HILARY DUFF Opens Up About Family, Disney, Divorce & Finding Love Again

Hilary Duff 0:00 I had, like, a great time being a child actor. I had a great time turning into a pop star. But it is not easy behind the scenes, and there's so much that goes on in ways that you feel out of control. This time around, I get to pick how much crazy I can tolerate.

Jay Shetty 0:16 Mm.

Hilary Duff 0:17 Everybody has their reasons, and relationships are difficult, especially with your family.

Jay Shetty 0:21 Especially.

Hilary Duff 0:23 As painful as it feels to share, when I decided to make this record, I could only talk about the things that I've gone through.

Jay Shetty 0:34 Hey, everyone. Welcome back to On Purpose, the place you come to become happier, healthier, and more healed. Today's guest is someone that we have been excited for such a long time. The energy in the studio has been electric for her arrival, and I'm not being hyperbolic or over-hyping it. I really, really mean it. I'm speaking today to the one and only Hilary Duff, actress, singer, author, and entrepreneur whose career has grown up alongside an entire generation that I seem to have in my office. Uh, first-

Hilary Duff 1:04 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:04 ... known to many as Lizzie McGuire, she's continued to evolve as an artist and storyteller, balancing creativity, family, and reinvention. Hilary is now entering a new chapter with her sixth studio album, Luck or Something, her first full-length release in over a decade, out February 20th 2026. And you can see her on her Lucky Me Tour world tour kicking off this June. Do not miss out. We'll put the link to the tickets, uh, in the bio. Thank you so much, Hilary Duff. Welcome to On Purpose.

Hilary Duff 1:34 I'm so excited to be here. Thank you.

Jay Shetty 1:37 We are very excited.

Hilary Duff 1:38 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:38 I, I cannot tell you. I, I, I want to tell you because it's so important. I woke up this morning and everyone's like, "You know this is our Super Bowl, right?" And I was like, "What?" Like, I was trying to figure out when did it... And they're like-

Hilary Duff 1:47 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:48 ... "Hilary Duff is coming to..." Like, that was the reaction.

Hilary Duff 1:50 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:50 Like, people were like, "This is our Super Bowl. Forget this weekend."

Hilary Duff 1:53 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:53 "No one cares."

Hilary Duff 1:54 Come on. That's so sweet.

Jay Shetty 1:55 Like, the excitement in the house, and everyone, everyone wants pictures. Everyone has asked my permission.

Hilary Duff 1:59 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:59 I was like, "I will ask Hilary."

Hilary Duff 2:00 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 2:01 I usually don't allow... You know, it's just, but the energy around the excitement that you bring to people-

Hilary Duff 2:05 Yeah

Jay Shetty 2:06 ... I mean, how does that feel? Because you've done it for so long, but you still bring this, like, really electric energy to everyone who's a fan of yours and has been for so long.

Hilary Duff 2:13 I swear to God I'm not trying to do an album plug right now, but I just feel lucky. I feel like whatever reason my purpose is to be here is, like, to connect with people, and I've had the joy of being able to do it for 20-plus years, and some of that's felt high and some of that's felt low. But I genuinely feel like people are excited to, like, meet me and say hi and, like, have a quick moment, and it just feels like... It feels normal. Like, it feels really, like, genuine always, and, and I'm always met with that, and it's a really... You know, I'm not saying it's not a big responsibility sometimes. But, you know, being, being met with, like, excitement and, and someone being like, "You've meant so much to me," it's-

Jay Shetty 2:59 Mm-hmm

Hilary Duff 2:59 ... it's a lovely feeling.

Jay Shetty 3:00 Mm-hmm. Yeah, no, it's definitely there. I've got... People have got stories of coming to your tours at 13 years old and-

Hilary Duff 3:05 Yeah

Jay Shetty 3:05 ... saying ridiculous things to you, like in my team.

Hilary Duff 3:08 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 3:08 Uh, and, and meeting you for a few moments and just having the best experiences. But I was thinking, yeah, you've, you've meant this for 25 years. You've had... You've been so many things to so many people through the characters you've played, the music.

Hilary Duff 3:18 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 3:18 Of course, now your new album.

Jay Shetty 3:20 What's the version of Hilary Duff that you want people to meet now at this point in your life?

Hilary Duff 3:25 Part of the reason this, you know, return to music is feeling so good to me is just that it's, like, feels completely, like, rooted in my truth-

Jay Shetty 3:35 Mm

Hilary Duff 3:35 ... and who I am and what I live with, and, you know, introducing people to my past 10 years and knowing that we are gonna connect on many levels of experiences and feelings and disappointments and celebrations and, like, everything in between. So that, that's kind of what I want them to know about me now and who I want them to, to meet. Like, they have known me my whole life. I have, you know, played a character that never grew up on TV.

Jay Shetty 4:04 [laughs]

Hilary Duff 4:04 You know, she stayed that same age, and-

Jay Shetty 4:06 Yeah

Hilary Duff 4:06 ... not that I feel that that's, like, the public consensus around me anymore. I think people are pretty familiarized with me and who I am. But I care a lot less, and I feel like truth is more important than, like, politeness-

Jay Shetty 4:22 [laughs]

Hilary Duff 4:22 ... and all of, all of that. So that's what the record feels like to me, and that's kind of just how I feel comfortable moving through the world, you know? I don't know if that's just with age or being a mom of four or being in a settled relationship or being in the industry for as long as I have with many ups and downs.

Jay Shetty 4:41 Yeah. It's, uh, I feel like people are getting to meet a, uh, mature-

Hilary Duff 4:47 Mm

Jay Shetty 4:47 ... uh, real version of you-

Hilary Duff 4:50 Mm

Jay Shetty 4:50 ... and one that is very accepting and embracing of this amazing journey you have had, which is so beautiful. I think as humans we tend to have this perspective of like, "Well, now I am who I am, and I've, like, given up everything." And I feel like you have this beautiful way of being like, "I love those experiences, and they mean so much to me, and now everyone gets to come on the journey with me."

Hilary Duff 5:08 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 5:09 At least what I'm hearing.

Hilary Duff 5:10 I think that's true. I think that's absolutely true, and I get to, like, keep the pieces that still work for me and, you know, obviously continue to grow, but I, like, move with, like, a confidence and, like, a knowing that just occurred, you know?

Jay Shetty 5:25 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Hilary Duff 5:26 Also, also compiled with, like, a messy [laughs] insecurity-

Jay Shetty 5:30 [laughs]

Hilary Duff 5:30 ... and all of those things are just, like, what makes up the feeling accepting of all the, the things that come our way and that, like, we discovered on, on our path,

Hilary Duff 5:40 you know?

Jay Shetty 5:40 I'm always fascinated by, especially for people who've been in the public eye for so long, like, the experiences that they had that we were less aware of, and I wanted to ask you, what's a childhood experience you have that you feel defines who you are today?

Hilary Duff 5:53 This is so random-

Jay Shetty 5:54 [laughs]

Hilary Duff 5:54 ... but, like, just, like, a huge standout memory for me in my childhood is, like, catching tadpoles in Tic Tac boxes in New Braunfels in Texas, and it was something that we did after school, like, almost every day. It's a huge part of meFeeling like I have my feet on the ground constantly, even in this, you know, kind of out of body experience of a career that I've had and like navigated through. I think like being from Texas and being so normal and kinda grubby and dirty like is a part of my personality that has helped me just be that and not be kind of what can happen, you know, with 25 years in the industry.

Jay Shetty 6:38 Yeah. Yeah. That's almost what's helped you stay grounded.

Hilary Duff 6:40 I think some of those like early childhood memories of having like a lot of like freedom and I really never thought that I would raise my kids in LA, and we're having a great time, but, you know, I grew up very different than this, and I'm happy to have those roots.

Jay Shetty 6:53 Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. I- I'm gonna come to you for all the tips.

Hilary Duff 6:56 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 6:56 Uh, I, I have some- I-

Hilary Duff 6:57 I'm still figuring it out.

Jay Shetty 6:58 [laughs]

Hilary Duff 6:58 But I do know a lot.

Jay Shetty 7:00 Yeah. I, I will say that I have some of my favorite people who grew up here, like I have a peop- couple of people on my team who... Obviously, I'm born and raised in London, and I-

Hilary Duff 7:06 Mm

Jay Shetty 7:06 ... only moved to LA eight years ago. But I have a couple of members of my team that were like born and raised in LA and like went to all the school, and they're just like phenomenal human beings and-

Hilary Duff 7:14 People, yeah

Jay Shetty 7:15 ... yeah, just like the sweetest, salt of the earth humans, and it's, it, it's such a wonderful thing to kind of redefine what it means-

Hilary Duff 7:23 To be like an LA person?

Jay Shetty 7:25 Yeah. Well, like-

Hilary Duff 7:25 Yeah

Jay Shetty 7:26 ... in the, like you said, of somebody who's been in the industry for 25 years and-

Hilary Duff 7:28 Right

Jay Shetty 7:29 ... have you, did you ever think

Jay Shetty 7:30 about that along the way, like on the journey of like what am I holding onto and what am I losing or what am I keeping? Did you have to think about those things?

Hilary Duff 7:37 You lose anonymity.

Jay Shetty 7:39 Mm.

Hilary Duff 7:39 You know? Like I've completely lost that. I've lived, you know, pretty much in the public eye since I was 10, and probably around 15 was when I feel like the world started getting very like interested in what I was wearing, who I was dating, what I was eating, w- where I was. Like, that was an interesting kind of thing to navigate where I feel like I lost some serious innocence, you know?

Jay Shetty 8:06 Mm.

Hilary Duff 8:06 Where you're just like, "Oh my God." And then you get a lot of people constantly talking about your life and seeing it on the cover of magazines and all of that stuff. Like, that was a really strange period to also be like forming as a person privately, and some of those like lines get blurred where you're like, "I'm, I am this, but I am this," and I-

Jay Shetty 8:27 Yeah

Hilary Duff 8:27 ... you know. I think I've lost a lot, and I think I've gained a lot. Like, I wouldn't change it, but I've become very tough. Like, it's, it's not a, it's not a easy, it's not a easy industry.

Jay Shetty 8:41 Mm.

Hilary Duff 8:42 And I think it's not very easy for other people to deal with you in this industry.

Jay Shetty 8:46 What do you mean by that part?

Hilary Duff 8:47 I think it looks very like shiny, and for other people to cope with how it looks is a tricky thing to navigate.

Jay Shetty 8:58 Yeah. Was there a time when everything felt like it was a dream from the outside, like you're saying shiny, but for you, you were having to really grapple with some stuff behind the scenes?

Hilary Duff 9:08 Through all of it-

Jay Shetty 9:09 Yeah

Hilary Duff 9:09 ... you know?

Jay Shetty 9:09 Yeah, yeah.

Hilary Duff 9:10 Navigating people is like tricky, and that's not em- it, it wasn't like all negative. I think I had like a great time being a child actor. I had a great time like turning into a pop star.

Jay Shetty 9:22 Mm-hmm.

Hilary Duff 9:22 Like, but it is not easy behind the scenes, and there's so much that goes on and, and ways that you feel out of control. And, and now, you know, I have my own life and my family and my family that I've created, and, uh, it's really nice to have that pillar.

Jay Shetty 9:41 Yeah.

Hilary Duff 9:41 Because all the other stuff, now this is like fun. This... I mean, no, it is hard work.

Jay Shetty 9:45 [laughs]

Hilary Duff 9:45 And to be honest, my friend, one of my, my friends is, is Meghan Trainor, and she-

Jay Shetty 9:51 Yeah

Hilary Duff 9:51 ... she texted me the other day and she's like, "I just want you to know, you have made this look seamless."

Jay Shetty 9:57 Nice.

Hilary Duff 9:57 "And I'm so impressed, but I know that it's hard as hell."

Jay Shetty 10:01 Mm.

Hilary Duff 10:01 I honestly was like, "Thank you so much for saying that." I've had the stomach flu. I like flew all my kids out 'cause I miss my family so much, but like they all have like coughs and stuffy noses, and I have to like sing on stage at night, and we got trapped because of weather, and then all my gear and my crew and my... Like, it's just all so crazy. But I think that this time around I get to pick how much crazy I can tolerate.

Jay Shetty 10:24 It's probably more comforting to hear that someone sees the hardship than you make it look easy.

Hilary Duff 10:29 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 10:30 It's almost like hearing make it look easy, you're like, "Oh, but..." You know, on the inside it's- it's never that. And it's almost like the easier it looks, the harder it must be. You were reminding me of I, I listened to this TED Talk years ago, and it was this model, I forget her last name, but her name's Cameron something. And the TED Talk is called Looks Aren't Everything. Trust Me, I'm a Model. And it's this really fa-

Hilary Duff 10:51 Oh, wow.

Jay Shetty 10:51 It's, yeah-

Hilary Duff 10:51 What a great title

Jay Shetty 10:52 ... yeah, it's fascinating. And she's, she's a brilliant speaker, and she really, she talks about kind of what you were just saying. Like, so she shows images of what modeling she was doing, and then she tells us what age she was and shows us a real picture of that time. And obviously models are different because, like, with you, people are seeing all of your life. In one sense with a model, you're only seeing the picture of them on a campaign.

Hilary Duff 11:13 Right.

Jay Shetty 11:13 And at that time we weren't really following models on social media or wherever else, and so she shows like, "This is a picture of me at 14," like smiling with her parents.

Hilary Duff 11:21 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 11:21 "And then this is a picture of me at 14 modeling," and she's like romantically posing with this guy. And, and it, and it, and she's talking about how much of a disconnect there was between her real life and, and the life-

Hilary Duff 11:33 Yeah

Jay Shetty 11:33 ... that as a, as a model she was portraying.

Hilary Duff 11:35 Right. Also, when you're a model, you don't get to be like, "I'm not really comfortable wearing that."

Jay Shetty 11:39 Yeah.

Hilary Duff 11:40 "I don't really wanna do that pose." I- you're, you're a model, right?

Jay Shetty 11:42 Yeah.

Hilary Duff 11:42 So they're like, "N- no. [laughs] We're hiring you to... This is what we wanted," and then, right? It's a little different to be like an actor who, who's posing in a photo shoot.

Jay Shetty 11:51 Yeah, yeah. That di- yeah, that direction of just not having agency, not having choice-

Hilary Duff 11:56 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 11:56 ... especially at that age. And I was thinking about for you, you've talked v- very openly about the eating disorders you had and just like what that looked like and how, you know, at the time so many people were pit against each other, and the c- the culture-

Hilary Duff 12:08 Yeah

Jay Shetty 12:08 ... was different. Hopefully it's different. You can tell me if it is. But that, that's what it felt like at the time. What was it

Jay Shetty 12:13 like for you to get comfortableBeing comfortable in your own skin. Like, like what did that take? Like, today you're saying like, you know, "It's not easy. It's still hard work, but I'm kind of in control. I'm in charge. Like, I feel better." But-

Hilary Duff 12:23 Yeah

Jay Shetty 12:24 ... talk to me about some of the stops on that journey and what that looks like for so many people who may not grow up in the public eye but also deal with the same challenges.

Hilary Duff 12:33 I feel like I've actually always had quite a bit of, like, self-confidence-

Jay Shetty 12:37 Mm

Hilary Duff 12:37 ... and a good... This is such, such a lame term, but like a good head on my shoulders.

Jay Shetty 12:42 Yeah. No, no.

Hilary Duff 12:42 But I, I, I have. I, you know, I... In my friend groups when I was a teenager, I was like pretty confident, but like also mixed with the insecurities of, like, your teenhood and your, your 20s or-

Jay Shetty 12:55 Mm

Hilary Duff 12:55 ... your early 20s. Like, of course those normal things came up, and then on top of it I was dealing with, like, yes, people commenting on my body at a young age and starting to get photographed and people, like, asking you how many times you weigh yourself or comparing you to people that were thinner than you or other girls, you know, in your, like, line of work. And I definitely struggled for a little while there just trying to fit a certain mold and have control over something in my life. Thankfully, that was, like, pretty short-lived, um, but definitely toyed with it during a time of, like, I'm on tour, I'm filming a movie, I'm do- you know, a, like, a lot of moving parts to my life and just trying to also, like, form as a, as a person.

Jay Shetty 13:48 Mm.

Hilary Duff 13:48 Honestly, I think it took just time-

Jay Shetty 13:52 Mm-hmm

Hilary Duff 13:52 ... and bigger things happening in my life that, like having children, that took the spot of the other things that didn't mean as much to worry about. And luckily, those things felt easy to me to replace.

Jay Shetty 14:06 Mm-hmm.

Hilary Duff 14:07 I think having success at such a young age makes making, like, work choices a little harder 'cause there's, like, a pressure of a level of success. And I think once I did have kids and, you know, my phone wasn't ringing as much and I wasn't able to show up to work as much and say yes as often, I ended up just saying no a whole bunch-

Jay Shetty 14:29 Mm

Hilary Duff 14:30 ... and not being worried about, like, sitting still, and a lot of great things came from that decision.

Jay Shetty 14:36 Mm.

Hilary Duff 14:36 And a lot of confidence came from that decision. A lot of my steadiness has come from being in such a great, stable relationship. That's helped me a whole bunch-

Jay Shetty 14:47 Mm

Hilary Duff 14:47 ... get through some pretty heavy themes in my life.

Jay Shetty 14:50 Yeah. I'm excited to hear about that more, especially after what you told me earlier, but [laughs] where, where, yeah, when we walk in.

Jay Shetty 14:56 Where did that early confidence come from, that good head on your shoulders? And I, and I love that, and I think so many... And the reason I ask it is there are so many young people who listen to our show, or young parents-

Hilary Duff 15:06 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 15:06 ... with young kids who want their kids to have that good head on their shoulders and have that confidence. Where did that come from for you, and how were you able to hold on to it?

Hilary Duff 15:17 I think a part of it is who you are.

Jay Shetty 15:20 Mm-hmm.

Hilary Duff 15:21 Um, and then I think a whole bunch of it is your influence around you, you know? And I, I had a mom who was very supportive of a dream, you know, and she made me take it seriously because it was a big change for our life to, like, leave Texas and come to LA, but she also didn't... Our, like, livelihood wasn't weighted on whether or not I booked a job or not.

Jay Shetty 15:52 Mm.

Hilary Duff 15:52 You know?

Jay Shetty 15:53 Mm-hmm.

Hilary Duff 15:53 And I think that I found confidence in work and working, you know, but I think it was a little more weighted. But, like, when I see my son play a really good soccer game, I see his confidence building.

Jay Shetty 16:11 Mm.

Hilary Duff 16:12 And when I see, you know, he is the captain of his football team at his school, uh, sorry, f- soccer team at his school, and he's-

Jay Shetty 16:19 No, it's football. You can say that here. [laughs]

Hilary Duff 16:22 [laughs] You're like, "You had to write the first time."

Jay Shetty 16:23 Yeah. I was like, "Yeah, we don't need to edit it." Sorry.

Hilary Duff 16:25 Um-

Jay Shetty 16:25 I had to. I'm sorry.

Hilary Duff 16:26 He- I see his confidence build.

Jay Shetty 16:28 Mm.

Hilary Duff 16:28 When I... You know? So I, I think it was just that. Like-

Jay Shetty 16:33 Mm

Hilary Duff 16:33 ... mine happened to be acting, but those things were confidence builders. At times they were confidence strippers.

Jay Shetty 16:42 [laughs]

Hilary Duff 16:42 I had a lovely support-

Jay Shetty 16:44 Mm

Hilary Duff 16:45 ... system, and I also got to be a kid. Like, I, that wasn't all taken away. I had, like, normal friends.

Jay Shetty 16:51 Mm-hmm.

Hilary Duff 16:51 And I felt the highs and lows of friendship and being confident and not confident and dating and all of that stuff. I don't know. I think some, some of it you're born with and some of it is, like, what is, what you're surrounded by and what you, what's modeled for you.

Jay Shetty 17:06 Yeah. We, we were talking about this a bit earlier off camera, but I was saying that, like, I feel like a lot of confidence I g- g- when I was a kid came from the fact that I always knew my mom would catch me if I was to fall. So it didn't come from feeling like I would never fall-

Hilary Duff 17:18 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 17:19 ... because I had challenges and got bullied or different things would happen anyway, right, as it does in any kid's life.

Hilary Duff 17:24 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 17:25 But I always knew my mom would catch me, and that was, like, such... And even as a grown man today, I'm like, "I know if I called my mom, she would still catch me today," like, after all those years.

Hilary Duff 17:34 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 17:34 And that, it does build such a sense of confidence. And then I think the other side of what you're saying, which I appreciate, which I think we're finally realizing, is that confidence does come from competence. It comes from doing hard things and putting-

Hilary Duff 17:46 Yeah

Jay Shetty 17:46 ... yourself out there and taking action. And for you, it's acting. For your son, it's playing soccer. And those steps and seeing yourself go out there and play a game, there's confidence that comes from building a skill or-

Hilary Duff 17:57 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 17:57 ... building competence that-

Hilary Duff 17:59 Yeah

Jay Shetty 17:59 ... doesn't come from just sitting there and thinking about it or, you know, hoping that you naturally feel that way because people may not be born that way.

Hilary Duff 18:06 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 18:07 And so both of those ideas resonate.

Hilary Duff 18:09 Matt and I talk about this with the kids all the time, and it could be as simple as, like, them going and making their own water instead of just being like, "I'm thirstyAnd we're like, "Oh, let me do it for you." You know? Like, sometimes we do, of course. We, we like our kids to-- we like to take care of our kids, but, you know, we have the conversation a lot that's like the more they, they do, the more they can do, and the b- more you can do, the better you feel-

Jay Shetty 18:32 Mm-hmm

Hilary Duff 18:32 ... about yourself, you know?

Jay Shetty 18:34 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hilary Duff 18:35 So, um, just being-- trying to hold them accountable to be competent for their level-

Jay Shetty 18:41 Yes

Hilary Duff 18:41 ... is something that I feel like helps form your confidence.

Jay Shetty 18:45 Yes.

Hilary Duff 18:46 And, like, [chuckles] will make us feel okay about sending them off into the world at some point.

Jay Shetty 18:50 [laughs] I remember, I'm not recommending this, and I'm not condoning this at all. I just remember I had friends who were parents, and, and they had this particular methodology that they were training their kids with. But we were sitting on one side of a table and hanging out, and their child was, like, playing with a candle on the other side.

Hilary Duff 19:04 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 19:05 And, and my natural instinct, I don't have kids, and my natural instinct was to go take the kid away from the candle because obviously there's fire and y-

Hilary Duff 19:12 Yeah

Jay Shetty 19:12 ... the natural instinct. And they were like, "No, no, no, just leave it." Like, "They're g- they're just playing and figuring it out." [laughs] And I was like, "Wow," like, "that's really bold." But-

Hilary Duff 19:19 You're like, "Look, she's wearing a ponytail." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 19:20 Yeah, exactly. [laughs] I was like, wow, like, you know. And, uh, the hair was very short then. She didn't, she hadn't grown her hair out.

Hilary Duff 19:26 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 19:26 But she was, like, two years old or something.

Hilary Duff 19:28 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 19:28 Or maybe three, and I was just like, yeah, it's ... Not, again, not recommending, not condoning, not, not saying that's a good thing. I'm just saying that there is something to be said for being competent at your age and your level of experience-

Hilary Duff 19:39 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 19:40 ... and providing that to your children. It feels like your, what you've been saying about your relationship right now, you've said it a few times, like, it's built such a foundation-

Hilary Duff 19:47 Yeah

Jay Shetty 19:47 ... for you to go through so much.

Jay Shetty 19:50 What is it that creates a foundation of strength and peace in a relationship for you from your experience?

Hilary Duff 19:56 [sighs] Could talk about this for hours.

Jay Shetty 20:00 [laughs] That's a good thing, right?

Hilary Duff 20:01 I think it is time and just getting to the place where you can be in the trenches with someone, and they can know everything and accept-

Jay Shetty 20:17 Mm

Hilary Duff 20:18 ... everything and help you move through things in the best way. I mean, for me, I think Matt and I's ... I always loved hanging out with him. I loved... He'd made me laugh like crazy. Like, he was such a s- he just kept showing up for me over and over again. And, um, I think coming out of, you know, being divorced and being a young mom and having a lot of stuff happen in my family life, I think I was just, like, not ready for super health [laughs] yet.

Jay Shetty 20:49 Mm-hmm.

Hilary Duff 20:50 And someone who was, like, totally nice to me-

Jay Shetty 20:52 [laughs]

Hilary Duff 20:52 ... and wanted to, like, have, like, a healthy relationship and, and, and just, like, keep showing up, I guess. And so it took us a little while to... Well, it took me a little while to just, like, I think, accept something good.

Jay Shetty 21:04 Mm.

Hilary Duff 21:05 And it wasn't until we had Banks, which is our seven-year-old, that I feel like I really, like, could settle in to the relationship when I realized, like, the kind of parents we were and how we were doing as parents together. I really remember, like, just feeling like my shoulders could be like [sighs] and it was really, like, really a nice weight off. Um, and then, like, our relationship from there continued to just be, like, emotional shelter, [laughs] you know, instead of dramatic. Like, craving those younger dramatic highs and lows and just feeling better in the, like, steady.

Jay Shetty 21:45 Mm.

Hilary Duff 21:45 Which also comes with challenges, and I talk about those challenges a lot on Luck or Something.

Jay Shetty 21:50 Mm.

Hilary Duff 21:50 It's nice to be where we are right now and know that some of those highs and lows feel like a snapshot of a timeframe instead of a continual struggle.

Jay Shetty 22:00 Mm-hmm. On eBay, every find has a story. Like, if you're looking for a vintage band tee, not just a tee, the band tee from the last show your favorite band ever played. You wore it everywhere, then your best friend started wearing it, which was cute until they unfriended you and took it with them, which was not so cool. Anyway, now you're on eBay, and there it is, same tee from the same tour, still living in your memory rent-free forever. See? The things you love have a way of finding their way back to you. But eBay isn't just for getting whatever your ex or ex-best friend stole back. It's also for that rare championship foul ball you caught, then heroically gave to the kid next to you. And where else are you going to find your first car? The one you wish you never sold, but now finally get the chance to take back home, for good this time. Shop eBay for millions of finds, each with a story. eBay: things people love. Momentum isn't created by doing more. It's created by doing the right things consistently. March is when clarity and commitment begin to compound. The habits you've formed start to feel natural. Your idea starts to feel real. Shopify supports your business goals as your momentum builds, whether you're refining your offering, sharing your story, or serving your first customers. It's built for people ready to invest in themselves, from a simple idea to a growing brand. I speak from experience when I say Shopify gives you the tools to turn intention into action at your own pace. It doesn't matter if you're selling a few products or a full catalog. Shopify handles it all. With thousands of customizable templates, your site can reflect your vision, personal, intentional, and aligned, without starting from scratch. If you're just starting, you're not behind. Shopify removes the complexity of payments, operations, inventory, reporting, so you can focus on learning, building, and showing up consistently.Shopify Sidekick, their AI tool, acts like a co-founder, helping you with campaigns, content forecasting, and more. As your customers evolve, Shopify helps them discover you, whether it's on social platforms or now even directly in ChatGPT. When we started Juni, Shopify was there every step of the way. They grow with you, so your business momentum feels sustainable, not exhausting. Build steady momentum with tools that support your purpose. Visit shopify.com/jay.

Jay Shetty 24:38 I love what you said about that feeling that I think we all go through when you find your person. I've been with my wife for 13 years now, married for 10.

Hilary Duff 24:46 Congrats.

Jay Shetty 24:46 Uh, thank you. And yeah, it's our 10th wedding anniversary this year, and so-

Hilary Duff 24:49 Amazing

Jay Shetty 24:49 ... it's really exciting to celebrate. But, like, when, when I think about it that way, it's like, it's... I love what you said about this point that when you first meet someone who actually loves you and is kind to you, and-

Hilary Duff 25:00 It's really hard to accept

Jay Shetty 25:01 ... it's really hard to accept.

Hilary Duff 25:03 Mm.

Jay Shetty 25:03 Both based on how others have treated us and how we've treated ourselves.

Hilary Duff 25:06 Right.

Jay Shetty 25:06 Feel like it's a mix of both of those experiences.

Hilary Duff 25:08 I agree with that.

Jay Shetty 25:09 Right? Like, 'cause-

Hilary Duff 25:10 Yeah

Jay Shetty 25:10 ... it's almost like you're wrestling with it. I don't know. Is that how I've felt before in the past? Is that how you'd describe it? How would you describe it?

Hilary Duff 25:16 Yeah. And you wanna, like, poke holes in it-

Jay Shetty 25:18 Hmm

Hilary Duff 25:19 ... to make sure it's, like, steady enough.

Jay Shetty 25:20 [laughs]

Hilary Duff 25:21 You know?

Jay Shetty 25:21 Yeah.

Hilary Duff 25:22 That's what I felt like I was doing. I think it added an extra pressure that I had a child already, and, like, I didn't wanna expose him to something that wasn't, like, for sure going to stick and work out for me. Yeah, I mean, I'm just feel so settled in a good way. Like-

Jay Shetty 25:39 Hmm

Hilary Duff 25:40 ... so happy that I- I'm like, "God, your intuition works, and it's good" [laughs]

Jay Shetty 25:46 [laughs]

Hilary Duff 25:46 Because it is really, it is... To commit your life to someone is a very big choice.

Jay Shetty 25:53 Yeah. It's only after you do it, and you spend a few years together, you realize how big it is.

Hilary Duff 25:57 Right.

Jay Shetty 25:57 Like, I was like, when I made that commitment, I actually don't think I had a clue what that commitment meant.

Hilary Duff 26:02 Right.

Jay Shetty 26:02 And then years later, you're like, "Oh, okay. Now I'm actually living that commitment."

Hilary Duff 26:07 Yes.

Jay Shetty 26:07 When I made it that day, on my wedding day, it was kind of just like, it was... It, it felt natural, it felt real, but-

Hilary Duff 26:13 Yeah

Jay Shetty 26:13 ... I almost hadn't really experienced what it meant to say that, if that makes any sense.

Hilary Duff 26:17 How old were you when you got married?

Jay Shetty 26:19 We were... I was 28.

Hilary Duff 26:21 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 26:21 And my wife was 25. And so-

Hilary Duff 26:23 So pretty young.

Jay Shetty 26:24 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pretty... I was-

Hilary Duff 26:26 I wonder if it's like that by design.

Jay Shetty 26:27 Yeah.

Hilary Duff 26:28 Like-

Jay Shetty 26:28 What do you mean, like?

Hilary Duff 26:29 'Cause marriage is, like, so hard, and it's such a big choice that I wonder if you do it, like, at a sl- slightly younger stage of your life, or else you wouldn't do it, 'cause it's such, like, a crazy-

Jay Shetty 26:38 [laughs] That's a good point. Yeah

Hilary Duff 26:39 ... it's such a crazy thing to, to commit to.

Jay Shetty 26:42 It is. It is, yeah. Me and my wife had talked about that before. I, I feel like it was older compared to people we knew back in London.

Hilary Duff 26:48 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 26:48 So we got married late.

Hilary Duff 26:49 Oh, you did?

Jay Shetty 26:50 Compared to a lot of our friends who got married very early.

Hilary Duff 26:52 Then you guys moved to LA and you're like, "Oh, no one's married here" [laughs]

Jay Shetty 26:54 Yeah, exactly. Then, then we moved here and we're like, "Oh, wait. There's no rules. This is great."

Hilary Duff 26:57 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 26:57 Like, you know, we got friends, like, marrying at 40, having kids at 45. Like, no one cares.

Hilary Duff 27:01 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 27:01 And, and it was nice. It was refreshing-

Hilary Duff 27:03 Uh-huh

Jay Shetty 27:03 ... actually, from coming from a culture where people were getting married at 22, 23, 24, 25, and-

Hilary Duff 27:08 Yeah

Jay Shetty 27:08 ... being able to have that, have that space and, uh... But we've talked about that many times where we're like, "Oh, my gosh, we've grown so much." And my wife especially, she feels like she's been so many different versions of herself-

Hilary Duff 27:18 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 27:18 ... in the last 13 years, that-

Hilary Duff 27:20 It's amazing and speaks volumes of your relationship that she could be so many versions of herself in a marriage.

Jay Shetty 27:27 Hmm.

Hilary Duff 27:27 Do you know what I mean? Like, take on, you said lots of different versions of herself. It's very hard to, like, grow, I think.

Jay Shetty 27:33 Yeah.

Hilary Duff 27:34 A lot of the growth that I did outside of motherhood happened before I was in a relationship or in between being in a relationship-

Jay Shetty 27:41 Right

Hilary Duff 27:41 ... which is, like, kind of just being alone with yourself.

Jay Shetty 27:45 Yeah. Right. So basically, you're saying that I must be amazing because-

Hilary Duff 27:48 Amazing

Jay Shetty 27:48 ... I'm so patient-

Hilary Duff 27:49 That's correct

Jay Shetty 27:50 ... and I'm just so flexible, and like, my w-

Hilary Duff 27:51 I didn't wanna, like, pump the ego too much.

Jay Shetty 27:53 I know. I'm just like, "Thank you."

Hilary Duff 27:54 But that was-

Jay Shetty 27:55 You're so sweet

Hilary Duff 27:55 ... that was what I was getting at.

Jay Shetty 27:56 Yeah.

Hilary Duff 27:56 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 27:56 My wife's just so lucky that I've been, like, so patient [laughs]

Hilary Duff 27:59 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 28:00 It's been the other way around on many, many occasions. But marriage is so hard. It is so hard to grow with someone. It is so hard to continue to grow. It's so hard to grow-

Hilary Duff 28:07 Yeah

Jay Shetty 28:07 ... at a different pace.

Hilary Duff 28:09 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 28:09 It's so hard to grow at opposite paces sometimes, it feels like,

Jay Shetty 28:13 and-

Hilary Duff 28:13 Yeah

Jay Shetty 28:13 ... what, what would you say you, the biggest lessons you took away from your first marriage that really have helped you in that healing transition?

Hilary Duff 28:20 I don't love to talk about this too much-

Jay Shetty 28:23 Sure

Hilary Duff 28:23 ... um, because, you know, I felt like in that time of my life, I was so ready to get married. I was in something-

Jay Shetty 28:32 Hmm

Hilary Duff 28:33 ... that I really adored. I was ready to have a baby. I was ready to have something of my own, you know, that I could just, like, focus on and it be mine, and, like, my life felt out of my hands a little bit at that moment, and I just wanted to, like, shrink it.

Jay Shetty 28:48 Hmm.

Hilary Duff 28:48 I've been pretty open about, you know, being a divorced person and what that's like and being a single mom and being, you know, kind of like, choosing to, like, end a family is a huge, horrible choice to make.

Jay Shetty 29:02 Hmm.

Hilary Duff 29:02 But I also co-parent that, with, with that person, and we do a great job mostly. Sometimes there's bumps-

Jay Shetty 29:11 Hmm

Hilary Duff 29:11 ... and frustrations, but again, ebbs and flows, right? But, like, we adore this person that we created, and we do a great job. This is, like, before, you know, conscious uncoupling was, like, a coined a term.

Jay Shetty 29:24 Mm-hmm.

Hilary Duff 29:24 And we really tried to do that. I really tried to do that. Like, you just grow.

Jay Shetty 29:30 Yeah.

Hilary Duff 29:31 And I think I did.

Jay Shetty 29:32 You, you strike me as someone who, like, follows your intuition. You even said it earlier when you were talking about-

Hilary Duff 29:36 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 29:36 ... your current relationship. You're like, "I'm so glad my intuition was right."

Hilary Duff 29:40 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 29:40 And then I was like, and the album's called Luck or Something, and so I wanted to ask you, what's, what's the relationship between intuition and luck, and has your career and journey and even this inspiration behind this album, how much of it has been luck and how much of it's been intuition?

Hilary Duff 29:55 I think a lot of it has been intuition.

Jay Shetty 29:56 Hmm.

Hilary Duff 29:56 And I think that's, falls under the category of the or something-

Jay Shetty 30:00 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm

Hilary Duff 30:00 ... part of it, where I'm like, "Actually, I deserve some credit here."

Jay Shetty 30:03 [laughs]

Hilary Duff 30:04 I feel incredibly lucky. I don't know why me, but I do know that I've also worked really hard, and I know that I've had toGo Through a Lot. The title is pretty loaded and can mean a whole, and does mean a whole bunch of different things to me, like what I just said. But also it's a coy way of like responding to a question I'm constantly asked, which is like, "How are you so normal? How did you-

Jay Shetty 30:28 Mm.

Hilary Duff 30:28 " ... get through this?" And I'm like, "Luck or something."

Jay Shetty 30:32 [laughs] Got it. Yeah.

Hilary Duff 30:33 But I think the l- the or something is the real weighted portion.

Jay Shetty 30:38 It's good when you think you're lucky and e- everyone else realizes it was hard work.

Hilary Duff 30:42 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 30:43 It's kind of what I think is like the accurate assessment. Anyone that I know that I believe has achieved something amazing, and when I say achieved something amazing, I think it's, it could be being grounded in a difficult industry, it could be-

Hilary Duff 30:53 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 30:53 ... something athletically successful. Like, whatever you define as greatness or success or winning, it's... The problem becomes when everyone else views it as lucky and, you know, you view it as hard work.

Hilary Duff 31:04 Right.

Jay Shetty 31:04 And it's, like, beautiful when, like you said, I see myself as lucky. Like, I, I, I don't know why me. Like, that's beautiful. And then if, if we can- But it's always the other way around. It's almost like, yeah, people like to think... I got asked that the other day. I was asked, someone was asking me in an interview like, "Why do you think people listen to you and why do they connect with you?" And I was like, "To be honest, I always struggle with that question because-

Hilary Duff 31:24 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 31:24 ... I feel really grateful and fortunate that anyone even cares to listen to me." I remember speaking to rooms of, like, three people, and so I feel, uh, completely humbled by where it's gone. And then I was like at, at the same time, like, I think it's because I've been doing this for a long time. I've done it for longer offline than I have online.

Hilary Duff 31:41 Yeah. Like, honestly, when I zoom out, and, like, it would be hard for you to answer this way, but I'm like, probably because you're smart. You know what I mean? Probably 'cause you're smart. Probably because I think that you have a gift and you can connect with people. I feel like I have a similar gift like that. Like some, for some reason, I resonate with people in a certain way and... But like, you have to take credit for what you build.

Jay Shetty 32:06 Mm.

Hilary Duff 32:07 And you also can feel lucky, and you also can feel immense gratitude and-

Jay Shetty 32:13 Mm

Hilary Duff 32:13 ... you know, how did I get here, um, feelings. But, like, you're also smart-

Jay Shetty 32:19 Yeah

Hilary Duff 32:19 ... and you're good at what you do. No?

Jay Shetty 32:21 That's very sweet.

Hilary Duff 32:21 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 32:22 I appreciate that. I, I, I appreciate it coming

Jay Shetty 32:24 from you. But I, I like what you're saying about the idea of all these things can coexist.

Hilary Duff 32:28 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 32:28 And that's why I like the luck or something.

Hilary Duff 32:30 Mm.

Jay Shetty 32:30 I think you're so right. Like, we're allowed to feel all of these emotions. Like, there's pride, there's gratitude-

Hilary Duff 32:35 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 32:35 ... there's luck, there's intuition, there's, there's all... and confusion even still and-

Hilary Duff 32:39 Yeah

Jay Shetty 32:39 ... and, and all the-

Hilary Duff 32:40 Insecurities [laughs]

Jay Shetty 32:40 ... insecurities and, and everything, and it's almost like when we're forced to be like, "Well, tell me the one thing that changed your life." And you're like, "Ugh, luck or something."

Hilary Duff 32:47 I can't.

Jay Shetty 32:47 Yeah, it's like-

Hilary Duff 32:48 Yeah, yeah

Jay Shetty 32:48 ... yeah, it's like luck or something is the new, new answer now. Like-

Hilary Duff 32:51 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 32:51 ... that's what I'm gonna use every time I'm asked that.

Hilary Duff 32:52 You can have it.

Jay Shetty 32:53 I'm gonna... Yeah. If I-

Hilary Duff 32:54 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 32:54 I'm gonna use it now. I'm gonna encourage lots of people to use it because yeah... And, and I, honestly, I, I, we've only met briefly, but, like, the, the impact you've had on people proves that there's so much hard work, so much talent, such a gift, like so mu- you know, because you, you can't have that. People grow up watching a lot of people. It doesn't mean that you carry that same impact, so same back at you and, uh-

Hilary Duff 33:16 Yeah

Jay Shetty 33:16 ... it's, um, yeah, it's, it's something that's very visceral in, in anyone that's followed you for a long time. I wanted to jump into your album because I've been getting to listen to it, which I've really enjoyed, which has been so-

Hilary Duff 33:27 Okay

Jay Shetty 33:27 ... wonderful for me, and I'm, I'm very deep into... Because I love words and I love spoken word, I love poetry, I love... I, I took out some lyrics that really I felt were beautiful and powerful.

Hilary Duff 33:39 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 33:39 So I may read your own lyrics back to you.

Hilary Duff 33:41 Sure.

Jay Shetty 33:41 I can't, I can't sing them back to you 'cause I can't sing to save my life.

Hilary Duff 33:44 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 33:44 But, but I may read them back to you. But, um, I wanted to ask you about

Jay Shetty 33:48 this one. So you say in your song Weather for Tennis, you write or you sing, "I'm a seasoned apologist for the people who I love. I'm an amateur psychologist, the key to everyone's handcuffs. Keep the peace 'cause I'm a kid of divorce, and you're the starter of wars and there's no winning in yours."

Hilary Duff 34:05 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 34:06 Where does that show up in your life today? Like, where, where did that come from and where does it show up?

Hilary Duff 34:10 I think it's talking about being the person who smooths over and makes everything right and extends themselves and continues to show up and, um, try to make things easy for everyone. And you're talking about being in a relationship that is gonna p- keep playing a game and, you know, towards the end of the song you finally realize, like, "I'm going to put an end to this."

Jay Shetty 34:38 Mm.

Hilary Duff 34:39 The message behind it is a feeling that a lot of people can relate to of just it's exhausting to, to keep up always being the one to make things right or to-

Jay Shetty 34:50 Mm

Hilary Duff 34:50 ... carry the burden or to make the call or to stay the bigger person, and keeping the peace 'cause you're a kid of divorce is obviously very relatable. People don't need too much explaining on that one. I think it's definitely a role that I play in, in my life and, um, Matt had this amazing idea for the song. We, we started playing tennis together and I think that it was definitely inspired by just, like, the game of tennis and-

Jay Shetty 35:17 Mm

Hilary Duff 35:17 ... kind of applying it to a relationship, a romantic relationship that's probably not gonna work out.

Jay Shetty 35:23 Expand on that further with the tennis analogy for me.

Hilary Duff 35:26 The chorus is, "If it ain't the weather for tennis, then I guess we can argue until dinner time."

Jay Shetty 35:31 Mm.

Hilary Duff 35:32 So it's just kind of about a game-

Jay Shetty 35:33 Mm-hmm

Hilary Duff 35:33 ... being played.

Jay Shetty 35:34 Mm-hmm.

Hilary Duff 35:35 And a cycle that is constantly, like, repeating.

Jay Shetty 35:38 Yeah.

Hilary Duff 35:38 Right before we started writing the record together, maybe a year before, uh, I was like, "If we're gonna last the long haul, we need sport. We need to, like, learn how to play a sport together."

Jay Shetty 35:50 [laughs]

Hilary Duff 35:50 And so we picked up tennis and I also forced him to learn how to ski, which is like one of his favorite things to do now.

Jay Shetty 35:56 [laughs]

Hilary Duff 35:56 And we love to ski. But, um, I think that, I think the chorus was inspired for him because we had started playing the game of tennis.

Jay Shetty 36:05 I think you're spot on. I think so many kids can feel like they were the peacemaker in their family.

Hilary Duff 36:09 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 36:10 I know plenty of people who've gone to therapy or talked about that with me and this idea of just-They were the one trying to, like, calm everyone down. The, and, and people have different versions of this, right? Like, you meet comedians who did it through making everyone laugh, and then-

Hilary Duff 36:23 Yes

Jay Shetty 36:23 ... that, that becomes their journey, and that's a very on-the-nose example. But all of us have played some sort of role of being mediators. I, I often feel as though I do what I do today because I mediated my parents' marriage growing up.

Hilary Duff 36:34 Mm.

Jay Shetty 36:35 And so I was the kid who was, like, at 10 years old, like, listening to both sides and helping them connect and trying to find the, the points at which they could relate to each other. And-

Hilary Duff 36:46 Yeah

Jay Shetty 36:46 ... and I don't regret doing that. I'm actually very happy I did that. It gave me great skills for life.

Hilary Duff 36:50 Mm-hmm. My parents divorced when I was around 18.

Jay Shetty 36:53 Right.

Hilary Duff 36:54 And I feel like that was a really hard time.

Jay Shetty 36:59 Yeah.

Hilary Duff 36:59 Um, because I was, like, kind of an adult, and then you, like, have a l- you're like, "Did they just stay together to get us to this point?" And now you have guilt that they were, like, unhappy, or just, like, so many different things.

Jay Shetty 37:14 I gave up being the peacemaker of it when I, uh, became around 21. So I, I remember that time vividly in my life where I was like-

Hilary Duff 37:20 What did that feel like, giving that up, making the choice to be like, "I'm not doing that anymore"?

Jay Shetty 37:25 Oh, it was tough because there were certain members of my family that felt that I was, uh, giving up my responsibility.

Hilary Duff 37:31 And you're like, "Th- this actually wasn't my job in the first place."

Jay Shetty 37:34 Correct.

Hilary Duff 37:34 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 37:34 And so, so that was the... I remember that being the tension, where I was like, "I love my parents. I'm grateful for everything they've given me."

Hilary Duff 37:42 Right.

Jay Shetty 37:42 "And really valuable, and I wouldn't be who I am today if I didn't have this situation that I grew up in." Um, but I think now's the time that I've spent however many... Obviously, I didn't start mediating when I was four years old. But I've spent, whatever, 10 years of my life trying to figure this out, and I'm not-

Hilary Duff 37:59 Yeah

Jay Shetty 37:59 ... capable. So there was a part of me that felt like a failure. There's part of me that felt like, uh, you know, like, that I was right, and I was free to give up the mediate, the peace part that you're talking about.

Hilary Duff 38:09 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 38:09 But I think that's what's so interesting, is that I gave up that responsibility at 21 even though I saw the decision at 10. But did you

Jay Shetty 38:16 ever get answers to your whys and your questions, or was that something that you kinda found on your own?

Hilary Duff 38:21 I think it was really hard for them to, like, be honest with each other, and there was a lot of, like, fighting, and-

Jay Shetty 38:25 Mm

Hilary Duff 38:26 ... it was not like they could hang out and be in the same room. And so when it came for me getting divorced, I was like, "I'm not gonna have that."

Jay Shetty 38:32 Yeah.

Hilary Duff 38:33 We're gonna b- like, do holidays together as much as we can, and not that it was always easy, but it felt way easier than the alternative.

Jay Shetty 38:40 Yeah.

Hilary Duff 38:41 You know?

Jay Shetty 38:41 Yeah, yeah. For sure.

Hilary Duff 38:42 So yeah. I don't, I don't-- my dad and I don't really have much of a relationship, and we don't speak very often. It's hard because I think there's not a whole bunch of answers, and it's, you kind of hear one side and then try to take from it what you believe and then, you know, the same on the other. And I, I, it's really, it's really hard. I think if a family breaks apart very dramatically, it's hard to find your way back, uh, sometimes. And some people want to, and some people don't.

Jay Shetty 39:13 Yeah. It's, uh, I feel like as the older you get, you realize you've gotta answer the questions yourself and find... You've gotta kind of find the full stop by yourself, kinda like the point that you're making-

Hilary Duff 39:22 Yeah

Jay Shetty 39:22 ... in this lyric of just, "I've decided I'm not taking on this responsibility in whatever f- in whatever way you played it."

Hilary Duff 39:29 Mm.

Jay Shetty 39:29 Do, do you feel sometimes, do you feel free of it, or is it, is it always, like, something that-

Hilary Duff 39:33 No, I don't

Jay Shetty 39:33 ... once you played that role, you're always kind of conditioned to play that role?

Hilary Duff 39:37 I do. I think it's a little bit like muscle memory, where-

Jay Shetty 39:39 Mm

Hilary Duff 39:40 ... you lean on it, and then you have to remember some of the, through therapy or wherever you find your solace, like, you have to keep pushing those good habits or good things to say to yourself to cope and make different choices.

Jay Shetty 39:57 It's almost like that conditioning pulls you back.

Hilary Duff 39:59 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 39:59 And then you've gotta find this new thought process, almost like learning new lines as an actor and going, "Well-

Hilary Duff 40:04 Yeah

Jay Shetty 40:04 ... this is the new life that I wanna build." And even what you just said about how you knew that when you went through it, you didn't want to mirror some of those behaviors, and you're like, "No, we're gonna do, we're gonna do holidays together, and we're gonna change things," because that is that mus- that is tearing away that muscle memory and going, "I'm gonna change it."

Hilary Duff 40:21 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 40:22 Yeah. There's another, um, amazing lyric that I love that I took apart here. Um, so this one. Okay.

Hilary Duff 40:32 Don't tell me what song

Hilary Duff 40:33 it's from.

Jay Shetty 40:33 Okay.

Hilary Duff 40:34 I like to play a game.

Jay Shetty 40:34 Oh, okay.

Hilary Duff 40:35 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 40:35 Oh, I didn't know we... Okay, fine. All right. If you wanna play a game, we, we're gonna play some games later here.

Hilary Duff 40:39 Okay. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 40:40 So we, we get... Okay. But you can... We... I won't tell you what song it's from. Okay. So the first question will be, "What song is it from?" after I read it.

Hilary Duff 40:46 Okay.

Jay Shetty 40:47 Okay, I like this. This is good. I shoulda done it like that.

Hilary Duff 40:49 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 40:49 "We come from the same home, the same blood, a different explanation of the same thought. People ask if I've seen you, and honestly, I hate it. 'Cause the truth is that I need to, but there's no way to relay it. Not if we don't talk."

Hilary Duff 41:03 Yeah. So that's from We Don't Talk. Um, and this is a hard one for me. This is a really tough one. Um, my sister and I don't speak. And I think in my adulthood, I've come across more and more people that are having this experience. And as painful as it feels to share, when I decided to make this record, I could only talk about the things that I've gone through. Like, there would be no purpose to make a record after 10 years than to be, than to face, you know, what it's been like. Um, so that's my truth, and I really worked hard toLyrically make sure that I'm just speaking about my experience, you know?

Jay Shetty 42:21 Hmm.

Hilary Duff 42:22 It's very hard to be, to be, you know, a person who's, like, had their life exposed in the industry for twenty-five years, and we were talking about, [sniffs] you know, that earlier, tiptoeing around kind of what the outcome has been for some of it. [sniffs] Um, but yeah, that is-- it's a very vulnerable song, and it's a very raw part of my existence. Um, and I hope it's not forever, but it's for right now. Sorry. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 42:54 Don't be sorry. There's a tissue there as well if you need it, yeah.

Hilary Duff 42:58 Thank you. You guys come locked and loaded 'cause this happens. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 43:01 Thank you for being so vulnerable and open with me because it's-- can't imagine how hard it is.

Hilary Duff 43:08 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 43:09 And so sorry that you and her are going through that. I'm sure it's hard on you both in different ways.

Hilary Duff 43:16 Totally. I agree with that.

Jay Shetty 43:18 Yeah.

Hilary Duff 43:18 It's definitely a raw nerve. Everybody has their reasons, and there's, um... Relationships are difficult, even with your family, especially with your family.

Jay Shetty 43:30 Especially, yeah.

Hilary Duff 43:30 Yeah. I think it's, it's easier when you aren't connected that way.

Jay Shetty 43:35 Yeah, and it seems like you yearn for that relationship back because you say, "I need to." Like, it's not, it's not something that you're kind of throwing away or giving up. As you said, there's you-- there's a part of you that seems to hope it changes.

Hilary Duff 43:49 That's the person I grew up with, the only one.

Jay Shetty 43:51 I really hope she, I really hope she hears the song. And I-

Hilary Duff 43:55 You do?

Jay Shetty 43:55 Yeah. I hope she hears it, and I hope it's at least the beginning of some way back to whatever it is that's good for both of you and that you both desire because-

Hilary Duff 44:05 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 44:05 ... whatever that looks like.

Hilary Duff 44:07 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 44:07 I think that's what's hard with family is that we assume that good looks like everything's close and everything's perfect, and that's what we think when we're growing up.

Hilary Duff 44:15 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 44:16 Then we get older, and we go, "Oh, wait, it doesn't, it doesn't always look like that."

Hilary Duff 44:19 You desire, like, in family, like, this picture, and that's not reality a lot of the times for people.

Jay Shetty 44:27 Yeah.

Hilary Duff 44:27 And so you're like, you get to a certain age. I mean, I have my own family who is put first no matter what, and I've gotten to make different rules for my family. But yeah, you, you get to a certain age where you're like, "Oh, that doesn't feel good," or, "That's not right," or, "That's..." You know?

Jay Shetty 44:45 Mm-hmm.

Hilary Duff 44:46 And it's very hard to think of family in the way that you grow up thinking of family when-

Jay Shetty 44:51 Yes

Hilary Duff 44:52 ... so much shifts and changes. And I love my family in certain ways and certain memories, and also, like, hu-huge struggles have, you know, occurred. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 45:04 Hmm.

Hilary Duff 45:05 And not, like, putting that one responsibility on anybody involved, you know, and assuming some myself. So, you know, it's, oh, it's, it's very complicated.

Jay Shetty 45:13 Yeah. I think family is complicated. You're absolutely right. Thank you for being-

Hilary Duff 45:16 Yeah

Jay Shetty 45:16 ... so open and honest to the, you know, to the point that we can tell just how hard this is for you and-

Hilary Duff 45:24 Mm

Jay Shetty 45:24 ... how heavy it all is. And I'm sure everyone who's listening right now is thinking that, "God, I know exactly what relationship in my life makes me feel that way," whether it's with a sibling, a father-

Hilary Duff 45:34 Mm

Jay Shetty 45:34 ... a parent or a family member. And so-

Hilary Duff 45:37 Yeah

Jay Shetty 45:37 ... yeah, thank you for going there. Um, gonna do one more. You can guess the song. Do one more lyric.

Hilary Duff 45:42 Love it.

Jay Shetty 45:43 Yeah, one more lyric. Now-

Hilary Duff 45:44 Please don't make me cry.

Jay Shetty 45:45 I, I will try. I'm n- I hope I'm not making you cry.

Hilary Duff 45:48 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 45:48 I would hate to be the one making you cry. That is not my intention whatsoever.

Hilary Duff 45:52 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 45:52 And I, and I respect you too much to... You, you tell me how you feel about stuff. Like-

Hilary Duff 45:56 Okay. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 45:56 ... there's no... Yeah. This is the last lyric we're doing, so we won't, I, I promise. Um, okay. What I find fascinating about you is y-your lyrics are so real and raw and clear, and they, they are so, uh, resonant with, with anyone and everyone who's going through similar things through you, which I think-

Hilary Duff 46:16 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 46:16 ... many, many people are. And so often when I read lyrics, they're so metaphorical, but yours are, like, poetic but real.

Hilary Duff 46:24 Mm.

Jay Shetty 46:24 Um, and so this one you can guess the song. So

Jay Shetty 46:28 the lyric goes, "I wish I could sleep on planes and that my father would really love me. He'd show up on my wedding day and tell my family they're all so lucky. He'd tell me how he wished he stayed and that he never meant to disappoint me. But till then I'll exist as the optimist."

Hilary Duff 46:44 I think more just being very vulnerable and open about what it's like to be in a family that, you know, your parents aren't together, and you don't have, you know, relationships with both of your parents. Um, it's devastating, and it feels... I don't th- I think it doesn't matter what age you are, you want your parents to feel like they care about you.

Jay Shetty 47:14 Mm-hmm.

Hilary Duff 47:15 And big portion of my existence hasn't felt like that. I don't know if that's the truth, but that's how it feels.

Jay Shetty 47:22 Mm.

Hilary Duff 47:23 And so that's just what I'm sharing in that song, "The Optimist." Um, I love that song so much. I think I live in this world that, like, I'm really happy. I'm really, like, goofy. I'm really silly. A lot of hard things have happened to me, and I think that with the album, I wanted to share that emotional depth and that, some of that heaviness, but, like, disguised with, you know, a very joyful track, and I think that's, like, very much how I like to exist in the world.

Jay Shetty 47:57 Mm.

Hilary Duff 47:57 Is, like, this balance of these two things can exist at the same time, and, you know, the record is a pop record. It feels-

Jay Shetty 48:04 Mm-hmm

Hilary Duff 48:05 ... like you wanna blast it in your car. At least I do. That's when I knew it was done, you know? Um, but they're, like, life topics.

Jay Shetty 48:13 Mm.

Hilary Duff 48:13 And life is really challenging, really hard, really tricky to make the right calls and the wrong calls, all of-- it's all just a process and, like, a very beautiful and messy one. And, and I feel like the record has just so much of that in it, you know?

Jay Shetty 48:26 Mm.

Hilary Duff 48:26 It's like a, feels like a capture of ten years of different things flying at you. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 48:33 I know you have this other song that we all love. I'm not reading out any more lyrics. [laughs]

Hilary Duff 48:36 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 48:38 I, I, uh, I, I know you have this other song that we all love called Mature.

Hilary Duff 48:42 Uh-huh.

Jay Shetty 48:42 I was just thinking as you were saying that, that i- there's so much maturity in being able to be like, "Hey, I'm fun and goofy," and at the same time there's all this stuff going on, and like-

Hilary Duff 48:51 Yeah

Jay Shetty 48:52 ... and, and I think that's everyone who's growing up with you and is experiencing all of that too, and I feel like only knowing one side, especially through someone that people have followed and continue to follow for so many years, it's-

Hilary Duff 49:05 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 49:05 ... you feel less alone.

Hilary Duff 49:07 Mm.

Jay Shetty 49:07 I feel like people are gonna feel less alone when they listen to this album, but in a good way, not just, like, in their feels, but like you said-

Hilary Duff 49:13 Yeah

Jay Shetty 49:13 ... blasting it out. It's a pop record. Like, I love that juxtaposition of making people feel less alone, but also making them have fun, which-

Hilary Duff 49:20 I, I love that juxtaposition too, and I love that word because playing the, the, the few little shows that, that I played before I go out this summer was such a cool feeling of, like, the audience one is, like, my age, so they're all adults now, and we've grown up together. And it was like I'm playing these old songs that feel so good to people and hold such a sweet, like, innocent part of their being.

Jay Shetty 49:49 Mm-hmm.

Hilary Duff 49:50 You know? Some, like, that meant something to them at a very, like, pivotal a- coming of age. And, um, to get to hold that memory for people is such a, like, badge for me.

Jay Shetty 50:04 Mm.

Hilary Duff 50:04 But then also to meet them with, like, the new songs and kind of experiences that life has provided was a really cool experience, to have them sing, like, these songs that they, that ha- that they have from the record. You know, to sing them and us be adults and be connecting on that level is, like, real- really powerful. So it's like this really cool, floaty feeling of, like, this thing that feels really good that we get to lean on and, like, celebrate from our past, but, you know, be like, "Me too," [laughs] you know, in the now.

Jay Shetty 50:37 Like, that says so much about you, because I think that you saying that, "I want people to have that experience that meant so much to them," even though you have transformed, you have grown, you have changed, you have gone through all of this, that just speaks, like, volumes of your character, honestly. Because it's, it's, it's so easy for people to wanna, like, be like, "That was me then. I'm gonna leave that behind. This is the new me now," and that's generally what we do as humans. We're like, "Yeah, that was then, and it was cool," and-

Hilary Duff 51:01 Yeah

Jay Shetty 51:01 ... and it's like for you to be like, "No, I just love doing it because it brings people so much joy-

Hilary Duff 51:05 Yeah

Jay Shetty 51:05 ... and I get to share this part of them," like, that juxtaposition truly is... Yeah, I just wanna thank you for that, because I think it, it shows just how much you have in your heart of wanting to make people happy and wanting to, wanting them to have these moments and-

Hilary Duff 51:18 I think it, you know, I don't know if it would've been possible for me to do 10 years ago. I don't know why now all of a sudden-

Jay Shetty 51:25 Mm

Hilary Duff 51:25 ... I really don't know how to answer, like, what shifted and what made me find such peace-

Jay Shetty 51:30 Mm-hmm

Hilary Duff 51:31 ... with my past, you know? Like, but I'm really proud of it now.

Jay Shetty 51:34 Yeah.

Hilary Duff 51:34 And I get to go and celebrate it, and it feels like I get to be a part of it with everybody instead of trying to, like, shy away for it, from it and be like, "I'm an adult," or, "I'm changed," or, "I'm different," or, "That's not me anymore." Like, that is a part of me, and it will always be, like, a part of me, and it feels really fun to celebrate that with people, that it meant something to.

Jay Shetty 51:55 I think you said the word, actually, even though you're saying, "I don't know what the o- uh, why it is," at least this is my analysis of what you're saying, is, uh, it's almost like we all, we all go through pain, and then there's transformation. And maybe at 10 years ago, there was some transformation happening in your life, but now you're coming back as a celebration.

Hilary Duff 52:11 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 52:11 And a celebration is, like, how we look back at our whole life. Like, I went to, I went to three 70th birthdays last year.

Hilary Duff 52:17 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 52:17 And, like, I looked at life, like, totally different, because-

Hilary Duff 52:20 Wow

Jay Shetty 52:20 ... I'm 38.

Hilary Duff 52:21 Uh-huh. Same.

Jay Shetty 52:22 Yeah, yeah. We're the same age. And, and I went to, I went to these three 70-year-old birthdays. Uh, two of them I'm very close with. One of them I'm becoming closer with. And they had, like, their kids, grandkids. They had all their friends that were important at different phases of their life.

Hilary Duff 52:38 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 52:39 And everyone gave speeches, and, like, it was... I, and I, I'm a sucker for this stuff. Like, I love to love love and friendship and all this stuff.

Hilary Duff 52:46 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 52:46 And, and I was like, wow, like, when you're 70, like, life just looks so different. And it's what you just said. It's like you're at a point where you're celebrating your, you know-

Hilary Duff 52:55 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 52:55 ... not that you're 70 years old. I'm not, not saying that.

Hilary Duff 52:57 Yeah, no.

Jay Shetty 52:57 But that spirit of, like-

Hilary Duff 52:58 And I've had a lot of chapters, you know, that it's really weird. People will be like, "Oh, what is it? What do you remember from this time?" I'm like, "What do you remember from 25 years ago?"

Jay Shetty 53:07 [laughs] Yeah.

Hilary Duff 53:07 Like, uh, certain things stand out. But yeah, that's, that's amazing. Definitely when you get to 70.

Jay Shetty 53:14 Yeah.

Hilary Duff 53:14 I can imagine if I'm a- almost at 40 and feeling the thing that everyone told me I was gonna feel at 40, imagine what 70 is like, to get there and, like, a life well lived and-

Jay Shetty 53:26 Yeah

Hilary Duff 53:26 ... having people from all your eras show up and, you know, speak for you and have relationships as long as you can have at 70, you know?

Jay Shetty 53:35 Yeah.

Hilary Duff 53:35 It's cool.

Jay Shetty 53:36 Yeah.

Hilary Duff 53:36 It's really cool.

Jay Shetty 53:38 Has

Jay Shetty 53:39 making music and writing been your therapy? Has that been your outlet? Has that... What, how would you describe making this album? Is it, is it therapy? Is it transformative? Is it, is it celebration? Like, what, what is it for you, and what does it give you?

Hilary Duff 53:55 I think that what really triggered me wanting to make an album was having my fourth child and being like, I love motherhood. I'm obsessed with my kids. Obviously, I wouldn't have four kids if I wasn't, like, deeply, utterly obsessed with, like, the way they run through the house, the way they breathe, the way we, like, like, just the everything about the smallest things to the biggest things, like, obsessed with them. But I was like, "I can't stay here and just be, like, in this."

Jay Shetty 54:31 Mm-hmm.

Hilary Duff 54:32 "Because I know so much else about myself that has to be, like-Stretched.

Jay Shetty 54:40 Mm-hmm.

Hilary Duff 54:41 So I think I got really jealous actually of Matt after I had towns and I was like still nursing and, you know, busy with the other kids and like our, running our household and all of that. All of that responsibility, which I actually genuinely love, but I can't-- that can't be like it for me. So he was like going, he has an amazing studio. He was like going to the studio every day and just like getting to have alone time, and getting to like sit with things that like bump around his head, in, in his head and like make him tick and like purge, you know, his like creativity and create. And I was just like, "I want that too." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 55:20 [laughs] Yeah.

Hilary Duff 55:21 And he was like, "Cool."

Jay Shetty 55:23 Yeah.

Hilary Duff 55:23 Like, "Are you serious?" Like, it's not like for 10 years I've been writing songs. I've been like deep in motherhood. It's been way easier to like film a TV show, which I also love doing. But like motherhood is a place where you just can completely focus on and throw all of your energy to, and then like forget yourself.

Jay Shetty 55:40 Mm-hmm.

Hilary Duff 55:41 So being able to know that he has like the front row seat to my whole entire life, and then sitting and like figuring out what this is gonna sound like and what I'm gonna talk about felt so safe-

Jay Shetty 55:55 Mm.

Hilary Duff 55:55 -and so natural. We have such a busy life. It wasn't like there was just endless sessions where I'm like, we're writing for eight hours. Like-

Jay Shetty 56:02 [laughs]

Hilary Duff 56:03 ... a lot of it was like a text and I'd be like, "I'm going to get the kids from school, but what if we, what if it's this line?"

Jay Shetty 56:07 [laughs]

Hilary Duff 56:08 "What if it's, what if this happens instead of that?" You know?

Jay Shetty 56:11 Yeah, yeah.

Hilary Duff 56:11 Like it's just like quick phone calls and a conversation in the kitchen while making plates for the kids. Like it ju- it just happened really naturally and like a way that it would happen like this with like the way that we live together.

Jay Shetty 56:24 That sounds crazy, chaotic, and beautiful. As in it's a-

Hilary Duff 56:28 Yeah

Jay Shetty 56:28 ... that's what a way to make an album together and, and what a way to, you know, experience, have the experience that you are having and then going off and creating.

Hilary Duff 56:37 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 56:37 When you, when you speak about motherhood, it's, it's so real and at the same time it's just like so wonderful to hear about it from you. Like it's, uh, and, and I know we were speaking about it a bit earlier when you walked in and just how like you're like dropping the kids off at sports and like picking them up and even today, I think when you arrived you were like, "Yeah, I'm gonna go get, pick up the kids after this," or whatever.

Hilary Duff 56:54 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 56:54 You know, and I'm like it- it's so wonderful and obviously you just said like you wouldn't have four kids if you, if you didn't... What

Jay Shetty 57:00 is, what would you say is your favorite way of showing love to the kids?

Hilary Duff 57:05 One thing that my mom was with me, and my dad as a young child, really playful.

Jay Shetty 57:12 Hmm.

Hilary Duff 57:13 Extremely silly and playful, and I have that from them.

Jay Shetty 57:20 Mm. I love that.

Hilary Duff 57:21 And I love to play tricks on my kids. I love to like be silly and get down on their level and just be really playful with them, and I think that's a huge important part of like the parent-child relationship. And then time, time spent, talks. Deciding to make an album and go on tour, I'm going to miss so much that I've really tried to be there for, and it could make me cry again thinking about, you know-

Jay Shetty 57:55 Hmm

Hilary Duff 57:56 ... Maymay, my four-year-old, has, um, her school tea party this Friday, and I'm not gonna be there. And like for Banks, I threw the tea party with like three other moms and was there. Like, and so you're like, this feels off balance.

Jay Shetty 58:12 Yeah.

Hilary Duff 58:12 This isn't fair. But I will make it fair. I'll find a way to make it fair. And so I think just showing up for your kids and giving them the time, even if it's... Yesterday I had a really busy day, and I flew up the canyon for like 40 minutes with Maymay of, with Towns, my youngest. And I drove to Luca's soccer practice to go do an hour-long interview and then take him to his next soccer practice, and by the time I got home it was like 9:00 PM. But Matt and I drove him together 'cause we were both at the studio, and then we like walked the track and watched him play soccer. So like we got our time. Not all the kids got their time, but two of them did, and you just try to like find the balance and be like, "Okay. I'm not choosing Towns this day. I'm choosing Maymay. I'm gonna go watch her a dance," or, "I'm gonna..." You know, you just, you just find a way to make it work and try to be in tune with what your kids need and keep conversations open, and that's that.

Jay Shetty 59:10 Do you think about sometimes like, when they get older I'm gonna talk to them about how like I wasn't at this party, but we did this thing, or do, do you think about it that way or not really? Is that... Am I completely missing the point?

Hilary Duff 59:19 The things that kids stick, that stick with them-

Jay Shetty 59:22 Yeah

Hilary Duff 59:23 ... is so devastating.

Jay Shetty 59:24 [laughs]

Hilary Duff 59:25 My son-

Jay Shetty 59:25 That's so painful.

Hilary Duff 59:27 It's so painful. Like my son-

Jay Shetty 59:29 [laughs] Please, I need to know now.

Hilary Duff 59:32 Okay. We were at Disney, Disneyland. This is, okay, he's 13 now, so he must have been like eight or nine, and Disneyland's a big deal.

Jay Shetty 59:41 100%.

Hilary Duff 59:41 We happen to go like every year, but it's a big deal, and he would not get on this rollercoaster. And I was like, "Everyone's going on it. Like you can't know until you try." Like I ended up pushing it too hard, making him cry, and it like, he wrote like a, a thing about it at school.

Jay Shetty 59:58 No. [laughs]

Hilary Duff 59:58 I was like, what about all the times that I'm amazing? [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:00:02 Oh, no. [laughs]

Hilary Duff 1:00:04 And all the time now N- now we can joke and he loves to ride rollercoasters and I'm like, "I told you. I told you-"

Jay Shetty 1:00:09 Yeah.

Hilary Duff 1:00:09 "... you had to just listen to me, that you would know. And we could've been having more fun since this age instead of this age, and blah, blah." You know, like we obviously like razz each other a ton, but um, he's always like, "Remember that time you made me cry 'cause I wouldn't get on the rollercoaster?"

Jay Shetty 1:00:23 Oh my gosh.

Hilary Duff 1:00:23 And I'm like-

Jay Shetty 1:00:24 You know, y- now he needs to wr-

Hilary Duff 1:00:25 ... never live it down

Jay Shetty 1:00:25 ... he needs to write a new thing in school now about how he loves rollercoasters and how it started from that point.

Hilary Duff 1:00:30 They don't see it like that.

Jay Shetty 1:00:31 Yeah.

Hilary Duff 1:00:31 But I'm gonna tell him you said so. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:00:32 Yeah, yeah. That's, that's, that's only fair. But did, did he ride the rollercoaster the first time after you f-

Hilary Duff 1:00:38 No.

Jay Shetty 1:00:38 No. Oh, so, oh, so it wasn't even that bad then

Hilary Duff 1:00:41 I think he was like, "You put so- you tried to put too much pressure on me," blah, blah, blah. Now, like, we just went to Disney World for Christmas with the kids-

Jay Shetty 1:00:49 Yeah

Hilary Duff 1:00:49 ... for three days. It was so insane.

Jay Shetty 1:00:51 Oh.

Hilary Duff 1:00:51 Four kids, Disney World, three days.

Jay Shetty 1:00:53 How are you doing that?

Hilary Duff 1:00:54 On Christmas day we flew. It was crazy.

Jay Shetty 1:00:56 That's the best Christmas ever.

Hilary Duff 1:00:57 But now I put no. I'm like, "Mm-mm, you ride it when you're ready."

Jay Shetty 1:01:02 [laughs]

Hilary Duff 1:01:02 I am not gonna be, like, nabbed as that. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:01:05 Yeah, yeah. Not, not by that teacher. Uh, you, you're reminding me that I, I... My n- my niece and nephew.

Hilary Duff 1:01:11 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:01:11 My nephew is, like, he's 10 years old now. He was, like, two years old when this happened. Ma- barely. Yeah, maybe two years old. We were, we were in a, we were in the pool at Christmas time. We had, we'd taken the family away, and we were in a pool, and he was in one of those donuts.

Hilary Duff 1:01:24 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:01:24 Like, you just s- and he needed those, and he had his armbands on and everything because obviously-

Hilary Duff 1:01:28 He can't swim, yeah

Jay Shetty 1:01:29 ... yeah, he can't swim. He's, he's tiny. And so it was me, him, and his dad hanging out in the pool. And, uh-

Hilary Duff 1:01:34 Uh-oh, stitches?

Jay Shetty 1:01:35 [laughs] No, so-

Hilary Duff 1:01:35 What happened? Oh, okay.

Jay Shetty 1:01:36 So I was, I was playing this game with him which he loved. So [laughs] he won't say this.

Hilary Duff 1:01:40 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:01:41 I was playing this game with him where I was pretending to be a little shark coming at him.

Hilary Duff 1:01:45 Oh.

Jay Shetty 1:01:45 And, and I would come out and I'd surprise him, and he'd laugh and whatever. And so I'd ke- I keep doing that. One time I do it, he falls through the hoop, like the donut.

Hilary Duff 1:01:52 Uh-huh.

Jay Shetty 1:01:52 Like, he, it... For some reason he got-

Hilary Duff 1:01:54 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:01:54 ... so scared that his whole body just fell through it.

Hilary Duff 1:01:57 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:01:57 And obviously me and his dad got him out immediately. Like, he was fine.

Hilary Duff 1:02:00 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:02:00 All he does is tell this story.

Hilary Duff 1:02:02 Yeah. See?

Jay Shetty 1:02:02 He's like, "Do you remember-

Hilary Duff 1:02:03 See?

Jay Shetty 1:02:04 " ... when you nearly-"

Hilary Duff 1:02:04 And you're like, "You can't possibly remember."

Jay Shetty 1:02:06 [laughs] And I'm like, "Dude, you, you weren't even... Like, you were there, but you, you do not have a memory for this."

Hilary Duff 1:02:10 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:02:10 He's like, "No, I remember that moment when you were trying to be a shark." And the... And, and he's, and now he's teasing me with it.

Hilary Duff 1:02:16 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:02:16 Like, it's not like he's actually upset.

Hilary Duff 1:02:18 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:02:18 For the first few years I thought he was never gonna be my friend again. I was really sad about it.

Hilary Duff 1:02:22 That's so funny.

Jay Shetty 1:02:22 But it's, you're so right. Like, it's so true. Kids are just-

Hilary Duff 1:02:24 When the fun games take a turn, and you're like, "Oh, no. Now you're scarred."

Jay Shetty 1:02:28 Totally. Totally. He's, and he's 10 years old, and now he uses it against me.

Hilary Duff 1:02:31 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:02:31 And I'm like, "Hey, I've got loads of stories on you."

Hilary Duff 1:02:33 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:02:33 Like, I've got so many stories on you being silly when you were younger. And we've got video of it too, so. Um, but no, you're so right. Kids...

Jay Shetty 1:02:40 And, and I guess that's what's so hard with children is, like, you, you think you're doing things right, and then-

Hilary Duff 1:02:44 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:02:45 ... you know, you never know. And that's why I think that overriding love is just so valuable, right? Because you can't, you can't predict how they're gonna react to one of these experiences, I guess.

Hilary Duff 1:02:53 Right. You also just don't know that you're always doing things right, and I think that's okay. I have a lot of confidence in being a parent, just because, you know, the more times you do something-

Jay Shetty 1:03:04 [laughs]

Hilary Duff 1:03:05 ... you're like, "Oh, I know what this looks like. Oh, I, I know how to do this thing." But I've never been a parent of a, a 14-year-old, and I've never been the parent of a-

Jay Shetty 1:03:15 Yeah

Hilary Duff 1:03:15 ... eight-year-old girl. Like, all of these things are just, it's just a constant checking in, updating. One thing that works for this kid doesn't work for this kid. And so it is chaotic, but it's so fun, and you, like, learn so much, and the love is so big. And we laugh a lot.

Jay Shetty 1:03:33 Mm.

Hilary Duff 1:03:33 And I'm so grateful for that. My favorite, we, we have these big doors that open in the, in the back of our house. And we just will, like, open up all the door- We have to put... We have cats now, so we have to put the cats away. But we just, like, open all the doors up, and it's just, like, kids running in and out, and soccer in the backyard.

Jay Shetty 1:03:52 Yeah.

Hilary Duff 1:03:52 And everybody playing and jumping on the trampoline or swimming. And I just am so appreciative of them and Matt and what we've built. It's such a, such a haven.

Jay Shetty 1:04:05 Mm.

Jay Shetty 1:04:06 How did they end up with all these cool names?

Hilary Duff 1:04:08 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:04:08 Like Towns and Banks and Mae Mae. Like, what? Yeah.

Hilary Duff 1:04:10 Towns and Banks and Mae Mae.

Jay Shetty 1:04:11 Yeah.

Hilary Duff 1:04:12 Gosh, how did they end up with their names? Matt-

Jay Shetty 1:04:15 They're so unique. They're, they're beautiful.

Hilary Duff 1:04:16 I know.

Jay Shetty 1:04:17 Yeah.

Hilary Duff 1:04:17 I know. Well, Mae, that was... We thought she was a boy. She was the only kid that we didn't find out what we were having 'cause we had her in the pandemic, and think we were all looking for ways to entertain ourselves and surprise ourselves. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:04:30 [laughs] Yeah, for sure.

Hilary Duff 1:04:32 So, um, we, she was a... Sh- her, like, gender was a surprise, and we thought for sure she was going to be a boy, and she was a girl. And both of our moms were born in May, so we named her Mae Mae. Or Mae. We call her Mae Mae. She just came to the realization that her nickname is longer than her real name-

Jay Shetty 1:04:49 [laughs]

Hilary Duff 1:04:49 ... and she's, like, really confused by why we would do that.

Jay Shetty 1:04:52 That, that makes a lot of sense.

Hilary Duff 1:04:53 Yeah, and she-

Jay Shetty 1:04:53 She's smart

Hilary Duff 1:04:54 ... yeah. And she introduces herself as Mae Mae.

Jay Shetty 1:04:57 Yeah.

Hilary Duff 1:04:57 But she's like, "Why is Banks not, like, Banks Banks?"

Jay Shetty 1:05:00 [laughs]

Hilary Duff 1:05:00 And like, "What is going on here?"

Jay Shetty 1:05:02 Yeah.

Hilary Duff 1:05:02 They're very funny. Um, yeah. I don't, I don't think we wanted, like, traditional names.

Jay Shetty 1:05:07 Yeah.

Hilary Duff 1:05:07 But we also didn't want, like, names that, you know, they didn't feel comfortable with as adults.

Jay Shetty 1:05:13 Yeah. Yeah.

Hilary Duff 1:05:13 So we hope we nailed it. But they also have-

Jay Shetty 1:05:15 I think you did

Hilary Duff 1:05:15 ... more normal middle names.

Jay Shetty 1:05:16 Okay. Right.

Hilary Duff 1:05:17 So who knows?

Jay Shetty 1:05:18 In case.

Hilary Duff 1:05:18 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:05:19 I like them. They're so fun.

Hilary Duff 1:05:20 Thank you.

Jay Shetty 1:05:20 Their names are so fun. I feel like they... I, I haven't met them before, but, like, like they all sound like they have a personality based on their names.

Hilary Duff 1:05:25 They all have a very big personality.

Jay Shetty 1:05:29 Yeah.

Hilary Duff 1:05:29 I like that the girls' names, the two, Banks and Towns, they kind of have, like, last name sounding names, which feels strong for girls.

Jay Shetty 1:05:37 Mm.

Hilary Duff 1:05:37 And that was kind of my goal.

Jay Shetty 1:05:38 Nice. I love it. Hilary, you've been amazing to talk to, truly.

Hilary Duff 1:05:42 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:05:42 Uh, I've, I've loved this conversation. I feel like I've learned so much about you. I feel like I feel closer to you just from how open you've been, how vulnerable you've been. We have a couple of games, as I promised you, segments to finish off-

Hilary Duff 1:05:55 Love a game

Jay Shetty 1:05:56 ... uh, our interview.

Hilary Duff 1:05:57 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:05:57 So I'm gonna bring them out now. Uh, so there's a couple that we invented recently that we absolutely love. And so this question... Uh, this,

Jay Shetty 1:06:05 there's two games. The first one is called Would You Rather, and it's the Disney era edition.

Hilary Duff 1:06:10 Oh, yes.

Jay Shetty 1:06:12 So-

Hilary Duff 1:06:12 Usually-

Jay Shetty 1:06:12 Okay

Hilary Duff 1:06:12 ... we play with, like, disgusting food or, like, horrible things.

Jay Shetty 1:06:15 Yeah.

Hilary Duff 1:06:15 But let's go.

Jay Shetty 1:06:15 This, this is a lot easier.

Hilary Duff 1:06:16 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:06:17 So would you rather have to say, "Hi, I'm Hilary Duff, and you're watching Disney Channel," every time you introduce yourself, or have the Lizzie McGuire animated character in your head at all times?

Hilary Duff 1:06:28 Oh, she lives in there rent-free, baby.

Jay Shetty 1:06:30 [laughs]

Hilary Duff 1:06:31 [laughs] I think, I think I would have her living... I mean, I've accepted her in my head, so I'm choosing the latter.

Jay Shetty 1:06:38 Okay. Got it. That makes sense. That's good.

Hilary Duff 1:06:40 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:06:40 All right. We can't see it. You have to do it. So okay, second one: walk every red carpet now in low-rise jeans or a scarf worn as a top?

Hilary Duff 1:06:50 No. No. So my option is low-rise jeans on the red carpet or a scarf as a top-

Jay Shetty 1:06:59 Yeah. Yeah

Hilary Duff 1:06:59 ... or dress, skirt as a top?

Jay Shetty 1:07:01 Yeah.

Hilary Duff 1:07:01 Oh my gosh. That is so impossible.

Jay Shetty 1:07:05 [laughs]

Hilary Duff 1:07:05 This is forever? This is for eternity?

Jay Shetty 1:07:07 This is, yeah, yeah.

Hilary Duff 1:07:09 Ugh.

Jay Shetty 1:07:09 It's would you rather. Let's, let's say for the next 12 months. Let's say for the next 12 months. Like-

Hilary Duff 1:07:13 That works for me

Jay Shetty 1:07:13 ... yeah.

Hilary Duff 1:07:13 I'm going low-rise jeans.

Jay Shetty 1:07:15 Okay, there we go.

Hilary Duff 1:07:15 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:07:15 All right. Perfect. I, I was being kind. I was being kind. Uh, would you rather have Come Clean play every time it starts raining or have Wake Up as your alarm clock every morning?

Hilary Duff 1:07:24 Oh my God.

Jay Shetty 1:07:26 [laughs]

Hilary Duff 1:07:27 [laughs] Well, I feel like every time it's raining and I open Instagram, Come Clean is playing.

Jay Shetty 1:07:33 In your head?

Hilary Duff 1:07:34 Yeah, but the way that I'm gonna skirt around this-

Jay Shetty 1:07:37 Yeah

Hilary Duff 1:07:37 ... is that we live in LA and it doesn't rain very often, so I'm choosing that one. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:07:40 Good answer. These are great responses. I love that. Okay. Very good. Uh, there's so many more. I'll have to send you some of these 'cause I need to get through some of these questions. But, uh, this is the last one of the would you rather Disney era edition.

Hilary Duff 1:07:52 Okay.

Jay Shetty 1:07:53 Would you rather bring back ultra thin eyebrows or foundation over the lips?

Hilary Duff 1:07:58 Ugh. [laughs] You definitely didn't come up with that one.

Jay Shetty 1:08:01 I didn't. [laughs]

Hilary Duff 1:08:03 [laughs] Whoa. I think, oof, that's so tough. I think I'm gonna go with ultra thin eyebrows.

Jay Shetty 1:08:11 Okay.

Hilary Duff 1:08:11 Might be a vibe.

Jay Shetty 1:08:12 I think so. Yeah.

Hilary Duff 1:08:13 I hope, like, the 12-month rule can be applied to this answer-

Jay Shetty 1:08:16 Yes

Hilary Duff 1:08:16 ... as well.

Jay Shetty 1:08:16 The 12-month rule applies to-

Hilary Duff 1:08:17 I'm gonna go thin eyebrow. I never want foundation on my lips again. That was, like, a must before I went out.

Jay Shetty 1:08:22 [laughs]

Hilary Duff 1:08:22 I would just, like, blot out my lips.

Jay Shetty 1:08:24 [laughs]

Hilary Duff 1:08:24 Now we're, like, all crayoning to make our lips bigger.

Jay Shetty 1:08:27 Yeah. That's fascinating, isn't it?

Hilary Duff 1:08:28 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:08:28 Hence 12 months makes sense because you never know.

Hilary Duff 1:08:31 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:08:31 Word could come back.

Hilary Duff 1:08:32 That's true.

Jay Shetty 1:08:32 Okay, this game's called Gut Reaction.

Hilary Duff 1:08:34 Okay.

Jay Shetty 1:08:34 So you have to just finish the sentence.

Hilary Duff 1:08:36 Okay.

Jay Shetty 1:08:36 One thing my kids make fun of me for is...

Hilary Duff 1:08:40 Getting gotten by AI.

Jay Shetty 1:08:42 What do you mean? Oh, you'll literally be like, "This is-

Hilary Duff 1:08:45 Oh, yeah

Jay Shetty 1:08:45 ... real."

Hilary Duff 1:08:46 Oh, yeah. I'm like, "Look at this." My son's like, "Cats don't jump on trampolines."

Jay Shetty 1:08:51 [laughs]

Hilary Duff 1:08:51 "So that's [laughs] you're insane." I'm like, "Right. Got it, got it, got it." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:08:57 [laughs] It, it is getting scary.

Hilary Duff 1:08:59 I know.

Jay Shetty 1:08:59 It is getting scary. Me and my wife-

Hilary Duff 1:09:00 I know. It's easy to, like, giggle about it right now, and some of the things-

Jay Shetty 1:09:03 Yeah

Hilary Duff 1:09:03 ... that we see are, like, funny, but no, it's, I don't like it at all.

Jay Shetty 1:09:07 Yeah. Yeah. It's scary. All right. Uh, the most cringe moment of me on the internet I wish could be erased is...

Hilary Duff 1:09:13 Ooh, gosh. The most cringe moment of me on the internet. Honestly, I probably felt like it was the With Love dance-

Jay Shetty 1:09:22 Mm-hmm

Hilary Duff 1:09:22 ... for a long time, but now-

Jay Shetty 1:09:24 You've owned it

Hilary Duff 1:09:25 ... we're back, baby.

Jay Shetty 1:09:26 We're back. [laughs] I love that. It's, I, it's been all over my TikTok feed. Like, I have not seen anything else.

Hilary Duff 1:09:33 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:09:33 I've been showing it to everyone. I'm like, yeah, it's all I've been, it's all I've been seeing and sharing. Uh, the first ar-

Hilary Duff 1:09:39 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:09:39 I'm not jo- I'm not joking. First artist you'd want next to you on a long tour bus ride.

Hilary Duff 1:09:44 Probably Taylor Swift 'cause I bet those buses are nice.

Jay Shetty 1:09:47 [laughs] Oh, you wanna go on her bus. Yeah, this was on your tour bus I bet.

Hilary Duff 1:09:51 Oh, okay.

Jay Shetty 1:09:52 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hilary Duff 1:09:52 Well, she would probably give me all the tips for tour-

Jay Shetty 1:09:54 Yeah

Hilary Duff 1:09:54 ... 'cause she hasn't stopped.

Jay Shetty 1:09:56 Absolutely. Yeah, those, those, I mean, tours are hard work. I've never done anything nearly as long as any musician on the planet. I did, like, 40 shows two years ago, and I was like-

Hilary Duff 1:10:05 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:10:05 ... this is insane.

Hilary Duff 1:10:06 I know.

Jay Shetty 1:10:07 I can't believe.

Hilary Duff 1:10:07 It's really hard.

Jay Shetty 1:10:08 Yeah, it's unbelievable.

Hilary Duff 1:10:09 I was just gone for 12 days, and I almost, like, cried when I just, like, f- like, saw my pillows on my bed.

Jay Shetty 1:10:15 Mm-hmm.

Hilary Duff 1:10:15 And I was like, "Oh, it's gonna be a good night."

Jay Shetty 1:10:17 [laughs]

Hilary Duff 1:10:17 "I get my pillows back." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:10:20 Hilary, we end every episode of On Purpose with a final five. These questions have to be answered in one sentence maximum.

Hilary Duff 1:10:26 Okay.

Jay Shetty 1:10:27 Um, so Hilary Duff, these are your final five. The first question is, what is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

Hilary Duff 1:10:33 Do you because everyone else is taken.

Jay Shetty 1:10:36 Great advice. Uh, second question, what is the worst advice you've ever heard or received?

Hilary Duff 1:10:41 Never grow up.

Jay Shetty 1:10:42 Third question, your favorite thing about Matt that you don't say to him enough.

Hilary Duff 1:10:47 He's really handsome.

Jay Shetty 1:10:48 There you go, Matt.

Hilary Duff 1:10:49 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:10:50 You can play this as many times as you want.

Hilary Duff 1:10:52 I know.

Jay Shetty 1:10:53 [laughs]

Hilary Duff 1:10:53 He's really... I, I mean, I just, I love looking at him, and I think that he's such a funny guy that it's easy to just be like, yeah, he's so funny. He's, like, the best. It's easy to-

Jay Shetty 1:11:03 Yeah.

Hilary Duff 1:11:03 He keeps us laughing. Like, he's just-

Jay Shetty 1:11:05 Yeah

Hilary Duff 1:11:05 ... like, really a fun, funny, like, goof, but he's so handsome.

Jay Shetty 1:11:11 I love it. Uh, fourth question, uh, will we ever get a Lizzie McGuire reboot?

Hilary Duff 1:11:17 I can't answer this in one sentence, but I can say that right now it's not in the cards. I have a world tour to go on, [laughs] and that's gonna take me a few years I think. But when I think about Lizzie, you know, I was really excited thinking about her at 30 and going through 30-year-old things, and now I can't really see her at 40. Maybe I could start to see her around, like, 55, 60.

Jay Shetty 1:11:45 [laughs]

Hilary Duff 1:11:45 And I think that's interesting.

Jay Shetty 1:11:46 That is interesting.

Hilary Duff 1:11:47 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:11:47 We'd love to see that. I love it.

Hilary Duff 1:11:49 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:11:49 All right. Very, very good answer. Fifth and final question, we ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show, if you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

Hilary Duff 1:11:59 I wanted to say, like, love, like, loving each other, but-

Jay Shetty 1:12:02 Mm

Hilary Duff 1:12:02 ... you don't have to love everyone you come into-

Jay Shetty 1:12:04 Mm

Hilary Duff 1:12:04 ... contact with, and you don't have to, like, trust everyone, and you do- also don't have to accept... Like, that's the other thing, like, accept, accept everyone.

Jay Shetty 1:12:13 Mm.

Hilary Duff 1:12:14 But I think that there needs to be some guidelines.

Jay Shetty 1:12:16 Mm-hmm.

Hilary Duff 1:12:17 [laughs] Do you know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 1:12:18 [laughs]

Hilary Duff 1:12:18 Like, the basic things.

Jay Shetty 1:12:20 Yes.

Hilary Duff 1:12:20 I wish there was just acceptance-

Jay Shetty 1:12:22 Yeah

Hilary Duff 1:12:22 ... of, like, everybody being, like, created equal and-

Jay Shetty 1:12:26 Mm

Hilary Duff 1:12:27 ... accepted for, um, skin tone or gender or whatever.

Jay Shetty 1:12:33 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Hilary Duff 1:12:34 But there has to be some rules in place-

Jay Shetty 1:12:37 Yes

Hilary Duff 1:12:37 ... for, like, bad people. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:12:40 Yes. [laughs]

Hilary Duff 1:12:40 So I guess, like, using common sense with acceptance.

Jay Shetty 1:12:45 Mm. Hilary Duff, thank you so much.

Hilary Duff 1:12:48 Thanks.

Jay Shetty 1:12:48 I'm so excited for everyone to hear your album, so excited... I, I hope I get to come see you on tour. I'm really excited to see you perform live-

Hilary Duff 1:12:54 Come on. Let's go

Jay Shetty 1:12:55 ... and, uh, this-

Hilary Duff 1:12:55 I will keep you updated.

Jay Shetty 1:12:56 I would love that.

Hilary Duff 1:12:56 There you go.

Jay Shetty 1:12:57 This is such a joy, such a treat. Thank you for being so open and honest. I hope you got to share everything you wanted to share.

Hilary Duff 1:13:03 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:13:03 I hope you feel seen and heard, and I'm so grateful that you trusted me and trusted our platform to come and be so open, so thank you so much.

Hilary Duff 1:13:09 Thank you.

Jay Shetty 1:13:10 Thank you.

Hilary Duff 1:13:10 Yeah, no, I really enjoyed it.

Jay Shetty 1:13:11 Yeah. Thank you. If you loved this episode, you'll really enjoy my episode with Selena Gomez on befriending your inner critic and how to speak to yourself with more compassion.

1:13:23 There's blessing in the breaking, and every moment that you encounter in your life, even if it's just road rage