Jay Shetty PodcastJay & Radhi: If you feel lonely, you need to watch this.
EVERY SPOKEN WORD
40 min read · 7,737 words- 0:00 – 0:52
Intro
- SPSpeaker
The, uh, male loneliness epidemic. Yeah, that's me
- JSJay Shetty
I'm so lonely. I just I got nobody to [laughs] talk to, unfortunately
- RDRadhi Devlukia
I wanna be wanted. I wanna be loved. I wanna be appreciated
- JSJay Shetty
I don't have nobody to talk to, gang. I don't got nobody to comfort me, gang Why are men so lonely?
- RDRadhi Devlukia
You don't need to have 100 people at your birthday party. You need three people that you can go to when you're in your hardest moments
- JSJay Shetty
15% of US men reported having no close friends
- RDRadhi Devlukia
One of my friends said that one of her biggest icks is seeing a man cry
- JSJay Shetty
Being vulnerable has been a long-term difficulty
- RDRadhi Devlukia
These days, women seem to want a man who is emotionally available, but not emotional
- JSJay Shetty
Sometimes I just don't feel seen
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Sometimes you do have to go
- 0:52 – 3:41
Why Do So Many Men Feel Lonely?
- RDRadhi Devlukia
outside of what you've been used to if you are trying something new with yourself
- JSJay Shetty
As a man, if you're listening to this right now and you're feeling lonely, I want you to know
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Hey, everyone. Welcome back to this week's episode of On Purpose with Jay Shetty and Radhi Devlikier. We have created these moments of conversation so that we can share a lot of the things that we discuss in our car journeys, uh, when we're traveling places, when we have space and time to actually think about what's happening in the world, the conversations we're having with friends, um, and sharing all the things that people are finding a little bit difficult, and just, you know, having open-ended, curious conversations based on it.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, we wanted to find a space where we could share conversations we're having, and whether you're watching this on your own or whether you're watching this with your partner or whether you're watching this with a friend, we just wanted to engage in conversations that we think people are having. They may not know who to go to and where to turn to, and so we hope that this provides a space and an open forum to have those. And today's topic is why are men so lonely? And this is based on something that researchers are calling a friendship recession among men.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Oh, my gosh. That's sounds sad.
- JSJay Shetty
So just to set it up, 15% of US men reported having no close friends-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
How many percent?
- JSJay Shetty
15%-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Oh
- JSJay Shetty
... in 2021, which is up from 3% in 1990. Only 13% of men have 10-plus close friends-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Wow
- JSJay Shetty
... which is down from 33% in 1990, and one in four US men under 35 report feeling lonely. One in four-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Aw
- JSJay Shetty
... men under 35 report feeling lonely, with US men ranking lonelier than peers in the most developed countries. And loneliness was declared a national epidemic by US Surgeon General Vivek Murthy in 2023.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
That is honestly really sad, though. But, um, who also knew that Akon was so right with the songs he was singing back in the day?
- JSJay Shetty
What? [laughs]
- RDRadhi Devlukia
He has a song Lonely, Mr. Lonely.
- JSJay Shetty
I know, but I don't think people are gonna even remember that. You're aging yourself with that one.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Um, no, but you know-
- JSJay Shetty
Well, Justin Bieber has a show, a song called Lonely.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Does he?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, that's one of my favorite ... I love that song.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Oh.
- JSJay Shetty
Do you know it?
- RDRadhi Devlukia
No.
- JSJay Shetty
It's so good.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
But all that to say that men are really speaking about it, but we're just not listening.
- JSJay Shetty
That's what, that's what we're-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
That's really what it is. People are somehow talking about it, but we're not listening. It's so interesting because with men, I notice that men often travel in groups. Like, recently I've been laughing with my cousins because we go to the gym, and there's these packs of men that come in. You know, girls will be alone. They'll be doing their own thing, but there are two, three, sometimes a pack
- 3:41 – 6:58
The Power of Male Vulnerability
- RDRadhi Devlukia
of six men who are hyping each other up in the gym, working out. Like, I, I notice that a lot, and but I notice it so much more in sports. And so when I was thinking about it, I realized that so many men connect through activities. Women connect through, we'll go get, uh, our nails done together. That's a space to talk. You can't do much else but talk. You go get a coffee. What do you do? You talk and have a coffee. And I think a lot of the way that women spend time together creates space for emotional conversations, creates space and time to have that, whereas a lot of the time when men meet, they go to the pub to watch a game. They'll, they'll play an activity. It doesn't leave room or space to have a conversation except for before, like, "Oh, did you watch that game?" And then after it's like, "Oh, yeah, I'm gonna go watch that other game."
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs]
- RDRadhi Devlukia
And so I think-
- JSJay Shetty
Is that what men sound like to you?
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yeah, that's what they sound ... "Oh, yeah, just gonna have a pint."
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Um, but I think that the way that they spend time together kind of reflects what you're talking about.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah, yeah. That's, uh ... Yeah, I never thought about it like that. You're right.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Men get your nails done more together, okay?
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs] You're right that I have to make a concerted effort to find time to talk to my friends before or after we play pickleball or padel-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Mm
- JSJay Shetty
... whatever it may be. So you're spot on. The way I like to spend time with my friends is we play sports together. We're outdoors together. We're watching a game together. So I have to make an added effort, as a man who does not feel lonely, I have to make an added effort to spend time with my friends. Now, I get this question a lot because we also both moved, and so I live in LA now. We live in LA, and we were born and raised in London. So all my best friends, i.e. my friends that know me the best, know me 360, all live in London.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Mm.
- JSJay Shetty
And one of them just moved to Dubai. And so when I tell people that I speak to my best mate, who was my best man at my wedding, three times a week-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Mm
- JSJay Shetty
... most people are absolutely shocked.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
They're like, "How?" Now, I have to give credit because he also picks up.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Mm.
- JSJay Shetty
He also makes time. He also makes a massive effort. But the reality is that at one point, I realized that if we were not talking two to three times a week, I would feel lonely because he is my closest friend. He does know me the best. He has known me for the last 20 years.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And so for me, that set upHas what's allowed me to not feel lonely because my life is busy. Also, I think when you get married, naturally on the weeknights, I wanna spend time with you.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And we're investing in our relationship, and my friends who are in relationships are also investing in their relationship. So if I'm now only seeing mates once a week, maybe once every two weeks, maybe once every month, how are we gonna keep that relationship up? How am I not gonna feel lonely because I don't have the time to be vulnerable? If I'm only seeing you once a month, I may not be confident or comfortable enough to open my heart-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Mm
- JSJay Shetty
... to be vulnerable. And I think for men in general, being vulnerable has been a long-term difficulty.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
I think about a lot of the men that I've seen and who've had that kind of surface level connection, not surface level, but not, um, a place of conversation with their friends where they can really speak about their heart. "I'm actually feeling really, like, down today." Like, I- you would not, not normally
- 6:58 – 12:06
Rethinking the Alpha Male Mindset
- RDRadhi Devlukia
hear a man say that to their friend. How can someone who's used to doing these activities with their friends, who's used to connecting to them based on having a drink or going out and playing a sport, how do you make that transition? 'Cause I saw this trend on TikTok, and it was these guys calling, what, you know, that good night trend, but then it also turned into the one where you call and say, "I'm just calling to say good night to you." And then also there was a trend saying, "Oh, do you think I should get therapy?" A guy calling and asking their friends, "Do you think I should get therapy?" And it was really interesting because you could tell the guys who don't have that connection with their friends, they'd be like, "Oh, why are you being such a loser? Why do you just go get-
- JSJay Shetty
Wow
- RDRadhi Devlukia
... or like, or, or saying-
- JSJay Shetty
I didn't see that
- RDRadhi Devlukia
... or saying, um, you know, making fun of it versus even believing that it could be true. And so how would a guy who's so used to having 20 years of this friendship where it's based on jokes and laughter and not really talking about what's going on s- make that switch? 'Cause that can be quite uncomfortable for-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- RDRadhi Devlukia
... a lot of people, I imagine.
- JSJay Shetty
I mean, that, you've raised such a good point, and I never saw that trend, but that's actually really sad for me that even-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Mm
- JSJay Shetty
... in this day and age, when a man has plucked up the courage to say something like that, that it's met with that kind of reaction.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
'Cause you'd hope that there are athletes today who've talked about their mental health.
- SPSpeaker
Understand that it's okay to not be okay.
- JSJay Shetty
It's time to talk. It's time to change.
- SPSpeaker
You know, you got so much responsibility, um, as a athlete to your team. You know, you gotta play at a certain level, and, um, your teammates counting on you. You got the pressure from the media. Everybody's going through something, and everybody, uh, you know, has things that you can't see, you can't touch. It is time for sport to accept its responsibility with this issue.
- JSJay Shetty
There are athletes and sports and actors and musicians, male, who've spoken about the challenges with their mental health on all their platforms. I feel like we're living at a time where some of the toughest, strongest men on the planet talk about these things.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Mm.
- JSJay Shetty
And so I think we've gotta shift the narrative that when you say something vulnerable, that you're weak-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... or that in some way you're a loser or in some way that you're not strong. But I think as we have these athletes and superstars talking about their pain, I think there's also been a trend online which is of the alpha male, which is this idea of if you're a high-value man, you don't talk about your feelings.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Oh.
- JSJay Shetty
You just have discipline, and you break through it. And I always find this really, really interesting because I consider myself to be quite alpha, and I consider myself to be quite emotionally engaged. And so I've always tried to do both, and I don't see them as a paradox. I see both as strength.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Right.
- JSJay Shetty
So I'm disciplined. I enjoy working out. I enjoy competition.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
I love all those things. Yeah, you're, you're nodding because you're like, "Yeah."
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yeah. [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
I'm extremely competitive, and at the same time, I think talking about my feelings is really important, emotional vulnerability is really important, and being able to make space for my friends and share is really important. So I think a part of it is, first of all, accepting within yourself that it's okay.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Right.
- JSJay Shetty
I think even before you start looking for people to share it with, do you still think it's a weakness?
- 12:06 – 16:06
There’s No Growth Without Vulnerability
- RDRadhi Devlukia
... I find them really funny, but at the same time, I can see how for an, a man who's trying to be more emotional, it can make you shut down. It's, um-You know, tr- when you have to now treat your man like a princess. And it essentially saying that men are being too emotional these days. And I think these days women seem to want a man who is emotionally available, but not emotional.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
So they want someone who's emotionally available, like, "Oh, I need him to understand me, and I want him to get where I'm coming from, and I want him to be attuned to me, but then I don't want him to cry." Like, I don't want, I don't want him to... [laughs] I remember my, when we were talking about icks, one of my friends said that one of her biggest icks is seeing a man cry or, like, be emotional.
- JSJay Shetty
Wow.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
And I was like, "Oh, wow." Like, okay, that's, it's so interesting.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
But, but I do think whether a woman says it or not, there's qui- there's quite a few people who feel that way, where a man crying is still seen as being a weakness-
- JSJay Shetty
Mm
- RDRadhi Devlukia
... but I still want you to be emotionally available to me. And so I think for men, seeing stuff like that online, we think it's, people think it's just funny, but I think that can be really difficult because it stops you then from also being okay with the idea that I should be able to cry, be unhappy, show that I'm feeling upset, depressed, whatever it is. And so I think a lot of what we see online can really play a role in how we feel.
- JSJay Shetty
And that's what makes it hard for men because they then think... Now, whether that's... Sometimes it's so interesting as well because social media perception is also not reality.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Totally.
- JSJay Shetty
But then we start believing that is, and then men go, "God, I can't share that emotion around her 'cause she's gonna think I'm weak, but then I'm carrying this load and I don't know what to do with it."
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Which then changes me as a partner, as a person-
- JSJay Shetty
Totally
- RDRadhi Devlukia
... being able to connect to other people.
- JSJay Shetty
And you would hope, you, you taught me this, and I, I loved it when you said it to me years ago, which was this idea that, and that's why your podcast is called A Really Good Cry, was this idea that crying and laughing are actually just the same-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Two sides of the same coin
- JSJay Shetty
... in that they're expressions of an emotion.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Mm.
- JSJay Shetty
And when you think something's lu- when you, when you think something's really funny, you don't have to think about laughing. Like, you don't go, oh-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... that's really funny, I'm now gonna laugh. You just laugh-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Right
- JSJay Shetty
... because it's funny. You don't have to think about crying. Crying is something that happens when something affects you in your gut or your heart or your emotion. You just cry. You don't go, "Oh, now I'm gonna cry."
- RDRadhi Devlukia
You also don't stop laughter, but people stop tears.
- JSJay Shetty
Correct. Yeah.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Or people will say, "Stop crying, stop crying."
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yes.
- JSJay Shetty
You never say to someone, "Stop laughing. Stop laughing."
- 16:06 – 21:35
Men Need Friendship Dates Too!
- JSJay Shetty
Why are you starting beef?
- RDRadhi Devlukia
But honestly, Kendrick, those were some bars.
- JSJay Shetty
Right? It's just-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... it's, I, I'm, I'm sharing that because I hope it's empowering for men because you see, you know-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
A rapper, yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... all the conversation around Kendrick is like, oh, yeah, rapper. He's, he's having this rap battle. He's at the Super Bowl. You know, all this stuff, and it's like, but this is what he's saying about himself-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... and his life, and he's talking about how his dad was tough. His dad never showed any weakness, and he learned that, but he's actually saying, "I wish I learned the power of vulnerability earlier." And so I'm like, that's coming from, you know-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
It's really difficult for people who, you know, they're just thinking about him as a rapper, but it's, I guess if someone who's a rapper and in that scene and in that environment can do something like that, it gives hope to people who may be in an environment like we were talking about before, that find it difficult to break out of that same cycle of spending time with people. But I do think that community is, is the key factor to feeling like you can open up, and I think building community is one of the hardest things that people find. And that's why I think loneliness, especially in men, if they're, if they're not in a pa- if they're not in a partnership, that also forces them to come together with couples and meet other men. It's like, where do people meet other people?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. And that's why, that's why I think... But I think the other challenge is for men is that I think women like to gather in groups, but sometimes men have better conversations one-to-one.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Right.
- JSJay Shetty
I was at dinner last night with a guy that, uh, someone that I, I became friends with early on. We were part of a meditation group that I was teaching. I bumped into him randomly at a grocery store once. We spent three hours that evening together.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Oh, wow. Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
We both have crazy travel schedules. We don't see each other often, but we happened to be in London. He's leaving today, and we made time to go to dinner together, and I'm not, we had, we both had the best time.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
That's so nice.
- JSJay Shetty
And we probably spent three hours talking. It was full on open conversation, like we dove in deep in 30 minutes, and we both walked away going, "We need to do that more." And I feel like that, like when I'm with a man one-on-one and we're at the same frequency, I can lock in. Actually, when I'm in group environments, I really struggle-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Harder
- JSJay Shetty
... because you're trying to-Create a cohesive environment, but there may be two guys over there who just wanna talk about the football
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yes
- JSJay Shetty
There may be another two guys over there who just wanna talk about whatever they, you know, whatever's happening at work or whatever it is. And then there's a couple of you that actually wanna go deeper, but you can't because you can't direct what eight people are doing
- RDRadhi Devlukia
It throws off the frequency
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
Whereas I feel like women will all talk about one subject-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yes
- JSJay Shetty
... together, whereas I think a lot of men, I know personally that I feel building one-to-one friendships is the space where I get to do that. And it was interesting because this was talking about emotional conditioning and how girls and boys start out on the same trajectory of prioritizing friendships, but boys feel pressure to give up their same sex friendships because it feels girly
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Oh, no
- JSJay Shetty
So that idea of like hanging out together and us talking about our feelings, boys are conditioned to feel that that's a girly thing to do
- RDRadhi Devlukia
What you felt with that guy-
- 21:35 – 25:33
Do You Truly Feel Seen?
- JSJay Shetty
going, "Oh, we could do this any time"
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Mm
- JSJay Shetty
Because maybe the conversation stays surface level. So there is a bit of frequency matching, even in a friendship
- RDRadhi Devlukia
You have to assess the situation
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. Like, I don't think e- and I also don't think every friend of yours, to be a real friend, has to have a deep conversation with
- RDRadhi Devlukia
No
- JSJay Shetty
There are friends that I'm happy to call up and be like, "Did you see what Manchester United just did?" Like-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yeah, yeah, yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... I want to have that relationship with them, and I would love if that can also go to, "Mate, how are you feeling today?" But not every relationship has to do that, and so sometimes I also feel we put too much pressure-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... on everyone in our life to be everything
- RDRadhi Devlukia
What do you think are some good questions then that people could ask themselves, like men? What are some good questions that men could ask themselves to understand, am I feeling l- like, am I feeling like I don't have a good connection with people? But then also questions that they can maybe open up this idea of vulnerability with their friends with that doesn't feel too scary or too intense
- JSJay Shetty
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- RDRadhi Devlukia
Mm. Even one friend
- JSJay Shetty
Even one friend
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
That, that's something I would look atAnd then I would also ask for a man, do you have one friend that you could call to share your biggest win with? 'Cause sometimes that can be harder-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yes, that's... Yes. Good one
- JSJay Shetty
... because sharing your pain is hard, but sharing your success is harder-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Mm-hmm
- JSJay Shetty
... because it can come across as bravado, arrogance-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yes
- JSJay Shetty
... et cetera. And so you may feel you have to play your success down. And so I think that's what I would look at, so that helps you figure out whether you're lonely or not. And then it's like, do you feel you have someone in your life who doesn't judge you and gives you the space to be all of yourself? And that's what you said, women need that too. We all want a space-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... in our life where we feel seen and not judged.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yes, exactly.
- JSJay Shetty
Actually, you say this, this is really interesting. This guy came up to me, uh, he worked at the restaurant that I went to last night, and he came up to me afterwards when I was leaving and he said, "Hey, I listen to the podcast, really love what you're doing. Me and my wife love what you and your wife are doing." And he said, "But sometimes I just don't feel seen."
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Oh, interesting.
- JSJay Shetty
And he said, "Sometimes I feel only successful people feel seen, and I'm still trying to become successful and I'm not there yet." And, and I said to him, I said, "Actually, successful people also don't
- 25:33 – 28:22
How Loneliness Impacts Your Health
- JSJay Shetty
feel seen because they feel seen through a particular lens, whereas the most seen I feel is when I'm with my wife or with, um, a, a deep old friend that I know and they see all of me."
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Mm.
- JSJay Shetty
And I was like, "You're gonna feel more seen if you spend time with people deeply and individually than you are if you have a global brand."
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yeah, if you have lots of eyes on you-
- JSJay Shetty
If you have lots of eyes-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
... it doesn't mean you feel seen
- JSJay Shetty
... it doesn't mean you feel seen.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
It's like you w- you have views, but you don't feel seen.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Mm.
- JSJay Shetty
And because people are ultimately catching you for 30 seconds and making a judgment on you.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yes.
- JSJay Shetty
And so anyway, it was... I, I know I got off on a tangent, but-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
No, but that's really... You- that's such a good point. I think, you know, even when you're younger you think you need more friends, and you have to have m- multiple people that you can do different things with. But as you get older, you realize that it's not necessarily about having how many people you can invite to your birthday. I was planning my birthday recently, and I remember calling, I was like, "I think I have, like, eight friends who I can call here maybe," and I don't even know if all of them are gonna end up coming. And at that, at that time it made me realize how, how thankful I am for just those eight friends. It wasn't, "Oh, I've got 20 family members coming and, like, eight friends coming," it was, "Oh wow, I've got eight friends that are here that I want to spend time with." And then I was trying to collect other people and add people to it that I was like, "Do I really need these people here?"
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
"Or am I trying to collect numbers to feel like I've got more friends unnecessarily?"
- JSJay Shetty
Right.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
And so I think the, the views versus being seen is a really important part of when you're thinking about friendships because you don't need to have 100 people at your birthday party. You need three people that you can go to when you're in your hardest moments, when you feel like you've done something that you need to talk about, that you're judging yourself about, that you feel that person's not gonna judge you for, and that's so much more important than having the 30 friends at your birthday party.
- JSJay Shetty
I'm so glad you made my tangent relevant.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yeah, yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
[laughs] It was really good. That was really good. But no, that's exactly it. Like, I think, I think a lot of men feel lonely because we're always in crowds. That's the idea, that you're always in groups. And so that same idea that you're saying is that we've always been taught that more friends means more happiness.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yes.
- JSJay Shetty
And less friends can actually equal more happiness if there's more intimacy-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Totally
- JSJay Shetty
... and more depth to that relationship. Loneliness l- is linked to depression, anxiety, dementia, diabetes, stroke, and heart disease, and loneliness can be as harmful as smoking 15 cigarettes per day.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
Studies show.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
When I, um, worked at the hospital, I would do these clinics for elderly, and it would be to do with them not eating in. It was so interesting, the underweight people that used to come in in the elderly clinics would be, like, 80% men and only 20% women because they talk about how, especially for men, their eating habits, the way that they connect to people, if they're not having that interaction
- 28:22 – 31:35
Why Women Often Build Stronger Social Circles
- RDRadhi Devlukia
and if their partner's passed away or whatever, they lose the will to do much else in their life.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
And so it was really interesting seeing how 80% of those m- people that were coming in at el- at older state were people who were lonely, spent most of their time in their home. And, uh, even when it came to dementia, it says being in a community or feeling a sense of purpose in your life, whether it is within a community or whether it is with your partner, completely changes the trajectory of your... the, the progression of dementia.
- JSJay Shetty
Mm.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Um, and your longevity and the feeling of being wanted and needed in this world is so important to help keep your mental state alive. And so for men especially, I think there's a... I've seen so many w- el- older women who are able to get back up faster once their partner's died. But I think naturally for a man, from what I've seen, it ends up being a lot more difficult. So I think that's another reason why having friends is so important. Don't think about it for now, you have to think about it for your future of when you are in a situation where maybe you have to be alone f- or away from your partner. Do I have people that I'm gonna be able to turn to in those moments? Because that's what community's supposed to be there for.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. And, and, and the research shows that men are happier when they're married, but women are unhappy when they're married. [laughs]
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Really?
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. Or, or at least i- i- in that-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Oh, my lord. That's some
- JSJay Shetty
... I think, I du- I think the act-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Ah
- JSJay Shetty
... I think the actual study says that men live longer when they're married.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Mm, mm-hmm.
- JSJay Shetty
And women don't live as long when they're married-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
I c- I've seen that
- JSJay Shetty
... because women carry on more stress.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And men are actually helped by the marriage.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
You notice that when people lose their partners at a young age or even at old age-
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah
- RDRadhi Devlukia
... men struggle so much more than women do. Women are just used to going through the pain. They also are used to most of the systems and the things that they have to do in the house, like, they're able to adapt faster.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Whereas I think for men that's really difficult.
- JSJay Shetty
Yeah. This one was really interesting, and it's kinda based on what you're saying. There's thisUh, Jeffrey Hall, a professor of communication studies at the University of Kansas who studies friendships, he previously found it can take 200 hours to make a close friend.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
200 hours.
- JSJay Shetty
And he talks about how men rely on their wives to develop the social calendar. So they think-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Interesting
- JSJay Shetty
... "She'll do it, and I don't have to do it." And he says that there's a, a challenge in their skillset.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
[laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
So it's the idea that women plan the social calendar, and men just tag along to whatever the women plan. And so they don't ever think about, "Well, I need to find a ma- ... Uh, I need to do this. I need to do that. My wife's kinda planned the weekend. We'll just do whatever she says." And so he doesn't really-
- 31:35 – 36:39
Learning How to Be a Better Friend
- JSJay Shetty
was a bit tired.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
So glad I didn't, and that's where systems help. And so it's like, who do you wanna see once a week? Who do you wanna see once a month? Who do you wanna see once a quarter, and who do you wanna see once a year? If you have a list of the people in those-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
That's so good
- JSJay Shetty
... buckets-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... it becomes really, really simple. So I'm with you every day. Whenever we're in the same country, we're together every day, which is awesome. And then, but then there's friends. I'm like, "Okay, I'm gonna see you once or twice a week. I'm gonna see you..."
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Mm.
- JSJay Shetty
And that allows me to simplify my life, and now it's not random. And then I don't go three months and go, "Why haven't I seen that person?"
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
"I love them. Like, I love seeing them." And it's like, well, no, just have it in the system.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yes.
- JSJay Shetty
And now I don't have to feel that way. And so I'm just allowing myself to be more effective with friendships. And th- people think that that might be businesslike or transactional. Actually, that's what love and respect actually is, where it's like, "I respect you enough. You're in the calendar. I wanna see you every month."
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yes.
- JSJay Shetty
And it allows us to deepen our friendship, and then at the end of the year we get to think about all the amazing memories we made.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
I think what we all have to realize is that friendship is a learned skill.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yeah.
- JSJay Shetty
And it's not something you're born with. And so we almost assume that people should know how to be a good friend. We assume people should know how to be a good partner. We assume someone should know how to be a good parent. And the reality is all of those skills are learned. And so for me as a man, if you're listening to this right now and you're feeling lonely, I want you to know that there are other men out there that feel lonely.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Mm.
- JSJay Shetty
Which means that you actually have the opportunity to become community for each other, and that truly starts with you having the courage to share something vulnerably, openly, honestly, and seeing who matches that frequency.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Right.
- JSJay Shetty
And it's as simple as that, is not everyone's gonna match your frequency. Someone might joke with you. Someone might laugh at you. Someone might just play it off. That's okay, because chances are in five to 10 years' time, they may come back to you and say, "I'm sorry I did that. I'm going through something right now." But for now they aren't that person.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Right.
- JSJay Shetty
That doesn't mean they're bad. It doesn't mean you reject them. Just go find the people that you wanna connect with. How have you seen men in your life, apart from me-
- RDRadhi Devlukia
Yeah
- JSJay Shetty
... struggle or do well in friendships? What has worked for them, and what have, what has not worked for them?
- RDRadhi Devlukia
I think sometimes, well, especially in our community, men have a lot of family members that they can, like, socialize with. But I have noticed as time goes on, you know, I think about my dad, and I remember he used to have, like, a huge social life when he was younger. And then as he's gotten older and older, that pool has definitely gotten smaller and smaller. But he... I randomly walk into his office, or I randomly walk into the room, and he's having a conversation with the, his best friend, my uncle, who he's known since he was at university. And they're talking about things, whether it's through their physical health or their, you know, here and there, but they'll still have these once-a-month catch-up conversations. He doesn't really see them. They don't go out necessarily. They don't go out and have a meal together. But he has these two or three people who I know he is speaking to. There's, like, Andreas. There's m- my uncle. There's one other person. I know that he has these people that will check in on him and that he's checking in on. And so I think friendships also change as time goes on. They don't have to look the same way. You don't have to be going out ... I don't know why I keep saying the pub. Why do I keep thinking about those today? [laughs]
- JSJay Shetty
You really love a pub.
- RDRadhi Devlukia
You don't have to keep going out to the pub to meet your friends, but you know that those people are still available to you.
Episode duration: 36:39
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