Joe Rogan Experience #1115 - Mike Baker

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   Five, four, three, two,…

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:01

      Five, four, three, two, one. (claps hands) Mike Baker, ladies and gentlemen, and we're live.

   2. MBMike Baker0:08

      Ladies and gentlemen.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:08

      What's going on, buddy?

   4. MBMike Baker0:10

      Yeah, the usual. Uh, yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:11

      You hiding from wolves over here? Is that why you're here?

   6. MBMike Baker0:13

      Uh, we- that's right, that's right. Uh, yeah, I- I left-

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      (laughs)

   8. MBMike Baker0:15

      ... the state of Idaho because, because we're overrun with wolves. Wolves and-and, uh, and that's it. Yeah, that's all we got. Uh-

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:20

      Well, I was just listening to a podcast where these guys were talking about wolves and about how they were hiking and they found four dead, mature bull elk inside of, like, a, a couple mile stretch that had been torn apart by wolves, and they started to freak out. (laughs)

   10. MBMike Baker0:39

       (laughs) Well, I mean, I- I- w- uh, two things we got this time of year. We got a lotta wolves and we got a lot of rattlesnakes, and rattlesnakes are starting to, you know, pop up and make their appearances.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:45

       Is it getting a little warm?

   12. MBMike Baker0:46

       Yeah, exactly. And, um, there are some seasons where y- uh, you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a, a, a rattlesnake.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:53

       Really?

   14. MBMike Baker0:53

       And, of course, if you swing at that cat, a wolf will show up. (laughs) So-

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:56

       (laughs)

   16. MBMike Baker0:56

       ... that's not a good idea in case anybody's wondering. Uh-

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:58

       I've never been. I'm going June 30th to Boise. I just, uh, announced the tickets today and I-

   18. MBMike Baker1:03

       And it's fantastic.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:04

       I'm, I'm excited to be there, but I've, I, I keep hearing about wolves. Is that a real issue up there or is people-

   20. MBMike Baker1:09

       Well, not at, not at-

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:09

       ... just exaggerating?

   22. MBMike Baker1:10

       ... not at the Century Link arena. It won't be a problem.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:12

       (laughs)

   24. MBMike Baker1:13

       So, you should be safe from that. Um, but, uh, yeah, bring your gear and, you know, I- it's, it's, Idaho's an interesting place because (sighs) you know, it's a part-time legislature, right? So, which is the way I think all states should operate, um, a- which means everybody goes home to their jobs. Well, if you just, if you look at the top of the state, the governor, uh, Butch Otter, great guy. Brad Little, lieutenant governor, terrific guy. They're both ranchers, right? So-

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:36

       Full-time?

   26. MBMike Baker1:37

       Full-ti- well, yeah, basically. Um-

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:39

       Wow.

   28. MBMike Baker1:39

       ... and, uh, they, they look at it from a different problem, you know, a, a, a perspective, right? So-

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:44

       Right.

   30. MBMike Baker1:45

       ... you know, here in California, you know, if you say you got a wolf problem, I mean, that, that raises, you know, one perspective and one issue and, and-
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   I think there's a…

   1. MBMike Baker15:00

      um, so I, I think it's ... Anyway, I, I think there's a, there's a danger to that line of questioning where they kept talking about how, how did it ... how did you feel about it. And it's not y- y- you're, you're ... they're, they're mixing this, and I ... I'm not eloquent enough to explain it, but I found it fascinating that that was a question they wanted to focus on.

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:19

      I think there's a real danger to people or f- for people that don't have any experience in actual war and ... or really understand combat or really understand w- what can happen and what can go wrong in talking about it with the same sort of language that you would use to describe office politics.

   3. MBMike Baker15:41

      Yes. Yes. Uh, they got to see ... that's what I ... (laughs) dammit, that's what I was trying to say. Um-

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:45

      You know, like, how do you feel?

   5. MBMike Baker15:47

      (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:47

      How do you feel about this? We don't want a bad work environment. Should we torture?

   7. MBMike Baker15:50

      Right.

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:51

      No, we, we want to save lives, but we don't want this guy to feel bad.

   9. MBMike Baker15:54

      We don't want him to feel bad and ... I mean, look, there was actually this, uh, this ... I ... some people were entertaining the idea that, you know, Khalid Sheik Mohammed would come out and, and, you know, talk, uh, to the senators, uh, you know, as, you know, going through this confirmation process about what? About his-

   10. JRJoe Rogan16:08

       Well, explain who he is.

   11. MBMike Baker16:09

       ... feelings. Well, Khalid Sheik Mohammed was the mastermind of 9/11.

   12. JRJoe Rogan16:12

       And he, he actually requested to-

   13. MBMike Baker16:14

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan16:14

       ... to talk a- about her.

   15. MBMike Baker16:16

       Right. And about, about his-

   16. JRJoe Rogan16:18

       Torture.

   17. MBMike Baker16:18

       I guess he just wanted to reflect on, you know, the whole ... the, the-

   18. JRJoe Rogan16:21

       Yeah.

   19. MBMike Baker16:21

       ... you know, from his perspective.

   20. JRJoe Rogan16:23

       And isn't he still locked up?

   21. MBMike Baker16:24

       Yeah, he's still-

   22. JRJoe Rogan16:25

       Is he still in Guantanamo Bay?

   23. MBMike Baker16:26

       Yeah. You know, God forbid he should rot in jail. But, um, you know, I think it's ... and it's kind of where we've ... it's sort of where we've come to. And I think in part, again, because there's distance, right? There's time.

   24. JRJoe Rogan16:35

       Yes.

   25. MBMike Baker16:36

       And so anyway, I, I ... she should ... again, she should be confirmed. Um, the, the whole rendition/interrogation program was reviewed ad nauseam, thousands of pages written. And interestingly enough, a lot of the people up there on the Hill right now in this confirmation process, the senators who are saying that they need to know more, are the same ones who were there before. So theoretically, either they didn't read all the material that was given to them about this or they've forgotten it, or they're, you know, th- or in reality this is more about Trump than it is about her.

   26. JRJoe Rogan17:06

       Mm.

   27. MBMike Baker17:06

       Which, you know, I'm ... I don't want to be shocking anyone by saying that perhaps there's political grandstanding going on. Uh-

   28. JRJoe Rogan17:13

       No way.

   29. MBMike Baker17:13

       ... but she is eminently qualified. (laughs) I know.

   30. JRJoe Rogan17:15

       That never happens.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Right. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan30:00

      get into companies.

   2. MBMike Baker30:02

      Right.

   3. JRJoe Rogan30:02

      And spy on the companies. And this is one of the pieces of speculation that I read about was that they had certain servers that were sending an exorbitant amount of information, uh, out.... and they, they were trying to figure out what was going on with them.

   4. MBMike Baker30:15

      Mm-hmm.

   5. JRJoe Rogan30:15

      And that- that there was, like, an excessive amount of information that was le- ex- uh, data that was leaving the servers versus coming in. And they're like, "This really seems like some fucked up shit's going on with this."

   6. MBMike Baker30:26

      Right, right. I mean, Huawei... First of all, Huawei's already present here in the country.

   7. JRJoe Rogan30:30

      Right.

   8. MBMike Baker30:30

      They manufacture a lot of things besides phones, and so they've already got a, a pretty big footprint in this country and, and, and with our allies as well. Um, so, uh, I mean, I think it's smart to consider the, the nature of a particular regime or government, you know, when you're, um, talking about the potential for their products to enter into, um, the commercial sector where they may have access. Because if, if they've shown a pattern of activity for acquiring intellectual property, which is again a very delicate way to put it, then I don't think it's a stretch to say we should be concerned by their efforts to put, um, communications gear, even if it seems pedestrian at the outset, uh, into the marketplace. So I, I'm, I'm not sure that I'm, I'm buying the idea that it's some nefarious plan to shut out Huawei so that they, they don't get a, a foothold in the phone business. Um, no. Oh, and I say that because I've been, you know, 30 years I've been, you know, dealing with the Chinese, uh, in terms of their, uh, efforts to acquire information, both in the government and commercial side of things. So, uh, I come at it from a very cynical point of view. Uh, much like I do with the Iranian issue and, and the likelihood that they have not (laughs) been living up to, you know, their, their part of the bargain. Um, and people will say, well... Again, I go back to the same thing. "Well, but we've been inspecting and they've been complying with all of that." Well, yeah, you know, w- uh, this limited amount of inspection that we have to their civilian sites. It isn't a, it's, it's, it's not a secret, you know, at this point, it shouldn't be a secret, that, again, we have no access to their military facilities. So, um, I, I tend to look at things in that view and I, and I, uh, if I see a pattern of activity, uh, I'm, I'm very reluctant to think they're somehow going to stop that pattern of activity for whatever reason.

   9. JRJoe Rogan32:26

      Right.

   10. MBMike Baker32:26

       So again, North Korea, same thing. The problem with all of this, North Korea, Iran, Syria and chemical weapons, the problem with all of that... I realize I'm kinda jumping around and I've just, uh, uh, uh, Huawei's over here, but is, uh, uh, the verification issue. It's always the, the weak link in any, uh, type of agreement related to, uh, containing a weapons program is verification. And we know that. We, you know, it's something we should know anyway. We keep... We seem to keep forgetting it. So, um, unless we can lock that down with the North Koreans, then, you know, a deal with them or a deal with the Iranians or a deal with the Syrians over their chemical weapons efforts, and it- it's, it's, it's not worth anything. So that's, that's where you're gonna focus has to be. And for whatever reason, the previous administration was keen to get this deal done and they were willing to set aside this issue of all the military sites, set aside the issue of ballistic missiles... And by the way, the deal that the president has just scuttled did nothing to, uh, impact or affect or tamp down or moderate their behavior. They've got more influence in the Middle East than they've had ever before. They're engaged in more, uh, activity related to, uh, you know, uh, the, the countries in the Middle East against our interests, uh, than they have been in, in, in decades. So, uh, that, that all by itself should tell us, well... (laughs) You know, I'm not saying that they're using all the money we gave them to, uh, support, you know, uh, actions against our interests by Hezbollah or by, uh, uh, the Revolutionary Guard or others, but they are. And so-

   11. JRJoe Rogan34:00

       Mm-hmm.

   12. MBMike Baker34:00

       ... you know, I, I, again, I'm, I don't have a lot of angst over the idea that we, we step away from the deal for a period of time. Maybe we can come up with something better. Um, and we should. We should always keep democ- uh, diplomacy open. Always have a channel of communications. That's important. Keep doing that. But be pragmatic and realistic about what you got, and right now we don't, we don't have that much.

   13. JRJoe Rogan34:19

       And don't buy Huawei phones.

   14. MBMike Baker34:20

       And don't... Well, I would.

   15. JRJoe Rogan34:21

       They make a great phone.

   16. MBMike Baker34:21

       Interesting enough... You know what? That actually came up... I know they make a great phone.

   17. JRJoe Rogan34:25

       (laughs)

   18. MBMike Baker34:25

       Uh, but that came up in that... in the CIA confirmation hearing.

   19. JRJoe Rogan34:27

       Oh, really?

   20. MBMike Baker34:28

       Yeah. They literally said, um... I forget which senator it was, asked Gina Haspel about Huawei and ZTE. And, um, I don't know where they were going with it, but then it devolved into just trying to get as all those Senate confirmation questions do, it just comes... uh, you know, the senator saying, "Well, I just want a yes or a no answer." You know, like-

   21. JRJoe Rogan34:46

       Huh.

   22. MBMike Baker34:46

       ... like, wait a minute-

   23. JRJoe Rogan34:47

       Yeah.

   24. MBMike Baker34:47

       ... why, why don't you want some detail?

   25. JRJoe Rogan34:48

       Right.

   26. MBMike Baker34:48

       But so they would say, "Yes or no, would you buy Huawei?" And, and Gina Haspel was like, "Well, no, I wouldn't buy a Huawei phone." (laughs) Okay.

   27. JRJoe Rogan34:54

       Yeah. No.

   28. MBMike Baker34:55

       I'd say, "There's your answer." So... But it... I'm sure it left a lot of people wondering and scratching their heads thinking, "What are they talking about Chinese phones for?"

   29. JRJoe Rogan35:01

       That's a weird th- thing to ask someone, yes or a no. It seems like a pretty complex situation.

   30. MBMike Baker35:07

       Yeah. "Are you, uh, uh, are we gonna, uh, take care of North Korea? Yes or no?" Y- you know, come on.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Well, because in America…

   1. MBMike Baker45:00

      So there's this pattern of, you know, people want... And that's good. People want to think the best, and I, that's a good thing. I mean, Americans tend to be, whether it's ideological or, or naïve or, or just optimistic, whatever it is, that's a good thing, right? But it, it butts up against the reality of how the world actually works.

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:16

      Well, because in America things are pretty good.

   3. MBMike Baker45:20

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:20

      I mean, they're about as good as it gets in the world when you wander around America. For a, a, as large a nation as this is, things are pretty goddamn good for the most part.

   5. MBMike Baker45:30

      Yeah, yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:31

      And I think that's part of the problem is that these people, they're not traveling to these war zones, they're not experiencing... I've talked to so many people that have been overseas and been to these places of conflict, and they come out with a, a dark view of what is possible-

   7. MBMike Baker45:47

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:47

      ... if you're in the wrong place on the planet.

   9. MBMike Baker45:49

      Yeah. What people can do to each other-

   10. JRJoe Rogan45:50

       Yeah.

   11. MBMike Baker45:51

       ... is a, uh, yeah, it can get messy. Um, but I think, um, there would be value if somehow we could enact some program where everybody had to spend a couple of years in service-

   12. JRJoe Rogan46:06

       Yeah.

   13. MBMike Baker46:06

       ... of some sort. Military service or overseas service. I know we had the Peace Corps and all of that, but you know, and, and high school kids say, "Well, I went to Bermuda and I built a house for a week (laughs) , so I got my international experience."

   14. JRJoe Rogan46:17

       Well, that's better than nothing.

   15. MBMike Baker46:19

       Yeah, it's better than nothing. But I mean, I think something that would, would mean people would have a little more skin in the game and, and... But you're right, I mean, you go to some of these places, fourth and fifth world countries and, uh, and you do realize, and I'm, you know, people roll their eyes, but I... Damn it, this is the best country in the world. And I say that repeatedly and I believe it firmly. Uh, we make mistakes, there's no doubt about it. But we tend to course correct. We try. Sometimes it takes a little bit longer. Um, we, no matter what administration is there, we try to do the right thing. And so when people talk about, you know, us just stepping off and, and, and not worrying about our place in the world, uh, you know, someone's gonna try to take that position on the ladder. And it's not gonna be as benign as, as we tend to be. Not alwa- again, again, I realize we make mistakes. Fine, okay, fine, I'm not gonna self-flagellate over it. But, you know, still, we, we do a pretty damn good job.

   16. JRJoe Rogan47:11

       We try to be the moral authority of the world, or the moral compass at least. I mean, that's the thought process behind it for the most part.

   17. MBMike Baker47:19

       Right, that's the thought process, yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan47:20

       Yeah.

   19. MBMike Baker47:21

       And, and, and, you know, sometimes, again, it's a human endeavor, so it's not gonna work all the time.

   20. JRJoe Rogan47:25

       Don't you think that people are more open to this idea that it's necessary now because of the, the Russian situation and because of understanding the amount of power that Putin wields and the way he has just really ultimate control over that part of the world?

   21. MBMike Baker47:38

       Mm-hmm.

   22. JRJoe Rogan47:38

       He really does.

   23. MBMike Baker47:39

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan47:39

       I mean, you could drone on all you want about democratic elections, but we all know that's horseshit.

   25. MBMike Baker47:45

       (laughs) Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan47:46

       I mean, he fucking kills anybody over there that's a legitimate threat, kills anybody over there that's a journalist.

   27. MBMike Baker47:50

       Not just over there.

   28. JRJoe Rogan47:51

       Yeah.

   29. MBMike Baker47:51

       I mean, look, they tried to bag-

   30. JRJoe Rogan47:53

       They tried in England.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:05:55

   Mm. …

   1. MBMike Baker1:00:00

      probably thinks at this stage of the game, times were different, it was tough re- regarding his family, but I think he probably regrets not going in the last time.

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:06

      Mm.

   3. MBMike Baker1:00:06

      And I think we're gonna see him throw his hat in the ring because he's gonna look around and he's gonna think, "What, what am I up against? I'm up against, uh, Harris and Booker and," you know, who else?

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:14

      Yeah.

   5. MBMike Baker1:00:14

      But I mean, I think-

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:16

      He's got some baggage, though.

   7. MBMike Baker1:00:17

      Oh, he does.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:17

      That people forget about. When I was in Boston, we used to have Joe Biden night at Stitches Comedy Club where we would, uh, plagiarize each other's jokes-

   9. MBMike Baker1:00:25

      (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:00:26

       ... because Joe Biden, people don't remember this, but in the 1980s he got busted plagiarizing Kennedy speeches.

   11. MBMike Baker1:00:31

       Yeah, yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:00:32

       People forgot about that. He ran for president in '88.

   13. MBMike Baker1:00:35

       Yeah, yeah, and that's a good point be- you know, we ... Everybody loves the guy that's sitting on the bench, right?

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:00:39

       Yeah.

   15. MBMike Baker1:00:40

       So there were a lot of Democrats, I think after the fact, that were thinking, "Oh my God, if Joe would just run."

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:00:44

       Mm.

   17. MBMike Baker1:00:44

       But he's run a couple of times, hasn't worked out.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:00:46

       Yeah, and-

   19. MBMike Baker1:00:46

       And so, yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:00:47

       ... Trump would've chewed him up.

   21. MBMike Baker1:00:48

       Yeah. Yeah, he would've-

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:00:49

       I mean ...

   23. MBMike Baker1:00:50

       ... been through. Um, so I, you know, anyway, uh, but what I, I, I ... It's, it's the, the politics of it all are, are fascinating, but it's-

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:00:57

       Did you see the crazy shit when Trump was saying he'd beat him up?He's like, "Crazy Joe Biden said that he could beat me u- beat me up-"

   25. MBMike Baker1:01:04

       Oh, yes. (laughs)

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:01:05

       ... and that he would go down fast and hard." (laughs)

   27. MBMike Baker1:01:07

       That's right. (laughs) You think, "Wait a second, what is it?" I, I, I think they should have just gone with that. I think they should have done some sort of celebrity match there.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:01:15

       That's what I was saying.

   29. MBMike Baker1:01:16

       Yeah. Yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:01:16

       I was saying, like, let me, let me be the commentator.

Episode duration: 2:45:24