Joe Rogan Experience #1108 - Peter Attia

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   Four, three, two, one.…

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:02

      Four, three, two, one. (claps) Hello, Peter.

   2. PAPeter Attia0:07

      Hello, Joe.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:07

      What's going on, man?

   4. PAPeter Attia0:09

      A lot.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:10

      You were just telling me something that wa- is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard, that you swam from Maui to Lanai.

   6. PAPeter Attia0:18

      Right.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:18

      And you're the one- only human to ever do that.

   8. PAPeter Attia0:21

      I'm told I was the first person to swim from Maui to Lanai and back.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:26

      Oh.

   10. PAPeter Attia0:26

       The- the one-way is a pretty famous swim race that's done every year.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:30

       You're the first person to do it-

   12. PAPeter Attia0:31

       The round trip.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:31

       ... and go back? Fuck, dude. Why'd you do that? (laughs)

   14. PAPeter Attia0:36

       How long you got?

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:37

       (laughs)

   16. PAPeter Attia0:37

       (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:38

       "It started when I was a boy. They told me I couldn't do it."

   18. PAPeter Attia0:40

       (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:42

       (laughs) What- what made you wanna do that? It's a ridiculous proposition.

   20. PAPeter Attia0:46

       Um, so I got into ... I decided in ... (laughs) This is gonna sound silly. I read a book in January of 2004 about this woman named Penny Dean who, uh, still to this day holds the record for the fastest crossing of the Catalina Channel, so swimming from Catalina Island to San Pedro or, uh, or, uh, to, uh ... Not, you typically swim to Point- Point Vicente. And she had done it in, like, seven hours and 20 minutes, and I was like, "That's amazing. I want-"

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:14

       How far is that?

   22. PAPeter Attia1:16

       As the crow flies, it's 21 miles.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:18

       Whoo.

   24. PAPeter Attia1:18

       With the currents it's a little longer. And I was like, "You know, I really wanna do this, um, but I- I gotta learn how to swim first." That seems-

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:26

       So that's three miles an hour swimming?

   26. PAPeter Attia1:28

       She is a phenom. Penny Dean had a stroke rate of 90 strokes per minute, which, I mean, I know that might not mean anything to someone who doesn't swim, but like, to turn, to have a hand hit the water every, you know, third of a, two thirds of a second is a remarkable pace.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:45

       That's insane.

   28. PAPeter Attia1:45

       Yeah, I- I can't hold a cadence of that for 100 yards.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:49

       Wow. And she did it for 20 miles?

   30. PAPeter Attia1:52

       Yeah.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Right. …

   1. PAPeter Attia15:00

      swim from Santa Rosa to Santa Barbara. So Santa Rosa Island, which is the second furthest north Channel Island, you've got San Miguel, Santa Rosa, Santa Cruz and Anacapa represent the top four Channel Islands. So we did this November swim, it was nighttime thing again, swimming from Santa Rosa Island to Santa Barbara. And, uh, at about 5:00 in the morning, maybe 6:00 in the morning you're just starting to get enough light where you can see and you're out there so you really have amazing visibility. And I looked down probably 40 feet and I see this enormous thing swimming like this, which is how sharks swim. And I see the dorsal fin in the position that freaks me out and the tail's this way. All of that is shark.

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:45

      Right.

   3. PAPeter Attia15:47

      And I like, you know, poof, like lift up out of the water, kind of hyperventilate for a second and I'm thinking to myself, "All right. You gotta make a judgment call here. If that's really a great white, you probably oughta get out of the water." But if you, the moment you're out of the water, that's it, the swim is over. Like you just spent like months doing this, like it's done.

   4. JRJoe Rogan16:04

      Right.

   5. PAPeter Attia16:05

      So then I convince myself, and I think I'm right, I think it was a dolphin on its side. Because a dolphin on its side would, its fin would, its tailfin would be the same way and it could swim that way. So in the end I just kept swimming, but I mean that scared the shit out of me.

   6. JRJoe Rogan16:18

      Well, they have seen quite a few of them off the coast of Malibu. There's, uh, some-

   7. PAPeter Attia16:22

      Oh, there's tons.

   8. JRJoe Rogan16:23

      Yeah.

   9. PAPeter Attia16:23

      There's no question. The, like they're, they're, they are way more plentiful than we realize.

   10. JRJoe Rogan16:28

       (laughs)

   11. PAPeter Attia16:28

       And all you gotta do is talk to the fishermen. Like the fishermen-

   12. JRJoe Rogan16:30

       Okay. (laughs)

   13. PAPeter Attia16:30

       ... will tell you. They're like-

   14. JRJoe Rogan16:32

       Cool.

   15. PAPeter Attia16:32

       You know, like off Coronado? I mean, it's like there's nonstop great whites.

   16. JRJoe Rogan16:36

       Really?

   17. PAPeter Attia16:36

       Oh, yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan16:38

       Why are you freaking me out, Peter?

   19. PAPeter Attia16:41

       (laughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan16:41

       (laughs)

   21. PAPeter Attia16:42

       The good news is they see us all the time and most of the time they realize we're not what they want.

   22. JRJoe Rogan16:47

       Yeah, they want seals, right?

   23. PAPeter Attia16:48

       Yeah, yeah. The, the, the ... Whenever they attack us, they're making a mistake.

   24. JRJoe Rogan16:52

       Now is there a s- like a suit you can wear, like a Kevlar suit protect- protects you from getting bitten in half?

   25. PAPeter Attia16:58

       (laughs) No, but this is so funny you bring this up. I became obsessed with this thing called the, uh ... Oh, what was it called? Christ. You, you, you put the thing on your ankle, like you had like a little Velcro thing and you'd wrap it on your ankle and it had a tail. Like this long, you know, like four-foot-long thing and it was charged. And it sends out an electrical impulse that, um, disturbs the shit out of the sharks. The shark's nose is an organ that senses electricity. So when a shark ... Like the, it could be pitch black, it could be soot water and they can still scope you m- you know, from hundreds of yards away based on the electrical activity of your heart. And that organ is their nose. So this little thing, I forget what it was called, like the shark taser or some shit. It puts out a signal that like tazes them and they don't wanna get within like-

   26. JRJoe Rogan17:48

       Oh, there it is. James got it up here.

   27. PAPeter Attia17:50

       What's it called?

   28. JRJoe Rogan17:50

       "The world's first shark deterrent band. It's called the Shark Bandz."

   29. PAPeter Attia17:54

       Ah, the sh-

   30. JRJoe Rogan17:55

       "Worn on the wrist or ankle." Is this it?
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   (laughs) Is he eating…

   1. JRJoe Rogan30:00

      they hunt them in Arizona.

   2. PAPeter Attia30:02

      (laughs) Is he eating nachos?

   3. JRJoe Rogan30:04

      Yeah.

   4. PAPeter Attia30:04

      (laughs) Oh, God.

   5. JRJoe Rogan30:05

      I mean, after seeing this, it's just like, "I don't think I can hunt that." I'd have to be pretty hungry to eat one of those. They're so cute, a little face.

   6. PAPeter Attia30:14

      (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan30:15

      Weird little animal, man.

   8. PAPeter Attia30:17

      Really interesting.

   9. JRJoe Rogan30:18

      Yeah. Our relationship with animals is very odd when they get into close proximity.

   10. PAPeter Attia30:22

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan30:23

       Yeah.

   12. PAPeter Attia30:24

       We, we've got a wicked coyote problem in San Diego, and at least in the part I live in and-... you know, it's just one of those things. Once we got rid of mountain lions, 'cause no one wants mountain lions around, the coyotes run amok.

   13. JRJoe Rogan30:36

       Is that what it is?

   14. PAPeter Attia30:38

       I think ... I mean, I was talking to a friend of mine about this the other day actually. And, and he was saying that there's probably only ... Like in our neighborhood, there's probably only like two mountain lions left. And the, the coyotes just ... They've exploded. There, there are so many of them around. Like ... A- and yeah, it doesn't really bother me that much. I mean, I actually kind of like listening to them howl, but you know, if you ... If they get into your chicken coop ...

   15. JRJoe Rogan31:02

       Yeah, I had one kill chickens just a few weeks ago.

   16. PAPeter Attia31:04

       Yeah, yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan31:06

       (coughs) Um, I have, uh, got video of a dead chicken. It's such a bummer, man. We chased it away. It was on the roof of the chicken coop. The way they jump is so stunning. Like they're so graceful. Like I, I've never seen anything that moves like that in the wild, the way a coyote does. They ... The- there was a six-foot fence, it's on the ground, it jumps to the top of the six-foot fence almost like it's, it's under different gravity rules than us.

   18. PAPeter Attia31:33

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan31:33

       And touches the top of the fence, and then boom, it's on the top of the chicken coop. I mean, in like a second, like doink, doink.

   20. PAPeter Attia31:38

       Wow, I haven't seen that. That would be, yeah, man.

   21. JRJoe Rogan31:41

       It's c- it's crazy. I have video of one of them jumping my fence. Um, I caught one of them with a chicken in his mouth jumping the fence. Jumped a six-foot fence with a chicken in his mouth, just jumped, boing, t- touched the top of the fence with his front paws, back paws went over right behind it, and it was gone. It's crazy. Um, but you know, look, they ... We need them. We need them to kill the rabbits and the rats. And if we didn't, we'd have a giant ... Like here's the place-

   22. PAPeter Attia32:05

       Well, that's what I tell my daughter 'cause she, she, like gets all stressed out that there's coyotes in our ... walking around our house. And I was like, "Well, first of all, they're pretty skittish of us. And boy, they keep those rodents under control."

   23. JRJoe Rogan32:15

       They really do. You need them for that. But there's a coyote problem across the country. They're the only animal that's in every single state and every single city now.

   24. PAPeter Attia32:23

       Hmm.

   25. JRJoe Rogan32:24

       Every single city. There's, there's coyotes in Manhattan.

   26. PAPeter Attia32:28

       (laughs) Come on.

   27. JRJoe Rogan32:29

       I'm not bullshitting.

   28. PAPeter Attia32:30

       Wh- in the park?

   29. JRJoe Rogan32:31

       They found them in the park, they found them in the Bronx, they found them in abandoned buildings. Yeah, there's a great book I read called Coyote America by a past guest of the podcast-

   30. PAPeter Attia32:41

       All right.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Mm-hmm. …

   1. PAPeter Attia45:00

      wow, if you're taking a perfect shot, like, it's all (laughs) in the rhomboids, you know?

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:04

      Mm-hmm.

   3. PAPeter Attia45:04

      It's all back here and you've gotta be able to do, as you said, you've gotta completely be able to eliminate any anticipation, any of this business. And-

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:13

      Yeah.

   5. PAPeter Attia45:14

      And so I think that ... I, I think of archery for me as almost like a meditation. Like, if you re- ... Like, I'm talking in the way, like, Sam Harris would talk about sort of consciousness and the way you are so hyper-aware of what you're doing that, yes, you can daydream and your mind can wander, but if you actually start to imagine the sensations of every part of archery, in many ways it feels like meditating.

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:36

      Mm-hmm.

   7. PAPeter Attia45:36

      So I think that's why I'm just, like ... You know? And I never really thought about it with shooting a rifle, um, 'cause I don't have much experience with guns, but I'm guessing it's, it's very similar. But as you said, like, the, the, the difference between the good and the great in that is less obvious, you know, at a distance.

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:55

      Yeah. I think, uh, offhand, shooting a rifle and shooting a bow, I bet, I bet I'm just as accurate at 60 yards as the average person is. Not a sniper, but the average person with a rifle. You can be pretty fucking accurate. You n- you can't off a bench. So there's, there's some similarities. There's, like ... There's a similarity to having the ... You have to have perfect technique, you have to have the right stance, you have to make sure that, you know, everything's locked in and your, your structure is correct. But I, I agree with you that I think it's some sort of a meditation. I also think there's something to hitting a target that is in our DNA that's connected to hunting, that's connected to survival, that's connected to, I mean, the thousands of years that people threw arrows and fucking ... What are that, what is that thing called? What's that thing called that they ... Atlatl thing? Yeah. Is that how you say it? Atlatl, right? Yeah. That, that ... You know what I'm talking about?

   9. PAPeter Attia46:55

      Yeah, yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan46:56

       Yeah, yeah. That's like a, an advanced spear throwing thing.

   11. PAPeter Attia46:58

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan46:58

       And then archery, and just ... I think when a person would hit a deer, they knew their tribe was going to eat.

   13. PAPeter Attia47:06

       Right.

   14. JRJoe Rogan47:07

       And so there's this, like, charge. And you get a small amount of that juice when you hit a target.

   15. PAPeter Attia47:12

       Yeah, no. I'm, I'm sure there- there's ... I'm, I ... If ... There's gotta be dopamine that's being secreted when you-

   16. JRJoe Rogan47:17

       Yeah. 100%.

   17. PAPeter Attia47:17

       ... when you, when you do that. It's the greatest feeling in the world actually.

   18. JRJoe Rogan47:19

       Yeah but does it ... It's a, it should make sense. Like, when you're looking at someone doing it, you're like, "Why do you give a fuck if that arrow goes in there?"

   19. PAPeter Attia47:25

       (laughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan47:25

       It doesn't make any sense.

   21. PAPeter Attia47:26

       (laughs) Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan47:26

       Like, why does it make s- But it ... There's a fucking sa- Like, Jamie laughs at me 'cause I'll hit the bullseye from 45 yards and I'm like, "Yes." It's like, you get this little, "Woo." You get a little, little burst, man.

   23. PAPeter Attia47:39

       I just like the whole experience. Even the sound.

   24. JRJoe Rogan47:41

       Yeah.

   25. PAPeter Attia47:41

       So sometimes, like, when my veins get holes in them, like sometimes you put a broadhead through, or, or you put, like, a field tip through another one.

   26. JRJoe Rogan47:47

       Mm-hmm.

   27. PAPeter Attia47:48

       And now, obviously, sometimes if you trash the vein the arrow doesn't work, but, like, usually just a single hole in a vein will produce a sound that is the greatest sound you've ever heard when that arrow leaves.

   28. JRJoe Rogan47:58

       The whistle?

   29. PAPeter Attia47:59

       Yeah. Oh, I love it.

   30. JRJoe Rogan48:01

       Yeah. (whistles)
5. 1:00:00 – 1:11:41

   And that is, uh,…

   1. PAPeter Attia1:00:00

      there's this, like, never-ending cycle of having this insulin spike and then this crash. Yeah.

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:05

      And that is, uh, that's from carbohydrates. It's from refined carbohydrates and, you know, having too much fucking sugar in your body, and everybody does it. It's like, look around.

   3. PAPeter Attia1:00:15

      All right. So, so this'll be funny for your ... So, so google my name and just put like Peter Attia fat. And, um, you'll, you're, you're gonna see a picture of me when I was a swimmer. 'Cause all this time we were talking about me swimming, you, you're assuming like I'm a fit dude. I was a fit but fat dude.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:31

      Fit but fat.

   5. PAPeter Attia1:00:31

      Fit but totally fat. And this was-

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:33

      What were you eating?

   7. PAPeter Attia1:00:34

      Oh, non-stop carbs. Look, there, there I am. See on the left there.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:38

      Well, I wouldn't say you were fat.

   9. PAPeter Attia1:00:39

      Do-

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:00:39

       I would say you got, you got a little paunch on you.

   11. PAPeter Attia1:00:42

       I don't know. Wait, wait, there's another picture, uh, after I swam, oh, across Lake Tahoe. Go to that, uh, that one right there. Yeah. So-

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:00:50

       Got a little gut there, fella.

   13. PAPeter Attia1:00:51

       Yeah, I don't know.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:00:52

       Looks like you're boozing it up.

   15. PAPeter Attia1:00:53

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:00:53

       But it's also the way you're sitting down.

   17. PAPeter Attia1:00:55

       No, no, no.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:00:55

       Like, if you stood up and sucked it in for a picture on Instagram, might look okay. (laughs)

   19. PAPeter Attia1:01:00

       (laughs) Oh, no. I, I was definitely, you know, probably, what, uh, maybe 30 pounds heavier.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:01:05

       Wow.

   21. PAPeter Attia1:01:05

       But, but bo- you know, body fat was much greater. And-

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:01:07

       And what were you eating?

   23. PAPeter Attia1:01:08

       Oh, I mean-... I probably went through three or four bottles of Powerade a day-

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:01:12

       Yeah.

   25. PAPeter Attia1:01:12

       ... 'cause you know, you're training all day.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:01:14

       Right.

   27. PAPeter Attia1:01:14

       And, you know, every post-workout was a carb refeed.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:01:18

       Mm-hmm.

   29. PAPeter Attia1:01:19

       And so you're in sort of this vicious, glycogen-dependent state.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:01:22

       Yeah. And people that d- d- I mean, it's, it's crazy that there's so many folks out there that are living their life that don't even understand that this is a process they're going through. They just think this is eating and exercise, this is what happens, but it's not. Your body li- if you shut it, cut that off, push it away, enter into a completely different food source, just change the way you, you eat, your body will change. And that, that, just that concept, the people, "That sounds like horse shit." It sounds like, "What are you saying? Are you, you're, what are you offering some miracle cure? You're offering..." (laughs)

Episode duration: 2:51:39