Dr. Gabor Maté: The #1 Reason You Never Feel Like You’re Enough (And How to Fix it)

1. 0:00 – 0:41

   Intro

   1. JSJay Shetty0:00

      I truly am so excited to be here tonight at the Orpheum Theatre in Vancouver with a dear friend, someone that I consider to be the utmost expert, GOAT, the greatest of all time in his space. Like, there is no one-

   2. GMDr. Gabor Maté0:16

      [cheering]

   3. JSJay Shetty0:16

      -uh, like Dr. Gabor Maté. Um-

   4. GMDr. Gabor Maté0:19

      Could you say more about that?

   5. JSJay Shetty0:21

      [laughing]

   6. GMDr. Gabor Maté0:21

      [laughing]

   7. JSJay Shetty0:22

      We've been talking tonight about worrying about how we're perceived by others-

   8. GMDr. Gabor Maté0:29

      Yeah

   9. JSJay Shetty0:29

      ...and how that blocks us-

   10. GMDr. Gabor Maté0:32

       Yeah

   11. JSJay Shetty0:32

       ...from things in our life.

   12. GMDr. Gabor Maté0:34

       Yeah.

   13. JSJay Shetty0:35

       Where does that come from? Why is it that we're so obsessed and addicted to what people

2. 0:41 – 3:10

   Why Do We Care So Much About Others’ Opinions?

   1. JSJay Shetty0:41

      think about us?

   2. GMDr. Gabor Maté0:42

      Well, it's a great topic, and I think in this culture it's a fundamental one. Um, there's a wonderful, um, Catholic monk and mystic called Thomas Merton who talked about how we live in other people's minds. So when we're concerned about what other people think of us, how they see us, perceive us, judge us, love us, hate us, we're not living in, in ourselves. We're living in other people's minds.

   3. JSJay Shetty1:10

      Wow.

   4. GMDr. Gabor Maté1:10

      So where does that come from? One of the needs of the human child, it's an essential need. Just as we have the need to be held physically, to be fed, to be nurtured, we also have the need to be seen because we get to see ourselves the way others see us. When the parents can't see the child in the child's essence, in the child's... Well, the great psychiatrist, um, and co-writer with Oprah, of, uh, Bruce Perry, has written a book called Born for Love, and we're essentially born for love. It's, it's, it's, it's a developmental need. And love isn't just how do people feel about us. It's do they see us? And if they can't see us for we are, for who we are because of their own limitations, and a lot of parents have trouble doing that, I certainly did, then the child wants to be seen in a positive way by the parent. And then they'll change themselves, hide parts of themselves, exag-exaggerate other parts of themselves, basically create an image that they want the other person to see 'cause they can't see the real person. So really it comes from our earliest relationships where we were not seen for who we are. Had we been seen for who we are, we would just accept ourselves and not be so concerned with other people see us. So it goes back to our earliest days in homes where the parents actually love the child. We're not blaming the parent here. We're saying that the parents' own limitations prevent them from seeing their child for exactly who they are, then the child will mold themselves into whoever the parents wants them to be.

   5. JSJay Shetty2:50

      Wow. How do you see someone for who they are and not who you want them to be, who you think they could be, or just the best parts of them? Because what I'm hearing is that's what we end up doing, right?

   6. GMDr. Gabor Maté3:04

      Yeah. Well, well, that's the key question. And, um,

3. 3:10 – 4:53

   Learning to Love People the Way They Need

   1. GMDr. Gabor Maté3:10

      somewhere I heard you say that people love you, but they may not love you the way you want them to love you. And we actually have trouble loving people the way they need to be loved. We think that love is the feeling that we have for them, and that's certainly true, but it's much more than that. You can have all kinds of loving feeling towards somebody but be limited by your own traumas from seeing them for who they are. And then, and also a lot of parents in this culture wants their kid to fit in with the culture. Now, that means you have a preconceived idea of who the child should be, and then when you don't see the child as the way you want them to be, you're dissatisfied with them. And now the child will be even more impetus to fit themselves into the parents' expectations. So it's, it comes from this culture's incapacity to see people for who they actually are.

   2. JSJay Shetty4:13

      Mm. Yeah, I mean, as I'm listening to you, I'm thinking about just the amount of moments there are in our lives where the person's trauma creates new challenges for us-

   3. GMDr. Gabor Maté4:31

      Yeah

   4. JSJay Shetty4:32

      ...that doesn't get healed, that then gets passed on.

   5. GMDr. Gabor Maté4:35

      Exactly.

   6. JSJay Shetty4:35

      How do people in this room, how do we all make sure that we are people where that cycle stops, that we can break that cycle, that we can interrupt that pattern, that we can be the people in our families, in the lives of people who have children? Even if you don't choose to,

4. 4:53 – 6:46

   How Childhood Shapes Our Need for Approval

   1. JSJay Shetty4:53

      how do you become the person that changes that trajectory for your family?

   2. GMDr. Gabor Maté4:58

      At some point, something has to happen for you that causes you to wonder, "Who am I really? And everything that I manifest and speak and do, is it designed to fit other people's expectations or does it line up with who I really am?" And people get to that point, and that's what they call the midlife crisis, actually. And, uh, all of a sudden you start wondering, "Whose life, l-whose life am I leading anyway?" I certainly went through that. Still going through it.

   3. JSJay Shetty5:30

      [laughing]

   4. GMDr. Gabor Maté5:31

      80, 80, 81 years old and still going through a midlife crisis, you know? [laughing]

   5. JSJay Shetty5:35

      See, you're not too old out here.

   6. GMDr. Gabor Maté5:37

      Yeah.

   7. JSJay Shetty5:37

      Twenty-six is all right. You're doing just fine.

   8. GMDr. Gabor Maté5:40

      Yeah. You're doing just fine out there. [audience cheering] So... But what I'm saying, Jay, is there has to be a questioning there. At some point, you have to recognize that it's not working the way that feels good in the heart or in the gut. So there has to be that recognition, then there has to be a curiosity. Now, you're asking about future generations, but the way wGift future generations is by actually working on ourselves. Not by trying to be better parents, but by actually dealing with our own stuff. That's the way we avoid, as best we can, passing it on to the next generation.

   9. JSJay Shetty6:23

      [audience cheering] I think one of the ways the inner critic and that inner voice keeps us imprisoned is that it makes us believe we're only valuable when we're busy.

   10. GMDr. Gabor Maté6:40

       Yeah.

   11. JSJay Shetty6:41

       We're only valuable if this, right?

   12. GMDr. Gabor Maté6:43

       No, wait, no, no.

   13. JSJay Shetty6:43

       Fill in the blank.

   14. GMDr. Gabor Maté6:44

       Wait a minute.

5. 6:46 – 11:02

   The Dangerous Belief: “I’m Only Valuable If…”

   1. GMDr. Gabor Maté6:46

      Did the guy who just starts a thirteen-city tour in two weeks just ask me that question?

   2. JSJay Shetty6:51

      [laughing] You can't expose me on my own show, Gabor. Come on.

   3. GMDr. Gabor Maté6:58

      [laughing] Look, look, I just... Believe me, my wife's in the audience, and, uh, she once said to me, um, "Buddy, you've written a book called When the Body Says No. Now you better write one called When the Wife Says No."

   4. JSJay Shetty7:11

      [laughing]

   5. GMDr. Gabor Maté7:12

      Precisely for the same reason. [laughing]

   6. JSJay Shetty7:16

      That's so good. That's so good.

   7. GMDr. Gabor Maté7:18

      Yeah.

   8. JSJay Shetty7:18

      You didn't answer my question.

   9. GMDr. Gabor Maté7:19

      Sorry? [laughing]

   10. JSJay Shetty7:20

       [laughing]

   11. GMDr. Gabor Maté7:21

       Sorry, I missed what you said.

   12. JSJay Shetty7:22

       No, I was saying, um, yeah, I mean, me included, we definitely have that belief that I am valuable if... And fill in the blank.

   13. GMDr. Gabor Maté7:31

       Yeah.

   14. JSJay Shetty7:31

       It could be I'm only valuable if I'm busy. I'm only valuable if this person says I am. I'm only valuable if I get promoted. I'm only valuable-

   15. GMDr. Gabor Maté7:40

       I know, and w-we, we do have this idea that we're only as valuable as how we appear or what we do, but not for who we are. And that, again, goes back to very early days. And I've often talked about something my friend, the, uh, great trauma psychologist pioneer Peter Levine said to me a couple of years ago. And Peter is, I think, a year or two older than I am. He's done an amazing work in the world, one of my mentors. And Peter said, "If I ask myself, have I done enough? The answer is very much yes. But if I ask myself the question, am I enough? I still don't know the answer." You know, and in this society, we're very much programmed to identify our value with what we do. And it's very interesting when I talk to people about it because people will tell me, "I'm only as valuable as I, as what I do." And I ask them this question, "Do you value me," talking about myself, "as a human being?" And they say, "Yeah, of course." I say, "Okay, what if, God forbid, tomorrow I'd have a stroke and I couldn't speak, and I couldn't move, and I couldn't give anything to anybody? Would you say to me then, 'Gabor, you're worthless'?" And they say, "Of course not." I say, "Then why are you saying it to yourself? Why are you saying to yourself that you're only as valuable as what you do?" So that there's this inner concept that I'm only as valuable as what I do or how I show up. There's a tremendous lack of self-compassion.

   16. JSJay Shetty9:16

       Wow. That's, yeah. Yeah, please give it up. That's-

   17. GMDr. Gabor Maté9:19

       [audience applauding]

   18. JSJay Shetty9:24

       I've never thought about it like that. And the dis- the distinction you just made between those two questions.

   19. GMDr. Gabor Maté9:30

       Yeah.

   20. JSJay Shetty9:30

       Have I done enough? Am I enough?

   21. GMDr. Gabor Maté9:33

       Yeah.

   22. JSJay Shetty9:33

       How do we learn to give a positive, genuinely true answer to the second one? How do we rewire when the whole world is telling us, like, what you do is who you are, your title, your followers, your Instagram bio, your... Right? The whole world is telling us that. How do you kind of even begin to remaneuver how the mind is being programmed?

   23. GMDr. Gabor Maté9:58

       Yeah. Well, it's... I can't say that I've fully worked it out, but two things come to mind when I hear your question. One is, would you say to a one-day-old baby who can't do a thing, would you ever say to them or believe about them, "You're not enough"? And of course you wouldn't. Then why are you saying it to yourself, okay? So that's the first answer. And then the second answer is, who's even asking?

   24. JSJay Shetty10:30

       [laughing]

   25. GMDr. Gabor Maté10:30

       Who, you know?

   26. JSJay Shetty10:32

       [laughing]

   27. GMDr. Gabor Maté10:38

       [laughing]

   28. JSJay Shetty10:44

       Gabor, on the flip side of feeling like we only have value because we work hard, a lot of us are guilty or feel guilty for resting. If you look at the studies in the United States-

   29. GMDr. Gabor Maté10:56

       Yeah

   30. JSJay Shetty10:56

       ... high percentages of people don't use their annual leave, and the annual vacation

6. 11:02 – 12:37

   Why Do We Feel Guilty When We Rest?

   1. JSJay Shetty11:02

      in the US is far less. I'm hoping in Canada people use their annual leave.

   2. GMDr. Gabor Maté11:07

      [audience cheering]

   3. JSJay Shetty11:08

      Uh, yeah, there you go. Uh, and in the UK, we definitely use our annual leave.

   4. GMDr. Gabor Maté11:14

      [audience cheering]

   5. JSJay Shetty11:16

      Uh, [laughs] but, but there's that sense that we all still feel a slight guilt for resting. We feel a guilt for taking a break.

   6. GMDr. Gabor Maté11:23

      I can totally relate. When I was a busy and workaholic family doctor, literally, and, you know, I used to deliver babies and look after pregnant women, I'd feel terrible going on holiday with my family because somebody might gi- give birth without me. You know, it's like, imagine somebody in the world is born without me. How is that-

   7. JSJay Shetty11:43

      [laughing]

   8. GMDr. Gabor Maté11:43

      You know? [laughs] How is that? How did humanity survive all those millions of years, you know?

   9. JSJay Shetty11:50

      [laughing]

   10. GMDr. Gabor Maté11:51

       But the, that voice in me that says, "I'm committed to that patient, I have to be there," and then the sense of guilt that I'm actually looking after myself, um, that comes from that same belief that we're not enough unless we're doing something.

   11. JSJay Shetty12:05

       Mm.

   12. GMDr. Gabor Maté12:05

       That, that, that lack of, um...Valuation of ourselves just for being

   13. JSJay Shetty12:11

       Yeah. That, I mean, that resonates so strongly, and so many of us are constantly challenged by it. Walk us through what's actually happening to the brain when we stress ourselves physically or get close to burnout. What's actually happening to us that we don't see the invisible effects? We know that we get tired, we get exhausted, but what's actually happening inside

7. 12:37 – 16:19

   What Stress Is Really Doing to Your Brain and Body

   1. JSJay Shetty12:37

      that we often miss?

   2. GMDr. Gabor Maté12:38

      Well, so stress, by the way, we Canadians can be proud of the word stress because actually it was coined right here in Canada in the way that we use it today. Um-

   3. JSJay Shetty12:50

      I didn't know that.

   4. GMDr. Gabor Maté12:51

      Yeah, I know. A lot of people don't. It was coined by a- another fellow Hungarian of mine, um, called János Sorhan Selye, S-E-L-Y-E, who was a physician and researcher who came to Canada in the early twentieth century just after the First World War, and he did his research on stress at University of Montreal in Montreal. And he's the one that showed in the laboratory the impact of stress on, uh, diminishing the immune system, overgrowing the adrenal gland, which is the stress gland, and ulcerating the intestines. And he's the one that... The stress-- The word stress wasn't new, but the way he used it was new. He's the one who established it internationally. And the thing about stress is it's an essential response to life challenges. If you're confronting a threat, you better have a stress response, which means you'll have activation of your nervous system, uh, in a good way, and this makes you more alert. Uh, you'll have more adrenaline to give you more energy and strength to fight back, more cortisol that gives you more blood sugar to have energy for the challenge ahead. In the long term, that's a positive and necessary physiological response of all animals. In the long term, those same stress hormones, and this is something that my profession, the medical profession, I only wish would understand and practice more, is, is that in the long term, those same stress hormones give you high blood pressure, constrict your blood vessels, high risk of strokes and, and, and heart disease, thin your bones, so you get osteoporosis, suppress the immune system, or can even turn it against you, so you get autoimmune disease, make you depressed, put fat on your belly so that you're more at risk of heart disease, turn on genes that can cause cancer, turns off genes that can protect you against cancer and cause inflammation in the body. So this is what we all bring on ourselves, and people don't realize how because they've taken on these driven values of this culture, they're actually literally making themselves sick. And sometimes it takes an illness to wake people up, and I don't recommend that way of waking up, but my God, it works that way very often. One of the Greek playwrights, uh, Aeschylus, wrote in, in a play called Agamemnon, written twenty-four hundred years ago, and he said that, that the way that the gods created us human beings, that we have to suffer into truth. We have to have pain, uh, to wake us up to reality. And unfortunately, too often it's the stresses that we impose on ourselves that then create pain, illness, dysfunction, that then wake us up, that maybe the way I'm living isn't the way I'm meant to live. But it-- I hate, I hate... I don't hate it. I, I regret that that's what people have to wake up, but it often is. Certainly, I have to be dragged kicking and screaming to the truth. I don't gravitate there automatically.

   5. JSJay Shetty16:01

      Yeah. Well, well everyone here is obviously extremely proactive, committed, trying their best. They're self-aware. They, they want to do the work. If someone's sitting there right now and wondering, "Gabor, I notice stress early. I can see it's getting worse. What do I do? Where do I

8. 16:19 – 21:05

   Saying “No” Is Essential for Your Wellbeing

   1. JSJay Shetty16:19

      start? What should I be thinking about doing, changing, shifting? If I want to walk out of here tonight and I want to really prioritize this because I don't want to end up with that long laundry list of-

   2. GMDr. Gabor Maté16:30

      Yeah

   3. JSJay Shetty16:30

      ... pains in my life, what should I do?" What would you say?

   4. GMDr. Gabor Maté16:33

      Well, um, read my books. [audience laughing] But, uh, um, well, ac-actually, [chuckles] actually, I did mention a book I wrote called When the Body Says No, which is the whole point, is that when you don't say no, the body will say it for you in a form of illness. In my most recent book that we've discussed, discussed before, The Myth of Normal, there's actually a whole chapter on this. And when I say this, this simple question to the inquiry that you just made for that person, I would say, "Where in your life are you not saying no?" And by that I mean, where there's a no that wants to be said-

   5. JSJay Shetty17:14

      Mm.

   6. GMDr. Gabor Maté17:15

      ... but you're not saying it because you're afraid of how the world will perceive you. You're, you're afraid that people will, will not like you. You're afraid that people might be disappointed in you. Where is there a no that your organism wants to say, but you're not saying it? Start with that. Uh, where this week did I not say no? Where today did I not say no? And that usually happens in two arenas of life, uh, in personal relationships. It happens all the time in personal relationships. Um, and, and in work, where there's a no that wants to be said, but you're not saying it again to you, that the no that you're not saying is gonna be a source of stress for you. So that's the first question. Other questions follow, but that's the first one. Where am I not saying no?

   7. JSJay Shetty18:02

      That's a great first question.

   8. GMDr. Gabor Maté18:03

      Yeah.

   9. JSJay Shetty18:04

      Everyone, everyone resonate with that? That idea of where am I not saying no? [audience applauding] That, that resonates so strongly with me because I think you're spot on. We all-- We were talking about that in the first half. We were talking about that inner voice.That if you just sit and listen to it, but we're moving so fast, we're so busy that that no can be really quiet.

   10. GMDr. Gabor Maté18:24

       Yeah.

   11. JSJay Shetty18:24

       And it's like this little whisper that's barely getting through.

   12. GMDr. Gabor Maté18:26

       Well, that small still voice that the Bible talks about, right? And, and there's a related question as well, which comes later in this same exercise, you might say, which is, where am I not saying yes? There were times in my life where I had certain creative urges or desires, but I was too busy not saying no, that there was no space for me to say yes to what I wanted to say yes to. So those two questions, where am I not saying no? [clears throat] Excuse me. [clears throat] I just came back from a 12-day speaking trip, so my voice is saying no, you know? [laughs]

   13. JSJay Shetty19:00

       [laughs] And here you are.

   14. GMDr. Gabor Maté19:01

       Yeah. I like to see you at the end of this trip.

   15. JSJay Shetty19:05

       [laughs]

   16. GMDr. Gabor Maté19:05

       [laughs] But, but, um, those two questions, th-those two little words, yes and no, they're crucial in people's lives.

   17. JSJay Shetty19:15

       Mm.

   18. GMDr. Gabor Maté19:15

       They're small little words in every language. They're very short little words. You know, German, nein, Hungarian, nem, um, Russian, nyet, you know, French, non. Really short little words, but they're just decisive in people's lives. And it's v-very interesting, those of you that have been parents, what is the word that your kids start saying at one and a half?

   19. JSJay Shetty19:39

       [laughs]

   20. GMDr. Gabor Maté19:41

       No. Put your shoes on. No.

   21. JSJay Shetty19:44

       [laughs]

   22. GMDr. Gabor Maté19:46

       And, and you think... As a matter of fact, I had a friend-- I, I've told this story before. I had a friend called Harold who had a son called Ben, and we were medical residents at the same time. This is decades ago. It's only forty-seven years ago. And, um, Be- uh, Harold, the father, says to his son, Ben, who's two years old, "Ben, do you want an apple?" And Ben said, "No, I want an apple."

   23. JSJay Shetty20:10

       [laughs]

   24. GMDr. Gabor Maté20:10

       And, and what that's about is the, is nature putting a barrier for the child bewhench- behind which he can develop his own self. And before your yeses mean anything, you have to be able to say no.

   25. JSJay Shetty20:26

       Mm.

   26. GMDr. Gabor Maté20:27

       And in this society, we call that, in our stupidity, we call that the terrible twos.

   27. JSJay Shetty20:33

       [laughs]

   28. GMDr. Gabor Maté20:35

       When it's perfectly natural.

   29. JSJay Shetty20:37

       Wow.

   30. GMDr. Gabor Maté20:38

       You know? So we start with that word, and then we stifle it in people, and at age forty-five, they don't know how to say no.
9. 21:05 – 23:44

   The Power of Asking Yourself Honest Questions

   1. JSJay Shetty21:05

      almost kind of fool ourselves.

   2. GMDr. Gabor Maté21:07

      Well, we do. And, and, and the Buddha said, uh, uh, twenty-five hundred years ago in so many, almost in so many words, that with our minds, we create the world. Now, if you've, if your mind lives in a world where you saying no threatens you, then you're not gonna say no. Now, what the Buddha didn't say is that, which is more modern psychology, is that before the, our minds create the world, the world creates our minds. So if you grew up in a family where you know wasn't respected, where it was seen as a sign of, mm, disrespect, disobedience, something to be suppressed or punished, and your acceptance depended on your acquiescence, then you will forget how to say no in order to protect yourself.

   3. JSJay Shetty22:01

      Yeah.

   4. GMDr. Gabor Maté22:01

      So it, it, it starts off as an adaptation. Sometimes when I give my lectures, I play a song by Elvis Presley. Did you see that wonderful documentary by Presley, about Presley called "The Return of the King"?

   5. JSJay Shetty22:13

      I haven't seen that one, but-

   6. GMDr. Gabor Maté22:14

      Okay.

   7. JSJay Shetty22:14

      Yeah.

   8. GMDr. Gabor Maté22:14

      It's wonderful. He, he, he goes through this phase where he sings terrible songs, where he gives up on his incredible charismatic energy and talent, and he just becomes a puppet in the hands of his manager. And then he does this comeback concert, and he shows up on stage dressed like a god in leather clothing. [chuckles] Just the most beautiful man on Earth, and he sings his raw, raucous, ribald, wonderful rock and roll, and he's fully himself. But then he gave that up. And he sings this song called "Any Way You Want Me," "That's the way I'll be. I'll be strong as a mountain or weak as a willow tree. I'll be anything that you want me to be." And that's how he ended up living his life. He ended up dying, um, very young in very tragic circumstances. He's somebody whose raw genius was of world significance, and his energy was unbelievable, and he gave it all up.

   9. JSJay Shetty23:22

      Yeah. It's, uh-

   10. GMDr. Gabor Maté23:23

       And he paid a heavy price.

   11. JSJay Shetty23:24

       Yeah. Those stories, and when we have hindsight, can be so powerful for us-

   12. GMDr. Gabor Maté23:29

       Yeah

   13. JSJay Shetty23:30

       ... even if we're not living that life or whatever it may be. They're so powerful for us to look back on. And tonight, I wanted to make this an extremely special experience because I want you to know just how deeply grateful I am that you're here today.

10. 23:44 – 29:52

    How to Listen to Your Gut Again

    1. JSJay Shetty23:44

       And I've asked Dr. Gabor as my first guest if he was comfortable leading and guiding an individual who wanted to go through his compassionate inquiry personally in this seat up here tonight. And so if there's anyone who's going through something, feels like they've been held back, feel like they've been challenged, who wants to, before we take questions, would like to go through a process in front of the audience, he'd happily walk you through. So if you wanna just raise your hands, and I'll have a look around.

    2. GMDr. Gabor Maté24:17

       Well, thanks for coming up. I hope you're not nervous. There's only a thousand stranger-And thousands of strangers are watching you. Um, what would you like to talk about?

    3. SPSpeaker24:25

       I'm on your chapter on attunement, attunement. Um-

    4. GMDr. Gabor Maté24:28

       Yeah.

    5. SPSpeaker24:28

       -and I, I guess I would love to hear it from, from your point of view because I think I'm really trying, as of this week, uh, to stop trying to explain myself and re-find my instinct and listen to my gut. And I would just, just stop trying to be seen. Stop trying to explain myself is something I'm really working on right now and something I, I wanna pass on to my children and would really love to see how that starts, and I think you guys kind of gave a really good intro to that today.

    6. GMDr. Gabor Maté25:01

       All right. Thank you. So are you concerned about if you don't figure this out, that might affect your children somehow?

    7. SPSpeaker25:08

       Yeah.

    8. GMDr. Gabor Maté25:09

       Okay. Well, let's start with the beginning. [clears throat] How old are your kids? You said one and three?

    9. SPSpeaker25:13

       Yes.

    10. GMDr. Gabor Maté25:15

        And how old were you when your mother began to work on herself?

    11. SPSpeaker25:22

        [chuckles] That's a tough question. [laughs]

    12. GMDr. Gabor Maté25:26

        Well, what's the answer?

    13. SPSpeaker25:28

        Um, probably now. [laughs]

    14. GMDr. Gabor Maté25:30

        Okay. What would it have meant for you if your mother had begun to work on herself when you were one years old?

    15. SPSpeaker25:38

        It would've made a big, big difference.

    16. GMDr. Gabor Maté25:40

        How so?

    17. SPSpeaker25:43

        Uh, um-

    18. GMDr. Gabor Maté25:45

        You would know who you were.

    19. SPSpeaker25:46

        Yes.

    20. GMDr. Gabor Maté25:47

        You've already given that gift to your children. Notice that, okay? 'Cause you've already begun that work. You've already began to answer those quest- ask those questions. So you got nothing to worry about. That's the first point, okay? The second point is, who's the one who's even asking the question? Who's the one that notices that sometimes you don't follow your gut, that sometimes you don't listen to your heart? Who's the one in you that notices that?

    21. SPSpeaker26:22

        Me.

    22. GMDr. Gabor Maté26:23

        Yeah. So you're already here. You say, "I'm trying to be myself." You don't have to try anything. It's already here. You just have to pay more attention to it. Now, that part of you that sees and asks, can you check in with that in your body? What does that feel like in your body?

    23. SPSpeaker26:47

        Peace.

    24. GMDr. Gabor Maté26:49

        Yeah. Peace, but you said it with a kind of a scrunched-up face. You said, "Peace." [audience laughing] W-w-just check in again. I'm not criticizing you. I'm just noticing, like you're not quite ready to believe yourself. So check in again. That part of you that notices and is committing, committed to being you and is committed to helping your children be themselves, how does that part feel like inside you?

    25. SPSpeaker27:24

        Confidence.

    26. GMDr. Gabor Maté27:26

        Thank you. Now, notice how you said that? With absolute confidence. What else do you need to know? Is there anything else you need to know? I'm asking you.

    27. SPSpeaker27:38

        [laughs]

    28. SPSpeaker27:38

        [laughing]

    29. SPSpeaker27:41

        So how do you just be confident, I guess?

    30. GMDr. Gabor Maté27:45

        You just did it.
11. 29:52 – 33:23

    A Live Compassionate Inquiry Session

    1. JSJay Shetty29:52

       the path.

    2. GMDr. Gabor Maté29:52

       Yeah.

    3. JSJay Shetty29:53

       We constantly think we're not doing the work.

    4. GMDr. Gabor Maté29:55

       Yeah.

    5. JSJay Shetty29:55

       We constantly think that there's something wrong with us and something broken.

    6. GMDr. Gabor Maté29:59

       Right.

    7. JSJay Shetty29:59

       And you were just saying, actually, that is the challenge, that, you know, that-

    8. GMDr. Gabor Maté30:04

       Yeah. And I'm sa-

    9. JSJay Shetty30:05

       That is-

    10. GMDr. Gabor Maté30:05

        Yeah, and I'm saying that whether for you or for me or anybody in this audience, whatever you think is wrong with you at some point served a purpose. So for Christina, at some point, disconnecting from her gut feelings served a purpose of being accepted.By the people that she had to be accepted by. It wasn't a mistake. It wasn't a moral failure. It was an adaptation. The problem is that these early adaptations then become ingrained, and that which was helpful in one situation becomes a limitation in another situation. But asking ourselves the right questions will get us back to source. I-- If I may mention, I'm wearing this bracelet here, and I was given this in Haida Gwaii, where I-- which is-- is-- People in British Columbia know that it's a beautiful set of islands in the north of our province, where indigenous people have lived for something like ten or twelve thousand years, and then it was colonized, and they were treated terribly. And I gave a trauma workshop up there a year and a half ago, and an elderly woman came up to me, and I've told this story before, of she was so ashamed of herself because she forgot her native tribal national language. And I said, "Well, what happened to you?" And I was given this bracelet at that workshop. And she-- I-- What happened was she went to a residen-residential school where indigenous people had to surrender their children to the state and to the church, and she made the mistake of speaking her native tongue, at which point they took a stake and they beat her.

    11. JSJay Shetty31:49

        Wow.

    12. GMDr. Gabor Maté31:49

        Her forgetting her language at that point saved her life. And then she was ashamed. "I didn't fight back." I said, "Okay, you were five years old. Could you escape?" "No." "Could you ask for help?" "No." "What would happen if you fought back?" "They might have killed me." So not fighting back, what she's judging herself as cowardice, was actually her organism's wisdom to save her life. And what I'm saying is that all these things in ourselves, that's an extreme example, but all these things in ourselves that we berate ourselves for, judge ourselves for, criticize ourselves for, they began as adaptations. We need to be very kind to ourselves, and that's why I'm saying compassionate inquiry. Uh, there's a spiritual teacher who says that only when compassion is present will people allow themselves to see the truth. Well, that compassion needs to be extended to ourselves, and then we can extend it to others as well.

    13. JSJay Shetty32:55

        Oof. It's so... Yeah. [audience clapping] It's so powerful for me to hear that from you because I think we're so good at saying, "Oh God, the last three years were just a waste of time, but now I've figured it out."

    14. GMDr. Gabor Maté33:14

        Yeah.

    15. JSJay Shetty33:15

        You know, "Oh, that job that I was in ten years ago, I just... I should have left it earlier." You know, that relationship, we're so good at berating, as you said, and just saying,

12. 33:23 – 35:08

    Your Healing Is Helping Your Children

    1. JSJay Shetty33:23

       "Oh, that was a waste of time." And it's almost like, well, no, no, no.

    2. GMDr. Gabor Maté33:26

       Yeah.

    3. JSJay Shetty33:27

       It wasn't ideal. It wasn't health-

    4. GMDr. Gabor Maté33:29

       Yeah.

    5. JSJay Shetty33:29

       It, it wasn't easy. It wasn't comfortable. It wasn't nice. But it's aided you. It's helped you. It's served you. And you're so right that-

    6. GMDr. Gabor Maté33:38

       Well, you know what? The, the, the great, uh, German philosopher Nietzsche, he said once that we... I'm paraphrasing him, but he said, "We talk about these dead ends that we went down." He said, "There are no the dead-- there are no dead ends. We just found out that that wasn't the way to go."

    7. JSJay Shetty33:55

       [laughs]

    8. GMDr. Gabor Maté33:56

       So we didn't waste any time. Thomas Edison said, he was once asked, "What did it, what did it feel like to have failed one thousand nine hundred and ninety-nine times to build a light bulb until you finally got it?" And he said, "I didn't fail one thousand and nine hundred and ninety-nine times to build a light bulb. I found out that there was one thousand nine hundred and ninety-nine ways not to build a light bulb."

    9. JSJay Shetty34:17

       [laughs]

    10. GMDr. Gabor Maté34:18

        And so much for our dead ends and our mistakes and all these things that, you know, we had to do it to find out, to find out our reality. That's all.

    11. JSJay Shetty34:27

        Yeah. I wanted to give you all an opportunity this evening to ask questions to Dr. Gabor Maté as we have him here for the last few moments. If you would like to ask a question, I'm gonna come out into the audience and hand you a mic. So raise your hands, uh, and I'm gonna come and find you. So, uh, yeah, keep, keep them raised so I can see you.

    12. SPSpeaker34:49

        Even as an adult, in my experience of working with many different people in marketing and business, and when you say no to someone right away, whether you have a reason to, people abruptly shut down. They don't hear what comes after the no. So what I've been doing with my children, I'm also a

13. 35:08 – 36:53

    Trusting the Wisdom Already Inside You

    1. SPSpeaker35:08

       school counselor, so I talk about diplomatically saying no. Saying, like, just that pause moment for you to share your no without saying no right away. What are your thoughts on that?

    2. GMDr. Gabor Maté35:22

       Well, Eckhart Tolle, who's another Vancouver-based, um, teacher, um, internationally very well known, I'm sure very well known to this audience, uh, he talks about, um, a high-quality no. So there is, um, th- that's kind of an automatic, resentful, um, reactive no, which doesn't get across. It just creates more resistance. But there's a high-quality no, where you're really honoring yourself, and you're not making the other person wrong. You're just saying, "No, that does not work for me, and I will not do that. And if you can't accept that, it's not my problem." I don't know if that answers your question, but that's what comes up for me.

    3. JSJay Shetty36:15

       Thank you so much. Thank you for your question. [audience clapping]

    4. GMDr. Gabor Maté36:23

       And by the way, I, I, I thought I heard you say that you had cancer at some point. Well, in my view-Not that's one of your body's way of saying no is through illness, you know, and I've seen that all the time.

    5. SPSpeaker36:35

       So my question is, um, as an indigenous person who's, who's had family that have went to residential school, as I get more serious, my partner, we're talking about children. How do I know if I'm healed enough to not pass on

14. 36:53 – 40:11

    Your Coping Mechanisms Aren’t Failures

    1. SPSpeaker36:53

       that trauma?

    2. GMDr. Gabor Maté36:55

       Well, some friends of mine, um, who made a film about my work called The Wisdom of Trauma, are just releasing a film this month. It's called The Eternal Song, and it's about indigenous wisdom around the world. And what they-- and, and they, they came to Paraguay, they came to Northern British Columbia, Africa, South America, Australia, and New Zealand. They spoke everywhere to indigenous people. And The Eternal Song, the universal message everywhere is about the importance of learning from the heart and unity with nature, unity with the whole world. And when I speak in indigenous communities here in Canada, what I stress is that your own traditions that they tried to, they tried to kill in you. And, you know, one Canadian politician said about the residential schools that the intention is to drive the Indian out of the Indian. So when you ask me how to not to pass it on to your kids, I say, first of all, as I said before, working on your own trauma, but also as much as possible connect with that deep wisdom in your own traditions that would be so beneficial not just for your people, but for the whole society. And I think it's one of the tragedies of modern civilization. I just did a speaking tour in Australia. In Australia, there've been indigenous people for sixty thousand years, a continuous culture for sixty thousand years. Canada is not two hundred years old yet. Do you think in sixty thousand years they might have learnt a few things? Do you think in sixty thousand years they over there or your people here might have learnt a few things that would be worthwhile for the rest of us to learn? So what I'm saying respectfully in response to your question is deal with your traumas, work them through, but also go back to your own wisdom because there's so much there that is healing. The unity, the chanting, the drumming, the dancing, the, the, um, the, uh, sun dancing, the cedar brushing, the, um, what do you call it? The, the smoke that, that, that you-- certain plant, you know. The, the, um, the sweat lodges. There's so much there. So combine modern trauma work with your own traditions, and I think you'll have the perfect brew. That's my best advice to you. [audience clapping] Thank you.

    3. SPSpeaker39:53

       So I'm just wondering how, relating actually to your previous conversation, how does one balances the desire to self-improve and self-acceptance?

    4. GMDr. Gabor Maté40:06

       You see some kind of a contradiction between what you call self-improvement and self-acceptance? Can

15. 40:11 – 41:45

    Turning Past Mistakes Into Lessons

    1. GMDr. Gabor Maté40:11

       you say-- tell me a bit more about that. What is the contradiction that you're perceiving there?

    2. SPSpeaker40:17

       The way I see it is for you to want to improve in the first place, you might see maybe yourself, uh, as not enough in some situation or facets.

    3. GMDr. Gabor Maté40:30

       And that's true. If you're working on self-improvement, you're, you're making some kind of an accusation against yourself. But how about if you just put the two together as, how can I reach my full potential? And ask yourself that question, then there's no contradiction. How can I reach my full potential? And what is keeping me from my full potential? There's no accusation in that. There's no self-judgment in that. There's no self-rejection in that. It just says, how can I reach my full potential? And that is a lifelong process, but it's a beautiful one, and there's no contradiction in it. I hope that answers your question.

    4. SPSpeaker41:13

       It did.

    5. GMDr. Gabor Maté41:13

       Thank you.

    6. SPSpeaker41:13

       Thank you so much. [audience clapping]

    7. SPSpeaker41:25

       Um, hi. [chuckles] Um, I've been on a similar journey kind of as Jay Shetty. Um, I, I grew into wanting to help people. Um, since a really young age, I've always wanted to just be there for my friends, for my family. And I think one of the things that I've been,

16. 41:45 – 47:54

    Balancing Self-Improvement and Self-Acceptance

    1. SPSpeaker41:45

       um, that have limited me a bit is just feeling too young to help people, to give guidance or to, you know, just... And yeah. And I recently started a YouTube channel, and like I was saying, um, I feel like there's just a lot of things for me to still learn, and I feel sometimes too young to be spreading out whatever it is that I know. And like what we were talking about earlier, like feeling like I'm gonna be judged or, or be looked at as like, "What do you know?" You know? But, um, I'm twenty-two years old, so I do feel really, [chuckles] really young still, and [chuckles] yeah. And so I guess just my question would be how do I, how do I-I guess tap into that wisdom that I have without feeling like it's not enough?

    2. GMDr. Gabor Maté42:34

       What I heard you say is that you feel that you're too young, and y-you have a fear that other people will judge you as too immature, as just, um, not ready to make a contribution. That's what I heard you say. Okay? Now, um, I can think of lots of people at age twenty-two who were recognized geniuses by the time they were twenty-two, and Mozart was one of them, you know? Um, he was composing stuff when he was eleven years old. You know? So that age has got nothing to do with it. That's the first point. Second point is when you say, "I feel I'm too young," that's not a feeling. Feelings are I'm tired, I'm hungry, I'm sad, I'm angry. Those are feelings. I am too young is not a feeling. It's a belief. Okay, can you see the distinction? Okay. If a friend of yours... Like at age twenty-two, I was at university, and I was writing columns for the student newspaper. Would you have come to see-- Would you have come to me and say, "Gabor, you're just twenty-two. You're too young to write anything"? Would you have said that to me? How come you wouldn't have said that? [laughing]

    3. SPSpeaker44:01

       Um, I think... Well, one of the-- I think one of the things that I, I see is that, like we were talking about earlier too, I-

    4. GMDr. Gabor Maté44:10

       Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

    5. SPSpeaker44:11

       [laughing]

    6. GMDr. Gabor Maté44:12

       I-I'm just asking a simple question.

    7. SPSpeaker44:14

       Okay. [laughing]

    8. GMDr. Gabor Maté44:15

       You're twenty-two, and you're saying to yourself, "I'm too young." But you would not said that to me at age twenty-two. I didn't have YouTube. There wasn't YouTube then, but there was a newspaper that I wrote for. [laughing] Why would you have not said to me, "Gabor, you're too young to do this"? How come?

    9. SPSpeaker44:37

       Because you're not me.

    10. GMDr. Gabor Maté44:38

        Oh, so there's different rules for you and me, is that right?

    11. SPSpeaker44:42

        No, but I think I would just-

    12. GMDr. Gabor Maté44:45

        Here's wha-

    13. SPSpeaker44:45

        ... automatically think that you, you're good.

    14. GMDr. Gabor Maté44:48

        Well, here's what I'm thinking. Are you willing to apply the same rules to both of us?

    15. SPSpeaker44:53

        Yeah, I am.

    16. GMDr. Gabor Maté44:54

        Then just apply the same rule to yourself as your-- And as a matter of fact, even if a friend of yours who is your age said, "Hey, I got this idea of a YouTube channel, and I'm gonna make a contribution and express myself, and you know." Would you say to them, "Hey, you're too young"?

    17. SPSpeaker45:09

        No, [laughs] no.

    18. GMDr. Gabor Maté45:10

        Okay. So again, notice what I referred to before as the lack of self-compassion, and just notice it. Now, don't judge yourself for lacking self-compassion. Just notice it and, and then make an effort to treat yourself the way that you treat me or anybody else, and you'll be just fine. Now, you know what? People may judge you. That's totally true. That may true-- That may be true. So what? What's the headline? Human being is judged as other human being. [laughing] People judge me all the time.

    19. SPSpeaker45:50

        [laughs] Yeah.

    20. GMDr. Gabor Maté45:51

        I mean, just go to the YouTube channels where I got, you know, all this stuff of mine and lots of wonderful comments, but some people say, uh, "This guy bores me to death." [laughing] Or, and, and, and one of them, actually, I, I love this one today. It was on a political issue that obviously this person didn't agree with me, but they said, "Gabor obviously has dementia." [laughing] Okay? So what? Okay? [clapping]

    21. SPSpeaker46:22

        Thank you so much. [clapping]

    22. JSJay Shetty46:23

        Hello there. Uh, Gabor, you have been such a joy and such a treat to have my first ever live interview for the podcast that we've ever done, to do it in Vancouver-

    23. GMDr. Gabor Maté46:45

        Yeah

    24. JSJay Shetty46:45

        ... to do it with you, someone that I genuinely learn so much from every time you speak, every time you share, someone that I'm so grateful to call a friend. Uh, we've meditated together. We've had plenty of conversations together.

    25. GMDr. Gabor Maté46:58

        Yeah.

    26. JSJay Shetty46:58

        And I wanna ask you one last question before I-

    27. GMDr. Gabor Maté47:02

        But before you do-

    28. JSJay Shetty47:03

        Oh

    29. GMDr. Gabor Maté47:03

        ... let me just also say that it's, uh, a real honor and a pleasure for me to be invited by you to speak with your audience and to be the first one on this tour to, to be a guinea pig for you.

    30. JSJay Shetty47:14

        [laughing] [clapping] [cheering] We've, we've all been guinea pigs tonight.
17. 47:54 – 48:42

    The Question That Can Change Your Life

    1. JSJay Shetty47:54

       and if they came alone, something they can start a conversation tomorrow-

    2. GMDr. Gabor Maté47:58

       Yeah

    3. JSJay Shetty47:58

       ... at work, at home, what would you encourage them to, to-

    4. GMDr. Gabor Maté48:01

       Well, I'll tell you what comes up right away for me is ask yourself this question: What is true for me? What is true for me? Ask yourself that question and keep asking yourself that question. Keep asking that all your life. That's what comes up.

    5. JSJay Shetty48:16

       What is true for me?

    6. GMDr. Gabor Maté48:17

       Yeah.

    7. JSJay Shetty48:18

       I love it. Dr. Gabor Maté, everyone. [clapping]

    8. GMDr. Gabor Maté48:20

       Thank you.

    9. JSJay Shetty48:22

       If you loved this episode, you'll love my interview with Dr. Gabor Maté on understanding your trauma and how to heal emotional wounds to start moving on from the past.

    10. GMDr. Gabor Maté48:33

        A therapist once said to me that if your parents didn't know how to hold you, you developed a mind you hold yourself with. It's afraid of pain, and it's designed to keep you from experiencing pain.

Episode duration: 48:42