fear you will most likely regret 10 years from now?

    7. CC

      This is a battle that I have, um, in my head pretty much all the time. I love my work so much. It is... (sighs) It's just the reason that I feel that, you know, I... There's so much I want to do. There's so much I want to learn. There's so many ways I want to help people. Um, and I work a lot. But I don't look at it as work. I, I enjoy it. Um, but I'm also a mother. And I need to find that work/life balance where I, I don't want to fear in 10 years that I look back and said, "Man, I worked a lot, but I really wished I would have gone to her soccer game." So I've created this life for me where I can say, "I'm not gonna do that, I'm going to her soccer game." And she gets mad at me all the time, but I tell her, I'm like, "This is what happens when you own your own business." (laughs)

Episode duration: 1:30:36

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