Trinny Woodall: How She Went From Drug Addict To $300m Business Empire!

1. 0:00 – 1:58

   Intro

   1. TWTrinny Woodall0:00

      I look at your skin, and I'm going to come over there-

   2. SBSteven Bartlett0:02

      Oh, no. Oh, f-

   3. TWTrinny Woodall0:03

      Then I go round here.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett0:05

      Trinny Woodall. Beauty queen of the screen.

   5. TWTrinny Woodall0:07

      Founder and CEO of Trinny London. One of the fastest growing companies in Europe. Have a great day. (instrumental music plays) I went through phases in my early 20s of not knowing who I was and turning to drugs. I went to rehab.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett0:18

      I heard that you'd been kicked out the first time for playing a porn video.

   7. TWTrinny Woodall0:21

      Yeah. It backfired. Rehab was a huge beginning of the change in my life, and I went into a whole new world.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett0:28

      Only a 20-year career in media. Trinny took a left turn in the makeup industry.

   9. TWTrinny Woodall0:32

      Here we are, $250 million later. Welcome to Trinny London.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett0:37

       A lot of people have this stigma that you can't start a business at 53.

   11. TWTrinny Woodall0:41

       Crap. Age is just a number. But you need energy, passion, perseverance. I sold my house, hardly earning any money, but I thought, "I'm never gonna give up." Ask yourself, how much do you want to be successful? What are you prepared to give up?

   12. SBSteven Bartlett0:54

       You strike me as someone that's incredibly driven. What was the cost?

   13. TWTrinny Woodall0:56

       Very big question. Probably Audley.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett1:01

       You had a partner who was unwell.

   15. TWTrinny Woodall1:02

       Yeah. And the thing you think will never happen, happens.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett1:06

       He died by suicide.

   17. TWTrinny Woodall1:08

       Yeah. Where do you get to in your brain when you are so worried about your children that you can convince yourself that the best thing is that you're not in their life anymore? Was there anything I could have done to stop it?

   18. SBSteven Bartlett1:33

       I think this is fascinating. I looked at the backend of our YouTube channel, and it says that since this channel started, 69.9% of you that watch it frequently haven't yet hit the subscribe button. So, I have a favor to ask you. If you've ever watched this channel and enjoyed the content, if you're enjoying this episode right now, please can I ask a small favor? Please hit the subscribe button. It helps this channel more than I can explain, and I promise, if you do that, to return

2. 1:58 – 3:44

   What Made Trinny Woodall

   1. SBSteven Bartlett1:58

      the favor, we will make this show better and better and better and better and better. That's a promise I'm willing to make you if you hit the subscribe button. Do we have a deal? (instrumental music plays) Trinny, you've got a very, um, distinct personality.

   2. TWTrinny Woodall2:18

      Yeah.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett2:19

      You, you, and you know that. You're well aware of that, right?

   4. TWTrinny Woodall2:24

      I know who I am.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett2:26

      But your, your personality is very... You're very straightforward-

   6. TWTrinny Woodall2:31

      Yeah.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett2:31

      ... um, and all of these sort of defining traits of your personality, and I'm wondering if that was, when that personality was formed or when it started to, to emerge.

   8. TWTrinny Woodall2:41

      Things happen in your life that, that begin to, you know, fine-tune and define who you're going to be. And I went definitely through phases. You know, I went through phases in my late teens, early 20s, of, of turning to drugs just to not being happy with who I was, not, not feeling... not knowing who I was. Sometimes, people turn to drugs because they just don't know who they are and they want to... You know, they have an inner lack of confidence, and I definitely had an inner lack of confidence. And outwardly, when I talk to people and I look back at the time, they might say, "You just were this very mesmerizing person." And I just remember that internal sense of feeling so lost, so profoundly lost. And so when I got clean at 26, 27, that was a huge beginning of the change in my life. I was so relieved that my 20s were over. So relieved. Because it, you know, it was like that was the beginning of that, that, whew, wash that away.

3. 3:44 – 9:01

   Starting Drugs at 16, My Addiction, and Going to Rehab

   1. TWTrinny Woodall3:45

      And that was a big moment for me to begin to work out who I was. That was the first moment probably.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett3:53

      You, you, um, using drugs at 16, I presume was quite a recreational thing.

   3. TWTrinny Woodall3:56

      Yeah.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett3:57

      I think we all dabbled-

   5. TWTrinny Woodall3:58

      Yeah.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett3:59

      ... at, at that age. Um, when did it, when did you realize that it wasn't a recreational thing anymore and that it was an addiction?

   7. TWTrinny Woodall4:07

      I think I was about 22, and I felt my life didn't have direction. And my, my family were very frustrated with me. They felt I'd changed. And like any family where they have a child who has addiction, they, they can, if they don't know, they just see change, and they think, "Why is my child changing?" You know? So, I think they saw that, and it was a relief to say, you know, "I, I, I use drugs." And I remember my dad said, "Well, now you've told me, you can stop." And I remember my brother saying, "I think it might be harder than that." So, I went to rehab, and I then left the rehab after a period of time, and-

   8. SBSteven Bartlett4:56

      You left the rehab, or were you kicked out?

   9. TWTrinny Woodall4:57

      I... No. No, I k- I was kicked out of the first rehab, but I then went to meetings. And there's one thing about recovery, is that when you first get in recovery you, you need to let go of your old friends who you've been with who are using, and you're about to make new friends. So that moment is... Loneliness can take you back to old habit. After about, I don't know, maybe six months, I missed my old friends, and I hadn't made enough new ones, and I saw them and then, you know, I relapsed, and then I went back to meetings, and then you're in this horrible little in-between place. When you know about recovery and you continue to use, it's not so... There's something about an ignorance of recovery. You know, there's a kind of sense that you don't know there's another way, so you don't feel guilty every time you do. And so what it brings is it brings guilt every single time. I had three really, really good friends, and we were all using one night, and we, I said-... "Let's all make a pact, we'll go to rehab tomorrow." And two of them had been, and one of them had never been, but we made this pact. Late night, you know that thing, "We're gonna do this, we're gonna conquer the world, and we're gonna go to rehab." So, then, the next morning, I woke up and I still had that feeling, which is rare. So, I called a therapist that I knew, and I said, "I need to go, but I have a window of opportunity which is so small. I need to go literally in the next two hours 'cause I am scared for myself that I'll change my mind." So, he got me s- in somewhere, and stayed there for five months. And I sold what I had to pay for it. Some very tragic thing happens in that time, and one of the people died. And then-

   10. SBSteven Bartlett6:57

       One of the people that said they were gonna go to rehab with you?

   11. TWTrinny Woodall6:59

       Yeah. And then, I went to a halfway house in Weston-super-Mare for seven months, where you kind of live off eight to 10 pounds a week, which pays for your fags. And I worked in an old people's home. And then I came back to London a very different person. And then, in that following year, another one of them died. And then by the end of two years, they'd all died. So, I think I always had this feeling, whatever I might do, you know? I might do many things again, but I will not take drugs again. And you do the, in recovery, you do it a day at a time. And since that day, I have never taken a drug again. And that was that bi- that's probably that biggest shift I had at that age, to really think, "Now I have this second chance. What do I actually want to do with my life?" You know? What, not what I feel other people expect me to do.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett7:58

       If I was a fly on the wall in your life, at, at your, when the addiction had you the most, what would I have seen?

   13. TWTrinny Woodall8:05

       You wouldn't have seen anything that I was feeling inside, 'cause that's what I was very good at. So, outwardly, you would kind of think, you know I worked in the City, I was trading commodities, I was, I held down a job, you know? You would see this person who seemed to be running around doing a lot of stuff. You would see that. Yeah. So, mine wasn't jacking up in the street, not being able to function on a daily basis. Um, but it was one where appearances were so important compared to... you know? So that matching your inside to your outside is probably my biggest journey, you know, of how can I, what I feel inside is how I share with you now.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett8:56

       Mm-hmm.

   15. TWTrinny Woodall8:56

       And, you know, I am 59, and that's where I've got to. I have a lot more to do. But

4. 9:01 – 12:37

   Impostor Syndrome: Projecting a Wrong Self to the World

   1. TWTrinny Woodall9:01

      I, it took me a journey to get to a place where I feel very comfortable in that feeling and in that belief.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett9:10

      Matching the inside with the outside. So, the outside, I would've seen someone who was very busy and apparently, you know, professionally successful in the City, uh-

   3. TWTrinny Woodall9:18

      Not feeling it, but sort of acting it, do you know that?

   4. SBSteven Bartlett9:20

      Acting it. On the outside.

   5. TWTrinny Woodall9:21

      I mean, my God, we know that one.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett9:22

      And then maybe-

   7. TWTrinny Woodall9:22

      Fake the CV, act it, you know, be kind of, big up the job that was actually smaller than it was. All of that shit.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett9:29

      And then on the inside?

   9. TWTrinny Woodall9:31

      Feeling, feeling, you know... I hate to say the word, 'cause I hate, I hate labels. Imposter syndrome is the worst l- can I just say it's the worst label? It's the worst label ever, because it, what it denotes is that you are an imposter, um, for how it's used for now. So, to me, imposter syndrome is more that you haven't yet learnt enough, and if you learn something, you won't feel so much of an imposter. This is what imposter syndrome is, what I'm referring to. It's that feeling where you are so different on the inside from what you project on the outside that you are an imposter inside your own body. And that, to me, is what I think imposter syndrome is.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett10:16

       What's the, what's the cost of, of that?

   11. TWTrinny Woodall10:19

       That at some stage, you can't keep doing it, and you ha- something has to give. And something always has to give, and, and it's whether you, it's which path you're gonna take, you know?

   12. SBSteven Bartlett10:32

       'Cause there'll be a lot of people listening now that are in a job or a situation where they, they have that feeling, that niggling feeling-

   13. TWTrinny Woodall10:38

       Mm-hmm.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett10:38

       ... that they're in the wrong place.

   15. TWTrinny Woodall10:40

       Yeah.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett10:41

       They might be held there by social groups, or expectation from their parents-

   17. TWTrinny Woodall10:47

       Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett10:47

       ... or whatever it might be, but something's holding them there.

   19. TWTrinny Woodall10:49

       Yeah.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett10:49

       Maybe fear of uncertainty.

   21. TWTrinny Woodall10:51

       I would say, if somebody is listening to this and they're thinking, "Do I have little bits?" Just ask yourself, you know, "Do you love what you do?" The job you're in, if we're talking about work. "Do you love what you do? Do you like this environment of where you work? Do you feel people make a better contribution than you, you know? Is, that's what's making you feel insecure? If so, what do you feel when people have meetings that you don't know?" Go and fucking learn it. Go and learn it. Go and listen to podcasts. Go and read some books. Just learn it, because knowledge is, is powerful. And when you have knowledge and you walk in a room, you automatically think, "I have so much more to contribute."

   22. SBSteven Bartlett11:33

       If, if I answer one of those, that I challenge myself and I go, "I don't like where I'm working and I don't like it-"

   23. TWTrinny Woodall11:38

       Yeah.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett11:38

       ... and I'm, you know, a commodities trader in the City, for example, and I just d- I hate it."

   25. TWTrinny Woodall11:42

       Yeah. Leave it, but have a plan. But leave it. Like, if you hate what you do... We spend 16 hours a day, between commuting or if you're in a higher position, thinking about the company, working. We spend much more of a day working than sleeping. So, you gotta love it.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett12:01

       Mm-hmm.

   27. TWTrinny Woodall12:01

       You've got to love it. You know, I was like, in my early 20s, I was one woman, 64 men on a trading floor. And I-... hated it, and I dressed in men's clothing, and I went to Rossetti and got the men's shoes. And I got the tailor to make me a suit. All the men would drop their trousers in the, on the trading floor, and I'd go in the ladiesroom and get, you know... I'd pretend to have a deep voice, so I was on the phone selling Anglo American Fund so my clients thought I was a man. I mean, you know, (laughs) I did all this stuff. I hated it so much, Stephen. And I would go, I would take the Tube to Tower Hill. We were at the World Trade Center in, uh, London. I'd have the Financial Times

5. 12:37 – 16:19

   Got Kicked Out of Rehab

   1. TWTrinny Woodall12:37

      on the outside and the Daily Mail on the inside.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett12:39

      (laughs)

   3. TWTrinny Woodall12:39

      That was my full extent of who I was. And, you know, I left it.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett12:46

      Were you an attention seeker more generally in life? 'Cause when I r- heard that you'd been kicked out of rehab the first time for playing a porn video-

   5. TWTrinny Woodall12:54

      Yeah.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett12:54

      ... I thought... (laughs)

   7. TWTrinny Woodall12:56

      That, that was, that was a, a w- a funny one, but not funny in the end. Um, it was a terrible rehab. I was with somebody, um, uh, to... last night in New York, and we were going to this funeral of this friend of mine who was, like, 43 years sober. And, um, I discovered I'd been to the same place with her. It... and, um, we-

   8. SBSteven Bartlett13:25

      Rehab? Same rehab?

   9. TWTrinny Woodall13:25

      Yeah, uh, but at different times. And she just said, you know, "It was the most fundamentally shaming place ever." You know, rehabs now are very different, but it was a very, very shaming place. And it would be closed down now. It wasn't... it didn't have a good way of dealing with things. So, in that whole scenario, there was definitely that feeling that you're, you're, you're thrown in with people you don't know, and you reveal your life. And it was a time when you would write down your life story, and then... In rehabs nowadays, 'cause I visit friends in them or whatever, you would kind of... people help you navigate why you did things in your life. But in this one, (laughs) they did the stuff where they would get 20 people to critique how bad your life had been in a room and, and judge you for it. And it was... I mean, just, like, looking back on it now, at the time, that was the only way recovery worked in rehabs in the UK. But it was just... it was kind of fucking appalling. And she reminded me last night. So when you bring up this thing of that, of that, um, porno film, and I think it was that sense of, "Let me just do something that w- people will find funny-

   10. SBSteven Bartlett14:43

       (laughs)

   11. TWTrinny Woodall14:43

       "... 'cause we're having such a shitty time here."

   12. SBSteven Bartlett14:45

       Mm-hmm.

   13. TWTrinny Woodall14:45

       And it backfired, and it was just... you know, I was chucked out.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett14:49

       What I haven't been able to pinpoint is the... y- 'cause at least from the outside looking in, your life was... you know, you had a great job. You had this, um, addiction which didn't seem to interfere with your work. So, you know, when I sit here with someone like Macklemore or Russell Brand, or even... I remember s- speaking to Steve-O. The- they talk about their addictions and, you know, he was, he was on a s- I don't know, four or five-day heroin binge, and he drove a car... He said he was gonna... I think he drove a car through a house and then-

   15. TWTrinny Woodall15:14

       Yeah.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett15:14

       ... was threatening to jump out of the window-

   17. TWTrinny Woodall15:15

       Yeah.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett15:16

       ... when... you know, he, he ultimately ended up in rehab. But it didn't seem... I, I can't identify the, the symptoms that drove you to go, "I can't do this anymore."

   19. TWTrinny Woodall15:25

       I think we have... Everyone has a different story, externally, of, "I did this and I did this," and there's a bit of, "I did even more than you." You know?

   20. SBSteven Bartlett15:38

       Mm-hmm.

   21. TWTrinny Woodall15:38

       There's a... uh, uh, there's this whole thing in, in... that, you know, addicts maximize their using and alcoholics minimize their drinking. All right?

   22. SBSteven Bartlett15:47

       Mm-hmm.

   23. TWTrinny Woodall15:47

       And that's why alcoholics can take longer to get into sobriety and, and addicts can take shorter, because also drugs can kill you quicker.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett15:56

       Mm-hmm.

   25. TWTrinny Woodall15:57

       Um, so there are... there's that kind of, you know... And I think also... I don't know. It's, it's, it's different. But, um, maybe I don't talk so much about the crazy things I did.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett16:10

       Oh, okay.

   27. TWTrinny Woodall16:11

       Yeah. 'Cause I think we all do crazy things.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett16:15

       Yeah. I mean, we've-

   29. TWTrinny Woodall16:15

       You know?

   30. SBSteven Bartlett16:16

       ... we've all done some crazy things that I-
6. 16:19 – 18:03

   Your Media Career

   1. TWTrinny Woodall16:19

      I, I feel that... I have a daughter who's 19.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett16:24

      Sure.

   3. TWTrinny Woodall16:24

      And I wouldn't talk about crazy things I did.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett16:26

      Mm-hmm.

   5. TWTrinny Woodall16:27

      Yeah.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett16:27

      Okay. So, we move on from there. And then the next sort of 10, 15 years of your life, you have this media career. How aligned were you with this chapter of your life?

   7. TWTrinny Woodall16:34

      Um, so when I did TV a- and writing, I really loved that. I think what was very nice is we developed this, these women who found us a breath of fresh air. I love the fact that people would say, (sigh) "You know, I read your book and it's changed how I think about myself," or, you know. And at the time, when we look back at What Not to Wear, it's a very divisive show. At the time, it made a lot of women, and women that I meet now who watched the show at the time, tell me the impact it had on them to think about themselves differently. But I enjoyed it. I enjoyed traveling around England and making over women and having that journey. And over, you know, over a week, you saw the metamorphosis of a person you worked with. And you saw them at the beginning and at the end, and then we kept in touch with many of the women. And then you would hear about their marriages and their babies, and they're life-changing. And, and th- you knew there was a tiny contribution you'd made to that switch in them-

   8. SBSteven Bartlett17:34

      Mm-hmm.

   9. TWTrinny Woodall17:34

      ... turning the switch on to feel different.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett17:37

       Why did it end, did the show?

   11. TWTrinny Woodall17:39

       We'd gone from doing a series of the... IT- with ITV a year and writing a book a year to doing three or four shows. I took, on average, about 55 flights a year. I left London on a Sunday night, I came back on a Friday. I had a f- seven-year-old daughter. And I had a partner who wasn't always well. So, it was just at a stage

7. 18:03 – 25:01

   Dealing with My Husband's Addiction

   1. TWTrinny Woodall18:03

      where I thought, "I need to readjust how my personal life is, and I need to think what can I do now, because this doesn't work."

   2. SBSteven Bartlett18:12

      ... I had a partner that wasn't always well. I remember reading a line in your book where you said, "99% of the things we worry about don't happen, but that 1% happen to us."

   3. TWTrinny Woodall18:20

      Mm. And he said it to me. (laughs)

   4. SBSteven Bartlett18:22

      Is that what he said to you?

   5. TWTrinny Woodall18:23

      Yeah. He would always say it. I mean, I always remind Lila, "What did Dada say?" when she's worried about stuff.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett18:31

      And he said, he's the one that said that, "99% of the things we worry about don't actually happen?"

   7. TWTrinny Woodall18:34

      Yeah.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett18:36

      I had a partner who was unwell. Unwell in what way?

   9. TWTrinny Woodall18:38

      Addiction.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett18:40

       He was addicted to-

   11. TWTrinny Woodall18:41

       Yeah.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett18:43

       And you, you met him when you were 35, right?

   13. TWTrinny Woodall18:48

       No. No, I met him when I got clean. I met him when I was 27.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett18:52

       Oh, you got married when you were 35.

   15. TWTrinny Woodall18:54

       Yeah. And he was in recovery.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett18:57

       Oh, okay.

   17. TWTrinny Woodall18:59

       Yeah.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett18:59

       So, okay, you met, met when you were younger. You, um, went through recovery. He went through recovery as well-

   19. TWTrinny Woodall19:05

       Yeah.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett19:05

       ... but then relapsed?

   21. TWTrinny Woodall19:06

       He had a motorbike accident, and he was very badly hurt, and he took painkillers.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett19:15

       And got addicted to the painkillers?

   23. TWTrinny Woodall19:16

       Yeah.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett19:18

       What is, what is, what is that like? 'Cause people think of painkillers that don't know addiction to painkillers, and they think of para- acetaminophen or something.

   25. TWTrinny Woodall19:24

       Mm-hmm.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett19:25

       My ex- only experience with painkillers was taking a paracetamol maybe four years ago.

   27. TWTrinny Woodall19:30

       I think when you're in a relationship with somebody who has a form of addiction, there's an unpredictability and an inconsistency in how they turn up every day. And I think in any times when it's not great, you end up, to an extent, having the crumbs off the table. It's like you're so holding onto those moments when everything's good that you try and ignore what isn't working.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett20:10

       And at the same time, I was thinking about, well, you got married in the year that you were starting your business, your tech company. It's a lot to deal with. If you've got a, a partner at home that you're married to that's ho- is struggling with addiction, you're starting a business.

   29. TWTrinny Woodall20:21

       Yeah, but they were well at that time.

   30. SBSteven Bartlett20:23

       Okay.
8. 25:01 – 32:32

   Losing Him to Suicide

   1. TWTrinny Woodall25:01

      makes sense, and I missed it.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett25:10

      The, the circumstances of his death are particularly complicated-

   3. TWTrinny Woodall25:15

      Mm-hmm.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett25:16

      ... because he, he didn't die by natural causes.

   5. TWTrinny Woodall25:18

      Mm-hmm.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett25:19

      He died by suicide.

   7. TWTrinny Woodall25:20

      Mm-hmm.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett25:22

      And having sat here and spoken to people who've lost a partner or an ex in such a way, um, the feelings, uh, from what I've seen are com- are much more complicated.

   9. TWTrinny Woodall25:36

      I think anyone dying, who dies unexpectedly, whether from illness or anything, it's... Somebody is gone, you know? There's, that, that's the biggest fundamental of anything. The circumstances drive how differently people deal with death. So, you know, some members of his family wanted to believe there was a conspiracy theory. Some, you know, you, you, you suddenly have 101 kind of views on things and stuff that really confuses and complicates the fact that somebody has gone. You know, they've gone. Nothing is gonna bring them back. They have gone. But it leaves more questions. And then, you look at your part in something, you know? And that's every person who has had somebody commit suicide at some stage will say, "Was there anything I could've done to stop it?" You know, that's the first thing, for sure. If you love somebody, um... And the more I have learned about suicide, the more that you know that when people, when people talk about wanting to kill themselves, I'm not saying it happens less frequently to people who don't, but once somebody makes a decision that that's what they're going to do, they don't talk about it, you know? And you'd like to feel you'd pick up on it. But I think it's the hardest lesson to learn, but when you then come across people where you feel that you now pick up on those not saying things, that there's a lot of internalizing going on. And should you be reaching out and just talking, getting them to talk? Because people get themselves to a stage where they feel it's the only solution, and what's staggering is Johnny had hyper-vigilance around his children because he'd been in the Israeli Army, and he was a paramedic, and he had a really, it was a really tough, uh, situation. And he, he had from it post- traumatic stress disorder, which wasn't, um, acknowledged, you know, it wasn't, um, diagnosed until about 20 years later. But one of the things was his hyper-vigilance around his children, so he had, he was always so, you know, worried for their welfare. So you kind of have this thing of where do you get to in your brain when you are so worried about your children that you can convince yourself that the best thing for your children, who you love profoundly, is that you're not in their life anymore? (drinks) And that (drinks) is something that is so important, that we can help people who get to that situation, that they don't get to that final part of that situation. And it's understanding what to recognize, it's understanding, you know, and it's very hard to recognize. You know, I didn't recognize, (sniffs) and there were lots of (pauses) details of it which could've really upset me, you know, of things that were done wrong, just, were just like police stuff that was done... You know, lots of things which you could hold on, you can hold onto lots of things, (pauses) but you kind of have to let go. When I see people who have family who've died and they want to hold onto things, or get this thing... You know, and it's like all those things you might hold onto will prevent you to go through the process of grieving, because it will hold you in this place in time and you will just be sitting with that, you know, and you won't be able to work through. And, you know, when somebody dies, you need to work through these stages.... and acknowledge these stages, but not get stuck in something which eats you up. So, even though there were all these things that kind of could've eaten me up, I sort of knew. And I had a very good... There's a wonderful woman called Julia Samuel, and she wrote This Too Shall Pass and another book called Grief Works. I don't know if you've ever had her on your podcast. She's an incredible, um, grief counselor. And I saw her straight away. She came to my house when, when I knew, and I hadn't yet told Lila. 'Cause the first thing is you need to find the words of what to say. She, um, was a friend of my sister, and she gave me words. It's like you just feel so like this. I'm at a good place with it now, and I think that final thing was this m- the moment I had by myself when Lila went off and... for a week, and I just... I thought, okay, I'm very... I'm totally... You know, this is eight years later. But things take time.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett31:50

       So interesting how the, the process of grief, that- those first sort of eight years where you kind of compartmentalize, or it's not the right time to address it yet-

   11. TWTrinny Woodall31:58

       Mm-hmm.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett31:58

       ... because there's other things going on. And then eight years later, how it can show up in a moment of, like, solitude and-

   13. TWTrinny Woodall32:04

       Yeah.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett32:04

       ... in, in a moment of space and come out. It's interesting, 'cause I think there's so many of us, whether it's, uh, the grief of losing someone or the grief, grief of some other form of trauma that we have it compartmentalized, and it might be, um, impacting our lives in ways we don't, we don't understand.

   15. TWTrinny Woodall32:19

       Mm-hmm.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett32:20

       Y- I hear this a lot when I speak to people about, you know, their mood or, you know, they, they were a slightly different person through that period, but until they were able to kind of sit down and confront it and, and go through the process of grief, they, they didn't

9. 32:32 – 38:30

   Starting a Business at 53 & Its Struggles

   1. SBSteven Bartlett32:32

      realize that they had... it had changed them in some way. Eight years later-

   2. TWTrinny Woodall32:36

      Mm-hmm.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett32:37

      ... you have your moment.

   4. TWTrinny Woodall32:38

      Mm-hmm.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett32:40

      53 years old, you start Trinny.

   6. TWTrinny Woodall32:44

      Yeah.

   7. SBSteven Bartlett32:46

      Big smile on your face.

   8. TWTrinny Woodall32:47

      Mm-hmm.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett32:50

      You know, start- starting a, a business like that at 53, a lot of people have a, like, a stigma or a stereotype that you can't start a business in mid-life. You know, "You shouldn't be doing that at that point," or that, you know, "You won't be able to raise..." You know, all of those kind of stigmas around starting a business in mid-life.

   10. TWTrinny Woodall33:06

       Crap.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett33:07

       Crap, yeah.

   12. TWTrinny Woodall33:07

       Total crap. I started a business at 16 called... What was my first business? Bows Unlimited when I was at school.

   13. SBSteven Bartlett33:14

       Yeah.

   14. TWTrinny Woodall33:14

       I sold hairbows.

   15. SBSteven Bartlett33:15

       I know.

   16. TWTrinny Woodall33:16

       Um, and then I started a business-

   17. SBSteven Bartlett33:17

       (laughs)

   18. TWTrinny Woodall33:17

       ... at 53. So it's like, there's no other way to put it, that, that age is, is a number. It is just a fucking number, and you can either mention that number endlessly, or you can look at what energy do you have at that moment in time to execute on your dream. That's all it's... That's all you need.

   19. SBSteven Bartlett33:40

       Energy.

   20. TWTrinny Woodall33:41

       All you need. Well, you need a lot, but, you know, you need to feel that... You need energy, passion, drive, relentlessness, perseverance, resilience. Pick yourself up and just get fucking on with it. You need all of those things. But you need the energy so that you jump out of bed in the morning and you are on it.

   21. SBSteven Bartlett34:02

       Did it take time for you to cultivate that in the, in the passing-

   22. TWTrinny Woodall34:04

       No.

   23. SBSteven Bartlett34:04

       ... after Jo- after Johnny had passed? Was there like a... Do you know what I mean?

   24. TWTrinny Woodall34:08

       Because I did, I did, uh, Ready To before, and for that I was-

   25. SBSteven Bartlett34:12

       Right.

   26. TWTrinny Woodall34:12

       ... you know, I did 18 hour days for two and a half years. It's like it w- You know, it's, it's in me, that. I've, I've been a grafter for quite a long time. So-

   27. SBSteven Bartlett34:20

       And you'd been mulling this idea for many, many, many years.

   28. TWTrinny Woodall34:22

       Yeah.

   29. SBSteven Bartlett34:22

       And then, um, and then you finally put it into action. I, I, uh... Heard you say, "I started pitching in 2014 and it took me three years to launch."

   30. TWTrinny Woodall34:30

       Yeah. I'd started pitching in 2013, I think.
10. 38:30 – 42:00

    Overcoming Doubts When Starting a Business

    1. TWTrinny Woodall38:30

       they can sell." Well, how much do you want the business? How much do you want to be successful and start the business? What are you prepared to give up? Look at the long-term gain.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett38:39

       Was there any doubt, even a whisper of doubt? I say this in part because I looked back on when I started my business, I was keeping diary entries.

    3. TWTrinny Woodall38:46

       Yeah.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett38:46

       Um, and I was... I fe- I feel the same as you. There was no going back, there was definitely not a plan B.

    5. TWTrinny Woodall38:51

       Yeah.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett38:51

       My parents weren't speaking to me.

    7. TWTrinny Woodall38:51

       There's no plan B. Yeah.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett38:52

       I'm shoplifting pizzas at this point to feed myself.

    9. TWTrinny Woodall38:55

       (laughs)

    10. SBSteven Bartlett38:55

        I'm like, "I can only go forward, right?"

    11. TWTrinny Woodall38:57

        Yeah, yeah.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett38:57

        "I haven't paid my rent in three months."

    13. TWTrinny Woodall38:58

        Yeah.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett38:58

        "My rent is only 150 pounds in Rusholme."

    15. TWTrinny Woodall39:01

        Yeah.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett39:01

        Um, but then I... and I... So I r- recount that moment of my life as I, I, I zoom in on the ten- tenacity, and the certainty, and this conviction.

    17. TWTrinny Woodall39:08

        Yeah.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett39:09

        But then I look at these diary entries, and on this day, I'm, like, doubting myself a little bit. It didn't last.

    19. TWTrinny Woodall39:14

        Yeah.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett39:15

        But there was a, there was a day where it was like a rocky...

    21. TWTrinny Woodall39:17

        For sure.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett39:18

        You know? And that's why, you know-

    23. TWTrinny Woodall39:18

        For sure.

    24. SBSteven Bartlett39:19

        Yeah.

    25. TWTrinny Woodall39:19

        It's not all like... The thing is, the overarching theme is, I can't go back.

    26. SBSteven Bartlett39:24

        Yeah.

    27. TWTrinny Woodall39:24

        It shouldn't negate the fact you're going to have doubt, you're going to question h- you know? It's like, there's this thing, somebody will believe in it, but there was, like, another 10 meetings and nobody has. You know, you think-

    28. SBSteven Bartlett39:36

        Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

    29. TWTrinny Woodall39:37

        And also, at the end of an investor present- you know, when you inve- uh, present to investors, the real questioning of your integrity over your idea is how much you decide what was the last meeting they had in the room which they brought that advice to your meeting on a totally different business to kind of talk about the market or... I mean, the amount of times I've talked about, like, you know, "It's about growth, it's not about retention. It's about 70% new customers, 30% retention." And I was always saying, "No, it's 60% retention, 40% growth." But saying this when Casper mattresses was going high fly, was like, nobody would listen. I know now then why they didn't invest, 'cause their whole thing was, "Growth, retention, fuck it."

    30. SBSteven Bartlett40:20

        Yeah, yeah, yeah.
11. 42:00 – 45:23

    Using Investor Prejudice to Your Advantage

    1. TWTrinny Woodall42:00

       to convey?" Because if I believe this is a good idea, if I believe it has legs, what am I not getting through to them that I need to?

    2. SBSteven Bartlett42:08

       And that's the vision of the future, kind of?

    3. TWTrinny Woodall42:10

       It's a bit the vision of the future. It's like, there's a real classic that if you are a woman, generally, men, if it's predominantly males, they will ask, "How do you protect your downside?" And if I'm a man sitting here, they will say, "How do you maximize your upside?" It's a classic, all right? So when then-

    4. SBSteven Bartlett42:27

       So just to b- explain for people that don't understand, um, downside is basically like the stock-

    5. TWTrinny Woodall42:31

       How do you, how, how do you negate your risk?

    6. SBSteven Bartlett42:33

       Yeah.

    7. TWTrinny Woodall42:33

       So, so, you know, how do you protect your risk? You know, what happens if you have a problem with the product? What happens if you can't find the customer? What happens if bla, bla, bla? And maximizing the upside is how you're going to scale, how you gonna make that business bigger. So-... I thought to myself, "Okay. All right." So then when they would start to get to that little thing, I would say, "You know what? These three ways, like any business, is what I'll be doing. Now, let us focus on how we're going to maximize the upside." And just kind of gently, not insultingly, sometimes I was a little bit, you know?

    8. SBSteven Bartlett43:07

       So, you became aware of their prejudice and would counteract it before they kind of had a chance to use that as a way to, to kind of criticize them?

    9. TWTrinny Woodall43:15

       Yeah, you kind of want to bring in the conversation.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett43:16

        Okay.

    11. TWTrinny Woodall43:16

        But it took me a while, Steven. It took me, 'cause I had never gone to... You know, when I did investor presentations in '99, I did five, and I got it, you know? In those, t- two of them invested. It was a very different time in pitching a concept.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett43:30

        How did you counteract the prejudice that you knew was existing in those pitch boardrooms? Or did you? How did you deal with it?

    13. TWTrinny Woodall43:40

        It's difficult, because there's a part of me that thought... Like, I went to one, and he said, "I love the idea, but it will only be successful if you do it for millennials or gen Z, because they're the only people who are gonna buy like that. Because women of, of your age don't know how to buy makeup online."

    14. SBSteven Bartlett43:58

        Mm-hmm.

    15. TWTrinny Woodall43:58

        Okay? And at the time, 26% of people bought beauty online, all right? And of that 26%, maybe 15% were in the demographic that I said. But I said, "I'm providing personalization that will make a woman, and I will talk to women in a way of a language they understand, to think, 'Actually, maybe if I went online I'd be better diagnosed than if I went in store,' because she has this personalization." And, and then when it launched and those very first few people who had never shopped for makeup online did it, and thought, "This is better than me going to B. Jones," it was like, spread the word. Spread the word. And it built on itself. But at that time, when the man from this, uh, VC was saying that, and I was like... I left the room, and I thought, "I actually would not want this person to invest in my business anyway."

    16. SBSteven Bartlett44:49

        (laughs)

    17. TWTrinny Woodall44:49

        So, there is that maturity you can get of thinking... Because you've got to also... You know, when you're going for money, you very much feel the power is in their hands, and there's got to be something you bring into the room where you think, "Do I want these people-

    18. SBSteven Bartlett45:01

        Mm-hmm.

    19. TWTrinny Woodall45:01

        ... to invest in my business?" And to get to a stage where you're the one in a way on the back foot, 'cause you're wanting the cash, how can you then say to yourself, "Turn it around," you know? "Do I want these people in the business? Have they got something to contribute?" And asking them questions like, "What will you contribute? What do you do for your other VCs? I've spoken

12. 45:23 – 46:45

    Your Incredible Business Success

    1. TWTrinny Woodall45:23

       to a few. You know, you have this big thing saying that you get the CMOs together and whatever, but do you actually do that? And, and how does that happen to you?" And...

    2. SBSteven Bartlett45:31

       How much is this business worth in your perspective?

    3. TWTrinny Woodall45:35

       Don't give out valuations.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett45:37

       Oh, d- I read 180 million online. Ex- it's doing well though.

    5. TWTrinny Woodall45:42

       Yeah.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett45:43

       What, what can you tell me about the scale of the business to g- just to give us an inclination?

    7. TWTrinny Woodall45:47

       We've, you know, grown over 100% a year, um, over-

    8. SBSteven Bartlett45:53

       How many years?

    9. TWTrinny Woodall45:54

       ... five years.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett45:54

        Five years?

    11. TWTrinny Woodall45:55

        Um, yeah, we did 50-something million last year. Um, we, uh, we sell in 180 countries. We started skincare a year and a half ago. It's now 38% of my revenue. So, it's growing quite quickly. It has the highest retention. So, when I look at the business and I look at retention of product, for me, the value of the business, and look at what product base is there, are. So, that, to me, is an exciting place the business is going to. Um, we're localizing in different countries, so there's one thing to be sold internationally, but then when you localize, it takes a lot of, um...

    12. SBSteven Bartlett46:40

        Personalization across different countries

    13. TWTrinny Woodall46:41

        Yeah, it does. ... companies. And so, we, we did it when we're about

13. 46:45 – 49:39

    What Are Your Character Traits That Made Your Business Successful?

    1. TWTrinny Woodall46:45

       50% in the UK, and then we're about 23% in Australia. We're 10% in America.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett46:50

       That is a fantastic business.

    3. TWTrinny Woodall46:52

       Yeah.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett46:52

       And I would like to invest. What... When you think about your character traits and what you bring to the business, what, what is that, and how has that led the business to become successful? 'Cause I think in founders, we talked earlier about focusing on the thing you're good at.

    5. TWTrinny Woodall47:04

       Yeah.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett47:05

       What is the thing that Trinny is good at in this business?

    7. TWTrinny Woodall47:08

       I think I'm good at understanding how women react to things and what they want, and how you speak to somebody so they can hear it. I think that's probably what I know better than anyone else in the company.

    8. SBSteven Bartlett47:22

       How do you speak to someone so that they hear it?

    9. TWTrinny Woodall47:25

       Well, years ago, I did Oprah. And Oprah taught me a lot. And she was, she is an amazing woman. But when I used to do her shows, we would tell her stuff, 'cause we'd just done a book and it had become a number one Times bestseller in, in America. And it was like, she helped us do that. But she would tell them stuff I'd said, and then she would repeat it three times within that half an hour. She'd just repeat it, repeat it. And I said after with Oprah, "You, you always repeat." (laughs) She said, "Because it registers. They get reminded. They remember." So, that sense of you say something, and you say it three times in maybe three different ways so that by the end of that conversation, somebody walks away with a new thought in their head. So, there is that. And I don't consciously do that anymore. I think at the beginning I probably did, because I remember what she said, and then it, it got into a habit. But... And it's also remembering who you speak to. Because when you speak, when I do my contribution to, to Trinny London of, on social, I could be speaking to many different women. I could be speaking to a nurse on 18 grand a year who saves up every month to buy one thing. And I could be speaking to somebody who could buy 10 things and chooses to buy us, okay? So, it's quite a broad remit. But they all...... realize, because of what I've spoken about, the importance of actually buying things that really work for your skin and not wasting your money and- and not putting things on that are bad for your skin. I don't mean bad like green. I mean like don't do anything for your skin or just understanding what you should use is not what your best friend should use. And because I- I had very bad acne. I mean, like when you talked about your turning off the light.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett49:12

        Mm-hmm.

    11. TWTrinny Woodall49:12

        Okay. I used to decide what restaurant do I go into. Like if I was going out as- as an 18-year-old and I had this lighting, I would literally say, "Can we go to another restaurant?" Because you would see my acne pustules, um, coming down, and I would go like... I'd literally, I'd be like this for dinner. (laughs)

    12. SBSteven Bartlett49:28

        Mm-hmm.

    13. TWTrinny Woodall49:29

        So that obsession with my skin and the effect it gave on my confidence and put, was a lot of what I put into when we look at what ingredients are we going to use and

14. 49:39 – 55:31

    Are You Proud of What You’ve Achieved?

    1. TWTrinny Woodall49:39

       how are we going to use them. And we have a lab in England, you know. I'm proud of the fact we have a lab. We make things from scratch. We're not like, "Hey, let's put a label on here and say Trinny London." You know?

    2. SBSteven Bartlett49:47

       Are you proud of the business?

    3. TWTrinny Woodall49:49

       Very.

    4. SBSteven Bartlett49:50

       Are you proud of yourself?

    5. TWTrinny Woodall49:53

       Um, yes, I am when I remember to be. I mean, I get-

    6. SBSteven Bartlett49:59

       When I remember to be?

    7. TWTrinny Woodall50:00

       No, like-

    8. SBSteven Bartlett50:01

       You've crossed your arms. Look at the body language.

    9. TWTrinny Woodall50:02

       No. (laughs)

    10. SBSteven Bartlett50:03

        (laughs)

    11. TWTrinny Woodall50:04

        I am. I don't... It's very easy to... Well, I never get to a place of conceit. Um, many people are proud for me, and I sometimes find that challenging. Like I want to move the conversation on.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett50:20

        Why?

    13. TWTrinny Woodall50:21

        I don't know. I don't, I can't answer it, and it's just a thing, you know? But I'll have good friends of mine who've known me a long time who will just say, you know, very lovely things about having grown the business.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett50:36

        I- I often... I'm gonna have-

    15. TWTrinny Woodall50:37

        How do you feel on some? Because we got-

    16. SBSteven Bartlett50:38

        Yeah, no, no, no.

    17. TWTrinny Woodall50:39

        ... to discuss it together 'cause we must go through the same stuff.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett50:40

        No, I do, I'm asking questions, but I- I- I can relate.

    19. TWTrinny Woodall50:43

        But you are... So, okay, so- so give me your feedback first.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett50:45

        Well, when someone gives me a big compliment, at the same time, they're also r- reminding me of everything I could lose. And so I think my- my natural way of dealing with things is to, as you've kind of described, is that forward motion.

    21. TWTrinny Woodall50:56

        Mm-hmm.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett50:56

        That forward motion makes me feel stable.

    23. TWTrinny Woodall50:58

        Yeah.

    24. SBSteven Bartlett50:59

        So whenever someone comes to me and gives me a compliment about something I've achieved, it's- it's, um... I always say, like, chaos is stability and stability is chaos. It's a moment of stability that I don't like. Like just the idea of- of- of accomplishment-

    25. TWTrinny Woodall51:11

        Yeah. Yeah.

    26. SBSteven Bartlett51:12

        ... creates a stability that I don't like. I want chaos. I need that forward motion to feel stib- stable.

    27. TWTrinny Woodall51:16

        Mm-hmm. It's a weird one because it's like a lot of people would disagree with what you're saying in terms-

    28. SBSteven Bartlett51:22

        Yeah. (laughs)

    29. TWTrinny Woodall51:22

        ... in terms of, you know, sort of a self-worth guru who's saying you've got to- you've got to, you know, take a step to... A lot of friends who say, "Trinny, you need to take a moment to acknowledge how far you've come." And I think what you're saying is... I'm just trying to grasp exactly your thing of the chaos and stability. And I think-

    30. SBSteven Bartlett51:42

        I can explain it better.
15. 55:31 – 1:03:57

    What Does a Successful Decade Look Like for You?

    1. SBSteven Bartlett55:32

       and use my exclusive code CEO10 for 10% off. And if you already use Zoe, send me a DM and let me know how you're getting on. What is success to you these days? Like, what is... what does success mean for you? People ask me that all the time as well.

    2. TWTrinny Woodall55:45

       But, I mean, it's such a... when you hear that question, people think, "Oh, fuck." So make it specific. Like, so-

    3. SBSteven Bartlett55:51

       It's too generalistic.

    4. TWTrinny Woodall55:52

       So, what's... I- if you, if I... let's look, look at the next decade of your life.

    5. SBSteven Bartlett55:57

       Okay.

    6. TWTrinny Woodall55:57

       If I say to y- if we meet again in 10 years time and I say, you say to me, "That was a successful decade." Speaker 2: All right, that's a good way.

    7. SBSteven Bartlett56:03

       "What happened?"

    8. TWTrinny Woodall56:03

       Okay. Next 10 years, successful decade. Um, the one thing, this is the only thing where I will bring age into it, all right? Is I am 59. So, when I'm 69, do I want to be working so hard that I sort of miss friends' birthdays and don't get to, you know, take part in life of things outside my work? Because that's a big one. Like, when you're in your 20s and 30s, you can kind of like... all your friends are doing that too, you know, and in that same space. So, it doesn't matter if you say, "Look, in a month we'll get together, we'll all go for a weekend somewhere," because you're all doing it, so it's like you're on this thing together. But when you're me, probably of my friends, maybe 80% of them, their life is slightly different from what I'm doing right now. So... and that element of that friendship and those connection with people is fundamentally crucial to our feeding our soul. You know? And there's always that, you know, guy who, not the head of American Express, but he's like, you know, "Will I be remembered for how hard I worked?" You know, on the gravestone. There's that classic corny thing of like, "Will they remember how hard I..." you know? It's like, they won't. But whenever I read that, I think, "But they just had a nine-to-five job, and this is a passion." (laughs) You know? I always say that. I think this is so different because this is... because if I... if it was just a job, I'd probably say, you know, "I should slow down a bit," whatever. But I travel the world, I help a lot of people around the world, I meet a lot of... I was in Birmingham, um...

    9. SBSteven Bartlett57:40

       What about work-life balance, Trinny?

    10. TWTrinny Woodall57:42

        Yes, but this is the thing. It's like, I don't see my job as job and then there's work-life balance, because there's areas of my job which should be sociable things. So, I, I meet people, I have conversations with women every day. You know, on this, you know, social media thing, which is now a few, few million people, I have these women who know me really well. It's so interesting how you think, "Oh, but I haven't seen..." you know, I have my friends who have known me since I've been in my teens, but I have these women who are part of the Trinny tribe. They could be anywhere in the world, but they know me so well that like, I might do a little live and they'll DM me and say, "Trinny, I sensed this this morning. Are you okay? Do you need to take a breath?" You know? And then when I sh- I shared this... you know, that John had died, and, um... and so, you know, there were in- you know, they sent thousands of messages, and I read. I read everything people send, because if people make the effort to write a message... and on my Instagram I respond to everything. You know, I... we have a team of 11 people who... we have like 12,000 comments a week for Trinny London stuff. But I do all my Instagram because that's the beating heart of the women in my life and the feeling people are feeling. You know, whenever you have a business, you need to understand, what is the feeling people are feeling? So, in England, we have a big cost of living crisis. I still want to give people quality products that are premium. So, with all these things going on, how do I sense check this thing? How do I adapt the conversation so that it still is relevant to their life and they're just... so going back to this work-life balance, it's like they help me to sit for a second and like... one of them sent this message three days... they said, "Trinny, you have to remember to feel what you're going through right now, because you don't usually. You just rush through it, and you need to do it." This is someone I've never met before, ever, okay? (laughs) But they're just incredible women. And so my... when you, when you talk about a business, all right, when you talk about starting a business, my business is this passion for these women to feel great. And, and our sort of, you know... you always have these, what's your vision board and what's your mission as a company? But it's literally to leave a woman feeling better about herself than before she came into contact with me, with Fearless, with the podcast, with Trinny London, with whatever. So, that's my mission. I am here for a mission. I know that sounds like whatever, but I am. I know I am. You know, I know I am. I know that when... like, I know that during COVID-... when there were people feeling, in a full family of people, fundamentally so alone as women, I knew how important it was that we should get out and we should chat to each other. I knew it was, just to, like, really chat, really, like, share the sh- share the feelings so they could go, "Me too. Me too." You know?

    11. SBSteven Bartlett1:00:55

        So at 69, then, you're saying that you're gonna slow down and retire and have piña coladas on the beach?

    12. TWTrinny Woodall1:00:59

        No, I'm- didn't say that at all.

    13. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:02

        (laughs)

    14. TWTrinny Woodall1:01:02

        Did I ever say that?

    15. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:03

        So 69?

    16. TWTrinny Woodall1:01:04

        No. So you just said to me, "In the next 10 years." So the next 10 years-

    17. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:06

        Yeah.

    18. TWTrinny Woodall1:01:06

        ... what does success look like? It's that this community grows because the more women who feel like this will tell more women-

    19. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:12

        Yeah.

    20. TWTrinny Woodall1:01:12

        ... and I would like, at the moment, maybe we have a million women-

    21. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:15

        Mm-hmm.

    22. TWTrinny Woodall1:01:15

        ... and I would like that to be, in the next 10 years, 15 million women, actually.

    23. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:19

        Mm-hmm.

    24. TWTrinny Woodall1:01:19

        So that, I'm gonna put that number out there. I'm gonna now remember it. I'd like that many women. Because if you can get to that many women-

    25. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:25

        But then how are you gonna... I said that because you talked about changing the balance a little bit so you could be there for your social connections a bit more-

    26. TWTrinny Woodall1:01:32

        Yeah.

    27. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:32

        ... your friends.

    28. TWTrinny Woodall1:01:33

        Yeah.

    29. SBSteven Bartlett1:01:33

        If you've got a goal of 15 million women...

    30. TWTrinny Woodall1:01:36

        So how am I growing this business where I have people in place who can do things that I can do better than me?
16. 1:03:57 – 1:06:08

    Fearless: Your Book

    1. TWTrinny Woodall1:03:57

       two weeks ago, and I only did, like, eight emails. Which was just great.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:05

       (laughs) You wrote this wonderful book, Fearless. It's really, really surprising. It's surprising, beautiful, by the way.

    3. TWTrinny Woodall1:04:11

       Did you read any of it yet?

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:12

       Yes, I went through it.

    5. TWTrinny Woodall1:04:13

       Oh, you did? Okay.

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:13

       And I read the entire section on life. The other sections about beauty and style are a little bit more tricky. (laughs)

    7. TWTrinny Woodall1:04:18

       (laughs)

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:18

       But I read everything in the life section about, that's where I got some of those quotes from, and, uh, the stuff about imposter syndrome and self-belief and all of those things. It is a, a life advice book, it is a beauty advice book, it is a style advice book. Um, and it's just a gorgeous coffee table style book.

    9. TWTrinny Woodall1:04:32

       Have you seen? The thing is, this is me, okay?

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:34

        You want me to pass it to you?

    11. TWTrinny Woodall1:04:35

        Yeah, because I hate looking at pictures of myself.

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:39

        Mm-hmm.

    13. TWTrinny Woodall1:04:40

        So the whole point of doing this book was to say...

    14. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:42

        You hate looking at pictures of yourself?

    15. TWTrinny Woodall1:04:43

        I hate fucking looking at pictures of myself.

    16. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:44

        Why?

    17. TWTrinny Woodall1:04:44

        Is, I just do. So this is the book you'll have on your coffee table.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:48

        Ah.

    19. TWTrinny Woodall1:04:49

        Oh, look at that.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:49

        Ah, okay.

    21. TWTrinny Woodall1:04:50

        Can you see? So nice. Like, just, it will make you pick it up more.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:54

        Ah.

    23. TWTrinny Woodall1:04:54

        Because it's biased to have my face on the front. This is not biased.

    24. SBSteven Bartlett1:04:59

        Ah, no, that is beautiful. And it's a nice little message as well-

    25. TWTrinny Woodall1:05:02

        Yeah, exactly.

    26. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:03

        ... to have a statement about yourself.

    27. TWTrinny Woodall1:05:04

        Yeah.

    28. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:06

        Like... You know what? It's funny, wh- when I'm, when people come on the show and they have a product, I, I often try and spend some time, um, talking about their products and stuff. But the thing-

    29. TWTrinny Woodall1:05:14

        Yeah.

    30. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:14

        ... the thing in this case is having got to understand you-
17. 1:06:08 – 1:10:18

    Your Skincare Range & Top Tips

    1. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:08

       So everyone can-

    2. TWTrinny Woodall1:06:08

       Yes.

    3. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:08

       ... go pre-order that now?

    4. TWTrinny Woodall1:06:09

       Yeah, they can pre-order it now.

    5. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:10

       Wonderful.

    6. TWTrinny Woodall1:06:10

       Yeah.

    7. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:11

       Great.

    8. TWTrinny Woodall1:06:12

       So-

    9. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:13

       Highly recommend everybody goes and pre-orders it, 'cause it's a beautiful book.

    10. TWTrinny Woodall1:06:15

        Thank you very much. So fundamental skincare, whatever age you are or skin color you are or anything-

    11. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:23

        Mm-hmm.

    12. TWTrinny Woodall1:06:23

        ... is you should clean your skin properly.

    13. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:25

        Okay.

    14. TWTrinny Woodall1:06:26

        You should wear SPF-

    15. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:27

        Okay.

    16. TWTrinny Woodall1:06:28

        ... every day.

    17. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:28

        Yeah.

    18. TWTrinny Woodall1:06:28

        Whatever your melanin levels.

    19. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:30

        Yeah.

    20. TWTrinny Woodall1:06:31

        Cancer being the primary cause, but other...... aesthetics as well. Um, you should do something that regenerates your skin, and retinoids can do that.

    21. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:40

        Mm-hmm.

    22. TWTrinny Woodall1:06:41

        And exfoliants can exfoliate your skin. And you should keep your skin even, so vitamin C.

    23. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:47

        Okay.

    24. TWTrinny Woodall1:06:48

        So those, kind of, me, are the showstoppers in a routine.

    25. SBSteven Bartlett1:06:51

        Well, what if I don't? 'Cause I'm guilty as charged on all above counts.

    26. TWTrinny Woodall1:06:54

        Okay. If you don't, genes might make you think, "I don't need to. I'm fine." But I look at your skin, and I'm going to come over now. You-

    27. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:01

        Oh, no. Don't call me. Oh, fuck.

    28. TWTrinny Woodall1:07:03

        Because what I'm going to do is I... Do this. Look at me. And I close my eyes 'cause I need to feel your skin-

    29. SBSteven Bartlett1:07:08

        Mm-hmm.

    30. TWTrinny Woodall1:07:08

        ... without judging you by s- looking at you.
18. 1:10:18 – 1:11:25

    The Starter Skincare Routine

    1. TWTrinny Woodall1:10:18

       put a sort of foot on the hosepipe, it stops. You need this to move round. If it's moving round, it's releasing the toxins and taking them down here at the moment. It's leaving them on your skin, under your skin.

    2. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:27

       So it's cleaning out my face?

    3. TWTrinny Woodall1:10:28

       Yes. You want it to be moving. So-

    4. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:30

       If there was just three things then. So tell me, tell me this. If-

    5. TWTrinny Woodall1:10:33

       So if you had three things you would use...

    6. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:35

       Yeah, three products I would use, and then sort of three principles towards skin, good skincare.

    7. TWTrinny Woodall1:10:39

       Okay. You'd use Better Off, which is a cleanser and one. You go in the shower-

    8. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:43

       Yeah.

    9. TWTrinny Woodall1:10:43

       ... and you put this on your face.

    10. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:44

        Yeah.

    11. TWTrinny Woodall1:10:44

        It's-

    12. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:44

        Done.

    13. TWTrinny Woodall1:10:45

        ... AHA and PHA. It's got gentle exfoliating acids.

    14. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:48

        Okay.

    15. TWTrinny Woodall1:10:49

        Okay? Then Find Your Balance, which is an exfoliant, which is not there-

    16. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:53

        Okay.

    17. TWTrinny Woodall1:10:54

        ... but we're gonna get it for you. I don't know what we'll get for you. And Energise Me, which you don't have. Those three things is what you're gonna use.

    18. SBSteven Bartlett1:10:59

        Okay.

    19. TWTrinny Woodall1:11:00

        Your girlfriend will using a longer routine. I don't know what she looks like or her skin tone, but she'll probably have the retinols, and she'll have the vitamin Cs and a few other things. But you just need three things.

    20. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:11

        So that's the products, and then the, in terms of the personal routines, you said drink water, sleep.

    21. TWTrinny Woodall1:11:16

        Sleep.

    22. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:17

        And then, like, massage my face?

    23. TWTrinny Woodall1:11:18

        Yeah.

    24. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:20

        Got it.

    25. TWTrinny Woodall1:11:20

        Okay?

    26. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:21

        I'm looking forward to... I'm looking forward to it. I, I, I've f- I've always kind of pr-

19. 1:11:25 – 1:14:35

    Last Guest’s Question

    1. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:25

       procrastinated on, like, skincare routines and stuff because-

    2. TWTrinny Woodall1:11:27

       I know, but if it's easy.

    3. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:27

       Yeah.

    4. TWTrinny Woodall1:11:27

       If it's real easy, you'll do it.

    5. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:28

       If it's by the sink, I'll pick it up, you know? So.

    6. TWTrinny Woodall1:11:30

       Yeah, okay. Well, you'll just, like... We'll cement it down with Blu Tack.

    7. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:33

       Cool.

    8. TWTrinny Woodall1:11:33

       Okay.

    9. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:34

       So we have a tradition where the last guest leaves a question for the next guest, and not knowing who they're gonna be leaving it for.

    10. TWTrinny Woodall1:11:38

        Yeah.

    11. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:39

        The question left for you is, what's the one thing that gives you the most healthy pleasure in life, and how can you commit to harness more of it?

    12. TWTrinny Woodall1:11:52

        Going down a ski slope at 83 kilometers an hour. But the thing is, I just feel a responsibility now that I can't do that anymore.

    13. SBSteven Bartlett1:11:59

        Why?

    14. TWTrinny Woodall1:12:00

        Because it's very dangerous.

    15. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:02

        That's true.

    16. TWTrinny Woodall1:12:02

        You know? It's like I... But it is... It's a guilty ple- 'cause I love it. I love the speed. I love the, like, I'm just in control, wind through my hair, you know? It's the only sport I know how to do. I'm shit at every other sport.

    17. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:17

        Sounds like the way you live life.

    18. TWTrinny Woodall1:12:18

        Yeah, probably.

    19. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:20

        In control, high speed.

    20. TWTrinny Woodall1:12:21

        Yeah.

    21. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:22

        Wind through your hair. (laughs)

    22. TWTrinny Woodall1:12:24

        (laughs) Probably. Good man. So I gotta leave one for somebody else now.

    23. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:26

        Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you for the inspiration. You truly are an inspiration, uh, tremendously, tremendously so, and I'm gonna make you feel uncomfortable. You should be so proud of how far you've come. (laughs)

    24. TWTrinny Woodall1:12:37

        (laughs)

    25. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:39

        You must be so proud. Take some time to just ru- breathe it in and enjoy it, Trinny, 'cause it's... You're gonna regret it.

    26. TWTrinny Woodall1:12:44

        Shut up now.

    27. SBSteven Bartlett1:12:45

        I appreciate you so much. Thank you for being here. Thank you for coming and doing this, and thank you for creating a real business that's, um, inspiring so many people just through its existence, but also inspiring them to be better and to feel better about themselves through the wonderful products that you've made. And I highly recommend that everyone goes and gets this book. It's more of Trinny, the Trinny that I'm sure you've loved in this conversation. And these products, I mean, they speak from themselves because, as I said, you know exactly where they've come from. So thank you. As you may know, this podcast is sponsored by Huel. If you're living under a rock, you might have missed that. And Huel has such a wide range of products now, but there is a great way to try all of them. This is the Huel bestseller bundle, perfectly curated so that you can try all of their favorite products and decide which ones are your favorites. The bestseller bundle has a range of meals and bars, including the iconic Huel shaker, the pot, and a free T-shirt, which if you've got the free Huel T-shirt, you'll understand how well that T-shirt fits. I'm not just saying that. It really, really is phenomenal. If you've heard me talking about Huel but haven't tried it for some reason, then this is a great option for you to get to know the range and find the product that works best for you. I've tried every single Huel product in the boardroom, in the development laboratories, and in my home. And there's a couple of products which have just revolutionized my life because they meet the requirements that I'm looking for. So if you're looking to try Huel for the first time and to get into it and to join the Hueligan family, I highly recommend you try this out.

Episode duration: 1:14:29