You’ll Never Heal Until You Do THIS (This is Your #1 Block Keeping You STUCK)

Gabrielle Bernstein 0:00 The aspects of ourselves that cause the most drama and most chaos in our life, or the most hated aspects, are actually the parts of us that are working so hard to protect us.

Jay Shetty 0:10 For all of us who may not be familiar with it, what is Internal Family Systems therapy? How does it work, and what's the goal?

Gabrielle Bernstein 0:18 Internal Family Systems therapy, which is also known as IFS, is the therapy that changed my life, and it is a practice of befriending the activated parts of ourselves, the aspects of ourselves that often we might like the least. So the parts of ourselves that can be hypervigilant, or addicted, or extreme in any way, or the belief systems and patterns that hold us back from what we really want. Oftentimes we wanna just shut those parts of ourselves down, right? "Oh, I hate that part of myself," or, "I don't wanna be there again," or, "How did I end up in that situation again?" It's about befriending those parts of ourselves, and healing, and accessing this relationship to these parts, rather than making them bad or, or wrong, but starting to get into relationship with these aspects of ourselves. Because really, Jay, they're just little children inside.

Jay Shetty 1:11 You saying that, I mean, hearing that just now has literally given me goosebumps-

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:15 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:16 ... because it's so profound.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:17 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:18 Because I feel like most of our self-help efforts or most of our self-work efforts as of now are all about never feeling that way again.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:27 Exactly.

Jay Shetty 1:27 So it's like, how do I never, ever feel anxious ever again? How do I completely block out the inner critic? How do I never experience this ever again in my life?

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:39 You're nailing it. Pretty much what happens is, is as young children we have these experiences of trauma with a big T or trauma with a small T. We all have them. It doesn't matter how big or small, we've all had them. Maybe you were bullied on the playground, or maybe you had extreme trauma, like got abuse or a parent that was alcoholic. No matter what that moment in time was as a child, or multiple moments in time, those experiences of feeling terror, or unlovable, or inadequate, not good enough, those were such extreme feelings that we would do whatever it took to protect against them. Just like you said, "I never wanna feel that again." So what we did was we started to build up protection mechanisms, and those protection mechanisms could be, like, controlling, or they could be people-pleasing, or perfectionism, or, or, uh, in my case, control was a big one [laughs] . Or rage or, or then addiction. And these protection mechanisms become these aspects of ourselves that really run the show. They're called protector parts. And so in IFS, the whole intention is to start to get to know these protector parts, soften to them, recognize them, and these protection mechanisms that we've been living with for as long as we can remember, to recognize them as young little children inside who need the care of our inner self, of our higher self. And that's what in IFS is called Self, which is why the book is called Self-Help. And, uh, I mean, I can go on and on about the, the inner workings of Self-Help, which we'll do today, but really my, my intention with this book, Jay, was to democratize, and demystify, and simplify this extraordinary therapy that my friend Dr. Richard Schwartz created. And I, uh, I got... I went on to be trained in the th- in the model, and after doing the therapy for a decade for myself with my own therapist, and then getting

Gabrielle Bernstein 3:29 trained in it, it was very clear to me that I was gonna do what I do, which is translate and simplify. And that's what this is. This, this is a self-help practice based on the principles of IFS.

Jay Shetty 3:40 It's so counterintuitive to what I think-

Gabrielle Bernstein 3:42 It is

Jay Shetty 3:42 ... we've been told for so long, and so it takes a second. But you said something at the start of the interview a few moments ago about how it actually changed your life.

Gabrielle Bernstein 3:50 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 3:51 And what was it that took you and drew you to IFS? How did that come to be in your life, and where were you at in your life when this became something that was relevant for you?

Gabrielle Bernstein 4:01 It was a real accident. I didn't know that it was there. I was, uh, with the same therapist for about seven, eight, seven or eight years, and midway through my therapy, I actually remembered in a dream trauma from my childhood. Extreme trauma, big T trauma. In that journey of undoing that trauma, she began practicing IFS with me. I didn't know that we were doing it. I just was doing the thing that she wanted me to do, and it was actually really hard for me to do at the time because she was wanting me to start to tap into these aspects of myself and start to get to know, get into a relationship with the addict, or the, the anxiety, or the extreme patterns of rage, or the controller, which were all protection mechanisms that had been blocking me from remembering that trauma. And I remember it was about 2020, I was at home, as we all were, and I'm watching this YouTube video with this man, Dr. Richard Schwartz. I just stumbled upon it. And I'm watching this video and I'm like, "This guy's talking about this therapy he created." And as I'm hearing him talk about it, I'm realizing that's the thing I've been doing for all these years with my therapist. And it was so exciting to me, and it was just around the time that I was starting my own podcast, so I reached out to him, and he was one of the third people I had on the show because it was just my mission to uncover as much as I could about this therapy that was really healing me. And then Dick really encouraged me to go on and get the training. And so I was one of the last people to be able to do the facilitator training that isn't a therapist, that isn't a licensed therapist, so it was definitely divinely timed. And I think when you get trained in something, and you know this, when you do the training and you undergo what it would mean to be a facilitator of that work, it starts to get into your system in a way that it, it benefits you even more. I think we borrow the benefits as teachers. We start to experience the work in a different way. It becomes so integrated. And that accelerated my experience of IFS, which then made me realize, you know, I can't just expect that everyone's gonna be able to get to this therapy because they won't be

Gabrielle Bernstein 6:00 able to afford it, or there's not enough therapists out there, or they won't even know that it's there. So I've gotta make it easy and accessible for people to use, and particularly right now.People need resources, and they need tools to access on, on the fly, and we need, we need an inner sense of safety inside

Jay Shetty 6:18 Mm. So where do people start?

Gabrielle Bernstein 6:19 To start, you have to just first recognize that there are parts of yourself that are activated [laughs] To just... You know, if you've ever said something like, uh, "There's a part of me that gets really angry and rageful when my wife does X," or, "A part of me checks out when I'm around my parents," or, "A part of me is really defensive at work when I'm around authority figures," those parts of yourself are not who you are. They're parts of who you are, and they're protection mechanisms. And so having this experience of being the witness without any judgment of these aspects of yourself that may actually be aspects of yourself that you've really judged and really hated for a long time, but being that nonjudgmental witness of these parts of yourself and recognizing, how long has that part been around? And every time you're gonna say, "As long as I can remember," "Since I was a kid," "Since I was five." And then asking yourself, "Okay, well, what is that part really trying to do here?" It's trying to protect you, and so that's the first step, is to recognize that the p- aspects of ourselves that cause the most drama and most chaos in our life, or the most oftentimes, uh, hated aspects, are actually the parts of us that are working so hard to protect us.

Jay Shetty 7:35 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 7:36 And you know, I've been sober now 20 years, 20 years right now, and I can look back at the cocaine addict part at 25 years old and just look at her with so much love and so much compassion and just say, "Thank you for working so hard to keep down these impermissible feelings that I was not ready to face."

Jay Shetty 7:56 Mm. So, so it starts by spotting a pattern-

Gabrielle Bernstein 8:01 Yeah

Jay Shetty 8:01 ... that you see repeated that you don't like about yourself-

Gabrielle Bernstein 8:05 A belief

Jay Shetty 8:06 ... or that you hate about yourself

Gabrielle Bernstein 8:06 Maybe a belief, a pattern, a behavior that you find to be extreme in some way that's causing some issues in your life, or oftentimes the parts of ourselves. And I'll just give a bunch of examples. So for me, [laughs] you've got the controller. We've got the anxiety, the addict. There's, uh, there was a part that I named, called Knives Out. And it was really like, "If you mess with me-

Jay Shetty 8:29 [laughs]

Gabrielle Bernstein 8:29 ... the knives are coming out." And, and she's a really unburdened part. Now that part is doing okay.

Jay Shetty 8:34 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 8:34 But for a long time it was like I could be the greatest person, but if you messed with me, it was just

Gabrielle Bernstein 8:38 like this defensiveness was gonna just come out in such an extreme way. Uh, and even parts of ourselves that might be praised. For example, for years I was just sort of a workaholic, and people would be like, "Wow, Gabby, you write a book a year, and you're doing so much," and you'd be praised for these aspects of yourself. But meanwhile, it was destroying me, and you've known me through that time. You've seen me through those sort of destructive eras of my life where I was just pounding and grinding. I was running. I was protecting against deep feelings that I wasn't ready to face. And so these aspects might not necessarily be perceived as bad, but they're causing and creating chaos nonetheless. And the thing that, that's really important for me about this work is that it's very spiritual work. And as you know, my, all my work p- up to this point has been really grounded in spiritual beliefs and faith, in my own faith and my own truth around my spiritual practice. But what's gorgeous about this is it's really marrying therapeutic processes with a spiritual experience, and I can get to that. That's what self is.

Jay Shetty 9:42 Yeah. Yeah, let's talk about that. I mean, I was going to ask you that. You're saying a lot of these protection mechanisms, they ultimately bury the self. Right?

Gabrielle Bernstein 9:53 They are blocking self.

Jay Shetty 9:54 They're blocking us from self.

Gabrielle Bernstein 9:54 That's right.

Jay Shetty 9:55 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 9:56 Yes. Because there's this beautiful quote, uh, by a IFS practitioner, and I'll just, uh, I'll, I'll share it. It's that, "Self is like the sun behind the clouds, and when the clouds dissipate, the sun begins to emerge naturally." So you've h- Anyone watching has had exper- Anyone listening or watching has had experiences

Gabrielle Bernstein 10:17 of self, those moments when you're just in complete flow, when you're playing pickleball with Lewis, when you're cooking with Radi, when you're in... You're, you're in self right now. You looked me in the eye before this, uh, this show started. You asked me one of the most beautiful questions. I almost started crying before we began. That's your self energy. It's calm. It's courageous. It's curious. It's connected. It's clear, creative, I think I said, and confident. It's these C qualities.

Jay Shetty 10:50 Compassionate, yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 10:51 Compassionate, and the... It's almost an oftentimes very childlike wonder. It's just, just... And, and, and the reason actually I think that you're such an excellent interviewer is because you interview with a lot of self, the curiosity, the connection, clarity. You know, that's also what comes through. That's what people feel even healed in the presence of self. And so that self energy all of us have, but we blocked it. We blocked it with all these protectors.

Jay Shetty 11:15 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 11:16 But the good news is it never left us.

Jay Shetty 11:18 Yeah, and that's what you're saying. We've all had these glimpses-

Gabrielle Bernstein 11:21 Yes

Jay Shetty 11:21 ... of our compassionate self, our creative self-

Gabrielle Bernstein 11:23 Yes

Jay Shetty 11:23 ... our kind self.

Gabrielle Bernstein 11:24 Yes.

Jay Shetty 11:25 And you're so right that all of our triggers block that. Even... I, I was thinking about this, just how... Trying to think of someone I spoke to the other day who you could tell there was this almost fight inside of them-

Gabrielle Bernstein 11:40 Mm

Jay Shetty 11:41 ... where their insecurity about something was unlocking their ego when in reality they wanted to follow their higher self and be compassionate.

Gabrielle Bernstein 11:54 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 11:54 And I think that's what we all go through.

Gabrielle Bernstein 11:56 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 11:57 I think the truth is, Gabby, that, and we can both speak to this, you've done this work for so long now in helping so many millions of people across the world, people are exhausted right now, and doing this work requires a lot of effort and energy and time and courage.How do people bring themselves to actually do this, to unlock their self when it just feels like it's so far blocked, and it's so far removed-

Gabrielle Bernstein 12:24 Hmm

Jay Shetty 12:24 ... and we feel so far away from feeling that creative, compassionate, powerful self that, that we all have and that we all are?

Gabrielle Bernstein 12:33 Well, I think if someone's coming to this with that energy of, "I don't have time for this," or, "This is too much," or... I'd ask that person, "Well, how, how is it all working out for you this way?"

Jay Shetty 12:45 Hmm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 12:46 Because [laughs] we, we think it's hard. We think that, that self-help practices are hard, or spiritual practice is hard. But the truth is is that not having that foundation is much more difficult, and not having that foundation in this critical time. This is a very critical time. If we don't have a faith of our own understanding or a therapeutic or s- or a spiritual or a self-help practice of our own understanding, or a tool of accessing some kind of inner connection to inner wisdom, inspiration, intuition, inner guidance. If we don't have that right now, we're gonna be like a fish out of water. We're gonna be flailing around. We're gonna feel really unstable, really uncertain, really anxious, and really scared. And I think that's most people right now. Anyone watching or listening you to this interview

Gabrielle Bernstein 13:38 is on the track of wanting more, so they've already begun the first step. They would not be following you if they weren't interested in seeking their ability to self-soothe, to self-correct, to feel a sense of safety inside. So they're already 90% of the way there because they're listening. But the practice that I've created, that I've outlined here, is taking this big body of work that does oftentimes feel like a lot, to, to go into therapy every single week, to sit down, to open up to some of [laughs] those deepest, most, most vulnerable parts of ourselves. And so this is really a way to scratch the surface-

Jay Shetty 14:21 Hmm

Gabrielle Bernstein 14:21 ... and to do it safely. Because I'm not going to those exiled parts. I'm not going to that little traumatized child. We're going to the day-to-day protection mechanisms.

Jay Shetty 14:30 Yeah. Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 14:31 And it's a four-step practice. It's a simple four-step practice.

Jay Shetty 14:33 So what do we do once we've identified this pattern?

Gabrielle Bernstein 14:37 Yep.

Jay Shetty 14:37 So whether it's anxiety, people-pleasing, avoidance, control. What do you then do once you've found this pattern that has been a protector, but ultimately is a blocker from self?

Gabrielle Bernstein 14:48 Yeah. So these patterns are the way that we check out. And so the practice in the book is called the four-step check-in process.

Jay Shetty 14:55 Mm-hmm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 14:55 And it's checking in with the part. And so the po- if you have enough space between that stimulus and the reaction, so let's say you are at work and your boss triggers you, and you're like, "Okay, I gotta get out of this office right now, and I gotta go into the bathroom, and I gotta check in with myself because otherwise I'm gonna do something I'm gonna regret." So you step away, or you... Typically stepping away is very valuable. Or you, maybe the next day you wanna check in 'cause it's still lingering. You, you get out of the instant of the trigger, and then you choose to check in instead of check out. So it's focusing your attention inward is the first step. Just, just looking inside. Just, just even closing your eyes and focusing your attention inside. The second step is curiosity. So that's where you start to just tease it out a little bit, and you'll say, "Okay, where does that part of me live in my body? Where do I feel it?" And you'll notice it's in my jaw, or it's in my stomach or in my chest or my shoulders or wherever it lives. You'll ask a few more questions. Are there any thoughts or feelings or sensations attached with this belief or pattern? And then you'll hear, you know, "I'm not good enough," or, you know, "I can..." Or maybe you'll have an image. You know, "I, I see myself and I'm five years old, and m- the bully on the playground is yelling at me," or whatever that storyline was. And, or, you know, "My, my, my dad just left," or whatever the experience. Maybe you'll see the image, or you'll hear words. So you just keep teasing it out, just noticing thoughts, feelings, sensations. What's happening inside? And once you have a little bit of connection, remember, that's self, you're gonna connect deeper with compassion, which is the third step. And you're gonna ask the part, not yourself, you're asking the part of you, the activated part of you, "What do you need?" And Jay, you'll be blown away. The part will say, "I need to dance. I need to rest. I need to play." Because what do these parts need? They need to be kids again.

Jay Shetty 16:44 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 16:45 They need to return to that natural role of being innocent. Or, "I need, I need love." And then once you have that third step, the fourth step is very easy, and it's really checking for self. So you're gonna check

Gabrielle Bernstein 16:57 in for those C qualities. Do I feel calm? Do I feel more compassionate? Do I feel connected? Do I have some clarity? Do I feel a little courageous? Do I have creative energy buzzing inside of me? Oftentimes you'll very quickly feel calmer. You'll feel some courage. Uh, and clarity is a big one that comes through quickly too. And so those four steps, rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat. And I've prescribed this. I've looked at my audiences and I've said, "Okay, listen, what about one minute a day, four steps is bothering you?" And everyone's like, "Nothing. I can do that." And so that's it. One minute a day, four steps. Because the thing is, once you do this one time, then you can realize, "Oh, wait, I can do this maybe in an hour from now," or, "I can do it before I'm going to bed when I'm having anxiety," or, "I can do it after that deep conversation with my partner that really activated me. I can keep coming back to this really simply without feeling like it's a burden." It doesn't ha- it can be as little or as much as you want. But I've always taught, as a metaphysical teacher, that the miracles that we experience in our life are the experiences when we change the way we experience something. Not that the things outside of us change, but that our experience of our experience changes. And that's what this will offer.

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Gabrielle Bernstein 19:39 Yes.

Jay Shetty 19:39 And I feel that's somewhere where we've lost in society, where it's constantly been what your parents thought, what your friends thought, what your family thinks. Now, what social media thinks. And we're so overexposed to everyone else's opinion, and it's so common for us to ask questions about what we should do with our life in the group chat.

Gabrielle Bernstein 20:01 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 20:02 You know, trying to get someone else's opinion to give us the answer.

Gabrielle Bernstein 20:06 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 20:06 And I think we've lost the ability to understand that all of the answers are right there within if we were simply to sit with ourselves. Your body will tell you, your heart will tell you, your mind will tell, tell you, and this practice really allows you to do that again. So it's not like, here's a fix-it-all situation. It will tell you something different every time. When someone does it for the first time, how can they do it in a way that they have an experience where they

Jay Shetty 20:32 get a taste that it's real? Because I think when we hear these things... And, and do you know what the truth is today? I've been thinking about this a lot, and you, you're the right person to ask this because you've shared so many great pieces of advice over the years. I feel everyone knows what they have to do, but we don't actually do it properly.

Gabrielle Bernstein 20:51 Mm. Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 20:51 And so we never have the qualitative experience that convinces us we should keep doing it. Whereas when you've had that qualitative experience, whether it's an amazing meditation, whether it's the four-step practice, once you've had that qualitative experience and you've felt the impact, you'll do it again and again and again. But the first time, how can someone really lock in the first time they do this?

Gabrielle Bernstein 21:13 Self begets more self. So the first way to step in is to look at your life and ask yourself, "Is this what I want? Is this it?" I think that those are really magic words. Is this it? Is, is this all I've got here? You know, I want more than this. Even just saying, "I, I want to change. I want more." Everyone listening is in some way, shape, or form wanting some aspect of change. And it, and that desire is there, and that desire wouldn't be planted in your heart if it wasn't ready to come forth, if it wasn't ready to be birthed.

Jay Shetty 21:50 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 21:51 So I think that that's the responsibility that we have to give ourselves, is to ask ourselves, this is our... That, that beautiful Mary Oliver quote of this is our one simple life. This, I'm, I'm botching it, but-

Jay Shetty 22:01 [laughs]

Gabrielle Bernstein 22:01 ... this is this one beautiful life that we have, and am I going to take it to the max? Am I going to live to the highest and the best? And, and, and that's one question, and that's one place to come to this, or the other place is that there may be people listening that are hitting a massive bottom in their life. And for those folks, Jay, it's gonna be a lot easier to pick up this book and start.

Jay Shetty 22:25 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 22:26 A lot easier. Because when we are... There's that beautiful Rumi quote, "The wound is the place where the light enters you."

Jay Shetty 22:32 Mm. I love that one.

Gabrielle Bernstein 22:33 When you are in that moment of hitting some kind of bottom, or you're hav- having that, that addiction come to an end, or you're in the divorce, or you're having a crisis at work, or you've lost the job, or you've gotten the diagnosis, those are the moments when the light enters you.

Jay Shetty 22:50 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 22:51 So the question you wanna ask yourself is, am I willing to do whatever it takes to get to great? Am I willing to do whatever it takes to feel great? And that's the, that's the path I've been on.

Jay Shetty 22:59 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 22:59 I've been on, I wanna, I wanna get to great.

Jay Shetty 23:02 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 23:02 I've lived through a lot of, a lot of different difficult experiences, as all of us have, and I've just been on a pursuit of feeling great. This is... And I, there's this interesting thing that I heard in a 12-step meeting early in my recovery, was if they want what you, if you want what they have, do what they do.

Jay Shetty 23:20 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 23:22 So sometimes that's just enough, to be listening and be like, "Well, Jay, Jay and Roddy did the..." You know? Or, or, you know, if you want what they have, do what they do. There's a reason that somebody is in... And when I say what they have, I don't mean the external things. I mean the inner peace. If you want what they have, do what they do. And the thing that happens that you said that was also quite interesting is that why this is a spiritual practice is because when you start to reflect inside and start to tend to these protection mechanisms, these burdened parts, they start to feel seen.

Jay Shetty 24:00 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 24:00 Like, what do child, a chi- a chi- what does a child need?

Jay Shetty 24:02 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 24:02 A child needs to be seen, soothed, loved, cared, cal- calm and compassionate energy. So it starts to feel like you have this internal parent inside, and you realize, as Dick Schwartz says, that you are the one you've been waiting for.

Jay Shetty 24:17 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 24:18 That all of the external validation or love orConnection or support, all that outside stuff that you've been seeking to find completion and safety is actually inside of you.

Jay Shetty 24:32 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 24:32 And I know that's something w- people always say in spiritual, and you'll really experience that with this.

Jay Shetty 24:38 What's, what's the balance, do you think, Gabby, of how much external validation and how much self-validation we need? Like, does external validation play any part in our ability to self-validate, or do you believe it's a full self-validation process and external validation is, should be irrelevant at some point?

Gabrielle Bernstein 24:58 I can really speak from my own experience. The more self I've accessed inside and the more self connection I have to that inner parent, that inner wisdom, the less external validation I need.

Jay Shetty 25:11 Mm-mm. Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 25:12 I don't need it.

Jay Shetty 25:13 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 25:13 And I'm a human, so it's not like I ... I ... No, honestly, Jay, I don't really think I need it. I don't feel like I'm grasping or looking or needing. And, and I think the other irony is that the more self y- that you have access to, the more self you attract. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 25:29 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 25:29 So the more calm, connected, compassionate energy you bring into your life, so you do get that love and that connection because you are always receiving back what you are vibrating

Gabrielle Bernstein 25:39 out.

Jay Shetty 25:39 Yeah. Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 25:40 And so the more you access self, the more you, the more you become that point of attraction for more self in your life.

Jay Shetty 25:46 Yeah. No, I love that answer because I've been talking to a lot of friends about that recently, about this idea of if you have the power to self-validate and self, to soothe and self-regulate and, and honor your hard work and intensity, then you won't crave it from others. And what I was explaining to someone was that any time I've wanted someone to validate me externally, they can never fully satisfied my need for it-

Gabrielle Bernstein 26:15 Mm-mm

Jay Shetty 26:15 ... because they haven't lived my life. And in the same way, I haven't lived theirs. So I can't validate them effectively either because I haven't been up with them on those sleepless nights. I haven't gone through the trauma that they've gone through. And so even if I'm to say, "Well done, you did great. That's amazing," it will still never fully satiate their desire for validation because, as you just quoted, uh, Dick Schwartz, that you're the one you've been waiting for. It's only

Jay Shetty 26:46 when I sit with myself and I cry at the thought of everything I've been through and honor myself for every way I've showed up for myself, whether it's my body, my mind, my heart, or my soul, that's the only time when I'll actually be satisfied.

Gabrielle Bernstein 27:02 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 27:03 And I've noticed that again and again, so I completely agree with you. The point isn't that I don't appreciate external validation. I do. The point isn't that I'm not inspired when I'm validated externally. I am. But the only type of validation that really, really, like, affects me deep in my heart and my gut is when it's coming from me-

Gabrielle Bernstein 27:24 That's right

Jay Shetty 27:24 ... because I have all the details. I have the record books. I have the files and, uh, the notes on every difficult moment I've been through, just as you do for yourself.

Gabrielle Bernstein 27:33 We are the ones we've been waiting for. [laughs] It, it ... I had, I had the experience just yesterday, a really epic experience where I was... My son, who's, uh, six and a half years old now, and so we belong to this really sweet lake club in our community in the countryside. And it's, like, 1950s, and there's these docks and grills, and it's kind of like the, the, the dirtier your sweatpants are, the be- the cooler you are there.

Jay Shetty 27:57 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 27:57 And clay tennis courts, and it's just really idyllic. And my kid's at the age now where he can just, like, run around and do his thing, and I'm not ... And he's a great swimmer, and I'm not stressed out about what's going on, so I'm like, "Go do you, man."

Jay Shetty 28:10 [laughs]

Gabrielle Bernstein 28:10 And I'm sitting on the dock by myself. My husband was out for a drive. I'm sitting. I just played some tennis. I'm sitting on the dock. I've got this new book in my hand. I'm in my, you know, my red bathing suit. I've got my iced coffee next to me. It's like, like, there's, like ... It's dirty all over the dock, but I didn't care. And I was just sitting there on this, like, cozy chair, and I'm looking out at the water, and I had this incredible energy just pour through me, this energy that was just like whoosh, just s- spirit. It was spirit coming, coming through me. That's the way I would just define this. And this just self energy, just so connected, so in the moment, so present. There wasn't anything else that I was thinking about or trying to get to or trying to do. And it was just this moment of, "Whoa, this is what we've been training for."

Jay Shetty 28:58 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 28:59 It just flood in, and that isn't a fleeting moment. That's how we can live our lives. We can live, not all day, every day are we gonna be in self. We're gonna get activated. We're gonna get triggered. The best of us are gonna get triggered, but it's, the triggers become less, less, l- l- the, the, what once was years would be days or minutes or, or, or five seconds. And we start to access more of that presence, and that taste of that, that energy, that self energy, you want more of it. And also, I think that there's this thing I always call spiritual proof. When you have an experience of something where you say, "Oh my God, I just did that four-step thing, and I actually feel a little bit calmer," and Gabby said, "All I need is to be a little bit calmer, and then I've done the job. I've done this. If I even feel the slightest molecule of self, I've done the work," that experience of that molecule of self is something you crave.

Jay Shetty 29:51 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 29:51 You want more of it.

Jay Shetty 29:52 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 29:53 It's like going to the gym.

Jay Shetty 29:54 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 29:54 You want more of it.

Jay Shetty 29:55 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 29:56 So to keep practicing it.

Jay Shetty 29:57 Yeah. What's... One of the ways people experience a protector or a trigger is self-judgment-

Gabrielle Bernstein 30:03 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 30:03 ... and self-criticism-

Gabrielle Bernstein 30:05 Yeah

Jay Shetty 30:05 ... or the inner critic. How do you even reconcile the fact that self-judgment is a protector in some way?

Gabrielle Bernstein 30:11 Mm. Self-judgment's a huge protector. I actually wrote a book called Judgment Detox. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 30:16 Yeah, I remember.

Gabrielle Bernstein 30:17 I was a little bit ahead of myself there. Because it's very much what this work is about. It's, it's ... Judgment is a way of ... Judging ourselves is definitely a protector because-If there is something big, too uncomfortable to access that's being activated, feelings of being inadequate, unlovable, we are going to do anything we can to numb that pain. So one, we're gonna judge others so we don't have to feel the pain inside, or two, we'll judge ourselves, start nitpicking and judging ourselves because it's easier to judge and attack ourselves than it is to feel the pain. And what happens with this beautiful practice is that as you start to tend inward, you recognize

Gabrielle Bernstein 31:00 that you don't have to re-experience the pain.

Jay Shetty 31:03 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 31:04 You can just be present with what the Protector needs in that moment, and in that moment it can just soften, and it's these moment-by-moment unburdenings of the pain of that, of that, that you've held onto for so long.

Jay Shetty 31:18 Mm. So what do we do with the self-critic through this four-step practice?

Gabrielle Bernstein 31:22 Great question.

Jay Shetty 31:23 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 31:23 So, so you'd notice yourself in that self-critic or that attack or judgment, and you would have... Again, you have to have enough space between the attack and the, and the response to it, and sometimes it might not happen till the next day when you have a little bit of a, of a judgment hangover or whatever it is, but you notice it, and you say, "Okay, you know, I'm gonna check in." And so you'd check in with the judgment, and you'd, you'd focus your attention towards that judgment inside. So instead of being in your head, you'd get into your in- in- internally. And I, I like to close my eyes with this. I can also suggest that people do this with journaling, so at the top of the page you could say, "I choose to check in with my judgment." And then the compassionate, the curious connection, that curiosity coming inside, you'd ask the, the judgment, you know, w- w- "What are you trying to tell me? What are you trying to reveal?"

Jay Shetty 32:10 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 32:10 Because the judgment will then speak, and this is really helpful. You asked earlier what's a great way to start. Journaling is a great way to do this because if you're just journaling with it, you'll let your pen flow, and that stream of consciousness will start to come forward onto the page. And you'll be blown away what the part will start to say. Just journal with the part. So you ask it, "What do you need?" And then you'll just journal, journal, journal, and then it's gonna, you know, carry on with the four questions.

Jay Shetty 32:32 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 32:32 So check-in, curiosity, compassion, and what do we, "What do you need?" And then start to journal more, "How do I feel now?"

Jay Shetty 32:40 Yeah. It's almost starting to treat ourselves. You, you said this earlier, and it's resonating more as you explain the practice, this idea of treating those parts of yourself as small children.

Gabrielle Bernstein 32:51 Yes.

Jay Shetty 32:51 And it's like if a child was crying, the first thing you'd say is, "Hey, what's up?" Like, "How's... What's going on?" Like, "How are you feeling?" Like, "W- what happened? Are you okay?"

Gabrielle Bernstein 33:01 Yes.

Jay Shetty 33:01 Whereas when we see the parts of ourselves crying inside or kicking up a fuss, we're just like, "Go away."

Gabrielle Bernstein 33:08 Go away.

Jay Shetty 33:09 "Go away. I don't wanna talk to you."

Gabrielle Bernstein 33:11 This is a actual question I ask my audiences is, you know, if your, if a little child in your life was having a hard moment or saying, "I'm really scared," or, "I'm really activated," y- the first thing you would do is calm connection. Your self energy would rise to the occasion. Calm, connected, curious, "What, what do you need?" But the way that we speak to ourselves is insane. It's horrible. We just are so mean to ourselves and so aggressive with ourselves and wanting to shut it down. That's exactly right.

Jay Shetty 33:39 Why do we find it

Jay Shetty 33:40 easier to soothe others but not soothe ourselves?

Gabrielle Bernstein 33:44 Mm. Well, because we need... We believe, or n- n- unconsciously, I don't think we know this, but we unconsciously believe that we need these Protectors to stay alive. So I'll give an example. Uh, I had very severe codependent addiction before I was a drug addict, and in that codependent addiction, I literally had a belief that if I'm not in a relationship, I will die. It wasn't I s- could... Wouldn't say that out loud, but it felt like that. It felt like death.

Jay Shetty 34:12 You behaved like that. You actually-

Gabrielle Bernstein 34:13 It was literally like, "Oh, my God," if I... Clinging and fawning, and if that, that d- relationship doesn't work out, I find another one. And I was actually talking with a, a woman yesterday who's, um, who re- i- identifies as a codependent and, and has a very serious addiction to this one partner that she's been trying to, to release, and she keeps going back, and she keeps going back, and, and she's like, "I just, it's just such a drug." And, and I said, "Well, what does it feel like if you were to end it?" And she's like, "I literally feel like I would die." And that's the thing with these Protectors is that th- that we, we don't realize it, but they actually are protecting us-

Jay Shetty 34:46 Mm

Gabrielle Bernstein 34:47 ... from feelings that we think and believe inside, unprocessed trauma feelings that we believe will take us down. We believe they will take us down. And it, it's only when we start to self-soothe and access a little bit of that self inside that we can start to realize, "No, no, no, no, actually there's some safety here."

Jay Shetty 35:11 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 35:11 "I feel like I can actually be a little bit more resilient than I thought," or, "It's not that terrifying to go there. I can go there, and I can be okay on the other side." But we have to have that spiritual proof in order to actually have even any desire to keep going.

Jay Shetty 35:28 Yeah. I think that's, that's that part where I'm like the first time you do this, for anyone who's listening and watching, really give it your all because-

Gabrielle Bernstein 35:35 Yes

Jay Shetty 35:35 ... you can experience spiritual proof early.

Gabrielle Bernstein 35:38 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 35:39 And as soon as you have that, you're just set because you now know what you're working towards. Not that you want the same feeling or the same emotion. It'll be different, but you know the process works, and I think sometimes it's almost like everyone knows they need to work out, and everyone knows they need to take supplements and vitamins.

Gabrielle Bernstein 35:56 Mm.

Jay Shetty 35:56 But when you don't do that properly and you don't do it consistently, you don't have the proof that it works.

Gabrielle Bernstein 36:01 Let's give them the proof right now.

Jay Shetty 36:02 Yeah. Go on.

Gabrielle Bernstein 36:02 Let's give them the experience right now.

Jay Shetty 36:04 Let's do it. Okay. Let's do it.

Gabrielle Bernstein 36:04 Because the... One of the things I don't love about this sort of therapeutic book is that talking about it-

Jay Shetty 36:10 Yeah

Gabrielle Bernstein 36:11 ... it's like people are just like, "Whew," like I... You know? The... And the... And also Protectors get up, like s- other Protectors like literally like, you're gonna have to bleep me, but they're like, "This. I don't want to go there."

Jay Shetty 36:22 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 36:23 And so that's why it

Gabrielle Bernstein 36:24 took me years in therapy, and I wish I'd had this book because I think it would've been a more gentle access to it. So I don't... Let's stop talking about it.

Jay Shetty 36:30 Let's do it.

Gabrielle Bernstein 36:31 I'll give it to them.

Jay Shetty 36:31 Okay.

Gabrielle Bernstein 36:32 Okay? And you can do it for yourself. I, I think, I think everyone listening-Maybe you, you close your eyes while we do this if you want to

Jay Shetty 36:38 Yeah

Gabrielle Bernstein 36:38 And, and for your own sake, Jay, just think of a Protector that you might be aware of. And, and you don't have to say out loud what you're working with unless you want to later, okay? And everybody listening, check in right now with n- at this point, maybe you're aware of a part of yourself that is a little activated at times, or maybe very activated at times, the parts that are controlling or addicted, or maybe the part that runs to the refrigerator or checks out with YouTube, or the aspects of yourself that you wanna check in with, and choose one right now. And once you're aware of that part, if you're not driving, you can gently close your eyes and focus your attention inward, and choose to check in with the part. And now noticing inside with a little curiosity, where does that part of you live in your body? Where do you feel it inside? And does it have a shape or a color, or is there any words or thoughts or memories attached to it? And give it a breath. Take a deep breath in like Jay just did. Breathe in with it, and just be present with it and let it know that it's safe to, to let you know more. So any memories or feelings or sensations, and don't judge anything that comes forward, just let it come through. And now that you have a little bit of access and connection to this part, you can ask it one last time, "Is there anything else that you want me to know?" And now, with that access to the part, I want you to check in a little bit more closely and offer it a little bit of compassionate connection, asking the part, "What do you need?" And just listen. Don't overthink it. Don't judge it. Just listen. And now take a deep breath in, and maybe place your hand on your heart and your other hand on your belly, and just breathing in, and just let that part know that you've listened, that you're here. And take another deep breath in. And now just check in and notice how you feel. Do you feel even the slightest bit more calm? Do you feel a little bit of compassion towards that part? Are you curious? Would you like to know a little bit more at some point? Are you willing to get to know more? Do you feel connected? Do you have more clarity about it? Any creative energy buzzing through you? Feel a little buzziness. Just notice those C qualities, courage, any confidence. And just take one last deep breath in. And just let it go. And then whenever you're ready, you can open your eyes. See how you feel. I watched you go there. It was beautiful.

Jay Shetty 40:42 It was, uh, it was great. It was, um... What I really liked about it, the part that really helped me was being able to approach something head-on, which we don't do-

Gabrielle Bernstein 40:58 Yeah

Jay Shetty 40:59 ... and then to actually sit with it with compassion in a good way. So my normal reaction to it would be, "God, why do I do this? Why am I doing that? God, it's so annoying. Oh, I know this came from something in my past," or that's the kind of energy that it often has. And to not have that energy for that Protector was new-

Gabrielle Bernstein 41:25 Yeah

Jay Shetty 41:26 ... because the energy that I have for the Protector is m- most likely negative or condescending or some sort of kind of derogatory kind of feeling, whereas this was... it was really pleasant to sit-

Gabrielle Bernstein 41:38 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 41:40 ... in, oh, like, you're not all that bad.

Gabrielle Bernstein 41:42 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 41:42 Like, you've been needed. You've

Jay Shetty 41:45 performed a purpose. You've been useful, and, and it's not perfect, but I'm, I'm grateful. Like, th-

Gabrielle Bernstein 41:51 Yeah

Jay Shetty 41:52 Yeah. And that, that was quite new. I'd never done that before.

Gabrielle Bernstein 41:55 There's a lot of clarity there.

Jay Shetty 41:57 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 41:57 You see that? That's a lot of Self, Jay.

Jay Shetty 41:58 Yeah. Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 41:59 That clarity.

Jay Shetty 42:00 Mm-hmm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 42:01 So if you're walking... for the listener who's walking out of this or experiencing this just for the first time, and they have-- they're like, "Oh, I learned something new," that's, that's Self. Did you feel a bit more calm?

Jay Shetty 42:11 Mm-hmm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 42:11 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 42:11 Mm-hmm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 42:11 Self. Uh, you felt some compassion towards something.

Jay Shetty 42:14 Mm-hmm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 42:14 Self. So anyone that's listening, even the slightest, like I said, the molecule of calmness or compassion or connection, you've done it perfectly.

Jay Shetty 42:22 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 42:22 'Cause this is perfect.

Jay Shetty 42:23 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 42:24 And if you're like, "I actually feel worse," that's fine, too, because you tried, right? You, you did the-- you went through the journey.

Jay Shetty 42:30 Mm-hmm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 42:30 That, th- that doesn't-- th- this is just the first baby step in.

Jay Shetty 42:33 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 42:34 The experience, like I shared earlier, is about getting into relationship with the part, not-Pushing it away, shutting it down, blaming and shaming.

Jay Shetty 42:47 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 42:48 It's getting into relationship with. And here's the cool part: the more you do this, the more you can actually speak for your parts rather than as your parts.

Jay Shetty 42:56 Yes. Wow, that's really powerful. Say that again-

Gabrielle Bernstein 42:59 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 42:59 ... 'cause that, that's really good.

Gabrielle Bernstein 43:00 The more you practice this, the easier it is for you to speak for your parts rather than as your parts.

Jay Shetty 43:07 I mean, that's it, right?

Gabrielle Bernstein 43:09 I'll give you an example.

Jay Shetty 43:10 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 43:10 Yesterday, you know, I have a part that's, that's, she's doing okay. She's called Knives Out. She's been really at bay, and the person that she likes to bring the knives out to is my husband, poor Zach. So she loves to bring those knives out. And, but, but we've been so good. You know, like, my husband and I do IFS therapy for couples therapy.

Jay Shetty 43:28 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 43:28 So, like, we are, we're in a great-

Jay Shetty 43:31 Yeah

Gabrielle Bernstein 43:31 ... we're rocking.

Jay Shetty 43:31 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 43:31 I mean, it's, it's amazing that marriages can get that much better-

Jay Shetty 43:34 Yeah

Gabrielle Bernstein 43:34 ... over time. The, and we have a language around it. And I said to him, uh, something happened where he said something that was really triggering to me. It was, like, something that we're like, I did something with my kid that he didn't like, and he was kinda shaming me, but not on purpose. But I felt shamed, 'cause when does Knives Out come out, Jay? When I feel shame, right? Like, I don't wanna feel that shame, so instead of feeling that shame, I'm gonna literally bring the knives out, go and become completely overtaken. You'll com- if anyone that read my book saw me, they'd be, like, terrified and cry and run in the corner. And Knives Out comes out, and she's, like, cursing, and she's like, "Go F yourself," ba, ba... You know, and, like, outraged. And it, later that night, Zach was just like, "I don't know what to do with that part. It's like, like, what the hell was that? Why did you... We've been so good. Why'd you have to act out like that?" And I said, "I was triggered in the moment, and I was taken over by the part, and I wanna speak for the part." There's that part, again, that when she feels shame, she goes into a nu- she checks out and become blended with the part.

Jay Shetty 44:41 Mm-hmm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 44:41 You literally could take on, like, a different physical form.

Jay Shetty 44:43 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 44:43 Your face can change. Your voice can change. And I just said, "I'm, I'm really sorry for how I acted, and I wanna take ownership that that part-

Jay Shetty 44:52 Mm

Gabrielle Bernstein 44:52 ... gets really..." And I'm not, you know, saying, "Oh, it's just a part, so get over it." I'm saying, "That's that part that I'm still working with."

Jay Shetty 44:58 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 44:58 "I'm gonna speak for the part."

Jay Shetty 45:00 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 45:00 "The part got really activated. She felt shame."

Jay Shetty 45:03 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 45:03 And she, when she feels shame, she can't, she goes crazy. "And so I'm gonna keep working with her, and I'm sorry that she acted out."

Jay Shetty 45:09 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 45:09 "But I'm speaking for her, that rather than as her." As her would've been, like, still in that rage. "I'm protecting no matter what."

Jay Shetty 45:17 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 45:18 Fighting for the part.

Jay Shetty 45:19 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 45:19 And this is really cool in work environments. So if you've got coworkers that you work with or a boss that pisses you off, you can start speaking for the part. You can go to the boss and just say, "Hey, listen," m- m- depending on h- the environment. But you could in your own way say, "Hey, listen, [clicks tongue] uh, I just wanna let you know that when w- I get really flustered when I don't know the answer. So I just wanted to let you know that, that a part of me gets really activated when I don't know all the answers. So if you see me acting weird in those moments, just wanted to let you know, 'cause I'm not trying to bullshit you, but I actually just get really flustered."

Jay Shetty 45:48 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 45:49 And you just imagine living like that or starting a relationship with somebody, and you, you have this language. And you're like, "Listen, a part of me is, like, a very anxious [laughs] attachment style. And I just want you to know that, like, like, I might act a little nuts at times because this is a part of me that gets activated." If I was dating a guy in, early in a relationship and he said that to me, I'd be like, "Bro, let's, let's take this further."

Jay Shetty 46:09 Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 46:09 And, and if they can't, then that's not your partner, right?

Jay Shetty 46:11 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 46:11 But speaking for these parts just makes you so much cooler.

Jay Shetty 46:15 Yeah. [laughs]

Gabrielle Bernstein 46:16 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 46:16 It's like, it's like the animation Inside Out.

Gabrielle Bernstein 46:19 It, well-

Jay Shetty 46:19 Right?

Gabrielle Bernstein 46:19 ... Inside Out is based on IFS.

Jay Shetty 46:20 Yeah, right, right, right.

Gabrielle Bernstein 46:21 It's based on IFS.

Jay Shetty 46:23 That makes so much sense.

Gabrielle Bernstein 46:24 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 46:24 That makes so much sense.

Gabrielle Bernstein 46:24 That's right. And it's, that's why I love it for kids-

Jay Shetty 46:26 Yeah

Gabrielle Bernstein 46:26 ... to teach, 'cause then I'll talk to my, my kid about that film, and I'll be like, "Oh, remember the anxious guy?"

Jay Shetty 46:30 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 46:30 And, you know?

Jay Shetty 46:31 Yeah, yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 46:31 And they can speak for these parts of yourself.

Jay Shetty 46:33 Yeah. Talk to me about how you've been using IFS in those two ways. So you talked about with your husband, Zach-

Gabrielle Bernstein 46:40 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 46:40 ... and with your son. Let's talk about IFS in that context of being in a relationship-

Gabrielle Bernstein 46:47 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 46:47 ... and a romantic relationship and then having a relationship with your child. Let's start with romantic relationship. If someone's starting to do this work, and they want to encourage their partner to be included in it, how, how do you do that? How do you go about that conversation, in a way? I feel like so many people today are like, "I don't wanna date someone who hasn't done therapy."

Gabrielle Bernstein 47:08 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 47:08 "I don't wanna date someone who hasn't healed." How do you actually have that conversation in a healthy way?

Gabrielle Bernstein 47:13 I'm gonna answer that with a story, okay? So, and 'cause I get this question all the time. When I first started th- uh, this yoga practice dec- uh, almost a decade ago, and I was so deeply into it, and I was, like, doing the sadhana, and I was wearing the turban. You remember. And I was, like, in the whites and the, and I was, like, every day, all day,

Gabrielle Bernstein 47:33 going to the, the teacher training. I'd come home, and I'd be like, "Zach, you have to do this, like, f- you know, five-hour breathwork practice with your hands in the air with me." And he was just like, "Go F yourself." Like, "No, I'm not doing that." And like, and I kept being like, "Well, why isn't he doing it?" And I went to my teacher, and I said, "Listen, my husband isn't doing the practice with me, doesn't wanna do it." And she looked at me, and she said, "The second that you walk in the door when you get home," she said, "Take off the turban and shut up." [laughs] And that was it. That's my answer for everybody. You know, take off your metaphorical turban and shut up because if your partner's not ready for it, they're not ready for it. You do the work.

Jay Shetty 48:06 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 48:06 You are the one you've been waiting for. You get to work. You start tending to the parts of yourself inside, and when you change, everybody else around you has the opportunity to rise up with you.

Jay Shetty 48:17 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 48:17 And that's, in relationships, if you start to rise and they don't rise with you, then that's your sign. Okay, it's time to move on. But when you rise, you give somebody the opportunity to elevate with you, alongside you. But you gotta do the work. You can't... Yeah, you could say, "I'm, you know, attracting a partner that wants to do the work," but their work might be different than your work.

Jay Shetty 48:34 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 48:35 And so I, I've been on my own path. Zach's been on his own path. We find intersection, but he's not sitting, sitting and going to ashram, or he's not gonna go and deep, do a two-hour meditation. But he will do self-help with me.

Jay Shetty 48:49 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 48:49 He'll check in with me. But this is a journey.You gotta do the work for yourself.

Jay Shetty 48:53 Yeah. What about when your parts, even when you learn to speak for your parts and not as your parts, what happens when your parts have pushed people too far away?

Gabrielle Bernstein 49:04 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 49:04 So for example, with your knives out, Zach is an understanding person who's doing the work with you. He's also trying to figure this out, I'm sure. He has his version of whatever it is. What do you do when your parts have acted out and you've realized too late that they've actually pushed people quite far away? Is that repairable?

Gabrielle Bernstein 49:23 The word is repair. I think that that depends on the relationship. We, as an addict, I know very well what it, what it means to make an amends.

Jay Shetty 49:33 Mm-hmm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 49:33 A lot of times we, as addicts, can ha- th- those are... Addicts are very extreme parts. They're called firefighter parts that are, that are literally at w- its end, I have to do whatever it takes to put out the fire and the flames of this impermissible feeling. And so that's why addicts deserve a tremendous amount of compassion because oftentimes we're traumatized people who do not have the resources in that moment

Gabrielle Bernstein 49:54 to actually heal and help ourselves. So in the, in the scenario of an addict, let's just say, they may have pushed a lot of people away. They might have, they might have, uh, created a lot of wreckage, and so it's first in the inner work of the self-forgiveness. There's a p- chapter in the book called Self-Forgiveness. In, in, in the inner work of getting in r- relationship with those parts and recognizing that, that that was a part that was working really hard, and forgiving yourself first because you won't really be able to even be in an energy that could be resonant with someone to receive their forgiveness if you don't forgive yourself first because then you're needing them to make it right for you. You have to make it right for you.

Jay Shetty 50:37 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 50:38 And when you do that, that's when your amends will really land. So I can look at Zach now and say, "I know-

Jay Shetty 50:46 Mm

Gabrielle Bernstein 50:47 ... that this part needs me, and I'm working really hard with her, and so I'm gonna forgive her, and I'm gonna a- you know, ask for your forgiveness as well."

Jay Shetty 50:57 Mm-hmm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 50:58 And so I think that's the answer, Jay, is that if you've pushed, if your parts have, have created a lot of wreckage in your life, then you have to really, th- th- uh, no one has to. My suggestion is to go deep into your own inner healing and forgiveness of yourself and forgiveness of the parts and acceptance of the parts, and then you'll be shown. Self will guide you. You'll be self-led. Self is spirit, so self is, is God. Self is the energy of love inside of you. It will show you, okay, when you feel that you have access to that self-forgiveness inside, you're gonna know that it's time to go and make amends. And maybe you get the forgiveness or maybe you don't.

Jay Shetty 51:34 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 51:35 But you don't need it, but you're there to ask. To-

Jay Shetty 51:38 Yeah

Gabrielle Bernstein 51:38 ... to really to, to make amends. I, I think that all relationships, if there are two parties that are interested if in, in, in this, this is an extraordinary practice for a couple.

Jay Shetty 51:48 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 51:48 Extraordinary. It's an extraordinary practice for a parent. Um, Dr. Becky Kenney is a good friend, and she's also-

Jay Shetty 51:54 Yeah

Gabrielle Bernstein 51:54 ... very good friends with Dick Schwartz, and she practices a lot of IFS in the work as well. And, and, and it comes through in her work a lot because think about it. It's curiosity.

Jay Shetty 52:02 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 52:02 You have a DFK, deeply feeling kid, like I do, and they, th- the child needs your self-energy. In the case of my child, so to answer the second question of how do we do this with our kids, some kids might like the four steps. Some kids might like, uh, you know, they're really activated, and you're like, "Okay, let's check in. You know, let me check in." And you actually could go through the steps with them. Let's check in with that part at, where do you feel that in your body, baby? And just checking in. Okay. Oh, and then what do you need, and how do you feel now that Mommy's given you a little bit of breath? And remembering that our children are always co-regulating with... They're, they're regulating with our energy.

Jay Shetty 52:37 Mm-hmm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 52:38 So we're not co-regulating. They're regulating with us, and so our self-energy, the more we do this, the better a parent we will be.

Jay Shetty 52:44 Mm-hmm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 52:45 Because what does a child need? A self-led leader in the home.

Jay Shetty 52:48 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 52:48 The child doesn't need a lot of child parts parenting them. They need the adult resourced, undamaged self as often as possible as the parent because that's what's safe, and so that self begets more self. In the case of my child, if I start trying to go through the four steps with him, he's like, "Are you kidding me?"

Jay Shetty 53:09 [laughs]

Gabrielle Bernstein 53:09 He is so allergic to-

Jay Shetty 53:11 Yeah

Gabrielle Bernstein 53:11 ... to, you know, these kind of conversation. You're like, "How are you feeling?" He's like, "No, Mommy."

Jay Shetty 53:15 [laughs]

Gabrielle Bernstein 53:15 So I have to do it in little backwards ways. You know? I'll just be very casual. Be like, "Yo, bro, how are you feeling? Like, what's going on? Like, what happened today?" You know, just really-

Jay Shetty 53:23 Yeah

Gabrielle Bernstein 53:23 ... cazh. Really cazh.

Jay Shetty 53:25 [laughs]

Gabrielle Bernstein 53:25 So you have to know your kid.

Jay Shetty 53:27 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 53:27 The kid is like, "Don't try that on me, Mommy."

Jay Shetty 53:32 [laughs]

Gabrielle Bernstein 53:32 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 53:32 Yeah, and that, and that's, that's the beauty of it, though, is that it gives you a language to speak to the other people in your life as well.

Gabrielle Bernstein 53:40 Yes. So if you have friends or other parties involved, it gives you a collective language. So it's really funny. Whenever I'm around my, my, my friends in the IFS community, you know, I, I did a call t- yesterday with Dick Schwartz and his wife, and we were talking about AI stuff, and I was giving them some guidance, and they were getting activated by it 'cause it's new, and it's like, "What do you mean? Are you like a clone? Like, what are you talking about?" And, um, and, and I looked at them, and I was like, "So guys, you know, I know I have a really aggressive part that likes to get really excited about things, so just warning you as we enter this con..." And so we all speak for our parts in these relationships.

Jay Shetty 54:12 That's amazing.

Gabrielle Bernstein 54:12 And it really is quite funny when you're around s- IFS people 'cause we're all just like, "My part feels this." But it's beautiful. I mean, imagine the whole world just walking around being like, "Hey, I just want to speak for a part of myself before I act like an asshole."

Jay Shetty 54:23 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 54:24 Right?

Jay Shetty 54:24 Yeah, yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 54:25 It's incredible. It's a totally different way to live. It's, it's-

Jay Shetty 54:28 Do people use it as an excuse though, like a-

Gabrielle Bernstein 54:30 Definitely

Jay Shetty 54:30 ... false disclaimer?

Gabrielle Bernstein 54:31 Definitely.

Jay Shetty 54:31 Yeah, yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 54:31 Definitely. You, you don't wanna start being like m- in that sort of wounded place of like, "Well, my part-"

Jay Shetty 54:36 It's kind of like a, "No offense, but..."

Gabrielle Bernstein 54:37 And that happens-

Jay Shetty 54:38 Yeah

Gabrielle Bernstein 54:38 ... in all practices.

Jay Shetty 54:39 Of course.

Gabrielle Bernstein 54:39 Right?

Jay Shetty 54:39 Of course.

Gabrielle Bernstein 54:39 You're gonna be like, "Well, I just needed my mo- my four-hour meditation," or, "I didn't do enough mantras this morning," or whatever, you know? But in this instance, I think that we, this is about taking ownership of our parts, but not in a way where we're judging them, but where we're befriending them-

Jay Shetty 54:54 Yeah

Gabrielle Bernstein 54:54 ... and speaking for them and taking care of them.

Jay Shetty 54:57 Is there, is there ever a time, we've talked a lot about self-soothing, self-regulating, self-help overall, is there ever a time where being hard on yourself is actually useful and effective?

Gabrielle Bernstein 55:10 You ask the best questions.

Jay Shetty 55:11 [laughs]

Gabrielle Bernstein 55:11 You're so good at this. Uh, you know, I think that there's... So this is actually a beautiful a- question. There are s- there are protectors that also have really valuable, they all have valuable roles, right? So let's think about it from the standpoint of my, my workaholic really created a lot of drama and chaos in my life, and gastro issues, and just constant hypervigilance, but she also wrote 10 books in 14 years, right? And she's helped served a lot of souls. So we didn't wanna shut her down or blame her or shame her. She was doing the best she could, and she also did a lot of good along the way. And we can, we can be in difficult times and still be doing great things in the world. So I think that, th- that a part that is,

Gabrielle Bernstein 55:57 that is sort of beating us up or, or not even beating us up, maybe like an encouraging part that's like, you know, "Push harder, go more," v- it's, it's, it's a self-like part. It's not a s- it's not self, but it has m- more self aspects than protector aspects. And the real question isn't, is that bad or good? It's really is, is it extreme?

Jay Shetty 56:17 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 56:18 Because if it's extreme, that's when you really need to start to tend to it. Because remember, we could be very praised for our perfectionism, or very praised for our work ethic, or very praised for how hard we hit the gym or how much we practice that tennis, and we could be really praised for that, and it looks like a great quality, and in many ways it is. But when it's extreme, it's oftentimes a, a very extreme protector.

Jay Shetty 56:44 Mm-hmm. Yeah, and that's the, that's... And that's why you've got to approach it in the same way.

Gabrielle Bernstein 56:49 Yes.

Jay Shetty 56:49 You can't judge that part of you-

Gabrielle Bernstein 56:50 No

Jay Shetty 56:50 ... that is hard on you.

Gabrielle Bernstein 56:51 No. Check on, check in with it.

Jay Shetty 56:52 Because it has value. Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 56:53 Yeah. And the, the thing that's happened, now here's the miracle. When you start to check in with these parts, and you start to befriend them, and you start to self-soothe, and you start to create this relationship inside, it's not that the parts have to go away, Jay, it's that the parts now become the best versions of themselves.

Jay Shetty 57:12 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 57:13 They come- they return to their natural roles. So my workaholic part, look, I've got you today, and then I'm going off to the next thing, I've got three more podcasts tomorrow. I'm still showing up, but I'm doing it in a less extreme way. You know this. You've known me for almost a decade. My energy's different.

Jay Shetty 57:31 100%.

Gabrielle Bernstein 57:31 I'm not doing, I mean, I'm not doing less, I'm just more intentional, and I'm more aligned, and I'm more resourced, and I'm having more fun, and I'm more childlike.

Jay Shetty 57:40 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 57:41 I can't tell you how many friends, like you and Lewis, and, and like brothers of mine have been like, "Gabby, you're like so, so youthful

Gabrielle Bernstein 57:46 and childlike."

Jay Shetty 57:47 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 57:47 You guys said that to me when we had dinner.

Jay Shetty 57:49 Yeah, yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 57:49 And that's just the unburdening because i- it's gonna make me cry. It's like you return to this childlike presence inside that was, was always there.

Jay Shetty 57:57 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 57:57 It just got taken from you.

Jay Shetty 57:59 Yeah, I mean, you, when we were at Lewis's wedding, I ne- I didn't actually tell you this. I told you at dinner, which I think we had like a year ago, but when we were at Lewis's wedding earlier this year, I was just, I was thinking about it a lot and I was like, "Wow, Gabby's just so at peace." Like you just have this ease about you these days that, not that you we- and you were like th- when I first met you, you were like, you were buzzy and you were like kinda like, you know, you had all this good energy. You always have. I've never felt anything different. But I could feel that like ease and grace and peace from you.

Gabrielle Bernstein 58:26 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 58:26 And that's a really beautiful thing when you experience it in someone because I think we're used to being around high-performing people who have big goals and targets and things like that, and that's not a fun energy to be around.

Gabrielle Bernstein 58:38 Mm-mm.

Jay Shetty 58:38 It's kinda, it's, it's not like, it's not attractive, that energy.

Gabrielle Bernstein 58:41 Mm-mm.

Jay Shetty 58:41 It's... And we're all ambitious and stuff, so there's nothing wrong with that, but if that's someone's overarching energy, it, it's not the same as when you're around someone who's kind of just at ease and peace, even though they are driven and ambitious. Talk to me about that kind of paradox.

Gabrielle Bernstein 58:56 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 58:56 Because I think we think that if someone's at peace, they're slow.

Gabrielle Bernstein 58:59 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 58:59 And

Jay Shetty 59:00 if someone's ambitious, they're fast.

Gabrielle Bernstein 59:02 Mm.

Jay Shetty 59:03 Talk to me about slow, fast-

Gabrielle Bernstein 59:05 Yeah

Jay Shetty 59:05 ... peaceful, ambitious.

Gabrielle Bernstein 59:06 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 59:07 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 59:07 Yeah. Well, oftentimes high-performing entrepreneurs do have a lot of shadow parts.

Jay Shetty 59:14 100%.

Gabrielle Bernstein 59:14 But oftentimes that is the, the reason for so much of their successes.

Jay Shetty 59:18 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 59:19 And it's when those folks begin to alchemize and start to recognize and do the work, however that work shows up in their life, that their real successes, not, not external, but that, that they're, that they're actually able to achieve what they're truly capable of. And so achievement is not a sign of self energy at all. Achievement's oftentimes a sign of a lot of protectors working their ass off to get something going-

Jay Shetty 59:45 Mm

Gabrielle Bernstein 59:45 ... to, to protect you.

Jay Shetty 59:47 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 59:47 What happens when we are in that self energy, when we're in self, is that it's not that we, if we are a high performer just by nature, s- s- certain people just have different energies, right? We're born with different frequencies. W- if that's in your nature and that's a part of you, it's not that that goes away, it's just that you can do it in a more sustainable way.

Jay Shetty 1:00:08 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:00:08 You have more boundaries. You have more ability to say yes, say no. You are, uh, clearer, so you're making better decisions. You're clearer, so you're not surrounding yourself with the wrong folks. You're, so you're s- you can actually move even faster and create even more because you're not burdened.

Jay Shetty 1:00:26 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:00:27 So it's, it's not fast or slow.

Jay Shetty 1:00:30 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:00:30 It's what is the energy that's moving through you.

Jay Shetty 1:00:33 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:00:34 When you have self energy, you can move real fast.

Jay Shetty 1:00:37 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:00:37 But it's so intentional that it has so much more power, and you actually can do a lot less and attract a lot more.

Jay Shetty 1:00:43 Yeah. Yeah. Let's l- one thing you mentioned there that really resonated with me, let's talk about boundaries.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:00:48 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:00:49 Because, I mean, I feel like boundaries is at the heart of every human issue today.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:00:54 Mm.

Jay Shetty 1:00:54 In the sense of when we think about interpersonal dynamics, whether people are having issues with their friends, their family members, it's all boundaries based. And many of us are willing to break our boundaries because we care more about people pleasing, we care more aboutYou know, living up to everyone's expectations. We care more about everything else.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:01:16 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:01:16 And we think we have a boundary, we say we have a boundary, but we don't really keep up to it.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:01:21 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:01:21 So I'll give an example. I was talking to a friend the other day, and she said she wanted to, she only wanted to hang out if all of the friends were invited. And another one of her friends said, "No, I only wanna hang out with you."

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:01:38 Hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:01:39 And she was like, "Well, if we hang out, then everyone's gonna find out we hang out, and then they're gonna be upset that we hung out, so I think

Jay Shetty 1:01:45 we should invite everyone." And the other friend said, "No, I just wanna hang out with you and a couple of other friends, but I don't wanna invite everyone." So you had these two boundaries that were almost at odds with each other. One boundary was, we should always invite everyone because it makes everyone feel included, which almost was people-pleasing, not even a boundary. And the other boundary was, "No, I think it should just be a small group of us." And the person who wanted to invite everyone ultimately gave in and said, "No, okay, fine, we'll just have a small group of us."

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:02:11 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:02:11 Now, this is a very small example, but to me it's at the heart of all the problems that we have. It's like people being upset that people didn't invite them to their wedding.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:02:20 Hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:02:20 People being upset that they invited them but didn't give them an important role.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:02:24 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:02:24 People being upset that, uh, their family didn't prioritize their birthday. People being upset that they're always the ones organizing vacations and no one else does. Like, these are the real challenges in life that we're all going through every day.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:02:38 Hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:02:39 What do we do? How do we set boundaries that we actually stick to-

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:02:43 Hmm

Jay Shetty 1:02:43 ... and that we're okay with letting people down, it seems?

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:02:47 That sounds like in the case of your friends, the one that was wanting to invite everybody, the big people-pleaser part. And it might sound like the other one probably had a pretty clear bound-

Jay Shetty 1:02:55 Yeah

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:02:55 ... like, good boundaries. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:02:56 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:02:56 Um, good or bad. I mean, listen, boundaries are only good if they're lo- led by self.

Jay Shetty 1:03:00 Mm-hmm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:03:00 Because you could also be really like, "I've got all these boundaries," but that's a Protector too, right?

Jay Shetty 1:03:04 Mm-hmm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:03:04 So it, whether it's boundaries, whether it's, it's control, whether it's anxiety. Whatever the Protector is, if those parts of you are happening in extreme ways that are misaligned with that calm, clear, curious, compassionate, confident, courageous energy, then it's a Protector.

Jay Shetty 1:03:28 Hmm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:03:29 Then it's a Protector. It- it- it's, it's across the board. When it comes to boundaries, I find that the more we do whatever type of personal development or spiritual practice that we have, and the more we start to access self inside, the more precious we realize our energy is, the more connected we feel inside. So we begin to know, "I can't do that anymore." The more access to self that I have acquired, the easier it has been for me to be very boundaried with the people who work for me, and literally s- speak things that in the wrong tone could be very upsetting, but with the self energy are fine. So saying, "Nope, I won't do that anymore. That's not my thing." Or look at somebody in the eye and say, "Actually, that's your job. I want you to do that. That's no longer my job." I had a part for many years, Jay, that was, "If I don't, if they don't do it... If I don't do it, nobody else will."

Jay Shetty 1:04:25 Hmm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:04:25 That was the, that was a really big part. "If I don't do it, nobody else will." And that was lingering for up until maybe a year ago or less. It's really recent that it's been kinda out of my life. And not completely, but pretty much, pretty much.

Jay Shetty 1:04:36 Tell me about how you worked on that one, 'cause that's a great one.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:04:38 I just kept working with h- that part.

Jay Shetty 1:04:40 The four-step of-

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:04:40 That part was probably one of the parts I worked with most in my life. And it was really creating a lot of chaos because, one, it made me just to be the one that would take the burden of all of it and do all the work. Two, it wouldn't let people rise up. And three, it would put me in a position where I wasn't ever asking for what I wanted, and I did not have the clear boundaries around where I started and I ended.

Jay Shetty 1:05:00 Hmm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:05:00 And so burnout. And so I kept working with it and working with it and checking in with it and noticing it and witnessing it and bringing it to my IFS therapy and bringing it to my meditation practice and checking in with it. I checked in with it every single day for at least a year through my journaling. I literally wrote with it every single day for a year. And during COVID, I was working with it like crazy. So it's been maybe a decade of working, two decades of working with that part. But really heavily in the last year. And man, I have come out the other side. I'm literally looking at people, and I'm in a different nervous system. I'll look at somebody and I'll say, "Oh, no, no, no, that's your job. That's your job."

Jay Shetty 1:05:38 [laughs]

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:05:38 "That's not my job." Or, and I don't, I actually don't come across... I was probably much more of an asshole before-

Jay Shetty 1:05:44 Hmm

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:05:44 ... because I was d- doing it, and then mad that I was doing it, and then taking it out on them energetically, right? So now I'm just like, "Oh, no, no, no, you know, that, that's, that's your thing," or, "I'm gonna ask that you do this thing." This is my clear clarity and boundaries. You know, as a leader, as an entrepreneur, as someone who wants to be a leader in your home with your child, in your classroom, in your business, whatever it is that you do, y- this is the most important book you could read as a leader.

Jay Shetty 1:06:08 Hmm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:06:09 And I wish I... Actually, you know, it's easy for me to say that because it's based on Dick Schwartz's-

Jay Shetty 1:06:13 Yeah

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:06:13 ... work, right? So it's, it's this or any IFS practice work is the most important thing you could do as a leader, because Dick talks about self-led leaders.

Jay Shetty 1:06:22 Hmm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:06:22 We need to be showing up, particularly right now. What's happened is everyone out there, out there, it's all just, a, all lotta damaged parts-

Jay Shetty 1:06:33 Hmm. Un- unsure

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:06:34 ... all over the place.

Jay Shetty 1:06:35 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:06:35 This country is insanely divisive, all throughout the world. And that's just parts, parts chaos.

Jay Shetty 1:06:43 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:06:43 Chaos.

Jay Shetty 1:06:43 Yeah. We're leading through a knives out part, a-

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:06:47 Exactly

Jay Shetty 1:06:48 ... addicted part and an anxious part, whatever it may be.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:06:51 Think about the activists. They're, like, fighting, fighting, fighting. Look, that work is incredible. It's life-changing. It's necessary. But if we're in that constant place of fighting, that's another Protector.

Jay Shetty 1:07:03 Hmm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:07:03 So how can you lead and activate from a place of self? How can you come from that? It doesn't mean that you don't get angry. It doesn't mean that you don't have rage. You use it.

Jay Shetty 1:07:14 Mm-hmm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:07:15 You infuse the self energy into it.And it's, it's, it's really important right now.

Jay Shetty 1:07:20 Yeah. It's incredible. Gabby, I can't wait for people to read this book. Everyone, the book is called Self-Help-

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:07:27 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:07:27 ... This Is Your Chance to Change Your Life. Go and grab your copy if you haven't already. I love that this book actually has a practice within it. It's built around the practice, built around the therapy. So it's not a book that you're gonna read, it's a book that you're gonna live, and it's a book that you're gonna practice. And so I highly recommend if you appreciate our conversation today, that you go grab a copy. Gabby, we end every episode of On Purpose with a Final Five.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:07:49 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:07:50 And these questions have to be answered in one word to one sentence maximum.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:07:53 Oh, no. Okay.

Jay Shetty 1:07:54 So I'm gonna ask you these Final Five. Gabby Bernstein, these are your Final Five. Question number one: What is the best advice you've ever heard or received?

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:08:01 Hmm. Befriend the parts of yourself inside.

Jay Shetty 1:08:04 Yeah. I, I love ... I actually love that advice. It's, it's so ... Because as humans, we're so good at using something for, for when it's useful.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:08:13 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:08:13 And then as soon as it's not useful, we condemn it.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:08:15 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:08:16 So it's like, "Oh, yeah, I hate this job now." And it's like, well, no, this job paid-

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:08:20 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:08:20 ... for the last three years of your family, your life, everything.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:08:23 You learned all this.

Jay Shetty 1:08:23 Even if you didn't love it, don't hate on it. But we, we kinda use it and we hate it, and it's like, "Oh, I loved this partner, and now that things didn't work out, I hate them."

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:08:31 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:08:32 And it's like, well, no, no, no, like, you learned so much. And we don't only do that with jobs and people, we do that with ourselves, where, hey, there was this part of me that I hate now. And it's like, no, that part of you helped you survive college and kept you alive and-

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:08:46 I wanna speak to

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:08:47 that-

Jay Shetty 1:08:47 Yeah

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:08:47 ... before we end here.

Jay Shetty 1:08:48 Please.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:08:48 Because I, when I wrote ... I wrote this book, um, the year that I wrote this book, I was a fellow at a recovery center.

Jay Shetty 1:08:54 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:08:54 And every month I would go and teach, and there was about 100 new folks entering the treatment center the, each time I'd show up. So they'd maybe be one, two, three, four days sober. And I'd walk in the room and I was teaching this, I was practicing what I was writing about. And so I'd look at this group of people who are all v- literally at wit's end, I mean, who knows what kind of destruction. They're just two days into recovery. And I'd say to this group, "Well, listen, let me ask you, how many people in this room have experienced trauma?" And they'd all raise their hand.

Jay Shetty 1:09:23 Wow.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:09:24 And then I'd say, "And wouldn't it make sense that you would do whatever it took to put out the flames of that impermissible fear-

Jay Shetty 1:09:32 Mm-hmm

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:09:32 ... and experience?" And a lot of them would be like, "Okay, yeah, yeah, I get that."

Jay Shetty 1:09:37 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:09:37 And then I'd say, "Well, wouldn't it make sense that the addict had a purpose, that, that it's been working really hard to keep you safe?"

Jay Shetty 1:09:45 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:09:46 And, and, and, and I wanna really, really let people hear that, that the parts of yourself that you're the most ashamed of, that have caused the most chaos in your life, they've been working really hard to keep you safe.

Jay Shetty 1:09:58 Yeah. It's, it is so, so real. And if we were-

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:10:01 Yeah

Jay Shetty 1:10:01 ... able to get that way, you'd be so much more positive and, and healthy about what's possible in your life because-

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:10:08 And able to move forward because you could forgive yourself.

Jay Shetty 1:10:10 Yes. Yes. And able to move forward because you'd take all of that experience and learning and that energy onto the next.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:10:18 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:10:18 And you'd be willing to let go as well.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:10:21 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:10:21 Like, you could easily let go of that part, knowing that it's served its purpose, whereas sometimes we probably stay too long in parts that are no longer serving us.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:10:30 Their whole lives. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:10:31 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:10:31 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:10:32 Yeah. Uh, second question: What is the worst advice you've ever had or received?

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:10:38 [laughs] Stop doing YouTube and start blogging. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:10:42 [laughs] Did someone say that to you?

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:10:43 Yeah, like 10 years ago. It was the biggest mistake of my life. I'm rebuilding my YouTube now.

Jay Shetty 1:10:48 Oh, wow.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:10:49 It's-

Jay Shetty 1:10:49 Interesting.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:10:49 Like, sorry, that was, like, career advice, but it was-

Jay Shetty 1:10:51 Yeah, no, it's good

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:10:52 ... the worst advice of my life. I was like, "Where's, where's Jay Shetty when I needed him?" It sounds like the stupidest thing to answer, but it really might have been ... That wasn't the ... Was that the worst advice of my life?

Jay Shetty 1:11:00 No, it's, I get it.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:11:01 I mean, yeah, I think I, I, I, in this moment, it's the thing that's top of mind.

Jay Shetty 1:11:05 Yeah, yeah. It's, it's, uh ... I, I mean, I, I think there's-

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:11:10 Did you expect something more profound than that? [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:11:11 No, no, no. I love ... We, we sh- That's the whole point of the podcast is to be fully authentic, so.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:11:15 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:11:16 No, I, no, I'm, I'm reacting because I think what's really interesting is that there's a lot of people who say they're experts, but really the only people you can trust as experts are the people that are actually doing it.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:11:27 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:11:28 And I feel like there's a lot of bad advice. I, I see all the time, like, there'll be someone on Instagram saying, "This is what to do on Instagram."

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:11:35 Mm-hmm. Mm.

Jay Shetty 1:11:35 And someone will show it to me, my friend or something, saying, "Oh, Jay," r- and I'm like, check how many followers that person has.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:11:41 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:11:41 Check what their engagement is.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:11:43 Yeah. Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:11:43 Like, check how many comments they get.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:11:44 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:11:45 Don't trust them.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:11:46 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:11:46 Like, it's just someone saying something.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:11:48 Mm-hmm. And in the case-

Jay Shetty 1:11:48 And it sounds really convincing, and it sounds really well put, but they don't have the, they don't have the engagement or anything to follow it up, so.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:11:55 Yeah, exactly. And the thing, I think that, that, that was a bad choice for me because, and it was bad advice that I took, because for me, m- I'm, I'm an orator. I'm a rock and tour. I, I needed to be storytelling-

Jay Shetty 1:12:07 Yep

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:12:08 ... in, in, on, o- on Y- I guess YouTube really being-

Jay Shetty 1:12:11 Yeah

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:12:11 ... the greatest place.

Jay Shetty 1:12:11 You've always been on camera.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:12:11 As I'm looking at your YouTube plaque right there.

Jay Shetty 1:12:13 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:12:14 Um, so, so here I am. I'm rebuilding my YouTube now.

Jay Shetty 1:12:17 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:12:17 But then the other thing is, is, you know, forgive the advice that you took that was wrong and start again. Here I am. I'm, like, literally, like, I might as well be, like, a bro in Bushwick in, like, a studio apartment, like, hacking, you know, making my YouTube channel with all the packages, but I'm having fun with it.

Jay Shetty 1:12:31 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:12:31 And that, you know, that creative force is self.

Jay Shetty 1:12:34 Yeah. Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:12:35 So.

Jay Shetty 1:12:35 For sure.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:12:35 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:12:36 How do we do that pa- Like, that's, let's take that really practical thing. Like-

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:12:39 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 1:12:39 ... often we got bad advice. We took a wrong turn.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:12:42 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:12:43 A relationship took us off track. How do you use this to get over that? Because that is, like, one of those things that could just be a thorn forever-

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:12:54 Mm-hmm

Jay Shetty 1:12:54 ... that you're just like, "God, that person, if I didn't date them for three years, if I didn't take that advice, I wouldn't have wasted those six years of my life blogging." Whatever it is, how do we apply that to this?

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:13:03 Oh my God, I think I'm a master. I should write a book about this. I'm a master at self-forgiveness, and I think that I have been, because it's like a flip that I just switched for myself, particularly in my sobriety, where I had to just, just choose. I think that, that, that ch- it's a choice you make to carry the burdens of your past or to choose to step into what could be your opportunity in the moment.

Jay Shetty 1:13:30 Mm-hmm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:13:31 M- someone right now could have a quantum shift right here, right now. We could give them a quantum shift right here, right now. If they choose-

Jay Shetty 1:13:37 Mm

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:13:38 ... to start to say, "I forgive myself, I forgive myself," even if you just fake it till you make it, "I forgive myself," okay. And I, I like to kind of speak to myself like this, Jay. I'll, I'll do something that's kind of w- wobbly, maybe not the greatest thing, and I'll say, I'll talk like this. I'll go, "Okay, okay. We did that again. Okay, we did that again. How, who do I need, how do I need to clean it up? What do, what do I need to, who do I make amends to? W- who do I check, what, what part do I check in with?"

Jay Shetty 1:14:03 Mm-hmm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:14:03 "And then very quickly, how do I choose again?"

Jay Shetty 1:14:06 Mm, mm. Yeah. How do I choose again? That question shifts it completely. Because it was a choice. You had the power.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:14:13 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:14:13 You made a choice and, yeah, I thi- I agree. I mean, I've pivoted so many times in my career and my life and so many things, and it's, it's only been because I've followed self.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:14:24 Yes.

Jay Shetty 1:14:25 And, and that's where I know when I'm not living my best life is when I'm not following self.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:14:32 Totally.

Jay Shetty 1:14:32 And I think the challenge is that self can get very quiet for people, and you talk a lot about trusting yourself ultimately, and it's s- you can't trust yourself when you can't hear yourself, and you can't hear yourself because you haven't listened to yourself for so long.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:14:47 That's right.

Jay Shetty 1:14:48 And this book is helping you get back to that so that you're not making decisions based on rationale or logic or pros and cons lists, but you're actually having clarity from within, which is such a gift.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:15:02 And if you think about that, clarity from within.

Jay Shetty 1:15:04 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:15:05 Okay, so if you're struggling to change a relationship, this will guide you to that clarity. If you are struggling to forgive a past behavior that's been holding you back, this will help you release that behavior and start to connect to that clarity.

Jay Shetty 1:15:19 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:15:19 So that essence of accessing the energy that we need, we all, anyone listening wants to create in this lifetime.

Jay Shetty 1:15:28 Mm-hmm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:15:28 They have visions, they have dreams, they have desires. It's not about how often you say it. It's not about how many vision boards you create. It's not about how many affirmations you say. It's about how you relate to yourself inside.

Jay Shetty 1:15:44 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:15:45 Because you're always attracting who you are. You manifest and attract who you are.

Jay Shetty 1:15:49 Mm. Question number three, uh, what are you feeling really clear about right now?

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:15:56 Hmm. Very, very clear about YouTube. [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:16:00 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:16:00 Um, I'm really clear about where I want to put my energy.

Jay Shetty 1:16:05 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:16:06 And where I want to focus my energy.

Jay Shetty 1:16:09 I mean, what a great place to be.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:16:11 Mm-hmm.

Jay Shetty 1:16:11 Um, question number four: What's something you used to value that you no longer value?

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:16:16 Um, external validation. Big t- I mean, I value it. I- like you said earlier, I'm, I, it's, it's nice, but it was something that was very important for me.

Jay Shetty 1:16:23 Mm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:16:23 And it, I needed it, and I don't feel that way anymore.

Jay Shetty 1:16:26 Switched, yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:16:26 Yeah.

Jay Shetty 1:16:27 Uh, fifth and final question we ask this to every guest who's ever been on the show: If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:16:35 To get to know your parts. Yeah, heal, heal, heal on the inside. I actually do really believe that. I believe that if everyone was doing this type of work, that we would be living in a very different place.

Jay Shetty 1:16:45 Yeah. Because we wouldn't, we ... Yeah, because we wouldn't be throwing our wounds all over the place.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:16:49 We'd be s- help, self-help.

Jay Shetty 1:16:51 Yeah.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:16:51 We'd be helping ourselves. We'd be living, accessing more self. And what, really, the only way to change the, the frequency or change the, the, the trajectory that we're on is to actually, on an individual level, start to heal.

Jay Shetty 1:17:08 Mm-hmm.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:17:09 And in that inner healing, we start to lead in our own corners with that self-led energy, and it's community right now. I mean, this is what I've been channeling in my meditations. It's, it's getting inside, doing the inner work, and then bringing that self-led energy into your local community, and that will have a ripple effect.

Jay Shetty 1:17:26 Hmm. Everyone, the book, it's called Self-Help-This-Chance-Change-Your-Life. Gabby Bernstein. Go and follow her on YouTube-

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:17:33 [laughs]

Jay Shetty 1:17:33 ... on Instagram, on TikTok. Uh, subscribe to all of Gabby's channels so that you don't miss out, and please, please, please go and grab a copy of the book to do the work yourself, uh, to save yourself so much time, energy, money in the long term for your own good, the good of your family, your partner, whoever else may be in your life, your friends, your community. Uh, thank you again, Gabby, for coming on the show. It's great to have you back and have this conversation, and thank you. I'm so grateful for your work. Thank you.

Gabrielle Bernstein 1:18:01 I love you.

Jay Shetty 1:18:01 Thank you. I love you, too. Thanks, Gabby. If this is the year that you're trying to get creative, you're trying to build more, I need you to listen to this episode with Rick Rubin on how to break into your most creative self, how to use unconventional methods that lead to success, and the secret to genuinely loving what you do. If you're trying to find your passion and your lane, Rick Rubin's episode is the one for you.

Speaker 1:18:26 Just because I like it, that doesn't give it any value. Like, as an artist, if you like it, that's all of the value. That's, the success comes when you say, "I like this enough for other people to see it