Joe Rogan Experience #1104 - Boyan Slat

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   Three, two, one. Yes.…

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:02

      Three, two, one. Yes. Hello, Boyan.

   2. BSBoyan Slat0:07

      Hi, there.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:07

      Welcome.

   4. BSBoyan Slat0:08

      Thank you.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:09

      Thanks for doing this. I really appreciate it, and I love what you're doing. I've seen your TED Talk. I've seen many- in- numerous conferences that you've appeared at and-

   6. BSBoyan Slat0:17

      Oh.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:17

      ... discussions you've given on this. And for people to jump into this right now, what you've done is, uh, think long and hard and devise a method to try to clean up some of the plastic that we have floating around in the ocean, famously the Pacific garbage patch-

   8. BSBoyan Slat0:33

      Correct.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:34

      ... which is this enormous patch of garbage that's between California and Hawaii. How did you get involved in this, and what- what- what- you're a young guy. How old are you?

   10. BSBoyan Slat0:44

       Uh, 23 already. Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:45

       23 already? You sound like- oh, my God, I'm so old.

   12. BSBoyan Slat0:48

       It's getting old. Yeah. (laughs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:48

       Yeah. How old were you when you started this?

   14. BSBoyan Slat0:50

       Um, I- I think I started thinking about this when I was 16 and, uh, founded this organization when I was 18.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:56

       That's crazy. All you lazy fucks out there-

   16. BSBoyan Slat1:00

       (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:00

       ... that are 16 years old that aren't doing shit with your life, just think about this kid.

   18. BSBoyan Slat1:04

       (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:04

       That's amazing. I'm so happy there's people like you in the world.

   20. BSBoyan Slat1:07

       Oh, thank you. Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:08

       So you started thinking about it when you were 16. And, you know, this is something that is extremely disturbing to anybody that's paid attention, especially when you see the birds that have died with all these plastic bottle caps inside their bodies, and you know, you see their carcasses with these multicolored caps in them, and they- they thought these things were food. I mean, it's just one of the many, many, many problems that occur when you have plastic floating around in just enormous numbers in the ocean.

   22. BSBoyan Slat1:38

       Sure, yeah. I mean, there's really three problems with this plastic. First of all, obviously the ecosystem damage. I think there are around about 800 species that actually could go extinct because of this plastic pollution. Um, then there's the economic threat, uh, in terms of, um, you know, damage to fisheries, damage to tourism and things like that. I think it's around, uh, $13 billion a year according to the UN. And then thirdly, there's the health impact, or the potential health impact, because these tiny plastic pieces, they actually also end up in- in the fish we eat, uh, that take chemicals with it, and, uh, yeah, that ends up on our dinner plate as well.

   23. JRJoe Rogan2:15

       So, what was it that prompted you to- to dedicate- essentially dedicate your young life to this?

   24. BSBoyan Slat2:22

       Uh, sure. Yeah. So I've- I've always been very passionate about, uh, technology and just, uh, building things. I think sort of having an idea in your mind and then seeing that become reality and being able to touch it and things like that, I think, uh, there's literally no better feeling in the world than that. So I've- I've been building my own things since I was two years old, I think, um, first starting with things like tree houses and zip lines, but then going into sort of computers and explosives and rockets and things like that, which was a lot of fun, but it wasn't very, uh, useful, I would say. Um, so I was kind of looking for something sort of- um, something that real to- to- to work on a real problem. Um, and that's what I then came across when I was, uh, 16 years old. I was scuba diving in Greece, and I came across more plastic bags than fish, and I wondered, "Why can't we just clean this up?" And, uh, that question sort of s- kept, uh, circling around in my head, and, um, yeah, sort of thought about, well, how could we do this? The ocean is pretty big. Uh, and then eventually came up with this idea to- to use these natural ocean currents, uh, to- to basically let us collect the plastic.

   25. JRJoe Rogan3:26

       And so how- do you have m- many different prototypes that you started with and you eventually wound up with what you have now, and have you started implementing them yet?

   26. BSBoyan Slat3:36

       Oh, yeah. I mean, so the, um, the- the concept that was presented back in 2012 with my- uh, my first TEDx talk, um, and if you compare that to where we are right now, it's sort of day and night of a- of a difference. Um, so, um, yeah, through testing and through, uh, all these prototypings, um, yeah, obviously there has been, uh, a lot of development there. But the- the key idea has stayed the same, that instead of going after the plastic with- with boats and nets, which would take around about 79,000 years to- to clean up just this Great Pacific garbage patch, instead of doing that, we let the plastic come to us. So we use, uh, basically a network, uh, a fleet of very long floating barriers, which are oriented in a U-shape, and they float around, and they kind of act like a- a- a massive Pac-Man. So, um-

   27. JRJoe Rogan4:24

       (laughs)

   28. BSBoyan Slat4:24

       ... yes, like a- like a funnel, brings the plastic towards it. Uh, the natural ocean currents push it against it, moves towards the center, becomes very concentrated, and once it's concentrated, well, then it's easy to get it out and ship it to land for recycling.

   29. JRJoe Rogan4:37

       And has this started yet?

   30. BSBoyan Slat4:39

       Um, so the past, uh, so- so we were founded, um, yeah, around four years ago. Um, in that time, on one side we've did the- the reconnaissance, so we- we mapped the patch with 30 boats and an airplane at the same time to- to really understand how much is out there, which turns out to be 1.8 trillion pieces, uh, floating in this Great Pacific garbage patch. Uh, and on the other hand, we've done all the testing, so we've done, uh, hundreds of, uh, scale model tests, we've done prototypes back in Europe, uh, on the North Sea. Uh, and actually right now, we're- we're manufacturing the- the first, uh, real cleanup system, which, uh, is scheduled to be launched, uh, from San Francisco, uh, to the Great Pacific garbage patch in around two or three months' time.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   That's excellent. So you're…

   1. BSBoyan Slat15:00

      be able to launch the first line of products made out of sort of real, the real deal, the plastic actually coming out of the ocean.

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:06

      That's excellent. So you're gonna sell, like, raw plastic? And is there an issue of who owns the plastic? I mean, even 'cause it, 'cause it is in the commons of the, the ocean-

   3. BSBoyan Slat15:16

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:16

      ... in international waters.

   5. BSBoyan Slat15:18

      I think it'd be hilarious if somebody would, um, sort of raise their hand and say, "Oh, that's my plastic. I put it in there."

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:22

      (laughs)

   7. BSBoyan Slat15:23

      Um, I think then we have another kind of legal issue.

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:25

      Yeah.

   9. BSBoyan Slat15:25

      Um, but-

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:26

       But if it becomes a resource like oil, right?

   11. BSBoyan Slat15:29

       Yeah, yeah. I think there's some, um, there's, like, this, these salvage laws that say if, if you sort of salvage something-

   12. JRJoe Rogan15:35

       Right.

   13. BSBoyan Slat15:35

       ... from the international oceans, you can actually keep it. So, so that doesn't appear to be, um, a, a, an issue. Uh, but yeah, definitely it will be, uh, yeah, sort of closing the circle. It will be a fun project too.

   14. JRJoe Rogan15:48

       Yeah, I mean, it, it sounds, it sounds like an amazing thing, and I guarantee people would be very, very interested to buy things that they know were made out of something that was really a horrible side effect of civilization.

   15. BSBoyan Slat16:03

       Yeah, I think if you have the, the choice between a normal, um, I guess let's use the sunglass example again.

   16. JRJoe Rogan16:09

       Yeah.

   17. BSBoyan Slat16:09

       A normal pair or a pair coming out of the ocean, I think nine out of 10 people would choose the latter.

   18. JRJoe Rogan16:14

       Oh, for sure. I mean, I think it would be giant for companies too, to advertise that we only use 100% recycled from the ocean plastic.

   19. BSBoyan Slat16:22

       Exactly. Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan16:23

       I mean, that, that would be gigantic. Uh, how long do you think it would be before this could be a, a reality?

   21. BSBoyan Slat16:29

       Um, so the first system, uh, it's, it's currently being assembled. So we are renting a, uh, a former naval base in, at the San Francisco Bay where it's currently being put together. Uh, it's, uh, it's still a relatively small system. It's 2,000 feet in length, so eventually they'll be almost double the size. Uh, but this is, um, this one will be, uh, launched in pretty late June, early July. Uh, then we'll take it out. Uh, the first, the first deployment will not yet be directly in the patch, so we're just deploying it, uh, around 300 miles off the coast just to make sure that it works well, sort of a, a final rehearsal. If that goes well, then by probably around August, we should be ready to take it all the way to the patch. And, uh, hopefully soon after that, collect the first plastic. And then we hope to have the, the, the first shipment of first plastic, uh, back, back in port before the end of the year. And we think that will be, you know, such a symbolic moment for, for 60 years man has been putting plastic into the ocean, and from that moment onwards, we're also taking it back out again.

   22. JRJoe Rogan17:29

       That's amazing. And you, you feel like you can get 40% of the garbage patch in 10 years?

   23. BSBoyan Slat17:34

       Uh, it's actually f- so with, with a fleet of 60 of these cleanup systems, we should be able to clean up half this Great Pacific Garbage Patch every five years.

   24. JRJoe Rogan17:42

       Wow.

   25. BSBoyan Slat17:43

       Um, which of, of course more-

   26. JRJoe Rogan17:45

       That's incredible.

   27. BSBoyan Slat17:46

       Um, yeah, I mean, and you could do it faster-

   28. JRJoe Rogan17:48

       That's incredible.

   29. BSBoyan Slat17:48

       ... if you want more sy- if you put in more systems, of course.

   30. JRJoe Rogan17:50

       Where are you guys getting funding from?
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Yes. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan30:00

      Just cut it loose and, "Huh, it's gone."

   2. BSBoyan Slat30:02

      Yes.

   3. JRJoe Rogan30:03

      "It's in the ocean. No worries."

   4. BSBoyan Slat30:04

      Sure. So that's, I mean, that's a very obvious kind of impact. And then another thing that, that was also a study, uh, done by us recently, so we looked at the, um, the, the concentrations of plastic versus naturally occurring mal- marine life in this garbage patch, and then what we saw was that there is 180 times more plastic at the surface than sort of natural food for, for birds, and for turtles, and things like that. So you can imagine if you are a turtle at the, at the surface of this garbage patch and you sort of take a bite to, to eat, there is 180 times larger chance that you eat plastic rather than a piece of plankton, right?

   5. JRJoe Rogan30:42

      Right.

   6. BSBoyan Slat30:42

      So, um, and what we found was that this, this concentration is so high that it can actually have this, this chemical impact, uh, where, um, yeah, where these chemicals have a potential health impact on these organisms as well as, um, species further up the, the, the food, food web, uh, including us humans.

   7. JRJoe Rogan31:00

      So have we noticed that ... Have people been tested and shown to have ingested plastic that they've gotten through eating tuna or something like that?

   8. BSBoyan Slat31:11

      So th- the plastic itself isn't the thing that-

   9. JRJoe Rogan31:14

      The chemicals.

   10. BSBoyan Slat31:15

       Uh, yes.

   11. JRJoe Rogan31:15

       Yeah.

   12. BSBoyan Slat31:15

       So it's chemicals that attach to the plastic, and, um, and, uh, for example, what you see is that, uh, uh, for example, in Greenland, like, the, the native communities that really rely on fish, they have much higher cancer rates. They have, uh, much higher concentrations of, uh, mercury, uh, so other heavy metals as well is these persistent organic pollutants, these things that attach to the pre- to the plastic. Um-

   13. JRJoe Rogan31:39

       In Greenland?

   14. BSBoyan Slat31:40

       Yeah, like the, like these sort of, these native communities that rely on, uh, fish and, and other sea life to-

   15. JRJoe Rogan31:47

       So they're-

   16. BSBoyan Slat31:47

       ... to, to eat.

   17. JRJoe Rogan31:48

       This is a recent trend that they have higher rates of cancer?

   18. BSBoyan Slat31:51

       Um, yeah. Th- I don't know how recent it is, but, um, uh, probably in the past few decades I can imagine. But, uh, yeah, that's really linked to their, their marine, uh, the, the, their consumption of marine sources. Um-

   19. JRJoe Rogan32:04

       Oh. Wow.

   20. BSBoyan Slat32:04

       But, um, you know, obviously it's hard to say, well, how many percent of that is just-

   21. JRJoe Rogan32:08

       Heavy metals.

   22. BSBoyan Slat32:09

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan32:09

       You know?

   24. BSBoyan Slat32:09

       Versus, versus what's coming by plastic, but sure if you, um, yeah, if you look at the, the kind of chemicals and you look at the lab tests that they've done with that, those chemicals, yeah, they, they are not very good for you.

   25. JRJoe Rogan32:21

       Now, I've heard that if you leave a water bottle like this in your car and it gets hot out, that the water will, uh, pl- plastic will leach into the water. Is that correct?

   26. BSBoyan Slat32:32

       Yeah. So I think it, it depends on the kind of plastic that you have. Uh, I think with this, uh, you, probably the liner would contain like phthalates and, and things like that. So, um, yeah, I wouldn't do that. Um, so there's, you know, when you look at those chemicals you have, you have two kinds of things you should, I think, worry about. One is the chemicals that are actually in the plastic, and secondly there's these chemicals that just float around in the ocean and then, uh, can attach to the plastic, uh, when they, um-

   27. JRJoe Rogan33:00

       Mm-hmm.

   28. BSBoyan Slat33:00

       Yeah, because they sort of act like this chemical sponge. Uh, the plastic wants to repel water and those chemicals too, so they kind of act like a magnet towards each other. Um, and especially the latter one is, it's well studied and we see that a lot on the, on the, um, on the plastic. Uh, but the f- the, the former one, yeah, it, I mean, it's, it's even an issue here if, in your car, for example.

   29. JRJoe Rogan33:21

       It's an issue in your car? Like, how so?

   30. BSBoyan Slat33:23

       Yeah, well, if you leave it, like, in a hot car-
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Yeah. …

   1. BSBoyan Slat45:00

      to feedback and just trying many different things and seeing what works and what doesn't work, I've... Especially at the beginning, I've done, like, hundreds of things that didn't work. I've-

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:07

      Yeah.

   3. BSBoyan Slat45:08

      Uh, the first time I tried, uh, fundraising, I sent a cold email to 300 companies and asked, to ask for sponsorship, and I think one replied and said, "This is a h- a horrible idea. You should go back to school." Um, so, so that was a very-

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:22

      You should print that one.

   5. BSBoyan Slat45:23

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:23

      Put that one on your wall. (laughs)

   7. BSBoyan Slat45:24

      On your wall. (laughs) I, I will do that. That's a good idea. Um, so, so that was very successful. And then, you know, I, I tried crowdfunding and raised a few million bucks and, uh, allowed us to get started. So, um-

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:34

      Isn't that amazing?

   9. BSBoyan Slat45:35

      Yeah. So, it's just about sort of doing this trial and error. So, just like we developed a technology in a very iterative fashion, it's also about dis- developing yourself, I think, in a, in an iterative fashion and, and sort of just, just get started.

   10. JRJoe Rogan45:48

       Well, what my point being is that when someone like you does make something happen, and once you get the ball rolling, you can be a catalyst for so many other projects getting launched because-

   11. BSBoyan Slat45:59

       Sure.

   12. JRJoe Rogan45:59

       ... it's attached to you. Like, you are a person, like, you've got the fire.

   13. BSBoyan Slat46:04

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan46:04

       Okay. You've got the fire. So, you put the fire over here, now this fire will start. Here, let me bring an ember to this, this project. This can start. And it seems to me that getting that fire, getting that initial ember, is one of the most difficult aspects in creating any sort of-

   15. BSBoyan Slat46:19

       Hmm.

   16. JRJoe Rogan46:19

       ... technology in term- especially in terms of something so complex where you're e- extracting things that are potentially dangerous from the environment and creating a net positive effect and then using that plastic to recycle. There's so much good karma, uh, for lack of a better word, attached to something like that. And, and for a person like me, when I hear that your sunglasses are made from the Pacific Garbage Patch, I get excited. I'm like, "Ooh."

   17. BSBoyan Slat46:45

       Hmm.

   18. JRJoe Rogan46:45

       "Where can I buy these fucking sunglasses?"

   19. BSBoyan Slat46:47

       Next year.

   20. JRJoe Rogan46:47

       Yeah. Well-

   21. BSBoyan Slat46:48

       (laughs)

   22. JRJoe Rogan46:48

       ... I'll buy them. That, but that, that does get exciting to people.

   23. BSBoyan Slat46:51

       Sure.

   24. JRJoe Rogan46:52

       So, it seems to me that this excitement that you're bringing is contagious, and you could potentially use it to-

   25. BSBoyan Slat47:00

       Hmm.

   26. JRJoe Rogan47:00

       ... spread other ideas that could-

   27. BSBoyan Slat47:02

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan47:02

       ... also be environmentally positive.

   29. BSBoyan Slat47:05

       Yeah. Well, I, I certainly hope that other people will think about sort of what kind of The Ocean Cleanup can I build which isn't cleaning plastic from the ocean? So, so I hope people sort of already do that. Um, but yeah, I mean, it's a good, good point. I should sort of think about sort of what to do with these other ideas. Like, yeah, a few of them are sort of so excited about that I kind of want to do myself eventually. Uh, which would, yeah, not be in the next few years, but probably-

   30. JRJoe Rogan47:33

       Do you have like a long-
5. 1:00:00 – 1:13:15

   Right. …

   1. BSBoyan Slat1:00:00

      just safer when they crash, so-

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:01

      Right.

   3. BSBoyan Slat1:00:02

      ... I don't know how they-

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:02

      Yeah.

   5. BSBoyan Slat1:00:02

      ... compare the sistes- statistics, but, um, yeah. I'm, I'm, I'm very impressed too. It was fun trying it out.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:11

      Yeah, I'm impressed and I'm very hopeful. The only, my only concern, I had, uh, my friend Matt Farah was on last week, and he's a, uh, car expert.

   7. BSBoyan Slat1:00:18

      Mm-hmm.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:18

      And they've actually started an organization to save human driving. They're, they're literally-

   9. BSBoyan Slat1:00:23

      (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:00:23

       ... going to be like lobbyists to, to-

   11. BSBoyan Slat1:00:26

       Sure. Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:00:27

       ... you know, stop laws.

   13. BSBoyan Slat1:00:28

       Have to be careful it doesn't get banned, right?

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:00:29

       Yeah, well that's the, the concern.

   15. BSBoyan Slat1:00:31

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:00:31

       Is that one day they're gonna say, "You cannot drive your own car."

   17. BSBoyan Slat1:00:34

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:00:34

       And they're really worried that the ... What was the name of his organization? Do you remember?

   19. BSBoyan Slat1:00:38

       ... about something else.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:00:40

       Okay. So, but the, the, you know, they're very serious. He's like, "It's going to happen quicker than you think. You're going, it's going to be very difficult to drive your own car-"

   21. BSBoyan Slat1:00:49

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:00:49

       ... "and then it's going to be illegal."

   23. BSBoyan Slat1:00:51

       Yeah. Maybe they should keep areas like the Highway 1 or things like that.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:00:55

       It's just something, some freaky road-

   25. BSBoyan Slat1:00:56

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:00:56

       ... where people can get crazy, "Look at me, man, I'm steering." (laughs)

   27. BSBoyan Slat1:01:00

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:01:00

       "I'm hitting my own brakes, whoo!"

   29. BSBoyan Slat1:01:02

       Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:01:02

       Yeah, I mean, again, these are things that... It's most likely inevitable. I mean, this, this technology, the way it's progressing, it's going to be safer, it's going to be healthier, lower emissions. All these variables-

Episode duration: 1:14:32