Alex Honnold Explains the Mindset Behind Climbing Taipei 101 LIVE

1. 0:00 – 1:27

   Intro

   1. JSJay Shetty0:00

      [suspenseful music] [camera clicking] [upbeat music] [camera clicking] On January 23rd, you're climbing the tallest building in Taiwan. Why?

   2. AHAlex Honnold0:37

      Why? Um, 'cause it's awesome.

   3. JSJay Shetty0:38

      [laughs]

   4. AHAlex Honnold0:39

      'Cause, 'cause, because I get to, basically. Um, because, yeah, it's 'cause it'll be so fun. Uh, I mean, yeah, basically it's, it's really hard to get permission to climb a building, and, and if you get permission, you kinda have to say yes. [laughs]

   5. JSJay Shetty0:50

      [laughs]

   6. AHAlex Honnold0:50

      You know, it's, it's like so many other sorts of life experiences where you're kinda like, "Well, it's a hard thing to do," but you get permission, you, you kinda just have to go do it.

   7. JSJay Shetty0:57

      And you've been wanting to climb this building for quite some time, right?

   8. AHAlex Honnold0:59

      Yeah. I actually scouted it for a different TV thing that fell apart in, uh, 2013, I think. So for the last, you know, 12 years I've known that it was possible. I knew that it's... I mean, the building is honestly uniquely suited for climbing. It's, it's kinda perfect. It's amazing. It's, uh... And it's a really beautiful building. I mean, I don't think that many people, uh, know what it looks like, but it's, it's-

   9. JSJay Shetty1:17

      I looked at it before. Yeah.

   10. AHAlex Honnold1:18

       Yeah, it's singular. It's striking. I mean, you saw how it sticks out of the, the cityscape. I mean, it's incredible. So it's, um, it's just it's so cool. But, so 12

2. 1:27 – 4:11

   The Deeper Reason Behind Climbing the Tallest Building

   1. AHAlex Honnold1:27

      years ago or s- or so, I scouted it and realized that I could do it, and was like, "This is amazing," uh, but never got the opportunity, and so now I get the opportunity.

   2. JSJay Shetty1:35

      I love that. And, and is this building that fascinating to you because of the architecture, because of the cityscape? Is that how you choose what you feel inspired to climb?

   3. AHAlex Honnold1:44

      I mean, a little bit. I think in general with rock formations, you know, there are always a bunch of d- different things that go into choosing a, a cool objective, but part of it is, uh, you know, the aesthetic beauty of it. Like, is it striking? Does it, does it catch the eye? Is it beautiful? Um, I mean, part of it is, uh, in rock climbing is sort of like the mythology of it, you know, like the climbing history. Like, is it important to climbers? Um, and so I think with buildings it's kinda the same way. Like, is it striking? Is it beautiful? Um, is it possible? Which in this case, it's kind of in the perfect sweet spot where it's possible and it's challenging, but it's not insanely challenging. Um, because if you're gonna do something for a TV program, it has to be, uh... Well, you just have to be able to do it on command. [laughs]

   4. JSJay Shetty2:22

      [laughs]

   5. AHAlex Honnold2:22

      You know? And so, uh, so you don't want it to be, you know, cutting edge, cutting... Like, the hardest thing ever done. You want it to be kind of in a sweet spot where you're like, "This is challenging and it's gonna, you know, keep me focused, but it's not insanely difficult."

   6. JSJay Shetty2:33

      Mm-hmm. You started climbing really young, right?

   7. AHAlex Honnold2:36

      Well, 10-ish. Which, um, actually nowadays elite climbers all start even younger. [laughs]

   8. JSJay Shetty2:41

      Really?

   9. AHAlex Honnold2:42

      But, um, but yeah, I was lucky enough to start as a kid.

   10. JSJay Shetty2:44

       And was it always the plan for it to be a professional pursuit or-

   11. AHAlex Honnold2:47

       No, no

   12. JSJay Shetty2:47

       ... just-

   13. AHAlex Honnold2:48

       Uh, no, my parents are both professors and, uh, you know, they were supportive and like, "Go do the thing that you like to do." But, I mean, especially when I was young, climbing was way more fringe, way more niche, and so nobody was a professional climber, you know? But thankfully as I grew up, that kind of... Climbing has also grown up quite a bit. Climbing's in the Olympics now. It's just way bigger of a sport, so it's a little less, uh, unusual, and there's just more money in it now, so you can actually make a living and... Yeah.

   14. JSJay Shetty3:12

       Was there a moment that you felt that you, uh, you're like, "Oh, I'm actually good at this," like, "This is real"? Like, when did that happen for this stuff?

   15. AHAlex Honnold3:18

       No, not really. It's... [laughs]

   16. JSJay Shetty3:19

       [laughs]

   17. AHAlex Honnold3:20

       I mean... No, I mean, for years I thought that I would wind up being a mountain guide or something, or... You know, I just wanted to-

   18. JSJay Shetty3:25

       Oh, wow

   19. AHAlex Honnold3:25

       ... I figured I'd get some kind of job within the climbing world.

   20. JSJay Shetty3:28

       Yeah.

   21. AHAlex Honnold3:28

       Um, and then, you know, I picked up some sponsors and started getting my gear for free and, and I was living in a van by myself, so it's pretty, pretty low overhead. [laughs] You're kinda just living. And, and then eventually you're kinda like, "Oh, I'm making a living doing this thing I love to do" and then eventually you're making a little more and, um, and then I was like, "Oh." I mean, it took years until I really thought of myself as a professional climber. You know, at first it was just kinda like, "Oh, I'm a, basically a homeless person living in a van who happens to get climbing shoes for free." And you're like, "Oh, that's cool," but that's different than feeling like you're actually gonna make a living as a, as a rock climber.

   22. JSJay Shetty3:58

       And so you were doing this even when it... There was, there was no money. There was... Uh, this was what you're, what you were chasing.

   23. AHAlex Honnold4:03

       Yeah, I just-

   24. JSJay Shetty4:03

       It's not like you were working another job and doing this on the side or something.

   25. AHAlex Honnold4:06

       No, I mean, I did work, you know. Like, I worked in my climbing gym, uh, when I was a kid and,

3. 4:11 – 6:58

   Choosing an Unconventional Path

   1. AHAlex Honnold4:11

      you know, worked a little bit on the side. But, uh, but no, basically I've just been trying to climb my whole life.

   2. JSJay Shetty4:15

      Wow. What was the first climb that you did that was challenging and, and risky or some sort of, like, real-

   3. AHAlex Honnold4:22

      I mean, I think as I started to dabble outdoors, 'cause, uh, I grew up in suburban California, like, in Sacramento, and so I would just ride my bicycle to the climbing gym. And so for the first, you know, eight years of my climbing life is just going climbing in the gym. Um, so I mean, it's super fun and you can learn all the skills that way, but it's not particularly extreme or anything. [laughs] It's not like, uh, you know, it's not what people think of as adventure. And then once I learned how to drive and then started, like, borrowing the family car and started going outside more, then I started having some of the adventures that I think characterize, you know, what, what people think of as, as extreme rock climbing and all that.

   4. JSJay Shetty4:56

      Yeah. What, what's the experience for you? Like, is it the thrill? Is it the fascination? What, what part of it gives you life and brings you alive? Like, what part of it gives you joy?

   5. AHAlex Honnold5:07

      I mean, I think at the core is just the, the movement of climbing. Like, I literally just came here from the climbing gym, 'cause I had a little time in between things and-

   6. JSJay Shetty5:13

      I can see on your hands, yeah

   7. AHAlex Honnold5:13

      ... Oh, yeah, yeah, I'd, I'd been washed my hands.

   8. JSJay Shetty5:15

      [laughs]

   9. AHAlex Honnold5:15

      But, um, but yeah, it's like there's a, there's a climbing gym relatively nearby and I was like, "Oh, perfect." So just did a quick sesh-

   10. JSJay Shetty5:20

       Yeah

   11. AHAlex Honnold5:20

       ... and basically just rapid-fired problems around the gym, uh, bouldering gym, so just short and, you know, safe, and I just did an hour as fast as I could, and now I'm tired and I'm like, "What a nice day."

   12. JSJay Shetty5:30

       [laughs]

   13. AHAlex Honnold5:30

       So it's really just the movement of, of climbing, I think is, is the, the... At the core, that's the joy of it. But then beyond that, there's the, the challenge, you know, like overcoming fears. Uh, you know, as a professional climber, I mean, the travel involved in it, like, seeing the world, being outdoors in nature, having, you know, beautiful experiences, all, all your friends. I mean, there are all these other things that are amazing about climbing.But I think the thing that always brings me back to is I just like climbing. You know, it's like running or swimming or other sort of like elemental movement patterns. It just feels good to do the thing.

   14. JSJay Shetty5:59

       Yeah. Tell me about the actual skill of climbing for someone who isn't a climber.

   15. AHAlex Honnold6:03

       You haven't climbed at all?

   16. JSJay Shetty6:04

       I have-- I don't think I've climbed at all. I'm trying to think about it in my life. I don't think I've ever climbed, and so I, I would love to understand, like talk to me about the actual skill of climbing as if you were training me in-

   17. AHAlex Honnold6:14

       Even as a kid, you never climbed on things or like played and-

   18. JSJay Shetty6:15

       Oh, yeah, I did. Oh, yeah, of course. I loved climbing on things. I wanted to do parkour my kids-

   19. AHAlex Honnold6:19

       Oh, yeah.

   20. JSJay Shetty6:19

       My, my parents would never let me.

   21. AHAlex Honnold6:20

       Oh, yeah. Yeah.

   22. JSJay Shetty6:21

       Uh, they-- But I-- Parkour was like my fascination.

   23. AHAlex Honnold6:23

       Yeah.

   24. JSJay Shetty6:23

       I saw kids doing parkour. I was like, "That's so cool." I love climbing trees. I love climbing walls.

   25. AHAlex Honnold6:28

       Yeah. So I think that's-

   26. JSJay Shetty6:28

       I've climbed a lot of gates. I've climbed like that-

   27. AHAlex Honnold6:30

       Yeah

   28. JSJay Shetty6:30

       ... but I mean, like I've never-

   29. AHAlex Honnold6:31

       Well, I think that's the same thing basically.

   30. JSJay Shetty6:33

       Yeah.
4. 6:58 – 9:28

   Why Consistent Practice Changes Everything

   1. AHAlex Honnold6:58

      I think it's pretty normal to play on things in that way. And so it's interesting that now as an adult people are like, "Why would you do that?" And you're kinda like, "'Cause it's awesome, 'cause it's so fun." It's like the same reason the kids like to do that because it's, it's, it's cool.

   2. JSJay Shetty7:09

      Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I still love a ropes course.

   3. AHAlex Honnold7:12

      Hmm.

   4. JSJay Shetty7:12

      Like I, you know, if I have a... But I g- I get the play bit, but what are the skills that you've had to build to actually be able to do this professionally? Because there's a difference between I love the play and then, you know, I'm gonna climb the 11 tallest building in the world. Like what's-

   5. AHAlex Honnold7:25

      Yeah

   6. JSJay Shetty7:25

      ... what's, what's the training? What's the skill level? Talk to me about the mastery from zero to where you are today. What are the steps that it's taken to-

   7. AHAlex Honnold7:35

      I mean, yeah. I mean, like in some ways you just go and do the thing all the time, and you get better at it. Uh, you know, on the other hand, it's like I've been, yeah, I've been climbing probably five days a week for 30 years [chuckles] . And so you're like, oh, you're bound to slowly get better at something if you put that much effort into it. Um, but yeah, I mean, I guess the... I mean, it comes down to movement, like how well do you move your body, like transferring your weight over your feet. Like in theory, your legs should be driving you for most things. I mean, people think of climbing as pulling with your arms, but really you should think of it as, as climbing a, a steep, steep staircase.

   8. JSJay Shetty8:04

      Right.

   9. AHAlex Honnold8:04

      So you should be driving with your legs, and you should be using your hands almost like you were on a handrail like for balance. Um, you know, obviously if a climb is more than vertical, then you have to hang on with your arms more. But still you should be driving as much as you can through your feet, so it comes down to technique and, you know, body position, where you, how you use your hips, all that kind of stuff. But, you know, in some ways I think that overcomplicates it though. It's like really you just go and you, and you try. You know, you just go climbing.

   10. JSJay Shetty8:28

       [laughs] I, I love, I love how casual you make it sound when I'm thinking like, in my head I'm thinking, well, you never skip leg day 'cause you need to work on that. Like are there certain muscle groups that you just need to be proficient at and prolific at so that you can be a better climber?

   11. AHAlex Honnold8:43

       I mean, climbing is very full body, so it's like basically you use everything. I mean, if you could just like turn the dials on something, if you could turn your finger strength to infinity, then you'd be a great climber. You know, it's like basically if you can hold on to things very, very well, then basically you can, you can climb well. Um-

   12. JSJay Shetty8:58

       How do you build your finger strength at the-

   13. AHAlex Honnold8:59

       Well, sadly, um, um, finger strength is probably my biggest weakness as a climber. It's probably the one thing that, um, or it's probably the thing that I'm worst at overall, especially compared to my peers, like other professional climbers. Um, I've always been sort of better with sort of full body. Like I think I have good technique, and so I can transfer a lot of weight to my feet and sort of keep them off my fingers 'cause my fingers aren't that strong. Um, but in general, you build finger strength the same way you build any other strength. You basically load your fingers. And finger strength is actually your forearm strength. It's like your, uh, you know, 'cause you

5. 9:28 – 11:51

   What It Really Takes to Become Great

   1. AHAlex Honnold9:28

      control your hand like through your forearm.

   2. JSJay Shetty9:29

      Yeah, grip strength.

   3. AHAlex Honnold9:29

      Yeah, grip strength. And so you just build that by, you know, hanging from small edges or hanging with more weight on you. Uh, just, you know, you build up.

   4. JSJay Shetty9:38

      How many hours do you spend training per week?

   5. AHAlex Honnold9:41

      Um, I can probably spend, you know, three to five hours, uh, in a session climbing, and I can do that maybe five days a week or so.

   6. JSJay Shetty9:50

      Wow.

   7. AHAlex Honnold9:50

      Is it-- But that doesn't totally do... You know, some of the days that I go, you know, quote unquote, "climbing," I'm going soloing in the mountains or something. And so of that time, a chunk of it is hiking into the thing. Some of it's climbing the thing. Some of it's like eating lunch on top and trying to figure out where the next-- how to get off the mountain or whatever. [chuckles] You know what I mean? Like there-- sometimes you can have a six or eight hour day in the mountains, and you're kinda like strolling, but it's all very low intensity. You're kinda like wandering through the mountains and figuring out what you're doing. It's not like, it's not like-

   8. JSJay Shetty10:16

      It's not intense the whole time, is it?

   9. AHAlex Honnold10:17

      Yeah. It's not like Michael Phelps training in the pool or something.

   10. JSJay Shetty10:19

       [laughs]

   11. AHAlex Honnold10:19

       You know what I mean? You're like wandering around the mountains, like slightly confused, trying to figure out... And I mean, sometimes you walk into the mountains, it turns out it's cold and raining, and then you walk back, and you're kinda like, "Well, I didn't actually climb anything." [chuckles]

   12. JSJay Shetty10:30

       Yeah.

   13. AHAlex Honnold10:30

       And that's just the way it goes. When you-- when you count like hours of training... And actually, so in the past, I, I used to have a training journal where I did keep track of hours, and now I don't really keep track of time because that's not really the best metric, I don't think. It's more around effort and, uh, you know, like what you've actually done. [chuckles]

   14. JSJay Shetty10:45

       Yeah.

   15. AHAlex Honnold10:45

       It's like, 'cause some days you spend a ton of time, but you don't do that much, and then other days in a couple hours you can get completely destroyed because you're going super hard.

   16. JSJay Shetty10:52

       Yeah. What's, what's been your favorite place you've got lost?

   17. AHAlex Honnold10:55

       [laughs] That's a good question. I don't know. I mean, um, I live in Las Vegas, and, uh, Red Rock, uh, Conservation Area is like this big world-famous climbing destination like just outside of town, and I live near it, and I climb in Red Rock all the time, and I still get lost all the time. It's like really complicated sandstone canyons with like folds of rock and, you know, tricky... It's just, yeah. I mean, it's crazy 'cause s- every season I'm like, "Where'd the trail go?" I'm like, "Oh, I live here, and I hike this all the time," and I'm like, "How am I still lost?" [chuckles] But, you know, that's the, that's the joy of being outdoors really.

   18. JSJay Shetty11:26

       When you were talking about the mindset as well, you were saying half of it is, you know, the beauty of the landscape or the rock formation, and you said the other half is just your fascination with overcoming fear and, and the mindset piece. I imagine being lost while doing something you love is quite a special feeling it seems that you've made friends with.

   19. AHAlex Honnold11:43

       I mean, I've never really... A-actually, there have only been a couple times where I've been like lost lost. Like it-- Once I actually climbing a thing in South Africa, I thought I was gonna have to drop

6. 11:51 – 13:41

   Lessons From Getting Lost

   1. AHAlex Honnold11:51

      into... Now I forget, what's the neighboring country to the north? Um, we were right on the border like north of Johannesburg. Um-I forget what the next country north is. But, um, but basically I thought I was gonna have to drop over the border, like into another country and basically go find a village, 'cause we were up on a mountain basically, and you could see villages off in the distance. But I was like, couldn't find my way back to [laughs] where I was supposed to, and was kind of like, "I'm just gonna go fully rogue here, and just have to like borrow somebody's phone and try to find a way to contact the people that I'm supposed to be." But, um, uh, ultimately I found my way, eventually. Showed up hours late and totally torn to shreds from like crawling through the bushes all confused. But, so I've only had a few experiences like that where I'm lost lost. Um, for the most part, you always have a sense of where you're supposed to be going, you're just not on the trail or, you know, you can't find the best way.

   2. JSJay Shetty12:35

      Yeah, yeah.

   3. AHAlex Honnold12:35

      But, but that is, I mean, that is kind of the joy of climbing, is you just have tons of experiences like that where you're like, "Oh, I'm doing some crazy thing."

   4. JSJay Shetty12:40

      [laughs]

   5. AHAlex Honnold12:42

      You know?

   6. JSJay Shetty12:42

      I, I read that in 2016, neuroscientists conducted a brain scan and found that your amygdala responded much less to fear than the average person. Did you always fe- feel that way growing up?

   7. AHAlex Honnold12:54

      No, but I... Well, so th- this is part of a longer thing, but I would suspect that your amygdala probably responds less to fear than the average person, just in the same way, like years of meditation will do the same thing. It's like you're just not gonna respond to stimulus in the same way. And so for me, I see that as basically I've been getting afraid, I've been consistently experiencing fear all the time as a climber, you know, [laughs] for years. And so then, uh, the test they, they did for that particular brain scan, you know, you're in an fMRI and then you look at these black and white photos. And I'm like, well, obviously looking at photos while I'm lying down inside a sealed tube is just not scary. You know? If you spend your whole life getting scared all the time, that's not scary.

   8. JSJay Shetty13:27

      Mm-hmm.

   9. AHAlex Honnold13:28

      And in the same way that I'm sure if somebody scans your brain, it's gonna be different than average because you've spent a ton of time working on it, basically. You're kind of like, that seems totally reasonable. [laughs] You know? It's like, I don't know. I- It's a shame 'cause there's a scene

7. 13:41 – 17:00

   Why Fear Loses Its Power Over Time

   1. AHAlex Honnold13:41

      in Free Solo, you know, they show a little-

   2. JSJay Shetty13:42

      Yeah

   3. AHAlex Honnold13:42

      ... clip from that when... And basically everyone watching the movie comes out of it like, "Well, there's something wrong with his brain." And you're like, no, the takeaway is that if you practice something your whole life, you get better at it.

   4. JSJay Shetty13:51

      Yeah.

   5. AHAlex Honnold13:51

      And it's like, that's, that's the real lesson.

   6. JSJay Shetty13:53

      Yeah. That, that, I mean, now looking at it from your perspective, that makes a lot of sense.

   7. AHAlex Honnold13:57

      Mm-hmm.

   8. JSJay Shetty13:57

      In that you're li- you're right that when you're doing those tests, it will rarely be as scary as something you've done in reality.

   9. AHAlex Honnold14:06

      Yeah, I mean, it's in... Like, I get tons of questions around fear and like managing fear and all that, and, and, you know, my answers have obviously like changed over time, and I've like thought about fear a ton in my life. And, and now honestly, I'm always like, you know, it's been 30 years I've been climbing all the time, and climbing's really scary. Like, you're always scared at least a little bit as a climber, 'cause there are always consequences in climbing. Even if you're climbing with a rope and you're using protection, you're still always a little bit on edge because, you know, you're like, "What if the rope cut?" Like, "What if, you know, I didn't tie my knot?" Like, there are always these what ifs, and so you're always a little bit afraid. And so I think that it changes your relationship with fear because you're just scared all the time. I mean, you know, not like deep fear, but there's always an, an edge to it. And so I think that puts all the other fear in life sort of in perspective, you know? It, it gets you good at managing fear because you, you experience it a lot.

   10. JSJay Shetty14:53

       How do you moderate it or regulate it in that moment when you've gotta place the next step, you've gotta reach for something else, you've gotta keep moving? Because I think that's... You're spot on, by the way. I, I love the way you're talking about fear because I think you're absolutely right that if you're constantly in a state of discomfort, but you have the right mindset, because a lot of people are in the state of discomfort, but then they overthink or they procrastinate or they get stuck.

   11. AHAlex Honnold15:16

       Well, I think it's like if it's their first time in a state of discomfort, then it's pretty overwhelming. But if you're used to that state of discomfort, you're kinda like, "Oh, it's just another day." You know? And I think that's the thing with climbing, is that a lot of the time, you know, you're a little bit scared, but you just totally ignore it because y- the rational part of your mind is like, "This is fine." Like, your harness is on, like everything is safe. The rope is safe. You're totally fine, and so you just ignore it. But then occasionally you're like, "Oh, I'm scared because I'm in danger." [laughs] And so then you're kind of like, "Oh, I should think about this and sort of evaluate, like is... You know, am I gonna be okay? Is it, should I, should I take different actions? Um, should I try to mitigate this in some way?" So I don't, I mean, you know, it totally depends. But that's the thing as a climber is you're constantly balancing those kinds of things. Like, is this fear well-founded? Should I act upon it in some way? Should I do something? Should I not? You know.

   12. JSJay Shetty16:00

       Yeah. And so, so your relationship with fear seems just very neutral in the sense of you're having a conversation with it, it's like every other day.

   13. AHAlex Honnold16:08

       Yeah. Well, I, I sometimes, um... I mean, fear is a sensation in your body, same as like lots of other things, and so I've used this analogy before, but I'm kind of like, it's like hunger. You know? It's like when you experience hunger, you're not like, "Oh my God, I'm hungry. I need a sandwich right now." You're just kind of like, "Okay, I should eat at some point." And I feel like, I think because people experience fear much less frequently, it feels more overwhelming.

   14. JSJay Shetty16:30

       Mm.

   15. AHAlex Honnold16:31

       But, you know, if you experience fear with the same regularity that you experience hunger, then you're kinda like, "Okay," like, "I'll deal with that in due time. Like when it makes sense, I'll manage that."

   16. JSJay Shetty16:40

       Mm.

   17. AHAlex Honnold16:40

       But fundamentally, feeling fear is just feeling some sensations in your body. You're so... Like, it's not like... Doesn't matter more or less than any other thing that you feel in your body, really, unless it's telling you you're about to die. [laughs]

   18. JSJay Shetty16:51

       Yeah. [laughs]

   19. AHAlex Honnold16:51

       In which case you should pay attention.

   20. JSJay Shetty16:52

       Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Do you, do you feel that that, what you just said about the more frequently you are exposed to fear, the less fear affects you,

8. 17:00 – 20:42

   Understanding Fear as a Physical Sensation

   1. JSJay Shetty17:00

      does that translate from the physical sensation to when you're having emotional, relational challenges as well?

   2. AHAlex Honnold17:07

      Um, probably less so than, uh, my wife wishes, you know? [laughs]

   3. JSJay Shetty17:10

      [laughs] No, you know what I mean, right?

   4. AHAlex Honnold17:12

      Yeah. I mean, I think it does a little bit probably-

   5. JSJay Shetty17:14

      Yeah

   6. AHAlex Honnold17:14

      ... because, you know, to some extent managing fear is managing fear.

   7. JSJay Shetty17:16

      Yes.

   8. AHAlex Honnold17:17

      Um, but it is a little bit of what you practice. Like, I think I'm really good at, at dealing with like physical fear, like physical risk and, and things where I'm like I f- feel like I'm in danger. Um, less so, I mean, public speaking I was horrified of for a long time. But again, with tons of practice, it's gotten much more comfortable. It's fine. Um, and then like relationship-able stuff, I'm sort of like, oh, that's... I mean, my wife would say there's still a long ways to go. [laughs]

   9. JSJay Shetty17:39

      [laughs] Yeah. Talk to me about the difference between like the fear of what you do, which most of us would see as that is scary-

   10. AHAlex Honnold17:46

       Mm

   11. JSJay Shetty17:46

       ... and then public speaking, which is known as one of the scariest things to do-

   12. AHAlex Honnold17:49

       Yeah, I mean [laughs]

   13. JSJay Shetty17:50

       ... on planet Earth. Like, talk to me-

   14. AHAlex Honnold17:51

       Yeah

   15. JSJay Shetty17:51

       ... about the differences. [laughs]

   16. AHAlex Honnold17:52

       No, I think it's really similar. I mean, I think most people are... I mean, I was definitely more afraid of public speaking than, than-... climbing, but obviously, you know, I love climbing.

   17. JSJay Shetty18:01

       Yeah.

   18. AHAlex Honnold18:01

       I spent my whole life doing it.

   19. JSJay Shetty18:02

       Yeah.

   20. AHAlex Honnold18:02

       But public speaking is, is horrifying.

   21. JSJay Shetty18:04

       [laughs]

   22. AHAlex Honnold18:05

       Though that said, now that I've had a lot of practice with it, I would say that, uh, it's not that scary. Whereas climbing still always has some edge to it because fundamentally you could die. [laughs]

   23. JSJay Shetty18:16

       Yeah.

   24. AHAlex Honnold18:17

       You know, with public speaking, it, like, feels like you might die, but you're just... You know, it's fine.

   25. JSJay Shetty18:20

       Yeah.

   26. AHAlex Honnold18:21

       Like, you can always go out and, like, make a fool of yourself and it doesn't really matter.

   27. JSJay Shetty18:24

       Well, that's, that's what I'm saying, right? Like, it-- the reason why we get scared of doing things that-- where there isn't a cost is because we almost make it out like there is-

   28. AHAlex Honnold18:32

       Yeah. Yeah

   29. JSJay Shetty18:32

       ... a higher stake to it.

   30. AHAlex Honnold18:34

       Yeah, but I think that with a little bit of practice, you realize that there just isn't that high of a stake.
9. 20:42 – 22:41

   The Discipline of Staying Within Your Limits

   1. AHAlex Honnold20:42

      Yeah

   2. JSJay Shetty20:42

      ... because that means I'm growing-

   3. AHAlex Honnold20:43

      Well, and then-

   4. JSJay Shetty20:43

      ... I'm, I'm trying something new.

   5. AHAlex Honnold20:45

      Well, and that's the whole thing is like, are you experiencing fear? Are you experiencing nervousness or excitement or... You know, 'cause a lot of those things are the same sensation in your body really. You're like, "Oh, I'm like a little nervous," and, or, "I'm feeling like butterflies, and I feel tingling, and I'm on edge, and I feel heightened." And you're like, "Am I afraid or am I excited?" Like, I don't know. I mean, it's hard to exactly pinpoint some of those kinds of things, and so, so I think it's... You just don't wanna put too fine a point on like, "I'm scared," 'cause you're like, or you're just psyched.

   6. JSJay Shetty21:11

      Yeah. Yeah.

   7. AHAlex Honnold21:11

      You know? Like, I know that when I get to the bottom of the building, like, uh... Actually, s-surprisingly, the first move off the ground is one of the harder moves on the climb. [laughs]

   8. JSJay Shetty21:19

      [laughs]

   9. AHAlex Honnold21:19

      And you kinda have to like jump up and catch this thing and, like, start climbing and, like, basically taking the first step on a building is like one of the hardest, and I'm sure I'm gonna be a little nervous and a little tight and just kinda like, "Oh, this is..." You know, with cameras and people and a whole spectacle, I'll be like-

   10. JSJay Shetty21:32

       And lights

   11. AHAlex Honnold21:32

       ... "This is crazy."

   12. JSJay Shetty21:33

       Yeah.

   13. AHAlex Honnold21:33

       Yeah. It's just gonna be like the, you know, I'm nervous, but does that mean I'm scared? I'm like, I mean, we'll see. I don't think so, but I think it'll be exciting for sure.

   14. JSJay Shetty21:40

       Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. No, I, I mean, not that I've done anything that I think is that hard, but anything I've ever done for the first time-

   15. AHAlex Honnold21:48

       Yeah, it's scary a little bit

   16. JSJay Shetty21:48

       ... even if I've done it for a long time-

   17. AHAlex Honnold21:50

       Mm

   18. JSJay Shetty21:51

       ... it's still nerve-wracking. Like I said, not comparing anything at all, but yes, for me, if I was going into a longer meditation than I've ever done before-

   19. AHAlex Honnold21:58

       Yeah, you'd be like, "This is a new step"

   20. JSJay Shetty21:59

       ... that's-

   21. AHAlex Honnold21:59

       Yeah.

   22. JSJay Shetty21:59

       Absolutely. I'm still nervous, and again, not-

   23. AHAlex Honnold22:01

       What, what is, what is the longest meditation you've done?

   24. JSJay Shetty22:03

       Oof.

   25. AHAlex Honnold22:03

       What, what's considered, like, a long meditation?

   26. JSJay Shetty22:05

       So we would do a minimum of four to eight hours a day when I lived in-

   27. AHAlex Honnold22:10

       But in blocks or something?

   28. JSJay Shetty22:11

       No, in, in full chunks. Like, you could do four together or eight together sometimes.

   29. AHAlex Honnold22:14

       Dude.

   30. JSJay Shetty22:15

       Yeah. Sometimes. Yeah. Uh, but the longest one I-
10. 22:41 – 25:55

    What Extended Meditation Teaches You

    1. JSJay Shetty22:41

       because you have to go beyond the body to be that present in the moment, because you'll start... And I mean, yours is much harder, but, like, you start feeling an ache or a pain. You start itching. You start mentally getting lost somewhere-

    2. AHAlex Honnold22:55

       Yeah, of course

    3. JSJay Shetty22:55

       ... and so you've gotta-

    4. AHAlex Honnold22:55

       When your back hurts and your butt hurts and-

    5. JSJay Shetty22:57

       Totally. Totally

    6. AHAlex Honnold22:57

       ... yeah.

    7. JSJay Shetty22:57

       So you've gotta go beyond the body and the mind and-

    8. AHAlex Honnold22:59

       Well, in 24 hours you get hungry. You have to go to the bathroom.

    9. JSJay Shetty23:01

       Exactly. [laughs]

    10. AHAlex Honnold23:02

        You know what I mean? How do you, like-

    11. JSJay Shetty23:03

        Yeah. No, you're fasting to make it easier, but-

    12. AHAlex Honnold23:05

        Yeah

    13. JSJay Shetty23:05

        ... but, uh, but yeah, but-

    14. AHAlex Honnold23:06

        But does that make it easier? [laughs] I mean, it makes it easier to... But, you know, 'cause just fasting for 24 hours is its own challenge.

    15. JSJay Shetty23:12

        Yeah. We, we would do it often enough, so it wasn't, it wasn't... Again, it's what you just said about-

    16. AHAlex Honnold23:17

        I mean, it's what you practice

    17. JSJay Shetty23:17

        ... when, when you're practicing it, it's, it doesn't sound that crazy for me to say out loud because I know other monks who've done it for three days and seven days and, you know, for, for longer, than far longer.

    18. AHAlex Honnold23:26

        Can people meditate for seven days?

    19. JSJay Shetty23:28

        Oh, absolutely.

    20. AHAlex Honnold23:28

        For real?

    21. JSJay Shetty23:29

        There are, there are like, there are like-- There's some people that... I mean, yeah, I'm, I'm like a complete beginner when it comes to, you know, the realm of real, you know, work that some of these incredible people that I got to meet have done.

    22. AHAlex Honnold23:40

        Dude, but seven days is a long time to sit.

    23. JSJay Shetty23:42

        Yeah, it's a long time to sit.

    24. AHAlex Honnold23:44

        That's-

    25. JSJay Shetty23:44

        And maybe not good [laughs] for some people.

    26. AHAlex Honnold23:46

        I don't know. It feels like more than you might need.

    27. JSJay Shetty23:48

        Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

    28. AHAlex Honnold23:49

        So, you know.

    29. JSJay Shetty23:49

        Well, it's, it's always like that int-interesting thing where I remember when I was starting to do cold plunges in the beginning, I'd always be like, "What's the right amount of time to be in a cold plunge?" And when I was-

    30. AHAlex Honnold23:59

        Zero.
11. 25:55 – 28:51

    Preparing the Mind and Body for a Big Challenge

    1. AHAlex Honnold25:55

       like a, like a D-Day style parachute, you know, like old school military parachutes. 'Cause like a modern parachute is like a wing, has a direction to it, so it's actually not that helpful for something like a building 'cause you'd have to be able to get a clean exit away from the building and turn away from it and face the correct direction. Because if you're, if you deployed your parachute and you went into the building, you'd just crumple and collapse and die. So anyway, but so like a drop parachute, just like an old school, like what you imagine like G.I. Joe using that just goes straight down. When I was planning on the Burj, I was kinda like, well, maybe I'd use something like that, because then if, you know, you did slip, at least you could just basically plummet straight down the face-

    2. JSJay Shetty26:26

       Right. [laughs]

    3. AHAlex Honnold26:26

       ... of the building. [laughs] Like, it might kinda be okay.

    4. JSJay Shetty26:28

       Yeah, yeah.

    5. AHAlex Honnold26:29

       You know, maybe you'd break your ankle at the bottom, but you're not gonna die. And so, you know, I started considering ideas like that. I was like, this is all crazy. This is too much.

    6. JSJay Shetty26:36

       [laughs]

    7. AHAlex Honnold26:36

       Like, this is too extreme basically. And so I mean, that's an example of a climb where I'm like, yeah, it's possible, like somebody could do it, but it's just way outside what I think is reasonable.

    8. JSJay Shetty26:45

       Yeah.

    9. AHAlex Honnold26:46

       Um, but then when I went and scouted Taipei 101, I was kind of like, oh, it has all the same, uh, features of a striking building that's like the biggest thing in the whole landscape. It's amazing. But the style of climbing's way more secure. Like, the things that you're grabbing are way less slippery, and they, um, the shape of them works better. Like, you can just hold on better. I was just like, oh, this is the type of challenge I'm looking for.

    10. JSJay Shetty27:07

        Yeah. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. I, I wonder whether now after this they're gonna start building buildings for you to climb.

    11. AHAlex Honnold27:13

        [laughs]

    12. JSJay Shetty27:13

        [laughs] That's what's gonna happen.

    13. AHAlex Honnold27:14

        Of course. I don't, I don't think architects even, it, I don't even think it crosses their mind, like what humans can hold on the outside.

    14. JSJay Shetty27:19

        Yeah.

    15. AHAlex Honnold27:20

        'Cause it's interesting. I mean, some buildings are just completely impossible 'cause they're just smooth metal and glass, and then other buildings are like a ladder. You know?

    16. JSJay Shetty27:26

        Yes.

    17. AHAlex Honnold27:26

        It's almost like a jungle gym where it's like too easy. It's kinda trivial. Like, anybody could walk up and do it if they wanted to.

    18. JSJay Shetty27:31

        Yes.

    19. AHAlex Honnold27:31

        Like the New York Times building in, uh, in, in, uh, uh, New York City has been climbed by a handful of random people, and like some just random dude off the street just climbed like half the building 'cause it's like a scaffolding basically. And you're kinda like, well, that's not the challenge that I'm looking for because I've spent my whole life practicing this thing. I wanna do something that's hard enough that it feels meaningful to me.

    20. JSJay Shetty27:50

        Yeah, for sure. How, how do you prepare for a climb? So you scout it out, but how do you, how, how do you then prepare? Like, how are you preparing right now for January the 3rd?

    21. AHAlex Honnold27:57

        Yeah, I actually just started all my training type stuff for it. Um, it's funny, I did the scout in September, uh, because they have to do it far enough out to, you know, assemble the crew and plan the filming and all that kinda stuff. And so, and it's funny because I was super psyched at the time, where like you go and scout it and you're like, "God, this is so cool. I'm so excited. Like, I wanna do this next week," you know? I'm like, "Let's do this. I'm ready." But then I kinda had to just sit on it for, uh, you know, a couple months, uh, just because it's scheduled for January. And so, um, and so now sort of two and a half months out I've started, like, properly training. Um, you just don't wanna start, like, really training too far out because then you'll just get like injured and tired and, you know. It's like you kinda wanna peak at the right time.

    22. JSJay Shetty28:33

        Mm-hmm.

    23. AHAlex Honnold28:34

        And so yeah. I'm just, I don't know, like all the, all the ways you normally train, like eating really well, sleeping really well, exercising a tremendous amount, [laughs] and just kind of trying to ramp up my volume so that I feel incredibly fit when the time comes.

    24. JSJay Shetty28:45

        Oh, and that's so interesting that you said you have to peak at the right time.

    25. AHAlex Honnold28:49

        Yeah.

    26. JSJay Shetty28:49

        So have you learned how to

12. 28:51 – 33:03

    How High Performers Actually Train

    1. JSJay Shetty28:51

       do that over time, I assume? Because in my head I'm thinking, oh wait, for something this big you'd prepare six months in advance. But I love what you're saying that actually-

    2. AHAlex Honnold28:58

       Well, but-

    3. JSJay Shetty28:58

       Yeah

    4. AHAlex Honnold28:59

       ... yeah, like a training block normally you can only sustain, say, three to six weeks of hard effort before you kinda need like a deload time. Like, basically you can only build for a certain amount of time, and then you need some kind of natural rest, and then you can start building again. And so ideally you sort of like naturally build up over time. But if you were, say, six months out from an event, you'd have to have a pretty sophisticated, like I'm gonna train really hard for a month, but then rest for like a week or two, and then train really hard, you know. You need like a s- complicated plan. In this case I have a relatively simple plan in that I'm basically just ramping until the building. And, uh, I kinda started my training maybe a little prematurely. I was all psyched. [laughs]

    5. JSJay Shetty29:32

       [laughs]

    6. AHAlex Honnold29:32

       And so I think I'm gonna take a little deload time around Christmas, which actually works perfectly with the holidays and things, 'cause I think I'll, I'll basically wind up doing six weeks or so, and then have like a week at Christmas where I kinda chill, and then do another three or four weeks, and then do the thing. So-

    7. JSJay Shetty29:44

       You sound just like us, Alex. No. [laughs]

    8. AHAlex Honnold29:46

       I know. Well, it just seems-

    9. JSJay Shetty29:47

       No, I'm joking

    10. AHAlex Honnold29:48

        ... it, well, it's all kind of perfectly-

    11. JSJay Shetty29:49

        Yeah

    12. AHAlex Honnold29:49

        ... you know, I think it should be perfect. But we'll see.

    13. JSJay Shetty29:51

        Yeah.

    14. AHAlex Honnold29:51

        So far, so far I'm responding well and feel really strong, and yeah, this is great. But we'll see.

    15. JSJay Shetty29:55

        I love hearing that, man.

    16. AHAlex Honnold29:56

        Yeah.

    17. JSJay Shetty29:56

        Yeah, no, it, I'm excited to see it. Like, I-

    18. AHAlex Honnold29:58

        Yeah

    19. JSJay Shetty29:58

        ... I'm so, I'm so thrilled. It's, to do it live... is just, you know, you're giving us a real treat. Like, I think, you know-

    20. AHAlex Honnold30:06

        It's interesting though because, like, for me, the live thing doesn't... If anything, it makes it more chill. Because normally when you shoot a documentary, you go and you do the thing, and then you have to go back and film on it, and you have to shoot pickups and shoot audio, and, like, do all this extra work basically. And so, you know, it's this tremendous amount of effort. But for the live event, I'm kind of like, "I'm gonna go and I'm gonna do it, and then I'm gonna fly home and I'm done." [laughs]

    21. JSJay Shetty30:27

        [laughs]

    22. AHAlex Honnold30:27

        Like, it's totally amazing.

    23. JSJay Shetty30:28

        Yeah.

    24. AHAlex Honnold30:28

        It's like as soon as I do the climb, I'm totally done.

    25. JSJay Shetty30:30

        Yeah.

    26. AHAlex Honnold30:31

        I'm like, "This is-"

    27. JSJay Shetty30:31

        No, but I'm saying for us it's more fun because we get to be there with you.

    28. AHAlex Honnold30:34

        Yeah, yeah.

    29. JSJay Shetty30:34

        Yeah.

    30. AHAlex Honnold30:35

        But I just don't, you know... I basically don't totally care [laughs]
13. 33:03 – 34:42

    Being Intentional About the Risks You Take

    1. JSJay Shetty33:03

       Like, in driving for example-

    2. AHAlex Honnold33:04

       Mm

    3. JSJay Shetty33:04

       ... and, and texting and, you know, all that kinda stuff, or drink driving or whatever it may be.

    4. AHAlex Honnold33:08

       Yeah, drinking and driving, uh, to me is the thing. People are always like, "Oh, climbing seems dangerous," and you're like, well, the thing with climbing is at least you're choosing the risks that you're taking, and obviously I'm training for them, I'm preparing for them. You know, I have, I have, like, imagery of the building at home so I can visualize the moves. You know, like, there's a lot that goes into it. Whereas people go out and party on a Friday night, and then they drive home and they're like, "Whatevs, you know? It's just a Friday, I'm partying."

    5. JSJay Shetty33:30

       Yeah.

    6. AHAlex Honnold33:30

       And you're like, well, those, you're taking a tremendous amount of risk sort of unintentionally.

    7. JSJay Shetty33:34

       Yeah.

    8. AHAlex Honnold33:34

       And I'm like-

    9. JSJay Shetty33:35

       Same with texting and driving too.

    10. AHAlex Honnold33:35

        Yeah, I mean, and those are the types of things where you're like, uh, you know. It's like if you're not choosing to take those risks, uh, I don't know. I mean, I think that's kind of worse.

    11. JSJay Shetty33:43

        Yeah. Talk to me about the visualization, because I'm such a big fan of visualization-

    12. AHAlex Honnold33:46

        Mm. Yeah, I read about it in your book [laughs]

    13. JSJay Shetty33:47

        ... as a meditation technique. And talk to me about where you just said you have a picture of the building.

    14. AHAlex Honnold33:53

        Well, yeah, so I mean, n- in rock climbing, like when I'm climbing hard routes, let's say, you always just imagine the route. You think about it, you remember the moves. Part of it is to physically remember what to do, like left hand, right hand, like drop the left hip, you know, turn the knee, things like that, like the mechanics of it. And then part of the visualization is like, what will it feel like? Particularly around free soloing, things that you're not gonna be able to practice necessarily, so some of the visualizing is just, you know, like, how will it feel to put my foot on something that's really slippery when, you know, I'm gonna die if it slips [laughs] . And so you're just kind of imagining the sensations and all that, that kinda stuff.

    15. JSJay Shetty34:25

        So you can't, as part of free soloing, you can't go and climb this building at any point in order to practice it?

    16. AHAlex Honnold34:30

        Well, no, I can go practice it with a rope.

    17. JSJay Shetty34:32

        Okay, right.

    18. AHAlex Honnold34:32

        But the thing is, you just don't know, because when you have a rope on, you don't really mind if your foot's gonna slip-

    19. JSJay Shetty34:36

        Totally

    20. AHAlex Honnold34:36

        ... or something.

    21. JSJay Shetty34:36

        Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    22. AHAlex Honnold34:37

        But then when you take the rope away, you're kind of like, well, what, is it gonna feel different? Like, I don't know.

    23. JSJay Shetty34:40

        Yeah.

    24. AHAlex Honnold34:40

        And you can't totally practice that, so you

14. 34:42 – 38:36

    Why Visualization Is a Performance Tool

    1. AHAlex Honnold34:42

       kinda have to do that mentally, just imagine it and, you know-

    2. JSJay Shetty34:44

       Yeah, so you get a sense while you're on the rope-

    3. AHAlex Honnold34:45

       Yeah

    4. JSJay Shetty34:45

       ... almost as a dress rehearsal-

    5. AHAlex Honnold34:47

       Yeah

    6. JSJay Shetty34:47

       ... feeling, and then you're having to remember that feeling-

    7. AHAlex Honnold34:50

       Yeah, and, and-

    8. JSJay Shetty34:51

       ... of, of what-

    9. AHAlex Honnold34:51

       ... and sort of imagine the potential feelings.

    10. JSJay Shetty34:53

        Yeah.

    11. AHAlex Honnold34:53

        'Cause part of the, the benefit of visualization, I think, is that you're like, what if it's humid that day? What if it's particularly dry? And, like, with the building, it's interesting because with glass and metal, uh, you know, uh, the texture's obviously really different than rock [laughs] . And so I'm not sure if I want it to be humid or if I want it to be dry. Like, with rock you normally want it to be super dry, uh, because if it's humid it's too slippery on the rock. But with a building, because it's so slippery to begin with, I think you actually want some humidity so it doesn't feel as slippery. Like, you want your skin to stick to it a little bit, and so you want, like, a little bit of dampness, but obviously you don't wetness. You don't want it to be wet, 'cause then it's really slippery. Um, so an- anyway, just thinking about stuff like that, I mean, that's all part of visualization I think. But what I was gonna say is that with, uh, with rock climbing, you know, you don't normally have footage of any of this type of stuff, so you just imagine it. You remember, you think about the climb. Um, with this building, you know, we already went and did a scout, and they were practicing the camera positions. They flew a drone up and down the building to, like, figure out the angles and all that kinda stuff. And so I never, I don't think I'd ever done this before, but I was, I kind of reached out to the production team, was kind of like, "Send me, uh, you know, selects of the whole building so I can remember all the, all the different, uh, sequences better." And so they sent me just some visuals of the building, but then they also sent me some clips of me climbing different things, and I was like, "Oh, this is actually tremendously useful [laughs] 'cause I can see, you know, how I'm doing it and what I can do better, and just..." You know, I was like, "Oh, this is great."

    12. JSJay Shetty36:08

        Yeah. I love that you use visualization as a technique though.

    13. AHAlex Honnold36:11

        Every climber does. It's a really big part of climbing.

    14. JSJay Shetty36:13

        And you're visualizing the process, the texture, the feeling-

    15. AHAlex Honnold36:16

        Everything.

    16. JSJay Shetty36:17

        Yeah.

    17. AHAlex Honnold36:17

        Yeah.

    18. JSJay Shetty36:17

        Every detail that you could possibly-

    19. AHAlex Honnold36:19

        Yeah

    20. JSJay Shetty36:19

        ... imagine or know from-

    21. AHAlex Honnold36:20

        And sometimes you're imagining, you know, the experience, like the consequences of it, or like what if you do fall? Like, um, I mean, like particularly with, with free-soloing El Cap, like with-- I've spent so long kinda working on that, I mean, I thought about like what if I fell from here or fell from there? Just because... And even though those are terrible things to visualize because it's you falling to your death in horrible ways, 'cause, uh, you know, in a lot of places falling off a mountain, it's not like a clean-- It's not like I fell, and then you hit the ground. It's like you bounce, you know, hundreds of feet or a thousand feet, and it's a disaster. And so but it's important to think about that stuff ahead of time so that when you're up there, you don't suddenly for the first time, you know, it's not like, "Oh, if I fell here, it would be horrible." It's like, no, you've already thought about that. You visualized it, you processed it, and, and you've chosen to set that aside and execute the climb anyway.

    22. JSJay Shetty37:04

        Yeah, you've already sat with the discomfort-

    23. AHAlex Honnold37:06

        Yeah

    24. JSJay Shetty37:06

        ... of that feeling in a safe environment.

    25. AHAlex Honnold37:09

        Exactly.

    26. JSJay Shetty37:09

        So now you can track that and bring that with you to this different-

    27. AHAlex Honnold37:12

        Yeah, now you don't have to think about it while you're up there.

    28. JSJay Shetty37:14

        Yeah, exactly.

    29. AHAlex Honnold37:14

        I mean, ideally, you think through all that stuff ahead of time.

    30. JSJay Shetty37:17

        Yeah.
15. 38:36 – 42:32

    Imagining the Process, Not Just the Outcome

    1. JSJay Shetty38:36

       Talk to me about that because I think that's what-- Today when we talk about manifesting and visualizing, people have this, "Visualize where you wanna live."

    2. AHAlex Honnold38:42

       Yeah, visualize success.

    3. JSJay Shetty38:43

       Right? And it's like-

    4. AHAlex Honnold38:43

       Yeah, yeah, like who cares about that?

    5. JSJay Shetty38:45

       [laughs]

    6. AHAlex Honnold38:45

       'Cause like that'll just follow. Like if that happens, great. If it doesn't, whatever.

    7. JSJay Shetty38:48

       Yeah.

    8. AHAlex Honnold38:49

       Um, yeah, it's funny, I haven't visualized that. Actually, I mean, it's not totally true because the, the, the top of the building is this incredible little spire. It's like a small little-

    9. JSJay Shetty38:56

       Oh, yes. Yes.

    10. AHAlex Honnold38:56

        It's like, it's basically the space between us.

    11. JSJay Shetty38:58

        Oh, really?

    12. AHAlex Honnold38:58

        It's just a little dome.

    13. JSJay Shetty38:59

        It's that small?

    14. AHAlex Honnold38:59

        And so you just stand on this... Yeah, you stand on this tiny little pinnacle, and it's incredible, and the view is insane. Um, but you know, I've already gone up there, like climbed up through the hatch just to like check it out and, and rappel off the side and things. And so, I mean, you know, I know it's amazing, and I know that it's gonna feel amazing to stand up there, so I haven't really like visualized that 'cause I'll just-

    15. JSJay Shetty39:16

        [laughs]

    16. AHAlex Honnold39:16

        You know, it's like when it happens, it happens.

    17. JSJay Shetty39:18

        Yeah.

    18. AHAlex Honnold39:18

        But no, you visualize the stuff that's important. But, but actually, I mean, talking about this, and you think-- I think in some ways if you're talking to like the, the layperson audience, whatever, I think maybe it's worth not framing it as visualization because, uh, you know, over the years as a climber, I've always just kind of thought of it as daydreaming. [laughs] You know? It's like... 'Cause also as a climber, you spend so much time hiking to and from cliffs, and I spend a lot of time by myself walking around, you know, in the mountains, and you just spend a lot of time daydreaming basically, like thinking about climbing. And so, you know, occasionally, like a project like this, I'll intentionally visualize where I'm like, "Okay, I'm getting ready for a thing." But basically any time I go wandering in the mountains, I spend a tremendous amount of time just thinking about... You know, like your mind's always wandering on something.

    19. JSJay Shetty40:00

        Yes.

    20. AHAlex Honnold40:00

        And mine's always wandering through climbs that you're excited about or things that you're thinking about or projects that you have, like things on the back burner that you didn't quite do that you wanna go back to. So, you know, I mean, I think it's less daunting to think of it as like, oh, when you're out for a hike or like out for a walk with your dog, you just daydream about things that matter to you. Like that is visualization.

    21. JSJay Shetty40:17

        Yes. Yes.

    22. AHAlex Honnold40:17

        You know?

    23. JSJay Shetty40:17

        Yes. I like that.

    24. AHAlex Honnold40:18

        Like you can make it more focused, and you can, you can do it more intentionally, but at the core, it's just, it's just imagining stuff.

    25. JSJay Shetty40:24

        Yes. Yes. I like that. And the truth is all of us are imagining, but most of us are imagining worst case scenario.

    26. AHAlex Honnold40:30

        [laughs] Yeah.

    27. JSJay Shetty40:30

        Like so we're imagining the meeting and going, "Oh God, I'm gonna get fired today," or you know, that, that's how we imagine this.

    28. AHAlex Honnold40:35

        I w- I wonder about that because... So I, I don't really have that so much. [laughs]

    29. JSJay Shetty40:38

        Yeah, I didn't think you did.

    30. AHAlex Honnold40:40

        Yeah. And I do kinda wonder if I'm just like just a little less neurotic than average, like as a base hardwired. You know what I mean?
16. 42:32 – 45:58

    Nature vs. Nurture: What Shapes Us Early in Life

    1. JSJay Shetty42:32

       So it's like you put, um, you put a potato in boiling water, it gets softer.

    2. AHAlex Honnold42:35

       Yeah.

    3. JSJay Shetty42:35

       You put a, a egg in boiling water, it will get har- harder.

    4. AHAlex Honnold42:38

       Egg gets harder. Yeah.

    5. JSJay Shetty42:38

       You put, uh, coffee beans in boiling water, they let out the best scent.

    6. AHAlex Honnold42:42

       Hmm.

    7. JSJay Shetty42:42

       And so there's this old story that goes which one are you? Are you a, you know, an egg, a potato, or are you a coffee bean?

    8. AHAlex Honnold42:48

       Interesting.

    9. JSJay Shetty42:48

       And so it's almost like the pressure of hot water, what does it do to you?

    10. AHAlex Honnold42:51

        Hmm.

    11. JSJay Shetty42:51

        And that's always been an interesting thing of-Do we get to choose that or are we wired that way?

    12. AHAlex Honnold42:56

        Yeah, is that-

    13. JSJay Shetty42:56

        What does that look like?

    14. AHAlex Honnold42:57

        Yeah. But I think about that stuff more now I have two little kids, and so, uh, you know, like questions of nature versus nurture, I just think about a lot more 'cause you're kind of like, you know, are we having any impact on these children? [chuckles]

    15. JSJay Shetty43:07

        Yeah.

    16. AHAlex Honnold43:07

        Like, are they just fully baked as, as is like-

    17. JSJay Shetty43:08

        How are you finding-- I'm intrigued as to how-

    18. AHAlex Honnold43:10

        Well, it's-- they're so young, it's hard to tell, but you just see so much, uh, innate in them when you're like, "You're just your own little person." And you know, there are probably things that we could do, uh, negatively to like negatively impact their development, but I don't know how much we're gonna do positively.

    19. JSJay Shetty43:24

        [laughs]

    20. AHAlex Honnold43:24

        You know what I mean? I'm kinda like-

    21. JSJay Shetty43:25

        I love that

    22. AHAlex Honnold43:25

        ... I think they're gonna be fine. But in some ways it takes away a lot of the stress of parenting, where you're just kind of like, you know, I'm not trying to like shape them into anything. Like, I think they're gonna be freaking great.

    23. JSJay Shetty43:34

        Yeah.

    24. AHAlex Honnold43:34

        We're just trying to make sure they're happy and safe and, you know, like have their material needs met and things, and let them blossom into whatever they're gonna blossom into.

    25. JSJay Shetty43:42

        Yeah.

    26. AHAlex Honnold43:42

        But we'll see. I mean, I'm just starting and I don't really know anything about parenting. [chuckles] We're just, we're just winging it.

    27. JSJay Shetty43:47

        Yeah. No. I, I remember a friend, like I, I-- we're not parents yet, but uh, I remember a friend, like they raised their kid where like their kid would be like playing with fire and like jumping up and down and running around, and it's like... And I would-- I didn't-- uh, this wa- I was much younger then and I wou- I didn't know their style, and so I would get scared when their kid was near a candle or something. They'd be like, "No, let the kid be near a candle." Like-

    28. AHAlex Honnold44:07

        Totally

    29. JSJay Shetty44:08

        ... "They'll, they'll figure it out themselves."

    30. AHAlex Honnold44:09

        Well, that's the-- yeah, we're very much like that.
17. 45:58 – 47:21

    Perfectionism, Pressure, and Letting Go

    1. JSJay Shetty45:58

       able to know what-

    2. AHAlex Honnold45:58

       Or focus on the thing that matters, like the thing that-

    3. JSJay Shetty46:00

       Yeah, and what not to waste-

    4. AHAlex Honnold46:00

       ... that you can do

    5. JSJay Shetty46:01

       ... absolutely, and what not to waste time on and, and-

    6. AHAlex Honnold46:04

       But it's taken me a long time to get there, I think.

    7. JSJay Shetty46:06

       Mm.

    8. AHAlex Honnold46:06

       You know, 'cause I think through early life you're just so hung up on like appearances and what you should be doing, what you think you ought to be, you know, whatever. And then eventually you're just kinda like, you know, I'm only good at a couple things. I should just focus on the thing I'm good at and just do it.

    9. JSJay Shetty46:18

       Yeah.

    10. AHAlex Honnold46:19

        Just... And, and just be happy doing it.

    11. JSJay Shetty46:21

        Yeah. Talk to me-- I wanted to go back. You were saying that right now you're working out, diet, sleep. Like walk me through what that routine looks like. I love, I love learning about people who live incredible lives and their different systems that they have in place to be able to pull off great feats.

    12. AHAlex Honnold46:36

        I mean, yeah, it's all normal stuff, like eat well, exercise, [chuckles] like sleep, you know?

    13. JSJay Shetty46:40

        But what are you eating? I'm intrigued. Uh, what are you eating?

    14. AHAlex Honnold46:40

        Um, yeah, so, so I'm eating, uh, vegetarian basically. Um, you know, mostly whole foods. I don't know. Like dinner last night was like tofu, roasted, uh, uh, broccoli and cauliflower and, uh, some like, some purple sweet potato thing. Uh, I think that was it. Oh, and some Brussels sprouts. But it was basically just a bowl of like vegetables. And, and it, it's interesting because even like a couple months ago I would've thought of that as a sort of inadequate dinner. [chuckles] You know? But like the last several weeks I've basically just been eating like whole foods and no sugar and, and like wholesome meals, and I'm kinda like, you know, I've just kind of like adapted to it. Like this feels good and I feel great, and yeah, I'm sleeping well. And, um-

    15. JSJay Shetty47:17

        How much do you try and sleep and when do you sleep?

    16. AHAlex Honnold47:19

        Well, basically, I mean, the babies have been

18. 47:21 – 50:54

    Daily Habits That Support Peak Performance

    1. AHAlex Honnold47:21

       waking up. Actually our, uh, we have like a-- they'll, they'll be two and four in February, so right now it's like one and three quarters or whatever. Um, but for whatever reason just waking up in the middle of the night a bunch right now, um, which is like a new, I think it's like a developmental phase, you know? It's like she just suddenly made a leap and she's saying way more, but you're like, "Gotta go back to sleep," you know? [chuckles]

    2. JSJay Shetty47:39

       [laughs]

    3. AHAlex Honnold47:39

       Like, oh man. Um, but so-

    4. JSJay Shetty47:41

       That's gonna climb that

    5. AHAlex Honnold47:41

       ... we, we basically sleep from like 10:00 to 6:00 every day.

    6. JSJay Shetty47:44

       Ah, yes.

    7. AHAlex Honnold47:44

       Like roughly eight hours every day.

    8. JSJay Shetty47:45

       Yeah.

    9. AHAlex Honnold47:45

       But then sometimes a little more or less, but then-

    10. JSJay Shetty47:48

        Yes

    11. AHAlex Honnold47:48

        ... you, you know, the other night I got up at 3:00 and then just like made a bottle for my baby and like-

    12. JSJay Shetty47:54

        Yeah

    13. AHAlex Honnold47:54

        ... and did a whole nother bedtime for her at 3:00 in the morning. Like basically like read her a story and put her back to bed.

    14. JSJay Shetty47:58

        Yeah.

    15. AHAlex Honnold47:58

        And it was kinda like, huh, what an unusual night.

    16. JSJay Shetty48:00

        Yeah.

    17. AHAlex Honnold48:01

        Um, so you know, I can't take it too seriously. It's not like, um-

    18. JSJay Shetty48:05

        Sure.

    19. AHAlex Honnold48:05

        But you know, it's, it's enough though. I mean, we're sleeping well.

    20. JSJay Shetty48:08

        And vegetarian over a meat diet because?

    21. AHAlex Honnold48:11

        Um, I'd always cared more about the environmental impact, like just the, the, the impact on the Earth. But I also feel like it's a little cleaner. And I'm not like super, uh, uptight about it. Like I'll eat fish and, um, in general I'll eat meat if it's gonna be wasted. You know, if like somebody has a serving, I'm like, oh, well it's better than throwing it away. Um, but I just don't buy meat and I don't really do dairy. Um, I think I'm sort of-

    22. JSJay Shetty48:32

        Do you find that affects your performance too?

    23. AHAlex Honnold48:34

        I, I think I'm kind of lactose intolerant a little bit, and so I'm kinda like it's probably not like the best.

    24. JSJay Shetty48:38

        Yeah.

    25. AHAlex Honnold48:38

        But, um, yeah, it's just... But again, it's also better for the Earth, and I'm kinda like, ah, this seems better.

    26. JSJay Shetty48:44

        Right. Interesting.

    27. AHAlex Honnold48:45

        The main thing for me is not eating desserts.

    28. JSJay Shetty48:46

        [chuckles]

    29. AHAlex Honnold48:46

        Like not eating extra sugar. It just keeps everything going.

    30. JSJay Shetty48:49

        Yeah. Do you have a sweet tooth?
19. 50:54 – 53:48

    Bringing an Adventurous Mindset Into Everyday Life

    1. AHAlex Honnold50:54

       would be the biggest thing I'd ever do. Like I knew... I mean, I didn't think the film would be as successful as it was, but, um, but I knew that it would be far beyond anything I'd ever done because it's, you know, it's a feature documentary and whatever. And, and I knew the climb would be insane. But at the same time, you know, the main challenge of free soloing is psychological. Like I had climbed El Cap with ropes, you know, many years before. I'd climbed it without falling off many years before. Like technically I was physically able to do it many years before. But the psychological challenge, the believing you can do it and, you know, when your life is on the line, that like, that's a, that's a bigger challenge. And so I didn't wanna build it up even bigger in my mind because you're like, the challenge is already psychological. I don't need to like pile on and make it even harder. And so a big part of my strategy with El Cap was to make it part of my normal year. And so like right after I free soloed El Cap, I went on this expedition to Alaska, um, which is like a normal, as a professional climber, you go on trips to places, you try to climb new walls, whatever. And so it allowed me to look at my Yosemite season that year as kind of building up for Alaska. And actually, and the Alaska trip was because I went on an expedition later in that year to Antarctica, and I was kinda like, "Oh, I haven't been on skis in a while. It'd be nice to like do some glacier travel and climb some big granite spires on snow, 'cause it'll be good for Antarctica." And so I was kinda like, oh, Yosemite season is building up for Alaska, which is building up for Antarctica. And so it took a lot of the pressure off having to achieve on El Cap or whatever, because I'm like, oh, either way, this is practice for these other things coming up. And I mean, I knew that the other things don't freaking matter compared to free soloing El Cap. [laughs] But you know, it's like, it's good to keep it, keep it feeling chill. And so, I mean, I've, I've always been into sort of stacking my goals in that way and trying to make sure that you don't let them get too big. You know, it's like you keep it all... I don't know. Yeah, so the building's kinda the same way, where I'm like, obviously that's more important than some of the other things I'm working on right now, but I do have a bunch of other climbing projects that are sort of intermixed with the training, and so it keeps it all feeling mellow.

    2. JSJay Shetty52:48

       Yeah. When you, when you summit like El Cap or, or anything like that, where you, where you reach the top, how do you find you process that feeling? Like what does that feel like to you? Is it gratifying? Do you experience it?

    3. AHAlex Honnold53:02

       Yeah, no, I'm psyched.

    4. JSJay Shetty53:03

       Yeah.

    5. AHAlex Honnold53:03

       I'll be like, "This is amazing."

    6. JSJay Shetty53:04

       Yeah.

    7. AHAlex Honnold53:05

       I mean, with El Cap, it was such a long...

    8. JSJay Shetty53:07

       [laughs]

    9. AHAlex Honnold53:07

       And it was so on the edge of what I thought was possible, and so it meant a lot, you know, it meant a lot to me. I'd put so much into it, and the pressure with the film crew and all this stuff, I mean, it was insane. So it definitely, I was like, "This is, this is amazing." Um, I mean, the building too, I'm sure I'll stand at the top and be like, "This is awesome." I'll be so psyched. But then, you know, I'll take the elevator down [laughs] and be like, "Okay, what, what a day." I'll be like, "What a joy." I'm sure I'll be glowing, like until I'm back home, but then as soon as I fly back to, to my home in Las Vegas, I'll be back to normal climbing projects, like things that... 'Cause I wouldn't be at all surprised... Basically, there's several other things I'm trying to do at home as a sort of build-up and training for the, the building, and I wouldn't be surprised if I don't manage to do any or all of them [laughs] . You know, we'll see which things I manage to do. And

20. 53:48 – 56:49

    Handling the Pressure Before a Defining Moment

    1. AHAlex Honnold53:48

       so as soon as I finish the building, I'll just be back to try to finish my training goals, basically.

    2. JSJay Shetty53:51

       Yeah. Is it, is it right, you were talking about waking up and the baby being awake at night? Is this the first time you're doing a climb as a father and a husband?

    3. AHAlex Honnold53:59

       No.

    4. JSJay Shetty53:59

       No?

    5. AHAlex Honnold53:59

       No, it's not. I mean, I've done a handful of things-

    6. JSJay Shetty54:01

       Yeah

    7. AHAlex Honnold54:01

       ... that are, that are cutting edge-

    8. JSJay Shetty54:02

       Yeah

    9. AHAlex Honnold54:02

       ... uh, with the kids. Actually, I did kind of my hardest like free solo to date for The Spear. Like it'll be this cool, like insane... It was a bunch of the same crew from Free Solo, so it's like the same, same co-directors and stuff, and so it was really fun to get everyone back together, and we, and I free soloed this wall in, in, uh, Jordan, in the Middle East. It's like 1,200 foot sandstone wall. And it was probably, I told my wife it's like probably top 10 hardest things I've ever soloed, but she was like, "Top 10's like kinda hard," because I've actually done way more than, than what's in the public, like on, on film. Um, 'cause just building up to El Cap, I did like a ton of things that were, that are very hard. And so this thing for The Spear, that was probably the first thing I've done with kids where I was like, this is actually kinda cutting edge and, and pretty hard. And before doing it, I was kind of like, is this gonna be different? You know, like am I gonna be up there thinking about my kids, being like, "Oh God, this is so scary now"? But I got up there and I was like, "This is awesome." I was so psyched. It's, it's this amazing wall. It's a really classic route. It's, it's famous and it's, uh, it's, it's really high quality. And so I was just up there being like, "This is so amazing," and I felt great, and I was like, "Wow."

    10. JSJay Shetty55:01

        So wait, you can experience that in the Sphere in Vegas?

    11. AHAlex Honnold55:04

        Uh, in, in next sp- next fall, I think. So like a year or something.

    12. JSJay Shetty55:07

        Oh, that's so cool.

    13. AHAlex Honnold55:07

        Yeah.

    14. JSJay Shetty55:07

        That's awesome.

    15. AHAlex Honnold55:08

        Yeah. We'll, we'll see, uh-I, I think it's hard to film for something like that [chuckles]

    16. JSJay Shetty55:12

        Yeah. Yeah

    17. AHAlex Honnold55:12

        You know? It's hard to shoot on these crazy cameras, like a-

    18. JSJay Shetty55:14

        That place is amazing though

    19. AHAlex Honnold55:15

        ... so we'll see what, how it turns out. But in theory, next, uh, next fall there'll be a thing like that.

    20. JSJay Shetty55:20

        Yeah. I just wanna-

    21. AHAlex Honnold55:20

        This, this might all need to get cut, we'll see [laughs]

    22. JSJay Shetty55:22

        Yeah, yeah. We will. Yeah, we can cut it.

    23. AHAlex Honnold55:22

        But like, I don't know. Ask someone who's smarter than me.

    24. JSJay Shetty55:24

        Yeah, yeah.

    25. AHAlex Honnold55:25

        [laughs]

    26. JSJay Shetty55:25

        I just, uh, I just, I just went to watch Wizard of Oz [laughs] then.

    27. AHAlex Honnold55:28

        Oh, is it cool?

    28. JSJay Shetty55:29

        But it was insane.

    29. AHAlex Honnold55:30

        Yeah, I've heard it's really cool.

    30. JSJay Shetty55:30

        It was incredible. I was so blown away by it, and I can't imagine, you know-
21. 56:49 – 58:54

    The Climb That Redefined Human Potential

    1. AHAlex Honnold56:49

       a lot of things like that over the years.

    2. JSJay Shetty56:50

       Wow. Wow. Do you, um, do you have conversations with your wife before you decide what you're gonna climb and stuff, or is this kind of like, "This is what I'm doing, and..."

    3. AHAlex Honnold56:57

       Yeah, for... No, for the most part. I mean, um, when we first met, I mean, like if you've seen the free-

    4. JSJay Shetty57:02

       Yes

    5. AHAlex Honnold57:02

       ... film Free Solo-

    6. JSJay Shetty57:03

       Yes, yes

    7. AHAlex Honnold57:03

       ... it all sounds pretty, you know, like, like I don't care at all about her feelings, and, and I think that's gives a slightly wrong impression just because at that point I'd been dreaming about El Cap for, you know, eight years or something, and then I'd met, uh... I actually met my now wife, uh, at the exact same time that we started filming for the, the documentary. So we filmed for sort of two years to make that documentary, and so that was the first two years of our relationship, and you know, I was like, "Oh, she's amazing, and this is great," but, you know, it's some random person I met six months ago.

    8. JSJay Shetty57:30

       [laughs]

    9. AHAlex Honnold57:30

       Like it's not gonna get in the way of a life dream.

    10. JSJay Shetty57:32

        [laughs]

    11. AHAlex Honnold57:32

        You know? But now it's totally different because now I'm like, oh, we've been together 10 years. We have kids.

    12. JSJay Shetty57:36

        Yeah.

    13. AHAlex Honnold57:36

        We have a life together. Like, you know, I live with m- like my in-laws, and then, you know, it's all, um, it's all much more tightly woven [laughs]

    14. JSJay Shetty57:43

        Yeah

    15. AHAlex Honnold57:43

        ... and so her opinion matters a lot more for projects now.

    16. JSJay Shetty57:46

        Yeah. How, how did you know she was the right person?

    17. AHAlex Honnold57:48

        I don't know. She's just, she's so great.

    18. JSJay Shetty57:50

        [laughs]

    19. AHAlex Honnold57:50

        I mean, um, I think when I proposed there was, uh, I said something along the lines of, uh, you know, like, "This is great. Can we just keep doing this forever?" You know?

    20. JSJay Shetty57:58

        Yeah. That's awesome.

    21. AHAlex Honnold57:58

        Like, was like why not, uh... Yeah. Yeah, I've never been into the big, like, romantic gesture type thing, 'cause I kinda think the day-to-day life is... Like one of the things that I think is great in our, in our relate- Like we have what we call sleepovers at night. Like basically w- at night we always chitchat for a really long time, um, which is detrimental to our sleep.

    22. JSJay Shetty58:16

        [laughs]

    23. AHAlex Honnold58:16

        But it's like, but whenever we go to bed we always have like, you know, we chitchat for a while.

    24. JSJay Shetty58:18

        Yeah.

    25. AHAlex Honnold58:19

        And I'm like, "Oh, that's so nice," you know? It's like you wanna have a, a buddy that you chitchat with your whole life. I'm kinda like, "I don't know. I'm gonna do that forever."

    26. JSJay Shetty58:25

        I love that, man.

    27. AHAlex Honnold58:26

        Yeah.

    28. JSJay Shetty58:26

        Do, does she find obviously what you do inspiring? Like what, how does she... What's her take on it? Like if she was here right now and I was like, "Describe what Alex does," like how it feels for her, what would she say?

    29. AHAlex Honnold58:35

        I don't know.

    30. JSJay Shetty58:35

        [laughs]
22. 58:54 – 1:03:31

    What Truly Matters When Choosing a Life Partner

    1. AHAlex Honnold58:54

       give them my number." And so afterward I was like signing books, and she just gave me her number, and I was like, "Cool." And so I texted her, and then, uh-

    2. JSJay Shetty59:00

       [laughs] That's amazing

    3. AHAlex Honnold59:00

       ... and now we're married, you know? [laughs] Long, long story short.

    4. JSJay Shetty59:02

       That's awesome.

    5. AHAlex Honnold59:03

       Yeah. Yeah. It's cool. But, um, yeah, so obviously she must care a little bit, but she, I don't think she cares that much. [laughs]

    6. JSJay Shetty59:08

       Is she a climber too, you said?

    7. AHAlex Honnold59:09

       Yeah, yeah. No, she's, uh, she basically kinda started climbing at roughly the same time that we... She had just started when we met, and so now it's been 10 years, and, you know, now she's quite a good climber.

    8. JSJay Shetty59:17

       Wow. That's awesome.

    9. AHAlex Honnold59:19

       Yeah.

    10. JSJay Shetty59:19

        That's amazing. Will you ever do a climb together?

    11. AHAlex Honnold59:21

        Well, we climb together all the time.

    12. JSJay Shetty59:22

        Yeah.

    13. AHAlex Honnold59:22

        Not like extreme climbing.

    14. JSJay Shetty59:24

        Yes. Yeah, yeah.

    15. AHAlex Honnold59:24

        Um, but yeah, we try to climb together as much as possible. Now with the two kids, it's a little harder for us to go out together.

    16. JSJay Shetty59:30

        Yeah.

    17. AHAlex Honnold59:30

        But then now, I mean, sometimes we go on sort of climbing trips as a family, and then the kids just run around the forest and play, and we boulder. You know, it's like we're gonna do a family bouldering trip in France, uh, in the springtime to like a really famous bouldering destination. But it's amazing for the kids, 'cause it's basically a sandy forest with, you know, nice soft trees and sand everywhere, and so the kids just roam and play.

    18. JSJay Shetty59:49

        Mm.

    19. AHAlex Honnold59:49

        It's like really cool.

    20. JSJay Shetty59:50

        Is there a part of the world that you're fascinated by that you haven't visited yet?

    21. AHAlex Honnold59:54

        Actually, Southeast Asia. I've-- I mean, I wouldn't say I'm fascinated, but I've never been. I've always wanted to, and there's tons of climbing, but it's also kinda hot and humid. [laughs]

    22. JSJay Shetty1:00:01

        [laughs]

    23. AHAlex Honnold1:00:01

        And so, uh, I'm sure I'll go at some point. But honestly, uh, I've, I traveled quite a lot before, before I had a wife and kids. Uh, you know, I was kind of abroad like maybe three months a year or something, uh, for climbing trips, and uh, so a lot of that now I'm kinda waiting until the kids are a little older, 'cause I'm like, if I'm gonna travel, I wanna take the kids, and I want them to be old enough to remember it and have a real life experience. So I think in general our traveling is all a little bit on hold until the kids are older, and then I'm like really excited to show them some of these places.

    24. JSJay Shetty1:00:30

        Do you believe your work has a message or a mission beyond personal joy and fulfillment and thriving and play, or, or is it truly that is it?

    25. AHAlex Honnold1:00:42

        I mean, not that big of a mission. I mean, s- so part of the reason that I started the Honnold Foundation a long time ago, I mean, I started this foundation that supports community solar projects around the world, was that, you know, I had a lot of work opportunities that I didn't necessarily need to take, because I didn't need the money, because I was living by myself in a van. And I was kinda like, you know, I was like, "I don't, I don't need to make this." Uh, I mean, this, a lot of this stemmed from one specific experience where I shot this, uh, commercial for a bank, and, uh, you know, and, and they wound up airing the commercial a ton, and this wasn't even like I w- it wasn't even for me as like a famous climber or anything. It was like SAG rates or whatever, like Screen Actors Guild, so I just signed the normal contract. But they wound up using the ad a, a ton. It aired all over the world. And so I made... you know, like six figures or something off of like a day and a half of shooting. And I was like, "Well, that- there's no justice in that," you know?

    26. JSJay Shetty1:01:27

        [laughs]

    27. AHAlex Honnold1:01:27

        And the thing is, is that it was work that I would've done for free because it's like you're going out with your friends and you're climbing in some spire and they're shooting with a helicopter and it's supercr- you know, it's crazy. It's like super fun work. You're like, "This is a total life experience" that you would do as a rest day anyway. You know what I mean? 'Cause, like, when you're shooting a commercial like that, it's not like you're training. It's not like it's hard, and so you're doing it as a rest day, and you're like, "Well, either I would've sat in my van and read all day, or I can go, like, climb this spire with my friend with a helicopter, and it's insane." So you're like obviously you wanna do things like that, but I was kinda like I don't need the money from it. I don't, like, need to do this type of work. And so part of starting my foundation was kinda like, well, it's a nice way to funnel all that, you know, sort of funnel the- the notoriety, the f- the f- you know, the- the money, like, all that stuff can just go into something that seems slightly more useful.

    28. JSJay Shetty1:02:10

        Yeah.

    29. AHAlex Honnold1:02:10

        Because I like saying yes to those types of opportunities, but it's like-- but it feels kinda s- you know, it's not like I'm saving up for a yacht, you know? Like, I don't, I don't need that. And so it's nice to have, like, a reason to- to funnel it all into something.

    30. JSJay Shetty1:02:22

        Yeah. That's-
23. 1:03:31 – 1:06:07

    What They're Doing at Planet Visionaries

    1. AHAlex Honnold1:03:31

       the ocean. And so interviewing people like her, uh, you know, they're just like part of this whole, whole world. And then occasionally I interview folks, um, like I've interviewed a few, uh, like grantee partners from the Honnold Foundation, like some of the organizations that we've supported, uh, doing community solar around the world. I've interviewed a few of them just to highlight the type of projects that they're doing and, and why, why those types of projects matter. Um, I mean, we're kinda always looking for good guests if you know, if you know somebody.

    2. JSJay Shetty1:03:56

       Absolutely, yeah. I was actually d- because I, uh, became friendly with Munia recently from Rolex.

    3. AHAlex Honnold1:04:01

       Mm. Mm-hmm.

    4. JSJay Shetty1:04:01

       And she was telling me about the show and everything that they were trying to do with it, and so I actually-- there's, there's a guest. I always-- I, his name escapes me, but I met him recently, and he was fascinating, so I'll have to, I'll have to connect you.

    5. AHAlex Honnold1:04:10

       Oh, yeah, tell me.

    6. JSJay Shetty1:04:11

       Yeah, he, uh... I thought of him to Munia too, and I was like, "Oh, I'm gonna see Alex, so I'll just tell him when I see him."

    7. AHAlex Honnold1:04:16

       Yeah, we, yeah, we were doing, um, you know, the first season or two as, like, Rolex ambassadors and things like that, and then you're kinda like, "Well, there are only so many." [laughs] And it's like, and so you started, like, broadening it out a little bit. We're kinda like really anybody who's doing inspiring work protecting the planet-

    8. JSJay Shetty1:04:29

       Yes

    9. AHAlex Honnold1:04:29

       ... uh-

    10. JSJay Shetty1:04:29

        Yeah

    11. AHAlex Honnold1:04:29

        ... is worth... I mean, and many of the, the guests that I talk to, it's like it's interesting 'cause they're doing conservation in a slightly different way or, you know, a slightly different approach. I don't know. I like to think of the interviews as, like, kinda mini little TED Talks or something where it's like what's the little nugget that you're trying to give to the audience? Like-

    12. JSJay Shetty1:04:45

        Yeah

    13. AHAlex Honnold1:04:45

        ... how, like, in what way can they see the world differently as a result of having listened to this? So I don't know. It's, it's, it's pretty fun, fun interviews.

    14. JSJay Shetty1:04:53

        Yeah.

    15. AHAlex Honnold1:04:53

        I mean, as you know.

    16. JSJay Shetty1:04:55

        Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Uh, yeah, I'd love to. I'd love to. Um, I wanted to ask you, uh, Alex, I wanted to share one more thing, but I'm gonna wait for it to come through actually, 'cause I believe we have this. So I'm just waiting for it if now's a good time.

    17. SPSpeaker1:05:11

        Flying in.

    18. JSJay Shetty1:05:11

        Okay. Thank you so much, Vij. Thank you.

    19. AHAlex Honnold1:05:14

        Wow.

    20. JSJay Shetty1:05:14

        Um-

    21. AHAlex Honnold1:05:15

        This is so pro.

    22. JSJay Shetty1:05:16

        [laughs]

    23. AHAlex Honnold1:05:16

        I'm like, I need a teleprompter.

    24. JSJay Shetty1:05:17

        [laughs]

    25. AHAlex Honnold1:05:17

        I'm like, where's my...

    26. SPSpeaker1:05:18

        [laughs]

    27. JSJay Shetty1:05:18

        So we had to do it for moments like this. So, uh, Alex, we, you know, we were so excited about what you're doing, and, you know, as I said, I'm such a fan from before that it's, it's really a joy to learn. It's-- I find it so refreshing when I sit with someone who kinda bursts every myth that you have about the thing, right? Like, I think we all have certain... It's like what you said, the convers- the questions you usually get asked or the kind of hype that's built up around this is how this person breaks through fear and what they do. And then when I sit with you, I'm like, "Oh, I love how the way you approach it is flow, is play, is real, is life-

    28. AHAlex Honnold1:05:58

        Mm

    29. JSJay Shetty1:05:58

        ... is joy, is," you know, and, and that's not what I would know or anticipate if I didn't sit with you deeply and have a-

    30. AHAlex Honnold1:06:04

        Totally
24. 1:06:07 – 1:14:10

    A Letter for Alex

    1. JSJay Shetty1:06:07

       Yeah.

    2. AHAlex Honnold1:06:07

       Yeah.

    3. JSJay Shetty1:06:07

       And, and I love that it isn't. Like, you know-

    4. AHAlex Honnold1:06:09

       Yeah

    5. JSJay Shetty1:06:09

       ... it's beautiful when your, when your bubble gets burst and the myth breaks because you get to understand a human on a deeper level. And so we'd reached out to, uh, your mentor, Tommy-

    6. AHAlex Honnold1:06:19

       Hmm

    7. JSJay Shetty1:06:19

       ... uh, who'd sent a letter for you.

    8. AHAlex Honnold1:06:21

       Tommy-

    9. JSJay Shetty1:06:22

       Yeah

    10. AHAlex Honnold1:06:22

        ... sent a letter?

    11. JSJay Shetty1:06:22

        Yes.

    12. AHAlex Honnold1:06:23

        Oh my goodness.

    13. JSJay Shetty1:06:24

        Uh-

    14. AHAlex Honnold1:06:24

        Okay

    15. JSJay Shetty1:06:24

        ... and-

    16. AHAlex Honnold1:06:25

        Okay.

    17. JSJay Shetty1:06:25

        Would you like to read it or would you like me to read it out loud? What would you prefer?

    18. AHAlex Honnold1:06:28

        Uh, what's better for you? You should read it.

    19. JSJay Shetty1:06:30

        It's, it's for you-

    20. AHAlex Honnold1:06:31

        You should read it

    21. JSJay Shetty1:06:31

        ... so I'll read it to you.

    22. AHAlex Honnold1:06:32

        Yeah, yeah.

    23. JSJay Shetty1:06:32

        Yeah.

    24. AHAlex Honnold1:06:32

        Yeah.

    25. JSJay Shetty1:06:32

        So he says-

    26. AHAlex Honnold1:06:33

        All right.

    27. JSJay Shetty1:06:33

        And all we asked him was for a letter for you because you were coming on the show, so.

    28. AHAlex Honnold1:06:36

        Oh, well, how-- I'm-

    29. JSJay Shetty1:06:37

        So d-

    30. AHAlex Honnold1:06:38

        I'm already hor- Do I need to leave? [laughs] I feel like I need to leave. I'm like deeply uncomfortable.
25. 1:14:10 – 1:17:42

    Alex on Final Five

    1. AHAlex Honnold1:14:10

       I will have spent years, literally years, failing on something, and then I'll do it once, which will represent about, you know, 13 minutes of perfo- high performance activity where I, like, try really hard. It might even be less than that. I'm not sure how long it takes to climb, but it's, like, in the minutes. And then after, you know, years of failure, I'll have six minutes of success, and then I'll move on to the next thing. [laughs]

    2. JSJay Shetty1:14:28

       Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

    3. AHAlex Honnold1:14:29

       It's like ... So as a climber, it's like you don't really define it as success and failure 'cause you literally, you spend all your time failing.

    4. JSJay Shetty1:14:34

       Yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Again, uh, the exposure therapy is-

    5. AHAlex Honnold1:14:37

       Yeah

    6. JSJay Shetty1:14:37

       ... is real.

    7. AHAlex Honnold1:14:37

       It's like you're just always failing.

    8. JSJay Shetty1:14:38

       Yeah.

    9. AHAlex Honnold1:14:39

       But that's the whole point. The whole point is to go out and try things that are hard for you, so by that definition, you're not failing. You're just going climbing.

    10. JSJay Shetty1:14:44

        Yeah.

    11. AHAlex Honnold1:14:44

        Like, climbing is failing. [laughs]

    12. JSJay Shetty1:14:45

        Yeah. Question number three, what's something that you used to value that you don't value anymore?

    13. AHAlex Honnold1:14:51

        It's hard to say. I mean, maybe, like, the, the public acclaim to some extent. I think, you know, when you're alone in your van, you're kind of like, "I just wanna, like, be known," basically so you can get laid. [laughs] You're kind of like, "Oh, I just wanna meet somebody," whatever. And then once you actually have some of that, you're like, "Ah, I don't really need all that." But-

    14. JSJay Shetty1:15:07

        Yeah

    15. AHAlex Honnold1:15:07

        ... that's what I'm-

    16. JSJay Shetty1:15:07

        How long did you spend in that van?

    17. AHAlex Honnold1:15:10

        Um, I think I lived in the van 12 years. [laughs]

    18. JSJay Shetty1:15:11

        12 years-

    19. AHAlex Honnold1:15:12

        Yeah

    20. JSJay Shetty1:15:12

        ... on your own in a van?

    21. AHAlex Honnold1:15:13

        I mean, two different vans, and ... Yeah. I mean, I had some girlfriends on and off and various things, and, um ... Yeah. But basically lived in the van from maybe 20 to 30. Yeah, m- maybe a little more than that.

    22. JSJay Shetty1:15:21

        Were you happy then?

    23. AHAlex Honnold1:15:22

        Oh, yeah. It's great. But I just knew that I wouldn't wanna do that my whole life.

    24. JSJay Shetty1:15:26

        What was it that made you happy then but knew it wasn't what you wanted to do?

    25. AHAlex Honnold1:15:29

        Oh, living in a van is amazing when all you're trying to do is climb at your, at your limit. But barring even the obvious, like, you'll lose motivation, you just don't ca- ... You know, after 10 or 20 years of doing something nonstop full tilt, you're like, "You know, do I need to do another 20 years of that?"

    26. JSJay Shetty1:15:45

        Yeah.

    27. AHAlex Honnold1:15:45

        Um, and I knew that one day I'd want a family and, you know ... It's like my aspiration is to die at 80 with grandkids around me, and it's hard to do that if you live alone in a van.

    28. JSJay Shetty1:15:53

        Mm. Is that, is that really the dream?

    29. AHAlex Honnold1:15:55

        Yeah. Yeah, I think so. That's the way some of my grandparents died, and I'm like, "That's a great way to go."

    30. JSJay Shetty1:15:59

        Mm.

Episode duration: 1:17:42