Access Your Best Self With Mind-Body Practices, Belief Testing & Imagination | Dr. Martha Beck

1. 0:00 – 1:34

   Dr. Martha Beck

   1. AHAndrew Huberman0:00

      Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life. I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. My guest today is Dr. Martha Beck. Dr. Martha Beck did her undergraduate, master's, and PhD training at Harvard University. She is also considered one of the foremost experts in the personal development field, having authored many best-selling books, including her upcoming book, Beyond Anxiety: Curiosity, Creativity, and Finding Your Life's Purpose. I must say that today's discussion is a truly special one. I've long benefited from Martha's teachings, and I assure you that during today's episode, you will benefit from Martha's teachings. She describes and we explore practices in real time that will allow you to truly understand what is most important to you and what you ought to spend your time pursuing. You'll hear a rich discussion about how to frame the thoughts and the emotions around any topic, including pain points in life, as well as your goals and the things that you are in pursuit of. You will also learn how to figure out exactly what is most essential to you, and indeed, how to explore what Dr. Martha Beck calls your essential self, those deep-rooted desires that are unique to you and your history and what will make your life most fulfilling. By the end of today's episode, you will be armed with new intellectual and practical knowledge, and you will be able to adopt the best possible stance for you as you navigate forward in your life.

2. 1:34 – 5:34

   Sponsors: BetterHelp, Helix Sleep & LMNT

   1. AHAndrew Huberman1:34

      Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford. It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero-cost-to-consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast. Our first sponsor is BetterHelp. BetterHelp offers professional therapy with a licensed therapist carried out entirely online. Now, I've been doing weekly therapy for well over 30 years. Initially, I didn't have a choice. It was a condition of being allowed to stay in high school. But pretty soon I realized that doing regular therapy is extremely important to our overall health. There are essentially three things that go into great therapy. First of all, you need to have great rapport with a therapist. So you need to be comfortable with that person. You need to be able to trust them and talk to them about all the issues that are relevant to you. Second, and this is what people normally think of when they think of a great therapist, that therapist needs to provide you support in the form of emotional support or directed guidance. And third, excellent therapy has to provide very useful insights, insights that you can apply to be better not just in your emotional life and your relationship life, but also your relationship to yourself. BetterHelp makes it extremely easy to find an excellent therapist for you, one with whom you resonate with, have excellent rapport with, and that can give you those three essential benefits of therapy. If you'd like to try BetterHelp, go to betterhelp.com/huberman to get 10% off your first month. Again, that's betterhelp.com/huberman. Today's episode is also brought to us by Helix Sleep. Helix Sleep makes mattresses and pillows that are customized to your unique sleep needs. I've spoken many times before on this and other podcasts about the fact that getting a great night's sleep is the foundation of mental health, physical health, and performance. Now, the mattress we sleep on makes an enormous difference in terms of the quality of sleep that we get each night. We need a mattress that is matched to our unique sleep needs, one that is neither too soft nor too hard for you, one that breathes well and that won't be too warm or too cold for you. If you go to the Helix website, you can take a brief two-minute quiz, and it asks you questions such as, "Do you sleep on your back, your side, or your stomach? Do you tend to run hot or cold during the night?" Things of that sort. Maybe you know the answers to those questions, maybe you don't. Either way, Helix will match you to the ideal mattress for you. For me, that turned out to be the Dusk mattress, D-U-S-K. I've been sleeping on a Dusk mattress for, gosh, now more than four years, and the sleep that I've been getting is absolutely phenomenal. If you'd like to try Helix, you can go to helixsleep.com/huberman, take that brief two-minute sleep quiz, and Helix will match you to a mattress that is customized to your unique sleep needs. Right now, Helix is giving up to 25% off mattresses and two free pillows. Again, that's helixsleep.com/huberman to get 25% off and two free pillows. Today's episode is also brought to us by LMNT. LMNT is an electrolyte drink that has everything you need and nothing you don't. That means the electrolytes, sodium, magnesium, and potassium, in the correct ratios, but no sugar. Now, proper hydration is critical for the optimal functioning of all the cells in your body, and that's especially true for the neurons, the nerve cells. In fact, we know that even a slight degree of dehydration can diminish both cognitive and physical performance. So to make sure that I'm getting proper hydration and electrolytes, I personally dissolve one packet of LMNT in about 16 to 32 ounces of water when I first wake up in the morning, and I drink that or sip that across the first half-hour of the day or so. And then I also make it a point to drink another packet of LMNT dissolved in an equal amount of water, so 16 to 32 ounces, at some other point during the day, and maybe even a third if I'm exercising and/or sweating a lot. I should mention that LMNT tastes absolutely delicious. My favorite flavor is watermelon, although I also confess I like the raspberry flavor, the citrus flavor. Basically, I like all the flavors. If you'd like to try LMNT, you can go to drinkelement.com/huberman to claim a free LMNT sample pack with the purchase of any LMNT drink mix. Again, that's drinkelement.com/huberman to claim a free sample pack. And now for my discussion with Dr. Martha Beck.

3. 5:34 – 15:31

   Tool: Perfect Day Exercise

   1. AHAndrew Huberman5:34

      Dr. Martha Beck, welcome.

   2. MBDr. Martha Beck5:36

      Oh, it's so good to be here, Andrew. Thank you.

   3. AHAndrew Huberman5:40

      I'm so excited. I mean, I don't know how to convey to the people listening and watching just how excited I am. I have very few heroes in life.

   4. MBDr. Martha Beck5:48

      (laughs)

   5. AHAndrew Huberman5:49

      But you are one of them.

   6. MBDr. Martha Beck5:51

      (laughs) I don't...

   7. AHAndrew Huberman5:54

      It's true.

   8. MBDr. Martha Beck5:54

      That does not compute.

   9. AHAndrew Huberman5:56

      It's true. I, I won't name all of them, but, you know, you, the great Oliver Sacks-

   10. MBDr. Martha Beck6:01

       Mm-hmm.

   11. AHAndrew Huberman6:02

       ... are among the people that have really influenced me so much-

   12. MBDr. Martha Beck6:06

       Mm-hmm.

   13. AHAndrew Huberman6:06

       ... in terms of the things I do.... the ways I try and think, the ways I try to not think-

   14. MBDr. Martha Beck6:12

       Oh, yeah.

   15. AHAndrew Huberman6:12

       ... at times. And your life story is an amazing one. So, we have a lot to cover today.

   16. MBDr. Martha Beck6:17

       Yay!

   17. AHAndrew Huberman6:18

       So I'm not gonna spend any more time talking about why I feel that way because it's going to just become apparent in our discussion. But I do wanna say that you have really been ahead of your time. Uh, I mean, you're triple-degreed from Harvard, you have these academic credentials, and yet you're one of the first people to be public-facing about the mind-body connection-

   18. MBDr. Martha Beck6:42

       Uh-huh.

   19. AHAndrew Huberman6:42

       ... in a way that is operationalized, what we-

   20. MBDr. Martha Beck6:45

       Mm-hmm.

   21. AHAndrew Huberman6:45

       ... sometimes call, in and around this podcast, protocols.

   22. MBDr. Martha Beck6:48

       Yeah.

   23. AHAndrew Huberman6:49

       And you offered some practices that have absolutely transformed my life-

   24. MBDr. Martha Beck6:54

       Thank you.

   25. AHAndrew Huberman6:54

       ... and other people's lives. And I gained them through reading your books and that's not a standard book advertisement, but all of your books have been transformative for me.

   26. MBDr. Martha Beck7:03

       Aw.

   27. AHAndrew Huberman7:04

       One of the exercises that has had a profound effect on my life is the perfect day exercise.

   28. MBDr. Martha Beck7:13

       Oh, yeah. The ideal day.

   29. AHAndrew Huberman7:13

       You know, and when I first read about it, I thought, you know, "What could this possibly be?" You know? And- and as I recall, it, um, it involved taking a little bit of time, maybe 10 minutes, maybe 30 minutes-

   30. MBDr. Martha Beck7:27

       Mm-hmm.
4. 15:31 – 23:31

   “Clear Eyed”, Male vs. Female

   1. MBDr. Martha Beck15:31

      of the bed and your partner's still sleeping, the dog's still sleeping. Go look out the window. Where are you? And you can be anywhere.

   2. AHAndrew Huberman15:41

      I'm a mountains guy.

   3. MBDr. Martha Beck15:42

      Mm.

   4. AHAndrew Huberman15:43

      As much as I love California, you know, I've, I've realized that... I, I just went out to g- Boulder, Colorado for the first time for a week just by myself.

   5. MBDr. Martha Beck15:52

      Mm-hmm.

   6. AHAndrew Huberman15:52

      And I fell in love with it.

   7. MBDr. Martha Beck15:53

      Yeah.

   8. AHAndrew Huberman15:54

      Um, so I'm in the mountains.

   9. MBDr. Martha Beck15:56

      Mm-hmm.

   10. AHAndrew Huberman15:56

       Colorado-

   11. MBDr. Martha Beck15:57

       Mm.

   12. AHAndrew Huberman15:58

       ... feels right to me. Um, and there's water.

   13. MBDr. Martha Beck16:03

       Uh-huh. Lake or river?

   14. AHAndrew Huberman16:05

       They're, uh, river. They've got great rivers there.

   15. MBDr. Martha Beck16:08

       Yeah, they do.

   16. AHAndrew Huberman16:09

       Um, or, or the little streams.

   17. MBDr. Martha Beck16:11

       Mm-hmm.

   18. AHAndrew Huberman16:11

       I like the little streams that they have there, um, because the rivers are so loud.

   19. MBDr. Martha Beck16:16

       (laughs) That's true.

   20. AHAndrew Huberman16:17

       (laughs) You know, the rivers are really loud when they get going. Um, yeah. And... yeah.

   21. MBDr. Martha Beck16:28

       So are you looking at a, a small town, a city, or just, do you just live out in the mountains by yourself?

   22. AHAndrew Huberman16:33

       Definitely small town. I, I can't be too isolated. If I'm going to be in a city, I'm going to be in Manhattan.

   23. MBDr. Martha Beck16:38

       Mm-hmm. Yeah.

   24. AHAndrew Huberman16:39

       I mean, it's like it's all or none.

   25. MBDr. Martha Beck16:40

       Yeah, okay.

   26. AHAndrew Huberman16:40

       So if I'm going to be in nature, I, I wanna be in nature. Um, so a small town.

   27. MBDr. Martha Beck16:45

       Beautiful. So just look around, smell the pine and aspen air, and then you go into your perfect bathroom.

   28. AHAndrew Huberman16:55

       Mm-hmm.

   29. MBDr. Martha Beck16:55

       And it's all, it's beautiful. You could go through a lot of description if you wanted to, but I'm gonna rush through that to get to the interesting parts. So you take a look at yourself in the mirror. Your body is absolutely perfect. Of course, in your case, that's not an aspirational thing, you're already there. But make it even better. (laughs)

   30. AHAndrew Huberman17:17

       Yeah, that, for me, that, that means being clear-eyed.
5. 23:31 – 30:21

   Family & Work; Directed Attention & Miracles

   1. AHAndrew Huberman23:31

      okay.

   2. MBDr. Martha Beck23:31

      And now you go to your closet, and you're gonna get dressed. Open your closet, which is the closet of clothing you have in your ideal life, and just look at the different outfits you have, the different, like how many kinds of shoes are there?

   3. AHAndrew Huberman23:44

      (laughs) This is very funny because I definitely have my ideal wardrobe, which is very sparse. I've always owned 20 or so of these button-down black shirts-

   4. MBDr. Martha Beck23:54

      I love it.

   5. AHAndrew Huberman23:54

      ... like, uh, for work purposes. I like T-shirts that are super soft.

   6. MBDr. Martha Beck23:58

      Mm-hmm.

   7. AHAndrew Huberman23:59

      And because I have a short torso and long arms, like they have to like fit right. And so I find the ones that fit right. It's a nightmare trying to get them, but once I get them, I- I adore them-

   8. MBDr. Martha Beck24:08

      (laughs) Right.

   9. AHAndrew Huberman24:08

      Uh, because... Um, I always own two belts or so.

   10. MBDr. Martha Beck24:13

       Mm-hmm.

   11. AHAndrew Huberman24:14

       One watch.

   12. MBDr. Martha Beck24:15

       Hmm.

   13. AHAndrew Huberman24:16

       Black jeans. The shorts I like, I get teased for wearing mailman shorts, but they're actually-

   14. MBDr. Martha Beck24:20

       (laughs)

   15. AHAndrew Huberman24:21

       ... the Costco-purchased mail, or like K-Mart purchased like mail person shorts. They fit best, um, for me. And, um...... and I've always worn Adidas, so-

   16. MBDr. Martha Beck24:32

       Yeah.

   17. AHAndrew Huberman24:32

       ... I'm happy there.

   18. MBDr. Martha Beck24:33

       No dress shoes?

   19. AHAndrew Huberman24:33

       Oh, yeah. I own a pair of lea- proper leather shoes. I have a suit. I actually own a tuxedo.

   20. MBDr. Martha Beck24:37

       Oh, my.

   21. AHAndrew Huberman24:38

       Um, I own those things. And, um, I like the f- I like my closet. I've always liked it.

   22. MBDr. Martha Beck24:45

       Uh-huh.

   23. AHAndrew Huberman24:45

       It feels very safe in there.

   24. MBDr. Martha Beck24:46

       Uh-huh.

   25. AHAndrew Huberman24:47

       I like, I like it. And then, um, I've always kept a couple photographs of people that I love in my closet.

   26. MBDr. Martha Beck24:53

       Oh, sweet.

   27. AHAndrew Huberman24:54

       Mm-hmm.

   28. MBDr. Martha Beck24:55

       So whose photographs are there? Do you see any photographs you don't recognize at this moment?

   29. AHAndrew Huberman24:59

       It's my sister.

   30. MBDr. Martha Beck25:01

       Mm-hmm.
6. 30:21 – 32:10

   Sponsor: AG1

   1. AHAndrew Huberman30:21

      As many of you know, I've been taking AG1 for more than 10 years now, so I'm delighted that they're sponsoring this podcast. To be clear, I don't take AG1 because they're a sponsor. Rather, they are a sponsor because I take AG1. In fact, I take AG1 once and often twice every single day, and I've done that since starting way back in 2012.There is so much conflicting information out there nowadays about what proper nutrition is. But here's where there seems to be a general consensus on: Whether you're an omnivore, a carnivore, a vegetarian, or a vegan, I think it's generally agreed that you should get most of your food from unprocessed or minimally processed sources, which allows you to eat enough, but not overeat, get plenty of vitamins and minerals, probiotics and micronutrients that we all need for physical and mental health. Now, I personally am an omnivore, and I strive to get most of my food from unprocessed or minimally processed sources. But the reason I still take AG1 once and often twice every day is that it ensures I get all of those vitamins, minerals, probiotics, et cetera, but it also has adaptogens to help me cope with stress. It's basically a nutritional insurance policy meant to augment, not replace, quality food. So by drinking a serving of AG1 in the morning and again in the afternoon or evening, I cover all of my foundational nutritional needs. And I, like so many other people that take AG1, report feeling much better in a number of important ways, such as energy levels, digestion, sleep, and more. So while many supplements out there are really directed towards obtaining one specific outcome, AG1 is foundational nutrition designed to support all aspects of well-being related to mental health and physical health. If you'd like to try AG1, you can go to drinkag1.com/huberman to claim a special offer. They'll give you five free travel packs with your order, plus a year's supply of vitamin D3K2. Again, that's drinkag1.com/huberman.

7. 32:10 – 37:22

   Unease, Restlessness & Guilt; Life Worth, Fear

   1. AHAndrew Huberman32:10

      There was something that popped to mind. I mean, there are all these little things, um, that also go into My Perfect Day that we don't have to go into every detail about-

   2. MBDr. Martha Beck32:19

      Yeah, you go through the whole evening, yeah.

   3. AHAndrew Huberman32:19

      ... like working out and the whole thing. But I just want to maybe, uh, mention a point of contrast that served as one of the reasons why I did this practice in the first place-

   4. MBDr. Martha Beck32:29

      Mm-hmm.

   5. AHAndrew Huberman32:29

      ... was that in real life, I was waking up, and sometimes still do wake up, with this, like, underlying, like, tension, like something's not right.

   6. MBDr. Martha Beck32:39

      Yeah.

   7. AHAndrew Huberman32:39

      I don't feel good.

   8. MBDr. Martha Beck32:41

      Yeah.

   9. AHAndrew Huberman32:41

      I wasn't anxious, I wasn't, like, but, like, something's not right.

   10. MBDr. Martha Beck32:44

       Yeah.

   11. AHAndrew Huberman32:44

       And I went through years of kind of, like, gnawing and scratching at different things that-

   12. MBDr. Martha Beck32:49

       Hmm.

   13. AHAndrew Huberman32:50

       ... you know, I quickly discovered, you know, like, going out for a couple drinks with people made me feel worse.

   14. MBDr. Martha Beck32:55

       Hmm.

   15. AHAndrew Huberman32:55

       L- I- I don't judge people who drink whatsoever, but I'm like, "I don't like this." Like, it doesn't-

   16. MBDr. Martha Beck32:59

       Yeah.

   17. AHAndrew Huberman33:00

       Like, I was just... But this un- unease?

   18. MBDr. Martha Beck33:03

       Uh-huh, yeah.

   19. AHAndrew Huberman33:04

       Um, this, it's like a restlessness-

   20. MBDr. Martha Beck33:05

       Yeah.

   21. AHAndrew Huberman33:06

       ... um, that lived inside of me for so long, and still can surface-

   22. MBDr. Martha Beck33:10

       Hmm.

   23. AHAndrew Huberman33:10

       ... as a signal that, like, this is not the right life.

   24. MBDr. Martha Beck33:13

       Mm-hmm.

   25. AHAndrew Huberman33:13

       And at that point, had a laboratory.

   26. MBDr. Martha Beck33:16

       Wow.

   27. AHAndrew Huberman33:17

       We had grants, we were publishing papers. Like, all these things that I loved doing and that I loved the trajectory that I took to arrive there, and the people that were in my life, but, like w- I just knew, I could just say, like-

   28. MBDr. Martha Beck33:27

       Yeah.

   29. AHAndrew Huberman33:27

       ... "Something's not right," and I felt terribly guilty. The reason-

   30. MBDr. Martha Beck33:30

       Hmm.
8. 37:22 – 46:16

   Accessing the Subconscious; Compassionate Witness Self

   1. AHAndrew Huberman37:22

      wanna just, um, for lack of a better way to put it, double click on two things. First of all-

   2. MBDr. Martha Beck37:28

      Yeah.

   3. AHAndrew Huberman37:28

      ...I, I wonder, if we're going to speculate, no need to, but if The Perfect Day exercise is really about accessing the subconscious?

   4. MBDr. Martha Beck37:36

      That's what I-

   5. AHAndrew Huberman37:37

      Mm-hmm.

   6. MBDr. Martha Beck37:37

      ...that's why I told that long story, that the, when I had to make that decision, it was the first time I had dropped everything conscious and logical from my mind, and come from a place that was... I believe it's part of our neurological apparatus, but the cognitive structures are so... You know, cognitive function is just a tiny fraction-

   7. AHAndrew Huberman37:59

      Mm-hmm.

   8. MBDr. Martha Beck37:59

      ...of what our whole nervous systems are able to detect and tell us. And for the first time, I was making a decision from every cell in my body, instead of just my, you know, neocortex. And I realized, my life is not meant to go like his life, and the person in the next bed, their life isn't meant to be like mine. But we all have this programmed into us somehow. And when we start to leave it, in my last book I called it, um, Leaving Our Integrity, because to be in integrity just means to be one thing. It doesn't have any moral implications in the original, like, Latin. It just means integer, one thing. So if we... We're born knowing who we are. But some point, at some point, usually not long after birth, we get socialized away from what, from expressing exactly what our own truth is telling us. We, we get socialized to behave in ways that please other people. Very simple. And as you're describing it, I had a great life. I had a lab, I had a dog, I had a house. Those are all socially recognized items that say your life is working, but they have nothing to do with your personal destiny.

   9. AHAndrew Huberman39:16

      Right. In the, in my case, uh, again, I loved, uh, and I still love doing science. I mean, I, um, my lab has certainly shrunk.

   10. MBDr. Martha Beck39:24

       Mm-hmm.

   11. AHAndrew Huberman39:25

       I, everyone... I got, made sure people got placed in jobs, in faculty positions, et cetera.

   12. MBDr. Martha Beck39:29

       Mm-hmm.

   13. AHAndrew Huberman39:30

       I'm still involved in some clinical trials. But, you know, one thing that pained me about the work, I'll just come clean about this, (clears throat) it makes my throat, uh, lock up a bit, is, uh, I've been an animal lover since I was a kid.

   14. MBDr. Martha Beck39:43

       Oh, yeah.

   15. AHAndrew Huberman39:44

       I do eat meat. I eat it from sustainable sources. But, you know, not all, but a lot of the work that I did in my laboratory was on animals.

   16. MBDr. Martha Beck39:53

       Yeah.

   17. AHAndrew Huberman39:53

       And at some point, it was approximately halfway through, um, my first position, I realized, I was like, "I, I, I don't like this."

   18. MBDr. Martha Beck40:04

       Yeah.

   19. AHAndrew Huberman40:04

       And we could talk all day about animal research, non-animal research-

   20. MBDr. Martha Beck40:08

       Yeah.

   21. AHAndrew Huberman40:08

       ...I decided to work on humans instead-

   22. MBDr. Martha Beck40:10

       (laughs)

   23. AHAndrew Huberman40:11

       ...um, because they, they can consent, um, and they-

   24. MBDr. Martha Beck40:13

       Right.

   25. AHAndrew Huberman40:13

       ...house themselves. Um, but, you know, there, so there were some pain points. But-

   26. MBDr. Martha Beck40:18

       Yeah.

   27. AHAndrew Huberman40:18

       ...I think my unconscious was pulling at me-

   28. MBDr. Martha Beck40:20

       Yeah.

   29. AHAndrew Huberman40:21

       ...um, like, "This isn't good. This isn't good." And, um, for me.

   30. MBDr. Martha Beck40:26

       Yeah.
9. 46:16 – 54:01

   Finding Self, Suffering, Anxiety; Tool: “KIST”, Self-Parenting

   1. MBDr. Martha Beck46:16

   2. AHAndrew Huberman46:16

      How do you go about doing that? And one of the reasons I'm asking this is because I think everyone, including myself, would do well to be able to access this-

   3. MBDr. Martha Beck46:22

      Yeah.

   4. AHAndrew Huberman46:23

      ... compassionate witness-

   5. MBDr. Martha Beck46:25

      Yeah.

   6. AHAndrew Huberman46:25

      ... Self, but also because so many people are on social media nowadays-

   7. MBDr. Martha Beck46:30

      Yeah.

   8. AHAndrew Huberman46:31

      ... where you can almost feel yourself getting pulled down these-

   9. MBDr. Martha Beck46:35

      (sighs) Wow.

   10. AHAndrew Huberman46:35

       ... um, on these trajectories, like the gravitational pull-

   11. MBDr. Martha Beck46:37

       Yes.

   12. AHAndrew Huberman46:37

       ... of a battle or, or a video or, or even something that's delightful, but then you find, like, two hours went by and you were-

   13. MBDr. Martha Beck46:44

       Right.

   14. AHAndrew Huberman46:44

       ... you overconsumed and-

   15. MBDr. Martha Beck46:46

       Yeah.

   16. AHAndrew Huberman46:46

       ... uh, and undercreated in some sense.

   17. MBDr. Martha Beck46:47

       It's like junk food. It tastes delicious, but then you feel like, "Ugh."

   18. AHAndrew Huberman46:50

       Yeah, it goes nowhere.

   19. MBDr. Martha Beck46:51

       Yeah.

   20. AHAndrew Huberman46:51

       You know, it's the, this sort of goes nowhere. Um, so do you have a practice that you use to make sure that you're in that place?

   21. MBDr. Martha Beck47:00

       I do, and it's called suffering.

   22. AHAndrew Huberman47:02

       (laughs) I'm sorry.

   23. MBDr. Martha Beck47:02

       Um, it's very reliable.

   24. AHAndrew Huberman47:04

       I don't know why that made me laugh. Forgive me.

   25. MBDr. Martha Beck47:05

       My best friend-

   26. AHAndrew Huberman47:06

       It is.

   27. MBDr. Martha Beck47:06

       ... suffering. I have a deeply love/hate re- relationship with suffering. If I'm, for example, um, I can barely look at Instagram because I will watch a monkey nursing a kitten-

   28. AHAndrew Huberman47:20

       Mm-hmm.

   29. MBDr. Martha Beck47:20

       ... and then I will be down that rabbit hole so far.

   30. AHAndrew Huberman47:23

       Mm-hmm. You and me both.
10. 54:01 – 59:14

    Self, Radiance, Death; Awakening

    1. AHAndrew Huberman54:01

       It sounds like it starts with, um, self-love, compassion.

    2. MBDr. Martha Beck54:07

       Always.

    3. AHAndrew Huberman54:07

       Like, like only from that place of compassionate witness, Self with a cap- capital S, excuse me, can we be at our best for others.

    4. MBDr. Martha Beck54:16

       Yeah. I believe it's actually the only part of us that's real. And I talked a minute ago about people who are dying. They s- they drop the pretense. They don't need the pretense of belonging to the material world or the material body anymore, and they... That radiance begins to gather in their eyes. And it's not new. It's what they came in with. If you've looked into the eyes of a young child, a little baby, you see the same thing. And it's only when people die that they put down everything else. Unless, as Eckhart Tolle says, you die before you die and learn that there is no death, because that self does not feel physical.It feels metaphysical.

    5. AHAndrew Huberman55:04

       L- let's, um, if you would, let's drill into this a little bit more, 'cause this is a, a high level, but at the same time, basic and yet abstract-

    6. MBDr. Martha Beck55:15

       Yeah.

    7. AHAndrew Huberman55:16

       ... concept. And, um, it's not often on this podcast that we talk about abstract concepts.

    8. MBDr. Martha Beck55:21

       Hmm.

    9. AHAndrew Huberman55:21

       Um, we probably don't do it enough.

    10. MBDr. Martha Beck55:23

        (laughs)

    11. AHAndrew Huberman55:23

        We get like, I like to talk about protocols, you get your sunlight-

    12. MBDr. Martha Beck55:26

        I love that stuff.

    13. AHAndrew Huberman55:26

        ... on clear days, you know? And I love that stuff too, but as probably people realize by now, I- I think a- a great life is- is bridging as many things, at least for me, as m- as possible-

    14. MBDr. Martha Beck55:37

        Yeah.

    15. AHAndrew Huberman55:37

        ... and seeing the overlap in the Venn diagrams that-

    16. MBDr. Martha Beck55:38

        Yeah.

    17. AHAndrew Huberman55:39

        Um, so it's the only part of us that's real. Um, meaning the other parts are just conditioned? I think you've said-

    18. MBDr. Martha Beck55:50

        The other parts are impermanent.

    19. AHAndrew Huberman55:52

        Mm.

    20. MBDr. Martha Beck55:52

        They will vanish. Everything, as Shakespeare says, everything will just, uh, disappear and leave not a rack behind. We are such stuff as dreams are made on. Um, there is an experience that is common to individuals all over the world in different cultures, at different times, where they start to say they feel as if they've awakened from a dream. Plato did it with his cave analogy. He said, uh, you know, i- imagine that we all live chained in a cave and there's a fire behind us and we see shadows on the wall and that's what we call reality, and then someone gets out of the cave and goes outside and sees this three-dimensional world where everything's bright and mobile, and goes back and says, "People that this is ... the shadows on the wall are real. They're real shadows, but they're not the ultimate reality. You should come outside and see it." And Plato said everybody would see it, say he was crazy. We ... And that's what academia says now. "You're crazy. If you've ever had an experience where you felt like there was something realer than your physical self, you're crazy." Like, read Plato. (laughs) Right?

    21. AHAndrew Huberman57:01

        Mm-hmm. Well, it's interesting because a few years ago, um, so many concepts that I was intrigued by, um, breath work-

    22. MBDr. Martha Beck57:09

        Mm-hmm.

    23. AHAndrew Huberman57:09

        ... for instance. Um, psychedelics.

    24. MBDr. Martha Beck57:11

        Yep.

    25. AHAndrew Huberman57:12

        Um, meditation. I mean, now, people get federal grants to study this stuff.

    26. MBDr. Martha Beck57:16

        Yeah.

    27. AHAndrew Huberman57:17

        And we do reductionist work to try and understand it. In fact, I had to disguise breath work as respiration physiology-

    28. MBDr. Martha Beck57:24

        There you go. (laughs)

    29. AHAndrew Huberman57:24

        ... um, which we did, and we did a clinical trial and, you know, lo and behold, certain patterns of breathing shift your internal state and your sleep-

    30. MBDr. Martha Beck57:30

        Huh.
11. 59:14 – 1:02:10

    Suffering & Compassionate Attention

    1. AHAndrew Huberman59:14

       it sounds like getting into the capital S self, the compassionate witness, is step number one. And so, I just wanna make sure that we make clear how one does that.

    2. MBDr. Martha Beck59:26

       Yeah, it's not step number ... Step number one is suffering.

    3. AHAndrew Huberman59:29

       Okay.

    4. MBDr. Martha Beck59:29

       We all have that. Y- you may have never felt good in your life, listener, but you have suffered. That's for sure. That's the first noble truth of Buddhism. There is suffering in this life. Pay attention to your suffering without fighting it. Allow it to be there. I did this meditation if something's physically painful or emotionally painful, I used to say, "Let go, let go," to myself. Didn't work. So one day I said, "All right, you can stay. Let it stay." And so I do a let stay meditation. If there's pain, let it stay. If there's sorrow, let it stay. And as soon as I let it stay, it begins to change. So, first step is suffering, second step is compassionate attention to one's suffering with no resistance. And the third step is to follow the compassion that is naturally being directed toward that suffering until you find yourself centered in it. And that is a huge relief. And I've done this in massive physical pain. I've done it when I'd just lost people I love. It- it's a very powerful, maybe not a panacea but not that far from it if you can get there. You're still suffering, but there's a peace that holds the suffering so lovingly that it n- it no longer concerns you. So on one level, th- that you're suffering, and on a different level which feels more real to me, there's only peace and compassion and wonder and joy and-... that somebody asked me once, "If there's a metaphysical reality, why is there suffering?" And I just heard coming out of my mouth, because, um, because the self loves experience and is not afraid to suffer. S- it's not afraid. So, then staying in that is highly motivated by the suffering you feel when you leave.

    5. AHAndrew Huberman1:01:23

       Mm-hmm.

    6. MBDr. Martha Beck1:01:24

       So, to me, that's first step, suffer. Second step, pay attention to suffering. Third step, follow compassion to its origin. Fourth step, never stop doing that. (laughs)

    7. AHAndrew Huberman1:01:36

       Mm-hmm. And every day.

    8. MBDr. Martha Beck1:01:38

       Every minute.

    9. AHAndrew Huberman1:01:39

       So... Mm-hmm.

    10. MBDr. Martha Beck1:01:40

        Yeah.

    11. AHAndrew Huberman1:01:41

        Yeah, this is very relevant to me. I, I have always wondered about, like, do you push back against the feeling? Do you live with the feeling? Do you let it amplify? It's, there's so much contradiction-

    12. MBDr. Martha Beck1:01:54

        Yeah.

    13. AHAndrew Huberman1:01:54

        ... in, inside of the typical discussion of these kinds of things.

    14. MBDr. Martha Beck1:01:58

        Mm-hmm.

    15. AHAndrew Huberman1:01:58

        That's one of the reasons I love your work so much is that, um, you don't tell people what to do, but you provide paths.

    16. MBDr. Martha Beck1:02:05

        Hope so.

    17. AHAndrew Huberman1:02:05

        Um, yeah, absolutely, you do. Um, absolutely.

12. 1:02:10 – 1:08:44

    Challenging Internal Thoughts, Understanding Truth, Body & Mind;

    1. AHAndrew Huberman1:02:10

       I'd like to talk about, um, two things. You know, before-

    2. MBDr. Martha Beck1:02:15

       Mm-hmm.

    3. AHAndrew Huberman1:02:15

       ... I came in here, I did a little meditation.

    4. MBDr. Martha Beck1:02:17

       Oh, good.

    5. AHAndrew Huberman1:02:17

       I do this before every episode, but today, I, I just, it, like, took only, like, a minute 'cause it came to me so fast, which is, the two words that pop to mind were, you know, what's real, what is true.

    6. MBDr. Martha Beck1:02:29

       Hmm.

    7. AHAndrew Huberman1:02:29

       I mean, I think so much of what we're talking about and so much of life is, like, what's real, what's true?

    8. MBDr. Martha Beck1:02:33

       Yeah. Yeah.

    9. AHAndrew Huberman1:02:34

       Um, certainly out in the world, but, like, in us.

    10. MBDr. Martha Beck1:02:37

        Yeah.

    11. AHAndrew Huberman1:02:37

        Like, what I'm hearing is that at some level, we need to not trust our thinking.

    12. MBDr. Martha Beck1:02:43

        Yeah.

    13. AHAndrew Huberman1:02:43

        But of course, there are times when we need to trust our thinking.

    14. MBDr. Martha Beck1:02:46

        Yeah.

    15. AHAndrew Huberman1:02:46

        And then, of course, we're receiving messages about what's real, what's not real, what's true, what's not true-

    16. MBDr. Martha Beck1:02:51

        Yeah.

    17. AHAndrew Huberman1:02:51

        ... sometimes about us. I mean, there's all this childhood programming.

    18. MBDr. Martha Beck1:02:54

        Right, right.

    19. AHAndrew Huberman1:02:54

        How do we start to sort through this? I, I'm guessing that has something to do with being in that compassionate witness place.

    20. MBDr. Martha Beck1:03:00

        Um, yeah.

    21. AHAndrew Huberman1:03:01

        But, but, but let's say, well, you've experienced in your life, I know because you've written and talked about this, and I certainly have now that, by some interesting twist of fate, I'm a public-facing person, people saying things about you or about me that are not true.

    22. MBDr. Martha Beck1:03:17

        Yeah.

    23. AHAndrew Huberman1:03:18

        Or that are judgments that don't feel good.

    24. MBDr. Martha Beck1:03:22

        Yeah.

    25. AHAndrew Huberman1:03:23

        Um, and we are not alone in this, right? You don't have to be public-facing-

    26. MBDr. Martha Beck1:03:26

        Yeah.

    27. AHAndrew Huberman1:03:26

        ... in order to experience this. People all the time are being told they are stupid. Sometimes they're being told they are brilliant, and they know they're not brilliant.

    28. MBDr. Martha Beck1:03:34

        Right.

    29. AHAndrew Huberman1:03:34

        Uh, you know, that, uh, this can go in every direction.

    30. MBDr. Martha Beck1:03:36

        Yeah, yeah.
13. 1:08:44 – 1:10:20

    Sponsor: Waking Up

    1. AHAndrew Huberman1:08:44

       I'd like to take a brief break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, Waking Up. Waking Up is a meditation app that offers hundreds of guided meditation programs, mindfulness trainings, yoga nidra sessions, and more. I started practicing meditation when I was about 15 years old, and it made a profound impact on my life. And by now, there are thousands of quality peer-reviewed studies that emphasize how useful mindfulness meditation can be for improving our focus, managing stress and anxiety, improving our mood, and much more. In recent years, I started using the Waking Up app for my meditations because I find it to be a terrific resource for allowing me to really be consistent with my meditation practice. Many people start a meditation practice and experience some benefits, but many people also have challenges keeping up with that practice. What I and so many other people love about the Waking Up app is that it has a lot of different meditations to choose from. And those meditations are of different durations, so it makes it very easy to keep up with your meditation practice, both from the perspective of novelty, you never get tired of those meditations, there's always something new to explore and to learn about yourself and about the effectiveness of meditation, and you can always fit meditation into your schedule even if you only have two or three minutes per day in which to meditate. I also really like doing yoga nidra, or what is sometimes called non-sleep deep rest, for about 10 or 20 minutes, because it is a great way to restore mental and physical vigor without the tiredness that some people experience when they wake up from a conventional nap. If you'd like to try the Waking Up app, please go to wakingup.com/huberman where you can access a free 30-day trial. Again, that's wakingup.com/huberman to access a free 30-day trial. I recall,

14. 1:10:20 – 1:18:30

    Western Society & Pressure

    1. AHAndrew Huberman1:10:20

       um, the inverse of the perfect day exercise...

    2. MBDr. Martha Beck1:10:24

       Mm.

    3. AHAndrew Huberman1:10:24

       ... was another one that I did, which was like, let's just call it what it was, it was like the, the sucky day, like the shitty day, right?

    4. MBDr. Martha Beck1:10:30

       (laughs)

    5. AHAndrew Huberman1:10:30

       Like or just where you'd imagine something really terrible, and then how it would cause the body to contract.

    6. MBDr. Martha Beck1:10:36

       Oh, yeah.

    7. AHAndrew Huberman1:10:37

       And to recognize, you know, the other side of the coin.

    8. MBDr. Martha Beck1:10:42

       Yeah.

    9. AHAndrew Huberman1:10:42

       Right? And, and just learning, uh, that relationship between the body and thought.

    10. MBDr. Martha Beck1:10:47

        Yeah.

    11. AHAndrew Huberman1:10:47

        I mean, I can say from my own experience that one of the biggest mistakes I ever made was teaching myself to be more resilient to certain forms of stress.

    12. MBDr. Martha Beck1:11:00

        Really?

    13. AHAndrew Huberman1:11:01

        One of the worst mistakes I ever made.

    14. MBDr. Martha Beck1:11:03

        Say more.

    15. AHAndrew Huberman1:11:03

        I, I mean, I... In my lab study stress and I talk about stress relief, and physiological size are a great way to, you know, reduce real-time stress, and I, I stand by that. So I'm not talking about that. I stand by meditation and saunas and all the things that make us feel... Vacation...

    16. MBDr. Martha Beck1:11:20

        Mm-hmm.

    17. AHAndrew Huberman1:11:20

        ... the things that relax us. So I'm not saying the ability to modulate stress is, is incredibly powerful and useful. I believe that.

    18. MBDr. Martha Beck1:11:28

        Yeah.

    19. AHAndrew Huberman1:11:28

        Um, for sure. But, um, when I was a kid, I wasn't the kid that was gonna hold the firecracker till the last second.

    20. MBDr. Martha Beck1:11:36

        Right.

    21. AHAndrew Huberman1:11:37

        I wasn't the kid that would, um, do the really daring thing.

    22. MBDr. Martha Beck1:11:40

        Uh-huh.

    23. AHAndrew Huberman1:11:40

        I had friends like that. And I felt, um, kinda sheepish about that.

    24. MBDr. Martha Beck1:11:45

        Those friends are probably dead by now. (laughs)

    25. AHAndrew Huberman1:11:46

        Uh, they're not doing well. Uh, they're not doing... That's true. And, and I grew up, um, in the then very parentless community of, of skateboarders that... And we were, a lot of us were really wild. We were very free, which I loved.

    26. MBDr. Martha Beck1:12:00

        Yeah.

    27. AHAndrew Huberman1:12:00

        The freedom part. But there was a lot of mayhem and craziness, especially back then.

    28. MBDr. Martha Beck1:12:05

        Yeah.

    29. AHAndrew Huberman1:12:05

        Um, and it's a beautiful culture. I'm still friends with a lot of those folks.

    30. MBDr. Martha Beck1:12:10

        Uh-huh.
15. 1:18:30 – 1:25:02

    Tool: Sensing Truth in Body; Meditation, “Stopping the World”

    1. MBDr. Martha Beck1:18:30

    2. AHAndrew Huberman1:18:30

       Yeah. I mean, that's a perfect segue, uh, but before I move on, um, I wanna make sure that I link back what you said, because I, I think it's exceptionally valuable about what's real, what's true.

    3. MBDr. Martha Beck1:18:42

       Yeah.

    4. AHAndrew Huberman1:18:42

       So, to really evaluate what's true, you need to sit, or maybe one can learn to do this while in motion, and sense within one's body what feels liberating-

    5. MBDr. Martha Beck1:18:57

       Yeah, what feels-

    6. AHAndrew Huberman1:18:57

       ... or opening versus what feels contracting. Is that right?

    7. MBDr. Martha Beck1:19:00

       Yeah. The Buddha used to say, he said this often, that wherever you find, um, the ocean, whatever it looks like, you can know it because the ocean always tastes of salt. And wherever you find awakening or enlightenment, no matter what it looks like, you will know it because it always tastes of freedom.So not, it's not that you stop suffering, it's that you are free. You are free to in- interact with your own suffering in a new way, and that is peace. So, you look f- and it literally, physically affects the body as not free, free. And if ev- anybody out there listening, go to a really rough time in your life and r- imagine it, I mean, go to that time in your life when you were pushing yourself and you can actually remember the tightness in your throat, in your back, in your, it's, you, ugh, it's contracted. And then remember the best moment of your life and what was happening then, and all your muscles will loosen, relax, and open.

    8. AHAndrew Huberman1:20:01

       Mm-hmm.

    9. MBDr. Martha Beck1:20:02

       And that is my gauge of truth. Does it set me free? The truth sets you free. So whatever sets you free is the truth. (laughs)

    10. AHAndrew Huberman1:20:10

        Mm-hmm.

    11. MBDr. Martha Beck1:20:11

        Um, then reality is gonna start changing for you, with or without psychedelics. And I remember sitting in the, I had this overwhelming obsession with meditation when I turned 50, and I just bought this place in the woods in central California, and I'd go out and sprinkle myself with birdseed and meditate in the forest all day while the chipmunks came and the birds would land on me.

Episode duration: 2:44:53