Joe Rogan Experience #1137 - Duncan Trussell

1. 0:00 – 4:01

   Mac vs. PC: why Apple’s laptop keyboards feel “alien”

   1. DTDuncan Trussell0:00

      (singing) Doom, doom, doom, doom. Riders on the storm. Doom, doom, doom, doom.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:08

      I'm teaching Duncan the ways of-

   3. DTDuncan Trussell0:10

      I love it.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:10

      ... a Windows laptop.

   5. DTDuncan Trussell0:11

      Fucking love it.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      Mac's keyboards can go fuck themselves. Those are terrible keyboards. They're not designed for comfort and writing. This whole idea of get, get it thinner, man, get it thinner and thinner. Get it so it's a piece of paper and s- it magically unfolds, it expands to the right si-

   7. DTDuncan Trussell0:29

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:30

      It's, this is fucking, this is not too thick.

   9. DTDuncan Trussell0:33

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:33

       How come they can do it? How come you guys can't do it? Why, how come you only offer one shitty ass fucking keyboard? Find out if your MacBook qualified for Apple's keyboard repair program. I don't want you to repair the same shitty keyboard. I want you to make a real keyboard where you, you have like, it's got like a little bit of a u-shape to it, where your finger, it goes into the center. What is that called? How do they describe that? And the keys have like a little, a little bit of a dip to them in the w- in the middle. You feel-

   11. DTDuncan Trussell1:01

       Dimpled.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:01

       ... where they are. Yeah, dimpled perhaps. You feel where they are. They have travel so your fingers know what's going on. You get tactile feedback, more tactile feedback than this little clickety-click thing which might as well be, you might as well be doing it on a iPad. You know how you have a iPad keyboard?

   13. DTDuncan Trussell1:19

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:19

       And it kind of works but it kind of doesn't.

   15. DTDuncan Trussell1:21

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:21

       Because your fingers are all feeling the same thing every time.

   17. DTDuncan Trussell1:23

       Sure.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:24

       You want individual buttons that give you individual feedback so you don't have to think about what's happening. You can just think about the words.

   19. DTDuncan Trussell1:31

       It feels like the s- they hired an alien at Apple that forgot that humans like to push buttons.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:38

       Mm-hmm.

   21. DTDuncan Trussell1:38

       We like it.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:39

       We like it.

   23. DTDuncan Trussell1:39

       It feels good. It feels good. They're, they're ignoring like a basic human trait.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:45

       Yeah.

   25. DTDuncan Trussell1:45

       Which is like, have you seen those dumb cubes nervous people get?

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:49

       Yeah, what is that? What is that?

   27. DTDuncan Trussell1:49

       They've got like buttons and shit and you spin it around. It's, it was the same thing as this thing. It's like gives you this tactile little thing where you take all that extra energy and you put it in your, into your stress ball. You're s- people like to punch and press and click and switch.

   28. JRJoe Rogan2:04

       Oh.

   29. DTDuncan Trussell2:04

       And that's what Apple forgot. It's like when I'm typing, man, I like that click-click-click.

   30. JRJoe Rogan2:10

       Yeah.
2. 4:01 – 5:51

   Workplace gestures in 2018: the death of the wink and finger-gun

   1. JRJoe Rogan4:01

      Can you get away with that at work? What can you do now? Well, if you're like, uh, "Hey, Suzie, uh, make sure you have that copy done to personnel by 2:00."

   2. DTDuncan Trussell4:11

      No.

   3. JRJoe Rogan4:12

      Can't do that.

   4. DTDuncan Trussell4:12

      Hell no.

   5. JRJoe Rogan4:13

      You can't wink and go...

   6. DTDuncan Trussell4:15

      Hell no.

   7. JRJoe Rogan4:15

      You c- you definitely can't do the gun.

   8. DTDuncan Trussell4:17

      Peow. Nope. Unless-

   9. JRJoe Rogan4:18

      If you-

   10. DTDuncan Trussell4:18

       ... you're doing it to everybody. If you're in a meeting, you could go-

   11. JRJoe Rogan4:22

       No, 'cause then you're a mass shooter.

   12. DTDuncan Trussell4:23

       ... puh-puh-puh-puh-puh-puh-puh. Oh. (laughs)

   13. JRJoe Rogan4:25

       You can't do it to one person.

   14. DTDuncan Trussell4:27

       Fuck. (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan4:27

       You can't do it to a group of people. You can't make the finger gun anymore. The finger gun's gone.

   16. DTDuncan Trussell4:31

       You can't do... I, I, you know, I'm, we're both, we have cool jobs, dude, so like I have to imagine that that's gone. Like, you know, in my house, the finger gun's not go-

   17. JRJoe Rogan4:41

       (laughs)

   18. DTDuncan Trussell4:41

       ... the gun's not gonna... I shoot my dogs every day. In front of my wife, I like looking at her Cavaliers and being like, "Bam, bam. Dead. Now what? Now what?" (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan4:53

       (laughs) You can't even play a round anymore.

   20. DTDuncan Trussell4:55

       I love those dogs.

   21. JRJoe Rogan4:55

       But it's like there's no room for nuance because there are crazy people that do shoot people, you can't pretend to shoot people anymore.

   22. DTDuncan Trussell5:02

       Dude, this is it, man. This is the, exactly the fucking problem of being interconnected by technology, is that we are paying for the sins of the v- of the small percentile of absolute dumbasses on the planet. And because of that, they're... You know, you know anytime I look at a sign, any sign that's got like an obvious thing in it, don't sh- don't shit in the hot tub, or like on the roller coaster, don't, don't get out of your seat. When I look at that, I think, that's m- because of dumb, dumb, dumb-

   23. JRJoe Rogan5:38

       Yeah.

   24. DTDuncan Trussell5:38

       ... because there w- might be a person who's in the roller coasters like, "Oh, standing up will be more fun."

   25. JRJoe Rogan5:44

       Yeah.

   26. DTDuncan Trussell5:45

       Didn't do it, mean to do a Southern accent, by the way. I'm from the South. I don't think they're all dumb.

   27. JRJoe Rogan5:50

       (laughs)

3. 5:51 – 6:44

   Too many voices online: relearning communication in the internet era

   1. DTDuncan Trussell5:51

      (sighs) This is too many people talking. There's too many people talking in this world. Didn't used to be like that. This is a new thing. For the last 10 years-

   2. JRJoe Rogan6:00

      ... people started talking.

   3. DTDuncan Trussell6:02

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan6:03

      No pe- the re- the average person didn't have a voice 20 years ago. There's great things to anyone having a voice, great things.

   5. DTDuncan Trussell6:11

      Great.

   6. JRJoe Rogan6:11

      Great things.

   7. DTDuncan Trussell6:12

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan6:12

      But we're gonna have to relearn human communication.

   9. DTDuncan Trussell6:16

      Right.

   10. JRJoe Rogan6:16

       We're gonna ... We can't use the old rules for today. It just can't work. It can't work. It's, it's t- and it's too easy to be an asshole. People gotta stop seeking that out. Like, I, I, the lashing out at people for no reason. It's just, it's so crazy how many people do it. You'll see someone post something and someone will be like, "Fuck you, you dumb piece of shit. Don't you realize that this is why this-"

   11. DTDuncan Trussell6:42

       Dude.

   12. JRJoe Rogan6:42

       "... and that is why that."

4. 6:44 – 10:37

   Psychedelics, stigma, and irresponsible evangelism

   1. DTDuncan Trussell6:44

      Any ... I ... You know Steven Kotler? He's been on this show a few times.

   2. JRJoe Rogan6:47

      Sure.

   3. DTDuncan Trussell6:48

      He's awesome and they're doing-

   4. JRJoe Rogan6:49

      Yeah.

   5. DTDuncan Trussell6:49

      ... he's doing this new psychedelic study, psychedelics and flow states. So I retweeted a tweet 'cause he, that he's like, they're doing research right now. They need people to fill out a survey. So I retweeted that to help Steven out, just like, "Ah, cool. Yeah-"

   6. JRJoe Rogan7:03

      Yeah.

   7. DTDuncan Trussell7:03

      "... that's a cool thing. I think psychedelics probably do induce flow states. I'd like to find out for sure." But within like six comments, it's still up there if y'all wanna look, some dude wrote to me something along the lines of like, "You're hurting people and don't even know it." That's six down. It's like, hurting people? I can't remember what language he used, but it's like, what the fuck are you... This is a survey, dude. Like what are you talking about? Like is it maybe he means by retweeting surveys, that sucks 'cause no one wants to see that on their timeline? But I think he meant you're hurting people by, uh, demystifying and destigmatizing psychedelics.

   8. JRJoe Rogan7:44

      Yeah.

   9. NANarrator7:45

      This guy.

   10. JRJoe Rogan7:45

       Little do you know you're-

   11. DTDuncan Trussell7:46

       Oh, yeah. See-

   12. JRJoe Rogan7:47

       ... funding cruelty.

   13. DTDuncan Trussell7:48

       Funding, funding cruelty.

   14. JRJoe Rogan7:51

       I like how you just said, "Huh?"

   15. DTDuncan Trussell7:53

       'Cause I want the explanation 'cause it's like when someone says something like that, it's so terribly, absolutely, impossibly wrong from my reality tunnel that it's like I wanna get in their reality tunnel and hear ... 'Cause that guy really bel- that ... He believes it.

   16. JRJoe Rogan8:08

       Well-

   17. DTDuncan Trussell8:08

       Or he's a troll.

   18. JRJoe Rogan8:09

       It could be he's a troll. It could be that he's had terrible experiences with psychedelics. That's ... You know. Maybe he's-

   19. DTDuncan Trussell8:18

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan8:18

       ... one of those guys that had a real ... You know, look, when people get really into something, they want everybody to get into it. I'm a terrible example of that. I'm telling everybody, "You gotta do yoga. You gotta do yoga."

   21. DTDuncan Trussell8:28

       Yeah, yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan8:29

       Th- this happens with, with everything.

   23. DTDuncan Trussell8:32

       Oh, yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan8:33

       And people that get sober, like people that have a real problem, they have it at a like ... We all know someone who's gone off the deep end with drugs, right? When they come out of that, some folks turn into evangelists for sobriety.

   25. DTDuncan Trussell8:47

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan8:47

       And it gets super annoying.

   27. DTDuncan Trussell8:49

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan8:49

       And one of the things they do is they demonize all positive experiences-

   29. DTDuncan Trussell8:54

       Yes.

   30. JRJoe Rogan8:54

       ... that were with the same substance as their negative experience. In their fucking crazy head, they've decided because they had a bad trip, every trip is bad. The millions of people tripping-
5. 10:37 – 13:06

   Ayahuasca tragedy and the responsibility of ‘medicine’ narratives

   1. DTDuncan Trussell10:37

      think, "This is the answer! This is the answer! This is it! This is what we need!" And it's like, "Well, it's part of what some people need." But if you've got manic depression for example, if you've got bipolar ... You know. Dude, I, I had this moment where this, uh, some parents came up to me and were ... Did I tell you about this? They were ... They came in to talk to me, um, at a show and they were like talking about how their kid liked my podcast. And it was really sad because he had been at m- one of my podcasts and I think he had come on stage to ask a question or something or, or, or, or ... And, and they were looking for a recording of the live show 'cause they thought maybe they could hear him talk or get some like his, him ... his laughter or something. But anyway, what happened was he, uh ... I think he had some kind of, um, bipolar. I'm not sure what, but his, uh ... One of my friends, Raven, he's like his ... He, he uses the term gyro. His gyro was off a little bit, you know? Something was off a little bit. But anyway, the kid went and did ayahuasca in Peru. He did a eight night or one ... You know how they're doing these like w- I don't know how ed- They do it every night or every other night, eight night retreat, drinking the medicine every night. And then after that, went to some kind of like other shaman or some woman. I don't know who, who it was. I'm not, I'm not sure of the deets. But then he came home and he jumped off a waterfall and killed himself.... 'cause, 'cause, he, he, he, what had happened is, uh, he, a manic s- he was in a manic state. It triggered a manic state, um, and he killed himself.

   2. JRJoe Rogan12:22

      Jesus.

   3. DTDuncan Trussell12:22

      And, and I re- and that was ayahuasca, you know? That's like the medicine, right? And, and so (sighs) it just, for some reason, I think some people are, uh, de-emphasizing what it means to be healed by a psychedelic or to be worked on by a psychedelic or to enter into that state because it's becoming, thank God, uh, destigmatized.

   4. JRJoe Rogan12:49

      Much more so.

   5. DTDuncan Trussell12:50

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan12:50

      Do you remember how it was 20 years ago?

   7. DTDuncan Trussell12:53

      Dude.

   8. JRJoe Rogan12:53

      It was- you couldn't even talk about it.

   9. DTDuncan Trussell12:55

      Couldn't talk about it. Couldn't mention it. It was u- it was bad, bad, bad drugs. It was heroin.

   10. JRJoe Rogan13:00

       Yeah.

   11. DTDuncan Trussell13:00

       It was on the same level as like you, you, if you were taking LSD, that was like heroin, man. So-

6. 13:06 – 15:19

   Drug testing at work and the humiliation economy (pee, poop, and ‘asshole prints’)

   1. JRJoe Rogan13:06

      Yeah, people would look at you like you're crazy. And then there's also, you know, there's real problems that people have with being tested at work. A lot of people get tested at work and people are worried about losing their jobs. So drugs don't just become a thing where you could fuck up and, you know, and get addicted to them. But now they've become a thing that could take away your livelihood.

   2. DTDuncan Trussell13:25

      Yes.

   3. JRJoe Rogan13:25

      Take away your livelihood.

   4. DTDuncan Trussell13:26

      That's right.

   5. JRJoe Rogan13:27

      They check your pee. They put this state of paranoia on their employees. Just imagine that feeling. You're working for some office.

   6. DTDuncan Trussell13:34

      Sure.

   7. JRJoe Rogan13:34

      You probably don't dig the gig anyway, right? You don't even like it.

   8. DTDuncan Trussell13:37

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan13:37

      And they have to check your piss every now and then. And they, they don't let you know when. "Duncan, can I see you for a moment?"

   10. DTDuncan Trussell13:42

       Sure.

   11. JRJoe Rogan13:42

       "Hi, Duncan."

   12. DTDuncan Trussell13:43

       Hi.

   13. JRJoe Rogan13:43

       "It's that time of the year, random drug test."

   14. DTDuncan Trussell13:45

       Okay.

   15. JRJoe Rogan13:46

       "So I'm just gonna have to go with you and watch you pull your penis out and, um-"

   16. DTDuncan Trussell13:50

       Hmm.

   17. JRJoe Rogan13:50

       "... put it into this cup-"

   18. DTDuncan Trussell13:51

       All right.

   19. JRJoe Rogan13:51

       "... and give me a little sample of your body-"

   20. DTDuncan Trussell13:53

       (laughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan13:53

       "... fluids."

   22. DTDuncan Trussell13:53

       "Okay, baby."

   23. JRJoe Rogan13:54

       "Okay?"

   24. DTDuncan Trussell13:55

       "Yeah. Whatever you want."

   25. JRJoe Rogan13:56

       What if they- what if that didn't work anymore? What if they figured a way around it so they, they had to collect your shit? "I need to see you shit."

   26. DTDuncan Trussell14:02

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan14:02

       "I need to see your asshole open up-"

   28. DTDuncan Trussell14:03

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan14:04

       "... and I need to see that tube come out into this Tupperware container."

   30. DTDuncan Trussell14:07

       Yeah.
7. 15:19 – 19:43

   ‘Bullshit Jobs’: automation, performative work, and enforced lying

   1. DTDuncan Trussell15:19

      But also if you really think about the fact that we are in a world (laughs) where people have to go to work, to do a job, that by the way, man, if there is a dude you need to get on this podcast and does a book that you would love, David Graeber wrote this book called Bullshit Jobs. This guy is a fucking genius, man. And this book, Bullshit Jobs, breaks down the phenomena of, uh, how many, many people are working in jobs that don't do anything for the world or the company they're working for. And it's not like this judgmental thing where he's like, "You, that's a bullshit job, you're a blah, blah, blah." He's, one of the, he's like a anthropologist, so he's very precise. But one of the qualifications for your job to be a bullshit job is you know that it's really kind of a worthless job. It's not really doing anything. And like the companies have gotten so fucking big that, uh, they, they end up having like departments or people running departments or extra employees that don't really need to be there at all. And they have to pretend to be, to work. That's what he writes about. He's, he, he, he writes that the, if you really want to torture a person, uh, not only give them like the job of like, you know, pouring a glass of water in an empty glass and pouring it back. But then add to it that they have to deceive their boss into thinking that they're like doing an important job or they lose their job. So these, not only are these like s- some corporations and companies scanning your piss to see if you're taking a substance that is allowing you to connect with h- uh, home, what you actually are. They are also demanding that you spend many hours a day lying to them that you're doing work that you're not doing. Like if you're fucking efficient, you know, and this is another thing, uh, Graeber writes about. Forgive me, David Graeber, if in any way I misconstrue this. I read your writings stoned. But the, and, and, but the, the, um, the, the, the other fucking element to it that is absolutely atrocious and fucking horrible is that, uh, these substances are connecting us to home, they don't want us to be in those states, and they're asking us to fucking lie all day. And you know what psychedelic means? The, the etymology of psychedelic?

   2. JRJoe Rogan17:49

      No.

   3. DTDuncan Trussell17:50

      It means mind manifesting or soul manifesting. Right? So a psychedelic connects us potentially with the truth, what we are, our identity. Right? And these companies, they're asking us to lie, to be the opposite of our ide- identities, to wear weird, a suit or s- or some kind of dress code, and to sit in a desk where because you're efficient, you get your job done in 45 minutes. And for the next six hours, you gotta sit and-... type, and pretend that you're working, knowing it... You're a person. And knowing that this is, like, unethical. You're... But if you, if you like, go and tell your boss, "Hey, man, I don't really have much to do," you might get fired. The boss might... Like, in the book, he cites one person, 'cause he did like, a survey. And he cites one person who went to her boss and she's like, "Hey, I can finish my job in two hours. I need... Can I have other stuff to do?"

   4. JRJoe Rogan18:52

      (exhales)

   5. DTDuncan Trussell18:52

      And her boss is like, "Don't talk about that. Stay quiet about that."

   6. JRJoe Rogan18:54

      Oh.

   7. DTDuncan Trussell18:56

      Yeah, man. That's the fucking world we're in right now 'cause of automation. There's less to do. Computers are making shit fast. It's... Why are we work... We're working the exact same amount of time we were when there were no computers.

   8. JRJoe Rogan19:08

      But you have to be there to get paid.

   9. DTDuncan Trussell19:09

      And you have to act like you're doing something or they can you.

   10. JRJoe Rogan19:12

       Yeah.

   11. DTDuncan Trussell19:13

       So-

   12. JRJoe Rogan19:13

       How many people right now are doing just that while they're listening to this?

   13. DTDuncan Trussell19:17

       A lot.

   14. JRJoe Rogan19:18

       A lot.

   15. DTDuncan Trussell19:19

       And, and by the way-

   16. JRJoe Rogan19:20

       If you, if you had to guess- (laughs)

   17. DTDuncan Trussell19:22

       What?

   18. JRJoe Rogan19:22

       ... what percentage of people are listening right now that are really supposed to be doing some bullshit job, and they're kind of sitting in front of their keyboard with earbuds on, just barely paying attention, trying not to get caught looking at porn?

   19. DTDuncan Trussell19:34

       Yeah. Yeah. Uh, probably all over the planet, uh, over a million. Over a million in the workforce, probably.

8. 19:43 – 29:19

   Porn-at-work, masturbation taboos, and the ‘no-fap’ debate

   1. JRJoe Rogan19:43

      When do you think companies had to put in rules that you can't look at porn at work? Like, that wasn't a thing in the '70s. It wasn't a thing-

   2. DTDuncan Trussell19:53

      Hmm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan19:53

      ... in the '80s.

   4. DTDuncan Trussell19:54

      Right.

   5. JRJoe Rogan19:54

      It wasn't a thing in the '90s.

   6. DTDuncan Trussell19:56

      Right.

   7. JRJoe Rogan19:56

      Then all of a sudden, you could just find porn online. And people will... They have a work computer that's hooked up to the internet. Like, when did companies start going, "Oh, yeah, we didn't know about that. Yeah, you can't look at that."

   8. DTDuncan Trussell20:09

      Dude, I, I mean, I'm sure it started with like, Penthouse, right? Like, even when they had Penthouse, like, Penthouse magazine. Like, when you had fucking like, you know-

   9. JRJoe Rogan20:16

      Yeah, for sure. For sure it started with magazines.

   10. DTDuncan Trussell20:18

       You couldn't bring your fl... You couldn't bring your Penthouse, your fucking Hustler to work.

   11. JRJoe Rogan20:21

       That's true, but th- but looking at something online is so much easier than going to the store and getting a Hustler.

   12. DTDuncan Trussell20:28

       Right.

   13. JRJoe Rogan20:28

       Like, the access is universal.

   14. DTDuncan Trussell20:31

       Your-

   15. JRJoe Rogan20:31

       Instantaneous. Everyone has the, the ability to just go and download it.

   16. DTDuncan Trussell20:36

       You know, if we're gonna, like, ask questions that are impossible to answer, s- t- like, how many people right now do you think listening to the podcast are in their bullshit job, jerking off to porn-

   17. JRJoe Rogan20:47

       (laughs)

   18. DTDuncan Trussell20:47

       ... while they listen?

   19. JRJoe Rogan20:48

       At least one dude.

   20. DTDuncan Trussell20:49

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan20:50

       (laughs)

   22. DTDuncan Trussell20:52

       (laughs)

   23. JRJoe Rogan20:52

       (sighs) For sure, that's what dudes do.

   24. DTDuncan Trussell20:55

       Yeah, I mean, 'cause you-

   25. JRJoe Rogan20:56

       They can get away with it, they jerk off, especially a guy with a bad job who could find a way to jerk off somewhere.

   26. DTDuncan Trussell21:01

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan21:01

       "Let me just get five minutes in this bathroom and jerk off, just so I don't have to think about this stupid fucking job."

   28. DTDuncan Trussell21:06

       Sure. Dude, come on, like-

   29. JRJoe Rogan21:07

       That's like sexual assault.

   30. DTDuncan Trussell21:09

       I don't think it is.
9. 29:19 – 35:39

   Mindfulness gets ‘cringe’: real practice vs. guru branding

   1. JRJoe Rogan29:19

      And you could just take care of it yourself and you'd be relieved and then you could think clear. You know, I think the body needs a balance, right? That's why I'm a big proponent of exercise. I'm a big proponent of meditation and mindfulness-

   2. DTDuncan Trussell29:32

      Yes.

   3. JRJoe Rogan29:32

      ... and just trying to ... I mean, it sound ... That's all ... Those are toxic words right now, meditation and mindfulness.

   4. DTDuncan Trussell29:37

      Are they?

   5. JRJoe Rogan29:38

      Yeah, they've been thrown around by too many knuckleheads.

   6. DTDuncan Trussell29:40

      Oh.

   7. JRJoe Rogan29:41

      Like there's something about it that it's like, oh, that's kind of a bullshitty word. You kinda-

   8. DTDuncan Trussell29:45

      Oh, yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan29:45

      You know what I mean?

   10. DTDuncan Trussell29:46

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan29:46

       You're like, oh, I'm just all about mindfulness.

   12. DTDuncan Trussell29:47

       Ah, yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan29:47

       Like, oh, you're annoying. That's what you are.

   14. DTDuncan Trussell29:50

       Dude, I-

   15. JRJoe Rogan29:50

       You're the annoying guy.

   16. DTDuncan Trussell29:51

       I, I, I saw a book just yesterday in one of these like boutique stores. Someone had made a sarcastic kids book called The Grown-Up's Guide to Mindfulness.

   17. JRJoe Rogan30:00

       (laughs)

   18. DTDuncan Trussell30:00

       And whoever wrote that fucking book hates the word mindful. Ha- ha- just r- definitely has an obnoxious friend who's into mindfulness because the, the, the book is just like a ... First of all, the, the guy doesn't seem to really understand what it is in the book. Like it's, uh ... He seems a little confused about the nature of it. But, uh, and I remember looking at that and being like, oh, I guess people are getting annoyed with the word mindfulness now. Like the pendulum's swinging that way. Yeah. I-

   19. JRJoe Rogan30:26

       Yeah. It's one of those words that people love to say. It sounds good and it makes you seem like a, like a spiritual person.

   20. DTDuncan Trussell30:34

       Yes.

   21. JRJoe Rogan30:34

       So it gets ... When a word gets moved around and used too much, like something happens to it where it gets icky-

   22. DTDuncan Trussell30:42

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan30:42

       'Cause it's like, it becomes popular and then people start using it. And then you see, like, a bunch of phony guru type dudes at seminars using it. "What's important here-"

   24. DTDuncan Trussell30:50

       Oh, yeah.

   25. JRJoe Rogan30:51

       "... is mindfulness."

   26. DTDuncan Trussell30:51

       Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan30:52

       "It's very important that we..." You know how there's, like, typically unique behaviors? You know what I mean?

   28. DTDuncan Trussell30:57

       Yes.

   29. JRJoe Rogan30:58

       Like there's, there's, there's... Especially when it comes to, like, people that are full of shit, there's like a typical uniqueness. Like, there's a, just a thing that a lot of people adopt and it sounds-

   30. DTDuncan Trussell31:08

       Yeah.
10. 35:39 – 1:05:04

    Momentum of the past, karma as “seeds,” and addiction as kudzu

    1. JRJoe Rogan35:39

       On my own, thinking about my own life and observing other people's lives, I've come up with this thing that I bring up all the time, the, the momentum of your past. Like, you're, you're... Like, so many people as they're going down the street, so many people as they're interacting with people, they're carrying the momentum of all the fucked up things that are going on. Bills that they have to pay-

    2. DTDuncan Trussell36:00

       Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan36:00

       ... and things that they forgot to do, and a career they never chased, and a girl they never called back, and a thing that they lied about-

    4. DTDuncan Trussell36:08

       Yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan36:08

       ... and a thing they stole, and the reason why they got fired from work. And maybe if I call my boss I'll get my... And all this craziness you're bringing with you into everything.

    6. DTDuncan Trussell36:16

       Yeah.

    7. JRJoe Rogan36:16

       And that-... is so hard to escape. It's so hard for people to escape the momentum of the past. You know, people-

    8. DTDuncan Trussell36:22

       Mm.

    9. JRJoe Rogan36:23

       ... sort of, uh, they get into this thing of defining themselves by failures, by past failures.

    10. DTDuncan Trussell36:28

        Right.

    11. JRJoe Rogan36:28

        And never just learning from them. Going, "Oh, I'm that fucking loser."

    12. DTDuncan Trussell36:31

        Right.

    13. JRJoe Rogan36:32

        You know, it's a real problem.

    14. DTDuncan Trussell36:33

        Yeah.

    15. JRJoe Rogan36:33

        It's a real problem with people to be able to learn from something and to just look at yourself. And it's painful to look at yourself, so everybody wants to pretend that they didn't do anything wrong.

    16. DTDuncan Trussell36:42

        Right.

    17. JRJoe Rogan36:42

        Or that they, everybody else is an asshole. And that-

    18. DTDuncan Trussell36:45

        Yes.

    19. JRJoe Rogan36:45

        Yeah. And so, you, when you're do, what you're doing by doing that is you're stunting your own growth. You feel like you're protecting yourself because you're protecting your ego. You're like, "You know, I didn't do anything wrong. Fuck him."

    20. DTDuncan Trussell36:56

        Yeah.

    21. JRJoe Rogan36:56

        "He's the asshole." But you know you could've avoided that. You know you could've done better.

    22. DTDuncan Trussell37:01

        Yeah.

    23. JRJoe Rogan37:01

        Like, everybody has moments like that in their life. And the more you avoid those and don't take credit for the ones that you actually fucked up, the more you actually hurt yourself in this ironic thing.

    24. DTDuncan Trussell37:11

        Yeah.

    25. JRJoe Rogan37:11

        Because it seems like you're protecting yourself. No, you're, you're ... I'm exonerating myself from guilt. Just fuck it, it wasn't me. I didn't do it.

    26. DTDuncan Trussell37:18

        Yeah.

    27. JRJoe Rogan37:18

        But you know you did. So in your head, you're the guy who lies about making mistakes instead of you're the guy who mans up to your mistakes-

    28. DTDuncan Trussell37:26

        Yeah.

    29. JRJoe Rogan37:26

        ... and realizes it was a mistake, and then vows to do better.

    30. DTDuncan Trussell37:30

        Yeah, man. That's beautiful. That's it.
11. 1:05:04 – 1:12:45

    Video games as art, obsession, and mental exercise (God of War, Blizzard, LAN nostalgia)

    1. DTDuncan Trussell1:05:04

       But also, like you know what comes to mind? Sorry anyone from Blizzard who's listening who like doesn't like your job there, but I got to, I went to on this tour of Blizzard and they fucking, every-

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:05:15

       It's a company that makes video games.

    3. DTDuncan Trussell1:05:16

       They make the best video games outside of like... The only game I notch up with it right now, I'm into God of War. It's so fucking good, but-

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:05:25

       It looks pretty badass. I saw a lot.

    5. DTDuncan Trussell1:05:26

       It is amazing. It is amazing.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:05:28

       Look at you, look at you.

    7. DTDuncan Trussell1:05:29

       Oh, dude.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:05:30

       So excited.

    9. DTDuncan Trussell1:05:30

       It's the first triple A game I've liked in so long.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:05:33

        What's a triple A game?

    11. DTDuncan Trussell1:05:34

        Isn't... It's called triple A, right? Triple A. It's a really expensive game to make. It's like a, it's like a hardcore big time-

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:05:40

        Pull up a video. Let me see God of War.

    13. DTDuncan Trussell1:05:42

        Oh, God it's so-

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:05:43

        The graphics look pretty fucking incredible.

    15. DTDuncan Trussell1:05:45

        Dude, dude.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:05:46

        Dude.

    17. DTDuncan Trussell1:05:46

        It's beautiful.

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:05:47

        Dude.

    19. DTDuncan Trussell1:05:48

        Don't get me... Fuck the alien-

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:05:49

        Dude.

    21. DTDuncan Trussell1:05:50

        ... damn bullshit. God of War is like... It's so good, man. And like I'm stuck in it right now.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:05:56

        So you put on the HTC Vive today, the new one that we have-

    23. DTDuncan Trussell1:05:59

        But you didn't-

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:05:59

        Yeah.

    25. DTDuncan Trussell1:05:59

        You didn't get into a game yet. There's, there's some games in it where you're just like, "Whoa, I see where this is go..." And I saw that from yours, from... But yours was... When I was over your place, what was that? Yeah.

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:06:09

        Two or three years ago?

    27. DTDuncan Trussell1:06:10

        Probably two years ago.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:06:11

        Look how good that is.

    29. DTDuncan Trussell1:06:12

        Kratos.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:06:13

        Look how good that is. You can see like the dirt on his hands. It's like you watched an episode of Vikings.
12. 1:12:45 – 1:39:47

    Learning the ‘Way’ across domains: Musashi, skill transfer, passion, and parenting

    1. DTDuncan Trussell1:12:45

       But, dude, you know, this is, this is something I was thinking I wanted to bring up during the podcast, man. It's like when we first started hanging out, you told me something I've never forgotten and it's from The Book of Five Rings, um, by Miyamoto Musashi. And you mentioned something from that book, which is that, um, learn one thing and you will know how to do a lot of other stuff, right?

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:13:17

       Yeah.

    3. DTDuncan Trussell1:13:17

       So he would, uh, apparently he would, um, he, he was a samurai.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:13:23

       Yeah.

    5. DTDuncan Trussell1:13:23

       And so he recommended for a samurai not just to learn the sword, but to learn poetry.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:13:28

       Mm-hmm.

    7. DTDuncan Trussell1:13:28

       Learn how to paint, learn how to do this stuff because in the meta process of learning, you learn, you, like, you, you, there's something in there that, like, fits onto all forms of learning, right?

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:13:40

       Well, you don't wanna be too hard, but you don't wanna be too soft. You wanna be a balance.

    9. DTDuncan Trussell1:13:45

       Right.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:13:45

        And, and in a balance you must, you have to be artistic and destructive. You have to be loving and hating.

    11. DTDuncan Trussell1:13:51

        Right.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:13:51

        You know, he, he played games with his opponents. Like, he didn't just fight nobly. He was an asshole. He would, like, show up hours late for duels and make the guy wait.

    13. DTDuncan Trussell1:14:01

        Ugh.

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:14:02

        Because he knew the guy would be freaking out.

    15. DTDuncan Trussell1:14:03

        Ugh.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:14:03

        He would show up sometimes with wooden swords instead of metal swords to fuck with their heads. One time he whittled a sword out of an oar of the boat that he, he rowed over to the beach where he was supposed to have the sword fight and showed up hours late, fucked the dude up with an oar.

    17. DTDuncan Trussell1:14:18

        Oh, dude.

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:14:19

        Yeah, he would, he would play games with people.

    19. DTDuncan Trussell1:14:21

        Right.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:14:21

        He knew that there was psychological warfare in him showing up late.

    21. DTDuncan Trussell1:14:25

        Right.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:14:26

        You know?

    23. DTDuncan Trussell1:14:26

        Right. Yeah, he, and, and do you remember the first sentence of the book?

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:14:31

        I do not. I remember the quote that you just were talking about 'cause I say it all the time. It's like the reason why I have this tattoo on my arm. This is Musashi, you know?

    25. DTDuncan Trussell1:14:38

        Yeah.

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:14:39

        It's once you understand the way broadly, or once you know the way broadly-

    27. DTDuncan Trussell1:14:42

        That.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:14:42

        ... you'll see it in all things.

    29. DTDuncan Trussell1:14:43

        That.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:14:44

        Yeah.

Episode duration: 2:58:01