MATTHEW MCCONAUGHEY: The BIGGEST Mistake You are Making in LIFE! (I Wish I Knew THIS Sooner!)

Jay Shetty 0:00 [instrumental music] When you think about your life right now, you do so much. You were just talking about all the projects and travel and everything. If you ever get a day that has no plan, no schedule, no timeline, no phone-

Matthew McConaughey 0:37 Mm.

Jay Shetty 0:38 -no commitments, what does that look like for you?

Matthew McConaughey 0:39 Oh. I don't get many of those, and I need to... My hunch is I need to learn to get m- more of those. And when I get 'em, I can be better at 'em.

Jay Shetty 0:49 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 0:50 Because I have a love of accomplishment, to even feel a significance for the day.

Jay Shetty 0:57 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 0:57 You know, I sleep better, um, when I have a purpose and I went after something, even if it's just building something. And, um, I w- I'm, I'm still learning. I'm gonna remind myself now, I used to be better at it, actually, to just go daydream. Mosey. Let's take a mo- everything's gonna swing

Matthew McConaughey 1:16 by today. That's one thing. I've start- I quit calling ap- appointments appointments and call 'em swing bys.

Jay Shetty 1:21 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:21 And all of a sudden I find I get just as much done, but I, but I'm just... It's just in my dance-

Jay Shetty 1:25 Yeah. Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 1:26 ...of the day. But if I have one full day off, um, I will get my nine-and-a-half hours sleep, which is pr- preferred, which means maybe I sleep till 9:30. I'll get up, um, take my time, mosey down. If Camila was up, my wife was up before me, she'll have left me a, a matcha tea. If, uh, if she wasn't or had to rush out the door, I'll go make that tea. While the water's boiling, I'll, I'll go probably, uh, do eight pieces of a puzzle, which is a, a wonderful way. I love starting my day on that slow, simple, ah, eight little connections.

Jay Shetty 2:02 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 2:03 Ha. You made, you rhymed eight different things.

Jay Shetty 2:05 Yes.

Matthew McConaughey 2:05 Very simple. Then I'll usually head out to the, maybe the front porch, have that first tea, catch, hopefully catch 15 minutes of some morning sun and face. Um, then I'll, uh, um, catch up on the, on the, the, the, the, the world's news, what's happening. Uh, maybe I'll do my Wordle. Couple simple-

Jay Shetty 2:25 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 2:25 ...little things. I'm gonna try and play tennis somewhere in the day.

Jay Shetty 2:29 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 2:29 I'm gonna try and break a sweat somewhere during the day. Um, I'll take some project or something that I'm working on or writing with me maybe to my gym and have one of those lazy little two-and-a-half hour workouts where you kind of stop and write some things, and then you kind of get, hop back into it. And then, uh, I'm probably gonna cook dinner that night when I don't have anything going on.

Jay Shetty 2:51 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 2:52 So either I'm gonna get the ribeyes and, and, and rub 'em down in my rub and have everything, and, and, and, or I'm gonna do tuna melts for the family that night. Um, and then, uh, kids and everyone come home. We'll usually hang. I'm picking, I'm saying this day that I have off is a school day.

Jay Shetty 3:08 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 3:08 And, uh, we'll hang, catch up on days. After that, maybe we, the family will all go catch something, one of our favorite shows. We'll go watch an hour, and if we start early enough, maybe we get two episodes.

Jay Shetty 3:20 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 3:21 Kids will go down, then, uh, Camila and I get to hang and, uh, for the last couple hours of the evening. That'd be, that'd be a mosey through my day-day.

Jay Shetty 3:31 Nice. I love that.

Matthew McConaughey 3:32 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 3:32 How, how... Obviously, the, uh, mindset of achievement and purpose and growth has served you so well, but there's a part of you that sounds like, "I would like more days like this." Where does that come from?

Matthew McConaughey 3:44 I love to be on task. I love to have something that I'm building and reaching to finish and, and do. I love the building of that. I've started a lot of the campfires in my life that I'm still building. Um, and I have plenty to fill my 24-hour days. At the same time, I wanna keep learning and, and be inspired by something new.

Jay Shetty 4:08 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 4:08 You know, pick up something that I didn't... Like, I just picked up tennis four years ago. I didn't have... I noticed, I said, "You haven't had a hobby for 25 years, McConaughey. You found your first hobby." I thought writing was a hobby. And I was like, no, that's actually not a hobby. You know? But to find,

Matthew McConaughey 4:23 to be open to finding a new hobby, a new, to go somewhere and not, "I don't know. Where are we going?" "Oh, we're just going for a walk."

Jay Shetty 4:30 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 4:31 To no destination in particular.

Jay Shetty 4:34 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 4:34 You know? To, to lose track of time-

Jay Shetty 4:37 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 4:37 ...with success and with a busy life, and I got a full life, and I got a family, and I got a career. I, my hunch is that while that can fill my days completely, for my own evolution and art, just to make sure I can still have that beginner's mind where I can da- go da- go daydream-

Jay Shetty 4:55 Mm

Matthew McConaughey 4:55 ...for nothing in particular. Go f- go, go, go where your nose takes you.

Jay Shetty 5:00 Mm-hmm. [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 5:00 You know what I mean? Or go where your ears take you. Follow that. To give my, to make sure I'm giving myself time to let that happen-

Jay Shetty 5:08 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 5:08 ...I think is a good pro- I think is a good... It, it always seems to pay off.

Jay Shetty 5:12 Yes. Yes.

Matthew McConaughey 5:12 And it never is looked at as, like, time not well spent.

Jay Shetty 5:15 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 5:16 You know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 5:16 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 5:16 But in the time, I can get a little bit anxious and be like, "Let's do. Let's get ahead on that thing," you know? "Let's, let's bring that thing that you were supposed to have done next Friday. What if we got that done now?"

Jay Shetty 5:27 Yeah. Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 5:28 You know?

Jay Shetty 5:28 I can relate to that.

Matthew McConaughey 5:29 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 5:29 I can, I can relate to that, and I can see it too in, in how easy it is as someone who loves what they do and loves creating and building and how-

Matthew McConaughey 5:38 That's-

Jay Shetty 5:38 I, I fully get it.

Matthew McConaughey 5:39 That's-

Jay Shetty 5:39 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 5:40 I mean, there's the upside, and I'm, I'm not over here bitching about that.

Jay Shetty 5:42 No, no, no. Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 5:43 I, I, I'm just happy to have things in my life that I love to build and do.

Jay Shetty 5:47 Yeah. Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 5:47 My wife knows it. She, I'm, I'm probably most happy, it's probably obvious, when I'm, when I'm working, when I have a, when I have a schedule, when I have a day that is this many hours or 12 hours, or I just got through shooting something for two months, and then boom, hopped off. The next day went into shooting something for three days. I l- I love that. I sleep well. The food tastes-

Jay Shetty 6:08 Mm-hmm

Matthew McConaughey 6:08 ...a little better to me that night. That cocktail, that, uh, Patrón on ice tastes better that night. I'm actually, I think, have more timeAnd I'm a better father to my kids, [laughs] the conversations, and I'm more present when I have that, uh, sense of accomplishment through the day.

Jay Shetty 6:28 Yeah. What's, uh... You've written so many chapters. You've lived so many chapters. What would this chapter of your life be called?

Matthew McConaughey 6:36 Ooh, that's a great question. Um, so I'm just turning 56, and 40s were my favorite decade. I think I really customized, and I found that to be true for a lot of people, especially a lot of the men I've talked to. They go, "Man, 40s, ooh, you get rid of all that stuff where you're wasting your time, and you're honing in on the stuff that turns you on." Um, look, 50s, I'm still in, uh... The ear- the first, the first few years of 50s were a little wobbly for me. So you go, "Oh, is this that midlife crisis?" And I go, "Well, what is that?" I don't like the word crisis on that. Sounds like a midlife, for lack of

Matthew McConaughey 7:20 a better word, opportunity. You just... It's a time where, for whatever reason, man looks back and goes, "What have I done, and now where am I going?" And I think my hunch is that most people go through what they call a midlife crisis, and if it's hard for them or not healthy for them, it's because maybe they're not giving enough credit to what they actually have done to get there.

Jay Shetty 7:40 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 7:40 You know? It's like, "Oh, no, I did that."

Jay Shetty 7:42 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 7:42 "Done. Next." You know? Like we're talking about me. I need more accomplishment. Well, wait a minute. Sometimes it's all right to go, what, what did you do back there that actually you're still building? What if we take that to another level? Uh, put another log on that fire.

Jay Shetty 7:56 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 7:57 My goal when I hit the 50s, it, my, my goal, it, it came to me, was like, hey, you're an actor. You, you, you, you, you play a character in someone else's script that someone else wrote, directed by someone else, lensed in a camera from someone else, and edited by someone else before your performance is shared. And I love acting, but I go, there's four filters of my raw expression before it's getting to you. We were talking about this before we got on camera today. You got, you go on stage, boom, it's direct. This is pretty direct, but there's still a filter here.

Jay Shetty 8:31 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 8:32 You know what I mean? Writing, there's still one filter. That's, but that's when I headed into writing is I wanted to get rid of three of the filters, and that's when I said, oh, what if I write the word? Can I pull off and give someone, translate the human experience where they, people can see themselves through words?

Jay Shetty 8:49 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 8:49 Can I paint a picture of my own experiences which someone else can go, "Oh, I've been there. I know what you're talking about"? But that's still a filter. So the challenge I've been, that, that keeps just gnawing at me since I've turned 50 is like, what's your documentary? What, what, what are you doing? Are you a character in life, in the big show, the one that our action was called the day you were born, and cut will be called the day you die? What, what, what are you doing live? Is that worth a show?

Jay Shetty 9:26 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 9:27 Is it entertaining? Is it educational? Is it insp- is it fulfilling? Is it, does it turn you on? Could it turn other people, put people on? What's happened? That's, that's... Now we're talking no filters. And so I've started to question myself. I'm going, "What, what's your... Let's ex- let's, let's think about do you, is there other avenues for you to live life instead of doing someone else's script? What's your script?" Now, it's led me to think about different ways of leadership. It's led me to, to write more. It's also led me to go, on the hard days, to give myself a little amnesty and go, "Dude, take a little wisdom from Bob Dylan." It ta- you're all, you're, you are what you create yourself to be.

Jay Shetty 10:12 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 10:13 Every, y- maybe d- if you feel more alive acting in a show through a character, well, bravo. That's still you. Don't act like that's not you. You should get to your real self. I mean, you are... To be the creation, and it's okay if I'm gonna go play a part. We're all playing a part.

Jay Shetty 10:31 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 10:32 Are we playing, uh, if we can get to a part that is essentially close to essentially who we are, bravo for us. If we can't, we're having trouble doing that, if we can play a part that we're good at and shows a piece, and, and translates to show a piece of humanity, turns other people in and us on, even though it may not be corely who we are, well, [laughs] bravo for getting away with that one too.

Jay Shetty 10:53 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 10:54 You know? But play one at a time is another, is another little tip I have to remind myself. 'Cause the great performers, whether I think in life or in acting, you know, they, they, they can play any part. They can be any creation, but they're always one at a time.

Jay Shetty 11:14 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 11:15 And that's where some patience has to come in. That's where a bit of that, hey, don't rush to accomplish. Just play one part at a time.

Jay Shetty 11:23 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 11:24 But as life gets big, and you've got a career, and you've got a family, there's many parts to play.

Jay Shetty 11:28 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 11:28 You know? Father, husband, performer, you know? Or, or writer, whatever those are. But as you know, with practice, those all, that, instead of feeling like five different hats you gotta wear one day, you go, "Oh, that's all part of the same story. That's all part of the same man I am."

Jay Shetty 11:44 Mm-hmm. So the chapter would be called One, One at a Time?

Matthew McConaughey 11:48 The chapter would be called, ah, I wish it was called... Sometimes I think it should be called One at a Time. The long, my long answer to what would the chapter be would be, uh, um-

Jay Shetty 11:55 I loved your answer

Matthew McConaughey 11:56 ... we've got a, um... I opened up eight lanes to about 12 lanes.

Jay Shetty 12:04 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 12:05 When you open up to more lanes, and you've been comfortable on these eight, and you know them well, well, there's a little growing pains with getting comfortable in those other new lanes, um, without disregarding my eight that I've built-

Jay Shetty 12:20 Mm

Matthew McConaughey 12:20 ... that I've built that I'm comfortable in.

Jay Shetty 12:21 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 12:22 You know?

Jay Shetty 12:22 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 12:22 So I would say-Four more lanes

Jay Shetty 12:25 Mm. Four more lanes

Matthew McConaughey 12:26 Let's call that chapter, let's call it Four More Lanes.

Jay Shetty 12:28 Four More Lanes.

Matthew McConaughey 12:28 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 12:29 Yeah. It's interesting listening to you because I think you've highlighted a really interesting human trait that we all possess, where when we achieve something and it's no longer useful, we start to denigrate it. So for example, if I think a certain mindset is gonna help me at this point in my life, I'll use it, it will get me to where I wanna get to, and then when I get there I'll go, "Oh, I didn't like that mindset. I wish I was this way." And we kind of do that time and time again-

Matthew McConaughey 13:00 Yeah

Jay Shetty 13:00 ... and I assume decade by decade, where we reject the thing that got us here-

Matthew McConaughey 13:06 Yeah

Jay Shetty 13:07 ... and don't value it because now it isn't what the new-

Matthew McConaughey 13:11 Right

Jay Shetty 13:11 ... world looks like. It's like, and making it very basic, a crude example is, oh, I used, I thought that was cool to wear, and now 10 years later I look back-

Matthew McConaughey 13:19 Right, right

Jay Shetty 13:19 ... and I think, "Why was I wearing that?"

Matthew McConaughey 13:20 Right.

Jay Shetty 13:20 Like, I'm crazy.

Matthew McConaughey 13:20 Right.

Jay Shetty 13:21 And but think about that on an internal soul level-

Matthew McConaughey 13:23 Yeah

Jay Shetty 13:24 ... of the mindsets we wear and the behaviors we wear and-

Matthew McConaughey 13:26 Yeah

Jay Shetty 13:26 ... like taking a moment, as you said, to give yourself that amnesty to say-

Matthew McConaughey 13:30 Well, yeah. And to, and to make sense of you with the default emotion when you look back and you're embarrassed of something you did that actually got you what you wanted.

Jay Shetty 13:38 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 13:38 To go, "Pfft," you know?

Jay Shetty 13:40 Yeah. [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 13:40 To go, instead of judging it, at least start off giggling at it. It helps with the amnesty.

Jay Shetty 13:46 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 13:46 It also helps change a gear and go, oh, the realization of, oh, I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have learned that lesson if I wouldn't have been such an egotistical prick at the time, because I wouldn't have had the confidence to put myself in the situation to get humbled.

Jay Shetty 13:58 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 13:59 You know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 13:59 Yes.

Matthew McConaughey 13:59 You, you can look at all the piles of S-H-I-T we step in, and they lead to, [laughs] you know, the clean, the clean water we get to drink from the, from the well down the line, or the truth we figure out. I mean, it's, it's, it's, you know I say that, uh, it's a mystery going forward, it's the science looking back.

Jay Shetty 14:19 Mm. Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 14:20 You know?

Jay Shetty 14:20 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 14:21 'Cause ev- we can all connect the dots to exactly where we are right now, and there's a science to it. Even, and, and that science has to do with when we face planted and tripped ourselves and messed up, or went about it the wrong way but maybe got the outcome we wanted, or went about it the wrong way and didn't get the outcome we wanted. I think that has a lot to do with our... And I don't know, do you think this is a Western thing, our relationship with failure? We're embar- we, we, in some ways I wish we were more embarrassed.

Jay Shetty 14:55 [laughs] Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 14:55 All right? But in other ways I'm like, we have to get a... With children, you know?

Jay Shetty 14:59 Yes.

Matthew McConaughey 14:59 It's like, they're afraid to fail, and it's like, no, no, no. I, if anything, if I look back, I always answer the question, what would you do different? I wish, I wish I would've taken more risk and failed more.

Jay Shetty 15:07 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 15:07 And I'm still trying to challenge myself to that-

Jay Shetty 15:09 Mm-hmm

Matthew McConaughey 15:09 ... today, but we have this relationship with failure-

Jay Shetty 15:12 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 15:12 ... it's like an embarrassing thing to do, instead of shaking it and just going, "No, failure will happen." And if it doesn't happen, you're probably not taking enough risk or you're not getting out of your comfort zone. So, no, failure is part of the successful path. It's necessary.

Jay Shetty 15:28 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 15:28 And we don't have a good relationship with it. Do you, is that a-

Jay Shetty 15:32 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 15:32 ... a Western thinking?

Jay Shetty 15:33 I think it comes from the Western versus Eastern ideology of time. So, in Eastern traditions, time is cyclical, and in Western traditions, time is linear.

Matthew McConaughey 15:44 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 15:44 And as soon as you make time linear, failure means a step behind.

Matthew McConaughey 15:48 Right.

Jay Shetty 15:48 But as soon as time is cyclical-

Matthew McConaughey 15:50 Right

Jay Shetty 15:50 ... well, then it's just repeating itself.

Matthew McConaughey 15:52 Revolution, yeah.

Jay Shetty 15:52 So that concept-

Matthew McConaughey 15:54 Yeah

Jay Shetty 15:54 ... transforms how you view failure, because failure then becomes a part of a cycle-

Matthew McConaughey 15:59 Yeah

Jay Shetty 15:59 ... whereas failure in a linear journey is bad-

Matthew McConaughey 16:02 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah

Jay Shetty 16:03 ... because it means I'm going backwards and someone else is-

Matthew McConaughey 16:05 Is success in the same way in the Western world, Western world vertical? As in, oh, two steps up the ladder, failure, oh, you step back down the ring, whereas in the Eastern philosophy it's not necessarily so vertical? Quantity?

Jay Shetty 16:19 Yeah. I would say-

Matthew McConaughey 16:20 Is it-

Jay Shetty 16:20 ... it's, I would say if the Western is outwards and upwards, then the

Jay Shetty 16:25 Eastern is inwards.

Matthew McConaughey 16:27 Okay. Yeah.

Jay Shetty 16:27 And so the inner journey, for example, the quest to understand outer space would not be as interesting as the inner sky.

Matthew McConaughey 16:37 Heard.

Jay Shetty 16:37 The inner sky would be more of a-

Matthew McConaughey 16:39 Heard

Jay Shetty 16:39 ... magnetic pull to understand.

Matthew McConaughey 16:41 Heard.

Jay Shetty 16:42 If that m- helps, makes sense.

Matthew McConaughey 16:43 Yes, it does.

Jay Shetty 16:44 Yeah, yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 16:45 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 16:45 Yeah. And so these little mindsets, I feel, it's, it's what you said earlier, you change your language about midlife crisis to midli- of- life opportunity.

Matthew McConaughey 16:53 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 16:54 That language shift i, is revolutionary for the mind.

Matthew McConaughey 16:59 It's, it's wild, isn't it? The vernacular, the prescription's definition or just a word. I had the wo- I had, I've had the hardest time for 40 years dealing with the word humility. Come on. Gotta be humble, Matthew, gotta be humble. We gotta be more humble. My shoulders would start to cave.

Jay Shetty 17:25 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 17:25 My head would start to go down. I was pas- I became passive. Would lose... I, I had the moment where it was my turn a- and I, and I didn't take the opportunity. I had a false sense of modesty, of, "No, no, no, you, you, you go." Or it's a, that, that person that's, that, that, that's at the, um, in front of you at the stop sign.

Jay Shetty 17:44 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 17:45 That says, "No, you can go," and now it's your turn, they go, "No, you can go." It's like, "No, it's your turn to go." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 17:50 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 17:50 It's like, don't sit there and keep telling every single... That's a false modesty.

Jay Shetty 17:54 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 17:54 It's like, there's very, [laughs] they went, now you can go. Don't let them all go through or I'm gonna start honking the horn, you know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 18:00 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 18:01 Until I heard, um, a definition that was, humility is admitting you have more to learn. And as soon as I heard that, I went, "Oh. Oh, I'm in. I purchase." I, my, now my, my chin's up, my heart's high, my shoulders are back, and I admit I've got a lot more to learn, but now I've got the confidence to move forward. And I didn't get that click. It was just a definitionVulnerability is another word that kind of has a mingling definition-

Jay Shetty 18:31 Mm-hmm

Matthew McConaughey 18:31 ... that some people are hard to take it. Eh. Or, you know, sentimentality.

Jay Shetty 18:35 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 18:36 It's different between sentiment and sentimentality.

Jay Shetty 18:39 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 18:39 And we all wanna be humble, but nobody wants to be humiliated.

Jay Shetty 18:43 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 18:43 Well, aren't they of the same word?

Jay Shetty 18:45 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 18:45 You know, I mean, yeah, one little flick of a definition. We found... You know what? Camila and I, when we went to DC with the gun control after the shooting, we said instead of calling it gun control, and we're talking to especially some people on the far right, the word they love, which is true, not control. Nobody wants to mandate, but if we call it gun responsibility-

Jay Shetty 19:10 Mm

Matthew McConaughey 19:11 ... oh, oh, they're raising their hand. Go, "I'm all for responsibility. What do you mean?"

Jay Shetty 19:15 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 19:16 But the word control, they're, "Uh-uh. I'm not even... I'm not listening to another, another word."

Jay Shetty 19:20 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 19:20 "Control is what I don't want." [laughs]

Jay Shetty 19:22 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 19:22 But you say call it responsibility. "Oh, now I'll talk to you."

Jay Shetty 19:25 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 19:26 It's amazing how-

Jay Shetty 19:27 Yeah, it's amazing

Matthew McConaughey 19:27 ... a word sometimes... And you don't know what someone else's definition is. They may have a completely different definition of that by how they grew up, what they experienced, what their parents taught them, what school, how th- how that word, what that gave them in their life when they thought they were acting that way-

Jay Shetty 19:43 Yeah, yeah

Matthew McConaughey 19:44 ... or living that way.

Jay Shetty 19:45 It's so true. It's so true.

Matthew McConaughey 19:46 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 19:46 And that's such a great example with humility. I- my favorite definition that I learned about humility was always being honest with yourself, and so it's like-

Matthew McConaughey 19:54 Yeah. Yeah, yeah

Jay Shetty 19:54 ... humility is being honest with yourself. So I'm good at this, and I'm not so good at this.

Matthew McConaughey 19:59 There you go. Yeah.

Jay Shetty 19:59 I'm, I'm great at this, and I can be confident about it, and nah, this needs a bit of work, you know? And so-

Matthew McConaughey 20:04 Right

Jay Shetty 20:05 ... if I can be honest with myself, then that's humility because-

Matthew McConaughey 20:07 There you go

Jay Shetty 20:07 ... I'm accepting that there's more I need to learn-

Matthew McConaughey 20:10 Yeah

Jay Shetty 20:11 ... but there is something that I have to offer.

Matthew McConaughey 20:12 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 20:13 And-

Matthew McConaughey 20:13 It's ... I, I love the word... You know, I love to be certain.

Jay Shetty 20:17 Yes.

Matthew McConaughey 20:17 Sometimes I mistake mys- I love to be... I, I'm a big fan of the word selfish. I mean, I'm still into redefining this.

Jay Shetty 20:24 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 20:25 And my pastor told me, "Matthew McConaughey, you are pushing a large square rock up a very steep hill."

Jay Shetty 20:30 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 20:31 But, you know, even biblically speaking, do unto others as you would have them do unto-

Jay Shetty 20:35 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 20:35 ... you.

Jay Shetty 20:36 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 20:37 Love your neighbor as you

Matthew McConaughey 20:39 love yourself. That's the self- That seems to me purely selfish. I believe, seems to me that real religion is extremely selfish. Living away now, if we believe that you will, whether it's karma-wise in life or whether it's life after this life, that you will be rewarded later.

Jay Shetty 21:00 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 21:00 That projection, that delayed gratification, sacrifices, and consequences we make. Maybe it's one we make now to give our children a better life two decades from now. Isn't that the most selfish? Isn't that more selfish than doing only for I at the sake of my neighbor or my loved one's future? Seems to me that's-

Jay Shetty 21:18 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 21:18 And maybe I'm using the wrong, maybe I'm using the, the wrong word-

Jay Shetty 21:21 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 21:21 ... I'm told sometimes, but I'm sticking with it.

Jay Shetty 21:24 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 21:24 Um, yeah, but, you know, the, the, the, the certainty. I like to know. I wanna be in the know.

Jay Shetty 21:31 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 21:32 I also wanna damn well be in the know about what I don't know.

Jay Shetty 21:35 Yeah. [laughs] Is that e- is that even possible?

Matthew McConaughey 21:38 And that's, that, that's part of that humility.

Jay Shetty 21:39 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 21:39 Is what I mean, like, I, I, I mean, you know, they say don't take yourself serious. No, take yourself real seriously.

Jay Shetty 21:44 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 21:45 And also take sense of humor seriously.

Jay Shetty 21:48 Yes. Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 21:48 And also take comedy very seriously.

Jay Shetty 21:51 Yeah. Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 21:52 Take guffaws very seriously.

Jay Shetty 21:54 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 21:55 They happen.

Jay Shetty 21:55 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 21:56 You know?

Jay Shetty 21:56 Yeah. I loved your... You just referenced it. You were talking about karma. I loved your redefinition of how karma works. So in the book, you write-

Matthew McConaughey 22:06 Mm

Jay Shetty 22:06 ... when you don't do good to others, it's guaranteed basically that they won't do good to you. But if you do good to others, that's-

Matthew McConaughey 22:15 It's not a guarantee

Jay Shetty 22:15 ... it's not a guarantee that they'll still-

Matthew McConaughey 22:17 That they'll do good to you, but-

Jay Shetty 22:18 The universe will respond.

Matthew McConaughey 22:20 Yeah. Yeah.

Jay Shetty 22:20 Along those lines.

Matthew McConaughey 22:21 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 22:21 And I'm doing it from memory. That's right.

Matthew McConaughey 22:23 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jay Shetty 22:23 But talking about redefinitions, it stayed with me because I thought you've just pierced the veil of our false understanding with karma, which is if I do good to people, they do good to me.

Matthew McConaughey 22:36 Right.

Jay Shetty 22:36 And if I do it to bad people, they do bad to me. So I'm expecting that when I do good to you-

Matthew McConaughey 22:40 Quid pro quo

Jay Shetty 22:41 ... you'll do good to me, and we all know that doesn't work like that.

Matthew McConaughey 22:44 No. No.

Jay Shetty 22:45 And I thought, wow, this really pierces the point because now I can still choose to be good to others knowing that good comes to me in other ways.

Matthew McConaughey 22:55 Right.

Jay Shetty 22:55 But I don't have to find it through that person.

Matthew McConaughey 22:57 And can you, can you, can we trust that?

Jay Shetty 23:00 Can we trust that?

Matthew McConaughey 23:00 Unconditionally for ourselves.

Jay Shetty 23:04 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 23:05 Again, that goes back to selfish for me. For ourself. Again, the projection, it seems like delayed gratification, the thing that we really try to teach our children is what we

Matthew McConaughey 23:15 still have the most to learn about as adults. What are the consequences? Can we believe more in the consequences of our choices today? Can we have more trust and belief in, you know, that what I... the choice I make today, if I make the better choice, it's going to reap rewards on others, including myself, down the line.

Jay Shetty 23:44 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 23:45 But we don't like to think past now. If you're successful and you're fluent in life, you have the, the, the luxury of thinking, of, of long-term thinking.

Jay Shetty 23:56 Yes.

Matthew McConaughey 23:57 Some people in misery, which this would be fun to talk about. Some of the misery, they're in, "Delayed gratification, my ass. What you talking about? I'm trying to, I'm hoping, I'm trying to get something tonight. I hope I can wake up tomorrow morning and put some food on the table."

Jay Shetty 24:11 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 24:11 Is it a luxurious thing to talk about delayed gratification? Is it, is it a luxurious thing to talk about making sacrifices-

Jay Shetty 24:19 Mm

Matthew McConaughey 24:19 ... and doing what's well for yourself, but also well for the most amount of others? Is that a luxury-

Jay Shetty 24:24 Mm

Matthew McConaughey 24:24 ... to someone in misery? 'Cause they sure as hell have a hard time understanding it, and I'm with you going, "I understand."You want me to talk about what we can do peace in the world, and you're trying to pay your rent? You're going, [laughs] "I don't, I don't wanna hear about that."

Jay Shetty 24:38 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 24:39 "I'm-- I've got a household here. I got two bedrooms. I got five kids. I just got fired, and you wanna talk to me about what the best idea would be for the most amount of people? Right here."

Jay Shetty 24:50 Yeah, yeah. [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 24:51 Uh, you know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 24:52 I, I don't... Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 24:52 I understand that.

Jay Shetty 24:53 Yes, absolutely.

Matthew McConaughey 24:54 Um-

Jay Shetty 24:54 I fully agree. And then what do you do about that then? So you-

Matthew McConaughey 24:57 Yeah

Jay Shetty 24:57 ... understand it, but ...

Matthew McConaughey 25:00 Well, I tssh, I try to be humble with it and go, "You can't just, you know, speak trying," I come across as speaking from on high.

Jay Shetty 25:14 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 25:14 I think, you know, you talk about someone in, in a position who's lost or in pain. Again, you talk to them about projection and projecting further in life. They're like, "Psh, what are you talking about?"

Jay Shetty 25:28 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 25:29 But to those people, and when I myself have been there and trying to ... and confused and frustrated and don't have the luxury or the bandwidth to think that far ahead-

Jay Shetty 25:41 Mm

Matthew McConaughey 25:41 ... and try to go, "What? All right, so what's the next best,

Matthew McConaughey 25:47 right decision? What's..." And you don't know what that is.

Jay Shetty 25:50 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 25:50 "Well, I don't know. That's the, one of the problems." All right, what are you, what are you most faithful to? Do that one. Just one. Let's just go one in a row.

Jay Shetty 26:01 Yeah, yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 26:01 We ain't thinking about and if, then. No, just, just do one in a row. [laughs] You know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 26:07 Yeah, yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 26:07 And just start with one and, and, and, and just stop there. I remember being down in, uh, after Katrina, um, we were in Gulf, in, in Mississippi. And, um, we were on these property where all these houses were wiped out, and we were in this one place, and there was this lady's house, was just a slate of cement with some rubbish and stuff. It had been completely knocked down. And she came back, and she was about 80 years old, and she was still in her nightgown, and she'd, she saw it for the first time, and she was just like, [gasps] "Oh." And we asked her, "What are you looking for?" And she goes, "Well, I, I just wanna ho- find a picture, maybe in a scrapbook, so my grandchildren can say I don't live here, but that's, that will, that will help me." And, and then I was sitting there talking to her, and I was like, "What are you feeling right now?" She goes, "I just, I just ... Can you tell me where to put my right foot if I take a step?"

Jay Shetty 26:59 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 27:00 "I just need-

Jay Shetty 27:01 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 27:02 ... is it solid? Is it gonna cave? Am I gonna trip? Can you just tell me? I don't even wanna look right now. We... Can I trust you to tell me that this, if I step this way, one step, my foot will be solid and flat-

Jay Shetty 27:15 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 27:15 ... and I won't slip, and it won't be danger. I won't step on a piece of glass. I'm not, it's not gonna..." And that's just wanted one step. That's a person in misery going, "Just show me one solid step. I don't wanna know what's going on. No, I don't... Not, not what's happening in an hour, not what's happening in 30 minutes. Just give me one solid step."

Jay Shetty 27:37 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 27:39 That seems to be a, a place to start for someone in misery-

Jay Shetty 27:44 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 27:45 ... that's, uh, doesn't have the ability to project or is so confused, and you feel you, you... it, it's got too much coming down on you, too much pain to think down the, down the line. And then if you do that once, then you reset, and you bring up the same question. All right, what's the next one step?

Jay Shetty 28:03 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 28:04 If one in a row over and over-

Jay Shetty 28:06 Mm-hmm

Matthew McConaughey 28:06 ... instead of, oh, I'm gonna put a string together. No. Do one in a row over and over and look up, and maybe you can go, "Look at that."

Jay Shetty 28:12 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 28:13 10 in a row.

Jay Shetty 28:13 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 28:14 We got somewhere.

Jay Shetty 28:15 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 28:16 But that's easier said than done, you know?

Jay Shetty 28:19 No, I, I-

Matthew McConaughey 28:19 What do you think?

Jay Shetty 28:20 I... No, I, I love that. I, I think you hit the nail on the head. It's, it's how we teach children to take one step at a time. It's how we build new habits as people. We do one day at a time.

Matthew McConaughey 28:31 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 28:32 I think as soon as we start thinking, it's why New Year's resolutions fail. It's why these big claims of I'm gonna do this for the rest of my life, or I'm gonna do this for the rest of the year, why people struggle with vows and commitments or whatever it may be. It's because you're making this long-term decision based on small amounts of information, and you're spot on that I think it's not compassionate to challenge someone beyond that one step, that footing-

Matthew McConaughey 28:57 Right

Jay Shetty 28:58 ... that, that they just... I, I love that answer. I think it's, I think it's, I think it's the most empathetic, compassionate, and loving thing you can do, is to teach someone how to take the next step-

Matthew McConaughey 29:06 Right

Jay Shetty 29:07 ... without any pressure to climb the whole mountain.

Matthew McConaughey 29:10 So what then would you say is the balance between keeping the big picture in mind but taking one step at a time?

Jay Shetty 29:21 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 29:22 The urge, the will, the incentive, the, the, the, the being to go, "No, I'm chasing my transcendent self. I'm trying to be more God-like," whatever that is.

Jay Shetty 29:35 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 29:36 Which is a big, big picture.

Jay Shetty 29:38 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 29:39 I'm trying, living as if I want to get to heaven or whatever. I wanna act in a way that I have good com- Those are big ideas.

Jay Shetty 29:47 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 29:48 So how do you... What's the, what's, in your mind, what's the dance between that and yes, but put your head down one step at a time?

Jay Shetty 29:58 As you're saying that, I'm reminded of a beautiful line in scripture. This comes from the Bhagavad Gita, the Eastern text. And the text is not a rule book or a principle book. It's based on a battlefield, and the character is the greatest archer of his time, and he's having a crisis of faith. And the bow's slipping from his hands. He's gonna have to fight his family, who are the bad side, and he's the good side, and he doesn't feel capable of taking the lives of people that he grew up with. And that's, that's the scene. And he's talking to God, who happens to be his charioteer-So God's actually riding his chariot, and he pauses in between the two armies, and they have this dialogue, which is 700 verses, 45 minutes long in time, and

Jay Shetty 30:49 God's number one instruction is, "Think of me and fight."

Matthew McConaughey 30:53 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 30:53 And so, yeah, it's like, "Think of me and fight."

Matthew McConaughey 30:56 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jay Shetty 30:56 So it's like, it's like, "I want you to think of me-

Matthew McConaughey 30:58 Yeah

Jay Shetty 30:58 ... and then do your duty-

Matthew McConaughey 30:59 Yeah

Jay Shetty 31:00 ... and take that step."

Matthew McConaughey 31:01 Right.

Jay Shetty 31:01 And so, you know, talking about-

Matthew McConaughey 31:03 Right

Jay Shetty 31:03 ... what you're saying, it's like this paradox where-

Matthew McConaughey 31:05 Yeah

Jay Shetty 31:05 ... we think we have to choose, but actually-

Matthew McConaughey 31:07 Yeah

Jay Shetty 31:07 ... the instruction in and-

Matthew McConaughey 31:08 Yeah

Jay Shetty 31:08 ... of itself, he repeats that twice, God repeats that twice in the text. It's like, "Think of me and fight."

Matthew McConaughey 31:13 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 31:14 So think of me and do your duty.

Matthew McConaughey 31:15 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 31:15 Think of me and take the step.

Matthew McConaughey 31:16 Yeah. Like it.

Jay Shetty 31:16 Be- because if you think of me and take the step-

Matthew McConaughey 31:19 Yeah

Jay Shetty 31:20 ... you'll have faith and trust, but you'll also feel-

Matthew McConaughey 31:22 Yeah

Jay Shetty 31:22 ... your action and the confidence.

Matthew McConaughey 31:23 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 31:23 But if you only think of me-

Matthew McConaughey 31:25 Yeah

Jay Shetty 31:25 ... and you just sit there-

Matthew McConaughey 31:26 Right

Jay Shetty 31:26 ... that's not gonna work.

Matthew McConaughey 31:27 Yeah. Let, like, like, let's, let's explore those two extremes that, where we, where we don't get it.

Jay Shetty 31:32 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 31:32 One are the fatalist.

Jay Shetty 31:34 Yes.

Matthew McConaughey 31:35 The I dunno if, inshallah.

Jay Shetty 31:37 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 31:38 Wait a minute. [laughs] We gotta have our hands on wheel.

Jay Shetty 31:40 Yes.

Matthew McConaughey 31:40 You know what I mean? Uh, uh, you know, we, it is our, we have our freedom of choice and, you know, our... So where is it that we go, just rely on fate too much-

Jay Shetty 31:53 Yes

Matthew McConaughey 31:53 ... and where is it we're like, "No, I am fully responsible for everything. The next step is all that matters. Head down" You don't see any horizon.

Jay Shetty 32:01 Exactly.

Matthew McConaughey 32:02 You don't see any. You're not pursuing anything. You're just, you're, you know, not Air Force, Navy, or Marines. You're Army.

Jay Shetty 32:09 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 32:10 You're dealing with the ground only. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 32:11 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 32:11 You know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 32:12 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 32:13 Talk about spa- You know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 32:14 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 32:14 It, it, that, that's the two extremes when it feels like they can be out of balance, but that paradox in the middle s- is what so many of us are seeking-

Jay Shetty 32:21 Yes

Matthew McConaughey 32:22 ... and, and pursue and try to live at, but what are practical ways to f- to, to, to keep that in the, in, in, in the middle where we're feeling both at the same time?

Jay Shetty 32:31 Yeah, yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 32:32 Where we're thinking of God and fi- and fighting.

Jay Shetty 32:34 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 32:34 You know, the old, what's that old Southern adage? The, the old man and the boy walking, and here comes the tornado, and the boy drops on his knees to pray, and he has to get your butt up, boy.

Jay Shetty 32:43 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 32:43 Scared prayer ain't worth the damn right now. We gotta go get shelter.

Jay Shetty 32:46 Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Matthew McConaughey 32:47 You know? And then other times, and I've had my Nietzsche and agnostic years where I was like, "It's all me."

Jay Shetty 32:54 Yes, yes.

Matthew McConaughey 32:54 It is all about my hands on the damn wheel.

Jay Shetty 32:57 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 32:58 Now, I don't regret those, and as a believer, I don't, I didn't feel-

Jay Shetty 33:04 Mm-hmm

Matthew McConaughey 33:04 ... spiritually, God was mad at me for that.

Jay Shetty 33:07 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 33:08 I thought he had a wry smile on his face-

Jay Shetty 33:11 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 33:11 ... where he was like, "Way to get your hands on the wheel. I could use some more of that from some more of y'all."

Jay Shetty 33:17 Yeah. [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 33:18 But at the same time-

Jay Shetty 33:19 Yeah, yeah

Matthew McConaughey 33:19 ... you thought you had it. I thought it was all up to you, huh?

Jay Shetty 33:22 Yeah, yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 33:23 But I, hey, I appreciate the effort.

Jay Shetty 33:25 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 33:25 Uh, but it was-

Jay Shetty 33:26 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 33:26 ... it was a, it was a... I remember the feeling of appreciation, and I needed it at the time because I was giving myself too much-

Jay Shetty 33:32 Yes

Matthew McConaughey 33:32 ... amnesty in places, and I was get- my chassis was a little loose on the edges, and I was like, "Look, you gotta [sniffs] look in the mirror, McConaughey. Grab the damn wheel, man."

Jay Shetty 33:41 Yeah, yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 33:41 You couldn't, like, just let it, let it all slide on fate.

Jay Shetty 33:44 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 33:44 You know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 33:45 Yes, yes, absolutely. It's... U-I think there's a reason why so many spiritual and faith traditions, you, you went to church on Sunday or a temple or whatever. It's like that was the day where you were fully dedicated-

Matthew McConaughey 33:54 Yeah

Jay Shetty 33:55 ... in faith, aligned in trust, and then you went and worked six days.

Matthew McConaughey 33:57 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 33:58 And you carried that with you.

Matthew McConaughey 33:59 Right.

Jay Shetty 33:59 And, and you tried to practice it as a reminder, but then you went back.

Matthew McConaughey 34:02 Right.

Jay Shetty 34:02 And then you got reminded, and then-

Matthew McConaughey 34:04 Man

Jay Shetty 34:04 ... you did six days of yourself.

Matthew McConaughey 34:05 By about Thursday evening-

Jay Shetty 34:06 You know? [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 34:07 ... you were like, "I need Sunday to come."

Jay Shetty 34:08 Yeah, exactly.

Matthew McConaughey 34:09 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 34:09 And I feel like that's where that, that third space has been lost.

Matthew McConaughey 34:13 Mm.

Jay Shetty 34:13 It's like, you know, 100 years ago, third space theory, we had three spaces. We had church, work, and, and home, and then fast-forward, as time went on, you had work and home, and then fast-forward after the pandemic, and you just have home.

Matthew McConaughey 34:27 Right.

Jay Shetty 34:28 And they all had a purpose. It was like church or temple or community or whatever it was, it was a place that gave you the space to look back on your life-

Matthew McConaughey 34:35 Right, right

Jay Shetty 34:35 ... and take a step

Jay Shetty 34:37 back because at home you have to be dad or mom and-

Matthew McConaughey 34:39 It was a physical place

Jay Shetty 34:40 ... it was a physical place-

Matthew McConaughey 34:41 Yeah

Jay Shetty 34:41 ... that gave you space to ask different questions because at work you're just asking, "How do I make more money?"

Matthew McConaughey 34:48 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jay Shetty 34:48 At home you're asking, "How do I be a better mom or dad?"

Matthew McConaughey 34:50 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 34:50 But then what about how do I do all the other th- Where's the space-

Matthew McConaughey 34:54 Yeah, yeah

Jay Shetty 34:54 ... for that question?

Matthew McConaughey 34:56 So in this age where most people, less, they're going to church less, they're going to the temples less-

Jay Shetty 35:05 Mm

Matthew McConaughey 35:06 ... is it possible, do you think, or, or, or how can we improve if you do think it's possible, without the ritual of that third space? Because I understand the concept, man. When I'm, when I feel most spiritually strong, I'm pr- all day is a prayer.

Jay Shetty 35:23 Yes, yes, for sure, yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 35:24 My every interaction-

Jay Shetty 35:25 Yes

Matthew McConaughey 35:26 ... is a give and take and a rhythm of, oh, I didn't have to close my eyes. Now, but that Sunday ritual where I did need to get my heart above my head in humility and bow in humility, um, I saw, I got objective-

Jay Shetty 35:44 Mm-hmm

Matthew McConaughey 35:45 ... and saw myself from an eye in the sky and was like, "Oh, are you doing... You need, do you, you're not, you're not quite doing... Or you could do this thing that you think you're doing a little more truly."

Jay Shetty 35:55 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 35:55 You could have been more benevolent in that. Oh, that was ... But I, I needed that but, but then a lot of times, I mean, without the ritual, and so many people now go, "I'm not religious, I'm spiritual."

Jay Shetty 36:07 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 36:08 "I'm not religious, I'm spiritual." I think there's people that are a lot more religious than they think they are.

Jay Shetty 36:14 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 36:15 I think they're, a lot of that is that term that's coming from what mankind has done with religion, which, uh, in the Bible, Jesus fought against, was like, "Ah, that's not what I'm talking about, guys. [laughs] This is not, it's not, it's not, it's not, religion isn't, isn't a capitalist thing. It's not a materialist." But what we've done with it that I think a lot of people are fighting against.

Jay Shetty 36:36 Absolutely.

Matthew McConaughey 36:36 But religion-

Jay Shetty 36:37 Which in fairness, yeah

Matthew McConaughey 36:38 ... the word-Means from re-ligare, the Latin root. Ligare means to bind together, and re means again. So a lot of people that I hear saying, "I'm spiritual and I'm for unity," I'm like going, [claps] "That's religion!"

Jay Shetty 36:51 [laughs] Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 36:53 To bind together again, that's to unify.

Jay Shetty 36:56 Yeah. But going back to our earlier thought, language is limiting, and once a word-

Matthew McConaughey 37:00 Yeah

Jay Shetty 37:00 ... is scarred and wounded with-

Matthew McConaughey 37:02 Yeah

Jay Shetty 37:03 ... battle wounds of the past, it becomes less prominent today.

Matthew McConaughey 37:07 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 37:07 Because we-

Matthew McConaughey 37:07 See, I'm a, I'm a prescriptionist.

Jay Shetty 37:09 Yeah, yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 37:09 I keep going back, like let's not-

Jay Shetty 37:11 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 37:11 ... I'm not ready to give up on original-

Jay Shetty 37:14 Yes

Matthew McConaughey 37:14 ... definitions so quickly.

Jay Shetty 37:16 Yes.

Matthew McConaughey 37:16 And I can get... Sometimes I'm pushing that square rock up the hill.

Jay Shetty 37:20 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 37:21 Other times, you just go, "Adapt." Don't, don't wanna be caught as a dinosaur, right? So how do we... Again, where do we hold on to-

Jay Shetty 37:29 Yes

Matthew McConaughey 37:29 ... time and tested truths, spiritual ones in this sense-

Jay Shetty 37:33 Yes

Matthew McConaughey 37:33 ... and still say, "No, but let's adapt and evolve." People move around in society differently now. Maybe we don't need the third space on a Sunday, but we take the time every day to meditate, to pray, and church is where you are. It's in nature. That's where I find my ch- Are those... Are, you think these are good supplements? Or, or-

Jay Shetty 37:52 What do you think? I, I wanna know what you think.

Matthew McConaughey 37:55 Uh, I'd like to say they are, but I'm not sure we're that evolved. I still think we need and want the responsibility, the hand, the hold, the, "Oh, this is the day. This is the place. This is where I go. This is what we do." I try to short sheet that bed all the time myself, but I know better, and I've never followed through on go forward with the ritual. Go. I've never followed through on it and come away going, "Eh, six or half d-..." I'm always like, "Yep, yep, gotta keep doing that, man." And I'm trying to, trying to do that more as a father and, you know, head of the family, and I'm not doing the best job of it. And I'm understanding this thing about, yeah, it's where we are. It's how we think. It's how we're gracious. It's how we're, how we're thankful. And before meals, we talk about our day, or we talk about philosophy or stoicism. And I'm like, yeah, these are some of the same thi- But are they? I'm kinda making an excuse, I think, 'cause philosophy's different than religion, although my favorite parts of what I've studied as religion is the stuff I can go, "Oh, I can take that into the week."

Jay Shetty 39:06 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 39:06 "Oh, I can use that practically."

Jay Shetty 39:08 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 39:08 And I still have trouble with burning bushes and parted seas [laughs] and stuff like that. But that may be a failure of my own true faith. That's ba- That, that seems to be maybe that's my own pride.

Jay Shetty 39:23 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 39:24 Or my own pragmatism, or my own belief in philosophy and the way we live life, which I'm in- eternally interested in. But I'm, I don't believe I'm going far enough.

Jay Shetty 39:37 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 39:37 I think I'm short sheeting myself. I think I've, there's a gap there, and I do... I think God's going, "Eh, I appreciate you trying, but you hadn't-

Jay Shetty 39:44 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 39:45 ... you got too much pride. You're not going far enough yet. You haven't fully surrendered to the faith-

Jay Shetty 39:49 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 39:49 ... to belief and faith." That's my... And I think you do need that.

Jay Shetty 39:52 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 39:52 My hu- my hunch is [claps] I don't care how tired you are Sunday morning. You n- That's, that's where you should and oughta, and you know it-

Jay Shetty 40:01 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 40:01 ... go, for that reason.

Jay Shetty 40:03 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 40:04 So that's-

Jay Shetty 40:05 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 40:05 ... my hunch.

Jay Shetty 40:06 Yeah, yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 40:06 Um-

Jay Shetty 40:07 We're, w- we're aligned.

Matthew McConaughey 40:09 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 40:09 I, I, I think that what we have available today are poor conduits of a far greater depth that you get from the physical community, the connection, the communion of a direct message that feels really clear and is from source. Like, there's a, there's a power in that that I've personally experienced too, and I've dabbled in both. By the way, I'm the same. I'm, I'm the same as you. I live in a place where I don't have that community as I've had in other places that I've lived. I, I constantly make excuses and find other ways to justify my, my, uh, practice because I can't fully be at the depth that I'd like to be. And it's... And so I'm doing it too to survive and to stay connected.

Matthew McConaughey 40:54 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 40:55 But there's a difference between surviving and thriving, and I know that when I'm thriving in my practice and my faith, it's when I'm doing it the way it was done. Now, this doesn't... Going back and just to add the caveat, I think we all know it, is that I'm not saying that the way it was done in all ways was done well. I'm saying that the form of connecting, communion, reflecting, connection, that-

Matthew McConaughey 41:15 Yeah

Jay Shetty 41:16 ... you can't substitute that with anything else. But we're living in a world today where we need new tools.

Matthew McConaughey 41:21 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 41:22 And we need things that are more accessible, and people need them and are available to them, and I see them as a beginning of the journey and a bridge, not the destination.

Matthew McConaughey 41:29 Okay.

Jay Shetty 41:29 So I think if we're building a longer bridge, then that's healthy because if someone never starts the journey on the bridge, will they ever make it to the place?

Matthew McConaughey 41:39 What are we building the bridge with?

Jay Shetty 41:40 So, so for example, I-

Matthew McConaughey 41:41 Is it... What's the brick and mortar to stay on? What's the-

Jay Shetty 41:42 I guess what I mean, like if, if people are trying to do their daily meditation, they're trying to... Maybe they're meditating through an app. Maybe they are, uh, trying to work out with an online workout, right?

Matthew McConaughey 41:53 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 41:53 Like, if they were in the gym at a class, maybe that would be a more fun atmosphere for them, right? Uh, maybe people are reading a book about poems and prayers inspired by but not directly from the source, but that's their beginning bridge of their journey-

Matthew McConaughey 42:10 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah

Jay Shetty 42:11 ... to that direction, in their own pace, at their own time, whenever-

Matthew McConaughey 42:14 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Jay Shetty 42:14 ... if and when they wanna go. And I f- I feel like that's what, what you do and what I try and do and what so many do, is we're trying to build bridges, hopefully-

Matthew McConaughey 42:22 Right

Jay Shetty 42:23 ... that are not the home. I think the problem-

Matthew McConaughey 42:25 Right

Jay Shetty 42:25 ... is when the bridge becomes the home.

Matthew McConaughey 42:27 Amen. Yeah.

Jay Shetty 42:28 You don't wanna live on the bridge.

Matthew McConaughey 42:29 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 42:30 Right?

Matthew McConaughey 42:30 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 42:30 I, I can't remember who said it. There's a famous quote that says, um, "The world is like a bridge. Don't build your house on it. Cross over it."

Matthew McConaughey 42:38 Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Jay Shetty 42:39 And that, I don't know who said it, but it's-

Matthew McConaughey 42:40 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

Jay Shetty 42:40 ... that, that idea of-

Matthew McConaughey 42:42 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah

Jay Shetty 42:42 ... I think all of these platforms and apps and tools, they're all bridges.

Matthew McConaughey 42:46 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 42:46 But don't live there.

Matthew McConaughey 42:48 Yeah.Don't live or don't feel that that's home.

Jay Shetty 42:54 That's it, yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 42:55 Yeah. I mean-

Jay Shetty 42:56 That part, yeah

Matthew McConaughey 42:56 ... let me ask you this, though, because, like, in the Bible, it talks about we're all, you know, we're strangers here. We never ... We don't find a home here. Right? In some version, and I may be, uh, um, uh, theologically messing this up, but what I get from it is, you know, but you try your pursuit to try and make heaven on earth, which you will not, because you will never find it here till you get there. That's, that's as good as you can do. But you will always be a stranger. You will always be an immigrant. You will always be looking for a home here on Earth.

Jay Shetty 43:28 Yes.

Matthew McConaughey 43:29 Now, how does that necessarily mean that ... That doesn't mean you're, we're living on a bridge-

Jay Shetty 43:33 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 43:34 ... or does it?

Jay Shetty 43:36 I believe so. I feel like the ... It's like an airport terminal. It just feels like home because we feel like it's a long time, but because it's not eternal, it can't possibly be the destination.

Matthew McConaughey 43:46 Right.

Jay Shetty 43:48 From a, from a religious-

Matthew McConaughey 43:49 Right

Jay Shetty 43:49 ... spiritual sense.

Matthew McConaughey 43:49 But you're trying to make home, or the pursuit of a home-

Jay Shetty 43:53 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 43:53 ... what you see home, trying to br- trying to bring it here.

Jay Shetty 43:56 Yes. Yes.

Matthew McConaughey 43:56 Trying to emulate it as much as possible.

Jay Shetty 43:58 Yes. You're trying to practice.

Matthew McConaughey 43:58 Live in the light of that.

Jay Shetty 44:00 It's like I'm going to France next year, so I'm gonna practice French now.

Matthew McConaughey 44:04 Right.

Jay Shetty 44:05 Like, that, I think, is the, the big picture and-

Matthew McConaughey 44:08 Right

Jay Shetty 44:08 ... the daily step-

Matthew McConaughey 44:09 Yeah

Jay Shetty 44:09 ... at a time. It's like I'm trying to-

Matthew McConaughey 44:12 Yeah

Jay Shetty 44:12 ... I'm trying to aspire to live ... I'm d- I'm gonna move country next year.

Matthew McConaughey 44:16 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 44:16 But I'm gonna practice the rules, the rituals, the, the language-

Matthew McConaughey 44:19 Yeah

Jay Shetty 44:19 ... of that country-

Matthew McConaughey 44:20 Yeah, yeah

Jay Shetty 44:20 ... this year because then I'll be prepared.

Matthew McConaughey 44:23 Which-

Jay Shetty 44:23 So, so I don't not have a great life now. I'm not postponing joy.

Matthew McConaughey 44:27 Right. Right, right.

Jay Shetty 44:27 I'm not postponing happiness or love. I'm practicing that culture that I believe is better for me-

Matthew McConaughey 44:34 Yes

Jay Shetty 44:34 ... now.

Matthew McConaughey 44:34 Yes.

Jay Shetty 44:34 If that makes any sense.

Matthew McConaughey 44:36 Yes. Yes, yes it does.

Jay Shetty 44:36 Yeah. What-

Matthew McConaughey 44:38 Yes

Jay Shetty 44:38 ... what's, what's been ... I feel like you're such a ... I feel like your mind is like you're constantly observing patterns, and observing even, like, languages. We've been talking. What's something that you've observed about humans that fascinates you, that surprises you maybe?

Matthew McConaughey 44:53 [laughs] Um, one, our ability to adapt when there's not another option.

Jay Shetty 45:04 Wow. That's a good one.

Matthew McConaughey 45:06 We're elastic, man. We are elastic. More elastic than I like to practically think. But boy, when we're put to it, I'm amazed at how quickly we can change, adapt, evolve, come to understand the other side. When we're put to it. You give us the option, we, we take the out, man.

Jay Shetty 45:26 [laughs] Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 45:26 And we, we, and we argue, and we ... I'm

Matthew McConaughey 45:29 not, I ain't budging. Nuh-uh. You know what I mean? Um, and then on the flip side of that somewhat is how we seem to find, in this pursuit of the ideal, we seem to sh- almost say, well, that is our home. That is who we are. And then go, okay, so therefore ... And then we d- we sh- our practice is not as evolved as we think it is, but we keep saying ... And, and, and I love the, we can g- tap into the 11th percent of our mind, which we don't tap into. We can be greater. We can transcend. But practically every day, I think there's some great wisdom in going, "We're not as evolved as we think we are. Let's quit acting like we are." I love the pursuit. It's like rehabilitation and justice. I'm for rehabilitation, man. I'm, I, I mean, I, I love the New Testament. You know what I mean? At the same time, we are repeat offending son of a guns over and over and over. [laughs] And if I've done you wrong, and you've allowed me to come to you and ask for forgiveness, the first order on the docket should be me ... If you choose to forgive me, the first order on the docket should be me, from now on, doing anything I can to not have to come apologize to you again. It's not just that you forgave and gave me the chance to be forgiven. I got some sweat equity on my side to quit doing the actions that cause me to have you forgive me, to have me apologize again.

Jay Shetty 47:11 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 47:12 And we don't forget ... We seem to not forget that side. I love kumbaya. This is the ideal place we can go. But I feel like we relax and kind of almost take for granted, thinking we're that evolved, and no, we're not. That's the constant pursuit. We ain't there. So let's deal with the hard math right here. And one thing we can depend on people being is people. Nothing we do is unbelievable. We do stupid shit all the time. We break our own noses 'cause we tripped ourself running downhill.

Jay Shetty 47:44 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 47:44 We s- steal. We're jealous. We covet. We talk blue and vote red. We talk New Testament and act old. We're entrenched in some ideas. Now, go back to that ear- the first half of, of what surprised me about people, um, when I was talking about the adaptive ... Flexibility of adaptation. I remember, I w- it was probably 12 years ago, I was in Alabama. I was doing research for a film down there, uh, um, Free State of Jones. And in Mobile, Alabama, on the docket that night, the next morning, the vote had gone through about whether Alabama was gonna allow gay marriage. And I'm sitting, I'm in Alabama, and I was like, "I don't think that's gonna pass." Deep South Alabama. I mean, it sounds like that's a very progressive idea to them. I wasn't judging it. I'm just saying as an anthropologist and sociologist, I'm like, "Oh." The next morning it passed, 53% to 47%. I was like, wow. I talked to my friends, a lot of them on the left, were abhorred-I can't believe that. Those bigots, only 53%. And I was like, only 53? I thought it was gonna be 80/20 the other way. That was a massive amount... Me talking about meeting people where they are.

Jay Shetty 49:03 Yes, yes, yes.

Matthew McConaughey 49:04 It was a massive flexibility that surprised me, and that was just 12 years ago. So we have to understand where people have come from. I write about it in the book about I wish more crimes were from, uh, ignorance.

Jay Shetty 49:15 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 49:16 And what I mean by that is, if I know the right thing to do, and I know the wrong thing to do, and I still do the wrong crime, shame on me. I knew better. But there's certain crimes we commit daily that someone just goes, "I, I didn't know."

Jay Shetty 49:32 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 49:33 Okay. Now let's talk about some real rehab, 'cause you didn't make the wrong choice. You just didn't know.

Jay Shetty 49:40 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 49:41 Now talk about some amnesty. Yeah. I've got to meet you in a different place, and we have to deal with solving the problem differently than I do with the guy that knew better and did it anyway.

Jay Shetty 49:50 Mm. Yeah. Do we expect too much from people?

Matthew McConaughey 49:57 Practically speaking, [laughs] yes. Yes. I mean, we underwhelm and underserve and undershow a lot, but we all have different expectations of ourselves and, and, and of others. I mean, so again, part of that, hey, just expect it. That old expect the worst, prepare for the best. I don't like that. I like actually expect the absolute best, and when it comes in under that, you know, shoot for the A, make a C is better than shoot for C, make an F. When you... How quickly when you deal with reality and go, "Okay, well, that's a hell of a lot better outcome, and I got more out of you, and you got more out of me than we would've if we'd have come in going like, 'Let's just make a C.'"

Jay Shetty 50:45 Mm. [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 50:45 You know what I mean? We may be... You know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 50:47 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 50:47 We, we went for the perfection, and we came in under it, but it was still pretty doggone good, well done. That's where I'm-- I call it an, an overshow theory.

Jay Shetty 50:58 How do you deal with when someone disappoints you based on your expectation?

Matthew McConaughey 51:06 Um, I'm quicker to say, "Yep, that was reality. That's what they're able to do," whether it's forgiveness or amnesty, whatever you wanna call it, with so- others than I am for myself.

Jay Shetty 51:22 Explain.

Matthew McConaughey 51:24 I expect perfection from myself a lot, and I don't reach it, and I know I can, or I believe I can. That's a better word. I believe I can, and I don't wanna quit believing I can. That's sort of where I find myself in approaching life. Keep going for perfection. Keep finding that reality comes in under that, and you will have climbed more stairs, if we're gonna have a vertical, by the end. You will have had more quality. Your roots will have been deeper and wider inside and out, vertically and to the south, than if you didn't chase that perfection. The challenge for me is when reality comes in and it's served and the bell's rung and there's no more time to take the test, when you see that you didn't make 100 and you made an 88, how quickly can you go, instead of going, "Oh, fu- dude," or how quickly can you go, "All right. 88."

Jay Shetty 52:27 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 52:28 "Not bad."

Jay Shetty 52:30 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 52:31 So again, that pursuit of an ideal-

Jay Shetty 52:33 Mm-hmm

Matthew McConaughey 52:34 ... plus the practical. What's the next-

Jay Shetty 52:36 Yeah, yeah

Matthew McConaughey 52:36 ... ste- solid step?

Jay Shetty 52:38 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 52:38 And I've, I work to become, uh, I work to try and remain as much as I can to feel satisfaction in that reality, but that's the hard part is how quickly can you go from... Like, I've never-- I say this all the time, and I don't like it to be misconstrued. I've never made a film that lived up to my expectations.

Jay Shetty 52:59 Wow.

Matthew McConaughey 52:59 I've never given a performance that lived up to my expectations. I've done films that I think, "It's a lot better than I could've done." And I'm not saying, "Oh, I should've direct..." I'm saying, "Oh, that was a... It's awesome. It's a really great piece of art." Not just, not transcendent. It didn't change the, the world or tap into a piece of humanity that enlightened myself and everyone else on a unanimous level.

Jay Shetty 53:28 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 53:29 That's what I'm going for. But I had never done it. So why, and again, I've worked and with people who have made films I think are, are outstanding and better than they would've been if I would've been the director, for sure. But that's part of, I think, maybe why when I do do good work or make good creations or good art, I think that was part of it, that I was going for-

Jay Shetty 53:57 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm

Matthew McConaughey 53:59 ... ding, the infinite pure spot in space-

Jay Shetty 54:04 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 54:04 ... that was immaculate.

Jay Shetty 54:05 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 54:06 Believing I could achieve perfection, but knowing I couldn't.

Jay Shetty 54:09 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 54:09 But I still like to believe.

Jay Shetty 54:11 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 54:11 I mean, my, my, my favorite word in the world is unanimous.

Jay Shetty 54:14 Mm. What?

Matthew McConaughey 54:18 Ah.

Jay Shetty 54:19 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 54:20 I mean, unanimous. We don't have as many black and whites today, man.

Jay Shetty 54:23 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 54:23 Give me something unanimous that we can all agree on. Maybe it's a, a, a, a value. Maybe it's a, it, it, it, it's a way of making a living. Maybe it's a piece of art. You just unanimously go, "No, that's just, that's great. It's a one of one."

Jay Shetty 54:37 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 54:38 But you seek unanimous. Sammy Davis Jr., "I don't know what success is, but I know what failure is. That's trying to please everybody." You know what I mean? You seek, you ain't gonna get it.

Jay Shetty 54:49 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 54:49 There's no way, but-

Jay Shetty 54:51 You still believe you can

Matthew McConaughey 54:51 ... come on.

Jay Shetty 54:52 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 54:52 Still beli- to keep believing.

Jay Shetty 54:54 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 54:54 It, I don't know. I feel like it keeps me in the chase.

Jay Shetty 54:56 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 54:56 Keeps me in the race.

Jay Shetty 54:57 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 54:58 Keeps me going, ooh.Ooh, almost

Jay Shetty 55:02 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 55:02 Okay, okay. You know?

Jay Shetty 55:03 Yeah, I like that. You have to live like that. Like, there, there's a, there's a joy to live like that, and it, and it's a joy, again, you know, it's been the theme of our discussion today. It's almost like being able to accept both. Like you said, you believe you can, knowing you won't.

Matthew McConaughey 55:18 Right.

Jay Shetty 55:18 And it's that what makes it beautiful because if you only believe you can, then you'll be really disappointed when it doesn't happen.

Matthew McConaughey 55:25 Right.

Jay Shetty 55:25 And if you only know you'll never get there, then, well, you'll never do anything.

Matthew McConaughey 55:29 You won't even try, yeah.

Jay Shetty 55:30 So, so it goes back to that same-

Matthew McConaughey 55:31 That's it

Jay Shetty 55:32 ... yeah, that same piece. So, so on your ranking score, where is Interstellar of your performance? [laughs] Where do you go in Interstellar?

Matthew McConaughey 55:39 Where is it?

Jay Shetty 55:39 Yeah. Where are you? Like, your performance. Like, that's not... To us, it's perfect.

Matthew McConaughey 55:43 Uh.

Jay Shetty 55:43 To you, it's not, so what, what is the ATA?

Matthew McConaughey 55:46 Yeah. No, no, I, I think it's, I think it's very good.

Jay Shetty 55:48 Yeah. Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 55:48 And, and I think, and I think the movie's really good.

Jay Shetty 55:50 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 55:51 I think, I think the character's really good.

Jay Shetty 55:52 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 55:52 I think my performance is really good.

Jay Shetty 55:54 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 55:54 Um, I have appreciation for it, and I know if I'm bogeying or if I'm birdieing.

Jay Shetty 55:59 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 55:59 I know when I'm like-

Jay Shetty 56:00 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 56:00 ... I've seen myself on screen, going, "Oh, you're kind of bullshitting there, McConaughey."

Jay Shetty 56:03 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 56:03 And then I've seen where I'm like, bam, okay. Um, so-

Jay Shetty 56:07 That's still AEA. Like, ni- you know, it's still-

Matthew McConaughey 56:09 Yeah, yeah.

Jay Shetty 56:10 Yeah. [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 56:10 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, but I'm also, as you know from the book, I'm not into extra credit.

Jay Shetty 56:13 No, no, no.

Matthew McConaughey 56:13 I don't like 4.2 GPAs.

Jay Shetty 56:15 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 56:15 That tells me, like, well, what happened? Are we... Then we're not giving the right test to-

Jay Shetty 56:18 No.

Matthew McConaughey 56:18 If four was the pinnacle-

Jay Shetty 56:20 Mm-hmm

Matthew McConaughey 56:20 ... you know?

Jay Shetty 56:22 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 56:22 That means not many people should be getting it, if anybody.

Jay Shetty 56:25 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 56:26 So now we're getting four twos, four fours. That tells me we've over-leveraged the original task.

Jay Shetty 56:32 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 56:32 [chuckles] Or we've added amnesty or too many places to, to not do the, the, have the real competence and merit at the task that you're supposed to give because, especially, I think, in the West, 'cause we want everyone to feel really great, participation trophies, 4.2 GPA. Well, I feel better. All right, if you got the 4.2 GPA, start getting a 3.8 education, the credit, the extra credit it would give is sort of balanced with the debit of the actual, you know, what, what we learn from it sometimes if we give too much extra credit, so.

Jay Shetty 57:05 What, what validation do you pursue?

Matthew McConaughey 57:09 My wives, my children. Um, I have a council in the sky, three people that are extremely important to me in my life, my dad, Penny Allen, and John Chaney, and I see them, wink at them, talk with them, listen to them, seeing, run ideas by them, run decisions by them, and then I look up and see what their reaction is and, and, and, and I... It's been a very trusted council for me. Um, it's sort of my way to give people, practical people, physical bodies and souls that are no longer with us here on earth physically, to put them in a heaven sense, and it's a connection. They're, they're a conduit from God to me.

Jay Shetty 58:01 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 58:02 And I have no expectations of them, and sometimes when I'm so excited, like, "Isn't this great?" I look up and they're not dancing, and I'm like, "Why aren't you dancing?" I got other times where two of them will be dancing and one of them isn't, and I have to go through, oh, why? Is that something they don't understand, or are they the underdog and I need to be listening to them because that's why they're going, "Mm-mm. You know better than that. I, I don't agree with that"? Um, and then sometimes all three of them are. You know? My dad's got a, you know, dancing in his underwear with a Miller Lite and a piece of lemon meringue pie. Penny's up on a chair screaming out loud. My buddy John Chaney just leaning back in his old cotton yellow shorts as you do with his shoulders back going, [laughs] "There you go, bud."

Jay Shetty 58:54 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 58:55 Yeah. So

Matthew McConaughey 58:57 I seek their validation, and that's a conduit through, a practical conduit in my imagination because I don't have a picture in my mind of God. Um, and I don't, I, I don't, I don't think we can or should. I think that minimalizes, um... You know, we have pictures of, of, of physical beings that have walked the earth that we can call prophets and stuff, but of God, I don't have a picture. I don't think it's a, an it. I don't think it's a mister or missus or anything like that. Um, so... And then, I mean, look, inherently, that all brings me back to seeking my own-

Jay Shetty 59:34 Mm-hmm

Matthew McConaughey 59:35 ... my own validation. Um, you know, I try to measure how I counsel and referee myself off of some of the people I just brought up to you.

Jay Shetty 59:45 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 59:45 So that's where I pretty well stick. That's where I pretty... I d- I don't, I don't really look outside that m- much further outside my circumference.

Jay Shetty 59:52 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 59:52 Just because I can't... It's just too fickle.

Jay Shetty 59:57 Yeah, yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 59:58 It's too... I can't really tr- I don't have a trust. Again, that goes to that Sammy Davis Jr. line. If you look around and go, "Does everyone approve?"

Jay Shetty 1:00:06 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:00:07 Uh, it's gonna be, it's gonna, gonna be lonely and hard-

Jay Shetty 1:00:11 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 1:00:11 ... and not necessarily the best for you. You know what I mean? And I know I've pulled some things off my life where I, you know, people thought I changed and made a, "Wow, what a recreation." I'm like, "I'm doing the same thing. You just put it in bold print now."

Jay Shetty 1:00:28 Yeah. [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 1:00:28 "I, I was doing the same thing 15 years ago."

Jay Shetty 1:00:31 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:00:31 You know what I mean? Sometimes we change by staying the same.

Jay Shetty 1:00:34 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:00:34 And then other times, again, as we talked about in the beginning of the conversation, you give yourself time to daydream, you pick out a new tact about how to maybe go about something, a new way of uncovering something, a new way of solving something, a new way of finding satisfaction in a situation, a new way of dealing with a crisis, a new way of, um, dealing with success. You know? Looking at it from a different point of view just to have another, it's almost ammo, ammo, arrow in the quiver.And, uh, in this hunt, uh, is life

Jay Shetty 1:01:04 Yeah. H- how does someone like you who built their career on control grasp the concept of trust?

Matthew McConaughey 1:01:12 I'm a trust first guy. I come here today, whether we had never talked before. I have, I have nothing in my head going into anyone's situation. Wonder if they're trying to get me? Ooh, is he gonna ask a tricky question? Oh, is he trying to play a g- I don't, uh-uh. Because that'll hang me up.

Jay Shetty 1:01:32 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:01:32 I won't be able to freely think and go. Now, at the same time, have I been doing this long enough where before I'm about to say something or as I'm saying it, I can go, "Oh, if you don't finish this sentence right, that's gonna be a headline in a rag bag" or something. You know what I mean? I, I... You know what I mean? "Oh, that's not gonna be the headline you want."

Jay Shetty 1:01:50 Yes, it's-

Matthew McConaughey 1:01:51 I'm conscious enough of that, but I'm a trust first guy, and I've been, and I've been burned.

Matthew McConaughey 1:01:56 And I'm like, I'll, I'll make that bet again. Because I know that I put ... That, that if I put more trust on Howdy, it's gonna do something to you where maybe you aren't the most trustworthy. I've seen people become more trustworthy.

Jay Shetty 1:02:15 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:02:15 I've seen people give more because they go, "Oh, this guy's given me a massive amount of trust."

Jay Shetty 1:02:19 Yeah, yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:02:19 "He just empowered me, dude."

Jay Shetty 1:02:20 Yeah, yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:02:21 "He just gave me ... He saw a dignity in me that I didn't see."

Jay Shetty 1:02:25 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:02:25 "He's given me a license, a privilege, some ch, ch, chutzpah" to go, "Oh, okay." And I believe in that, and I, I see that in people, and it's a bit of that, you know, may what we give from our soul get a like response from others. I believe in that re- re- reciprocity. So I'm a trust first guy. I don't ... The residuals for going through life without trust, oh, shit.

Jay Shetty 1:02:47 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 1:02:48 That sucks.

Jay Shetty 1:02:49 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:02:49 I mean, yeah, I also, you know, I trust myself more now than maybe I used to, and that thing, that's just come from growth and evolution and, and, and, you know. I used to always be a guy who ... And I'm still a guy who ... I don't like drawers. I like my stuff laid out.

Jay Shetty 1:03:07 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:03:07 I wanna see it 'cause if it's in a drawer, I'll forget I even needed it.

Jay Shetty 1:03:11 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 1:03:11 I wanna see it. I was always a guy who's like, "If I'm gonna come in this room, I'll make sure that my keys to the, keys to my, the, the door in the other room on the kitchen table, leave that door cracked." I'm not ... I have more confidence now to go, "You can shut the door. I know where I left the keys. I don't have to look over my shoulder again."

Jay Shetty 1:03:29 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:03:30 I had this spiritually when I went into True Detective. I was in a really strong spiritual place, and that character, my relationship with God at that time was really strong. That character went into some philosophical nihilism and things that are, like, away from [laughs] faith. I was able to go, "I'm locking in and not looking back for five months."

Jay Shetty 1:03:57 Wow. Wow.

Matthew McConaughey 1:03:58 "And I don't need to look over my shoulder 'cause I know when I come out of this, my relationship's good back there."

Jay Shetty 1:04:05 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:04:05 "I don't need to peek over my shoulder to make sure. I don't have a cr- I tr- I tr- I have the trust." Earlier, and many other times in my life, I wouldn't have the trust to go that far 'cause I'm like, "Hang on. Is this okay? Am I about to get struck by lightning here? Is this blasphemous?" You know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 1:04:20 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:04:21 You know, "Are we good?" You know?

Jay Shetty 1:04:23 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:04:23 "Okay, I n- I'm just acting." You, you know what I mean? So I, I had a great amount of trust. I'm strong spiritually then to go, and when I'm, feel stronger spiritually is that, you know, the foundation's strong. You, we can jump higher. We can go further. We can not look over our back as much and trust any, you know ... And when we travel and trust in relationships and, and away from the kids. I'm away from the kids right now. It's been a week. Okay. But we check in. Yeah, does FaceTime help with trust? Yeah, because you get to ... There's more ... There's a phone call. But the idea of, the very simple, natural ideas of going, hey, it's 10:00. I'm, we're on the phone. I'm on one side of the world. You're on the other. But we're both under the same moon. We're both under the same sun. Sun you're under right now just hadn't got to me yet, but it'll be the same one. And the moon that I'm under right now just hadn't got to you, but it's, it's coming. There's a, again, that time.

Jay Shetty 1:05:20 Yes.

Matthew McConaughey 1:05:20 Now we're getting into the cyclical time you talk about-

Jay Shetty 1:05:23 Mm-hmm

Matthew McConaughey 1:05:23 ... and not the linear-

Jay Shetty 1:05:24 Mm-hmm

Matthew McConaughey 1:05:24 ... where we feel like, oh, I'm losing.

Jay Shetty 1:05:26 Yeah. A day.

Matthew McConaughey 1:05:28 No, it's coming around.

Jay Shetty 1:05:29 Yeah. [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 1:05:29 The, it, it, it, it's, it's all balance. There's a trust I get from that.

Jay Shetty 1:05:34 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:05:35 And then another trust I get is if I'm, you know, it's in between that. It's, it, it, ev- it, it all. It means everything means everything, and nothing matters at all.

Jay Shetty 1:05:49 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:05:49 In between there.

Jay Shetty 1:05:50 Yeah. How do you ... Yeah. That-

Matthew McConaughey 1:05:51 So-

Jay Shetty 1:05:51 Like, I love that there.

Matthew McConaughey 1:05:52 So-

Jay Shetty 1:05:52 So how do we live like that?

Matthew McConaughey 1:05:53 So again, trust. If I'm gonna go to the fatalist side of, uh, uh, um, what I do n- doesn't matter. Doesn't ... I'm gonna die, dude. What's it matter? I used to not have the trust to go, oh, but I'm gonna still do every bit of the work-

Jay Shetty 1:06:10 Mm-hmm

Matthew McConaughey 1:06:10 ... to make sure. And that ... I'm, put my hands on the wheel.

Jay Shetty 1:06:13 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:06:14 Right? So to go, oh, it doesn't matter. It's what I'll tell myself if I'm nervous. I'm gonna go give a speech or something. I'm prepared. I busted my tail and broke the sweat to get prepared. I'm full ... Now, if I trust that, and I know I did that, now I need to tell myself, "Dude, [laughs] this doesn't matter."

Jay Shetty 1:06:31 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:06:31 "You're gonna die. What the hell does this matter?" 'Cause I know I'm not gonna go be lazy and unprepared and F off. So now that I trust that I will, uh, that I'm prepared, and I take it very seriously, now I come to the, I like to end it with a, "Well, now [laughs] ..."

Jay Shetty 1:06:50 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:06:50 "None of this matters"-

Jay Shetty 1:06:51 Yeah, yeah

Matthew McConaughey 1:06:52 ... to relax. If I go, you know, too much the other side, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm tight. I'm trying, I'm trying too hard. I'm not, I'm not giving myself the freedom to, to listen and, and, and, and riff and take somebody's answer qui- and go with it. You know what I mean? So-Uh, that's, that's how I try to balance the two.

Jay Shetty 1:07:10 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:07:10 You know? But that took ... But I didn't-

Jay Shetty 1:07:12 That took a-

Matthew McConaughey 1:07:12 20 years ago, if I'd have said, and with some of us, in life, if you tell them, "Dude, none of it matters. It's all fate. It's all gonna ... Inshallah. It's all just gonna happen what's gonna happen," people will just F off.

Jay Shetty 1:07:23 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:07:24 And go like, "Well, it doesn't matter how I treat you, or treat me." And you're like, "No, it does, d- but can you trust that you're not gonna be a tyrant-

Jay Shetty 1:07:33 Yes

Matthew McConaughey 1:07:33 ... when you let yourself off?"

Jay Shetty 1:07:34 Yes.

Matthew McConaughey 1:07:34 You know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 1:07:35 Yeah. Yeah. Well said. Well said. It's that, that balancing act in everything we're talking about. Everything.

Matthew McConaughey 1:07:41 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:07:41 We just keep coming back to that, like, to be able to believe that what I'm about to do is important, and then have the ability to embrace my own insignificance at the same time-

Matthew McConaughey 1:07:51 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:07:51 ... is, is beautiful. Like-

Matthew McConaughey 1:07:53 There's a quote I always remember hearing as a kid is like-

Jay Shetty 1:07:56 Mm

Matthew McConaughey 1:07:56 ... "You're just a, you're, you're, you're this, the smallest grain of sand in the palm of God." And for whatever reason, very early on in my childhood when I heard that, that felt power from that. I didn't feel small. I felt like, "Wow. How cool."

Jay Shetty 1:08:14 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 1:08:14 "How awesome. Yeah." And in that is the idea of, like, it all means something, and none of it matters at all.

Jay Shetty 1:08:23 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:08:24 But it's very easy to look, think of that, uh, that analogy and go, "Oh.

Matthew McConaughey 1:08:28 Well, so it, I don't matter." No. What ... Can that grain of sand in the palm make you go, "Oh, no, I matter more than I thought"?

Jay Shetty 1:08:40 Yeah. And, and it's both.

Matthew McConaughey 1:08:42 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:08:42 And it's both. And it's-

Matthew McConaughey 1:08:44 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:08:44 Yeah, I remember we were on a beach in South India. I was with my, my monk teacher, and we were on a walk, and it was a bunch of young monks with my teacher. And it's a big fishing town. So South India's very known for being a fishing community, and there'd be loads of fish nets with, full of fishes. And then there'd be the few that had fallen out on the, on the beach as we were walking. And whenever we'd walk past one, my teacher would pick it up and put it back in the water. It was still, you know, uh, tossing up and down on the, on the beach. And we were just looking at the whole beach in front of us, and there were, like, hundreds, maybe, I don't know, maybe thousands of fish that had fallen out of the nets that won't go to be cooked in a restaurant but won't make it back to the ocean-

Matthew McConaughey 1:09:22 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:09:23 ... and probably die in between. And he was just, every time we'd walk past, he'd pick one, and we'd be like ... We said to him, we were like, "Uh, we're not gonna be here all day, and there's no chance we're gonna get to all of these." And, and he was like, "Yeah, but to that one fish, that's their whole life."

Matthew McConaughey 1:09:36 Ah.

Jay Shetty 1:09:37 Like, you know, so to you it's like we're not gonna get to 400.

Matthew McConaughey 1:09:40 Yeah. Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:09:40 Because you ... It's, and so it's both. It's like-

Matthew McConaughey 1:09:42 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:09:42 ... our, our work is insignificant.

Matthew McConaughey 1:09:44 Right.

Jay Shetty 1:09:45 But it's significant.

Matthew McConaughey 1:09:46 And, and, and that goes back to that-

Jay Shetty 1:09:48 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 1:09:48 ... that, that, that we can get paralyzed, you know, the, uh, the think globally, act locally is another term of-

Jay Shetty 1:09:54 Yes. Yes, yes

Matthew McConaughey 1:09:55 ... you know what I mean? When you get paralyzed or thinking, "But I can't. It's too much to censor 'em out."

Jay Shetty 1:09:58 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:09:58 No, just do the, do one in a row.

Jay Shetty 1:09:59 Yeah, one at a time. One step.

Matthew McConaughey 1:10:01 Just one, one at a time.

Jay Shetty 1:10:02 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:10:02 And then, you know, the sun sets, and you had to be home by dark, and there's still some fishes flipping. Well, get on home. And you didn't get them all, but you got ... You were in the asset section. Sometimes that, I think, is, is how I deal with maybe letting myself off, trying to figure out a proper balance of forgiveness and saying, "No, the buck stops here."

Jay Shetty 1:10:23 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:10:24 You know? Something, I'm like, "Man, I'm not, I don't feel like I'm, this is magic," or, "This is absolutely beautiful," or, "This is absolutely true," I'll go, "Okay. Not everything in life's gonna be that. But are we in the asset section? Are we in the black, so to speak? Is, is, is the thing you're doing, uh, uh, uh, on, on a proton?" [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:10:45 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 1:10:45 "And not, and not an electron?"

Jay Shetty 1:10:46 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:10:46 Is it ... Yeah, it is.

Jay Shetty 1:10:48 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:10:48 Does it not harm? You know, sometimes, you know, I mean, I do this in, in work. Some scenes are magic. They come to life. You can just know. Some scenes you get in and you're like, "Dude, I'm just connecting the dots."

Jay Shetty 1:10:58 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 1:10:59 "Let's just get out of here without ... You know, I don't have a great truth to tell."

Jay Shetty 1:11:03 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:11:03 "Let me just get out of here without telling a lie."

Jay Shetty 1:11:05 Yeah. Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:11:06 Sometimes I have to let myself off and go, "Not everything's gonna be a wow, magical truth." Sometimes it's just till the soil and don't tell the lie. Don't, don't trip yourself. Don't hit the ball out of bounds.

Jay Shetty 1:11:23 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:11:23 Take one in the, it's in the rough. Yeah, you didn't hit it out of bounds. You're still, you're still playing. Stay in the, just stay in the game on the upside. You know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 1:11:30 Yeah, yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:11:30 Sometimes it's just that.

Jay Shetty 1:11:32 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:11:32 I remember when I had an acting teacher, I did a performance one time, and I was real happy with it, and she came back and she was like, "Not bad, but every single scene, it's like you're trying to hit a Grand Slam. Matthew, sometimes you need to single."

Jay Shetty 1:11:44 Ah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:11:44 "Sometimes you need to take a ball that was not in the strike zone. Sometimes you need to lay down a bunt. Sometimes you need to d-" And I was like, "Oh, that's right." Not everything's a Grand Slam. It's not every single thing matters. If we think ... You know, it's like, if we think every single thing is significant, and everything matters, we'll be ... Nothing will have significance.

Jay Shetty 1:12:07 [laughs] Yeah. Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:12:08 We'll be paralyzed by minutia and details-

Jay Shetty 1:12:12 Mm-hmm

Matthew McConaughey 1:12:12 ... and stats.

Jay Shetty 1:12:13 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:12:13 That will, there will be no baseline to any of it. There will be no song. It'll all be notes.

Jay Shetty 1:12:17 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:12:18 You know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 1:12:19 Yeah. The idea of significance evaporates if everything was significant.

Matthew McConaughey 1:12:22 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:12:23 There is no ... There, there would be nothing that-

Matthew McConaughey 1:12:25 Right

Jay Shetty 1:12:26 ... stands out-

Matthew McConaughey 1:12:26 Gotta have a negative space

Jay Shetty 1:12:28 ... or is rare or, or special. Yeah, it just wouldn't, it wouldn't hold. The idea-

Matthew McConaughey 1:12:30 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:12:30 ... wouldn't hold anymore.

Matthew McConaughey 1:12:31 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:12:32 What's ... The first, when I asked you the question about validation, the first person that came to you, um, at least what you said out loud, was your wife, um, who's here too, and, uh, I was wondering what, what do you feel is the biggest mistake we make about love?

Matthew McConaughey 1:12:49 Biggest mistake we make about love. Ooh, groovy, groovy question.

Jay Shetty 1:12:55 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 1:12:55 Thank you. And she's back there probably listening right now going, "I can't wait to hear this answer."

Jay Shetty 1:13:00 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 1:13:02 I think one of the biggest mistakes that I think I know I could make is taking it for granted.

Jay Shetty 1:13:06 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:13:07 Again, we're s- on the same topic we've been on.You vow to love each other in a, say a, a marriage for instance, and it's through sickness and health until the death, and I love you. My love's not in question. That doesn't mean it doesn't take maintenance. To take it for granted that, oh, that's

Matthew McConaughey 1:13:25 ... We're fine. I take it for granted, oh, we got, you know, yeah, we got the kids, the family, it's all great. To take that for granted sometimes and not do the maintenance, which shouldn't feel like work, but is ... It's, it's, it's conscious. It's, it's, it can take work. It can be a thought and a choice you make to go, that little thing. I'm making my tea. She's not up. I really wanna get to that puzzle for those eight pieces. Ah. I'm gonna make her one, put it in a Yeti, and have it covered so when she gets up, it's ready. A little ps- a little thoughtful, a little thoughtful thing like that. Was that work? No. Is that delayed gratification for the relationship? Yes. [laughs] You know? That's gonna, you know, that, that, that, that, that'd be a nice thing to do for them.

Jay Shetty 1:14:23 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:14:24 If I don't do it, it's not gonna be missed. As a, as a small example.

Jay Shetty 1:14:28 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:14:28 I think another one with love, and you and I touched on it I think before cameras were recording, is the idea that you find the one, and that's the one, and, and, and, and, and wow. W- I, I make ... The male makes them Wonder Woman, and they think we're Superman. Oh, shit. Don't do that to me. And don't let me do that to you. I can't live up to that.

Jay Shetty 1:15:00 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:15:02 You can't live up to that. Back to unanimous and seeking perfection, that's a tough nut to handle when you're like, project that on someone that's unfair to project onto them, and they project it on you, and neither one of you can live up to it. It's the idea of the ... And I, and, and, and, and this is not a popular statement [laughs] with my wife.

Jay Shetty 1:15:23 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 1:15:23 But I think it's, uh, for me, it's true, and I hope maybe, maybe I'm too practical about love. Maybe I'm not romantic enough about it. But I don't see how the honeymoon period lasts forever. I just ... The honeymoon is all on the hope, the possi- We don't know each other as well as we're gonna know each other. It's before we get married and we make the consecration and the covenant of marriage. And now we're getting into some real stuff, and we got real pains and real pleasures and real responsibilities and real fatigue, and real wins together. And we're building, we've expanded, and we've got a family, and oh man, we're bonfi- But that's harder, and it's not ... Honeymoon's only in the, the, the perfection stage. It's only in the up in the air. Wow, the, the, the, the, the youth of it, the beginning, the springtime, the fresh bud. And I love it, but it's, if you try to hold on to that 100 watt bulb to be the light all the time, you're Wonder Woman, I'm Superman. It, it seems to me humanly impractical to live up to it and unfair to each other.

Jay Shetty 1:16:38 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:16:39 There's a preacher down in San Diego, my buddy Mark Norby turned me on to. I'm forgetting his name. But he talks about, "No, no, no. Love's more like a, it's a 30 watt bulb. Dim the light a little bit. It'll last longer. It'll illuminate longer. Not as bright, but it'll last longer, and it's more realistic-

Jay Shetty 1:16:57 Mm

Matthew McConaughey 1:16:57 ... for you and her. It's more human, and it's still lovely." It's always stuck with me as a-

Jay Shetty 1:17:05 Mm

Matthew McConaughey 1:17:05 ... as a, as a-

Jay Shetty 1:17:06 I've never heard that. Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 1:17:07 ... thing. Yeah. You know?

Jay Shetty 1:17:08 It is true. W- which honeymoon period lasts as it is, and things can go deeper and be more powerful and be more profound, but not be the same in that if you just dated someone new for three to six months every year, you'd experience the honeymoon period every year-

Matthew McConaughey 1:17:26 You'd, you'd-

Jay Shetty 1:17:26 ... for the rest of your life

Matthew McConaughey 1:17:27 ... experience the honeymoon.

Jay Shetty 1:17:27 Yeah. You'd just keep doing-

Matthew McConaughey 1:17:28 Peter Pan the honeymoon-

Jay Shetty 1:17:29 Yeah. It keeps ... Yeah, exactly. Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 1:17:29 ... and it's fresh and it's transient.

Jay Shetty 1:17:31 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:17:31 It was all brand new, but it didn't have all four seasons.

Jay Shetty 1:17:34 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:17:34 You didn't get into act two-

Jay Shetty 1:17:35 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 1:17:35 ... where the conflict comes, where somebody's getting sick.

Jay Shetty 1:17:38 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:17:39 Where you didn't get to act three, where you got to land the plane and figure it out and come down and be on your deathbed going, "Love you, too."

Jay Shetty 1:17:50 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:17:51 "Hey, we did, we, we did all right." You know what I mean?

Jay Shetty 1:17:53 Mm-hmm. Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:17:54 I always ... It, it, it's a ... I'd always, in my younger years, I mean, like, what do, what do you think? If there's a God and you see Him, what do you, what do you, what do you think-

Jay Shetty 1:18:02 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 1:18:02 ... He's gonna say to you? And I was always like, "I think He's gonna say thank you." [laughs] And this hit me five years ago. Five years ago, I was like, no. That's a bit arrogant there, pops. What He's probably gonna say, if meeting Him, He's gonna say, "You're welcome."

Jay Shetty 1:18:19 Mm-hmm. Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:18:21 In that is a, a way I'm seeing life more-

Jay Shetty 1:18:30 Mm

Matthew McConaughey 1:18:31 ... now. And to some extent have, ha- have before, but in that is an inherent sort of what are we doing? You know? Is life long? Is it short? Is it hard? Is it easy? I mean, I don't know. It's hard, and some ways it's really long. Some ways, geez, it's really short. And easy sometimes. But yeah. You're welcome. And I can say thank you. Yeah. But I've gotta ... Yeah. We've talked about I'm happy to, I'm happy to ... And I'm not gonna shy away from with still being sensitive to people and musicians that are like, "Pfft. Easy for you to say, McConaughey."I'm not saying you're welcome to me. You know what I mean? I'm not living a life of g- Yeah, I, I, I wanna be open and understand that. At the same time, I'm very happy and level-eyed with, with saying and believing that, um, and having-

Jay Shetty 1:19:29 Mm-hmm

Matthew McConaughey 1:19:29 ... a life where if I meet, yeah, they're, he's, he, she, it's gonna go, "You're welcome."

Jay Shetty 1:19:37 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:19:39 And that leads into that, I wrote it in Greenlights, but I do have a hunch that the world's conspiring to make me happy. [laughs] Again, I may be off my rocker. I may be, that may be a, a conspiracy theory for the upside. I may be delusionally optimistic, and I, I don't care. I, I, I actually believe it. It's the trust first thing.

Jay Shetty 1:20:06 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:20:07 And I actually believe it, and I believe I'm a part of a lot of other people's army that are there conspiring to make them happy.

Jay Shetty 1:20:15 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:20:15 And I believe that I've got a lot of army there going, not consciously, just I gotta believe, I look, I believe, I know, I know I've got a lot of people in my life that believe, know that if I'm around, I'm looking out for 'em.

Jay Shetty 1:20:28 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:20:28 And I have their best interest in mind, whether they know it or not, consciously. And I know I have a lot of people in life, some I know, a lot I know, a lot I don't, that are like, "Looking out for you, McConaughey." And I'm very thankful for that, but I believe that, and it is... Yeah, I know it's true.

Jay Shetty 1:20:46 Do you think we can all build that belief?

Matthew McConaughey 1:20:51 Yes. I do think we can build that belief. Um-

Jay Shetty 1:20:54 That everything's conspiring-

Matthew McConaughey 1:20:55 I don't think we can rely on that belief. I do think we can build that belief. I do think that, well, raising, you know, kiddos, we're going to ACL, kiddos. We're going in backstage. Come on, me and your mom are here. Pass the security guard. Lets us in. Did y'all say thank you? Yeah, we did, or no, I did. Well, go, go, go say thank you. Why? I don't know. Let's think selfishly, bud. Ten years from now, when you're at the concert and your mom and dad ain't here, who got you in backstage to the, to the front of the line? And you're 20 people back in the line, and they're saying, "No more, that's it." There's a chance that security guard may look down and go, "Hey, Levi, come on up. Come on in," because you said thank you. I'm not saying be that way for like, "Oh, then I can get more, I'll get more privileges." To... I'm just saying where you go, how you interact with people at whatever height, in the back kitchen, to the back door, to the alley, to the homeless, to the billionaire, to the pres- how you interact with people. It's re- it, it reve- it re- you're slowly building an army. I, I had this, I tell this e- example when, uh, I was coming home about two years ago, two-lane highway, and it was all parked just on kind of a traffic jam. It was taking, it was moving five miles an hour stop, five miles an hour stop, and there was a lady in a car, in a car here. And we just moved into this new home. Lady in a car here, and everyone's like, [mimics buzzing] you know, get forward as quick as possible. And she was waiting to get into the turn lane. And so I was like, "We're not going anywhere." I slowed down, let her in. Fifteen minutes it takes to get home, I'm noticing I'm right behind this lady. As I approach my house, she pulls in the driveway to the first driveway before I get to my house. I pull in my house. I get out of my car. It's my neighbor. [laughs] I didn't know it was my neighbor.

Jay Shetty 1:22:56 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:22:56 But I'm like, I got somebody inherently watching over my house when I'm not here from now on-

Jay Shetty 1:23:02 Yeah, yeah

Matthew McConaughey 1:23:02 ... because I let her in-

Jay Shetty 1:23:03 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 1:23:03 ... back there.

Jay Shetty 1:23:04 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:23:05 And she goes, "Thank you for letting me in back there. I'll remember that." Did I do that because I'm hoping I can get a neighbor and part of an army that can keep an eye out for me? No. Did I get an army, someone on my side?

Jay Shetty 1:23:22 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:23:22 Yeah?

Jay Shetty 1:23:23 Yeah. The conspiring point too, I think if you, if you believe that everything's conspiring for you to be happy, you just start to notice those moments. And I think noticing is so much more important-

Matthew McConaughey 1:23:36 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:23:37 ... than thinking-

Matthew McConaughey 1:23:38 Right

Jay Shetty 1:23:38 ... because we all think, but we don't always notice.

Matthew McConaughey 1:23:40 Yes.

Jay Shetty 1:23:41 It's like, what do we notice every day? If you notice the security guard who opened the door, if you notice the, you know, the lady who eventually becomes part of your army at home, it's like, what are you noticing? Because you can notice both. Like, I think I could sit here with you, and I'm sure you could tell me two stories. One story of everyone who screwed you over, took advantage of you, exploited you, where the trust first didn't work.

Matthew McConaughey 1:24:05 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:24:05 And I think you're telling me another story today, which you're noticing-

Matthew McConaughey 1:24:09 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:24:09 ... which is you saying, "Oh, yeah."

Matthew McConaughey 1:24:11 Interes- Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:24:12 Does that make sense?

Matthew McConaughey 1:24:12 Yeah, yeah, yeah. So what do

Matthew McConaughey 1:24:14 we, yeah, what do we notice? What are we aware of? What do we give credit to? I think that's part of the athleticism of life, because that doesn't mean I'm not skeptical.

Jay Shetty 1:24:27 Correct.

Matthew McConaughey 1:24:28 It does mean I'm not cynical. It doesn't mean I'm not clever and wise and letting my home be just pillaged and, no, no, no. I got a lot to protect, and I protect it. It doesn't mean I'm foolish with myself or with my things and my life and the family and things I've built. But yeah, what do I, what do, what do, what do we notice? What do we give credit to? And go, "Oh, let's tend that garden. Let's multiply that. Let's get some compound interest on that ROI. Let's make that epidemic." Not the disease, not the wreck, not the harm. I wanna... I talk about it in Poems & Prayers. Make the positives plural.

Jay Shetty 1:25:16 [laughs] Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:25:18 And the negative singular.

Jay Shetty 1:25:19 Yes. Yes.

Matthew McConaughey 1:25:19 And don't talk about the negatives-

Jay Shetty 1:25:21 Amen, yeah

Matthew McConaughey 1:25:22 ... in the present tense.If they happened, talk about them in the past tense. You stop their path to prophecy. That's the noticing thing, and that doesn't mean don't, "Oh, no, I don't see the negative. No, no, no, that's childhood. Hey, Hallmark card. Dream it. You can do it. Positive thinking."

Jay Shetty 1:25:42 Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Matthew McConaughey 1:25:43 You know what I'm talking about. Uh-uh. Yeah, see how far that gets you. [chuckles] You know what I mean? You'll be done unto and the... You know? So we go from innocence to naivete to skepticism, and then if we can hold off there from going off the ledge into that fourth one, which is a disease, cynicism.

Jay Shetty 1:26:01 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:26:03 I'm all for skepticism and noticing the negative, seeing the harm, noticing the disease, but sure like to spend time and notice more and compound the interest on the prevention of those cures or the multiplied factor of the good things that are conspiring to work for us and are just like, "There we go."

Jay Shetty 1:26:26 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:26:26 "That works, not only for me, for you, too."

Jay Shetty 1:26:28 Mm-hmm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:26:29 Make those epidemic. Again, try-

Jay Shetty 1:26:31 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 1:26:31 ... I love flip, flip-

Jay Shetty 1:26:32 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 1:26:32 ... flip the word. Epidemic's always used as just something like, "Oh, no."

Jay Shetty 1:26:35 Yeah, yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:26:35 Just like consequence.

Jay Shetty 1:26:37 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 1:26:37 We all go con- oh, j- not on, not the consequence. Like, no, c- get consequences with everything.

Jay Shetty 1:26:41 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 1:26:42 And the positive side, the pleasure side of consequence is just as valuable as the negative. You gotta-

Jay Shetty 1:26:46 Yeah

Matthew McConaughey 1:26:46 ... you know?

Jay Shetty 1:26:47 Epidemic, selfish, consequence.

Matthew McConaughey 1:26:50 Yeah. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:26:50 Those are the three there-

Matthew McConaughey 1:26:51 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:26:51 ... that you're gonna-

Matthew McConaughey 1:26:52 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:26:53 ... uh, uh, fight for. Matthew, I could talk to you for hours and hours, and I've been so grateful for your time and energy. We, we end every episode with a Final Five, which you did last time, so we've reconstructed them for you. Uh, these questions have to be answered in one sentence, but I'll probably want you to riff, so feel free. Don't-

Matthew McConaughey 1:27:07 Okay

Jay Shetty 1:27:08 ... don't feel any pressure.

Matthew McConaughey 1:27:09 Okay.

Jay Shetty 1:27:09 Uh, could-

Matthew McConaughey 1:27:10 But try to get them out in one sentence. Okay.

Jay Shetty 1:27:11 You can try, but if... But I would like you to... I want you to free flow, but yeah. You're always the best when you're free flowing, so I don't wanna, I don't wanna hamper you.

Matthew McConaughey 1:27:19 Okay.

Jay Shetty 1:27:20 And yeah. Uh, question number one, what do you believe makes a good dad?

Matthew McConaughey 1:27:26 Hmm. Time. Being there. You know, I always say this is... That's what makes a good father. You know? We're sometimes we're under the illusion that if we make the baby,

Matthew McConaughey 1:27:50 we're the father. No, you're not. You may be the, the daddy papa, but it takes time to be a father, to be there for your children, to balance sharing with them what you already know so they can learn a little quicker, and hold them back and letting them fall from that tree limb and bruise their arm on their own because that's how they'll remember it. 'Cause even though you knew, sometimes there's certain heights, I call it, like tree limbs. There's certain... Kids go out on limbs, and if we rush every limb they go out on, I mean, they're on the limb, and they're, they're, they're five years old, and it's, it's five feet above this soft St. Augustine grass. If we rush over there and go, "Get down, get down, get down," they... No, no, no. You're gonna sh- you're gonna stunt their growth, and they're, they have fear of heights. Kids don't, aren't fear, aren't scared of heights until they di- until they fall. All right? Let them go out there. That's a safe fall. May get a bruise. Now, there's certain ones if they're 60 feet up [laughs] and it's a concrete, you might wanna go, "Hey, bud. I was thinking, come on, just take your time and come on over to the trunk and shimmy on that." Maybe get a help and get them down from that. But certain limbs, let them get on the end of it till let them, let them fall. Let them, let them get bruised. Let them... They'll remember that from experience. And so, yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:29:20 I like it. Uh, question number two, what does it mean to be a real man?

Matthew McConaughey 1:29:26 To be a real man? Well, you know, staying on the fatherhood thing, and this is not just the, the only definition, but I'll piggyback off the last question. The only thing I ever knew in life I wanted to be was a father, and it is because m- I remember when I was eight years old, my dad was a big "Yes, sir," and "No, sir," man. So he would introduce me to his friends, right? And I would always, as a eight-year-old, looking up from four, five, six, seven, eight years old, shake their hand. "Yes, sir. Nice to meet you, sir. Nice to meet you." And what hit me at eight years old was that all of those men whose hands I'd shaken to call them sir, they were dads. They were fathers. And in my eight-year-old mind, I went, "Oh, that's how you make it. That's success. Become a father. That's how you become a man. That's how you become a king." So that's not answer across the board, but that's gonna be my answer.

Jay Shetty 1:30:24 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:30:24 I think.

Jay Shetty 1:30:24 I love that. Uh, and I, I'll only do three because of time. Um, last one, what does it mean to be a good friend?

Matthew McConaughey 1:30:33 Hmm. Yeah. A good friend reminds their friend of the, the best in themselves, the truth in themselves, whether it's there to say, [clicks tongue] "Yeah, just like that," when they are the most themselves, or whether it's there to go, "Hey, you know, you got this other way when you... in the situation, you handled it like this, and it was so pure, man, and it, it kinda didn't go that way this time." Ah. So it's saying hard things and helping them kinda renegotiate or showing to them objectively, "Hey, I see who you are. You've shown me who you are, and then when you're you, I'm over here going-And, uh, I take great pleasure in seeing you succeed without me.

Jay Shetty 1:31:36 Wow. Wow, that's powerful.

Matthew McConaughey 1:31:39 A good friend really takes honest and earnest pleasure in seeing their friends succeed w- with- without them.

Jay Shetty 1:31:49 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:31:50 And...

Jay Shetty 1:31:52 We, to end, we got a little note from a good friend of yours-

Matthew McConaughey 1:31:55 Oh

Jay Shetty 1:31:55 ... uh, who sent it in, and I think it'd be better if you read it out loud than me because it's for you. And so I'm gonna hand it to you, and you can, uh, read it out loud for us.

Matthew McConaughey 1:32:04 Oh, what have we got here? I marvel at how you move through this world. Amazing actor, bestselling author, innovative entrepreneur, first-rate father, husband, and son, but more than anything, a brilliant philosopher. And it is that philosophy that pervades everything you do, one that intertwines curiosity with poetry. From the time I met you nearly 30 years ago, I knew you were my brother, and you continue to inspire me to this day. Love you, buddy. Wood. Ah. [laughs] P.S. Miss our cuddle time, me and Camilla, that is.

Jay Shetty 1:32:48 [laughs]

Matthew McConaughey 1:32:51 Perfect.

Jay Shetty 1:32:52 Yeah.

Matthew McConaughey 1:32:52 Ah, thank you, buddy.

Jay Shetty 1:32:54 Uh, thank you.

Matthew McConaughey 1:32:55 He is a great friend. He is a great friend. Boy, he is a good friend to me. I love the way that he loves-

Jay Shetty 1:33:06 Mm

Matthew McConaughey 1:33:06 ... me.

Jay Shetty 1:33:07 Mm.

Matthew McConaughey 1:33:07 It's really, really beautiful to receive.

Jay Shetty 1:33:11 Well, Matthew, thank you for your time, your energy. Uh, whether I'm reading your books, whether I'm in your presence, or whether I'm listening to you, as I said to you before the first time I interviewed you, I listened to your acceptance speech from the Oscars every day for 30 days once upon a time in my life.

Matthew McConaughey 1:33:26 Oh.

Jay Shetty 1:33:26 And there're only two speeches I've done that with. One is Steve Jobs's commencement speech at Stanford, and one is your acceptance speech.

Matthew McConaughey 1:33:33 Oh.

Jay Shetty 1:33:33 I listened to it every day for 30 days, and it, it intern- I find when you do that, it internalizes-

Matthew McConaughey 1:33:38 Yeah, yeah, yeah

Jay Shetty 1:33:39 ... ideas and, um, concepts and energy in a way that you don't get if you don't repeat. So very grateful to you-

Matthew McConaughey 1:33:48 Wow

Jay Shetty 1:33:48 ... for your life, your work, and-

Matthew McConaughey 1:33:49 You're welcome, and thanks for sharing that with me, man.

Jay Shetty 1:33:51 Thank you.

Matthew McConaughey 1:33:51 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:33:52 Thank you so much.

Matthew McConaughey 1:33:52 I had a wonderful time.

Jay Shetty 1:33:53 Appreciate you. If this is the year that you're trying to get creative, you're trying to build more, I need you to listen to this episode with Rick Rubin on how to break into your most creative self, how to use unconventional methods that lead to success, and the secret to genuinely loving what you do. If you're trying to find your passion and your lane, Rick Rubin's episode is the one for you.

Speaker 1:34:17 Just because I like it, that doesn't give it any value. Like, as an artist, if you like it, that's all of the value. That's... The success comes when you say, "I like this enough for other people to see it"