EMMA WATSON EXCLUSIVE: The TRUTH I Have Never Shared Before..

1. 0:00 – 2:35

   Intro

   1. EWEmma Watson0:00

      I realized have the career and the life that looks like the dream, but are you really happy, Emma? Are you really healthy? And have to admit to myself that I wasn't was one of the scariest things I've ever had to do.

   2. JSJay Shetty0:16

      The number one health and wellness podcast. Jay Shetty. Jay Shetty. The one, the only Jay Shetty. [laughs] Emma, welcome to On Purpose. I'm so grateful that you're here, and, you know, you've kind of been out of the public eye for a while now-

   3. EWEmma Watson0:32

      Yes

   4. JSJay Shetty0:32

      ... and don't do that many interviews. I've watched the interviews you have done even before we planned to do this, and I wanted to ask from an intention point almost-

   5. EWEmma Watson0:43

      Mm

   6. JSJay Shetty0:43

      ... why now? Why today? Why here?

   7. EWEmma Watson0:45

      I think I mentioned, but I read your book, um, because my, my dear friend, Noopa, told me that I should, and every now and again, I would see you come up on my feed. I don't spend much time on Instagram anymore, but when I did, I just felt like you were having a different conversation. And it's not that I have stopped doing interviews because I want to hide myself away. I think it's because I wanted to be able to have a certain type of conversation that I didn't seem able to find a space for. And so I called Noopa and said, "I think I just reached out to Jay to see if he would let me come and do his podcast on Monday." And she was like, "I've been waiting for this. I wondered when you would do this." I was like, "How did you know I was gonna do it?"

   8. JSJay Shetty1:32

      [laughs]

   9. EWEmma Watson1:33

      She's like, "I don't know. I just felt like this was coming." So, um, here I am. And you said yes, and the timing worked.

   10. JSJay Shetty1:40

       Yeah.

   11. EWEmma Watson1:40

       I, I contacted you last week, and it's Monday, and so...

   12. JSJay Shetty1:44

       Well, from, well, that means the world to me, truly. I'm so grateful for that because the few interactions and conversations we've had since then, and you've sent me a few things to read over-

   13. EWEmma Watson1:53

       Mm

   14. JSJay Shetty1:53

       ... whether it's journals or reflections-

   15. EWEmma Watson1:55

       Mm

   16. JSJay Shetty1:55

       ... and honestly, I, I think I just said it to you a few moments ago, and I mean it, even if we weren't having this conversation today, and you'd just sent me those things to reflect on myself, that would've already been a gift. And so the opportunity to actually sit with you and to talk about these things and have the space to have a conversation that you feel you haven't had before means the world to me, and so thank you for trusting me, and-

   17. EWEmma Watson2:17

       [laughs]

   18. JSJay Shetty2:17

       ... it's, I, I look forward to getting to know you so much better. But let's, let's dive in. I wanna, I wanted to start by asking you, like, you said something there that was really beautiful because you stopped for a moment, then you said, "It's easier to be honest."

   19. EWEmma Watson2:28

       Mm.

   20. JSJay Shetty2:29

       And, and I was like wanting to understand what that, what that meant to you and how that feels.

   21. EWEmma Watson2:33

       Such a big part of my job

2. 2:35 – 5:50

   Choosing to Show Up for Yourself

   1. EWEmma Watson2:35

      was trying to think three steps ahead of how everything that I would say would be, could negatively impact the film that I was trying to do justice to and do service to and make sure that people understood what the director had intended, and I felt this enormous sense of responsibility all the time to honor [laughs] so many people's work that put together something like a film or, you know, even to some degree, I just did a fragrance with Prada, and it's the first perfume bottle that you can, like, refill, and I don't know. I, I, [laughs] I take my job seriously, I guess. And so interviews to me felt a lot like chess, and it required so much energy, and I think what's nice about the way that I'm showing up today is I'm just showing up for myself, and for once, I actually, I'm not here to, um, speak on behalf of anyone else or anything else other than myself, which is unusual.

   2. JSJay Shetty3:36

      Yeah. I think, I think it's such a fascinating thing because as a viewer, even before I got closer-

   3. EWEmma Watson3:42

      Mm

   4. JSJay Shetty3:42

      ... to the industry, as a viewer, everything's made to feel, in traditional media, so easy, and it has levity, and it feels like you're getting someone's real personality.

   5. EWEmma Watson3:53

      Yeah. [laughs]

   6. JSJay Shetty3:54

      And, and then you realize that you are. There, there's definitely reality to it-

   7. EWEmma Watson3:58

      Yes

   8. JSJay Shetty3:58

      ... and truth to it.

   9. EWEmma Watson3:59

      Yes.

   10. JSJay Shetty3:59

       But at the same time, naturally, it's work.

   11. EWEmma Watson4:02

       Yeah.

   12. JSJay Shetty4:02

       And, and there's a job, and I think it's not as ... And you can shed more light on this. I don't think it's always as insidious or as dark as people may think it is, but there's, there's just, it's a job, and it's work. And there's results that matter.

   13. EWEmma Watson4:16

       Yeah. [laughs]

   14. JSJay Shetty4:16

       Right?

   15. EWEmma Watson4:17

       100%. And I think within those contexts, everyone is trying to be as authentic as they humanly can be, but there's something about, I think it's what I mentioned, um, earlier about why I felt like this was a good space, is there's something inherently written into certain types of forms of media, which is that it, it doesn't matter what intention or, or how authentically you want to show up, the form, like, somehow doesn't allow it-

   16. JSJay Shetty4:44

       Yeah

   17. EWEmma Watson4:44

       ... to some degree. And I've become obsessed with this recently. I've been looking at, okay, what is written into the form of something like Twitter or Instagram or TikTok or a podcast versus, or a photograph versus a film versus a piece of writing? And it's really interesting to see what a different medium or different form allows or doesn't allow and, or, like, actually creates or encourages. I've never done a podcast before, but I love ... I think what I love about it is the, is the intimacy of it. It's like, I feel like people listen to podcasts when they're like, I certainly do anyway, like, first thing in the morning when I'm taking my shower or I'm going on my walk or I'm making my breakfast. It's really, like, personal, intimate time.

   18. JSJay Shetty5:25

       Mm-hmm.

   19. EWEmma Watson5:25

       And I think the long form version of these kinds of conversations, uh, allows for such a different kind of discussion that I didn't think was possible before.

   20. JSJay Shetty5:34

       Yeah, absolutely. I couldn't agree with you more. I was gonna ask you, actually, because I want everyone to get up to date with where you are now. Like, what does, what does your day-to-day life-

   21. EWEmma Watson5:40

       [laughs]

   22. JSJay Shetty5:41

       ... look like? You just said, like-

   23. EWEmma Watson5:42

       Yeah

   24. JSJay Shetty5:42

       ... "I wake up and I shower and I go on a walk."

   25. EWEmma Watson5:43

       [laughs]

   26. JSJay Shetty5:43

       Like, what does your day-to-day life look like right now, and what, what makes, what's it made of, and what are the things that you love

3. 5:50 – 9:09

   Designing a Life You Truly Enjoy

   1. JSJay Shetty5:50

      and look forward to?

   2. EWEmma Watson5:51

      I recently started riding a bicycle, and yes, I started [laughs] riding a bicycle before my driving ban, but now it's particularly fortuitous [laughs] that I also ride a bicycle, um, for that reason. But-

   3. JSJay Shetty6:04

      I love how that was mainstream news.

   4. EWEmma Watson6:06

      Yeah. [laughs] I was getting phone call- like, it's on the BBC, it's on international worldwide news. I was like, "My shame-

   5. JSJay Shetty6:14

      [laughs]

   6. EWEmma Watson6:15

      ... it's, it is everywhere." [laughs] This is... I mean, what did I say? It's m- I don't know. I think in a funny way, what the sweetest result of it was getting so many messages from being- p- people being like, "Happened to me, too."

   7. JSJay Shetty6:27

      [laughs]

   8. EWEmma Watson6:27

      "I feel you. This is awful. It sucks." Um, which was kind of nice in a way. But, um-

   9. JSJay Shetty6:33

      You want a lift?

   10. EWEmma Watson6:34

       Yeah. [laughs]

   11. JSJay Shetty6:34

       [laughs]

   12. EWEmma Watson6:34

       Totally. "Do you need a lift?"

   13. JSJay Shetty6:36

       Yeah.

   14. EWEmma Watson6:36

       It's like, "Actually, yes." But I think, again, it's funny, like, I, I went from when you work on movies, I don't know if people know this, but, like, they literally will not insure you to drive yourself to work. I've asked-

   15. JSJay Shetty6:47

       Oh, interesting

   16. EWEmma Watson6:47

       ... so many times.

   17. JSJay Shetty6:48

       You have to be driven.

   18. EWEmma Watson6:49

       You have to be driven.

   19. JSJay Shetty6:50

       Yeah.

   20. EWEmma Watson6:50

       It's, like, not a choice, and especially because they need you there f- you know, down to the minute, basically, depending on what they have going on. And so I went from basically only driving myself on weekends or during holiday to then when I became a student, driving myself all the time, and yeah, I did not have the experience or skills, uh, clearly, which I now will and, and, and do. But I think, again, this was one of these, like, awkward transitions I made from kind of living this, like, very, very structured life to living a life where I was like, "Okay, I guess I'm gonna get myself to this place-

   21. JSJay Shetty7:26

       [laughs]

   22. EWEmma Watson7:26

       ... [laughs] and I'm gonna, like, do this thing that I've basically not done since I was 10 years old." So it's been a discovery and a journey that's been, um, I, yeah, I guess humbling because on a movie set I'm able to do all of these, like, extremely complex things, stunt, sing, dance, like, do this thing, do that, whatever, and I'm like, "Yep, don't worry about it, guys. No worries. I've got you." And then I get home, and I'm like, "Okay, Emma, you seem unable to remember keys."

   23. JSJay Shetty7:55

       [laughs]

   24. EWEmma Watson7:55

       "You're unable to, like, keep yourself at 30 miles an hour in a, in a, in a 30 mile speed limit. Like, you, you don't seem able to do some pretty, like, basic life things." And it, it was definitely kind of... Yeah, I had days where I just wanted to turn around to people and be like, "I used to be good at things, okay?

   25. JSJay Shetty8:14

       [laughs]

   26. EWEmma Watson8:14

       I used to be really good at things, and I know it doesn't look like that right now, but, um, I, I used to, I, I can do things normally." Um, so yeah, it's been, uh, it's been humbling for sure. [laughs]

   27. JSJay Shetty8:27

       I feel, I feel like all of us, I feel like all of us can relate to that, though, because it-

   28. EWEmma Watson8:31

       Really?

   29. JSJay Shetty8:31

       Because doesn't everyone forget their keys, their wallet, doesn't know where things are? Like, these are, these are, like, ser- and by the way, I was, I think I was three points away from losing my license before I moved to the States.

   30. EWEmma Watson8:41

       Thank you for that confession.
4. 9:09 – 11:06

   Admitting When Life is Challenging

   1. EWEmma Watson9:09

      like, very endearing and, like, really, really appreciate it. But no, I think, you know, I think something I've been realizing is we, most of us live in a state of, like, I'm just trying to kind of figure it out and keep it together, and the only thing that is different between us is w- people's willingness to be honest about that.

   2. JSJay Shetty9:35

      Mm.

   3. EWEmma Watson9:35

      The degree to which they can admit to, "Actually, I'm just, like, scrabbling around-

   4. JSJay Shetty9:39

      [laughs]

   5. EWEmma Watson9:39

      ... trying to keep the pieces together," versus, um, "Oh, yeah, no, everything's amazing and everything's incredible, and I'm having the best day ever, and aren't you?"

   6. JSJay Shetty9:49

      [laughs]

   7. EWEmma Watson9:49

      And [laughs] you know? So I do love the people who, who are just willing to be like, "Yeah, it's, uh, [laughs] it's not going so well today." I'm like, "Great. Amazing. What a good starting point." Like, I don't know, failure as a starting point feels like, I feel like attempting things is so compelling.

   8. JSJay Shetty10:09

      Mm.

   9. EWEmma Watson10:09

      And of course success is wonderful, but I love to see people who are like, "I'm really bad at this, but I'm gonna try." [laughs]

   10. JSJay Shetty10:18

       [laughs]

   11. EWEmma Watson10:18

       Like, I love you. [laughs] That's everything to me, everything.

   12. JSJay Shetty10:20

       And that, that seems to be becoming harder and harder now.

   13. EWEmma Watson10:23

       Mm.

   14. JSJay Shetty10:23

       Like, that desire to attempt something that you-

   15. EWEmma Watson10:26

       Yes

   16. JSJay Shetty10:26

       ... might not be good at-

   17. EWEmma Watson10:27

       Yes

   18. JSJay Shetty10:27

       ... because it's exposed-

   19. EWEmma Watson10:28

       Yes

   20. JSJay Shetty10:28

       ... or because everyone will see it or because everyone will hear about it.

   21. EWEmma Watson10:31

       Yeah.

   22. JSJay Shetty10:32

       Talking about attempting things, I mean, you're currently studying-

   23. EWEmma Watson10:34

       Yes

   24. JSJay Shetty10:34

       ... right? You're learning.

   25. EWEmma Watson10:35

       Yes. Yes. Well, two things I wanna say there is I think in a way I was sort of, I mean, I'm someone who's always cared about vulnerability and authenticity, but I think I was also forced into it to a degree that, that maybe even I wasn't ready for in that, like, I just started so young that, like, I had to learn in public. I had to make mistakes in public and say, "Oh, okay, now I've learned this." And I had to be willing to go back and

5. 11:06 – 17:27

   Rediscovering the Joy of Learning

   1. EWEmma Watson11:06

      be like, "Hmm," like, [laughs] "there were some gaps here, um, and here's what I know now." And I think people's, I agree with you, I think it's becoming increasingly difficult to learn in public, and continuing to learn, I mean, I think that's one of the reasons why I, I have gone back to school and why I continue to do it is because I want to make sure that I have things to say that are worth saying.

   2. JSJay Shetty11:30

      Mm.

   3. EWEmma Watson11:30

      And I think you can only do that if you take a minute sometimes and listen to some people who aren't you. [laughs]

   4. JSJay Shetty11:39

      [laughs]

   5. EWEmma Watson11:39

      You know? And, like, not just the sound of my own, my own wonderful voice. Um, so yeah, it's been, it's been great. And I think also I needed to, I wanted to be inspired. I think being around, my favorite piece has been being around young people who still believe that the world is malleable and things are changeable and that, like, anything can be done-

   6. JSJay Shetty12:02

      Mm

   7. EWEmma Watson12:02

      ... is, um, such important energy. There's so much dystopian fiction at the moment and dystopian-

   8. JSJay Shetty12:10

      So much

   9. EWEmma Watson12:10

      ... movies and-

   10. JSJay Shetty12:11

       It's all dark.

   11. EWEmma Watson12:11

       It's so dark. [laughs]

   12. JSJay Shetty12:12

       [laughs]

   13. EWEmma Watson12:13

       And I'm just like-

   14. JSJay Shetty12:14

       Yeah

   15. EWEmma Watson12:14

       ... what happened to thinking about the utopia? What happened to, like, planning for the best case scenario? Like, where, where did we lose-Yeah, vision, excitement, imagination, possibility. So I think it's been, um ... Yeah, it's been wonderful to be around young people, and just to sit there and listen-

   16. JSJay Shetty12:35

       Yeah

   17. EWEmma Watson12:36

       ... frankly.

   18. JSJay Shetty12:36

       Yeah.

   19. EWEmma Watson12:36

       Do you ever ... I mean, you clearly read so much. Do you have to take yourself away to do it in order to be able to do it? Do you have to cordon off time? Like, how are you still managing to study and learn? 'Cause that seems like it's important to you.

   20. JSJay Shetty12:49

       Yeah. You, you reminded me, as you were talking, of one of my spiritual teachers, my monk teacher, who always said to me, "If you wanna move three steps forward, you have to go three steps deep first."

   21. EWEmma Watson12:58

       Whoa.

   22. JSJay Shetty12:59

       And what I've found often in my life is I'm trying to go four steps forward-

   23. EWEmma Watson13:03

       Mm-hmm

   24. JSJay Shetty13:03

       ... and I haven't yet gone four steps deep. And so it's almost like, I mean, this is probably a, a terrible analogy, but maybe ... I'm thinking of the movie The Substance. I don't know if you watched it.

   25. EWEmma Watson13:12

       [laughs] I didn't see it.

   26. JSJay Shetty13:13

       You watched ... Okay, fine. Okay, terrible. Let's, let's move on.

   27. EWEmma Watson13:16

       No, no, no. [laughs]

   28. JSJay Shetty13:16

       No, no, no. Let's forget about it.

   29. EWEmma Watson13:17

       Okay.

   30. JSJay Shetty13:17

       But, but it's that idea of, like, every extra step you take-
6. 17:27 – 21:13

   Why Discomfort Can Be Your Greatest Teacher

   1. EWEmma Watson17:27

      Shelf.

   2. JSJay Shetty17:27

      Mm.

   3. EWEmma Watson17:28

      And, um, so that was part of those conversations. But it was a good moment for me to learn that feeling uncomfortable sometimes is good.

   4. JSJay Shetty17:39

      Mm.

   5. EWEmma Watson17:39

      I think we have an alarm system that goes off, which is like, "I'm uncomfortable. This feels uncomfortable, so something bad must be happening, and I must leave as soon as possible."

   6. JSJay Shetty17:49

      [laughs]

   7. EWEmma Watson17:49

      And actually, I think that was when I started to learn, oh, actually, me being uncomfortable in a space, um, might be a good sign, 'cause it might mean I'm about to learn something.

   8. JSJay Shetty17:58

      Mm.

   9. EWEmma Watson17:59

      And I wanna attribute this, that was Mara I Larasi who, who helped me understand that, and, uh, was a very, very valuable teaching. So now when I'm in a space and listening to things and I feel uncomfortable, I don't think it means I need to bolt or something bad's happening.

   10. JSJay Shetty18:16

       Yeah.

   11. EWEmma Watson18:16

       It's maybe something really good is about to happen. Yeah.

   12. JSJay Shetty18:21

       Yeah. And I feel like that goes back to what we started with, this idea of attempting means discomfort.

   13. EWEmma Watson18:26

       Yeah, it does. [laughs]

   14. JSJay Shetty18:27

       And, and attempting means incomplete.

   15. EWEmma Watson18:28

       Necessary, yeah.

   16. JSJay Shetty18:29

       And, uh, and I love, I love that point you made that-Actually, whenever we're sharing anything, it's not that it's not true, it's that it's not complete

   17. EWEmma Watson18:36

       Yes

   18. JSJay Shetty18:37

       And mostly when we see people say things or-

   19. EWEmma Watson18:40

       Mm

   20. JSJay Shetty18:40

       ... share ideas, it's very rare to have anyone ever share a complete-

   21. EWEmma Watson18:45

       Mm

   22. JSJay Shetty18:45

       ... idea, because that means they would've had to think about it from every single vantage point-

   23. EWEmma Watson18:49

       Yeah

   24. JSJay Shetty18:50

       ... which is not even humanly possible.

   25. EWEmma Watson18:53

       It's not possible. It's not possible, and I think Adrienne Maree Brown, I, I don't know if you've ever had... She's, ugh, she wrote an amazing book, which, um, is one of her more recent ones, which is called Loving Corrections, and she speaks to kind of exactly this, which is, [laughs] there's kind of this, like, ire that we see online when people don't attribute something perfectly to someone else, or they're missing something, and it's like, isn't the whole point of this that we're in conversation? And if it's the right person, you can see that a good intention is there-

   26. JSJay Shetty19:32

       Mm

   27. EWEmma Watson19:32

       ... then maybe we can kind of [laughs] do it in a way that doesn't need to be... I mean, obviously there's, there's important time and place for holding people accountable.

   28. JSJay Shetty19:43

       Mm-hmm.

   29. EWEmma Watson19:44

       Um, but maybe, I don't know, attributing, like, great, we're all gonna help each other kind of pad this out-

   30. JSJay Shetty19:51

       Yeah. [laughs]
7. 21:13 – 23:10

   Taking Accountability With Grace and Courage

   1. EWEmma Watson21:13

      and you're like, "Is this making a difference?" Like, "Am I getting through to any... Is transformative justice real?"

   2. JSJay Shetty21:18

      [laughs]

   3. EWEmma Watson21:18

      Like, "Is this, is this labor worth it?" But I think I don't have a perfect answer. I, I-

   4. JSJay Shetty21:25

      Yeah

   5. EWEmma Watson21:25

      ... I'm not, I haven't lived through enough of it to know. I guess I've just reached a point where it's like I'd rather, I'd rather die trying. I'd rather die having tried. And maybe some small piece of it, even if it's not now, if, even if it's at some future point, like something I've said just, like, goes, "Oh, something at the back of my mind here," someone says something to me, then, you know, maybe it's worth it.

   6. JSJay Shetty21:49

      Yeah.

   7. EWEmma Watson21:50

      I will never believe that one negates the other, and that my experience of that person I don't get to keep and cherish. I, to come back to our earlier thing, like, I just don't think these things are either/or. I hope people who don't agree with my opinion [laughs] will love me, and I hope I can keep loving people who I don't necessarily share the same opinion with. And I think that's a very, very important way for me that I need to be able to move through life. I really do believe in having conversations, and I guess where I've landed is it's not so much what we say or what we believe, but very often how we say it.

   8. JSJay Shetty22:43

      When you think about little Emma-

   9. EWEmma Watson22:45

      Yes

   10. JSJay Shetty22:45

       ... like, what was a childhood memory that you have, a core memory that you have that you feel has defined who you are today somewhat?

   11. EWEmma Watson22:53

       I think I won't share the specific memory 'cause it's so personal, but I think I've always felt other people's pain very intensely.

   12. JSJay Shetty23:02

       Mm.

   13. EWEmma Watson23:03

       Um, until maybe recently, I

8. 23:10 – 26:16

   Sensitivity as Your Superpower

   1. EWEmma Watson23:10

      did not know how to give myself grace and navigate seeing my sensitivity as a strength and knowing that it's, like, my gift, but it also means I have to care for it in specific ways. When you are given gifts, there's often... You kind of have to compensate in some other ways. And in the same way that, like, my position in life and fame has given me this extraordinary power, it's also given me a lot of responsibility, and these things often have these kind of, I don't know when or why it started, but I think I've always, whoever it was that was suffering in the room, I was always the most aware of them.

   2. JSJay Shetty24:05

      Mm.

   3. EWEmma Watson24:05

      And I think that has formed a lot of why I could act. It was almost like I was kind of sucking all of this in, and then I needed to let it out somewhere or unleash it somewhere. And I remember when my parents saw me on stage for the first time, afterwards they were just like, "Where did that come from? You don't have any of these experiences." I recorded a song for my 12th birthday. My mom bought me a day in a recording studio.And I think Natalie Imbruglia's Torn, like I've had my heart broken 50,000 times, you know, like I've been married and divorced and whatever, and I'm 12 and I've never had a boyfriend, and I don't know anything about love

   4. JSJay Shetty24:49

      Have you ever thought about where it came from or?

   5. EWEmma Watson24:52

      I would imagine, I, I can't say for sure, I would imagine that my family structure has not been a traditional family structure, and that feeling of knowing that I'm from a situation where we just don't quite fit the kind of nuclear family mold, and I think coming back from France and trying to figure out how to sort of integrate and being the eldest and having my younger brother and having my mom, and like trying to sort of be some sort of glue or holding together for everyone's feelings.

   6. JSJay Shetty25:35

      Mm.

   7. EWEmma Watson25:35

      I'm pretty sure that's probably where it-

   8. JSJay Shetty25:37

      Mm

   9. EWEmma Watson25:38

      ... that's where it started.

   10. JSJay Shetty25:39

       Yeah.

   11. EWEmma Watson25:40

       Um, and then I guess just being aware of other people who might feel the way I did, which is like, "Who else in here doesn't feel like they quite fit?"

   12. JSJay Shetty25:51

       I've always found that it took me a while to recognize, but when I did, it was so helpful that a lot of what I do today is because I mediated my parents' marriage growing up.

   13. EWEmma Watson26:01

       Mm. Yeah.

   14. JSJay Shetty26:01

       And so I developed all these skills of listening and empathy and grace-

   15. EWEmma Watson26:05

       Yes

   16. JSJay Shetty26:05

       ... and compassion because I was doing it for two people that I love.

   17. EWEmma Watson26:08

       Yes.

   18. JSJay Shetty26:09

       And I see it as a strength.

   19. EWEmma Watson26:11

       Yes.

   20. JSJay Shetty26:11

       And yes, it comes with, it comes with-

   21. EWEmma Watson26:13

       Things

   22. JSJay Shetty26:13

       ... certain things, for sure.

   23. EWEmma Watson26:14

       Yeah.

   24. JSJay Shetty26:14

       It comes, you're, you're absolutely right.

9. 26:16 – 30:38

   Lessons From a Nontraditional Childhood

   1. JSJay Shetty26:16

      But at the same time, I've always seen it as a strength.

   2. EWEmma Watson26:18

      Yes.

   3. JSJay Shetty26:18

      And it's something that has served me well in my marriage, it served me well in my relationships, and at the same time it has certain-

   4. EWEmma Watson26:27

      [laughs]

   5. JSJay Shetty26:28

      ... consequences that-

   6. EWEmma Watson26:29

      Things

   7. JSJay Shetty26:29

      ... that, that-

   8. EWEmma Watson26:29

      Yeah

   9. JSJay Shetty26:29

      ... make you different or-

   10. EWEmma Watson26:31

       Yes

   11. JSJay Shetty26:31

       ... or make you process things differently. And so-

   12. EWEmma Watson26:33

       Yeah

   13. JSJay Shetty26:33

       ... and I remember one thing you shared with me, that I was reading it, you, you said, "I used to spend my weekdays with Mom and my weekends-

   14. EWEmma Watson26:41

       Mm

   15. JSJay Shetty26:41

       ... with Dad."

   16. EWEmma Watson26:42

       Yeah.

   17. JSJay Shetty26:42

       And you said it almost felt like you were changing costumes sometimes.

   18. EWEmma Watson26:46

       Yes. Yeah.

   19. JSJay Shetty26:47

       And there were like these two lives kind of thing.

   20. EWEmma Watson26:50

       Yes. Yes.

   21. JSJay Shetty26:50

       And, and I feel s- that's so relatable. I feel like so many people can relate to that, whether-

   22. EWEmma Watson26:53

       Mm

   23. JSJay Shetty26:54

       ... whether their family was more traditional or wasn't.

   24. EWEmma Watson26:57

       Yeah.

   25. JSJay Shetty26:57

       I think every child has had this feeling of not fitting in quite and-

   26. EWEmma Watson27:00

       Yes

   27. JSJay Shetty27:00

       ... not knowing which life they're meant to lead.

   28. EWEmma Watson27:02

       Yes.

   29. JSJay Shetty27:02

       And, and that feels like it's kind of-

   30. EWEmma Watson27:04

       Yes
10. 30:38 – 34:16

    Do You Still Need the Spotlight?

    1. JSJay Shetty30:38

       to be. And I think so much of what we do for work, or so much of what we pursue as humans-

    2. EWEmma Watson30:43

       Mm

    3. JSJay Shetty30:43

       ... is based on something we're trying to build, createMaybe escape from maybe to reveal something-

    4. EWEmma Watson30:49

       Mm

    5. JSJay Shetty30:49

       ... and I think we haven't often looked at work that way. Like sometimes we choose a career because we know it will make our parents happy.

    6. EWEmma Watson30:55

       Yes.

    7. JSJay Shetty30:55

       And so we're living a pattern.

    8. EWEmma Watson30:57

       Yeah.

    9. JSJay Shetty30:57

       Or sometimes you choose something because it breaks the pattern that you were growing up in, and it, it's fascinating to me to look at that. And for you, you were acting in school plays since you were a, a young girl.

    10. EWEmma Watson31:08

        Yeah.

    11. JSJay Shetty31:08

        And was acting always something you were going to do, or did it- do you feel like it was this cross-section of what was happening in your personal life that actually made that feel like the direction you would choose?

    12. EWEmma Watson31:19

        I think it's so interesting that you said those words reveal and escape, that, that they're kind of the same thing because I think that it all started with a poem. I did a poetry competition when I was nine called the Daisy Pratt Poetry Competition, and I'm actually naturally quite a shy person. Uh, and so actually for me to stand up in front of people feels like an out-of-body experience. Like there's so much adrenaline coursing through my veins that it does feel like a moment outside of time. And I remember the exhilaration of living the kind of ups and downs of this poem, and maybe because there wasn't space to have conversations or express myself at that time in the way that I needed to, I did it through performance, and I also did it as a way of getting to feel free for a moment of, of what I was ... Like the discomfort of that time of not quite knowing who I was or how to be in the world. And as I've become more healed and whole and, and more comfortable being myself, it's been interesting to ask myself, "Do you still need acting? Do you still need to act?" Like, "Why- what are you doing that for?" And like the, the kind of, it used to feel like almost like a compulsion that I needed to do it, and what's really interesting now is I don't feel quite that kind of urgency of needing to do it. And I wonder if it's because actually I have spaces where I can now take some of those feelings and talk about some of the things I, I don't think I had space to-

    13. JSJay Shetty33:18

        Mm

    14. EWEmma Watson33:18

        ... to voice.

    15. JSJay Shetty33:19

        In, in kind-

    16. EWEmma Watson33:20

        Without doing it [laughs] on camera-

    17. JSJay Shetty33:21

        Yeah [laughs]

    18. EWEmma Watson33:21

        ... in front of thousands of people. Yeah. [laughs]

    19. JSJay Shetty33:24

        Yeah. Which is, which is, which is scary in its own way, right?

    20. EWEmma Watson33:26

        Yeah.

    21. JSJay Shetty33:26

        It's, uh, it's easy to-

    22. EWEmma Watson33:28

        [laughs]

    23. JSJay Shetty33:28

        It's easy to think, "Oh, that makes sense" but then it's like, well, no, it's, it's really challenging-

    24. EWEmma Watson33:33

        Yeah

    25. JSJay Shetty33:33

        ... to do that second part-

    26. EWEmma Watson33:34

        Yeah

    27. JSJay Shetty33:34

        ... even, even if it makes sense rationally or logically. And was, was that what, in, in 2019 when you kinda pulled away-

    28. EWEmma Watson33:42

        Mm

    29. JSJay Shetty33:43

        ... was your reason I want to heal and work on myself, or was it actually I don't feel a compulsion anymore? Like, was that the inflection point of doing some self-work, or was that the inflection point of I need to pause?

    30. EWEmma Watson33:56

        I realized I was drawing on painful stuff in my life that I was actually healing, and I didn't want to keep revisiting in order to do some of the more intense, scarier, sadder things that I had to do. I realized, I remember

11. 34:16 – 41:38

    The Healing Power of Taking a Pause

    1. EWEmma Watson34:16

       by Beth's, um, deathbed, by her, by her graveside when we shot those films, like normally there are like these painful memories that I would use for those moments, and I realized, I was like, "I don't know if this is super great for me, actually, to keep-

    2. JSJay Shetty34:34

       Mm

    3. EWEmma Watson34:34

       ... to keep revisiting these or if I want to use these as my tools." And I don't think that means I'll never come back to acting. I think it just meant I was like, "Hmm. I wonder if there's a different way to do this."

    4. JSJay Shetty34:46

       Mm.

    5. EWEmma Watson34:47

       I think the second thing was, to be really honest, I was coming to those sets with an expectation that I think I had developed on Harry Potter, which was that we were, the people I worked with were going to be my family and that we were going to be lifelong friends. I came to work looking for friendship, and that was a very painful experience for me-

    6. JSJay Shetty35:13

       Mm

    7. EWEmma Watson35:13

       ... outside of Harry Potter and in Hollywood. Like bone-breakingly painful. Um, because most people don't come to those environments looking for friendships. They're looking for, "This is my chance. This is my role. This is what I want out of it. I'm focused. This is my job. This is my career. Like, let's go." And I was not of that mindset, and so I found, I found the rejection really painful.

    8. JSJay Shetty35:47

       The friendship rejection, yeah.

    9. EWEmma Watson35:48

       Yeah. Of like, I re- I was like, I, I think it's so unusual to make a set of films for 12 years. And we were a community. Like, we, we really were. And so I took that as an expectation into my, into my other workplaces, and I just got my, I just got my ass kicked. I really did.

    10. JSJay Shetty36:10

        Was it competition? Was it envy? Was it just hierarchy? Was it-

    11. EWEmma Watson36:14

        I think it was a combination. It was a Molotov cocktail of all of the above. As we mentioned earlier, I'm just not thick-skinned. Maybe I just wasn't built for those kinds of highly competitive environments. It, yeah, it broke me. Yeah. But in a way I'm proud that it did because I guess that means I have something left to break. I have a heart left to break. So it was a hard learning, but I think there's something thatI'm proud of in a way that there were certain things I couldn't withstand. I'd much rather keep my humanity

    12. JSJay Shetty37:08

        I think there might be a tissue around there.

    13. EWEmma Watson37:13

        [laughs]

    14. JSJay Shetty37:13

        If you need it, Emma-

    15. EWEmma Watson37:14

        I'm managing to like-

    16. JSJay Shetty37:15

        There's, I know, you are, yeah

    17. EWEmma Watson37:16

        ... keep the tears inside.

    18. JSJay Shetty37:17

        If you need it, there is a tissue there.

    19. EWEmma Watson37:18

        But that's really kind.

    20. JSJay Shetty37:19

        Yeah, yeah.

    21. EWEmma Watson37:20

        Thank you.

    22. JSJay Shetty37:20

        No, but I really appreciate you saying that, and, and I, I mean, it's so powerful to hear how you've processed it.

    23. EWEmma Watson37:26

        [laughs]

    24. JSJay Shetty37:26

        Like, just what you added there, 'cause when, when I saw your voice change and, and-

    25. EWEmma Watson37:31

        Yeah

    26. JSJay Shetty37:31

        ... just when you were expressing it, and, and it, and it hit me as you said it, and I felt it. And then the way you reflected on it kind of helped that feeling rise really beautifully because what you said is so true, that if you were broken by a frequency of envy and competition and whatever else it was, that's only proof that you were vibrating in a way that didn't want to be pulled down into that. And it's so interesting, though, how when we break to those sorts of emotions and ideas, we feel we're the weak one-

    27. EWEmma Watson38:10

        Yeah

    28. JSJay Shetty38:10

        ... when it's completely the opposite.

    29. EWEmma Watson38:13

        That was, that was the most painful thing, was I thought... I, I beat myself up for years afterwards really, thinking like, punishing myself saying, "You couldn't hack it. You weren't strong enough."

    30. JSJay Shetty38:27

        Mm-hmm. Mm.
12. 41:38 – 44:55

    Living Under Intense Public Pressure

    1. JSJay Shetty41:38

       being surrounded by people who really believe in you and your longevity and your art versus, but that's hard to find.

    2. EWEmma Watson41:44

       It is. It's hard to find, and, you know, I, I, I had a wonderful team. Like, I, I really did. I think it's just, like, understanding that no one at the end of the day is gonna be in the room-

    3. JSJay Shetty42:00

       Mm

    4. EWEmma Watson42:00

       ... like, when you're [laughs] actually doing the thing. You have to carry that moment, and you have to carry that pressure. Also, making films, the hours on them are so demanding that to have your own life alongside that, to have that balance, is almost impossible. It's so all or nothing. It's so all-encompassing, especially if you're in a lead role. Um, you kind of go through these, you know, working six days a week, 14 to 16-hour days, and then you're just kind of dropped off at the end of it, and maybe you'll have a two or three-month gap, and then there's just kind of like nothing.

    5. JSJay Shetty42:38

       Mm.

    6. EWEmma Watson42:39

       And so you're, like, riding this, like, incredible peak of, like, adrenaline and cortisol, and then you just get, like, dropped off the edge, and then you're like, "Okay, wait, now I have to be a functioning human again, and I have to, like, [laughs] figure out how to be a person in the real world." And I think some of those extremesThen force an actor to either decide, "Well, I'm gonna back-to-back it, so I'm gonna basically go from one movie to the next, and that's gonna be my full life." Or you have to navigate these huge impacts on your nervous system that you need a system and a support system to help you navigate, and I think it's why addiction and mental illness in my profession, and in a lot of high-stress, high-profile professions is so commonplace because you're trying to balance out these enormous chemical ups and downs.

    7. JSJay Shetty43:41

       Yeah. Talk, talk to people about why, because I think from the outside-

    8. EWEmma Watson43:44

       Yeah

    9. JSJay Shetty43:45

       ... when someone sees a red carpet-

    10. EWEmma Watson43:46

        Yeah

    11. JSJay Shetty43:47

        ... or when someone sees an event, it looks really glamorous. Like, until I ever attended anything and-

    12. EWEmma Watson43:52

        Yeah

    13. JSJay Shetty43:53

        ... you know, I, I always looked at it as like, "Oh my gosh, it's so-

    14. EWEmma Watson43:55

        Okay

    15. JSJay Shetty43:55

        ... glamorous, and everyone's there, and everyone must be friends, and everyone must know each other because they all..." You know? But-

    16. EWEmma Watson44:01

        No

    17. JSJay Shetty44:01

        ... but then you're not saying that, and neither is... And, and any time I've ever been on a red carpet, everyone's anxious, and everyone's-

    18. EWEmma Watson44:08

        Yes

    19. JSJay Shetty44:08

        ... nervous, and that's-

    20. EWEmma Watson44:09

        Yes

    21. JSJay Shetty44:09

        ... the real experience.

    22. EWEmma Watson44:10

        Yes.

    23. JSJay Shetty44:11

        And people are almost waiting to leave.

    24. EWEmma Watson44:12

        Yes.

    25. JSJay Shetty44:13

        And some people do the red carpet and leave immediately. But, but what's going on there? Like, walk us through, like-

    26. EWEmma Watson44:17

        I mean-

    27. JSJay Shetty44:17

        ... for, for people who may not be familiar

    28. EWEmma Watson44:19

        ... I think the first step is to just understand even though you're wearing an incredibly glamorous dress and you're there to do something exciting, I don't think there's anything that can make it not weird that people are screaming at the top of their lungs. Like, it, it just, everything in your body says, "Something's wrong." Like, people are screaming. Something's wrong. But then you have to try to pretend as though this is-

    29. JSJay Shetty44:48

        You're unfazed

    30. EWEmma Watson44:48

        ... all normal, and you're unfazed. So you have, like, two things going on. One, you're, like, navigating this, like,

13. 44:55 – 49:15

    Living Between Two Worlds

    1. EWEmma Watson44:55

       sensory overload that's, like, telling you, "Oh my God, something is really wrong [laughs] with this."

    2. JSJay Shetty45:00

       And then you have to pose, telling you where to look.

    3. EWEmma Watson45:02

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    4. JSJay Shetty45:02

       Telling you.

    5. EWEmma Watson45:03

       Yeah, so you're, so you're trying to navigate, okay, something feels wrong, but I need to also simultaneously make it seem as though I am the most graceful and the most calm I've ever been in my whole life. And I need to, like, pose for this person, and there's 50 different cameras, and I need to make sure that I look perfectly into each and every one, and I probably will have had four different notes from the stylist about how I'm supposed to stand and what I need to do for the dress, and then I've got, like, 25 different talking points from the movie of, like, what I need to get across and also avoid saying or talking about. And so you're like, you need to be thinking about that, and the, the juggle's crazy. And then I think everyone is in this, like, kind of jumped up state. And so, like, trying to have a normal conversation with anyone is basically impossible because you feel like an insane person. And so these are not environments in which you, like, have a nice chat with someone really. I mean, maybe if you're really lucky and you've worked with someone for a long time, and you've established some trust. But I think that was the other thing that was, like, really difficult about [laughs] movies and what, like, I kind of laugh at. Well, not, not, like, not in a mean way. I don't... But, like, you know, you always get asked when you're, like, promoting these big films, like, "So do you guys hang out on set?" And like, "Do you guys hang out?" And like, "Are you all friends?" And everyone sort of, like, nods enthusiastically, but the truth is no one has seen each other outside of work. Like, very, very, very rarely. Mostly because the schedule is insane. Everyone's so tired that when they get any time off, you're going straight back to your hotel room to try to, like, claw in any piece of rest that you possibly can. And, like, I don't know. Like, it, friendships require time and trust and presence, and those things, like, very rarely come about. They, they can, and they, like, do occasionally, but it, it's more of a, more of a, you know, solar eclipse than a-

    6. JSJay Shetty47:03

       Yeah

    7. EWEmma Watson47:04

       [laughs] than an everyday situation. So yeah. Uh, but you have to pretend. I think that's the part that starts to feel icky after a while is, like, you, you have to pretend that you're all best friends. And what's so sad, and, and I, I know this isn't just the case for me, but, like, I think people wish they were.

    8. JSJay Shetty47:22

       Yeah.

    9. EWEmma Watson47:22

       I think we wish we did have those real connections and we did have that real support. And so having to pretend that something exists that you actually really want but don't have is, like-

    10. JSJay Shetty47:34

        Mm

    11. EWEmma Watson47:35

        ... it's, like-

    12. JSJay Shetty47:35

        That's it

    13. EWEmma Watson47:36

        ... pretty grainy in the wound, you know? It's, like, it's pretty, like, tough pill to swallow to have to act out something that you wish were real but isn't real.

    14. JSJay Shetty47:44

        Yeah.

    15. EWEmma Watson47:44

        Um, and I think that's the part that starts to kind of... Yeah. I can only speak for myself, but those are definitely the moments where I've been like, "This feels dark."

    16. JSJay Shetty47:54

        [laughs]

    17. EWEmma Watson47:55

        Like, is anyone else like, "This feels dark."

    18. JSJay Shetty47:58

        Yeah.

    19. EWEmma Watson47:58

        Um [laughs] yeah.

    20. JSJay Shetty47:59

        Yeah, it's... And, and there's such a real reminder that it's still work.

    21. EWEmma Watson48:04

        Yeah.

    22. JSJay Shetty48:04

        And it's almost like asking anyone who works at any company and saying, "Hey, do you hang out with your team after work every night?"

    23. EWEmma Watson48:10

        So, no. [laughs]

    24. JSJay Shetty48:10

        And the answer is probably no.

    25. EWEmma Watson48:12

        Just go home. Yeah.

    26. JSJay Shetty48:12

        Yeah, no, everyone has to go home to their family.

    27. EWEmma Watson48:13

        Yeah.

    28. JSJay Shetty48:14

        And maybe you've got a couple of, of course you've got a couple of friends at work.

    29. EWEmma Watson48:16

        Yeah.

    30. JSJay Shetty48:16

        And it's wonderful if you have a friend at work that you work out with or-
14. 49:15 – 54:03

    How Did You Become Hermione?

    1. EWEmma Watson49:15

       I think, about 12 students that-Was asked if I wanted to audition. I don't know, it was weird. I had this weird weighted, fated sense of destiny pretty much from the moment that, that they said, they mentioned the audition. I remember [laughs] I brought I think maybe like seven different Beanie Babies with me along and like all these different like lucky talismans, and I loved the world and the books so much. My dad had been reading them to me before bed when I would-

    2. JSJay Shetty49:50

       Wow

    3. EWEmma Watson49:50

       ... spend the weekends with him, and on long car journeys. We'd often drive back and forwards to France, and that's how the time would be passed. And so I was just, like loved the world, loved Hermione, and for me it wasn't so much about acting so much as it was that like I just, the books meant so much to me personally.

    4. JSJay Shetty50:16

       Did you feel like it was destiny for you or did it feel like, did you always feel like it was gonna be this-

    5. EWEmma Watson50:21

       I always-

    6. JSJay Shetty50:21

       'Cause obviously the books were already, you know.

    7. EWEmma Watson50:23

       I always felt like Hermione was, I knew I was never auditioning for anything else. Like I knew it was her. I don't know. I don't know how to explain it. Something felt right about it.

    8. JSJay Shetty50:37

       Mm.

    9. EWEmma Watson50:37

       And my, yeah, my poor parents, because if I hadn't have got it, I think they knew how crushed... I ended up doing nine auditions over a period of over a year and a half, which for a nine-year-old is-

    10. JSJay Shetty50:52

        A lot of work

    11. EWEmma Watson50:52

        ... a massive commitment. But I was, I loved her. I loved it. I really did.

    12. JSJay Shetty51:01

        Mm. What do you wish now that you would've known before you became Hermione?

    13. EWEmma Watson51:08

        I did a pretty good job, and I'm... Actually, I give my mother specifically credit for this. She was like a warrior for my normalcy and for me having an ordinary life and going to school, and no one wanted that. I mean, it would've been considerably easier if I had not continued going to school. Um, but she, wow, like I will forever be in her debt. She somehow knew that me feeling part of the ordinary world and feeling I had a place in it and that I belonged outside of those films was going to be crucial.

    14. JSJay Shetty51:55

        Mm. Wow, that's really incredible.

    15. EWEmma Watson51:58

        It was because she basically didn't have anyone on her team. She was kind of on her own on that one, and she fought tooth and nail. She was like on the phone for hours saying, "She has to sit her exams. She has to go back." Like, "She needs to be here. She, she needs to have some parts of a normal childhood." And yeah, forever in her debt.

    16. JSJay Shetty52:22

        Mm. That's so special to have had that and have those, yeah, to have a parent who, who-

    17. EWEmma Watson52:28

        Yeah

    18. JSJay Shetty52:29

        ... can like foresee, like-

    19. EWEmma Watson52:30

        Yes

    20. JSJay Shetty52:30

        ... and you can't see anything for yourself. You're a-

    21. EWEmma Watson52:32

        Yeah

    22. JSJay Shetty52:33

        ... you're, you're a child, like-

    23. EWEmma Watson52:33

        No, and, and to be honest, I didn't really, I didn't really get it.

    24. JSJay Shetty52:36

        No, of course not.

    25. EWEmma Watson52:36

        If I'm gonna be hon- I, I was like, "Okay."

    26. JSJay Shetty52:39

        [laughs]

    27. EWEmma Watson52:39

        Like, "I guess it's important." Like, "Mom," you know? [laughs] I like, I didn't really get it. So I think-

    28. JSJay Shetty52:45

        Yeah

    29. EWEmma Watson52:45

        ... yeah, she was amazing.

    30. JSJay Shetty52:46

        Yeah. When, when did, because from what I was reading from what you shared with me, I was, when did Emma, you, Emma Watson and Hermione and the characters that then followed start to get blurred and intertwined? Because-
15. 54:03 – 57:54

    Separating Self From the Role You Play

    1. JSJay Shetty54:03

       how different it was.

    2. EWEmma Watson54:04

       Yeah.

    3. JSJay Shetty54:04

       And because I think you just see-

    4. EWEmma Watson54:07

       Mm

    5. JSJay Shetty54:07

       ... fame or success or whatever it is, this one big bubble of-

    6. EWEmma Watson54:10

       Yeah

    7. JSJay Shetty54:10

       ... of stuff, especially when you're not that close to it, you don't know too much about it, and it was that conversation that made me even be even more personal with everyone that I ever spoke to-

    8. EWEmma Watson54:19

       Mm

    9. JSJay Shetty54:19

       ... because they'd always have a personal story or, uh-

    10. EWEmma Watson54:23

        Mm.

    11. JSJay Shetty54:23

        And, and that's not, not to say that isn't true for music and for acting, and of course there is. I don't wanna take away from that.

    12. EWEmma Watson54:28

        No, no.

    13. JSJay Shetty54:29

        Um, and I'm not saying that as a egotistical statement. I'm saying it as like how hard it is for an individual to go through that-

    14. EWEmma Watson54:38

        Yes

    15. JSJay Shetty54:38

        ... and to be disassociated from themselves-

    16. EWEmma Watson54:42

        Yes

    17. JSJay Shetty54:42

        ... uh, because that role could be a part of you, it could be an expression of you, it was a part of your life at a certain period of time, but of course it isn't you.

    18. EWEmma Watson54:51

        Yes.

    19. JSJay Shetty54:51

        Um, but does that make any sense?

    20. EWEmma Watson54:53

        I remember when I gave my UN speech about HeForShe and, and about feminism and women's rights, and people started stopping me because of things that I, had come from me and that I'd said. It felt like a very significant transition for me because I, for the first time I felt like I could look someone in the eye and receive and accept something that they were saying because I, I felt like it actually had something to do... with me, and I wasn't just kind of a, like, a custodian of something sacred, which I did take very seriously, and I still do, but it had been a direct transmission from me. And I think that's why writing has become so important to me is because it's a way that I can say things directly, and that feels really meaningful.

    21. JSJay Shetty55:43

        Yeah. I love, I love the word you just used there of the difference between being a custodian and, you know, direct transmission, you said.

    22. EWEmma Watson55:52

        Mm-hmm.

    23. JSJay Shetty55:53

        And, and that's such an interesting way to think about it, and I think each and every one of us don't wanna be known as a lawyer or an accountant or a doctor or a... Like, that yes, that's a part of us, and it's a role we play in society, and it of course brings significance and value and worth and all of these wonderful things, but I think everyone wants to be something beyond that, and no one wants to be that in their home, and no one wants to be that with their friends, and-

    24. EWEmma Watson56:18

        Mm

    25. JSJay Shetty56:18

        ... no one, no one wants... And, and me included, by the way. It's like I-

    26. EWEmma Watson56:21

        Mm

    27. JSJay Shetty56:21

        ... I try, and me and my fr- m- one of my friends who's a, who's a well-known stand-up comic, we always joke about how he hates to be asked to tell jokes on command, and, and I try with my friends to not say smart things. [laughs]

    28. EWEmma Watson56:34

        [laughs] Yeah.

    29. JSJay Shetty56:35

        I try not to say thoughtful-

    30. EWEmma Watson56:37

        [laughs]
16. 57:54 – 1:07:40

    The Hidden Cost of Never Slowing Down

    1. EWEmma Watson57:54

       And I was like, "Emma Watson [laughs] makes me anxious too."

    2. JSJay Shetty57:57

       [laughs] That's so good.

    3. EWEmma Watson57:58

       Like, we are on the same page. Like, I get it. Like, I, I can't even be her. I, I don't know how to be her, live up to, to w- what I look like on the cover of a magazine. I don't look like that. Like, I, I can't... I don't know. I don't even know how to touch what that person's become. [laughs] That was kind of a funny realization-

    4. JSJay Shetty58:20

       [laughs]

    5. EWEmma Watson58:20

       ... at some point where I was like, "Maybe I need to step off this thing 'cause I just..." Once you've... I don't know. There's such a glamorization that comes hand-in-hand with being a public famous person, especially if you're a woman. Like, I feel, I feel so envious of my male co-stars who can just put on a T-shirt and show up without, like-

    6. JSJay Shetty58:42

       Oh, yeah

    7. EWEmma Watson58:42

       ... this, like, whole rigmarole of kind of becoming acceptable enough to be on camera. And, ugh, like, kudos to Pamela Anderson recently [laughs] just, like, doing the thing, 'cause it's like y- the amount of courage it would've taken to do that-

    8. JSJay Shetty58:59

       Yeah

    9. EWEmma Watson58:59

       ... like, I cannot even begin to express to you. It's wild. The, the expectations are insane. It's impossible. So-

    10. JSJay Shetty59:11

        Being shot on vacation.

    11. EWEmma Watson59:13

        Yeah.

    12. JSJay Shetty59:13

        Private space.

    13. EWEmma Watson59:14

        Yeah, yeah. Just the, the, the, the beauty expectations are so difficult to reach, and the bar gets raised all the time. So it's like you're on this constantly, like, I don't know. It's like a, some sort of [laughs] like Survivor's Island game show beauty nightmare where, you know... I don't know. It's, it's, it's nuts. So I, yeah, I think part of also not feeling like Emma Watson is just, like, the whole, like, glam squad culture of, of it all is, it's intense.

    14. JSJay Shetty59:52

        [laughs]

    15. EWEmma Watson59:53

        [laughs] It's... Yeah.

    16. JSJay Shetty59:55

        It's so fascinating because there's almost, like, this, this learning of becoming-

    17. EWEmma Watson1:00:00

        Mm

    18. JSJay Shetty1:00:00

        ... you know, becoming Emma Watson, becoming-

    19. EWEmma Watson1:00:02

        Yeah

    20. JSJay Shetty1:00:02

        ... you know, being all the roles you play, and then it almost feels like what you're saying is there was a moment you wanted to step off-

    21. EWEmma Watson1:00:09

        Mm

    22. JSJay Shetty1:00:09

        ... and unlearn what that meant.

    23. EWEmma Watson1:00:10

        Totally.

    24. JSJay Shetty1:00:11

        But that seems really hard-

    25. EWEmma Watson1:00:15

        Yes

    26. JSJay Shetty1:00:16

        ... because-

    27. EWEmma Watson1:00:17

        Yes

    28. JSJay Shetty1:00:17

        ... learning it was hard enough, and then to unlearn it-

    29. EWEmma Watson1:00:20

        Yeah

    30. JSJay Shetty1:00:20

        ... when it's linked to your work, your finances, your worth, your f- friendship, community, connection, all of the-
17. 1:07:40 – 1:09:57

    Dating is Complicated For Everyone!

    1. EWEmma Watson1:07:41

       uh, helpful. A relief.

    2. JSJay Shetty1:07:43

       How do you help people get to know the real you at this stage in your life?

    3. EWEmma Watson1:07:46

       You know, I wrote this play that I actually sent to you to read, but I actually read parts of it to people, um, because I find that trying to explain sometimes how weird it is to be me, like, I almost need aids. Like, it's not ... It's so difficult to convey how, like, how weird it is and how surreal sometimes that I ... Sometimes I'll just be like, "Can I just, like, read you this thing [laughs] I wrote, because I think it's gonna shortcut you somewhere?" And so that's actually been incredibly helpful, and I'm, I'm so glad I, I went and did this, this creative writing masters, and I've spent more time writing about my experiences because sometimes I can't even articulate it to myself. Like, how, how are you supposed to explain something to someone else that you can't really even understand for yourself? So I think writing, creative writing, making art, has been the best therapy I've ever done because it's helped me get clarity. And also just be able to laugh at myself and laugh at the situation. I think one-on-one therapy can be amazing, but, like, there is a kind of intensity and a seriousness to that that maybe when you're writing something down, and when I wrote the play, I wrote it for my friends and family, and I, I was able to kind of be more my- bring more of myself to the picture in a way, which as someone who's like, "This is just nuts," like, I just can't ... Like, I can't ... Sometimes I just genuinely cannot believe that my life is my life, and, um, [laughs] I need a place I can put that.

    4. JSJay Shetty1:09:30

       Yeah.

    5. EWEmma Watson1:09:31

       Yeah.

    6. JSJay Shetty1:09:31

       I, I loved ... So just for everyone who's, you know, hearing about the referencing of this play, Emma wrote a play-

    7. EWEmma Watson1:09:39

       [laughs] Yeah

    8. JSJay Shetty1:09:39

       ... which helped her closest friends and family understand-

    9. EWEmma Watson1:09:43

       Mm

    10. JSJay Shetty1:09:43

        ... her experience of life, basically.

    11. EWEmma Watson1:09:45

        Yeah. Yeah.

    12. JSJay Shetty1:09:45

        Right? Is that a bad description as a-

    13. EWEmma Watson1:09:47

        Well, specif-

    14. JSJay Shetty1:09:48

        ... inter-

    15. EWEmma Watson1:09:48

        No, no, it's not a bad description.

    16. JSJay Shetty1:09:49

        Yeah.

    17. EWEmma Watson1:09:49

        But, like, specifically, I wrote the play about me transitioning from basically being a full-time actress-

    18. JSJay Shetty1:09:55

        Yes

    19. EWEmma Watson1:09:55

        ... and activist to

18. 1:09:57 – 1:11:44

    Revealing the Real You to Others

    1. EWEmma Watson1:09:57

       trying to [laughs] move home and, like, be a normal student and attend a normal university as a super famous person. And I, I basically kept a journal of what those experiences were like and chronicled them for my friends and family for about a year, and then performed it as a one-woman show at the end of the first year and handed that in as my, as my first year piece of work. And yeah, yeah.

    2. JSJay Shetty1:10:27

       Did it get an A?

    3. EWEmma Watson1:10:28

       I- it got a distinction. [laughs]

    4. JSJay Shetty1:10:29

       Oh, amazing. Great.

    5. EWEmma Watson1:10:31

       It actually did.

    6. JSJay Shetty1:10:31

       There we go. I love it.

    7. EWEmma Watson1:10:32

       It actually did.

    8. JSJay Shetty1:10:32

       You deserved it.

    9. EWEmma Watson1:10:33

       Not that that was the point, but-

    10. JSJay Shetty1:10:34

        [laughs] Yeah

    11. EWEmma Watson1:10:35

        ... it kind of wasn't the point, but-

    12. JSJay Shetty1:10:36

        Yeah

    13. EWEmma Watson1:10:36

        ... I think the coolest thing was was, like, I read it for my roommate, for example-

    14. JSJay Shetty1:10:40

        Yeah

    15. EWEmma Watson1:10:40

        ... who's been living with me for seven years, and he was like, "Wait, wait, wait. Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop." He's like, "Is this actually how you feel? Like, do you actually feel this?" And I was like, "Yeah, I wouldn't have written it if I didn't." And he was like, "I had no idea-

    16. JSJay Shetty1:10:53

        Mm-hmm

    17. EWEmma Watson1:10:53

        ... that this was how you felt." And this is someone I live with. And so for me, who I perceive myself to be this, like, massive open book, and actually I realized, I was like, "Wow, I think I'm doing a good job of bringing the people that I love along with me on what this feels like, and actually I'm not saying nearly enough or explaining it in a way where it makes sense."

    18. JSJay Shetty1:11:18

        Yeah.

    19. EWEmma Watson1:11:18

        And so even my parents were just like, couldn't believe it really. Yeah.

    20. JSJay Shetty1:11:23

        I'm sure they were brought to tears by parts of it. I mean-

    21. EWEmma Watson1:11:25

        [laughs]

    22. JSJay Shetty1:11:25

        ... I was, I was so moved by it, and I really hope you do one day make it a, uh-

    23. EWEmma Watson1:11:30

        [laughs]

    24. JSJay Shetty1:11:30

        ... a production in some capacity, because it-

    25. EWEmma Watson1:11:32

        Thank you

    26. JSJay Shetty1:11:33

        ... it was so moving and so powerful, and it was, Emma, honestly, it was what every public figure-

    27. EWEmma Watson1:11:41

        Mm

    28. JSJay Shetty1:11:41

        ... has ever tried to explain to me about their experience,

19. 1:11:44 – 1:20:08

    Emma’s One-Woman Play

    1. JSJay Shetty1:11:45

       yet put so succinctly, powerfully, and meaningfully that anyone could relate to it. And I think anyone meaning anyone who's ever felt misunderstood, loved for what they have and not who they are, seen for parts of themselves and not all of themselves. And I, I really believe it would be such a service to everyone to share it one day in however way you decide to, because honestly, I was gripped. I was completely captivated. I couldn't put it down. I feel like I'm gonna read it again and again and again. It's not something that I think you read once. Not only are you a brilliant writer, but it is so true and honest. And for everyone who's listening and watching, I think the lesson from it for me is that your therapy could turn into something creative, that when you shared that with me when we were speaking on the phone, I was so in awe of that, that therapy in one-to-one setting or in whatever way of healing you believe in-

    2. EWEmma Watson1:12:43

       Mm

    3. JSJay Shetty1:12:44

       ... if it turns into something you have to put together to communicate to others, that's the revelation. Like, the revelation is in that process-

    4. EWEmma Watson1:12:53

       Yes

    5. JSJay Shetty1:12:53

       ... not in the listening, telling, share, uh-

    6. EWEmma Watson1:12:56

       Yeah

    7. JSJay Shetty1:12:56

       ... speaking. That, that's great, and that's a part of it, but if you can go one step ahead-

    8. EWEmma Watson1:13:01

       Truly, I, I feel this, like, urgency and, like, desperation to communicate this specific piece, which is, like, make art about your experiences. Like, the neurosis of being a writer or anyone making anything is like, "I don't have anything valuable to say. It's all been said before. This is so in- self-indulgent. This is so narcissistic. Who even wants to hear this? This is bad." I thought all of those thoughts probably most days as I wrote this. But-Trust me, like, whatever you think people know about you or they know about your life or how you feel about it, they don't, and they need you to write poems, write songs, make pictures, write plays. And you don't need to be someone with the title of an artist to be able to do that. You really don't. And in fact, I have to write on my mirror, I have it written on my door, "I am an artist," because I don't think anyone feels like they deserve that title. I've been making films and writing and making art since I was nine years old, and I don't feel like I deserve that title, and I have to work at it all the time to feel like I have anything that's worthwhile saying. I really understand the struggle. I really, really do. But there is something about doing it and, like, having a physical thing, because I think so many of these thoughts and feelings live in our heads, and it's not a great place for them to live. They need to come out somewhere. And once you can put them somewhere, then you're free. Being understood or feeling like you're understood by the people around you has got to be the best feeling-

    9. JSJay Shetty1:14:47

       Mm

    10. EWEmma Watson1:14:47

        ... in the world, and I think it's what we're looking for when we do so many things. But often that's not the way to find it.

    11. JSJay Shetty1:14:56

        Mm.

    12. EWEmma Watson1:14:56

        And I just, God, yeah, if I, honestly, I want to go to every person in the street and be like, "You need to write a one-person show about your life and then perform it for your friends and family."

    13. JSJay Shetty1:15:07

        [laughs]

    14. EWEmma Watson1:15:07

        Or, like, you need to, like, [laughs] you know, paint the thing, write the song, like, just do it because it's kind of one of the best, most meaningful things I've, I've done-

    15. JSJay Shetty1:15:17

        Yeah

    16. EWEmma Watson1:15:18

        ... is trying to make sense of, [laughs] sense of it all, yeah.

    17. JSJay Shetty1:15:21

        And I love that you did it for your family. Like, that's-

    18. EWEmma Watson1:15:23

        Yeah

    19. JSJay Shetty1:15:24

        ... the part that proves to me when you say the message of make your art, and-

    20. EWEmma Watson1:15:27

        Mm

    21. JSJay Shetty1:15:27

        ... you know, you don't need to be a full-time actor or a director or movie filmmaker-

    22. EWEmma Watson1:15:31

        No, no, no, no

    23. JSJay Shetty1:15:31

        ... it's like you actually lived that part.

    24. EWEmma Watson1:15:33

        Yeah.

    25. JSJay Shetty1:15:33

        And that's what I love about it the most-

    26. EWEmma Watson1:15:35

        Aw, yeah

    27. JSJay Shetty1:15:35

        ... is that you didn't make it for-

    28. EWEmma Watson1:15:37

        No

    29. JSJay Shetty1:15:37

        ... a stage or a movie or a documentary or whatever. You know?

    30. EWEmma Watson1:15:41

        And honestly, first I wrote it for myself.
20. 1:20:08 – 1:26:27

    What is Real Love?

    1. JSJay Shetty1:20:08

       today?

    2. EWEmma Watson1:20:08

       God, what a great question. Oh, um, [sighs] how do I see love today? Oh, okay, I think I have an answer for this. How exciting. I was worried there for a minute. I was like, "Shit-

    3. JSJay Shetty1:20:21

       [laughs]

    4. EWEmma Watson1:20:22

       ... I've got something to say. God, I hope I do. Am I that deep?" Yeah. Okay. So, um, I think that, oh, we don't talk about love nearly enough, or I think we need to talk about it so much more because I had such a, not a misunderstanding, but I think I had a very limited understanding of it for a long time, which was that we see in Disney movies and in Hollywood movies this idea that, like, falling in love, once it's sort of happened to you, it's, like, irreversible. You know, you, like, step into this portal that you can't get out of anymore because you've fallen in love, and actually, I, I think falling in love might be quite easy to do in some ways. That's sort of the easy bit. The hard part is finding someone who actually wants to be in a dance with you and be in some form of partnership with you. And things like, can you argue well? Can you be... Is the conflict that you have generative? And can you make someone else feel safe? Like, and when I say safe, I don't mean, like, out of physical danger. I mean, like, can you either respond to a text message quickly enough that doesn't send [laughs] the other person into, like, complete free fall and/or not pelt them with so many that they feel completely overwhelmed and flooded. And, like, that kind of, like, compatibility and that kind of willingness to be in this, like, "Is this okay for you? Does this feel good to you? This is how it feels for me," and, like, those, like, that constant back and forth and that constant check-in is, like, a, a game of, um, chicken in a way-

    5. JSJay Shetty1:22:04

       Mm

    6. EWEmma Watson1:22:04

       ... of, like, can you find someone who's willing to be as vulnerable as it necessarily requires, I think, to, like, figure out those micro adjustments until you're sort of in some kind of dance with someone else. And that is a very different understanding that I've [laughs] come to of what love is than I had. I mean, like, loving someone is so much more complex than the projections that we-

    7. JSJay Shetty1:22:31

       Mm

    8. EWEmma Watson1:22:31

       ... put on someone or even, like, just lusting or having some small feeling for someone else. But I just think that we have such a black-and-white idea about what love is supposed to be, and I wish I'd understood more before I went into battle. I do. I really, really do. [laughs]

    9. JSJay Shetty1:22:57

       [laughs]

    10. EWEmma Watson1:22:57

        What do you think love is, Jay?

    11. JSJay Shetty1:22:58

        Oh, wow. Oh my gosh. You're flipping this back, Emma.

    12. EWEmma Watson1:23:01

        Yeah.

    13. JSJay Shetty1:23:01

        This is about you. It's not about me.

    14. EWEmma Watson1:23:02

        This is a conversation.

    15. JSJay Shetty1:23:04

        I know.

    16. EWEmma Watson1:23:04

        [laughs]

    17. JSJay Shetty1:23:04

        I'm joking. I just-

    18. EWEmma Watson1:23:05

        Or does any of what I've said resonate?

    19. JSJay Shetty1:23:07

        It does. It does. It resonates a lot.

    20. EWEmma Watson1:23:09

        Am I on the right track, Jay?

    21. JSJay Shetty1:23:10

        [laughs]

    22. EWEmma Watson1:23:10

        I need you to tell me. [laughs]

    23. JSJay Shetty1:23:13

        I think it resonates a lot. I, I grew up in a, I grew up with a very film, naive Disney version of what love was.

    24. EWEmma Watson1:23:21

        Yeah.

    25. JSJay Shetty1:23:21

        And I loved that version of love.

    26. EWEmma Watson1:23:22

        Yeah.

    27. JSJay Shetty1:23:23

        I loved the idea that love was this really romantic, really sweet, writing letters every day kinda love.

    28. EWEmma Watson1:23:32

        Mm.

    29. JSJay Shetty1:23:32

        Like, that, that's the love I dreamed of and-

    30. EWEmma Watson1:23:33

        Yeah
21. 1:26:27 – 1:32:35

    Finding Love Beyond the Fantasy

    1. JSJay Shetty1:26:27

       how men have been adored since the beginning of time for going out and getting the food or going out there and winning the battle or conquering a nation, and that's what you were known for. And so my wife's been with me since before my career took off-

    2. EWEmma Watson1:26:43

       Mm

    3. JSJay Shetty1:26:43

       ... and I had any success, and I think as I gained success, I think my immaturity was to want her to love me for that more, and she never did. She-

    4. EWEmma Watson1:26:51

       [laughs]

    5. JSJay Shetty1:26:51

       ... just didn't do it.

    6. EWEmma Watson1:26:53

       Wow.

    7. JSJay Shetty1:26:53

       And, and it drove me-

    8. EWEmma Watson1:26:54

       How amazing

    9. JSJay Shetty1:26:54

       ... crazy, and she didn't do it in a rejecting way or in a-

    10. EWEmma Watson1:26:59

        Mm

    11. JSJay Shetty1:26:59

        ... in a... It just didn't make a difference to her.

    12. EWEmma Watson1:27:02

        This isn't why I love you.

    13. JSJay Shetty1:27:03

        And, and it took me a long time to wrap my head around that and realize, because it, you know, those are the times when you could start liking other people who love you-

    14. EWEmma Watson1:27:11

        Yeah

    15. JSJay Shetty1:27:11

        ... for what you have achieved and what you have built and all the rest of it. And I think I just have so much respect for her that, and-

    16. EWEmma Watson1:27:19

        She never gave in on that.

    17. JSJay Shetty1:27:20

        Yeah, she never gave in, and, and she helped me love myself for who I am.

    18. EWEmma Watson1:27:23

        Wow.

    19. JSJay Shetty1:27:23

        And I think that's the point, that I think I would've, if I had met someone else, I would've valued myself for very different reasons.

    20. EWEmma Watson1:27:30

        Mm.

    21. JSJay Shetty1:27:31

        And knowing you're with someone who truly is with you because of who you are and your character, and that's what they honor. And I, and I think that word honor and respect-

    22. EWEmma Watson1:27:40

        Mm

    23. JSJay Shetty1:27:40

        ... probably the last thing I'd say, I think we always say, like, love is respect and based on respect.

    24. EWEmma Watson1:27:45

        Mm.

    25. JSJay Shetty1:27:45

        But-

    26. EWEmma Watson1:27:46

        I've, I wrote a list of things that I, I tried to be clear with myself about what it is I was really looking for and I really want, and one is someone that I can learn from. So it's really interesting that you said learning without teaching, teaching without learning, and that kind of reciprocal. I, I really want to be with someone that I can learn some- learn from, and I hope that, yeah, as you say, has the humility to be willing to learn from me. But the other thing is, I think it's why [laughs] I was so obsessed with the musical, musical Hamilton [laughs] and why so many people have been.

    27. JSJay Shetty1:28:17

        Love Hamilton.

    28. EWEmma Watson1:28:17

        But, like, maybe this is, it's so funny that we're on, on the Purpose podcast, but, like, are you with someone who... 'Cause obviously what you have with someone is, is wonderful, right? Like, what you two share together. But if you can be in service of a vision that you both share, or at the very least, are you willing to honor and give dignity to the work of the other person and whatever their vision or mission is in this world? That to me seems far more sustainable than anything else. And so I guess my big hope or wish would be that I met someone who feels like what I want to do in the world, yes, that I'm important, but they also feel that what I'm here to do is important to them, too, and in some way intersects with what they're here to do.

    29. JSJay Shetty1:29:07

        I couldn't agree more. That's exactly what I was gonna say.

    30. EWEmma Watson1:29:09

        Is it? [laughs]
22. 1:32:35 – 1:38:47

    Facing the Question: Why Are You Not Married Yet?

    1. EWEmma Watson1:32:35

       kind of way, is like the least romantic thing I can possibly think of. Like, truly, like, if I had tried to get married, any point basically before about a year ago, it would've been carnage. I just didn't know myself well enough yet. I didn't have a clear enough idea of what my purpose, my vision, like how I was gonna be of service. I didn't know where I f- really felt like I needed to be. I think I have some of those answers now. So when I meet someone, I can say, "Hi, I'm Emma. This is what I care about. This is where the people I love the most live. This is where it's meaningful for me to be in the world" And then they can decide whether they can see that there's a way that I can serve what they're trying to do, and they can serve what I'm trying to do. But before that, like they would've just got like a very mixed signal. I mean, there's some parts of me that have stayed utterly consistent.

    2. JSJay Shetty1:33:39

       Mm-hmm.

    3. EWEmma Watson1:33:40

       But there are some parts that, like, I was really still teasing out and figuring out, and I think it's such a violence, and it's such a cruelty on people, and especially young people, I think, to ma- and especially women, to make them feel like they have no worth or like they haven't succeeded yet in life because they haven't forced to its culmination something that I just don't think can or should ever be forced. It's something that, like, honestly, I feel like I've had to earn, I've had to work for, to be in a place where I feel like I can look someone in the eye and be able to tell them who I am, and to have some, [laughs] some idea, and it will change and grow of, of what I want and what I'm here to do. That takes work. Like, I have, like, really sat with myself in a lot of discomfort and asked myself a lot of very difficult questions to be at that point. It hasn't happened to me yet.

    4. JSJay Shetty1:34:45

       I do think everyone's worthy of love, but I-

    5. EWEmma Watson1:34:47

       Mm.

    6. JSJay Shetty1:34:48

       Like, I, I... And, and I don't think that's what you're saying either. Yeah.

    7. EWEmma Watson1:34:51

       Yeah, thanks. [laughs]

    8. JSJay Shetty1:34:51

       That's fine. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

    9. EWEmma Watson1:34:54

       I guess maybe, like, partnership or marriage, I guess, is what we're both saying is, like, almost a different game. Like, it's, it's almost a different playing field, actually.

    10. JSJay Shetty1:35:03

        Yeah.

    11. EWEmma Watson1:35:03

        Like, actually co-joining and tr- like, properly sharing your life with someone and being in partnership with them seems like it's its own thing.

    12. JSJay Shetty1:35:12

        It is. It, it takes so much work, and it takes so much adjustment and adapting more than compromising and sacrificing.

    13. EWEmma Watson1:35:22

        Mm.

    14. JSJay Shetty1:35:22

        But there's so much flexibility.

    15. EWEmma Watson1:35:24

        Mm.

    16. JSJay Shetty1:35:24

        There's so much allowing. It's, it's so different at different times. Like, sometimes patience looks like being by that person's side-

    17. EWEmma Watson1:35:33

        Mm.

    18. JSJay Shetty1:35:33

        -and saying nothing.

    19. EWEmma Watson1:35:35

        Yes.

    20. JSJay Shetty1:35:35

        And sometimes patience means being halfway across the world-

    21. EWEmma Watson1:35:39

        Yes.

    22. JSJay Shetty1:35:39

        -and not communicating.

    23. EWEmma Watson1:35:41

        Yes.

    24. JSJay Shetty1:35:41

        And sometimes patience looks like, uh, talking and listening. Like, you know, it's, it's-

    25. EWEmma Watson1:35:46

        Mm.

    26. JSJay Shetty1:35:46

        Patience doesn't look like one thing over a-

    27. EWEmma Watson1:35:49

        Mm.

    28. JSJay Shetty1:35:49

        -a lifespan, and there are parts of my wife that have stayed exactly the same in 12 years, and there are parts that have completely changed. And I have a choice every time that happens to learn to love the new-

    29. EWEmma Watson1:36:02

        Mm.

    30. JSJay Shetty1:36:02

        -or not.
23. 1:38:47 – 1:41:29

    Trust Versus Telling the Truth

    1. JSJay Shetty1:38:47

       you in the air.

    2. EWEmma Watson1:38:47

       Yes.

    3. JSJay Shetty1:38:47

       And it's like-

    4. EWEmma Watson1:38:48

       Yes

    5. JSJay Shetty1:38:48

       ... well, I would've liked a warning.

    6. EWEmma Watson1:38:50

       Yes.

    7. JSJay Shetty1:38:50

       Uh, and, and that's why your analogy's so good, because it's-

    8. EWEmma Watson1:38:54

       Mm

    9. JSJay Shetty1:38:55

       ... you would throw someone up in a dance at some point if you were both talented and gifted enough, but there would've been a preparation, there would've been a nod-

    10. EWEmma Watson1:39:01

        Yeah

    11. JSJay Shetty1:39:01

        ... there would've been a look, a feel, a touch, or-

    12. EWEmma Watson1:39:04

        Yeah

    13. JSJay Shetty1:39:04

        ... you know-

    14. EWEmma Watson1:39:04

        Yes

    15. JSJay Shetty1:39:04

        ... to set that up, and-

    16. EWEmma Watson1:39:05

        Yes.

    17. JSJay Shetty1:39:06

        And, like, one of the hardest questions, you talked about asking, answer, asking yourself difficult questions, and I wanna ask you something about that. But one thing I've said to my wife is, "If you ever fall out of love with me, please tell me," because I don't want to live a day without love. I'm really confident about the fact that I'm worthy of love and that I wanna experience love in my life.

    18. EWEmma Watson1:39:25

        Mm.

    19. JSJay Shetty1:39:26

        If you ever fall out of love with me, just tell me. It's okay.

    20. EWEmma Watson1:39:29

        Mm.

    21. JSJay Shetty1:39:29

        Because I don't have the desire-

    22. EWEmma Watson1:39:31

        Yeah

    23. JSJay Shetty1:39:32

        ... to stay somewhere for any other reason. And it sounds risky saying that, and extreme, but to me, it's a greater risk to have spent 10 extra years with someone-

    24. EWEmma Watson1:39:41

        Mm

    25. JSJay Shetty1:39:41

        ... and then they tell me, "I haven't really loved you for the last five, 10 years." And then I'm like, wait a minute, I've lived without love for 10 years of my life, and I don't want to be in that place, because I've seen people go through that-

    26. EWEmma Watson1:39:51

        Mm

    27. JSJay Shetty1:39:52

        ... and, and not be happy.

    28. EWEmma Watson1:39:52

        Mm.

    29. JSJay Shetty1:39:52

        And so it does come with a humility and a-

    30. EWEmma Watson1:39:56

        Yeah
24. 1:41:29 – 1:44:56

    Choosing Partnership, Not Obligation

    1. JSJay Shetty1:41:29

       you know what peace feels like.

    2. EWEmma Watson1:41:31

       Mm.

    3. JSJay Shetty1:41:32

       And so then anyone or anything that comes-

    4. EWEmma Watson1:41:33

       Mm

    5. JSJay Shetty1:41:33

       ... into your life-

    6. EWEmma Watson1:41:34

       Mm, and what feeling satisfied feels like.

    7. JSJay Shetty1:41:36

       Satisfied is probably even a better word.

    8. EWEmma Watson1:41:38

       Yeah.

    9. JSJay Shetty1:41:38

       And, and that feeling of I know what it feels like to be satisfied, and so I now know whether someone makes me more satisfied-

    10. EWEmma Watson1:41:45

        Yes

    11. JSJay Shetty1:41:45

        ... or less.

    12. EWEmma Watson1:41:46

        I know what my baseline is.

    13. JSJay Shetty1:41:47

        Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    14. EWEmma Watson1:41:48

        If you don't know what your baseline happy is, then how do you-- you've got no idea of-

    15. JSJay Shetty1:41:51

        Yeah

    16. EWEmma Watson1:41:51

        ... knowing what's going on at all.

    17. JSJay Shetty1:41:54

        Yeah. And that's not a feeling of being complete or having it all figured out.

    18. EWEmma Watson1:41:57

        Yeah.

    19. JSJay Shetty1:41:57

        It's like I know wh- satisfy's a great word.

    20. EWEmma Watson1:41:59

        Mm.

    21. JSJay Shetty1:41:59

        It's like I know what it feels like to be at, at peace with myself or satisfied with myself, and-

    22. EWEmma Watson1:42:04

        Mm

    23. JSJay Shetty1:42:05

        ... now everyone can show me-

    24. EWEmma Watson1:42:07

        Yes

    25. JSJay Shetty1:42:07

        ... where that pendulum swings.

    26. EWEmma Watson1:42:09

        Yes.

    27. JSJay Shetty1:42:10

        Um, one thing you said, which I, which really resonated with me, is that you've had to ask yourself so many hard questions to do the work, and I wanted to ask you, what-

    28. EWEmma Watson1:42:18

        Mm

    29. JSJay Shetty1:42:19

        ... what's one of the hardest questions you've ever had to ask yourself, if you could recall?

    30. EWEmma Watson1:42:23

        Well, the first one that comes to mind, and then maybe I'll dig for a deeper, different one, is, like, to have to admit to myself or ask myself the question of, like, you right now have the career and the life that, like, looks like the dream, but are you really happy, Emma? Are you really healthy? Are you really happy? Like, is this really what you want? [laughs] And to be at that point and, like, reali- and have to admit to myself that I wasn't and I didn't was one of the scariest things I've ever had to do. Because, you know, I basically had to ask myself on a daily basis, like, I felt like I was crazy. And walking away from something without knowing what you're walking towards-
25. 1:44:56 – 1:48:25

    Asking Yourself the Hard Questions

    1. JSJay Shetty1:44:56

       from and, and stepping toward.

    2. EWEmma Watson1:44:57

       Yeah.

    3. JSJay Shetty1:44:57

       Did you have people in the industry or, like, people that you could talk to that felt the same way? Like, did you have co-stars or friends or-

    4. EWEmma Watson1:45:05

       No.

    5. JSJay Shetty1:45:06

       Wow.

    6. EWEmma Watson1:45:06

       I- no, I don't know anyone else. I'll never say that I, I- I quit acting. I'll always be an actor. I'm still open to doing it again. It's, uh ... But I certainly made a decision to, to take time to figure out, to not know, and to ... You know, I had, like, this whole disassembling the structure that's needed to carry [laughs] the load of Emma Watson. It's like there's an agent, and a publicist, and a manager, and a, a personal assistant, and there's all these people and lives who are intertwined with mine. And navigating and caring for and negotiating that with people as well was, like, was really tricky. And also I was just bloody terrified. Like, I think there's a kind of infantilization that can happen when you work as much as I did, and a kind of loss of independence that means that you're like, "Oh, my God, can I even do my life if I don't have this, like, army of people who are, like, helping me do the most menial and basic of things?" Like, can I actually, like, [laughs] do this stuff myself? And, and I don't even say that in terms of, like, capability, but, like, just from the place of, like, it's difficult for me to walk down the street sometimes. So if I'm gonna start to take on truly the responsibility for most of my life myself, like, what's that gonna be like? Like, can I really do that stuff? I think fame makes you feel like you can't do things for yourself in a way that can really disempower you and, and remove your confidence and autonomy as a human being. That's, that's really disabling.

    7. JSJay Shetty1:46:54

       And for everyone who's, who's wondering, yeah, Emma called me up, and I was like-

    8. EWEmma Watson1:46:57

       [laughs]

    9. JSJay Shetty1:46:57

       "So should I speak to your publicist?" She's like, "Nope."

    10. EWEmma Watson1:46:59

        [laughs]

    11. JSJay Shetty1:46:59

        "I am my publicist." [laughs] Like, I was like, "Do I need to check with a manager?" "Nope, I am my manager." And, like, that was literally the conversation we had.

    12. EWEmma Watson1:47:05

        And was she like-

    13. JSJay Shetty1:47:05

        So she booked this podcast herself

    14. EWEmma Watson1:47:08

        ... anyone [laughs]

    15. JSJay Shetty1:47:08

        There was no booker. There was no booking system. There was no, there was no reach out.

    16. EWEmma Watson1:47:13

        No.

    17. JSJay Shetty1:47:13

        It was literally Emma doing it herself, which is proof you are living your values.

    18. EWEmma Watson1:47:17

        Thank you.

    19. JSJay Shetty1:47:17

        And, and you are aligned with what you're saying.

    20. EWEmma Watson1:47:19

        Thank God.

    21. JSJay Shetty1:47:19

        I wanted people to know that.

    22. EWEmma Watson1:47:21

        Thank you. I appreciate that.

    23. JSJay Shetty1:47:22

        Yeah.

    24. EWEmma Watson1:47:22

        What's so funny though now is, like, because I do everything myself, there's, like, a 50% chance you would have not thought it was me. Or, like, sometimes when I reach out to people-

    25. JSJay Shetty1:47:31

        Oh, trust me, I had plenty of moments [laughs] where I had to double take.

    26. EWEmma Watson1:47:34

        [laughs] I'm like, "Is it-"

    27. JSJay Shetty1:47:35

        I was like, "Wait a minute," like-

    28. EWEmma Watson1:47:36

        Verified tick

    29. JSJay Shetty1:47:37

        ... just verified, verified tick

    30. EWEmma Watson1:47:38

        ... pe-
26. 1:48:25 – 1:51:44

    How Fame Reshapes Everyday Life

    1. JSJay Shetty1:48:25

       when you have a entire career lined up on the other side?

    2. EWEmma Watson1:48:28

       Mm.

    3. JSJay Shetty1:48:28

       You have an amazing career.

    4. EWEmma Watson1:48:29

       Mm.

    5. JSJay Shetty1:48:29

       You've ... Every movie you've been in has been magical and amazing.

    6. EWEmma Watson1:48:32

       Mm.

    7. JSJay Shetty1:48:32

       Like, it's, when you look at your portfolio of-

    8. EWEmma Watson1:48:34

       Mm

    9. JSJay Shetty1:48:35

       ... choices, like, they're all brilliant performances.

    10. EWEmma Watson1:48:37

        Mm.

    11. JSJay Shetty1:48:37

        They're great films. They're ... And you only would have more of that.

    12. EWEmma Watson1:48:41

        Mm.

    13. JSJay Shetty1:48:41

        So it's also not like you're leaving a career that's kind of had its ... Like, do you know what I mean?

    14. EWEmma Watson1:48:46

        Yeah.

    15. JSJay Shetty1:48:46

        It's, it's, it's, it's at a place where no business-oriented person could imagine why.

    16. EWEmma Watson1:48:52

        Mm. Mm.

    17. JSJay Shetty1:48:54

        And so what gives you courage when one side is so clear, and one side is not clear at all?

    18. EWEmma Watson1:49:01

        Again, I'm gonna tell the honest version of this story. I'd love to tell you that it was, like, this incredible courage and determination I have inside of me. And yes, there's, there's part of that. I'm not gonna, like, completely erase my role in all of this. But I think a big part was that it was coming to a point with my health and nervous system where I was starting to hit a point of not no return, but like ... It's interesting. I eat well, I do yoga, I do medi- I, I do all the things, right? But I think I was using those as a way of mitigating how much stress I was under, as opposed to actually what those things are really for, are compasses and points towards our truth. And I-

    19. JSJay Shetty1:49:59

        So wise.

    20. EWEmma Watson1:50:00

        [laughs] I was using them as a way of, like, bolstering-... myself and allowing myself to continue down a path that actually was kind of wrecking me. And I think it was just, like, my immune system couldn't pretend anymore. I was on seven or eight packets of an antibiotic every year because my immune system was so low that I would just constantly be getting a s- I would- I'd just constantly be getting sick, and a sinus infection, and whatever else. Like-

    21. JSJay Shetty1:50:32

        I had no idea

    22. EWEmma Watson1:50:32

        ... my body just started being like, "No." I went from being someone who I would say I still handle stress and pressure well, and I, and in the moment I could always do it, but the cost afterwards was starting to get more and more serious, to the point where it was like I'd always turn down... Oh, I actually remember I was in my early 20s when a publicist first offered me a beta blocker. I was nervous before a carpet, and it's the only ever time I ever took anything. And I was fine for the two hours after I took it, and then I got back to the room, and when my feelings came back to me, I was, like, overwrought with grief and feeling of, of having blocked it. And so I'd, I'd always, a- and after that, I, I never allowed anyone to give me anything again, even though I was offered things multiple times, and doctors wanting to give me things for jet lag, and for sleep, and for nerves, and, "Oh, everyone takes it. This is, you know, there's no shame in this," or whatever. But I just,

27. 1:51:44 – 1:56:45

    What Did It Really Take to Step Away?

    1. EWEmma Watson1:51:45

       I felt like in order to keep going, I was gonna have to make a decision of, like, are you okay with being low level, unwell, and medicated, essentially. And I just knew that wasn't a choice for me. So in a way, I have my body to thank, because my body just, I didn't want to ignore my body anymore, and it didn't matter how many silent retreats I went on, or how much yoga I did, or [laughs] what, like, what new thing I did to try and take care of myself. It, my body was done. And that was then, I think, when I went away and found a relationship with myself and my practice and, and just having trust and faith in a way that I never had before. And I started listening more carefully to, like, these little whispers of, like, "Oh," like, "maybe this should be the thing you do," or, like, even coming and doing this, of like, "I think you should go and do this podca-" Just listening to myself for clues, basically, and listening to [laughs] the universe, whatever that means. But I never had that before. I never had-- I never knew how to listen for those things before I truly went away and had nothing for a while. So that was probably the, the best result of, of all of that.

    2. JSJay Shetty1:53:11

       Yeah. And I, and I think it still takes so much courage, because-

    3. EWEmma Watson1:53:15

       [laughs]

    4. JSJay Shetty1:53:15

       ... it does, even though you didn't see it that way, and you-

    5. EWEmma Watson1:53:18

       Mm

    6. JSJay Shetty1:53:18

       ... may not have noticed it, it still takes so much courage to listen to your body-

    7. EWEmma Watson1:53:22

       Mm. Yeah

    8. JSJay Shetty1:53:23

       ... because it is easy to keep medicating in all the ways to, to-

    9. EWEmma Watson1:53:27

       Yeah

    10. JSJay Shetty1:53:27

        ... break it anyway.

    11. EWEmma Watson1:53:29

        Yeah.

    12. JSJay Shetty1:53:29

        And to, to push it to the edges and the limits of its ability, and because you're so addicted or intoxicated by the success or whatever it may be.

    13. EWEmma Watson1:53:40

        I guess the courageous part was just knowing I didn't wanna numb out. That was the point at which it got too big of a cost, was I was like, "Okay, if I feel like I need to be... I'm at the point where the price is too high now."

    14. JSJay Shetty1:53:53

        Mm. Yeah, I loved what you said about when they're meant to be compass to our truth and not, like, this Band-Aid pacification of, and-

    15. EWEmma Watson1:54:03

        I've been highly, really effectively using those Band-Aids. They will carry you far. Like, I had a lot of practice. But-

    16. JSJay Shetty1:54:09

        I think that's how they're presented now, too.

    17. EWEmma Watson1:54:10

        Yeah.

    18. JSJay Shetty1:54:11

        Like, it's become-

    19. EWEmma Watson1:54:12

        But they're not

    20. JSJay Shetty1:54:12

        ... this, and-

    21. EWEmma Watson1:54:13

        Yeah

    22. JSJay Shetty1:54:13

        ... and that's why when you said that, I think you, it's almost like, I'm trying to think of a, a, a good metaphor, but the one that's coming to my mind, it's almost like driving to the grocery store in a sports car, and it's like a sports car's made for this high-speed track. Like, that's what it's for.

    23. EWEmma Watson1:54:28

        Yep.

    24. JSJay Shetty1:54:28

        But you're using it just to drive 25 miles an hour-

    25. EWEmma Watson1:54:32

        Yeah

    26. JSJay Shetty1:54:32

        ... to the grocery store, and it's like-

    27. EWEmma Watson1:54:33

        Yeah

    28. JSJay Shetty1:54:33

        ... well, no, it's, it has so much more capability and-

    29. EWEmma Watson1:54:36

        Mm

    30. JSJay Shetty1:54:37

        ... ability to take you somewhere-
28. 1:56:45 – 2:00:21

    Learning to Trust Your Inner Voice

    1. EWEmma Watson1:56:45

       a rollercoaster.

    2. JSJay Shetty1:56:46

       Anything you wanna share about it? No, I don't wanna-

    3. EWEmma Watson1:56:47

       I mean, sure, yeah. I, I don't wanna bore you to death, but-

    4. JSJay Shetty1:56:49

       No, you're not

    5. EWEmma Watson1:56:49

       ... I mean, I think what was funny-

    6. JSJay Shetty1:56:50

       You're boring me

    7. EWEmma Watson1:56:51

       ... was, like, I, I have this picture that I drew of day, day two, and it's, like, green and pink, and there's butterflies on it, and it literally says, I think it says, this is so embarrassing. It says, "I am beautiful." [laughs] So embarrassing.

    8. JSJay Shetty1:57:06

       Don't go back.

    9. EWEmma Watson1:57:07

       I just felt like in... I was like, "Oh, my God. This is bliss." I was, like, riding this wave of, like, meditation ecstasy, basically. Whatever dopamine hit I was getting from that was wild. I just felt unbelievable. And then I surfed that wave straight into some kind of, like, brick wall of, oh, my God, like, all the things in life that you think are outside of you actually live inside you. And so even when you're, like, in this beautiful place on this gorgeous meditation retreat with all of these, like-

    10. JSJay Shetty1:57:40

        [laughs]

    11. EWEmma Watson1:57:40

        ... wonderful, enlightened people, everything starts to drive you crazy. And even the, like, salt shaker and the pepper pot in front of you start to take on the shapes of your real life, and you realize that your mind just starts creating all this drama for you, even though there's nothing going on, literally. And it was just, it was such a wild experience to kind of sit there and be like, "Oh, my God. I'm the one [laughs] creating all of my own drama. This is a nightmare."

    12. JSJay Shetty1:58:11

        [laughs]

    13. EWEmma Watson1:58:11

        "It's me. It's me. I'm the problem." And, um-

    14. JSJay Shetty1:58:15

        [laughs]

    15. EWEmma Watson1:58:15

        ... I was like, "I can't stay here. I can't do this. This is way too hard. Living with myself and my own thoughts is gonna dri- this is unbearable. I, I can't do this." That was a really big learning, and one I have to remember all the time is, like, I as a perfectionist, which, again, is a, is a kind of violence on yourself, I would try to, like, shame and blame myself into, and, like, kind of shake myself up, and, and give myself these kinds of, like, talkings to, to make myself do stuff. And sometimes, to be honest with you, they work in the short term, and in the long term they fail you miserably.

    16. JSJay Shetty1:58:54

        Mm-hmm.

    17. EWEmma Watson1:58:54

        Like, they just do not work. I-- the only way that I have learned to change my patterns, to show up for myself better, to change in the ways I want to change and grow, is to be loving towards myself.

    18. JSJay Shetty1:59:09

        Mm-hmm.

    19. EWEmma Watson1:59:10

        So getting to be in the room with that person at that moment was a massive gift.

    20. JSJay Shetty1:59:17

        That's amazing. I love it how someone that you can attend a class with can become such a big teacher for you when you allow it to be, and-

    21. EWEmma Watson1:59:24

        Yeah

    22. JSJay Shetty1:59:24

        ... you know, someone who wasn't the leader or the guide of the group can, can have such an impact on you.

    23. EWEmma Watson1:59:29

        Yeah.

    24. JSJay Shetty1:59:29

        Did you wanna t- speaking of my love-

    25. EWEmma Watson1:59:30

        Yeah

    26. JSJay Shetty1:59:30

        ... did you wanna share the, is it the practice that you went through recently with... Is that what you-

    27. EWEmma Watson1:59:35

        Oh.

    28. JSJay Shetty1:59:35

        The, yeah.

    29. EWEmma Watson1:59:36

        The, the ring.

    30. JSJay Shetty1:59:36

        Yeah, the ring.
29. 2:00:21 – 2:05:45

    Loving Yourself Without Judgment

    1. EWEmma Watson2:00:21

       petals on it, and each of them bought one. And I've just never owned anything so valuable in my life because I, I-- to me, it represents the life that I've built, which was the one that I really wanted, which was one that was made up of community, and my roots, and faith, and trust. And in some funny way, it signals to me that even though I have no outward signs [laughs] of my success, save for this crazy one-woman play I've written, I don't even have my degree yet, um, it signals to me that, for me, achieved what I wanted to achieve for myself.

    2. JSJay Shetty2:01:08

       Wow.

    3. EWEmma Watson2:01:10

       So that's pretty cool. And I love that every time I look down at my finger, I can, like, see all of the faces of the people who bought it for me.

    4. JSJay Shetty2:01:17

       Mm-hmm.

    5. EWEmma Watson2:01:18

       You're amazing at holding space. You're so kind. The amount of people who've probably sat in this chair and been as emotional as I have, and you don't turn away, it's amazing.

    6. JSJay Shetty2:01:28

       It's easy with you.

    7. EWEmma Watson2:01:30

       That's very kind. Thank you.

    8. JSJay Shetty2:01:32

       It's really easy because it's really heartfelt, and you've shared so much of me before today and today that I felt like you shared, you created that space for me to sit with you, before today and today. Yeah.

    9. EWEmma Watson2:01:46

       Wow.

    10. JSJay Shetty2:01:47

        What makes a real friend? So you said you had 22 f- 22?

    11. EWEmma Watson2:01:52

        22, yeah.

    12. JSJay Shetty2:01:53

        22 friends.

    13. EWEmma Watson2:01:54

        22.

    14. JSJay Shetty2:01:54

        What, what, what defines a good friend for you?

    15. EWEmma Watson2:01:57

        Oh my God. For me, [laughs] I've never killed anyone in my life, and I have no intention of killing anyone. [laughs] But, like, it's the person who you can call when you're like, that would help you carry the dead body across the floor.

    16. JSJay Shetty2:02:09

        [laughs]

    17. EWEmma Watson2:02:09

        You know what I mean? You're like, the person you call, you're like, "Shit, I think I've done this thing, and I need you to, like, either tell me I'm crazy or tell me I'm not crazy, or tell me the truth-

    18. JSJay Shetty2:02:20

        [laughs]

    19. EWEmma Watson2:02:20

        ... or help me fix it, or I don't know." That, I think it's like-

    20. JSJay Shetty2:02:24

        [laughs]

    21. EWEmma Watson2:02:24

        ... the people that-God, it's the people that you just, like, do not have to have airs and graces with, and who you can just be like, "This just happened, and it's such a disaster." And yeah, and I, I don't know. People, I think also who can handle your truths, your real truths and vulnerabilities, like they're sacred and with care, I think that's been very important for me. Because I think maybe part of my bravado is I'll, I'll make a joke of or I'll be brave about things I don't feel very brave about, and it takes someone who knows me quite well to go, "She's making a joke about this-

    22. JSJay Shetty2:03:08

        Yeah

    23. EWEmma Watson2:03:09

        ... but she's, like-

    24. JSJay Shetty2:03:09

        Stop this

    25. EWEmma Watson2:03:11

        ... actually dying inside. [laughs]

    26. JSJay Shetty2:03:12

        [laughs]

    27. EWEmma Watson2:03:12

        And I kind of know that, and, like, I'm gonna hold her through it. Yeah, I think real friends are the ones when you're in a really tight corner, and not just that will, like, show up begrudgingly, but be like, "What are we dealing with today?" And, like, maybe will enjoy that or see that as, like, an honor and a, and a privilege, actually. I think that's been a big learning for me, and it's an honor and a gift when someone asks you for help or when they need you. And I think I used to feel really embarrassed about needing anything from anyone-

    28. JSJay Shetty2:03:46

        Mm

    29. EWEmma Watson2:03:46

        ... or asking for help. I used to see it as, like, a great shame, like a, something I was really embarrassed to do. And now I see it as, like, I guess, like, knowing how I feel when someone asks me for help that I really love, and how amazing it feels to be able to be there for someone else. I try to remind myself that when I'm feeling like I couldn't possibly burden someone else with something, I remind myself, "Emma, do you remember how good it felt that someone, like, asked you to show up for them, and that you got to be there for them at their worst or darkest?" And so I think coming to understand, like, I think I also confused codependency or, like, I don't know. I, I didn't, we are so interdependent as a species and, [laughs] and, and, like, we, we, there's no shame in, in needing and wanting-

    30. JSJay Shetty2:04:44

        Mm-hmm
30. 2:05:45 – 2:08:00

    Finding Acceptance in Community

    1. JSJay Shetty2:05:45

       Well, I realized that I shouldn't have said that years ago, but then a couple of months ago, my wife said to me, she goes, "You're my calm," like, "You calm my nervous system."

    2. EWEmma Watson2:05:53

       Mm.

    3. JSJay Shetty2:05:54

       And I was like, "You're my joy." Like, "You bring joy to every part of my life."

    4. EWEmma Watson2:05:56

       [laughs]

    5. JSJay Shetty2:05:56

       And it was like that exchange was so needed and so powerful-

    6. EWEmma Watson2:06:01

       Mm

    7. JSJay Shetty2:06:01

       ... after having, for so long, feeling like, oh, I have everything I need anyway, and I do. I-

    8. EWEmma Watson2:06:05

       Yeah

    9. JSJay Shetty2:06:06

       ... I genuinely believe that. But it's what you said, is that we're indep- interdependent for a reason.

    10. EWEmma Watson2:06:11

        Yes. We co-regulate.

    11. JSJay Shetty2:06:12

        And it's like, yeah, my wife make, adds so much. It's like saying I don't need salt added on to this meal, and like the meal's great.

    12. EWEmma Watson2:06:19

        Yeah.

    13. JSJay Shetty2:06:19

        And it's like I don't need any more salt, and it's like, well, now, if you add a little bit of salt, it would make it a bit better.

    14. EWEmma Watson2:06:23

        Way better. [laughs]

    15. JSJay Shetty2:06:24

        It'd be way better, and it's like-

    16. EWEmma Watson2:06:25

        True

    17. JSJay Shetty2:06:25

        ... and, and we kind of live in that life of like, oh, I don't wanna add anything to this, and it's, it's almost a defense mechanism-

    18. EWEmma Watson2:06:31

        Mm. Mm

    19. JSJay Shetty2:06:32

        ... because we're so scared that there may not be-

    20. EWEmma Watson2:06:34

        Yeah

    21. JSJay Shetty2:06:34

        ... someone to add.

    22. EWEmma Watson2:06:35

        Oh my God. I think that-

    23. JSJay Shetty2:06:37

        And, and I've lived there, so I, that-

    24. EWEmma Watson2:06:38

        Ugh

    25. JSJay Shetty2:06:38

        ... yeah, that resonated very strongly.

    26. EWEmma Watson2:06:40

        I think that was the, one of the other gifts, actually, of getting to a point where, 'cause I used to be this, like, I'm so tough and independent-

    27. JSJay Shetty2:06:48

        [laughs] Yeah

    28. EWEmma Watson2:06:48

        ... and I can do anything person. And being at the point where I was like, "Oh, shit, I actually think I'm, like, not okay," and my body forcing me to ask other people for help was the biggest gift of my life. Because it brought me so much closer to other people, and I learnt that not only is it not a burden, it's genuinely, yeah, a privilege and a gift sometimes to, to have someone ask you that, ask you that question or, like, be honest about the ways that they need you, and it's crazy how long it takes us to learn these things. [laughs]

    29. JSJay Shetty2:07:29

        Yeah, absolutely.

    30. EWEmma Watson2:07:30

        Yeah. Yeah.
31. 2:08:00 – 2:13:58

    What Makes a Real Friend?

    1. EWEmma Watson2:08:00

       know you want to show up as a full, integrated whole self, and not compartmentalize and split and fragment yourself in a way that keeps you safe. And that compartmentalization did keep me safe and felt very necessary for a long time, because I was trying to keep some walls up where I could nurture myself and learn and grow, and then be ready to share those pieces. But I think it's probably figuring outHow to avoid the pieces that I know aren't good for me and that are genuinely just toxic, but to, yeah, have the courage to show up now in whatever form that is, and trust again, whether that's a person or it's making something or it's kind of, okay, have you learned enough that you can integrate and, and share-

    2. JSJay Shetty2:09:10

       Mm

    3. EWEmma Watson2:09:10

       ... now that you've done this inner work on your own?

    4. JSJay Shetty2:09:14

       Yeah. And that feels, that resonates.

    5. EWEmma Watson2:09:17

       Okay, good. [laughs]

    6. JSJay Shetty2:09:17

       Yeah, yeah. It's hard, it's hard to, it's hard to verbalize. It, it's almost like it is that you've been private for so long-

    7. EWEmma Watson2:09:25

       Yeah, yeah

    8. JSJay Shetty2:09:26

       ... and you've been working in private on-

    9. EWEmma Watson2:09:28

       Yes

    10. JSJay Shetty2:09:29

        ... your fascinations, your curiosities, your friends, your inner work, and then to actually come out and talk about-

    11. EWEmma Watson2:09:35

        Yes

    12. JSJay Shetty2:09:35

        ... what that period has been like publicly-

    13. EWEmma Watson2:09:38

        Yeah

    14. JSJay Shetty2:09:38

        ... is, is something you can keep pushing off and-

    15. EWEmma Watson2:09:41

        Mm

    16. JSJay Shetty2:09:41

        ... and-

    17. EWEmma Watson2:09:42

        And maybe the, how that ties into partnership is that I've realized actually that some of the people I've been attracting on the dating front think they're dating some previous version of me who I'm, who still exists in some ways, but who isn't actually who I am now. And I realized, I was like, "Oh, like, I'm still getting sent people who, like, are seeing someone who was part of the picture but, but not the whole picture." And it's starting to feel uncomfortable to not feel like I'm telling this part of the story, if that makes sense.

    18. JSJay Shetty2:10:28

        Mm. It's even hard for you to be like, "Well, these are the parts that are still there, and these are the..." Like it's not-

    19. EWEmma Watson2:10:33

        Yeah, yeah. No, I know. [laughs]

    20. JSJay Shetty2:10:34

        It's not a-

    21. EWEmma Watson2:10:35

        Yeah

    22. JSJay Shetty2:10:35

        ... didactic process of like-

    23. EWEmma Watson2:10:37

        No, no

    24. JSJay Shetty2:10:38

        ... it's not a equation where you can go, "Well, these are the parts that I've kept."

    25. EWEmma Watson2:10:41

        Yeah.

    26. JSJay Shetty2:10:41

        "These are the parts that are not..." Like, it doesn't work like that.

    27. EWEmma Watson2:10:44

        No, it doesn't work like that. It doesn't work like that. But I'm still getting requests that want to drag me a little bit more into a version of myself who was great and she was doing great stuff, but I think there's a part of me now that really feels like being able to speak to you one-on-one in this kind of setting as opposed to what I used to do, which would be an enormous audience, and there'd be, like, 300 people there, and, like, of course there's intimacy you can find in a room like that. But, like, the truth is it's really difficult to find the kind of depth and the kind of connections that I know are the ones that nourish me personally, and that's, it's different for everyone, but that just aren't allowing me to have the thing that I know there's the real thing that I'm actually seeking.

    28. JSJay Shetty2:11:35

        Mm.

    29. EWEmma Watson2:11:35

        And what I used to go into lots of other environments seeking and thinking I'd be able to get and keep, and just not, not being able to find.

    30. JSJay Shetty2:11:41

        Mm. Emma, something I wanted to ask you about that's difficult and challenging because it's something you spoke about earlier as to being such a big part of your life, an important part of your life, but recently there's been so many conversations and comments directly from J.K. Rowling, whether it's her saying she'd never forgive you for your views, or the fact that when she was asked what ruins the movies for her, she named yourself and some of your co-stars. And I imagine that's an extremely difficult thing when you've been a part of someone's world, when you've felt connected to their work, and then for it now to kind of be a full 180, and for someone to publicly say these things that can be quite, or extremely hurtful actually. How do you think about that?
32. 2:13:58 – 2:32:20

    What Work Are You Avoiding?

    1. EWEmma Watson2:13:58

       and that those are really important, and that [sighs] I don't know. I guess where I've landed is it's not so much what we say or what we believe, but very often how we say it that's really important, and that's really frustrating and not what you want to hear when you're really angry and upset with someone. Um, but I don't know. I just see this world right now where we seem to be giving permission for this kind of like-Throwing out of people or that people are disposable, and I, I just think that's, I will always think that's wrong. I, I always, I just believe that no one is, no one, no one's disposable.

    2. JSJay Shetty2:14:55

       Mm-hmm.

    3. EWEmma Watson2:14:56

       And everyone, as far as possible, whatever the conversation is, should and can be treated with, at the very least, dignity and respect.

    4. JSJay Shetty2:15:08

       Mm-hmm. Thank you for challenging us and-

    5. EWEmma Watson2:15:12

       [laughs]

    6. JSJay Shetty2:15:13

       ... pushing that. Yeah, the, it takes a lot to... I think that's what we're all being challenged to do, is try and hold two truths at once, and-

    7. EWEmma Watson2:15:19

       Yes

    8. JSJay Shetty2:15:19

       ... those two truths don't have to be complementary, but they-

    9. EWEmma Watson2:15:23

       No

    10. JSJay Shetty2:15:23

        ... they can stand at the same time.

    11. EWEmma Watson2:15:25

        Can honor.

    12. JSJay Shetty2:15:25

        Yeah.

    13. EWEmma Watson2:15:26

        I think the thing I'm most upset about is that a conversation was never made possible.

    14. JSJay Shetty2:15:33

        So you remain open for that dialogue.

    15. EWEmma Watson2:15:36

        Yeah, and I always will. I believe in that. I believe in that completely. Um, I believe in that-

    16. JSJay Shetty2:15:46

        Mm-hmm

    17. EWEmma Watson2:15:46

        ... completely. I just don't, yeah, I just don't want to say anything that, like, continues to weaponize a really, like, toxic debate and conversation.

    18. JSJay Shetty2:15:56

        Mm-hmm.

    19. EWEmma Watson2:15:57

        Which is maybe why I, I don't, well, it is why I don't comment or, like, continue to comment.

    20. JSJay Shetty2:16:06

        Yeah.

    21. EWEmma Watson2:16:06

        Not because I don't care about her or about the issue, but because I just, the way that the conversation is being had-

    22. JSJay Shetty2:16:13

        Yeah

    23. EWEmma Watson2:16:14

        ... feels really painful to me. And so that's why, that's why that decision.

    24. JSJay Shetty2:16:22

        Yeah. I really, I really appreciate that mindset and deeply, deeply feel like if people are challenged to go there themselves-

    25. EWEmma Watson2:16:32

        Mm.

    26. JSJay Shetty2:16:32

        Like, it takes a lot to think that way-

    27. EWEmma Watson2:16:34

        Yes

    28. JSJay Shetty2:16:34

        ... and feel that way.

    29. EWEmma Watson2:16:36

        Yes.

    30. JSJay Shetty2:16:36

        But it's, it's what, it's what healing really requires across, you know, around the world, and I can't imagine how many young people who look up to you and people who look up to you will feel the same way to-
33. 2:32:20 – 2:44:01

    Honoring the People Who Shape Us

    1. JSJay Shetty2:32:20

       one law that everyone in the world had to follow-

    2. EWEmma Watson2:32:22

       [gasps]

    3. JSJay Shetty2:32:22

       ... what would it be?

    4. EWEmma Watson2:32:26

       Oh, wow. One law. Okay, there's a couple of contenders. I'm gonna run you through them.

    5. JSJay Shetty2:32:34

       [laughs]

    6. EWEmma Watson2:32:35

       One is gonna be-

    7. JSJay Shetty2:32:36

       We'll vote on them. [laughs]

    8. EWEmma Watson2:32:37

       Okay, great. Perfect. One would be around the importance of telling the truth or, like, speaking your truth or just because I feel like [laughs] so much, so much chaos is caused by people not being sure whether or not they should, or it's a good idea to, or-I think that would be a pretty amazing one. Uh, another contender, I mean, it's o- the obvious one is treat other people as you would like to be treated.

    9. JSJay Shetty2:33:05

       Mm-hmm.

    10. EWEmma Watson2:33:06

        That would obviously solve a lot of problems as well. [laughs]

    11. JSJay Shetty2:33:08

        [laughs] I like that one you gave.

    12. EWEmma Watson2:33:10

        The last one?

    13. JSJay Shetty2:33:11

        Yeah, the first one, the first one, the first-

    14. EWEmma Watson2:33:12

        Oh, the first one

    15. JSJay Shetty2:33:13

        ... the truth one. Yeah

    16. EWEmma Watson2:33:13

        Yeah, the truth. Yeah. I guess it took me a long time, and probably, probably through doing my yoga teacher training, is speaking truth with kindness is one of the first Niyamas, right?

    17. JSJay Shetty2:33:25

        Mm-hmm.

    18. EWEmma Watson2:33:26

        Very disappointed I can't remember what the word is in-

    19. JSJay Shetty2:33:29

        Not Sattva?

    20. EWEmma Watson2:33:30

        Maybe, yeah.

    21. JSJay Shetty2:33:31

        Yeah.

    22. EWEmma Watson2:33:31

        Speaking the truth with ki- like, speaking the truth-

    23. JSJay Shetty2:33:32

        Yeah

    24. EWEmma Watson2:33:32

        ... with kindness.

    25. JSJay Shetty2:33:33

        Trying to think of the exact one, actually.

    26. EWEmma Watson2:33:33

        There's an amazing, there's an amazing quote, which actually is- was given to me recently by a friend, which is, like, "The truth, the truth without kindness is brutality, and kindness without truth is manipulation."

    27. JSJay Shetty2:33:51

        Say that again.

    28. EWEmma Watson2:33:52

        Truth without kindness is brutality, and kindness without truth is manipulation. And so when I say, like, tell your truth, I don't mean going around, like, [laughs] just being awful to everyone.

    29. JSJay Shetty2:34:05

        Yeah.

    30. EWEmma Watson2:34:05

        I mean, like, telling the microscopic truth, and, like, having those, being willing to have a tolerance for those conversations. One of my favorite metaphors, I actually wrote about this recently, for being in a relationship [laughs] with anyone is, like, you're in... It's, in a way it's, it's a dance, it's a fight. Like, I think about boxing in the sense of, like, who is gonna go down to the mat with you and, like, not tap out.

Episode duration: 2:38:14