Jay Shetty PodcastHidden Ways Your Childhood Patterns Shape Your Marriage (Even If You Don’t See it Yet)
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
50 min read · 10,235 words- 0:00 – 1:28
Intro
- JSJay Shetty
On this show, I've been so lucky to sit down with some of the greatest experts on the planet, from when it comes to marriage, to romance, chemistry, compatibility, some of the therapists that are working with hundreds of clients worldwide, and people in the public eye who've opened up about their own experience. You're gonna get to hear from all of them in just a moment, so make sure you stick around. The number one health and wellness podcast. Jay Shetty.
- SPSpeaker
Jay Shetty.
- JSJay Shetty
The one, the only Jay Shetty. [laughs] When it comes to building a lasting marriage, most people think it starts with romance or chemistry, but it's actually something else. The real foundation to a lasting marriage is emotional resilience. Think about this. Nearly half of all marriages in the US still end in divorce. The number one reason isn't a lack of love. It's a breakdown in trust and communication. That's where everything starts to fall apart. In this episode, we're going straight to the heart of it, why people cheat and why they stay, why forever isn't a promise, it's a practice, and how redefining love might be the key to saving it. What you'll hear isn't fluff or wishful thinking, just hard-earned truths and relationship-saving lessons.
- 1:28 – 3:58
The Cornerstone of Family Life
- JSJay Shetty
Jada Pinkett Smith breaks down how marriage isn't a fixed identity. It's a spiritual evolution. She opens up about separation, reconciliation, and the patterns from childhood that shape adult love. The real lesson is this: You don't just arrive in marriage. It's not a finish line. You keep choosing each other over and over as you both grow and change, even when life gets messy. Especially with big life changes, one study found that 67% of couples report being less satisfied in their marriage after having children, unless they work intentionally to reconnect. As she describes here, you don't need a perfect partner. You need a partner willing to grow with you.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
[whoosh] We really look at our marriage as being the cornerstone of family. We're both kind of coming up with different definitions of what marriage means for us. We're still figuring all of that out.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Yeah, but the beautiful part is that there's been some really deep healing going on. Yeah. [laughs] I mean, you know, that... I mean, at the end of the day, that's what it's about. Marriage is so much about growth, like really learning how to grow emotionally, like emotional maturity, spiritual maturity, and there's this spiritual bond there. I mean, we've tried our best to get away from each other. I mean, I mean, our best, and we just don't want to.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
So we are defining it the way that works for us, and I think getting comfortable with not being concerned about what anybody else thinks about it.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
We have this life partnership, and every day we're trying to figure out what that means.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm. You've both talked about how you feel like you're a mirror for each other.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And when I've spoken to Will as well, it's like he feels like you're the person who knows him to his core.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Absolutely. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
And he know-
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... and he knows you to your core. Like, you know everything-
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... that potentially there is to know about each other.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Everything.
- JSJay Shetty
And you're obviously still learning.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Yeah.
- 3:58 – 8:44
When Divorce Feels Like the Only Option
- JSJay Shetty
What's really interesting about that is some people would say, "Well, why not just get divorced?"
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Yeah. Everybody's always like-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
... "Why don't you just get divorced?"
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
And it's like, mm, that's like quitting. I don't think there's any person that could embrace the best and the worst of me and be able, be willing to hold space in the way that Will holds space for me and the way that I hold space for him. And I know that most people probably go into their relationship as like, "You are here to please me." And yeah, our relationship isn't quite that. [laughs] You know, it's like, it's more about there's no greater mirror I could have than Will. He doesn't... I can't, I can't get around myself, just like he can't get around himself with me, and I think that that's just been what this has been all about. Like, it's been a deep clearing, like really having to look at yourself in ways in that mirror that, sure, we talk about this all the time. Would it be easier to go and find somebody else and have a more pleasing, more comfortable relationship? Maybe. But would that get me to the person that I really wanna be?
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
I don't think so, and I'm not saying that everybody's relationship is supposed to be that. I'm not here to say that. I'm just saying that that's what my relationship is.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
That's something I desire, to get to a, a deeper part, a more spiritually sound, emotionally sound, and really understand love unconditionally. And the thing that I've learned about unconditional love, you can't really understand what unconditional love in ideal circumstances [laughs] is.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
To really get to what it is to love yourself and someone else completely-With all that's divine, all that's human, all that's perfect, and all that is deeply flawed, and have full acceptance for it all. I tell you, this is [laughs] You know, marriage is not for the faint at heart
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
It's just not
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
And it is definitely, I believe, I believe, you know, different people get married for different reasons, so I'm not trying to say why anybody else should be married. But for me, the holy path of getting to a divine aspect of myself-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
... in partnership with Will, and it seems like Will wants the same for himself. And it's taken us, you know, I mean, we got together at what? I was 23. Okay. 23 when I first decided to commit myself-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
... to Willard Carroll Smith. Lord Jesus. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs] So young.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
So young. We were babies, babies trying to figure this out. And you know what's interesting about young relationships? You create these young patterns that get so, like these really young, immature patterns-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
... in yourself and how you relate to your partner, and then you create these dynamics between one another that it takes a while-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
... to, like, really be willing to look at that stuff and dissolve it and let it go and mature and grow.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
It takes some real, like, self-inventory, patience, courage. Right? Because you're breaking down everything.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
All your romantic ideas, everything you thought, you know, relationship or marriage-
- 8:44 – 14:14
The Power of Unconditional Love
- JSJay Shetty
normal setup. That's how we believe relationships are, and, you know, I've talked about it before, and I, I put it forward in my book, this idea that we think pleasure is the ultimate gift of a relationship, but really purification is. And that's a really tough idea for anyone, including me.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
I, like, I haven't perfected that idea, for me to wrap my head around. And I can honestly say that I love Radhi, and, you, you know, you, you've seen us both together and everything, but the greatest gift Radhi gives me is a mirror and a purification of, Radhi can call out my ego-
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... better than anyone or anything, and I know it's coming from a good place.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Uh, Radhi can show me my flaws in the nicest, most supportive way possible and can receive it back from me.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And then I feel like because of her I'm trying to be better, getting better, not for her-
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
That's right
- JSJay Shetty
... for myself.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
It's almost like the person that you live with knows you so deeply, or the person that you've seen, has seen you in all-
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
All
- JSJay Shetty
... circumstances-
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Yes
- JSJay Shetty
... in all situations, knows you the deepest. I always say, Radhi knows whether I woke up and meditated in the morning.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Like, Radhi knows whether I got angry or frustrated at night after a phone call. Like, Radhi knows that, and if I use that to my advantage of, am I becoming, am I growing? But it's such a hard concept for people to understand because it's, it's so counterintuitive to the pleasure-seeking mind that we've been conditioned to chase. And again, I'm not saying we shouldn't have pleasure in relationships.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Oh, absolutely.
- JSJay Shetty
That's, that's not the point I'm making. I'm just saying that there's more to it. There's another level.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
There's definitely more to it, and I think we've talked about this before, you and I, as far as people believing that romantic love is the highest form.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Now, I believe that romantic love is an aspect, right, of a higher form, but it c- I don't believe that romantic sel- romantic love itself is the highest form.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Right? I believe within the highest form you can have romantic love, but that romantic love is not of the highest.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Right? And that's all I've been examining and exploring with Will.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
And really trying to understand the power of unconditional love, friendship. Like, there's something about friendship, familial love that is beautiful, but when two people can have an agreement around divine love, like love of a source greater than yourself-
- 14:14 – 18:13
Valuing How People Show Up
- JSJay Shetty
that desire for romantic love but then hold onto the friendship? Because I feel like that's a journey that is so hard, whether someone stays married or gets divorced or like, like you both are. You described yourself as best friends.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
How did you hold onto friendship, being able to let go of the mirage that you had earlier, or even not even the mirage, the reality of what you had earlier, as you talk about in the book?
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
You know, the chemistry, the spark.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
I think so many of us are trying to hold onto that, but you've let go of that, and then you're saying, "But we've held onto the friendship, the, the mirror, the work, the growth." That sounds like the hard way through it.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
I think it's how people show up, and people don't always show up perfect.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Clearly. But one thing about Will and I, we're just not willing to give up.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
It's like I'm lucky that we just want to have each other in, in one another's life, right? You have moments of disharmony, but if you know that you're not willing to not have that person in your life, you know you gotta put forth the effort-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
... and you gotta put forth the work-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
... to transform whatever's not working. So we always make the decision to take that one step closer to diving more deeply, to learning how to love.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
And most of the time it has more to do with self-inventory, having to go in the corner [laughs] and look at oneself and then come back and go, "I was tripping."
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Whether it's I'm sorry, or I had a misunderstanding, can we look at this now together? Because now I've looked at it in my corner alone, and I've seen my part. And I wanna talk to you first about my part.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
A, B, C, and D, right? And then inevitably, usually your partner will go, "Well, you know-"
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
"... I could have done such and such and such." [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
And so when you have an agreement that's really unspoken of, like, "I want you in my life."
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
"And I wanna have good times with you."
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
"And I love you," then that's the energy that nurtures-
- 18:13 – 20:14
Every Marriage Looks Different
- JSJay Shetty
Agreed, yeah. But it just doesn't look traditional. I think that's the point. That's, that's the part where it's like it just doesn't look traditional. It works-
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Oh, yes. You keep-
- JSJay Shetty
There's, there's the trust. There's commitment.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
There's, there's understanding. And at the same time, it doesn't look-
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
It doesn't look traditional
- JSJay Shetty
... how you think it would look.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
I don't know. I'm gonna be honest with you. There are aspects-Of traditional relating that absolutely work.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
But I think in this day and age, I don't know too many marriages that are traditional.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
I really don't.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Everybody is trying to figure it out.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Right? And I think everybody's so scared to talk about all of the different ways that they're, that they're trying to figure it out.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
I know so many people who are, like, married but not living together.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Married but have decided to have other partners.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
I know so many people, and have for a long time, that are trying marriage in so many different forms.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
And my whole thing is figure it out for you.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Marriage is not a cookie cut out, like, uh, formula. Besides, I do think that there's some staples. [laughs] You know, love. But even that, let me take that out for a second.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
There's some people who are married strictly for business purposes.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
I've seen that, too. As long as there's agreement between two people in how they decide they wanna be together, stay out of it. It has nothing to do... I tell people all the time, "Don't look at my marriage as being contagious."
- 20:14 – 24:13
Rethinking Traditional Marriage
- JSJay Shetty
And it's so different in norms in different cultures and different backgrounds. I mean, like, for me and Radhi, we spend a lot of time apart because she likes to be back with her family in London, and I travel for work. And so we discovered and agreed very early on in our relationship that when I work, she would often visit her family back in London, and she loves it, and she's wants to be with her mom and dad and her niece and nephew and her sister and brother-in-law and everyone. And I love my purpose, and I wanna be traveling. I wanna be working. I wanna be moving. And I remember so many times in our relationship, people would be like, "Is everything okay?"
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Yeah. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
Like, and then we'd go back to London, people would be like, "Why is your wife not with you?" Or people were like, "Why is Jay not with you?" And everyone starts thinking that there may be something going on, and it's actually, well, no, this was our agreement. This is something we've sat and talked about and figured things out, and actually, we love distance 'cause we get excited to see each other again. It's refreshing. It works for us. And again, it may not work for anyone else. Someone may say, "I need my partner by my side every day." Fair enough.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Right.
- JSJay Shetty
And someone may say, "I wanna travel more than you do or less," but we just found that having honest conversations between us and knowing why we were making certain decisions, even though they were abnormal to our community-
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Right
- JSJay Shetty
... the community that we grew up in-
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Right
- JSJay Shetty
... where the way we live is very abnormal, even though it's just about time apart, the point was we had an agreement that worked for us. And I think getting to know you both, I, I can honestly say that I feel like you guys are both always honest and communicative with each other on what your agreements are.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Absolutely.
- JSJay Shetty
And that's what we have been discussing today as well, that, you know, there's, there's always been that, that openness to do that.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
Oh, yeah. Well, I talk about it a lot in the book.
- JSJay Shetty
Absolutely.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
And I think that a lot of people had a lot of misunderstanding, as, uh, we talked about earlier, I believe, in regards to open relationship and being able to be with whoever you want. No, that, that's not what was happening. And I think a lot of times that people just didn't know that we had agreed to not be together-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
... as we were trying to figure out, are we gonna be separated? Are we gonna be divorced? Then we would reconcile, and then we would break up again.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
And it's all this back and forth between us that we didn't share with the world a lot.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
You know? And I think now people are just gonna have to be okay with our marriage is not traditional in the sense of here we are, married but not. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm.
- JSJada Pinkett Smith
You know what I mean? And, you know, as I'm on my path and Will's figuring his thing out, we've decided to hold space for each other.
- JSJay Shetty
On eBay, every find has a story. Like, if you're looking for a vintage band tee, not just a tee, the band tee from the last show your favorite band ever played. You wore it everywhere, then your best friend started wearing it, which was cute until they unfriended you and took it with them, which was not so cool. Anyway, now you're on eBay, and there it is, same tee from the same tour still living in your memory rent-free forever. See? The things you love have a way of finding their way back to you. But eBay isn't just for getting whatever your ex or ex-best friend stole back. It's also for that rare championship foul ball you caught, then heroically gave to the kid next to you. And where else are you going to find your first car, the one you wish you never sold but now finally get the chance to take back home, for good this time? Shop eBay for millions of finds, each with a story. eBay, things people love. Relationship coach Sadia Khan shares a truth most people don't even think about. More men are being cheated on than we
- 24:13 – 26:19
Do Women or Men Get Cheated on More?
- JSJay Shetty
realize, but most of them stay silent. According to a study by the CDC, men are more than 50% less likely to seek counseling than women, which means they're more likely to internalize this shame and carry it forward. The lesson? Emotional reaction might feel good in the moment-But it doesn't solve anything. What actually protects a relationship is emotional regulation. Fireworks and passion fades, but stability, self-control, and discipline, that's what builds real trust and keeps a relationship strong. It's not just about you and your partner. Your relationship sets a blueprint for your kids, your family, your future. Who you pick as your partner sets the tone for the rest of your life. Cheating doesn't begin in the bedroom. It begins in emotional distance. Spot the signs early, or spend time repairing it far too late. What are the top three things that people you guide and coach and follow you on social media come to you for and say their number one issue is?
- SKSadia Khan
Oh, for men, they do suffer from a lot of infidelity with the women are cheating on the men.
- JSJay Shetty
No.
- SKSadia Khan
A lot more than I ever expected.
- JSJay Shetty
Really?
- SKSadia Khan
I, my-
- JSJay Shetty
That's blowing my mind right now
- SKSadia Khan
... my, my number one client is a man who's just been cheated on by a woman, and because there's not much talk about this on social media, and there's not much talk about this in general, we're almost programmed to think men cheat.
- JSJay Shetty
100%.
- SKSadia Khan
So yeah, w- it's rare that you'll find the, uh, the idea of women cheating, and men don't actually talk to each other when they've been cheated on. They kind of keep it to themselves 'cause they're almost embar- embarrassed or ashamed, whereas women, we can confide in each other a bit more. So my number one client tends to be the man that's been cheated on or the woman that can't get the man to commit. That tends to be the two, uh, uh, um, fields I kind of have, seem to attract in terms of clients. But men getting cheated on or men not being masculine enough tends to be the common theme of my clients that keep coming back in.
- JSJay Shetty
What's the difference between the woman a man dates-
- SKSadia Khan
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... and the woman a man marries?
- SKSadia Khan
I would say the key difference is the element of stability and responsibility,
- 26:19 – 27:59
Choosing a Man with Self-Control
- SKSadia Khan
and what I mean by that is being with a man who is super social, who's a big drinker, and has got all these friends and busy all day every day and got this amazing life is great for dates. You get to go on great vacations with him. You get to go to re- nice restaurants and so on and so forth. But when we get, when it comes to getting married, if you don't look for a man with a lot of self-control, you will really suffer, and what I mean by this is that he needs to have self-control in terms of his sexual discipline, he needs self-control in terms of what he puts into his body, even the food he eats, everything, and he needs self-control when it comes to his money. If in those areas he's got no self-control, for dating, no problem. It doesn't matter. Yeah, he can be sexually wild. He can spend all his money, no problem. You can enjoy a great life. When you marry a man like that, every day is anxiety. Every single day is anxiety because his lack of self-control will lead to a lack of self-respect, and as a result he'll have such low self-esteem that you can't trust him to make decisions. But men with lots of self-control, you can trust that they make great decisions. You can trust their judgment, and you can finally start a family or start your goals, but you can't do that with men who have got no self-control.
- JSJay Shetty
Do you know what the amazing thing is? That I... As I was listening to you, I was thinking about, like, men don't learn that anywhere.
- SKSadia Khan
No, they don't. No.
- JSJay Shetty
It's so hard. Like, if I never lived as a monk-
- SKSadia Khan
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... I wouldn't have any self-control.
- SKSadia Khan
What was your biggest lesson of, of living with monks?
- JSJay Shetty
I mean, a big part of it is sense control.
- SKSadia Khan
Mm.
- JSJay Shetty
Like, you don't, you don't... You eat what you're given.
- SKSadia Khan
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
You're celibate while you're there.
- SKSadia Khan
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
There's complete focus and determination on the path, and so there were so many amazing mental mastery tools that I gained in terms of discipline-
- SKSadia Khan
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... and organization that I don't know where else I would've learned them.
- SKSadia Khan
Can you excel as a man without self-control, do you think?
- JSJay Shetty
I don't think so.
- SKSadia Khan
It's an impossibility, isn't it?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- SKSadia Khan
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
No,
- 27:59 – 29:45
Why Sexual Discipline Matters
- JSJay Shetty
that's why I love what you're saying.
- SKSadia Khan
Yeah, so.
- JSJay Shetty
I just feel bad-
- SKSadia Khan
Mm
- JSJay Shetty
... 'cause I can't think of-
- SKSadia Khan
It's the opposite that actually we're told. Men are being told that be with as many women as you can, be, have zero se- sexual discipline, and, you know, you, you can kind of eat w- whatever, and there's always Ozempic, so don't worry about it, or there's... We're actually being told to reduce our i- like, our self-control and replace it with hedonism. Follow your impulses. You only live once. Just do it. That kind of mentality, whether it comes to drinking, when it comes to food, when it comes to money, just spend, spend, spend, all these things, unfortunately, we're pushing men into a slow and steady depression because we're reducing the importance of self-control and replacing it with self-indulgence, and that is a slow suicide for a man. He'll only start to respect himself when he can control himself, and, and then only when he can control himself, he can then excel, and if you pick a man who can't control himself, you'll spend the rest of your life trying to control him, and it will bring out the worst side of you. You'll become a mo-
- JSJay Shetty
Wow
- SKSadia Khan
... you'll become a mother to a child you never wanted to adopt.
- JSJay Shetty
Wow.
- SKSadia Khan
[laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
That mic drop.
- SKSadia Khan
[laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
That is-
- SKSadia Khan
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... no, that's so powerful.
- SKSadia Khan
Mm.
- JSJay Shetty
It's, uh... As I'm listening to you, I'm just sitting here thinking how much there is a need in helping men realize-
- SKSadia Khan
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... that mental mastery, sense control, discipline are-
- SKSadia Khan
Mm
- JSJay Shetty
... what's gonna find the right person, but I think the problem is men also believe-That if they're the life of the party-
- SKSadia Khan
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... if they're the big spender-
- SKSadia Khan
Mm
- JSJay Shetty
... if they're the big guy at the pa- that's what's gonna attract the right person.
- SKSadia Khan
It will attract a chaotic person.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- SKSadia Khan
There are women, lots of women, that will like that. There are lots and lots of women that will like that you're a big spender, you're spending on bottles, you're going drinking all night, and you're the life and soul of the party. But it will attract women who want a fast life, don't, probably don't wanna invest in you. They're probably not gonna be there when you're suffering and you're on a downward sp-
- 29:45 – 32:35
Don’t Ignore These Red Flags!
- SKSadia Khan
spiral. My, my reason I'm so strict on men when it comes to self-discipline, and sexual discipline in particular, is we live in a time where men don't really get a say in ... When a baby's born, it's not really up to them if that child stays or not. Women have the right, w- I, I don't know what it's like in America, but usually we get to control if we wanna keep the baby or don't wanna keep the baby. And as a result, we get some autonomy. If we, the r- if it's the wrong man, perfect, w- we don't have to suffer the consequences. But with men, if you get the wrong person, and you don't have a good relationship, and then you bring children into that mix, you create a generation of broken children, and you are more responsible for that. Yeah, because you have to be more careful than women do. Because we still have autonomy. We can get rid of a child if we need to. You can't really have that much say in it. So you have to be so disciplined with who you are laying down with. And if you r- I know men who've ruined their families just because they couldn't control themselves sexually, or just 'cause they couldn't have that wro- right conversation with their wife and say, "Look, I'm missing the intimacy. Maybe we should just part." Instead, they just light a flame into their own home, and then suffer the consequences. So sexual discipline is a really, really important one for men, followed by financial discipline.
- JSJay Shetty
But I've heard you say before that if someone cheats on you-
- SKSadia Khan
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... it's partly your fault.
- SKSadia Khan
I do say that.
- JSJay Shetty
And I wanted to hear your take on that-
- SKSadia Khan
I really say that
- JSJay Shetty
... to understand that.
- SKSadia Khan
Yeah, I know that sounds terrible, and I say this particularly with m- m- you know, men especially. I'm like, "It's always your own fault." And the reason I say that is most cheaters come with smoking guns on the first date. There's always some signal that their behavior was not transparent. And whenever you catch them cheating, usually it's as they say, "I always knew, because from day one they were like this." There was a ... And I always say people usually don't lie. They might say lies, but they show you their red flags pretty much from day one. And it might have been that they were in a relationship when you met them, or it might have been that you caught them in a few lies when you first got with them. You would've caught some signs that this person is capable of deeper lies. And when we ... I'm not saying you should always look for the bad, but when we keep ignoring poor behavior, what ends up happening is we are becoming distant from the truth. We are going into denial. I actually don't have a pro- Even if your partner is cheating, no problem. You have to have radical, radical relationship with the truth. And there are some women out there that are mistresses. They're so happy in that role, because they know the truth. They know that he goes there, spends time with his wife. I'll see him when I see him. Truth is really important, so the more you align yourself with truth, the more you won't actually get blindsided. But when you start missing red flags again and again, you haven't been intimate in months. No b- somebody's not coming home on time. Nothing's adding up, and you keep making excuses. Unfortunately, we create the environment for these types of people to flourish. It's almost better that you protect your own home and protect your own sanity. D- doesn't mean you become accusatory, but you know that your treatment is not what you're, what you appreciate. And if they continue like that, they don't have to cheat. Their behavior is enough for you to start setting a boundary, and the behavior is ... You don't need ... S- 'cause some cheaters will say, "Well, you can't prove anything." Cheaters will always want you to fi- catch them red-handed.
- 32:35 – 34:28
Staying Attuned to Your Partner
- SKSadia Khan
You, as the person, should say, "I don't need red-handed evidence. I can see your behavior's not treating me rightly." Stop them there before they get to the point where they're disrespecting you more and more.
- JSJay Shetty
That's where the gaslighting comes in, right?
- SKSadia Khan
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
It's like people get-
- SKSadia Khan
That's where the gaslighting is
- JSJay Shetty
... yeah, people get gaslit.
- SKSadia Khan
They do get gaslighted really heavily, and this is, uh, even as a psychologist, I know, you know when I'm, as a therapist, and this is where I have to be a lot more empathetic. Because I've had clients there that were like, "She keeps accusing me," and they're so, like, convincing that I'm like, "You need to stop accusing him. I don't..." And then she'll say, say to me afterwards, "I found out he was having an affair the whole time." So the gaslighting is very, very real. But the feeling they give you is always true. So they'll lie to you. What, their words, their lips will be there, but your feeling, that gut instinct that something's not right or they're lying to you, try and pay attention to that. And even if you never get evidence, that feeling i- is partly your partner's r- uh, responsibility to help soothe those anxieties, not make them worse. So fo- if you have that feeling, and they're just like, "Babe, like, whatever you need, like, to make you feel better, I have no problem. I've got nothing to hide." But if they get less and less transparent, try and pay attention to that.
- JSJay Shetty
What I'm hearing from you is if you pay attention to the signs that you're seeing-
- SKSadia Khan
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... you don't let yourself be in a position where you're taken advantage of.
- SKSadia Khan
That's what I'm saying. I'm saying know your partner better than they know themselves, so the moment they start changing, you spot it quicker than they can. And so, and I'm sure you have this with Radhi, where you probably know her so, so well, that it would be difficult for her to have a double life without you. You'd know her b- behaviors, the way she moves, or how she talks, how she kisses you, everything. You pay close attention. When you pay so much attention to your partner, it's quite difficult for them to live a whole double s- life without you catching on. So try and stay attuned as much as you can.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, every relationship has a rhythm. It has a pattern.
- SKSadia Khan
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And when the pattern's off, you check in.
- SKSadia Khan
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
I think one of the things I see in relationships struggling is, especially as they get longer term, is we don't recommit.
- SKSadia Khan
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
So life changes.
- SKSadia Khan
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
Right? Me and Radhi had a dating life. When we got married, we had to recommit
- 34:28 – 37:43
Talk About Marriage Before the Proposal
- JSJay Shetty
to a different way of living.
- SKSadia Khan
Yeah. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
When we got married, then we lived in New York. We had to recommit to a different way of living. We moved to LA, different way of living. It's almost like I've dated so many different people in Radhi.
- SKSadia Khan
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
As in she's evolved, she's changed. And, and same back at me probably-
- SKSadia Khan
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... to some degree. But I think we don't like it when our partner changes. We all want to feel better, to have more energy and more focus throughout the day. That's why I co-founded Juni, a sparkling adaptogenic drink made with powerful ingredients like ashwagandha and lion's mane. It's designed to boost your mood, support your focus, and give you natural energy, all without the crash. A new classic reimagined. We're so excited to officially launch our new lemonade iced tea flavor. When we created Juni, my goal was simple: I wanted to make drinks that help you feel balanced and energized without compromise. Our upgraded take on the classic Arnold Palmer is crisp, refreshing, and crafted with adaptogens to support energy, focus, and mood, all with zero sugar. Be among the first to try it. Available exclusively at drinkjuni.com, where you can use the code ONPURPOSE20 for 20% off your first order.Cheers to your daily mood boost. Psychotherapist Lori Gottlieb challenges the fantasy of a blind love. If you can't talk about marriage, money, and the future before the proposal, you're not ready. More than 53% of couples split because of too much conflict and arguing, while more than 70% break up because of a lack of commitment. It's impossible to form true commitment and conflict resolution without open and honest communication. The takeaway? It's easier not to be honest when the topic is uncomfortable, but vulnerability requires honesty, and ultimately, clarity is the most loving thing you can offer your partner. Our community had a lot of questions around was, what's the right amount of pressure for someone to get married or propose to you?
- LGLori Gottlieb
[laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
Because I think people get to this point where they feel like, "We've invested so much time. We're together, we're here, but this person is just not proposing. They're not getting... They don't, you know, they don't wanna get married," whatever it may be. And that gets to this point of this ultimatum of, like, and now there's even a TV show called The Ultimatum, which is all about people dealing with that period in their life. So what does someone do in that scenario where they feel there's good commitment, we're getting somewhere, but the other person isn't showing this excitement, enthusiasm, or even taking action on taking this relationship to the next level?
- LGLori Gottlieb
This is like that birthday party thing, where you feel like, you know, the other person should just know. Um, but we're not communicating about it. The fact that people don't talk about whether they want to get married before a proposal happens-
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- LGLori Gottlieb
... is insane to me. It just, it-
- JSJay Shetty
I'm glad you said it, yeah
- LGLori Gottlieb
... it makes, it makes no sense. That it shouldn't be a total surprise.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. [laughs]
- LGLori Gottlieb
[laughs] You should know that you are both on the same page.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, yeah.
- LGLori Gottlieb
And you should know that the other person is definitely gonna say yes.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- LGLori Gottlieb
That you've talked about this. So many people come to me for premarital therapy where they can talk about... 'Cause they know they want to get married, and maybe they wanna, they're not even having any
- 37:43 – 40:41
Why a Baby Won’t Fix a Marriage
- LGLori Gottlieb
problems. They just wanna talk about their families and how they're gonna blend their families, and the in-laws and the siblings, and, you know, this person and this personality, or they wanna talk about money, or they wanna talk about whether they wanna have kids and how many, and how that might work, or they wanna talk about balancing their careers, or they wanna talk about sex, and all the different things that might be hard to talk about before you get married that are so important. And they might not have the answers right now, but they're learning how to talk about these challenging topics.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- LGLori Gottlieb
And people say, "Oh, you're in therapy and you're not even married yet. Something must be terribly wrong." It's like, "No, something's terribly right."
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs] Yeah.
- LGLori Gottlieb
And so the fact that, that people s- are saying, like, "I really want this person to propose, but I don't understand why they're not," and they don't feel like they can ask the person, means you are not m- ready to marry that person. If you don't feel like you can bring this up and say, "Where are we? We've been together for this amount of time. I'm feeling this. I'm wondering where you are with this." And the person, you'll get so much information from. "I do want to marry you. I don't feel ready yet because of this, but I think I will feel ready in six months." Right? And then you have a choice. Do you wanna wait for that or do you not wanna wait for that?
- JSJay Shetty
Or never. They may say, "I don't."
- LGLori Gottlieb
Um, right. Or they might say, "Actually, I don't know how I feel about getting married. I don't know if I'm going to come around to that." You have a choice about what you wanna do with that. "I, you know, oh, I didn't realize that I, I thought I did wanna get married, but now I'm not so sure." Well, that's really important to know. Why? What's happening between us? So that conversation is so important. Or do you just wanna sit there scheming with your friends about how you can drop hints or how you can, like, analyze the behavior because the person did this, and what does that mean? That doesn't sound like the kind of marriage you wanna be in. Don't you wanna be in the kind of marriage where you can say to the person, "Hey, this is what I'm desiring. This is what I'm wanting. Where are you with this?"
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- LGLori Gottlieb
But that's such a basic conversation.
- JSJay Shetty
But that's so much healthier than an ultimatum, too, because I think we also get... Again, it goes back to what we were talking about earlier. You haven't given that regular check-in.
- LGLori Gottlieb
Right.
- JSJay Shetty
You haven't touched base. You don't really know what that person's belief system is around marriage or whatever else it may be. And all of a sudden, it's built up for you as this big thing.
- LGLori Gottlieb
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
And now you're like, "Okay, well, either you marry me or we're over." And then that's not comfortable for that person either, because now they feel they're forced into a choice, as opposed to a sense of, "How do you feel about this, and what are your thoughts about this?" Again, it comes back to we're so scared of appearing to be naggy.
- LGLori Gottlieb
Yes.
- JSJay Shetty
We're so scared of appearing to be high maintenance. We're so scared of appearing to be the one who's needy or desperate or whatever it may be, but we are feeling all of those things. I've had so many friends who were given the advice that if your relationship's not working out, have a baby and it will save it. And-
- LGLori Gottlieb
Terrible advice
- JSJay Shetty
... it's never made sense to me, because if your relationship's not working, now you have another relationship to take care of, who is
- 40:41 – 46:36
When Your Partner Doesn’t Stand Up for You
- JSJay Shetty
a new child. [laughs]
- LGLori Gottlieb
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
A new human being in the, in the world. And so how are you g- you're gonna give less attention to each other. You've already been given no attention. Now you have less attention t- to share with each other and more attention on this another being. I'm, I'm shocked that that advice still gets passed around, and people still see it as a viable solution to a bad relationship.
- LGLori Gottlieb
Yeah. Yeah, they think of it as, like, sunk cost. Like, we've been married this long, so we can't, we can't start over. We can't... You know, what do we do to save this? Let's have a baby. Because it's a distraction. They think, like, this'll be great. It's exciting. It'll bring some vitality and energy and aliveness into the relationship, when if you don't already have that aliveness and that vitality between the two of you, the baby is not going to provide that for you.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- LGLori Gottlieb
You're gonna get a lot of outside attention, like, "Oh, that's so great. Look at the baby."
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- LGLori Gottlieb
But in reality, you guys are going to have to be more of a team than you've ever been, and problem solve more than you've ever had to, and figure out how to create connection under much more challenging circumstances.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- LGLori Gottlieb
So it's the most counterintuitive-Advice, and, and I, I always tell people, "If you are not solid, do not bring another person into this family."
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. It's almost like you already don't have problem-solving skills.
- LGLori Gottlieb
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
You don't have collaboration skills, and now you're having to make choices on behalf of an entirely new human being, where the stakes are so high, and everything feels like it's personal of whether things are going well for the child or not.
- LGLori Gottlieb
Well, what happens is the pain Olympics start.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- LGLori Gottlieb
And what I mean is that, you know, "I had the baby all day. I have it harder. You didn't do this." "No, I had it harder 'cause I've been at work all day, and now I have to take over this, and you didn't have to work all day." Whatever it is, they vie for who has the most pain, and then they compete for it, and that becomes their relationship. You know, "You owe me because I won the pain Olympics today." "No, you owe me because yesterday I won the pain Olympics, and I never got my reward." And that becomes their whole relationship.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm-hmm. Yeah, one of the questions I ask people when they say to me, like, "Should we have kids now?" Or, "Is it the right time to have children?" I often say that I think we're asking the wrong question. Like, the question should be, do I know how my life is going to change, and am I ready for that, and am I aware of that, and are we aware of how our life is going to change to the point you're making of, well, who is gonna take the responsibility, and am I gonna feel like you're not helping out? And what does that look like? Again, having a conversation about it seems like the practical thing to do. Another relationship that seems to add more complexity since the beginning of time is in-laws.
- LGLori Gottlieb
Yes.
- JSJay Shetty
You mentioned it earlier that you have clients that come and see-
- LGLori Gottlieb
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... you for that. The amount of friends I've spoken to recently who have this challenge where they feel that their in-laws are too involved, their in-laws are not involved. When their in-laws are too involved, they're too controlling of either or one of the partners, or they have expectations. They have certain demands on time and holidays and where they're spent, and all of these kinds of things. What I found to be the core pain i- i- again, going back to our earlier conversation, is people feel their partner's parents are too involved, too demanding, too hands-on.
- LGLori Gottlieb
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
But they feel their partner can't stand up to their parents.
- LGLori Gottlieb
Mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
And their partner doesn't understand how it affects them. That's kind of where I've seen the main pressure that people are carrying. How does someone deal with the fact that they feel their partner doesn't defend them or stand up for them in front of their partner's parents, and therefore they feel their partner doesn't understand what they're going through?
- LGLori Gottlieb
I have gotten thousands of letters to my column and to my podcast about in-laws, and what I always say is, in-law issues are couples issues. So people think it's about the mother-in-law, the father-in-law. It's about the two of you, and if your partner, whose parent that is, cannot talk to their parent on your behalf, that's a couples issue.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- LGLori Gottlieb
So the person will say, "Oh, it's really not that bad." But if your partner is saying, "I am really struggling with this," and it's not your... You know, it's, it's not their parent, you need to talk to your own parent about this. You need to have your partner's back, and if you don't, your partner is going to feel that you are treating them the same way that their parent is. You might not be doing the same thing, but the fact that they don't have your support is going to pull you apart in this marriage. Because your partner, it's not about taking sides, it's about prioritizing this couple's relationship and saying, "Listen, when you do this, it makes my wife feel like she's not a good parent, or she's not a good wife. And you might have these values, Mom, and I understand that, but I don't want you saying those kinds of things. You can have whatever thoughts you have. Please don't say them to me or to my wife because I'm very happy with our relationship." And what you're really standing up for is the relationship. It's not just standing up for your partner. It's standing up for we understand each other. We can talk about these things with each other, and we do not want that kind of interference.
- JSJay Shetty
What do you do when your partner doesn't have the guts to do that, when they don't have the authority or the, the relationship with their own parents, which has constantly been they've been babied, they've been-
- LGLori Gottlieb
Mm-hmm
- 46:36 – 54:28
Building a Safe Space for Connection
- LGLori Gottlieb
in our lives." You're saying, "I want you in our lives. We both want you in our lives, but we want you in our lives in a way that makes us feel like we're enjoying our time with you. And if it becomes this thing where we're not enjoying our time with you, and it becomes problematic, we're gonna be spending less time with you, and Mom, I don't want that, and my wife doesn't want that. We both want to spend time with you. We just want it to be enjoyable."
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- LGLori Gottlieb
"So we're asking that you not talk about this," whatever the issue is, "or you not do this, or you not tell my wife to do this, or you not criticize, because that makes it not enjoyable, and then we're gonna see you less. And we love you so much that we feel comfortable saying this to you. If we didn't love you, and we didn't care how much we saw you, we wouldn't be bringing this up. I'm bringing this up because I love you, and I want to be able to see you."
- JSJay Shetty
Mm. Yeah.
- LGLori Gottlieb
And I think when people, when you set boundaries in a loving way, when you say, "I want to see more of you. I want to be able to continue to see you. I'm not pushing you away. I'm pulling you close, but the way to pull you close is to make sure that we have a good time together."
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. Yeah, and I find that sometimes, and, and it can be different in every relationship, but often this, at least in the people I know, the pressure often falls on-The man who feels like he's b- in between his mom-
- LGLori Gottlieb
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... and his wife-
- LGLori Gottlieb
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... in that, in that kind of a setup, or at least those are the ones that I'm aware of, and I'm sure it has... It takes all sorts of forms. But it's often quite a heavy pressure that I know a lot of men feel, and they're like, "I don't wanna let my mom down, and I don't wanna let my wife down, and now I'm stuck in between-
- LGLori Gottlieb
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... these two things." And it's almost like, "Who do I choose? And I feel like I have to choose a side."
- LGLori Gottlieb
Right. But you're not choosing.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- LGLori Gottlieb
You're actually choosing to bring everyone together.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- LGLori Gottlieb
You're saying, "I want us all to be able to be together. And so what I'm doing is I'm making sure that it... that we can spend more time together."
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. That's great advice, and I really hope that reframe is, kind of, you know, permeates. One of the things I imagine you see a lot in therapy is one partner has forced the other partner to come there. Maybe in couples therapy, it's hard for two people to feel equally as excited. Maybe if they're premarital-
- LGLori Gottlieb
Yeah. Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... that may be more equal. But when it's reactive, it's definitely one saying, "We need to go to therapy," and someone may feel forced. One thing I've found that a lot of people say to me is, "Jay, I just can't get my partner to open up." Like, whether it's in therapy, whether it's with me, I'm asking them, I'm talking to them, I'm just like, "I just wanna know what you feel." Like, even with the question you said earlier of like, "Hey, I, I have a dream to get married. What's your take on it?" And they'll be like, "I don't know." Or they'll, they'll go quiet when it's like, "Hey, we need to go talk to your parents about this because they're getting really involved," and they just go quiet. They don't know what to say. And they constantly feel that these... their partner doesn't have the capacity to open up, and I find this especially with young couples, where they're just like, "My partner doesn't have an emotional vocabulary." Like, they don't have the abil- How have you encouraged people in those scenarios to be able to open up or help their partners open up or create a safe space when a lot of people don't have that skill and that ability to actually even know what they're feeling and thinking?
- LGLori Gottlieb
Yeah. You have to create the space for that person to feel comfortable opening up. So often people who can't open up or have a hard time with it, they were not given the space before. So when they opened up, someone would say, "Oh, no, you don't feel that way." [laughs] Right? So when they were growing up, they'd say, you know, "I'm upset about this," or, "I'm sad about this," and the parent would say, "No, don't be sad. Let's go get ice cream." Right? So there was no space for the sadness. Or, "I'm really angry about this." "Oh, you're overreacting. You're so sensitive." So they don't tell someone that they're angry about something. Or, "I'm really worried about this." "Oh, don't worry, it'll all work out." Or, "What do you mean you're worried about that? Why are you always so worried about everything?"
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- LGLori Gottlieb
So they never felt like they had a space for their feelings to be received and held. We talk about in therapy the, the concept of feeling felt. What does it mean to feel felt? And I love that expression because I think that when you want someone to open up, they wanna feel felt. They wanna know that you're going to receive whatever they have to offer in a compassionate way and in a way that feels connecting.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- LGLori Gottlieb
So when you tell someone, "Tell me what you're feeling. Open up," that feels like so much pressure, as opposed to just, you know, being with them. So maybe you, you start with something like, "Hey, I'm feeling really this about this, you know? What was that like for you?" And they might say, "It was fine," 'cause they don't know. "Did you have a good time?" You know? Oh, "Did it make you sad when this happened? It made me sad, but maybe you didn't feel that way." You know, just, just helping them to have the vocabulary. There's this thing called a feelings wheel, and a lot of people only learned, like, with the colors, the primary colors, right? So red, yellow, blue, right? And then if you mix red and yellow, you get orange, and there's more nuance. And if you put more yellow, it becomes more yellowy orange, right? And so people only know, like, happy, sad, mad. But they don't know, like, I felt frustrated, I felt scared, I felt vulnerable, I felt anxious. But where did you feel the anxiety? Well, I felt it in my belly. I felt it in my chest, right? So there's so much nuance, and for people who don't open up, they often only have those three primary emotions, and then they don't really know how to describe what they're feeling. So you can mirror that for them and model that when you talk about your feelings. Like, I was really afraid of that, and I was really angry, but actually underneath the an- anger with my friend, I was feeling hurt, and I realized I was feeling really hurt by her behavior, and it seemed like I was angry. But I'm feeling really neglected. And so, you know, did you ever feel that way? Have you ever felt, you know... We- Whatever it is, but it just, like, it just becomes part of the air. It's not like, "Sit down, face me, and tell me how you're feeling. Open up to me."
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- LGLori Gottlieb
That feels like so much pressure. But it just, like, it's in the air, and they've never lived in that environment before, you have to remember. So it's just, this is a new planet that they've landed on, and here's... It's like a new, let's say it's a new city, and in this city, we speak a different language.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- LGLori Gottlieb
And we speak in the language of emotion.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
Episode duration: 54:29
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