Alex Hormozi: How To Make So Much Money You Question The Meaning Of It

1. 0:00 – 0:40

   Intro

   1. SPSpeaker0:00

      You can build something very big in about five to seven years, and the problem is most people spend that same five to seven years reliving the same thirty days over and over again. You have to stay in that painful place. Staying in the pain is what gives you the catalyst to learn how to get out of pain.

   2. SPSpeaker0:17

      Please welcome a serial entrepreneur, bestselling author, and the mind behind a $100 million business portfolio, Alex Hormozi.

   3. JSJay Shetty0:27

      What's that number one misconception you hear when people are thinking about building a business and you go, "That's the issue?"

   4. SPSpeaker0:32

      I think they conflate sequence. A lot of people who are wanting to make money believe that the making money comes from investing. Investing is the last thing

2. 0:40 – 2:10

   Get Clear on the Exact Actions That Drive Success

   1. SPSpeaker0:40

      you do, not the first thing you do.

   2. JSJay Shetty0:43

      How do you get over the block of, "I don't wanna work for free"?

   3. SPSpeaker0:45

      I actually think it's entitlement. You're not working for free. You're learning and then you're earning.

   4. JSJay Shetty0:50

      Should you do what you love for money and love what you do?

   5. SPSpeaker0:53

      I think this is big myth number two.

   6. JSJay Shetty0:56

      People fail not because there's some magical list nobody has. They fail because it's an obvious list nobody does.

   7. SPSpeaker1:04

      It's the obvious list. If you were trying to get in shape, you know you should eat less and you should move more. You already know what you're supposed to do. The question is why you aren't doing it.

   8. JSJay Shetty1:12

      What do you think is the number one emotion that people don't know how to control that leads to failure?

   9. SPSpeaker1:18

      Fear.

   10. SPSpeaker1:21

       The number one health and wellness podcast.

   11. SPSpeaker1:23

       Jay Shetty.

   12. SPSpeaker1:24

       Jay Shetty.

   13. SPSpeaker1:25

       The one, the only Jay Shetty.

   14. JSJay Shetty1:29

       Alex Hormozi, I've been looking forward to this interview for a long, long time. My friends are fans. I'm a fan. And I know we were in touch like maybe even a couple of years ago now-

   15. SPSpeaker1:39

       Yeah

   16. JSJay Shetty1:39

       ... it's been, but I'm so happy to be at the holy grail of acquisition.com. I saw the big logo when I walked in. Congratulations on everything you've been up to, and I'm so glad to introduce you to my audience, some of who I'm sure follow you already and love your work, and then I'm hoping you get a ton of new fans and a ton of new people being impacted through this as well, so thank you so much for doing this.

   17. SPSpeaker2:00

       Well, thank you so much for having me. And I've been... I'd say I mirror it right back. I've-- We've been-- I've been looking forward to talking 'cause I think there's, there's so much good stuff that I think is gonna happen, so I'm very excited.

   18. JSJay Shetty2:09

       I love it.

3. 2:10 – 4:26

   Why Most People Misunderstand How to Build a Business

   1. JSJay Shetty2:10

      Alex, I wanna start with asking you something that I've been thinking about a lot when I'm talking to people today, and it's when I think about my community, my audience who's listening right now, what are you gonna unblock for them? When you... If someone read all your books-

   2. SPSpeaker2:25

      Yeah

   3. JSJay Shetty2:25

      ... listened to your podcast, listened to today's podcast-

   4. SPSpeaker2:27

      Yeah

   5. JSJay Shetty2:27

      ... what are they going to unblock that's been tripping them up, keeping them behind, or holding them back?

   6. SPSpeaker2:33

      I think they would have clarity on what actions were required to get what they wanted. And then at that point, they would only have to just think like, "Why am I d- not doing it?" Which is a separate conversation. But there's a lot of confusion, I would say, around like what are the things that are required in order to create a business, in order to create an income. I would say that I'm an objectivist, and so I just look at what are the things that are observable. And I think a lot of time people spend inside their heads trying to think about manifesting and energy and all of this stuff when it's like we gotta let people know about the stuff we have, we gotta have something to sell, and we gotta make sure that what we're charging costs less than [chuckles] than it costs to deliver it, and we try and do that as many times as we can. And so each of those pieces obviously has frameworks behind them, but they're all tied to one thing, which is just what actions are required. And that's been the single pervasive frame in my life that has made navigating reality significantly easier for me. 'Cause I was very confused coming up and I was like, "I don't know what any of this is," and I read all these self-help books and, and I felt more confused after the tenth book than I did on the first book. And, and then it was just like, "Okay, what do I have to do?" And then that is kind of what has started this journey for me.

   7. JSJay Shetty3:38

      What's that number one misconception you hear when people are thinking about building a business, making money, changing their financial situation?

   8. SPSpeaker3:46

      Yeah.

   9. JSJay Shetty3:46

      What's the number one thing you hear and you go, "That's the issue"?

   10. SPSpeaker3:49

       I think they conflate sequence is probably the, the first and biggest thing, because a lot of people who are wanting to make money believe that the making money comes from investing. And investing is the last thing you do, not the first thing you do. And so one of the things is they'll look at people who are at the end of their careers and say, "Okay, well, these guys are making all these, you know, these bets," right? "I... If I, if I just bought this meme coin or I just bought Bitcoin in twenty thirteen, I'd be super rich." But it actually doesn't take into consideration what a decision-making process like that would create, which is if you took a swing at every type of Bitcoin, because you can't just say, "I would only pick this one," you'd have to say, "I'd pick every single super long shot," it's like we probably would've lost on ninety-nine of the other bets.

   11. JSJay Shetty4:25

       Mm-hmm.

4. 4:26 – 7:41

   Is the ‘Get Rich Quick’ Model Really Possible?

   1. SPSpeaker4:26

      And so it's like we have to take it in aggregate. And so I would say making active income cool again [chuckles] , uh, rather than the passive bet and really just gambling, um, is probably the, the first thing that, that people mess up, is that they're... they somehow think that working or active income is not scalable when in reality the people who have the most money typically have tremendously high incomes, and it's because of the excess of cash flow from that income are they able now to make big swings with riskier bets that sometimes pay off and sometimes don't. But you can't take those swings unless you have more cash flow that's coming in from the things you do every day.

   2. JSJay Shetty5:00

      Do you know what? No one's ever said it that well, like from everyone I've spoken to, and I'm so glad you pointed it out because I completely agree. I have so many friends who when they saw the rise of crypto or whatever it was, jumped in with a large sum of their life savings-

   3. SPSpeaker5:17

      Yeah

   4. JSJay Shetty5:18

      ... because they heard of a friend of a friend of a friend-

   5. SPSpeaker5:20

      Yeah

   6. JSJay Shetty5:20

      ... who'd made a killing.

   7. SPSpeaker5:22

      Yeah.

   8. JSJay Shetty5:22

      Put it all in there. A week later, it dropped by like 10K. They pulled it all out.

   9. SPSpeaker5:28

      Yeah.

   10. JSJay Shetty5:28

       The next week it went up double.

   11. SPSpeaker5:30

       [laughs]

   12. JSJay Shetty5:30

       Like, and, and it was just a mess-

   13. SPSpeaker5:32

       Yeah

   14. JSJay Shetty5:32

       ... and so many of them lost like 10, 20, 30, 40,000 pounds-

   15. SPSpeaker5:35

       Yeah

   16. JSJay Shetty5:35

       ... dollars. And it's all because you're thinking that's the way to get there.

   17. SPSpeaker5:40

       Right.

   18. JSJay Shetty5:41

       And it's cooler and it's smarter and like you're a genius.

   19. SPSpeaker5:43

       Yeah, right.

   20. JSJay Shetty5:44

       If you... And you're right. Actually, everyone I know that's made amazing money on any of that-

   21. SPSpeaker5:48

       Yeah

   22. JSJay Shetty5:48

       ... already had tons of money, and it was play money for them.

   23. SPSpeaker5:52

       Yeah.

   24. JSJay Shetty5:52

       So it just changed into this. So what, what's happening there? Why is it that we've been led down this thought process, and how do we get out of it?

   25. SPSpeaker6:00

       I mean, I think it's fundamentally the something for nothing fallacy of like, "How can I get rich quick? How can I do it really easily?" And, um, basically, the more it feels like luck is usually where you should have your first red flag. If you... I mean, I have a belief that if you control all the variables-Then you can predict the outcome. Now, we don't always control all the variables in any given situation, but the greater number of variables we control, the greater influence we have over the outcome. And if you're getting into something like this and you're like, "I actually don't even know what the variables are," then it's like you are, you are one hundred percent gambling. And so this is your life savings. Would you put it on black at the casino? Probably not. This is really not that different than that. Except, except at the casino, you have no odds at least. [chuckles]

   26. JSJay Shetty6:38

       Yeah.

   27. SPSpeaker6:38

       Right here, it's like you have no idea. And typically by the time, especially gen pop, uh, kind of retail investors find out about something, it is the peak, and it is too late. And so you have to be at the very beginning of these if you wanna be speculative, which I wholeheartedly am not a big fan of speculative investments in general because it's basically the greater fool theory, which is what they call it in the investment world, which is just like, we just keep selling to the greater and greater fool until sometimes somebody is the greatest fool of all, and then it drops, right? And so I prefer to think about instead of thinking of investments and active income, I think of it just money per unit of time, and that kind of takes out this binary or, or what I would consider a false binary of active and passive and think-- Well, and I, I feel like I can prove this pretty clearly, which is we live in time, and we collect money in that period of time. And so fundamentally, all we wanna do if we wanna increase our income is just think, "What are we earning per unit?" And this is where, again, bad piece of advice is like, "Never sell your time." It's like, okay, well, if someone gave you a billion dollars for an hour, would you not sell that? I would. [chuckles]

   28. JSJay Shetty7:37

       I would.

   29. SPSpeaker7:37

       Right? And so it's a question of how much is your time worth, and

5. 7:41 – 10:52

   The Five Emotional Stages Every Entrepreneur Goes Through

   1. SPSpeaker7:41

      then that creates a much more actionable, uh, decision-making framework of is this worth it or not? And to ladder up to the active versus passive, it's how active is it versus how passive is it? And it's my belief that nothing is passive because there's always going to be a certain amount of if you're doing it right. Let's say if you w-- you made one passive investment. If you're doing it the right way, you probably should have looked at a hundred deals, and all of that took time, and all of that takes diligence. And then after doing all this analysis, then you decide to make this investment. And so to say that it's passive, it's like it doesn't take into account all of the research that goes into ahead of time, which is absolutely still work. Now, after the investment, sure. But there's still time that you're trading. By first breaking that idea of like if for-- in order for me to get rich, it must be something that I don't trade my time for, I think is like big myth number one. So if we assume that, then we say, "Okay, I have to trade my time for money because money comes in over time. What are the things that I can trade my time for that will get me more than I'm currently getting?" Which is a much more solvable problem that also is significantly less risky. And so especially when you're trading time, we have some, and so we don't-- we really just risk the time and be like, "I w-- I never wanna... I don't wanna sell m-- I'm not a, I'm not a slave." It's like, calm down. We're-- it's a voluntary exchange. [chuckles] And if it's... And here's the thing is if you don't think the price is worth it, then don't make the trade. And that's one of the beauties of capitalism is it's two parties both saying they'll be better off. And so fundamentally, I would say the focus of the, the content and the stuff that I put out is how can I equip people with the skills so that when they trade that time, they get more for it and then continue to trade up and up and up for the rest of their careers.

   2. JSJay Shetty9:10

      Yeah. I mean, that is, that's actually such counterintuitive advice to what, what I feel has been spreading on the internet-

   3. SPSpeaker9:16

      Yeah

   4. JSJay Shetty9:16

      ... for the last two decades-

   5. SPSpeaker9:19

      [chuckles]

   6. JSJay Shetty9:19

      ... of every conversation's around passive income.

   7. SPSpeaker9:21

      Yeah.

   8. JSJay Shetty9:22

      I feel like every one of my friends is addicted-

   9. SPSpeaker9:24

      Yeah

   10. JSJay Shetty9:24

       ... to figuring out how they can make passive income.

   11. SPSpeaker9:27

       Yeah.

   12. JSJay Shetty9:27

       And those are the same people that are not making-

   13. SPSpeaker9:29

       No. [chuckles]

   14. JSJay Shetty9:30

       ... any more money than they already were.

   15. SPSpeaker9:32

       Yeah.

   16. JSJay Shetty9:32

       But it's this addiction and obsession with, "If I figure this out, then I won't have... I can quit my day job," and-

   17. SPSpeaker9:39

       Yeah

   18. JSJay Shetty9:39

       ... whatever it may be.

   19. SPSpeaker9:41

       Yeah. And I, I've had influence. So the, the... my neighbor is, um, is, he owns, uh, Panda Express. And so last time I checked, they did three point seven billion dollars in revenue, and they have about a twenty-seven percent net margin. So he took home nine hundred and thirty-five million dollars in personal income. Not investment, income. And so people see his investment portfolio, which is impressive, as you can imagine, been doing it for forty-five years. And so that starts to add up, right? [chuckles]

   20. JSJay Shetty10:04

       Yeah.

   21. SPSpeaker10:04

       But the thing is, is he can only take these kind of bigger swings or bigger bets because he has this very regular cash flow that he spent forty-five years building.

   22. JSJay Shetty10:11

       Mm-hmm.

   23. SPSpeaker10:12

       And I would say that what's interesting is that you can build something very big in about five to seven years, and the problem is that I think most people spend f- that same five to seven years reliving the same thirty days over and over again, jumping from thing to thing to thing and never actually getting the root set so that they can pay down their ignorance tax of not knowing enough. Basically, there's, I would say there's five stages that most newer entrepreneurs or people who want to pursue income go through. So the first is, um, what I call uninformed optimism. So your friend tells you about this thing they made ten grand on, and you're like, " [gasps] That sounds amazing." You're uninformed, but you're optimistic, right? And so then you get into it, and then all of a sudden you get to, uh, informed

6. 10:52 – 13:36

   Start Here to Learn the Skills That Actually Make Money

   1. SPSpeaker10:52

      pessimism. So you get in, and then you put your money in, and then it drops, and you're like, "Wow, this sucks." And then, you know, people are like, "Buy the dip." And so you're like, "Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna put more money in." And so then you get to kind of stage three, which is the valley of despair, where you're like, "Oh my God, I've lost so much money. I have no idea what's, what's going on right now." And at stage three, there's kind of a fork. And so either people then go, "Well, my other friend told me about this other thing," and they jump back to step one and go to uninformed optimism, and then they just f-- they funnel through that loop over and over again. Now, to break through that, that dip, you have to basically get to stage four, which is, um, informed optimism. So now you understand the rules of the game, you understand the variables at play, and it's not as good as you thought it was, but you at least get it. And so from there, then you can get to achievement, which is the, the fifth step. But the thing is, is that you have to stay in that third painful place because staying in the pain is what gives you the catalyst to learn how to get out of pain. And so rather than trying to pull your parachute, it's like I have to trudge through this so that it forces me to learn the individual skills, the individual variables that affect this outcome. And that means I might have to take twenty more lashings to finally get it, and then at that point, it starts to tick up.

   2. JSJay Shetty12:02

      Yeah.

   3. SPSpeaker12:02

      And then that's when you start to become more of an expert, more of a master at something.

   4. JSJay Shetty12:05

      Yeah, and if you don't sit in that pain, you're gonna keep repeating that cycle-

   5. SPSpeaker12:07

      Right

   6. JSJay Shetty12:07

      ... with something new.

   7. SPSpeaker12:08

      Yeah.

   8. JSJay Shetty12:08

      So it was crypto, then it was NFTs, then it was whatever else.

   9. SPSpeaker12:11

      Yeah.

   10. JSJay Shetty12:11

       It just keeps going round and round and round. Is that system in this new book?

   11. SPSpeaker12:13

       So this is probably for one chunk above that.

   12. JSJay Shetty12:16

       Okay, got it.

   13. SPSpeaker12:17

       Yeah. [laughs]

   14. JSJay Shetty12:17

       Got it. Got it. Got it. No, 'cause I was... I, I'm... I love the way you break down the journey that we go through in our mind.

   15. SPSpeaker12:24

       Yeah.

   16. JSJay Shetty12:24

       And you do that with multiple things because I think we don't even see it.

   17. SPSpeaker12:27

       No.

   18. JSJay Shetty12:27

       Like, that pattern you just explained-

   19. SPSpeaker12:29

       Yeah

   20. JSJay Shetty12:29

       ... is a pattern you could live for three decades. You've just saved people three decades of pain-

   21. SPSpeaker12:34

       [laughs]

   22. JSJay Shetty12:34

       ... by pointing it out and saying, "Well, this is what you're doing-

   23. SPSpeaker12:37

       Yeah

   24. JSJay Shetty12:37

       ... and here's how to shift that." And I think people make the mistake where we go, "I don't have time to learn."

   25. SPSpeaker12:42

       Right.

   26. JSJay Shetty12:43

       "So I'm gonna learn from someone who makes me feel like I can learn it in an hour."

   27. SPSpeaker12:47

       Yeah.

   28. JSJay Shetty12:47

       "And then I'm gonna do it," which still is uninformed optimism. So how do we learn? Where do we go? How do you build that time to say, "How many hours do I need to even learn about this and I'm gonna put money in it?" How would you calculate that? If someone was like, "I'm gonna put in 1,000. I'm gonna put in, uh, $10,000"-

   29. SPSpeaker13:06

       Yeah

   30. JSJay Shetty13:06

       ... how much time should they put to value that amount of money?
7. 13:36 – 23:30

   Should You Follow Your Passion for Income?

   1. SPSpeaker13:36

      sell, some sort of exchange mechanism. And then finally, we have to deliver, right? So attract, convert, deliver. Very easy. Um, well, easy to [laughs] easy to say-

   2. JSJay Shetty13:43

      Right

   3. SPSpeaker13:43

      ... harder to do, right?

   4. JSJay Shetty13:44

      Yeah.

   5. SPSpeaker13:44

      Within each of those things it's like, okay, well, how do I let k- people know about my stuff? Or even before that, what stuff do I sell, right?

   6. JSJay Shetty13:51

      Mm-hmm.

   7. SPSpeaker13:51

      And so that's where I like to think about it as people try to think, "Man, there's so many people," and th- and try to boil the ocean. Uh, like, it's impossible to try and, like, try and think, "What business could I possibly start?" Because you're trying to address the world, when it's much easier to say, "What are the problems that exist in my life?" And I kinda think about it as the three Ps. Like, most businesses come out of a passion, so something that you're just inherently interested in. They come out of a profession, so you currently exchange... Right now you have a job, whatever it is, and you get paid, maybe not as much as you want, but you do get paid, uh, for exchanging some sort of value with the business. And the third is P, which is pain, right? So there's some deep pain that sometimes you went through. So maybe it's a mom who had to figure out how to, um, create non-allergenic food for their kids, right? It's, it could be something as small as that. And so from that, those three kind of, uh, buckets is, I think, the best starting point for most people who want to start making an income. It's like, okay, well, if you're inherently interested in, in this topic, it's like, can we make... can we let people know about stuff around that topic? Can we create solutions around that stuff? Can we create services, which is where I prefer most people start. Which, to be fair, in the United States, 78% of businesses are, uh, service-based businesses, and I think it's 'cause they're the easiest to start. You just trade time for money. Very low risk. [laughs]

   8. JSJay Shetty15:00

      Yeah.

   9. SPSpeaker15:00

      Right? You either get richer or you don't, but, like, your, your base, your base is zero. [laughs] When you have a superior money model, it gives you padding to be bad at everything else.

   10. JSJay Shetty15:09

       Mm.

   11. SPSpeaker15:09

       Because you finally make more money per customer than anyone else does in your space, which means your advertising doesn't have to be as good. You don't have to be as good at sales. The offer itself might not necessarily be as good, but when you sequence these things together properly the right way, then you can unlock scale in the business. People don't really give up on their dreams. They see what it takes to get their dreams and then decide it's too expensive. I think that if we make who we become the goal rather than the thing we achieve, instead of winning once a decade, we can win every day.

   12. JSJay Shetty15:38

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   13. SPSpeaker16:29

       No. I haven't. I-

   14. JSJay Shetty16:30

       Yeah

   15. SPSpeaker16:30

       ... that would... I really want to know now. [laughs]

   16. JSJay Shetty16:32

       It'd be really fascinating. Well, yeah. The, the reason why I ask it is-

   17. SPSpeaker16:35

       Yeah

   18. JSJay Shetty16:35

       ... because I've been thinking about this for so long-

   19. SPSpeaker16:37

       Yeah

   20. JSJay Shetty16:37

       ... and I wanna go through each of those-

   21. SPSpeaker16:38

       Yeah

   22. JSJay Shetty16:38

       ... 'cause I think they're really r- I think it's really sound advice. I used to really believe that everyone should try to do what they love-

   23. SPSpeaker16:47

       Mm-hmm

   24. JSJay Shetty16:47

       ... and love what they do.

   25. SPSpeaker16:48

       Yeah.

   26. JSJay Shetty16:49

       And I've changed my mind about that. And I used to believe it very strongly probably, like, 10 years ago-

   27. SPSpeaker16:56

       Mm-hmm

   28. JSJay Shetty16:56

       ... only to then realize that that works great for the f- 1 to 10%.

   29. SPSpeaker17:02

       Yeah.

   30. JSJay Shetty17:03

       But for the majority of people, that's gonna be really, really hard.
8. 23:30 – 27:57

   How to Make Your First Dollar from Nothing

   1. JSJay Shetty23:30

      really early.

   2. SPSpeaker23:30

      Yeah.

   3. JSJay Shetty23:31

      And I got really lucky that I got to get really good at it really early.

   4. SPSpeaker23:34

      I had this mentor really early on in my career who said, "Never do what you love because then it becomes work."

   5. JSJay Shetty23:41

      Mm.

   6. SPSpeaker23:41

      And so just a completely counter take.

   7. JSJay Shetty23:43

      Yeah.

   8. SPSpeaker23:43

      And this guy was a guy who just had a normal... He had three or four stores that he ran, and he retired at age 28, and not as a gazillionaire. I think he made something in the neighborhood of probably like $30,000 or $40,000 a month, uh, you know, take home. And for 20 years, he did nothing besides collect his money once a month, and then he played golf five days a week, and he got to hang out and wa- and basically be there for the entirety of his kids, and he loved that. And that was, that he accomplished. He, he used to tell me, he's like, "I slayed the dragon of life."

   9. JSJay Shetty24:11

      [laughs]

   10. SPSpeaker24:11

       Um, and so what's interesting is that now the, that his girls are out of the house, he now is going back, and he's back into work. He's like, "Well, what am I gonna do now," right? I wholeheartedly agree with the, the, the not following your passion piece. The, the practical translation, um, might be, or at least my, my, my third myth that I would probably-

   11. JSJay Shetty24:26

       Yeah

   12. SPSpeaker24:26

       ... tack onto this as we're building these is, um, over belief in idea and under belief in execution.

   13. JSJay Shetty24:33

       Oh, yeah. So true.

   14. SPSpeaker24:34

       And so I was-- there's two elements to this. So one is that the, I think many people who are, you know, intimidated to start believe that they have to start the next Facebook, and-You know, the Zuckerbergs and the basis of a world are so incredibly rare. The vast majority of people who've gotten into business have many, many failure and m- many, many failures, many, many failed businesses, uh, that, that led them to fail into success, right? And so, uh, one is that the idea has to be this big, amazing thing, and the second is that you shouldn't-- that the idea itself is, is the success, right?

   15. JSJay Shetty25:06

       Mm-hmm.

   16. SPSpeaker25:06

       'Cause they'll share with as many people as they can, and they almost scratch the itch of starting when you haven't done anything.

   17. JSJay Shetty25:11

       Mm-hmm.

   18. SPSpeaker25:12

       I say there's basically four steps to starting a business. It's like you have to get an LLC, you take the LLC to a bank, and then you get a bank account, and then you connect that bank account to a payment processor, and then you go ask a stranger if you can do something in exchange for money. And if you do all four of those things, you have a business. That's it, [laughs] right?

   19. JSJay Shetty25:30

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

   20. SPSpeaker25:30

       And so a lot of people like spend years being like, "I'm gonna start a business one day." It's like you can do it tomorrow.

   21. JSJay Shetty25:36

       Mm-hmm.

   22. SPSpeaker25:37

       You can literally do all of this tomorrow.

   23. JSJay Shetty25:38

       Yeah.

   24. SPSpeaker25:38

       And then it's like, okay, well then how do I get the person to exchange money? It's like, well, you reach out to the people you know, right? You open your phone, you look at the 400 contacts you have there, you open up your Facebook profile, you have 300 friends, you, you look at those friends, and then you just say, "Hey," you send a personal video, send a personal text and say, "Hey, I am starting this thing. Um, this is what we're doing. This is what I'm solving. Uh, do you know anybody?" That's it. And so it's not even like you're asking your friends to buy something from you. What's interesting though is that 90% of the time, the person who responds is, "Oh, you know, you could do that for me if you want." But that just gives you the easiest way that costs zero dollars, and because we're all connected with the internet and phones, it's like the barrier to entry has never been lower than it is now.

   25. JSJay Shetty26:14

       Yeah.

   26. SPSpeaker26:14

       It's just the problem is that, um, the barrier to distraction is even lower.

   27. JSJay Shetty26:18

       What, what stood out to me there is the personal text, the video, and the email-

   28. SPSpeaker26:21

       Yeah

   29. JSJay Shetty26:22

       ... and then the fact that you're asking your friends to introduce you to people who may want it-

   30. SPSpeaker26:26

       Yeah
9. 27:57 – 32:27

   The 10 by 10 Strategy to Build Proof and Confidence

   1. SPSpeaker27:57

      point, my goal is to get people to basically shift supply demand in their favor. Like I say, the two, the two laws of business that I am the most moved by are supply and demand, which is this X right here-

   2. JSJay Shetty28:07

      Yeah, yeah, yeah

   3. SPSpeaker28:08

      ... and then leverage.

   4. JSJay Shetty28:08

      Yeah.

   5. SPSpeaker28:08

      So it's a fulcrum for leverage. And so I see those as the two biggest forces in business. And so I wanna create artificial demand for somebody who's starting out by just saying, "We'll do a lot of stuff for free." And then what happens is when you have more-- no more time to give, and if people still want you to do stuff, and you say, "Hey, I can't take any more people. If you want, you can pay." And people are like, "Yeah, that's fine." And then boom, and then you make your first sale. And so-- and you'll have confidence because you're like, "Well, I just did it 20 other times, and look at the results from those people." And, and, but, and the first one you'll be embarrassed about. The 19th one, you're like, wow, you're gonna have already paid down 60, 70% of all the mess-ups that you were gonna do. [laughs]

   6. JSJay Shetty28:43

      Yeah. Yeah.

   7. SPSpeaker28:43

      And then at that point, you're gonna start feeling good. And then from there, my way of doing it is just you just keep bumping the price by 20% every five people until eventually people start stop saying yes. [laughs]

   8. JSJay Shetty28:53

      Yeah.

   9. SPSpeaker28:53

      And then now we're like, "Okay, this is the price I can do for now." And that's basically a very seamless transition into how do I go from nothing to making my first dollar?

   10. JSJay Shetty29:01

       How do you get over the block of I don't wanna work for free?

   11. SPSpeaker29:05

       I actually think it's entitlement. I think it's believing that you deserve something for nothing. Like to f- to flip the, flip the roles in reverse, imagine somebody comes to you, they've never done anything ever in this particular space, and they say, "Hey, will you pay me to do this thing?" Would you immediately-- Now, maybe some people would be like, "Sure." Then it's a charity thing, which is different. But would you be like, "You know what? I, I really believe that this guy is the best person that I can get this problem solved from." Probably not. And so to carry some of that risk for yourself, you say, "I'm gonna front this," but if you want to not do it for free, thing number one is that you're getting educated. So like you're, you're getting free education, which I see as absolutely valuable. The second thing is that you can make terms that don't necessarily mean that it's free. Like there's the price, and then there's the terms. The terms of the agreement can be, if you do this with me, you have to give me feedback, uh, throughout the entire process, and at the end, if I do a good job, you leave a review, right? And on three different formats, and leave me a video, and leave me a, you know, a text version of it. That's now absolute-- like I'll say it differently. A business owner, they do illegally, and, [laughs] and so th- therefore they're very willing to pay people to leave them testimonials. And so if you'd be willing to pay $500 to get an amazing testimonial, then they're basically, you're-- they've paid you that $500. But I promise you, those first five, 10 reviews will make you so much more than they could ever have paid you and not given you a testimonial.

   12. JSJay Shetty30:27

       Yeah.

   13. SPSpeaker30:27

       So if we, if we flip it and say, "Hey, would you rather get $1,000 from this person and have them not leave a review versus free and a glowing review?" I promise you, you will make so much more from one glowing review than you will from the $1,000 long term.

   14. JSJay Shetty30:39

       Yeah.

   15. SPSpeaker30:39

       So you're just building up the stockpile, the foundation to then build whatever you wanna build on top of it.

   16. JSJay Shetty30:44

       Yeah. It's re- it's really strong advice. It's-I, I hope everyone who's listening and watching right now is like going, "This is what I'm gonna do right now," like 10 hours for free-

   17. SPSpeaker30:51

       Yeah

   18. JSJay Shetty30:51

       ... because that's where we're blocking ourselves. We don't have the experience-

   19. SPSpeaker30:55

       Yeah

   20. JSJay Shetty30:56

       ... and therefore we don't feel comfortable selling more-

   21. SPSpeaker30:58

       Mm-hmm

   22. JSJay Shetty30:58

       ... because we don't even know how the service will look.

   23. SPSpeaker31:00

       Yeah.

   24. JSJay Shetty31:01

       Right? So you're trying to sell a service, and maybe you sold one-

   25. SPSpeaker31:04

       Yeah

   26. JSJay Shetty31:04

       ... but you haven't been through the full life cycle of what it feels like to deliver that service.

   27. SPSpeaker31:08

       Yep.

   28. JSJay Shetty31:08

       Now you don't know how many website revisions or edits there's gonna be.

   29. SPSpeaker31:12

       Mm-hmm.

   30. JSJay Shetty31:12

       You don't know how many app updates there are gonna be. You have no idea.
10. 32:27 – 35:37

    Your Product Must Solve a Real Problem

    1. SPSpeaker32:27

       wage has value. Anybody can understand that five hours of work is a material amount of work that you're choosing to give away for free. And so even if you have no expertise, labor at base price is still worth something. And so if you add on expertise, it becomes a very c-compelling offer. But the beauty of that setup of having five or 10 hours that you choose to spend is that there's basically, if you're doing it one-on-one, there's almost no technical, you know, component to it. You don't have to, like, build all these calendaring and, and sched- It's just like you're just gonna text those five people, "Hey, you wanna do same time tomorrow?" Very simple. And then for each of those, you know, calls that you'll take with them, um, by the-- in the very first call, you just say, "Hey, I wanna just be clear. What's the problem? What do you wanna, you know, what do you wanna solve? And do you mind at the end of the five hours we spend together, if this was good, if I can tell you about what I do?" If you just set that s- that, that pre-frame up front and then you do the hours on the fifth call or the fifth hour or the tenth hour, you can say, "Hey, remember I said at the beginning? I was like, 'Has this been good so far?'" It's like, "Awesome, let me just recap what we've done o- or what we've covered and the progress we've made. Do you f-feel happy about that? Great. So this is what I think it would look like." 'Cause also, you spent those five or 10 hours getting as much information or ammunition from them of all the other problems that you could potentially solve. And then at that point, it's just, "Hey, I think that I can solve problem one, two, and three. It'll take me maybe six months, but this is what kind of an engagement would look like. How does that sound to you?" That's all you have to do, and the thing is, is that after you give someone five or 10 hours, there's so much reciprocity that's built up. They're like, "Well, shoot." I mean, sure. Now, if somebody on the first call says, "No, I don't want to," then it's like you don't, you don't even need to c- like continue. And so one of the big things that I, I'm a big proponent of is absolutely give stuff away for free to people who are qualified.

    2. JSJay Shetty33:58

       Yes.

    3. SPSpeaker33:58

       And so we're like, "I don't want a lot of tire kickers." It's like, for sure, neither do I. But if I had a room of 100 of the most qualified people, which if you're like, "What are a qualified person?" It's, it's BANT. So, uh, IBM made this, figured this out like 70 years ago, and it's really never changed. So BANT is budget, authority, need, timing. Do they have the money to spend, the ability to make the decision, they need the thing right now, and is now, is, is it now a priority? And so if we had a room of 100 people who met all four of those criteria, wouldn't you wanna do something and spend five or 10 hours for free? I mean, my God, like if you had... If you could sign-- Like, the reason they sell timeshares over six-hour blocks of time is because it just takes time to build trust for a higher ticket sale. So if anything, it's like you're choosing to say that I'm gonna give you five hours, but they're giving you five hours to influence them to ultimately prove that you're good at whatever you do.

    4. JSJay Shetty34:46

       Yeah.

    5. SPSpeaker34:46

       And so I think that is the easiest way to get started. You can make that your front-end offer. You can put that in the video. And I think the, the beauty of that specific offer is that you don't need to even figure out what you're going to sell because you'll figure it out during the time you spend with them.

    6. JSJay Shetty34:58

       Mm-hmm.

    7. SPSpeaker34:58

       And so you can figure out the offer in real time with them. And also, because you're doing it one-on-one, you can basically, you can, you can permutate it. You can, you can tweak it every single time you, you, you pitch it to somebody on the fifth or eighth call or whatever. That ultimately gets you so many faster iterations that are low risk.

    8. JSJay Shetty35:13

       Yeah. You know, talking to you today, and Alex, I, I watch your stuff all the time, the thing that's standing out to me is you're super tactical. There's all these methods.

    9. SPSpeaker35:20

       Yeah.

    10. JSJay Shetty35:20

        There's all these systems. But then when you were talking about your life, you were like, "It's all about who I wanna become."

    11. SPSpeaker35:26

        Mm-hmm.

    12. JSJay Shetty35:27

        Is there a number that you stop at, or is it actually who you wanna become that's your North Star?

    13. SPSpeaker35:34

        I see entrepreneurship as the single greatest

11. 35:37 – 39:40

    What No One Tells You About the Trade-Offs of Business

    1. SPSpeaker35:37

       path for personal development because if, if we define, you know, learning as fast feedback loops, there are very few other, you know, professions that give you that much feedback, that brutally honest, [laughs] brutally honest feedback as the market will do. And so at every point where I get stuck in a business, I think to myself, like, "What skill do I lack?" And I define everything by skill, so even traits, which is just, you know, a colloquial term, which is really just a bucket of many skills. Um, I just think, "Okay, well, in order for me to appear confident or be confident, it's really like 38 things that I have to learn." And all of these things, if I break them down easier, I can do them. So it's like, okay, when I shake hands, I make sure that I web the, the middle of my hand, and I squeeze firmly, and I look at the person in the eye. It's like, that's thing one. Thing two is that when we're talking, like, you nod because you've been doing this for so long, but some people who don't know how to have conversations just stand like this. But somebody who's an active listener will nod. They'll say, "Oh, that's a great point," whatever. And so it's like, that's the second thing. When I walk into a room, I'm gonna call people by name. It's a third thing. And so when I, when I try and think about these traits of who I wanna become, it's like, can I break these down into actions that I can actually do?

    2. JSJay Shetty36:38

       Yeah.

    3. SPSpeaker36:38

       And so I think that is, that has been a large part of the, the growth that I've, I've hopefully, you know, been able to, uh, achieve. But in terms of the ultimate goal, for me, it's always just been to be useful.

    4. JSJay Shetty36:47

       Mm-hmm.

    5. SPSpeaker36:48

       And if I think I just do that, then-I like that it's such a simplified goal because being useful has, uh, it actually includes multiple parties, because you cannot be useful unless there's someone else you're being useful to. And so it gives you something controllable, which is that I have to learn skills so that I can serve someone else, and that is how I can ultimately be useful.

    6. JSJay Shetty37:05

       Mm-hmm.

    7. SPSpeaker37:05

       And so even when we're, you know, we're making content or whatever it is that we're putting out, I, I always try to think of like, "Is this useful?" Like, can someone actually... Will this change someone's behavior? I'll be like, "I want to educate." It's like, well, what is education? It just means same condition, new behavior. So if someone has their same day over and over again, then they're not learning. So if your day looks the same every single day, you have learned nothing.

    8. JSJay Shetty37:23

       Mm.

    9. SPSpeaker37:24

       And so that means that if you listen to this podcast and then nothing changes about your behavior as a result, this was just entertainment, not education. And so that has been just a, it w- it's a very sobering point because you realize, "Oh, I have to change my behavior in order to demonstrate that I have learned." Now, the second component of this is like, okay, well, what's intelligence then? So intelligence, as I define it, is rate of learning. So how quickly do I change my behavior in the same condition based on some stimulus?

    10. JSJay Shetty37:49

        Mm-hmm.

    11. SPSpeaker37:50

        And so if you, you, in a very real way, you can influence your intelligence by being willing to change faster. And so if you've heard 10 podcasts and then you eventually change versus somebody who listens to one and then changes, that person is more intelligent than you are. And so I see that as actually really encouraging because to me it's like, oh my God, I have an active control on how quickly I can learn simply by changing my behavior.

    12. JSJay Shetty38:08

        Mm-hmm.

    13. SPSpeaker38:09

        And so that has been kind of my, my modus operandi for how I, how I, how I live life.

    14. JSJay Shetty38:14

        Yeah. I want to dive into that, but as an aside, my-

    15. SPSpeaker38:17

        [laughs]

    16. JSJay Shetty38:17

        No, no, no. The reason why, you'll, you'll get it in a second. As an aside, I've been really embarrassed of my handshake lately. It's 'cause I've got a really bad s- case of tennis elbow.

    17. SPSpeaker38:24

        [laughs]

    18. JSJay Shetty38:24

        I've been playing a lot of pickleball.

    19. SPSpeaker38:26

        [laughs]

    20. JSJay Shetty38:26

        And so my elbow is destroyed. And so every time... I've been, I was on tour for the last month, and every time I've shook someone's hand in a meet and greet-

    21. SPSpeaker38:33

        Ugh

    22. JSJay Shetty38:33

        ... my hand was just like, [laughs]

    23. SPSpeaker38:35

        [laughs]

    24. JSJay Shetty38:35

        Just like that literally. And I felt so embarrassed, but every time I'd-

    25. SPSpeaker38:38

        Yeah

    26. JSJay Shetty38:38

        ... every time I did a proper handshake, my elbow would hurt. Anyway, um, but so you just, you just brought back all that-

    27. SPSpeaker38:43

        Yeah. [laughs]

    28. JSJay Shetty38:43

        ... all that trauma. I really appreciate that mindset because it's what you said earlier, that it actually sets you up for long-term success even when things are not going your way, when the results may not go your way, when you're having to do the things you hate. Like, it's only when that's your north star that you can do all of that.

    29. SPSpeaker39:02

        Yeah.

    30. JSJay Shetty39:02

        Whereas if your north star is just a number-
12. 39:40 – 52:27

    How to Turn Your Job Experience into a Business

    1. SPSpeaker39:40

       so it's more that we just want something different almost all the time. And so it's that, that desire. And you're, you're the monk here, so you know more about this than I do. That's the issue. Like, that's the core problem. Um, and so even everyone right now who, who doesn't have a business is like, "Man, I would like to start a business someday." And then all the people who start a business, they're like, "My God, I can't wait to get out of this thing," right? And so it's just there are pros and cons on both sides. There are trade-offs. And I would say that if there was a fourth myth that we were, we were, we would tackle, it's that people want the benefits of multiple paths without the trade-offs of each.

    2. JSJay Shetty40:10

       Mm.

    3. SPSpeaker40:11

       And so I think one of the reasons... So there's lots of, you know, content of like, you know, talk to 80-year-olds and they'll tell you, you know, their biggest life regrets. But what I find really interesting is that typically what they will do is they will assume all the benefits of their current life and say, "I also wish I had the benefits of this other path-

    4. JSJay Shetty40:25

       Yes

    5. SPSpeaker40:26

       ... without the costs of that other path that are unknown." And also they don't, they forget to subtract all the benefits of their existing path. And so I like to play it out. It's like, okay, well, if I were to do this other path and make that trade, um, would I be, would I be better off? And most times it ends up just being like, I'd probably be about as happy as I am now. [laughs]

    6. JSJay Shetty40:46

       Yeah. [laughs]

    7. SPSpeaker40:46

       Right? [laughs] Like it's like, oh man, the, the one that got away. It's like, you'd probably be about just as happy as you are now. As soon as you play it out a couple years, it's like you'd probably be about the same.

    8. JSJay Shetty40:54

       Yeah. [laughs]

    9. SPSpeaker40:54

       And so that's actually, uh, dramatically reduced my kind of regret, uh, analysis from, from a living perspective. But I think the trade-off part is so important because especially when you're starting out or even when you're more advanced in business, there's a, what I call the fallacy of the perfect pick, which is that we overanalyze things because we think that we have to get it just right, because we think that if we pick just perfectly, we'll find a way to get only benefits and no costs, and it doesn't exist. And so instead people just stay stuck thinking that there is some pick that they're not seeing, but it's just not true. And so I think the faster you're willing to make the trade-offs and actually spell them out, like these are the things I'm willing to trade. Because I think a lot of people, when they want to, like, pursue any endeavor, they, they immediately think, and I think this is a little bit more Western, is that they think about addition. They think about how can, how many more things can I do? How many more things can I add to my calendar? But most, like right now, you currently have a f- quote, "full calendar." You live 24 hours a day and you do stuff. And so I think it's more valuable to think, "What am I willing to give up? What am I willing to sacrifice?" And 'cause we have to create space, we have to create this vacuum so that we can put this other thing in. And so those are the trades. And I think in the beginning, the trades are sometimes, uh, you know, more emotional, uh, because in the beginning it's more, you know, my friends will think this is weird, uh, they don't want to get this text. What if someone says, "Oh yeah, you're starting your business, I forgot," or, "Oh, you're not, you're not coming out with us. Are you really doing that thing again?" Dude, it's not gonna... I mean, "Hey man, I love you, man. Like, I, I'm supporting you," right? Or your, your mom's like, "Are you really gonna pursue podcasting as a thing?" [laughs] Right?

    10. JSJay Shetty42:18

        [laughs]

    11. SPSpeaker42:18

        Right?

    12. JSJay Shetty42:18

        Yeah.

    13. SPSpeaker42:19

        I think like the, the f- you know, the first rule of entrepreneurship is use what you got.

    14. JSJay Shetty42:22

        Mm.

    15. SPSpeaker42:22

        Right? It's not waiting for some perfect condition because, um, starting is the perfect condition.

    16. JSJay Shetty42:26

        Yeah. That's where the profession part comes in, going back to where you are.

    17. SPSpeaker42:30

        Yeah.

    18. JSJay Shetty42:30

        Like going back to passion, profession, pain.

    19. SPSpeaker42:32

        Yeah.

    20. JSJay Shetty42:32

        With profession, that's use what you got.

    21. SPSpeaker42:34

        Yeah.

    22. JSJay Shetty42:34

        Like, you actually understand this industry. Maybe you even worked really hard to get a degree in it if you went to college.

    23. SPSpeaker42:40

        Yeah.

    24. JSJay Shetty42:40

        Or you've had work experience since you were 16.

    25. SPSpeaker42:42

        Mm-hmm.

    26. JSJay Shetty42:43

        But you kind of want to disregard that because you think there's the perfect pick-

    27. SPSpeaker42:46

        Yeah

    28. JSJay Shetty42:46

        ... over here, and potent-potentially the passionate pick-

    29. SPSpeaker42:49

        Yeah

    30. JSJay Shetty42:49

        ... over here. How do you turn that profession into a service, a side hustle-
13. 52:27 – 56:07

    Redefining Success: It’s Not About the Outcome

    1. SPSpeaker52:27

       and you get one sale a week. Okay. Then if you wanna, that would give you four sales a month roughly. If you're like, "Man, I wanna go from four sales a month to, to 16 sales a month," the nice thing is that you actually have a clear input-output equation, which is that, okay, it costs me 700 primary, you know, efforts to get one sale. And so that volatility feels like it's only one, but it's because you're not doing enough. If I take that 700 and do 700 per day, then all of a sudden I'll be making one sale a day. And fundamentally, that little compression process is the only thing that separates very small businesses from very large businesses. Most small business owners have no idea how much more volume the guys who are ahead of them put out.

    2. JSJay Shetty53:09

       Mm.

    3. SPSpeaker53:09

       I'm gonna write a conversation at the very beginning of me deciding to make content after I sold the company where I said, "Hey, you know, I, I really wanna learn this Instagram game, um, and content game." And so I talked to somebody who's a big, big influencer, and I said, you know, "Can you, can you analyze my stuff and tell me what I'm doing wrong?" And he said, "Dude, you're not doing anything wrong. You're just doing too little." [laughs]

    4. JSJay Shetty53:30

       [laughs]

    5. SPSpeaker53:30

       And so he said, he said, "Pull up your Instagram," and I pulled it up, uh, and I think I was doing like a post every other day or something like that, and he's like, "Dude, I got four posts today."

    6. JSJay Shetty53:37

       Yeah.

    7. SPSpeaker53:37

       And I was like, "Whoa." And then he said, "Pull up your LinkedIn." And I, I don't think I posted on LinkedIn. He's like, "I got 10 posts today." And he's like, "Pull up your, pull up your Twitter," at the time, now X. It's like I, I had nothing, right? So he, he went side by side. He's like, "I'm putting out 70, 80 a day, and you're putting out one every other, and you're complaining?" And I was like, "Got it."

    8. JSJay Shetty53:53

       Yeah.

    9. SPSpeaker53:53

       And so the... Most people dramatically underestimate the amount of volume that is required, and that volume has a great feedback loop for skill because you do these iterations and you will suck.

    10. JSJay Shetty54:04

        Yeah.

    11. SPSpeaker54:04

        And that is okay. And as long as you... Like, the process that I have for improving any part of any system is just do a tremendous amount of volume. Let's say we do 100 whatevers. We look at the top 10% of, of the ones that got the highest response rate or the ones that got the most views or the ads that got the most clicks. We say, "Okay, what was different about these top 10% compared to the other 90?" And so the next 100 we do, we say, "Let's just try and just do the thing we did in the top 10%." We do it again, and that continual refinement process has been key to all the stuff that we've done. It's just look at what worked, do more of that. And so if you were in the professional bucket, that is more or less kind of the approach that I would take to get that first dollar.

    12. JSJay Shetty54:38

        Everyone needs to listen to that 15 minutes every day.

    13. SPSpeaker54:40

        [laughs]

    14. JSJay Shetty54:41

        I'm not kidding. That was the most amount of value I think has ever been packed-

    15. SPSpeaker54:45

        [laughs]

    16. JSJay Shetty54:45

        ... in the 15 minutes that I've ever heard in my entire life, and I'm not kidding. That is such brilliant, brilliant advice, totally broken down step by step. I mean, you could, I mean, you could make like 70 posts off of just the last 15 minutes.

    17. SPSpeaker54:59

        [laughs]

    18. JSJay Shetty54:59

        It was so... No, and I, and I mean that. I'm not just saying that because right now as you're speaking, I've got so many friends that I've got in my head that are exactly at that point, and it's either the volume that's messing them up. It's either not having the plan to how do you pitch and convert. Two questions-The first is, how do you stop being scared of sucking?

    19. SPSpeaker55:20

        Mm.

    20. JSJay Shetty55:21

        Because a lot of my friends are scared of sucking.

    21. SPSpeaker55:23

        Mm-hmm.

    22. JSJay Shetty55:24

        And the second one is, why are we so uncomfortable selling-

    23. SPSpeaker55:30

        Mm.

    24. JSJay Shetty55:30

        -and promoting-

    25. SPSpeaker55:31

        Let's just-

    26. JSJay Shetty55:31

        -and showing our work?

    27. SPSpeaker55:32

        So the first one, what's really interesting about the question is that I think that most people are actually very okay with sucking. I think they're very not okay with being judged for sucking. And so I think that at the, at the onset, we have to redefine success as trying and not as succeeding, uh, or at least getting whatever desired outcome there is. Because failure and success are, are salt and pepper. They're married. They're... One, one leads to the next. And so the idea is we wanna get as many failures out of the way as fast as possible, and so it's like we wanna pay down that failure debt as, again, as soon as we can. And so the, the very tactical

14. 56:07 – 1:02:18

    Listen to People Who Are Where You Want to Be

    1. SPSpeaker56:07

       thing that I would advise is think about... There's-- we think, "I don't, I don't want people to think that I'm a failure." It's actually not people. There's like two people that you hear their voice in your head. And so when you actually get really clear on who- whose voice is that? 'Cause I'll tell you, I'll tell you a real-world example.

    2. JSJay Shetty56:23

       Yeah, please.

    3. SPSpeaker56:23

       So for me, when I... So this is sounds ridiculous, but just, but just to show you hopefully how ridiculous whatever you think sounds, I'll share one of mine.

    4. JSJay Shetty56:29

       [laughs]

    5. SPSpeaker56:30

       So when I was, uh, thinking about selling my company, the, the offer was for, for 46.2 million, and I, I was afraid that it wasn't enough to impress the people that I wanted to impress. And so, and I had to figure that out. I was like, "I don't know. I mean, is, is it worth it? Maybe I should hold onto it longer and grow more," and I went, you know, back and forth. And when I thought more, more about it, I was like, actually there's only one person whose opinion I'm concerned about. And then when I named it, when I was like, "Oh, it's Tom? Tom's the per-" And like, I'm not even that close with Tom. But Tom, my envisionment of Tom judging my, my s- my, my exit as not good enough for their approval, I was like, "Wait. I'm letting Tom have this much influence over my life? That's absurd." And so one of the big, um, reframes that I have in my head is that if you don't know why you believe what you believe, it's not your belief, it's someone else's.

    6. JSJay Shetty57:24

       Mm.

    7. SPSpeaker57:24

       And so if you can't explain like, "Why am I not doing this?" If you can't actually explain it, it's because there's someone else's voice that is influencing you that you're not aware of. And so I try and-

    8. JSJay Shetty57:31

       Name it.

    9. SPSpeaker57:32

       Yeah, exa- the naming is the key part because as soon as you see that, you're like, "Tom?"

    10. JSJay Shetty57:35

        [laughs]

    11. SPSpeaker57:36

        And you're like, "Screw Tom." You're like, "I wanna do..." So it's like, is, is Tom's approval worth more than the dream that you wanna pursue? And as soon as you get that, you're like, "Well, hell no." And then you move forward. And I can tell you just from, from the other side of this, and I wanna unders- I wanna be really clear, I understand how scary it is. It took me six months to quit my job, and I'd s- I'd talk to my friend every single day saying, "This is the day, this is the day, this is the day." And when I did finally quit my job, I drove across the country, and I only called people from home when I was already halfway across. I didn't tell anyone I was leaving because I was so afraid of what they would say. So I say this as somebody who absolutely gets it. But I just wanna tell you from the other side of it, it's, you know, this is a Layla quote, not me, but it, you know, "Fear is a mile wide and an inch deep." And so it looks like this vast ocean of, of like, "I'm gonna drown," but as soon as you take the first step, you're like, "Oh, this is a puddle."

    12. JSJay Shetty58:26

        Mm.

    13. SPSpeaker58:26

        And there's a quote from Jocko Willink that I love that's recent, that's been top of mind for me, which is, "Besides death, all failure is psychological." And it's just when you... The, the longer you think about it, the more you're like, "Wait."

    14. JSJay Shetty58:39

        Yeah.

    15. SPSpeaker58:39

        "All failure is just me drawing an arbitrary line in the sand-"

    16. JSJay Shetty58:42

        Yeah.

    17. SPSpeaker58:43

        -that I say anything that does not meet the standard will force me to be upset." [laughs]

    18. JSJay Shetty58:46

        Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    19. SPSpeaker58:47

        That's it. [laughs]

    20. JSJay Shetty58:47

        Yeah.

    21. SPSpeaker58:47

        And so it's like, "Okay, well, if I don't die, then I can keep going."

    22. JSJay Shetty58:50

        Yeah.

    23. SPSpeaker58:50

        "And if I don't die, then it means I can stand it."

    24. JSJay Shetty58:53

        Yeah. And I, and I think a big part of it when I'm listening to you is because it's psychological-

    25. SPSpeaker58:57

        Yeah

    26. JSJay Shetty58:58

        ... let me know that it will happen.

    27. SPSpeaker59:00

        Yeah.

    28. JSJay Shetty59:00

        So I remember when I put out my first video, which I didn't tell anyone I was gonna do.

    29. SPSpeaker59:04

        [laughs]

    30. JSJay Shetty59:04

        I spent two years watching videos-
15. 1:02:18 – 1:04:23

    Overcoming the Fear of Selling Ourselves

    1. JSJay Shetty1:02:18

       I'm like, if I think something's a big problem to solve or a skill to learn, I will cancel every evening plan this week, and I will cancel my entire weekend, and all I'm doing this weekend is figuring out that skill. I'll get a coach. I'll commit to the time, and I'll be around that community of people.

    2. SPSpeaker1:02:35

       Yeah.

    3. JSJay Shetty1:02:35

       Those are my three practices or things to develop a skill.

    4. SPSpeaker1:02:39

       Got it.

    5. JSJay Shetty1:02:39

       And then this weekend is dedicated-

    6. SPSpeaker1:02:41

       Yeah

    7. JSJay Shetty1:02:41

       ... to getting good at X. And it's like, if I don't get enough hours in this weekend, the next four weekends are dedicated to that thing. And all of a sudden in a month, I've solved a problem that could have taken me six years.

    8. SPSpeaker1:02:53

       Oh, yeah.

    9. JSJay Shetty1:02:53

       And so I love that piece of advice because I think it's, it's the same advice when you give people, like, "Hey, just try three things out."

    10. SPSpeaker1:02:59

        Yeah.

    11. JSJay Shetty1:02:59

        And they're like, "Okay, I'll try three things out, one a year."

    12. SPSpeaker1:03:02

        Yeah. [laughs]

    13. JSJay Shetty1:03:02

        And, and also when you give it twelve months-

    14. SPSpeaker1:03:05

        Yeah

    15. JSJay Shetty1:03:05

        ... to try one thing out, you actually never know.

    16. SPSpeaker1:03:07

        Right.

    17. JSJay Shetty1:03:07

        Whereas if you did something for a whole day-

    18. SPSpeaker1:03:10

        Mm-hmm

    19. JSJay Shetty1:03:10

        ... like I remember when me and my wife were in Hawaii, and we both grew up in London, we never went surfing or skiing and things like this, right? We're in Hawaii, we try surfing.

    20. SPSpeaker1:03:20

        Yeah.

    21. JSJay Shetty1:03:20

        We do it the whole day. I knew I was never gonna be a surfer, and it's the last thing I wanna do.

    22. SPSpeaker1:03:24

        [laughs]

    23. JSJay Shetty1:03:24

        And I don't care at all about surfing. It w- it looks good-

    24. SPSpeaker1:03:28

        Yeah

    25. JSJay Shetty1:03:28

        ... but it is not fun to do. Like, I didn't enjoy the process. And I'm like, but if I went, like, for thirty minutes one day, then I'd be like, "Oh, well, maybe I just didn't do it right."

    26. SPSpeaker1:03:36

        Yeah. [laughs]

    27. JSJay Shetty1:03:37

        And then you're like, "Okay, I'll go thirty minutes next year. I'll do an hour next year." And so we just keep elongating-

    28. SPSpeaker1:03:42

        Mm-hmm

    29. JSJay Shetty1:03:42

        ... the kind of failure rate or knowing how quickly something's important or not.

    30. SPSpeaker1:03:47

        I think it's getting completely immersed and just soaked in whatever the thing that you're trying to pursue. So I'll tell you a, a comparable story. So when I was, when I had my first business, I, I was-- I've never been a tech-oriented person. Now, I try not to speak that over myself, but, like-
16. 1:04:23 – 1:10:17

    How to Influence Without Manipulating

    1. SPSpeaker1:04:23

       this page. I just wanna see if I can figure it out." And I set two full days aside, and I finished it by noon.

    2. JSJay Shetty1:04:28

       Yeah.

    3. SPSpeaker1:04:29

       But I had put it off for weeks. And so, uh, most times, it's almost like fear is a mile wide and an inch deep. So is ignorance. It's like, it's more than you expect but less, less than you think.

    4. JSJay Shetty1:04:38

       Yeah.

    5. SPSpeaker1:04:38

       Right?

    6. JSJay Shetty1:04:39

       Yeah.

    7. SPSpeaker1:04:39

       You get in, and then you're like, "Oh, there's only four parts to this. Okay, I think... Okay, now I..." You wanna wrap your arms around it, and I think that's why having these kind of longer intense sessions where you kind of drink all of it up. Because if you did multiple thirty-minute sessions, for example, it's like it'll take you the first fifteen minutes to get back into, "What did I just learn last time?" And then it just, it takes very, it's very hard to get, make progress. And so I'm a, I'm a massive advocate of full shutdown days. S- I mean, drink your coffee, get your good night's sleep, and then put your earplugs in and then, like, lock in.

    8. JSJay Shetty1:05:06

       Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And then the second question was, why are we so uncomfortable-

    9. SPSpeaker1:05:11

       Mm

    10. JSJay Shetty1:05:11

        ... with selling, promoting ourselves-

    11. SPSpeaker1:05:14

        Yeah

    12. JSJay Shetty1:05:14

        ... putting ourselves out there?

    13. SPSpeaker1:05:15

        So I would put those two, so two separate buckets. So one is the promotion, which is kind of public embarrassment, public harass, you know, that stuff, right?

    14. JSJay Shetty1:05:22

        Which we kind of talked about, yeah.

    15. SPSpeaker1:05:22

        Yeah. The second one is, um, why am I scared to ask this person for money, right? And so I think on some level it comes down to some people feel like imposters. They're like, "I, you know, I don't deserve this," and things like that. But I think that there's a, there's a very tactical way to overcome that, which is you outwork your self-doubt. And so if you, um, if you've done those twenty, and p- it's, I think it's people who haven't done the twenty who feel like imposters. But if you've done it twenty times and you're like, "I know what's gonna happen next, and I know what your problem is, and I also know I can solve it." And so your conviction goes up because you're not, you're not exaggerating anything. You're not puffing your chest. You're just... One of my big rules of persuasion is state the facts and tell the truth. And so you're like, "Listen, I've done twenty of these. You have the same issues as these people. This is what I did for them. I think I can do the same thing for you." We're not exaggerating. We're not claiming anything. We're just saying, like, this is, this is what's happened. And so I think that that will dramatically decrease the anxiety around the conversation. The second piece is the fear of, like, rejection in the micro. And so, um, it's, it's always overstated because, uh, the worst thing they can say is no. And then you say, "Okay, fine. No worries. Like, not a big deal. I'll just ask somebody else," right? [laughs] Like, if anything, sales is like dating. It's a numbers game. Like, you have to be willing to say, w- I would... And this is why I like rule of 100 a lot is, have 100 conversations. And I promise you, your anxiety will go down because you'll just habituate. And so every, like... And this is the psychological way of actually curing phobias. If you're afraid of spiders, the fastest way to cure spiders is lock you in a room with spiders. You'll have a couple panic attacks. You'll, you'll-

    16. JSJay Shetty1:06:52

        [laughs]

    17. SPSpeaker1:06:53

        ... you'll pass out. You'll wake back up, and the spider's still there. You wait, pass out, wake back up, and eventually you're just like, "All right, I'm used to it."

    18. JSJay Shetty1:06:58

        Yeah.

    19. SPSpeaker1:06:59

        And so that's also one of the telltale signs of an experienced salesman is that in the close, when the stakes are high, their pulse is the same. It's because they've done this before. And so we just have to get you to the we've done this before part as fast as we can.

    20. JSJay Shetty1:07:10

        Yeah. What about people who feel like the approaches are manipulative?

    21. SPSpeaker1:07:15

        Oh, okay.

    22. JSJay Shetty1:07:15

        Or these tactics are like you're preying on someone's vulnerabilities-

    23. SPSpeaker1:07:20

        Yeah

    24. JSJay Shetty1:07:20

        ... and insecurities, and of course that person wants to lose weight for their partner, and you're-

    25. SPSpeaker1:07:24

        Yeah

    26. JSJay Shetty1:07:25

        ... playing to that. Like, what about someone who feels that way, and that's what gets in their head? Like, "Oh, I know I have a valuable service. I know I wanna help people."

    27. SPSpeaker1:07:32

        Yeah.

    28. JSJay Shetty1:07:32

        "But actually, like, they should wanna do it themselves. I'm not gonna convince them."

    29. SPSpeaker1:07:36

        So I'm gonna... I'll define two things. So one, I see the process of selling as arranging the variables to increase the likelihood a sale occurs. That is the selling process. And so we wanna use all the variables we can, 'cause if we can control the variables, we control the outcome. And so I see then underneath that, the difference between help and manipulation is intention. And so you use the exact same, uh, variables to influence someone's purchasing decision. But if your intention is to scam them out of money and not help them, then for sure you should... I hope you feel all the feelings that [laughs] you have right now. But on the flip side, if you're, if you know that you're gonna do your absolute best and, and you've not misrepresented something, and I think this is the key part where people feel the imposter syndrome, is because they misrepresent. If you state the facts and tell the truth, most of your anxiety goes away. And I have this conversation sometimes with entrepreneurs, even at a million dollars a year, $5 million a year, and they're like, "I just feel this imposter syndrome with my business." And I'll say, "Are you stating anything that's not true?" And then they'll kind of look at me and they're like, "Well, you know, I teach agencies how to, you know, grow their customer base." And I'm like, "Okay, and why do you feel like an imposter?" They're like, "Well, you know, I had an agency, and it just, it really wasn't that successful." And I'm like, "Okay. Are your clients successful?" And they're like, "No, the clients are successful." I'm like, "Okay, so what do you teach them that you were not able to do for yourself?" And they're like, "Well, I was actually just really good at the sales side. I was really bad at the delivery side." I said, "If you just say, 'Hey, I had an agency. I was really good at selling customers, really bad at delivering on them. But if you're good at delivering on them and you need a sales process, I can help you.'" I was like, "Would you feel like you're being an imposter?" And he's like, "No." I was like, "And believe it or not, that's actually more compelling-"

    30. JSJay Shetty1:09:02

        Mm.
17. 1:10:17 – 1:17:28

    The Difference Between Criticism and Insults

    1. SPSpeaker1:10:17

       uh, it was a software that helped, uh, agencies kind of manage schedules. It did automated texting stuff back before all the new [laughs] stuff now, right? And so, um, I actually had agencies that sold to gym owners, and I obviously also owned GymLaunch at the time too, which is a, which is the category, you know, king in that space, right? It's the biggest company there. And so they were like, "How do we, how do we compete against you?" And I said, "Every position has an advantage. And so you are gonna say, 'Man, Alex, Alex isn't gonna be the one take- you know, he's not the one taking your calls. He's just gonna... You're gonna be client number 77. He's not even gonna know your name. You're gonna be assigned to some account rep that he pays, you know, nothing to...' And of course we paid well, but like I've [laughs] like, I don't know. You know, he just pays way less, um, that he onboarded in two days. Uh, and like that's the level of service you're gonna get. Whereas with me, you get the highest person, you get the CEO, and you call me, I'll respond immediately. I'm the one working on your account. So don't compare gym- the size of GymLaunch to the size of my company. Compare the person you're actually gonna work with. And am I gonna be better than his rep number seven? Yes." That's a compelling pitch. Now, if I'm flipping the table, I'm gonna say, "Listen, this guy's in his mom's basement. He hasn't proven any track record. We've been here for 10 years, and the reason we've been here for 10 years and we've gotten so big is 'cause we're actually good at what we do. And if we weren't good at what we do, we wouldn't be this big, and we wouldn't have been doing it for this long. This guy has no process. He might be gone tomorrow." We both have advantages that we can cater. So there's no position on the board that doesn't have advantage. You just gotta play what you got. Again-

    2. JSJay Shetty1:11:38

       Yeah

    3. SPSpeaker1:11:38

       ... rule number one, right?

    4. JSJay Shetty1:11:39

       [laughs] Yeah. And, and, and the idea of pointing it out-

    5. SPSpeaker1:11:42

       Yeah

    6. JSJay Shetty1:11:43

       ... is just so masterful because that's what's blocking us. It takes away... We're all trying to be everything to everyone.

    7. SPSpeaker1:11:49

       Right.

    8. JSJay Shetty1:11:49

       And we wanna portray that we've thought about every part of the puzzle-

    9. SPSpeaker1:11:52

       Yeah

    10. JSJay Shetty1:11:53

        ... and we're the one-stop shop. And I feel like whenever anyone says they're the one-stop shop-

    11. SPSpeaker1:11:58

        [laughs]

    12. JSJay Shetty1:11:58

        ... there's nothing there.

    13. SPSpeaker1:11:58

        Yeah. [laughs]

    14. JSJay Shetty1:11:59

        Right? Because it's like, well, wait a minute. There's no way you could have figured out-

    15. SPSpeaker1:12:03

        Right

    16. JSJay Shetty1:12:03

        ... this and this and this and this and this.

    17. SPSpeaker1:12:06

        With just you. [laughs]

    18. JSJay Shetty1:12:06

        With just you, and you've been in the business for two years, right?

    19. SPSpeaker1:12:09

        Yeah, right.

    20. JSJay Shetty1:12:09

        Like, it's, it's just not possible. And so... And that's so freeing. Like, I'm hoping people hear that and just feel so much lighter and go, "Tell the truth, state the facts," and, and that's it, you know? You're ready-

    21. SPSpeaker1:12:20

        And if they say no, that's okay. Because honestly, if they say no, then they weren't going to be a fit.

    22. JSJay Shetty1:12:25

        Yeah.

    23. SPSpeaker1:12:26

        And so I can promise you some of the best deals are the ones you never do. Because right now, any business owner can tell you this, like there are customers that you're like, "I wish we did not ever talk to [laughs] this person."

    24. JSJay Shetty1:12:35

        Yeah.

    25. SPSpeaker1:12:35

        Right? And so like you're just avoiding some of these things that are gonna be calamities later.

    26. JSJay Shetty1:12:39

        Yeah.

    27. SPSpeaker1:12:39

        So you might as well just get it up front. And the thing is, is that when you set those expectations, it just, it creates such a clean relationship from there on. It's like, these are the expectations you can set. This is what I will do. Anything outside of that, I'm not gonna pretend like I have done it. Now, if we wanna figure this out, I'll be figuring it out with you. And if you, if you like the stuff I have here, I can apply some of those principles, but I haven't done it. I wanna be upfront about that. And so where's the imposter syndrome? Where's the fear? It's like there shouldn't be any. And it's all about the deception piece, and I think that's where, that's where people get in trouble.

    28. JSJay Shetty1:13:05

        Yeah. The other thing I've learned about that is that I feel like people who win watch winners-

    29. SPSpeaker1:13:10

        Yeah

    30. JSJay Shetty1:13:10

        ... and people who fail watch losers.
18. 1:17:28 – 1:26:15

    How to Break Repetitive Negative Behavior

    1. JSJay Shetty1:17:28

       of success.

    2. SPSpeaker1:17:29

       Yeah.

    3. JSJay Shetty1:17:29

       And the equation of happiness was envy, ego-

    4. SPSpeaker1:17:31

       Yeah

    5. JSJay Shetty1:17:31

       ... illusion, lust, anger-

    6. SPSpeaker1:17:33

       Yeah

    7. JSJay Shetty1:17:33

       ... all of this stuff. And so it's funny how the equations get, like, you know, crossed over.

    8. SPSpeaker1:17:38

       Yeah. Oh, I, I lo- I just, I loved everything that you just said. [laughs]

    9. JSJay Shetty1:17:41

       No, I just, it, it really resonates hearing about it from your story, and also just, like, breaking it down for people, and making it really simple, and going, like, "Let's stop demonizing people who are selling well or-

    10. SPSpeaker1:17:50

        Yeah

    11. JSJay Shetty1:17:50

        ... making money and doing this thing, because it-

    12. SPSpeaker1:17:52

        Yeah

    13. JSJay Shetty1:17:52

        ... it leads to a certain part of the puzzle."

    14. SPSpeaker1:17:54

        Mm-hmm.

    15. JSJay Shetty1:17:55

        But then let's also remember-

    16. SPSpeaker1:17:56

        Yeah

    17. JSJay Shetty1:17:56

        ... that you wouldn't be who you are today if you hadn't got over that envy right at the beginning.

    18. SPSpeaker1:18:01

        So let me toss this in that I think might be helpful.

    19. JSJay Shetty1:18:03

        Yeah, please. Please.

    20. SPSpeaker1:18:03

        So one of the quotes that I don't like is, "Comparison is the thief of joy."

    21. JSJay Shetty1:18:08

        Mm.

    22. SPSpeaker1:18:08

        And I'll explain why. Because I... So I think comparison is an incredibly valuable feedback tool. Now, what we wanna be clear is the differentiation between criticism and insults. And so insults are attack on someone's character, saying... And I'll give you an example. And a criticism is the difference between, uh, expected and reality, right? Or desired and actual. So, uh, I expect you to be on time, and you are five minutes late. Okay, cool. So I say, "Hey, you were five minutes late. This was the expectation. This is what happened." That is criticism, right? Insult, "And you're lazy." And so, um, if we can pull those things apart, we can take the good of... Because I, I think our brains are comparison brains. Like, it's how we f- how we orient ourselves in the world, where am I? And very tough, maybe years and years of, of, of monk study can maybe get you out of it, but I think for the vast majority of people, comparison is, is gonna be fixed in their brain. And so it's like we wanna use that. We wanna use that skill of learning to dis- to point out the discrepancy between where they are and where I am-

    23. JSJay Shetty1:19:06

        Yes

    24. SPSpeaker1:19:06

        ... so that I can create steps so that I can get better. I want to completely eliminate and erase insults. And also on the flip side, if someone insults me, um, this is a, a side note, but, like, if w- the big fear that many people have on promoting or selling is that someone's gonna say something bad about them.

    25. JSJay Shetty1:19:23

        Mm.

    26. SPSpeaker1:19:23

        And so... That they're gonna get insulted. And the biggest reframe that's been helpful for me is simply translating all hate or insults into, "He lives his life in a way that I would not prefer."

    27. JSJay Shetty1:19:33

        Mm-hmm.

    28. SPSpeaker1:19:34

        And it just comes down to that. I can't belie- he's, he's married to this person. He makes this kind of... Why does he think he... Like, he lives his life in a way that I would not prefer, and that is just, it has really boiled a lot of the, the hatred down to like, oh, well, I mean, you live your life in a way that I would not prefer, and that's fine. That's why you have your life, and I have my life.

    29. JSJay Shetty1:19:48

        [laughs]

    30. SPSpeaker1:19:49

        And hey, more power to you, man.
19. 1:26:15 – 1:28:46

    When to Keep Pushing and When to Pivot

    1. SPSpeaker1:26:15

       quickly do you get it, and how specific is it. And so if you say, "Hey, that sucked," in the moment, uh, not helpful. [chuckles] I will be less... What it will do is make me less likely to do the thing in front of you, right? If you said that.

    2. JSJay Shetty1:26:25

       Mm-hmm.

    3. SPSpeaker1:26:26

       On the flip sideIf you were to say immediately, "Hey, real quick, when you do your intro, raise your tone a little bit at the end 'cause I think it'll actually create more curiosity and people wanna stay longer. Okay, do the intro again." There, I have a very specific piece of feedback, and I did it immediately, so that the likelihood that you change behavior is really high and maybe that it sticks. And so w- the reason feedback is full, and ideally if you're trying to change someone else's behavior or even your own, it's like I wanna seek out very fast feedback that's as specific as possible to the behaviors. And so, um, I tell this story a lot 'cause it's a, it's a story that we tell inside of our company 'cause it's almost become lore. But we had a, a director, super proficient, very competent in his role, really high performer. The problem was that everyone said, "He's such a dick." And the thing is, is that I really like-- I liked his performance, and I wanna decrease the likelihood that I get complained to about him, [both laughing] And so he had four different people in the company have, like, one-on-ones with him being like, "Hey, I need you to stop being a dick," and the thing is his behavior didn't change. And so I, I was supposed to be, like, final boss in this situation and be like, "All right, let's, let's, let's have this sit-down." And so I said, "Hey, I, I don't care if you're a dick on the inside. I would like to decrease the likelihood that other people describe you as one." [laughs] And so I wanna be clear, I have no judgment. I just wanna change this likelihood, this outcome. And so that kind of took the, uh, personal attacks out of the conversation, and then it was like, "Okay, so what are the behaviors you do skill-wise, as minutely as possible, that get people to say this about you?" So it turned out it was you interrupt people on calls, uh, you tell people how to do their jobs, and, and it was two other things, whatever it was. And so I said, "So next time you have the, you know, desire to tell someone, uh, what to do about their job, you have two options. Either say nothing or say, 'Hey, I, I heard this thing that might help. Do you mind if I share it?' If you just say that first, and if they say no, then just be like, 'Okay, no worries.' Or they say yes, then now you have permission to share it, and when you share it, share it in terms of behaviors, criticism, not insult." And so I just had to change a couple of those things, and then within a week people were like, "Oh my God, he's had, he's at night and day, he's a different person." They create all these narratives. Maybe it was because his mom did hug him, she called him, or because we told him what to do instead. And so I, I, I bring this up because I think many people do not take action around pursuing their dreams because of narratives that they create about their past. But the reality is that none of that matters because all we have to do is just say, "What do we need to do instead under these conditions?"

    4. JSJay Shetty1:28:37

       Yeah.

    5. SPSpeaker1:28:37

       And if we, if we take that premise, then you need to learn, and learning means same condition, new behavior. And so

20. 1:28:46 – 1:37:02

    The Four Ingredients of an Irresistible Offer

    1. SPSpeaker1:28:46

       if every day is the same for you, to your point of insanity, then you have the same conditions, and if your behavior has not changed, then maybe you are insane, [both laughing] right? Or at least for, at least for expecting a different outcome.

    2. JSJay Shetty1:28:55

       Yeah.

    3. SPSpeaker1:28:56

       And so that I think makes it significantly more palatable of, like, just change this one thing and then run it again.

    4. JSJay Shetty1:29:01

       Yeah. How does someone who's taken that feedback, trying to get better, and the results are just not changing-

    5. SPSpeaker1:29:07

       Mm-hmm.

    6. JSJay Shetty1:29:07

       They're not getting closer to the outcome.

    7. SPSpeaker1:29:09

       Yeah.

    8. JSJay Shetty1:29:10

       Two questions.

    9. SPSpeaker1:29:10

       Yeah.

    10. JSJay Shetty1:29:10

        The first is, how do you know when it's time to give up?

    11. SPSpeaker1:29:14

        Mm.

    12. JSJay Shetty1:29:15

        And how do you keep going when things are not working?

    13. SPSpeaker1:29:20

        So this is, um, sec- there's a, like, there's a handful of what I call, like, eternal questions that can-- I don't think, uh, they're more dichotomies to be managed than problems to solve. And so how much should I consume today versus invest into tomorrow? How much, uh, how much risk am I willing to take? Uh, which is the classic should I push or should I pivot for an entrepreneur? And the answer that no one's gonna like is that it's actually up to you. So there's kind of like good failure and bad failure. So good failure is like I tried something, and I, I saw that it didn't work, and I realized what I need to do instead, and I'm going to iterate continuously. Bad failure is where I have a, an assumption that the world or the conditions were gonna be this way, and my assumption was false. And so if I believe that people really wanted to have, uh, dog Zoom calls or whatever, right? A Zoom, a Zoom made for dogs. Let's just take a ridiculous example. Well, then I would have to take a couple of need to believes of, like, in order for this to be successful, these four things would have to be true. If I find out after starting some iterations that one of my three or four assumptions that underpin this being successful long-term is not true, then I should not keep trying to pursue this, and that is where I would say we need to pivot. In a situation where none of the conditions that I, or none of the, the need to believes have changed, all of those conditions are still the same, and it's a, it's a, it's a deficiency in skill, then that is where I would push.

    14. JSJay Shetty1:30:38

        Yeah.

    15. SPSpeaker1:30:38

        Now, how long will it take is gonna be completely predicated on how quickly you can learn and the quality of that feedback. And so to your point, I think you said coach, community, and what was the other one?

    16. JSJay Shetty1:30:46

        Commitment.

    17. SPSpeaker1:30:47

        Commitment.

    18. JSJay Shetty1:30:47

        And some sort of consistency.

    19. SPSpeaker1:30:49

        Yes. And so, um, the, the commitment part, um, if you wanna increase your commitment in anything, so I define commitment by, uh, the elimination of alternatives, right? So marriage is the ultimate commitment. You eliminate all, [laughs] all alternatives, right? And so it's like we wanna get married to this opportunity. We get mar-married to this business. We have to eliminate all alternatives, which means when your friend says, "Hey, I made ten grand doing this thing," you say, "That's amazing. I don't know anything about that, and I know, I know two months of suffering from this one, and I'm gonna start at zero there, so I'd rather be two months in on this one." Um, but the... [lip smacks] But with that push or pivot, um, we have to just take things to the natural extreme, which is how I like to do it, which is, okay, well, if I do this for ten years and I keep getting better, do I think it's likely that I'll succeed? And the answer is usually yes. And so it's like, well, then I just keep, need to keep, keep paying down those iterations. And I think Naval said, "It's not ten thousand hours, it's ten thousand iterations," and I tend to believe that.

    20. JSJay Shetty1:31:31

        Mm-hmm. Mm. Your new book's called, uh, Hundred Million Dollar Money Models.

    21. SPSpeaker1:31:36

        Yeah.

    22. JSJay Shetty1:31:37

        It's like, you know, I think there'll be people listening who are like, "I just wanna make 100K a year."

    23. SPSpeaker1:31:41

        Yeah.

    24. JSJay Shetty1:31:42

        There'll be people saying, "I wanna make 100K a month," and then there'll be people saying, "We wanna make a hundred million dollar business." What's the difference-

    25. SPSpeaker1:31:51

        Mm.

    26. JSJay Shetty1:31:51

        -at each of those levels?

    27. SPSpeaker1:31:52

        Mm-hmm.

    28. JSJay Shetty1:31:52

        And what are you sharing here that you haven't shared in the Hundred Million Dollar series before?

    29. SPSpeaker1:31:56

        [sighs] So, um, I'll take those questions one at a time.

    30. JSJay Shetty1:31:59

        Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
21. 1:37:02 – 1:38:40

    Focus on Who You Want to Become Not Just What You Want

    1. SPSpeaker1:37:02

       in your space, which means your advertising doesn't have to be as good. You don't have to be as good at sales. Your, your, your o- like the offer itself might not necessarily be as good, but when you sequence these things together properly the right way, then you can unlock scale in the business and then with that cash flow, buy down that ignorance debt and then get... give yourself time to, to get good at all the other stuff.

    2. JSJay Shetty1:37:18

       And what starting point would you say this book's aimed at? Like, where is someone at in their journey?

    3. SPSpeaker1:37:22

       You can start at zero-

    4. JSJay Shetty1:37:23

       Okay

    5. SPSpeaker1:37:23

       ... because you could start at... So what's interesting about those four things is that you don't need all four. You just need one.

    6. JSJay Shetty1:37:27

       Got it.

    7. SPSpeaker1:37:28

       And over time, 'cause if you were trying to do a, a business that had all four, you had recurring, you have upfront th- like you, you would be completely inundated. So we would start with the first thing, which is some sort of attraction offer. How do we get something that's, that's more designed to get more customers or more people to engage in your original reach-out, your paid ad, your p- your content, whatever it is. Um, and so I have the five most successful structures that I have used and detailed step-by-step exactly how to execute them. And what's interesting is that this is the stuff that... So the Offers book, when it came out, there wasn't a single other book about offers, which is interesting, and then it became kind of a household name, which is... it was this massive gap in the space, but as soon as you see it, you're like, "This is everything." You know, like, "This is how all of it works." I, I think that money models will be that same thing, where there's not a single book that ties those concepts together, and as soon as it... I think it will, it will exist in that s- that huge gap that once you see it, you can analyze any business in that same way and specifically your own.

    8. JSJay Shetty1:38:21

       Yeah.

    9. JSJay Shetty1:38:22

       I love it, Alex. And, um, honestly, like listening to you today, and, and I've consumed your content for a long time now, listening to you in person consistently for this long around the models that you've built is, is a real treat, man. It's, it's, it's so well thought through. It's so systematic. I love the way you think, the way you've been able to train yourself to realize

22. 1:38:40 – 1:42:46

    What Would You Do If You Weren’t Afraid?

    1. JSJay Shetty1:38:40

       that everything's built on behaviors, and the ability to even... Something that you said to me that's really gonna stay with me because I think about it in such a similar way, but it's so obscure-

    2. SPSpeaker1:38:50

       Yeah

    3. JSJay Shetty1:38:50

       ... like, we, we have a lot of similarities in, in our-

    4. SPSpeaker1:38:52

       Totally

    5. JSJay Shetty1:38:52

       ... beliefs and, but some of them are a bit more-

    6. SPSpeaker1:38:54

       From different angles, which I, which I love. Yeah, yeah, totally

    7. JSJay Shetty1:38:56

       ... Yeah, from different angles, but some of them are a bit more... They're from different angles, but some of them are a bit more widespread held, but your one thing you talked about today about how when you watch people say what they regret-

    8. SPSpeaker1:39:07

       Mm

    9. JSJay Shetty1:39:08

       ... and I think about that all the time. I'm like, "Of course you regret you didn't spend enough time with your family."

    10. SPSpeaker1:39:13

        Yeah.

    11. JSJay Shetty1:39:14

        "But you're totally taking away [laughs] -"

    12. SPSpeaker1:39:16

        [laughs]

    13. JSJay Shetty1:39:16

        "... from all the benefits you just got right now," and I'm not saying people shouldn't spend time with their family.

    14. SPSpeaker1:39:20

        Yeah.

    15. JSJay Shetty1:39:20

        It's just when you said that today, that was one thing that I was like, I can't belie- like, to have the ability to think it through to that level, to not just take something at face value-

    16. SPSpeaker1:39:30

        Yeah

    17. JSJay Shetty1:39:30

        ... and I think that's, that's the skill I see you have.

    18. SPSpeaker1:39:33

        Well, thanks.

    19. JSJay Shetty1:39:34

        Like, that's the expert you're at, is that you don't take anything at face value.

    20. SPSpeaker1:39:37

        [laughs] I appreciate it.

    21. JSJay Shetty1:39:37

        And, and that's hard-

    22. SPSpeaker1:39:39

        Yeah

    23. JSJay Shetty1:39:39

        ... because it requires you to dig deep to figure out, well, what is the behavioral science here?

    24. SPSpeaker1:39:45

        Yeah. [laughs]

    25. JSJay Shetty1:39:45

        What is the, what is the exchange here? Like-

    26. SPSpeaker1:39:48

        Yeah

    27. JSJay Shetty1:39:48

        ... what emotions are we talking about? I picked out some of my favorite Alex Hormozi quotes-

    28. SPSpeaker1:39:52

        Oh. [laughs]

    29. JSJay Shetty1:39:52

        ... 'cause I had to 'cause there's so many. All right. You- we've touched on some of this, but it'll be good to get your reaction-

    30. SPSpeaker1:39:57

        Yeah
23. 1:42:46 – 1:45:53

    The Simple Formula Everybody Has But Nobody is Doing

    1. SPSpeaker1:42:46

       um, that I read that, you know, kind of stuck with me was, like, what would you do if you weren't afraid? And I think that's just a, such a, such a, a powerful question to ask because every person has... The, the fear is the thing that gives you the hundred reasons, and what's really interesting about this is that we are, our brains are exceptionally good at finding problems, which is why I'm a big fan of inverted thinking. So how can I think about all the ways to kill my business and then do the opposite? Your, your brain is so much better at spotting problems than spotting opportunities, and so it's like use that problem, that problem-finding thing and then just flip it, and it sounds like, "Oh, well, I would just think of the opportunities that way." It's like, it doesn't actually work. You actually have to think for the threats-

    2. JSJay Shetty1:43:23

       Mm

    3. SPSpeaker1:43:23

       ... and then flip them. But-

    4. JSJay Shetty1:43:24

       That's genius. I love that.

    5. SPSpeaker1:43:25

       Yeah. It's Charlie Munger, so that's... You know, you know, rest in peace. Um, but from a, from a fear perspective, it's, I think it's playing it out. It's like what am, what am I actually most afraid of? And so fear typically only lives in the vague, not in the specific. We tend to catastrophize to death. So if I make this post and people laugh at me, I'll get shunned, and then I'll eventually go alone and then die, right? [laughs] So it's like everything just goes to, like, death, right? And so playing it out into the specific is like, okay, well, I make this post. Some people will like it, and some people won't, and maybe I'll get some negative comments. If I get negative comments, I'll get more reach, so maybe that's not a terrible thing. And then, and then that night I will have dinner.

    6. JSJay Shetty1:44:00

       [laughs]

    7. SPSpeaker1:44:01

       Right? And that night I will go to bed. [laughs]

    8. JSJay Shetty1:44:03

       Yeah.

    9. SPSpeaker1:44:03

       Right? And so, uh, making, making it really, really specific, and then just to add one more thing on that, the other really big d- downside of being human from an opportunity and money-making perspective is that we underestimate the upside, and we overestimate the downside, and that has been incredibly valuable for us to stay alive-

    10. JSJay Shetty1:44:21

        Mm-hmm

    11. SPSpeaker1:44:21

        ... and not very valuable for us to make money. And so when you, if you're in the developed world, the, the, the absolute worst-case scenario is that-You still have a, I say fortress, you still have, you still have, uh, cover and you still have food, and you still have air, and you still have water. Because in the developed world, all those things are available to anyone. And so it's like, okay, so the worst-case scenario is that I live and I'm completely free and no one bothers me. It's like, you know, that actually sounds not so bad. [laughs]

    12. JSJay Shetty1:44:46

        Yeah. Yeah.

    13. SPSpeaker1:44:47

        When you actually play it all the way out. And so, um, I think playing it out and actually really thinking, "What would I then do?" Well, I'd probably reach out to Sarah, and she would let me sleep on her couch. Okay, so... And I would, I would ask her, e-e-if you can play, if you're like, "Hey, Sarah, if I were to do something and I were to fail, how long would you let me sleep on your couch?" She's like, "I'd give you six months." And you're like, "Okay." So it als- all of a sudden becomes c-concrete, and I think that, that starts to really evaporate fear rather than like, "Oh, I will die."

    14. JSJay Shetty1:45:11

        Totally. Yeah, I remember that. When I, when I made the leap, I was like... And, and of course, I was in a position to be able to say this, but I was like, "Okay, well, I'll just go back to what I was doing."

    15. SPSpeaker1:45:19

        Yes.

    16. JSJay Shetty1:45:20

        Like, if this didn't work, I would just go back.

    17. SPSpeaker1:45:21

        Yeah.

    18. JSJay Shetty1:45:21

        Like, I'll figure out a way.

    19. SPSpeaker1:45:22

        Just get the job back. [laughs]

    20. JSJay Shetty1:45:23

        And I'll get a job back, and I'll, and I'll, and I'll go back to do it. And, and that was the reality.

    21. SPSpeaker1:45:28

        Yeah.

    22. JSJay Shetty1:45:28

        And of course, it was still at the time when I felt this was taking up all of that.

    23. SPSpeaker1:45:31

        Totally.

    24. JSJay Shetty1:45:31

        All right, uh, another one that I love. This, this one really, really hit me, and, and I feel it's gonna resonate with a lot of people if you haven't heard it yet. "People fail not because there's some magical list nobody has. They fail because it's an obvious list nobody does."

    25. SPSpeaker1:45:47

        I'm so happy you like that one. It didn't... Like, I, I just c- just, just to give kudos to Jay here, you picked

24. 1:45:53 – 1:47:05

    The Most Important Step Is Just Start

    1. SPSpeaker1:45:53

       out tweets that were not, like, super banger high performers, but, like, I wrote these and I was like, "This is, like, this is a thing." [laughs]

    2. JSJay Shetty1:45:58

       I picked ones that really-

    3. SPSpeaker1:45:59

       No, no. [laughs]

    4. JSJay Shetty1:46:00

       Like we... I didn't pick them based on performance.

    5. SPSpeaker1:46:01

       No. I-

    6. JSJay Shetty1:46:01

       I picked them based on like, I was like, I read this, I was like, "Yes." Like, yeah.

    7. SPSpeaker1:46:05

       I ho- like the... So just kudos to you for that-

    8. JSJay Shetty1:46:08

       Yeah. Yeah

    9. SPSpeaker1:46:08

       ... 'cause I, it makes me feel good.

    10. JSJay Shetty1:46:09

        Yeah.

    11. SPSpeaker1:46:09

        Um, but yeah, so I mean, this is a super known one, but, like, the magic is in the work that we're not doing, right? It's the obvious list. Um, if you were trying to get in shape, you know you should eat less and you should move more. You know that. And so I used to even do these with when I would have a weight loss customer who'd come in the door, and they'd be like, "So tell me more about the..." And I would just say like, "Do we really need to get into it? Like, you already know what you're supposed to do. The question is why you aren't doing it. That's what I'm here for."

    12. JSJay Shetty1:46:33

        Mm.

    13. SPSpeaker1:46:34

        And so in a lot of these situations, like, you probably know that if you're gonna invest, you should, uh, you know, wait 10 years, and if you're not willing to wait 10 years, then you shouldn't buy it. Which means that if you're like, "Well, I don't have the time to do that research," then n- don't invest. Increase your active income, right? [laughs]

    14. JSJay Shetty1:46:46

        Yeah.

    15. SPSpeaker1:46:47

        Um, and so, and all these things like, "Okay, well, how do I increase my active income? Well, I know I need to do more than I currently am. I know I need to put my stuff out there." And so one of my favorite frames around this is, um, it's, it's the Solomon paradox, right? And so for those who don't know, in the Bible, Solomon, wise, wise man. Um, but it's called Solomon paradox because he gave amazing advice,

25. 1:47:05 – 1:50:35

    Is Work Life Balance Really Achievable?

    1. SPSpeaker1:47:05

       but his life was in shambles. And so the thing is, is that we're exceptionally good at giving advice and very good at, and very bad at following it for ourselves. And so what's interesting is that you... They actually did studies on this where they had people, they, they whitewashed someone's existing circumstances and their conditions and had the same people, not knowing they were criticizing themselves, give critiques to this person on what to do to improve their lives. And the thing is, is that none of the people were actually doing it. [laughs]

    2. JSJay Shetty1:47:27

       That's so good.

    3. SPSpeaker1:47:27

       And so the thing is, um, I like that frame because if you've parachute your, your... Sorry, uh, project yourself in the future and look back and say, "Okay, what would 80-year-old version of me tell me to do?" For some reason, it kind of, like, disembodies yourself a little bit, and you can get back and say, "Well, I would tell myself to do this, this, and this." And the thing is, is that you have complete context on your situation. And so sometimes it's some of the best advice you can get. And I know this is kind of like the inverted thing where you're like, "Oh, well, well, I c- Just actually go through the process and say, "I'm gonna write down a conversation with myself that's 80 years old. What would he or she tell me to do?" Um, and it probably is that obvious list that no one does, not the magical list that no one knows.

    4. JSJay Shetty1:48:04

       Yeah.

    5. SPSpeaker1:48:04

       Because the, the thing is, is that, like, the clues of success are in plain sight. It's just that the sweat that's required, the price tag associated with them is the one that people don't want to pay.

    6. JSJay Shetty1:48:12

       Mm.

    7. SPSpeaker1:48:13

       So people don't really give up on their dreams. They give up... They, they see what it takes to get their dreams and then decide it's too expensive.

    8. JSJay Shetty1:48:21

       Yeah.

    9. SPSpeaker1:48:21

       And I think that's the big thing is, is they think it's mispriced. And maybe it is, and I think that's okay. But my, my preference would be that many people say, "You know what? That's not worth it to me." And then be like, "Great. You've won." [laughs]

    10. JSJay Shetty1:48:33

        Yeah.

    11. SPSpeaker1:48:34

        Like, "You've won. You don't need to get anywhere. You've already won where you're at." So that's at least my, my thought on it.

    12. JSJay Shetty1:48:38

        Yeah. I love that. How does it... How does someone who listens to this episode versus someone who applies this episode live differently today or tomorrow?

    13. SPSpeaker1:48:50

        Well, if someone just listens to the episode, tomorrow will be the same for you. Uh, so that's, that's an easy one.

    14. JSJay Shetty1:48:55

        Okay.

    15. SPSpeaker1:48:55

        This was just entertainment for you. Just define in terms of actions what you are going to do. I mean, that is really it. And so, like, you can prove to yourself that you learned something from this podcast rather than just being entertained by this podcast by simply doing something different, taking an action. And so maybe it is just recording that selfie video and texting it to 100 people. That's it. You could just do that, and you would have... I mean, you would be so much further ahead than, than you were yesterday. And what's crazy is that the amount of, uh, progress that you make in that first 20 hours is greater than any amount of progress that you will likely make over the remainder of your career. Because going from absolutely terrible to proficient happens so fast. Now, to be clear, all of the gains come from going from proficient to master, which take a huge amount of time, but it's, it's one of the most exciting times because you're like, "Oh my, look, I can build an app now," or, "Look, I can build a webpage," or, "Look, I c- I, I can, I can show other people how to sell stuff," whatever it is. And I think I would, I would just wanna get to that. Like, get to that fast learning curve as fast as you can, and the only way we can do that is starting.

    16. JSJay Shetty1:49:51

        Mm. Love it. All right, here's another one. I don't know if it's a popular one or not, but deleting work-life balance for a season nets you more work-life balance over a lifetime.

    17. SPSpeaker1:50:01

        So I, I love this, uh, frame shift, which is everyone talks about work-life balance, but no one talks about it over what timeline.

    18. JSJay Shetty1:50:08

        Mm-hmm.

    19. SPSpeaker1:50:09

        Paul Graham said this from Y Combinator. He said, um, "In order to make a million dollars, you have to endure a million dollars' worth of pain." And so you might be able to endure a million dollars' worth of pain over 40 years, or you can crunch it into four crazy years, and then after that, you can have whatever you wanna have afterwards. And so I, I think about life in seasons rather than in, you know, on, on microcosm of days and, and even weeks. And I think that shifting that perspective will really only solve

26. 1:50:35 – 1:55:17

    Be More Productive by Eliminating Everything Unnecessary

    1. SPSpeaker1:50:35

       one core problem for people, which is that they feel like they are doing something wrong by making a sacrifice today. And there's always going... And again, it's an eternal question. How much do I, how much do I risk? Uh, how much do I consume versus invest? These are classic human problems that will never have a correct answer, and it's more what's the correct answer for you in your season right now based on the goals you have. And so I think, if anything, I would want that quote to give some people permissionTo work a weekend every once in a while.

    2. JSJay Shetty1:50:59

       Mm.

    3. SPSpeaker1:50:59

       To, to take the 5:00 to 9:00 on both sides of the day and say, "You know what? I am going to be unbalanced, and that's okay." Because at least in my observation, and probably yours, I have yet to see a hyper-successful person who doesn't have a wildly unbalanced life, or at least for a significant period of time.

    4. JSJay Shetty1:51:14

       Yeah.

    5. SPSpeaker1:51:14

       And we wanna just make sure that we're not looking at someone once they are a billionaire and saying, "What are they doing now?" Because they might be in a different season now. And so don't look at what, you know, Warren Buffett's doing now when he says, "If I make two good decisions a year, I've had a good year." Well, if you make two good decisions a year, you're still probably [laughs]

    6. JSJay Shetty1:51:28

       [laughs]

    7. SPSpeaker1:51:29

       You're not gonna be Warren Buffett, right?

    8. JSJay Shetty1:51:30

       Yeah.

    9. SPSpeaker1:51:30

       Um, and so I, I think about that as my, as, as, uh, my frame.

    10. JSJay Shetty1:51:34

        Yeah, don't read someone's chapter 20 when you're writing your chapter one.

    11. SPSpeaker1:51:37

        Yeah.

    12. JSJay Shetty1:51:37

        Like, it doesn't make any sense.

    13. SPSpeaker1:51:38

        Love it.

    14. JSJay Shetty1:51:39

        And I remember growing up... Uh, not growing up. I remember a few years ago when Gary, Gary's version that I loved, which was like in his words-

    15. SPSpeaker1:51:47

        Mm-hmm

    16. JSJay Shetty1:51:47

        ... and so I'll say, "Eat shit for two years, and then eat caviar for the rest of your life."

    17. SPSpeaker1:51:50

        Yeah.

    18. JSJay Shetty1:51:51

        And it was so interesting to me how much you could do in two years-

    19. SPSpeaker1:51:54

        Yeah

    20. JSJay Shetty1:51:54

        ... if you just went all in.

    21. SPSpeaker1:51:56

        Absurd.

    22. JSJay Shetty1:51:56

        As opposed to this idea of like, "I'm gonna be really balanced for 10 years." And I was thinking about it the other day, and you said seasons, and I was saying this the other day when I was on tour. I was talking to Jesse Itzler.

    23. SPSpeaker1:52:05

        Mm-hmm.

    24. JSJay Shetty1:52:06

        And I said this to Jesse. We were talking about something similar, and I was just like, "I would never want a day... A perfect day is not a day where it rains, snows-

    25. SPSpeaker1:52:15

        [laughs]

    26. JSJay Shetty1:52:15

        ... sun, and fall," right?

    27. SPSpeaker1:52:17

        Yeah.

    28. JSJay Shetty1:52:17

        Like, that's not a perfect day.

    29. SPSpeaker1:52:18

        Right.

    30. JSJay Shetty1:52:18

        Like, you wouldn't say that. You wouldn't say, "I hope it rains today. I hope it snows today."
27. 1:55:17 – 1:59:13

    Alex on Final Five

    1. JSJay Shetty1:55:17

       I need natural light.

    2. SPSpeaker1:55:18

       Okay. Yeah, yeah.

    3. JSJay Shetty1:55:18

       But I need to not see anything real happening.

    4. SPSpeaker1:55:21

       Yeah, okay.

    5. JSJay Shetty1:55:21

       So it's like sky, tree...

    6. SPSpeaker1:55:22

       Yeah.

    7. JSJay Shetty1:55:22

       But it's like, it's, uh, nondescript, and there's not like-

    8. SPSpeaker1:55:26

       Not a mall. [laughs]

    9. JSJay Shetty1:55:26

       Correct. Yeah, not people.

    10. SPSpeaker1:55:28

        Yeah, right. Exactly. [laughs]

    11. JSJay Shetty1:55:28

        It can't be people. And I, I can't work in noisy coffee shop.

    12. SPSpeaker1:55:31

        Yeah.

    13. JSJay Shetty1:55:31

        Like, I can't work in environments like that.

    14. SPSpeaker1:55:33

        Oh.

    15. JSJay Shetty1:55:33

        And to me, the environment is more important than this whole mood builder thing-

    16. SPSpeaker1:55:38

        Yeah

    17. JSJay Shetty1:55:38

        ... because that's like deep work.

    18. SPSpeaker1:55:40

        Yeah.

    19. JSJay Shetty1:55:40

        Like, you're in the cave doing the thing.

    20. SPSpeaker1:55:43

        Can I, can I tell a wild example?

    21. JSJay Shetty1:55:44

        Yeah.

    22. SPSpeaker1:55:44

        So I believe you c- if you control the conditions, you can control the outcome, right? If you know all the variables. And so if we wanna be productive, we wanna control as many of those conditions as possible. And so to take a hyp- hypothetical extreme, if I were to say, "Hey, I guarantee, um, that everybody who's listening to this, if we were all in one room, I could get everyone naked without saying a word."

    23. JSJay Shetty1:56:00

        [laughs]

    24. SPSpeaker1:56:00

        People would just hear that and be like, "Oh my God, that's insane."

    25. JSJay Shetty1:56:02

        Yeah.

    26. SPSpeaker1:56:03

        What I would do is I would lock all the doors, and I would turn up the, the heat to 200 and then just wait.

    27. JSJay Shetty1:56:07

        [laughs]

    28. SPSpeaker1:56:07

        And eventually everyone would get naked, and the point to that is that we can reconstruct the environment to get the desired outcome if we control as many of those variables as possible. And so you, if you don't feel as productive as you want, you get distracted easily, you might not have even given yourself a shot.

    29. JSJay Shetty1:56:21

        Mm.

    30. SPSpeaker1:56:22

        Right? If you're trying to work while having your notifications on, while letting people text you and call you, and you're at, you know, in a, in an area where people are coming by and being like, "Is this, is this chair free? Is this table free?" And you're constantly getting pulled, it's like you haven't even gotten a chance. And maybe you have a roommate who, who walks in and out.

Episode duration: 2:02:52