Navigating Conflict, Finding Purpose & Maintaining Drive | Dr Lex Fridman

1. 0:00 – 4:30

   Dr. Lex Fridman

   1. AHAndrew Huberman0:00

      (instrumental music) Welcome to the Huberman Lab Podcast, where we discuss science and science-based tools for everyday life. I'm Andrew Huberman, and I'm a professor of neurobiology and ophthalmology at Stanford School of Medicine. Today my guest is Dr. Lex Fridman. Dr. Lex Fridman is an expert in electrical and computer engineering, artificial intelligence, and robotics. He is also the host of The Lex Fridman Podcast, which initially started as a podcast focused on technology and science of various kinds, including computer science and physics, but rapidly evolved to include guests and other topics as a matter of focus, including sport. For instance, Dr. Lex Fridman is a black belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu and he's had numerous guests on who come from the fields of Brazilian jiu-jitsu, both from the coaching side and from the competitor side. He also has shown an active interest in topics such as chess and essentially anything that involves intense activation and engagement of the mind and/or body. In fact, The Lex Fridman Podcast has evolved to take on very difficult topics such as mental health, he's had various psychiatrists and other guests on that relate to mental health and mental illness, as well as guests focused on geopolitics and some of the more controversial issues that face our times. He's had comedians, he's had scientists, he's had friends, he's had enemies on his podcast. Lex has a phenomenal, I would say a one in an eight billion ability to find these people, make them comfortable, and in that comfort, both try to understand them and to confront them and to push them so that we all learn. All of which is to say that Lex Fridman is no longer just an accomplished scientist. He certainly is that, but he has also become one of the more preeminent thought leaders on the planet, and if there's anything that really captures the essence of Lex Fridman, it's his love of learning, his desire to share with us the human experience and to broaden that experience so that we all may benefit. In many ways our discussion during today's episode captures the many facets of Lex Fridman, although no conversation, of course, could capture them all. We sit down to the conversation just days after Lex returned from Ukraine, where he deliberately placed himself into the tension of that environment in order to understand the geopolitics of the region and to understand exactly what was happening at the level of the ground and the people there. You may notice that he carries quite a lot of both emotion and knowledge and understanding, and yet in a very classic Lex Fridman way, you'll notice that he's able to zoom out of his own experience around any number of different topics and view them through a variety of lenses so that first of all everyone feel included, but most of all so that everyone learns something new, that is, to gain new perspective. Our discussion also ventures into the waters of social media and how that landscape is changing the way that science and technology are communicated. We also get into the topics of motivation, drive, and purpose, both finding it and executing on that drive and purpose. I should mention that this is episode 100 of the Huberman Lab Podcast, and I would be remiss if I did not tell you that there would be no Huberman Lab Podcast were it not for Lex Fridman. I was a fan of The Lex Fridman Podcast long before I was ever invited onto the podcast as a guest, and after our first recording, Lex was the one that suggested that I start a podcast. He only gave me two pieces of advice. The first piece of advice was, start a podcast, and the second piece of advice was that I not just make it me blabbing into the microphone and staring at the camera. So I can safely say that I at least followed half of his advice and that I am ever grateful for Lex both as a friend, a colleague in science, and now fellow podcaster for making the suggestion that we start this podcast. I already mentioned a few of the topics covered on today's podcast, but I can assure you that there is far more to the person that many of us know as Lex Fridman. If you are somebody interested in artificial intelligence, engineering, or robotics, today's discussion is most certainly for you. And if you are not but you are somebody who is interested in world politics and more importantly the human experience, both the individual and the collective human experience, Lex shares what can only be described as incredible insights into what he views as the human experience and what is optimal in order to derive from our time on this planet. Before

2. 4:30 – 8:28

   LMNT, Levels, Eight Sleep

   1. AHAndrew Huberman4:30

      we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast is separate from my teaching and research roles at Stanford. It is, however, part of my desire and effort to bring zero-cost-to-consumer information about science and science-related tools to the general public. In keeping with that theme, I'd like to thank the sponsors of today's podcast. Our first sponsor is LMNT. LMNT is an electrolyte drink with everything you need and nothing you don't. That means the electrolytes, sodium, potassium, and magnesium, are in LMNT in the correct ratios, but that it has no sugar. As I mentioned before on the podcast, electrolytes are critical to the function of every cell in the body, and especially the cells in your brain, meaning the neurons or nerve cells. Indeed, the ability for nerve cells to be active and communicate with one another critically depends on sodium, potassium, and magnesium. You can get electrolytes from a variety of sources, but it's often hard to get them in the proper ratios, even from food. So if you're somebody who's exercising a lot and sweating, or if you're somebody following, for instance, a low-carbohydrate or even a semi-low-carbohydrate diet, that will cause you to excrete electrolytes. I tend to have my LMNT first thing in the morning when I wake up, or within the first few hours of waking, any time while or after I'm exercising or I've sweat a lot such as exiting the sauna. If you'd like to try LMNT, you can go to DrinkLMNT, that's L-M-N-T.com/huberman to claim a free LMNT sample pack with your purchase. Again, that's Drink LMNT, L-M-N-T.com/huberman to cla- a free sample pack. Today's episode is also brought to us by Levels. Levels is a program that lets you see how different foods affect your health by giving you real-time feedback on your diet using a continuous glucose monitor. Now blood glucose or blood sugar is a critical aspect of your immediate and long-term health, and indeed, your feelings of vigor and mental clarity and wellbeing at any moment. One of the key things is to know how different foods and food combinations and timing of food intake is impacting blood glucose, and with Levels, you're able to assess all of that in real time.I tried Levels and what it taught me, for instance, was that I can eat certain foods at certain times of day, but if I eat them at other times of day, I get a blood sugar crash. It also taught me, for instance, how to space my exercise and my food intake. Turns out for me, exercising fasted is far more beneficial. That's something I learned using Levels and it's completely transformed not just the spacing and timing of my diet and exercise, but also use of things like the sauna and other activities. It's been a tremendous learning for me that's really shaped an enormous number of factors in my life that have led to me feeling far more vigorous, with far more mental focus and physical strength and endurance. So if you're interested in learning more about Levels and trying a continuous glucose monitor yourself, go to levels.link/huberman. Again, that's levels.link, L-I-N-K, /huberman. Today's episode is also brought to us by Eight Sleep. Eight Sleep makes smart mattress covers with cooling, heating, and sleep tracking capacity. I've talked many times on this podcast about the critical relationship between sleep and body temperature. That is, in order to fall asleep and stay deeply asleep throughout the night, our body temperature needs to drop by about one to three degrees. And conversely, when we wake up in the morning, that is in large part because of our body heating up by one to three degrees. Now, people have different core body temperatures and they tend to run colder or hotter throughout the night. Eight Sleep allows you to adjust the temperature of your sleeping environment so that you have the optimal temperature that gets you the best night's sleep. I started sleeping on an Eight Sleep mattress cover about eight months ago and it has completely transformed my sleep. I sleep so much deeper, I wake up far less during the middle of the night, if at all, and I wake up feeling far better than I ever have, even after the same amount of sleep. If you want to try Eight Sleep, you can go to eightsleep.com/huberman to save up to $400 off their Sleep Fit Holiday Bundle, which includes their new Pod 3 cover. Eight Sleep currently ships in the USA, Canada, United Kingdom, select countries in the EU, and Australia. Again, that's eightsleep.com/huberman. And now for my discussion with Dr. Lex

3. 8:28 – 12:11

   Podcasting

   1. AHAndrew Huberman8:28

      Fridman. Welcome back. (laughs)

   2. LFLex Fridman8:30

      (laughs) It's good to be back in a bedroom. This feels like a porn set. I apologize to open that way.

   3. AHAndrew Huberman8:36

      Oh.

   4. LFLex Fridman8:36

      I've never been in a porn set, so I should admit this.

   5. AHAndrew Huberman8:39

      Our studio is being renovated, so-

   6. LFLex Fridman8:41

      (laughs)

   7. AHAndrew Huberman8:41

      ... here we are for the monumental recording of episode 100-

   8. LFLex Fridman8:46

      Episode 100.

   9. AHAndrew Huberman8:47

      ... of the Huberman Lab Podcast, which was inspired by the Lex Fridman Podcast. Some people already know this story, but I'll repeat it again for those that don't. There would not be a Huberman Lab Podcast were it not for Lex Fridman, because after recording, uh, as a guest on his podcast a few years ago, he made the suggestion that I start a podcast and he explained to me how it works and he said, "You should start a podcast, but just make sure that it's not you blabbing the whole time, Andrew," and I only sort of followed the advice.

   10. LFLex Fridman9:18

       Yeah. Well, you surprised, surprised me, surprised the world that you're able to talk for hours and cite some of the best science going on and be able to give people advice without many interruptions or edits or any of that. I mean, that takes an incredible amount of skill that you're probably born with and some of it is developed. I mean, the, the whole science community is, is proud of you, man. Stanford is proud of you. So yeah, it's, it's a beautiful thing. It was really surprising 'cause it's unclear how a scientist can do a great podcast that's not just shooting the shit about random stuff, but really is giving very structured, good advice that's, uh, boiling down the state-of-the-art science into something that's actually useful for people. So that, that was impressive. I was like, "Holy shit, he actually pulled this off." And doing it every week on a different topic. That, I mean, you know, um, n- usually positive, especially for people I love and support, but damn, I thought, "There's no way he's gonna be able to pull this off week after week." And he's been only getting better and better and better. I had a whole rant on a recent podcast, I forget with who, of how awesome you are with, uh, Rana el Kaliouby. She's a emotion recognition person, AI person, and then she didn't know, uh, who you were and I was like, "What the hell do you mean you don't..." And I just went on this whole rant of how awesome you are. It was, it was hilarious.

   11. AHAndrew Huberman10:43

       Oh, well, I'm-

   12. LFLex Fridman10:44

       (laughs)

   13. AHAndrew Huberman10:44

       ... very gratified to hear this. Um, uh, it's, uh, a little uncomfortable for me to hear, but listen, I'm, I'm just really happy if people are getting information that they like and can make actionable. And it was inspired by you. And look, right back at you, I, um, I've followed a number of your structural formats, uh, attire. I don't wear a tie. I'm constantly reminded about this by my father who says-

   14. LFLex Fridman11:09

       Yeah.

   15. AHAndrew Huberman11:09

       ... w- he saw my podcast and he was like, "Why don't you dress properly like your friend Lex?" He literally said that. Um, and, uh, it's a debate that goes back and forth. But nonetheless, um...

   16. LFLex Fridman11:19

       How does it feel? Episode 100. How does it feel?

   17. AHAndrew Huberman11:22

       You know, I think we-

   18. LFLex Fridman11:22

       Can you imagine you're s- you're here, you're here after so many episodes and done so much? I mean, the number of hours w- is just insane. The amount of passion, the amount of work you put into this. What's it feel like?

   19. AHAndrew Huberman11:34

       Um, it feels great. Um, and it feels very much like the, the horizon is still at the same distance in front of me, you know? Every episode I just try and g- get information there and the process, we talked about it on your podcast so we won't go into it, of, um, collecting information, distilling it down to some simple notes, walking around, listening to music, trying to, you know, um, figure out what the motifs are and then as, just like you, I don't use a teleprompter or anything like that. There's very minimal notes. So it feels great and I love it, and again, I'm just grateful to you, uh, for inspiring it and I just want to keep going and do more of it. And

4. 12:11 – 23:17

   Ukraine, Russia, War & Geopolitics

   1. AHAndrew Huberman12:11

      I should say, I am also relieved that we're sitting here because you recently went overseas to a very, um, intense war zone literally, the Ukraine, and, um, the entire time that you were there, uh, I was genuinely concerned. Um, you know, the world's a-...unpredictable place in general and, uh, we don't always get the only vote in what happens to us. So first of all, welcome back, safely, one piece, one alive piece, and, um, what was that like? I mean, at a, at a broad level, at a specific level, um, what drew you there? What surprised you? And, um, how do you think it changed you in, in coming back here?

   2. LFLex Fridman12:57

      I think there's a lot to say, but first, it is really good to be back. One of the things that when you go to a difficult part of the world or a part of the world that's going through something difficult, you really appreciate how great it is to be an American. Everything. The easy access to food, despite what people think, the, uh, stable, reliable rule of law. The lack of corruption in that you can trust that if you start a business or if you take on various pursuits in life that there's not going to be, at scale, manipulation of your efforts such that you can't succeed, so this kinda... You know, capitalism in its, in its, um... The ideal of capitalism is really still burning bright in this country and it really makes you appreciate those aspects. And also just the, um, ability to have a home for generations acro- across generations. So you can have a... Your grandfather live in, I don't know, Kentucky in a certain city and then, uh, his children live there and you live there and then you... It just continues on and on. That's the kind of thing you can have when you don't have war, 'cause war destroys entire communities. It, it destroys histories, generations, like life stories that stretch across the generations. So-

   3. AHAndrew Huberman14:21

      Yeah, yeah. We didn't even think about that until you said just now, but photographs-

   4. LFLex Fridman14:25

      Yeah.

   5. AHAndrew Huberman14:25

      ...hard drives get destroyed or just abandoned, right?

   6. LFLex Fridman14:28

      Yeah.

   7. AHAndrew Huberman14:28

      Libraries. Um, I mean, nowadays things exist in the cloud, but there are still a lot of-

   8. LFLex Fridman14:34

      Yeah.

   9. AHAndrew Huberman14:34

      ...material goods that have, you know, are irreplaceable, right?

   10. LFLex Fridman14:37

       Well, e- even, you know, in rural parts of the United States, they don't exist in the cloud, right? A lot of people still... Well, even in towns, they still love the physical photo album of your family. A lot of people still store their photographs of families in the sto- the, uh, VHS tapes and all that kind of stuff, yeah. But I think there's so many things I've learned and really felt the lessons, one of which is nobody gives a damn when your photos are gone and all that kind of stuff, your house is gone. The thing time and time again I saw with the people that lost everything is how happy they are for the people they love. The, the friends, the family that are still alive. That's the only thing they talk about. That, um... In fact, they don't mention actually with much dramatic, uh, sort of vigor about the trauma of losing your home. They're just non-stop saying how lucky they are that person X, person Y is still here. And that makes you realize that when you lose everything, it still... It makes you realize what really matters, which is the people in your life. And a lot of people kind of realize that later in life when you're facing mortality, wh- when you're facing your death or f- you know, you get a cancer diagnosis, that kind of stuff. I think people here in America, in California was with the fires, you, uh, you can still lose your home and you realize like, nah, it doesn't really matter. It's a pain in the ass, but what matters is still, uh, the, the family, the people, and so on. I, I think the most intense thing... I talked to several hundred people, some of which is recorded. I've really been struggling to put that out 'cause I have to edit it myself and so it's... You're talking about 30, 40 hours of footage and it-

   11. AHAndrew Huberman16:30

       Is emotionally struggling-

   12. LFLex Fridman16:32

       Yeah.

   13. AHAndrew Huberman16:32

       ...is it emotional struggle?

   14. LFLex Fridman16:33

       It's extremely difficult. So I talked to a lot of politicians, the number two in the country, number three. I'll be back there to talk to the president, to do a three-hour conversation. Those are easy to edit, you know. They're, um, they're really heartfelt and thoughtful folks from different perspectives on the geopolitics of the war. But the ones that're really hard to edit is like grandmas that are like in the middle of nowhere. They lost everything. They still have hope. They still have love. And some of them have, some of them, many of them unfortunately, have now hate in their heart. So in February when, uh, Russia invaded Ukraine, this is the thing I realized about war. One of the most painful one lessons is that war creates generational hate. It, you know, we sometimes think about war as a thing that kills people, kills civilians, kills soldiers, takes away lives, injures people. But we don't directly think about the, uh, the secondary and tertiary effects of that which lasts decades, which is anyone who's lost a father or a mother or a daughter or a son, they now hate the... Not just the individual soldiers or the leaders that invaded their country, but the entirety of the people. So it's not that they hate, uh, Vladimir Putin or hate the Russian military, they hate Russian people. So that tears the fabric of a thing that, for me, you know, my, my... Half my family's from Ukraine, half my family is from Russia, but there's a... I remember (laughs) the pain, the triumph of World War II still resonates through my entire family tree, and so you remember when the Russians and Ukrainians fought together against this Nazi invasion. You, you remember a lot of that-And now to see the fabric of this, uh, people's torn apart completely with hate is very, really, really difficult for me just to realize that things will just never be the same on this particular cultural historical aspect. But also there's so many painful ways in which things will never be the same, which is we've seen that it's possible to have a major hot war in the 21st century. I think a lot of people are watching this. China is watching this, India is watching this, United States is watching this and thinking, "We can actually have a large-scale war." And I think the lessons learned from that might be the kind that lead to a major World War III in the 21st century. So like one of the things I realized watching the whole scene is that we don't know shit about what's going to happen in the 21st century and it might... We kind of have this intuition like, surely there's not going to be another war.

   15. AHAndrew Huberman19:33

       Like, we'll just coast.

   16. LFLex Fridman19:34

       Yeah.

   17. AHAndrew Huberman19:35

       Yeah.

   18. LFLex Fridman19:35

       Yeah, pandemic, yeah.

   19. AHAndrew Huberman19:38

       Back to normal.

   20. LFLex Fridman19:38

       Back to normal.

   21. AHAndrew Huberman19:39

       Whatever that is.

   22. LFLex Fridman19:40

       But you have to remember, at the end of World War I, you know, as, uh, Woodrow Wilson called it, uh, the war to end all wars, nobody in a... Ironically, in a dark way, it was also the, the roaring '20s when people believed this, there will never be another world war. And 20 years after that, the, the rise of Nazi Germany, uh, the, a charismatic leader that captivated the minds of millions and built up a military that can take on the, the whole world. And so it makes you realize that this is still possible. This is still possible. And then the, the tension you, you see the, this, uh, the media machine, the propaganda machine that I've gotten to see every aspect of, it's still fueling that division between America and China, between Russia and India, and then Africa has a complicated thing that's trying to figure out who are they with, who are they against, and just this tension is building and building. And like it makes you realize, like, we might... The thing that might shake human civilization may not be so far off. That, that's a realization you get to really feel. Um, I mean, there's l- all kinds of other lessons and one of which is propaganda, is I got to, um, I get a lot of letters, emails, and, uh, some of them are full of really intense language, full of hate from every side-

   23. AHAndrew Huberman21:13

       Toward...

   24. LFLex Fridman21:14

       ... me. Uh, or t- well, the hate is towards me as representing side X, and X stands as a variable for every side. So either I'm a Zelensky show or I'm a Putin show or I'm a NATO show or I'm an a- America, uh, America show, Am- American empire show, or I'm a D- uh, Democrat or a Republican 'cause it's already been, in this country, politicized. I think there's a sense of Ukraine is this place that's full of corruption. Why are we sending money there? I think, so that's kind of the messaging on the, on the Republican side. On the Democratic side... I, I, I'm not even keeping, uh, track of the actual messaging and the conspiracy theories and, and the narratives, but they are... The tension is there and I get to feel it directly. And what you get to really experience is there's a large number of narratives that all are extremely confident in themselves that they know the truth. People are convinced, first of all, that they're not being lied to. People in Russia think there's no propaganda. They think that, "Yes, yes, there's like state-sponsored propaganda, but we're all smart enough to ignore the, the, um, the sort of lame propaganda that's everywhere." They know that, "We can think on our own. We kn- we know the truth." And everybody kind of speaks in this way. Everybody in the United States says, "Well, yes, there's mainstream media. They're full of messaging and propaganda, but we, we're smart. We can think on our own. Of course, we see through that." Ev- everybody says this and then the conclusion of their thought is often hatred towards some group.

   25. AHAndrew Huberman22:59

       Mm-hmm.

   26. LFLex Fridman22:59

       Whatever that group is. And the more you've lost, the more intense the, the, the feeling of hatred. It's a really t- difficult, um, field to walk through calmly and with an open mind and, and try to understand what's really going on.

   27. AHAndrew Huberman23:16

       It's

5. 23:17 – 26:23

   Conflict & Generalized Hate

   1. AHAndrew Huberman23:17

      a, it's super intense. That's the only words that come to mind, um, as I hear this. You mentioned something that it seems that hate generalizes, you know, it's against an entire group or an entire country. Uh, why do you think it is that hate generalizes and that love may or may not generalize? Um...

   2. LFLex Fridman23:38

      I, I've had... So one of the, as you can imagine, (laughs) the kind of question I asked is, "Do you have love or hate in your heart?" It's a question I ask almost everybody, and then I would dig into this exact question that you're asking. I think w- some of the most beautiful things I've heard, which is people that are full of hate are a- able to self-introspect about it. They, they know they shouldn't feel it but they can't help it. It's not... They know that ultimately the thing that helps them and helps everyone is to feel love for fellow man, but they're, they've, they can't help it. They know... It's like a drug. They say, like, hate, um, escalates. Uh, it's like a vicious spiral. You just can't help it. And the question I also asked is, "Do you think you'll ever be able to forgive Russia?" And after much thought, almost-L- it's, uh, it's split, but most people will say, "No. I will never be able to forgive."

   3. AHAndrew Huberman24:46

      And because of the generalization you talked about earlier, that could even include all Ru-

   4. LFLex Fridman24:50

      All Russians.

   5. AHAndrew Huberman24:50

      ... in that statement they mean all Russians.

   6. LFLex Fridman24:52

      Because, um, because if you do nothing that's as bad or worse than, uh, than, than being part of the army that invades. So the, the people there just sitting there, the good Germans, the people that are just quietly going on with their lives, you're just as bad, if not worse, is their perspective.

   7. AHAndrew Huberman25:19

      Earlier you said that, uh, going over to the Ukrainians r- now, um, allowed you to realize just so many of the positives of being here in the United States. Um, I have a good friend, we both know him, I won't name him by name, but we communicated, the three of us, from tier one special operations. He spent years doing deployments, really, uh, amazing individual. And I remember when the pandemic hit he said on a text thread, "You know, Americans aren't used to the government interfering with their plans." You know, around the world many people are familiar with governments dramatically interfering with their plans, sometimes what, even in a seemingly random way. Here, we were not braced for that. There are, I mean, they're there, we get speeding tickets and there's uh, (laughs) you know, lines to vote and things like that. But uh, I think the pandemic was one of the first times, at least in my life that I can remember, where it really seemed like the government was impeding what people naturally wanted to do. And that was a shock for people here. And um, I have a, um, what might seem like

6. 26:23 – 37:28

   Typical Day in Ukraine; American Military & Information Wars

   1. AHAndrew Huberman26:23

      a somewhat mundane question but it's something that I saw on social media a lot of people were asking me to ask you and, um, and I was curious about too. Uh, what was a typical day like over there? Were you sleeping in a bed? Were you sleeping on the ground?

   2. LFLex Fridman26:37

      (laughs)

   3. AHAndrew Huberman26:38

      Everyone seems to want to know what were you eating? Were you eating once a day? Were you eating your steak or were you, were you in fairly deprived conditions over there? I saw a couple, um, photos that you posted with, um, out of doors, in front of rubble, um, pith helmet on in one case, you know, uh, what w- what was a typical day like over there?

   4. LFLex Fridman27:00

      So there's, there's two modes. One of them I spent a lot of time in Kiev, which is much safer than, uh, it may be obvious to state, but for people who don't know, it's in the middle of the country and it's much safer than the actual front that the, where the battle is happening. So the much, much safer than Kiev even is Lviv which is the western part of the country. So the times I spent in Kiev were fundamentally different than the time I spent at the front. And I went to the Kherson region which is where a lot of really heated battle was happening. There's several areas. So there's Kharkiv, it's in the northeast of the country, and then there's Donbas region which is east of the country, and then there's Kherson region which, uh, by the way I'm not good at geography so, uh, is the southeast of the country and that's where, at least when I was there, was a lot of really heated fighting happening. So when I was in the Kherson region there's, uh, you know, it's what you would imagine. The place, I stayed at a hotel where all the lights have to st- stay off, so the entire town, all the lights are off. You have to kind of navigate through the darkness and use your phone to shine and so on.

   5. AHAndrew Huberman28:16

      This is terrible for the circadian system.

   6. LFLex Fridman28:18

      Yeah. That's exactly... I was, this, how can I do this? Where's my LMNT and Athletic Greens? How can I function? No, uh, (laughs) so there's, uh, I think it was balanced by the deep appreciation of being alive. (laughs)

   7. AHAndrew Huberman28:33

      Right, no, I, I mean, this is the reason I asked-

   8. LFLex Fridman28:35

      Stress-wise.

   9. AHAndrew Huberman28:35

      This is the reason I ask is, you know, we, we get used to all these creature comforts-

   10. LFLex Fridman28:39

       Yes.

   11. AHAndrew Huberman28:40

       ... and, um, we don't need them but we often come to depend on them in a way that makes us feel like we need them.

   12. LFLex Fridman28:47

       Yeah, but very quickly, there's something about the intensity of life that you see in people's eyes c- 'cause they've been living through war, that makes you forget all those creature comforts. And it's a, it was actually, um, you know, I'm somebody who hates traveling and so on. I love the creature, uh, habits. I love, I love, uh, the comfort of the ritual, right? But all of that was forgotten very quickly. Just the, the intensity of feeling, the intensity of love that people have for each other. That was, that was obvious. In terms of food, so there's a curfew. Uh, so depends on what part of the country but usually you basically have to scammer home at like 9:00 PM. So the hard curfew in a lot of places is 11:00 PM at night, but by then you, like, you have to be home. So, uh, in some places it's 10:00. So you, y- at 9:00 PM you start, uh, going home which for me was, was kind of wonderful also because I get to spend, um, I get to be, uh, forced to spend time alone and think for many hours in, uh, wherever I'm staying which, which is really nice and every, there's a calmness and a quietness to the whole thing. In terms of food, once a day, uh, just, uh, the food is incredibly cheap and incredibly delicious. People are still, one of the things they can still take pride in is, um, making the best possible food they can. So meat, but they do admire American meat so the meat is not as great as it could be in that country. But I ate borscht every day, you know, all that kind of stuff. Mostly meat. So spend the entire day, wake up in the morning with coffee, spend the entire day talking to people which for, for me is very difficult-... because of the intensity of the stories, one after the other after the other. We just talked to regular people, talked to soldiers, talked to politicians, um, all kinds of soldiers. I talked to people there who are doing rescue missions, so Americans. I hu- I hu- hung out with, uh, Tim Kennedy. Oh, yeah. Um- The great Tim Kennedy. (laughs) The great Tim Kennedy- Yeah. ... who, uh, uh, also w- him and many others revealed to me one of the many reasons I'm proud to be an American is how, um, tr- trained and skilled and, uh, effective American soldiers are. I

   13. AHAndrew Huberman31:19

       Yeah. I guess for pe- for listeners of this podcast, maybe we should familiarize them with who Tim Kennedy is-

   14. LFLex Fridman31:23

       Tim Kennedy.

   15. AHAndrew Huberman31:23

       ... 'cause I realize that a number of them will know, but, um-

   16. LFLex Fridman31:25

       How do you do that? How, how do you try to summarize a man?

   17. AHAndrew Huberman31:28

       Y- uh, right. In, in, uh, uh, uh, let's see, we can be accurate but not exhaustive, as-

   18. LFLex Fridman31:33

       Sure.

   19. AHAndrew Huberman31:33

       ... as any good, uh, uh, good data are accurate but not exhaustive. Um, very skilled and accomplished MMA fighter, very skilled and accomplished spec- former special operations member, um, American patriot, and, uh, podcaster too, right? Does he have his own podcast?

   20. LFLex Fridman31:49

       Maybe.

   21. AHAndrew Huberman31:50

       Okay.

   22. LFLex Fridman31:50

       Maybe.

   23. AHAndrew Huberman31:51

       We know Andy Stumpf has his own podcast.

   24. LFLex Fridman31:53

       Yes.

   25. AHAndrew Huberman31:53

       Yeah.

   26. LFLex Fridman31:53

       Which is an amazing podcast.

   27. AHAndrew Huberman31:54

       Yeah.

   28. LFLex Fridman31:54

       Yeah. Andy's great.

   29. AHAndrew Huberman31:55

       Yeah. Um, Clearing Hot Podcast with Andy Stumpf is an amazing podcast.

   30. LFLex Fridman31:58

       But also Tim Kennedy is like, uh, the embodiment of America and to the, to the most beautiful and the most ridiculous degree. So he's like, um, would you imagine, uh, what is it, Team America? That (laughs) like, um, I just imagine him like shirtless on a tank rolling into enemy territory just screaming at the top of his lungs. That's just his personality. He-
7. 37:28 – 38:42

   AG1 (Athletic Greens)

   1. AHAndrew Huberman37:28

      take a quick break and acknowledge one of our sponsors, Athletic Greens. Athletic Greens, now called AG1, is a vitamin mineral probiotic drink that covers all of your foundational nutritional needs. I've been taking Athletic Greens since 2012 so I'm delighted that they're sponsoring the podcast. The reason I started taking Athletic Greens and the reason I still take Athletic Greens once or usually twice a day is that it gets me the probiotics that I need for gut health. Our gut is very important, it's populated by gut microbiota that communicate with the brain, the immune system, and basically all the biological systems of our body to strongly impact our immediate and long-term health. And those probiotics in Athletic Greens are optimal and vital for microbiotic health. In addition, Athletic Greens contains a number of adaptogens, vitamins and minerals that make sure that all of my foundational nutritional needs are met and it tastes great. If you'd like to try Athletic Greens you can go to athleticgreens.com/huberman and they'll give you five free travel packs that make it really easy to mix up Athletic Greens while you're on the road, in the car, on the plane et cetera. And they'll give you a year supply of vitamin D3K2. Again, that's athleticgreens.com/huberman to get the five free travel packs and the year supply of vitamin D3K2.

8. 38:42 – 46:44

   Deliberate Cold Exposure & Sauna; Fertility

   1. AHAndrew Huberman38:42

      I know I speak for many people when I say that we are very happy that you're back. We know that it's not gonna be the first and last trip, that there will be others, um, and that you'll be going to Russia as well and presumably other places as well, um, in order to explore. And I have to say as a podcaster and as your friend, um, I was really inspired that, at your sense of adventure, um, and your sense of not just adventure but thoughtful, respectful adventure. You understood what you were doing. You weren't just going there to get some wartime footage or something. This wasn't a kick or a thrill, this was really serious and remains serious. Um, so thank you for doing it and, um, please, uh, next time you go bring Tim Kennedy, uh, a- again (laughs) .

   2. LFLex Fridman39:26

      I feel like, I feel like Tim Kennedy gets into, will, will take... 'Cause he really loves going to the most dangerous places-

   3. AHAndrew Huberman39:32

      Mm-hmm.

   4. LFLex Fridman39:32

      ... and helping people so I think he'll get me into more trouble than it's worth. And I should mention that I, I mean, there's many reasons I went but it's definitely not something I take lightly or want to do again (laughs) .

   5. AHAndrew Huberman39:45

      Right.

   6. LFLex Fridman39:45

      So I'm doing things that I don't want to do, I just feel like I have to.

   7. AHAndrew Huberman39:49

      You're compelled.

   8. LFLex Fridman39:50

      So I don't think there's... Now I'll definitely talk about it as we all should, there's different areas of the world that are seeing a lot of suffering. Yemen. Th- th- there's so many atrocities going on in the world today, but this one is just, uh, personal to me so I want to... I feel like I'm qualified just because of the language. So most of the talking, by the way, I've been, I was doing it, it was in Russian. And so because of the language, because of the, my history I felt like I had to do this particular thing. I think it's in many ways stupid and dangerous and that was made clear to me but I do many things of this nature because the heart says, pulls, um, pulls towards that. But also there's a, there's a freedom to not... You know, I'm afraid of death but I think there's a freedom to, uh, it's almost like okay, if I die I want to take full advantage of not having a family currently. I feel like when you have a family you, there's a responsibility for others so you immediately become more conservative and careful. I feel like I, I want to take full advantage of this particular moment in my life when you can be a little bit more accepting of risk.

   9. AHAndrew Huberman41:05

      Oh.

   10. LFLex Fridman41:05

       And so...

   11. AHAndrew Huberman41:06

       Well you should definitely reproduce at some point. Um, maybe ne- before next time you should just freeze some sperm.

   12. LFLex Fridman41:12

       I, um-

   13. AHAndrew Huberman41:13

       Really, I mean-

   14. LFLex Fridman41:14

       Is that, is that what you do with the ice baths? Is that how that works?

   15. AHAndrew Huberman41:16

       You know, it's interesting. Here's a, there's always an opportunity (laughs) to do some science protocols. You know th- there are products on the internet and there are actually a few decent manuscripts looking at how cold exposure can increase testosterone levels. But it doesn't happen by d- the cold directly. A good scientist says the authors of those papers were and are, realize that it's the vasoconstriction and then the, um, vasodilation, you know, as it, as people warm up again there's increased blood flow to the testicles. And in women it seems there's probably increased blood flow to the reproductive organs as well after people warm back up. So that seems to cause some sort of hyper-nourishment of the, of the various cells, the, um, sertoli and leydig cells of the testes that lead to increased output of testosterone and in women, um, testosterone as well. So, uh, the cold exposure in any case, um, is obviously a... Do, do you do the ice bath? Are you into that?

   16. LFLex Fridman42:11

       I have not done any.

   17. AHAndrew Huberman42:12

       As a Russian you probably consider that a w- a hot tub.

   18. LFLex Fridman42:15

       Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's, it's a nice thing to, uh, have fun with every once in a while, uh, to warm up. No, I haven't done it. I've been kind of waiting to maybe do it together with you at some point.

   19. AHAndrew Huberman42:26

       Great, well-

   20. LFLex Fridman42:26

       'Cause I have a guide.

   21. AHAndrew Huberman42:28

       ... we have one here. No, we have one here.

   22. LFLex Fridman42:28

       (laughs) .

   23. AHAndrew Huberman42:29

       Uh, it'll be straightforward for you.

   24. LFLex Fridman42:30

       Yeah.

   25. AHAndrew Huberman42:30

       I always say that the adrenaline comes in waves and so if you just think about it, walls, like you're going through a number of walls of adrenaline as opposed to going for time, becomes rather trivial. With your jiu-jitsu background and whatnot you'll immediately recognize the physiological sensation even though it, it's cold specifically it's the adrenaline that makes you want to hop out of the thing.

   26. LFLex Fridman42:47

       And, uh, you've seen Joe's, uh, so Joe set up a really nice-

   27. AHAndrew Huberman42:50

       Mm-hmm.

   28. LFLex Fridman42:51

       ... uh, man cave. Or it's, it's not even a cave 'cause it's so big. It's like a, a network of man caves. But it has a ice bath and a sauna-... next to each other, so.

   29. AHAndrew Huberman43:03

       Well, we have one of those here, ice bath and sauna, so we'll have to get you in it when, uh... one of these days.

   30. LFLex Fridman43:08

       Sounds like trouble.
9. 46:44 – 53:33

   Ukraine: Science, Infrastructure & Military; Zelensky

   1. AHAndrew Huberman46:44

      so moving on to science, but still with our minds in the Ukraine. Did you encounter any scientists or see any universities or, you know, as we know in this country and in Europe and in elsewhere, um, you know, science takes infrastructure. You need buildings, you need laboratories, you need robots, you need a lot of equipment, and you need, um, minus 80 freezers and you need incubators and you need money and you need technicians, and typically it's been the wealthier countries that have been able to do more research for sake of research and development of, of, and productization. Certainly, the Ukraine had some marvelous universities and, uh, marvelous scientists. Um, what's going on with science and science, oh, scientists over there and, um, and gosh, can we even calculate the loss of discovery that is occurring as a consequence of this conflict?

   2. LFLex Fridman47:40

      So science goes on. The, before the war, Ukraine had a very vibrant tech sector that which means engineering and all that kind of stuff. Um, Kiev has a lot of excellent universities and they still go on. The th- the biggest hit, I would say, is not the infrastructure or the science but the fact, because of the high morale, everybody is joining the military. So everybody's going to the front to fight, including, you know, you, Andrew Huberman, would be fighting, and not because you have to but because you want to. And everybody you know would be really proud that you're fighting. Even though everyone tries to convince, you know, "Andrew Huberman, you have much better ways to contribute. Uh, there's deep honor in fighting for your country, yes, but there're better ways to contribute to your country than just picking up a gun that you're not that trained with and going to the front." Still they do it. Uh, scientists, engineers, CEOs, professors, students-

   3. AHAndrew Huberman48:43

      Men and women.

   4. LFLex Fridman48:44

      ... actors, men and women. Uh, obviously primarily men, but men and women. Like, uh, much more than you would see in, in other militaries. Women are... Everybody, everybody wants to fight. Everybody's proud of fighting. There's no discussion of, um, of kind of pacifism. Should we be fighting? Is this right? Is this... You know. It's everybody's really proud of fighting. So that, that's, uh...... so there's this kind of black hole that pulls everything, all the resource in- in- into the war effort, that's not just financial but also, uh, psychological. So i- it's like, um, if you're a scientist, it feels like, well... It feels like, um, um, almost like you're dishonoring humanity by continuing to do things you were doing before. There's a lot of people that converted to being soldiers. They literally watch a YouTube video, uh, of how to shoot a particular gun, how to arm a drone with a grenade. You know, if you're a tech person, you know how to work with drones so you're gonna use that, use whatever skills you got, figure out whatever skills you got and how to use them, uh, to help the effort on the front. And so, that's a big hit. But that said, that, you know, I've talked to a lot of folks in Kiev, uh, faculty, primarily in the tech economics space, so I didn't get a chance to interact with folks who are on the biology, chemistry, um, neuroscience side of things, but that- that- that still goes on. So one of the really impressive things about Ukraine is that they're able to maintain infrastructure, like road, food supply, all that kinda stuff, education, while the war is going on, especially in Kiev. The war started where nobody knew whether Kiev was gonna be taken by the Russian forces. It was surrounded. And, um, a lot of experts from outside were convinced that Russia would take Kiev, and- and they didn't. And one- one of the really impressive things as a leader, one of the things I really experienced is that a lot of people criticized Zelensky before the war. He only had about, like, 30% approval rate. A lot of people didn't like Zelensky. But one of the great things he did as a leader, which I'm not sure many leaders would be able to do, is when Kiev was clearly being invaded he chose to stay. He'd stay in the capital. Everybody. All the, um, the American military, the intelligence agencies, NATO, his own staff, advisors, all told him to flee and he stayed. And so that's... I think that was his beacon, a symbol for the rest, for the universities, for science, for- for the infrastructure that, "We're staying too." And, um, that kept the whole thing going. There's an interesting social experiment that happened, I think for folks who are interested in sort of gun control in this country in particular, is, uh, one of the decisions they made early on is to give guns to everybody. Uh, semi-automatics.

   5. AHAndrew Huberman51:54

      Early on in the war, or early-

   6. LFLex Fridman51:55

      In- early on in the war, yeah.

   7. AHAndrew Huberman51:56

      Okay. Yeah.

   8. LFLex Fridman51:57

      So everybody got a gun. Uh, they also released a bunch of prisoners from- from prison because th- there was no staff to- to- to con- to, uh, um, to keep the prisons running. And so there's a very interesting psychological experiment of, like, how is this gonna go? Everybody has a gun. Are they gonna start robbing places? Are they going to start taking advantage of a chaotic situation? And what happened is that crime went to zero. So it turned out that this, as an experiment, worked wonderfully.

   9. AHAndrew Huberman52:30

      That's a case where love generalized.

   10. LFLex Fridman52:33

       Yes.

   11. AHAndrew Huberman52:33

       Or at least hate did not. We don't know if it's love or it's sort of lack of initiative for self... You know, common culture directed hate.

   12. LFLex Fridman52:40

       Yeah. I don't... It- right. It's- I- I- I think it gets very correct to say that it wasn't hate that was unifying people. It was love of country, love of community. It's the- probably the same thing that will happen to humans when, like, aliens invade, is we're all... It's, uh, it's, uh, the common effort. Everybody puts everything else, uh, to the side. Plus just the- the sheer amount of guns, similar to, like, Texas. You realize, like, well, y- there's going to be a self-correcting mechanism very quickly, because the rule of law was also put aside, right? Like, um, basically the police force lost a lot of power because everybody else has guns and they're kinda taking the law into their own hands and that system, at least in this particular case, in this particular moment in human history, worked. It's an interesting lesson, you know?

   13. AHAndrew Huberman53:31

       Mm-hmm. I'd- uh,

10. 53:33 – 57:40

    Firearms; Violence & Sensitization

    1. AHAndrew Huberman53:33

       it is. Uh, I had an interesting contrast that I'll share with you. I- 'cause you mentioned Texas. So not so long ago I was in Austin, I often visit you or others in Austin as you know, and, um, m- many doors that I walked past, including a school, said, "No firearms past this point." You know, it was a sticker on the door. Uh, you see this on hospitals sometimes, I saw this at Baylor College of Medicine, et cetera. Um, f- relatively common to see in Texas, um, not so common in California. Um, and then I flew to the San Francisco Bay area, was walking by an elementary school in my old neighborhood and saw a similar sticker and looked at it and it said, "No peanuts or other allergy containing foods past this point." On the door of this elementary school. So quite a different contrast, like, you know, guns and peanuts. Um, now, peanut allergies obviously are very serious for some people, although there's great research out of Stanford showing that early exposure to peanuts, um, can prevent the allergies. It's, uh... But don't start rubbing yourself in peanut butter, folks, if you have a peanut allergy. That's not the best way to deal with it. In any case, the contrast of what's dangerous, the contrast of, um, you know, the familiarity with guns versus no familiarity, you know. In Israel and elsewhere you're gonna see machine guns in the airport. In Germany, Frankfurt, you see machine guns in the airport. Not so common in the United States. So again, there's- I feel like there's this aperture of vision, there's this aperture of pleasures and cre- versus creature comforts and lack of, uh, creature comforts, and then there's this aperture of- of danger, right? Um, people who are familiar with guns, you know, are familiar with people coming in and setting their firearm on the table and eating- eating dinner, you know? But in- if you're not...... accustomed to that, it's jarring, right?

    2. LFLex Fridman55:17

       I sh- I should mention, the people know this throughout human history but the human ability to, um, get, um, assimilated? No, uh, get used to violence is incredible. So like, uh, you could be living in a peaceful time like, like we're here now and there would be one explosion, it's like a 9/11 type of situation. That'd be a huge shock. It'd be terrifying. Everybody freaks out. The second one is a huge drop off in how freaked out you get, and with- w- in a matter of days, sometimes hours it becomes the nor- the normal. I've talked to so many people in, uh, Kharkiv, which is one of the towns that's seen a lot of heated battle. You ask them, "Is it safe there?" I- in fact when I went to the, uh ... Closer and closer to the war zone you ask people, "Is it safe?" And their answer is usually, "Yeah, it's pretty safe."

    3. AHAndrew Huberman56:12

       It's all signal to noise.

    4. LFLex Fridman56:14

       Y- yeah. It, like, nobody has told me, except like western reporters sitting in the west side of Ukraine, "It's really dangerous here." Everyone's like, "Yeah. We're, you know, it's good." Like, uh, my uncle just died yesterday. Like he was shot. Um, but it's pretty, you know, it's pretty good. Like the, the farm's still running. Like th- they, um ... How do I put it? It, it, they focus on the positive, that's one, but it's m- there's a deeper truth there which is you just get used to difficult situations and the stuff they make you happy and the stuff they make you upset is relative to that new normal that you establish.

    5. AHAndrew Huberman56:52

       Mm-hmm. Well I grew up in California and there were a lot of earthquakes. I remember the '89 quake, I remember the Embarcadero freeway c- pancaking on top of people and cars. I remember, um, I moved to Southern California and there was a Northridge quake. Wherever I move there seem to be earthquakes. I never worry about earthquakes, ever. I just don't. And in fact, I don't like the destruction they cause but every once in a while an earthquake will roll through and it's kind of exciting. It sounds like a train coming through. It's like wow, like the earth is moving, you know? Again, I don't want anyone to get harmed but I en- I enjoy a good rumble coming through, nonetheless.

    6. LFLex Fridman57:21

       (laughs) .

    7. AHAndrew Huberman57:21

       Um, uh, it's signal to noise.

    8. LFLex Fridman57:23

       Yeah.

    9. AHAndrew Huberman57:23

       But if I saw a tornado? I'd freak out. I mean, people from the Midwest are probably comfortable with, you know, Dan Gable, the great wrestler from the Midwest that you know and I've never met but I have great respect for. He's probably, you know, sees, sees a tornado and is like, "Ah, yeah. Maybe, yeah." You know? So, so I think signal to noise is, is real. Um

11. 57:40 – 1:05:51

    MIT & Artificial Intelligence (AI), University Teaching & Pandemic

    1. AHAndrew Huberman57:40

       ... Before I neglect, although I won't forget. Um, speaking of signal to noise and environment, you are returning to or have gone back to one of your original, um, natural habitats which is the Massachusetts Institu-

    2. LFLex Fridman57:56

       (laughs) .

    3. AHAndrew Huberman57:56

       ... tude of Technology. Which is-

    4. LFLex Fridman57:58

       (laughs) . Natural habitat, yeah.

    5. AHAndrew Huberman57:59

       It's, it's actually difficult to pronounce in full. MIT, right? So you've been, um, spending some time there teaching, um, and doing other things. Tell us what you're up to with MIT recently?

    6. LFLex Fridman58:08

       Well it's, I'm, I'm really glad that you, being on the, on the west coast know the difference between like Boston and New York. I feel like a lot of people think-

    7. AHAndrew Huberman58:15

       (laughs) . We l- (laughs) l-

    8. LFLex Fridman58:15

       It's like the east coast.

    9. AHAndrew Huberman58:17

       No. (laughs) It's very different.

    10. LFLex Fridman58:18

        It's all, it's all co-

    11. AHAndrew Huberman58:18

        Especially to Bo- (laughs) Bostonians and New Yorkers.

    12. LFLex Fridman58:20

        They get very aggressive at each other.

    13. AHAndrew Huberman58:22

        Oh my goodness.

    14. LFLex Fridman58:22

        Yeah. I, I l- I love it. I get, I gave, um, uh, lectures there in front of an in person crowd for-

    15. AHAndrew Huberman58:29

        What were you talking about?

    16. LFLex Fridman58:30

        ... for the AI.

    17. AHAndrew Huberman58:31

        Mm-hmm.

    18. LFLex Fridman58:31

        So different aspects of AI.

    19. AHAndrew Huberman58:32

        Mm-hmm.

    20. LFLex Fridman58:33

        And, uh, r- you know, robotics, machine learning, machine learning. So for people who know the artificial intelligence field, they usually don't use the term AI and people from outside use AIs. The, the biggest breakthroughs in the machine learning field with some discussion of robotics, uh, and so on. Yeah, it was in person. It was, it was wonderful. I, I'm a sucker for that. I really avoided teaching or any kind of interaction during COVID because, uh, people put a lot of emphasis on but also got comfortable with remote teaching and I think nobody enjoyed it. Uh, except sort of there's a notion that it's much easier to do.

    21. AHAndrew Huberman59:14

        Mm-hmm.

    22. LFLex Fridman59:14

        Because you don't have to, you know, you don't have to travel, you don't have to ... You can do it i- in your pajamas kind of thing. But when you actually get to do it, you don't get s- the same kind of joy that you do when you're teaching. As a student you don't get the same kind of joy of learning, it's not as effective and all that kind of stuff. So to be in person together with people, to see their eyes, to get their excitement, to get the questions and all the interactions, yeah, it was awesome. And it's, I'm still, um, uh, a sucker and a believer in the, the ideal of MIT, of the university. I think it's an incredible place. There's something in the air, uh, still. But it really hit, uh, the pandemic hit universities h- hard because, and I can say this, this is not you saying it, this is me saying it, uh, that administrations, as in all cases when people criticize institutions, the pandemic has given more power to the administration and taken away power from the faculty and the students. And that's a, for everybody involved, including the administration, that's a concern because the university is about the teachers and the students. That should be primary. And whenever you have a pandemic there's an opportunity to increase the amount of rules. Like one of the things that really bothered me, and I'll scream from the top of the, um, uh, MIT dome, uh, about this is they've instituted a new, uh, Tim Ticket system which is if you're a visitor to the campus at MIT you have to register. You have to first of all show that you're vaccinated but more importantly there's a process to visiting. You, you need to get permission to visit. One of the reasons I loved MIT, unlike some other institutions, MIT just leaves the door open to anyone.

    23. AHAndrew Huberman1:00:58

        Mm-hmm.

    24. LFLex Fridman1:00:59

        In classrooms you can roll in. The ridiculous characters, the students that are kinda like usually doing business stuff or economics can roll into a physics c- class and just ... You know, you're kind of not allowed but it's a gray area so you, th- you, you let that happen and that creates a flourishing of the community that was beautiful. And I think adding extra rules-... um, puts a squeeze on and limits some of the- the flourishing. Um, and I hope some of that dissipates over time as we kind of let go of, um, the- the risk aversion that was created by the pandemic. As we kind of enter the new, uh, th- the normal, return back, some of that flourishing can happen. But when you're actually in there with the students, yeah, it was just magic. I love it. I love it.

    25. AHAndrew Huberman1:01:46

        Well, some of your earliest videos on your YouTube channel were- were of you in the classroom, right?

    26. LFLex Fridman1:01:50

        Yeah.

    27. AHAndrew Huberman1:01:50

        That's how this all started.

    28. LFLex Fridman1:01:51

        Yeah. Yeah, that's how YouTube... Like, putting stuff on, uh, on YouTube was- was terrifying, right? Like-

    29. AHAndrew Huberman1:01:58

        Well, especially at the time when you did it. Again, you're a- a pioneer in that sense. Um, you did that, Jordan Peterson did that. Putting up lectures, um, is, uh, yeah, I would, uh, h- I teach still. Ev- every winter I teach. I don't direct a course and I'll- I'll be doing even more teaching going forward. But, um, the idea of those videos being on the web is- is, uh, yeah, that spikes my cortisol a little bit.

    30. LFLex Fridman1:02:23

        Yeah, it's terrifying 'cause you get to... And everybody has a different experience. Like, for me, being a junior, uh, r- research scientist, the- the kind of natural concern is like, who am I? And it... When I was, uh, giving this lecture, it was like, "I don't deserve any of this." Like, why-
12. 1:05:51 – 1:13:05

    Publications & Peer Review, Research, Social Media

    1. AHAndrew Huberman1:05:51

       teacher.

    2. LFLex Fridman1:05:52

       Yeah, there's something about... So I'm also doing, um, like, uh, the, I stayed up pretty late last night, uh, working for a deadline on- on- on a paper. One of the things that I hope to do for f- hopefully the rest of my life is- is to continue publishing and I think it's really important to do that even if, um, you continue the podcast, because you want to be fr- just on your own intellectual and scientific journey as you do podcasting. Because, um, at least for me, and especially on the engineering side, 'cause I wanna build stuff, and I think that keeps your ego in check, keeps you humble, because I think if you talk too much on the microphone you start getting, um... You might lose track of, um, you know, the grounding that comes from engineering and from science and the scientific process and the criticisms that you get. All that kind of stuff.

    3. AHAndrew Huberman1:06:47

       And how slow and iterative it is. We have two papers right now that are in the revision stage and it's been a very long road. And I was asked this recently because I met with my chairman and he said, "Do you want to continue to run a lab or are you just gonna go full time on the podcast?" And Stanford has been very supportive I must say, as I know MIT has been of y- of you. Um, and I said, "Oh, I absolutely want to continue to be involved in research and do research." Uh, and we started talking about these papers and we were looking over my... This was my yearly review and looking back I'm like, "Goodness, these papers have been in play for a very long time." So it's a long road but, you know, you learn more and more and the more time you spend, you know, myopically looking at a- at a bunch of data the- the more you learn and the more you think. I- I totally agree. You know, talking into these devices for podcasts is wonderful 'cause, um, it's fun, it relieves a certain itch that we both have, and, um, hopefully it- it lands some important information out there for people. But doing research is- is like the, uh, the... I, you know, I...... I guess if you know, you know. There's like the, the, you know, the unpeeling of the onion-

    4. LFLex Fridman1:07:45

       Mm-hmm.

    5. AHAndrew Huberman1:07:45

       ... knowing that there could be something there. There's c- just nothing like it.

    6. LFLex Fridman1:07:49

       I mean, you do, e- especially with the pandemic, you, and, b- for me, both Twitter and the podcast have made me much more impatient about the slowness of the review process because, uh-

    7. AHAndrew Huberman1:08:02

       Twitter will do that.

    8. LFLex Fridman1:08:03

       ... Tw- Twitter will d- but even with podcasts, you, you have a cool, you'll find something cool and then you, you have ideas and all, and you'll just say them and they'll be out pretty quickly from the podcast.

    9. AHAndrew Huberman1:08:12

       Yeah, we do a post right now about something that we both found interesting-

    10. LFLex Fridman1:08:14

        Yeah.

    11. AHAndrew Huberman1:08:14

        ... and it's out in the world, yeah.

    12. LFLex Fridman1:08:16

        And you can write up something, like, uh, there is a culture in computer science of posting stuff on arXiv and, uh, pre-prints that don't get in your review, and sometimes they don't even go through the review process ever because like people just start using them if it's code.

    13. AHAndrew Huberman1:08:29

        Mm-hmm.

    14. LFLex Fridman1:08:29

        And it's like, "What's, what, what's the point of this?" It works, like the, it's self-evident that it works because people are using it and that, that I think applies more to eng- engineering fields 'cause it's an actual tool that works. It doesn't matter if it, you don't have to scientifically prove that it works. It works-

    15. AHAndrew Huberman1:08:46

        Right.

    16. LFLex Fridman1:08:46

        ... 'cause it's used for a lot of people.

    17. AHAndrew Huberman1:08:47

        Well, and sorry to interrupt, but I just, uh, for point of reference, the famous paper describing the double helix which earned Watson and Crick the Nobel Prize and, um, should have earned Rosalind Franklin a Nobel Prize too, of course, but they got it, um, for the structure of DNA, of course. That paper was never reviewed at Nature. They published it because its importance was self-evident or whatever, uh, they said.

    18. LFLex Fridman1:09:10

        Oh, interesting. So like the editors, uh-

    19. AHAndrew Huberman1:09:11

        Yeah. The, it was that purely editorial decision. I believe. I mean, that's what I was told by someone who's currently an editor at Nature, um, if that turns out to not be correct, someone will tell us in the comments, for sure.

    20. LFLex Fridman1:09:21

        Well, I think, uh-

    21. AHAndrew Huberman1:09:22

        But that's pretty interesting, right?

    22. LFLex Fridman1:09:23

        It's really interesting.

    23. AHAndrew Huberman1:09:23

        It's perhaps the most significant discovery in biology and bioengineering, which leading to bioengineering is- as well, of course, of the last century, was not peer-reviewed.

    24. LFLex Fridman1:09:34

        Yeah, but so Eric Weinstein, but many others have, uh, have talked about this, which is, I mean, I don't think people understand how poor the peer review process is. J- just the amount of... 'cause you think peer review means all the best peers get together and they review your stuff, but it's unpaid work and it's usually a small number of people and it's a very, they have a very select perspective, so they might not be the best person, especially if it's super novel work.

    25. AHAndrew Huberman1:10:05

        And it's who has time to do it.

    26. LFLex Fridman1:10:06

        Yeah.

    27. AHAndrew Huberman1:10:06

        I'm on a bunch of editorial boards still. Why? I don't know. But I enjoy the peer review process and sending papers out. Oftentimes the best scientists are very busy and don't have time to review.

    28. LFLex Fridman1:10:15

        Yeah.

    29. AHAndrew Huberman1:10:16

        And oftentimes, uh, the pr- more premier journals will select from a kind of a unique kit of very good scientists who are very close to the work. Sometimes the people are very far from the work.

    30. LFLex Fridman1:10:27

        Yeah.
13. 1:13:05 – 1:14:17

    InsideTracker

    1. LFLex Fridman1:13:05

       cool to see.

    2. AHAndrew Huberman1:13:06

       I'd like to take a brief break and thank our sponsor, InsideTracker. InsideTracker is a personalized nutrition platform that analyzes data from your blood and DNA to help you better understand your body and help you reach your health goals. I've long been a believer in getting regular blood work done for the simple reason that many of the factors that impact your immediate and long-term health can only be analyzed from a quality blood test. The problem with a lot of blood and DNA tests out there, however, is that you get data back about metabolic factors, lipids and hormones and so forth, but you don't know what to do with those data. InsideTracker solves that problem and makes it very easy for you to understand what sorts of nutritional...... behavioral, maybe even supplementation-based interventions you might want to take on in order to adjust the numbers of those metabolic factors, hormones, lipids, and other things that impact your immediate and long-term health, to bring those numbers into the ranges that are appropriate and indeed optimal for you. If you'd like to try InsideTracker, you can visit insidetracker.com/huberman to get $200 off an Ultimate Plan or 34% off the entire site as a special Black Friday deal now through the end of November. Again, that's insidetracker.com/huberman and use the code huberman

14. 1:14:17 – 1:26:05

    Twitter & Social Media Mindset, Andrew Tate & Masculinity

    1. AHAndrew Huberman1:14:17

       at checkout. I'm now on Twitter more regularly. Uh, and initially it was just Instagram and I remember we used- you and I used to have these, um, over, over dinner drink conversations where I'd say, "I don't understand Twitter." And you'd say, "I don't understand Instagram."

    2. LFLex Fridman1:14:31

       Yeah.

    3. AHAndrew Huberman1:14:31

       And of course, we understand how it worked-

    4. LFLex Fridman1:14:33

       Yeah.

    5. AHAndrew Huberman1:14:33

       ... and how to work e- each respective platform, but I think we were both trying to figure out, you know, what, what is driving the psychology of these different venues, 'cause they are quite distinct psychologies, um, for whatever reason. I think I'm finally starting to understand Twitter and enjoy it a little bit. Uh, initially I wasn't, uh, prepared for the level of kind of, um, reflexive scrutiny.

    6. LFLex Fridman1:14:56

       Yeah.

    7. AHAndrew Huberman1:14:56

       That sounds a little b- bit oxymoronic, but that people kind of like pick up on one small thing and then, you know, drive it down that, that trajectory.

    8. LFLex Fridman1:15:01

       Mm-hmm.

    9. AHAndrew Huberman1:15:01

       Didn't seem to be happening quite as much on Instagram, but, uh, I love your tweets. I, I do have a question about your, your, your Twitter, um, a- a- account and how you... Do you have sort of internal filters of what you'll put up and won't put up? Um, because sometimes you'll put up things that are about life and reflections, other times you'll put up, um, things like what you're excited about in AI or, of course, uh, you know, um, point to various podcasts, including your own but, but others as well. You know, what do you... how do you approach social media? Not, not in how do you regulate your behavior on there in terms of how much time, et cetera, I know you've talked about that before, but, uh, you know, what's your mindset around social media when you go on there to either, um, post or forage or respond to information?

    10. LFLex Fridman1:15:48

        I think I try to add some, not to sound cliché, but some love out there into the world, into, as OJ Simpson calls it, Twitter world.

    11. AHAndrew Huberman1:16:00

        (laughs)

    12. LFLex Fridman1:16:00

        Uh, I think there is this viral negativity that can take hold, and I try to find the right language to add, you know, good vibes out there. And it's actually really, really tricky because e- (laughs) there's something about positivity that sounds fake. And I'm not, I can't quite put my finger on it, but whenever I talk about love and, and, um, positive and almost childlike in my curiosity and positivity, people are, start to think, like, "Surely he has, like, skeletons in the closet. Like, there's dead bodies in his basement. Like, this must be a fake-"

    13. AHAndrew Huberman1:16:40

        It's the attic.

    14. LFLex Fridman1:16:41

        It's the attic?

    15. AHAndrew Huberman1:16:42

        The attic.

    16. LFLex Fridman1:16:42

        I keep mine in the basement.

    17. AHAndrew Huberman1:16:43

        (laughs)

    18. LFLex Fridman1:16:44

        That's the details. Uh-

    19. AHAndrew Huberman1:16:45

        I was referring to your attic. I don't have an attic or a basement.

    20. LFLex Fridman1:16:47

        Oh. Okay.

    21. AHAndrew Huberman1:16:48

        Nor dead bodies, I just wanna be very clear.

    22. LFLex Fridman1:16:50

        Yeah. I do have a- an attic and, um, actually I haven't been up to... Maybe there is bodies up there. But yes, I- I- I prefer the basement. It's colder down there. I like it. Uh, no, but there's an assumption that this is not genuine or not, um... it's- it's disingenuous in some kind of way. And so, um, I, I try to find the right language for that kind of stuff, how to, h- how to be positive. Some of it I was really inspired by, uh, Elon's approach to Twitter. Not all of it, (laughs) but the, uh, when he just is silly. I found that, uh, silliness, I think it's, uh, Hermann Hesse said, um, a- (laughs) something to, to paraphrase, uh, one of my favorite writers.

    23. AHAndrew Huberman1:17:35

        Yeah, same.

    24. LFLex Fridman1:17:35

        S- s- uh, I think in Steppenwolf, uh, s- said, uh, "Learn, uh, what is to be taken seriously and, uh, laugh at the rest." I think I try to be silly, laugh at myself, laugh at the absurdity of life, and then in part when I'm serious try to just be positive, uh, just see a positive perspective. But... and also, um, as you said, people pick out certain words and so on and they attack each other, attack me over certain usage of words in a particular tweet. I think the thing I try to do is think positively towards them. Like, do not escalate. So whenever somebody's criticizing me and so on, I, I just smile. If there's a lesson to be learned, I, I learn it, and then I just b- send good vibes their way, don't respond, and just hopefully sort of, um, through karma and through kind of the ripple effect of, uh, positivity have, like, a po- you know, an impact on, on them and the rest of Twitter. And, uh, what you find is, like, that builds... Your actions create the community. So how I behave gets me surrounded by certain people. But, you know, lately especially, Ukraine is one topic like this. I also thought about talking to... Somebody who reached out to me is Andrew Tate, who's extremely controversial, al- uh, from the perspective of a lot of people is a misogynist, and-

    25. AHAndrew Huberman1:19:06

        I- I've heard his name and I know that there's a lot of controversy around him. Maybe you could familiarize me.

    26. LFLex Fridman1:19:10

        Mm-hmm.

    27. AHAndrew Huberman1:19:11

        Um, I've been pretty nosed down in podcast prep and I tried to do this vacation thing for about three, four weeks.

    28. LFLex Fridman1:19:17

        I've heard about that.

    29. AHAndrew Huberman1:19:17

        Yeah, and, um, it sort of worked, (laughs) uh, I did get some time in the Colorado wilderness by myself, which was great, um, I did get, um, eh, some downtime, but, eh, in any event, it, I main- mainly consists of reading and, um, wasn't-

    30. LFLex Fridman1:19:34

        In nature.

Episode duration: 2:41:45