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Why sunlight beats vitamin D pills for your mitochondria

How brief daily sun, sauna sessions, and outdoor time fuel mitochondria; he argues vitamin D pills miss the infrared signal sunlight delivers.

Dr. Roger SeheultguestSteven Bartletthost
Jul 17, 20252h 5mWatch on YouTube ↗

EVERY SPOKEN WORD

  1. 0:00 – 2:12

    Intro

    1. RS

      (tense music) He was literally two days away from dying. So this is a story where a 15-year-old boy was diagnosed with blood cancer, but he developed a flesh-eating infection in his lung. He wasn't gonna make it, so he has one request. He wants to go outside, and that's exactly what they do, and this was actually mind-blowing to me. After the second day, the infection is probably 60, 70% gone, and it became clear to me that sunlight has so many important benefits. For instance, if you're the bed closer to the window, you get discharged from the hospital faster.

    2. SB

      So I want you to give me any information you have as it relates to light health. For example, do you recommend these kinds of things?

    3. RS

      (laughs)

    4. NA

      Dr. Roger Seheult is a board certified critical care physician who breaks down complex science into clear, life-saving advice.

    5. RS

      I see people at the very end of their lives, so I know what prevents them from getting this ill and how to extend life. So let's distill it down (upbeat music) into eight pillars. The first thing, exercise. It reduces stroke. It reduces depression. Next, sunlight. Did you know that infrared light from the sun is able to penetrate up to about eight millimeters and stimulate and up-regulate melatonin, which prevents a lot of diseases like dementia, cardiovascular disease, diabetes.

    6. SB

      What if you live in a cloudy country?

    7. RS

      There's some very actionable things that you can do, and we'll talk about that. Next one, water. For instance, people who use sauna are more likely to have less death from cardiovascular disease. Next, air. There are studies that show that just going out one day a week can elevate our immune system and make us more relaxed, and then there's (beep) (beep) But finally, trust. This is something that can't be ignored, because studies have shown that people who have a good faith and trust in a god are-

    8. SB

      I see messages all the time in the comments section that some of you didn't realize you didn't subscribe, so if you could do me a favor and double-check if you're a subscriber to this channel, that would be tremendously appreciated. It's the simple, it's the free thing that anybody that watches this show frequently can do to help us here to keep everything going in this show and the trajectory it's on, so please do double-check if you've subscribed, and, uh, thank you so much, because in a strange way, you are, you're part of our history, and you're on this journey with us, and I appreciate you for that, so yeah. Thank you.

  2. 2:12 – 3:13

    What Is Roger Aiming to Accomplish?

    1. SB

      (upbeat music) Dr. Roger Seheult, with the work that you do, what is it that you're aiming to accomplish?

    2. RS

      Outside of my clinical duties, uh, and maybe even part of that, I would like to clearly explain very easily graspable tools that can be implemented to make people live their best life, and it's specifically in terms of their health and their wellbeing.

    3. SB

      And as we dig down into health and wellbeing, 'cause that's quite a broad-

    4. RS

      Yeah.

    5. SB

      ... basket, what is it within health and wellbeing that you've spent your career, your life focusing on?

    6. RS

      So I'm a, a board certified, uh, internal medicine specialist. Then I did an extra three years of training, uh, here in the United States on pulmonary and critical care, so I deal with all of the issues that are related to the lungs and the critical care aspect, so if you are, uh, i- if you were admitted to hospital and you're critically ill, you go to the intensive care unit, I'm the doctor that you see. So I'm putting in, you know, the lines, putting on vasopressors, intubating them. Uh, I worked in the clinic this morning.

  3. 3:13 – 8:58

    The 8 Pillars of Health

    1. RS

    2. SB

      And what are s- some of the unappreciated things that most people don't think of? 'Cause we think of, you know, don't eat processed food and-

    3. RS

      Right.

    4. SB

      ... exercise, but is there things outside of that that you don't think the average person appreciates enough?

    5. RS

      Yes, absolutely.

    6. SB

      What are those things?

    7. RS

      So if we look at those things that extend life and are beneficial, we could put them into what I call eight pillars of health. If you can imagine your life is a, a chain with a bunch of links, okay, and I'm talking medically, each one of those links is an organ system, so your heart is a link. Your lungs are a link. Your liver is a link. Your kidneys, et cetera, et cetera. As you go through life, imagine those links starting to erode so that at some point in your life, you're gonna get some sort of a disease or a diagnosis that focuses on one organ system of your life. For many here in the United States and in the UK, it's the heart. And as that link gets more eroded, we can see very clearly that this is gonna be the link that's gonna break first, and therefore attention is paid to that link. For many, that diagnosis comes with medications, so here, here is one of the first truisms that I would say, uh, going forward. All medications have side effects, and what the aim is to do in modern medicine is to utilize the knowledge of those medicines and their effect on the human body so that we leverage the other links to protect that weakest link. So I could go through a bunch of medications that I give all the time to patients in the intensive care unit where I'm focused on saving their life because I can clearly see which link is the weakest, but I'm doing it knowing that there's side effects because I'm trying to save that link to save that life, and I'm leveraging those other things. For instance, somebody comes in with a stroke, and, uh, they have, they've o- they've lost weakness on the, on the right side of their body or on the left side, whichever side. I can give them a medication immediately that will break up all of the clots in their body. It's called t-PA or TNK, and it will restore blood flow to the brain, and it will reverse many of their symptoms. If they come in soon enough, we can do this. What's a- what's amazing is that that medication has an effect that can do that. But it also has a pretty significant side effect in that it could break up clots somewhere else and cause bleeding. So we have to be careful about what it is that we're doing. Clearly there, what we're doing is we're saving one link at the expense of other links, but that's what you have to do in an emergency situation. But if after that I simply send that patient home without telling them why they had that stroke and what they need to do to prevent themselves from getting that stroke again and what are the lifestyle factors that cause that to happen-... I haven't done my job. So what is, what are the interventions that we can do, hopefully early on in life, so that we don't have those links eroding, so that all of the links are strong, and as we get older, we can continue to strengthen all of the links? Here are the eight. (instrumental music plays) So nutrition. That's, that's nutrition. Uh, basically, you know, we know there are studies that have done that show that, that depending on what we put into our bodies as food can have a dramatic impact in terms of our wellbeing. Okay? So that's nutrition. Exercise. As I was saying, exercise not only... I mean, drugs and things have side effects. Exercise has side benefits. So exercise obviously is gonna make you more fit. It's gonna make you have better endurance. But did you know that it reduces stroke? Did you know that it improves, uh, um, uh, wellbeing, it reduces depression? There's so many benefits. So all of these links are actually improving. There's no leveraging here. Uh, exercise is incredible. Water. So this may sound obvious, right? Like you drink because you're thirsty. Where I would like to go today is to talk a little bit about what the effect of water externally on your body can do.

    8. SB

      And you're talking there about, like, hot and cold-

    9. RS

      Exactly.

    10. SB

      ... usage-

    11. RS

      Exactly.

    12. SB

      ... in terms of showers or cold plunges, saunas, that kind of thing?

    13. RS

      Exactly.

    14. SB

      Okay.

    15. RS

      And we'll get into the actual evidence for this.

    16. SB

      We'll get into it later, but what is the potential treatment-

    17. RS

      This affects your immune system.

    18. SB

      Which changes your probability of diseases and stuff like that?

    19. RS

      Correct. Absolutely. Especially in the acute setting.

    20. SB

      Okay.

    21. RS

      Especially. So not only in the acute setting, but we also have pretty good data from Finland, where they have more saunas than (laughs) almost than people, uh, where they've actually done the research and, and shown with dose response curves that this is actually very beneficial. We won't get into too much of that. But what I wanna focus a little bit more on, because of my job in the intensive care unit and what we're seeing right now with viruses and mutations in the innate immune system, why something like this may actually be very important, uh, as we look forward. Uh, interestingly, as we look forward to future things, pandemics, we can look backward and see what we had done in the past. And we've got some really actually really good information on that. Let's go to sunlight. This is something that, um, I've really become more and more involved with because of some of the benefits th- that this can do. A very big misconception that people have is that sunlight equals vitamin D, and therefore, if you take a vitamin D supplement, you don't need to go in the sun. This is really something that's, uh, now, um, being debunked. Sunlight has far more benefits than just vitamin D. Not saying that vitamin D is, is not something that you want to supplement with. I supplement with vitamin D. I think it's a, a... there's a benefit to supplementing with vitamin D, no question. But sunlight has so many important things, and I, and I really would like to spend the bulk or the lion's share of the time talking about this because this is really important.

  4. 8:58 – 20:25

    Story of Henry: A Fungal Lung Disease Patient

    1. RS

    2. SB

      Okay.

    3. RS

      Um, this is a, this is, this is amazing, uh, and it really made me think about sunlight. So this is a story by a lady by the name of Amy Honmeier. Her 15-year-old boy was diagnosed with lymphoblastic leukemia. Went into, uh, the hospital, actually started chemotherapy for it, and-

    4. SB

      Which is blood cancer.

    5. RS

      It's a blood cancer, yeah. And so this, the treatment for blood cancer is chemotherapy, which he started. The side effect of chemotherapy is suppressing the immune system, and unfortunately, he didn't realize it, but he developed, uh... he didn't realize it immediately, but he developed a, a fungus flesh-y eating infection in his lung and went into the hospital in June of 2024. Uh, this is in Minnesota, tertiary care hospital, and he got worse and got worse and got worse to the point where the only way that they could control this infection was to actually remove his left lung, which they did. So this is a 15-year-old boy. He is without his left lung. He only has a right lung, and he starts to decline even after that. They do a CT scan, and it shows that now the infection has moved to the, his remaining right lung. They have a family conference, and as Amy is telling me this story, I could hear her choking up. She's telling me this on the phone. She's saying that he's 15, he's completely awake, he's completely alert, he knows everything that's going on around him. He's on a ventilator, like a, uh, a machine that they use for, for sleep apnea. It's like a BiPAP machine that's breathing for him. It's not intubation, but it's on his m- on his mouth. And the doctors, uh, you know, have done everything they possibly can, and they say, "Look, he's getting worse. We can't take... obviously, we can't take the right lung out. We can't put him on a heart-lung machine because there's no sort of destination to where he's going. Uh, we recommend not intubating him and, and making what they call DNR, do not resuscitate." So they're like, "Wow." They were not expecting this coming. So they have a f- big conference. Somebody... they, they call in help to like... how do you explain to a 15-year-old boy that you're dying, and how, how is that gonna feel? So they ask the doctors, "How, how much time does he have?" They say, "Two days." So in this, in this situation, they ask this boy, "Okay, you're gonna die. What do you want to do with your life in the, in the next two days? What do you wanna do?" And surprisingly, he says, "I wanna go outside. I just wanna go outside." This, this guy grew up, uh, probably on a farm or something, and he spent his time outside, so he wants to go outside. So you know how... I mean, I don't know if you know this, but like, if you're a nurse or you're a doctor and y- you've done everything you can and this... and you're just completely horrified at the fact that this 15-year-old is gonna die and he has one request, you're going to move heaven and earth to fulfill that one request. And that's exactly what they do. They get this boy the hospital bed outside. He's on a BiPAP machine the respiratory therapists have put together. So this guy is outside.... and they're not putting him outside to get better. He's just, this is his dying wish. They also use this thing called a firefly. It's like a, a light device that they were using. I to, I'll be honest, I don't know which did it.

    6. SB

      The firefly, what's that?

    7. RS

      It's a, it's a light device that gives off light at different wavelengths, and they would use that for about three times a day for, for five minutes. This guy does not die. After the first day, his white count starts to come down. That's like a measure of the infection that's going on in the lung. A- and, and by the way, they do a CT scan of his lung before this all starts, and they, and it's just, the, the, the remaining lung on the right is just filled with infection. It's horrible. By the, by the second day, the white count comes down even more, and, and they're ... By the way, they haven't changed any of the other treatment. He's been in ... By this point, he's been in for six weeks. He has not seen the light of day, and, and he's still getting the powerful antifungal medication, Amphotericin B and Posaconazole. All of these things are, are really high-powered drugs that, that just completely fight fungus, but it's not working. He's getting worse. But now, he's out for the second day, the white count's coming down, which is good n- it's a good sign. His oxygen requirement is coming down. That's a good sign. He's requiring less and less oxygen. By the time he gets to day five, okay, we're already past two days, he's off the BiPAP. He's on regular just nasal-cannula oxygen that you see people wearing on their nose. The doctors are scratching their head. They're like, "We, we should get a CT scan to see what's going on." So, so Amy tells me that they, they get a CT scan on this guy, and they're in the room, and some, some even like swear under their breath, like they're c- they're completely amazed. Because on the CT scan, obviously the left lung is still gone, but the right lung, the disease is probably 60, 70% gone, and he, he's still alive. He goes home. There's no sign of the disease after, after treatment, and he, he, uh, I, I just, uh, she just, uh communicated with me to tell me that he just got his Make-A-Wish, uh, thing for, for his cancer. He's continuing treatment and t- and she just can't believe that he was literally two da- two days away from dying. They changed nothing. They changed none of his treatments. The only thing that they did was they took him outside and they, they were using this firefly before inside, but they were using it more consistently when he got outside.

    8. SB

      Maybe hospitals should be outside.

    9. RS

      This is exactly what ... Okay, so if you wanted to know what my drive was, what, what it is my purpose that I'm doing right now, I'm working at three different hospitals and I'm trying to work in each of those three different hospitals to try to get patients outside. The biggest barrier that we have is staff taking those patients outside. That's the thing that's the hardest. But this is what we used to do, Stephen. This is what we used t- ... When we built hospitals at the turn of the century, we had hospital rooms where beds could be taken out onto the veranda and people could get sunlight. I would love to see a time where we could go back to that type of, uh, effect. There are studies that have been done. People in a two-bedroom, if you're the bed closer to the window, you get discharged from the hospital faster on average.

    10. SB

      Really?

    11. RS

      Yes.

    12. SB

      Mm. (inhales deeply) I need to swap sides of the bed with my girlfriend.

    13. RS

      (laughs)

    14. SB

      Sh- she's on the sunny side.

    15. RS

      There, there is, there's so much evidence for this. People who are in hospitals that are, have bigger windows, they give better surveys. And hospitals', uh, reimbursement is tied to the surveys that they get from patients. So it's literally a win-win-win. If hospitals started to, I believe, get patients outside, and, and they're already doing this. They're ... I, I don't wanna say that this isn't happening. There are hospitals that are, have programs to get patients outside. Um, I think we just oughta be doing it a lot more. Um, temperance.

    16. SB

      Temperance? What does that mean?

    17. RS

      It's an old term, isn't it? It really means moderation, and, and I, I would say in this sense, temperance really means to, uh, avoid toxins in the body. Um, as somebody who is a pulmonologist, who is-

    18. SB

      What's a pulmonologist?

    19. RS

      A pulmonologist is someone who takes care of the lungs, and so as a result of that, I see a lot of issues, uh, with lung cancer related to smoking. Um, I see in the intensive care unit, people with liver failure as a result of, of alcohol abuse. I also see people, uh, on amphetamines here in Southern California where I, uh, reside and where I work. We, we have quite a bit of that. And, uh, temperance, if, if you want to live a long and wholesome life, there are some toxins that you want to avoid, and, uh, and, and, and understanding that is really important. So this is something that if you stop some of those things that we're talking about, all of those links are gonna be improved. Air. (laughs) Seems kind of obvious. Early on, I used to think that, that what this meant was getting pure air with absolutely nothing in it except for just nitrogen and oxygen. That's not true anymore. We now understand that for you to have the best type of air, it actually has to come with some things in it. Just like our, our gut has a microflora that you may have heard about, so too does the air that we breathe also must have that, and, um, the best type of air that you can have is actually outside. Rest. This is really interesting because we just mentioned that exercise was a pillar, but rest also is. How can rest and exercise at the same time be pillars of health? And it really ...... comes down to knowing when to do what. Sleep, which is also part of rest. So, we're not just talking about a daily rest, when you go to sleep, and, and as a sleep physician, I can tell you, uh, quite a bit. We have lots of information about how long we should sleep, the quality of sleep, some of the diseases that prevent us from sleeping. Sleep is so important. I can't, uh, I, I couldn't over-express it enough. Not just a, a daily rest, but, um, I would also say, and ve- and venture out, we can talk more about this, uh, a weekly rest.

    20. SB

      A weekly rest?

    21. RS

      A weekly rest.

    22. SB

      Mm, what do you mean? A weekend? Like ...

    23. RS

      Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. How many times do we, uh, even on the weekend, do we put down our, our phone?

    24. SB

      Never.

    25. RS

      Or we stop reading emails, and we take the time out to do things that we would never be able to do? Finally, trust. So, this is something that really just can't be ignored, and, a- and I'll say this upfront, that, um, in the world of research and science, there is a, there is a silo of science, and there is a silo of faith. But what's, what we can't ignore is the growing body of evidence from the scientific world that's peeking over and looking at faith, that people who have faith and people who have faith in God, uh, whether that is, uh, their God in, in that particular denomination, are better apt and able to deal with stress and depression and anxiety. So, this is something scientifically that has been shown. Now, if you, you may have noticed that I, I did these in a particular order, um, and if you go through them, you've got nutrition, you've got exercise, you've got water, you've got sunlight, you've got temperance, you have air, you have rest, and finally, you have trust. You put that together, and it spells out NEW START. So, interestingly, these, these particular topics are not copyrighted, but there is a, um, there is a university in Northern California called Wilmore University that has actually put these together in that very pattern, and that's called it NEW START. They actually have a NEW START program. Um, and so this is something that, uh, that is actually being used, uh, internationally.

  5. 20:25 – 27:31

    Why Our Mitochondria Need Sunlight

    1. RS

    2. SB

      So, of these subjects that you just went through there for this NEW START, um-

    3. RS

      Yeah.

    4. SB

      ... framework, where do you wanna start?

    5. RS

      I think, actually, sunlight is, is one of those things where ... I'm excited about all of those, but I think sunlight is, is really where we have, it's the l- let's put it this way. It's the lowest hanging fruit.

    6. SB

      Okay. Explain to me why sunlight is the, the place where your focus is at the moment.

    7. RS

      It's a long trip that has gotten me to that.

    8. SB

      Okay.

    9. RS

      Um, and I, and I think part of it has to, uh, goes through, right through COVID. So, as a critical care intensivist, when I heard that there was this virus that was coming, they all told us that it was gonna be people with respiratory illnesses, which I was f- certainly comfortable with. But that's not what it turned out to be. We certainly saw people with respiratory illnesses, but what we saw in the intensive care unit, the people that were dying around me, were people with obesity, people with heart disease, people with kidney disease, people with dementia, people with chronic diseases, and it made me think, "Why was that the case?" All of those things have one thing in common, and many other things, too. But specifically, they're rooted in something called mitochondrial dysfunction. So, uh, lemme unpack that for you. And, and this has to do with longevity. This has to do with aging. This is a huge topic that is now just emerging, and we're, we're now finding more about this. So, what, when we were, when I was in high school biology, when I was in college, uh, we all learned about this little organelle in all of our cells, except for red blood cells, called the mitochondria. And, and, uh, I have to say it. What is the mitochondria? It's the powerhouse of the cell, right? So, it's the thing that makes energy. What we didn't know at the time is that, as we get older, the output from these batteries in our cells drops by about 70%.

    10. SB

      Damn.

    11. RS

      Can you imagine running your house on 70% less energy? Well, how fundamentally that would change, would change what happens in your house. Like, you could not run the laundry the same way. You could not run the microwave and the laundry at the same time.

    12. SB

      And what does that look like, in terms of s- symptoms?

    13. RS

      Excellent question. Because what it looks like is, depending on the cell type that we're talking about, that's gonna have the issue. So, if we're talking about the liver-

    14. SB

      Ah.

    15. RS

      ... the liver's gonna get more fatty. If we're talking about the heart, the heart's gonna, is g- could become more congested. If we're talking about the brain, it's gonna have more dementia. And so, what's, what's happening here, is that as we get older, the batteries in our cells are not working the same way as they used to. Metabolism is slowing down. And, and so these are hu- these are huge issues. And all of these diseases that I just talked about, all the ones that we saw in COVID, if you look, in a lot of these diseases, they are rooted in mitochondrial dysfunction. So, the question is, is why is that the case, and what can we do about it? So, there was a paper that came out in 2019 that fundamentally changed the way I saw this. It was written by, um, Russell Reiter, who is the, uh, executive editor of Melatonin Research. It's a, he's out of, uh, University of Texas. And Scott Zimmerman, who's a light engineer. And what they set forth was to show that, basically, sunlight is made up of so many different types of wavelengths. You've got ultraviolet on one end, which of course, makes vitamin D, and it's very beneficial. It, it, it's the type of light from the, from the sun that is very short wave, and, but cannot penetrate very deeply. Uh, lemme, lemme back up a little bit and explain. You pull up to a stop sign, and somebody pulls up next to you, and they're playing the latest hip hop music. How does that sound to you in your car? It's very boom, boom, right?

    16. SB

      Yeah. Muffled.

    17. RS

      Okay. And muffled, and the reason why is because low wave frequency-... has the ability to travel very far. Go to the Grand Canyon, and there's a thunderstorm at the other end of it, what do you hear?

    18. NA

      Rumbling.

    19. RS

      It's like a rumbling. And then, as it gets closer, you hear the higher pitched sounds. This is a fundamental physics, uh, principle. And so, when the sun is, is shining, there's very short wavelengths, ultraviolet B, involved in vitamin D. But at the other end, there's this infrared light, which we'll talk about, or red light. It's very long wavelengths, and it can penetrate very, very deeply. That's very important, because what we're talking about is the human body, and f- if the sun is gonna have an effect on the human body, it's gotta be more than just the skin. So, that's exactly what, what this paper showed, is that basically, infrared light from the sun is able to penetrate probably up to about eight centimeters, according to Scott Zimmerman in this article, and it fundamentally interacts with specifically the mitochondria. And what does it do to the mitochondria? So, let's, let's back up and talk about the mitochondria, 'cause this is central. The mitochondria to the cell is like the engine in your car. The engine produces locomotion that causes the s- the wheels to spin. But in the process of doing it, it causes heat to, uh, surround the engine. And if you don't deal with that heat, it will shut down the engine. It will make it more inefficient, and eventually it will shut it down. So, what do all internal combustion engines have? They have a cooling system, they have a radiator, they have a, a, an oil pan, they have a water pump. And that's exactly what the cell has to have for the mitochondria. It, it's not heat in the mitochondria. It's called oxidative stress, and it's specifically oxidative stress that causes destruction and, uh, and, and, um, yeah, destruction of the mitochondria and leads to these types of diseases. So, oxidative stress causes the mitochondria not to work well. This leads to diabetes. Oxidative stress makes the mitochondria not work so well, this leads to dementia. So, there's a... this has already been laid out. This is not that controversial. The controversial part is, what do we do about it? So, what these guys in this paper showed was that, a- a- and, and not just them, but look, reviewing the literature, is that the mitochondria makes its own cooling system, and that cooling system is melatonin. Now, you might the- be thinking, "Wait a minute. Melatonin? Isn't that the f- isn't that the stuff that we take that our brain makes right before we go to sleep?" Yeah, that you're, it's absolutely correct. That's what happens. The problem is, is that this is not melatonin that's made in the brain. This is not melatonin that goes through the blood supply and goes th- goes through our blood and, and tells us it's time to go to sleep. This is melatonin that's made in the cell, in the mitochondria, and it's a powerful antioxidant that basically prevents the oxidative stress from occurring. What Scott Zimmerman and Russell Reiter showed and, and proposed in this was that basically, the infrared radiation that's coming into the body is able to stimulate and up-regulate melatonin and a number of other factors that keep the mitochondria cool, and can actually improve the energy output of the mitochondria. So, this is, this was actually mind-blowing to me, and I'll tell you why I resonated with this as a critical care physician,

  6. 27:31 – 29:45

    Sunlight and Viruses: Impact on COVID-19

    1. RS

      because there was two things that bothered me the most. Number one, SARS-CoV-2 virus. When it comes into the body, it interacts with something called the ACE2 receptor. You may have heard about the ACE2 receptor. Okay. This is where the, the virus actually latches on to the cell and gets internalized. So, what is this ACE2 receptor? Is this th- was this there for all of humanity just to be a receptor, or does it actually have a role? It turns out, it actually has a role, and mind-blowingly, the ACE2 receptor is involved in mitigating oxidative stress. So, in other words, it's another part of the cell's cooling system for the mitochondria. What, what's happening is that the, the virus, when it attaches to the cell, is basically eliminating that action. And so, imagine you have a bunch of people with various different engines running at different temperatures, in other words. You've got some people with chronic disease, and we know their engines are running hot. We have s- other people who are completely healthy, and they're doing quite well. Their engines are nice and cool. They have no problems at all. Now, imagine COVID comes, and SARS-CoV-2 is infecting everybody. What that ha- tendency is to do is, because it's knocking out everybody's ACE2 receptor, which has the ability to cool down the engine, in, in other words, it's causing everybody's engine to run hot, right? So, but in somebody... So, in other words, picture it as this way. You're, you're, you're driving along in your car and your thermometer is there, and all of a sudden there's this big hill that you have to climb called COVID-19. Who's gonna make it over that hill, and who's not gonna make it over that hill? The people that make it over the hill are those with great cooling engines, the, th- whose temperatures are running great. The ones that don't make it over that hill are the ones that have the thermometer on their engine running hot.

    2. NA

      Mm-hmm.

    3. RS

      Those are the ones that poop out at the top and can't make it, and they're, they're the ones pulled over to the side of the road with the hood up and the steam coming out of the, out of the engine. Do you understand what I'm saying?

    4. NA

      Of course, yeah.

    5. RS

      So, this makes perfect sense to me why I wasn't seeing what they were predicting, which is these respiratory patients coming into the ICU. Who was I seeing in the ICU? I was seeing people with dementia, as we talked about, diabetes, kidney disease. These are the ones that were the, that were sick.

  7. 29:45 – 33:40

    Vitamin D and Lower Risk in COVID Patients

    1. RS

      The other thing that e- that really hit me and resonated with this was, and this was, this was not even controversial. We knew early on in the pandemic that people who came into the hospital and had higher levels of vitamin D did really well. They didn't die. They, they didn't have the same chances of dying. People who had low vitamin D levels, they had much higher levels, uh, chances of dying. So, we would check these vitamin D levels. And so-Think about this. You're, you're there at ground zero, and you're taking care of these patients, and you see this data over and over and over again that vitamin D is very predictive of who's gonna die. Obviously, what are you gonna do? Even though this is an associative study, that association doesn't mean causation, you're gonna be giving people vitamin D and try to get those levels up. The problem is, is that we gave vitamin D, and it really didn't have much of a, an effect. So ...

    2. SB

      You gave it in supplement form?

    3. RS

      Yeah. When people would come into the hospital-

    4. SB

      Like this.

    5. RS

      Exactly. Exactly. Just like that. In fact, I was supplementing myself. I mean, what have you got to lose, right? (laughs) I already took my vitamin D, uh, tablet this morning. I don't, there's not... That's very hard to overdose, but it's possible. Yeah.

    6. SB

      So, y- you noticed that it was hard to treat people with vitamin D, by giving them a, a tablet didn't really do much.

    7. RS

      That's correct.

    8. SB

      Why?

    9. RS

      Well, this is what I believe is the, is the fa- is the fact, is we saw that people with high levels of vitamin D or normal levels of vitamin D did better than those that had low levels. I believe that that was a marker of something else. In other words, people who had higher levels of vitamin D meant that they were out in the sun more, they were outside more than those, the people that had very low vitamin D levels. The people with low l- vitamin D levels were telling me these were people that were not getting outside into the sun. And so, what's the real factor here? What's doing the heavy lifting? And I would propose, and Scott Zimmerman and Russell Ryder would propose, and I, I can tell you a number of other scientists that would agree with me on this, is that infrared radiation from the sun is causing an effect at the mitochondrial level in terms of oxidative stress, and that vitamin D was just the marker of who was getting the infrared light and who was not, who was going outside and who was not going outside. So, when the sun is shining, for the most part, you're getting infrared light, you're getting the entire f- the entire biological spectrum from the sun. We can go to the longest wavelength, which is far infrared, all the way to the shortest wavelength, which is ultraviolet B, okay, which makes vitamin D. So, in other words, when you are outside in a natural environment, you're getting a very broad spectrum of light. And so because of that, if you're getting infrared light, you're also gonna be making vitamin D.

    10. SB

      Yeah.

    11. RS

      You're getting both. Um, now, that can change, because in the wintertime, when the sun is lower in the sky, especially, you know, in England, this is, this is a special issue at that latitude. When the sun is low in the sky, it's got, the light has to penetrate through obliquely through the atmosphere. And because of that, shortwave radiation from the sun, like ultraviolet B, does not make it very well. So, there's times of the year where you're not getting enough ultraviolet B, or maybe even no ultraviolet B from the sun.

    12. SB

      Which makes the vitamin D.

    13. RS

      Which makes the vitamin D, and that you're, you're gonna be deficient and you need to supplement. However, during that same period of time, when you're not getting enough vitamin D because there's no ultraviolet B radiation, that sun is low, but that's, it's still enough to allow that long wavelength penetrating infrared light to still come through.

    14. SB

      So,

  8. 33:40 – 47:35

    Benefits of Using Infrared Light Devices

    1. SB

      is the long wave infrared light the type of thing that we see these gadgets doing?

    2. RS

      Absolutely. And, and, uh, I would say just to be specific is because you can see that as red light there, that's not infrared light, because you can see it. So, infrared light technically is completely invisible.

    3. SB

      But this, these do give out infrared light, but you just can't see it.

    4. RS

      Yes. Exactly. So, it's toward that red end of the spectrum, and people like Glen Jeffery out of UCL uh, is actually doing research at 670 nanometers of red light and has shown in randomized controlled trials that that type of light right there at 670, the type that you can even see, actually does improve mitochondrial efficiency. He's shown this in a number of randomized controlled trials. It improves eyesight, and re- and you have to realize that the retina at the back of your eye is very rich in mitochondria. He's shown this in terms of managing glucose and, and output for mitochondria, and, and the reason why these things, uh, work so well is because what's going on here is as you get older, your skin starts to become more saggy because the, the fibroblasts, or the cells in your skin, they're designed to make collagen. And collagen is the skeleton that makes your skin soft and supple. Yeah.

    5. SB

      Don't mind me. Please carry on.

    6. RS

      No, no. So, this is, uh, this is exactly... My wife, uh, uses the same thing. (laughs)

    7. SB

      This is a fun

    8. NA

      One second.

    9. RS

      So, what- what's going on right now is that red light, which can penetrate very deeply down is going into the skin, and it is activating the mitochondria in your fibroblasts to produce more energy, which those cells need to deposit collagen. And so when you deposit collagen, that's gonna give the skin a more tight, uh, feel, because as you get older, that collagen deposition is gonna get less and less and less.

    10. SB

      So, this is gonna help keep me looking young?

    11. RS

      That's the whole point of it.

    12. SB

      And you're saying that the, the light in these penetrates, what, six or seven centimeters, or is it-

    13. RS

      The infrared does about eight centimeters. Uh, this red light would be a little bit less because this li- light, obviously you can see it, so it is a little bit shorter wavelength. But yes, this light, the red light can penetrate deeper than, for instance, yellow light or blue light. And it's this light particularly that interacts with the mitochondria to increase that.

    14. SB

      So, should we be putting this all over our body because okay, it's good for my skin, but if it's penetrating deeper, presumably there's other parts of my body that would benefit from that, other mitochondria?

    15. RS

      It's interesting you say that. Um, the, the s- the study that I'm referring to with Glen Jeffery out of University College London, he took, uh, young people, uh, in, in this study. He gave them a bu- a bunch of glucose, and everybody who gets a bunch of glucose should have a spike in their blood sugar. And he randomized them on their backs.... to see what would happen when he shined red lights, uh, on their backs. And the people that got the red light had lower spikes. In other words, it seemed as though the mitochondria were metabolizing faster, which caused less of a spike of the glucose in their blood. The way he confirmed that is looking for the byproducts of the mitochondrial metabolism, which is carbon dioxide. So when we breathe, when we metabolize, we're breathing out carbon dioxide, which is the result of, of mitochondrial, um, metabolism. And in fact, in those people that had the light on, it showed a higher level of carbon dioxide in the exhaled, uh, breath. The whole point of that is, to get back to your question, is whether we should be putting this all over your body, he was able to get that effect systemically with just putting the light on the back. Um, that was a, that was a systemic, uh, ability. What w- we don't understand everything about the mitochondria, but what we do seem to understand is that they can communicate with each other, and that you don't need to have this all over the body to have systemic effects. In this particular case, though, if you want to have the skin here to be more s- uh, you know, younger-looking, then it makes sense that this is where you'd need to have it. If you want to have a particular other part of your body to look younger, then, then perhaps that, that's where the light needs to go.

    16. SB

      So interesting.

    17. RS

      Yeah.

    18. SB

      So, how long did it take in those studies to see the effect of red light therapy like this?

    19. RS

      Well, that's a very good question. If you talk to Glenn Jeffrey, which I have, he noticed a, an improvement in 15 minutes.

    20. SB

      Fifteen, he-

    21. RS

      Fifteen minutes.

    22. SB

      What did he notice in 15 minutes?

    23. RS

      I- he said he has studied the mitochondria in fruit flies, and in mosquitoes and bees, and in human beings, and it's the same every time. He says after about 15 to 20 minutes of this type of light in that type of setting, there is a switch that turns on, and it, and you, and you don't need further stimulation. Further stimulation doesn't do anything more. It's a, it's a very bizarre thing. You would think that the more light that you gave, the more the effect would be. It's not. After about 15 minutes, it, it, there's something that changes in the mitochondria. The- there are certain theories about where this might be. This might be in the electron transport chain, uh, uh, complex IV. Uh, these are very technical things. There's a lot of studies that are actually ... There's a number of groups that are actually looking at this. Uh, there's a whole s- area of science called photobiomodulation, which is looking at this. But 15 minutes is really what it takes, so we're n- we're not talking about a long period of time.

    24. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    25. RS

      This is really imp- uh, really interesting. So, getting back to my experience in the intensive care unit, the vitamin D wasn't working. These patients were dying, and it became clear to me that COVID was a metabolic, uh, issue for these patients. By the time I had realized this, the cir- I mean, the pandemic arguably is still going on because people are still becoming infected. But the rush to come into the hospital and the, and the number of bodies that we were seeing circulating through the intensive care unit had dropped dramatically. And at that point, I was able to see that potentially infrared light may be ve- very beneficial in these patients with COVID-19. Now, there was a study in Brazil. They took COVID patients that were, that were sick enough to be admitted to the hospital, but not too sick to be intubated in an intensive care unit. And they did something tremendous. They actually manufactured a jacket that they could put on patients. And on the inside of this jacket were these LED bulbs that gave off infrared radiation at exactly 940 nanometers. They put the jackets on, and they randomly randomized assigned which jacket was turned on and which jacket was turned off. It was blinded because the light coming from this jacket could not be seen by the human eye. It wasn't even enough to produce enough heat. And so they, they did this on 30 subjects, and they randomized them. 15 did it, 15, 15, all 15 ha- or all 30 had the jackets on, 15 had it turned on, 15 did not have it turned on, and they watched them. What happens to these patients? Every single end point that they looked at was statistically significant. And ...

    26. SB

      What does that mean?

    27. RS

      It means that the differences between these two groups could not have been from chance. There was a real difference. The group that had the jacket turned on had improvement in their oxygen saturation, had, could take breaths in more deeply and stronger, had improvements in their blood, white blood cells. Um, and not only that, had improvements in their heart rate, their respiratory rate, all of these statistically significant. But the most important and mind-blowing statistic was the length of stay in the hospital. So, they had these jackets on for 15 minutes once a day for seven days. In the group that did not have the jacket turned on, their l- average length of stay was 12 days in the hospital. For those that had the jacket turned on, it was 8 days. That was four day difference. That's tremendous when you realize that it costs thousands of dollars to hospitalize patients. It's, it's a huge amount when you think about the fact that there are certain drugs that get FDA approved for influenza, for instance, by just cutting short the symptoms for 24 hours. This is not just 24 hours, 40 ... People were discharged from the hospital four days faster. When I saw that study, that was enough for me to convince me. I mean, obviously it was 30 subjects, right? We should do a bigger study. We should do 100, a couple hundred, right? That would be, that would be ideal to do. But the fact that with just 30 patients, they could show statistical significance, that was enough for me to say, "Every patient from now on that I see that comes in with COVID-19 that's hospitalized, that they're asking me to go intubate, to bring to my ICU, these patients are gonna get outside."I don't have that jacket that they made in Brazil. I, I, I don't even know how I would make that jacket. They made it for the study, and it's not commercially available. There's no 940 nanometer lights, which is what they did in the study. But I do know this, I do know that sunlight has 940 nanometers in it, and if I could just take these patients outside, maybe they could improve. So I had, I got my wish. I had a patient on the floor. He was on 35 liters a minute, 100% oxygen through his high flow.

    28. SB

      Through his nose?

    29. RS

      Through his nose.

    30. SB

      Wow.

  9. 47:35 – 51:05

    Could More Sunlight Help You Live Longer?

    1. RS

      Uh-

    2. SB

      There was a study in 2011 in Sweden.

    3. RS

      Yes.

    4. SB

      Is that linked to this?

    5. RS

      No. This is a completely different study, but that, that's also a very important study. So the Swedish study is, is, is groundbreaking. Um, this was a study where they asked 20,000, 20,000 to 30,000 Swedish women about their habits in sunlight, and they divided these women into three categories, those women that did not get a lot of sun, those that got a moderate amount of sun, and those that got a lot of sun. And they followed them for 20 years, and they, they kept a track of each one that died and what they died of. And when they were done with that, they were astonished, because what they found was that the women who had spent most, uh, spent the large amount of their time outside, or spent the most amount of time outside had the least amount of mortality from cancer, from cardiovascular disease, and non-cardiovascular disease. And those that spent the least amount of time outside had the highest levels of that. The magnitude difference between those two was so much...... that they were able to show that women who, in Sweden, who spent the most amount of time outside and smoked, had the same mortality as those women that did not spend as much time outside and did not smoke.

    6. SB

      They were equal?

    7. RS

      They were equal. In other words, being in that category of not spending much time outside in the sun was the same risk factor for death as smoking.

    8. SB

      How do they know it wasn't linked to exercise? How are they e- able to establish causation 'cause that's a -

    9. RS

      You're absolute. That's an excellent question. So the, the difference here as you go up is this is a, this is an association study. Okay? So the, the question is this, how can you get causation from association? You can't. But if you look at the Bradford Hill criteria, there is a way that you can potentially make a, a strong argument for causation if there's something called a dose response curve. In other words, if you can show you're not just comparing two things, but you're comparing three or more. If you can show that as you increase the variable, that there is a change in the, the outputs, that is strongly suggestive of potentially causation. By the way, this is exactly what we did to show that smoking causes lung cancer. Obviously, we can't do a randomized control trial. Here, you get to smoke, you don't get to smoke. We'll follow up in 20 years to see who has lung cancer. This is exactly what we did. We showed that, that there was such a strong association with cancer risk with smoking that we were able to say through association that smoking causes lung cancer. By the way, Richard Weller, who's a dermatologist in England, uh, did just last year, a very similar study as to the Swedish study, except it was 10 times bigger, and he did it with both men and women. He found the same results. It was a UK biobank study.

    10. SB

      What did he discover?

    11. RS

      He discovered that either from, from solariums or from, um, or being outside using solar radiation data, uh, he was able to show both on their, their questionnaire and also where they lived, that the more light that they had, the lower their risk os, of, of, um, mortality, uh, and, um, and, and cancer mortality. So the question was, does it increase melanoma?

  10. 51:05 – 54:22

    Does the Sun Really Cause Melanoma?

    1. RS

      And h- he-

    2. SB

      What's melanoma?

    3. RS

      Melanoma is, is a skin cancer. So that's the big risk. That's the big risk that everybody's concerned about. You go out into the sca- sun and you're gonna get skin cancer. And he was able to show in that study, this was like 3, 3, 400,000 people in this study. UK Biobank Study, Richard Weller. He was able to show that there was no increased, there's no statistical increased risk of melanoma incidents, but there was a reduction in non-skin cancer mortality. Okay? So, so here's the trade-off. If you want to go out into the sun in England, okay, the benefits are you're gonna have a reduction in non-skin cancer mortality.

    4. SB

      So everything other than skin cancer?

    5. RS

      Correct. On the other hand, there's no increase in melanoma incidents. So that caused him to write an a- an op-ed and publish it. And actually, you can look up this op-ed, it's a great op-ed. Uh, it published in a, um, in the Journal of Investigative Dermatology called Sunlight: Time for a Rethink, where he goes through the arguments and he's actually shown, and, and there's been a number of changes that people are making around the globe. So public health, uh, uh, organizations that are saying now, you know, "Before we have said that, you know, this, the sun is a deadly laser and you should avoid it at all costs." We may need to rethink that.

    6. SB

      So you're telling me that essentially 15 minutes in the sun every day turns on a switch in my body that improves my mitochondrial function, which is gonna impact a variety of different parts of my health. Is that essentially what you're saying?

    7. RS

      Essentially, yes. Uh, a- and, and, and we're, we're looking, and this isn't an environment where, where we are spending less and less and less time. The, to gi- to give you, to put it in perspective, if we were on a British ship 300 years ago, and I came to you and I said, "Do you see this little yellow fruit? Just by eating a little bit of this yellow fruit, all of this disease that you're seeing around you with your fellow shipmates is gonna go away." That, that would seem almost incredulous, right?

    8. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    9. RS

      But that's exactly the case. We, we are the, the scurvy of the 21st century is the lack of sunlight. Everything is inside. Uh, we, we avoid the outside. We avoid discomfort. We avoid high temperatures. We avoid low temperatures. We, uh, uh, we used to go out and play sports. We now are, are playing virtual sports on, on pads. We have windows that are specifically designed, especially here in Southern California, to eliminate infrared lights. Because why? Infrared lights comes in and it heats up. Uh, one of the interesting things, uh, we didn't mention this about infrared light, is the way that we interact with infrared light. You can, you can tell this on your own. You go outside and close your eyes. You can tell which side of your body the sun is on. And the reason is, is because that infrared light not only can penetrate through your body, it's also penetrating through clothes very easily. And you can feel that, that, that heat that you're feeling is the infrared light going through the s- going through the clothes, going through the skin, and interacting with your heat receptors that are well below the surface. Um, so y- all of this.

  11. 54:22 – 57:16

    Are Humans Meant to Live Outside?

    1. SB

      All right, guys. Gonna go get Steve. The guest is here. (knocking) Ready? Come in. Oh, my God, Steve. (laughs) What? What are you doing? This is a Bonne Charge face mask. It's good for blemishes, wrinkles. Uh, it clears up the skin. It's red light. Have you not used it before? No. Haven't tried this before? It's, um, it's really, really good. It...... shines red light on your face, which helps increase and boost collagen production. I actually found that out 'cause the missus, I seen her wearing it, she terrified me a couple of nights in a row. Um, I thought it was to scare people with, but actually it's really, really good for your skin. So they are a sponsor of the podcast, and, uh, I've been using it every day for about a year and a half now.

    2. NA

      Wow, you're glowing.

    3. RS

      Well, Steve, you're still-

    4. SB

      I'm glowing, aren't I?

    5. RS

      ... this is great.

    6. SB

      Yes. And, uh, Bon Charge ships worldwide with easy returns and a yearlong warranty on all of their products, so visit boncharge.com/diary for 25% off on any product sitewide. But you have to order through that link. That's boncharge.com/diary with code Diary. Whether you are a novice or you've been in the tax and bookkeeping industry for years, if you want to work with an experienced team of professionals who are invested in your learning and growth, there's a real career opportunity with our sponsor, Intuit, the maker of TurboTax and QuickBooks. Their self-paced training, Intuit Academy, presents you with a pathway to gain the necessary skills that you'll need to feel confident expanding your career within tax and bookkeeping. And their team is extremely supportive too, with a large network of experienced, credentialed professionals right by your side as you learn and gain experience. On top of all of this upskilling, they also offer flexible working schedules, whether that's full-time, part-time, virtual, on-site, or even letting you select your hours to grow at the pace that you wanna grow at. Intuit is currently growing their network of tax and bookkeeping professionals, so if you wanna build a career with them on your own terms, just head to intuit.com/expert. I'll put that on the screen. That's intuit.com/expert. How long does the average American spend indoors, or the average Brit spend indoors?

    7. RS

      Y- good question. They're almost identical. Uh, I think the Brits spend a little bit more time outside than Americans. Th- the- the last number for Americans was 93% and, uh, Brits was 92%.

    8. SB

      Were we born to be outside?

    9. RS

      I think so.

    10. SB

      You think our ancestors probably spent a huge amount of time outside?

    11. RS

      Yeah.

    12. SB

      But we spent-

    13. RS

      And, and, and if you think about when I say outside, that also brings into play a l- a, a number of other of the new START, uh, letters that we haven't talked about. Uh, exercise. You're much more likely to do good exercise outside. You're much more likely to get air that's, that's the right type of air outside. Th- the other aspect about infrared light, briefly, is that trees are highly reflective of infrared light. In other words, if you're in an environment where there are trees are present, you're gonna get much more of this beneficial infrared light than if you're in a concrete jungle. So, so, y- so plants like this. Uh, in fact, the way that we measure th- the, the

  12. 57:16 – 59:16

    Is It Worth Wearing an Infrared Light Mask?

    1. RS

      forestation of the Amazon is through satellite imaging that looks at infrared light, because it reflects infrared light back. So the best thing, best situation to be in is to be outside on a green, uh, uh, on a, on a day where, where there's lots of green trees. W- we've known for, we've known for decades that people who live in green spaces do much better in terms of diabetes, do much better in terms of hypertension, mortality, all of these things.

    2. SB

      Depression.

    3. RS

      Depression. All of these things, yeah. A- and, and when you think about this, um, you, you bring up a point in terms of, of, of correlation, how do we know it's not depression? We used to say, "Well, people who live in green spaces have more money. H- the people have, they have more access to things. Maybe that's what we're seeing." Uh, I just have to tell you this study. There was something called the Green Heart Study in South Louisville, Kentucky. They did an amazing thing. They took this four square mile area in South Louisville, Kentucky, urbanized, uh, area, and they measured everybody's, uh, hsCRP. What is hsCRP? Highly sensitive C-reactive protein. It's a marker of inflammation, and it's been correlated to bad things like stroke and heart attack. So if you have high levels of, of CRP, that's not good. So they measured every, they measured about 700 people, and then they did something extraordinary. They purchased 8,000 mature trees, dug holes, and planted 8,000 trees into four square mile area. And these are trees with leaves on 'em. Two years later, they come back and they measure all 700 people in their study, repeat the hsCRP, dropped by 13 to 20%, which correlated to about a 10 to 15% reduction in strokes. These people didn't change their socioeconomic status. They didn't institute an exercise program. And so really, it kinda shoots in the heart the idea that

  13. 59:16 – 1:07:59

    How to Get Infrared Light on a Cloudy Day

    1. RS

      the advantage that we see with green spaces has to do with something else that we're not measuring. I actually believe that we'll talk about fresh air too, that things like these plants, but much bigger, this is kinda like a bonsai plant, but, but trees outside, they actually have a benefit. And what they represent, again, is these things that don't leverage the other parts of your body in, in terms of the chains, uh, that make all of the chains bigger, 'cause they're, they're, they're having a benefit. But you can't get the benefit of this if you're inside a house.

    2. SB

      So what should we do about this in terms of how, what changes should I make in my life to capitalize on this? Um, this is a br- this brand here is called Bon Charge. They do these-

    3. RS

      Yeah.

    4. SB

      ... these red light devices. They do, like, red light saunas, blankets, um, masks. They're actually a sponsor of mine because I, I started wearing this, and I think they, they found out.

    5. RS

      (laughs)

    6. SB

      Um, I started wearing it because of my girlfriend.

    7. RS

      Yeah.

    8. SB

      Uh, she was wearing it every day and I got curious, and so I, as I always do, I'm always super skeptical.

    9. RS

      Sure.

    10. SB

      So I went on- online and started looking at some of the research, and I was shocked.

    11. RS

      Yeah?

    12. SB

      It made no intuitive sense to me that a, a red light mask or any, like, red light device could have a profound, like, a, what I see as a profound impact on my health. Like, I didn't believe it-

    13. RS

      Yes.

    14. SB

      ... to start with.

    15. RS

      Yes.

    16. SB

      It was like woo-woo stuff to me.

    17. RS

      Uh, uh, yeah.

    18. SB

      But I couldn't disprove it. (laughs)

    19. RS

      Right.

    20. SB

      All the studies, many of which you've referenced, um, supported that it was having a profound impact. And as I've said on this podcast before, my girlfriend's always right.

    21. RS

      (laughs)

    22. SB

      She's, like, always ahead of the curve and always right, so I started wearing her mask and now I have my own from Bon Charge.

    23. RS

      Yeah.

    24. SB

      Sh- do you recommend these kinds of things?

    25. RS

      I, I think it's reasonable to do. Uh, I will say this, um, if you are getting enough infrared light from the sun, what we find in studies, not particularly with the mask, but we find in other things, is that these, these other areas don't have as much efficacy. It's almost to say, if you're on a ship with a bunch of people with scurvy and you already have a diet that's rich in vegetables and fruits, eating an extra lemon is not gonna be that beneficial.

    26. SB

      So what do you do?

    27. RS

      Like a lot of doctors do, we have shifts that go from 7:00 AM to 7:00 PM, so you're in the hospital, you're not gonna get outside. So at lunch, I try to get outside as much as I possibly can into the sun for my 15 minutes.

    28. SB

      What if you live in a cloudy country?

    29. RS

      So that's a good point. Uh, clouds, because they are water molecules, will absorb a lot of the infrared light, and the problem is, is that that's the, exactly the type of light that you wanna get. However, even on a cloudy day, being outside, you're gonna get more infrared light than if you were inside. Yeah.

    30. SB

      Okay. So I still get the light I need when it's cloudy, but I just don't get a lot.

  14. 1:07:59 – 1:09:19

    Optimal Time of Day to Get Sunlight

    1. RS

      on the other end, so when is their longest day of the year? Their longest day of the year is in December, and that's when they have the least amount of deaths, despite the fact that they're all getting together for Christmas in December. So, that doesn't fly. Uh, uh, uh, it's exactly the opposite. The most amount of deaths occur in Australia, in the Southern Hemisphere, in June to July. That's their winter. And so what you see is deaths are correlated to the length of the day. This is the reason why whenever they have to, whenever they show you deaths in the year, they always have to seasonally adjust it.

    2. SB

      And the length of the day is a proxy for the amount of sunlight?

    3. RS

      Absolutely. You're much more e- you're much more likely to get sunlight on the longest day of the year than the shortest day of the year, especially when, and, and this is well-known, there, there are some months, especially in people who are doing shift work, like 7:00 AM to 7:00 PM, there's literally, like, December and January, you will not see the sun because you are going off to work before the sun gets up and you're, you're coming home after the sun has long set, so you're not, you're not able to see the sun. And so you could go literally weeks without seeing, uh, the sun at all.

    4. SB

      Is there an optimal time of day to get sunlight?

    5. RS

      Yes. So, optimal time of day to get sunlight would be,

  15. 1:09:19 – 1:11:13

    Circadian Rhythm and Light Exposure

    1. RS

      for those that are concerned about getting damage from ultraviolet radiation, as we talked about, when the sun is low in the sky, that's gonna be beneficial because the ultraviolet cannot penetrate obliquely through the atmosphere as well as long wavelength radiation. So, when the sun is coming up-

    2. SB

      So, in the mornings?

    3. RS

      ... in the mornings, and when the sun is going down in the evenings. That's gonna be the time where you're gonna get proportionally more infrared light and the least amount of ultraviolet light. Now, when the sun is directly overhead at noon, you're gonna be getting the most amount of infrared light at that time, but you're also gonna be getting a lot of ultraviolet radiation. And so if you're not someone that's gone out into the sun a lot, you may want to avoid this period of time. Or, as we talked about, put on a broad-brimmed hat, put on clothes. (laughs) I mean, more clothes, because as we've said, ultraviolet light does not penetrate through clothes very well, but infrared light can.

    4. SB

      Does it matter where the sun is hitting on my body?

    5. RS

      Shouldn't.

    6. SB

      So, if I go outside and I'm wearing a big hat, it's obviously gonna cover my eyes, my face.

    7. RS

      Yes.

    8. SB

      But it'll be hitting my legs.

    9. RS

      For the purposes of we're talking about with the mitochondria, it will not matter. However, if we're talking about circadian rhythm, if we're talking about, uh, getting the circadian rhythm, that pathway is through the eyes, so you wanna maximize light through the eyes. Yeah. So, so this type of a light is called a SAD light. So, your question had to do with what part of the body does it need to touch, so, or need to be, uh, touching. So, for the effect of the mitochondria and, and the metabolic effects, it, it should not matter, okay? For this type of a light though, what we're looking at is circadian rhythm, and that's a com- that's a completely different system that we're talking about. That's not mitochondrial. That has to do with the internal clock that's in your brain that is regulating when all of these things in your body happens. And this light is about 10,000

  16. 1:11:13 – 1:12:47

    Benefits of SAD Light Therapy

    1. RS

      lux. Lux is a way of measuring the brightness of light, and what studies have shown is that when you shine this type of a light into your eyes, it ha- it, it's the way of, of adjusting your circadian rhythm. You know how if you- if you have a clock and it's not set to the right time, there's a little thing at the back that you can pull out and you can change the time?

    2. SB

      Yeah.

    3. RS

      That pulling out and, and changing the time about when things happen in your body is affected most by light, and light can actually shift it one way or the other depending on when you're shining that light. If you're shining the light in the morning time, and this is what a lot of people do, is they'll use these, these what they call SAD lights, SAD stands for seasonal affective disorder, these lights, especially in the morning, have a way of, of not only setting your circadian rhythm and making sure it's on track, but also reducing depression. There's a, there's a portion in your brain that receives light information, it's called the perihabenular nucleus. It's a long name, but it's, it's, it's back there, and if it doesn't get stimulated, it, it can cause depression. And so, so for people who live at high latitudes, uh, further away, closer to the poles, where the sun is getting up very late in the morning and they're already off at work inside, this can actually be very beneficial. So, what I would recommend doing, you can pick these up pretty cheaply on Amazon for about 20 bucks, but they should generally be about 11 to 16 inches from your face, and, uh, what people should be getting is about 3,000 lux hours. Uh, and what I mean by lux hours is you multiply the lux times

  17. 1:12:47 – 1:14:56

    Can Looking Through a Window Help Circadian Rhythm?

    1. RS

      the amount of hours that you're wearing it, so 3,000 is where you oughta be. Because this is 10,000 lux, you only have to look at it for about a third of an hour or 20 minutes, and that should be enough.

    2. SB

      So, is this a replacement for going outside?

    3. RS

      It's a replacement for going outside a-... because of the fact that you're living at a very high latitude and the sun is not up, and because of the job that you have, it's going to, uh, it's gonna have that effect. But realize that this will not replace the effect that the sun has on your mitochondria. This is only to affect the effect that lack of sunlight has on depression.

    4. SB

      Okay.

    5. RS

      Yeah.

    6. SB

      So what if I'm looking at the sun out of a window?

    7. RS

      It depends on the window. So you're not... Still, the window is going to be reducing the amount of lux, so I would not recommend... If you can, I would not recommend... I would not say that staying inside looking out the window is the same as going outside. That's number one. The other thing that you have to understand is th- a lot of these windows, especially if they're modern windows, will be specifically designed to reduce infrared light.

    8. SB

      I want you to give some in- me any information you have-

    9. RS

      Yeah.

    10. SB

      ... as it relates to light health-

    11. RS

      Yeah.

    12. SB

      ... that will improve my life, things that I can ac- actionably do tomorrow. Obviously, one of them is that I'm gonna go outside and make sure I get some sunlight, ideally in the morning.

    13. RS

      Yes.

    14. SB

      We talked about this SAD lamp for people especially that live in certain countries which i- which have less sunlight-

    15. RS

      Correct.

    16. SB

      ... to set their circadian rhythm and to help with things like mental health. Is there anything else I should be thinking about or can do or change?

    17. RS

      Yes. So just like we had in our mnemonic of NEWSTART, rest and exercise, both at the same time, and th- yet they're sort of like opposite of each other, it's important to have darkness.

    18. SB

      Okay.

    19. RS

      It's important to have darkness, and this is a real issue. This is one of the biggest issues is the fact... Uh, there was a study that was published recently and the title was Dark Days and Bright Nights, and that correlated with m- uh, increased mortality. So-

    20. SB

      I mean, that's how most of us live.

    21. RS

      That's the problem. We have dark days and we have bright nights. And what we really should be having is bright days and dark nights. So just as important as it is to have bright sunlight and getting outside in the middle of the day, we also need to start working on getting darker nights as

  18. 1:14:56 – 1:17:16

    Why Should We Avoid Bright Screens at Night?

    1. RS

      well.

    2. SB

      And how do we do that?

    3. RS

      Turning things off. Uh, getting the screens away from our eyes. Um, these are really important because the screens have a lot of light, and the light... What's going on here, this is the reason why it's important, there's two reasons actually, is the light that's going into our eyes is- is doing two things at night. Number one, it is shutting down melatonin production from the pineal gland. And as we just talked about, melatonin's a very powerful antioxidant that's very beneficial. (clears throat) The second thing that it's doing is it's confusing your circadian rhythm. You see, your circadian rhythm is designed to see light as day. If your s- if your eyes are seeing light, your brain thinks it's the day. So if it's 10 o'clock at night and your eyes are seeing light, your circadian rhythm is saying, "I must've made a mistake. I thought it was 10 o'clock. It must not be 10 o'clock because look, there is light." And so what it's going to do is it's going to adjust itself and delay everything, because it's saying, "Well, it can't be 10 o'clock at night. It must be 6 o'clock." And so therefore, when you would normally feel tired and sleepy at 10 o'clock at night, after a number of days of doing this, you're not gonna feel sleepy until one o'clock in the morning.

    4. SB

      These devices we have, they spit out a lot of blue light, right?

    5. RS

      Yes.

    6. SB

      Is there a way to, like, turn that off effectively?

    7. RS

      Yeah. Well, actually, a lot of these come with, uh, with- with, uh, tied to the clock, where after a certain time of night, it will shift its- its, uh, spectrum to a more red spectrum, so it's giving you less blue light. The problem is, is that while the sensor in your eyes are tuned more to blue light, it's not just blue light. So really, the solution, the best solution is to turn off the light. The next best solution is to have more of a red shift, or, you know, put these glasses on at night. So these are blue blockers. They're trying to eliminate blue. But I'm- I'm still getting light in, and that's enough light to shut down melatonin production. So-

    8. SB

      Even with those on?

    9. RS

      Yeah, absolutely.

    10. SB

      But you're telling me these help?

    11. RS

      They're better than not turning off the light.

    12. SB

      And you're saying I still get light in because there's light coming over the top?

    13. RS

      Even- even that light there is still going to bleed, and, uh, it's gonna bleed into that part of the spectrum and cause melatonin to be shut down.

  19. 1:17:16 – 1:19:08

    Should the Bedroom Be Completely Dark at Night?

    1. RS

      Yeah.

    2. SB

      So it's just the eyes are the sort of, the barometer for-

    3. RS

      Correct.

    4. SB

      ... what time of day it is?

    5. RS

      Correct. And- and the problem is, is that even when you close your lids, light can still get through the lids.

    6. SB

      What do you think of these sleep masks?

    7. RS

      I think they're- I think they're great, uh, in terms of the fact that we now know that closing your eyelids still can allow some light to go in. So if you're in a- if you're sleeping in an (laughs) environment where, you know, light is outta your control, if you're living in the city and you can close your blinds but there's still light that's coming in, these things could actually be, uh, very beneficial. I don't recommend li- night lights in bedrooms.

    8. SB

      You don't recommend them?

    9. RS

      I do not. Uh, even- even clock radios or air conditioners with LED displays on them, that's- that's just, like, total light pollution to your bedroom. Your bedroom should be as dark as possible.

    10. SB

      What if I have those lamps that don't have blue light in them? 'Cause I think my girlfriend's put some of those by the bed.

    11. RS

      Yeah.

    12. SB

      Do they- d- are they still not great?

    13. RS

      A- a- again, the best thing is no light. The second-best thing is light with no blue light in it. And then the worst is, you know, blue light.

    14. SB

      What about candlelight?

    15. RS

      That's interesting. Um, there was a study that was done where they compared someone reading at night with a book with a- a light bulb shining on it-

    16. SB

      Mm-hmm.

    17. RS

      ... versus the LED, uh, you know, like a Kindle or whatever, okay? What they found was that there was a lot more light coming out of the Kindle than there was just reading the book with the- with the lamp, and it re- and it delayed sleep onset. So-

    18. SB

      Which delayed sleep onset?

    19. RS

      The Kindle.

    20. SB

      The Kindle?

    21. RS

      Yeah. It delayed sleep on- enough to actually shut down- uh, actually delay the circadian rhythm and shut down melatonin production. So the answer to your question is, is candlelight's great. The only thing I'd be concerned about is just the fire risk.

    22. SB

      Yeah. (laughs) 'Cause if you fall asleep with that thing...

    23. RS

      Exactly.

    24. SB

      So the adjacent topic there was vitamin

  20. 1:19:08 – 1:20:59

    Do Vitamin D Supplements Work?

    1. SB

      D, which we-

    2. RS

      Yeah.

    3. SB

      ... we touched on a little bit. Do vitamin D supplements work?

    4. RS

      Oh, yeah, certainly.

    5. SB

      They do work?

    6. RS

      Oh, it's-

    7. SB

      They tested them?

    8. RS

      Yeah. There's a number of studies that have come out. Uh, Martineau, uh, actually published in The British Medical Journal, this was back before (laughs) 2020, uh, it was a meta-analysis of randomized control trials, showed that people who supplement every day with vitamin D had lower risks of acute chest syndrome. The other, uh, one, there was a recent study that came out that showed that people who supplemented with 2,000 international units a daily of vitamin D had a lower risk of all cause autoimmune conditions. We're talking rheumatoid arthritis, Crohn's disease, ulcerative colitis, you name it. Uh, that wa- that was a, uh, a study that came out that we actually reviewed that on our, on our MedCram channel.

Episode duration: 2:05:15

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