Jay Shetty PodcastHAYDEN PANETTIERE Tells Her Truth For The First Time Ever (Custody, Addiction, Fame, Hollywood)
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
100 min read · 19,776 words- 0:00 – 2:10
Intro
- HPHayden Panettiere
[birds chirping] [dramatic music] I worked so hard to create this incredible life and career, and I burnt it all to the ground. Don't believe what you see in a picture. There's so much more going on. So much more. For the first time, I was able to put into words what has been going on for the past decade. I was gonna ask if I could read it.
- JSJay Shetty
I'd really appreciate that.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Okay. [dramatic sound]
- JSJay Shetty
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier, and more healed. Today's guest is one of those stories that I believe allows so many of us to understand more deeply, to expand our compassion, to recognize the value of what we all go through behind the scenes when you actually live a very public life, a life that we think we know, but we know very, very little about. Today, I am joined by Hayden Panettiere, an actress so many of us grew up watching, whose career spanned more than three decades. From one of my favorites, Remember the Titans, to becoming a global star on Heroes and earning two Golden Globe nominations for her role on Nashville. Now, for the first time, Hayden is sitting down to share her story in her own words. In her powerful new memoir that I got to read beforehand, This Is Me: A Reckoning. Please welcome to On Purpose, Hayden Panettiere. Hayden, uh, welcome to the show. Thank you for being here.
- HPHayden Panettiere
It's an honor to be here.
- JSJay Shetty
I wanna start by just saying that when I read the book, I can't imagine how challenging, difficult, and vulnerable you had to be to even begin to capture the amount of life that you've lived in these 36 years, and I just wanna acknowledge the courage and strength that I saw in it when I was reading it. And I was so looking forward to our conversation today because I really wanted to learn about the human behind these words, but also behind the headlines and the
- 2:10 – 3:31
A Childhood Memory That Shaped Your Strength
- JSJay Shetty
news that we've seen. I wanted to start off by asking you, what's a childhood memory that you have that you feel defines who you are today?
- HPHayden Panettiere
God. Got a laundry list I can, I can think of off the top of my head, but really defines who I am. I think I've been, I've been really impacted by the people that I've gotten to work with, and especially when I was at v- very sensitive ages. Like when I think back to Remember the Titans, as you said, at 10 years old, that experience, that whole experience, everyone on set, it... And playing that character of Sheryl that felt so similar to who I was naturally as a person. I felt like that really shaped me, really shaped my, uh, perspective of the industry, made me feel like now I know what kind of actor I wanna be. I wanna be generous and I wanna be there for people, but this can, this can also be fun.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, absolutely. I, I wanted to read from your book, if that's all right. You-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah, of course
- JSJay Shetty
... you say in the book that, "From a very young age, I lost the chance to have a normal childhood-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... friends, relationships-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... and my privacy because instead of fighting it, I leaned into the talent I was somehow blessed with." And I wanted to ask
- 3:31 – 5:22
Realizing Your Childhood Wasn’t “Normal”
- JSJay Shetty
you, like, what do you think a normal childhood looked like, and how was yours different from that?
- HPHayden Panettiere
Well, to me, a, a normal childhood looked like extracurricular activities. It looked like doing, you know, going to school, being in school all day long, um, having a social life and connection with your peers. You know, going home, doing homework, having play dates, having friends over, um, having those kind of experiences. And even though I did get some of that, because I had to live that life and had to be removed from it all the time, whether it was to go to auditions or to go to work, I constantly was missing out on the social aspect-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm
- HPHayden Panettiere
... of what was going on with my... I, I mean, I was trying to be friends with them, but, um, when you miss out, you, you know, then you sit, sit down, you really have nothing to talk about. Because I want... I only had my experience and what I did yesterday, which was I was on set or I was in the city doing an audition, and that wasn't something that I could expect anyone around me to understand. So I feel like I got a taste of what, I saw what a normal childhood would be, and I was on swim team, and I did do gymnastics and, um, you know, uh, occasionally I got invited to a birthday party. But, but a lot of the times I was, I was left out, so it didn't feel like I had a, a normal childhood, a normal upbringing. But to me it was, uh, yeah, just being able to be a kid.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. Did you recognize
- 5:22 – 8:27
Feeling Too Much While Trying to Find Where You Belong
- JSJay Shetty
that then? Like-
- HPHayden Panettiere
I did. I remember school was very, um, tricky for me because here I was trying to fit into two different worlds and, and I was dealing with this, this massive world, which is the industry, and dealing with big emotions, like what you feel after rejection or not getting a role or a ridiculous amount of praise, an unhealthy amount of praise that you get at too young of an age. And then I had the world that I was desperately trying to fit into as well, that I was supposed to fit into, that it should've been easy to fit into, and I couldn't fit into that either. So I was likeWhere do I belong?
- JSJay Shetty
Mm. Yeah, it's hard when you're caught in between two different worlds, and you somehow, as a very young child, have to somehow make it look seamless and move through these worlds-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... with taking emotions from this one into that-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... and that one into this, and-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah, and you don't want a- anyone to see you sweat-
- JSJay Shetty
Yes
- HPHayden Panettiere
... either. You wanna make it, you wanna be cool, calm, and collected, because being overly emotional around your peer, people that age, like my age, it doesn't go over well. And it doesn't go over well with adults either, so you have to, like, bottle up all of these emotions.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. Wow. Yeah, it almost feels like when you're with your kids your age, you're just trying to fit in and be cool-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... but you're dealing with these emotions you're carrying over, and then when you're with the adults, you're trying to make sure everyone's happy and-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... everything's going okay, and-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah, I feel like the first time I really felt like I didn't fit in, though, was actually when I was in kindergarten, and it was brought on by the teacher not liking me.
- JSJay Shetty
Oh.
- HPHayden Panettiere
The opinions of the teachers and the way that the adults saw me was rubbing off on the kids. Um, and I can only imagine what the kids' parents were saying about, you know, their children going to school with an actress at, at home. But yeah, I was bullied first by a teacher in kindergarten, and then it graduated to first grade was the first time I heard anyone say, uh, raise their hand and say, "Why does Hayden get to miss school and we don't?" And that was the first time I felt like, oh, they really, it bothers them-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm
- HPHayden Panettiere
... that what I do. And then middle school, which is treacherous as, for anybody, but especially as a female. Like, girls are just really hard on each other, and, uh, w- wouldn't help when the teacher would roll in a screen w- and say, "Hey, we're gonna watch a movie," during class, and everyone would get excited, and then they'd pop in Remember the Titans.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- HPHayden Panettiere
And there I was trying to fit in and just trying to find a seat next to somebody who wasn't rolling their eyes and, or huffing and puffing about having to sit next to me. I was just trying to blend, and then they were popping that on, a- and I was just like, "Is this even legal? Like-
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- HPHayden Panettiere
... can you do this to a kid?"
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, yeah.
- HPHayden Panettiere
"Is this child abuse?"
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- 8:27 – 11:36
Turning Early Bullying into Inner Strength
- JSJay Shetty
Was it ever clear what the reason the teacher who bullied you was, or did they ever have any interactions with your family or...?
- HPHayden Panettiere
No. I mean, it f- first of all, kindergarten is way too young to really have, do anything wrong. I mean, I remember when-
- JSJay Shetty
Oh, 100%, yeah
- HPHayden Panettiere
... the first time sh- she ever bullied me was the very first day of kindergarten, and we were coloring, and they were, had the color, the crayons in these wet wipe, the, well, wet wipe boxes. And they said, "You know, wrap it up. Everybody close the boxes." And as being, being kids, you know, it became a little bit of a race of who's gonna close it first, and I went to close one, and g- another girl went to close it at the same time, and it went on her finger.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- HPHayden Panettiere
And I apologized profusely and felt horrible about it, and I remember her best friend walked up and said, "Yeah, but we have to tell on you." And my heart sank, and I didn't know how it was gonna go, and they walked up to the teacher and, and told her, and I looked at her and I said, "It was an accident." And she looked right at me and she said, "Oh, it doesn't look like an accident to me."
- JSJay Shetty
Wow.
- HPHayden Panettiere
And I mean, at such a young age for that to, like, that stuck with me, you know, all of these years later. Not all of my teachers were like that. There were teachers that were super supportive, but there was a, a substitute teacher who came and she would call me the big cheese in front of everyone. She, she said, "What, you think because you're an actress, you th- you're the big cheese?"
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- HPHayden Panettiere
And that's so not who I was, and so not who I wanted to be. So quite the experience trying to fit in. Disappointed in, in people. I really just, just wanted to, as you said, fit in.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- HPHayden Panettiere
I wanted to be normal.
- JSJay Shetty
Like every kid does.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Like every kid.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. Yeah, like all of us do, and as someone, by the way you described, yeah, I had, I had a very normal childhood, and it's hard enough as it is-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... even when it's-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... you know, normal. And so when something's making you stand out or someone's pointing things out, especially as kids when we don't have a clue what's going on, and all the other kids in your class who wouldn't really understand how-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... to make context of this, you need an adult to-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... kind of make sense of it.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah. And, and a lot of it I felt like came out of left field. I, I... One of the things I'm sure you read in the book is that I kept the notes that were passed to me-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm
- HPHayden Panettiere
... in school, the nasty n- notes, and I kept them in my binder, and I kept them under my bed. And I think it was because I wanted to desperately to understand what they were seeing in me, and, and it started the habit of changing who I was to make others happy, to make them like me. And I thought if I could understand where they were coming from or what they saw or what they didn't like, that I could, maybe it was the actress in me and having been directed all my, my life, that I could, I could change my performance a little bit, and it would make them accept me.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. You also
- 11:36 – 14:19
Growing Up Before You Were Ready
- JSJay Shetty
had the, you've talked about having the pressure to support and provide for your family as well, right? Did you always know that that was your responsibility even then? Like, when you're talking about this idea of performing, making sure everyone else is okay-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Right
- JSJay Shetty
... I wonder how much of it was something you had to do at home as well.
- HPHayden Panettiere
I wanna make it clear that, I mean, my father was a lieutenant in the fire department, and he had businesses. So I wasn't supporting the family. But I do remember being, um, uh, very young, and my mom trying to explain to me that this incorporation that she set up, this corporation she set up paid for the cars, the lease on the cars, and theUh, cell phone bills because it was a tax write-off.
- JSJay Shetty
Right.
- HPHayden Panettiere
And I remember that role reversal being incredibly uncomfortable for me, where I was, you know, on one hand, I was still a kid and I was listening to my, my, my parents and had to do everything that they told me I could and could not do. But at the same time, I was working hard and making money, and this money was going towards things that I, I wasn't privy-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm
- HPHayden Panettiere
... to. So as my dad would kick my butt if, if, if I made people think that I s- like supported the whole family.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- HPHayden Panettiere
But then when I got older too, and I, I, my mom bought an apartment for me when I was 16 and my whole family lived in it. So again, it was just that very strange, uncomfortable feeling of the role reversal and desperately wanting to still feel like the kid and still feel like I had parents to, to lean on. I didn't want-- I, even when I was a kid, I was scared of the dark and my dad would, I would make my dad lay down next to me, and if his head ever went below mine, I would f- freak out and, and, and make him, you know, sit up further so I could, because I wanted to feel like the kid. That has kind of continued on in my, in my life, just wanting to know that if I found myself in a terrible position, that I could call somebody to, to help me. I could rely on somebody. I wasn't the only person, I wasn't the person that everybody else was relying on, and therefore nobody was there for me.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. I mean, and, and so natural, right? To want that and to seek that is so real and so natural-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... especially as a young child and kid. And then of course, with everything else that you're taking on, there's nothing about that that feels anything but what every child deserves and what every child wants and, you know-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... deeply is looking for. But
- 14:19 – 17:33
The Moment You Stop Living for Your Family’s Expectations
- JSJay Shetty
I know in the book you also write about how there's this sense of what you were just saying about collecting all these notes and not wanting to almost let the kids down and become who they need-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... you to be. It feels like that kind of became your relationship with your mom as well, where you didn't want to disappoint her.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Oh my gosh, that was my entire relationship with her. She was my boss. That's how I saw her. Even though she was the most supportive person when I, you know, did what I was supposed to do and did it, did it well and was the one cheering me on, it did feel like that was what I had to do to get her love. And that was, you know, a tough pill to swallow. I never-- Everything was business. Everything was business-focused, and there's not... I mean, I started at eight months old. There's, I, I, I don't even, I can't even remember a time where she wasn't a momager-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm
- HPHayden Panettiere
... you know, where everything didn't revolve around business. And there were periods of time as I got older where I, I, we spent a lot of time traveling and on the road together, and I was the only person there, so I became the confidant and the assistant and the therapist and the shoulder to cry on and everything but her child.
- JSJay Shetty
Have you ever had the opportunity to tell her that and to have that conversation with her?
- HPHayden Panettiere
When I was, uh, 19, I finally got the guts, uh, to, got up the courage to split from her as business-wise, because I desperately wanted a relationship with her, desperately wanted her to just be my mom. Um, and so she came into my trailer during lunch when we were filming Heroes, and, and I said to her, "I, I don't want us to work together anymore. I, I just want you to be my mom." And I remember being hopeful, but there was that part of me who knew her too well. But I, I also wasn't expecting the reaction that I got, which was, "You owe me." And that's all she said, and she walked out. And part of me was like, "Oh, I'm relieved that, that it was sh- it was short," like rip the Band-Aid off. But then it was like this, this dark looming cloud, you know, over my head going, "What does she mean by I owe her?"
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- HPHayden Panettiere
"What form of payment is she expecting?" And it was disappointing to find out that it was money and that she didn't pursue a re- a relationship with me as just a mother-daughter. Um, like once the business aspect was removed, I was, I was hoping that if I remove this, then she, that there will be no reason for her to be anything other than my, than my mom. And, um, and the fact that she, it seemed like she didn't want to have, didn't care to have that relationship with me was, uh, a tough pill to swallow.
- 17:33 – 21:56
Releasing the Need for Everyone’s Approval
- JSJay Shetty
As a child, I'm sure you were also, even as a teenager, you're still dealing with the guilt of like, "How do I have this conversation with my mom?"
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
Because I'm guessing there was a part of you that was of course grateful and of course-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Of course, yes
- JSJay Shetty
... of course, like, you know. But at the same time, I hear your intention loud and clear, which is, "I just want you to be my mom."
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
"And I don't want you to play another role in my life."
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And then to not get that other role, even when that part's taken care of, it, yeah. Do you still not connect or talk today?
- HPHayden Panettiere
At the moment, no, there, there is not a relationship between her and I, uh, sadly. Um, I've gone through periods of time where we just, we, we've haven't spoken at all. It seemed to me there, it was kind of like there was no reason, she had no reason to call, and the only reason why she would reach out was when something was, was needed. It wasn't just to say, you know, "Hi" or "How are you?" or "Let's grab a bite" or anything like that. It's been a, a really tough road, and I've, uh, y- no matter how many times that door has been slammed in my face-I've desperately seeked her approval my, for my entire life. You know, she was the person after every take that I looked to. I wouldn't look to- to the director or the producers or anybody else. The only person that existed and the only person that was, whose opinion mattered to me was hers. So after every take, no matter what I was doing, I would find her, and I'm f- I'm sure I made, you know, the directors feel like, like, "Hey," 'cause I would run right past them straight to Mom, and I had to make sure that I wasn't, that she was happy with it and I wasn't in trouble. Because if I didn't do it right, I was in trouble. Yeah. It was not a good, good reaction. But I mean, I've lived to, to please her and, and, um, and even though, as I said, as you said, you know, I'm incredibly grateful. Here, here she's, she... And I've never had a conversation with her as to why she stopped acting and decided to focus her entire life on creating a career for me, and whether it was just that she felt like I was good at it, which is why she kept me in it, or if she wanted to live vicariously, or if she wanted to create a, a potentially successful future for me. I haven't gotten a chance to, to really talk with her, um, about that, but I'm very grateful for everything that I have. But it, it was just very confusing because I never asked for it, and that was the thing. Like, I wasn't-- I, there were times where things would get overwhelming, and I could tell they would get overwhelming for her, and she, she's a big personality. And, um, and I also felt very guilty about us having to spend so much time away from my father and her having to spend so much time away from her son, my little brother, who was growing up, and that it was because of me. It was because of what I was doing. Um, and it was, it was m- my fault. And I remember her actually turning to me one night and saying, "You're the reason why I'm missing my son growing up." And, uh, you know, that was a punch in-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm
- HPHayden Panettiere
... in the gut. But as grateful as I was, I wanted to say to her, "But I didn't ask you to, to take me on auditions. I didn't. I wasn't even, uh, e- uh, old enough to, y- you know, proceed, to, to understand anything but good, bad, hot, cold, diaper change, food," you know, that kind of stuff. So there were really high emotions. I loved what I did, and I had great experiences, but at the same time, I was like, "I, I didn't beg you to, to, to give me your, your life, to sacrifice all of this so that I could have this career."
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, it wasn't your dream. It wasn't your choice.
- HPHayden Panettiere
And I don't know if it would've been-
- JSJay Shetty
Sure
- HPHayden Panettiere
... eventually.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, yeah.
- HPHayden Panettiere
You know, I wondered that all
- 21:56 – 24:05
Meeting Your Real Self For the First Time
- HPHayden Panettiere
the time.
- JSJay Shetty
Talk to me about that, because even earlier when I read the excerpt from the book, you talk about this idea of acting being a talent that you just leaned into.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
Because it was a gift that you were given, and then you leaned into it. It's almost like you never got the opportunity to discover who you would've been.
- HPHayden Panettiere
I remember being about, I would say around probably 12 years old and having a total identity crisis. I mean, I was standing in my room, and I was, had been auditioning and, and acting for years, and I was sitting there going, "Well, who am I? Which part am I?" 'Cause, because I can be all of these different characters.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- HPHayden Panettiere
And I can find all these, these, these parts in, in me, and I can bec- I can become, you know, and I can bring out my, my fiercer side, or I, I can be more gentle. Whatever the character called for, and they all felt like parts of me. But who the heck was I, like, just w- without this? Who would I be if w- without this? So I was very aware of it, and I was very aware that it was going to have an impact on me when I was older, and I was very worried about that. I didn't talk to anybody about it, ever. I didn't think anybody would ever have an answer, I don't, you know, to it. But I was, I was like, "This is gonna screw you up as an adult. It's gonna rear its ugly head, and, and it's going to, and you're not gonna be able to make the connection between why a w- a certain behavior, why am I behaving like this as an adult. It's gonna be very difficult to find the connection to the childhood experience that caused that."
- JSJay Shetty
It's, it's a lot to take on so young.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
And, and hard to process and, yeah, hard to know where it, where it goes and, and, and how it moves forward with you in your life. It sounds like you were being reflective of this almost all the way. It doesn't feel like something that you've only done recently. It feels like at every stage-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... whether it was 12 or 19 when you finally-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah
- 24:05 – 27:22
Choosing Yourself and Finding Peace
- JSJay Shetty
... made the decision. Did you ever start to feel a sense of choice and agency and effect?
- HPHayden Panettiere
I'd grown up in, in a household where, you know, as much as I, I loved the g- the, the chaos of my f- [chuckles] of my family, uh, there was a lot of headbutting going on. So when I was 18, and Heroes was on, and we had all as a family, uh, moved out to LA, and we were living under the same roof in a, in a condo, um, with dogs and cats, and just we were in each other. We went from living, all living in a, a big house to livingIn very tight quarters. But as soon as I was 18, I was, I w- I went to my mom and I said, "I, I want, I wanna move out." Um, and I knew I needed to move out for my own mental and emotional health. I would say 18 was when I finally felt courageous enough to, uh, to communicate that and to, and to, you know, fi- start my, my own life.
- JSJay Shetty
Hmm. Yeah, and did that, did that come with a sense of, like, confidence and kind of enthusiasm that you had that? Or was it almost like a necessity of, like, "I just need to do this to survive"?
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah. No, it was, it was both. It was, it was, the idea was terrifying 'cause I'm a true pack animal. Like, I need people around me. If that's, it's arguably has the biggest impact on me mentally, emotionally, spiritually, which leads to ph- physically. Yes, it was survival. It was definitely survival. It was necessity. It was I need to get myself out of here, and it was, I carried a lot of guilt with me, leaving my little brother behind in what I could no longer tolerate. Um, and I was terrified to live alone. I didn't wanna be l- lonely. The, I didn't, I wanted people around me. I was still scared of the dark and didn't want to not have anybody to, you know, lay down next to me until I went to, to sleep, uh, to make sure that I was, I was safe. So it was exciting, but at the same time, I would say it was mu- it was more so necessity.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, as I was reading your book and learning more and more about you, it was almost like my empathy for you just, like, grew every time and, and I mean that in your strength, for your strength in these situations, not as a sense of pity or, or feeling sorry for you, but seeing just how strong you had to be in so many different situations. And, and this, when I got to this part, when you write about this in the book, you write about a moment in your career where a friend of yours takes you onto a boat. You're led to a room which has an older man in it, and then basically told to perform sexual acts and, you know.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Oh, yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And when I read that, I'm like, oh, gosh, like, not only have you felt like you've had a really unsupported, you know, upbringing, you're now with a friend in the industry and then ending up in a situation
- 27:22 – 31:48
Finding Strength When You Don’t Feel Safe
- JSJay Shetty
like this. Could you talk to me about what that moment does to your psyche when you're that-
- HPHayden Panettiere
I mean, the fact that I was 18, even though I'd lived such a huge life and I thought I was, oh, so mature at 18, you know, sc- scientifically, you know, our frontal lobes don't develop until we're what? 20, 26, 25, 26. So even though I felt like I could make healthy decisions, safe decisions, I wasn't capable of being fully aware of what was going on around me, and it wasn't until I found myself in predicaments that I realized, like, it, it, my, my, uh, perspective completely shifted, and I realized that I was in danger. But by the time I'd realized I was in danger, I was quite literally out to sea. And, um, and it was, it was, that mo- I mean, that moment shook me and was shocking. Um, and I was quite literally put, walked down, and I had been having a great time. There was n- no hints of anything like that happening, so it took me... I was, I was shocked. It took me by surprise. Um, and it was somebody, led by somebody that I had grown to trust and see as a protector and somebody who had my back, and to be walked down, you know, down the stairs, and it was, it was as, like a surprise, presented as, as though it was like a surprise. And it was this very small room, and she, she physically put me in the bed next to this, this undressed man who was very famous and, um, and had his hands like this, like, like this was just, you know, an average day for him. This is something that happens all the time. And I waited for her to leave, and I, I mean, that, that lion in me, that fire in me, that, that, uh, my, my h- hair stood on, on end, and I w- became ferocious. I was like, "This is not happening." But I had nowhere to hide, and I bolted, and I, I hid wherever I could think of to hide on, on a boat. On a boat. There was no jumping off and swimming away, and there was nobody who was going to... I realized that there was nobody who was going to be empathetic to my situation, that this was nothing new to them.
- JSJay Shetty
I mean, you know, that sounds, it's such a horrifying event to go through and to be put in that position at 18 years old.
- HPHayden Panettiere
And disappointing when somebody lets you down like that, and I'd been let down so much before and, and that when you really find somebody that you trust, like, you hold onto them for dear life, and you feel so lucky. So to be betrayed like that-
- JSJay Shetty
Hmm
- HPHayden Panettiere
... is just an awful feeling.
- JSJay Shetty
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- 31:48 – 34:45
Learning to Rise After Betrayal
- JSJay Shetty
How do you decide who you trust now?
- HPHayden Panettiere
It doesn't seem like I've done much of a very good job. [laughs] I don't think I- I've gotten much better at choosing on one hand, 'cause I do feel like I have-- there are certain people that I, uh, negative, with negative energy and that are just not good people, and that have been, I've, that have been drawn to me for whatever reason, and who I've not seen clearly, um, i-i-immediately. It t-took me a while. Like, they really were able to pull the wool over my eyes, which you would not ex- I didn't expect of myself, you know, having had all the exper- life experience that I have, and having had things like that ha- already happen to me. Like, you would think it would have been a learning experience, and it w- you know, I would've made sure that it never happened again, and unfortunately, that was, uh, not the case. But that being said, I have h- I, on the other hand, I have had amazing people in my life. I mean, my dad has been a h- huge support system for me since I was a kid. He was the safe space, um, and there's a lot of me in him. He, he is the person that kept me grounded and, and made me, you know, the good in me. I s- I got my big, big heart from, from him. But I have, throughout the years, been fortunate enough to meet just incredible people, and I do have a group of, of friends that are in- incredible people and incredibly loyal, and are genuinely, genuinely good. So there are just a few that have snuck, snuck in here and there.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. I think, uh, and I got to meet some of them today.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yes.
- JSJay Shetty
You know, your best friend who's with you and, and others who are, who are wonderful people, and, you know, great to see you surrounded by them. And I, I was sharing this with you as we were speaking before, that sometimes I feel that I think a lot of good people beat themselves up for attracting negative people around them. And the truth is, I don't think you attract negative people. I think when you get so big and large-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... in your work and your career, and you're exposed to so many people, you just come across more negative people because you're exposed to more. And you know, you don't-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Right
- JSJay Shetty
... like, if, if you're only exposed to your town or your community, whatever-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... maybe you'll come across a couple of people. But when you start getting exposed to a bigger industry and a bigger world-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Right. But ex- exposed is one thing, but then I, it, it's hard for me not to beat myself up over letting them get past-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm
- HPHayden Panettiere
... y- you know, my defenses.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Letting
- 34:45 – 37:46
Learning to Trust Yourself Again After Being Let Down
- HPHayden Panettiere
them get close to me, and for how long. Um, I have, you know, it's really, as I told you before, it's really important for me to have, to, to choose the, the people who are around me wi- wisely, and I have an incredible team of people who are, are not just great at what they do, but who are just, have become dear, dear, uh, friends and, and confidants and, and protectors, and I haven't always had that. Um, and I-- and they're not afraid to tell me the truth either, and that's a hugely important thing-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm
- HPHayden Panettiere
... um, for me. But it's hard to, to not beat myself up for, for certain people, you know, having access to my life that will not, should never have had access, should never have been a part of my life for many, many, many reasons.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. I feel like when you're young as well, from having spoken to quite a lot of young talent in the industry, it's, it's almost like you're hoping that the adults around you are making good choices. And you talk about in the book how you were actually given pills before a red carpet-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... to make you feel more confident, and how that planted the seeds for so many other-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... things that came in the future. And it, again, you're coming to a point where you're hoping the people around you, especially when you're young-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... to help you make better decisions, especially-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... when you start at as young as you did.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah. And the person who handed me those pills, I had already developed a very tight relationship and a bo- a great bond with them. So when it happened, it, I didn't see it as anything inappropriate or negative. I, I trusted this person, and this per- it was not, I didn't just have a great personal relationship with this person, but this person's job is, part, part of their job was to pr- always protect me. And so I was, I was so used to following the directions of the people that, uh, that I respected, the people that I worked with. If they told me to jump, I j- I jumped. If they told me to wear this, I wore that. You know? I, I trusted them more than I ever trusted myself.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- HPHayden Panettiere
I, I wasn't raised to trust myselfExcept for my instincts as a- an actor. That was instilled in me, but as a person, it was a completely different story.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm. And at the same time, you're getting this like, you know, huge wins. Like, you become one of the most, you know, well-known, popular young actors when you land Heroes and-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... it's this huge moment, and from the outside it just looks like an incredible accomplishment.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Right.
- JSJay Shetty
What's,
- 37:46 – 39:44
Staying Steady When Everything Around You Isn’t
- JSJay Shetty
what's going through your heart and mind when that happens in, in all emotions? What are you experiencing?
- HPHayden Panettiere
The success meant that I, my mom was gonna be happy with me, so that was, that was hugely, um, important. Um, it also meant that I fit in.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- HPHayden Panettiere
That I was-
- JSJay Shetty
You found your place.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yes, I found my place, that I was finally... Somebody accepted me and, and I was part of something that involved other people, and they became my, my, my crew, my group of friends. I finally f- felt like I fit in somewhere, and I finally f- felt like, my gosh, I made it. Like, I, I remember the first time I walked out of my apartment and paparazzi. I was about 16 years old and, um, and I had imagined y- younger, you know, getting to the place in my career where I would get paparazzi and, you know, I just think it'd be like, "Am I gonna do, like, um-"
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- HPHayden Panettiere
"... one of those?"
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Like, "No, don't take a picture of me."
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- HPHayden Panettiere
Like, uh, like, uh, it's gonna be one of those, like, [gasps] just like be perfectly-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. [laughs]
- HPHayden Panettiere
... you know, beautiful shots, and it was just sheer terror. I mean, the shot-
- JSJay Shetty
When you actually experienced
- HPHayden Panettiere
... like when I actually happened, I, I heard this clicking and I looked up and it was... I remember it feeling like I was looking down the barrel of a gun, and it was a guy sitting in his car with his window rolled down, and I, I was... I think it was walking my, my dogs, and I was horrified because I was like, "Oh, my gosh, that's not the l- the look that I expected to have that picture is of me looking terrified." Absolutely terrified and probably go something like that. That's not the shot you the f- first want. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs] Yeah, definitely not.
- HPHayden Panettiere
But that's what happened. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- HPHayden Panettiere
You can plan all you want and God laughs.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean,
- 39:44 – 44:48
The Cost of Living for Applause
- JSJay Shetty
but you, you talked about this, you said this at the start, this idea of just, like, how your life became used to living for applause, like having to get the applause from your mom and then the community, and then of course paparazzi, whatever, right? It's like you kinda see that trend.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Oh, yeah. And then it grows, and it grew, and it grew, and it went from something that was, like, kind of cool to something that was incredibly dangerous and incredibly invasive, and not just for me, but for the people around me. For y- I- it felt like the people around... Uh, like I wasn't safe. The people around me were, were being affected by it. Yeah, I was very protective of my, my little brother, fiercely protective of the people I love, period. And, um, and especially back then when I was 16 years old, it was a whole different ballgame. Like, like the paparazzi situation-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm
- HPHayden Panettiere
... was crossed lines that still blow my mind today, that they were, that, that were legal. They were able to do the things that were said, the way that they would box you in while you were driving. I remember coming out of a store once and it was, you know, o- o- one person saw me and suddenly it was over 100 outside and they kicked me. Um, I, I just felt this kick on the back of my leg, and I realized... And when I turned around, they had a camera in my face and I realized that that's, they were trying to get a reaction out of me. 'Cause I remember a very famous, successful publicist sat me down when I was, um, when I was young and I think when He- when Heroes was about to change my life permanently, and he knew this, and he sat me do- down and had a whole conversation with me about how to handle, um, paparazzi and how to keep your expressions, you know, kind of boring, if you, if you will. Um, but the lengths that people will go to get that shot and the things that they would say to me at such a young age were appalling. They were truly just, just mind-blowing and shocking, and it, it was just wildly dangerous. And I was like, "H- how, why?" Especially after Princess Diana, "How, how has this not changed?"
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- HPHayden Panettiere
"How has nobody stepped in and stopped this? This is crazy."
- JSJay Shetty
How did you cope? And like what did you do? How did you deal with all of that because that just seems overwhelming?
- HPHayden Panettiere
There was nothing to do. Like that was, that was, you feel completely-
- JSJay Shetty
Powerless
- HPHayden Panettiere
... helpless. Yes, powerless, helpless. Um, I would get in the car and I drove like, uh, bad out of H-E-double hockey sticks. Like I, I would, I was-- I became a NASCAR driver, and knock on wood, thank God nothing, nothing, nobody ever got hurt. But there was one time I was out trying to outrun them in a rental car, and I was going so fast down a street that I had to make a quick right turn. I hit my brakes, and instead of the car stopping, it just went for the slide directly into traffic. So I would, um-
- JSJay Shetty
Gosh
- HPHayden Panettiere
I was able to turn into traffic, like just in time, in the nick of time. Like s- somebody, I felt like somebody was w- watching over me-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- HPHayden Panettiere
... um, and protecting me at that point. And sometimes I just had to go home afterwards. I didn't ins- and I s- I went out with a plan to do something and, and it wasn't safe and I didn't feel like dealing with, with them all day long, so I just went home and, and would go, "Ha, you didn't get your, you didn't get your shot." But I also didn't get to-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- HPHayden Panettiere
... do what I wanted. When I was living on my own, I remember having to call, um, like taxis to, at, at the time we didn't have Uber or anything up to my house, and I would have to lie down in the backseat, like almost on the f- on the floor so that they couldn't see, the paparazzi that were waiting in the street couldn't see that I was in the car. Or have a friend pick me up and I would have to hide under yoga mats and things like that. I also didn't realize, like we'd go to somewhere like, let's say The Grove, how many people, or somewhere on like Rodeo, how many people were paid money to do this, uh, to be a celebrity spotter.
- JSJay Shetty
Right.
- HPHayden Panettiere
And, you know, you think you, you, you've fooled them and you got out of there, and it just takes one person to, the wrong person to see you, and there goes your day.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. Wow.
- HPHayden Panettiere
You know?
- 44:48 – 48:08
Letting Yourself Love Again
- JSJay Shetty
Wow. I believe it was around the same time in the book you talk about meeting Vlad for the first time when you're doing the show, and I was, I was wondering, what do you, when you reflect back on it now and meeting him, what version of you were you then?
- HPHayden Panettiere
When I met him, I was 19. I liked myself back then [laughs] actually, when I think, when I think back on it. I, I felt like I held my own well. I, I found a lot of joy in life. I was a really happy person. Um, I hadn't had anything, you know, I hadn't lost people I loved or been through anything that had d- negatively shaped me. So I was, I was in a really good mental spot, a healthy mental spot when I, when I met him. I was full of piss and vinegar, as my mom would say. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs] And did it move fast? Did you, were you, you know, was it, was it just instantly you both knowed, knew that there was something there at the time?
- HPHayden Panettiere
He was not m- my type at, at first. I mean, he was like looking at a Greek statue. Like, that's what it w- it was like being in, in his presence. Like you, I just studied his, his face. He looked chiseled out of, out of, you know, stone. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- HPHayden Panettiere
Out of marble. You're like-
- JSJay Shetty
That's one of the best descriptions of it
- HPHayden Panettiere
... and he was so big.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- HPHayden Panettiere
I mean, his features, just like everything about him was so f- so fierce, and I was so small, but the personality that came out of him was, uh, surprisingly gentle and kind and made me very curious. But it w- it, I had just gone through a breakup with a co-star that I was still working with, so I wasn't really in the head space of fully moving past that breakup yet. So it took an, uh, it was, it w- it was another year. It was when I was 20 years old that Vlad and I actually connected and started dating. Um, I think that I, I, we were supposed to meet up, I was at the Super Bowl, we were supposed to meet up once when I was still n- 19, and I, I guess I was supposed to call him and I never did. And there he was, you know, the heavyweight champion of the world and going, apparently he was very pissed off at it. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- HPHayden Panettiere
That I, that I never, that he was waiting around for-
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- HPHayden Panettiere
... for my phone call, and he was like, "Who does this girl think she is?" [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- HPHayden Panettiere
"Does she know who I am?" Yeah. [laughs] He's not, he's, he's not a cocky person, but I remember his reaction b- to that being very [laughs] very funny.
- JSJay Shetty
That's fair.
- HPHayden Panettiere
[laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
That's fair. That's fair.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
As, as the heavyweight champion of the world.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah. So it took a year. It, I met him, uh, we kept k- in, in touch, and then actually I d- uh, my first fight was for my, I brought my little brother to his brother's fight for, for my little brother's birthday.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- HPHayden Panettiere
So it was a very special time, and then Vlad and I stayed in touch and, um, and then started a relationship.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- 48:08 – 54:50
Finding Strength Through Anxiety
- JSJay Shetty
Where, where, in the part in your book that I, I found like something that I, I was totally unaware of, and I'm gonna read from it here.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
You talk about this is, so while you were on Nashville, you obviously become a mother, and it was this idea that Nashville was almost writing based on-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Oh, yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... your life and writing around you.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
You talk about the storylines for your character, Juliette Barnes-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... and how on Nashville they mirrored what you were going through in your personal life. And you write this specifically, "I was suffering from debilitating anxiety and an addiction I couldn't shake, and I had to live through it twice. First at home as Hayden, and then in front of millions as Juliette."
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And that really struck me because, you know, I think we all watch TV and film and everything, and we don't really, it's almost like we believe you are that character anyway.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Absolutely.
- JSJay Shetty
And-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... you don't really ever know what the real character is until you, and, and it's, you can in an interview, but if you don't see that m- if you only see someone for three minutes on a late night show or a morning show or whatever-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Right, you have no-
- JSJay Shetty
... you have no real sense of who they are-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Exactly
- JSJay Shetty
... beyond, "Oh, well, Hayden and Juliette."
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
"Like, that's who she is."
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Right? Like-
- HPHayden Panettiere
On TV and what they see, you see in the newsAnd, and what you look like. The
- JSJay Shetty
You see headlines and news gossip and all that kind of stuff. You see the TV show and then you see pictures. You're absolutely right.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm. That's it.
- JSJay Shetty
And, and that's all you get. And this is why I really appreciate just how... I just wanna acknowledge, and for anyone who's gonna read this book, like, you get to see someone who's, I believe, lived through a lot of hardship, but has this ability to reflect and introspect about what's happening. And when you, when you put it that way and you're like, "Oh, I didn't realize," Hayden's going through this. She's living through the reality, and I wanna talk to you about the anxiety that you're experiencing. And then at the same time, you're living it twice 'cause now you're having to act it at work.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
And they're writing around you being pregnant to, to have the show continue, and then after that as well. And so talk to me about where the debilitating anxiety was coming from and what it felt like to live it twice.
- HPHayden Panettiere
It felt like it never ended. I didn't know where Juliette began and Hayden ended. In the beginning, when I first started doing Nashville, I thought, "Well, it's just a coincidence that our, our lives are, have so many similarities. It must be." And then as the years went on, the episodes went on, and everything kept mat- started matching up from, you know, the c- who Juliette Barnes was dating to, to being an alcoholic, to postpartum depression, to losing her child, basically abandoning her child. Um, it-- then it was like, "Okay, this, you guys are just mirroring my life." And we would get i- the, the-- we wouldn't get the episodes very far ahead of time, so to, to go to them and say, "Hey, you gotta change this and that," wasn't, wasn't anything I was used to doing. I was just used to, to doing my job and making it work. But it felt like the day never ended, and we would shoot 10 months out of the years, year-end 12 to 20-hour days. And I, I never thought I was a m- a method actor, um, and, and I've, I've worked with, with method actors who, when they play a character, a role, they, they never, they never jump in. They don't jump in and out of the character. They are the character for the entirety of the filming process. Shooting something for six years, 10 months out of the years, that's not really, that's not what you wanna do. The-- but it wasn't, was unavoidable-
- 54:50 – 1:00:07
The Reality of Postpartum No One Talks About
- JSJay Shetty
explain to me the, uh, the complexity of... And I, and I ask this from the perspective of having so many friends who've gone through postpartum depression-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... and it just not being talked about enough.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And whether it be even initially when it happened, I remember speaking to a lot of my male friends and them not understanding what their partner was going through, only then to realize that we were just unaware of, you know, the amount of women that go through postpartum depression. Talk to me about the complexity of the emotion of having your baby girl and the emotions that come with that as being a mother, and then the postpartum depression that follows that.
- HPHayden Panettiere
From a, as a young age, I always dreamt of becomingA mom. Like, uh, it was something that I always knew that I would be, always wanted to be, and I had all these ideas in my head of the kind of per- mother that I was going to be. I was gonna have cameras in every room, and I was gonna capture this and that, and I was gonna get them into all these, these different extracurricular activities and made sure that they spoke different languages, and they... Like, I had a-- this, this beautiful plan in my head. And then I had my daughter, and I knew something was just terribly, terribly wrong. And now, th-there's a lot of stigma around postpartum, and there's a lot o-of misunderstanding, and it's on a, a-- there's-- it's on a spectrum. It's on a scale. And unfortunately, you know, I, I never felt any hostility or negativity towards my child, you know, thankfully. Um, but I wasn't connecting with her the way that I knew I should be, and that I was full of stress and anxiety all the time, and what, uh, I was doing to, to suppress those, those emotions was not normal, and it was not healthy. I was miserable. I was m- in tears all the time. Um, you know, even though the alcohol helped, you know, my nervous system calm down, it, it is a depressant. So over time, it made things worse, not better. In a moment or two, it might feel, give you the illusion that it's making things better, but ultimately it becomes, um, uh, backfires, and it becomes a disaster. But Vlad was incredibly supportive e-even though he had no idea what was going on, and I had no idea what was going on either because I had never been around anybody who had ever experienced postpartum depression before. I'd never heard it spoken about. Um, you know, my mo- my mom, the females in my life, nobody ever said anything about it. All of their stories were of, of these beautiful, positive moments of, of joy and love, and I always say expectation leads to disappointment, but in this, in this way, I had, of course, I had expectations, and they were, they were good, and they were positive, and they were, they were gonna be... Life was gonna be great. And at about four months old, I finally, um, went to Vlad, and I said, I said, "I need, I need help. I can't live like this anymore," you know. "Something is terribly wrong." And he said, "Okay, let's, let's get you some help." I went to, um, a facility during the hiatus of the show, so it was kept, um, private. But I was there for alcoholism. They were treating me for alcoholism, and nobody ever said anything about postpartum depression there. So I, I felt unfixable. I felt like there was no way, the way out of it, and I was trying to process the idea that maybe I was gonna be depressed like this for the rest of my life, and this was just the new normal. So that was terrifying. I had this gorgeous, sweet angel child, healthy. I was so lucky and blessed, and I was just a mess. I was just a, a mess, and there was nothing that I could, I, I, I could do to fix it properly. And there was-- It felt like there was nobody around who understood because there was so much stigma around it and because it's so misunderstood. It took me probably about 10 months to really realize what it was that was going on, of me researching and figuring it out myself.
- JSJay Shetty
Wow, you had to do it
- 1:00:07 – 1:03:34
Losing Everything You Built and Starting Again
- JSJay Shetty
yourself. 'Cause I, 'cause I know also you talk about how, like, when you finally did talk about it, you even lost an endorsement deal.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yep. Neutrogena, I was with for 10 years, and I mean, they have morals clauses, which was a huge-- uh, had a huge impact, uh, uh, in, in my, my life, um, because I was, I was a teenager, and I had all the paparazzi around me catching all of these gory moments. Like, every m- every moment, every cigarette that I, that I smoked or bad outfit or, "Oh, she's looking chunky in a bathing suit. Oh, she has a fat vagina." I mean, I went through, through all of that, you know. Uh, they were there for, for everything. Neutrogena was a huge part of my, mmm, of my life. I had the morals clauses. They caught absolutely everything, and of all the things to-- that they would fire me over, this was the last thing that I thought they would ever fire me over. And when I actually went out onto stage, um, and it was live with, with Kelly and Michael, I had no intention of or plan to talk about postpartum depression. It just came up, and I was just being honest. And never for a second did I think that a-anyone or cared that anyone would have a bad reaction to it. It was my truth. And so when I got that call that, that Neutrogena wanted to fire me over that, and my representative at the time saidThat's illegal. You can't do that. And even though, you know, she saved the day that year, I knew that that was gonna be it, that there was gonna be... I was not gonna be invited back the next year. And I had worked with these people for 10 years, and I remember not hearing a word from anybody, not a, a great working with you for, for 10 years, not a, a, a nice-
- JSJay Shetty
Hope you're okay. I mean-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah, hope, hope you're-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- HPHayden Panettiere
... you're good. W- we wish you well. And I remember that really breaking my, my heart. Um, I wouldn't change it for the world. I, I wouldn't take it back. But as I said, of all the things that I had been caught doing, that being the thing that, that was where they drew the line and it was immoral, was shocking-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm
- HPHayden Panettiere
... to me. And it made me realize and understand exactly what people thought of women who experience postpartum depression, and how misunderstood it is, how much stigma there is around it, and how... I mean, we're already in pain.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- HPHayden Panettiere
We are already, like the worst possible thing, one of the worst possible things in the world to happen to a woman is h- is already happening to her. The last thing we need is, you know, the icing on the cake, you know?
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- HPHayden Panettiere
And feeling so judged and in such a negative
- 1:03:34 – 1:07:25
The Truth About Postpartum Depression
- HPHayden Panettiere
way.
- JSJay Shetty
What do you want people to know about postpartum depression that you think they miss?
- HPHayden Panettiere
That it's real.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- HPHayden Panettiere
That it's not something we make up. It's not something we want. It's not, um, you know, that we've, we've, we've lost our, our marbles and, and it's not something that we want to, to go through. And, and we're not lying when we tell you something's wrong. And, and we're, we're in tears for absolutely no reason. Like, we don't have control over this, and this would be the last thing that we would ever want to experience or go through. We wanna be with our child, our child, our brand-new child, and have, f- be filled with joy and feel like the luckiest person in the world and, and, you know, capture every, every moment. And for anyone to think th- otherwise is just misinformed.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- HPHayden Panettiere
And, uh, yeah, I, I, I just, I think people need to know a lot more about it, need to understand.
- JSJay Shetty
Did the facility you visited help you with the alcoholism or what, what finally actually helped with that?
- HPHayden Panettiere
Oh, I struggled with that for, for years. It was an on-and-off, uh, battle for a really long time, and getting out of that, uh, depression was really difficult. And the fact that I didn't have the time to really spend on, um, on healing myself and, and, and fixing myself, figuring out, you know, how to navigate this and get back to my old self, because I was on Nashville and we were shooting so, so much. I mean, there, at one point I did have to say to the show, "I have to go get treatment. You're gonna have to write me out of the script," which upset a l- a lot of people and made me feel awful because I did, I, I'd always prided myself in being, on being a professional. Um, but it was incredibly important for me [chuckles] to get my head screwed on straight or I, or I was gonna, you know, I was just gonna, going off the deep end. I was, I was, I felt myself sinking further and further and further into this dark hole that I just could not climb out of.
- JSJay Shetty
When I was reading the book, it just felt like the challenges just get tougher and tougher and tougher and tougher and tougher as you kind of, you know, go, go through it with you. And they also seem kind of, again, just as your career in the beginning stages was almost not a choice.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
All of these things also feel that way, where it's kind of like just happening to you and-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... because of, you know, just there's, there's not a, it's not a choice to bring these things on.
- HPHayden Panettiere
No, no.
- JSJay Shetty
They're, they're coming off, you know, of course, postpartum depression and, and everything else that's happening through that and not, and also not having these conversations. Like, today, you know, millions of people will listen to this conversation and be able to have a better understanding of what that means and what that looks like.
- HPHayden Panettiere
I hope so.
- JSJay Shetty
And today, the-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... conversation around these things is growing. It's still not where, where it needs to be yet.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Right.
- JSJay Shetty
And sadly, there are still terrible headlines and terrible gossip and-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Agreed
- JSJay Shetty
... terrible stories made up about people and... But these conversations are beginning to happen and you go, "Okay, well, hopefully the next person doesn't have to-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Go through this
- JSJay Shetty
... go through the fact of not knowing where to go for help-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... or be seen as, oh, just get over it or move on or-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... there's something wrong with you or, or whatever the ridiculous things we all hear are in, in those scenarios.
- 1:07:25 – 1:14:41
Letting Go Even When It Hurts
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, I think it was around this same time that you talk about in the book where the custody of your daughter shifts from, you know, over to Vlad and, and to Ukraine, I believe as well.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And I, I feel like that was especially talked about terribly, where there's so many speculations and so many opinions and so many assumptions on why that's happening. Could you tell us what was really happening?
- HPHayden Panettiere
I mean, the-Idea that anybody would think that I would just give away my child and be okay with it is heartbreaking. Couldn't be further from the truth. You know, a-as you said, I was, I was struggling s-with mental health and anxiety and the postpartum and having to act my way through it and just f-feeling like I, I, I, I completely lost myself. Um, and I think a, a misconception is that I have been f-in the past forced into treatment when in fact I have been the one who s-sought it out, who, who was saying-
- SPSpeaker
I need help
- HPHayden Panettiere
... I desperately need help. I don't, I, you know, I know this is gonna look terrible, but I am, I am, I cannot live like this anymore. And even though Vlad didn't understand it, the people around me didn't know what was going on, I didn't know what was going on. They were supportive. I, I went to go get help. They didn't know what was going on. And so it became this horrible cycle for years of, of battling depression and anxiety and, and alcoholism and substance abuse and, and me just trying to find my way back, my way out of this darkness, um, in any-- Uh, d- I would have done anything and tried anything. Um, but it wasn't until Vla- un-until Kaya, uh, was two years old, about two, two and a half years old, that, uh, Vlad decided that he, he thought it would be best for her to live in Europe. And when that first happened, I did not have a good reaction to it. I went like mother lion. I, I would have burnt the world down for, for my child. So that was incredibly difficult. Not, you know, the fact that my, my child wasn't gonna be with me all day, every day was, um, was... I, I, I mean, it just, you can't put words to it. It's just a, um, a really intense layer, you know, f-feeling that, or multiple feelings really, like, layered together. But, um, but I realized that, you know, she had been traveling back and forth for so many years, and because I was working on the show and because Vlad had, had to prepare for fights and as a businessman in, in his own right, she had to go back and forth between the US and Europe. And sometimes we would go together, and sometimes she would go with the nanny. So she had spent a lot of time over there. She had family, she had friends, she had extracurricular activities. She had a really-- She already had a beautiful life, and she understood the languages and was starting to speak them. So by the time I finally got healthy, I felt like it would have been unfair of me to, and selfish of me to try to pull her out away from this, this life that, that she had been created, um, that she was living an incredible life. Um, she's an incredible little girl, so happy and, and speaks five languages and, and, and rides horses and, um, knows that she's got two parents that love her. And she, I, I, I know in my heart that she feels supported. I have an incredible relationship with her. I go, I travel as much as, as I can. I see her. I do spend a lot of time on FaceTime with her. Um, but we talk about really deep things. So we have a, a, a really intense, incredible, um, bond, and I'm very grateful for that. And I, I know that she knows that she has two parents who would do anything in the world to make sure that she is happy and healthy mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually, um, and she in no way feels abandoned. Um, and that's something that I've made sure to s-be, stay on top of and be very, uh, aware of. And I think it's also good to lead by example as, as a parent. She gets to watch. She didn't g-just get born with one parent in the, in the limelight with-- who is famous and powerful. You know, she was born with two, and two on completely separate continents and, and i-in their own ways. But she's very proud of watching her, her mom and dad, uh, kick butt and do what they do. She, she, she's our biggest fan. I think it makes her feel like she can accomplish anything. You can just see that she is good, and she is solid, and she f- she f- she feels loved because of the way that she's able to love herself. And so f-to watch as a, as a parent your 11-year-old already have this beautiful ability to love other people and, and love, love themselves is... You just can't ask for more than that.So I think there's been a common, and you know, a very common misconception that I just gave up my, my child when there is, uh, that could not be farther from, from the truth. So-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- HPHayden Panettiere
I hope people that are watching this, I hope it's a little clearer, and I hope it becomes clearer in the book.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. I think when they read the book as well, there's ... You, you see so much of the context that I think we miss in, in everything else, and there's this really
- 1:14:41 – 1:16:59
Choosing What’s Best for Your Child
- JSJay Shetty
powerful line in the book that you share where you say you grieve not being, this was at that time, you grieve not being the mother you thought you'd be. And I wanted to ask you, how do you hold that grief without letting it define the mother you are today?
- HPHayden Panettiere
The grief has definitely gotten the best of me, uh, many times. Many, many, m- many times. Um, but it's transformed from grief. It was grief in the beginning, um, but because of the relationship that I do have with, with her and how things ultimately, uh, played out, I'm incredibly grateful to, to her. She has an incredible father, an incredible family. Um, and I, I no long- I, I don't f- feel... E- even though it's not what I wanted to happen, and it's not what I hoped motherhood was gonna be or what it would look like, I'm so lucky to, that it turned out the way it did, and that she is, um, safe and, and, and a wonderful, well-rounded person that I'm, uh, that we have the bond that we have, which is, it's something that I, y- you know, was terrified wasn't gonna happen when she was taken away, that, that I was gonna have to fight really hard to have any sort of relationship with her. And it ended up i- in a lot of ways being a blessing.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- HPHayden Panettiere
I will always want her here. You know? I always miss her. I always want her to, you know, be, and to have my arms wrapped around her. But that's just not the way life is right at this moment. But I do, uh, believe that, you know, there, there will be a day where she's an adult, and she's able to make her own decisions and go wherever she wants, and I have faith that she is going to come to me, and that we're gonna have an incredible relationship and bond and friendship that a lot of parents don't get to have with their kids.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm. Thank you for
- 1:16:59 – 1:21:00
Staying Close Even When You’re Far Apart
- JSJay Shetty
sharing that. It's always incredible how, like, things don't turn out the way we expect them to, and yet it seems like you've found a way to work at it and work on yourself and try to make the shifts and changes you need to, whether it was, you know, with the alcoholism, whether it was getting yourself up out of spaces that you didn't wanna be in to try and be the person that you-
- HPHayden Panettiere
That's the only option to, to me. That's the, is, is you keep get- no matter how many times you fall, you, you keep getting up and dust yourself off. It's, it's, it's ... And, and you, and you keep going. It's, it's how you, what you do with these failures or falling, falling on your face. It's what you do after that really counts.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- HPHayden Panettiere
It's how you handle that that really counts and matters, and I'll never stop fighting to be good.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. I mean, you, you were mentioning to me that also the rela- you have a strong relationship with Vlad, which helps-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm. Oh, yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... this situation. Yeah.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah. Vlad and I are very close. We, all three of us talk all the time. He travels a lot when he's in Europe too, so sometimes we, we have a three-way FaceTime going on. Um, and sometimes, um, it's, it's the two of them and me. But, but y- yeah, he's been incredibly supportive. I mean, she's tr- he's brought her over here. She's known her great-grandparents. Um, they've been a part of her, her life. My, um, I've lost my, my grampy and my papa, but, but they were able to, to know her, which was really important to me, and she still has m- my nana and my grandma. She calls Nana Super Nana.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- HPHayden Panettiere
[laughs] Super Nana. [laughs] And she is Super Nana. Um-
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah. We have a, we have a, we have a great, great relationship, and Vlad and I are still best friends. There's not, not many people who know me on the, on this, in this world as well as, as he does, and I know that we still have an incredible amount of love for each other. And most importantly, we have an incredible amount of respect for each other. We made promises that, um, something that unfort- I unfortunately grew up with was, uh, hearing a lot of negative talk from, um, my mother about my, my father, and that w- had a, a really negative im- impact on me. It, it, it hurt to constantly, you know, hear the per- or the person that you love be put down. So we made a promise to each other that we would never say anything negative about one another to-
- JSJay Shetty
Wow
- HPHayden Panettiere
... to our daughter.
- JSJay Shetty
Wow.
- HPHayden Panettiere
And that both of us have, have stuck to that, that promise, and we talk each other up to, to our daughter and, and talk positively about each o- each other. And I, I check in with her and make sure she's, you know, being respectful and that she's loving, loves her dad, and, and that she knows he's a hero and, and one of the bravest people I, I know and-And she loves both of her-- us to, to death, so
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. I mean, it's-- I feel like it's an intention we all have to kind of repeat the good things our parents did well and try to not repeat the things that maybe they didn't do so well. And it's almost-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Right
- JSJay Shetty
... like we're always trying to be, I think those of us who are trying to be on the path of awareness-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Evolve.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, yeah, evolve and just say, "Hey, I'm gonna make other mistakes."
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
We all, we all are because we're human, but gonna try and do my best in this capacity. I feel like-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Absolutely
- JSJay Shetty
... something we were talking about earlier about repeating patterns and people that we attract into our life, and
- 1:21:00 – 1:30:25
Finding the Strength to Leave an Abusive Relationship
- JSJay Shetty
you talked about this, and you were mentioning it to me earlier. You talked about, you know, surviving your abusive relationship with your ex.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yes.
- JSJay Shetty
And I just-- I wanted to ask you about... Because like I said before, it's like every time you go further in the book and deeper in the book, I can tell that you, you know your truth and you know who you are. And as you said earlier in our conversation today, you were like, "But I don't know if I'm always good at knowing or trusting my gut or-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... following through on it."
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Why do you think that is?
- HPHayden Panettiere
I feel like I've let myself down so many times and let other people down so many times, and I've, I've just... I, I mean, I, I, I worked so hard to create an, uh, this incredible life and, and career, and I, I basically burnt it all to the, to the ground essentially and had to, you know, start climbing up that mountain. Um, and it happened, you know, more than once, and you learn-- having to try to get out of my own way was the most difficult part of it. It was almost like, like I would s- like self-implode and, and dest- and destroy something good that I had going on before anybody else got a chance to. Uh, it was like instead of setting myself up for failure, I knew I was gonna fail, so I was gonna just, just it might as well happen sooner rather than, than later. And it made me stop trusting myself. I mean, I wasn't even raised to, to trust myself. As I said before, like, my instincts, aside from my instincts as an actor, uh, but as a human being, I was not, like, uh, I, I was not taught to really trust myself. I was taught to trust these people around me. It's been a really long road and a really hard road, um, and a really stressful road trying to, to get back to that trust I had, um, at, at, at one point when I was, when I was younger in my, in myself, and how, you know, knowing how important it is that you listen to yourself, that you listen to your gut. Every time that I have not listened to my gut, I have, I have always regretted it, that I found myself in a terrible position.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- HPHayden Panettiere
The abuse, the fact that I allowed this person not only into my life, but for how long I put up with it. And, um, this is something, this is a topic that is-- I've been journ- journaling a lot about it, um, trying to organize my thoughts and my, my feelings. And I did journal last night, and for the first time, I really feel like I was able to put into words what w- has been going on for the past decade of my life in regards to, um, the abuse. And I was actually gonna ask if, if I could read it, because I think it's really important. This i- this topic is really important for me to word, word properly, word well, and so that, so the people listening really understand what I, what I'm saying.
- JSJay Shetty
Please, yeah.
- HPHayden Panettiere
It took me a long time to finally see the situation clearly. I've had to do a lot of soul searching and therapy around this topic because allowing somebody to get away with harming me was so unlike me. The more I thought about it and analyzed it, the more connections I made between the abuse I was allowing to transpire and the abuse I've gone through in my past. They say that you end up marrying one of your parents, and no, I'm not married, but I found a very interesting connection between this abusive behavior and my mother's abusive behavior. Even though they would both shake their heads and say I was crazy to think there was anything similar about the two of them, there definitely was. I realized that I was more afraid of being alone than being abused. And in order to be around that kind of behavior, it took me dulling my senses and numbing myself with substances in order to silence that rational voice in my head that was telling me exactly what was going on and the many reasons why I needed to get myself out of this toxic relationship and as far away from this person as possible. Somehow, every time I found the strength to get away from my abusers, they would always find their way back into my life one way or another. It was like being on a hamster wheel in this endless dizzying cycle. And the craziest part and the hardest part was to understand, to understand was that the physical abuse would come out of left field, but it was always when he was drinking, same as my mom. We could be dancing and joking, then a switch would flip, and suddenly it was on. Something would snap, and it was like watching a predator suddenly smell blood.I was dealing with this Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde situation. I tried to fight back in every way that I could think of. I took every approach from standing my ground to attempting to calm the situation, to running and hiding from it until he sobered up. Then once he was sober, that good part of him would be back, and he would see the damage he had done, and he was devastated and apologetic, and it seemed so honest and genuine that I was torn. I thought back to everything I've done wrong in the past and the forgiveness I was shown. So I think a part of me felt an obligation to be just as forgiving. I desperately wanted to make him a better person. I wanted to fix him. I'm a really strong person at my core, and anyone who knows me was shocked that I would ever allow anything like this to happen. I have this bright, powerful light in me that comes on, but then it would dim around that kind of intense conflict. I found myself trying to be smaller and weaker just to avoid a battle, because there's no reasoning with the unreasonable, and as strong as I am, I couldn't physically stand up to a grown man. I know I have a big heart, and I always try to see the good in people, in people, so much so that it's been to my detriment at times. The worst part was that by allowing the cycle to continue, it hurt the people I love who came to my rescue, and I cannot allow that to continue to happen. In order to finally get off the hamster wheel and put an end to the cycle of abuse with him and with other toxic people in my life, I had to remind myself how strong I am. I had to envision the life I want for myself, and most importantly, I had to take accountability for enabling unforgivable behavior.
- JSJay Shetty
Thank you for-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... sharing that from your journal. Very, very personal and appreciate you, you know, letting us in that deeply as you do in the book and in what happened in the last couple of nights, I believe. Um-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Thank you for letting me share. I, I feel like, I mean, that's the first time I've shared that, so I'm, I'm feeling the weight, this, this weight come off my shoulders at this moment.
- JSJay Shetty
How does it feel to say out loud?
- HPHayden Panettiere
You know when you feel so much pressure on your chest and, and it, and those, that anxiety and nerves and, and then you're relieved by some, by something like that? It feels like an elephant stepped off my chest.
- JSJay Shetty
Hmm.
- HPHayden Panettiere
I feel overwhelmed in a positive way. I feel like I finally, I finally did it, and I got to do it in my own words. In this moment, I f- I feel more trust in myself than I have in years. So I got a little bit of me back just now. [sniffs]
- JSJay Shetty
That's so beautiful to hear. I mean, it's... You, you just said now that in your own words, and I feel that, I feel like this entire book is a reclaiming of who you are and-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah. Yeah, one step at a time. One step at a time, but that, uh, it's been a 10-year dilemma and trauma after trauma, and just to be able to explain it at all, I never thought that I would be able to put it into words.
- JSJay Shetty
You said
- 1:30:25 – 1:35:20
Rebuilding Yourself After Trauma
- JSJay Shetty
in there that you, and I think a lot of us, we tolerate abuse because we'd rather do that than be alone. And I think when you look back on that, you can beat yourself up to say, "Why didn't I leave earlier?" And as you were saying, like, "I'm stronger than that." Like, "Why wouldn't, why wouldn't I stand up for myself?" And at the same time, there has to be a sense of compassion for oneself to, to say you, you're just doing the best you could in that moment.
- HPHayden Panettiere
But coming from a good place.
- JSJay Shetty
Talk to me about that.
- HPHayden Panettiere
That was o- o- o- one thing that was, that made it all the more confusing to me is because I knew throughout, I've known throughout the whole thing that I didn't, I wasn't doing anything to deserve it. And that's why I say in that, in that part, like, talk about how it would come out of left field. It didn't take me saying anything wrong.
- JSJay Shetty
Hmm.
- HPHayden Panettiere
It didn't take me doing anything wrong. It didn't take m- mistakes or jealousy or... Like, there was no catalyst. And suddenly it would be, I would be being dragged by the hair, and it was like, "What just happened? What did I do? What-- And what can I do to make it go back to, to, you know, two seconds ago?" Like, "W- what, what's going on?" Um, and w- w- as I say, you can't reason with the unreasonable. And it was like the person that you love just was, disappeared. You-- I would look in his eyes, and they would be vacant. Like, and then it was terrifying. Terrifying. And I've always been, been interested in psychology, and so trying to understand what was going on, I mean, I was, like, going through the DSM, like, in my, in my head and, and trying toY- y- y- you know, trying to figure out, you know, is it schizo- schizophrenia? Is it, is it paranoia? Like, what in the heck is going, is going on? 'Cause it was, it was only when, when alcohol, um, was involved, but th- no amount of alcohol could ever make me capable of doing something like that, especially over and over and over and over and over and over again.
- JSJay Shetty
I'm so sorry you had to go through that.
- HPHayden Panettiere
It was like, I don't know, maybe it was my, my ego. Like, he was in my, in my ring, and I, I felt like I was not gonna let him, you know, win, win the battle. Um, and by, by me not m- the id- what would be winning to me w- would be fixing him, being able to fix him and make him better, because I saw some good in there and wanted to bring that to the surface. Um, but it... I had no control over that. And some people don't wanna change, and you just have to accept that, as disappointing as it is.
- JSJay Shetty
Again, I think you're being hard on yourself. Like, I think, you know, there's a, there's a... Sure, there's, you know, all of... And, and by the way, we, we're all people pleasers. We're all-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Right, right
- JSJay Shetty
... control freaks. We're all-- We, we all have all of that in us because of how we were-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Right
- JSJay Shetty
... we've all been raised, and there's a sense that we all want to fix people and make people better.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
And of course, we're working on these things, but we all share this, and it's... But it should never lead to that.
- HPHayden Panettiere
No.
- JSJay Shetty
You know?
- HPHayden Panettiere
No.
- JSJay Shetty
It's, uh, yeah, it should, it-
- HPHayden Panettiere
I d- I, I, no, the f- and the fact it still baffles me that, that it ever went there, that I ever allowed it to, that I ever stuck around for it. I mean, it's just so unlike me. But I think it, that a huge part of it is that being alone piece.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- HPHayden Panettiere
I had just finished, when I met him, I had just finished, uh, Nashville and just moved back to LA, and I was lonely, and, and nobody was present. In the beginning, it was the person that I fell in love with was great. So the Mr. Hyde did not show up until I was already in love with the Dr. Jekyll.
- JSJay Shetty
Were you able to
- 1:35:20 – 1:37:31
Finding the Courage to Ask for Help
- JSJay Shetty
talk to anyone? Did you, did you feel you could reach out to anyone, or did it just feel so unsafe?
- HPHayden Panettiere
I felt emba- embarrassed, humiliated. Um, I felt ashamed. I wanted to keep my friends and the people that I loved as far away from the situation as humanly possible because there was no understanding it. It didn't, it wasn't rational. It didn't make sense, and, um, I wanted to protect them from feeling the need to protect me. I just knew there was no explaining it without getting the reaction of, "What are you doing? What are you thinking?" And I would go-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm
- HPHayden Panettiere
... "I genuinely don't know. I don't know what in me is, is, is putting up with this, is allowing this to happen. I really don't." And as I said before, I never, there's never for a moment did I think that I deserved it or that it was okay at all. That was, that was, [scoffs] that was never, never a thing. I mean, f- uh, I use the term forgiveness very lightly because as hard as I tried to forgive, I'm unable to, to do that. You don't forgive and forget those kinds of, those kinds of things. And it's not just the physical abuse, but it's also the emotional abuse that leaves the deepest scars. The bruises might fade, but you're left with these incredibly deep emotional scars from g- gaslighting and being made to feel like it, it's, it's your fault, and I think I was caught at that very, that perfect mo- time where I was incredibly vulnerable and incredibly weak. He preyed on, on that, on my vulnerability.
- JSJay Shetty
What did it take
- 1:37:31 – 1:46:10
Walking Away and Reclaiming Your Power
- JSJay Shetty
to finally get out? Like, what, what does that take? Because I feel so many people stay there. How, how long were you tolerating this for?
- HPHayden Panettiere
Well, I thought I, at one point, I thought I had gotten out of it and gotten away from it. But I, I'm-- it's like, it's like, and we s- we talked about before, it's like w- this, like, abusers, they weave themselves like weeds in, into your life, and there's always something that they left behind. There's also s- always something that they have to come back for. There was, there's always something that they find to keep that connection, keep you on the hook, keep that connection with you. No matter where you, you go, that they will always find you and find a, an in, find a way to slither back into your life. So I, I went from, you know, really wanting to keep m- my, the peop- my loved ones away from it to, to, "That's it. I've snapped."You don't pull out a gun and wave it around. You only pull it out... This is, this is it. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
Yes, metaphorically. I got, I got... Yeah, yeah.
- HPHayden Panettiere
But you don't raise, wave it around. You only pull it out if you're gonna pull that trigger. And I finally decided, you know, that I needed to pull the trigger, and I called in, I called in, um, the heavy, heavy hitters and the people that were gonna protect me and make sure that he had no way back, back in, that this was gonna be a, a, a done deal finally. I always hoped that this, this was gonna happen, I mean, one, one day. And as I said, I thought that I, I really thought I had done it and I was capable of doing it by myself, but I needed an incredible amount of support and backup in order to make sure that, that there was no way for him to find his way back in.
- JSJay Shetty
What did it take for you to take that step? Like, what, what had to happen for you to say enough is enough and-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Finding out that the good that I was holding onto, uh, that I thought I saw in him was not real, that it was realizing all of the, the lies. I mean, you gotta be really good to pull the wool over m- my eyes, and that he was. But once I, I knew that that good was not real, that good, that k- that good side of him, the big heart that I, that I saw was, w- was just m- made up and was just acting, um, just really good acting, then I had the ability to, to let go and let myself off the hook, that I didn't have to care anymore and that I didn't have to feel guilty anymore about, about parting from him. Whatever struggles he, he goes through are his, and they're, they're no longer mine to clean up, and I don't have to worry about it anymore. I've released myself.
- JSJay Shetty
What you just said there is so real and so true, and I honestly honor your vulnerability and clarity because it's... What you just said, this idea of accepting that that person's good isn't real, because that's the thing that keeps finding their way back and keeps appealing to someone who wants to help and solve and fix, and it's, it's just believing, "Oh, no, but there is... There, there's that. There is that." And you, you keep thinking it's real even if it's small.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
And you don't see it that often, but then when you finally accept, "Oh, no, it's not real," it's-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... it's actually the reason that they keep getting away with this behavior.
- HPHayden Panettiere
And it's heartbreaking to find out that it's, that it wasn't real.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- HPHayden Panettiere
I mean, I, I remember finding texts that, that he'd been having relationships and this and that, and one of the things that, that, that I thought was great about him is how loyal he, of a person he was. And when I realized how long that had been a farce, like, I was, I was like, "I have... Somebody ripped off the rose-colored glasses, and I see clearly now. I see clearly now," and there was nothing left to, as you said, hang on to. There's nothing to, to, to keep me there or invested or forgiving in any way.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. Yeah, and when you say h- heavy hitters, you mean the FBI had to get involved, right? Like, had to get to that level or not really?
- HPHayden Panettiere
Oh, um-
- JSJay Shetty
Not with this
- HPHayden Panettiere
... I mean, they... No, he went to jail.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, yeah.
- HPHayden Panettiere
He went to jail.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Um, and they d- they did have to-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- HPHayden Panettiere
... get involved.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Um, but he, he m- managed to weasel his way back in even after-
- JSJay Shetty
Oh, wow
- HPHayden Panettiere
... that for, uh, a little bit. Um, so had to get him out again. It was, it was-
- JSJay Shetty
That's crazy
- HPHayden Panettiere
... it was like this, this period of time of, like, back and forth, um, um, battle. And I mean, as I said, I thought I had gotten away from, from him for this, this big period of time, and then for, you know, certain reasons, I'm, I'm, I won't go into-
- 1:46:10 – 1:55:32
Losing the Person Who Knew You Best
- JSJay Shetty
yeah, I just, I, you know, I, I really feel like This Is Me, this book, does that for people who wanna understand, you know, what, what the picture really looks like. And you sadly, I mean, you've talked about him throughout, you know, you sadly lost your brother three years ago, and you describe him in the book as, "The heartbreak of my life, always right there in the center of who I am." I wanted to ask you, like, how did losing him change the way you see all of this? Because it feels like the hardest one, even though everything we've talked about is extremely heavy and hard.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Oh, yeah. There's, uh, there was-- there's nothing in my life that feels like losing my other half, like the other half that I was, that was born to be my, my, the yin to my yang. Um, and we were so close, and especially being the older s-sibling who it's your job to protect them and keep them safe, and not being able to is... [sighs] I mean, it-- heartbreaking doesn't, doesn't even begin to cover it. I would need to... a dictionary to go through all the words for all the feelings that, you know, that go through your m- your mind, but I, I've g- I, I mean, I collapsed, and it stayed with me. I know time is, like, the best, is the best healer, um, generally, but it's been three years, and every year it's gotten... it's b- it's changed. The heartbreak has, has changed. But losing him and realizing how much of life I was gonna have to go through alone and without him, where I, when I always saw him as being there. You know, the day that my parents are not here anymore, I'm gonna have to do alone. And the fact that he's, he's not here to be a part of my daughter's life, and the fact that he's... I mean, there are so many t-times I wanna call him all the time. And, and he was my n- best, best friend. And, and, like, when he first died, I just remember screaming, "I don't wanna live in a world where he doesn't exist." So I've unfortunately had to. Ugh. But he seems so alive in my head still. He was such a big, big personality, um, he just, like, I-- no matter how, n-no matter what, like, he was just one of those people I never thought anything w-could take him down or take him away. He was so good too, and it makes you so angry to see so m- that there are thri- bad people thriving in this world, and then one so good that's just taken-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm
- HPHayden Panettiere
... from, from you. Why? It's not fair. It doesn't make sense. So that's something I, I just, I don't think I'll ever... I, I'll never get over. It, it'll just evolve. Luckily, he was an amazing artist and I'm-- I have his, his paint, some of his paintings, and that keeps part of him alive for me. He left that be-behind, some beautiful things behind, but... And I feel him with me. I know that he's, he's protecting me from where he is and was needed elsewhere, but I wish they would send him back to me. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
I'm so sorry for your loss, and hearing about him from you and reading more in the book, it's about your relationship. It's, um, so special to have a amazing sibling relationship, even when you grew up in a home where things were maybe a bit more complex.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
That becomes kind of like your-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah, he was my mor- my rock, my... We're the only two-- He was the only other person who fully understood everything about me. I mean, we grew up in the same position, see-seeing the same... things.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Um, and we, we joked about the same things, we laughed about the same things, we cried about the same things. We were-- If we weren't five years apart, um, you would think we were personality-wise twin, you know, twins.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- HPHayden Panettiere
So, you know, to lose somebody who understands you on that level, yeah, and feeling like I f- I failed to keep him safe was really hard. And of all the people that, that should have understood him and, and been there and been able to protect him, it should have been me. And I did try, and I was shaking the people around me, going, "Wake up to what's going on. This is serious." You know, his, his struggle with addiction was serious. And I mean, I remember before he was 18 saying, begging my parents to send him to military school, um, before he was capable of making decisions for himself, that they, he needed to, they needed to do this for his, for his safety, and he needed to, to be disciplined. And, and as, as much as, as I loved his free spirit, spiritedness... Is that a word? Spiritedness? [chuckles] Yes. He was such a deep and emotional person. He was so beautiful. I mean, you think about, I think about the way that I'm able to forgive, like, and, and, and how I'm a first person to see someone struggle, and I will be the first person there. Like, he was me times, times a hundred.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- HPHayden Panettiere
It was just too much, I think. I think it was too much to be, to be him. It was over-overwhelming. This, the way he thought was overwhelming, the way he felt was overwhelming. So he had-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- HPHayden Panettiere
... to numb too. So I, I, I get it, and I just wish I, I could have done something differently.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. It's, it's hard when you love people and see them do that, and you have a deeper understanding of it because you've been there as well yourself-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... and know what that can look like and feel like and... But again, it's, it's too much pressure for you too. It's like, you know, you have a big heart and you care a lot, but be kinder to yourself 'cause you can't, you know, solve and save-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... and fix everything and everyone. It's-
- HPHayden Panettiere
I-
- JSJay Shetty
It's a lot
- HPHayden Panettiere
I feel like that's something that they need to teach in school to children, like how to be kind to yourself. Teach them about negative self-talk.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Because that's something that we're all guilty of, and, and it's, it's so-- it's horrible what it does to us. What we've found out scientifically that it does to us and our energy and our way we, we think, and the, to see the f- physical, emotional, mental effects it has on, on us. I, I feel it's, like, it's really important for, for people and for-- to, to understand that even though it might be something s-small in, in their minds, that, that it's, it's, it's a big deal to talk to yourself like that. And people ask, you know, "Would you, would you talk to a friend the way you talk to yourself?" And most of the time people say no, [chuckles] right?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. And the pressure we put on ourselves to-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... to solve everything and fix everything and be there for-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah
- 1:55:32 – 2:01:17
Navigating Grief, Loneliness, and Healing
- JSJay Shetty
how much it took to write this book, and we are, we're only talking about specific events that we're diving into, and there's so much more inside when people will read it and learn so much more about everything we're talking about. But I can't, I can't imagine just how much excavating it took, and then-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... to add to it all, you write about in the book how you had a stalker, and through the isolation, through the, you know... And I'm just like-
- HPHayden Panettiere
It just keeps getting better. [chuckles]
- JSJay Shetty
How does that feel to be going through grief, to be isolated, to-- and then be dealing with that on top of everything that you've gone through that you've shared today?
- HPHayden Panettiere
I was-- They have that saying, "When it rains, it pours." I feel that all the time. We go through periods of times where things are great, and then everything will go wrong all at once. And I don't know if it's Mercury in retrograde or it's, or the, the something in the air, like, what is going on to make all of these hap- things happen all at once. Um, but the experience with him is, uh, uh, the, the man who, who stalked me was, was terrifying. And this man was not just a s- a, a stalker who, who was a big f- a big fan. Like, he was genuinely mentally unwell.And, and leaving, uh, um, message after message about how he was gonna bring his katana sword and decapitate. And, um, and he was-- I had to g- I had to actually cancel, um, speaking engagements that I had because he was flying and he was waiting for me there. Now, I've had stalkers before in the past who were all talk, right? And no action. And you go, after a while you go, "Okay, they're not really gonna do. This is somebody who's just, just has the time to sit here and do this." But then there are those that y-you realize are incredibly dangerous, and they mean what they say. And the F-FBI, uh, and Secret Service had to get involved. And, um, I mean, I thank them both, all of them from the bottom of my heart for, for getting him and for putting him away. He did just recently get out, so-
- JSJay Shetty
Wow
- HPHayden Panettiere
... um, I've-
- JSJay Shetty
That's terrible
- HPHayden Panettiere
... you know, it's, I'm, I'm, I'm feeling, you know, all these different emot-emotions going on while having, having ex- I like the way you say it, excavated my life and written this book and put it all out there, very emotional topics. Then to deal with something like this on top of it, and knowing that he just got out too, of jail recently, um, is, is scary. The whole experience was just... I- To, to deal with somebody that's that unhinged is terrifying. It's s- because it goes back to that you can't reason with the, the unreasonable, and you have no idea what they're capable of. When you don't know what pe- somebody is capable of, I mean, we've all seen people do in things that we could, we would never imagine them, people being capable of d- of doing. And, and to, to feel like you're sitting in limbo and just, and you have no idea if they're gonna show. The, the stories that we've heard in the, in the past of people show- showing up and just, boom, you're done. You're, you're, you're gone. You, w- To deal with somebody like, like that, that is the, that is one of the most terrifying feelings in the world.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. Can't even begin to imagine.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
I'm happy that you're-
- HPHayden Panettiere
It was the icing.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- HPHayden Panettiere
The icing on the cake. It was very, very thick. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
Um, I'm happy that you're protected and that you're taking the right precautions and measures because you're absolutely right, and just glad that you have the right people around you to see you through this.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
I've been... You know, I wanted to, there's only one last thing I wanted to say to you and, and, and ask you is just, you know, when you came in here, and I want to point this out because we've had to, we've, you've had to revisit for this conversation to talk about the book. We've revisited so many hard and dark moments in your life.
- HPHayden Panettiere
[laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
But when you came in today, you had this big smile on your face. You greeted me with a really warm embrace. You were so kind. When we walked over here, we were having wonderful conversations, and you were telling me just about this next chapter of your life and how excited you are to attract goodness into your life and attract love into your life, and just... And, and I could see it in your eyes, and, and y- you know, you are this light, as you said, as yourself in your journal. And I want people to know that, that I felt that and saw that when you came in because, you know, we, we've revisited the past that-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... that is, is tough and is talked about in your book, This Is Me. But when you write a book like this, it almost feels like the end of a chapter and the beginning of a new one as well.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
You kind of put all of this together-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Exactly, yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... and you share it. And I wanted to ask you that, what
- 2:01:17 – 2:04:09
Choosing Hope After Everything Falls Apart
- JSJay Shetty
would you, what would you want to call the chapter of this that you're entering into now-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Oh
- JSJay Shetty
... that, that you walked in with today that, that I got to experience?
- HPHayden Panettiere
I don't know yet. It was, uh, one of the hardest parts [laughs] of this too, was in, was figuring out what to call it. I felt like I couldn't come up with a name until I was already, until I was done with the process of the book. Sometimes people do it in the middle of the experience. Sometimes people do it, uh, they need a title before they start the process of writing, and I felt like I had to wait till, till the end. So, I mean, I would have to s- I feel like it would, to fi- come up with something good, I would, I would have to see where the, where the book went, see where my life is going to go because I, I, I finally feel like I have shaken off all of this, this darkness and this negativity, and that means that I've closed one door and another door is opened, and, and, and I can feel it open, and, and I can feel all the possibility.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- HPHayden Panettiere
All the possibilities, all the exciting possibilities. I've, I feel like I've a lot more life to live.
- JSJay Shetty
Absolutely. I think you're, you're one of the toughest and most vulnerable and bravest people who sat in that chair, and, uh, I really notice and acknowledge just how much work you've had to do to even be sitting here right now to share your story with this much grace-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah, it means a lot
- JSJay Shetty
... and courage. So thank you for trusting me. Thank you for being here, and I'm really looking forward for people to read this book, and I hope it reaches the people who, who really need it right now.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
People who may be caught in cycles that you found yourself in can break out, that it can protect others who-
- HPHayden Panettiere
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... are in the early stages of careers like yours.
- HPHayden Panettiere
I pray. I pray. I just wanted to help people. I'm, I, I, I want what I have gone through to be for a reason, to have happened, everything to have happened for a reason, and, and for that reason to be to help people, to help people go through whatever it is, whatever challenges they're facing, and to know that it's, it's possible. It can be done.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. Thank you, Hayden.
- HPHayden Panettiere
Thank you.
- JSJay Shetty
Can I give you a hug?
- HPHayden Panettiere
Of course.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. If you loved this episode, you'll really enjoy my episode with Selena Gomez on befriending your inner critic and how to speak to yourself with more compassion.
- HPHayden Panettiere
There's blessing in the breaking, and every moment that you encounter in your life, even if it's just road rage
Episode duration: 2:04:09
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