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Psychedelics for Treating Mental Disorders | Dr. Matthew Johnson

In this episode I discuss medical research on psychedelic compounds with Dr. Matthew Johnson, Professor of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine. We explore the biology and medical clinical trial uses of psilocybin, MDMA, ayahuasca, DMT and LSD. Dr. Johnson shares what the clinical trials in his lab reveal about the potential these compounds hold for treating depression, addiction, trauma, eating disorders, ADHD and other disorders of the mind. He describes a typical psychedelic experiment in his laboratory from start to finish, including the conditions that support optimal clinical outcomes. He also outlines potential hazards along with common misconceptions and pitfalls related to psychedelic medicine. Dr. Johnson explains flashbacks, the heightened risks certain people and age groups face when using psychedelics, and the ever-evolving legal and pharmaceutical landscape surrounding these substances. He discusses how the scientific study of psychedelics is likely to shape the future trajectory of psychiatric medicine. As one of a small handful of researchers who have pioneered the clinical study of these powerful compounds, Dr. Johnson offers unprecedented insight into how they can be woven into other psychiatric treatments, changing one’s sense of self and reality. For an up-to-date list of our current sponsors, please visit our website: https://www.hubermanlab.com/sponsors. Previous sponsors mentioned in this podcast episode may no longer be affiliated with us. Dr. Matthew Johnson Social Media: Twitter: https://twitter.com/Drug_Researcher Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drug_researcher Social: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/hubermanlab Twitter - https://twitter.com/hubermanlab Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/hubermanlab Website - https://hubermanlab.com Newsletter - https://hubermanlab.com/neural-network Links: Dr. Johnson’s Website at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine - https://hopkinspsychedelic.org/johnson Chris Letheby’s forthcoming book - https://amzn.to/3nMTaAs Timestamps: 00:00:00 Introducing Dr. Matthew Johnson 00:02:10 Supporting Sponsors 00:06:40 ‘Psychedelics’ Defined 00:14:09 Hallucinations, Synesthesia, Altered Space-Time Perception 00:19:56 Serotonin & Dopamine 00:23:50 Ketamine & Glutamate 00:28:00 An Example Psychedelic Experiment 00:37:30 ‘Letting Go’ with Psychedelics 00:44:10 Our Mind’s Eye 00:48:00 Redefining Your Sense of Self 00:58:56 Exporting Psychedelic Learnings to Daily Life 01:04:36 Flashbacks 01:12:10 Ayahuasca, & ASMR, Kundalini Breathing 01:15:54 MDMA, DMT 01:26:00 Dangers of Psychedelics, Bad Trips, Long-Lasting Psychosis 01:38:15 Micro-Dosing 01:56:45 Risks for Kids, Adolescents & Teenagers; Future Clinical Trials 02:03:40 Legal Status: Decriminalization vs. Legalization vs. Regulation 02:18:35 Psychedelics for Treating Concussion & Traumatic Brain Injury 02:27:45 Shifting Trends in Psychedelic Research, Academic Culture 02:44:23 Participating in a Clinical Trial, Online Survey Studies, Breathwork 02:50:38 Conclusions, Subscribing & Supporting the HLP, Supplements Please note that The Huberman Lab Podcast is distinct from Dr. Huberman's teaching and research roles at Stanford University School of Medicine. The information provided in this show is not medical advice, nor should it be taken or applied as a replacement for medical advice. The Huberman Lab Podcast, its employees, guests and affiliates assume no liability for the application of the information discussed.

Andrew HubermanhostDr. Matthew Johnsonguest
Sep 20, 20212h 52mWatch on YouTube ↗

CHAPTERS

  1. 0:00 – 10:20

    Introduction, Guest Background, and Scope of the Conversation

    Huberman introduces the podcast, outlines his mission of providing science‑based tools, names the sponsors, and presents Dr. Matthew Johnson as a leading researcher in psychedelic and drug effects on human behavior. They preview topics including microdosing vs macrodosing, clinical psilocybin therapy, and broader implications for mental health treatments.

  2. 10:20 – 29:20

    What Is a Psychedelic? Classes, Receptors, and Mechanisms

    Johnson explains that “psychedelic” is a high‑level, partly cultural term that cuts across pharmacological classes. He distinguishes classic 5‑HT2A agonist psychedelics, NMDA antagonists like ketamine, atypical agents like salvinorin A, and MDMA as an entactogen, clarifying how chemistry, receptor targets, and subjective effects intersect but do not map one‑to‑one.

  3. 29:20 – 51:00

    Serotonin, Dopamine, and How Psychedelics Alter Reality and Self

    They compare serotonergic and dopaminergic neuromodulation and how psychedelics change perception, time, space, and predictive models. Johnson frames humans as prediction machines whose top‑down models, including the model of self, are partially dissolved by psychedelics, enabling new interpretations of reality and selfhood.

  4. 51:00 – 1:05:20

    Inside a Clinical Psilocybin Session: Screening, Preparation, and Dosing

    Johnson walks through the full protocol used at Johns Hopkins for therapeutic psilocybin sessions: intensive medical and psychiatric screening, rapport‑building with guides, detailed education about possible experiences, and administration of pure psilocybin in capsule form at carefully chosen doses.

  5. 1:05:20 – 1:12:00

    Letting Go, Altered Self, and Therapeutic Mechanisms of Change

    They delve into the psychological mechanics of a high‑dose psilocybin trip: surrendering control, focusing deeply on inner experience, and allowing intense emotional and somatic states. Johnson argues that lasting benefit emerges from profound changes in self‑representation and sense of agency, rather than from verbal affirmations or insight alone.

  6. 1:12:00 – 1:41:20

    MDMA, Ketamine, and Comparing Therapeutic Models

    The discussion contrasts MDMA and ketamine with classic psychedelics in terms of pharmacology, phenomenology, and how they are currently used in therapy. Johnson criticizes purely pharmacologic ketamine models that ignore subjective experience and highlights studies where ketamine was treated more like a psychedelic with promising addiction outcomes.

  7. 1:41:20 – 2:04:20

    Integration: From Acute Experience to Lasting Life Changes

    Johnson outlines the post‑session process of integration: immediate debrief, written reflection, and follow‑up therapy sessions where participants unpack their experiences and translate them into specific behavioral and relational changes, while avoiding impulsive life decisions in the immediate aftermath.

  8. 2:04:20 – 2:23:20

    Risks, Contraindications, Bad Trips, and Flashbacks

    They candidly address the major psychological and behavioral risks of psychedelics, particularly for individuals with psychosis or bipolar predisposition and for unsupervised, high‑dose recreational use. Johnson clarifies myths around flashbacks and HPPD and makes nuanced comparisons with harms from alcohol and other drugs.

  9. 2:23:20 – 2:37:20

    Microdosing: Hype, Evidence, and Theoretical Safety Concerns

    They examine the popular practice of microdosing LSD or psilocybin for focus, creativity, or mood. Johnson outlines how microdoses are defined and prepared in the real world, summarizes current placebo‑controlled data, and raises a largely ignored cardiovascular safety issue related to 5‑HT2B receptor activation.

  10. 2:37:20 – 2:57:40

    Psychedelics in Youth, Legal Status, and Regulatory Futures

    They explore the prospect of psychedelic therapy in adolescents, the complex legal status of psychedelics in the U.S., and how medicalization via FDA approval will likely precede any broader regulatory reform. Johnson stresses the distinction between decriminalization, medical approval, and full legalization.

  11. 2:57:40 – 3:12:40

    Traumatic Brain Injury, Neuroplasticity, and Future Research Directions

    They discuss early, exploratory ideas about using psychedelics to aid recovery from traumatic brain injury (TBI), chronic traumatic encephalopathy–like syndromes, stroke, and cognitive impairments. Johnson connects rodent data on psychedelic‑induced neuroplasticity and human anecdotes from athletes to potential human trials in collaboration with organizations like the UFC.

  12. 3:12:40 – 3:33:20

    Funding, Philanthropy, and Building a Psychedelic Research Center

    Johnson explains how modern human psychedelic research survived the decades‑long funding winter through small foundations and philanthropists, then accelerated with major gifts that enabled the Johns Hopkins Center for Psychedelic and Consciousness Research. They discuss the NIH’s limited role to date and how philanthropic risk‑taking catalyzed the field’s rebirth.

  13. 3:33:20

    Closing Reflections, Accessing Trials, and The Broader Impact

    They close by discussing how people can find legitimate clinical trials, the limits of current access (all use must be under experimental protocols), and Johnson’s sense that this work is having real‑world impact. Huberman thanks Johnson for taking career risks to rigorously study psychedelics and for helping shape a science‑based path forward.

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