Dr. Becky Kennedy: The #1 Mistake Parents Make That Kills Confidence in Their Kids!

1. 0:00 – 2:49

   Intro

   1. SPSpeaker0:00

      We've gone from not caring about kids' emotions to being scared of kids' emotions. The more you optimize for happiness in childhood, the more you actually wire for anxiety in adulthood. Dr. Becky Kennedy. Dr. Becky Kennedy. The go-to voice for modern parenting. Helping parents break cycles and build connections.

   2. JSJay Shetty0:16

      What actually makes a good parent?

   3. SPSpeaker0:18

      Repair, without a doubt, is the most important parenting strategy.

   4. JSJay Shetty0:22

      What's the worst thing a parent can say to a child that's going through a difficult time?

   5. SPSpeaker0:27

      I don't care about your feelings. I'm not listening. I'm not really connecting. I am telling you what to do. I'm leading with control.

   6. JSJay Shetty0:34

      Can you be your kid's best friend and still set boundaries?

   7. SPSpeaker0:37

      Kids need us to embody our authority. Boundaries and validation when paired together, that's what makes for really resilient adults.

   8. JSJay Shetty0:45

      What's the cost of being a good kid who never caused problems?

   9. SPSpeaker0:49

      You can't learn to manage emotions you feel like you're not allowed to have. If we can't tolerate the challenging feelings our kids have, and we look for a quick distraction, what they learn is, "I'm a kid, and I find my feelings overwhelming, but oh my goodness, my parent finds my feelings overwhelming."

   10. JSJay Shetty1:07

       You've said it's not your job to make your kids happy.

   11. SPSpeaker1:10

       Yeah.

   12. JSJay Shetty1:10

       Then what is a parent's job?

   13. JSJay Shetty1:15

       The number one health and wellness podcast.

   14. JSJay Shetty1:18

       Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. The one, the only Jay Shetty. [laughs] Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier, and more healed. I'm so grateful that I get to talk to today's thought leaders and experts about the things that matter, that make a difference in our daily lives. And today's topic is something I'm fascinated by. It's something I talk to my wife Radhi about a lot, and it's something that takes a lot of my mind space, even though I'm not one of these yet. But today's topic is parenting, and today's guest is Dr. Becky Kennedy, clinical psychologist, best-selling author, and founder of Good Inside, a global parenting and mental health platform. Named by Time as the Millennial Parent Whisperer, Dr. Becky is known for bringing practical, compassionate tools that help families and individuals thrive. Dr. Becky's best-selling book, Good Inside, has helped over a million people feel seen and supported through life's toughest moments. And in today's episode, we dive into how to honor hard emotions, set healthy boundaries, and grow through the everyday challenges of parenting and connection. In all honesty, I've sparked so many of the best conversations I've had around becoming a parent because of Dr. Becky Kennedy's work, so I'm so excited to have her on the show today. Becky, welcome to On Purpose.

   15. SPSpeaker2:37

       Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.

   16. JSJay Shetty2:39

       It's so great to have you here. I want to start off by diving into just things that you say that really stick with me, and I go, "Oh, yes, that, that's... I, I feel like that resonates." You said, "We've

2. 2:49 – 6:03

   Should Kids Dictate Parenting Styles?

   1. JSJay Shetty2:49

      gone from not caring about kids' feelings to letting kids' feelings dictate what we do as parents."

   2. SPSpeaker2:56

      Yeah.

   3. JSJay Shetty2:56

      And when you said that, of course, I'm looking at this as someone who wants to be a parent, but I'm looking at parents around me. That idea that we all feel we grew up at a time when our parents didn't care, they weren't present, they didn't know what was going on with our feelings and emotions. We've now gotten to a place of our kids' feelings dictating what we do.

   4. SPSpeaker3:16

      Yeah.

   5. JSJay Shetty3:17

      Talk to me about that.

   6. SPSpeaker3:18

      Yeah. I, I think naming this overcorrection is really helpful because yes, decades ago, I mean, probably in still some families now, right? It's, I don't know, let's say some version of, "I don't want to go to Aunt Sally's house." "I don't care if you want to go to Aunt Sally's house. Put on a smile, put on your shoes or else," and then some consequence, right? Okay, that would be, "I don't care about your feelings. I'm not listening. I'm not really connecting. I am telling you what to do. I'm leading with control." And I think there's a generation of people who are like, "That didn't feel good," you know? And we also know that emotions and learning how to understand your emotions, how to manage your emotions, you can't learn to manage emotions. You feel like you're not allowed to have disappointment as a kid. How could you ever manage disappointment as an adult? So it's not really the pathway to strength and resilience, right? But yes, what I've noticed is something completely overcorrected that I would say is equally as bad for kids. Same situation. "I don't want to go to Aunt Sally's today. It's so boring. I want to hang out with my friends." "Okay, you know what?" And then fill in the blank. "I'll get a sitter. I'll stay home. Uh, let me call three different people and, you know, see what you can do." And there's so many examples of this. "I don't want to leave the playground." "Okay, well, I guess we'll stay at the playground longer." And it's not to say I'm against parent flexibility. Sometimes, of course, we can be flexible. But we've gone from not caring about kids' emotions to being scared of kids' emotions. That's why we let them run the show. That's why we give our kids' emotions kind of the, the steering wheel, and I think what we stand for at Good Inside is something remarkably in the middle. It is very important to see your kids' feelings as real. That's really what it is. That's what validation is. It's the process of saying to someone else kind of, "I might not be feeling what you're feeling, but what you are feeling is real, and I am interested in learning about it." I think that's very important. "Ugh, you don't want to go to Sally's house. I get it. You'd rather be sitting home and watching the basketball game on TV. Totally hear you." And then I think there's a well-placed and, 'cause that is part of our job. Empathizing with a kid's feelings is only half of your job as a parent. The other half is setting a true boundary. Is what I think of as authority without aggression, which is rarely modeled, but is important, which is some version of, "We committed to going to Aunt Sally's as a family, and the truth is, there's a good amount of things we all have to do that aren't number one on our agenda, that are even a little bit boring. This is one of those things. It's okay if you whine on the way there. I know when we get there, you're gonna be able to pull it together. It's not gonna be your most fun Saturday, but we'll get through it as a family. All right? What kind of music do you want to listen to in the car?"

   7. JSJay Shetty6:01

      [laughs]

   8. SPSpeaker6:01

      [laughs]

   9. JSJay Shetty6:02

      Yeah.

3. 6:03 – 10:43

   Building Tolerance As A Skill

   1. JSJay Shetty6:03

      Why do we find that so tough? Why is that so hard to do as a parent?

   2. SPSpeaker6:07

      I think there's so many factors. So I think part of it is actually just a lack of confusion in teaching, right? I think we can get into this bigger conversation. I'll just name it and not go into it now. Parenting is the last job in the world where we glorify instinct alone. We haven't been taught, well, how do I connect to my kid but also hold a boundary, right? It would be like telling a surgeon to do surgery without medical school. That's kind of what we do to parents. So it's really hard-

   3. JSJay Shetty6:33

      Send them home with a baby.

   4. SPSpeaker6:35

      Yeah, literally, right? And I, I remember going home with a baby. I looked around. Really? Like, no one's... Just, just a car seat? Like, I, I remember looking around, and no one was coming. I was like, "Guess I'm good. Okay." Um, that's what we do, and it's the hardest job in the world. So I think part of it is, how can you employ a skill in a difficult situation when you've never been taught a skill, and that skill wasn't modeled in your own childhood? So I think that's number one. Number two, and this is, like, a really big one for kind of why right now is this so powerful, so much of parenting is inconvenient. It's just the word that's not talked about enough for parenting. When you have to get out your door to go to Aunt Sally's 50th luncheon, which my guess is maybe you're not really even dying to do either, there's a lot of frustration. Like, your kid is whining. Your kid is saying why they shouldn't go. And if I think about where parenting is today versus decades ago, I think us adults, we've become less and less tolerant of frustration.

   5. JSJay Shetty7:36

      Mm-hmm.

   6. SPSpeaker7:36

      We have our phones. We have our dopamine. We have so much more ease in our life. And one of the things I always think about is our kids can't learn to tolerate feelings we don't tolerate in them. So if I have an increasingly lowered frustration tolerance because of all of the ease and dopamine hits in my life, I am inherently less tolerant of my kids whining.

   7. JSJay Shetty8:00

      Wow.

   8. SPSpeaker8:01

      And then the reason I let my kids' whining take the driver's seat, and I say, "Fine, you know what? Just go to your friend's house," I actually think it doesn't even have to do with making our kid happy, which I don't think is good as a predominant philosophy either. I, I actually just wanna stop feeling frustrated myself. I just don't wanna deal with it. So if we can't tolerate our kids' disappointment or frustration, they're not learning to, which is why then it looks like their emotions are making all the decisions.

   9. JSJay Shetty8:29

      Wow. That, that's extremely powerful, which is why because they can't tolerate their feelings because of our reaction to their feelings, they now don't actually develop resilience or grit or all the things we want them to develop because tolerance and knowing how to accept and sit in the feeling is such an important skill set.

   10. SPSpeaker8:48

       I, I mean, this is everything, right? I think, uh, I'm a visual person, so I've done this before, but I think it matters [laughs] that, you know, if we think about kids, they're born into the world, and they're born with all the feelings and none of the skills to manage feelings. There's a gap, all the feelings, none of the skills. Bad behavior, whether it's a four-year-old hitting their sister, whether it's your teenager saying, "I'm not going to s- Aunt Sally's," whether a kid is saying, "I hate you. You're the worst mom. I don't wanna be in this family," lying to your face, every single acting-out behavior is a sign that feelings are greater than skills. But the problem isn't the feelings. The problem is the lack of skills.

   11. JSJay Shetty9:29

       Mm-hmm.

   12. SPSpeaker9:29

       So the answer to, over time, having a lot better behavior or something more powerful than behavior, it's building skills.

   13. JSJay Shetty9:36

       Mm-hmm.

   14. SPSpeaker9:36

       Building emotion regulation skills. Kids are not born with those skills, and we as parents, we are kind of the coaches. But I think as our life gets so busy, right, as we're more distracted... And, and just to be clear, let me say right away, I'm not, like, above this. I'm not like, "You should all watch me. I'm a perfectly present parent all the time." No, right? Modern life is so hard, right? But yes, if we can't tolerate the challenging feelings our kids have, and we look for a quick distraction or a quick exit for them right away, then what they learn is something really interesting. What they learn is, "I'm a kid, and I find my feelings overwhelming, but oh my goodness, my parent finds my feelings overwhelming. The things that feel scary and toxic to me, maybe they really are scary and toxic." A- and then, you know, things can kind of go from there.

   15. JSJay Shetty10:30

       Yeah, and I think one of the challenges with that is that not only do the kids not have the skills, we potentially as adults have never had time to develop the skills ourselves, and no one taught us, and so that pattern continues.

4. 10:43 – 18:27

   How To Overcome Mom Guilt

   1. JSJay Shetty10:43

      How do you overcome mom guilt?

   2. SPSpeaker10:45

      Ugh, such a good question. So, uh, let me paint the scenario 'cause I wanna know if we're-

   3. JSJay Shetty10:49

      Please

   4. SPSpeaker10:49

      ... talking about the same thing.

   5. JSJay Shetty10:50

      Mm-hmm.

   6. SPSpeaker10:50

      So I'll hear... And what I kind of referred to before as a situation, like I'm going out to dinner with my friends, um, and it's often I haven't seen a group of my friends without kids around in, I don't know, however long, a long time.

   7. JSJay Shetty11:03

      Mm-hmm.

   8. SPSpeaker11:03

      But then I have my daughter, my son clinging to my leg. "Mom, you never put me to bed." And meanwhile, in this situation, if it's, like, my house, I've, like, put my kid to bed for the last 37 nights, okay? But still in that moment, it's like, "You never put me to bed." And then what a mom will often say to me is, "I feel so guilty. Like, I feel so guilty, it's not even worth going out to dinner. Like, it's not even worth it." I don't know. Is that kind of along the lines?

   9. JSJay Shetty11:25

      Mm-hmm.

   10. SPSpeaker11:25

       Okay.

   11. JSJay Shetty11:25

       That's spot on.

   12. SPSpeaker11:26

       Great. Okay. So, uh, the way I see this, I actually don't think we're talking about guilt here. I don't. I think this is a misunderstanding of what guilt is.

   13. JSJay Shetty11:36

       Mm. Mm.

   14. SPSpeaker11:37

       So I'll start with that. To me, guilt is a feeling you have when you act out of alignment with your values, and in that way, it's a very important feeling. Like, all of our feelings are important for information 'cause it helps you have enough discomfort to reflect on like, "Well, what are my values?" Like, if I no-showed to this podcast and didn't even text you, I'd feel guilty. It is not within my value system-

   15. JSJay Shetty12:00

       Mm

   16. SPSpeaker12:00

       ... to no-show on people, right? That would be helpful, and I'd think, "Why did I do that?" Right?But what I hear all the time from moms is, "Going out to dinner, my kid's clinging, I feel guilty." So I'll say, "Okay, really, is it within your value system," and only you would know this, "while you're a mother-

   17. JSJay Shetty12:17

       Mm

   18. SPSpeaker12:18

       ... to see your friends some of the time?"

   19. JSJay Shetty12:20

       Mm-hmm.

   20. SPSpeaker12:21

       100% of moms say, "Yeah." So I say, "Okay, so this is interesting. This is definitely a painful experience, but this is not guilt. This literally isn't guilt," and here's what I think it is. I think as women especially, but it's not only for women, going back to that good girl idea, we've developed the tendency to scan our environment-

   21. JSJay Shetty12:43

       Mm

   22. SPSpeaker12:43

       ... and see other people who are upset with us, and we kind of do this. We're like, "You're feeling uncomfortable. I will take that feeling out of your body, I will take it into my body, and I will call it guilt."

   23. JSJay Shetty12:57

       Mm.

   24. SPSpeaker12:58

       "And I will change something I'm doing so you don't have to feel that way."

   25. JSJay Shetty13:02

       Mm.

   26. SPSpeaker13:03

       That's not guilt. That's actually emotional confusion.

   27. JSJay Shetty13:07

       Mm.

   28. SPSpeaker13:07

       And, and I find visuals helpful, so to me, if you picture yourself on a tennis court, let's say I'm on one side, and my daughter who's clinging to me is on the other side, but instead of a tennis net, let's say there's a glass wall. What will happen is I'm like, "Okay, I'm on my side. I know I wanna go to dinner with my friends. I haven't seen them. It's important. It's within my value system. I'm grounded in that." Over there is my daughter who's upset. Number one of two things are true can help here. Two things are true: I'm allowed to go out to dinner, my daughter's allowed to go upset, to be upset, period. But if I picture that tennis court, the reason it's helpful is I now picture my kid, [laughs] "You never put me to bed. I'm so upset." It's actually really powerful how many people have told me it's true. It's like somehow those feelings in her body start to come out-

   29. JSJay Shetty13:49

       Mm

   30. SPSpeaker13:49

       ... and start to come to my side of the court. And all of a sudden they're on my side, and I'm saying things like, "Don't you want me to be happy?" Or, "Fine, I'll cancel." And actually, the interesting thing is I'm not even doing that for my daughter at this point. That's why it's not guilt.
5. 18:27 – 21:50

   Becoming a Mom Shouldn't Be Endured Alone

   1. JSJay Shetty18:27

      [swoosh] And I know you've also said that women in particular feel a pressure because there's always been this idea that women should have a maternal instinct.

   2. SPSpeaker18:36

      [sighs]

   3. JSJay Shetty18:36

      And you talk about parenting being a skill-

   4. SPSpeaker18:38

      Yeah

   5. JSJay Shetty18:38

      ... as much as the kids needing these skills as they're growing up, and women have this unfair pressure of, "Well, it's natural to you."

   6. SPSpeaker18:47

      I mean, I think that that's the thing when I became a mom that was so personally striking. This idea of maternal instinct I think has had a profound impact on our culture, right? Because I'm not saying there's nothing about parenting that's instinctual. I think we instinctually love our kid or there's certain moments that come naturally, but yet when your kid is having a grocery store meltdown and the mom you're trying to become friends with is kind of watching you in the store, right? When your kid says, "I hate you. You're the worst parent in the world," when your kid is delaying, I don't know, a bedtime or brushing their teeth, when your kid lies to your face, "I didn't take money," and you, like, see the Nest Cam of them taking money, we're saying we think our instinct is going to lead to good decisions. No, most people I know would say, "My instinct is telling me to scream in my child's face."

   7. JSJay Shetty19:33

      Mm-hmm.

   8. SPSpeaker19:33

      You know why? Because your parent probably screamed in your face, because they didn't have the resources they need, right? And over and over, I'd be meeting parents, it was so interesting, and it was mostly moms who would tell me always some version of the same story. They'd come at a live event, they'd say something nice, and then they would unload, and it was kind of some version of, "I go to bed feeling awful about myself. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm yelling at my kids all the time. I feel like I'm a monster. I feel like I'm messing my kids up forever," right? And then I would kind of contain the situation, I'd listen, and then I'd dig in, 'cause I always want to know when someone's struggling so much, what resources do they have? And I'd always hear the same thing. "Resources, like, this shouldn't be this hard. It shouldn't be this hard. I should be able to figure this out on my own." I don't know, it just, it was striking. If I think about the best athletes in the world, even the ones who have amazing athletic instinct, right? I don't know, Steph Curry, uh, LeBron James. Like, I'm pretty sure they had a lot of coaching.

   9. JSJay Shetty20:31

      [laughs] Yeah.

   10. SPSpeaker20:32

       Like, I'm pretty sure they weren't like, "Coaching's not for me. I should be able to figure out this basketball thing on my own." It's really interesting. I think people in almost every other field, they take pride in coaching.

   11. JSJay Shetty20:43

       Mm-hmm.

   12. SPSpeaker20:43

       I even think the best CEOs now, it w- it's, it's almost embarrassing if you don't have an executive coach.

   13. JSJay Shetty20:48

       Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

   14. SPSpeaker20:49

       And you don't just get your advice on Instagram. Like, you really have knowledge and learning, and you dig in, and you feel good about it.

   15. JSJay Shetty20:55

       Mm-hmm.

   16. SPSpeaker20:55

       And so yeah, if something is supposed to be done by pure instinct, then the only explanation for why you're struggling i- is that you're broken.

   17. JSJay Shetty21:03

       Yeah.

   18. SPSpeaker21:04

       A- a- and I feel very passionately about changing [laughs] that narrative.

   19. JSJay Shetty21:08

       Yeah. And I, I, I believe you are. And to that point that you're saying, I mean, I had the fortune of interviewing Kobe Bryant before he tragically passed away, around three months before, and he was so clear about the fact that he just put in more time. So it... He was, exactly what you're saying, it's reaffirming your point. He was actually doing double the coaching that everyone else was.

   20. SPSpeaker21:30

       Right.

   21. JSJay Shetty21:30

       So he was in the gym before everyone got in the gym, then he did what everyone else was doing in the gym, and then he'd go home and work out again.

   22. SPSpeaker21:36

       Yeah.

   23. JSJay Shetty21:37

       And so you've got this person investing and doubling down into coaching, as opposed to saying, "Oh, I'm actually naturally gifted, and I don't really need that," even after winning two, three, four, and then eventually five championships.

6. 21:50 – 29:30

   What is the Best Parenting Strategy?

   1. JSJay Shetty21:50

      I wanted to ask you about that point, because you talk about this idea of parents not being perfect-

   2. SPSpeaker21:54

      Yes

   3. JSJay Shetty21:55

      ... but being good at repairing.

   4. SPSpeaker21:56

      Yes.

   5. JSJay Shetty21:57

      Which I really, really value as an idea, because I do think we all want to get it perfect the first time, and that's our instinct. [laughs] And like you said, the natural instinct, even though we want to get it perfect as a desire, the natural instinct in any of those circumstances is to act out, is to shout, scream, yell, instruct, direct, dictate. And you gave a few really great anecdotal examples there, but very real ones as well. Talk to me about what parents instinctually do, so that we just normalize the fact that it's okay-

   6. SPSpeaker22:30

      Yeah

   7. JSJay Shetty22:30

      ... because no one's gonna [laughs] get it right the first time.

   8. SPSpeaker22:32

      Yeah.

   9. JSJay Shetty22:32

      And then talk to me about how you've repaired that, given one of those types of scenarios of going to Aunt Sally's or screaming in the playground or...

   10. SPSpeaker22:41

       Great. Repair, without a doubt, is the most important parenting strategy. I would say repair is the most important relationship strategy, 'cause I think everything we talk about at Good Inside is as relevant in a partnership or at work, with yourself, any relationship. So let's start with this desire to be perfect. I think this is especially true with moms. I don't hear it as much from dads, honestly.

   11. JSJay Shetty23:00

       [laughs]

   12. SPSpeaker23:00

       And I think this goes back to a lot of gender roles. I think a lot of us were socialized to be good girls, which I now put in quotes, 'cause I realize being a good girl just means being trained to gaze out and notice what everyone in the world wants from you, and to become as distant as possible from gazing in and noticing what you might want for yourself.

   13. JSJay Shetty23:22

       Mm-hmm.

   14. SPSpeaker23:22

       That's really what it means.

   15. JSJay Shetty23:24

       Mm-hmm.

   16. SPSpeaker23:24

       How can I please you?

   17. JSJay Shetty23:25

       It's a great definition.

   18. SPSpeaker23:25

       Yeah. How can I please you? How can I, how can I meet your need before you even have a need? I notice you're twitching. You're about to get mad. I also know you kind of like this kind of drink, so I'm gonna go make you an iced tea and bring it to you, right? You're looking everywhere and meeting everyone's needs all the time, right? And I think a lot of girls, they learn that that's where their value was a- and I think that's where they, therefore, they feel safest.

   19. JSJay Shetty23:47

       Mm.

   20. SPSpeaker23:47

       Right? Is when I'm getting it right for everyone else.

   21. JSJay Shetty23:50

       Yeah.

   22. SPSpeaker23:51

       So now we have parenting, right? I mean, people often ask me, like, "Is there a perfect parent? Are you a perfect parent?" I am definitely not a perfect parent. There's no such thing as a perfect parent, and I just even want to say, I don't even think it would be a good thing for a kid to have a perfect parent. Because the dynamic you establish with your kid, the relationship with your kid is the foundation for every relationship they'll have after that, and I, I know it's heavy, but it's true, so I'll say it. The nature of a relationship you develop with your kid is alsoGoing to impact who they're even attracted to in adulthood

   23. JSJay Shetty24:28

       Mm-hmm

   24. SPSpeaker24:28

       'cause we're attracted to what feels like home.

   25. JSJay Shetty24:31

       Mm-hmm.

   26. SPSpeaker24:31

       Right? For better or for worse [laughs] as a natural attraction.

   27. JSJay Shetty24:34

       Yeah.

   28. SPSpeaker24:35

       So I don't think any of us think it's adaptive for a kid to go into the teen, adult years, like, "Who is that person out there who's perfectly attuned to my needs all the time?"

   29. JSJay Shetty24:42

       Mm-hmm.

   30. SPSpeaker24:42

       Like, I'm sure you and your wife, that's not the way your relationship works.
7. 29:30 – 34:18

   The First Step Of Repair

   1. JSJay Shetty29:30

      really lands well because I was thinking about when we were all learning how to drive, it was inevitable that at some point we'd have an accident. So you wanted to be mindful. You didn't wanna be neglectful when you were a driver and when you were trained. I've had car accidents, and I think I'm a pretty good driver. I'm assuming with your nodding, you-

   2. SPSpeaker29:47

      Right there with you

   3. JSJay Shetty29:47

      ... you've had a car accident, and my wife's had car accidents. Thankfully nothing too dangerous for any of us and anyone I know. But the reality is you're going to have some sort of an accident.

   4. SPSpeaker29:57

      Yeah.

   5. JSJay Shetty29:57

      And the biggest mistake you can make is to not repair your car [laughs] when you have an accident and just keep driving that car around and getting into more accidents, and so that lands really, really well.

   6. SPSpeaker30:06

      Yeah.

   7. JSJay Shetty30:06

      Because it would be really strange if someone had told me that I was never allowed to scratch my alloys or a rim or a hubcap or a, a side of my car, and I had to, like, drive with that level of... I would probably have an accident simply [laughs] because I was overthinking the whole thing.

   8. SPSpeaker30:23

      That, that's right, or stay in your room all day.

   9. JSJay Shetty30:25

      Yeah, you wouldn't even go out.

   10. SPSpeaker30:26

       Right? I mean, a life worth living has-Inherent risk

   11. JSJay Shetty30:30

       Mm-hmm

   12. SPSpeaker30:31

       Right? [laughs] And so, yeah, I think that's a really good metaphor. You're going to make mistakes as a parent.

   13. JSJay Shetty30:37

       Mm-hmm.

   14. SPSpeaker30:38

       And if you see that as kind of a feature, not a bug-

   15. JSJay Shetty30:40

       Mm-hmm

   16. SPSpeaker30:40

       ... [laughs] then, then you can change the focus to, "Okay, what now?" A- and look, while we're talking about repair, I, I think it's important to get in that one of the, the biggest things that gets in our way of repairing with our kid is that most of us haven't learned to repair with ourselves. Because what happens is we do this thing. I yell at my kid, I say they're a spoiled brat, whatever happens in the kitchen when my son simply says, "Maybe it's even just chicken for dinner again," but it's just enough for... You know, it feels like he's telling me I'm a bad mom, [laughs] you know, or something like that. So I've done this thing, and for so many people, they might have someone in their life where like this person is so stubborn, they never apologize, they're so cold-hearted. I, I see it a little differently. I tend to use like a most generous interpretation, MGI, perspective. I think people who really don't apologize, they have a really hard time separating identity from behavior, and that idea of separating who we are from what we do, identity from behavior, is like a core principle at Good Inside and a core way we teach parents to see themselves and their kids, right? It, it's the difference between, "I yelled and I'm a monster" versus, "I am a good parent who had a moment I'm really not proud of." And I actually find doing that with our hands really powerful because you can see the difference. "I'm a good parent," identity, one hand, "who did something I'm not proud of," another hand. Versus, "Ugh, I yelled. I'm a monster. Something's wrong with me," it's an immediate... Th- there's no separation. We can't repair from this place. We can't even function from this place. The saddest thing is we can't learn from this place. It's shame, right? Shame is an animal defense freeze response. We all should know, right, when you are frozen, you can't make movement. And so people who don't apologize, they usually have to hold this thing they did so far away from them. They can't even look at it-

   17. JSJay Shetty32:23

       Mm-hmm

   18. SPSpeaker32:23

       ... because it feels so eviscerating to their identity. So I actually think a first step for repair, "I just yelled at my kid," I mean, very practically for me, I, I, if I'm in some shame spiral, I sit somewhere quiet. It's often, you know, my bathroom. I close the door. I sit on the toilet. I put my hand on my heart, put my feet on the ground, and I do say to myself a bunch of times, 5, 10, sometimes 20, "Okay, Becky, I made a mistake. I'm a good parent who did something I'm not proud of." Even, "I'm a good parent who yelled." Like, "I'm a good parent who" forces us, as a sentence structure, to separate those two things, and then it's interesting. I'm in a place where I can think about it more. Also, even before I repair with my kid, what was going on? I had a really bad day. I honestly haven't worked out in a while. I know that's something I need to do for myself. Um, I was really frustrated from work, and I honestly just did not take a moment in my lobby to sit down and talk to myself about it, and you know what? I was probably just a ticking time bomb. I need to... A couple things. I need to look at my calendar and do something for me. I need to take some deep breaths in the middle of the day. I need to sit in my lobby before I go upstairs and say, "What was the most stressful part of my day? Let me write about it. Let me do something to manage my emotions." The only reason I can go through that learning process is actually because I've been able to separate what I did from who I was.

   19. JSJay Shetty33:42

       Mm-hmm.

   20. SPSpeaker33:42

       And now I can go to my son or my daughter, whoever it is, and actually give them a repair. And the other thing is when we don't repair with ourself, we do weird repairs with our kids, and they're not repairs. They're either, "I'm sorry I yelled, but if you didn't complain about dinner, it wouldn't have happened," that is not a repair.

   21. JSJay Shetty33:56

       Mm-hmm.

   22. SPSpeaker33:57

       Or we say something like, "I'm sorry I yelled. It's, it's okay, right? Uh, it's okay, right? You forgive me?" Like, we ask our kid to do our job for us. Like, I picture like this five-year-old kid who's like, "You're, you're asking me to take care of your emotions after you yelled at me?" That is not a relationship pattern we want to [laughs] establish, right?

8. 34:18 – 36:54

   How to Reconcile with Your Kid

   1. JSJay Shetty34:18

      Mm-hmm. That resonates so strongly. Yeah, I feel like if you don't go back and do the separation of the identity and behavior on your own, the kid actually just goes, "I'm just not gonna say how I feel around Mom or Dad"

   2. SPSpeaker34:29

      Yeah

   3. JSJay Shetty34:29

      ... or, "Mom's just angry," or, "Dad's just mad," or whatever, and then that becomes the label. Whereas when you actually get to go up to them and say, "Hey, I had a really tough day at work today. That doesn't excuse how I behaved with you"

   4. SPSpeaker34:41

      Yeah

   5. JSJay Shetty34:41

      ... "I'm really sorry about it," and, um, you know, yeah, and, and then, you know, that, that kind of-

   6. SPSpeaker34:47

      That's right

   7. JSJay Shetty34:47

      ... ability to even get them to g- have some context without making it their fault-

   8. SPSpeaker34:51

      That's exactly right

   9. JSJay Shetty34:52

      ... I think what, what you're saying when we repair wrongly, we may give them the context, but make it their fault. Like, "Hey, I had a really tough day today, so if you didn't say chicken wasn't terrible-

   10. SPSpeaker35:00

       Right

   11. JSJay Shetty35:00

       ... I would've been fine."

   12. SPSpeaker35:01

       Right.

   13. JSJay Shetty35:01

       "So I hope you understand I had a bad day." And it's like, oh, well, wait a minute, like, that's too much for me to handle right now.

   14. SPSpeaker35:06

       That's exactly right. Like, a- and the thing that always, like, creeps me out in a good way, 'cause it makes me not do this, is I picture my son, I don't know, now he's 30, 40. Let's say he's partnered, and I'm at his house visiting, and he, like, screams at his partner, I don't know, in a nasty way, and then I hear him say, "Look, I'm sorry I yelled, but if you had remembered toilet paper like I asked you, I wouldn't have yelled."

   15. JSJay Shetty35:28

       Mm.

   16. SPSpeaker35:28

       I, I'd be like, ooh, this feels like I don't wanna be here. [laughs]

   17. JSJay Shetty35:33

       [laughs]

   18. SPSpeaker35:33

       This is a bad situation. But if, if I've always repaired-

   19. JSJay Shetty35:37

       Mm-hmm

   20. SPSpeaker35:37

       ... in his childhood by saying, "I'm sorry I did a bad thing. But look, at the end of the day, your behavior caused me to do that thing," why would I be surprised that that's what he takes into the world, right?

   21. JSJay Shetty35:49

       Mm-hmm.

   22. SPSpeaker35:49

       And, and then I just wanna answer a question that's I know not actively being asked, but it comes up every time, 'cause parents are like, "But can't my kid ask if we could have a different dinner in a nicer way?" Or, "Okay, maybe I didn't yell because my kid didn't listen about putting on his shoes, but if my kid put on his shoes, it wouldn't have happened. Help me reconcile." Separate the two things. I always say do a real repair, and then give yourself very practically like 24 hours. Have a very different conversation, which might be, "Look, there's gonna be some days you don't like dinner. Is there a way you could tell me you don't like dinner that's equally as true for you as it is respectful for someone else?" Or, "My four-year-old won't put on his shoes or her shoes." 24 hours later after I say sorry, "Hey, mornings have been really tough for both of us. I wonder if there's anything we can think about together-"That would make putting on shoes easier.

   23. JSJay Shetty36:36

       Mm-hmm.

   24. SPSpeaker36:37

       I, I totally understand. That's realistic, but just don't, don't collapse them-

   25. JSJay Shetty36:41

       Yeah

   26. SPSpeaker36:41

       ... together.

   27. JSJay Shetty36:41

       Yeah. That's, that's the point, yeah. Usually, again, we do extremes. We either disappear and hope that tomorrow's a new day, which doesn't work-

   28. SPSpeaker36:49

       Right

   29. JSJay Shetty36:49

       ... it sounds like. Or we try and do everything in that first go at it, and then it, then it collapses

9. 36:54 – 39:17

   How to Reconcile with Your Kid

   1. JSJay Shetty36:54

      too.

   2. SPSpeaker36:54

      Yeah.

   3. JSJay Shetty36:54

      What's been the hardest... You, you've said this before, which I really like, this idea of they're not giving me a hard time, they're having a hard time.

   4. SPSpeaker37:02

      Yes.

   5. JSJay Shetty37:03

      And that differentiate is really powerful because I think our language is, "They're giving me a hard time."

   6. SPSpeaker37:09

      Yeah. I mean, look, I'm sure you think about this in so many other contexts, and it's the same as parenting, but to me, when you're in conflict with anybody, you have one of two mindsets, okay? The first mindset, and let's say it's us, where it's like I'm on one side of the table and Jay is on the other side of the table, and I'm just looking at you like you are the problem, and we wouldn't have a problem if you just came to my side and did something more like me.

   7. JSJay Shetty37:36

      Mm-hmm.

   8. SPSpeaker37:37

      Right? The other mindset is different. Instead of me against you, where you're the problem, it's me and you on the same side of the table against a problem.

   9. JSJay Shetty37:47

      Mm-hmm.

   10. SPSpeaker37:47

       I actually think in business, in marriage, with your in-laws, definitely with your kids, you literally shouldn't have a conversation about something conflictual until you can get yourself in the me and this person against a problem mindset.

   11. JSJay Shetty38:01

       Mm-hmm.

   12. SPSpeaker38:01

       "My kid is giving me a hard time" is such a good example of me against you. "My kid is having a hard time" is me and you against a problem.

   13. JSJay Shetty38:09

       Mm-hmm.

   14. SPSpeaker38:09

       And I love strategies and scripts. I'm sure we'll get into more of them. I love all those things, but they all fall flat at the end of the day if you're not operating in an effective mindset. And to me, the most important thing a parent can do when they're in a tricky situation with their kid, "Ugh, mornings are so tough. My kid is giving me a hard time. They won't get out the door." Ooh, I hear that phrase, giving me a hard time. How can I get into a me and my kid against a problem, me and my kid on the same team perspective, because then I can think about it very differently. What might be getting in the way of my kid getting out the door? I guess they're going to school. Maybe getting out the door, they're a smart kid, they kinda know as soon as they put their shoes on, they're saying bye to Daddy. Maybe that's it. And all of a sudden, something happens when you get in the same team mindset. I, I think we always love our kids, but when we're in an opposite team mindset, nobody likes to say this, but we stop liking them in the moment.

   15. JSJay Shetty39:00

       Mm-hmm.

   16. SPSpeaker39:00

       And they... And there is nothing that is a strategy that will matter more than the fact that your kid just feels that from you.

   17. JSJay Shetty39:06

       Mm-hmm.

   18. SPSpeaker39:07

       When we're on the same team, like, something amazing happens. You start liking your kid again. Now it's like a problem to solve together, and everything becomes more effective from there.

   19. JSJay Shetty39:16

       Mm-hmm.

10. 39:17 – 42:04

    Your Kid is Just Having a Hard Time

    1. JSJay Shetty39:17

       What's been the hardest personal situation for you where you feel like you've just been in that zone where you yelled or you didn't like them or you were just repairing? Like, what was the hardest for you personally that took you the most time to get back to this?

    2. SPSpeaker39:32

       I mean, it happens... I just wanna say, I, I, I feel like parenting is more like yoga than anything else.

    3. JSJay Shetty39:38

       Right.

    4. SPSpeaker39:38

       Like, people who are really into yoga are like, it's, it's the practice. Like, there's no destination.

    5. JSJay Shetty39:43

       Mm-hmm.

    6. SPSpeaker39:43

       So, uh, I'm happy to share some stories, and I will, but I don't want anyone to think like, "Oh, that was then, and this is now," right?

    7. JSJay Shetty39:48

       Yes.

    8. SPSpeaker39:48

       Like, this is a constantly-

    9. JSJay Shetty39:50

       It's daily. It's daily

    10. SPSpeaker39:50

        ... evolving muscle.

    11. JSJay Shetty39:51

        Yeah.

    12. SPSpeaker39:51

        And our kids are always changing, right? So, you know, one of my kids, my, you know, my deeply feeling kid where she feels things more intensely, the explosions are more intense, and there can be huge reactions to things that seem small on the surface. Going to a birthday party, not having the chair she wants, not watching a family movie that everyone else wants to watch, right? And it can feel in the time like, "Why are you being so difficult?"

    13. JSJay Shetty40:16

        Mm-hmm.

    14. SPSpeaker40:16

        Right? Versus, "Hold on. She's having a hard time with something." By the way, I wanna say, that doesn't mean I need to cater to that. Like, it's not like she doesn't wanna sit in this chair, so, "Hey, everyone, get up so your sister can always have the chair she wants," or, "Oh, we're gonna watch the movie she wants." I actually don't believe in that. But again, if that's the boundary part over here, what can be hard, yeah, is getting back to, "Hold on. She's a good kid who's having a hard time." I think that phrase to me that I've put out in the world is, is, is like one of the most important phrases, just to, like, practice at random times in your head. "I have a good kid who's having a hard time." It becomes like a little song. You know?

    15. JSJay Shetty40:53

        In the same way as, "I'm a good parent who's having a hard time."

    16. SPSpeaker40:55

        Hard time, you know? Um, and then I, I mean, I think I have a kid who's getting older who's a teen. I mean, it's tricky. You feel, you feel rejected. It feels like it's on their time schedule. Like, I wanna talk to my kid all day, and, you know, he doesn't. He's doing his things. He's with his friends. And then it's 9:45, and I'm actually tired, and maybe I'll get to bed early, and he's like, "Mom, I wanna talk." And of, you know, my first reaction is a little like...

    17. JSJay Shetty41:20

        [laughs] Yeah, I've been around all day.

    18. SPSpeaker41:21

        And, yeah, like, what? Like, oh, now that you wanna talk? Like, you know, and I kinda wanna retaliate-

    19. JSJay Shetty41:27

        Yeah

    20. SPSpeaker41:27

        ... or something.

    21. JSJay Shetty41:27

        Yeah.

    22. SPSpeaker41:28

        Right? And then I try to take a deep breath on my good days and say, "This is adolescence. His job is to separate from me. He's trying to figure that out. It's messy. He is supposed to be exploring the world." But, but I always think with adolescence, like, they need to be explorers, not nomads. But when we take them so personally and then refuse to connect, we're actually just leaving them as nomads-

    23. JSJay Shetty41:51

        Yeah

    24. SPSpeaker41:51

        ... which is someone without a home base.

    25. JSJay Shetty41:53

        Mm-hmm.

    26. SPSpeaker41:54

        It's like, right, he's a teen. He's doing his job. Let me take a deep breath. I have five minutes. Let me go to his room, right? I think that's what it kind of, like, looks like in real life.

    27. JSJay Shetty42:02

        Yeah. If I as a dad,

11. 42:04 – 44:30

    The Myth Of Always Being Available

    1. JSJay Shetty42:04

       when I have a child, if they came up to me and they really were excited about something, they wanted to share it, and I was busy with work or and I said, "Hey, I just can't talk about that right now"-

    2. SPSpeaker42:11

       Yeah

    3. JSJay Shetty42:12

       ... what, what impact does that have?

    4. SPSpeaker42:13

       First of all, I, I, I think there's some, I don't know, narrative out there, like, as a parent, we should be some type of always martyr, right? Like, you're in the middle of a project. I'm making this up. You're like, uh, you're, you know, we're similar. Like, you have some idea, I gotta get it down, and it's gonna... Whatever it is. You know, you're creating something. You're working on something. A good parent is someone who drops that at every second to look at my kid's art project. I don't know, whatever it is. I, I don't buy it.I don't buy it. Now, do I think a good parent is someone who would never do that? Obviously not. Again, there's a middle ground. I think, like most relationships, it's about the how. "Can't you see I'm working? This is ridiculous. This is a Lego tower. It's kind of stupid. I have a big job." I wouldn't recommend that. That's not gonna feel good.

    5. JSJay Shetty42:58

       [laughs]

    6. SPSpeaker42:59

       Okay? But if that's one extreme, and the dropping, you know, all the time is the other, I think what's in the middle, like kind of the sturdiness we talk about, is, "Wow, it looks like you're working on something really interesting. I really wanna see it. You know what's crazy? I'm working on something really interesting, and I need five minutes to finish it. I'm gonna need those five minutes actually in silence, which is gonna be a little annoying. I'm gonna ask you to leave my office and close the door, and I promise you right after that, I'm gonna come, and I'm not gonna have my phone, and I wanna see this thing you built and hear all about it." There's this kind of almost wash, rinse, repeat that I think in these moments where boundaries and empathy and connection, they're, they're really not an either/or. So many models of parenting have been one or the other, and I think at Good Inside, we bring them together. And I think, you know, I don't know, I think about people who work in an office, and they wanna talk to their CEO, and that's what you wanna hear from someone. I actually don't want a CEO all the time who's like, "I'm gonna drop everything."

    7. JSJay Shetty43:54

       Of course.

    8. SPSpeaker43:54

       Right? Or, you know, you're, you're on a plane, right? And, you know, you wanna visit the pilot with, you know, with your kid or something, right? And they're getting the plane ready. You don't want a pilot, who they're getting everything ready, and they're like, "Sure, come on in." You're like, "Were you just fixing-

    9. JSJay Shetty44:09

       [laughs]

    10. SPSpeaker44:10

        ... that engine? Like, may- you know, "Hey, I'm in the middle of something. This is really important. I see your interest. That's awesome. I'll let you know when it's ready, and then we'll do that." That combination, boundaries and empathy, to me, that's always magic.

    11. JSJay Shetty44:21

        Yeah. It was, it was [laughs] funny. I was thinking, I was thinking of my kid coming running up to me and me like, "Go away. I've got to interview Dr. Becky Kennedy [laughs] on the podcast about how to be a, how to be a good parent." Like, I was

12. 44:30 – 48:36

    How Do You Set a True Boundary?

    1. JSJay Shetty44:30

       like that's the... No, and I, and I appreciate that because that to me is just, and I, I'm, that's really reaffirming to hear because I feel like that's just having good, healthy adult conversations.

    2. SPSpeaker44:40

       That's what it is.

    3. JSJay Shetty44:40

       And it's giving context, and it's providing a perspective on why and what and where we're at. It's not just like, "Hey, I don't have time right now, I'm doing something really important." There's, there's a validation of them, but there's a validation of yourself. And again, they may not react well to that. They may, when you come back downstairs, they might be like, "I'm not doing it anymore," right? Like-

    4. SPSpeaker44:59

       That's right

    5. JSJay Shetty44:59

       ... "I don't care anymore." Like-

    6. SPSpeaker45:00

       Right

    7. JSJay Shetty45:00

       ... it was, it's done. It's broken. [laughs] Like, I don't know.

    8. SPSpeaker45:02

       That's right.

    9. JSJay Shetty45:03

       The Lego tower-

    10. SPSpeaker45:03

        That might

    11. JSJay Shetty45:03

        ... is broken. Yeah.

    12. SPSpeaker45:04

        Or again, like when I set some of the boundaries I feel really proud of with my kid, take a different example, right? Like, my kid is watching TV, and the show is over, and I told them they could watch that one episode and it's over, and I have the remote, 'cause that's a thing. It's like we leave our kid with the remote, and we're surprised we have power struggles. They shouldn't have the remote, right?

    13. JSJay Shetty45:24

        Mm-hmm.

    14. SPSpeaker45:24

        'Cause of course they're gonna wanna watch more. They're good kids who are addicted to TV like the rest of us. But let's say it's at the end, and my kid's like, "One more, one more." Maybe for whatever reason, I've decided it's really over tonight. Okay. This is like sturdy leadership in action. I might say, "Look, I get it. It's so hard to stop watching TV, honestly. It's hard for me, too. It's kind of designed to feel like it's not enough. You wanna watch the next episode," something like that. Or, "Hey, you wish you could watch another one?" Keep it simple. Next part, "And TV time is over. I actually have the remote. I'm gonna turn it off. I get it. That's annoying." If I do that in my house, I fear, and it's a fear, that people hearing me think I do that, and my kids, like, stand up and applause.

    15. JSJay Shetty46:03

        Yeah. [laughs]

    16. SPSpeaker46:04

        And they're like, "That was A+ parenting, Mom. I'm so lucky to have you. You're keeping me safe from technology, and you're validating my feelings." That has ne-

    17. JSJay Shetty46:11

        [laughs]

    18. SPSpeaker46:11

        That has never happened one time. Actually, what's important for parents to know, when you set a true boundary, I'm happy to talk about this 'cause I think people get boundaries all wrong, what they are. But when you set a true boundary, especially if your kid isn't used to it, your kid always responds in the same way, a tantrum every time. That is your big reward as a parent. Like, you're like, "I, I just did the thing, and this is the next thing? Like, where's, where is the confetti?"

    19. JSJay Shetty46:37

        Yeah. [laughs]

    20. SPSpeaker46:37

        "There's no confetti." Okay, but if you actually know that your kid's tantrum is a sign that you did actually set a true boundary, you become a lot less reactive to it because unconsciously we think our kid's tantrum is a sign we're doing a bad job as a parent.

    21. JSJay Shetty46:53

        Mm.

    22. SPSpeaker46:54

        Our kid's tantrum is often a sign we set a boundary, and they're upset about it.

    23. JSJay Shetty46:59

        Mm.

    24. SPSpeaker46:59

        Which then means we can just do the next part of our job. We can validate, "Oh, I know. You wish you were an adult and could decide whatever number of TV shows you wanted to watch." But you better bet even as I'm saying that, I'm not, I'm not turning on the TV again. I'm not. That's not happening. Boundary, they get upset, we can validate, we hold the boundary, kind of over and over.

    25. JSJay Shetty47:19

        Mm. And, and where's, like, any emotional... Is there any hugging? Is there, like, affection? Like, or is it-

    26. SPSpeaker47:24

        Yeah, I think everyone's kid is different.

    27. JSJay Shetty47:26

        Right.

    28. SPSpeaker47:26

        One of my kids might really want that.

    29. JSJay Shetty47:28

        Mm.

    30. SPSpeaker47:28

        "Oh, I know. It stinks. Come here."
13. 48:36 – 52:34

    The Communication Skills Every Parent Needs

    1. JSJay Shetty48:36

       Yeah. I, I agree. I think the challenge we've created is that we think effective communication is when you get the perfect reaction.

    2. SPSpeaker48:45

       Yes.

    3. JSJay Shetty48:46

       And I don't think that's trueAs a parent or as an adult or, or in any capacity, because-

    4. SPSpeaker48:52

       That's right

    5. JSJay Shetty48:53

       ... you could communicate something really exceptionally effectively, and the reaction is not the direct response to whether you communicated effectively or not. We think if the kid did applaud, or there was confetti, or they turned around and said, "Okay, Mom, I'll go to bed," we think that's a good day, right? So it's almost this idea of, and this, again, applies to marriage, too, you almost fin- feel like when the person's just responding to you saying, "You're amazing. Well done," or even if it's not that forward, the idea of I'm doing everything you tell me to, we see as a sign of good communication.

    6. SPSpeaker49:26

       I see something very similar with so many parents, and I think this is maybe the biggest thing we love to help shift. We use our kids' behavior or their reactions as a barometer of whether we're a good parent, and we lose ourself in the process because we're so busy gazing out versus gazing in.

    7. JSJay Shetty49:46

       Mm-hmm.

    8. SPSpeaker49:46

       What's a version of gazing in? Is this a decision I believe in? Do I feel like I'm actually being a good leader? Do I feel like this is a decision maybe not only t- for today, but for, you know, every once in a while when we have the energy, a decision that really helps our kid become the kind of teen and adult we'd want them to be? You know? So I, I heard this story from a parent the other day. It was really interesting. It, it was kind of this classic public meltdown, right? Birthday party. Her kid only wanted to sit next to the birthday party kid. I get this.

    9. JSJay Shetty50:15

       [laughs]

    10. SPSpeaker50:15

        It's a big thing.

    11. JSJay Shetty50:16

        I love you.

    12. SPSpeaker50:16

        Sitting next to the birthday party kid is a big deal.

    13. JSJay Shetty50:19

        [laughs]

    14. SPSpeaker50:20

        Pizza time came, 'cause everyone has pizza at their birthday parties. Her kid had to go to the bathroom, and she's like, "This is, this is not gonna be good because I know after the bathroom, that seat next to my kid with elbow, that's gonna be gone." It was gone, okay? Major public meltdown. "Oh, oh, you know, I have to have that seat. I need that seat." Meanwhile, it's like, this kid's birthday party. So many times I see this lack of sturdiness. I see, I'm making up this name, "Nora. Nora, we don't yell at other people's birthday parties." I mean, it is, it is actually so sad to witness because kids need us to embody our authority. I, I would say at Good Inside it's authority without aggression, which almost feels like an oxymoron these days. It's rarely modeled, but it's authority without aggression. Now, this mom was telling me this story, and she goes, "You know, it's interesting. A number of months ago, I had a family dinner. My child had this major meltdown. It was, it was the worst day of my week. Like, I felt like it was my biggest parenting fail. She- here's what's crazy. I knew exactly what to do. I picked her up. First, I pulled her to the side, and I said, 'Ugh, this is a hard time. Look, this is a birthday party. That seat's not available. These others are.' It just escalated further and further, and as a parent sometimes you know this is past the point of no return. This is not, not gonna be a good situation. So I knew what to do. I picked her up. I said, 'Nora, I'm picking you up. I'm carrying you to the car. We're just not gonna be able to finish this birthday party today. You're a good kid having a hard time. You're not in trouble. I'm gonna help you through this.'" Her kid, "No, give me another chance," but she was far gone. Carried her to the car. They drove away. They got home, and she said to me, "Is it weird that that was my parenting win?" I just thought it was so beautiful. I don't think that's weird. I, I don't think that's weird at all. To me, the biggest wins we have in parenting and in so many parts of life are when we shift from my job is to avoid all turbulence to I actually know exactly what to do in the turbulence. And when you know what to do in the turbulence, which takes practice, and learning, and support, and never being perfect, you actually feel stronger having piloted a plane through that storm-

    15. JSJay Shetty52:23

        Mm-hmm

    16. SPSpeaker52:23

        ... and safely gotten to ground, rather than the anxiety of like-

    17. JSJay Shetty52:27

        I just need to avoid

    18. SPSpeaker52:28

        ... all, yeah, that's so... We feel so fragile-

    19. JSJay Shetty52:31

        Mm

    20. SPSpeaker52:31

        ... when we're doing that.

    21. JSJay Shetty52:32

        Mm. You've said

14. 52:34 – 56:48

    What is Your Job As A Parent?

    1. JSJay Shetty52:34

       before that it's not your job to make your kids happy, which applies to what you're saying right now.

    2. SPSpeaker52:40

       Yeah.

    3. JSJay Shetty52:40

       Then what is a parent's job?

    4. SPSpeaker52:42

       So I, I think, I, I wanna talk about both those things. Let's start with the parent's job, and then why not only it isn't our job to make our kids happy, but why it's actually a really bad thing for them. The idea of a parent's job has a- actually come up for me because over and over I'd see people in my private practice, and, you know, now through Instagram, different things, and they'd be like, "My kid is having a tantrum. My kid is so mean to her brother. My kid won't do his homework," whatever the situation was. And I'd say, "Okay. Look, all parents wanna do a good job. I know that." But I'd always say to a parent, "Just tell me, what is your job? Forget if you can perform it well. What is your job?" Every parent would look at me like, "I have, I have no idea."

    5. JSJay Shetty53:18

       Yeah.

    6. SPSpeaker53:18

       A- and then I think about just offices. Like, I picture someone coming to their job the first day, and their boss saying, "Do a good job," and the person saying, "But, but I don't have a job description. I... By the way, I also don't even know what that dude does over there. I kinda need to know what that person's lane is. I definitely need to know what my job is-

    7. JSJay Shetty53:36

       Mm-hmm

    8. SPSpeaker53:36

       ... if I'm going to do it well." So I think any parent listening is like, "It's true. What is my job?" If you don't know, then there's immense clarity. Forget trying to do it well. We just have to have the clarity and the foundation.

    9. JSJay Shetty53:47

       Absolutely.

    10. SPSpeaker53:48

        So I think a parent always has two jobs. It's almost every situation, and I'll define one of them, which we didn't get to yet. So setting boundaries and validating your kid's emotions.

    11. JSJay Shetty53:57

        Mm.

    12. SPSpeaker53:57

        And they go hand in hand. Setting boundaries is widely misunderstood. I'll share what my definition of boundaries are, which is as applicable to adults as it is to kid. Boundaries are something you tell someone you will do, and they require the other person to do nothing.

    13. JSJay Shetty54:14

        Mm-hmm.

    14. SPSpeaker54:15

        We often say, "This person doesn't respect my boundaries." To me, with respect, it's often a sign that someone has an inaccurate definition of a boundary-

    15. JSJay Shetty54:24

        Mm-hmm

    16. SPSpeaker54:24

        ... 'cause you're giving all your power to the other person.

    17. JSJay Shetty54:26

        Mm-hmm.

    18. SPSpeaker54:27

        So I, I often ask a parent, "Well, what do you mean your kid isn't listening?" Yeah, I live in New York City. This is, like, my kid, and I always say when we go up to the elevator buttons, "Don't press the buttons. Don't press all the buttons." And then my kid goes and presses all the buttons. He does not respect my boundaries. He has a listening problem. Now, if you have a kid like one of my kids who is 0% people-pleasing, it's gonna take a little bit longer than other kids to manage urges, okay?A boundary isn't, "Don't press the button." Is that something I'm telling my kid I will do? No. Does it require my kid to do nothing? No, I'm giving all of my power to my four-year-old.

    19. JSJay Shetty55:03

        Mm-hmm.

    20. SPSpeaker55:03

        A boundary would be saying, "Hey, when we go into the elevator, I'm gonna be between you and the buttons. I know it's fun to press the button, sweetie. It's just not something I'm gonna allow, and yep, even if you lunge for it, I'm gonna block you."

    21. JSJay Shetty55:15

        [laughs]

    22. SPSpeaker55:16

        That... It's true. It's like you gotta get, like, your-

    23. JSJay Shetty55:18

        [laughs]

    24. SPSpeaker55:19

        ... like, karate g- like, there, there's some moves-

    25. JSJay Shetty55:21

        [laughs]

    26. SPSpeaker55:22

        ... you can use as a parent. I'll teach you them.

    27. JSJay Shetty55:23

        [laughs]

    28. SPSpeaker55:23

        Remarkably, like, kind of, you know, some interesting dance moves going on.

    29. JSJay Shetty55:27

        Yeah. [laughs]

    30. SPSpeaker55:27

        But that's a boundary. It's not something I'm doing to my kid. I'm doing it for him, so I don't let him feel like an out-of-control kid. And this is important, so I don't let myself get so frustrated that I end up yelling random punishments I have no intention of keeping. "Anyway, no dessert tonight," and then I'm like, "Actually, you can have dessert. I don't, I don't even care. I don't want you to have a tantrum."
15. 56:48 – 59:12

    Your Kid’s Feelings Are Valid

    1. SPSpeaker56:48

       The other part of our job is connecting to our kids' feelings, is seeing our kids' feelings as real while not allowing those feelings to overpower us. That is so important. People think validating a kid's emotions means agreeing with their emotions. It does not. My kid is having a grilled cheese. They always like it cut into rectangles. These things matter, and I cut it into rectangles, and today is the day my kid's like, "I needed it in triangles," right? Whatever it is. Now, to me, I know intellectually, I'm like, "This feels crazy. I actually thought about how to cut it. I cut it in a rectangle. That's how you usually like it, but I don't have to agree. Who knows what this is really about?" Validation would just be, "You really wish it was in a triangle today," or, "Oh, this feels really bad. Oh, it feels like the grilled cheese isn't even gonna be yummy when it's cutting this way." People often think if I do that, that means I'm making a new grilled cheese. Depending on the day, if I want to, maybe I will, but maybe I won't 'cause I'm holding the boundary. But validation is simply seeing someone else's experience as real for them, and I think when you think about those two jobs, boundaries and validation, the reason they're so important is I, I kind of profoundly believe that kids are always asking two questions: Am I safe? And our boundaries answer that. And am I real? Because kids have such intense feelings.

    2. JSJay Shetty58:13

       Mm-hmm.

    3. SPSpeaker58:13

       I mean, you and I have intense feelings, and the thing about feelings that's so fascinating is when you fall and skin your knee, you see blood, so you're like, "Ow, that's painful." But then you often have some representation of how it's real. "Well, I'm bleeding," or, "I have a black and blue." Feelings are very unique. They are such visceral sensations coursing through your body without any external manifestation.

    4. JSJay Shetty58:41

       Mm-hmm.

    5. SPSpeaker58:42

       There, and there's no blood test to, like, tell you you're having anger, so that's very confusing for kids. And so part of what happens for kids when they're feeling intense emotions is we sometimes take the bait too much about the concrete thing they're upset about.

    6. JSJay Shetty58:55

       Mm-hmm.

    7. SPSpeaker58:55

       What they're really trying to figure out, which is really the basis of confidence, is, are the things that I am perceiving feeling in my body, are those things real? Because I have to know if they're real before I can learn how to manage them.

    8. JSJay Shetty59:10

       I feel like a lot of people think that their

16. 59:12 – 1:00:40

    How Boundaries & Validation Make for Resilient Adults

    1. JSJay Shetty59:12

       job is to make their kids good people-

    2. SPSpeaker59:15

       Yeah

    3. JSJay Shetty59:15

       ... or to be successful.

    4. SPSpeaker59:16

       Yeah.

    5. JSJay Shetty59:17

       Or to do well or be able to survive the real world when they grow up. Would you say that, am I safe and am I real, which I love those questions, would you say that boundaries and validation almost will help do all those things?

    6. SPSpeaker59:30

       I think that's a beautiful question, because I guess I'm zoomed, zoomed in to often, like, "Well, what is my job in the moment?" And I think what you're saying is, like, "What is my goal for my kid?" I have those goals for my kid. I want them to be resilient.

    7. JSJay Shetty59:40

       Mm-hmm.

    8. SPSpeaker59:40

       Which really means I want them to be able to handle challenges and know that they can bounce back from hard things. I want them to be able to tolerate discomfort, not avoid it or look for the quickest exit from it. I want my kid to feel really at home in their body. I want my kid to feel confident, which to me has nothing to do with feeling good about yourself. It's actually about self-trust, which is why it goes back to feeling like your feelings are real and feeling like you are a better perceiver of your feelings than other people are for you.

    9. JSJay Shetty1:00:07

       Mm-hmm.

    10. SPSpeaker1:00:08

        Yes, I do believe, of course, there's a lot more nuance, but in general, setting boundaries, staying connected to your kid by validating their emotions. There's other things, too, right? Supporting them in their struggle, not rescuing. Asking yourself pretty often, "Am I still doing things for my kid that they can start to learn how to do for themselves, and how can I slowly back away? How can I set my kid up for capability, not fragility," right? There's other things, but in general, yes. I think boundaries and validation, when paired together, they do. That's what makes for really resilient adults.

17. 1:00:40 – 1:09:45

    Should you be Optimizing for Happiness In Childhood?

    1. JSJay Shetty1:00:40

       I, I, I would agree with you, and I've never heard it that way before, and I, I really like that because I think sometimes when we think, "Oh, well, I want to have kind kids," and then we're trying to model kindness for themBut the problem is if kindness is free of boundary and free of validation-

    2. SPSpeaker1:00:56

       Yeah

    3. JSJay Shetty1:00:56

       ... or kindness looks like validation with no boundaries to us-

    4. SPSpeaker1:00:59

       That's right

    5. JSJay Shetty1:01:00

       ... and then they're not getting kindness because they don't know what self-kindness looks like, and they only see the martyr or the self-sacrifice version of kindness, quote-unquote, and then that isn't an accurate form of kindness. Now they think kindness means I'll do things for people even if they exploit, abuse, or don't have any set of understanding with me. So they don't become a kind person, they become someone that people take advantage of.

    6. SPSpeaker1:01:22

       I, I think- I think that's really poignant.

    7. JSJay Shetty1:01:24

       Yeah.

    8. SPSpeaker1:01:24

       Right? And, and look, it's true. I think this thing people say flippantly, like I'll be at a dinner or something, you know, and someone's like, "Don't you just want your kid to be happy?" And I always, I always picture my husband being like, "Becky, please don't ruin. That was just a throwaway comment."

    9. JSJay Shetty1:01:36

       [laughs]

    10. SPSpeaker1:01:36

        Like, don't-

    11. JSJay Shetty1:01:36

        This is amazing. I love-

    12. SPSpeaker1:01:37

        Don't be a bummer, you know?

    13. JSJay Shetty1:01:39

        Right.

    14. SPSpeaker1:01:39

        And then like half the time I listen, half the time I'm like, "Actually, it's not what you want." Everyone's like, "What?"

    15. JSJay Shetty1:01:43

        Yeah.

    16. SPSpeaker1:01:43

        And I'm like, "Sorry, I just can't help myself."

    17. JSJay Shetty1:01:45

        Yeah.

    18. SPSpeaker1:01:45

        Um, but, and again, we love, as humans, we hear someone say, "No, that's not true," and then people will say to me, "You want your kids to be unhappy?" Obviously not.

    19. JSJay Shetty1:01:55

        Mm-hmm.

    20. SPSpeaker1:01:55

        There's, again, so much in between two extremes, but here's the thing about optimizing for happiness in childhood. I, I firmly believe, and I've seen it over and over, that the more you optimize for happiness in childhood, the more you actually wire for anxiety in adulthood.

    21. JSJay Shetty1:02:10

        Explain that.

    22. SPSpeaker1:02:12

        L- let's take a situation that happens often, and then I'll zoom out-

    23. JSJay Shetty1:02:14

        Yeah, please

    24. SPSpeaker1:02:14

        ... but I think the stories matter.

    25. JSJay Shetty1:02:15

        Please, yeah.

    26. SPSpeaker1:02:16

        Um-

    27. JSJay Shetty1:02:16

        They do

    28. SPSpeaker1:02:17

        ... I'm the only one in my class who can't read. My kid comes home and says this. This is, first of all, let me just say, this is so painful. Like, seeing your kid in pain as a parent-

    29. JSJay Shetty1:02:27

        Mm

    30. SPSpeaker1:02:27

        ... it's so painful. I think a lot of our instinct is, "Let me make my kid happy," right?
18. 1:09:45 – 1:12:56

    The Power of Patience & Time

    1. JSJay Shetty1:09:45

       Is there a part of that, do you then address the reading challenge? Or what do you do-

    2. SPSpeaker1:09:52

       Great question

    3. JSJay Shetty1:09:52

       ... from a practical-

    4. SPSpeaker1:09:52

       Totally

    5. JSJay Shetty1:09:53

       ... standpoint on that after that moment?

    6. SPSpeaker1:09:54

       Love it. Love it. So right. So let's say this is happening.

    7. JSJay Shetty1:09:57

       Yeah.

    8. SPSpeaker1:09:57

       And then you're thinking like, "Does my kid need a reading tutor? Do I just need to spend-"

    9. JSJay Shetty1:10:01

       Right. Right.

    10. SPSpeaker1:10:02

        All of that can happen.

    11. JSJay Shetty1:10:03

        Mm-hmm.

    12. SPSpeaker1:10:03

        Now, I, I think what kids really feel in our first response, "Ugh, I'm the only one in the class m- can't read. Okay, one second, I'm calling the reader tutor right now."

    13. JSJay Shetty1:10:10

        Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

    14. SPSpeaker1:10:10

        In a way, the visual, again, is like my kid is still alone on the bench. They're like, "Where'd my mom go?"

    15. JSJay Shetty1:10:15

        Yeah.

    16. SPSpeaker1:10:15

        "Where'd my dad go?" She is... You know, I just-

    17. JSJay Shetty1:10:17

        Yeah.

    18. SPSpeaker1:10:17

        So I would say again, just, like, stay for a bit.

    19. JSJay Shetty1:10:19

        Mm.

    20. SPSpeaker1:10:20

        I, I think one of the most underutilized things in parenting is time.

    21. JSJay Shetty1:10:24

        Mm.

    22. SPSpeaker1:10:25

        It's like, yeah, and I think we under-

    23. JSJay Shetty1:10:26

        Which we don't have, yeah.

    24. SPSpeaker1:10:27

        Yeah, or maybe we do have.

    25. JSJay Shetty1:10:28

        Mm.

    26. SPSpeaker1:10:29

        You know, I can call that tutor. Why don't I just give myself to the night? Let me sleep on it. Because my kid is gonna pick up on kind of my panic and my own anxiety around it. So absolutely, if that was me, I might think, "Ooh, maybe I need to sit with my kid. Maybe I need to teach them some phonics." It doesn't have anything to do with phonics. Are they a kid who's kind of perfectionistic, and they're just not wanting to try because they're failing? Do they have a k- a sibling who's really gifted, and so they've labeled themselves as the not smart kid? I, again, there could be a million things.

    27. JSJay Shetty1:10:59

        Yeah.

    28. SPSpeaker1:10:59

        It might not even be an academic tutor. But I think when you sit on the bench, you give yourself also a little bit more time to tolerate it. You can access your curious mind, and then absolutely, of course... I'm, I love taking action.

    29. JSJay Shetty1:11:13

        Mm.

    30. SPSpeaker1:11:13

        But it, but it would be from, like, a sturdier place.
19. 1:12:56 – 1:19:44

    Teaching Kids How To Build Tolerance

    1. JSJay Shetty1:12:56

       Well, I think you hit the nail on it, the fix and move on.It's like that's ... We want to remove the pain of the people we love, right? We wanna be able to extract the pain in that moment, and we see that as success. For us, healthy parenting or healthy relation is if you share a pain with me, if I can take it away right now like magic, then I've done my job. And therefore, we call the tutor, we ... I say, "Oh, well, here are all the logical, realist reasons. Don't worry about it." It, there, it's this fix and move on, and what you're asking us to do is not fix until later. It's almost like, "Don't move. Sit right here-

    2. SPSpeaker1:13:32

       Yeah

    3. JSJay Shetty1:13:32

       ... and then think about fixing it maybe in 24 hours, 48 hours, and trying to figure out what, what the problem is." But it's completely the opposite of what we think success is.

    4. SPSpeaker1:13:42

       It is, and I think kind of having that idea in your mind really matters to start the different actions. Like, wait, even if I just say it, like we all have to try on dea- ideas before we believe them. It's not my job to remove my kid's distress.

    5. JSJay Shetty1:13:55

       Mm-hmm.

    6. SPSpeaker1:13:56

       It's not my job to make my kid happy. If my kid has a really hard day, that is not a sign I have failed. Now, I, I like to take hard ideas and turn them, like, so far on their head that they become hyperbolic, and so I'll share it here 'cause it might be useful. 'Cause now that I work the amount I do, right, I think about the, the, the time that I have with my kids, right? I'm like, "I really wanna make the most out of it." And there was this period when my kids were younger where I was like, "Man, I come home. It's just like a tantrum and whining," and it's really easy. I hear this from friends too. Like, "That's what I come home to?" Like, I, I bust my butt to leave work early to come home to the tantrum, to the whining. Okay. But here's, here's a way to shift it, right? Or to hear about my kid being left out, these painful things. I, I know a lot of people, and I definitely would put you in this category, who are driven by impact, and I actually think as humans we have a lot of needs. I actually think impact is a need. Like, I think we need to feel impactful in the world. When our kids are perfectly happy, "Oh, Mom, you came home from work. Thank you. Also, I got 100 on my test, and three of my friends are planning parties. I was invited to all of them, and in general, just feeling 10 out of 10." Okay, that's never happened, but let's just say that did.

    7. JSJay Shetty1:15:07

       Yeah.

    8. SPSpeaker1:15:08

       I, I would love to witness that moment, but I promise you I'm not impactful in my kid's life in that moment. My kid's fine.

    9. JSJay Shetty1:15:14

       Mm.

    10. SPSpeaker1:15:14

        Moving on. And I don't even know how many of us need anybody when that's happening.

    11. JSJay Shetty1:15:17

        Yeah.

    12. SPSpeaker1:15:18

        But I started to do this reframe to myself, and it was very extreme, 'cause that's the only way it caught for me, where I was coming home, my kid was having then that tantrum about whatever it is, the blue cup wasn't blue enough today. I don't know, something like that. And I started to say to myself, "Becky-

    13. JSJay Shetty1:15:35

        Mm

    14. SPSpeaker1:15:36

        ... this is my bang for my buck moment."

    15. JSJay Shetty1:15:37

        Mm-hmm.

    16. SPSpeaker1:15:38

        Literally. This is the moment, if I'm driven by impact, that, that I wanna be home for. Because my kid is probably just releasing the stress of their day, or the blue cup is too blue is a way of saying, "There's so many little things in my day, Mom, that didn't go the way I wanted, and I haven't released it until now." And if I can be there in that moment, don't get me wrong, I- I'm not gonna say it's, like, purely enjoyable, but oh my goodness, is it impactful.

    17. JSJay Shetty1:16:04

        Mm-hmm.

    18. SPSpeaker1:16:05

        And that really, really matters down the road.

    19. JSJay Shetty1:16:08

        Yeah. And it motivates you too in the moment.

    20. SPSpeaker1:16:10

        It kind of does motivate me.

    21. JSJay Shetty1:16:12

        Yeah.

    22. SPSpeaker1:16:12

        The other thing that motivates me too is, you know, I think about this thing that happened with one of my kids where they have this, these projects in his school, and some of the projects for this week are really good. They're, like, amazing. We live in New York. They're, like, these amazing opportunities, and I'd say three or four of them are, like, everyone's like, "Those are the bad ones." Like life. So there's how good of a project you get, and then also they split up kids into groups, so kids wanna be with their friends.

    23. JSJay Shetty1:16:35

        Mm.

    24. SPSpeaker1:16:35

        So there's always factors. How many of my friends am I with? Did I get the good project? First project week came out. My son got ... and it just was the worst project with not a soul he knew. It was like the, the ... Right.

    25. JSJay Shetty1:16:47

        Yeah, yeah.

    26. SPSpeaker1:16:49

        Okay. So this is the moment I think, and my kid, my son, obviously, he was, like, really upset. Again, I don't know if kids were like, "This is a learning moment." No, he was, like, really upset. "Why is this the case," right? Okay. So the phrase I've developed that, that I do think is powerful just 'cause it gets me in a different mindset is sick joy, and I'll explain what I mean.

    27. JSJay Shetty1:17:07

        [laughs]

    28. SPSpeaker1:17:07

        Okay? I know what really matters in life going forward is being able to stay grounded when things don't go your way.

    29. JSJay Shetty1:17:15

        Mm-hmm.

    30. SPSpeaker1:17:16

        He might not get into his college of first choice. He might not get the job he wants. He might, you know, whatever it is, go buy a car, and he thinks he's getting a certain car, and they don't have that one in stock. I mean, not getting the thing you want is ... I don't, it happens every day in adult life.
20. 1:19:44 – 1:24:36

    Fostering Independence

    1. JSJay Shetty1:19:44

       that I think we have a warped view of what care is.

    2. SPSpeaker1:19:48

       Yes.

    3. JSJay Shetty1:19:48

       So we think care means let me call, let me figure it out, let me get you a better friend group, let me get you a better project. So we're thinking that that's what care looks like, and now my kid knows I care for them. But actually, what you're saying in your words is, "I don't believe in you. I'm not sure you can get through this, and I can fix everything." And so instead of them thinking, "Oh, Mom cares about me," it's Mom or Dad or whoever it may be can fix everything because they don't trust in me.

    4. SPSpeaker1:20:15

       Yes.

    5. JSJay Shetty1:20:15

       And then the other part why I love that answer is because you're also not doing what I think we often do with our family and friends, and because I'm not a parent I've not done it with a child, but you're trying to teach the lesson before living the lesson.

    6. SPSpeaker1:20:29

       Ugh, yes.

    7. JSJay Shetty1:20:29

       Right? So you're trying to teach the lesson where it's like, "This is a good thing," and your kid's like, "No, it's not, Mom. I hate this." And you're like, "No, it's a really good thing. You'll learn in the long term that this is the best thing that happened to you." [laughs] And the kid's like, "What are you talking about?" And so-

    8. SPSpeaker1:20:42

       Right

    9. JSJay Shetty1:20:42

       ... rather than like, "Let's just do it for three days." [laughs]

    10. SPSpeaker1:20:45

        That's exactly right.

    11. JSJay Shetty1:20:46

        Yeah, do it.

    12. SPSpeaker1:20:46

        Like, I, I'm not a marathon runner.

    13. JSJay Shetty1:20:48

        Yeah.

    14. SPSpeaker1:20:48

        I'm not in terribly good shape, but if I was and I was running a marathon and someone's like, "This is an amazing thing. Are you loving every s-" I'd be like, "I'm sorry, I'm gonna feel really good about myself the day after the marathon."

    15. JSJay Shetty1:20:59

        Yeah. [laughs]

    16. SPSpeaker1:21:00

        I, I don't know that, like, no one feels great, I don't think, climbing Mount Everest. You do it for an experience. You bear down. You know it's gonna be really hard, and at some point you look back and you're like-

    17. JSJay Shetty1:21:10

        Absolutely

    18. SPSpeaker1:21:10

        ... "That was good for me."

    19. JSJay Shetty1:21:11

        Yeah.

    20. SPSpeaker1:21:11

        So I think that, and what you said also that just made me have a new thought, when we call the school, when we do the puzzle, when we fix the friendship issue, right, assuming it's not some really intense abusive bullying, okay? I wanna say, we might end up feeling capable, but we steal our kids' capability.

    21. JSJay Shetty1:21:30

        Mm-hmm.

    22. SPSpeaker1:21:31

        We steal it from them. We f- I called the school. I fixed it. My kid is now deprived of an opportunity to watch themselves do something they thought they couldn't do.

    23. JSJay Shetty1:21:41

        Yeah.

    24. SPSpeaker1:21:42

        I, I, I don't, I, I don't think we wanna take that away from our kids.

    25. JSJay Shetty1:21:45

        Yeah. My w- my wife's talked about that all the time. She talks about like when she was a kid, if she wanted to not go to the dentist or not go to the doctor, whatever it was, she'd get her, or even as a teenager at this point, she'd get her older sister to make the call, and she wouldn't wanna make the call. And so as she's got older, it's got harder and harder and harder for her to make these calls or to cancel something or whatever it may have been, and it took her so long, even probably in through to when we first started dating, 'cause then she'd ask my opinion or ask me to do it, and I'd be like, "No, you do it."

    26. SPSpeaker1:22:14

        Right.

    27. JSJay Shetty1:22:14

        Because I grew up the other way where I always did everything, like paid for my car insurance, paid for my first car, my phone bill, so I was very comfortable doing those things. And I was like, no, but I don't wanna be seen as the savior in this situation. I also don't wanna be seen as like I'm, I'm the hero of this scenario, because I don't wanna make you dependent on me for, you know, for those things. And it was really interesting for her, and now she would look back and she'd be like, "Oh my gosh, like I was just never given the opportunity-

    28. SPSpeaker1:22:39

        That's right

    29. JSJay Shetty1:22:39

        ... to do really s- No, and I'm not gonna... Those things feel hard at the time, and so I don't wanna take that away, but yeah, if you never get given the ability and the opportunity, later on it's gonna make you really unstable.

    30. SPSpeaker1:22:52

        Yeah, and, and I'm, I'm really big on helping parents teach these kids, because again, I think there's a lot between two extremes. One extreme is, well, think about it. Okay, like your kid can't make their sports practice, and they have access to a computer for an email to their coach. So easy, just write the email, right? Okay. So one extreme is write the email to your coach, and your kid might be like, "I can't do it," right? It's not a big deal. Write it. And over here is I'll write it for you.
21. 1:24:36 – 1:30:33

    Teaching Children Self-Reliance

    1. JSJay Shetty1:24:36

       No, that's such a great way of putting it. It's, and I, and I like the whole how Good Inside is based on this middle ground-

    2. SPSpeaker1:24:41

       Yeah

    3. JSJay Shetty1:24:41

       ... because we all get lost in the edges and on the corners and the extremes, and we keep oscillating between these two ways of being rather than realizing, well, it's a bit of this and a bit of that, and probably not all the way on either side. And it's so much more easier to think about it like that, because I think our brain does this thing where it goes, "Well, should I be assertive or should I be affectionate?" And it's like, well, be assertively affectionate. Like-

    4. SPSpeaker1:25:04

       Ugh, love that

    5. JSJay Shetty1:25:06

       Rather than, yeah, do I be kind or do I be like, you know, do I challenge them?

    6. SPSpeaker1:25:10

       Right.

    7. JSJay Shetty1:25:10

       And it's like, well, figure out a way to kindly challenge them, like which is what you just did in this email writing.

    8. SPSpeaker1:25:15

       Yeah.

    9. JSJay Shetty1:25:16

       Which was like it was a challenge, but you were kind about it. And all of a sudden, a- and it's so real that that's what we all want. If I think about anything my parents failed at teaching me, it was because it was just expected that I should know how to do it. And anything they wanted teaching me was because they sat down and did it with me, or someone did. And I remember I worked at a company where I learned how to cold call when I was like 15 years old. Probably one of the best lessons I've ever learned in my entire life, but it only worked because this guy called Joel sat next to me, who was a pro at it, and he sat next to me for my first like 10 calls and would write out the words for me and script and coach for me, and then I did 290 phone calls after that without him.

    10. SPSpeaker1:25:55

        Yeah.

    11. JSJay Shetty1:25:56

        And it was just those 10 calls that made me feel so confident, and I didn't know what cold calling was. And now everyone's listening going, "What the hell is cold calling?" But it was when you were trying to sell stuff over the phone to people you didn't know. Uh, and, and it was-

    12. SPSpeaker1:26:07

        Back in the day

    13. JSJay Shetty1:26:08

        ... yeah, back in the day, yeah.

    14. SPSpeaker1:26:09

        [laughs]

    15. JSJay Shetty1:26:09

        And it was just that kind of an experience of, yeah, having someone hold my hand and have a script, and kind of could see me stress out on the phone when someone said something I didn't expect, and kind of put a word in front of me. And it was like, oh, okay, that's how you do it.

    16. SPSpeaker1:26:22

        Yeah, and look, I think this stuff, it's so old in our body, right? Like, I think about an issue I was having with one of my kids-

    17. JSJay Shetty1:26:28

        Mm

    18. SPSpeaker1:26:28

        ... a year or two ago, a small issue, just like, "Why is his towel on the floor?"

    19. JSJay Shetty1:26:31

        [laughs]

    20. SPSpeaker1:26:31

        "Why is it always on the floor?" I, I actually am not someone who cares about my kids having like a very neat room. I don't know why. I'll look into it in therapy. But like the towel, the wet towel on the floor is just, it's a thing my kids know I care about, and there's not that many things like that. So it's on the floor. And every time, "How hard is it? How hard is it to take your towel and put it on the hook," right? Like, there's so many ways. And if we go back and you think about your equivalent in your childhood of towel on the floor, right? I think that's what a lot of us were met with.

    21. JSJay Shetty1:26:59

        Mm.

    22. SPSpeaker1:27:00

        Just like our parents' frustration. Again, they were doing the best they could-

    23. JSJay Shetty1:27:03

        Mm

    24. SPSpeaker1:27:03

        ... with the resources they had, right? But the best bosses in the world, if they get a report from someone that's not good, I can't imagine. They're like, "How did you do it like this?" Like, "Well, I don't know how to do it differently-"

    25. JSJay Shetty1:27:15

        Yeah

    26. SPSpeaker1:27:15

        ... "then." And so I thought about this, and I find a helpful question with your kid to, to start with, be like, okay, wait, I have a good kid. Let me remind myself I like my kid.

    27. JSJay Shetty1:27:23

        Mm-hmm.

    28. SPSpeaker1:27:23

        I have a good kid. What is a skill my kid would need to develop to be better able to even pick up the towel on the floor?

    29. JSJay Shetty1:27:34

        Mm.

    30. SPSpeaker1:27:34

        And when I asked myself that question, something crazy happened. Just, it, it- I had a thought I'd never had before 'cause of the mindset shift. I said, "I wonder if he notices it." Like, when I look in his room and the towel's on the floor, I don't notice anything in the room-
22. 1:30:33 – 1:37:56

    The Value Of Discipline

    1. JSJay Shetty1:30:33

       Yeah. No, it's, it's such a... I wonder whether it's... I felt like my parents felt very comfortable getting us to do chores early on, though-

    2. SPSpeaker1:30:39

       Mm-hmm

    3. JSJay Shetty1:30:40

       ... in our life, and so I remember ironing my shirts for school since I was probably, like, 13-

    4. SPSpeaker1:30:46

       Yeah

    5. JSJay Shetty1:30:46

       ... maybe. And then my, my sister and I had a routine after dinner where we'd either one of us would wash the dishes or clean the table, and the other would clean the table and wash the dishes. And I felt like those were healthy routines that we just knew, that were locked in, and we hated doing them. I never liked doing it. Ironing I got some pride in. I'm still like a very proud... We used to iron, not steam, and now I've learned how to steam since moving to this country. But this idea of I didn't like washing up the dishes or cleaning-

    6. SPSpeaker1:31:11

       Yeah

    7. JSJay Shetty1:31:12

       ... the table. It was just part of our routine.

    8. SPSpeaker1:31:13

       Yes.

    9. JSJay Shetty1:31:14

       What is the value of discipline even when you hate it?And what early chores are healthy and useful?

    10. SPSpeaker1:31:21

        I, I, I think this is such an important conversation and, and you actually said something that I often say. You beat me to the punch. First of all, there is just immense value to kids spending time doing things that are unenjoyable.

    11. JSJay Shetty1:31:33

        Mm.

    12. SPSpeaker1:31:34

        I think especially now, a- and I'm not trying to say I'm always above this, but we've somehow moved to this world where we're always optimizing for each kid.

    13. JSJay Shetty1:31:43

        Mm-hmm.

    14. SPSpeaker1:31:43

        It's really interesting, even like the weekends are split, like I'm taking this kid here, this kid here. We do that sometimes too. It's necessary. But almost unconsciously we don't realize I'm, like, always optimizing for my kids' pleasure. I remember the time that one of my kids was like, "What? I have to go to my sibling's soccer? Like, he's not even good at soccer," which was true. He wasn't that good, right? A- and it was [laughs] the moment where I was like, "That's actually exactly why you're gonna go." Like, the weekend is not about optimizing your personal pleasure-

    15. JSJay Shetty1:32:12

        Mm

    16. SPSpeaker1:32:12

        ... at every second.

    17. JSJay Shetty1:32:14

        [laughs]

    18. SPSpeaker1:32:14

        Like, it's good for you to go and be bored. It's good for you, even if you could have a play date, to sit and watch. That is such an important thing to be a good human.

    19. JSJay Shetty1:32:24

        Mm.

    20. SPSpeaker1:32:24

        A- and it reminds me of the time that my kid was like, "Folding clothes is boring. Why do we have to do this?" And I found myself, I, I said this thing. I'm just like, "You know what? To be a good human, you just have to do things that are boring and unenjoyable sometimes." I, I don't know. I, I... but I think it's true.

    21. JSJay Shetty1:32:42

        It's true. It's true.

    22. SPSpeaker1:32:43

        It just... I don't have a better way of saying it, just... And my kid was like, "Oh, oh."

    23. JSJay Shetty1:32:46

        Yeah.

    24. SPSpeaker1:32:46

        It kind of like s- i- i- it struck him. Like, you know, no one had ever just said that.

    25. JSJay Shetty1:32:51

        Yeah.

    26. SPSpeaker1:32:51

        That's, like... So the fact that you had a childhood where there was this built-in routine of things that were mundane-

    27. JSJay Shetty1:32:58

        Yeah

    28. SPSpeaker1:32:59

        ... largely unenjoyable. You can make them enjoyable, put on the music, do things. We try to do that in our house. But actually, I think that's relieving for a parent, "Oh, I don't have to make my kid's life amazing in every moment." Going back to entitlement, like, what an individualist, relatively entitled view of the world to go forward. Like, I should spend 99% of my waking hours doing things that I want to do and bring me pleasure. Now, do I think you should spend some amount of time? Yes, a lot. But the idea that some of your childhood is doing things that are good for the family, that are more about being there for your sister, right? I think that is so important. But what it means is tolerating distress-

    29. JSJay Shetty1:33:43

        Yeah

    30. SPSpeaker1:33:43

        ... and tolerating pushback and tolerating whining. There's so much whining. Now, the other reason, though, I think chores are really important, they're a way to feel impactful.
23. 1:37:56 – 1:41:52

    The Pressure Parents Experience

    1. JSJay Shetty1:37:56

       pressure that parents are feeling right now about that overprotection is also feeling that they have to be available and monitoring and be around and entertain all the time, and it goes back to your... this point that you've spoken about the whole time.

    2. SPSpeaker1:38:11

       Yeah.

    3. JSJay Shetty1:38:11

       This dichotomy of we didn't get a lot of time from our parents growing up for a lot of people. Parents weren't around because they had to pay the bills and take care of stuff, and now it's the opposite, where parents feel like, "Well, I have to work from home. I have to be completely flexible. I have to be there all the time." And I feel like that's a lot of pressure for two reasons. One is you now feel like every waking moment has to be spent entertaining a kid, which is exhausting, but we all feel the pressure societally and culturally of if you don't, your kids can have trauma. And then the other side of it is we talk about what it means to be a good parent because it makes us feel good about ourselves, but not about what kids actually need.

    4. SPSpeaker1:38:54

       Mm.

    5. JSJay Shetty1:38:55

       So if I think about the difference between what makes me feel like a good husband versus what does my wife actually need, like, what makes me feel like a good husband is a, a long list of things that my wife would pick up on, be like, "Yeah, but I don't need any of that stuff," and, and I feel like kids might do the same.

    6. SPSpeaker1:39:13

       I think that's r- really smart. [scoffs] I haven't thought about it that way, but I, I, yeah, I think we should dive into that. I mean, I think we have an idea. What makes me feel good is if, yes, I'm always available, always watching, I'm always make sure they don't slip off the ladder of the playground, right? What does my kid feel? "Nobody trusts me. I don't have any space. I don't even know anymore what's me and what's my parent. Like, it's like we live [laughs] in this enmeshed world." Now, I don't think a kid could ever articulate, right? Again, we're not gonna hear from our eight-year-old, "I'd love a little more space."

    7. JSJay Shetty1:39:47

       [laughs]

    8. SPSpeaker1:39:48

       It's just not gonna happen, right?

    9. JSJay Shetty1:39:48

       I mean, yeah, until they're teenagers.

    10. SPSpeaker1:39:49

        But they might, they might say it in other ways, right? And I really don't think it's just me. I think The Good Inside really is this movement. It's ignited something in people. I think there's, like, a lot of us who are like, I... Yeah, this whole always being there, always fixing, right, um, always witnessing. This kind of way we've confused emotional safety with emotional comfort. Those are very different things. Um, I, I think there's, I think there's, like, a new wave, right?

    11. JSJay Shetty1:40:17

        Mm.

    12. SPSpeaker1:40:17

        I mean, I think one of the reasons why we're so resentful, we're so reactive, we can be so rageful, we're on our phones all the time around our kids, is 'cause we rarely have time without our kids, [laughs] right? And, and it's actually important for everyone.

    13. JSJay Shetty1:40:35

        Yeah.

    14. SPSpeaker1:40:35

        And again, people hear that, and they go to these awful, extreme places. "So you're just gonna slam your door and tell your kids you can't hang out with them?" No, nobody said that. I'm definitely not saying that. That would not be a good way to operationalize this concept, but helping your kids h- learn how to play independently, if you live in a neighborhood with other kids, helping them figure out that they can play on that neighbor's lawn and you don't have to be there. Maybe you're nervous, but maybe you, we have to fake it till you make it. You're like, "Yeah, I totally trust you," and then you turn and you're, like, texting your friend like, "Oh my goodness, help me through this. Okay, I have one window up top that actually is blackened from the outside so they can't see I'm watching them."

    15. JSJay Shetty1:41:07

        [laughs]

    16. SPSpeaker1:41:07

        But then maybe after a week, you're not doing that, right? Or for me too, letting our kids go to the grocery store without them. It is a leap of faith, and we all have different levels of anxiety to manage, but I think that's right. Kids need space. Of course, kids need attention. They like to be witnessed, but I mean, imagine your wife-

    17. JSJay Shetty1:41:29

        Yeah

    18. SPSpeaker1:41:29

        ... following you around at every moment.

    19. JSJay Shetty1:41:32

        Mm-hmm.

    20. SPSpeaker1:41:32

        Beyond probably on some level feeling annoying-

    21. JSJay Shetty1:41:35

        Mm-hmm

    22. SPSpeaker1:41:35

        ... there's a message of like, "Uh, uh, I actually don't trust you."

    23. JSJay Shetty1:41:38

        Yeah.

    24. SPSpeaker1:41:39

        "And I also don't trust our relationship enough to feel like we could have that be strong if you are also your own person." And I think, yeah, I think we really need to redefine parenthood-

    25. JSJay Shetty1:41:50

        Yeah

    26. SPSpeaker1:41:50

        ... along those lines.

    27. JSJay Shetty1:41:51

        Yeah, no, I'm glad.

24. 1:41:52 – 1:50:46

    Independence Vs Dependence

    1. JSJay Shetty1:41:52

       Yeah, no, I was just thinking about it. I was just like, when you think about any other space, it's almost like if I... From any job, if I serve burgers at McDonald's, my worth is not calculated by if I feel good doing that. It's calculated by what the customer needs and wants. So if the customer ords- orders a cheeseburger and I serve them a Coke and fries because that makes me feel better, that's not accurate. It's about-

    2. SPSpeaker1:42:18

       Yeah.

    3. JSJay Shetty1:42:18

       And so I'm not saying we have to do what our kids want.

    4. SPSpeaker1:42:21

       Totally.

    5. JSJay Shetty1:42:21

       It's probably a bad example, actually. I take that back. But, but there's a sense of like, am I aware of what children actually need?

    6. SPSpeaker1:42:27

       Need. I think-

    7. JSJay Shetty1:42:28

       What do children actually need is a... That's a bad metaphor, but yeah, it's, it's like what do children actually need versus what makes me feel good in the moment.

    8. SPSpeaker1:42:35

       I think that's right.

    9. JSJay Shetty1:42:36

       Yeah.

    10. SPSpeaker1:42:36

        And look, there's this dance, the dance between independence and dependence.

    11. JSJay Shetty1:42:42

        Mm.

    12. SPSpeaker1:42:42

        It, it's constant, right? Independence grows from the safety of dependence.

    13. JSJay Shetty1:42:48

        Mm.

    14. SPSpeaker1:42:49

        It's true for us, too. I'm sure in part you feel like you can try all these new things and, you know, be honest and vulnerable in part maybe because you feel like at the end of the day, I have my wife I can come home to. Like-

    15. JSJay Shetty1:43:00

        Yeah

    16. SPSpeaker1:43:01

        ... I have a secure base-

    17. JSJay Shetty1:43:02

        Yeah

    18. SPSpeaker1:43:02

        ... which means I can go explore. That's really important.

    19. JSJay Shetty1:43:06

        Yeah.

    20. SPSpeaker1:43:06

        So yes, the time we spend with our kids, the way we connect with them, but the truth is, after those stages of intense kind of connection or dependence, the way kids actually grow is from the safety of dependence, they do things that are new.

    21. JSJay Shetty1:43:23

        Makes so much sense.

    22. SPSpeaker1:43:23

        It's, it's when so many parents say like, "I feel so guilty. I'm going on a trip away from my kid, and my kid's upset," right? And I often ask, "Well, who are they staying with?" "I don't know. They're staying with grandma," someone who they're like-

    23. JSJay Shetty1:43:33

        Yeah

    24. SPSpeaker1:43:33

        ... or they're staying with their partner or someone who they're perfectly safe with.

    25. JSJay Shetty1:43:36

        Yeah.

    26. SPSpeaker1:43:36

        And they're like, "Is this, is this so bad for them?" And I always say the same thing, and I mean it.Not, not only do I think it's good for them, I think your kid is gonna consolidate all of the skills you've been working on them with

    27. JSJay Shetty1:43:48

        Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm

    28. SPSpeaker1:43:49

        Right? It's kind of like if you're a basketball player and you have a coach, and they're watching and they're watching, and they're working on this thing. You need time in the gym without that coach-

    29. JSJay Shetty1:43:57

        Yeah

    30. SPSpeaker1:43:57

        ... to then kind of go do the thing, and then you know what? You're gonna get back with a coach and work on the next thing. But I just want parents to hear that. Yes, be there. That connection, that validation, and then the periods where either you're traveling or you're not there, that is actually probably the time your kid can bring it all together, and not only consolidate skills, that's when you know it's yours.
25. 1:50:46 – 2:00:46

    The Fear Of Patterns Repeating

    1. JSJay Shetty1:50:46

       listening, going, "Look, I love my parents. They weren't perfect, but I, I love them," and, or maybe they actually cause me a lot of pain, but, you know, it is what it is. How do I not be like them?

    2. SPSpeaker1:50:57

       Yeah.

    3. JSJay Shetty1:50:57

       Uh, because that's what I'm most scared of. Because yeah, I am probably carrying some trauma, and maybe I feel positively to them, but maybe there's one of them that I never wanna talk to again, and I-

    4. SPSpeaker1:51:07

       Yeah

    5. JSJay Shetty1:51:07

       ... but I'm scared of becoming them.

    6. SPSpeaker1:51:09

       A- and I totally understand that fear, and, and what I'd say to that person, uh, first is, uh, like, I hope you give yourself a lot of credit for even just naming that and letting yourself see that. There are things in my parents that I love and I appreciate, and there are things I wanna do really differently. I'm so scared of repeating that pattern. That, that, I would just say that's kind of amazing and brave to even just name that. That's step one. Step two, I'd actually just wanna learn more. Tell me more. What, what don't you wanna be like? Well, I would have never talked to my parent when I was in a tricky situation. I felt like my parents were just controlling, judgmental. Like, I'd wanna get more specific, right? Okay, so what I think is helpful to know, again, is parenting is like a language, right? And if you were brought up in English, that's right, and you want to speak a little English, but also Mandarin, your first instinct with your kid, even as you're learning Mandarin, is going to be English. It just is, especially in stressful moments.

    7. JSJay Shetty1:52:06

       Mm-hmm.

    8. SPSpeaker1:52:07

       And, and that's okay. That doesn't mean you're failing. It just means probably gotta go back to those Mandarin lessons-

    9. JSJay Shetty1:52:12

       Yeah

    10. SPSpeaker1:52:12

        ... and you go repair, and you keep going. So I just also want people to know, that's, that's what change looks like. No one goes and does a complete 180.

    11. JSJay Shetty1:52:20

        Mm-hmm.

    12. SPSpeaker1:52:20

        But people underestimate, if you think about your family lineage like a ship, and it's going toward a certain destination, you're like, "I don't wanna go there," even a small shift in the ocean leads to a dramatically different destination.

    13. JSJay Shetty1:52:33

        Mm-hmm.

    14. SPSpeaker1:52:34

        Right? And that's what cycle breaking is. And then I think we work on one thing at a time. Okay, let's say it's, "I really want my kid to be the kind of kid who can come to me. Stakes are even higher now. There's stuff on TikTok. It's sex, drugs. I want my kid to come to me. I would have never with my parent. It still haunts me, things that happened because I didn't or they yelled at me." Great. I'd be like, "Okay, well, how old's your kid now?" "Five." "Okay, let's start building that." Because I think that's a topic that comes up a lot, the idea that whether or not our teen comes to us in tricky moments is something that, like, magically starts in the teenage years-

    15. JSJay Shetty1:53:08

        Yeah

    16. SPSpeaker1:53:08

        ... as if there's no history to it.

    17. JSJay Shetty1:53:10

        Yeah.

    18. SPSpeaker1:53:11

        Right? So let's think about how you respond when your kid hits. Let's think about what happens, ooh, you just got a email from school that your kid stole a truck from his friend's cubby. These things seem very small compared to sex and drugs and rock and roll, but in a way, they're the same circuit.

    19. JSJay Shetty1:53:28

        Mm.

    20. SPSpeaker1:53:28

        I did something I know you're not gonna approve of. Frankly, I did something even I feel shameful about.

    21. JSJay Shetty1:53:35

        Mm-hmm.

    22. SPSpeaker1:53:35

        How do we deal with that in this family? Now, what do I think that parent's first instinct is gonna be? What do you think?

    23. JSJay Shetty1:53:43

        Yeah, like, "Oh my God, I can't believe you stole the truck. What's wrong with you?" Like-

    24. SPSpeaker1:53:46

        What, exact-

    25. JSJay Shetty1:53:47

        Yeah

    26. SPSpeaker1:53:47

        ... "What's wrong with you?"

    27. JSJay Shetty1:53:47

        Yeah, yeah.

    28. SPSpeaker1:53:47

        "Go to your room. And by the way, when you go to your room, I took away all your trucks."

    29. JSJay Shetty1:53:51

        [laughs]

    30. SPSpeaker1:53:51

        Like, I don't know. By the way, I get... it's just what we-

Episode duration: 2:00:47