The Number One Reason This Generation Is Struggling: Scott Galloway | E190

1. 0:00 – 2:11

   Intro

   1. SGScott Galloway0:00

      If you could do something that would make you less depressed, to be successful, wouldn't you wanna take that drug every day?

   2. SBSteven Bartlett0:05

      You gotta tell me what it is.

   3. SGScott Galloway0:07

      So, it is- Scott Galloway. He's a public speaker and author. Marketing professor at NYU.

   4. NANarrator0:13

      He's a business world rockstar.

   5. SGScott Galloway0:15

      I'm not done yet. The number of kids who see their friends every day has been cut in half in the last 10 years. The knock-on effect here is that we're producing too many of what is the most dangerous person in the world, and that is a young, broke, and alone man. They get this illusion that they have worth when they say angry, misogynistic content on social media. They become just really citizens.

   6. NANarrator0:37

      Andrew Tate, the self-described misogynist.

   7. SGScott Galloway0:39

      If a woman is going out with a man, she belongs to that man.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett0:42

      Is Andrew Tate's message a symptom of what you've described?

   9. SGScott Galloway0:45

      100%. They're out of fucking control.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett0:48

       How would we go about solving this problem?

   11. SGScott Galloway0:49

       So, life gets very hard, very fast, 25 to 45. And generally speaking, these are the least happy years. And then something wonderful happens, you find joy in the mundane as you get older, and you get happier. So, I think it's helpful just to know that. When you say something stupid at a party, when you say something unkind and you're just beating yourself up, you need to forgive yourself and you need to realize what feels important in the moment isn't that important. Happiness waits for you.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett1:18

       What are you still working on?

   13. SGScott Galloway1:19

       I'm trying to slow time down. Time is falling off a cliff for me.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett1:23

       But how does one practically slow time down so that 30 years doesn't fly past?

   15. SGScott Galloway1:27

       I find that you can slow time down by-

   16. SBSteven Bartlett1:30

       Before this episode begins, I just wanna say a huge thank you to all of our new subscribers. 74% of you that watch this channel didn't subscribe before, and we're now down to about 71%. So, that helps us in a number of ways that are quite hard to explain, but simply, the bigger the channel gets, the bigger the guests get. So, if you haven't yet subscribed to The Diary of a CEO, if I could have any favors from you, if you've ever watched this show and enjoyed it, it's just to- to please hit the subscribe button. Without further ado, I'm Steven Bartlett, and this is The Diary of a CEO. I hope nobody's listening, but if you are, then please keep this to yourself.

2. 2:11 – 5:48

   Early years

   1. SBSteven Bartlett2:11

      Scott, give me your context. What is the necessary context that I'd have to understand about you and your earliest years to make sense of the person that you went on to be in real life?

   2. SGScott Galloway2:25

      Wow, that's a thoughtful question. Um, raised by a single immigrant mother who lived and died a secretary. A lot of my life, you know, I think the most important thing in anyone's life is to have someone who's irrationally passionate about your well-being, and I had that. And the second thing is, I was born in California in the '60s, a white heterosexual male, which was like hittering- hitting a lottery. Uh, I got access to amazing free education. I went to UCLA and Berkeley for graduate and undergraduate degrees. Total tuition, $7,000. And not only was it accessible financially, it was accessible period. The admissions rate at UCLA when I applied was 76%. It's now 6%. And I mention my, uh, sexuality because my freshman roommate in college was born a white homosexual male and was dead of AIDS at the age of 33. So, you know, a lot of my success, whether it was free education, coming of age during the internet age, which was incredible wind in your economic sails, you know, a lot of my success is not my fault. So, the two things that I try and remember that define my start, and it was an amazing start, were one, uh, you know, someone who was irrationally passionate about my well-being and, uh, being born in America, and just being exceptionally fortunate.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett3:47

      You mentioned your mother there. What about your father?

   4. SGScott Galloway3:49

      My dad, uh, you know, not a bad man. Uh, he left us, for lack of a better term, when I was eight. You know, it was the '70s. He started his third marriage while he was still married to my mom. Uh, neither of my parents are very sophisticated. Uh, uh, they were both pulled out of school at the age of 13. My dad was a Handsome Scott living in LA, which means he not only thought with his dick, he could listen to it. And, uh, so he, you know, just really enjoyed himself, for lack of a better term, which didn't foot well to, uh, you know, family life. Uh, so he wasn't very involved in my life growing up. But I- I feel compelled to say, now that he's 92, every person's obligation from a species level is to be a better father or mother than their father or mother was to them. And he was definitely that. He was- he grew up in terrible circumstances, and he always tried to do the right thing. But it was, you know, it was me and my mom.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett4:50

      Was it a happy childhood, in your view?

   6. SGScott Galloway4:52

      It was entirely st- y- y- y- you were talking a li- little about your childhood. It was entirely unremarkable. I feel like on a scale of one to 100, 100 being the best childhood in the world, one being the worst, in America at least, I was like a 50. It wasn't bad. You know, we didn't have any... We didn't ha- We were l- upper lower middle class, but it wasn't a sob story. In America in the '70s, you could make, you- you could survive on a secretary salary. We took vacations. I didn't go to good schools, but they weren't bad schools. I had friends, but not a lot of friends. I- I, you know, my high school reunion was recently, no one would remember me. My, my childhood was remarkably unremarkable. It wasn't bad, it's not a sob story, but it wasn't what I would call great with a lot of support and a lot of accoutrements. But again, the context of it is being at the median in California in the '70s was like hitting the lottery. It was the highest median in the world.

3. 5:48 – 11:12

   Your relationship with money

   1. SBSteven Bartlett5:48

      What was your relationship like with money? 'Cause I- I remember reading that-

   2. SGScott Galloway5:51

      Mm-hmm.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett5:51

      ... that was, um, quite, your relationship with money and your, your family's relationship with money was quite formative.

   4. SGScott Galloway5:56

      Uh, money very early had a big impact on me because...You know, people say, oh, at the time, having a divorced mom felt like a little bit of a, not a scarlet letter, but you were the kid who lived with his mother. But the thing that was harder was we didn't have any money. I mean, we weren't poor, but, you know, you apply to college and if you didn't get into UCLA, which I didn't get in, there were no options. We didn't have the confidence or the contacts or the money to apply, for me to apply to college outside of school. It was stressful, and, but it was also, in some ways, very motivating. My mom got sick when I was a young adult, and I, me being the only child, and some of those, you know, instincts that a son feels for his mother take over. And when my mom got sick, I decided, all right, uh, I, I remember coming home one weekend, she was very ill, and I remember thinking, kind of like, "I'm not doing my job as a man because I don't have the money to take care of her." And that was really emasculating, and that's when I kind of got my shit together. I remember the moment, it was when I was in graduate school, I was 26. And look, I, I decided very early, and people, I think people who have achieved some level of wealth aren't entirely forthcoming or honest. I think about money a lot. I was very focused on it. Um, I decided very early that I was gonna have economic security. I did nothing but pretty much work for 20 years. I don't remember much else but work. It cost me my hair, it cost me my first marriage, and it was worth it.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett7:23

      Is there a risk in that, that when we become so orientated by money-

   6. SGScott Galloway7:26

      Yep.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett7:27

      ... we... I've said this, I've had this conversation with a few guests about are we really driven or are we being dragged? And, and how do we make sure we're not being dragged so we can be intentional about living lives in line with our values?

   8. SGScott Galloway7:42

      Yeah, I'm not, I'm not proposing this is what the world should be, I'm proposing what it is in a capitalist society, and that is, I think America... I just moved here, so I don't know if society is different here. I have noticed here that people ask you where you're from. In America, they ask you what you do.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett7:55

      Hmm.

   10. SGScott Galloway7:55

       But America becomes more like itself every day, and that is it is a ki- it is a kind, generous place if you have money. It's a rapacious, violent place if you don't have money. And I figured that out very, very soon. The way I saw it was that poor people have an entirely different experience with the US healthcare system than rich people. Um, I just saw it as, if I wanna have a life of opportunity, of prosperity, selection set of mates, even love... To be, to be wealthy in America is to be loved. People find you interesting, they wanna know you, you have a broader selection set of mates. It is... The idolatry of the dollar and the impact that wealth has on your life in America is unfortunate and 100% true and it gets more true every day. And one of the things I coach young people around is you just have to figure out a way to become economically viable. I'm not saying you need to do what I did and work all the time and be very, kind of, have a monocular focus on money, which I did. I think there's a lot of people who decide they're not gonna live to work, they're gonna work to live, and they move to a lower cost region, they live within their means and they have really good lives. I think that's a nice way to live your life. The majority of young people I'm around, by virtue of the fact I teach at a business school, expect to not only be in the top 10%, they expect to be in the top 1% economically. And so what I encourage young people to do is have a sober conversation. What do you, where do you expect to be economically? And the majority of young people you talk to expect to be in the top 1%. And I don't know anyone who's gotten there who didn't inherit money, who didn't sacrifice a lot. You know, what I tell young people is, "You can have it all. You just can't have it all at once." And I think in this competitive environment, to be great at anything, uh, you not only need talent, you not only need luck, you just need a tremendous amount of grit and a tremendous commitment. There are some people who are so talented that they can have balance in their lives at a young age and get economic security. I think you should assume you're not one of those people, and assume that, like most of us who have achieved some level of economic security, it's required a significant trade-off. It came at a cost. It came at a cost of relationships. It came at a cost of stress. I mean, it takes a toll. But the reason I have balance in my life right now, I have a lot of balance in my life right now, is 'cause I didn't have very much when I was your age, when I was young. I mean, you're an entrepreneur.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett10:20

       Hmm.

   12. SGScott Galloway10:21

       (laughs) It's hard to phone it in as an entrepreneur. It just requires a level of... People think we're just so, we're extraordinarily talented, that we're just blessed with some special skill. I would argue that you're, you have more of a risk appetite, you're willing to endure public failure-

   13. SBSteven Bartlett10:36

       Hmm.

   14. SGScott Galloway10:36

       ... because there's no blaming anyone else when your business, you know, crashes. It's very public failure. And also, more than anything, you have a natural instinct to be thinking about the business all the time and working at it most of the time. That's... You know, the, there- there's a relationship between intelligence and success, but it tops out at about 110, 120 IQ. It's better to be smart, you're more likely to be successful if you're smart, but the difference between being smart and being a genius has no correlation between success. That's where grit and perseverance and resilience take over.

4. 11:12 – 14:17

   Your mother getting sick

   1. SGScott Galloway11:12

   2. SBSteven Bartlett11:12

      I wanna continue that thread, but... And one of the things you said at the start of this conversation was about your mother's... She got sick.

   3. SGScott Galloway11:18

      Mm-hmm.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett11:19

      I read that she... You remember the day when you realized that she was depressed.

   5. SGScott Galloway11:23

      Yep.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett11:24

      How did that shape your views on happiness and fulfillment and depression and how we, how we ultimately end up in a situation where we're suffering with depression? Did, did, was that at all... Did that influence your view on happiness, watching your mother be, become depressed?

   7. SGScott Galloway11:40

      Yeah, my mom wasn't searly depressed, severely depressed, but I remember, um... And that's one of the wonderful things about a, a liberal arts, uh, education. I took psychology and they started talking about clinical depression and what it meant, and I realized that's what my mom was suffering from. And depression is sort of the cancer of our generation in that is it used to be closeted and now people are openly talking about it, and it's really helpful, because I wish I'd known what my mom was going through earlier. Because you immediately...... m- you know, we're a narcissistic species, you can only think it's something you've done. It's not about you usually, it's about them. And also, life isn't about what happens to you, it's about how you respond to what happens to you. And I think it's very helpful when you recognize depression and understand it and recognize it in other people, because what you then realize is that when you're feeling really down, a lot of times it's not your fault. You may have substantial reason to be depressed, but you may not. A lot of it is about your chemistry that day. And also to recognize that this too shall pass, that nothing s- is- is... A s- a s- saying that's been really important to me, and it's one of the few sayings that's always kind of held its water for me, is nothing is ever as good or as bad as it seems. When you feel like you're killing it, when you feel like you're on top of the world, that's absolutely the time to bring in your horns and be humble and grateful and realize a lot of your success isn't your fault. You just got lucky. And at the same time, when you're upset, when you're angry at yourself, when you're depressed, when you feel like everything's just black, it's not. That's- that's temporary, and you- it's comforting to know that that will pass. Understanding what my mom was going through was external, that it wasn't because things were so bad for us or so bad for her, that this was a chemical thing, this was like catching a cold. That was really liberating and helpful, not only to manage the situation in our household, but to recognize when I was down, and also to recognize that I was probably gonna be more prone or vulnerable to that type of depression. Um, but just being aware of these things. You know, you're a young man. When I was a kid, we didn't talk about depression.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett13:37

      Mm-hmm.

   9. SGScott Galloway13:37

      We used to call it a nervous breakdown, and it was a sign of weakness and it only happened to women, right? They were the weaker gender and they had something called a nervous breakdown. That was what mental health, that's what depression was called back then. And then slowly but surely, people started to acknowledge that it was a thing, that it was no different than any other type of illness, that it was treatable, and that it wasn't a- a sign of shame. So I- it was really helpful for me. It was- it was, uh, um, you know, liberating to kind of understand it and realize that it wasn't totally a function of our situation or an indication of how good or bad things were at the time.

5. 14:17 – 20:16

   The importance of community

   1. SGScott Galloway14:17

   2. SBSteven Bartlett14:17

      One of the things you talk about in your new book, Adrift, um, is this decay of community in our lives.

   3. SGScott Galloway14:24

      Mm-hmm. Yeah.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett14:24

      And community seems like such a human thing.

   5. SGScott Galloway14:27

      Yeah.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett14:28

      So I- I, when I read that, I thought maybe that's in part part of the- part of the cause or factor of why we're seeing a lot of, um, unhappiness, depression and-

   7. SGScott Galloway14:38

      Mm-hmm.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett14:38

      ... these things. What's your- what's your take on that?

   9. SGScott Galloway14:41

      100%. Um, do you have dogs? I know you don't have kids.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett14:43

       Yeah, I do have a- have a dog upstairs.

   11. SGScott Galloway14:45

       So look, dogs just wanna be around other beings, and mammals are social. We're very social. We s- you know, from a young age, we cycle where we just wanna... My dogs lie on top of each other. I mean, we're meant to be around each other, and whether it's in the US, enrollment in Boy and Girl Scouts is off by like 40%. Church attendance is way down. The- the percentage of people who speak to their neighbors is off like 40%. If you just think about COVID, we don't go to the mall, we don't go to movie theaters, right? We're becoming more and more segregated by income class. The number of kids who see their friends every day has been cut in half in the last 10 years. So we're just not touching, smelling, and feeling each other nearly as much, and I think that's directly correlated to happiness. My youngest really struggled with COVID, and we always said, "Well, it's because he's not in school," because the schools were closed for a while. And I thought, "More than school, what my kid needs is other kids." And that is, you know, the... You need guardrails, you need people around you. I think of those Japanese soldiers who retreated into the hills of the Philippines with orders to not give up the island. You know, when the Japanese withdrew from the Philippine Islands in the South Pacific, they left behind some of these, uh, soldiers. Some of them were there for 20 or 30 years (laughs) and they refused to give up their commission until... They would have to find the- the commanding officer, take them to the island, and tell them, "Come down. The war's been over for 25 years." These individuals accomplished nothing. They didn't grow spiritually, physic- physically. They didn't learn anything. They had nothing to share with anyone after their 25 years. So being alone is one of the worst things on an extended basis that can happen to a human, and every day, one of the worst things that can happen to a human is happening more and more to all of us in Western society, and it's especially prevalent among kids. The lack of socialization and then this kind of hyper-socialization that takes place on their phone, which is really brutal and has huge externalities is, I think, one of the biggest, uh, causes for the massive uptick in depression among young people. So again, I like to coach younger people. I'm like, "Put yourself in a position where you have to be around other people every day building something in the agency of something else, whether it's a job, whether it's a nonprofit, whether it's church, whether it's a sports league. Be in the agency of others building something bigger than all of you," and it's a great way to make friends, mentors. It's a great way to learn how to read the room. I joined a fraternity when I went to UCLA when I was 17, and people make a cartoon of fraternity like we're all these terrible people. It was the best thing I could have done. I had no male role models until the age of 17. My dad wasn't around. I didn't have many friends. So being in a place that shrunk a 30,000-person campus down to a smaller thing, I wouldn't have graduated, and it was hard for me. These- my quote unquote, "fraternity brothers" gave me a hard time, but it was really good for me. You know, you- you- (laughs) you- you get in better shape. I- I remember- I remember my roommates telling me to stop smoking so much pot and go to class more. I mean, you have people watching you 24 by 7. Uh, I needed that socialization, uh, so I think one of the worst things that can happen to a young adult is for them to be isolated, and we're increasingly isolated.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett18:14

       Are you optimistic about that, that changing? Because the direction of travel is in one dir- is in one direction, and then when you hear things about metaverses and-

   13. SGScott Galloway18:20

       Yeah. (sighs) I'm not. I think we have this nihilistic ... I think technology is nihilistic. I think the most successful person in the world, at least monetarily, wants to figure out a way to inhabit another planet rather than focus his genius and his resources on making this planet more habitable. And I find that nihilistic and, uh, people ... I, I just find it strange that the most talented, wealthiest people in the world wanna get us off the planet. So, and then you think about social media, just the trends among young people, there's an uptick in travel, but that's pent-up demand by a, a class of people who have the money to travel. Our socialization appears to have taken a dramatic step change, structural step change down. And I even see it in my kids, they are thinking about getting home to their phones. And they're social on their phones, but it's not a replacement for, for person-to-person contact. Um, you know, there's some good things to it, t- uh, teen drunk driving accidents are down, teen pregnancy is way down, but the number of kids socializing is way off. I find it, I think it's a, I think it's a terrible thing and I don't see ... There'll be s- some uptick because COVID's over, but it feels like there's been a structural step change down 'cause people now want the dopa they get trading on Robinhood, watching porn, watching Netflix, uh, getting some sort of socialization or need for affirmation by the number of likes they get on Twitter rather than leaving their house to get that same type of dopa hit. The number of people playing in organized sports is way down. So I'm not ... I, I think it's, I think it's a real problem and I don't see it ... Unless there's ex- unless there's recognition of it and external investment, whether it's youth clubs, whether it's after school programs, whether it's some sort of conscription or national service, which I'm a big fan of, I don't see structured means for people, young people to serve in the agency of something bigger than themselves.

6. 20:16 – 25:18

   Is there a decline of grit in young people?

   1. SBSteven Bartlett20:16

      Do you think there's a decline, decline in grit amongst young people, like this Gen Z generation in the, in the western world? When you think about your kids and their ... and the grit they'll have. You talked about how important grit is to, to achieving-

   2. SGScott Galloway20:27

      Mm-hmm.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett20:27

      ... economic viability. Um, I was talking to Simon Sinek about this a couple of weeks ago on this podcast about whether Gen Z are less res- resilient and hardworking than generations that have come before them because of the influences. I remember, I opened up TikTok the other day and it's like, it's showing ... I don't know whether this was just the TikTok I saw-

   4. SGScott Galloway20:46

      Mm-hmm.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett20:46

      I remember one going viral on Twitter a couple of weeks ago, uh, from San Francisco showing the day in th- the life of, um, a Gen Z working in-

   6. SGScott Galloway20:53

      Mm-hmm. Yeah.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett20:53

      ... in tech and it's like wake up, go get the frappuccino latte, whatever.

   8. SGScott Galloway20:57

      (laughs) Take the dog for a walk. Yeah.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett20:58

      Take the dog for a ... pottery class. (laughs)

   10. SGScott Galloway20:59

       Yeah, yeah.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett21:02

       It's like ... (laughs) And it's like-

   12. SGScott Galloway21:02

       I love that.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett21:03

       ... five minutes on the laptop, pottery class. (laughs)

   14. SGScott Galloway21:06

       I love that. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yoga.

   15. SBSteven Bartlett21:07

       (laughs)

   16. SGScott Galloway21:07

       Um, I worry about this a lot with my kids because generally speaking what happens is the children of ... I, I would say if I had what my kids have, I wouldn't have what I have, because I wasn't that motivated. If I'd grown up in the household I'm grow- my kids are growing up now, the only two things I know I would've had in my life as a young man are a Range Rover and a cocaine habit. I just wasn't ... An absence of money really motivated me, and my kids don't have that. My kids have access to everything they need. And so trying to figure out a way to instill grit in your kids, whether it's chores or some level of discipline, I- it's my, uh ... I think it's my biggest challenge as a, or our biggest challenge as parents. Uh, um, but in terms of the ... I work with ... And granted, it's selection bias. I work ... The kids I work with, I can't get over how extraordinarily talented they are. Um, so the meme of quiet quitting ... And again, it may be proximity bias th- 'cause of the kids I draw or I, I know at my firm, but I find that every year ... And I teach between 300 and 500 kids a year at NYU. Every year I find that the kids, the young adults are more talented and harder working and more socially conscious. Sure, they're a little expectant. Some of it I roll my eyes. You know, occasionally I'll say someone say, you know, "I, I need to leave and go do, to Pilates class." And I kinda laugh. Like, I can't even imagine saying that to my boss, uh, when I started out. But in general, I find they're just remarkable. Um, and again, it might be 'cause of the kids I've been able to attract, but I don't buy this notion that they're somehow entitled. I don't, I haven't seen that.

   17. SBSteven Bartlett22:49

       When you were, when you were teaching these young people about, and preparing them mentally and with skills for the, the world that's to come-

   18. SGScott Galloway22:55

       Mm-hmm.

   19. SBSteven Bartlett22:56

       ... what is a key indicator that that young person will become a successful adult, professional, entrepreneur, business owner?

   20. SGScott Galloway23:03

       Yeah. I can't speak to entrepreneur. W- we're very data-driven. So I ran, I started and ran a company called L2, which was a business intelligence firm. We grew it to about 120 people and then we sold it. And we, we were very data-driven and we used to, you know, evaluate everybody every year. (laughs) And then we would try and look for, um, correlations. And while it's dangerous to do and no one wrote it down, the correlations we found that were the best predictors of success at our firm were a few things. One, they went to a great school, which we don't like to say. But, uh, most of our kids who are really, really strong had gone to what you would consider elite universities. Uh, two, they were athletes. We found that, um, a background in sports, especially individual sports, whether it was gymnastics or diving, uh, that these people just brought a certain level of discipline and grit that some of the others didn't have. And the third is female. Uh, uh, they, uh ... Because we had such a young firm, uh, a disproportionate amount of our really successful people were women. And there's a lot of studies showing now that women just mature at an earlier age. The net of it for us was, and you were scared to write it down, and I've sold the firm so I can say it now, if a woman from the Yale gymnastics team showed up, she was an automatic hire. And I don't think that's anything unusual. The re- uh, or that groundbreaking, the-You know, I graduated from UCLA with a 2.27 GPA. I don't know if you have grades, the evalu- but basically, I barely graduated. And I got a job at Morgan Stanley right out of UCLA, which was considered a pretty prestigious firm, and it's because the guy who ran the department had rowed crew, and I was an oarsman at UCLA. And he said, "Anyone who rows crew gets an automatic hire because you're willing to kill yourself. You can push yourself harder than anyone." Uh, so, uh, a lot of these firms recognize that sports are a forward-looking indicator, but some of the other indicators, you can't control. You know, getting into an elite university now is a function of being the, the son or daughter of someone rich, or being freakishly remarkable, kind of two cohorts, and then obviously, you can't control your sex. But I have several women in their early 20s working for me who could be the junior senator, could be the next ambassador to France, and you know, a lot of the young men have a lot of potential, but you can just see they just don't mature as fast.

7. 25:18 – 28:49

   The most important decision you’ll make

   1. SGScott Galloway25:19

   2. NANarrator25:19

      At NYU, what else are you teaching these kids? I call them kids, they're my age, but ...

   3. SGScott Galloway25:24

      Yeah, I- I, well, I mean, it's mostly principles of brand strategy and digital marketing, but I have a course, uh, I have a session that, the most popular session is on, I call it the algebra of happiness, and I just go through sort of basic best practices for success, and we've talked about some of them. Realizing balance, I think, is a myth. I think the most important decision you'll make in your 20s and 30s, you know, I survey the class, "What's the most important decision you'll make?" And they usually say, "The industry I'll go into, where you decide to live." The most important decision you'll make is who you decide to partner with, specifically have kids, because you're in that person's life for 20 years. And I have a lot of friends who are successful in most exterior metrics, but don't have a real partner in their spouse, and they have what I would call a life full of stress and disappointment on a regular basis. Whereas I have friends who, on an external basis, may not look as successful, but they have a real partner, and everything just burns brighter for them. So, the most important decision you'll make is, is who you're fortunate or not fortunate enough to partner with. And so what I suggest is that they be as aggressive as possible about creating as many opportunities for serendipity and contact with people, that your, your ability to punch above your weight class and find someone of great character, that you're attracted to, that you fit with, is a function of liquidity, and that is always accept invitations to dinner parties. Uh, I think young men should be more aggressive. I think young men have been told in this environment that they should, uh, be very careful about who they approach and express interest in, and I think there is a huge difference between expressing interest in a thoughtful way and harassing someone, and if you don't know the difference, you've got much bigger problems. But I encourage young men to, as a general cognitive or behavioral therapy, to force themselves, when they're in a line of coffee, to talk to some- the guy or gal in front of them and behind them. Because if you're interested in someone, there's nothing wrong with asking them out to coffee. There's nothing wrong with expressing interest, and I see a lot of young men are not creating those types of opportunities to meet people and eventually find good friends, find good mentors, and most importantly, find a good mate. And so unfortunately, marriage and relationships are becoming another luxury item. Marriage and pairing off with a mate is plummeting among people. It's- it's, um, correlated to your wealth, because middle income and poor people, especially men, are no longer are s- because of online dating, are no longer seen as viable mates, and they also don't have as many opportunities to meet people in person where there's things like smell and vibe and humor that are some of the magic and mystery of why we're attracted to each other. But, um, what I tell them is create as many opportunities as possible to establish relationships. Uh, so it's give a balance, but if and when you can, invest all of your remaining energy in having as many, uh, you know, random contacts with people as possible, and also be aggressive. Talk to people, introduce yourself. If you're interested in someone, if you want to establish a friendship, if you're interested in someone romantically, express that interest. If, if they're not interested in you, both of you are gonna be fine. You can handle the rejection or the small rejection. They can handle someone expressing interest, and I think in our age, we've, uh, in a weird way, uh, implicitly told young people, especially men, they're not supposed to express that interest.

8. 28:49 – 33:51

   Dating apps

   1. SGScott Galloway28:49

   2. NANarrator28:49

      What do you make of dating apps?

   3. SGScott Galloway28:52

      Well, I think my advice to young people would be to do it all, you know? It's how people meet. Uh, it used to be how people made it, if you will, is that it used to be a third work, a third friends, and a third school. Now, it's well above 50% online, so the majority of relationships are beginning online for b- people your age, and it's very efficient. But what happens when technology comes into any sector is it consolidates it. It becomes a winner take most market. So whether it's e-commerce, social media, search engines, once technology comes into it, you have one company that owns 50% of all online retail, two thirds of all social, and 93% of search. So technology has come into mating with dating apps, and it's created a winner take all or winner take most dynamic, which is somewhat unhealthy, and it, it plays out like something like this: Women are interested in men based on three criteria. The first is their ability to signal resources, the second is intelligence, and the third is kindness. It doesn't matter how rich or how smart you are, if you're an asshole or you're not kind, people eventually don't want you as a mate. And unfortunately, online it's very difficult to signal two and three, so you can signal one. And when everyone has access to everyone, women who have a much finer filter for mating, because the downside of sex is so much greater for them if they get pregnant, so they have much finer filter. They end up all being drawn or expressing interest to a much smaller group of individuals. So what the dynamic is, you have 50 men on Tinder, 50 women on Tinder. 46 of the women will express all of their interest to just four men.... which leaves 46 men vying for the attention of just four women. So, if you apply the Gini coefficient to online dating, it's got the same Gini coefficient as income inequality in Venezuela, so mating inequality is greater than income inequality in Venezuela. And what it leads to is what I call Porsche polygamy, and that is that men who are able, who are the top 10% in terms of attractiveness online get 90% of the interest. So, that does not lead to good behavior or establishing long-term relationships. Kind of 50 to 90 percentile do okay, but the bottom half of attractiveness of men based on online attractiveness are totally shut out of the market. And as a result, in America, one in three males under the age of 30 has not had sex in the last 12 months. And I find people hear the term sex and their mind goes different places. I think of it as the key step to an elemental foundation of any society, and that is relationship. So, in the US, what's happened with online dating is it's amazing for the top 10% of attractiveness of men, it's okay for the top half, it is a disaster for the bottom half. And when I say attractiveness, I mean by very crude metrics. So, if your Tinder profile, I went to MIT, I just started at KKR, and my Rolex accidentally is visible in my profile picture, and I'm geolocated living in Manhattan or living in, uh, Beverly Hills, you're gonna get a massive amount of attention. The bottom half, who are not able to express anything other than wealth, which they may not have, are totally shut out of the market. And the knock-on effect here is that we're producing too many of what is the most dangerous person in the world, and that is a young, broke, and alone man. Uh, so the guy who attacked Salman Rushdie, uh, uh, recently in the US, that wasn't about the fatwa, that was about a young man living in his mother's basement. When you hear about mass shooters in the US, you know who they are before you know who they are. So, we are producing, uh, an enormous cohort of economically and emotionally non-viable men, and I think it's bad for society. I think it creates an existential risk for us. I think women, as a result, uh, don't have as many, uh, find there just aren't as many economically emot- or emotionally viable men as they would like. Women are graduating at double the rates of college as men now. For every one male graduate in the next five years of college, there's gonna be two women. And you think, "Well, okay, it's time women, it's time women leveled up. They're finally getting their due. Okay." But the, this has, just realize, this has huge societal impacts because women made socioeconomically horizontally and up, men horizontally and down. In sum, women with college degrees typically aren't interested in men without college degrees, so we're seeing less household formation, lower birth rates, and these things usually stunt an economy. Uh, so I think it's a big issue, uh, and again, I think it comes down to providing more young, more opportunity for young people in general. I think if you had sort of gender-specific affirmative action towards men, it would just become so politicized and heated that it wouldn't be worth it. I think you need a massive leveling up of all young people that I think will disproportionally help young

9. 33:51 – 37:34

   How do we get young men laid?

   1. SGScott Galloway33:51

      men.

   2. NANarrator33:51

      How do we get those bottom 50% of young men laid? (laughs)

   3. SGScott Galloway33:55

      (laughs) I think you need to make them, first and foremost, more economically viable.

   4. NANarrator34:00

      Hmm.

   5. SGScott Galloway34:00

      Um, I think more job opportunities. I think it builds confidence. I think you need to get them out of the house. I think it's vocational programs. I think it's opportunities to go to college or get some sort of certification. I think it's things as basic as social service or more opportunities for them to get together.

   6. NANarrator34:17

      Community.

   7. SGScott Galloway34:18

      Yeah, and I think it's a certain amount of education that, uh, embrace some of the things that are wonderful to be about being a man. Being aggressive is fine. Be physically fit and strong. Uh, I think we're blessed with, uh, and this is true of men and women, I'm a big fan, uh, I believe that a, a forward-looking indicator of your success is the amount of time you spend sweating versus watching other people sweat. Any person under the age of 30, man or woman, should be able to walk into any room and think, "If shit got real, I could kill and eat everybody or outrun them." One or the other.

   8. NANarrator34:49

      (laughs)

   9. SGScott Galloway34:49

      And it's not about being ripped, it's not about being skinny, it's about being a stronger version of yourself. You'll be happier, less prone to depression, more attractive to other mates. You'll be kinder, um, because you will feel more confident. So, I think ex- uh, real phy- embracing physical fitness. Young people have, one thing that's terrible about young people is they've gotten unhealthier consistently the last 50 years. Um, I think social service, and I think figuring out institutions and means, whether it's school or social service, so they can meet each other, develop friendships, fall in love, have more opportunities, um, to have, not only make relationships but have guardrails. Young men need guardrails. They need a girlfriend, a job, to tell them, "No, you need to put on a shirt and get into work. No, you can't get high and drunk every night. No, if you want to continue to have sex with me, you need to get your shit together." I think that's really important for a young man. Especially young men. And young women need it as well, but just not as much. So, I think what you have is a generation of young men that have no motivation, no guardrails. They get their dope hit of addiction on Robinhood. They don't have the mojo to get out there and meet women as much because they're watching so much porn. They get, they get this illusion that they have some sort of worth or affirmation when they say angry things on social media that they get rewarded for. They become, they start blaming other people, specifically they start blaming women, and they become much more prone to misogynistic content. They start believing in conspiracy theory. They're less likely to believe in climate change. In sum, they become just really shitty citizens, and we're producing just a massive amount of these individuals. And the scary part is we'll just ignore the weirdo and put them in the co- corner. The problem is the government doesn't ignore them because we're very misogynistic when it comes to our elected leaders. In the US, we've been producing more female college graduates than male college graduates for the last 40 years, but still only 28% of our elected representatives are female.... people, societies, men and women conflate leadership quality with height and depth of voice. So, we will always, at least in the US for a long time, elect more men. And who do these men appeal to? How do they get elected? They appeal to this cohort of conspiracy-driven, misogynistic, anti-government men, young men. These young men will always have overrepresentation in government, which leads to elected leaders saying that they believe the elections are rigged-

   10. SBSteven Bartlett37:09

       (laughs)

   11. SGScott Galloway37:10

       ... that, that stoke nationalist fears, that blame immigrants. I mean, really gr-, really hateful stuff. And so not only are these individuals, uh, dangerous and unproductive, but what's even more unproductive is they will have a disproportionate voice in our politics because the easiest way to get elected is to tap into the tribal instincts or motives of this, of this cohort.

10. 37:34 – 43:10

    Misogynistic content

    1. SGScott Galloway37:34

    2. SBSteven Bartlett37:34

       You said misogynistic content there, and, um, one of the things that came to mind when you said that was Andy Tate.

    3. SGScott Galloway37:40

       Yeah.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett37:41

       Are you familiar with-

    5. SGScott Galloway37:41

       Yeah.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett37:42

       ... this person?

    7. SGScott Galloway37:42

       Yeah.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett37:43

       Is Andrew Tate's message a symptom of, um, what you've described?

    9. SGScott Galloway37:48

       100%. Uh, you know, we live ... Look, it's easy to credit your grit and your character for your successes and blame the markets for your failures. And so when you have a young man who is failing, he's looking for culprits, and then you have someone come along and say, "It's not your fault," and, and they start saying that the reason you can't find a date, it's women's fault. It's their fault, it's not yours. It's not that you haven't developed the skills or demonstrated the discipline to develop the attributes that others find attractive, it's their fault. And I think it's very, um, dangerous, and most of it's a grift. The individual you represented claims it's not your fault and that by my 49.95, you know, learn how to be successful program. It really is a grift. Um, and people, you know ... Trump is sort of a, a version of that, right? I mean, if you think about what's happening in America, the Democratic Party is basically becoming the party of educated women, and the Republican Party is becoming the party of uneducated men. So yeah, I think, uh, I think that those types of individuals are perfect examples of trapping, uh, kind of falling into this really ugly, you know, uh, blame others kind of, uh, uh, gestalt in our society. I think it's very unfortunate. I think we also on the ... I, I have no idea what your politics are, Steve. I consider myself a progressive. I think progressives have to take back masculinity, and that is we have to define what masculinity means and show a vision. Why are all the dudes these conservatives?

    10. SBSteven Bartlett39:23

        (laughs)

    11. SGScott Galloway39:24

        So, I mean, I'll give you an example. I'm a profane and vulgar person, and on the left they immediately complain- conflate. I've cursed several times on this show. I talk about sex very openly and very crudely. That doesn't mean I'm not, that doesn't mean I'm not a feminist. It does mean I don't have progressive values. So, I think the left needs to take back profanity and vulgarity, and I think we need to take back masculinity. I, I see masculinity as a manmade co- societal construct, but to ... we need to identify it and then ask young men to foot to those skills. And I see it as very basic, in a very basic way, acquiring the skills and strengths so you can advocate for and protect others, whether it's physical strength, mental strength, financial strength, kindness, intelligence. And I think saying, "Okay, it's great to be a man. Express your masculinity." And by the way, masculinity isn't just the domain of people who are born men. Women can demonstrate masculine features just as men can demo- demonstrate feminine features. But I think the left or progressives need to take back this notion of masculinity, and we've sort of, we've sort of emasculated on the left men, because to be pro-man, to even acknowledge masculinity is somehow to be anti-female on the left, and that's not true at all. You know who wants more men? Women. Or that's what I find. So, I think that, uh, key to restoring balance, if you will, and not having our party split across gender lines and pull this generation of failing young men out of this hole is to redefine masculinity as something more evolved, more thoughtful, that involves intelligence, that involves kindness, that involves strength. But also on the left to say, "It's okay to be a man. We can acknowledge our differences. It's okay to be aggressive." You know, when, when Russians pour over the border in Ukraine, you want some of that big dick energy.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett41:13

        (laughs)

    13. SGScott Galloway41:14

        You know, it's ... Uh, uh, there are some features of, of distinct to, uh, uh, uh, uh, men that is really important in our society and should be celebrated, and all of it has been, in my opinion ... Not all of it. A lot of it has been on the left conflated with toxicity, and there's some of those attributes that can lead to terrible behavior, but most of it is a good thing in our society. Most of it is needed.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett41:38

        Quick one. Some of you may know we've got a brand new sponsor on this podcast, American Express, and you've got a brand new exclusive offer for a limited time only, which I can't wait to tell you about. From the 18th of October to the 16th of November, American Express is offering new card members a 60,000 point membership reward as a welcome bonus when you join, when you spend a minimum of 8,000 pounds across the first three months. This is simply a thank you for joining American Express. And for those that don't know, you can use your American Express Business Platinum Card points in exchange for various rewards such as booking travel, holidays, gift cards, and so much more. So essentially, you're rewarded with huge prizes for just using their card to spend on your usual purchases. And I've had a look through at what 60,000 points can get you. So, if you'd like to find out how you can get your hands on your new American Express Business Card, then search American Express Business Platinum Card to find out more.As you might know, Crafted are one of the sponsors of this podcast, and Crafted are a jewelry brand, and they make really meaningful pieces of jewelry. And this piece by Crafted, when I put it on, for me, it represents courage, it represents ambition, it represents being calm and loving and respectful and nurturing, while also being the antithesis of that, seemingly the antithesis of that, which is, um, sometimes a little bit aggressive with my goals and determined and courageous and brave. The really wonderful thing about Crafted jewelry is it's super affordable, it looks amazing, the pieces hold tremendous meaning, and they are really well-made. There was

11. 43:10 – 46:19

    The arch of happiness

    1. SBSteven Bartlett43:10

       a big smile on the front of your book.

    2. SGScott Galloway43:12

       Yeah.

    3. SBSteven Bartlett43:12

       Part of the reason why you put that, what looks like a smiley face on it, is because, because of this arc of happiness-

    4. SGScott Galloway43:18

       Yeah.

    5. SBSteven Bartlett43:18

       ... that you describe.

    6. SGScott Galloway43:19

       Yeah.

    7. SBSteven Bartlett43:19

       That was quite surprising to me. What- what do you mean by an arc of happiness?

    8. SGScott Galloway43:22

       Well, across- across almost every culture, the correlation between age and happiness is a smile. So, 0 to kind of 25 is beer, Star Wars, you know, making out, prom, college football, or, you know, Premier League football. Uh, 0 to 25 is usually pretty happy. 25 to 45 is what I call the shit gets real years. You realize that distinct of what your parents or your uni told you, you're not gonna have a fragrance named after you or be a member of parliament. You have kids. You have economic stress. Someone you love a great deal gets sick and dies, your parents, right? Life gets very hard, very fast, 25 to 45, and generally speaking, these are the least happy years. And then something wonderful happens, usually in your late 40s or early 50s, and that is you start recognizing the finite nature of life. Maybe you have some economic security. Maybe you've established relationships. Maybe you have these really wonderful things that are less awful, that look, smell, and feel like you, called kids. You realize that life is short. You start finding apprecia- I don't know if you remember this, Steve. Do you remember going out with your parents and your mom, and your mom would like... a salad would come and she'd stop the table and say, "Look at how beautiful this salad is."

    9. SBSteven Bartlett44:36

       Yeah.

    10. SGScott Galloway44:37

        Or just admire the flowers. And you'd think, you used to think as a kid, like, "What the fuck?" Like... and when you realize, it's so weird when you turn into your... I stopped outside my house, uh, there's a garden, and I just couldn't stop marveling at the garden. The gardens here, I've never seen anything like it. We have this garden across from us in the park, and I'm like, "Well, who are the gnomes that come out at night and manicure this thing so perfectly?" And I'm not into botany or horticulture, and I can't stop marveling. I wouldn't have done that in my 27-year-old self, but I do it in my 57. I find, you find joy in new things. You find joy in the mundane as you get older, and you get happier. And the happiest generation, the happiest age cohort is the cohort that should be the least happy 'cause they're not healthy, is old people. So, what the learning here is that if you wake up at 35 and you have a couple kids and you have a spouse or you have a job, you know, and you think, "Shit, this is hard. I'm not that happy," recognize that's part of the journey and just keep on keeping on. You know, happiness waits for you in most instances. Uh, so happiness is absolutely a smile. And so I think it's helpful just to know that, that as you move into your income-earning years, as you move into your mating and child-rearing years, and the depth of work, and your parents start aging, it's stressful and it's hard. And if you're unhappy or feel unhappy at times, that is normal. That's part of the journey. And for me, it's h- it was helpful to read that, because I'm looking forward to all the happiness that's kinda coming my way and I can feel it as you get older. You just start finding joy in weird places.

    11. SBSteven Bartlett46:18

        When was

12. 46:19 – 49:44

    The pit of your arch

    1. SBSteven Bartlett46:19

       the- the pit of your arc in your life? When was, when were your hardest years as it relates to happiness?

    2. SGScott Galloway46:26

       Um, well, losing my mom was tough for me. Um, but I think that the- the pit for me, you're an entrepreneur, the highs are really high and the lows are really low. The closest I can equate it to is, is, uh, having a business like having a kid. You conceive the thing, it looks, smells, and feels like you. And when it does well, it's just like when your kid scores a goal or is doing great or seems happy. There's just no joy like that. When something ki- You have your world of work, you have your world of friends, and you have kids. You don't have kids yet, Steve, but you'll find this out. When something goes wrong with one of your kids, the whole universe shrinks to what is wrong with your kid. I mean, nothing else matters. And you just can't sleep. You're stressed. You're upset. You feel failure on a cosmic level 'cause this instinct that pours over us is if your kid is failing, you have failed on a more cosmic level 'cause you haven't been able to protect that kid. It's the same way with a business. So, when your business fails, you just... it's impossible to remove yourself from that failure. My lowest moment, probably professionally, was in the great financial recession of 2008. In '99, I was a young man and was wealthy on paper. I'd started several e-commerce companies. I didn't realize most of it was not my fault, that it was the market. And by the end of 2000, I was broke. I lost everything through the dot-com crash. Clawed my way back to some level of economic security in 2007. Smacked again in 2008. Lost almost everything. And then my young son, or my oldest, had the poor judgment to come marching out of my girlfriend. So, I was broke and I had a son, a newborn. And a combination of the disappointment professionally, where I was now 40 years old and wasn't economically where I thought I would be, was really upsetting and- and disappointing. And then the stress, when you're a dude with no spouse or kids, you can kind of dance between the raindrops. If you need to, you can sleep on a couch. I always knew I could make a living, I could support myself. But living in New York, uh, having, uh, what felt like economic failure, business failure, and a kid, and it's like, "Okay, my failures are now this kid's failures."That was really stressful. Uh, it was also very motivating. You know, I had made some money, so I had made enough money to live kind of a, a kind of a, a, a, a fake wealthy life. I had nice clothes, a nice apartment, I could go to St. Barts. I had just enough money to give the illusion of success. But there's no faking it when you have kids. This person's dependent upon you, I was living in New York, it's impossible not to make a good living in New York with kids. Um, and so that was wildly stressful. It was like, "Okay, this is no longer about me. When I fail economically, I'm failing as a species, I'm failing as a dad." Uh, that was a rough time, 2008, 2009 was rough. But it was also very motivating because I got very serious and started working very hard. And again, I didn't see my kids, we had another kid two and a half years later, I didn't see much of my kids until the age of five. I, you know, I'd try and get home for bath time, but I was very focused on getting my household back on economic firm footing again. But that was very stressful.

13. 49:44 – 55:51

    Your biggest personal pit

    1. SGScott Galloway49:44

    2. NANarrator49:44

       That's your biggest, sort of, professional failure. What about your biggest personal pit?

    3. SGScott Galloway49:50

       Pit. Um-

    4. NANarrator49:52

       And what did it teach you?

    5. SGScott Galloway49:53

       Oh, I don't know. I, I, I think, i- are, are both your parents still alive?

    6. NANarrator49:57

       Yeah.

    7. SGScott Galloway49:58

       Okay, so one of them will get sick and die, and that is, uh, uh, the, the har- the two things I found that kind of turn you into an adult are when you lose one of your parents, it just, the harshness of it is so unthinkable. As a species, we have an inability to wrap our head around death for good reason, otherwise we'd all just be freaked out and not willing to take risks and not hunt animals for fear they might kill us, not take risks, never go outside. So, we purposely can't understand it. We can't imagine it. You can't imagine that this person's gonna be gone and it is over. That is devastating and it, it also just brings this harshness of life, like, really present in front of you. But at the same time, it creates tremendous perspective that, wow, the mortality rate's 100%, my kids are gonna have the same tragedy when I die. And I think it, I think it can liberate you and realize that, okay, if I feel embarrassed, if I feel scared about risks, if I'm beating myself up over a mistake I made, you know what? It really doesn't matter that much. You should be kinder to yourself. You should be more forgiving. There's great work by my colleague at NYU, Adam Alter, on palliative care where he surveys people who are weeks from the end, and they have a lot of regrets, they, they wish they'd lived the life they want to live. Whether it was being o- more open about their sexuality, being who they wanted to be with, going to the career they wanted to go with, they were living their lives for other people is a huge regret, or society. They wish they'd stayed in better contact with friends. But more than anything, their number one regret is they wish they'd been less harsh on themselves. And that is, again, life isn't about what happens to you, it's how you respond to what happens to you. And when someone dies and you realize the finite nature of life and that we all have the same end coming, I think it's liberating 'cause what you realize is when you say something stupid in a board meeting, even when you have a business fail, when you pick a stock and it gets cut in half in two weeks and you're just hating on yourself, when you say something stupid at a party, when you say something unkind unwittingly and you're just like, "Jesus, what was I think-" and you're just beating yourself up, realize it's, the person you're worried about, what they think of you, your situation, it's gonna go really fast and it's gonna be over. And all you're gonna have is the people that miss you. So, you don't, y- y- you need to forgive yourself and you need to realize what feels important in the moment isn't that important. And I found it very liberating. I was devastated losing a parent, and it was really my only parent, but at the same time, it just gave me a lot of perspective. And then I think the second moment in your life where you start to grow up is when you have a kid. Because up until that moment, and I'm naturally a selfish person, it comes e- it comes very easily to me, but it's the first time in your life you're more concerned with someone else's wellbeing. And it's, it's, it's a strange sense to want someone else, to be more concerned about someone else's wellbeing than yours. I mean, truly more concerned. And it's somewhat liberating. When I was your age, on Friday I'd start getting stressed like, "What fabulous people am I hanging out with? What amazing thing am I doing? What, how can I hang around more interesting and hotter people? How can I have better experiences? Sex, more sex with hotter people, make more money, make more money." Now, it's like, "Okay, we got soccer practice Saturday morning, we got a play date Sat-" It's all of a sudden just about them. I mean, it's literally just about them. And for the first few, few years, that takes some adapting, but what you find, I find it's relaxing now to be more focused on someone else, I find is e- is, is relaxing and rewarding instead of just all you all the time, right? So, losing someone and gaining someone I think are the kind of key moments where you sort of, uh, grow up. I mean, losing your parent is something that happens to everybody. Some, the economic strain I have, most people would pray for, but personal troughs, uh, I've been really blessed so far.

    8. NANarrator54:08

       You talked a little bit there about self-doubt.

    9. SGScott Galloway54:10

       Yeah.

    10. NANarrator54:11

        Um, do you, do you struggle with self-doubt?

    11. SGScott Galloway54:13

        Oh, yeah. I, I have a huge imposter syndrome, but I think it's healthy and I think most people have it, I think. Um, yeah, I, I, uh, sure. Uh, every time I've raised money, I've thought I was fooling them and committing fraud. Like, "Oh, God, I just raised $37 million for my ed tech startup, what were they thinking? You know, what were they thinking?" Um, I don't, you know, (laughs) weird things, like, uh, I, I get, I'm sure you get fan mail or, uh, if people-... who listen to my podcast or wanna meet me or have dinner with me. I don't like to do it because I always find they're gonna be disappointed that the person they think I am, I'm just not that interesting or that cool. Um, I, I always worry that at the end of the day, my natural state will be to b- be broken and alone, that that's kinda like what my personality trait's ... where they'll lead me. Um, I have those fears every day. I have huge imposter syndrome. Um, yeah, so I, I ... But again, it, it, it's motivating. It's like, "Well, okay, prove yourself and them wrong." So I, I wouldn't describe myself ... I'm not a, um, um, um, um, I'm confident on certain levels, but I always feel like a little bit, like every time I have an achievement, that I've like kinda fooled everybody.

    12. NANarrator55:28

        Do you know where that comes from? Because I, I, I'm not sure if that's everybody.

    13. SGScott Galloway55:32

        Yeah.

    14. NANarrator55:32

        I sit here with a lot of people, so I see a variance.

    15. SGScott Galloway55:34

        Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, I really don't know. I don't know where, um, I don't know where it comes from. But yeah, I definitely have something whispering in my ear, like, you know, "Who the fuck are you kidding?" Like, yeah, "Uh, you, you've temp- you fooled them temporarily, but it's all gonna come crashing down." Yeah,

14. 55:51 – 1:00:07

    I used to be an asshole

    1. SGScott Galloway55:51

       I have that.

    2. NANarrator55:51

       When I was reading through a lot of things you'd said about yourself, you, you also had called yourself an asshole a few times.

    3. SGScott Galloway55:57

       Mm-hmm.

    4. NANarrator55:57

       (laughs) What do you mean by that? And why were you an asshole?

    5. SGScott Galloway56:04

       Uh, you know, some- someone who wasn't kind, someone who put their own needs ahead of other people. I wasn't very kind to my first wife. Uh, I should've been, uh, uh, as an early manager, I should've been kinder to my employees. Yeah, an asshole. (laughs) Why?

    6. NANarrator56:21

       Why? (laughs) Or how? (laughs)

    7. SGScott Galloway56:22

       I don't know. I, I guess because I could, or I, I don't know. I like to think that I've gotten better as I've gotten older. I think in America, there's this, um, at least, and it's changing, in the world I grew up when, and I think it's kinda started with Steve Jobs. You know, here's a guy who ... I think there's this unfortunate gestalt in American business that if you're talented and super nice, you're talented. If you're talented and a bit of an asshole, you're a genius. It was seen as leadership to be in a room and, and get angry, or point out the problems, or dress somebody down. I think that's changed for the better in the last 10 years. But everybody was trying to be Steve Jobs. And there's no getting around it, he was cruel at work. He denied his own blood under oath to avoid child support payments while it was worth a quarter of a billion dollars, and that's the Jesus Christ of our information age economy. This was not a kind man. And so, in the tech community in the '90s, it was, uh, kinda rewarded to be, you know, you were a fighter, right? To be harsh. And I think a lot of that has changed for the better, you realize. And I, uh ... Just as you get older, you're just younger, you're selfish. And I think I'd gotten some early success, so I, I don't think I realized the extent to which luck played a role in that. But I've gotten better. I'm, I'm, you know, less of an asshole.

    8. NANarrator57:59

       What has allowed you to increase your self-awareness?

    9. SGScott Galloway58:01

       You just get older. You just get ni- ... You know, you just get older. You realize ... I remember, I had one moment and it, uh, I was at a, I was in a meeting, uh, but it was running my own companies, uh, before I joined NYU. And I remember like, just nothing that big a deal, but this guy was presenting and he was, had some slides, and I'm like, I'm like, "Go back." I'm like, "Your slides make no fucking sense." I'm like, "D- just don't, don't get us all in a room and present this garbage." Just kinda said it like that, those exact words. And he finished the presentation, and then we were all, you know, afterwards ... And I went to the men's room, and he was in the men's room, and he was next to me at the urinal, urinal, and I saw his hand shaking. He was so rattled by the thing that he had like a small palsy or whatever you call it. And I remember thinking, you know, I was finally getting to an age (laughs) where I could start to be a little bit more self-aware and kinda like, "What's the point of all this fucking success if you just make other people feel like shit? Like, what's the point?" And I thought, "Why did I do that?" And some of it was to communicate that this was unacceptable, and it was. The data that this person was presenting was unacceptable. But it would've been just ... But part of it was for me to take the opportunity to elevate my own stature by diminishing someone else's. And that's entirely wrong. And what you realize as you get older is that you don't need to diminish other people's status to get to the same point. I should've taken him aside and said, "Come on, man, that data was ... You can do better than that. This is what was wrong with it. This is what, how I think you should present the data. Realize that you're presenting to a group of people who are gonna notice th- that data contradicts the data on the next slide." And instead, uh, uh, my need to feel, I don't know, important or whatever, put my own needs ahead of theirs. Uh, I think there's a lot of that. I don't think, I don't think it's a unique attribute. Um, but I, I'd like to think that I've starched most of, most of that out of my professional life. I think you just get older, uh, hopefully you get kinder, you get more self-aware. But, oh yeah, I look back on my career, there's a lot I'm not proud of.

15. 1:00:07 – 1:06:10

    What are you still working on personally?

    1. SGScott Galloway1:00:07

    2. NANarrator1:00:07

       What are you still working on, personally?

    3. SGScott Galloway1:00:11

       Uh, uh, being present, you know? Your, uh, regret and, uh, uh, upset about the past, anxiety about the future, uh, take you so out of the present. Trying to enjoy my sons at boarding school. The d- most difficult thing about moving here is I come home, my boy's not there, my f- my 15-year-old. That's really strange for me. You'll see when your kids are around, they become a limb. Like, when you're not around your kids, you feel as if something's wrong. I mean, the first, the first day away from them is amazing, and then it gets awful.You're like, oh God, this is wonderful. I can sleep in. You know, I like, I used to like business travel, especially when they're babies. Babies are tough. But now you feel like, you're like, you're like walking around without a limb. It just, it's just weird. And my son's in boarding school here and so coming home and not having him home is just very, uh, very strange. So when, when he was home yesterday and he is only home for a day and a half on the weekends, trying to be very in the moment, trying to be present. I have a tough time. One of my talents as an entrepreneur, I think, is that I'm always thinking about work and focused on shit. So when I show up Monday morning, I've kind of got a headstart 'cause I'm thinking about problems, I'm thinking about stuff. But the problem is you're not that present and it's very hard to balance those two because it's so competitive. I mean, I would imagine, I look around, I, I, I know your success. I would imagine you're constantly thinking about work, right? Thinking about new, new ways to improve things, people you can reach out to, emails you should send to encourage people. You know, just constantly thinking about it. Once you have kids, it's very hard to manage that balance 'cause you wanna be present. So I'm trying to be present. Also, I'm trying to slow time down. Time is falling off a cliff for me. Um, I have a chat group with my college friends. It was yesterday, you know, when we were in college. It's, it's just flown by the last 30 years, which means it's gonna go even faster and I'm gonna be 87. So trying to slow time down, trying to be more present. That's what I'm working on. And uh, uh, you know, just trying to be kinder. I think, I think everyone should from day one just think, okay, how can I be more kind?

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:02:31

       How do we slow time down? My, my, uh, my friend asked me the other day what my superpower would be and that's what I said. I said, "I wish I could pause time."

    5. SGScott Galloway1:02:38

       Yeah.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:02:38

       And my, like, I think it's toxic, my answer. But I was like, 'cause then I could get my work done-

    7. SGScott Galloway1:02:43

       Yeah. (laughs)

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:02:44

       (laughs) Yeah. And continue with, with my life and then maybe I could DJ and learn, you know, some other things. But my- I've always said that that would, that would be my chosen superpower. But how does one practically slow time down so that 30 years doesn't fly past?

    9. SGScott Galloway1:02:56

       So when you're a dad, one of the things you realize is you have this image that, belief that your kids are gonna be into World War II history and CrossFit. Those are the things I'm interested in. And what you find out is kids have their own interests, and if you wanna be a good dad, you have to lean into their interests. Otherwise, you're just not gonna have a very strong relationship with them 'cause they, they're selfish. Kids are inherently selfish and they're gonna be like, "Oh, well, dad's really into World War II history so I'll go to the, you know, the, the British War Museum and I'll find it fascinating." You know, that doesn't happen. My kids... So yesterday I ended up at life-size Monopoly.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:32

        (laughs)

    11. SGScott Galloway1:03:32

        Which is this life-size Monopoly game somewhere... And it, for me that's the seventh ring of hell.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:03:38

        (laughs)

    13. SGScott Galloway1:03:38

        That's just, that's just hard. But what you try to do to slow time down is I immediately go into like, okay, just ignore the thing. You know, check your email, be a good dad, just do, get through it, get through it. I find that you can slow time down by getting into stuff, like trying to like... So I really try and get in- get into life-size Monopoly and engage with my child and like be a little bit over the top about it. And when they do cheers, scream lou- like try and just get really into things because if you want time to pass, it will. It'll cooperate. But when you get really into stuff, even though you think it's stupid and cheesy and you're like, can't help but think, God, this is like Chinese water torture, um, I find that slows it down. Also find leaning into your emotions slows time down because it makes you more present. Um, I didn't cry or laugh out loud from the ages of 30 to 44. For 14 years I didn't cry once and I didn't laugh out loud. I for- I lost the capacity to uncontrollably laugh and to cry. I just kind of forgot how to do either of those things. And emotions are things you have to practice. So I remember the first time I started crying and the first time I really laughed out loud with friends, I thought, God, both these things feel great. And I started getting really into those things and feeling guilt when I do something stupid or like trying to really embrace my emotions because that indicates what's important to you, what moves you and inspires you, what upsets you, what pisses you off. And I find emotions, like real raw emotions when you register them and absorb them and like lean into the messy part of yourself, I find that slows time down. So getting into stuff and registering your emotions. And as a business person, you're taught to be a little bit stoic. You have this weird sense also as a man of masculinity that men don't feel their emotions, but you s- you start forgetting what's important to you. You start forgetting what like is real- your- things you're into. Like what, what do you find hilarious? What makes you well up with tears because you find it so moving? Without being- without doing that stuff, you forget what's important to you. You forget like... You kind of lose your individualism. Uh, anyway, so there's... And you talked to Simon Sinek. There's a bunch of people who have a lot of means. Uh, those are my, those are my two tricks.

16. 1:06:10 – 1:09:42

    Why is health so important?

    1. SGScott Galloway1:06:10

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:10

       In your book, The Algebra of Happiness, the third section is about health. Um, you spoke earlier about the importance of it. I've really recently, over the last two years I'd say, learned the importance of health and make sure I, I work out pretty much every day. What are, why is health so important? You know, I've, I've been on my own journey to understand it, but, um, one of the things you said was that the most common trait among CEOs is that they exercise regularly. Um, and even thi- you said, you made comments about alcohol being bad for us. Did you, did you take time to learn that? I know you've been working out since you were very, very young.

    3. SGScott Galloway1:06:42

       Mm-hmm.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:43

       But the, the overarching role it- of our health in everything, um...What have you learned about that and the importance of it?

    5. SGScott Galloway1:06:51

       Well, it's kind of where it all starts. I mean, this is not a rental. (laughs) You know, th- this is not a dress rehearsal. Your body is it. I mean, you look, you, you look like an athlete. What do you do every day? What do you...

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:01

       Thank you. I will clip that. Um, (laughs) and I'll put that in my bio

    7. NANarrator1:07:04

       (laughs)

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:04

       ... first of all. (laughs) Um, I do a mixture, so I, I train for an hour every day, um, Jemima's in my fitness group, so-

    9. SGScott Galloway1:07:11

       Yeah.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:11

        ... about 90% of days a year, we, we train. Um, yesterday was CrossFit. Uh, yeah, yesterday was CrossFit, so.

    11. SGScott Galloway1:07:18

        Yeah. So look, uh, if you could do something that would make you less depressed-

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:23

        Hmm.

    13. SGScott Galloway1:07:24

        ... make you more likely to be successful, broaden your selection set of mates, I mean, wouldn't w- wouldn't you wanna take that drug every day? It's called exercise. We're, we're happiest as a species in motion surrounded by others. We've been hunting and gathering. So the things you're gonna remember in your life are usually not the CrossFit class, but walking around Rome with your family, and your kids complaining, but being outside in some form of exercise w- with people you care about. So, uh, and exercise and feeling strong, uh, I mean, it's been my antidepressant. If I don't... You know, I got here four, three or four days ago, I've only worked out once, I can feel on myself. I'm angrier. I'm not as nice. I don't feel as good about myself. It's, I think for a lot of people, it is, it is the easiest means to an antidepressant. It's the closest thing we have to a youth serum. You have this basically 24 by 7 security camera on in your brain trying to figure out if you're adding value. That's the bad news. The good news is it's got terrible resolution and you can f- fool it. So if you're caring for other people, caregivers generally live longer because your brain will sense that you're caring for other people, you're social, you're touching people, you're concerned, and it releases a hormone that lets you stay alive. New mothers typically do not die. Um, if you're exercising intensely, it fools the camera into believing that you're hunting prey or building housing and it says, "Let's keep this person around longer." So it is a great antidepressant. It's a great use serum. Um, I find you're just kinder, you're nicer, you're more confident. So, you know, it's, uh, I, again, uh, the thing that the Fortune 500 CEOs have most in common, it's not the schools they went to, it's not even their, it's not even their ethnicity. It is gender only. 483 of them are men. But more than any practice or attribute, it's that they work out four to five times plus a week. Physical fitness, again, I- it's one of my algorithms. You should not watch other people sweat for any longer than you sweat. And I, you know, i- i- d- i- if, if you're watching other people sweat four hours a week and you're sweating one hour a week, you're in trouble. Do not... You have to sweat more than you watch other people sweat.

17. 1:09:42 – 1:15:31

    Whats the most important thing for brands to understand about advertising?

    1. SGScott Galloway1:09:42

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:09:42

       The other thing we have in common is, um, our backgrounds in advertising-

    3. SGScott Galloway1:09:46

       Yep.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:09:46

       ... and, and brand. You, you speak a lot about, um, branding and advertising. Um, I sat here with Rory Sutherland, and that was one of our real best-performing episodes. So I didn't realize there was such a demand f- on- from our audience in terms of practical advertising knowledge. He talked a lot about Apple and Tesla and the secrets there.

    5. SGScott Galloway1:10:00

       Mm-hmm.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:00

       W- how has the, the, the, the, the lands of advertising and a brand building a reputation changed in your lifetime? And what is the most important thing for brands to understand now or, or some of the important things for brands to understand now if they are to be successful?

    7. SGScott Galloway1:10:17

       Yeah. So my first job in business school, I started a company called Profit Brand Strategy, that's now about 500 people. Uh, now it's just called Profit. And the basic notion was, it was based on the principles of my professor my second year, David Aaker, who's considered the father of modern branding. And it was that the intangible associations with a brand or set of products or services are the only sustainable advantage. That if you can wrap, uh, a set of products and services with these brand codes of masculinity, European elegance, youth, and then pound away at those associations using this incredibly chep- cheap, e- efficient medium called broadcast advertising, you can take a marginal shoe, salty snack, marginal car, and get amazing margins on it. So that w- that's been the, uh, eh, from the end of World War II to the introduction of Google in the '90s, the algorithm for creating massive shareholder wealth was find a mediocre product, wrap it in amazing brand codes that make people feel more patriotic or more youn- or younger, stuff the channel with it and print money. The PNGs, the PepsiCos of the world, you know, the Coca-Colas, these were the economic titans of yesteryear. The sun has passed midday on that because our weapons of diligence, whether it's Google or Tripadvisor or Amazon Reviews now gets us to the best product without the benefit of this weapon of diligence called brand. When I come, came to London, I used to stay at the Four Seasons or the Mandarin Oriental. Why? 'Cause someone else was paying and they're always an eight. And then I went on Tripadvisor and I went on my social graph and I found out the c- people love the Connaught Hotel or people love the Ferndale Hotel, so I just, I started staying at the Haymarket. Why? I like a place with a nice gym and I wanna p- stay at, with, hang out with people who are younger and cooler than me. So I started staying at boutique hotels. So all of a sudden, product became the bomb again and then your ability to embrace these new mediums around social became more important than broadcast advertising. So the traditional metrics of branding, the traditional vehicles for branding, a brand identity and broadcast advertising that I've been preaching in brand strategy, the sun has passed midday. If you look at my curriculum and the majority of curriculums in marketing departments, you could argue that we're just training people to go to work at Unilever or General Mills and be laid off 24 months later. Uh, branding has become much more about innovation and actual product quality. Now that extends into how you discover the product, how you i- absorb the product, the community around it, but, you know, Tesla is a better product. Apple used to be an underpowered product with a great brand. Now it's a great brand with a superior product. So these things, Airbnb is a much better product. These things are gen- Google is-... 10X better than what was there before it. So, supply chain, uh, design, the way you absorb the product, its ease of use. You know, it's just, it's moved from kind of what you'd call a brand economy to, for ba- lack of a better term, an innovation economy. So, rather than taking classes on advertising, I say take classes on supply chain or analytics, or really understand industrial design. You know, there was a general feeling that all product quality had maxed out, and then the internet came along and unlocked all this product innovation. So, cars, they felt had hit kind of a peak in terms of product quality, and then all of a sudden with the internet and GPS you could, you could tune a c- car up, uh, wirelessly. You know, you could unlock the doors. Uh, e- e- there was all kinds of crazy things you could do with it, uh, in addition to, uh, in addition to EV. I mean, there's just been so much actual innovation around the product. And what do the most valuable companies in the world have in common? They either spend no money on advertising or they're spending less. Apple's the strongest brand in the world, at least the consumer brand, I would argue the strongest brand in the world

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:14:04

       Yeah.

    9. SGScott Galloway1:14:04

       ... than universities. But it's reallocated $6 or $7 billion out of broadcast advertising into its channel, into stores, to build 550 temples to the brand. And I think that is almost part of the product. My 12-year-old and I were bored yesterday so we went to the Apple Store. So, that's kinda consuming the product, and I end up buying screensavers and new cases that I'm sure are 90 points of gross margin that I could find at Fnac or Best Buy or somewhere for less money. But we wanna be in that store and in that environment. So, it's, it's moving out of pre-purchased broadcast advertising into the distribution channel and into innovation. But the traditional, the traditional norms of marketing or branding as I taught it, that shit's over. Don Draper has been drawn and quartered. If you're watching a lot of advertising, it means your life hasn't worked out. The majority of people who are technically literate or, um, uh, wealthy can avoid 80-90% of advertising now. They watch Netflix, they, they subscribe to Spotify, they live in cities where they have, uh, local officials that demand you can't see a billboard from a park. Um, so advertising is a tax on the poor and the technologically illiterate, so it's moved to more distribution and innovation. But for God sakes, don't, you know, avoid the d- uh, falling into the trap of thinking that the masters of the universe are branders or advertisers.

18. 1:15:31 – 1:18:39

    How do we keep people innovating?

    1. SBSteven Bartlett1:15:31

       If they are innovators, then how does one make, make themselves or their team more innovative? This is a question I get asked all the time-

    2. SGScott Galloway1:15:38

       Yeah.

    3. SBSteven Bartlett1:15:38

       ... when I speak at conferences or to businesses as well. You know, how do we, how do we make our 500 people in our company inno- innovate? 'Cause you'll see the CEO standing, you know, in front of the, the board meeting on, or the, the all hands and say, "We need to be more innovative."

    4. SGScott Galloway1:15:50

       Yeah, what does that mean, right?

    5. SBSteven Bartlett1:15:51

       It does fuck all.

    6. SGScott Galloway1:15:52

       Yeah, yeah.

    7. SBSteven Bartlett1:15:52

       We all know that. But w- by design, how do, how do we create an innovative mindset ourselves or innovative teams?

    8. SGScott Galloway1:16:00

       That's a tough one. I don't consider myself, um, an expert on culture. Although, it's clearly out there, like I think of HBO.

    9. SBSteven Bartlett1:16:08

       Hmm.

    10. SGScott Galloway1:16:09

        HBO. If there's a show that people are talking about, I don't know if the same is true, but in the US people are talk-... If there's a show people are talking about at the water cooler, it's Euphoria, it's Succession, it's generally an HBO show.

    11. SBSteven Bartlett1:16:21

        Mm-hmm.

    12. SGScott Galloway1:16:21

        And they have about a third of the budget of some of the other streaming networks. So, there's something about that culture where they're able to come up with kind of breakthrough creative.

    13. SBSteven Bartlett1:16:29

        Some companies just seem to do that time and time again.

    14. SGScott Galloway1:16:31

        Yeah, agreed.

    15. SBSteven Bartlett1:16:32

        And so it's a culture thing at the heart of it. Even S- Apple, you, you know-

    16. SGScott Galloway1:16:36

        Yeah.

    17. SBSteven Bartlett1:16:36

        ... especially in the era of Steve Jobs, they seem to take s- some unbelievably scary, um, bets that paid off.

    18. SGScott Galloway1:16:44

        Yeah.

    19. SBSteven Bartlett1:16:44

        So, obviously a lot of them don't, some of them don't, but Amazon's the same. AWS, the Kindle.

Episode duration: 1:28:15