Joe Rogan Experience #1120 - Ben Greenfield

Joe Rogan 0:00 Bom, bom, bom, four, three, two, one. (slams table) Ben Greenfield eats ants.

Ben Greenfield 0:06 Mm.

Joe Rogan 0:07 Just want everybody to know.

Ben Greenfield 0:08 Hey, I, if I was gonna go to Disney as much as you go to Disney, I'd, I'd eat a lot more black ants.

Joe Rogan 0:13 Why are you eating ants?

Ben Greenfield 0:15 Well, supposedly... I actually don't know that much about ants. I'm just, I'm just eating it because it supposedly gives you energy. I needed a, a pick-me-up this morning. We lifted weights this morning, and I needed a second boost of energy. But apparently, these ants live in ginseng roots, and they have something that grows in their heads that acts as, like, a nootropic. It's, like, some kind of a chemical nootropic. And it also, supposedly, is one of these Chinese energy tonics. It's like the whole, you know, the doctrine of signatures. You know the doctrine of signatures in nature? You've heard-

Joe Rogan 0:46 No, what's that?

Ben Greenfield 0:46 It's the idea that, that things in nature give you clues, right? So, so like, when you slice open a tomato, you've got the four chambers of the heart, and tomato's supposedly good for the heart, or pomegranate is good for your blood, and the little pomegranate seeds look like red blood cells. You slice open a carrot, it looks like an eye, or you, you crack open an egg, it looks like an eye. Those are s- those are good for your vision. Um, sweet potatoes, which everybody thinks is like a, like a sweet, sugary food, those are actually shaped like a pancreas, and they can actually help to normalize your, your beta cells. Like, your, your insulin-producing beta cells in your pancreas. So, you look at, you know, walnuts for your brain, and people talk about, uh, w- avocados, right?

Joe Rogan 1:27 Mm-hmm.

Ben Greenfield 1:27 Supposedly, they look a little bit like an ovary, and they're good for female reproductive function.

Joe Rogan 1:31 Hmm.

Ben Greenfield 1:31 So, you can, you can carry that over from the plant kingdom into the animal kingdom and say that if you eat ants, because they're such energetic, endurance-driven creatures, that it supposedly will make you stronger.

Joe Rogan 1:43 Boy, that's a stretch.

Ben Greenfield 1:44 Well, wait till this stuff hits me, and then we'll arm wrestle. We'll find out.

Joe Rogan 1:47 (laughs) Have you been doing it for a while? How long have you been taking this stuff?

Ben Greenfield 1:51 That was the third time I've, I've actually used it. You just-

Joe Rogan 1:54 And?

Ben Greenfield 1:54 ... dissolve it in ... I mean, I, I used it for a workout a couple of times.

Joe Rogan 1:56 So this is your concoction?

Ben Greenfield 1:58 It was-

Joe Rogan 1:58 Right? You took ground-

Ben Greenfield 1:59 Well, I-

Joe Rogan 1:59 ... up ants-

Ben Greenfield 2:00 I, I didn't grind up the ants myself. That would've been exhausting to catch-

Joe Rogan 2:04 Did you buy them ground up?

Ben Greenfield 2:04 ... to catch that many black ... I bought ground up black ant powder, and-

Joe Rogan 2:08 Okay, Jim, Jimmy just pulled up some ginseng ants powder.

Ben Greenfield 2:10 ... yeah. I, I don't think they're called ... that's actually, that's where I bought them.

Joe Rogan 2:13 King of herbs.

Ben Greenfield 2:13 That's where I bought them. Lost Empire-

Joe Rogan 2:15 Black ant-

Ben Greenfield 2:15 Polyrachis ants.

Joe Rogan 2:17 Hmm.

Ben Greenfield 2:17 A key tonic of Chinese herbalism.

Joe Rogan 2:19 But you know what? The Chinese people are also into the rhino horn, so I'm not-

Ben Greenfield 2:23 It's, it's not just a pre-workout herb, according to the website. It's a pre-workout super herb.

Joe Rogan 2:27 Oh, a super herb.

Ben Greenfield 2:28 Which is supposedly far more scientifically super than a regular herb.

Joe Rogan 2:33 Like a superfood.

Ben Greenfield 2:33 Right, it's like a superfood. Exactly.

Joe Rogan 2:35 Yeah, I'm a little annoyed with that word superfood.

Ben Greenfield 2:37 Yeah, yeah. I, I like that idea, though, of the doctrine of signatures, where, like, certain things-

Joe Rogan 2:41 Kinda interesting.

Ben Greenfield 2:41 ... that you see in nature being good for you. There's, there's-

Joe Rogan 2:43 Alright.

Ben Greenfield 2:43 ... one called, um, I for- ... I forget the, uh, the name of this plant, but it's called the insulin of the heart, and it's amazing for decreasing sympathetic nervous system activation and causing you to relax. And it has these beneficial cardiovascular properties, and people who are just so driven that they tend to have, for example, you know, a, a heart attack, or an MI. And it's, uh, it's not spilanthes. I forget the name of this, but, but it looks like a heart, and it has all these red vessels that kinda come off it.

Joe Rogan 3:14 Oh.

Ben Greenfield 3:14 It's called the insulin of the heart. Um, w- there's, there's an app that my kids and I use to identify a lot of these. It's called FlowerChecker. And it's-

Joe Rogan 3:25 So you read about this ant stuff online, and then you started taking it.

Ben Greenfield 3:29 Yeah. Well-

Joe Rogan 3:29 And then you mixed it in some sort of a tincture? Here it is.

Ben Greenfield 3:31 Just vodka. Yeah. Yeah, ooh-bane. That stuff.

Joe Rogan 3:35 "Nature's perfect-

Ben Greenfield 3:36 Yeah, ooh-

Joe Rogan 3:36 ... but forgotten remedy for heart disease."

Ben Greenfield 3:38 Ooh-bane. I interviewed a physician on my show, a Dr. Thomas Cowan, and he wrote a book about how the heart is not a pump. And he talks about the true reason for heart disease being sympathetic nervous system overdrive, and-

Joe Rogan 3:51 What, what does he mean by "the heart is not a pump?"

Ben Greenfield 3:53 ... mineral depletion and dehydration. And what he means by "the heart is not a pump" ... it's a fascinating book. The shape of the chest is ... I, I believe it's called, like, a tetrahedron, or some- it, it's, it's something like that. But basically, as fluid moves through the heart, the action of the fluid actually moving through the heart allows it to, to pass through the heart and not have to be pumped through the body. But rather, the shape of the heart is almost like causing the fluid to move in a vortex. And so-

Joe Rogan 4:26 But the heart most certainly-

Ben Greenfield 4:26 ... it moves more readily out of the body. Oh, the heart-

Joe Rogan 4:28 ... pumps.

Ben Greenfield 4:28 The heart contracts.

Joe Rogan 4:30 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 4:30 But, but it's less of a pumping action and more of, like, a, like, a vortex flow that it creates. The book's called Why Your Heart Is Not a Pump.

Joe Rogan 4:38 Hmm.

Ben Greenfield 4:38 It's very interesting.

Joe Rogan 4:39 Is it wide- well received amongst scientists?

Ben Greenfield 4:42 No, it's ... it kinda flies under the radar a little bit.

Joe Rogan 4:44 Hmm.

Ben Greenfield 4:45 Yeah. Yeah, but it's, it's an interesting book. It's a short book. It's, like, maybe 100 pages long.

Joe Rogan 4:50 I thought it was, like, universally regarded as a pump.

Ben Greenfield 4:52 Yeah. I don't know if, if you would necessarily classify it as a pump as much as a contracting muscle.

Joe Rogan 4:58 Hmm.

Ben Greenfield 4:58 But-

Joe Rogan 4:59 Boom, boom.

Ben Greenfield 4:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:00 Boom, boom. But when you die, and then they bring you back to life, they push your heart to make it pump.

Ben Greenfield 5:07 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 5:08 Pump, pump. Pump, pump. Pump, pump. Seems like a pump.

Ben Greenfield 5:10 Yeah, yeah. So-

Joe Rogan 5:11 But I don't know shit.

Ben Greenfield 5:13 T- read the book. It's interesting.

Joe Rogan 5:15 Okay. Well, I'm not gonna.

Ben Greenfield 5:15 It's interesting.

Joe Rogan 5:15 (laughs)

Ben Greenfield 5:15 But this, this, uh, this FlowerChecker app, this FlowerChecker app, it's really cool. You, you take a picture of a plant, and then there's a team of live botanists on the other end. And within 24 hours, they identify the plant for you, and you can learn its, its edible properties, its medicinal properties. So my kids and I can walk around and take pictures of different plants, different flowers, different things on our land.

Joe Rogan 5:39 Huh.

Ben Greenfield 5:40 And it develops this online herbarium that then allows you to keep track of all the different plants and what you've learned about them and, and what they're good for. So we use that whenever we're identifying plants. There was one time when we were fishing off the, off the, uh, the North Fork of the Clearwater, so we went on this fly-fishing trip, and we were staying in this cabin-

Joe Rogan 5:58 Where's that? The Clearwater?

Ben Greenfield 5:59 The, the Clearwater up in Idaho. So we were near, uh, Grangeville. Most people fly into Grangeville, Idaho. It's a great fly-fishing. Huge steelhead. And, uh ...... the, the hike that we went on, we didn't have our phones or anything with us to take pictures of, of what we were finding, and we found this, this enormous, uh, almost like a, like a field of wild asparagus, which is-

Joe Rogan 6:21 Oh, wow.

Ben Greenfield 6:21 ... and, and my buddy who was with us, he had bear broth that he was, that he was ... It was like a bear bone broth that he had in this vat back at the cabin. So, we harvested all this asparagus, and this was before we went out fishing, and we put all the asparagus into the bone broth and then just left for the day. And then we came back and we had, we had fish, we had bone broth, we had asparagus, and we all ate this bone broth. And it turns out that this stuff was not asparagus. So, my kids and I, our heads were spinning all night. The guy that owned the cabin, apparently he didn't sleep. He was just like, hunched over the toilet the whole evening and it turns out this stuff is called, I think it was brassica. It looks like asparagus, but apparently it has very high levels of nicotine.

Joe Rogan 7:02 (coughs) Oh, Jesus Christ.

Ben Greenfield 7:02 So we were all overdosed on nicotine for the next two days on this fishing trip. My kids made-

Joe Rogan 7:07 Yeah, you should probably be really careful before you eat wild shit.

Ben Greenfield 7:09 Yeah. Yeah. That's the, that's the only time I haven't used that app to actually go, go plant foraging.

Joe Rogan 7:15 Well, who, who thought it was asparagus?

Ben Greenfield 7:17 We all thought it was asparagus, you know, there ... It was me, one of the chefs who was out at the cabin with us, uh, my kids and, and twin nine-year-old boys know a lot about plants, so you always trust them if they say it's wild asparagus. But I, I was convinced it was asparagus. I mean, I, I kinda tasted it out there while we were, we were out in the field and it tasted like asparagus, but no, it's not asparagus. It's, it's brassica.

Joe Rogan 7:38 Jesus Christ.

Ben Greenfield 7:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:40 That sounds horrible.

Ben Greenfield 7:41 Yeah, yeah. But they, uh, there's another app called A Plant Snap and apparently it uses artificial intelligence, you know, like a reverse Google image search-

Joe Rogan 7:48 Mm-hmm.

Ben Greenfield 7:48 ... to identify a plant. I've used that and it, and it's, it's useless. Anything you take a picture of it-

Joe Rogan 7:53 Really?

Ben Greenfield 7:53 ... it, it doesn't seem to be able to identify anything. But this FlowerChecker is just live people on the other end.

Joe Rogan 7:58 Well, does Google ... There's, there's, uh, Google image searches, like some s- some ... There's a, an application that uses cameras and if you take a photo of something, it can identify it.

Ben Greenfield 8:08 Right, exactly.

Joe Rogan 8:10 What is it? What is it called s-

Ben Greenfield 8:10 I think that's called like a reverse Google image search or something like that, but, but the AI doesn't seem to work as well for plant identification. I would imagine it's looking at the leaves, the shape of the leaves, how it comes off the plant-

Joe Rogan 8:20 Right.

Ben Greenfield 8:20 ... you know, the veins, the, the, the opposite versus symmetrical, you know, everything that goes into a plant identification, but ...

Joe Rogan 8:26 Now, when you, you steelhead fish-

Ben Greenfield 8:27 I'd rather go with a real person.

Joe Rogan 8:29 Steelhead ... Yeah, you gotta go with a real person.

Ben Greenfield 8:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:31 You gotta go with an actual botanist. Um.

Ben Greenfield 8:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:33 Um, steelhead are, uh, ocean-bound, uh, rainbow trout, right? They come back and forth?

Ben Greenfield 8:38 Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:39 Um, do you guys ... Do you catch and release or d- or do you eat them?

Ben Greenfield 8:42 This was all catch and release. There, there's, um-

Joe Rogan 8:44 It's a real common thing with those things.

Ben Greenfield 8:45 Yeah. There, there's a certain kind that you can catch and I d- I d- I'm not a fly-fishing expert. This was like, a fun trip with my kids to learn how to fly-fish and we didn't catch any that we could actually keep.

Joe Rogan 8:54 Yeah, I don't understand that kind of fishing. It's weird, you know, that, that-

Ben Greenfield 8:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:58 ... take a long trip, go out into the wilderness, go to the river, catch some fish-

Ben Greenfield 9:02 Catch a fish.

Joe Rogan 9:02 ... let it go.

Ben Greenfield 9:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:03 It seems-

Ben Greenfield 9:04 Yeah. It's, it's the thrill of the chase.

Joe Rogan 9:05 I get it. I mean, it's great for kids.

Ben Greenfield 9:07 Thrill of the chase. Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:07 You know, I've done it with, uh, kids bass fishing before.

Ben Greenfield 9:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:10 But it's just, uh-

Ben Greenfield 9:11 You can't do that when you bow hunt.

Joe Rogan 9:13 No. No, but it's just-

Ben Greenfield 9:14 There, there's no catch and release.

Joe Rogan 9:15 ... it's, it's a weird thing. You're, you know, sticking a hook in a fish's mouth and then letting it go.

Ben Greenfield 9:20 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:20 Like, "We got him, let's let him go."

Ben Greenfield 9:22 Yeah. They're hard to reel in, though. That's like a 10-minute fight to get those fish in.

Joe Rogan 9:25 Big animal.

Ben Greenfield 9:25 They're big.

Joe Rogan 9:26 Yeah, they're powerful fish, too.

Ben Greenfield 9:27 They're big. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:28 They deal with those o- ocean currents.

Ben Greenfield 9:30 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 9:30 Ocean fish are almost always more strong-

Ben Greenfield 9:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:32 ... when you, when you pull them in than, uh, freshwater fish.

Ben Greenfield 9:36 Yeah. Oh, they're, they're very strong. They're stronger than ants, I would imagine.

Joe Rogan 9:39 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 9:39 Yeah. Um.

Joe Rogan 9:40 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 9:40 Speaking of big, big animals-

Joe Rogan 9:42 So, go back to this ant thing. Go back to this ant thing and, and tell me what has been the reaction. Like, when you take it, like, what, how do you feel?

Ben Greenfield 9:47 Just more ... Just like a cup of coffee.

Joe Rogan 9:49 You really do feel like-

Ben Greenfield 9:50 Just energy. You do, you do feel more energy.

Joe Rogan 9:51 Do you think it's because of the ginseng or is it pos- possible a placebo effect?

Ben Greenfield 9:54 I don't ... I, I think they just live within the ginseng and that makes the story sexier for the website that sells black ant powder.

Joe Rogan 10:00 Mm. So, you think just eating the ants themselves give you energy?

Ben Greenfield 10:03 I would imagine that you'd have to catch a lot of ants to get what you'd get out of, like, all the powdered extract that they-

Joe Rogan 10:08 Right.

Ben Greenfield 10:08 ... that they sell you. So-

Joe Rogan 10:09 Right. But I mean, eating the powdered extract, then. Just that-

Ben Greenfield 10:12 Right.

Joe Rogan 10:12 ... somehow or another ... What's the mechanism for it giving you energy?

Ben Greenfield 10:16 Uh, there, there's some chemical that's, that's in the ants, but I d- I don't know the mechanism of action. Again, I, like I, I really don't claim to be an expert in ant ex- extract.

Joe Rogan 10:24 But yet you have a bottle of-

Ben Greenfield 10:25 But, but I'm, but I'm trying ... I have a-

Joe Rogan 10:26 (laughs)

Ben Greenfield 10:26 I have a bottle of it. It was, it was in, in with all my other supplements and, and, uh, I was packing up this morning and thought it would be an, an interesting one-

Joe Rogan 10:33 It is interesting.

Ben Greenfield 10:34 ... to show, to show to you. Just a giant bottle that says "ant" on it.

Joe Rogan 10:37 What is the, um ... (laughs) what is the standard way that people take it? Do they put it like, add it to a smoothie or something?

Ben Greenfield 10:41 I ... Uh, I think as a, as a powder or as a tincture.

Joe Rogan 10:43 Mm.

Ben Greenfield 10:43 Yeah. I would imagine you could probably put it in a smoothie.

Joe Rogan 10:46 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 10:46 Yeah. With your, with your bee pollen and your other insect derivatives.

Joe Rogan 10:49 Right. Wow.

Ben Greenfield 10:50 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 10:51 Yeah, but it l- yeah. What a weird one, huh?

Ben Greenfield 10:54 Yeah. Anyways, though, you sh- you should have come out and done the Spartan. I d- I know you were at Disney.

Joe Rogan 11:00 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 11:00 But ...

Joe Rogan 11:00 I told you I couldn't go, so I don't know why you said I should-

Ben Greenfield 11:02 Yeah. Well, you-

Joe Rogan 11:03 ... when I told you I couldn't.

Ben Greenfield 11:03 Well, D- uh, Spartan, Spartan's a, Spartan's a little bit more interesting than Disney, in my opinion.

Joe Rogan 11:08 Well, I didn't go to Disney for myself.

Ben Greenfield 11:10 Yeah, yeah. I don't know. Yeah. They have, they have kids races out there, too.

Joe Rogan 11:13 Do you, do you like ... But you were doing commentary or something? Is that what you're doing?

Ben Greenfield 11:15 I was doing the, uh ... They, they have commentary all day long at the Spartan Race. So, I was doing the commentary and then I raced the next day.

Joe Rogan 11:21 Oh, so you did-

Ben Greenfield 11:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 11:22 ... one day commentary, one day ... So was it two day race thing?

Ben Greenfield 11:24 It wa- they do ... The way they do it, they get like, tens ... Probably, I would say some of these races, 8 to 12,000 athletes.

Joe Rogan 11:31 Wow.

Ben Greenfield 11:32 In, in that, in that approximate range. And they-

Joe Rogan 11:34 So then they break it up.

Ben Greenfield 11:35 They go out, they break it up. There's long races, there's short races. So the long race was 13, about 13 miles. Which on a road half-marathon, that'd be like a 1:05 that an athlete would do on a, on a race like that, and-

Joe Rogan 11:47 So it's a 13-mile run-

Ben Greenfield 11:49 So it's out Bear with the obstacles and the hills and it's out at Big Bear, which is a ski resort-

Joe Rogan 11:53 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 11:53 ... which I just found out from my wife apparently they use fake snow. There's like a pond at the top of the, at the top of the resort that they make all the snow with. Apparently it doesn't actually-

Joe Rogan 12:01 Well, it's real snow, but it's artificially created, right? It's like they make with the snow machines. Snow like they use in-

Ben Greenfield 12:06 Yes, artificially created real snow made-

Joe Rogan 12:09 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 12:09 ... from water at the top of the mountain in a snow machine.

Joe Rogan 12:12 It's not like plastic.

Ben Greenfield 12:12 It's not ... Yeah, it's, it's not, it's not foam.

Joe Rogan 12:14 (laughs)

Ben Greenfield 12:14 Uh-

Joe Rogan 12:14 I wonder if anybody's trying to do that.

Ben Greenfield 12:15 ... to make foam snow?

Joe Rogan 12:17 Yeah, to make some snow, like some-

Ben Greenfield 12:18 I don't know. Ask, ask him at the mall in Dubai.

Joe Rogan 12:20 Right.

Ben Greenfield 12:20 They've got some, they've got something over there. I don't know if it's real snow.

Joe Rogan 12:22 But I bet it's a snow machine, right?

Ben Greenfield 12:24 Yeah. It probably is actual snow derived from water.

Joe Rogan 12:26 At the mall in Dubai, they have, like, a crazy hill, right?

Ben Greenfield 12:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 12:29 And you could ski.

Ben Greenfield 12:30 Yeah, they have an actual indoor ski ... Or they have Penguins, an indoor ski resort. Everything.

Joe Rogan 12:34 (gasps) That's crazy.

Ben Greenfield 12:34 Yeah, so this race, though, for those same 13 miles, it's like two hours and I think the winner did a 2:16, 2:17, something like that. So it's-

Joe Rogan 12:42 And so you have to jump over stuff.

Ben Greenfield 12:43 ... so you're going a lot slower. Yeah, you gotta carry, carry sandbags, and carry big gravel buckets. It's like doing yard chores and then running-

Joe Rogan 12:50 (laughs)

Ben Greenfield 12:50 ... to your next yard chore. You know, barbwire crawling and, and hoisting ropes. But it's good for full body fitness.

Joe Rogan 12:56 And that's the win-

Ben Greenfield 12:56 'Cause I used to do triathlon. When I did triathlon, I was weak, right? Because, you know-

Joe Rogan 12:59 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 13:00 ... you swim, you bike, you run, and I had an engine that could go for days. But I did my first Spartan race and I couldn't climb a rope and I couldn't carry-

Joe Rogan 13:07 Oh.

Ben Greenfield 13:07 ... a sandbag up a hill. So I think it's good for functional fitness.

Joe Rogan 13:11 Here it is, right here.

Ben Greenfield 13:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:11 Jamie's got a video of it up there.

Jamie Vernon 13:13 This is, uh ... Thank you, man.

Ben Greenfield 13:13 Oh, that's a, that's a stadium. That's actually a good way to start.

Joe Rogan 13:16 Oh, this is Bert Kreischer doing this?

Ben Greenfield 13:16 That's, that's inside a stadium.

Jamie Vernon 13:18 He did it at Dodger Stadium a couple weeks ago.

Ben Greenfield 13:19 Yeah. And, and-

Joe Rogan 13:21 Oh, look at him.

Ben Greenfield 13:21 ... you know, you don't have to get muddy and there's no fake snow. And the stadium race is-

Joe Rogan 13:25 He's running with a fucking selfie stick?

Jamie Vernon 13:26 (laughs)

Ben Greenfield 13:26 Yeah.

Jamie Vernon 13:26 I don't know how fast he did it.

Joe Rogan 13:27 Oh, Christ.

Ben Greenfield 13:28 You know, it's kind- ... It's, it c- it c- it can be kind of a joke, 'cause some people will go out in uniforms with big cowboy hats on and, you know, dressed up as, as, uh, Spider-Man in their Lycra and ... And then some people, they, they have these elite waves where it's actual, uh, you know, legit athletes doing these things, but-

Joe Rogan 13:45 This is kinda interesting, though.

Ben Greenfield 13:47 But it is ... You know, you can see, you move your body in a lot of different ways on these courses. So it's fun, you know. It's fun to train for, 'cause you gotta train all your different body parts, and you train for power and strength and there's endurance. So it's a good mix of everything.

Joe Rogan 14:01 Hmm.

Ben Greenfield 14:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:02 I didn't know they're doing them in stadiums. That's kinda cool.

Ben Greenfield 14:04 The stadium races are cool, 'cause you just show up at, at AT&T Stadium, wherever you're gonna race.

Joe Rogan 14:08 Right.

Ben Greenfield 14:08 And, and you go up and down. And, and they will turn a stadium into, like, a, a three-to-four-mile event. I mean, that's how many times you go up and down these stairs.

Joe Rogan 14:16 Right.

Ben Greenfield 14:16 And they have an event for the kids where the kids will go up and down the stairs, and the kids have miniature sandbags and miniature spears. So it actually is kind of a cool event.

Joe Rogan 14:24 That's pretty badass. That looked, like, pretty badass.

Ben Greenfield 14:26 For the, for the whole family.

Joe Rogan 14:26 Except for his fucking selfie stick.

Ben Greenfield 14:29 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 14:29 Like, everything must be documented. You cannot live in this life without people knowing exactly what you're doing at all times.

Ben Greenfield 14:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:36 Running with a selfie stick.

Ben Greenfield 14:37 I'm taking my kids to one of those, uh, those Train to Hunt competitions this weekend.

Joe Rogan 14:41 Oh, yeah?

Ben Greenfield 14:41 In Bonners Ferry. So they're gonna do their first actual kids ... And same thing, it's the kids events where the k- the kids shoot. They've got 15-to-20-yard shots, and then they have, like, a sandbag lift and a run, and then they've got another shot, and then they've got burpees up and over a cooler and another shot, and then there's a, there's a grownup event and a kids event. Those things are fun too. And-

Joe Rogan 14:59 Yeah, that's ... Those are really interesting. The idea behind them is kinda cool too, because it lets people know what ... Like, if you're, if you're involved in one of those backcountry backpack hunts, it's, it's very much a physical event. Like, you-

Ben Greenfield 15:12 Very much.

Joe Rogan 15:12 You're carrying, most likely, at least 35 to 45 pounds on your back, especially if you're carrying your camp on your back. And then you're hiking, you know, thousands of feet of elevation. You're up and down.

Ben Greenfield 15:23 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 15:24 Climbing over logs and shit. You're carrying your bow. There's a lot of physical exertion involved, like-

Ben Greenfield 15:29 There ... Well, there's a lot of crawling.

Joe Rogan 15:31 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 15:31 A lot of crawling.

Joe Rogan 15:32 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 15:32 Yeah. I mean, you did that Hawaii hunt.

Joe Rogan 15:34 Yeah, that was a lot of crawling.

Ben Greenfield 15:34 Which island did you hunt?

Joe Rogan 15:36 Lanai.

Ben Greenfield 15:36 Lanai. Yeah, I had ... I hunted Kona, uh, I guess that was like five weeks ago. And on the sheep hunt, because the sheep stay out in the, in the open plains, you'll crawl sometimes for an hour and a half.

Joe Rogan 15:47 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 15:47 To, to, to get close enough for a shot on the sheep.

Joe Rogan 15:49 Yeah, the final day, um, when I killed, I killed two axis buck, uh, uh, out there. And the final day, we crawled for at least an hour, at least an hour. Like, super fucking slow. Those things are switched on.

Ben Greenfield 16:02 And it's frustrating too with, with an animal. Or, or sheep. Sheep are not stupid.

Joe Rogan 16:06 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 16:06 They're smart. Now, they're not as fast as an axis, but that's the most frustrating part, is, is you'll put on a crawl, right?

Joe Rogan 16:12 Mm-hmm.

Ben Greenfield 16:12 Maybe you're 200 yards out and you spend an hour getting 60 and then the wind swirls-

Joe Rogan 16:16 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 16:16 ... and they pick you up and they're off.

Joe Rogan 16:17 Yeah, that happened a few times.

Ben Greenfield 16:17 And then you have to stand up and brush yourself off and you gotta go crawl again.

Joe Rogan 16:21 Yeah. But, you know, if it was easy, it wouldn't be-

Ben Greenfield 16:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:24 ... hunting.

Ben Greenfield 16:25 Yeah. I-

Joe Rogan 16:25 It'd just be killing.

Ben Greenfield 16:26 I got one of those jungle scrub cows. I told you.

Joe Rogan 16:29 Yeah, you were telling me about that.

Ben Greenfield 16:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:30 So these ... To, to explain to people what a scrub bull is, 'cause it-

Ben Greenfield 16:34 Well, apparently, they're just, they're just feral cows.

Joe Rogan 16:36 Yeah, they're domesticated cows.

Ben Greenfield 16:36 And they're not, they're not all bulls. There's bulls and cows.

Joe Rogan 16:39 Cows. Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 16:39 I shot a cow, and I thought at first that it was gonna be kind of a stupid hunt, shooting a cow, because it ... You know, the, the, the pigs are pigs. They, they eat really well 'cause they feed on macadamia nuts. They're a lot better than the pigs in Texas and they, they taste amazing.

Joe Rogan 16:52 Macadamia nuts, huh?

Ben Greenfield 16:52 We, we did, we did it. Yeah, it was very fatty-

Joe Rogan 16:54 Right.

Ben Greenfield 16:55 ... almost like, like a nutty meat.

Joe Rogan 16:56 Wow.

Ben Greenfield 16:56 So we did a Cinco de Mayo cook-off, me and my kids, and we took the ribs from, from this pig-

Joe Rogan 17:02 Ooh.

Ben Greenfield 17:02 ... that I shipped back. So, you know, and it cost ... It was like 150 bucks to ship 250 pounds of meat back from Kona. So I had sheep, pig, and cow, and shipped it all back-

Joe Rogan 17:11 Wow.

Ben Greenfield 17:11 ... which is not that expensive. And the, the pig was ... I mean, it, it ate better than any pork I've ever had in my life.

Joe Rogan 17:18 Really?

Ben Greenfield 17:19 These, these ribs. And, you know, we blended them up and my kids made a, made an adobo sauce with the peppers and-

Joe Rogan 17:24 Oh.

Ben Greenfield 17:24 And they, they have a little food podcast, so we f- we did-

Joe Rogan 17:26 Wow.

Ben Greenfield 17:26 ... all this for their food podcast. But, oh my goodness, it's like the fattiest but, but, like, a nutty, flavorful fat. 'Cause, 'cause they feed on these macadamia nuts.

Joe Rogan 17:36 Wow.

Ben Greenfield 17:36 You know, there's no grain, there's no corn, you know.

Joe Rogan 17:38 Right.

Ben Greenfield 17:38 And they're, and they're just wild and running around out there. So the pig was really good, but the cow was tough.

Joe Rogan 17:44 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 17:45 It was, it was a, it was a tough cow. I'd, I ... On the first day we were out there, I took the backstrap and I soaked that in lemon juice all day, and then that kinda broke it down a little bit and it wasn't that bad. But what I did when I got home was ... I've got a refrigerator out in my garage and I hooked up a temperature controller to it. You can get this temperature controller that's called a A419 and it'll keep the temperature of the refrigerator about 34 to 38 degrees. So rather than plugging the refrigerator into the wall, you plug it into this, this temp control unit. And then you put a humidifier in and a fan, like, on the, on the bottom of the fridge. And then you take all your meat and you lay it out on grates in the refrigerator. And I left it in there for about three weeks, this scrub cow, and it develops this hard, gristly coating on the outside of, of the, of the meat. And then I took it out and just sliced all this hard, gristly part off of the outside, and the inside of that meat was like butter.

Joe Rogan 18:36 So, you're dry aging it, essentially.

Ben Greenfield 18:37 Yeah, it's, yeah, that's exactly what it is.

Joe Rogan 18:38 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 18:39 It's, it's a dry age in a refrigerator, but you control the, the temperature you want about 34 to 38 degrees, and then the humidity can vary a lot more than that, but I kept the humidity at about 60 to 70 degrees. And then basically you just slice off all that hard, gristly external coating, and you've got this amazing meat. I mean, super soft, super tender.

Joe Rogan 18:58 Mm.

Ben Greenfield 18:59 And then I just have this, uh, this vacuum packer and, and it's a, a cool little unit. You can just cut a bag any size you want, right? For a neck or a shoulder or like a smaller bag for a backstrap or a tenderloin. And, uh, bagged it up.

Joe Rogan 19:11 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 19:12 And it's-

Joe Rogan 19:12 I have one of those vacuum sealers.

Ben Greenfield 19:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:13 Those things are awesome.

Ben Greenfield 19:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:14 So-

Ben Greenfield 19:14 But the dry aging was key.

Joe Rogan 19:16 Yeah, I kn- I have friends that have o- one of those walk-in coolers.

Ben Greenfield 19:18 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:19 And they can set it to a certain temperature and they hang the meat and dry age-

Ben Greenfield 19:22 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:22 ... it out there.

Ben Greenfield 19:22 But that, uh, uh, I don't know what walk-in cooler they have 'cause I, I looked into the dry aging refrigerators-

Joe Rogan 19:28 Mm-hmm.

Ben Greenfield 19:28 ... and those are like $5,000-

Joe Rogan 19:29 Yeah, they're expensive.

Ben Greenfield 19:30 ... so to get a dry ... But you can get a refrigerator off Craigslist. That A419 thing I bought, that was like 50 bucks off Amazon.

Joe Rogan 19:35 How big is it?

Ben Greenfield 19:36 The refrigerator?

Joe Rogan 19:37 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 19:37 Just a normal-sized refrigerator.

Joe Rogan 19:38 Regular-sized refrigerator?

Ben Greenfield 19:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:39 And so-

Ben Greenfield 19:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 19:40 ... and so the, the food is on grates inside that refrigerator?

Ben Greenfield 19:44 Yeah, so I, so I took-

Joe Rogan 19:45 And the fan is on the bottom?

Ben Greenfield 19:45 ... all the shelving out of the refrigerator-

Joe Rogan 19:46 Mm-hmm.

Ben Greenfield 19:46 ... and I just put some plywood on, on either side of the refrigerator and, and I put these metal grates in between.

Joe Rogan 19:51 Oh, so you constructed your own sorta-

Ben Greenfield 19:52 Right, exactly.

Joe Rogan 19:53 Mm-hmm.

Ben Greenfield 19:53 And then just laid the meat down on the grates and put the fan on the bottom of the refrigerator so it's constantly circulating-

Joe Rogan 19:58 Oh.

Ben Greenfield 19:59 ... the air inside the refrigerator. And then the temperature controller has this, uh, uh, it, it'll display. So, in my kitchen in my house, it'll display the temperature and the humidity. So, I know if something goes wrong, so not all that meat spoils inside the refrigerator 'cause I'll see when I'm inside my kitchen, it'll read that, that the temperature's getting too high in the refrigerator.

Joe Rogan 20:18 Oh.

Ben Greenfield 20:18 So maybe somebody unplugged the fridge or the controller, you know, needed to be reset, which happened a couple of times. But you know, you wanna keep an eye on it.

Joe Rogan 20:25 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 20:26 It's a great way, though, to take meat and, I mean, make it far more flavorful, more tender. It's really good.

Joe Rogan 20:32 Well, especially with that-

Ben Greenfield 20:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:33 ... kind of meat.

Ben Greenfield 20:34 Right.

Joe Rogan 20:34 I mean, that's a tough-

Ben Greenfield 20:34 That meat that's tough anyways. It's tough-

Joe Rogan 20:36 Tough animal.

Ben Greenfield 20:36 ... it's gamey.

Joe Rogan 20:37 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 20:37 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:38 These, um, water buffalos, like you see the one behind me, a buddy of mine shot one of those in Australia and he said that he had, uh, Cam Hanes, he had a piece of it in his mouth and he was chewing one piece for a half an hour.

Ben Greenfield 20:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:50 That's how tough it is. And this was the backstrap which was-

Ben Greenfield 20:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:52 ... you know, one of the more tender parts of the body.

Ben Greenfield 20:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:55 Yeah. Tough animals.

Ben Greenfield 20:55 There's this idea though that, that that's good for, it's good for your jaw, it's good for your teeth structure. Like there's this guy, uh-

Joe Rogan 21:01 Oh, for sure.

Ben Greenfield 21:01 ... I think it's Max Mew, my, my brother sent me this, this YouTube video of this guy, but his, his whole idea is that, that humans' jaw structure, our bone density, our teeth, our trigeminal nerves, all of that don't work as well as they should because we grow up on soft food.

Joe Rogan 21:16 Mm.

Ben Greenfield 21:17 And we don't have to chew food as much.

Joe Rogan 21:18 That makes sense.

Ben Greenfield 21:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:19 A lot of boxers chew like big chunks of Bazooka bubblegum.

Ben Greenfield 21:23 Mm-hmm. Right.

Joe Rogan 21:23 You know, it gets kinda hard after a while-

Ben Greenfield 21:24 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 21:24 ... and you like dig into it-

Ben Greenfield 21:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:26 ... and it develops muscular endurance in your jaw.

Ben Greenfield 21:28 Mastic gum is another one.

Joe Rogan 21:28 I've even seen muscles ... Um, uh, I've s- seen machines, rather, where you take like a, a leather strap in your mouth-

Ben Greenfield 21:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 21:35 ... and you hang a piece of weight from it and you-

Ben Greenfield 21:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:37 ... you're doing this. Like (grunting) .

Ben Greenfield 21:39 Yeah. People were selling those for a while as a way to decrease rating of perceived exertion during exercise, exercise mouthpieces. And that the advertising on them was that the Vikings used to chew on leather before they'd go into battle to reduce pain and to increase their time to exhaustion. And so, they actually sell these mouthpieces that you bite down on when you're exercising.

Joe Rogan 22:01 Mm.

Ben Greenfield 22:01 But they w- they weren't designed to strengthen the jaw as much as to reduce how hard you felt like you were working during exercise. And some people swear by these exercise mouthpieces.

Joe Rogan 22:08 Well, I know that mouthpieces-

Ben Greenfield 22:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:10 ... supposedly can m- m- maximize the amount of effort that you can put forth, like there's a difference in the amount of, uh, strength that you can-

Ben Greenfield 22:18 You, you bite down.

Joe Rogan 22:18 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 22:18 It's almost like when you shake somebody's hand, you make a fist with one hand, then you shake their hand, you're, you're stronger. You know, and, and that's, that's something that Pavel Zatulne talks about-

Joe Rogan 22:26 Right.

Ben Greenfield 22:26 ... in his books, you know, about how to generate as much force as possible.

Joe Rogan 22:30 Right, for-

Ben Greenfield 22:30 You close one fist и mean, if you're gonna do like a bottoms up kettlebell press, right, you can do it with one hand open and press. Then you close your hand and contract this fist and it's, it's far easier to press with the other hand-

Joe Rogan 22:40 So what is the idea behind that? It somehow-

Ben Greenfield 22:42 It's, it's-

Joe Rogan 22:42 ... energizes your entire body?

Ben Greenfield 22:44 But no, it's, it's fascia. You know, the, there ... Your, your, your fascia covers your entire body. So, if you tighten up one part of it, it causes you to be able to produce more force. So, I mean, try it sometime with a kettlebell-

Joe Rogan 22:55 Mm.

Ben Greenfield 22:55 ... or w- or water bottle or coffee cup.

Joe Rogan 22:57 Well, I always kinda-

Ben Greenfield 22:57 Whatever you have available.

Joe Rogan 22:58 ... d- I flex my hand outward when I'm doing like bottoms up kettlebells.

Ben Greenfield 23:02 Yeah, but you flex your hand.

Joe Rogan 23:03 Yeah, I definitely flex my hand.

Ben Greenfield 23:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:05 I never just like let it sit, you know? There's always-

Ben Greenfield 23:08 Right.

Joe Rogan 23:08 ... there's always some tension in it.

Ben Greenfield 23:09 Right. It's, it's, it's full body tension, you know?

Joe Rogan 23:11 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 23:11 It's the, it's the same reason that you'll see a lot of tennis players or I think boxers do this too, a Valsalva maneuver when you strike. So, you hold your breath, you go uh-

Joe Rogan 23:21 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 23:21 ... right when you're doing that.

Joe Rogan 23:21 Sure.

Ben Greenfield 23:21 And the same thing, it tightens up everything.

Joe Rogan 23:23 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 23:23 It allows you to produce more force.

Joe Rogan 23:25 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 23:25 Um, the, uh, the other gum, you mentioned the Bazooka, there's a gum called mastic gum. And I interviewed this guy Dean Karnazes who run the ... He did the 50 marathons in 50 days and he, he ran the, the traditional marathon in Greece, which is apparently not 26.2 miles, it's like 100 and some miles that he ran.

Joe Rogan 23:43 What? (laughs)

Ben Greenfield 23:43 And he would chew this mastic gum which they do use for jaw strengthening, but it makes you produce more saliva too. So, so when you're running, you know, you can get dry mouth when you're running and, and a lot of times you get, you know, you'll be thinking about food, you wanna eat. This mastic gum apparently keeps your appetite satiated and allows you to produce saliva. And I bought some and it's, it's-

Joe Rogan 24:01 See if you can find that shit.

Ben Greenfield 24:02 It's a ... I think I got it on, uh-

Joe Rogan 24:05 Mastic gum.

Ben Greenfield 24:05 ... on Amazon. It's Greek.

Joe Rogan 24:06 Health benefits of mastic gum.

Ben Greenfield 24:09 Yeah, that's what it, that's what it-

Joe Rogan 24:10 By Nacim. Huh?

Ben Greenfield 24:10 It looks like little rocks. And the interesting thing (laughs) is, is you can take it out after you're done chewing it and then just like the next day put it back in your mouth and keep ... And you can chew that stuff for days. It's like a, like an everlasting gobstopper.

Joe Rogan 24:22 What does it taste like?

Ben Greenfield 24:23 It tastes like ass.

Joe Rogan 24:24 (laughs)

Ben Greenfield 24:24 It's not that, it's not that good. But if you have this, uh, this, this H. pylori issue, it's supposedly very good for that. Yeah, look, that one they added-

Joe Rogan 24:33 Go back, go back to the-

Ben Greenfield 24:33 ... they added licorice and aniseed-

Joe Rogan 24:35 Ugh.

Ben Greenfield 24:35 ... and fennel.

Joe Rogan 24:36 So it tastes even shittier? (laughs)

Ben Greenfield 24:37 Uh, yeah, but-... but it's supposedly, you know, this idea that we, we grow up on soft food, and-

Joe Rogan 24:42 Mm-hmm.

Ben Greenfield 24:42 ... babies eat, eat soft food. Yeah, you wouldn't want the capsule, that would... I mean, the capsule would be good for your... That's where you gotta be careful is a lot of companies sell it as a capsule, right? As mastic gum as a capsule.

Joe Rogan 24:53 Oh.

Ben Greenfield 24:53 But you want the actual gum that you chew on. That's the exact one I have, that Krinos.

Joe Rogan 24:57 So, it is an extract?

Ben Greenfield 24:57 Mastic gum. Yeah, yeah. And that's, that's the stuff that you actually chew.

Joe Rogan 25:02 Hmm.

Ben Greenfield 25:03 To make your jaw stronger.

Joe Rogan 25:04 Hmm.

Ben Greenfield 25:04 Yeah. And to produce extra saliva.

Joe Rogan 25:07 Huh. And do you use this stuff when you work out? Or are you just occasionally chewing?

Ben Greenfield 25:11 Hmm, no, I don't like to have gum in my mouth when I'm working out.

Joe Rogan 25:13 You seem like you have so many different things going on-

Ben Greenfield 25:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:16 ... and so many different modalities that you're experimenting with, there's no way you can possibly-

Ben Greenfield 25:18 Yeah, but that's, that's my shit, dude.

Joe Rogan 25:20 ... do 'em all the time. I know. (laughs)

Ben Greenfield 25:20 That's what, that's what I do, is I try stuff and I write about it. It's not like-

Joe Rogan 25:24 (laughs) Whoo!

Ben Greenfield 25:24 It's not like I'm doing mastic gum and blank ab powder-

Joe Rogan 25:26 I know.

Ben Greenfield 25:27 ... and, and, and injections all day long. And I don't have a life.

Joe Rogan 25:29 But if the mastic gum works-

Ben Greenfield 25:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:31 ... I would think you'd keep doing it all the time. But it's just like-

Ben Greenfield 25:34 You forget about a lot of stuff, though.

Joe Rogan 25:36 (laughs)

Ben Greenfield 25:36 You try out so many things that you forget about it. You're like, "Oh yeah, I tried that out a while ago, it was pretty good. I need to order some more of that." So yeah, you start to... I lose track of all the, all the stuff I try.

Joe Rogan 25:44 Right.

Ben Greenfield 25:44 I don't have it all systematized in some big Excel spreadsheet.

Joe Rogan 25:47 What are you doing with the exosomes? Explain that, because, uh-

Ben Greenfield 25:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:49 ... I just got some shot into some tears that I have in my shoulders. And, uh-

Ben Greenfield 25:53 You, you got... It, it's, it's, it's exosomes.

Joe Rogan 25:56 Exosomes.

Ben Greenfield 25:56 Exosomes, they're signaling molecules. So, your body actually has them. Your, your cells have exosomes, and they're used as cell-to-cell communicators.

Joe Rogan 26:06 Mm-hmm.

Ben Greenfield 26:06 So, they interact with cell surface receptors, and they'll actually carry a message from one cell to another, such as, you know, uh, you know, you need to, you need to absorb this into the cell, or you need to carry this to a joint, or, you know, whatever you'd wanna use an exosome for, to carry messages throughout the body. It's part of your, I believe it's referred to as the paracrine system, right? Your, your body's internal cellular communication system. So, the idea is that if you combined the exosomes with other therapies, like, like, uh, platelet-rich plasma injections, which you do for, to increase the amount of growth factors available-

Joe Rogan 26:39 That's what they did with me.

Ben Greenfield 26:40 ... to a specific joint. They did exosomes plus PRP with you.

Joe Rogan 26:43 Right.

Ben Greenfield 26:44 Which I, I, I can, I can tell you the full procedure that I did, but I just got that all over my face. My face five days ago was red and swollen, because it was covered with exosomes and PRP injections.

Joe Rogan 26:55 Why'd you do it on your face?

Ben Greenfield 26:55 It's a, it's a beauty procedure.

Joe Rogan 26:57 You're beautiful as you are.

Ben Greenfield 26:58 Yeah. Thank you, thank you.

Joe Rogan 26:59 You don't need to change.

Ben Greenfield 27:00 But now... But now I'm a beautiful 13-year-old-

Joe Rogan 27:02 (laughs)

Ben Greenfield 27:02 ... not a beautiful 37-year-old. So, the, uh, the exosomes can be combined with other things like PRP, and also with stem cells or with bone marrow. And that's what I did. And, and the interesting thing is that you can get something like a, a placental cell, right? And, and in my case, they actually took placental cells from this lab called Chimera Labs. I had this procedure done in Park City, Utah, this guy named Dr. Harry Adelson. And he, he had these placental cells from Chimera Labs. They destroy the placental cell, so that there's no actual DNA from some other person that you're putting into your body, right? Which is, which is the... that's considered to be part of the risk of stem cells. Even umbilical or amniotic, you're still getting somebody else's DNA into your body, not your own DNA. So, the idea is that you would take exosomes that you've isolated from something like a placental tissue, and then you would mix those with your own stem cells. In this case, what I used was, uh, was bone marrow aspirate. They went into, into both of my iliac crests, they took out the bone marrow, they mixed it with the exosomes, and, and these, these videos... I published both of the videos on YouTube, and, and they're... It's like a, it's like a huge syringe full of blood.

Joe Rogan 28:21 Go, go to his YouTube channel.

Ben Greenfield 28:22 You see me drawing it out, you can see it-

Joe Rogan 28:22 I'm gonna see this.

Ben Greenfield 28:22 ... drawing it out of my hip.

Joe Rogan 28:23 How much bone marrow-

Ben Greenfield 28:24 And-

Joe Rogan 28:24 ... are they taking out of your hip?

Ben Greenfield 28:25 A lot.

Joe Rogan 28:26 A lot?

Ben Greenfield 28:26 I was... Well, I was out, you know, I was heavily sedated during the entire procedure.

Joe Rogan 28:29 Oof.

Ben Greenfield 28:29 Well, not heavily sedated, I mean, it was... I was under. It was-

Joe Rogan 28:31 All right.

Ben Greenfield 28:31 It wasn't general anesthesia. It's called full-body sedation, apparently it's similar-

Joe Rogan 28:36 So, you're conscious?

Ben Greenfield 28:36 ... to general anesthesia, with few of the risks of the actual anesthesia. Uh, I was not conscious. Not that I... I mean, all I remember is they said, "Count from 100 down to zero," and I got to like 93, and then I woke up.

Joe Rogan 28:48 Boink.

Ben Greenfield 28:48 Yeah, exactly. So, they took the bone marrow from the iliac crests, right? Which is just like bone broth for your whole body. It's got collagen, it's got peptides, it's got stem cells. They mix it with the exosomes, which act as the cell-

Joe Rogan 29:02 And where are they getting the exosomes?

Ben Greenfield 29:02 ... the cell communicators from those placental cells, this place called Chimera Labs, which in my opinion-

Joe Rogan 29:08 Okay.

Ben Greenfield 29:08 ... is just a great sexy name for some kind of a mysterious lab company where you buy placentas.

Joe Rogan 29:12 Mm-hmm.

Ben Greenfield 29:13 So basically, they, uh, they mix the exosomes with the bone marrow, and then what they do-

Joe Rogan 29:18 There you are. Oh.

Ben Greenfield 29:19 Yeah. See, that's what it looks like.

Joe Rogan 29:20 That's in your ass.

Ben Greenfield 29:21 That... Yeah. That's the-

Joe Rogan 29:22 They're taking it out of your ass, bro.

Ben Greenfield 29:23 That's one of the iliac crests. You asked me how much they took.

Joe Rogan 29:25 Whoo! Look how much they're pulling out of you.

Ben Greenfield 29:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:26 Holy shit.

Ben Greenfield 29:27 A lot of it.

Joe Rogan 29:27 That's bone marrow?

Ben Greenfield 29:29 But he did that like four times, 'cause he did it twice to each hip.

Joe Rogan 29:32 Dude, are you fucking shitting me?

Ben Greenfield 29:33 This was five days ago. He told me I was supposed to not do anything for two weeks, but I did that Spartan Race. I armored myself up.

Joe Rogan 29:40 Well, why didn't you listen to him?

Ben Greenfield 29:42 I just put... Well, I, uh, I was signed up for the race, and I had sponsor obligations to actually not-

Joe Rogan 29:47 Oh, dude. Sponsors can suck my fat dick.

Ben Greenfield 29:50 ... take it out. I, I did comm-

Joe Rogan 29:50 'Cause that looks like a fat dick they're pulling out of you, that's how big it is.

Ben Greenfield 29:53 I used, I used like four rolls of rock tape.

Joe Rogan 29:55 Dude.

Ben Greenfield 29:55 My entire body was just taped up, 'cause I didn't want to ruin anything that he'd done. So anyways, he, he did-

Joe Rogan 30:01 How come... Wait a minute, what do you mean by rock tape? What is rock tape?

Ben Greenfield 30:03 Kinesio tape, you've seen this stuff before. It's, it's like what you see CrossFitters wearing and Olympians wearing.

Joe Rogan 30:08 Oh, that stuff like when you have like tendonitis and shit?

Ben Greenfield 30:10 Yeah, yeah. It supports, it supports the joints. Um-

Joe Rogan 30:12 Oh, Jesus, they're going in for another tube after they sucked that out?

Ben Greenfield 30:14 They did, they did four of those, four of those big tubes.

Joe Rogan 30:17 Huh? How much... Jamie, how much-

Ben Greenfield 30:18 This is-

Joe Rogan 30:18 ... do you think you have in your body? Do you think you have four tubes of marrow floating around someone could pull out of you? I don't... What? Yeah. (laughs)

Ben Greenfield 30:25 Uh, but, well, the tubes also, you know this... When you give blood-

Joe Rogan 30:28 Yeah, this is crazy, dude.

Ben Greenfield 30:28 ... you can give like 19 tubes of blood, but it's not as much blood as it actually looks like, 'cause it's inside of that little skinny tube.

Joe Rogan 30:33 Right. No, I get that.

Ben Greenfield 30:35 So, so he and his partner-

Joe Rogan 30:36 Seems like quite a lot.

Ben Greenfield 30:37 What they did was he went with, with that bone marrow...Mix with the exosomes, they mix it with ozone, which apparently using an ozonator, which apparently increases the efficacy of the bone marrow.

Jamie Vernon 30:49 And you're doing this for a no specific injury?

Ben Greenfield 30:52 No specific injury, no. This is all just for... Well, for two reasons. Number one, anti-aging. Number two, just immersive journalism.

Jamie Vernon 30:59 Mm-hmm.

Ben Greenfield 31:00 Just to write about.

Jamie Vernon 31:00 Right, right.

Ben Greenfield 31:01 I think this stuff's fun to write about and look into and study.

Jamie Vernon 31:03 Right.

Ben Greenfield 31:03 So... And-

Jamie Vernon 31:04 Jesus.

Ben Greenfield 31:04 And apparently, these stem cells stay ... So, so into- this is an over-exaggeration, but it's almost like you'd be like Wolverine, where like you recover faster when you get hurt-

Jamie Vernon 31:12 Mm-hmm.

Ben Greenfield 31:12 ... for the rest of your life.

Jamie Vernon 31:14 So here he goes pulling out round two.

Ben Greenfield 31:16 Yeah, yeah.

Jamie Vernon 31:17 Oh.

Ben Greenfield 31:17 For people who are listening to the audio and not watching the video, uh, it's-

Jamie Vernon 31:20 It's like a horse dick.

Ben Greenfield 31:21 Yeah. It's-

Jamie Vernon 31:21 They're pulling a horse dick out of him.

Ben Greenfield 31:22 It's a lot of blood. And, uh, then he injected my entire musculoskeletal system.

Jamie Vernon 31:28 Oh.

Ben Greenfield 31:28 He did my cerebral spinal fluid, he did all up and down the discs in my back.

Jamie Vernon 31:33 Jesus.

Ben Greenfield 31:33 He did... Yeah.

Jamie Vernon 31:34 Whoa, daddy.

Ben Greenfield 31:35 Yeah, I've got-

Jamie Vernon 31:35 And you... Are you conscious here?

Ben Greenfield 31:36 I've got needles... No, dude, I'm totally out.

Jamie Vernon 31:39 You're not. You're-

Ben Greenfield 31:39 I would not want to be conscious for... I was just box breathing, yeah. I was meditating. Um, no I'm-

Jamie Vernon 31:43 Well, because I've had-

Ben Greenfield 31:43 ... I'm totally out for this.

Jamie Vernon 31:45 ... Regenaking done like this.

Ben Greenfield 31:45 And you can see there, I have... I have the Ironman corporate logo on my back.

Jamie Vernon 31:50 Is that what that is?

Ben Greenfield 31:50 So I did... Yeah, technically that's trademark infringement. It's the Ironman logo.

Jamie Vernon 31:54 (laughs)

Ben Greenfield 31:54 They should be paying me for that.

Jamie Vernon 31:54 I had, um, Regenaking done in my, uh, spine like that.

Ben Greenfield 31:58 Yeah.

Jamie Vernon 31:58 And bulging discs while I was awake.

Ben Greenfield 32:01 Yeah. So-

Jamie Vernon 32:01 It just feels weird. They just... It just... They have to increase the pressure.

Ben Greenfield 32:03 And I've done a lot of this stuff before. I mean I- I had my... I told you this last time, I had my stem cells taken out of the fat in my back down in Florida.

Jamie Vernon 32:09 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 32:10 And then, uh, I re-injected them intravenously.

Jamie Vernon 32:13 Ooh.

Ben Greenfield 32:13 And then I tested my telomere length.

Jamie Vernon 32:15 Look at this, look at this, look at this, look at this.

Ben Greenfield 32:16 Yeah.

Jamie Vernon 32:17 They just...

Ben Greenfield 32:18 Oh, this goes on for hours, dude.

Jamie Vernon 32:19 And so-

Ben Greenfield 32:19 Like I was there for, for three or four hours during this procedure.

Jamie Vernon 32:21 So they just screw it in and pump those in.

Ben Greenfield 32:24 Yeah. Uh-huh.

Jamie Vernon 32:24 And then find a new hole.

Ben Greenfield 32:26 Yeah.

Jamie Vernon 32:26 And this is... You're totally out cold while they do all this.

Ben Greenfield 32:27 I'm totally out cold. My wife's in there freaking out. She can see her somewhere in there holding the camera.

Jamie Vernon 32:31 Fucking A, dude.

Ben Greenfield 32:32 She was, she was doing a Facebook Live and answering questions as we went.

Jamie Vernon 32:35 Jesus!

Ben Greenfield 32:35 So then... So get this, his partner comes in and she takes those same exosomes after he does ankles, knees, hips, elbows, wrists, back, every part of my... There they flip me over. My wife's-

Jamie Vernon 32:48 While you're out cold.

Ben Greenfield 32:49 Yeah, my wife said that was the... That was the weirdest part, was they flip me over and I'm just-

Jamie Vernon 32:52 You're moving.

Ben Greenfield 32:52 ... limp like a noodle. I think she's moving my hand. See that? So, uh, then his partner came in and she's like a sexual performance and beauty specialist. And I don't want this to turn into another podcast about just injecting things into your dick.

Jamie Vernon 33:06 But...

Ben Greenfield 33:06 But she did... Uh, yeah, butt.

Jamie Vernon 33:08 (laughs)

Ben Greenfield 33:08 She did... Uh, she, she injected the, the corpus cavernosum, which is the, the shaft of your unit, and then she did the head of the penis. And then she did... (laughs)

Jamie Vernon 33:21 Dude, what are they doing to your face here, man?

Ben Greenfield 33:23 Then she did... Then, then she did my face over and over and over again everywhere, exosomes all over my face. And, uh, I've seen some 50 and 60-year-old women who have done this, and it actually does seem to have a pretty significant effect. I don't, I don't know how much of an effect it had on me, but I said if they were gonna put me under just... He called it a full body stem cell makeover. Apparently nobody's ever in the history of the world done this before.

Jamie Vernon 33:46 Oh my God, dude.

Ben Greenfield 33:47 So if I, if I die, that's the one thing I can brag about. Um-

Jamie Vernon 33:49 You look great. This is what I don't understand. You don't need this shit.

Ben Greenfield 33:53 No, a lot of the... Well, like I said, a lot of-

Jamie Vernon 33:54 You're not Tommy Lee Jones here.

Ben Greenfield 33:55 A lot of this stuff is, uh, it's, it's interesting to write stories about and to talk about and tell people what it's like.

Jamie Vernon 34:01 Mm. I get it.

Ben Greenfield 34:02 The, um... And then they did, uh, yeah, they did that on the face.

Jamie Vernon 34:06 What are they doing on your face here?

Ben Greenfield 34:07 And, uh, that's, that's the-

Jamie Vernon 34:09 What is... What is that?

Ben Greenfield 34:09 That's exosomes mixed with PRP.

Jamie Vernon 34:11 And what is that device-

Ben Greenfield 34:12 That they inject all into the face.

Jamie Vernon 34:13 ... that he's doing it with? What is that thing?

Ben Greenfield 34:15 I don't remember because I wasn't awake.

Jamie Vernon 34:17 Right, but it's-

Ben Greenfield 34:18 But it's... Yeah.

Jamie Vernon 34:18 It looks like a... Like it's got little needles all over it.

Ben Greenfield 34:20 I, I think it might be some kind of like dermal abrasion type of thing. I'm not sure.

Jamie Vernon 34:24 Yeah, they're fucking your face up, man. Ooh.

Ben Greenfield 34:26 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, th- this was a few days ago and-

Jamie Vernon 34:29 How many days?

Ben Greenfield 34:29 I feel like I healed... Five days ago.

Jamie Vernon 34:31 Wow.

Ben Greenfield 34:31 Yeah, yeah. So I healed up pretty quickly from it.

Jamie Vernon 34:33 That's crazy because-

Ben Greenfield 34:34 Yeah.

Jamie Vernon 34:35 ... five days ago-

Ben Greenfield 34:36 I, I had, I had-

Jamie Vernon 34:36 ... was when I was doing my exosomes.

Ben Greenfield 34:37 I had to wear a... Oh, great minds think alike.

Jamie Vernon 34:41 Dude, that's-

Ben Greenfield 34:41 Yeah.

Jamie Vernon 34:41 That is crazy. That's... What are the odds?

Ben Greenfield 34:43 Yeah, actually what day is it today?

Jamie Vernon 34:44 I don't know.

Ben Greenfield 34:45 It's Tuesday. So this was Tu- actually th- no, seven.

Jamie Vernon 34:48 Mine was six.

Ben Greenfield 34:48 Seven days ago, seven days ago.

Jamie Vernon 34:50 Mine was Wednesday.

Ben Greenfield 34:51 Yeah. Um, anyways though-

Jamie Vernon 34:53 They're fucking your face up, son.

Ben Greenfield 34:54 Yeah.

Jamie Vernon 34:55 Woo.

Ben Greenfield 34:55 And I had... I actually had just gotten a, a concussion 'cause I got in a bike accident when I was down in Austin, Texas a couple weeks ago. And so the other thing that... This is interesting because you, you... With... For a TBI, there's all sorts of things you can do, right? Like ketones, exogenous ketones work really well for that. And that's a lot of Dominick D'Agostino's research on concussions. Uh, DHA is another good one. Hyperbaric oxygen therapy chambers, right? With the, with the high oxygen plus the high pressure. That's really efficacious for concussions. But the other thing is stem cells. And so what I did was I ordered the stem cells that they harvested from my body in Florida 'cause I got... I think I told you about that the last time when I was on the show.

Jamie Vernon 35:35 Mm-hmm.

Ben Greenfield 35:36 They store... I have like 30 injections of my own stem cells stored down in Florida that I can use for, for joints, for anti-aging. And I also... One of the reasons that I did that was if I'm ever in a car accident or if I ever get some, some traumatic injury, I can, I can heal myself faster with these stem cells. And, and that happened. I got a concussion. I was riding my bike in Austin on, on 1st Street in, in rush hour traffic and a car clipped me on the side and I made love to the pavement. My entire face got torn open and, uh, and I got a concussion. So I did all of these things, you know, ketones, DHA, hyperbaric, um, uh, PEMF. That's also really, really good for concussions.

Jamie Vernon 36:14 What's that?

Ben Greenfield 36:14 Pulsed electromagnetic field therapy. Uh, it's, it's, uh, uh, it, it, it's, uh, used for anti-inflammatory, uh, for, uh, it's, it's used for sleep. You know, it's kinda like grounding and earthing. There's a lot of interesting studies on PEMF, also for concussion. Uh, it enhances your own stem cell production and shuts down neural inflammation. So I did that, but then also, uh, stem cells won't cross your blood-brain barrier, so I ordered up this stuff called Mannitol.And if you inject mannitol into your bloodstream, it increases your blood-brain barrier permeability. So this is what you do in a, in a fighter or football player, somebody gets a concussion, you inject with mannitol first and then you follow that up with a stem cell injection. If the mannitol's already in the bloodstream, the stem cells cross the blood-brain barrier and they go in to heal neural tissue.

Joe Rogan 37:02 Would the exosomes cross the blood-brain barrier 'cause they're smaller-

Ben Greenfield 37:05 They're very small.

Joe Rogan 37:06 ... than stem cells?

Ben Greenfield 37:06 They're very small.

Joe Rogan 37:07 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 37:08 I, I think they're like 100 to 200 nanometers, which is pretty small.

Joe Rogan 37:11 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 37:11 And I would not be surprised if they cross the blood-brain barrier-

Joe Rogan 37:14 Mm.

Ben Greenfield 37:14 ... as well.

Joe Rogan 37:14 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 37:15 You know?

Joe Rogan 37:15 One of the things that they were saying about stem cells versus exosomes is that stem cells tend to get pooled up in the lungs.

Ben Greenfield 37:21 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 37:21 They, they don't pass the lungs and they get absorbed-

Ben Greenfield 37:24 Right.

Joe Rogan 37:24 ... there. And they believe that the exosomes being released by these stem cells-

Ben Greenfield 37:28 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 37:28 ... are the, the reason why you generate and regenerate tissue. They think that going straight to exosomes is gonna be more efficacious than just going with stem cells themselves.

Ben Greenfield 37:38 I, I think that some pharmaceutical company or some supplement company is gonna make a lot of money in the next 10 years by figuring out a way to, to make exosomes or figure out, you know, some, some way to, to do it in a way that is more available to the general population than, you know, harvesting it from placentas in, you know, some-

Joe Rogan 37:56 Right.

Ben Greenfield 37:56 ... crazy lab, you know, overseas.

Joe Rogan 37:57 So you weren't supposed to do anything-

Ben Greenfield 37:59 So-

Joe Rogan 37:59 ... for two weeks.

Ben Greenfield 38:00 Not for two weeks, but I asked the doc, you know, I told him I was gonna do a-

Joe Rogan 38:03 Right.

Ben Greenfield 38:03 ... Spartan Race and he sa- he said, "Proceed at your own risk." And he said-

Joe Rogan 38:05 What would be the risk?

Ben Greenfield 38:06 And, and my plan... Apparently if you jar the joints a lot when they're already kinda weak from the surgery, you can risk tearing a ligament, spraining, straining, doing damage to a muscle that, that's kinda weak and lax from the surgery.

Joe Rogan 38:18 Oh. From the surgery?

Ben Greenfield 38:18 So... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:18 But is it a really a surgery 'cause they're not cutting you open.

Ben Greenfield 38:21 No, the, the, the injections-

Joe Rogan 38:22 Procedure.

Ben Greenfield 38:22 And I, I sprained my ankle within a few hours after, after waking up from the surgery. Like I, I just kinda stumbled and it was extremely lax, you know, almost like a, like a pregnant woman creates this hormone called relaxin, right? And they get more flexible and they're able to give birth more quickly. It's kinda that same idea, is the-

Joe Rogan 38:37 Really?

Ben Greenfield 38:37 ... joints, the joints and the ligaments become more lax. So my whole body felt a little bit more like, like Gumby. That's what, that was why I taped up everything, you know. I had knee braces on and elbow braces and wrist braces, and I felt fine during the race.

Joe Rogan 38:48 And this-

Ben Greenfield 38:49 But-

Joe Rogan 38:49 ... whole procedure was how many hours?

Ben Greenfield 38:51 It was about four hours. Four hours, uh-

Joe Rogan 38:53 Four hours out cold.

Ben Greenfield 38:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:54 Shaking up.

Ben Greenfield 38:55 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:55 What does it feel like-

Ben Greenfield 38:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:56 ... when you wake up?

Ben Greenfield 38:57 Oh, there's a pretty funny video I posted. I, I wa- I thought it was funny. I was trying to speak French.

Joe Rogan 39:02 (laughs)

Ben Greenfield 39:02 I told my wife, I'm like, "I have a confession to make." And the doctor's like, "Uh-oh, here we go."

Joe Rogan 39:07 (laughs)

Ben Greenfield 39:08 (laughs) And I'm like, "I speak French." And then she, and then she asked me if I speak French and I s- uh, I didn't actually speak French. And then you could see me trying to laugh like I'd made a joke.

Joe Rogan 39:19 But you were just out-

Ben Greenfield 39:19 But it seemed... Have you ever been sedated?

Joe Rogan 39:21 Yes.

Ben Greenfield 39:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:22 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 39:22 Yeah, you, you're kinda loopy-

Joe Rogan 39:23 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 39:23 ... when you wake up. Yeah. So I don't remember that much. But, uh, and I, and I still, uh, I mean, I'll be honest with you, I don't notice much of a difference from any of this stuff.

Joe Rogan 39:31 Well, it's supposed to take-

Ben Greenfield 39:32 'Cause it's almost-

Joe Rogan 39:32 ... six weeks-

Ben Greenfield 39:32 Yeah, it's supposed to take-

Joe Rogan 39:33 ... for it really-

Ben Greenfield 39:33 ... a long time before it really kicks in.

Joe Rogan 39:35 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 39:35 And it flares up old injuries, where like I-

Joe Rogan 39:37 Really?

Ben Greenfield 39:38 ... strained my upper hamstring when I played tennis and that's flared up. Uh, my left knee is flared up. Like I'm feeling old injuries that have-

Joe Rogan 39:45 Flared up.

Ben Greenfield 39:46 ... they've almost-

Joe Rogan 39:46 That's interesting.

Ben Greenfield 39:46 They almost like brought back, not flared up like it's red and inflamed and swollen, but I feel it. I feel-

Joe Rogan 39:51 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 39:51 ... uh, my right ankle, which I strained a lot when I was, when I was playing tennis, that one feels, you know, it feels, like I mentioned, it's weak, it's painful.

Joe Rogan 39:58 And they told-

Ben Greenfield 39:58 I've restrained it.

Joe Rogan 39:58 ... you that this was gonna be something that could-

Ben Greenfield 39:59 They said that it could flare up old injuries, that you'd feel worse before you feel better.

Joe Rogan 40:04 Huh.

Ben Greenfield 40:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:05 That's interesting. I didn't hear that at all.

Ben Greenfield 40:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:07 Um, but I did hear that six weeks.

Ben Greenfield 40:08 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 40:09 Six weeks is the, the benchmark.

Ben Greenfield 40:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:10 When you start feeling-

Ben Greenfield 40:10 It's, it's a little bit of time before you actually feel better.

Joe Rogan 40:13 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 40:13 Yeah. The other interesting one, uh, for, uh, not only enhancing your own endogenous stem cell production, because i- it actually would... (sighs) You know, a lot of this stuff, it's fringe, it's expensive. I mean, you know, that procedure I think is like a $30,000 procedure. Not everybody's gonna go out and do that. And th- this is another fringe one, but I wanna, I mean, there are ways that you can endogenously increase your own stem cell production, I mean, and, and your own stem cell viability and health without actually d- doing stem cell injections. Um, fasting is probably the, the one that's the most efficacious. You know, a lot of these things that are kind of uncomfortable for you seem to increase your body's ability to be able to heal or produce-

Joe Rogan 40:50 Hmm.

Ben Greenfield 40:50 ... its own stem cells. So, fasting for long periods of time. Um, not necessarily fasting with, with caloric, uh, restriction. I think that's the mistake a lot of people make. They try to fast and they feel like crap. But the idea is the benefits of fasting don't come from not eating a lot of calories. Not eating a lot of calories isn't that great for your thyroid, it's not great for your metabolism. You don't wanna live till you're, you know, 120 and be cold and, and thin and hungry the whole time 'cause that'd be a horrible way to live a long time. So the idea with, you know, things like, uh, you know, Valter Longo's research or a lot of these, these, uh, intermittent fasting type of diets is you fast and you increase cellular autophagy and stem cell production, your own stem cell production, by going for long periods of time without eating, and the magic seems to kick in at about the 16-hour mark. So I do 12 to 16 hours every day, and then you get even more benefit once you get up to about 24 hours. So I try to do a 24-hour fast from Saturday dinner to Sunday dinner. But I'm still eating the same number of calories. It's just a compressed feeding window.

Joe Rogan 41:51 Mm.

Ben Greenfield 41:52 Right? So, so it's not like you're starving yourself. You're getting all the benefits of fasting, but you're still maintaining some amount of anabolism, right? Because you're, you're still eating as many calories, but you're, you're almost giving your body, your gut, and your metabolism a break in between a lot of these meals.

Joe Rogan 42:07 Mm. And that's-

Ben Greenfield 42:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:08 ... where the benefit comes from?

Ben Greenfield 42:09 That's where the bene- the benefits are not from, you know, not eating so much damn food. The benefits are going for a long time in between your feedings, right? So, so the idea is, you know, you, you'd wake up and, and in the, the population for which this seems to be the most deleterious are lean, active females. They do not respond well to these long fasts or a lot of time spent doing intermittent fasting. It's like the cons outweigh the pro.

Joe Rogan 42:33 Hmm.

Ben Greenfield 42:33 For that population. But for, for most everybody else, these 12 to 16-hour fasts, preferably up to 16 hours, going without eating and then eating as many calories as you'd normally eat...... with the exception-

Joe Rogan 42:45 So, do you compress the, the amount of calories and-

Ben Greenfield 42:47 It's a- It's a compressed feeding window, right? So, um, you know, what, the guy whose house I was staying with when I was doing the stem cell procedure, Dan Pomp, he's very into this stuff and, and he's, he's a doctor down in, uh, um, uh, Park City. And he just, he goes all day and then he has a huge dinner at the end of the day.

Joe Rogan 43:04 Mm.

Ben Greenfield 43:04 Right? Like a, an enormous, lovely dinner, you know? A couple glasses of wine and, you know, steak and-

Joe Rogan 43:08 Thousands of calories.

Ben Greenfield 43:09 ... sweet potatoes and-

Joe Rogan 43:10 One meal.

Ben Greenfield 43:10 Yeah, like 3,000 calories for dinner, and I'm more of, like, a two meal, uh, you know, light breakfast or light lunch, and then just two meals.

Joe Rogan 43:16 I've been doing the 12 to 14 hour thing and sometimes I ramp it up to 16 hours, and I, I do feel better when I do that, and I, I definitely, uh, become more accustomed to not eating for long stretches.

Ben Greenfield 43:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:27 And sometimes when I wake up in the morning, I almost think, "Should I just eat?" But I, then I'll stop and I'll go, "Well, I'm not really hungry."

Ben Greenfield 43:33 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 43:33 I mean, it's really just a matter of habit, a force of habit that I'm even considering eating right now.

Ben Greenfield 43:37 Yeah. Yeah, but, but fasting is probably one of the better ways to increase your own endogenous stem cell production, provided you're going for about 16 hours and provided you're still eating as many calories as you normally eat. The only kinda caveat to that would be protein cycling, right? This is why I'm not a huge fan of the, the carnivorous diet where you're eating four to six pounds of meat a day.

Joe Rogan 43:58 Yeah, you were-

Ben Greenfield 43:58 Um-

Joe Rogan 43:59 ... trying that for a while. You were putting that on your social media.

Ben Greenfield 44:02 Mm ... I, I-

Joe Rogan 44:02 Sort of, but you had some vegetables mixed in.

Ben Greenfield 44:03 I was sort- I was eating one of those big steaks every single night for dinner, just like a bunch of steak every single night for dinner.

Joe Rogan 44:11 For how long?

Ben Greenfield 44:11 And this was, like, 10 days. Not that long. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:13 How'd you feel doing that?

Ben Greenfield 44:14 I felt pretty good. But, uh, but I love steak. I was eating these bone-in, uh, bone-in ribeyes. I order them up from, uh, uh, Missouri, I think is where their farms are, but they make these, uh, French-cut, grass-fed, grass-finished, bone-in ribeye steaks-

Joe Rogan 44:32 I'm getting hungry-

Ben Greenfield 44:33 ... and they're-

Joe Rogan 44:33 ... just saying that.

Ben Greenfield 44:34 Dude, I've got-

Joe Rogan 44:35 Getting excited.

Ben Greenfield 44:35 I've ... Remind me, I'll tell you how I cook them. Maybe I'll tell you how I cook them after we- after we finish the science of the-

Joe Rogan 44:40 Why? You don't want to? Okay. (laughs)

Ben Greenfield 44:40 ... of the carnivore diet 'cause, 'cause I don't wanna get ... 'Cause I'll, I'll just forget everything if I start talking about cooking.

Joe Rogan 44:45 Okay.

Ben Greenfield 44:45 'Cause I, I love to-

Joe Rogan 44:46 So, go into science.

Ben Greenfield 44:46 I love to prepare meat. So, so, real quick-

Joe Rogan 44:47 'Cause I know quite a few people that are doing this now.

Ben Greenfield 44:50 Yeah. So, real quick, and then we'll talk about how to make these steaks taste really good. Um, the, the idea is that protein cycling, right? Having a meatless Monday or having, as a lot of religions would do, like the, the Eastern Orthodoxy Church or the Mediterranean diet, they have certain periods of time where there's complete meat restriction or your protein intake is restricted to, to fish and eggs, for example. And the idea is that you would strike a sweet spot between not being in a constantly anabolic state, right? And, and not having, having this, uh, mammalian target of rapamycin constantly activated, which would theoretically accelerate aging, or, or in, in a lot of, you know, rodent models, we see that, you know, unrestricted protein feeding actually causes aging to accelerate. So, the idea is on your lower activity days, especially for an athlete, you could still intermittent fast and get all the benefits of that, and you could still eat as many calories as you would need to sustain a normal, healthy metabolism, right? So, so you're not starving yourself, but on the less active days, you would shift to a lower protein intake, right? So, you're talking about, like, 0.5 grams per pound of body weight rather than what a typical athlete would need, which would be, depending on who you ask, you know, 0.7 to 0.85 grams per pound of body weight, right? So, so there's some days where you're high protein, some days where you're low protein. Some periods of the week, such as a meatless Monday, or some periods of the year, you know, such as every quarter, you know, for a week where you're eating a plant-based diet, or you're restricting meat. You're basically giving your body a break from being in that constant anabolic state. And I think that the, the carnivore diet causes a lot of people to miss out on some of those elements. And then if you look at the blood work of a, um, you know, that doctor who does the carnivore diet-

Joe Rogan 46:34 Jon Baker.

Ben Greenfield 46:34 He published his blood work online.

Joe Rogan 46:36 Mm-hmm.

Ben Greenfield 46:36 And I don't know what else is, is going on with him from a health standpoint, but, but you know, he had really high blood glucose and really low testosterone, and some things that suggest that it might not be healthy to eat just meat, you know? And, and did even-

Joe Rogan 46:50 Did he have really low testosterone? That's interesting.

Ben Greenfield 46:51 It was like 200 to 300. It was pre-

Joe Rogan 46:53 Really?

Ben Greenfield 46:53 ... it was pretty low. It was, like, it's like-

Joe Rogan 46:54 That's really low.

Ben Greenfield 46:55 Yeah, diagnosable hypogonadism combined with, uh, uh, you know, almost, like, borderline diabetes, right? And-

Joe Rogan 47:01 Did, did he ... Is it possible he did it after a workout?

Ben Greenfield 47:04 Uh, uh-

Joe Rogan 47:05 He does a lot of rowing.

Ben Greenfield 47:06 I'm not sure a workout-

Joe Rogan 47:06 Like, real high-intensity.

Ben Greenfield 47:07 ... would suppress your testosterone that significantly. It would increase your hsCRP and your inflammatory markers, right? Which is why-

Joe Rogan 47:13 Mm-hmm.

Ben Greenfield 47:13 ... you never wanna, you never wanna go to a doctor for a heart checkup after you've done a workout 'cause they're gonna tell you you're gonna have a heart attack based on the levels of hsCRP that you have.

Joe Rogan 47:20 Right.

Ben Greenfield 47:21 But, uh, you know, that blood work is just one example, and I don't wanna pretend like that one example, you know, is gonna, you know, paint with a broad brush the entire-

Joe Rogan 47:29 Right.

Ben Greenfield 47:29 ... carnivore diet phenomenon. But I just, I think that unrestricted protein intake and unrestricted meat intake probably has an accelerated aging effect on the body, and-

Joe Rogan 47:38 Well, here's the difference.

Ben Greenfield 47:39 Dr. Ron Rosedale is a doc who has some good information on that. He's got a good video online.

Joe Rogan 47:44 What's going on with this carnivore diet is there's no science behind it. There's a lot of people that are giving it a shot.

Ben Greenfield 47:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:49 A lot of people are finding good results, but I find that-

Ben Greenfield 47:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:51 ... people, when they just change things, there's a period of time where they say they feel great and, uh, that is absolutely-

Ben Greenfield 47:58 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:58 ... 100% a placebo effect.

Ben Greenfield 48:00 It's the same thing as, like, a vegan diet. You feel fantastic-

Joe Rogan 48:03 Right.

Ben Greenfield 48:03 ... and, you know, name me ... Well, name me one population, one blue zone-... that eats meat, like, and nothing else, right? And there's, there's actually very few centenarians who are purely vegan for their entire life, because you can, if you don't do it the right way, build up fatty acid deficits, amino acid deficits. Creatine is one-

Joe Rogan 48:24 Mm-hmm.

Ben Greenfield 48:24 ... you don't get. Vitamin B12, uh, DHA, uh-

Joe Rogan 48:27 But at least there's been studies-

Ben Greenfield 48:28 ... taurine.

Joe Rogan 48:29 ... on vegans.

Ben Greenfield 48:30 Right.

Joe Rogan 48:30 There's been a lot of studies on vegans and th- we know that if you eat, uh, like, E3 Live, you-

Ben Greenfield 48:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:36 ... you know, you-

Ben Greenfield 48:36 Oh, you can, you can supplement.

Joe Rogan 48:38 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 48:38 There's a lot of really smart vegans. I mean, there's guys like-

Joe Rogan 48:40 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 48:40 ... Rich Roll.

Joe Rogan 48:40 Right.

Ben Greenfield 48:41 Like, they do things the right away, right?

Joe Rogan 48:42 Right, you eat algae.

Ben Greenfield 48:42 I mean, it's, it's labor- it's a lot easier to just eat a piece of meat, right?

Joe Rogan 48:45 It's very labor- yeah, it's very laborious.

Ben Greenfield 48:46 To, to get some of the B12 and some of-

Joe Rogan 48:47 Right.

Ben Greenfield 48:47 ... the other amino acids you're trying to free up-

Joe Rogan 48:49 Right.

Ben Greenfield 48:49 ... by soaking and sprouting and fermenting.

Joe Rogan 48:51 Right.

Ben Greenfield 48:51 Which my wife does a lot of, eh, eh, but I watch her. Like, she, she's in the kitchen, like, three hours a day making vegetables bioavailable.

Joe Rogan 48:59 Is your wife vegan?

Ben Greenfield 49:00 You know, it takes her hours to make sourdough bread, you know, to actually make a bread where the gluten is pre-digested and it's actually healthy and the glycemic index is lower. She's not vegan, she's just a rancher girl, and she likes to-

Joe Rogan 49:10 Do cow stuff like that.

Ben Greenfield 49:10 ... you know, we, we have goats and chickens and, and we eat meat. But she, she's very into, like, an ancestral preparation of vegetables.

Joe Rogan 49:18 Mm-hmm.

Ben Greenfield 49:18 You know, deactivating a lot of these, these stressors that Dr. Steven Gundry talks about. And, you know, before we podcast, we were talking about Tom Brady and how he does, like, a no nightshade, no tomato, no potato, you know. And, and I'd rather eat those things, but actually figure out a way to render them more digestible and friendlier-

Joe Rogan 49:36 Mm-hmm.

Ben Greenfield 49:36 ... to the human body.

Joe Rogan 49:37 Yeah, that's the other thing too.

Ben Greenfield 49:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:38 When people talk about food that has protein in it, um, you know, like, "Broccoli has so much protein." True, not really bioavailable though.

Ben Greenfield 49:46 Gotta eat a shit ton of broccoli.

Joe Rogan 49:47 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 49:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:48 It's just not the same. Your body-

Ben Greenfield 49:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:49 ... doesn't absorb it the same way it does a grass-fed rib eye steak.

Ben Greenfield 49:52 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:52 Your body absorbs that protein instantly. It knows-

Ben Greenfield 49:55 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 49:55 ... exactly what it is.

Ben Greenfield 49:56 Yes, yeah. By the way, there, there was a study that just came out about stem cells. They found that carnosine, which you find in copious amounts in, you know, grass-fed rib eye steak, with blueberry extract enhanced your stem cell production. I mean, it was a hugely significant number. I don't remember the exact percentage, but, but this combination of polyphenols and flavanols-

Joe Rogan 50:16 Mm-hmm.

Ben Greenfield 50:16 ... with meat is a good combo. That's why when I did the carnivore diet ... Or not the carnivore diet. That's when I was on ... When I was eating meat, I was doing lots of salads, I was doing lots of ... I, I had, like, wild blueberry extract powder.

Joe Rogan 50:28 Mm-hmm.

Ben Greenfield 50:28 I had these vegetable powders. You know, I was doing a lot of big salads for lunch, flavanols, polyphenols, any of that.

Joe Rogan 50:35 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 50:35 Uh, same thing with the high saturated fat diet. A high saturated fat diet, like the whole coconut oil thing, is highly inflammatory in the absence of plant polyphenols and flavanols, which is why if you're doing a high-fat ketotic diet, it needs to be a plant-rich high-fat ketotic diet. Otherwise, it's inflammatory.

Joe Rogan 50:53 Avocados, things along those lines. You can get a lot of your fats from avocados.

Ben Greenfield 50:55 Well, I mean, avocados, yes, but I'm talking about more, like, you know, doing, you know, coconut oil and butter and, you know, your avocado chocolate pudding and all these things. You know, your, your ketogenic fat bombs and all these recipes that are out there.

Joe Rogan 51:06 We're also having spinach.

Ben Greenfield 51:07 But you gotta eat a lot, you gotta eat a lot of plants.

Joe Rogan 51:09 Right.

Ben Greenfield 51:09 And even in the animal kingdom, you know, you see animals when they rip up another animal, like a carnivorous animal, they're eating the intestines and they're-

Joe Rogan 51:15 Mm-hmm.

Ben Greenfield 51:15 ... eating a lot of the organs that are chockfull of what? Grass-

Joe Rogan 51:18 Right.

Ben Greenfield 51:18 ... plants-

Joe Rogan 51:19 Sure.

Ben Greenfield 51:19 ... herbs, whatever that omnivorous animal, that the carnivorous animal is eating.

Joe Rogan 51:23 Predigested-

Ben Greenfield 51:24 So, exactly.

Joe Rogan 51:25 ... in a lot of cases.

Ben Greenfield 51:25 Exactly.

Joe Rogan 51:26 Um, when you're talking about carnivorous diets, uh, the, the real issue that I have with it is there's almost no research other than Dr. Baker doing those, uh, tests on himself, which-

Ben Greenfield 51:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:36 ... according to you, are not very f- promising.

Ben Greenfield 51:38 I didn't

Narrator 51:38 think they were great.

Joe Rogan 51:39 I have some friends that are trying it. Um, my friend, uh, Jordan Peterson, his daughter had some serious anti-infl- uh, some serious, um, uh, immune system, uh, issues. S- autoimmune disorders, and, uh, like, to the point where she's had a ... She's ... I believe she's, like, 30, 31.

Ben Greenfield 51:56 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 51:56 She's had a hip replaced, she's about to get, uh, one of her, uh, ankles replaced. Like, serious arthritis, real problems.

Ben Greenfield 52:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:01 The only thing that's been able to clear that up is meat.

Ben Greenfield 52:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:04 Just a pure meat diet.

Ben Greenfield 52:05 Right.

Joe Rogan 52:06 So, i- with some people, but she might have some-

Ben Greenfield 52:08 I, uh, I, I wouldn't say the only thing that c-

Joe Rogan 52:09 ... re- outrageous allergic reaction to plants.

Ben Greenfield 52:12 Right.

Joe Rogan 52:12 I mean, there might be something in her-

Ben Greenfield 52:13 I don't think ... The meat wasn't the medicine.

Joe Rogan 52:15 No, no, no.

Ben Greenfield 52:15 Probably the elimination of-

Joe Rogan 52:16 Exactly.

Ben Greenfield 52:16 ... whatever she eliminated.

Joe Rogan 52:17 It's what I'm saying.

Ben Greenfield 52:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:18 She might have some sort of a, uh, a real serious problem, um, some sort of, um, uh, allergic reaction to some plants-

Ben Greenfield 52:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:25 ... or to gluten and, uh-

Ben Greenfield 52:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:27 ... maybe a bunch of different things.

Ben Greenfield 52:28 That's the way a lot of these diets are, right?

Joe Rogan 52:30 Mm-hmm, yeah.

Ben Greenfield 52:30 You know, it's, it's the elimination.

Joe Rogan 52:31 Yes.

Ben Greenfield 52:32 Not, not the magic of-

Joe Rogan 52:33 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 52:33 ... just eating meat.

Joe Rogan 52:34 But do you mean ... But Shawn Baker keeps going on and on about how meat heals and meat this and meat that, all carnivorous diet, and, you know, all these people are trying it.

Ben Greenfield 52:42 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 52:42 Like, man ...

Ben Greenfield 52:42 It's got a lot of good stuff going for it, but, but restriction of plant matter, in my opinion, long term, is not a good idea. And eating meat all the time, long term, is not necessarily a good idea. And eating only plants with the absence of some meat-based protein is, for a lot of populations, not that great of an idea.

Joe Rogan 53:00 Yeah. Well, that's the point, is that m-

Ben Greenfield 53:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:02 ... for most people y- you're, you're gonna have to experiment a little bit to figure out what works best for you. And there are people that, especially if you use E3 Live and algae and get your B12 vitamins and your fat-soluble vitamins, you can live off a vegan diet. It can be done.

Ben Greenfield 53:17 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:17 But you really have to be careful about it.

Ben Greenfield 53:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 53:19 But then there's other people where they can't, and, and, and you really have to figure out what the fuck is going on with your own body.

Ben Greenfield 53:24 It's genetic too, the whole-

Joe Rogan 53:25 But this carnivore thing, to me, is kind of tweaking me out, because I just don't ... Uh, it's like they, they start talking about the, the, the, the, the poisons and t- phytotoxins and all these things that are in plants that are bad for you. I'm like, "Pff, okay."

Ben Greenfield 53:39 It's a-

Joe Rogan 53:39 But, uh, the, the, the issue with that is-

Ben Greenfield 53:40 It's a mild hormetic ... Exercise is bad for you. Sunlight's bad for you.

Joe Rogan 53:44 Exactly.

Ben Greenfield 53:44 All that stuff can kill you-

Joe Rogan 53:45 That's what I was gonna say.

Ben Greenfield 53:45 ... 'cause it's a hormetic stressor.

Joe Rogan 53:47 Is that your body-

Ben Greenfield 53:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 53:48 ... responds to that in a positive way.

Ben Greenfield 53:49 They even show that some of the, some of the rodents outside of Chernobyl are living longer.... from the radiation. And I'm not saying, like, "Go, go move your cabin out next to-"

Joe Rogan 53:57 I mean, that's the move.

Ben Greenfield 53:58 "... a nuclear disaster website." But the idea is that's a hormetic stressor.

Joe Rogan 54:01 Right.

Ben Greenfield 54:01 Like mild amounts of UVA and UVB-

Joe Rogan 54:03 Yes.

Ben Greenfield 54:04 ... every day.

Joe Rogan 54:04 Yes.

Ben Greenfield 54:05 I actually, every single day, I do cold. Every single day, I do hot. If I'm not in the sauna, then I'm wearing more clothing than I would normally wear when I go to the gym to get my, get my heart rate up-

Joe Rogan 54:13 Right.

Ben Greenfield 54:13 ... and actually get myself into the discomfort of hot-

Joe Rogan 54:16 Mm-hmm.

Ben Greenfield 54:16 ... for the heat shock protein and the nitric oxide, everything else that, that does for you. And then the discomfort of cold because it's a hormetic stressor.

Joe Rogan 54:23 Yeah. They're doing tests right now at Harvard-

Ben Greenfield 54:25 And they're so fast.

Joe Rogan 54:26 ... for hot yoga.

Ben Greenfield 54:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:27 They're trying to figure out if hot yoga has the same hormetic stress response as, um, sauna because they know there's been quite a bit-

Ben Greenfield 54:34 Oh-

Joe Rogan 54:34 ... a bit of work done on sauna.

Ben Greenfield 54:35 I mean, it's very equivalent physiologically to sauna-

Joe Rogan 54:37 Yeah, it's gotta be. I mean when you're in there-

Ben Greenfield 54:38 Yeah. That's what I do, is hot ... I don't do the full choreographed 90-minute Bikram yoga, but I have one of these big saunas. It's like a, it's a four-person sauna.

Joe Rogan 54:47 Mm-hmm.

Ben Greenfield 54:47 And if I go in there by myself, I can do fricking, you know, down dog and push-ups.

Joe Rogan 54:52 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 54:52 And then I take these, uh, these kaatsu blood flow restriction devices in there and do push-ups and squats.

Joe Rogan 54:57 Mm.

Ben Greenfield 54:57 And th- those are ... The research behind those for muscle maintenance with body weight training, it's very intriguing. I travel with them everywhere, these, these kaatsu training devices. And I just, you know, tie them like tourniquets around my arms-

Joe Rogan 55:08 Mm-hmm.

Ben Greenfield 55:09 ... around my legs. And they do a lot of studies in seniors for muscle maintenance without the need for as much joint impact. But what happens is you get micro-damage to the capillaries. You get a big release of lactic acid, which causes you to produce more growth hormone after the workout. I mean, in my opinion, for body weight training, like, it, uh, at this point, kaatsu training, like, doubles the effectiveness.

Joe Rogan 55:30 Yeah, I've, I've heard of that before.

Ben Greenfield 55:31 It's quite a bit.

Joe Rogan 55:31 I haven't really gotten into it, but I'm-

Ben Greenfield 55:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:33 ... I'm very big on the sauna to the point where we'll ... Obviously, we have one here at the studio that I use all the time.

Ben Greenfield 55:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:38 I just think it's like ... You know, it's those stressors that they're talking about as being a negative thing with eating vegetables, I just don't ... I don't buy it. I just don't buy it. People have been eating vegetables forever. I don't think they're bad for you.

Ben Greenfield 55:49 In excess or in people like your friend with the immune system-

Joe Rogan 55:53 Mm-hmm.

Ben Greenfield 55:53 ... issue or in people with leaky gut or dam- ... There might be a period of time where you actually have to be careful and really careful with-

Joe Rogan 56:00 Right.

Ben Greenfield 56:00 ... gluten, which is a digestive stressor. Uh, and again, even that in small amounts is probably good for you. They've even shown that kids who get gluten-restricted when they're kids wind up having more issues with gluten later on in life-

Joe Rogan 56:12 Hmm.

Ben Greenfield 56:12 ... because their guts might be weaker.

Joe Rogan 56:14 Right, right.

Ben Greenfield 56:14 Right. But, but yeah, lectins and plant phytochemicals and a lot of things that plants use to poison mammals or to cause their, their seeds to be undigested and pass out through the digestive tract in the stool of the mammals so they can grow elsewhere, a lot of that stuff really is, uh, you know, it, it makes you stronger. And that's-

Joe Rogan 56:31 You ever had that coffee, Kopi Luwak? You ever have that stuff?

Ben Greenfield 56:35 Is that, is that the weasel coffee?

Joe Rogan 56:36 That's the stuff ... Yeah, the, the, the cat, the lemur-

Ben Greenfield 56:38 Then you got, then you got elephant-

Joe Rogan 56:38 ... eats the coffee and shits it out. And then they take the coffee and sell it at this outrageous rate. It's actually delicious.

Ben Greenfield 56:44 It, it ferments in the digestive tract.

Joe Rogan 56:46 It's a smooth coffee, man.

Ben Greenfield 56:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:47 It's very nice. But you're eat- you're eating lemur shit.

Ben Greenfield 56:49 That's ... There's one that elephants do too.

Joe Rogan 56:51 Oh, wow.

Ben Greenfield 56:51 It's black, black ivory coffee.

Joe Rogan 56:53 I'll try that shit.

Ben Greenfield 56:53 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:53 But I don't want to, like, support the eleph- I don't give a fuck about lemurs.

Ben Greenfield 56:57 Uh ...

Joe Rogan 56:57 You know, I feel ... I don't ... It's a lemur? I think it's a lemur.

Ben Greenfield 56:59 Tha- uh, harvesting coffee beans from elephant poop sounds far more laborious than, than harvesting it-

Joe Rogan 57:04 Why? You get a giant chunk.

Ben Greenfield 57:05 ... from little weasels or lemurs.

Joe Rogan 57:06 It's huge.

Ben Greenfield 57:07 It's true.

Joe Rogan 57:07 It just hoes it down.

Ben Greenfield 57:07 You, you probably get better bang for your buck.

Joe Rogan 57:09 Yeah.

Ben Greenfield 57:09 You know.

Joe Rogan 57:09 Lemurs, tiny little turds.

Ben Greenfield 57:10 I don't know, but one little c- ... It's like a needle in a haystack, right, if it's just a few coffee beans in a-

Joe Rogan 57:14 Now you're feeding coffee.

Ben Greenfield 57:14 ... giant pile of elephant shit.

Joe Rogan 57:16 You get jacked up-

Ben Greenfield 57:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:17 ... coffeed up.

Ben Greenfield 57:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:18 Elephants out there shitting like crazy.

Ben Greenfield 57:18 And then you got hyper elephants cha- chasing you as you're digging through their shit, chasing you through the field.

Joe Rogan 57:22 (laughs) Plus they probably shit like crazy, just like a person does when you eat coffee.

Ben Greenfield 57:26 Yeah, yeah. Give them some, uh, some L-theanine.

Joe Rogan 57:27 There it is.

Ben Greenfield 57:29 What's-

Joe Rogan 57:29 There it is. Those are t- coffee turds.

Ben Greenfield 57:30 That's, that's almost like a bunch of coffee beans with a few pieces of turd thrown in it.

Joe Rogan 57:35 Yeah, look at that. Bam, son.

Ben Greenfield 57:36 Their stool is almost completely coffee beans.

Joe Rogan 57:37 That's Balinese Luwak coffee. So they just feed them nothing but coffee and they shit it out, sort of like we shit out corn-

Ben Greenfield 57:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:43 ... and we can't really digest it properly.

Ben Greenfield 57:45 Yeah. There's a fermentation process that makes the bean taste better. But-

Joe Rogan 57:48 My problem with the carnivore diet is my s- same problem that I have with the vegan diet, is it ... I don't think they're being scientific or objective about it. I think it turns into-

Ben Greenfield 57:57 They're being dogmatic.

Joe Rogan 57:57 It's ... It becomes an ideology.

Ben Greenfield 57:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:59 And the ideology is, is the meat, meat heals and meat's this and meat's that, and meat is the, the thing and like ... No, meat is one part of a good diet-

Ben Greenfield 58:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:08 ... one part of a healthy diet. And again, for some people. There's some people that have ... I'm, I'm sure you're aware of the lone star tick. You know about that, right?

Ben Greenfield 58:16 What about it?

Joe Rogan 58:17 Do you know about meat allergies?

Ben Greenfield 58:19 No.

Joe Rogan 58:19 Lone star tick is a tick that bites people and gives them an allergy to red meat. It's horrible (laughs) for a guy like you or guy like me.

Ben Greenfield 58:26 I, I'm assuming this is, like, a Texas tick.

Joe Rogan 58:29 Yes, yes.

Ben Greenfield 58:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:29 But it's spreading. It's spreading across the country and it's-

Ben Greenfield 58:31 See, all we have up in my land is, is, uh, ticks that ... As long as you get them off within 24 hours, that doesn't allow them to produce the saliva that would make them release their hold on your skin. And it's that that produces yellow fever-

Joe Rogan 58:45 Hmm, okay.

Ben Greenfield 58:45 ... not the actual tick bite itself. So you don't get a lot of Lyme up where I'm at, but I've never heard of this lone star tick.

Joe Rogan 58:49 Well, Lyme is much more prevalent in the East Coast, but, uh-

Ben Greenfield 58:52 It is.

Joe Rogan 58:52 ... it's starting to make its way out here. There have been some Lyme cases out here in California.

Ben Greenfield 58:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:56 But this lone star tick is, um, it's a real problem. And it's giving people ... It's something called, um, uh, alpha-gal, alpha, alpha, uh, f- ... Short for alpha-gal, uh, alpha-gal is the-

Ben Greenfield 59:09 Alpha galactose?

Joe Rogan 59:10 Yeah, that's it.

Ben Greenfield 59:11 Is like a sugar?

Joe Rogan 59:12 So here it is. It makes you allergic to hot dogs, alpha-galactose-

Ben Greenfield 59:16 Alpha galactose.

Joe Rogan 59:16 Alpha 1,3-galactose. Alpha-gal is the most ... Mammalian cell membranes, so the allergy doesn't extend to non-mammalian meat.

Ben Greenfield 59:24 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:24 Poultry and seafood are all fine, which is really interesting.

Ben Greenfield 59:28 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:28 Um, so you, you can't ... Once you get this shit, you're just ... You're allergic to this alpha-galactose-

Ben Greenfield 59:36 But you could eat ape and human meat, according to the article.

Joe Rogan 59:39 Yeah. Nah-

Ben Greenfield 59:39 So you're not allergic to those. So you could have a-

Joe Rogan 59:42 I wonder if you could eat pig. I wonder if pork.

Ben Greenfield 59:43 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:43 Well, mammalian-

Ben Greenfield 59:45 Doubt it.

Joe Rogan 59:46 So it could eat, ate meat. So if you wanna go to the jungle and have what they call-

Ben Greenfield 59:49 No.

Joe Rogan 59:50 ... bush meat.

Ben Greenfield 59:51 Yeah. Crazy. Okay. Speaking of meat, rib eye steaks.

Joe Rogan 59:53 Yes.

Ben Greenfield 59:53 This, this, this is how to make these rib eye steaks taste really good.

Joe Rogan 59:56 Okay.

Ben Greenfield 59:56 So, what I, what I do on, on the rub is like a really coarse salt. Use this salt called Colima salt. It's super high in minerals, really-

Joe Rogan 1:00:03 It's like kosher salt?

Ben Greenfield 1:00:04 But it's coarse. No, it's different. They harvest it from the Mexican coast, and, and it tastes fabulous. It's really good.

Joe Rogan 1:00:09 What's it called again?

Ben Greenfield 1:00:09 The only salts I travel with and use-

Joe Rogan 1:00:12 Spell it?

Ben Greenfield 1:00:12 ... is Colima salt, and then this stuff called, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:00:15 C-A-L-I-M-A?

Ben Greenfield 1:00:16 Yeah. C-O-L-I-M-A, and black Kona salt. Black Kona salt.

Joe Rogan 1:00:21 From Hawaii?

Ben Greenfield 1:00:22 From Kona from Hawaii. Yeah. I use that when I cook some of the meat from Hawaii just 'cause it seems right.

Joe Rogan 1:00:27 Ooh, yeah, it does seem right.

Ben Greenfield 1:00:27 To use salt from, from, from the, from the volcanoes in Hawaii. So ... And I rub, uh, cayenne, black pepper, salt, and then to reduce the, the carcinogens that can form when you cook meat, either thyme or rosemary or both. I just rub that-

Joe Rogan 1:00:41 Thyme or rosemary reduces carcinogens?

Ben Greenfield 1:00:43 Yeah. They're, they're, they're-

Joe Rogan 1:00:44 From the charring? Is that what the idea is?

Ben Greenfield 1:00:45 ... antioxidants. Yeah. They reduce, they reduce the formation of, uh, I think they call them polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, these, these, you know, things that form on the meat when you blacken the meat. 'Cause you wanna get it a good crisp sear on the other side-

Joe Rogan 1:00:56 Right.

Ben Greenfield 1:00:56 ... of the meat so it's nice and crunchy on the outside. So you restrict a lot of the, the unhealthy effects of doing that when you get some kind of an herb in there like that. So you take out the meat, you get it to room temperature. You put this rub in. And then you take a cast iron skillet. So I don't do it on the grill at all. It's a cast iron skillet. You heat up the cast iron skillet in the oven, and then you take it out of the oven and you put it on the stovetop. You put the stovetop on medium high. And I either use an extra virgin olive oil, uh, I've used lard before. Um-

Joe Rogan 1:01:23 Why do you use vir- olive oil when it has a low flash point?

Ben Greenfield 1:01:26 It gives me a good plai- no. Extra virgin olive oil has a bunch of antioxidants in it, so it's actually got-

Joe Rogan 1:01:30 Right, but it burns easily.

Ben Greenfield 1:01:31 It has higher resistance to the heat. It's never burnt.

Joe Rogan 1:01:34 Wow.

Ben Greenfield 1:01:34 Never an issue. Doesn't burn, doesn't smoke.

Joe Rogan 1:01:37 But I- when they sear things, w- that's one thing they tell you is never use olive oil.

Ben Greenfield 1:01:41 Well, I use extra virgin oil. I'm part of an olive oil club, so maybe it's 'cause I have really good olive oil. (laughs) They ship me three bottles of olive oil every quarter from a different part of the world.

Joe Rogan 1:01:50 Well, Google that. Let's find that out.

Ben Greenfield 1:01:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:50 Because, uh, I've really read don't cook things at high heat with olive oil.

Ben Greenfield 1:01:57 Look it up, but-

Joe Rogan 1:01:58 Even extra virgin olive oil.

Ben Greenfield 1:01:59 At this point all