The Man That Makes Millionaires: How To Turn $1,000 Into $100 Million!: Alex Hormozi | E235

1. 0:00 – 2:14

   Intro

   1. AHAlex Hormozi0:00

      I'm gonna say some stuff that's gonna bother some people. People who are listening to this and are not making as much money as they want, they have to- Mr. Alex Hormozi, the 100 million dollar man.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett0:07

      Entrepreneur, investor, and philanthropist.

   3. AHAlex Hormozi0:10

      Taking the internet by storm.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett0:11

      This guy really, really does understand how to build a business.

   5. AHAlex Hormozi0:15

      I was 22. I had done everything that my dad had wanted me to do, and I was looking out from the condo that I'd been able to buy with this job that I had, and, um, I always hoped I wouldn't wake up the next day. I cherish the fact that it was so miserable that it got me to change. Pain motivates significantly faster and stronger than pleasure does. If you are angry, use it. If you are sad, use it. Or it uses you. I didn't know whether I would succeed, but I did know I wasn't going to stop. Right around that point is when I met my wife, and then she just changed my life.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett0:43

      How did she change you?

   7. AHAlex Hormozi0:44

      Like... Didn't think we were gonna go here. Um, (laughs) she just, she believed in me. She stood tall when everything in my life was crumbling around me. I was, like, dead broke in her parents' house, and I was like, "I, I think you should leave me." She pulled my chin towards her and she was like, "I would sleep with you under a bridge if it came to that." Six months later, I have $3 million in the bank account. All of that was the first nine months of our relationship. For her to have that kind of belief was, was very, um, it was deep for me, and I think that's what most guys want, truly.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett1:32

      What makes a really good entrepreneur/leader?

   9. AHAlex Hormozi1:36

      I'll answer this differently than I have in the past, and I'm gonna tell a story that hopefully people don't take the wrong way. But I had a cat.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett1:43

       Before this episode starts, I have a small favor to ask from you. Two months ago, 74% of people that watch this channel didn't subscribe. We're now down to 69%. My goal is 50%, so if you've ever liked any of the videos we've posted, if you like this channel, can you do me a quick favor and hit the subscribe button? It helps this channel more than you know, and the bigger the channel gets, as you've seen, the bigger the guests get. Thank you and enjoy this episode.

2. 2:14 – 8:54

   What do you do and why?

   1. SBSteven Bartlett2:15

      Alex, I spend several hours consuming all of your content across multiple channels. What is the aim? What is the mission? What is the, the intent if you were to try and summarize the content you're producing and the value you're trying to add and to who are you trying to add it to?

   2. AHAlex Hormozi2:38

      To make business accessible for everyone. That was the mission of the company, and so our whole idea was we'll put everything out there, uh, for free, so no paywalls. So, there's, like, we have courses on the site, the books I have for 99 cents, um, so that anyone can get them, and, you know, we'll continue to produce as much as we can, and we share the learnings that we have from our portfolio companies in order to keep the stuff that we are putting out there relevant, new, fresh, cutting edge, because this is what's working today. And by doing that, it also brings other companies to us because they get value from the stuff, and our goal is always to hopefully provide more value to a company before they've ever spoken to us, um, like kind of pay for our self in advance is kinda, like, the thought process, even though we're buying in. Um, and that's, that was kind of the thesis when we started it. I didn't know if it was gonna work, uh, but it seems to have gone pretty well, uh, and it was just, kind of just, like, if we just give and keep giving and keep giving, we just focus on the value and delivering to the audience, um, it'll come back eventually.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett3:45

      What are you giving them, and who are you giving it to?

   4. AHAlex Hormozi3:49

      Entrepreneurs at all stages. Um, we've surveyed the audience. 25% of the audience, uh, has a business. 75% does not have a business, but wants to start a business, and so that's just kind of overall. Um, and then within that 25%, it's just kind of categories all the way up to, you know, business is doing 100 million plus a year, and so it's everyone. And so we try and... Or, one of the things that we talk about is, like, going wide and deep. It's like, how can we figure something that is relevant to somebody who's, you know, launching their first product and also make it accessible or interesting to somebody who's launching a new product line within a division of their conglomerate, right? And just trying to think about both people at the same time, which becomes more challenging, but it's also kind of fun.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett4:26

      Kind of like a funnel, isn't it, in, in s- some respects. Um, that's exactly what I saw from your content. You're r- you're making great content that's helping people that are at the start of their journey or, you know, 100 ploys deep into their journey trying to figure out how to scale. You're making content that's bringing down some of the b- barriers, whether psychological or practical, to enable them to reach whatever dream they have. Let's go way upstream then. H- what do I need to know about you to understand the life you've led? Take me way back to your childhood and early context.

   6. AHAlex Hormozi4:59

      Both parents are imm- immigrants to the US. Uh, Mother was born in France, came here. Fa- Father was born in Iran. Um, they met in medical school in Europe, uh, and then my mother brought him back with her (laughs) to the US, and then, uh, they had me, and, uh, they split. My mom had a lot of demons. She had a lot of things she struggled with when I was coming up, so I pretty much was raised by my dad. Uh, had no siblings. It was just me and my dad for... Until I was about 15. Um, he got remarried. It was a short stint in terms of, uh, how long I was, like, kinda in the house. You know, like, right at that stage is when you can drive, and-

   7. SBSteven Bartlett5:34

      Mm-hmm.

   8. AHAlex Hormozi5:35

      ... I was kind of on my own almost at that point. Um, soon as I could work and drive, I was kinda out of the house, um, and then from there, did the thing that most people try and do, which is, uh, I, I, I worked hard at school, mostly 'cause I just didn't want my dad to be upset with me, which was, uh, the main driver for most of my achievement and my career for the first half, um, was all just trying to gain his approval. Um, did all the things that I thought he would want me to. Uh-... got a job at a government contracting, uh, consulting firm, a defense contracting. It was space, cyber, and ISR. Uh, so it's intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance, uh, for the military. Sounded really cool, was less cool (laughs) when you were in it, um, and I was very, very sad, um, at that point in my life. And so, it was very much like I didn't... I always hoped I wouldn't wake up the next day. Um, and it was-

   9. SBSteven Bartlett6:28

      Do you mean that?

   10. AHAlex Hormozi6:28

       Truly.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett6:29

       You really mean that?

   12. AHAlex Hormozi6:31

       100%. 100%, 'cause I remember when I was looking at, um... 'Cause a lot of people have, like, rock top moments, sorry, rock bottom moments. I think I had more of a rock top moment, which was, um, I was 22. I had done everything that my dad had wanted me to do at this point. I was looking out from the condo that I'd been able to buy with this job that I had, and, um, I was like, "Is this it?" And the whole time, I just really didn't enjoy my life. Um, and it was just, you know, not wanting to wake up. And it was... The, the decision to leave Baltimore, which is where I was from, to quit that path to decide to start a business of my own was still, to this day, the hardest thing I've ever done by far. All the things we've been through to, to build what we have, the hardest decision was taking the leap for me. Uh, and it was because, like, I knew that my dad so much wanted me to do what I was doing 'cause he was so happy that I was doing everything (laughs) he wanted me to do at that point. And I had told him over and over again that I wanted to do this other stuff, and he's like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, later. You know, later." Um, and so I knew that it would probably put a big dent in our relationship, um, if I left. But for me, it was actually confronting the fact that I didn't want to be alive anymore, which was the thing that gave me enough courage or whatever you want to call it, to actually make the decision to leave home. And so I started driving across the country. I mean, it took me six months to do this. Like, when I f- between when I decided I really wanted to do this and when I actually did it took me six months. And, uh, I called him when I was, like, halfway across the United States, and I was like, "I'm going to California. I'm gonna open a gym. I'm gonna get into fitness." And he was like, "Why are you so extreme?" And he, like, lost it, and then we didn't really talk much for a long time.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett8:25

       When you started realizing that your life, um, was one where you didn't want to wake up-

   14. AHAlex Hormozi8:32

       Mm-hmm.

   15. SBSteven Bartlett8:32

       ... in the morning when you had that job in management consultancy-

   16. AHAlex Hormozi8:37

       Mm-hmm.

   17. SBSteven Bartlett8:37

       ... did you experience suicidal ideation? Is that what you're saying when you say, "I didn't want to, I didn't want to wake up into my life every day"?

   18. AHAlex Hormozi8:43

       It was never... Like, I've never had a, like, "This is how I'd kill myself." Nope. Never had that. I just always... Like, the idea that I could not wake up the next day sounded good.

3. 8:54 – 15:54

   Letting your dreams die for others

   1. AHAlex Hormozi8:55

   2. SBSteven Bartlett8:55

      When you look back in hindsight from that moment backwards, what are the series of decisions or the, the things that led you to find yourself in the position? And I ask that because there's a lot of people that can probably relate.

   3. AHAlex Hormozi9:05

      Totally.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett9:06

      And, and there's probably quite a consistent set of frog pads or stones that one has walking down, for whatever reason-

   5. AHAlex Hormozi9:15

      Yeah.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett9:16

      ... that lead you to a position where you go, "What the fu- Whose life is this?"

   7. AHAlex Hormozi9:21

      I think the, like, the one-line summary for me was that, like, I felt like I had to let my dad's dream die for mine to live. And I felt like my entire life it had always, up to that point, had been like, go to this school, do these studies. You know what I mean? It's, it's a common thing. Like, it's not like I had something that a lot of people don't have. Many people... And to be fair, I'm very grateful for the skills, discipline, et cetera, that that instilled in me, um, because I think you, you, you have the, the hard hand of an authoritarian, um, parent when you're growing up, and it teaches you a lot of skills. And then, you know, the flip side is if you have a very laissez-faire parent, like, you never learn those skills which then benefit you later. So, you know, who knows. Um, but for me, um, I knew that he just wanted me to be a doctor. That's what he was. That would've been his dream. I went to school as pre-med, um, and then I'd... Uh, it was like even changing my degree from pre-med to just a business degree was, like, a huge deal. Um, but he was okay with that as long as I followed, like, the business path. And so, when I did my two years of consulting, which is kind of the typical, like, two to four years you do consulting, and then you apply to go to business school, um, when I was going through that process, I was answering the question for, like, the Harvard MBA, and it was like, "How will Harvard MBA help your short and long-term goals?" And I sat there for, like, two days trying to answer the question, and I was like, "It just isn't. I want to start a business." And so that was when I kept trying to, you know, start that conversation with my dad, and it just wasn't really happening. Um, and so that's what... That was kind of the breaking point for me, was, like, I just felt terrible about my life, and I didn't, didn't like the way it was going. And I... For me, it was such a key point because the biggest line of reasoning I had for myself in order to convince myself to confront my father or at least disappoint my father or the version of myself that he wanted me to be was to say that, like, I have to be comfortable dying in his eyes. And a lot of people, like... And many people might think that was hyperbole, but for me, it was very true. Like, I, I knew that I would die in his eyes, and I did. Um, to give you context, so I had the gyms, and I opened up multiple after that. Got to about six locations, sold those. Started a gym turnaround business. Did that for two years. Um, all the while, we weren't really in t- you know, we were, like, okay in touch. Um, and then we started the licensing business, which is Gym Launch, and that's the one that, like, really took off. And we hadn't been super in touch, and, oh, I get a call out of the blue, and he wasn't, like, a cold call. You know what I mean? I was like, "This is weird." So I pick up the phone, and he's like, "You're gonna want to sit down for this." And I was like, "Okay. Uh, what's up?" I was thinking, like, cancer. You know what I mean? I'm just like, "What, uh, what is it gonna be?" He was like, "I'm sorry." And I was like, "For what?" He was like, "You know, everything." I was like, "Okay."And (sighs) I was very angry still, because... And this is what I told him. So I was like, I was like, "You know that point when people, like, get on stage and they accept the awards?" And mind you, at this point, I think we were doing... We were probably taking home one and a half million a month. You know what I mean? In take home, like, personal income from the license. It was a, it was a decent si-... Like, it was a... I'm not... You know, conglomerate, like, probably, but it was a decent sized business. And (sighs) I was like, "You know, when people get on stage and they accept awards for things, uh, like, the first thing they always say is, like, 'Hey, I just wanna thank my mom and dad for always believing in me.'" And I was like, "I'm not gonna say that." I was like, "'Cause you didn't." I was like, "You're only saying this now once everyone believed, because it's not belief anymore. It's fact. It's evidence." I was like, "So, you're..." I was like, "This apology means nothing to me." And, "Besides that, I stopped caring what you thought six years ago, which is why I left." And so I had... Like, that's (laughs) like, I, I could've just accepted it, and I, and I, I didn't do that. Um-

   8. SBSteven Bartlett13:10

      How d'you feel about that?

   9. AHAlex Hormozi13:12

      I prob- like, today I probably would've just said, "Thanks, I appreciate it." I know where he was trying. I... He was trying to extend an olive branch, um, and I just wasn't there. I was still seething. I was still very angry that I had not gotten any support during that process. And maybe that was very woe-is-me. Um, but I was still very angry at that point. And (sighs) you know, to give also a little bit of context, you know, his response to that was like, "Well, we'll see how long it lasts."

   10. SBSteven Bartlett13:37

       You're joking.

   11. AHAlex Hormozi13:38

       No. So like, my father and I, like... He has a very strong personality, and so do I, and we both think we're right.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett13:45

       Are you angry about it now? Honestly?

   13. AHAlex Hormozi13:48

       No. I mean, like, (sighs) I think I can still feel the emotions, but I feel like I've, you know, thought about it enough to say that I can logically say, "I think he absolutely did the best he could with what he had." He was a single dad, another country, raising a kid, trying to get that kid to fit in. And do the things that... Like, one of the things that I think my dad always wanted me to be able to do is like... 'Cause he's darker skin than I am. He's Middle Eastern. Um, he always wanted me to, like, have access to, like, the back rooms where, like, deals were made that he felt like he wasn't a part of, and so he just wanted me to have that. And so I think he just drove me as much as he could to, to get that. And it's just, like, when you're on the other side of it, like, all you feel is never succeeding. But I can appreciate it now in retrospect. Um, but it definitely was still... It hardened me a lot. But that hardness, I think, has, has benefited me a lot in business.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett14:47

       I had someone on the, the podcast say a quote which I've never managed to forget. They said, "You've got to realize that everybody you encounter, everybody that does you wrong, if you were them, and you'd been through what they've been through, and you had their brain, you'd be doing the exact same thing."

   15. AHAlex Hormozi15:01

       Yeah.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett15:01

       And it sounds... It's obvious in one hand, but it's also very, kind of, illuminating. That-

   17. AHAlex Hormozi15:05

       Yeah.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett15:05

       ... think about the person that's wronged you the most. If you'd been through th- their shoes and you had their genetics-

   19. AHAlex Hormozi15:09

       Yeah.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett15:09

       ... you'd be doing the exact same thing.

   21. AHAlex Hormozi15:12

       Yeah.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett15:12

       Doesn't mean you have to let them off.

   23. AHAlex Hormozi15:13

       (laughs)

   24. SBSteven Bartlett15:14

       But at least it, uh, invokes some empathy.

   25. AHAlex Hormozi15:16

       Have you heard that, um, you cannot both hate and understand someone at the same time?

   26. SBSteven Bartlett15:20

       T- True.

   27. AHAlex Hormozi15:22

       Like, if you truly understand someone, then you can't hate them, because you understand why. Like, a lot of times, the hate is from th- the unknown and not... Like, 'cause you hate 'cause... I mean, you almost say it. You're like, "How could..." Like, it's, it's literally a statement of not understanding.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett15:34

       Mm.

   29. AHAlex Hormozi15:35

       Like, "How could you..." If you understood, then you would know how.

   30. SBSteven Bartlett15:38

       And that resentment is a byproduct of just not understanding as well.
4. 15:54 – 34:26

   The ups and downs of my business journey

   1. SBSteven Bartlett15:54

      burning less dirty now?

   2. AHAlex Hormozi15:55

      Yeah, I think so.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett15:56

      You think so?

   4. AHAlex Hormozi15:56

      Yeah, I think so. I- my, my team tells me, um, that that's true. And if you look at, like... 'Cause I do have some older videos that I made from, like, you know, years ago. Um, and there's definitely a different vibe. (laughs)

   5. SBSteven Bartlett16:08

      (laughs)

   6. AHAlex Hormozi16:09

      I'm, I'm significantly friendlier (laughs) now-

   7. SBSteven Bartlett16:11

      I see.

   8. AHAlex Hormozi16:11

      ... than I was then. Um, I mean, even the way I interacted with customers and, you know, the team was, like, purely fear-driven. Like, I was absolutely... 'Cause I didn't understand influence as well yet. Um, so only, only... And the stick I had was like, if I... If people are afraid of me, then they will immediately comply. And it's effective for short durations, but not for long durations. Um, and s-... But I didn't know any better at the time, and then I slow-... Yeah, that's when I... You know, right around that point is when I met my wife, and then she just, you know, changed my life. Um, and she started running all the businesses, and I'd see her, and everyone loved her. And I was like, "Man, (laughs) I should do more, more of that stuff and less of my stuff." Um-

   9. SBSteven Bartlett16:50

      She changed your life?

   10. AHAlex Hormozi16:51

       Oh, yeah, for sure. Bar none. I mean, she's, like, the best. (laughs)

   11. SBSteven Bartlett17:00

       How did she change you?

   12. AHAlex Hormozi17:02

       She has brought out the absolute best in me, like, in, in just about every way. Like... Didn't think we were gonna go here. Um, (laughs) she just... She believed in me. And I think that's what most guys want, truly. At least for me, that's what I wanted or needed. I'll tell you a story to illustrate it. So (sighs) we met, talked for four hours on the first date, only about business, (laughs) 'cause that's all I wanted to talk about. And I pitched her on working for me. I was like, "Quit your job, work for me." And she was like, "I just met you." (laughs) Logically makes sense. She was a personal trainer. I had a bunch of gyms. And I was like, "If you're this good, you should totally work for me." She was like, "Well, let's, you know, let's see how (laughs) this goes." Um, and so I had this idea for the turnaround business, and it was right as I had five, five locations at that point, and I wanted to try this thing out. So I flew out, did three turnarounds, flew back-And they started working. And then, um, I sold all my gyms 'cause it was like, "Okay, this, this makes even more money." I took all the money and put it into, uh, this gym that one of the guys I was doing a turnaround with was like, "Dude, you'd just crush this. Like, I'm a really good operator." Instead of turning these gyms around and walking away with just the money, he's like, "You should just keep owning them, and I'll just fill up, fill them up behind you." So I could, I could launch one, two, three gyms a month, and then own them all. He's like, "You're leaving so much money on the table." I was like, "Okay." So we did this first launch. I put all the money in. He's like, "Of course, " he had financial difficulties, and I had to personally guaran- g- you know, personally guarantee the lease. Normal stuff. Um, and so I crushed this launch. And then I wake up one morning, I check the bank account, and, uh, it's completely empty. And I was like, "What's happening?" So I called him up and he was like, "Well, I know you're s- you're skimming from the business." And I was like, "What?" He's like, "I know you're, I know you're, you're skimming." I was like, "Um, um, h- we just what? No." Um, he's like, "Well, that was my half." Uh, and so, I was like, "What is happening?" So I, I printed all the bank, the bank statements. I went line by line, and I was like, "Let me, I'll, I'll walk you through all the bank statements. Let's just, let's get to the bottom of this." And I remember, we went, we sat to the meeting, and he was like, "I don't need to see that." And he pushed it off the table, and I was like, "Oh, okay." I immediately was like, "Oh, he, I just got fucked." (laughs) Like, and he'd already been indicted for fraud. Um, and I knew this getting into business with him, and it was just a big misunderstanding. And, you know, the saying goes, like, uh, when experience meets money, money gets the experience, and experience gets money. Um, very much loved that. And so after I had all my gyms, I sold them, put all the money in this thing, and then it all got taken. Um, and so I had nothing. And, um, Leila's with me at this point (laughs) for this, like, this exciting period. So I was like, "Okay." She's like, "Hey, you know, maybe we should keep doing these turnarounds instead of this weird launch-and-go thing you side- sidelined for." Uh, and I was like, "Okay, we'll do that." And so I was gonna launch a gym the next month. Um, and there was a guy who was local to that gym, and since I was refocusing, I was like, "All right, I'm gonna build all the infrastructure. I'll send the sales guy up to do this thing." And, uh, he crushed the launch. Did like, 120,000, which for us was a big launch, um, in like, three day- uh, in three weeks. And so now I'm at Leila's parents' house, because, uh, like, we don't really have a house at this point. Um, and I'm the guy that she met from the internet that she quit her job for, uh, who just lost everything. And, uh, I was, I was, I needed this 100 grand to come in from this launch, so that I could recapitalize. And the money wasn't hitting. I was checking the bank account. I was like, "Where is this money?" Like, and I, I could see the processing, the transactions, and it was all successful. I was like, "What's going on?" So I call the, the processor up, and I was like, "What's up?" And they, uh, they said, "It's a routine check." I was like, "I've been with you guys six years. There's never been a routine check." And they were like, "Call again later." And I was like, "Okay." So I call back the next day, next day, nothing. And then finally, it was Christmas Eve, and I owed this guy money for the commissions from the sales. And I was like, "I will not get off this phone until you send me the money that I am owed," and, uh-

   13. SBSteven Bartlett21:21

       To the payment processor?

   14. AHAlex Hormozi21:22

       Mm-hmm. And they were like, long story short, uh, "You were doing stuff in different locations, and I was running this all through a local gym business, even though I was all over the nation." And they were like, "This is a little irregular. We're just gonna hold on to this for six months."

   15. SBSteven Bartlett21:36

       Shit.

   16. AHAlex Hormozi21:36

       Right. Now, I owe the guy $22,000 in commissions. I, in total now, had $23,000. So I wired him the money, and I had $1,000 left. And it was December of 2016. And I was like, I screenshot it 'cause I still have the screenshot of my bank account. So I went from like, six gyms, turnaround business, all this stuff, to $1,000. And I was like, "This sucks." (laughs) And Leila had just got six of her friends to quit their job to come do this turnaround business with me. And they were starting two days later from the 24th, so the 26th of December, 'cause I had planned on getting this 100 grand in and then being able to launch six gyms, 'cause it took about, you know, whatever. Uh, it was $3,300 a day in cost to have six guys out there in the field selling, 3,300 a day that I did not have. And so I still had a credit card that had $100,000 limit on it. Um, and so I'm at her parents' house, like, in, in an extra bedroom, having lost everything. And the, my one Hail Mary play of this launch, the money did not come through. And I was like, "I, I think you should leave me." Um, I, I think I am a, a sinking ship right now, and I would respect you, like, we're cool if you wanna walk away. Like, we're good. Like, I won't think less of you. Like, I would walk away from you right now, 'cause this could, this has a very high likelihood of not going right." And, um, she pulled my chin towards her, and she was like, "I would sleep with you under a bridge if it came to that." And it's hard to comprehend, but, like, I had nothing. (laughs) You know? Like, for her to have that kind of belief was, was very, um, it was deep for me. So it was like, "Fuck it, let's go." (laughs) You know what I mean? And so then we, we launched the gyms doing $3,300 a day. And, uh, mind you, I had no way to process money still, so I'm collecting 60 to 80 contracts a day that I can't process. And so we're getting calls from customers like, "Hey, why haven't you run my card? Have- why haven't you run my card?" I'm calling all these processors just to be like, "Hey, can you plea-" And as soon as you get shut down from a processor, it's like a black mark. It's like going bankrupt for credit cards. Um, they're like, "Oh, no, something is weird. We..." They just won't. They have other people they can process the money for. Finally, I get like, a high-risk processor that does, like, porn and casinos and stuff to, like, give me... And they were like, "Yeah, so it's gonna be like, 8% processing, and we're gonna hold 10% as like, safeguard." And I was like, "Jesus, okay, yes." And they were like, "And we can only give you $50,000 as your limit." And I was like, "G-" I was like, "I need like, 200." And he's like, "Well..." And I got this on the 29th of January. So this whole time, 3,300 a day is running on this card, and I have no money, and I have no way to process it. (laughs) And 29th of January, I can run 50 grand. I run 50 grand in a day. And he's like, "But it's by month." He's like, "So February 1st, you can run another 50." So February 1st, I run another 50. That 100 covers my cost from the month before. And then-I get two more processors for 50, boom, boom, run those, and then, like, I got a third one, uh, or fourth one, like, two weeks later, and I was able to, like, start moving (laughs) things around. Um, and at the end of February, uh, we'd made like a $30,000 profit, and, um, I was like, "Okay, I think we might be out of this." And the next month, we did a little bit more, and I was like, "Okay, I think this is working." And then all of a sudden, Layla taps me on the shoulder one morning, and she's like, she, like, turns her laptop towards me, and it's our bank account, and it has all these negative transactions, like hundreds of them. And I was like, "What's going on?" She's like, "Well, all these clients are calling me saying that the gym that we did this launch at, month and a half ago, the guy got in his chair and was like, 'Hey, there's too many of you here,' like, 'just go home, just refund.'" 'Cause I was the one who held the money. They had to do the delivery. That was the model. It was like, I would fill a gym up, I would sell, I'd keep the money, and then they'd deliver on the services, and after that, they could keep the customers. That was kind of like the, the setup. And then another gym the next week said, "Hey, this guy made 100 grand out of my gym." The average gym owner makes $36,000 a year take home. It was like, "This kid from the internet took 100 grand out in a month. Screw that kid." And so he told all the customers who were there after we had left, "Hey, I'll keep delivering your thing. Refund him, just pay me half what you paid him." After-

   17. SBSteven Bartlett25:47

       So they cut you out.

   18. AHAlex Hormozi25:48

       Right.

   19. SBSteven Bartlett25:49

       (clears throat)

   20. AHAlex Hormozi25:49

       It was a flawed model. Like, I didn't understand, like, I didn't get it at that point. And so we had $150,000 in refunds that I had to cover, and I had no way of doing it. Mind you, like, (laughs) Layla's like, "We're gonna do this, I believe in you." (laughs)

   21. SBSteven Bartlett26:04

       (laughs)

   22. AHAlex Hormozi26:04

       And so I'm like, I'm like, "I can't sleep." I remember 'cause what would happen is, like, the more we sold, the more the refund, like, it was a vicious cycle, so I had to sell more to cover the refunds from the ones that were coming in. And so our sales were going up and it was just, like, I just, I couldn't breathe. And I was just, I would wake up at night... Anyways, and so I'm, like, writing down these ideas of, like, what I think I could do. And we had eight launches that were supposed to launch next month, so I said, "Hey, Layla, you have this little weight loss business." 'Cause she had her personal training business. She converted her on, her in-person clients to online during this whole process. So she was making, like, three or $4,000 a month, and mostly 'cause, like, I'm not stable. I'm, like, making all this big money and then losing it all, and then making it and then losing, and she's just, like, paying groceries and actually, like, making sure that I can eat. And I was like, "Tell me more about that." I was like, "What's your overhead? How much time does it take you?" And then blah, blah, blah. And I was like, "We're gonna t- we're gonna do your thing. We're gonna, we're gonna call it Queen Transformation, I'm gonna start running ads for it, and we're gonna take the sales team and we're gonna put it on your thing." And so within 14 days, she starts taking the phone calls 'cause she was a good salesman. Um, she's doing a thousand bucks a day online. No, no, all margin.

   23. SBSteven Bartlett27:07

       What was the product?

   24. AHAlex Hormozi27:08

       It was a 16-week, like, weight loss program that she-

   25. SBSteven Bartlett27:10

       Online?

   26. AHAlex Hormozi27:11

       Yeah, online, exactly. And so it was 500 bucks because she was selling two of them a day. And so I was like, "Man, if we get eight, eight guys going, we'll have 8,000 a day, 240 after ad spend." I was like, "I can make 150 in profit and, like, we'll be in the clear." So I called the eight guys that were supposed to launch the next month, uh, the gyms. So I get on the phone with the first guy and I was like, "Hey, we're going another direction. You know, we're gonna, we're gonna be a weight loss company, sell direct to consumer." And he was like, "Dude, you launched my buddy's gym, like, two months ago, and, like, he, he can't stop talking about you. It's, like, it's packed." Um, 'cause there, there are other gyms that everything (laughs) went fine with, just the ones that didn't is the ones that crushed the business. He's like, "I know you can do it. Um, and I just refinanced my house and I maxed out my credit cards to, to, to make this gym happen, and I, I, I'm gonna lose it." And given what I had been through up to this point, I was like, "That's tough, man." (laughs)

   27. SBSteven Bartlett28:03

       Mm-hmm.

   28. AHAlex Hormozi28:03

       Like, um, "Sorry about that." And then finally he was like, "Can you... Okay, instead of flying, can you just show me what you did to, to help my buddy out? Can you just give me, like, the system?" And since I was like, "I'm gonna get out of this gym business," I was okay, like, selling my secrets, and so I was like, "All right, man, I'll, I'll give you everything I have, but I'm not gonna fly out there to save your ass if you can't sell me." He said, "No, no, it's fine." And so I picked the highest number I could think of 'cause he already told me he was broke, so I figured I could just get him off the phone so we could move on, and I said "$6,000." And he was like, "Six grand?" And I was like, "Yeah," and he was like, "Oh, done." And I remember, like, looking at the phone and being like, "Holy shit, $6,000?" And I was like, "Oh, oh, what card do you want to use for that?" (laughs)

   29. SBSteven Bartlett28:47

       (laughs)

   30. AHAlex Hormozi28:47

       Wrote it on, like, a cardboard box, and then the next call I had the same thing, and I was like, "Well, shoot, I have to make this thing now," and I was like, same conversation, he's like, "How much?" I was like, "Eight grand." And he was like, "Yeah, okay." And I, each of the calls I was like, next call, same thing, 10 grand. Next call, same thing, 12 grand. And then the next, you know, at the end of the day, I'd sold $60,000 in, in licensing packages for all of the stuff that we did to do the turnarounds.
5. 34:26 – 37:30

   What's your area of expertise?

   1. AHAlex Hormozi34:26

   2. SBSteven Bartlett34:26

      What are you brilliant at? You know, you kind of-

   3. AHAlex Hormozi34:29

      Yeah.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett34:29

      You, you kind of come to learn what you're good at based on comparison-

   5. AHAlex Hormozi34:32

      Yeah.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett34:32

      But you kind of understand your area of e- expertise. What is your area of, of brilli- brilliance or expertise?

   7. AHAlex Hormozi34:37

      I really want to ask Caleb. Um. (laughs)

   8. SBSteven Bartlett34:40

      Caleb. (laughs) Where's Caleb? We can barely see.

   9. AHAlex Hormozi34:43

      (laughs)

   10. SBSteven Bartlett34:44

       So, Caleb sat over on the sofa in the corner of the studio. He's, um, a friend and creative director of Alex, and I'm asking Caleb what Alex is good at. What's his area of brilliance? I like it. Solving problems, um, for companies, simplifying complex things into more digestible, actionable, um, solutions as well. And how would you answer that question if you were answering it for yourself?

   11. AHAlex Hormozi35:14

       I feel like I fundamentally a lot of times don't understand the world, and so I think the reason that some people have found the content and things like that, um, good or useful is because they feel like they can understand it, and it's just because, like, I didn't get it. Right? Like, terms like value, right? People are like, "Provide more value." I'm like, "What does that mean?" And so I just make a, make an attempt to define the terms that a lot of us use every day, and then it makes it a lot easier to solve for those things in business. And so, you know, a lot of people are like, "I want to grow my business." I'm like, "All right, well, what does that mean?" Like, well, get more customers, make them worth more. Okay, so it's one of those two things. All right. Well, how do I make, get more customers? Like, well, there's eight ways to do it. Here are the eight ways. Which one do you feel like you're best at? And just, like, kind of thinking through frameworks that way is, is just for me, it's just been my way of being able to be relatively competent in a world that feels confusing. Like, there's a few things I feel like I can understand and I just hold on to those.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett36:06

       I mean, that's the very nature of innovation, isn't it? Like, asking the question. You know, we so, so, um, often in our lives just accept words and phrases and ways of doing things, then there's a few people who are really good, like Elon's one of them-

   13. AHAlex Hormozi36:19

       Yeah.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett36:19

       ... at just, like, asking why.

   15. AHAlex Hormozi36:21

       (laughs)

   16. SBSteven Bartlett36:21

       And then when you ask why, like, "Why can't you make an af- affordable, quote unquote, electric vehicle that is fast?" Everyone else says, "You can't." (laughs)

   17. AHAlex Hormozi36:27

       Yeah. (laughs) Right. But, like, why? (laughs)

   18. SBSteven Bartlett36:29

       But why? You know, and then he, he's great at breaking it down into, like, the core components of that innovation.

   19. AHAlex Hormozi36:35

       Yeah.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett36:35

       Said, "Well, if we buy the metal on the, the iron exchange and we do this and this, then we can do it."

   21. AHAlex Hormozi36:39

       Yeah.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett36:40

       There's, so that's such an important thing in entrepreneurship, isn't it? There's some people who just ask why-Naturally.

   23. AHAlex Hormozi36:47

       Yeah. So, it's like, to, to the point, like, to Elon, it's like, I don't understand why we can't.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett36:52

       Yeah. (laughs)

   25. AHAlex Hormozi36:52

       Like, just explain to me why we can't so that I cannot think about this.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett36:56

       Yeah. (laughs)

   27. AHAlex Hormozi36:56

       And I feel like that's, you know, the, I would say that that's the most common thing. Like, "Why isn't this company growing? Like, I don't get it. Like, w- explain it to me." And then usually, a lot of people, it's like they're, they're in this, caught in this loop, you know what I mean, of doing what they've always done, um, or, like, believing that this is the only way. Um, and I think a lot of times I've benefited from, like, not knowing, because I, my questions don't seem stupid to me, um, (laughs) but only to somebody who, like, knows what they're doing, um, it seems stupid. And so from there, we're able to, like, I guess to your point, innovate, um, just by being like, "I don't understand."

6. 37:30 – 42:46

   What makes a good entrepreneur?

   1. AHAlex Hormozi37:30

   2. SBSteven Bartlett37:30

      That's what Steve Jobs wa- fr- from everything that I've read about Steve Jobs and my brief conversation with Steve Wozniak once upon a time, um, is he was just the, the, the voice in the room that never understood why they couldn't. And even, like, when we think about him removing the keyboard and doing, you know, not, refusing to use a stylus, and all these other crazy things he did, not using JavaScript, I think, at the time, and changing the port and removing the iPhone jack-

   3. AHAlex Hormozi37:53

      Yeah.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett37:54

      ... that that is somebody who is so strong in their convictions in terms of, like, doing things a new way. How important do you think that is, generally? Like, what, in your view, what makes a really good, um, entrepreneur/leader?

   5. AHAlex Hormozi38:09

      I think that they have to have the power to influence, and that is across lots of things. Uh, just they have to be able to move other people. And you can define sales as the ability to get people to comply with your (laughs) requests. You can define leadership the same way. Um, management, marketing to a degree is getting people to comply with a larger request, you know, publicly. Um, but I think that fundamentally is a skill that people have to have if they're going to be successful at entrepreneurship. Um, they have to have tremendous drive, whether that's a combination of towards or away. So, they have a big mission that they really want to achieve, or they have some very big fear that they are running away from. Either way, I think the fuel works, uh, just from a pure entrepreneurship perspective. Um, third piece is impulse control, is that they have to be able to say no to things on a regular basis for an extended period of time. Um, and I think they have to be able to boil down the success of their business into inputs and outputs. Like, if you do not know the inputs that are going to get the output that you want, then what are you doing? And so I think for, for most entrepreneurs, like, if they have those things, if they have the ability to lead other people/sell, just influence, they have some big motivator, they can control themselves long enough to keep on going (laughs) during that period of time, and they are doing the right things, because they know the inputs and outputs, uh, to be successful or to create their o- the thing that they want, um, becomes a very difficult person to beat.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett39:30

      On that first point, then, sales.

   7. AHAlex Hormozi39:31

      Mm-hmm.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett39:32

      One of the things I, I, I read, um, in some of your work is this idea that if everybody just went and spent two years doing door-to-door sales, then-

   9. AHAlex Hormozi39:40

      Oh, my God.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett39:42

       Why is that important? Why, why do you think door-to-door sales is a key thing?

   11. AHAlex Hormozi39:46

       I think it's, um, just for w- for broader definitions for the audience, I think it's just high-volume transactional sales. So, whether that's you doing door-to-door, or you cold calling, um, or you working the front desk at a gym where you do 20 consults a day, like, just having a high volume. Because in order to learn a skill, you wanna have as much exposure as you can to repeat the action, and then you want quick feedback loops so that you can learn what you did wrong. So, the perfect scenario would be mentor/mentee, repeated exposure, fix this, try again, fix this, try again. And, um, in sales, if you can survive that long, then you are good enough (laughs) that you will have gotten enough feedback. Like, for most people, if they can weather the first three months of sales, then they'll usually be fine. And so for the people who are coming up, I, I always tell them, like, "Go shadow the best guy and do twice the volume he's doing, because you're not as good as him." So, like, do twice the volume that they're doing, work all of the hours, and you will get better faster, because you're doing ... You have to suck for X period of time. And so if you can condense how, how long that takes you in terms of calendar days, not hours, um, you can get there faster. But I think that it's important, because one, you have to learn how to get reje- rejected and still keep going, and I think that's a very valuable skill. And then two, there's lots of, like, little things that you learn in just interpersonal communication that allow you, that you can use with teammates later, you can use in marketing, because a lot of the best marketers started as salespeople, and marketing is just sales, one-to-many, at least as, as, as I understand it. Um, and so having that kind of repetition just develops a deep understanding of human psychology, I think. Um, and I think it's important for... if you wanna get people to give you money for the thing that you have. Um, having that as a base skill comes in handy.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett41:24

       I think a lot of people aren't orientated towards developing skills.

   13. AHAlex Hormozi41:29

       (laughs)

   14. SBSteven Bartlett41:29

       I think they're orientated to lifestyle, to what I can-

   15. AHAlex Hormozi41:32

       Yeah.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett41:32

       ... post on Instagram, to cool, whatever's cool. Um, but this idea of developing skills requires this thing that's kind of absent in modern culture, which is patience.

   17. AHAlex Hormozi41:43

       (laughs)

   18. SBSteven Bartlett41:43

       And a lot, like you said rejection. Who wants that? You know? (laughs) There was, there was no glamour in what you said, Alex.

   19. AHAlex Hormozi41:48

       Yeah. It's funny, 'cause a lot of us want traits, right? We wanna be patient, we wanna be humble, we wanna be, you know, long-suffering, whatever words you wanna use. Um, but in order to... if I were to say, "Hey, how would you create... if you had to create a human, what would you put them through to make them tough?" It probably wouldn't be-

   20. SBSteven Bartlett42:08

       It'd be nice.

   21. AHAlex Hormozi42:08

       ... a really chill life.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett42:09

       Yeah.

   23. AHAlex Hormozi42:10

       What would you put them through to make them patient? Well, you probably wouldn't give them things immediately. And so it's like we want these traits, but each of the traits has a price tag attached to it, and it's just like, do you want to pay the price tag to get the thing? And so I think if, if people reframed the, the, the period of life that they're going through as the price that they're paying out of their wallet, but their wallet is their time, it's the seconds of life that they're trading for it, then I think more people would be willing to make the trade. Because at least when I look at myself, like when I'm 80-something years old and I'm looking back on my life, I want to have these traits. But in order to have those traits, I know I have to go through these things. And I think for me, that's given me a lot of comfort in hard times.

7. 42:46 – 49:53

   Self-belief & self-doubt

   1. AHAlex Hormozi42:46

   2. SBSteven Bartlett42:46

      One of the things that, kind of a- adjacent to that-... which causes patience, is the belief that you are at some point gonna get there.

   3. AHAlex Hormozi42:53

      (laughs) Yeah.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett42:53

      So like, you know, it's all well in good you saying to me, "You do this for five years, Stephen, um, you'll build this skill."

   5. AHAlex Hormozi42:58

      Yeah.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett42:58

      But I go, "Well, listen, if I want to be a millionaire, um, and I, and I have low self-belief, I'm going to have low conviction, so I'm not even going to take the bet."

   7. AHAlex Hormozi43:05

      Yeah.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett43:06

      So how does one build that s- self-belief? Self-belief is such an interesting thing, 'cause it feels like this real y- it's clear to some degree that you had it in that moment of turmoil. And also, the reason I say to some degree is because it didn't seem like you had plan B anyway.

   9. AHAlex Hormozi43:19

      (laughs)

   10. SBSteven Bartlett43:20

       (laughs) So I'm like... You were already in your par- your, like, your parents-in-law, like, playroom or whatever, so... (laughs)

   11. AHAlex Hormozi43:27

       I had nothing to lose.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett43:28

       Yeah, you had nothing to lose. So I don't know how much self-belief is applicable. But-

   13. AHAlex Hormozi43:32

       Yeah.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett43:32

       ... regardless, to, to keep gracing those hurdles-

   15. AHAlex Hormozi43:35

       Yeah.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett43:35

       ... self, you need some kind of conviction that, like, this is the right way to go. How do people build that?

   17. AHAlex Hormozi43:40

       So I, I hear that, and to, like, to, to, to echo the point you just made, I hated my current existence. And so I think some people, like, don't hate their current existence enough. And so, like, I don't think you n- Like, you either have to really believe that this thing's going to happen, or you have to know that your life sucks. And I knew that my life sucked. And so I knew that if I s- did something else, it would have, it would have a higher likelihood of changing my life (laughs) than not doing something. And at least that's how I would say that I probably saw it in the beginning. It's like I didn't know if it was gonna work, but I knew that I wasn't going to stop.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett44:15

       I read a, I heard a quote some 10 years ago which rem- just came to mind when you said that, on some YouTube family vlog where he said-

   19. AHAlex Hormozi44:23

       (laughs)

   20. SBSteven Bartlett44:23

       ..."Change happens when the pain of staying the same becomes greater than the pain of making a change."

   21. AHAlex Hormozi44:28

       Yeah.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett44:29

       And in your situation there, it sounds like, well, this is less painful. (laughs)

   23. AHAlex Hormozi44:32

       100%. I think, and I think that's the basis of, of motion. Either you have to have a reward that is, that, that incentivizes you, or it's the away, towards or away. It's either we're going away from pain, or we're going towards pleasure. And I think a lot of people are really looking for that passion it's going to be towards. But I think early days, and I talk a lot about this, but, like, I think negative motivation is pooh-poohed too much. Like, if you are angry, use it. If you are sad, use it. Because, like, what else are you gonna do with it? Like, you might as well let it help you. Like, or it uses you, you know what I mean? And so I always liked to see, when I was in my earlier days, I felt like I was wielding my anger at least, in a direction. And I think also, a lot of people think that they have to get, like, it right on the first shot, but one of the beliefs that I had was that I just want to be directionally correct. Like, if I move, I f- like, I know that I don't like this, and so this way is not where I am, and so I will start taking steps this way. And from the story (laughs) that you at least heard, it's like, I'll ping-pong a little bit to try and directionally move that way. And it's funny, 'cause Caleb's seen plenty of things from what we do at acquisition.com where we're like, "We'll try it out," and if it doesn't work, then we're like, "Oops." (laughs)

   24. SBSteven Bartlett45:42

       Mm-hmm.

   25. AHAlex Hormozi45:44

       All good.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett45:45

       Do you believe in yourself?

   27. AHAlex Hormozi45:48

       I think that I have a high likelihood of repeating activities that I've done in the past. And up to this point, I have lots of evidence that would suggest that it, that I will continue.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett45:58

       Why didn't you say yes?

   29. AHAlex Hormozi45:59

       Um, because I based the answer on that question on what I've done before. And I think it's been, it's just based on evidence now. So it's just not like a, like, uh, charisma thing, at least for me. It's just like, "I've done these things, and so I think it's probable that I'll be able to continue."

   30. SBSteven Bartlett46:17

       Is there a deeper reason to why you didn't just say yes?
8. 49:53 – 1:02:17

   What’s your advice to take the leap?

   1. AHAlex Hormozi49:53

   2. SBSteven Bartlett49:53

      What does it take to want to do something, potentially for years, so that you can get, good at it? 'Cause you know there's gonna be people thinking, "Well, I want to be a great DJ, but I just can't find the motivation to spend every day, three hours practicing," Alex?

   3. AHAlex Hormozi50:09

      Yeah. Then, like, you probably won't be a good DJ. (laughs) But I'd be like, I would be like, you like your current state enough that you, like, the pain-of-change thing, right? Like, you're not in enough pain. I've said that to plenty of people. We go speak, and someone's like, "How do I get motivated?" I'm like, "You're not gonna get motivated." Like, you have to hate... For me, like, it al- it au- I automatically go there. I'm like, "You have to hate something." Like, for me, I just hated my current existence. And so for me, that was powerful enough to get me out.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett50:37

      There's gotta be another way, though. You know, I was thinking to you, that moment where you took the leap.

   5. AHAlex Hormozi50:40

      Mm-hmm.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett50:41

      You know? Uh, there's, I feel, I often feel like most people that listen to this podcast, often are at a point in their life where they're considering a leap.

   7. AHAlex Hormozi50:48

      Yeah.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett50:49

      Feel bu- like we dra- drag those type of people in. We kind of like, we're a magnet to those people. So if they, if they're in a situation-

   9. AHAlex Hormozi50:55

      Yeah.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett50:55

       ... that they don't like, but it's not that painful-

   11. AHAlex Hormozi50:57

       Yeah.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett50:57

       ... you know, it's comfortable-

   13. AHAlex Hormozi50:58

       Mm-hmm.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett50:59

       Well, that's the worst. It's comfortable, but a little bit miserable.

   15. AHAlex Hormozi51:02

       Yeah.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett51:02

       How do you get them to take the leap, when it's so comfortable? My boss is promising me a promotion.

   17. AHAlex Hormozi51:12

       I think about death all the time. It's like, I'm going to die, and I think you have to agitate the pain for yourself. Like, you have to stoke the pain. Like, if you can't get through, through... 'Cause, like, it would be, it, it would be odd if that you would be motivated by some weird passion, like, not everyone's Mozart and just like, "I just love music, and I've been r- I see in co- you know, see numbers and colors," you know, whatever. Like, some people are like that, but most people aren't. And so, if you're not that, then you only start really liking stuff when you get good at it, in my opinion, and you only get good at it by doing it a lot of times before you're good at it. (laughs)

   18. SBSteven Bartlett51:49

       Mm-hmm.

   19. AHAlex Hormozi51:49

       And so if you... This is why I'm a big, big believer in this, is that when you are starting out, I think you gotta find the thing that's the pain, and, like, pain motivates significantly faster and stronger than pleasure does. Like, people are like, "No, passion's the right way." It's like, point a gun at a family member. All of a sudden, 10 outta 10 motivation, pain. And so, like, I think people should use their pain more. And if they don't have enough pain, then one, maybe that's fine, and you're a dreamer and that's okay. But I will tell you that a word that I can t- I read in my, like, six-month journey between when I wanted to quit and when I actually quit, there was this word that just, like, pissed me off, and it was this, in this self-help or entrepreneur book, and it said, "There are entrepreneurs and there are wantrepreneurs." And I was like, and it was like, "Wantrepreneurs are people who read these books and don't do anything," blah, blah, blah, and I was just like, "I don't wanna be a w-" I was like, "I am one of these right now," and I just, it just, like, felt so powerless, and I think that my entire life has been a lot of trying to have power. And I mean that in the true sense of just being able to direct influence in events. Um, I've wanted to have more power to protect myself, protect the people I care about, et cetera. Um, and I felt very powerless, and I think that I was in that comfortable, like, my dad approves of my current situation. I had a job that, when I told people, they were like, "Oh, that's fancy." But I felt powerless, and I, I hated that more than anything. And so I think it, I think if... I want to say this to anyone who's listening. If there's anything you listen to, all the stuff that I described that was really tough, that I went through, was not as hard as me quitting my job. By far the hardest decision of my entire life, bar none. Because the things that I was actually caught up with were the opinions of other people, the opinions of my father and the opinions of the people that I went to school with, who I thought would judge me for leaving this good job to probably become a failed gym owner, and how lame that would sound, compared to consultant, going to Harvard, and blah, blah. Like, I was gonna go from peak white collar to a very blue collar, (laughs) you know, profession making significantly less, because I, quote, "loved it." And, like, eh, uh, I s- I'll say this again, but, like, sometimes you have to let other people's dreams for your life die for yours to live. And for me, it was like when I, when I continued to, every day, not want to wake up, that was my wake-up call, where I was like, "Either I continue to live this way and not want to be alive, or I just risk the fact that I will die to everybody else." And I think that that, like, it was the hardest decision of my entire life, by far. All the s- all the hard stuff we went through, still the hardest decision of my life.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett54:33

       How much was money on your mind when you made that decision?

   21. AHAlex Hormozi54:35

       (clears throat)

   22. SBSteven Bartlett54:36

       The desire to be financially free to the point where you had millions?

   23. AHAlex Hormozi54:40

       It's weird. Money, um... Caleb would know this. Money doesn't really motivate me. Uh, I would say that it w- I mean, I love the game, for sure, um, but I love playing the game and the tokens are there. Um-But for me, it was, it was, it was, it was beating my dad. You know what I mean? I didn't want him to be right. Like, that's what it was. Like, I didn't want him to be right. I just, I just, I remember, like I would, I'd be sleeping on the floor, I'd be miserable at, you know, when I had my gym and I had no trainers, I was teaching all the classes. And so I, I'd wake up, I'd do 4:00 AM, 5:00 AM, 6:00 AM, 7, 8:00 AM sessions, and then I would then, uh, work out for myself, and then I would, uh, do, uh, I'd do all the marketing and the ads and the stuff that I have to do in the middle of the day, and then I would teach the four- the 4:00 PM, the 5:00 PM, then skipping the 7:00 PM, and then I would do sales consults at 8, 9, 10, 11, and then I would do the billing for all the, all the contracts from 11:00 to like 12, 12:30, and then I'd wake up again. And I did that for like six months, and like I started to like lose my mind because I wasn't sleeping. Um, but even during like those times, I just literally I would vi- envision going back to Baltimore to my father, and have ... And knowing that he would give me the false modesty of like, "Oh, I know you tried. Don't worry about it. Now, let's get you back on this thing." And I knew that from that moment on, he would own me, and I just couldn't, I, I couldn't, I couldn't do it. I was like, "I will do anything but go back to that." And for me, that was my ... I, I would do anything. And so whatever that ... Maybe you need to agitate some pain in your life (laughs) you know, to get out of your current circumstance. Um, and just as a total side note, play it out, what if you just never do anything? Is th- Like, maybe some people just need to stop dreaming. Maybe they need to accept their current reality and actually enjoy it, because there's a lot of people when they're 70 and 80 and they didn't do their dreams, and if they went back, like, they didn't do anything, but that whole time they were dissatisfied because they didn't try. But what if they were just like, "I have a good life. I have a wife who loves me. I've got some kids. I have a job that I, you know, like, I don't mind it. It pays the bills." I mean, if you go back 500 years, there wasn't people who were like, "Man, this is my passion." It's like, "Dude, I'm just rowing, uh, rowing a boat across a ferry, and that's what I do, and that's what my dad did and his dad did." (laughs) Like, "This is how we eat." And so like, we have these, these, um, idealized versions of purpose that I think Instagram and all this stuff kind of make terrible, but like, I think there's a lot of honor in work, period. And I think a lot of people, uh, fool themselves by thinking that what they do for some reason is not honorable. And I think a lot of it is like the internal versus external scorecard of like, uh, w- I was saying what I was saying earlier about like I believe these things to be true about the universe or like the world, but it, a lot of those are like, "What do I believe about myself?" Which is like, "I can choose to do work in this way, which then I can derive joy from." So like if I'm shoveling shit, I can choose to be like, "I will be the best shit shoveler, because I believe that I will figure out how to do (laughs) this more efficiently and I will, you know, I will, I will get better and I will have callouses on my hands and I'll have a better back and whatever. Um, but I will do this well." And I think you can find joy in work if you decide to do it well. So on one hand, if you are, if y- if you are, if your dream causes you so much pain, then you will quit what you're doing and do it. And if it doesn't cause you enough pain that you're not pursuing it or that you don't f- Like, if you don't feel like you're in a cage right now, then maybe you're not in a cage, and maybe you just need to like the life you have, and that's cool too.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett58:12

       A previous guest on this podcast called Mo Gawdat said, "We're unhappy when our expectations of how we think life is supposed to be going are unmet." And in that, (clears throat) there's something very sort of linked to what you just said there, which is we have this external expectation set by Instagram or wha- whatever.

   25. AHAlex Hormozi58:29

       By people like us.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett58:30

       Yeah. (laughs)

   27. AHAlex Hormozi58:33

       (laughs) Basically. (laughs)

   28. SBSteven Bartlett58:34

       Who, who, who, um, are in a position of, um, financial freedom and have built an audience, who, you know, ha- um, admire those people for what they've achieved, and if someone wants to be admired they think, "Well, I need to be like Alex," right? Um, and that e- I could be working in a shop actually objectively, like subjectively having a great time in the shop, but I look up at Alex and go, "My life sucks."

   29. AHAlex Hormozi58:55

       Right.

   30. SBSteven Bartlett58:56

       And, and like, so in that, um, like, it's very difficult, um, because of ext- the, the pressure of external ... Like, I was just thinking when you said it, then I was thinking, this whole idea of like passion and purpose is probably like 60 years old. (laughs)
9. 1:02:17 – 1:08:05

   Death: putting things into perspective

   1. AHAlex Hormozi1:02:17

   2. SBSteven Bartlett1:02:17

      I saw your post about the Queen.

   3. AHAlex Hormozi1:02:19

      Yeah. (laughs)

   4. SBSteven Bartlett1:02:20

      (laughs)

   5. AHAlex Hormozi1:02:20

      That was, that was a stab at you. Yeah. (laughs)

   6. SBSteven Bartlett1:02:22

      No, no, no. There wasn't, it wasn't for me, if I'm being honest. (laughs)

   7. AHAlex Hormozi1:02:25

      (laughs)

   8. SBSteven Bartlett1:02:26

      Um, but, uh, but it's an interesting con- What did the post say? It was, do you remember that?

   9. AHAlex Hormozi1:02:30

      Well, she amassed more wealth than 99.99% of the world. She ruled for 70 years. Uh, was, you know, the f- a female monarch, which is insane, especially 70 years ago. Just, like, all the, she had amazing family, all this s- Amazing, whatever. I, I don't know the tabloids. You do. Um, and when I posted it, it had been, I think, five or six months since she had died exactly. And I was like, "You probably haven't thought about her today except for this post, and she probably accomplished more in her life than we probably will." So if you are afraid of other people thinking about you, just remember that six months after you die, they're not going to be. And so it's like we have all these fears about other people, but, like, most of them won't even show up to your funeral, 'cause they're gonna be busy. (laughs)

   10. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:15

       Mm-hmm.

   11. AHAlex Hormozi1:03:15

       And so, like, I, I think about death all the time, and that's, that's what, I think, for me, has given me a lot of, uh, freedom to take big shots. Because, like, at the end of the day, I think that it's not going to matter. No one's going to remember. People in Thailand don't know who I am today. (laughs) Let alone in five, 10 years, 100 years.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:35

       It's a trap that the mind can quite easily fall into, though, thinking you are the center of the universe, and with that comes an immense amount of weight and pressure and anxiety.

   13. AHAlex Hormozi1:03:42

       Totally.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:43

       I, I have a trick. I've never talked about this before, but whenever (clears throat) I feel myself slipping into the trap of kind of overstating my importance, and what I mean by that is, like, thinking my problems are big problems-

   15. AHAlex Hormozi1:03:56

       (laughs) Right.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:56

       ... I go on YouTube, and I type in, um ... There's this one video that shows a camera on Earth that just zoom out, and it keeps going, and eventually Earth becomes this tiny speck. Then Earth becomes this tiny speck which is the galaxy, then the galaxy becomes this tiny speck in a bunch of galaxies, then you can't see any of it anymore. And then also, this idea that, like, 100 years ago, I didn't feel anything, didn't think anything, nobody kn- knew me. 100 years from now, exactly what you said, absolutely. I mean, fucking five minutes after I die, I think, "Oh, phew." But, um, and that feels really liberating. It, like, relieves s- uh, stress from my body, which is a interesting thing, 'cause a lot of people don't like thinking about their death, you know?

   17. AHAlex Hormozi1:04:36

       I love thinking about it.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:37

       Yeah.

   19. AHAlex Hormozi1:04:38

       All the time.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:38

       I know from doing this podcast that a lot of people won't click if we, we post something about death. (laughs)

   21. AHAlex Hormozi1:04:43

       (laughs)

   22. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:43

       They won't, 'cause they don't even wanna confront the, the concept of it.

   23. AHAlex Hormozi1:04:45

       Oh, for sure.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:45

       Which is ...

   25. AHAlex Hormozi1:04:47

       People are afraid of it just 'cause they don't understand it. It's kinda like the hate thing.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:52

       How do you feel about death?

   27. AHAlex Hormozi1:04:53

       I'm good with it.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:56

       When you say, "I'm good with it," wh- what do you mean?

   29. AHAlex Hormozi1:04:59

       If I die tomorrow, I'm good with it. Like, I wanna leave it all on the field. I'm gonna try as hard as I can, and I know that no one will remember me on a long enough time horizon, and I'm good with that. Like, I'm cool with it.

   30. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:20

       If I told you you were gonna die tomorrow, would you be sad?

Episode duration: 1:56:19