World Leading Psychologist: How To Succeed In Life & World: Jamil Qureshi

1. 0:00 – 3:00

   Introducing Jamil Qureshi and His Work with Elite Performers

   1. JQJamil Qureshi0:00

      And this is why Tiger Woods keeps working. This is why Warren Buffett keeps working. It's why Richard Branson keeps working. (whoosh) The only way in which businesses or people will become successful and truly perform to their optimum is ... Amazing question. I think that's one, probably the best question I've ever been asked. (instrumental music plays)

   2. SBSteven Bartlett0:23

      Jamil, thank you for joining me today, sir. It's a pleasure to have you here so early in the morning. I, I typically on this podcast will, won't introduce people because, um, I, I, I'll do a little bit of a pre-introduction, but your, your background and the work you've done, specifically with high-performance people and successful people, is so compelling and fascinating that I feel like I want you to introduce yourself. And I read through your bio-

   3. JQJamil Qureshi0:49

      (laughs)

   4. SBSteven Bartlett0:49

      ... multiple times, and it was deeply inspiring, and, uh, I think without an introduction, everything we talk about from here on, without the perfect introduction, which I feel like only you'll give, everything we talk about from here on, um, might not have the c- the context it needs to have. So, who is Jamil Qureshi?

   5. JQJamil Qureshi1:07

      Uh, I'm a performance coach and psychologist. So, I've sort of spent my time working with some very good sports teams, some very good business teams, um, some-

   6. SBSteven Bartlett1:15

      You're being humble, aren't you? (laughs)

   7. JQJamil Qureshi1:16

      ... some, some successful people. And I guess what I do is I help people cultivate a mindset for success.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett1:21

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JQJamil Qureshi1:21

      So I would say that for us to act differently, we need to think differently. If we're gonna create different behaviors, different actions, this is about creating different thoughts first. So, so I, I guess what I do more than anything else is help people change their mind. So, um, all I see is new, new opportunities, new possibilities that will come from new perspectives. So a lot of my time is spent working with people, not to give them new skills, but more to, uh, allow them to understand the skills that they've already got, and then create a perspective for them to use it differently. So, um, as a performance coach, I think everyone can be better, everyone can perform better. At home, it's just a matter of, I guess, trying to create the mindset, the attitude, um, I guess some of the precursors to those per- to the performance which are, which are beneficiary to- which are of benefit to them.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett2:07

       And so you said that everybody has the skills. And I, I, I, I, you know, I, I see that in a lot of my friends. I see that they have a lot more sort of, um, natural capabilities than they've managed to sort of give the world through their actions. If someone has an ambition to be something, if they have the ambition to be, you know, a sports, uh, star, I know you've worked with a lot of athletes and you've worked with business people, or they wanna start a business, what you tend to see, uh, and what I tend to see in my inbox is a lot of people with intention, but there seems to be something preventing that intention from turning into action, or, like, behavior.

   11. JQJamil Qureshi2:42

       Yeah. Into an achievement.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett2:43

       Yeah.

   13. JQJamil Qureshi2:44

       Yeah. Yeah, and I think that, you know, turning ambition into achievement is the key because, you know, most people will have good intentions. Most people will be wishing and hoping to be better. But there's a big difference between wishing and hoping and believing and executing upon it. So I think that the people who genuinely execute on

2. 3:00 – 8:00

   From Ambition to Achievement: Talent, Practice, and Self‑Investment

   1. JQJamil Qureshi3:00

      it probably want it more for a start.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett3:03

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JQJamil Qureshi3:03

      And, um, and that's the key. No one's ever wandered around the bottom of a mountain and then simply found themselves at the top.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett3:08

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JQJamil Qureshi3:08

      And, um, it does take that determination, the resilience. It does take the ability to execute upon ideas to drive success.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett3:16

      Mm-hmm.

   7. JQJamil Qureshi3:16

      So I think the key is the desire, which is fueled by having a purpose, a mission, a vision towards what that end goal should look like.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett3:24

      A lot of people, um, can't quite, uh, they say one thing. They say that their, their purpose is to go to the gym-

   9. JQJamil Qureshi3:33

      Yeah.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett3:33

       ... for example.

   11. JQJamil Qureshi3:34

       We all say one thing and do the other. (laughs)

   12. SBSteven Bartlett3:35

       Yeah, and why, and why is that? Like, because it's ha-

   13. JQJamil Qureshi3:38

       Yeah.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett3:38

       ... sometimes hard to distinguish with someone whether that's their real-

   15. JQJamil Qureshi3:41

       Yeah.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett3:41

       ... sort of desire, or whether they're kind of, like, virtue signaling to themselves-

   17. JQJamil Qureshi3:46

       Yeah.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett3:46

       ... that they wanna be something or, you know, they wanna start a business or become an entrepreneur or be, you know, get a six-pack. But then their actions show that, quite a different story. So I always wonder that with my, some of my friends. I always think, are they, do they actually want that?

   19. JQJamil Qureshi3:59

       Yeah.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett4:00

       Or are they just ...

   21. JQJamil Qureshi4:01

       It's very easy to say that this is what I'm after and much harder to do it. And I think one of the reasons why is because, um, we have to invest. We self-invest. So you probably won't have these, um, uh, kids at school who are great footballers at 14, 15. You think, "You know what? They're gonna make it. They're just brilliant. They're gonna make it." Um, or great track athletes at 12, you know, and you just think, "They're special." But they don't make it. And the reason why they don't make it is they don't self-invest. So the people who make it are the ones who, um, will get up on a rainy Friday morning, get up on a rainy Saturday morning to go and practice whilst their mates are in bed, the ones who will practice on a Friday night when their mates are out drinking.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett4:42

       Mm-hmm.

   23. JQJamil Qureshi4:43

       Um, and so talent is not enough. And, um, you need talent plus teachability. So talent plus the ability to be open-minded, agile in our thinking, to commit to practice and turn that practice into something which develops our talent even further.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett4:58

       Mm-hmm.

   25. JQJamil Qureshi4:58

       So, there's lots of people with talent in business, lots of people with talent in sport, um, but I guess that we need to be open-minded enough to invest in how we practice our talent to become successful. So, you know, there's no, there's no substitute for practice. You know, I get lots of golfers who say to me that, "Yeah, can you make me better?"

   26. SBSteven Bartlett5:16

       Mm-hmm.

   27. JQJamil Qureshi5:16

       You know, and, you know, the number one golfer in the world will practice more than any, any amateur. You know, and, you know, there lies the truth. But, you know, we need to, we need to apply ourselves in a particular manner, and so we need to be practical about how we exercise our talent. Need to create good feedback loops to understand what we're doing.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett5:34

       Mm-hmm.

   29. JQJamil Qureshi5:34

       Gain better personal introspection and self-awareness to allow us to use our talents differently.

   30. SBSteven Bartlett5:40

       How do you give someone that purpose, though? Like, I'm trying to think, like, so we know, we know practice is, like, so incredibly important to master something. But my, I guess my question is, um, how, how would you give someone that motivation? Because, uh, I, I, I guess you, you can't give someone purpose. A lot of us spend so much of our lives trying to, to motivate people, right? To motivate friends, families, you know, siblings, whatever it might be. Um, and I'm wondering if there's a thing we can do as, like, loving friends or whatever to, to give someone that kick.
3. 8:00 – 14:00

   Purpose, Passion, and Why Tiger Woods Still Trains

   1. JQJamil Qureshi8:00

      talking to people about behaviors. We say to our friends that, "You should give up smoking or eat healthier," whatever it might be. The only way in which you change actions is by changing thoughts. So we think, and then we feel, and then we act. That's how we work. So if you're constantly working on actions, we're telling people to be different, and this is why New Year's resolutions fail, "From tomorrow, I'll be different."

   2. SBSteven Bartlett8:20

      Yeah. (laughs)

   3. JQJamil Qureshi8:20

      "Start doing this, I'm gonna stop doing that," and we start talking about actions and behaviors. Um, we need to go back to the, um, w- to the precursor of all our actions, which is our thoughts. So the only way in which you genuinely drive commitment rather than compliance, when it comes to change in your team, in your friends, you know, in yourself, is by changing the words and pictures in your head or their head to drive different feelings and then different actions. There's, um, uh, there's a little tip, which I sometimes, uh, give leaders and I say to leaders, "Never say to your team, 'You're going to make a change.'" You say to your team, "I'm going to make a change," they won't like it. Um, say to your team, "I'd like to try an experiment," they'll all, they'll all be on board with it and, um, will give that a go and that's okay.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett9:02

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JQJamil Qureshi9:02

      But, um, so even just a difference in language to allow someone to think differently or make them feel differently, and hopefully, therefore choose to act in a different manner.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett9:10

      And how, how would I get someone to change their thoughts?

   7. JQJamil Qureshi9:13

      Uh, yeah. (laughs)

   8. SBSteven Bartlett9:15

      (laughs)

   9. JQJamil Qureshi9:15

      So have you got anyone in vi- in mind? Is there-

   10. SBSteven Bartlett9:17

       I have, I have, yeah.

   11. JQJamil Qureshi9:18

       (laughs) You know, um, I think, um, I think the best way is gamification. Um, what holds people in place is what they believe to be true. And so, um, so people will sit around a boardroom table and they'll discuss strategy, and they'll say, "Well, you know, look, we can do this, but we can't do that." And they'll have a viewpoint on budgets, on consumer buying behaviors, on- on compliance and governance, and that's what holds us in place. So what we need to do is break free of some of the parameters that we think are in the way. So if we got people round a boardroom table and said, "Look, guys, let's just, this strategy piece that we're gonna talk about, let's imagine we've got an unlimited marketing budget for it. If we had an unlimited marketing budget for it, I know we haven't, but if we had, what would we be doing? How would we be doing it? Um, you know, if we had no marketing budget, what would we be doing?" Now, what we're doing here is that we are helping people to move outside of the mental tramlines that we all operate under and under habitual thinking. So let's ask some what if questions and, "Can you imagine that, you know, a- a life if you weren't smoking?"

   12. SBSteven Bartlett10:21

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JQJamil Qureshi10:21

       And tell me, "What would it look like?" And tell them, "What would you be doing today if you weren't smoking? What would you spend your money on that you'd save on cigarettes?" And tell me, just play the game of what if. So let's break free of some of the things which are holding people in place by, um, not by conflict, not by arguing and- and debate in a confrontational manner, but finding some common ground and working from there. And a common ground is, let's play a game.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett10:46

       And you- you- you said there, you know, about people finding that purpose, um, in their lives. Uh, uh, you, we hear this, uh, phrase, um, a lot, which is, "Find your passion."

   15. JQJamil Qureshi10:56

       Yeah.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett10:57

       And I almost feel that it's- it's, in many respects, quite harmful because it, that question is kind of loaded. It- it assumes a singular passion for a start.

   17. JQJamil Qureshi11:06

       Yeah.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett11:06

       It assumes that you can discover it like an Easter egg. And then, and also, um, the- the context in which that question usually sits in, it implies that once you find it, then it's, you know, then it's the- the- the... it's a kind of unlimited, like, happiness and orientation forever-

   19. JQJamil Qureshi11:24

       Yeah.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett11:24

       ... and then that's yours. And it- it... I just feel like sometimes language can be harmful because it- it simplifies very complex things, and sometimes multifaceted, plural things, you know? So I wondered if that, you know, that phrase, uh, "Find your per- find your passion," was something you, um, you felt similar about or you...

   21. JQJamil Qureshi11:42

       (laughs)

   22. SBSteven Bartlett11:42

       Yeah.

   23. JQJamil Qureshi11:42

       Yeah, I do. I mean, yeah, uh, uh, it's true that passion can be a significant multiplier of human potential.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett11:47

       Mm-hmm.

   25. JQJamil Qureshi11:48

       So, you know, if people are passionate and engaged in a business, they can direct their energy in a, in a worthwhile and meaningful manner. So- so- so it's- it's worthwhile, but you're right, uh, that, you know, there's a big difference between passion, a big difference between happiness and joy. Um, some are in the moment. Um, I think joy is in the moment and I think happiness is something, um, that we continually- continually adjust towards. Um, you know, passion can be a significant multiplier of human potential, particularly in the workplace. So it does have a place, it is something which is useful to understand. And then ultimately, it always comes down to...... personal introspection and self-awareness for me. And I think that, um, we need to work harder at understanding ourselves and when we are constructing a mindset which is conducive to performance. So, we optimize our potential when we're in a particular state of mind. And that state of mind might be passion, it might be relaxation, it might be enthusiasm, might be enjoyment. But we need to almost get to know ourselves and know that, um, there are certain things which enable us to do others. And, uh, and once we work backwards and understand what that looks like, maybe we can gain some more consistency. I say to a lot of sports people and to a lot of business people that consistency of mind gives you consistency of play. And I'm convinced of it. You know, the more consistent we can be in our thinking, we understand, um, the building blocks, the component parts to success, you know, t- the more success we can have.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett13:17

       And how does one establish consistency of thought? Um, 'cause I completely agree with that. I completely agree. I've seen that in my own life. When I've been consistent with my thinking, I've managed to, you know, um, perform the same habits every day.

   27. JQJamil Qureshi13:29

       Yeah.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett13:29

       Um, but then sometimes I'll lose consistency in my thoughts because I lose, um, I lose... I guess I l- lose attachment or sort of my anchor with my- my why.

   29. JQJamil Qureshi13:40

       Yeah.

   30. SBSteven Bartlett13:40

       And I- I talk a lot... I've talked a lot on this podcast over the last couple of weeks about this realization I've had this year with the gym, which was every year, February, March, I was incredibly motivated to go. I was fired up, trying to look good-
4. 14:00 – 25:00

   Changing Thoughts to Change Behavior: Language, Experiments, and Gamification

   1. SBSteven Bartlett14:00

      right?

   2. JQJamil Qureshi14:00

      Yes.

   3. SBSteven Bartlett14:00

      So then you get into September and the why which made you go into think consistently every day has been... has evaporated. And I'm tr- I can't get myself to go to the gym in October. (laughs) and I'm like-

   4. JQJamil Qureshi14:10

      Right. You look in great shape for it.

   5. SBSteven Bartlett14:12

      This was the year.

   6. JQJamil Qureshi14:13

      (laughs)

   7. SBSteven Bartlett14:13

      This is the year I realized-

   8. JQJamil Qureshi14:15

      Right. Okay.

   9. SBSteven Bartlett14:15

      This was the year I realized and this is the year I bucked the trend for the first time in my life.

   10. JQJamil Qureshi14:19

       Okay.

   11. SBSteven Bartlett14:19

       Because I realized that I thought to myself every single year, I- I'd- I'd do it for this period and then I stop. And they're two different people. August Steve and October Steve don't know each other.

   12. JQJamil Qureshi14:29

       (laughs)

   13. SBSteven Bartlett14:29

       They're like... You know what I mean? They're like twins-

   14. JQJamil Qureshi14:31

       Yeah.

   15. SBSteven Bartlett14:31

       ... that were separated at birth. And so this was the year where I realized what I was doing and why I was losing my motivation. So I thought, "Fuck it. You know, I'm gonna anchor my why to something a bit more, uh, long term and without a timeline." So I said to myself, "Listen, I persuaded myself of all the reasons why I want to be healthy and view my life as one season." (inhales deeply) And that's what's allowed me to persevere.

   16. JQJamil Qureshi14:56

       Okay.

   17. SBSteven Bartlett14:56

       And also, I- I got a bit pissed off with myself. I thought, "Right, you're really like that, like weak." (laughs)

   18. JQJamil Qureshi15:00

       (laughs)

   19. SBSteven Bartlett15:00

       Like, do you know what I mean? Like, "You're that vain."

   20. JQJamil Qureshi15:02

       Yeah.

   21. SBSteven Bartlett15:02

       "And you're like..." You know, but so, yeah.

   22. JQJamil Qureshi15:04

       Yeah. Do you know, I mean, I always think that consistency of mind comes from understanding the intrinsic quality of our decision-making processes.

   23. SBSteven Bartlett15:12

       Mm.

   24. JQJamil Qureshi15:12

       And I say that a lot to people in sport and in business. So, you know, you can make a good decision and have a really bad outcome, or you can make a bad decision and have a good outcome. And this is why I work with leadership teams who have confused luck for genius.

   25. SBSteven Bartlett15:26

       Mm.

   26. JQJamil Qureshi15:26

       They had a really bad decision but a great outcome.

   27. SBSteven Bartlett15:28

       Yeah.

   28. JQJamil Qureshi15:28

       You know, markets have changed, competition's done something. Something's just worked in their favor. Um, so, um, so it's really important for us to not judge our decision-making by our outcomes, and we often do. So we all say, "This is a good decision 'cause it resulted in this," or, "This is a bad decision, it resulted in that." Um, and we can only understand the outcome retrospectively. So it's wrong to measure our decisions by the outcomes. And then we need to go back to how we made a decision in the first place. And once we start to understand the intrinsic quality of our decision-making process, we can become more consistent in how we make decisions-

   29. SBSteven Bartlett16:03

       Mm.

   30. JQJamil Qureshi16:03

       ... and therefore have more control over those outcomes. So I think that, you know, two things. That I- I think that... And then we'll use you as the example here, Steve.
5. 25:00 – 41:00

   Consistency, Decision Quality, and One‑Degree Changes

   1. JQJamil Qureshi25:00

      more responsibility in the Western world, 'cause I- I agree with you. I think that many of us will see ourselves as a victim of circumstance and situation, and not necessarily see the beauty in the chaos because of it.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett25:11

      Mm-hmm. You talk there about the- the internet as well, and the power of the internet, and how that's been a bit of a leveler, which is-

   3. JQJamil Qureshi25:17

      Yeah.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett25:18

      ... which is a really wonderful thing, I think. Um, what, how important is it, do you, do you think, when you think about the successful people you've worked with, to be a sort of self-driven learner beyond school? Um, do- do you see in the, specifically in the sort of upper echelons of, like, business, the ones that, uh, the people that are most successful are proactive, sort of self-driven ...

   5. JQJamil Qureshi25:40

      Yes, yeah. I think that, I think it's true. I think that, um ... I would say that our only sustainable competitive advantage is to learn faster and better than your competitors. So, you know, and you think about that for a business, you think about that for a leader, you know, you think about it as a sportsman, and it's probably true, isn't it? You know, our only sort of com- sustainable competitive advantage is just learn faster and better than anyone else.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett26:02

      It's like that two parallel line, line analogy.

   7. JQJamil Qureshi26:03

      And ... Yeah, yeah.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett26:04

      Yeah.

   9. JQJamil Qureshi26:04

      And I think that, you know, and I think that y- I think that, how can we learn faster and better, you know, if we're not proactive, life-long learners? And so, you know, and I think that, you know, learning isn't necessarily about being taught. Um, we don't necessarily need teachers. Um, it's a strive for greater curiosity. You know, I think curiosity is worth more than creativity at the moment, but it's a strive for greater curiosity. It's a matter of being, a matter of being open-minded. It's a matter of being, um, agile in our thinking so we can deploy resource to opportunity as it becomes visible.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett26:36

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JQJamil Qureshi26:36

       Um, it's about, um, it's about self-discovery. So it's about, you know, a variety of things which are based not necessarily upon traditional learning, but more in a way in which we can open our mind up to experimentation and feedback, you know, and understanding ourselves differently. And I think the best leaders, um, you know, have this ability to, you know, reimagine, repurpose, reinvent. I don't think they're beholden to a particular, or wedded to a particular mindset.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett27:06

       But that's, for a lot of people, that's terrifying, the thought of-

   13. JQJamil Qureshi27:09

       Yes.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett27:09

       ... experimentation and being agile and reinvention. I've seen that in my own business. I've seen over the years, I was, um, I was known as being the guy that would walk in, I think a lot of l- business leaders are, walk in in the morning and be like, "We're going in a different direction. Everyone come in this room."

   15. JQJamil Qureshi27:23

       Right.

   16. SBSteven Bartlett27:23

       "We're gonna s- launch this part of our business, and we're gonna take it, and we're gonna experiment." And I, I would often say to our team that experimentation is, like, at the heart of all of our strategy. It's like why, especially as a social media company where our platforms ch- social media changes every day, there's new updates pushed by Facebook and Instagram every day.

   17. JQJamil Qureshi27:40

       Yes.

   18. SBSteven Bartlett27:40

       Um, so our f- our company slogan was keeping, "Keeping brands at the forefront of what's possible," which meant that we had to be agile. But I would often see people in my organization that were really against change, fearful of it. They would take, you know, they would resist it.

   19. JQJamil Qureshi27:55

       Yeah.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett27:55

       You know? Uh, and I- I h- I, um, I wonder how you, if it's, um ... I always wondered why it was, 'cause some of them had, uh, levels of imposter syndrome so they were, you know, they were just, uh, just trying to get a hang of the role they were in and not do more. They, you know, they were already, you know, confident-

   21. JQJamil Qureshi28:12

       Yeah.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett28:12

       ... but I- I wonder what your thoughts were on that.

   23. JQJamil Qureshi28:14

       I think, I think, I think people don't like change 'cause they don't know what it results in. I mean, that's one of the things. Uh, so let's take, um, let's take, uh, moving your desk.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett28:23

       Yeah. (laughs)

   25. JQJamil Qureshi28:24

       If someone sat at a desk for 10 years in a particular office and you said, "Do you know what? You need to, you need to move down the corridor. Um, we're gonna make a move." I don't know.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett28:31

       (laughs)

   27. JQJamil Qureshi28:31

       People won't like that in the slightest.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett28:33

       Right.

   29. JQJamil Qureshi28:33

       Um, if you said to them that, you know, "You need to move down the corridor. You know, we really appreciate the move. We're gonna give you a million pounds at the end of the year because of it."

   30. SBSteven Bartlett28:41

       Mm-hmm. Yeah. (laughs)
6. 41:00 – 54:00

   Responsibility, Attitude, and Dancing on a Shifting Carpet

   1. JQJamil Qureshi41:00

      and nine-year-olds just do me. I can't... You know, I just n- n- you try and apply psychology to it and it doesn't work. So the level of frustration that comes about in regard to being a parent, and again, this is my point, that, you know, we're all human beings.

   2. SBSteven Bartlett41:11

      Mm-hmm.

   3. JQJamil Qureshi41:11

      At home, so, um, so, you know, you try, you try all the influence, persuasion, and negotiation, and all the psychology and all the techniques that you know, at home, it doesn't work on four-year-olds. Doesn't work on them.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett41:23

      It's so funny, we... the guests that were sat here yesterday, Joe Wicks said the exact same thing. He said, "I'm like a, you know, calm guy," but he's just said, you know, "When I... my daughter, I'll, I'll tell her that I want to just put her down so I can clean the counter-"

   5. JQJamil Qureshi41:32

      Yeah.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett41:32

      "... and she just won't be having it." Exactly.

   7. JQJamil Qureshi41:33

      The irrationality of it is what does me.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett41:36

      Yeah.

   9. JQJamil Qureshi41:36

      And, um, so, you know, and it's, and it's, uh, you know, it, uh, it's funny because, um, it, it... I've had some really good sports people sit in front of me and say, you know, "Give me..." You know, "Can you... Have you got something that makes me better then?"

   10. SBSteven Bartlett41:47

       Mm-hmm.

   11. JQJamil Qureshi41:47

       And then you give them something and they go away, they come back a week later and they say like, "I tried that, it doesn't work. Have you got anything else?"

   12. SBSteven Bartlett41:54

       (laughs)

   13. JQJamil Qureshi41:54

       And it's a bit like going to the gym, working out for half an hour, going home, looking in the mirror and saying, "S-"

   14. SBSteven Bartlett41:58

       Yeah.

   15. JQJamil Qureshi41:58

       "... crap that."

   16. SBSteven Bartlett41:59

       (laughs)

   17. JQJamil Qureshi41:59

       "You know, no. I don't like the gym."

   18. SBSteven Bartlett42:00

       Yeah.

   19. JQJamil Qureshi42:00

       "It's rubbish. Doesn't work for me." Um, and so, and this is my point that, that, you know, it's not about tools, gimmicks and hints, it's about striving every day to be better than what you were yesterday.

   20. SBSteven Bartlett42:11

       Mm-hmm.

   21. JQJamil Qureshi42:12

       Um, I worked with a, a, a golfer who was very, very good, really good, um, and, you know, literally top 10 in the world. He spent a whole year at home and, um, and, uh, with just a piece of paper in his pocket. And he used to play with this piece of paper in his pocket, um, and it used to just say, um, uh, "What did I enjoy today and what did I learn today?" It was the only two questions on it. And then in the evening, he'd just answer those questions. So he went a whole year, "Forget the numbers. I'm not gonna look at numbers. I'm just gonna answer this question every s- So if I've had a good day or if I've had a bad day, doesn't make any difference. I'll just answer that question, these questions. What did I enjoy today and what did I learn today?"

   22. SBSteven Bartlett42:46

       Mm-hmm.

   23. JQJamil Qureshi42:46

       He had the best year he ever had at home just answering those questions.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett42:50

       Wow.

   25. JQJamil Qureshi42:50

       You know, and in a way, there almost needs to be more simplicity to not using tools and techniques, not to try and apply psychology to a four-year-old-

   26. SBSteven Bartlett42:57

       Mm-hmm.

   27. JQJamil Qureshi42:57

       ... at home, you know, but to just try and consistently enjoy and learn on a daily basis.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett43:02

       Mm-hmm.

   29. JQJamil Qureshi43:02

       You know, and so I guess in regard to like, you know, yeah, I'm still prone to say-... "God, I need to get running." Uh, uh, "I've been drinking all week, I need to do some exercise at the weekend."

   30. SBSteven Bartlett43:12

       Mm-hmm.
7. 54:00 – 1:05:00

   Learning Faster, Experimentation, and Why People Fear Change

   1. JQJamil Qureshi54:00

   2. SBSteven Bartlett54:00

      I, I, I resonate a lot with that. I, um... You said, you know, lose a parent, but the b- the reason I resonated with that is because I've said multiple times, on this podcast, again, um, that when people have asked me why, why I was successful, I, I, I cite that when I was younger, my parents weren't ever in the house, and that made- meant that I had to find a way to make money to feed myself or, you know, my mum was never in the house when I went to bed, and she was never there when I woke up 'cause she was just... She slept at her shop sometimes, and my dad worked in London five days a week-

   3. JQJamil Qureshi54:27

      Oh, okay.

   4. SBSteven Bartlett54:27

      ... which was four hours away. And I... And it was only... Of the four of us in our fam- my family, the four siblings-... that wasn't the case for my older siblings. When they were younger, or when they were m- my age, my mum and dad were in the house every day doing date nights-

   5. JQJamil Qureshi54:41

      Right.

   6. SBSteven Bartlett54:41

      ... more together. And then when I grew up, by the age of 10, I could leave the house for three days or two days and they wouldn't actually know that I'd gone.

   7. JQJamil Qureshi54:48

      Right.

   8. SBSteven Bartlett54:48

      And so that meant that I became, like, this sort of self-autonomous kid at, like-

   9. JQJamil Qureshi54:52

      Yeah.

   10. SBSteven Bartlett54:52

       ... 12, 13, 14-

   11. JQJamil Qureshi54:53

       Yeah.

   12. SBSteven Bartlett54:53

       ... 15, and then started businesses at 14-

   13. JQJamil Qureshi54:55

       Yeah.

   14. SBSteven Bartlett54:55

       ... and then, you know, went off and took off.

   15. JQJamil Qureshi54:56

       But you could've gone the other way as well, couldn't you?

   16. SBSteven Bartlett54:58

       Oh, 100%.

   17. JQJamil Qureshi54:58

       With, with that, with that, you know, with that-

   18. SBSteven Bartlett55:00

       100%.

   19. JQJamil Qureshi55:00

       You know, with that level of freedom and autonomy, but not the maturity to handle, you know, to deal with that freedom, um-

   20. SBSteven Bartlett55:07

       My friend, my best friend said to me-

   21. JQJamil Qureshi55:09

       Yeah.

   22. SBSteven Bartlett55:09

       ... and I'll never forget wh- where I stood when he said it in this takeaway shop. He said, "Stephen, you're either gonna be a criminal or a millionaire."

   23. JQJamil Qureshi55:15

       Hmm.

   24. SBSteven Bartlett55:16

       And it was because-

   25. JQJamil Qureshi55:17

       Hmm.

   26. SBSteven Bartlett55:17

       ... I had that... M- my independence-

   27. JQJamil Qureshi55:19

       Yeah.

   28. SBSteven Bartlett55:19

       ... created this connection where I knew that my outcomes-

   29. JQJamil Qureshi55:22

       Yeah.

   30. SBSteven Bartlett55:22

       ... were gonna be a direct result of my behavior. I always think of, like, school dinners as the perfect example. My, uh, uh, for a lot of my childhood, maybe up until the age of about nine, my, there was always, like, two quid on the counter, which was like, okay, you take that to school. And then by 10, the two quid wasn't there anymore.
8. 1:05:00 – 1:14:00

   Visionary Leaders, Big Missions, and Mobilizing People Emotionally

   1. SBSteven Bartlett1:05:00

      here and-

   2. JQJamil Qureshi1:05:00

      Thank you. Thank you for inviting me. (instrumental music)

Episode duration: 1:05:25