The Man That Makes Millionaires: How To Turn $1,000 Into $100 Million!: Alex Hormozi | E235

Alex Hormozi 0:00 I'm gonna say some stuff that's gonna bother some people. People who are listening to this and are not making as much money as they want, they have to- Mr. Alex Hormozi, the 100 million dollar man.

Steven Bartlett 0:07 Entrepreneur, investor, and philanthropist.

Alex Hormozi 0:10 Taking the internet by storm.

Steven Bartlett 0:11 This guy really, really does understand how to build a business.

Alex Hormozi 0:15 I was 22. I had done everything that my dad had wanted me to do, and I was looking out from the condo that I'd been able to buy with this job that I had, and, um, I always hoped I wouldn't wake up the next day. I cherish the fact that it was so miserable that it got me to change. Pain motivates significantly faster and stronger than pleasure does. If you are angry, use it. If you are sad, use it. Or it uses you. I didn't know whether I would succeed, but I did know I wasn't going to stop. Right around that point is when I met my wife, and then she just changed my life.

Steven Bartlett 0:43 How did she change you?

Alex Hormozi 0:44 Like... Didn't think we were gonna go here. Um, (laughs) she just, she believed in me. She stood tall when everything in my life was crumbling around me. I was, like, dead broke in her parents' house, and I was like, "I, I think you should leave me." She pulled my chin towards her and she was like, "I would sleep with you under a bridge if it came to that." Six months later, I have $3 million in the bank account. All of that was the first nine months of our relationship. For her to have that kind of belief was, was very, um, it was deep for me, and I think that's what most guys want, truly.

Steven Bartlett 1:32 What makes a really good entrepreneur/leader?

Alex Hormozi 1:36 I'll answer this differently than I have in the past, and I'm gonna tell a story that hopefully people don't take the wrong way. But I had a cat.

Steven Bartlett 1:43 Before this episode starts, I have a small favor to ask from you. Two months ago, 74% of people that watch this channel didn't subscribe. We're now down to 69%. My goal is 50%, so if you've ever liked any of the videos we've posted, if you like this channel, can you do me a quick favor and hit the subscribe button? It helps this channel more than you know, and the bigger the channel gets, as you've seen, the bigger the guests get. Thank you and enjoy this episode.

Steven Bartlett 2:15 Alex, I spend several hours consuming all of your content across multiple channels. What is the aim? What is the mission? What is the, the intent if you were to try and summarize the content you're producing and the value you're trying to add and to who are you trying to add it to?

Alex Hormozi 2:38 To make business accessible for everyone. That was the mission of the company, and so our whole idea was we'll put everything out there, uh, for free, so no paywalls. So, there's, like, we have courses on the site, the books I have for 99 cents, um, so that anyone can get them, and, you know, we'll continue to produce as much as we can, and we share the learnings that we have from our portfolio companies in order to keep the stuff that we are putting out there relevant, new, fresh, cutting edge, because this is what's working today. And by doing that, it also brings other companies to us because they get value from the stuff, and our goal is always to hopefully provide more value to a company before they've ever spoken to us, um, like kind of pay for our self in advance is kinda, like, the thought process, even though we're buying in. Um, and that's, that was kind of the thesis when we started it. I didn't know if it was gonna work, uh, but it seems to have gone pretty well, uh, and it was just, kind of just, like, if we just give and keep giving and keep giving, we just focus on the value and delivering to the audience, um, it'll come back eventually.

Steven Bartlett 3:45 What are you giving them, and who are you giving it to?

Alex Hormozi 3:49 Entrepreneurs at all stages. Um, we've surveyed the audience. 25% of the audience, uh, has a business. 75% does not have a business, but wants to start a business, and so that's just kind of overall. Um, and then within that 25%, it's just kind of categories all the way up to, you know, business is doing 100 million plus a year, and so it's everyone. And so we try and... Or, one of the things that we talk about is, like, going wide and deep. It's like, how can we figure something that is relevant to somebody who's, you know, launching their first product and also make it accessible or interesting to somebody who's launching a new product line within a division of their conglomerate, right? And just trying to think about both people at the same time, which becomes more challenging, but it's also kind of fun.

Steven Bartlett 4:26 Kind of like a funnel, isn't it, in, in s- some respects. Um, that's exactly what I saw from your content. You're r- you're making great content that's helping people that are at the start of their journey or, you know, 100 ploys deep into their journey trying to figure out how to scale. You're making content that's bringing down some of the b- barriers, whether psychological or practical, to enable them to reach whatever dream they have. Let's go way upstream then. H- what do I need to know about you to understand the life you've led? Take me way back to your childhood and early context.

Alex Hormozi 4:59 Both parents are imm- immigrants to the US. Uh, Mother was born in France, came here. Fa- Father was born in Iran. Um, they met in medical school in Europe, uh, and then my mother brought him back with her (laughs) to the US, and then, uh, they had me, and, uh, they split. My mom had a lot of demons. She had a lot of things she struggled with when I was coming up, so I pretty much was raised by my dad. Uh, had no siblings. It was just me and my dad for... Until I was about 15. Um, he got remarried. It was a short stint in terms of, uh, how long I was, like, kinda in the house. You know, like, right at that stage is when you can drive, and-

Steven Bartlett 5:34 Mm-hmm.

Alex Hormozi 5:35 ... I was kind of on my own almost at that point. Um, soon as I could work and drive, I was kinda out of the house, um, and then from there, did the thing that most people try and do, which is, uh, I, I, I worked hard at school, mostly 'cause I just didn't want my dad to be upset with me, which was, uh, the main driver for most of my achievement and my career for the first half, um, was all just trying to gain his approval. Um, did all the things that I thought he would want me to. Uh-... got a job at a government contracting, uh, consulting firm, a defense contracting. It was space, cyber, and ISR. Uh, so it's intelligence, surveillance, and reconnaissance, uh, for the military. Sounded really cool, was less cool (laughs) when you were in it, um, and I was very, very sad, um, at that point in my life. And so, it was very much like I didn't... I always hoped I wouldn't wake up the next day. Um, and it was-

Steven Bartlett 6:28 Do you mean that?

Alex Hormozi 6:28 Truly.

Steven Bartlett 6:29 You really mean that?

Alex Hormozi 6:31 100%. 100%, 'cause I remember when I was looking at, um... 'Cause a lot of people have, like, rock top moments, sorry, rock bottom moments. I think I had more of a rock top moment, which was, um, I was 22. I had done everything that my dad had wanted me to do at this point. I was looking out from the condo that I'd been able to buy with this job that I had, and, um, I was like, "Is this it?" And the whole time, I just really didn't enjoy my life. Um, and it was just, you know, not wanting to wake up. And it was... The, the decision to leave Baltimore, which is where I was from, to quit that path to decide to start a business of my own was still, to this day, the hardest thing I've ever done by far. All the things we've been through to, to build what we have, the hardest decision was taking the leap for me. Uh, and it was because, like, I knew that my dad so much wanted me to do what I was doing 'cause he was so happy that I was doing everything (laughs) he wanted me to do at that point. And I had told him over and over again that I wanted to do this other stuff, and he's like, "Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, later. You know, later." Um, and so I knew that it would probably put a big dent in our relationship, um, if I left. But for me, it was actually confronting the fact that I didn't want to be alive anymore, which was the thing that gave me enough courage or whatever you want to call it, to actually make the decision to leave home. And so I started driving across the country. I mean, it took me six months to do this. Like, when I f- between when I decided I really wanted to do this and when I actually did it took me six months. And, uh, I called him when I was, like, halfway across the United States, and I was like, "I'm going to California. I'm gonna open a gym. I'm gonna get into fitness." And he was like, "Why are you so extreme?" And he, like, lost it, and then we didn't really talk much for a long time.

Steven Bartlett 8:25 When you started realizing that your life, um, was one where you didn't want to wake up-

Alex Hormozi 8:32 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 8:32 ... in the morning when you had that job in management consultancy-

Alex Hormozi 8:37 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 8:37 ... did you experience suicidal ideation? Is that what you're saying when you say, "I didn't want to, I didn't want to wake up into my life every day"?

Alex Hormozi 8:43 It was never... Like, I've never had a, like, "This is how I'd kill myself." Nope. Never had that. I just always... Like, the idea that I could not wake up the next day sounded good.

Steven Bartlett 8:55 When you look back in hindsight from that moment backwards, what are the series of decisions or the, the things that led you to find yourself in the position? And I ask that because there's a lot of people that can probably relate.

Alex Hormozi 9:05 Totally.

Steven Bartlett 9:06 And, and there's probably quite a consistent set of frog pads or stones that one has walking down, for whatever reason-

Alex Hormozi 9:15 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 9:16 ... that lead you to a position where you go, "What the fu- Whose life is this?"

Alex Hormozi 9:21 I think the, like, the one-line summary for me was that, like, I felt like I had to let my dad's dream die for mine to live. And I felt like my entire life it had always, up to that point, had been like, go to this school, do these studies. You know what I mean? It's, it's a common thing. Like, it's not like I had something that a lot of people don't have. Many people... And to be fair, I'm very grateful for the skills, discipline, et cetera, that that instilled in me, um, because I think you, you, you have the, the hard hand of an authoritarian, um, parent when you're growing up, and it teaches you a lot of skills. And then, you know, the flip side is if you have a very laissez-faire parent, like, you never learn those skills which then benefit you later. So, you know, who knows. Um, but for me, um, I knew that he just wanted me to be a doctor. That's what he was. That would've been his dream. I went to school as pre-med, um, and then I'd... Uh, it was like even changing my degree from pre-med to just a business degree was, like, a huge deal. Um, but he was okay with that as long as I followed, like, the business path. And so, when I did my two years of consulting, which is kind of the typical, like, two to four years you do consulting, and then you apply to go to business school, um, when I was going through that process, I was answering the question for, like, the Harvard MBA, and it was like, "How will Harvard MBA help your short and long-term goals?" And I sat there for, like, two days trying to answer the question, and I was like, "It just isn't. I want to start a business." And so that was when I kept trying to, you know, start that conversation with my dad, and it just wasn't really happening. Um, and so that's what... That was kind of the breaking point for me, was, like, I just felt terrible about my life, and I didn't, didn't like the way it was going. And I... For me, it was such a key point because the biggest line of reasoning I had for myself in order to convince myself to confront my father or at least disappoint my father or the version of myself that he wanted me to be was to say that, like, I have to be comfortable dying in his eyes. And a lot of people, like... And many people might think that was hyperbole, but for me, it was very true. Like, I, I knew that I would die in his eyes, and I did. Um, to give you context, so I had the gyms, and I opened up multiple after that. Got to about six locations, sold those. Started a gym turnaround business. Did that for two years. Um, all the while, we weren't really in t- you know, we were, like, okay in touch. Um, and then we started the licensing business, which is Gym Launch, and that's the one that, like, really took off. And we hadn't been super in touch, and, oh, I get a call out of the blue, and he wasn't, like, a cold call. You know what I mean? I was like, "This is weird." So I pick up the phone, and he's like, "You're gonna want to sit down for this." And I was like, "Okay. Uh, what's up?" I was thinking, like, cancer. You know what I mean? I'm just like, "What, uh, what is it gonna be?" He was like, "I'm sorry." And I was like, "For what?" He was like, "You know, everything." I was like, "Okay."And (sighs) I was very angry still, because... And this is what I told him. So I was like, I was like, "You know that point when people, like, get on stage and they accept the awards?" And mind you, at this point, I think we were doing... We were probably taking home one and a half million a month. You know what I mean? In take home, like, personal income from the license. It was a, it was a decent si-... Like, it was a... I'm not... You know, conglomerate, like, probably, but it was a decent sized business. And (sighs) I was like, "You know, when people get on stage and they accept awards for things, uh, like, the first thing they always say is, like, 'Hey, I just wanna thank my mom and dad for always believing in me.'" And I was like, "I'm not gonna say that." I was like, "'Cause you didn't." I was like, "You're only saying this now once everyone believed, because it's not belief anymore. It's fact. It's evidence." I was like, "So, you're..." I was like, "This apology means nothing to me." And, "Besides that, I stopped caring what you thought six years ago, which is why I left." And so I had... Like, that's (laughs) like, I, I could've just accepted it, and I, and I, I didn't do that. Um-

Steven Bartlett 13:10 How d'you feel about that?

Alex Hormozi 13:12 I prob- like, today I probably would've just said, "Thanks, I appreciate it." I know where he was trying. I... He was trying to extend an olive branch, um, and I just wasn't there. I was still seething. I was still very angry that I had not gotten any support during that process. And maybe that was very woe-is-me. Um, but I was still very angry at that point. And (sighs) you know, to give also a little bit of context, you know, his response to that was like, "Well, we'll see how long it lasts."

Steven Bartlett 13:37 You're joking.

Alex Hormozi 13:38 No. So like, my father and I, like... He has a very strong personality, and so do I, and we both think we're right.

Steven Bartlett 13:45 Are you angry about it now? Honestly?

Alex Hormozi 13:48 No. I mean, like, (sighs) I think I can still feel the emotions, but I feel like I've, you know, thought about it enough to say that I can logically say, "I think he absolutely did the best he could with what he had." He was a single dad, another country, raising a kid, trying to get that kid to fit in. And do the things that... Like, one of the things that I think my dad always wanted me to be able to do is like... 'Cause he's darker skin than I am. He's Middle Eastern. Um, he always wanted me to, like, have access to, like, the back rooms where, like, deals were made that he felt like he wasn't a part of, and so he just wanted me to have that. And so I think he just drove me as much as he could to, to get that. And it's just, like, when you're on the other side of it, like, all you feel is never succeeding. But I can appreciate it now in retrospect. Um, but it definitely was still... It hardened me a lot. But that hardness, I think, has, has benefited me a lot in business.

Steven Bartlett 14:47 I had someone on the, the podcast say a quote which I've never managed to forget. They said, "You've got to realize that everybody you encounter, everybody that does you wrong, if you were them, and you'd been through what they've been through, and you had their brain, you'd be doing the exact same thing."

Alex Hormozi 15:01 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 15:01 And it sounds... It's obvious in one hand, but it's also very, kind of, illuminating. That-

Alex Hormozi 15:05 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 15:05 ... think about the person that's wronged you the most. If you'd been through th- their shoes and you had their genetics-

Alex Hormozi 15:09 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 15:09 ... you'd be doing the exact same thing.

Alex Hormozi 15:12 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 15:12 Doesn't mean you have to let them off.

Alex Hormozi 15:13 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 15:14 But at least it, uh, invokes some empathy.

Alex Hormozi 15:16 Have you heard that, um, you cannot both hate and understand someone at the same time?

Steven Bartlett 15:20 T- True.

Alex Hormozi 15:22 Like, if you truly understand someone, then you can't hate them, because you understand why. Like, a lot of times, the hate is from th- the unknown and not... Like, 'cause you hate 'cause... I mean, you almost say it. You're like, "How could..." Like, it's, it's literally a statement of not understanding.

Steven Bartlett 15:34 Mm.

Alex Hormozi 15:35 Like, "How could you..." If you understood, then you would know how.

Steven Bartlett 15:38 And that resentment is a byproduct of just not understanding as well.

Alex Hormozi 15:41 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 15:41 I was just thinking about resentment that I've had in my life when I think someone's wronged me. That sense of injustice. You're right. How could... Yeah. Did-

Alex Hormozi 15:49 How dare you?

Steven Bartlett 15:50 Did you ever manage to get your fuel to burn less dirty? Are you

Steven Bartlett 15:54 burning less dirty now?

Alex Hormozi 15:55 Yeah, I think so.

Steven Bartlett 15:56 You think so?

Alex Hormozi 15:56 Yeah, I think so. I- my, my team tells me, um, that that's true. And if you look at, like... 'Cause I do have some older videos that I made from, like, you know, years ago. Um, and there's definitely a different vibe. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 16:08 (laughs)

Alex Hormozi 16:09 I'm, I'm significantly friendlier (laughs) now-

Steven Bartlett 16:11 I see.

Alex Hormozi 16:11 ... than I was then. Um, I mean, even the way I interacted with customers and, you know, the team was, like, purely fear-driven. Like, I was absolutely... 'Cause I didn't understand influence as well yet. Um, so only, only... And the stick I had was like, if I... If people are afraid of me, then they will immediately comply. And it's effective for short durations, but not for long durations. Um, and s-... But I didn't know any better at the time, and then I slow-... Yeah, that's when I... You know, right around that point is when I met my wife, and then she just, you know, changed my life. Um, and she started running all the businesses, and I'd see her, and everyone loved her. And I was like, "Man, (laughs) I should do more, more of that stuff and less of my stuff." Um-

Steven Bartlett 16:50 She changed your life?

Alex Hormozi 16:51 Oh, yeah, for sure. Bar none. I mean, she's, like, the best. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 17:00 How did she change you?

Alex Hormozi 17:02 She has brought out the absolute best in me, like, in, in just about every way. Like... Didn't think we were gonna go here. Um, (laughs) she just... She believed in me. And I think that's what most guys want, truly. At least for me, that's what I wanted or needed. I'll tell you a story to illustrate it. So (sighs) we met, talked for four hours on the first date, only about business, (laughs) 'cause that's all I wanted to talk about. And I pitched her on working for me. I was like, "Quit your job, work for me." And she was like, "I just met you." (laughs) Logically makes sense. She was a personal trainer. I had a bunch of gyms. And I was like, "If you're this good, you should totally work for me." She was like, "Well, let's, you know, let's see how (laughs) this goes." Um, and so I had this idea for the turnaround business, and it was right as I had five, five locations at that point, and I wanted to try this thing out. So I flew out, did three turnarounds, flew back-And they started working. And then, um, I sold all my gyms 'cause it was like, "Okay, this, this makes even more money." I took all the money and put it into, uh, this gym that one of the guys I was doing a turnaround with was like, "Dude, you'd just crush this. Like, I'm a really good operator." Instead of turning these gyms around and walking away with just the money, he's like, "You should just keep owning them, and I'll just fill up, fill them up behind you." So I could, I could launch one, two, three gyms a month, and then own them all. He's like, "You're leaving so much money on the table." I was like, "Okay." So we did this first launch. I put all the money in. He's like, "Of course, " he had financial difficulties, and I had to personally guaran- g- you know, personally guarantee the lease. Normal stuff. Um, and so I crushed this launch. And then I wake up one morning, I check the bank account, and, uh, it's completely empty. And I was like, "What's happening?" So I called him up and he was like, "Well, I know you're s- you're skimming from the business." And I was like, "What?" He's like, "I know you're, I know you're, you're skimming." I was like, "Um, um, h- we just what? No." Um, he's like, "Well, that was my half." Uh, and so, I was like, "What is happening?" So I, I printed all the bank, the bank statements. I went line by line, and I was like, "Let me, I'll, I'll walk you through all the bank statements. Let's just, let's get to the bottom of this." And I remember, we went, we sat to the meeting, and he was like, "I don't need to see that." And he pushed it off the table, and I was like, "Oh, okay." I immediately was like, "Oh, he, I just got fucked." (laughs) Like, and he'd already been indicted for fraud. Um, and I knew this getting into business with him, and it was just a big misunderstanding. And, you know, the saying goes, like, uh, when experience meets money, money gets the experience, and experience gets money. Um, very much loved that. And so after I had all my gyms, I sold them, put all the money in this thing, and then it all got taken. Um, and so I had nothing. And, um, Leila's with me at this point (laughs) for this, like, this exciting period. So I was like, "Okay." She's like, "Hey, you know, maybe we should keep doing these turnarounds instead of this weird launch-and-go thing you side- sidelined for." Uh, and I was like, "Okay, we'll do that." And so I was gonna launch a gym the next month. Um, and there was a guy who was local to that gym, and since I was refocusing, I was like, "All right, I'm gonna build all the infrastructure. I'll send the sales guy up to do this thing." And, uh, he crushed the launch. Did like, 120,000, which for us was a big launch, um, in like, three day- uh, in three weeks. And so now I'm at Leila's parents' house, because, uh, like, we don't really have a house at this point. Um, and I'm the guy that she met from the internet that she quit her job for, uh, who just lost everything. And, uh, I was, I was, I needed this 100 grand to come in from this launch, so that I could recapitalize. And the money wasn't hitting. I was checking the bank account. I was like, "Where is this money?" Like, and I, I could see the processing, the transactions, and it was all successful. I was like, "What's going on?" So I call the, the processor up, and I was like, "What's up?" And they, uh, they said, "It's a routine check." I was like, "I've been with you guys six years. There's never been a routine check." And they were like, "Call again later." And I was like, "Okay." So I call back the next day, next day, nothing. And then finally, it was Christmas Eve, and I owed this guy money for the commissions from the sales. And I was like, "I will not get off this phone until you send me the money that I am owed," and, uh-

Steven Bartlett 21:21 To the payment processor?

Alex Hormozi 21:22 Mm-hmm. And they were like, long story short, uh, "You were doing stuff in different locations, and I was running this all through a local gym business, even though I was all over the nation." And they were like, "This is a little irregular. We're just gonna hold on to this for six months."

Steven Bartlett 21:36 Shit.

Alex Hormozi 21:36 Right. Now, I owe the guy $22,000 in commissions. I, in total now, had $23,000. So I wired him the money, and I had $1,000 left. And it was December of 2016. And I was like, I screenshot it 'cause I still have the screenshot of my bank account. So I went from like, six gyms, turnaround business, all this stuff, to $1,000. And I was like, "This sucks." (laughs) And Leila had just got six of her friends to quit their job to come do this turnaround business with me. And they were starting two days later from the 24th, so the 26th of December, 'cause I had planned on getting this 100 grand in and then being able to launch six gyms, 'cause it took about, you know, whatever. Uh, it was $3,300 a day in cost to have six guys out there in the field selling, 3,300 a day that I did not have. And so I still had a credit card that had $100,000 limit on it. Um, and so I'm at her parents' house, like, in, in an extra bedroom, having lost everything. And the, my one Hail Mary play of this launch, the money did not come through. And I was like, "I, I think you should leave me." Um, I, I think I am a, a sinking ship right now, and I would respect you, like, we're cool if you wanna walk away. Like, we're good. Like, I won't think less of you. Like, I would walk away from you right now, 'cause this could, this has a very high likelihood of not going right." And, um, she pulled my chin towards her, and she was like, "I would sleep with you under a bridge if it came to that." And it's hard to comprehend, but, like, I had nothing. (laughs) You know? Like, for her to have that kind of belief was, was very, um, it was deep for me. So it was like, "Fuck it, let's go." (laughs) You know what I mean? And so then we, we launched the gyms doing $3,300 a day. And, uh, mind you, I had no way to process money still, so I'm collecting 60 to 80 contracts a day that I can't process. And so we're getting calls from customers like, "Hey, why haven't you run my card? Have- why haven't you run my card?" I'm calling all these processors just to be like, "Hey, can you plea-" And as soon as you get shut down from a processor, it's like a black mark. It's like going bankrupt for credit cards. Um, they're like, "Oh, no, something is weird. We..." They just won't. They have other people they can process the money for. Finally, I get like, a high-risk processor that does, like, porn and casinos and stuff to, like, give me... And they were like, "Yeah, so it's gonna be like, 8% processing, and we're gonna hold 10% as like, safeguard." And I was like, "Jesus, okay, yes." And they were like, "And we can only give you $50,000 as your limit." And I was like, "G-" I was like, "I need like, 200." And he's like, "Well..." And I got this on the 29th of January. So this whole time, 3,300 a day is running on this card, and I have no money, and I have no way to process it. (laughs) And 29th of January, I can run 50 grand. I run 50 grand in a day. And he's like, "But it's by month." He's like, "So February 1st, you can run another 50." So February 1st, I run another 50. That 100 covers my cost from the month before. And then-I get two more processors for 50, boom, boom, run those, and then, like, I got a third one, uh, or fourth one, like, two weeks later, and I was able to, like, start moving (laughs) things around. Um, and at the end of February, uh, we'd made like a $30,000 profit, and, um, I was like, "Okay, I think we might be out of this." And the next month, we did a little bit more, and I was like, "Okay, I think this is working." And then all of a sudden, Layla taps me on the shoulder one morning, and she's like, she, like, turns her laptop towards me, and it's our bank account, and it has all these negative transactions, like hundreds of them. And I was like, "What's going on?" She's like, "Well, all these clients are calling me saying that the gym that we did this launch at, month and a half ago, the guy got in his chair and was like, 'Hey, there's too many of you here,' like, 'just go home, just refund.'" 'Cause I was the one who held the money. They had to do the delivery. That was the model. It was like, I would fill a gym up, I would sell, I'd keep the money, and then they'd deliver on the services, and after that, they could keep the customers. That was kind of like the, the setup. And then another gym the next week said, "Hey, this guy made 100 grand out of my gym." The average gym owner makes $36,000 a year take home. It was like, "This kid from the internet took 100 grand out in a month. Screw that kid." And so he told all the customers who were there after we had left, "Hey, I'll keep delivering your thing. Refund him, just pay me half what you paid him." After-

Steven Bartlett 25:47 So they cut you out.

Alex Hormozi 25:48 Right.

Steven Bartlett 25:49 (clears throat)

Alex Hormozi 25:49 It was a flawed model. Like, I didn't understand, like, I didn't get it at that point. And so we had $150,000 in refunds that I had to cover, and I had no way of doing it. Mind you, like, (laughs) Layla's like, "We're gonna do this, I believe in you." (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 26:04 (laughs)

Alex Hormozi 26:04 And so I'm like, I'm like, "I can't sleep." I remember 'cause what would happen is, like, the more we sold, the more the refund, like, it was a vicious cycle, so I had to sell more to cover the refunds from the ones that were coming in. And so our sales were going up and it was just, like, I just, I couldn't breathe. And I was just, I would wake up at night... Anyways, and so I'm, like, writing down these ideas of, like, what I think I could do. And we had eight launches that were supposed to launch next month, so I said, "Hey, Layla, you have this little weight loss business." 'Cause she had her personal training business. She converted her on, her in-person clients to online during this whole process. So she was making, like, three or $4,000 a month, and mostly 'cause, like, I'm not stable. I'm, like, making all this big money and then losing it all, and then making it and then losing, and she's just, like, paying groceries and actually, like, making sure that I can eat. And I was like, "Tell me more about that." I was like, "What's your overhead? How much time does it take you?" And then blah, blah, blah. And I was like, "We're gonna t- we're gonna do your thing. We're gonna, we're gonna call it Queen Transformation, I'm gonna start running ads for it, and we're gonna take the sales team and we're gonna put it on your thing." And so within 14 days, she starts taking the phone calls 'cause she was a good salesman. Um, she's doing a thousand bucks a day online. No, no, all margin.

Steven Bartlett 27:07 What was the product?

Alex Hormozi 27:08 It was a 16-week, like, weight loss program that she-

Steven Bartlett 27:10 Online?

Alex Hormozi 27:11 Yeah, online, exactly. And so it was 500 bucks because she was selling two of them a day. And so I was like, "Man, if we get eight, eight guys going, we'll have 8,000 a day, 240 after ad spend." I was like, "I can make 150 in profit and, like, we'll be in the clear." So I called the eight guys that were supposed to launch the next month, uh, the gyms. So I get on the phone with the first guy and I was like, "Hey, we're going another direction. You know, we're gonna, we're gonna be a weight loss company, sell direct to consumer." And he was like, "Dude, you launched my buddy's gym, like, two months ago, and, like, he, he can't stop talking about you. It's, like, it's packed." Um, 'cause there, there are other gyms that everything (laughs) went fine with, just the ones that didn't is the ones that crushed the business. He's like, "I know you can do it. Um, and I just refinanced my house and I maxed out my credit cards to, to, to make this gym happen, and I, I, I'm gonna lose it." And given what I had been through up to this point, I was like, "That's tough, man." (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 28:03 Mm-hmm.

Alex Hormozi 28:03 Like, um, "Sorry about that." And then finally he was like, "Can you... Okay, instead of flying, can you just show me what you did to, to help my buddy out? Can you just give me, like, the system?" And since I was like, "I'm gonna get out of this gym business," I was okay, like, selling my secrets, and so I was like, "All right, man, I'll, I'll give you everything I have, but I'm not gonna fly out there to save your ass if you can't sell me." He said, "No, no, it's fine." And so I picked the highest number I could think of 'cause he already told me he was broke, so I figured I could just get him off the phone so we could move on, and I said "$6,000." And he was like, "Six grand?" And I was like, "Yeah," and he was like, "Oh, done." And I remember, like, looking at the phone and being like, "Holy shit, $6,000?" And I was like, "Oh, oh, what card do you want to use for that?" (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 28:47 (laughs)

Alex Hormozi 28:47 Wrote it on, like, a cardboard box, and then the next call I had the same thing, and I was like, "Well, shoot, I have to make this thing now," and I was like, same conversation, he's like, "How much?" I was like, "Eight grand." And he was like, "Yeah, okay." And I, each of the calls I was like, next call, same thing, 10 grand. Next call, same thing, 12 grand. And then the next, you know, at the end of the day, I'd sold $60,000 in, in licensing packages for all of the stuff that we did to do the turnarounds.

Steven Bartlett 29:10 Is that monthly or is that just one payment?

Alex Hormozi 29:12 It was a, it was a, it was a, I didn't even have any, I was just like, "I'm just giving you everything I do."

Steven Bartlett 29:15 Yeah, sure.

Alex Hormozi 29:16 Yeah, it, it became (laughs) more of, like, more...

Steven Bartlett 29:19 (laughs) Yeah.

Alex Hormozi 29:19 Uh, it became a recurring model over time, but, um-

Steven Bartlett 29:21 It was a PDF or something.

Narrator 29:23 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 29:23 Yeah. (laughs)

Alex Hormozi 29:23 Um, it was actually all my internal stuff, so it was like what I used to train my sales teams that would fly out and, like, what I would use to train them on how to do nutrition orientation. Like, it was all the internal stuff.

Steven Bartlett 29:31 Right.

Alex Hormozi 29:31 The only thing I actually made external was I had to create the, uh, the advertising material, so I had to basically make a white label landing page for the gyms so that they could put their logo on, and then I gave th- I licensed them the ads themselves that we already knew converted.

Steven Bartlett 29:45 Right.

Alex Hormozi 29:45 So, like, the videos, the copy, everything. They used, like, videos of me that we knew converted, and I taught them how to run them, and then that's, that's when it did it. And, uh, we made $60,000 in a day, and I, like, Layla came in from doing her two sales for weight loss, and I was like, "I think we're still in the gym business." And she was like, "What? I thought we were doing weight loss. Like, you just told me, you sold me on weight loss being, like, the next thing." (laughs) And I was like, "I just, I just think we were doing it wrong." And so I explained what had happened, and she's like, "So is this what we're gonna do now?" And I was like, "I guess." I was like, "I can call the other 30 gyms that we did the turnarounds for," I was like, "they know we can do it 'cause we just did it for them." And so I called all those guys up and we did, like, $300,000 in sales that month and it was basically all profit, and I covered the refunds and I covered the everything, and we were, like, in the clear. And then, and then it was just, and then all those gyms that we did th- that we sold-The average gym did, uh, $30,000 in extra cash collected in their first month using our, our system. And so the key was that, like, if they didn't have to pay the overhead of the sales guy who was there every day at the hotel, the commission for that guy, like, the rental car, the per diem, like all the stuff that you have to incentivize and just, like, rented out of their own gym and worked the lease themselves, it became incredibly profitable, uh, for them. And, um, and then it just took off like wildfire. Like, we went from, like, our first full c- 12 months of, uh, like January to January, uh, we did 26 million top line.

Steven Bartlett 31:13 Wow.

Alex Hormozi 31:14 17 million in EBITDA our first 12 month. Like, it was, it was insane. Like, it's hard to comprehend that. Like, I, like, that was the, the moment I had been, like, dead broke in her parents' house (laughs) and then, like, six months later, I have $3 million in the bank account. And then, like, 12 months after that, I've got, like, 20 mil- I was, it was, it was insane. And, um, I didn't even know how you could pay taxes. Like, I didn't s- like (laughs) I was figuring all this stuff out, but through that whole thing, Layla was just like, "You can do this. Like, we can do this. Like, we've got this." Um, and I think sometimes you just need one voice behind you that just, just keeps believing.

Steven Bartlett 31:53 What happened then? So that's 2016. Um, you turned things around-

Alex Hormozi 31:57 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 31:57 ... over the next couple of years.

Alex Hormozi 31:58 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 31:58 What happened to, uh, you know, leading up to where we are today in terms of your business?

Alex Hormozi 32:02 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 32:02 Can you give me a top line summary in terms of what's happened?

Alex Hormozi 32:04 Yeah, I'll give you the TL;DR. Um, continued to grow Gym Launch. Uh, two years later, we started a supplement company called Prestige Labs. At this point, we had thousands of gym owners that had licensed, uh, the business model and the ads and all the stuff that we were doing, and so we sold through that distribution base. That company grew pretty g- pretty big, pretty quickly. Um, a year after that, we started a software company that, um, also helped gyms get leads in the door as just, like, an automated l- lead thing. And then, um, 2021, we sold all three of those companies. Uh, the supplement and the licensing company we sold to American Pacific Group, which is a private equity firm out of, uh, San Francisco for, uh, 46.2 million. For, uh, we sold two thirds of the company. And then, um, the software company we actually sold to a strategic buyer who had, like, a massive base and which had a better monetization system than they did. Um, and that was an all stock deal. Um, so we're just, it's continuing to grow under their umbrella and they'll probably sell in four or five years. Um, but from that and what we had taken in dividends, um, during the licensing business for the five years that it was rock- I mean, still is g- rocking and rolling, um, we started acquisition.com. So that became kind of our family office. And so we started our first investments, I think the first investments we did was in 2020, so there is some overlap there. Um, and part of the reason that I was willing to sell it was because they were, the investments, the first three or four investments we did, did really well. Um, and I was like, "Okay, I, this is what I want to do as the next thing." 'Cause I'd, you know, I didn't want to be the gym guy for the rest of my life, um, because I'd been, you know, at this point it had been, I think, more than a decade, um, that I'd been from, like, sleeping on the gym floor to having multiple occasions, to doing the turnaround business, to doing the licensing. Like, I'd been in that game for a long time and I think that maybe I could have stayed there and could have just continued to compound it and start doing acquisitions under that fitness umbrella, but I wanted to do more general business stuff. And so that was, uh, that's what we did. And so, uh, now we, now we buy chunks of companies, usually, uh, usually minority stakes 25 to 49-ish percent. I mean, we have one that we're in the talks of, that we were originally a minority stake in and we're gonna take majority 'cause it's been a great company and they wanna... The founder, in the same position as I was, like, just wants to do other stuff and it's a great business. Um, and so, but that's kind of how we h- we see it as, like, growth partners. Um, we come in, we write a check, we add value, we help grow the business.

Steven Bartlett 34:26 What are you brilliant at? You know, you kind of-

Alex Hormozi 34:29 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 34:29 You, you kind of come to learn what you're good at based on comparison-

Alex Hormozi 34:32 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 34:32 But you kind of understand your area of e- expertise. What is your area of, of brilli- brilliance or expertise?

Alex Hormozi 34:37 I really want to ask Caleb. Um. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 34:40 Caleb. (laughs) Where's Caleb? We can barely see.

Alex Hormozi 34:43 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 34:44 So, Caleb sat over on the sofa in the corner of the studio. He's, um, a friend and creative director of Alex, and I'm asking Caleb what Alex is good at. What's his area of brilliance? I like it. Solving problems, um, for companies, simplifying complex things into more digestible, actionable, um, solutions as well. And how would you answer that question if you were answering it for yourself?

Alex Hormozi 35:14 I feel like I fundamentally a lot of times don't understand the world, and so I think the reason that some people have found the content and things like that, um, good or useful is because they feel like they can understand it, and it's just because, like, I didn't get it. Right? Like, terms like value, right? People are like, "Provide more value." I'm like, "What does that mean?" And so I just make a, make an attempt to define the terms that a lot of us use every day, and then it makes it a lot easier to solve for those things in business. And so, you know, a lot of people are like, "I want to grow my business." I'm like, "All right, well, what does that mean?" Like, well, get more customers, make them worth more. Okay, so it's one of those two things. All right. Well, how do I make, get more customers? Like, well, there's eight ways to do it. Here are the eight ways. Which one do you feel like you're best at? And just, like, kind of thinking through frameworks that way is, is just for me, it's just been my way of being able to be relatively competent in a world that feels confusing. Like, there's a few things I feel like I can understand and I just hold on to those.

Steven Bartlett 36:06 I mean, that's the very nature of innovation, isn't it? Like, asking the question. You know, we so, so, um, often in our lives just accept words and phrases and ways of doing things, then there's a few people who are really good, like Elon's one of them-

Alex Hormozi 36:19 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 36:19 ... at just, like, asking why.

Alex Hormozi 36:21 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 36:21 And then when you ask why, like, "Why can't you make an af- affordable, quote unquote, electric vehicle that is fast?" Everyone else says, "You can't." (laughs)

Alex Hormozi 36:27 Yeah. (laughs) Right. But, like, why? (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 36:29 But why? You know, and then he, he's great at breaking it down into, like, the core components of that innovation.

Alex Hormozi 36:35 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 36:35 Said, "Well, if we buy the metal on the, the iron exchange and we do this and this, then we can do it."

Alex Hormozi 36:39 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 36:40 There's, so that's such an important thing in entrepreneurship, isn't it? There's some people who just ask why-Naturally.

Alex Hormozi 36:47 Yeah. So, it's like, to, to the point, like, to Elon, it's like, I don't understand why we can't.

Steven Bartlett 36:52 Yeah. (laughs)

Alex Hormozi 36:52 Like, just explain to me why we can't so that I cannot think about this.

Steven Bartlett 36:56 Yeah. (laughs)

Alex Hormozi 36:56 And I feel like that's, you know, the, I would say that that's the most common thing. Like, "Why isn't this company growing? Like, I don't get it. Like, w- explain it to me." And then usually, a lot of people, it's like they're, they're in this, caught in this loop, you know what I mean, of doing what they've always done, um, or, like, believing that this is the only way. Um, and I think a lot of times I've benefited from, like, not knowing, because I, my questions don't seem stupid to me, um, (laughs) but only to somebody who, like, knows what they're doing, um, it seems stupid. And so from there, we're able to, like, I guess to your point, innovate, um, just by being like, "I don't understand."

Steven Bartlett 37:30 That's what Steve Jobs wa- fr- from everything that I've read about Steve Jobs and my brief conversation with Steve Wozniak once upon a time, um, is he was just the, the, the voice in the room that never understood why they couldn't. And even, like, when we think about him removing the keyboard and doing, you know, not, refusing to use a stylus, and all these other crazy things he did, not using JavaScript, I think, at the time, and changing the port and removing the iPhone jack-

Alex Hormozi 37:53 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 37:54 ... that that is somebody who is so strong in their convictions in terms of, like, doing things a new way. How important do you think that is, generally? Like, what, in your view, what makes a really good, um, entrepreneur/leader?

Alex Hormozi 38:09 I think that they have to have the power to influence, and that is across lots of things. Uh, just they have to be able to move other people. And you can define sales as the ability to get people to comply with your (laughs) requests. You can define leadership the same way. Um, management, marketing to a degree is getting people to comply with a larger request, you know, publicly. Um, but I think that fundamentally is a skill that people have to have if they're going to be successful at entrepreneurship. Um, they have to have tremendous drive, whether that's a combination of towards or away. So, they have a big mission that they really want to achieve, or they have some very big fear that they are running away from. Either way, I think the fuel works, uh, just from a pure entrepreneurship perspective. Um, third piece is impulse control, is that they have to be able to say no to things on a regular basis for an extended period of time. Um, and I think they have to be able to boil down the success of their business into inputs and outputs. Like, if you do not know the inputs that are going to get the output that you want, then what are you doing? And so I think for, for most entrepreneurs, like, if they have those things, if they have the ability to lead other people/sell, just influence, they have some big motivator, they can control themselves long enough to keep on going (laughs) during that period of time, and they are doing the right things, because they know the inputs and outputs, uh, to be successful or to create their o- the thing that they want, um, becomes a very difficult person to beat.

Steven Bartlett 39:30 On that first point, then, sales.

Alex Hormozi 39:31 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 39:32 One of the things I, I, I read, um, in some of your work is this idea that if everybody just went and spent two years doing door-to-door sales, then-

Alex Hormozi 39:40 Oh, my God.

Steven Bartlett 39:42 Why is that important? Why, why do you think door-to-door sales is a key thing?

Alex Hormozi 39:46 I think it's, um, just for w- for broader definitions for the audience, I think it's just high-volume transactional sales. So, whether that's you doing door-to-door, or you cold calling, um, or you working the front desk at a gym where you do 20 consults a day, like, just having a high volume. Because in order to learn a skill, you wanna have as much exposure as you can to repeat the action, and then you want quick feedback loops so that you can learn what you did wrong. So, the perfect scenario would be mentor/mentee, repeated exposure, fix this, try again, fix this, try again. And, um, in sales, if you can survive that long, then you are good enough (laughs) that you will have gotten enough feedback. Like, for most people, if they can weather the first three months of sales, then they'll usually be fine. And so for the people who are coming up, I, I always tell them, like, "Go shadow the best guy and do twice the volume he's doing, because you're not as good as him." So, like, do twice the volume that they're doing, work all of the hours, and you will get better faster, because you're doing ... You have to suck for X period of time. And so if you can condense how, how long that takes you in terms of calendar days, not hours, um, you can get there faster. But I think that it's important, because one, you have to learn how to get reje- rejected and still keep going, and I think that's a very valuable skill. And then two, there's lots of, like, little things that you learn in just interpersonal communication that allow you, that you can use with teammates later, you can use in marketing, because a lot of the best marketers started as salespeople, and marketing is just sales, one-to-many, at least as, as, as I understand it. Um, and so having that kind of repetition just develops a deep understanding of human psychology, I think. Um, and I think it's important for... if you wanna get people to give you money for the thing that you have. Um, having that as a base skill comes in handy.

Steven Bartlett 41:24 I think a lot of people aren't orientated towards developing skills.

Alex Hormozi 41:29 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 41:29 I think they're orientated to lifestyle, to what I can-

Alex Hormozi 41:32 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 41:32 ... post on Instagram, to cool, whatever's cool. Um, but this idea of developing skills requires this thing that's kind of absent in modern culture, which is patience.

Alex Hormozi 41:43 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 41:43 And a lot, like you said rejection. Who wants that? You know? (laughs) There was, there was no glamour in what you said, Alex.

Alex Hormozi 41:48 Yeah. It's funny, 'cause a lot of us want traits, right? We wanna be patient, we wanna be humble, we wanna be, you know, long-suffering, whatever words you wanna use. Um, but in order to... if I were to say, "Hey, how would you create... if you had to create a human, what would you put them through to make them tough?" It probably wouldn't be-

Steven Bartlett 42:08 It'd be nice.

Alex Hormozi 42:08 ... a really chill life.

Steven Bartlett 42:09 Yeah.

Alex Hormozi 42:10 What would you put them through to make them patient? Well, you probably wouldn't give them things immediately. And so it's like we want these traits, but each of the traits has a price tag attached to it, and it's just like, do you want to pay the price tag to get the thing? And so I think if, if people reframed the, the, the period of life that they're going through as the price that they're paying out of their wallet, but their wallet is their time, it's the seconds of life that they're trading for it, then I think more people would be willing to make the trade. Because at least when I look at myself, like when I'm 80-something years old and I'm looking back on my life, I want to have these traits. But in order to have those traits, I know I have to go through these things. And I think for me, that's given me a lot of comfort in hard times.

Steven Bartlett 42:46 One of the things that, kind of a- adjacent to that-... which causes patience, is the belief that you are at some point gonna get there.

Alex Hormozi 42:53 (laughs) Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 42:53 So like, you know, it's all well in good you saying to me, "You do this for five years, Stephen, um, you'll build this skill."

Alex Hormozi 42:58 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 42:58 But I go, "Well, listen, if I want to be a millionaire, um, and I, and I have low self-belief, I'm going to have low conviction, so I'm not even going to take the bet."

Alex Hormozi 43:05 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 43:06 So how does one build that s- self-belief? Self-belief is such an interesting thing, 'cause it feels like this real y- it's clear to some degree that you had it in that moment of turmoil. And also, the reason I say to some degree is because it didn't seem like you had plan B anyway.

Alex Hormozi 43:19 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 43:20 (laughs) So I'm like... You were already in your par- your, like, your parents-in-law, like, playroom or whatever, so... (laughs)

Alex Hormozi 43:27 I had nothing to lose.

Steven Bartlett 43:28 Yeah, you had nothing to lose. So I don't know how much self-belief is applicable. But-

Alex Hormozi 43:32 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 43:32 ... regardless, to, to keep gracing those hurdles-

Alex Hormozi 43:35 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 43:35 ... self, you need some kind of conviction that, like, this is the right way to go. How do people build that?

Alex Hormozi 43:40 So I, I hear that, and to, like, to, to, to echo the point you just made, I hated my current existence. And so I think some people, like, don't hate their current existence enough. And so, like, I don't think you n- Like, you either have to really believe that this thing's going to happen, or you have to know that your life sucks. And I knew that my life sucked. And so I knew that if I s- did something else, it would have, it would have a higher likelihood of changing my life (laughs) than not doing something. And at least that's how I would say that I probably saw it in the beginning. It's like I didn't know if it was gonna work, but I knew that I wasn't going to stop.

Steven Bartlett 44:15 I read a, I heard a quote some 10 years ago which rem- just came to mind when you said that, on some YouTube family vlog where he said-

Alex Hormozi 44:23 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 44:23 ..."Change happens when the pain of staying the same becomes greater than the pain of making a change."

Alex Hormozi 44:28 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 44:29 And in your situation there, it sounds like, well, this is less painful. (laughs)

Alex Hormozi 44:32 100%. I think, and I think that's the basis of, of motion. Either you have to have a reward that is, that, that incentivizes you, or it's the away, towards or away. It's either we're going away from pain, or we're going towards pleasure. And I think a lot of people are really looking for that passion it's going to be towards. But I think early days, and I talk a lot about this, but, like, I think negative motivation is pooh-poohed too much. Like, if you are angry, use it. If you are sad, use it. Because, like, what else are you gonna do with it? Like, you might as well let it help you. Like, or it uses you, you know what I mean? And so I always liked to see, when I was in my earlier days, I felt like I was wielding my anger at least, in a direction. And I think also, a lot of people think that they have to get, like, it right on the first shot, but one of the beliefs that I had was that I just want to be directionally correct. Like, if I move, I f- like, I know that I don't like this, and so this way is not where I am, and so I will start taking steps this way. And from the story (laughs) that you at least heard, it's like, I'll ping-pong a little bit to try and directionally move that way. And it's funny, 'cause Caleb's seen plenty of things from what we do at acquisition.com where we're like, "We'll try it out," and if it doesn't work, then we're like, "Oops." (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 45:42 Mm-hmm.

Alex Hormozi 45:44 All good.

Steven Bartlett 45:45 Do you believe in yourself?

Alex Hormozi 45:48 I think that I have a high likelihood of repeating activities that I've done in the past. And up to this point, I have lots of evidence that would suggest that it, that I will continue.

Steven Bartlett 45:58 Why didn't you say yes?

Alex Hormozi 45:59 Um, because I based the answer on that question on what I've done before. And I think it's been, it's just based on evidence now. So it's just not like a, like, uh, charisma thing, at least for me. It's just like, "I've done these things, and so I think it's probable that I'll be able to continue."

Steven Bartlett 46:17 Is there a deeper reason to why you didn't just say yes?

Alex Hormozi 46:22 That's actually how I think about it.

Steven Bartlett 46:25 Is that because it s- feels difficult to say you believe in yourself?

Alex Hormozi 46:29 Yeah, it feels weird. I don't know if hokey is the right word, um, for what that feels like for me. But, like, saying the way that I said it is how I, is how I feel about it.

Steven Bartlett 46:40 H- have you been on a journey of, in terms of self-doubt, over, over the last, you know, 30 years?

Alex Hormozi 46:47 For sure. I think it was, um... But I mean, fear was my big, fear and anger, hand-in-hand, were my big motivators in the beginning. And I mean, maybe that's from self-doubt. But I would say that there, I w- I was very certain, and I can, I can, I've, I can feel this, and I, I remember this. Um, I was always certain that I wasn't going to stop. Like, that I can... I didn't know, I didn't know whether I would succeed. I thought it was probable. But I did know I wasn't going to stop. And so for me, that was, like, enough to get me going, or keep me going, 'cause, like, what are the controllables? Me. Okay. Well, if I do this... So, like, I'm big on making, like, unreasonable, like, unreasonable that it doesn't work out statements, which is like, "If I do sales, (laughs) and I do more volume than everyone else on this team, and I've shadowed the guy who's the best, and I do that for five years, it's unreasonable that I won't be at least mediocre. It will be probable that I'm above average. And it's also probable that I'll learn other things along the way. And I'll also have the resources at that point in five years that I can jump into things now that I have more context or perspective from which to make a judgment on what a good next opportunity is." And so I like very easy-to-believe statements, and then having the input-output equation being, like, the output is that I will be a very good salesman. The inputs is that I have to do, I have to collect 5,000 nos. If I collect 5,000 nos, I'll be a very good salesman. And that, for me, like, when I was a kid and when I played video games, I would beat the same level over and over and over again, so that when I got to the next level, I would crush everybody, 'cause I had all the experience points maxed out. And so, like, those input-output equations are really helpful for me. Like when I took the GMAT to get into Harvard, my first score was, like, okay, it wasn't great. Um, but I had, I read this study on how to do well on standardized tests. And they had this graph, and it went like this. It was just a straight line. It said, "Number of problems practiced on, GMAT score." So, like, the more problems you did, on average, the higher your test score was.... and I was, like, done. So I bought 16 phone books of, like, they're, like, these thick, like, test prep books, and I did four hours of problems every day for three months. Every day I'd get home from work, I would eat dinner, and I would do four hours of problems, set a timer, I did it every day, and then I scored 99 point whatever percentile, because it was just input-output. Like, I didn't, I, I didn't... I was naturally not even that good at math, um, but I just was like, "If I do 10,000 fucking problems, (laughs) like, I'll start to just understand how these problems get asked." And so, like, I always try and find, like, what's the input-output? For this, the content game, I was like, "Okay, well if we post once a day, on one platform, we will get some eyeballs. If we post on every platform, every day, we will get more eyeballs. If we post multiple times a day, on every platform, we'll get even more eyeballs. So, let's do that."

Steven Bartlett 49:34 Let's build that system.

Alex Hormozi 49:35 100%. And so, like, those are the, like, I try and make statements that I believe are unreasonable, that if I do it enough, it will be true, and so that's, for me, that's what gives me the confidence to say, like, "What if it's not working?" I'm like, "It will, eventually. Like, if we just keep doing it, it will work."

Steven Bartlett 49:53 What does it take to want to do something, potentially for years, so that you can get, good at it? 'Cause you know there's gonna be people thinking, "Well, I want to be a great DJ, but I just can't find the motivation to spend every day, three hours practicing," Alex?

Alex Hormozi 50:09 Yeah. Then, like, you probably won't be a good DJ. (laughs) But I'd be like, I would be like, you like your current state enough that you, like, the pain-of-change thing, right? Like, you're not in enough pain. I've said that to plenty of people. We go speak, and someone's like, "How do I get motivated?" I'm like, "You're not gonna get motivated." Like, you have to hate... For me, like, it al- it au- I automatically go there. I'm like, "You have to hate something." Like, for me, I just hated my current existence. And so for me, that was powerful enough to get me out.

Steven Bartlett 50:37 There's gotta be another way, though. You know, I was thinking to you, that moment where you took the leap.

Alex Hormozi 50:40 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 50:41 You know? Uh, there's, I feel, I often feel like most people that listen to this podcast, often are at a point in their life where they're considering a leap.

Alex Hormozi 50:48 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 50:49 Feel bu- like we dra- drag those type of people in. We kind of like, we're a magnet to those people. So if they, if they're in a situation-

Alex Hormozi 50:55 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 50:55 ... that they don't like, but it's not that painful-

Alex Hormozi 50:57 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 50:57 ... you know, it's comfortable-

Alex Hormozi 50:58 Mm-hmm.

Steven Bartlett 50:59 Well, that's the worst. It's comfortable, but a little bit miserable.

Alex Hormozi 51:02 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 51:02 How do you get them to take the leap, when it's so comfortable? My boss is promising me a promotion.

Alex Hormozi 51:12 I think about death all the time. It's like, I'm going to die, and I think you have to agitate the pain for yourself. Like, you have to stoke the pain. Like, if you can't get through, through... 'Cause, like, it would be, it, it would be odd if that you would be motivated by some weird passion, like, not everyone's Mozart and just like, "I just love music, and I've been r- I see in co- you know, see numbers and colors," you know, whatever. Like, some people are like that, but most people aren't. And so, if you're not that, then you only start really liking stuff when you get good at it, in my opinion, and you only get good at it by doing it a lot of times before you're good at it. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 51:49 Mm-hmm.

Alex Hormozi 51:49 And so if you... This is why I'm a big, big believer in this, is that when you are starting out, I think you gotta find the thing that's the pain, and, like, pain motivates significantly faster and stronger than pleasure does. Like, people are like, "No, passion's the right way." It's like, point a gun at a family member. All of a sudden, 10 outta 10 motivation, pain. And so, like, I think people should use their pain more. And if they don't have enough pain, then one, maybe that's fine, and you're a dreamer and that's okay. But I will tell you that a word that I can t- I read in my, like, six-month journey between when I wanted to quit and when I actually quit, there was this word that just, like, pissed me off, and it was this, in this self-help or entrepreneur book, and it said, "There are entrepreneurs and there are wantrepreneurs." And I was like, and it was like, "Wantrepreneurs are people who read these books and don't do anything," blah, blah, blah, and I was just like, "I don't wanna be a w-" I was like, "I am one of these right now," and I just, it just, like, felt so powerless, and I think that my entire life has been a lot of trying to have power. And I mean that in the true sense of just being able to direct influence in events. Um, I've wanted to have more power to protect myself, protect the people I care about, et cetera. Um, and I felt very powerless, and I think that I was in that comfortable, like, my dad approves of my current situation. I had a job that, when I told people, they were like, "Oh, that's fancy." But I felt powerless, and I, I hated that more than anything. And so I think it, I think if... I want to say this to anyone who's listening. If there's anything you listen to, all the stuff that I described that was really tough, that I went through, was not as hard as me quitting my job. By far the hardest decision of my entire life, bar none. Because the things that I was actually caught up with were the opinions of other people, the opinions of my father and the opinions of the people that I went to school with, who I thought would judge me for leaving this good job to probably become a failed gym owner, and how lame that would sound, compared to consultant, going to Harvard, and blah, blah. Like, I was gonna go from peak white collar to a very blue collar, (laughs) you know, profession making significantly less, because I, quote, "loved it." And, like, eh, uh, I s- I'll say this again, but, like, sometimes you have to let other people's dreams for your life die for yours to live. And for me, it was like when I, when I continued to, every day, not want to wake up, that was my wake-up call, where I was like, "Either I continue to live this way and not want to be alive, or I just risk the fact that I will die to everybody else." And I think that that, like, it was the hardest decision of my entire life, by far. All the s- all the hard stuff we went through, still the hardest decision of my life.

Steven Bartlett 54:33 How much was money on your mind when you made that decision?

Alex Hormozi 54:35 (clears throat)

Steven Bartlett 54:36 The desire to be financially free to the point where you had millions?

Alex Hormozi 54:40 It's weird. Money, um... Caleb would know this. Money doesn't really motivate me. Uh, I would say that it w- I mean, I love the game, for sure, um, but I love playing the game and the tokens are there. Um-But for me, it was, it was, it was, it was beating my dad. You know what I mean? I didn't want him to be right. Like, that's what it was. Like, I didn't want him to be right. I just, I just, I remember, like I would, I'd be sleeping on the floor, I'd be miserable at, you know, when I had my gym and I had no trainers, I was teaching all the classes. And so I, I'd wake up, I'd do 4:00 AM, 5:00 AM, 6:00 AM, 7, 8:00 AM sessions, and then I would then, uh, work out for myself, and then I would, uh, do, uh, I'd do all the marketing and the ads and the stuff that I have to do in the middle of the day, and then I would teach the four- the 4:00 PM, the 5:00 PM, then skipping the 7:00 PM, and then I would do sales consults at 8, 9, 10, 11, and then I would do the billing for all the, all the contracts from 11:00 to like 12, 12:30, and then I'd wake up again. And I did that for like six months, and like I started to like lose my mind because I wasn't sleeping. Um, but even during like those times, I just literally I would vi- envision going back to Baltimore to my father, and have ... And knowing that he would give me the false modesty of like, "Oh, I know you tried. Don't worry about it. Now, let's get you back on this thing." And I knew that from that moment on, he would own me, and I just couldn't, I, I couldn't, I couldn't do it. I was like, "I will do anything but go back to that." And for me, that was my ... I, I would do anything. And so whatever that ... Maybe you need to agitate some pain in your life (laughs) you know, to get out of your current circumstance. Um, and just as a total side note, play it out, what if you just never do anything? Is th- Like, maybe some people just need to stop dreaming. Maybe they need to accept their current reality and actually enjoy it, because there's a lot of people when they're 70 and 80 and they didn't do their dreams, and if they went back, like, they didn't do anything, but that whole time they were dissatisfied because they didn't try. But what if they were just like, "I have a good life. I have a wife who loves me. I've got some kids. I have a job that I, you know, like, I don't mind it. It pays the bills." I mean, if you go back 500 years, there wasn't people who were like, "Man, this is my passion." It's like, "Dude, I'm just rowing, uh, rowing a boat across a ferry, and that's what I do, and that's what my dad did and his dad did." (laughs) Like, "This is how we eat." And so like, we have these, these, um, idealized versions of purpose that I think Instagram and all this stuff kind of make terrible, but like, I think there's a lot of honor in work, period. And I think a lot of people, uh, fool themselves by thinking that what they do for some reason is not honorable. And I think a lot of it is like the internal versus external scorecard of like, uh, w- I was saying what I was saying earlier about like I believe these things to be true about the universe or like the world, but it, a lot of those are like, "What do I believe about myself?" Which is like, "I can choose to do work in this way, which then I can derive joy from." So like if I'm shoveling shit, I can choose to be like, "I will be the best shit shoveler, because I believe that I will figure out how to do (laughs) this more efficiently and I will, you know, I will, I will get better and I will have callouses on my hands and I'll have a better back and whatever. Um, but I will do this well." And I think you can find joy in work if you decide to do it well. So on one hand, if you are, if y- if you are, if your dream causes you so much pain, then you will quit what you're doing and do it. And if it doesn't cause you enough pain that you're not pursuing it or that you don't f- Like, if you don't feel like you're in a cage right now, then maybe you're not in a cage, and maybe you just need to like the life you have, and that's cool too.

Steven Bartlett 58:12 A previous guest on this podcast called Mo Gawdat said, "We're unhappy when our expectations of how we think life is supposed to be going are unmet." And in that, (clears throat) there's something very sort of linked to what you just said there, which is we have this external expectation set by Instagram or wha- whatever.

Alex Hormozi 58:29 By people like us.

Steven Bartlett 58:30 Yeah. (laughs)

Alex Hormozi 58:33 (laughs) Basically. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 58:34 Who, who, who, um, are in a position of, um, financial freedom and have built an audience, who, you know, ha- um, admire those people for what they've achieved, and if someone wants to be admired they think, "Well, I need to be like Alex," right? Um, and that e- I could be working in a shop actually objectively, like subjectively having a great time in the shop, but I look up at Alex and go, "My life sucks."

Alex Hormozi 58:55 Right.

Steven Bartlett 58:56 And, and like, so in that, um, like, it's very difficult, um, because of ext- the, the pressure of external ... Like, I was just thinking when you said it, then I was thinking, this whole idea of like passion and purpose is probably like 60 years old. (laughs)

Alex Hormozi 59:07 Yeah. It's make believe. It's all brand new.

Steven Bartlett 59:11 And it probably originated when we were like connected, you know, like radio, TV.

Alex Hormozi 59:16 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 59:17 All of this ad- meat- advertising which made us change our expectations of our own lives, when living in the village and like helping out at the bakery was probably, delivered the same amount of happiness, core happiness, than being on the private jet and whatever else does now.

Alex Hormozi 59:32 I think most people are just as happy and just as ... Like, you're 50% happy, 50% sad for most of your life. If you're in an extreme circumstance, then change your life. If you're not, like ... Conditions ... Like, people get handicapped, they break their legs or, you know, they, they can never move again, and they have a dip in their subjective well-being and they go back to the same baseline. And so like, the baseline is independent of conditions. And so the world wants to tell us that we need to change our, you know, change our circumstances and then we will be whatever, but like every modern religion, every Buddhist monk will tell you that all of that's from the inside, not the outside. Um, so ...

Steven Bartlett 1:00:07 But these are words, and words that me and you-

Alex Hormozi 1:00:09 Yeah. Can say.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:11 ... don't follow. (laughs)

Alex Hormozi 1:00:12 Yeah. (laughs) Sure.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:13 'Cause I'm sure that you've, you've experienced like the attainment of a goal and then, "I just need three times more."

Alex Hormozi 1:00:18 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:19 I'm referencing a study there where they, they asked people how much money they would need to be happy.

Alex Hormozi 1:00:22 Right. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:00:23 And all the way up the income wealth spectrum, people said three times more than they have now. So people with 10K-

Alex Hormozi 1:00:27 Yeah. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:00:27 ... said 30. People with 3 million said, you know, sic- 9 million. Uh, fucking, I can't do math in three times-

Alex Hormozi 1:00:33 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:00:33 Three times three. (laughs)

Alex Hormozi 1:00:34 Yeah.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:35 Um, and you, you, uh, I imagine you still experience that now, right?

Alex Hormozi 1:00:39 Yeah. Different reasons, but yeah, for sure.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:42 When is enough, enough?

Alex Hormozi 1:00:44 Um, I don't think it's enough thing. I think it's more like who I want to be.

Steven Bartlett 1:00:47 Who do you want to be?

Alex Hormozi 1:00:48 I want to be the person capable of-

Steven Bartlett 1:00:51 Of?

Alex Hormozi 1:00:51 ... doing that, doing X. Like, we'll get to a billion, and then after a billion, I'll, I'll make it 10. I already know that. You know what I mean? But like, I love playing the game.

Steven Bartlett 1:01:00 What is the game?

Alex Hormozi 1:01:01 The game of business.

Steven Bartlett 1:01:03 To what, to what end? Or just-

Alex Hormozi 1:01:05 Just for the play.

Steven Bartlett 1:01:05 ... to play?

Alex Hormozi 1:01:06 Yeah. I'm a bit, uh, I'm sure you know more about this than I do, but, like, just game theory. Like, the inf- finite and infinite games. Simon Sinek has a great piece on it. Um, but yeah, with infinite games you have known and unknown players, you have no agreed upon rules, and the point of the game is to keep the game going. And so, a lot of games people will take a finite game where you have known, only known players, agreed upon rules, and a set outcome, um, for winning, and they apply it to an infinite game. So people are like, "I wanna," uh, they apply a finite contract to health. They're like, "I wanna win health." It's like, you don't win health. Like, okay, you're in shape. Now what? You stay in shape. You keep staying in shape. "I wanna win at marriage." You don't win at marriage. You keep the marriage going. That's playing the game of marriage. If you wanna, you don't win at business, you keep playing the game of business. And so we wanna take these finite contracts and put them on, on, on infinite games, and I think that's where people get e- get in trouble, because they're, they're like, "I have to keep moving the goalpost." But if the goalpost is to play, then you win by playing. And so for that re- like, sure, we set goals for the company, but, like, I'm 1,000% super motivated, and at the same time if we never hit it, I'm just gonna be happy that I was able to play. I also know that in three generations, everyone will forget who I am.

Steven Bartlett 1:02:17 I saw your post about the Queen.

Alex Hormozi 1:02:19 Yeah. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:02:20 (laughs)

Alex Hormozi 1:02:20 That was, that was a stab at you. Yeah. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:02:22 No, no, no. There wasn't, it wasn't for me, if I'm being honest. (laughs)

Alex Hormozi 1:02:25 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:02:26 Um, but, uh, but it's an interesting con- What did the post say? It was, do you remember that?

Alex Hormozi 1:02:30 Well, she amassed more wealth than 99.99% of the world. She ruled for 70 years. Uh, was, you know, the f- a female monarch, which is insane, especially 70 years ago. Just, like, all the, she had amazing family, all this s- Amazing, whatever. I, I don't know the tabloids. You do. Um, and when I posted it, it had been, I think, five or six months since she had died exactly. And I was like, "You probably haven't thought about her today except for this post, and she probably accomplished more in her life than we probably will." So if you are afraid of other people thinking about you, just remember that six months after you die, they're not going to be. And so it's like we have all these fears about other people, but, like, most of them won't even show up to your funeral, 'cause they're gonna be busy. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:03:15 Mm-hmm.

Alex Hormozi 1:03:15 And so, like, I, I think about death all the time, and that's, that's what, I think, for me, has given me a lot of, uh, freedom to take big shots. Because, like, at the end of the day, I think that it's not going to matter. No one's going to remember. People in Thailand don't know who I am today. (laughs) Let alone in five, 10 years, 100 years.

Steven Bartlett 1:03:35 It's a trap that the mind can quite easily fall into, though, thinking you are the center of the universe, and with that comes an immense amount of weight and pressure and anxiety.

Alex Hormozi 1:03:42 Totally.

Steven Bartlett 1:03:43 I, I have a trick. I've never talked about this before, but whenever (clears throat) I feel myself slipping into the trap of kind of overstating my importance, and what I mean by that is, like, thinking my problems are big problems-

Alex Hormozi 1:03:56 (laughs) Right.

Steven Bartlett 1:03:56 ... I go on YouTube, and I type in, um ... There's this one video that shows a camera on Earth that just zoom out, and it keeps going, and eventually Earth becomes this tiny speck. Then Earth becomes this tiny speck which is the galaxy, then the galaxy becomes this tiny speck in a bunch of galaxies, then you can't see any of it anymore. And then also, this idea that, like, 100 years ago, I didn't feel anything, didn't think anything, nobody kn- knew me. 100 years from now, exactly what you said, absolutely. I mean, fucking five minutes after I die, I think, "Oh, phew." But, um, and that feels really liberating. It, like, relieves s- uh, stress from my body, which is a interesting thing, 'cause a lot of people don't like thinking about their death, you know?

Alex Hormozi 1:04:36 I love thinking about it.

Steven Bartlett 1:04:37 Yeah.

Alex Hormozi 1:04:38 All the time.

Steven Bartlett 1:04:38 I know from doing this podcast that a lot of people won't click if we, we post something about death. (laughs)

Alex Hormozi 1:04:43 (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:04:43 They won't, 'cause they don't even wanna confront the, the concept of it.

Alex Hormozi 1:04:45 Oh, for sure.

Steven Bartlett 1:04:45 Which is ...

Alex Hormozi 1:04:47 People are afraid of it just 'cause they don't understand it. It's kinda like the hate thing.

Steven Bartlett 1:04:52 How do you feel about death?

Alex Hormozi 1:04:53 I'm good with it.

Steven Bartlett 1:04:56 When you say, "I'm good with it," wh- what do you mean?

Alex Hormozi 1:04:59 If I die tomorrow, I'm good with it. Like, I wanna leave it all on the field. I'm gonna try as hard as I can, and I know that no one will remember me on a long enough time horizon, and I'm good with that. Like, I'm cool with it.

Steven Bartlett 1:05:20 If I told you you were gonna die tomorrow, would you be sad?

Alex Hormozi 1:05:24 I probably hang out with Layla. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:05:25 (laughs)

Alex Hormozi 1:05:26 A little, I guess a little more than I always do, but, like, um, I would say I wouldn't be sad. I'd be bummed. I'd be like, "Man, there's all this shit I wanna do." Uh, but I don't think I'd be, like, depressed. I think I'd be, I mean, mind you, to be fair, maybe I'll find out and maybe I'll get hit by a bus tomorrow. But, um, no, I think, like, I've lived life the way I wanna live life, and I'm good with it.

Steven Bartlett 1:05:51 If you were to go today, had you really, like, given it everything, had you lived the life you feel like you were really destined to live?

Alex Hormozi 1:05:59 Me, absolutely. An interesting mind trick around this same topic is ... So when, when Betty White dies, right, at 99 or whatever, like, people are like, "She lived a good life." But when Kobe dies before his time, right, it's a big deal. And I see that as a contrast between expectations and reality. And I'm gonna tell a story that hopefully people don't take the wrong way. But I had a cat, and really liked the cat, and it died at two years old. Really liked it, young guy, heart thing or something, whatever. And I remember being, like, really bummed about it. And I was like, "Huh. How can I not think this?" (laughs) And so I was like, "The only reason I am bummed is because I think that he should have," should being the, the big word that everyone likes to u- He should have lived longer. I was like, "What if cats only lived six months, and I got to have him for two years?" I was like, "I'd probably be pretty stoked about that." And all of a sudden, I was significantly less sad about it. And I was like, "I got to have him for two years." I was like, "Awesome." And so I think-... like, for, for me, for us, whatever, um, if we were to change our expectation, like, people think they should live until... Everyone thinks they're gonna live to 100, which is kind of interesting, 'cause like the average life expectancy is 74, and if you're like 36, you're middle-aged if you actually do the math, which no one wants to do, uh, being middle-aged-

Steven Bartlett 1:07:25 That's scary. (laughs)

Alex Hormozi 1:07:26 ... at 36. I know, right? I know, right?

Steven Bartlett 1:07:27 Might want to go. (laughs)

Alex Hormozi 1:07:28 Yeah. (laughs)

Steven Bartlett 1:07:29 Yeah.

Alex Hormozi 1:07:29 But I think if we shift our expectations, then... Like, expectations is the thing.

Steven Bartlett 1:07:33 It's the, it's all over.

Alex Hormozi 1:07:34 It's the thing, right? And so we can e- if we expected, if I expected that I was supposed to have lived 20 years and I made it to 33, stoked. Jesus lived until 33. He did a lot more than I have. You know what I mean?

Steven Bartlett 1:07:46 Hmm.

Alex Hormozi 1:07:46 And so, I'm good with it. If I die tomorrow, like only reason I would be upset is, is if I demanded from the universe that I live longer.