Joe Rogan Experience #1137 - Duncan Trussell

Duncan Trussell 0:00 (singing) Doom, doom, doom, doom. Riders on the storm. Doom, doom, doom, doom.

Joe Rogan 0:08 I'm teaching Duncan the ways of-

Duncan Trussell 0:10 I love it.

Joe Rogan 0:10 ... a Windows laptop.

Duncan Trussell 0:11 Fucking love it.

Joe Rogan 0:12 Mac's keyboards can go fuck themselves. Those are terrible keyboards. They're not designed for comfort and writing. This whole idea of get, get it thinner, man, get it thinner and thinner. Get it so it's a piece of paper and s- it magically unfolds, it expands to the right si-

Duncan Trussell 0:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:30 It's, this is fucking, this is not too thick.

Duncan Trussell 0:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:33 How come they can do it? How come you guys can't do it? Why, how come you only offer one shitty ass fucking keyboard? Find out if your MacBook qualified for Apple's keyboard repair program. I don't want you to repair the same shitty keyboard. I want you to make a real keyboard where you, you have like, it's got like a little bit of a u-shape to it, where your finger, it goes into the center. What is that called? How do they describe that? And the keys have like a little, a little bit of a dip to them in the w- in the middle. You feel-

Duncan Trussell 1:01 Dimpled.

Joe Rogan 1:01 ... where they are. Yeah, dimpled perhaps. You feel where they are. They have travel so your fingers know what's going on. You get tactile feedback, more tactile feedback than this little clickety-click thing which might as well be, you might as well be doing it on a iPad. You know how you have a iPad keyboard?

Duncan Trussell 1:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:19 And it kind of works but it kind of doesn't.

Duncan Trussell 1:21 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:21 Because your fingers are all feeling the same thing every time.

Duncan Trussell 1:23 Sure.

Joe Rogan 1:24 You want individual buttons that give you individual feedback so you don't have to think about what's happening. You can just think about the words.

Duncan Trussell 1:31 It feels like the s- they hired an alien at Apple that forgot that humans like to push buttons.

Joe Rogan 1:38 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 1:38 We like it.

Joe Rogan 1:39 We like it.

Duncan Trussell 1:39 It feels good. It feels good. They're, they're ignoring like a basic human trait.

Joe Rogan 1:45 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:45 Which is like, have you seen those dumb cubes nervous people get?

Joe Rogan 1:49 Yeah, what is that? What is that?

Duncan Trussell 1:49 They've got like buttons and shit and you spin it around. It's, it was the same thing as this thing. It's like gives you this tactile little thing where you take all that extra energy and you put it in your, into your stress ball. You're s- people like to punch and press and click and switch.

Joe Rogan 2:04 Oh.

Duncan Trussell 2:04 And that's what Apple forgot. It's like when I'm typing, man, I like that click-click-click.

Joe Rogan 2:10 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 2:10 I like, like in The Shining.

Joe Rogan 2:12 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 2:12 When you hear tick-tick-tick, that means-

Joe Rogan 2:15 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 2:15 ... I'm typing. I like the sound. The flutter of the keys as you're writing. That fucking Apple keyboard, man. When I went in, I was so ready to buy a brand new MacBook Pro. So excited.

Joe Rogan 2:28 Ooh.

Duncan Trussell 2:28 Really excited. Like fi- I had, mine's from like 2014 or 2015. I mean, not to like be a fucking Apple fanboy, but I will say that when I, when I went in there with it, instead of trying to sell me the new MacBook, she looked at it and was like, "What are you doing on the thing?" And I'm like, "Oh, I edit sound." And she was like, "Uh, I don't know that you, that you're, you even need a new one, outside of the fact that it's new."

Joe Rogan 2:56 Whoever you are, young lady, Odin blesses you.

Duncan Trussell 3:00 Odin blesses you.

Joe Rogan 3:02 Odin blesses you for your, your, your truth.

Duncan Trussell 3:04 Yeah, yeah. It was the-

Joe Rogan 3:06 And for your wisdom.

Duncan Trussell 3:07 Dude, I was so shocked.

Joe Rogan 3:09 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 3:09 I was-

Joe Rogan 3:09 We don't need, we don't need this computing power.

Duncan Trussell 3:12 I was stunned, man, 'cause like, uh, like I've never... And, and that, that moment has kind of made me perpetually love Apple, 'cause they're training their employees not to like s- like pressure sell shit, but just to actually help customers-

Joe Rogan 3:25 They probably were out of stock. She just didn't... (laughs) She couldn't sell you one anyway.

Duncan Trussell 3:30 She was probably-

Joe Rogan 3:30 She's like, "Dude, you don't even want one." (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 3:32 She's probably quitting.

Joe Rogan 3:34 (laughs) Yes.

Duncan Trussell 3:34 She's quitting. She's sick of her job. For the last four days, she's been telling everyone-

Joe Rogan 3:38 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 3:38 ... no matter what they came in to buy, she's like, "You know, you don't need this."

Joe Rogan 3:41 Her boss has been saying creepy shit to her. She's been ready to quit for a while. He's an asshole.

Duncan Trussell 3:46 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, no. "Okay, Mark. Okay, I'm gonna go out on the floor, Mark." "Jessica, I've noticed your sales have gone to zero over the-"

Joe Rogan 3:53 "Hey, uh, move those new laptops, will you?"

Duncan Trussell 3:55 (laughs) Yeah. "Sure, Mark."

Joe Rogan 3:58 With a wink.

Duncan Trussell 3:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:59 Mark, Mark's got a creepy wink.

Duncan Trussell 4:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 4:01 Can you get away with that at work? What can you do now? Well, if you're like, uh, "Hey, Suzie, uh, make sure you have that copy done to personnel by 2:00."

Duncan Trussell 4:11 No.

Joe Rogan 4:12 Can't do that.

Duncan Trussell 4:12 Hell no.

Joe Rogan 4:13 You can't wink and go...

Duncan Trussell 4:15 Hell no.

Joe Rogan 4:15 You c- you definitely can't do the gun.

Duncan Trussell 4:17 Peow. Nope. Unless-

Joe Rogan 4:18 If you-

Duncan Trussell 4:18 ... you're doing it to everybody. If you're in a meeting, you could go-

Joe Rogan 4:22 No, 'cause then you're a mass shooter.

Duncan Trussell 4:23 ... puh-puh-puh-puh-puh-puh-puh. Oh. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:25 You can't do it to one person.

Duncan Trussell 4:27 Fuck. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:27 You can't do it to a group of people. You can't make the finger gun anymore. The finger gun's gone.

Duncan Trussell 4:31 You can't do... I, I, you know, I'm, we're both, we have cool jobs, dude, so like I have to imagine that that's gone. Like, you know, in my house, the finger gun's not go-

Joe Rogan 4:41 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 4:41 ... the gun's not gonna... I shoot my dogs every day. In front of my wife, I like looking at her Cavaliers and being like, "Bam, bam. Dead. Now what? Now what?" (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:53 (laughs) You can't even play a round anymore.

Duncan Trussell 4:55 I love those dogs.

Joe Rogan 4:55 But it's like there's no room for nuance because there are crazy people that do shoot people, you can't pretend to shoot people anymore.

Duncan Trussell 5:02 Dude, this is it, man. This is the, exactly the fucking problem of being interconnected by technology, is that we are paying for the sins of the v- of the small percentile of absolute dumbasses on the planet. And because of that, they're... You know, you know anytime I look at a sign, any sign that's got like an obvious thing in it, don't sh- don't shit in the hot tub, or like on the roller coaster, don't, don't get out of your seat. When I look at that, I think, that's m- because of dumb, dumb, dumb-

Joe Rogan 5:38 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 5:38 ... because there w- might be a person who's in the roller coasters like, "Oh, standing up will be more fun."

Joe Rogan 5:44 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 5:45 Didn't do it, mean to do a Southern accent, by the way. I'm from the South. I don't think they're all dumb.

Joe Rogan 5:50 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 5:51 (sighs) This is too many people talking. There's too many people talking in this world. Didn't used to be like that. This is a new thing. For the last 10 years-

Joe Rogan 6:00 ... people started talking.

Duncan Trussell 6:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:03 No pe- the re- the average person didn't have a voice 20 years ago. There's great things to anyone having a voice, great things.

Duncan Trussell 6:11 Great.

Joe Rogan 6:11 Great things.

Duncan Trussell 6:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 6:12 But we're gonna have to relearn human communication.

Duncan Trussell 6:16 Right.

Joe Rogan 6:16 We're gonna ... We can't use the old rules for today. It just can't work. It can't work. It's, it's t- and it's too easy to be an asshole. People gotta stop seeking that out. Like, I, I, the lashing out at people for no reason. It's just, it's so crazy how many people do it. You'll see someone post something and someone will be like, "Fuck you, you dumb piece of shit. Don't you realize that this is why this-"

Duncan Trussell 6:42 Dude.

Joe Rogan 6:42 "... and that is why that."

Duncan Trussell 6:44 Any ... I ... You know Steven Kotler? He's been on this show a few times.

Joe Rogan 6:47 Sure.

Duncan Trussell 6:48 He's awesome and they're doing-

Joe Rogan 6:49 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 6:49 ... he's doing this new psychedelic study, psychedelics and flow states. So I retweeted a tweet 'cause he, that he's like, they're doing research right now. They need people to fill out a survey. So I retweeted that to help Steven out, just like, "Ah, cool. Yeah-"

Joe Rogan 7:03 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 7:03 "... that's a cool thing. I think psychedelics probably do induce flow states. I'd like to find out for sure." But within like six comments, it's still up there if y'all wanna look, some dude wrote to me something along the lines of like, "You're hurting people and don't even know it." That's six down. It's like, hurting people? I can't remember what language he used, but it's like, what the fuck are you... This is a survey, dude. Like what are you talking about? Like is it maybe he means by retweeting surveys, that sucks 'cause no one wants to see that on their timeline? But I think he meant you're hurting people by, uh, demystifying and destigmatizing psychedelics.

Joe Rogan 7:44 Yeah.

Narrator 7:45 This guy.

Joe Rogan 7:45 Little do you know you're-

Duncan Trussell 7:46 Oh, yeah. See-

Joe Rogan 7:47 ... funding cruelty.

Duncan Trussell 7:48 Funding, funding cruelty.

Joe Rogan 7:51 I like how you just said, "Huh?"

Duncan Trussell 7:53 'Cause I want the explanation 'cause it's like when someone says something like that, it's so terribly, absolutely, impossibly wrong from my reality tunnel that it's like I wanna get in their reality tunnel and hear ... 'Cause that guy really bel- that ... He believes it.

Joe Rogan 8:08 Well-

Duncan Trussell 8:08 Or he's a troll.

Joe Rogan 8:09 It could be he's a troll. It could be that he's had terrible experiences with psychedelics. That's ... You know. Maybe he's-

Duncan Trussell 8:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:18 ... one of those guys that had a real ... You know, look, when people get really into something, they want everybody to get into it. I'm a terrible example of that. I'm telling everybody, "You gotta do yoga. You gotta do yoga."

Duncan Trussell 8:28 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:29 Th- this happens with, with everything.

Duncan Trussell 8:32 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:33 And people that get sober, like people that have a real problem, they have it at a like ... We all know someone who's gone off the deep end with drugs, right? When they come out of that, some folks turn into evangelists for sobriety.

Duncan Trussell 8:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:47 And it gets super annoying.

Duncan Trussell 8:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:49 And one of the things they do is they demonize all positive experiences-

Duncan Trussell 8:54 Yes.

Joe Rogan 8:54 ... that were with the same substance as their negative experience. In their fucking crazy head, they've decided because they had a bad trip, every trip is bad. The millions of people tripping-

Duncan Trussell 9:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:06 ... all over the world, taking mushrooms, finding God and love and companionship-

Duncan Trussell 9:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:11 ... and harmony with the universe and an, an acceptance of their mortality-

Duncan Trussell 9:15 Yes.

Joe Rogan 9:15 All that doesn't count 'cause Billy couldn't keep his shit together at the Pink Floyd concert.

Duncan Trussell 9:20 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:20 Because this fucking asshole decided to eat the entire (laughs) -

Duncan Trussell 9:24 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 9:24 ... the, the entire bag of mushrooms and he tripped his balls off and was screaming. They had to take him to the hospital.

Duncan Trussell 9:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:30 And he, and he called his ex-girlfriend and cried to her for hours, and-

Duncan Trussell 9:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:35 ... now her boyfriend, the new boyfriend wants to beat him up, but he doesn't even remember doing it. Like-

Duncan Trussell 9:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 9:39 That guy's an idiot. Okay? There's a lot of those people out there, a lot of 'em, a whole lot of 'em. And there's people that just aren't geared for psychedelics for whatever reason. You know? There's people that are like really close to losing their shit with regular reality.

Duncan Trussell 9:54 For sure.

Joe Rogan 9:55 And for them, it's not a good idea. It's not a good idea.

Duncan Trussell 9:58 Absolutely. That's definitely something that like, in my old age, I wanna put in like italics and underline, that's, what you just said.

Joe Rogan 10:07 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 10:07 Because when I was younger ... When you're younger and you are in that evangelical part of your psychedelic life, you can become like, if you're not careful, ridiculous and irresponsible. And you start throwing out there this like idea that is not only fundamentally wrong, it's n- fundamentally wrong in everything w- as far as I'm concerned, which is there's not really a one cure to your troubles. You know what I mean? So ... But with psychedelics, people

Duncan Trussell 10:37 think, "This is the answer! This is the answer! This is it! This is what we need!" And it's like, "Well, it's part of what some people need." But if you've got manic depression for example, if you've got bipolar ... You know. Dude, I, I had this moment where this, uh, some parents came up to me and were ... Did I tell you about this? They were ... They came in to talk to me, um, at a show and they were like talking about how their kid liked my podcast. And it was really sad because he had been at m- one of my podcasts and I think he had come on stage to ask a question or something or, or, or, or ... And, and they were looking for a recording of the live show 'cause they thought maybe they could hear him talk or get some like his, him ... his laughter or something. But anyway, what happened was he, uh ... I think he had some kind of, um, bipolar. I'm not sure what, but his, uh ... One of my friends, Raven, he's like his ... He, he uses the term gyro. His gyro was off a little bit, you know? Something was off a little bit. But anyway, the kid went and did ayahuasca in Peru. He did a eight night or one ... You know how they're doing these like w- I don't know how ed- They do it every night or every other night, eight night retreat, drinking the medicine every night. And then after that, went to some kind of like other shaman or some woman. I don't know who, who it was. I'm not, I'm not sure of the deets. But then he came home and he jumped off a waterfall and killed himself.... 'cause, 'cause, he, he, he, what had happened is, uh, he, a manic s- he was in a manic state. It triggered a manic state, um, and he killed himself.

Joe Rogan 12:22 Jesus.

Duncan Trussell 12:22 And, and I re- and that was ayahuasca, you know? That's like the medicine, right? And, and so (sighs) it just, for some reason, I think some people are, uh, de-emphasizing what it means to be healed by a psychedelic or to be worked on by a psychedelic or to enter into that state because it's becoming, thank God, uh, destigmatized.

Joe Rogan 12:49 Much more so.

Duncan Trussell 12:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:50 Do you remember how it was 20 years ago?

Duncan Trussell 12:53 Dude.

Joe Rogan 12:53 It was- you couldn't even talk about it.

Duncan Trussell 12:55 Couldn't talk about it. Couldn't mention it. It was u- it was bad, bad, bad drugs. It was heroin.

Joe Rogan 13:00 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 13:00 It was on the same level as like you, you, if you were taking LSD, that was like heroin, man. So-

Joe Rogan 13:06 Yeah, people would look at you like you're crazy. And then there's also, you know, there's real problems that people have with being tested at work. A lot of people get tested at work and people are worried about losing their jobs. So drugs don't just become a thing where you could fuck up and, you know, and get addicted to them. But now they've become a thing that could take away your livelihood.

Duncan Trussell 13:25 Yes.

Joe Rogan 13:25 Take away your livelihood.

Duncan Trussell 13:26 That's right.

Joe Rogan 13:27 They check your pee. They put this state of paranoia on their employees. Just imagine that feeling. You're working for some office.

Duncan Trussell 13:34 Sure.

Joe Rogan 13:34 You probably don't dig the gig anyway, right? You don't even like it.

Duncan Trussell 13:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:37 And they have to check your piss every now and then. And they, they don't let you know when. "Duncan, can I see you for a moment?"

Duncan Trussell 13:42 Sure.

Joe Rogan 13:42 "Hi, Duncan."

Duncan Trussell 13:43 Hi.

Joe Rogan 13:43 "It's that time of the year, random drug test."

Duncan Trussell 13:45 Okay.

Joe Rogan 13:46 "So I'm just gonna have to go with you and watch you pull your penis out and, um-"

Duncan Trussell 13:50 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 13:50 "... put it into this cup-"

Duncan Trussell 13:51 All right.

Joe Rogan 13:51 "... and give me a little sample of your body-"

Duncan Trussell 13:53 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:53 "... fluids."

Duncan Trussell 13:53 "Okay, baby."

Joe Rogan 13:54 "Okay?"

Duncan Trussell 13:55 "Yeah. Whatever you want."

Joe Rogan 13:56 What if they- what if that didn't work anymore? What if they figured a way around it so they, they had to collect your shit? "I need to see you shit."

Duncan Trussell 14:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:02 "I need to see your asshole open up-"

Duncan Trussell 14:03 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:04 "... and I need to see that tube come out into this Tupperware container."

Duncan Trussell 14:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:07 "And I'm gonna be there."

Duncan Trussell 14:08 Yeah, that'd be-

Joe Rogan 14:09 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 14:09 Thank God, in a way, thank God that's how they detect drugs. Thank God it's through the piss.

Joe Rogan 14:14 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 14:14 Thank God like, thank God it's not like you, you know, like probably, I don't know this for sure, but I bet every asshole has a thumbprint. Like, you know how everybody has a different thumbprint?

Joe Rogan 14:23 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 14:24 I bet like if you took asshole prints every human would also have like a, a different asshole print.

Joe Rogan 14:29 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 14:30 And like-

Joe Rogan 14:30 Could you imagine if that was true? If like you could see footpr- in fingerprints. Like, oh, look, it gives you the ingredients. This guy's like 60% asshole.

Duncan Trussell 14:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:38 It says it-

Duncan Trussell 14:39 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:39 We just didn't look at this.

Duncan Trussell 14:40 No, I don't mean asshole. I mean the literal asshole.

Joe Rogan 14:43 Oh.

Duncan Trussell 14:44 Like if you take a person's asshole and put like, and you're, uh, th- uh, like a-

Joe Rogan 14:47 Oh, like an asshole print, like a retina scan.

Duncan Trussell 14:48 ... put it on ink. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:50 Yes.

Duncan Trussell 14:50 Like a retina scan. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:51 (laughs) It's the brown eye retina scan.

Duncan Trussell 14:56 Everyone-

Joe Rogan 14:57 Wow.

Duncan Trussell 14:57 ... for sure, probably, the asshole has a thumbprint. It's just like-

Joe Rogan 15:00 Probably, for sure.

Duncan Trussell 15:01 For sure.

Joe Rogan 15:01 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 15:01 So if like you took psychedelics and it caused that thumbprint-

Joe Rogan 15:05 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 15:05 ... to change a little bit-

Joe Rogan 15:06 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 15:06 ... and that's how they told where it's, they don't even wanna look at your shit. You just have to, they have to look at like your, you, they have to scan your ass and they're like, "Oh."

Joe Rogan 15:13 Ooh.

Duncan Trussell 15:13 "The print changed. You did mescaline."

Joe Rogan 15:15 Ooh.

Duncan Trussell 15:16 That's, we're lucky it's in the piss. But-

Joe Rogan 15:18 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 15:19 But also if you really think about the fact that we are in a world (laughs) where people have to go to work, to do a job, that by the way, man, if there is a dude you need to get on this podcast and does a book that you would love, David Graeber wrote this book called Bullshit Jobs. This guy is a fucking genius, man. And this book, Bullshit Jobs, breaks down the phenomena of, uh, how many, many people are working in jobs that don't do anything for the world or the company they're working for. And it's not like this judgmental thing where he's like, "You, that's a bullshit job, you're a blah, blah, blah." He's, one of the, he's like a anthropologist, so he's very precise. But one of the qualifications for your job to be a bullshit job is you know that it's really kind of a worthless job. It's not really doing anything. And like the companies have gotten so fucking big that, uh, they, they end up having like departments or people running departments or extra employees that don't really need to be there at all. And they have to pretend to be, to work. That's what he writes about. He's, he, he, he writes that the, if you really want to torture a person, uh, not only give them like the job of like, you know, pouring a glass of water in an empty glass and pouring it back. But then add to it that they have to deceive their boss into thinking that they're like doing an important job or they lose their job. So these, not only are these like s- some corporations and companies scanning your piss to see if you're taking a substance that is allowing you to connect with h- uh, home, what you actually are. They are also demanding that you spend many hours a day lying to them that you're doing work that you're not doing. Like if you're fucking efficient, you know, and this is another thing, uh, Graeber writes about. Forgive me, David Graeber, if in any way I misconstrue this. I read your writings stoned. But the, and, and, but the, the, um, the, the, the other fucking element to it that is absolutely atrocious and fucking horrible is that, uh, these substances are connecting us to home, they don't want us to be in those states, and they're asking us to fucking lie all day. And you know what psychedelic means? The, the etymology of psychedelic?

Joe Rogan 17:49 No.

Duncan Trussell 17:50 It means mind manifesting or soul manifesting. Right? So a psychedelic connects us potentially with the truth, what we are, our identity. Right? And these companies, they're asking us to lie, to be the opposite of our ide- identities, to wear weird, a suit or s- or some kind of dress code, and to sit in a desk where because you're efficient, you get your job done in 45 minutes. And for the next six hours, you gotta sit and-... type, and pretend that you're working, knowing it... You're a person. And knowing that this is, like, unethical. You're... But if you, if you like, go and tell your boss, "Hey, man, I don't really have much to do," you might get fired. The boss might... Like, in the book, he cites one person, 'cause he did like, a survey. And he cites one person who went to her boss and she's like, "Hey, I can finish my job in two hours. I need... Can I have other stuff to do?"

Joe Rogan 18:52 (exhales)

Duncan Trussell 18:52 And her boss is like, "Don't talk about that. Stay quiet about that."

Joe Rogan 18:54 Oh.

Duncan Trussell 18:56 Yeah, man. That's the fucking world we're in right now 'cause of automation. There's less to do. Computers are making shit fast. It's... Why are we work... We're working the exact same amount of time we were when there were no computers.

Joe Rogan 19:08 But you have to be there to get paid.

Duncan Trussell 19:09 And you have to act like you're doing something or they can you.

Joe Rogan 19:12 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 19:13 So-

Joe Rogan 19:13 How many people right now are doing just that while they're listening to this?

Duncan Trussell 19:17 A lot.

Joe Rogan 19:18 A lot.

Duncan Trussell 19:19 And, and by the way-

Joe Rogan 19:20 If you, if you had to guess- (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 19:22 What?

Joe Rogan 19:22 ... what percentage of people are listening right now that are really supposed to be doing some bullshit job, and they're kind of sitting in front of their keyboard with earbuds on, just barely paying attention, trying not to get caught looking at porn?

Duncan Trussell 19:34 Yeah. Yeah. Uh, probably all over the planet, uh, over a million. Over a million in the workforce, probably.

Joe Rogan 19:43 When do you think companies had to put in rules that you can't look at porn at work? Like, that wasn't a thing in the '70s. It wasn't a thing-

Duncan Trussell 19:53 Hmm.

Joe Rogan 19:53 ... in the '80s.

Duncan Trussell 19:54 Right.

Joe Rogan 19:54 It wasn't a thing in the '90s.

Duncan Trussell 19:56 Right.

Joe Rogan 19:56 Then all of a sudden, you could just find porn online. And people will... They have a work computer that's hooked up to the internet. Like, when did companies start going, "Oh, yeah, we didn't know about that. Yeah, you can't look at that."

Duncan Trussell 20:09 Dude, I, I mean, I'm sure it started with like, Penthouse, right? Like, even when they had Penthouse, like, Penthouse magazine. Like, when you had fucking like, you know-

Joe Rogan 20:16 Yeah, for sure. For sure it started with magazines.

Duncan Trussell 20:18 You couldn't bring your fl... You couldn't bring your Penthouse, your fucking Hustler to work.

Joe Rogan 20:21 That's true, but th- but looking at something online is so much easier than going to the store and getting a Hustler.

Duncan Trussell 20:28 Right.

Joe Rogan 20:28 Like, the access is universal.

Duncan Trussell 20:31 Your-

Joe Rogan 20:31 Instantaneous. Everyone has the, the ability to just go and download it.

Duncan Trussell 20:36 You know, if we're gonna, like, ask questions that are impossible to answer, s- t- like, how many people right now do you think listening to the podcast are in their bullshit job, jerking off to porn-

Joe Rogan 20:47 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 20:47 ... while they listen?

Joe Rogan 20:48 At least one dude.

Duncan Trussell 20:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 20:50 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 20:52 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 20:52 (sighs) For sure, that's what dudes do.

Duncan Trussell 20:55 Yeah, I mean, 'cause you-

Joe Rogan 20:56 They can get away with it, they jerk off, especially a guy with a bad job who could find a way to jerk off somewhere.

Duncan Trussell 21:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:01 "Let me just get five minutes in this bathroom and jerk off, just so I don't have to think about this stupid fucking job."

Duncan Trussell 21:06 Sure. Dude, come on, like-

Joe Rogan 21:07 That's like sexual assault.

Duncan Trussell 21:09 I don't think it is.

Joe Rogan 21:10 Jerking off in an office.

Duncan Trussell 21:11 Not in the...

Joe Rogan 21:12 What if you scream?

Duncan Trussell 21:14 If like-

Joe Rogan 21:14 And everyone knows. You're gonna go like, "Hey, I'm gonna go in there, I'm gonna jerk off. When I cum, I scream." That's sexual assault.

Duncan Trussell 21:20 Oh, for sure. Well, that is.

Joe Rogan 21:21 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 21:22 I fucking feel like suing you right now, man.

Joe Rogan 21:25 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 21:25 That's fucked up. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 21:27 Can you imagine, you work with some guy and he's like 300 pounds and you're like 150 pounds, and you're like, "Hey man, uh, I need to, uh, figure out how to fix this computer. Uh, we're gonna have to unplug everything for a while." He goes, "Okay, cool. I'm gonna go in the bathroom and I'm gonna jerk off, and when I cum, I scream."

Duncan Trussell 21:46 Dude, I don't know why you even have to add the scream to it. It's like, I mean, I, I think-

Joe Rogan 21:49 What I'm saying is, just even for a dude, it's a terrible prospect.

Duncan Trussell 21:53 I think it's, uh, interesting too, 'cause when you consider like, the act of shitting versus the act of jerking off is like, far more, like, repulsive. You're, you're expelling like, foul smelling toxins from your body-

Joe Rogan 22:07 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 22:07 ... into the toilet. And if you say to your friend, "Hey, I, I, I gotta go take a shit, man," y- your friend's probably gonna be like, "Well, you didn't need to tell me that." Like, "Okay, I don't..."

Joe Rogan 22:15 Right.

Duncan Trussell 22:15 But he, but y- your friend's not gonna be like, "Whoa, dude."

Joe Rogan 22:19 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 22:19 "What?"

Joe Rogan 22:20 Right.

Duncan Trussell 22:21 And, and yet jerking off, really, if you think about it, it's like you're giving yourself a hand mach- massage that ends with like a little spray of like cream coming out.

Joe Rogan 22:29 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 22:29 It, y-

Joe Rogan 22:29 Horrific.

Duncan Trussell 22:30 It's like, it, it's, it's, it's like, what... But in our culture, we're like, "No! No! Don't do it at the office. My God, John."

Joe Rogan 22:39 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 22:41 "Don't do it here, John."

Joe Rogan 22:43 (laughs) I'm just picturing John, just with an itchy trigger finger, just ready to reach into his pants.

Duncan Trussell 22:50 No. No.

Joe Rogan 22:52 (groans)

Duncan Trussell 22:53 No. John? No, did you do it again, John?

Joe Rogan 22:58 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 22:58 It's a gross relationship that the worker has now with the corporation and, and it's an unnatural relationship. And it's a relationship that seems to have like, dehumanized people to the point of being automatons that don't have a sex drive, that don't deserve to be able to explore their consciousness. And, um, this is a, uh, a real, uh, problem, and, uh-

Joe Rogan 23:23 Do you know what Ari told me?

Duncan Trussell 23:24 What?

Joe Rogan 23:25 You know Ari studied the Talmud and did, did it for like 12 hours a day when he was a, a young-

Duncan Trussell 23:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:30 ... young man.

Duncan Trussell 23:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:31 He told me that there was one passage where, in one of the ancient texts, where it was talking about battling a dragon. And he said, he's like, "This doesn't make sense 'cause everything in here is supposed to be a story that actually happened. Like, what is this dragon?" "Oh, the dragon is a metaphor for masturbation," they tell him.

Duncan Trussell 23:53 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 23:53 So the dragon that takes away young boys, this is... (laughs) It is a, it is a metaphor for masturbation.

Duncan Trussell 24:01 (laughs) That is-

Joe Rogan 24:01 Did I talk about this on the podcast? Yes. Dude, it's, it's... You know, Ari knows about as much as anyone you're ever gonna meet about Orthodox Jewish traditions and the, the, you know-

Duncan Trussell 24:14 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:14 ... the religion and the, the texts. He really did study that shit every day, 12 hours a day, for years.

Duncan Trussell 24:20 I know. In Israel, right?

Joe Rogan 24:21 Yeah, yeah. So when he tells you about it and, you know, he got the tran-... He got the actual translation of the metaphor-

Duncan Trussell 24:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:29 ... from a guy who's a scholar. He's like-

Duncan Trussell 24:31 Yeah, dude. Yeah. That's a dragon.

Joe Rogan 24:35 That's a dragon.

Duncan Trussell 24:35 That's like... I think like, if I wanted, for whatever reason, to dissuade people from jerking off, I could come up with a way better like, thing than a dragon to represent it, you know?

Joe Rogan 24:45 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 24:45 There'd be some other thing like a... I don't know, man, like a f- a f- ... What's like a-What, what would be like the creature version of a rolled up ball of dried cum that you've thrown next to your bed? And someone walks into your bedroom and sees the rolled up ball of dried cum Kleenex and is just kinda like, "That's gross. You didn't clean up your cum Kleenex."

Joe Rogan 25:09 It would be like one of them Ghostbuster villains.

Duncan Trussell 25:11 Right.

Joe Rogan 25:12 Like some sort of plasma thing that just jizzes all over you. Blah!

Duncan Trussell 25:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:15 You know, they'd get Ghostbustered.

Duncan Trussell 25:17 What do you think about the anti-fap movement?

Joe Rogan 25:20 Anti-fat movement?

Duncan Trussell 25:21 Fap, F-A-P.

Joe Rogan 25:23 Oh, no, no jerking off?

Duncan Trussell 25:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:25 Um-

Duncan Trussell 25:26 No fap, not anti-fap.

Joe Rogan 25:28 No fap.

Duncan Trussell 25:28 Anti-fap's a different movement.

Joe Rogan 25:29 Well, there's good and bad. The good thing is sex will be way more pleasurable. The bad is it'll be way more desirable. So, like to, to mitigate your sexual urges so you don't do stupid things and hang out with stupid people-

Duncan Trussell 25:46 Right.

Joe Rogan 25:46 ... or have sex with people you don't really like but you think are hot 'cause you're horny-

Duncan Trussell 25:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:49 ... and they're willing, which is a lot of people. They get, they get roped up in these relationships-

Duncan Trussell 25:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:53 ... with these, uh, guys and gals that they're not really in love with-

Duncan Trussell 25:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:57 ... but they like to fuck.

Duncan Trussell 25:58 Right.

Joe Rogan 25:58 You know? Um ... You know, it's g- Like, what do you think about it?

Duncan Trussell 26:07 Well, l- I think that there ... Y- you know what I th- What ... Something I always think back on is when you were sponsored by Fleshlight.

Joe Rogan 26:15 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 26:16 And this is when we were doing the podcast from your house and, and you'd come to do your podcast and you'd walk away with a Fleshlight.

Joe Rogan 26:21 (blowing raspberry)

Duncan Trussell 26:23 So I ended up with like, I don't know, three or four Fleshlights. And like at first I just wanted like ... You had different types and at first I just went for like, oh, the one that looks like a pussy.

Joe Rogan 26:34 (laughing)

Duncan Trussell 26:34 Right? But then like, you know, it was like, oh, I got that one. But then you had like one that was like ... I don't know, man, like some kind of like gargoyle-

Joe Rogan 26:42 Alien thing.

Duncan Trussell 26:43 ... alien thing. It was really not-

Joe Rogan 26:44 Blue or something.

Duncan Trussell 26:44 It was really fucking weird, man. But anyway, you know, I fucked those things.

Joe Rogan 26:49 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 26:50 And, and uh, and, and, and I ... When I think back to it, it's like the first time I did it, it tricked my brain.

Joe Rogan 26:58 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 26:58 The second time or the third time I did it, it wasn't getting the same effect. Whereas when I have sex with a human, it's a completely different... It feels like it's a completely different series of chemicals that must be being released in my mind.

Joe Rogan 27:16 Yeah, you're uniting with someone. You're bonding with someone. You certainly get that oxytocin from orgasming together-

Duncan Trussell 27:22 Yeah. S-

Joe Rogan 27:23 That bonds people.

Duncan Trussell 27:24 So I've always thought, uh, generally like if I'm in a period in my life where I'm jerking off a lot, it's like usually like there's something imbalanced in there.

Joe Rogan 27:34 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 27:34 Like I don't mean to apply like a, a sin to it at all. I'm just saying like personally-

Joe Rogan 27:38 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 27:39 ... it feels a little dissipative when you're doing it a lot.

Joe Rogan 27:44 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 27:44 There ... Just, I don't know. That's-

Joe Rogan 27:46 No, I completely agree. It, but that's the balance. But the balance is also like you don't wanna just be horny all the time.

Duncan Trussell 27:51 No.

Joe Rogan 27:51 'Cause when you're horny, you make shitty decisions. So you like-

Duncan Trussell 27:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:55 You'll date someone just for sex.

Duncan Trussell 27:58 Yeah. Well you need to like ... I mean, I think that there is something to be said for figuring out how to, uh, deal with like tho- that kinda energy. W- like if you ... So that's an, that's an energetic state. Like you, if suddenly you get ... Being horny is an energetic state.

Joe Rogan 28:16 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 28:17 It's energy. Like if you're really horny and you sit and like watch the, the feeling itself, it's electrical. Like you can feel it moving around in your body. It like, it can almost make you twitchy a little bit. Like it's like a very potent energetic state. So theoretically, instead of trying to get ... The question would be rather, is there a way to release that energy that isn't through the tip of my dick in the form of DNA? Is there a way for me to release that energy in other ways or is the only way, the only valve on that, to cum? That's a question. What do you think?

Joe Rogan 28:55 I think there's, when this natural buildup happens, it makes people more, uh, easily aroused. It makes people more concentrating on sex. And I think that it, that can put you out of balance too. You can be put out of balance both by too much masturbation, you could definitely be put out of balance by too much desire for sex.

Duncan Trussell 29:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:18 Because you're just horny.

Duncan Trussell 29:19 Sure.

Joe Rogan 29:19 And you could just take care of it yourself and you'd be relieved and then you could think clear. You know, I think the body needs a balance, right? That's why I'm a big proponent of exercise. I'm a big proponent of meditation and mindfulness-

Duncan Trussell 29:32 Yes.

Joe Rogan 29:32 ... and just trying to ... I mean, it sound ... That's all ... Those are toxic words right now, meditation and mindfulness.

Duncan Trussell 29:37 Are they?

Joe Rogan 29:38 Yeah, they've been thrown around by too many knuckleheads.

Duncan Trussell 29:40 Oh.

Joe Rogan 29:41 Like there's something about it that it's like, oh, that's kind of a bullshitty word. You kinda-

Duncan Trussell 29:45 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:45 You know what I mean?

Duncan Trussell 29:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:46 You're like, oh, I'm just all about mindfulness.

Duncan Trussell 29:47 Ah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:47 Like, oh, you're annoying. That's what you are.

Duncan Trussell 29:50 Dude, I-

Joe Rogan 29:50 You're the annoying guy.

Duncan Trussell 29:51 I, I, I saw a book just yesterday in one of these like boutique stores. Someone had made a sarcastic kids book called The Grown-Up's Guide to Mindfulness.

Joe Rogan 30:00 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 30:00 And whoever wrote that fucking book hates the word mindful. Ha- ha- just r- definitely has an obnoxious friend who's into mindfulness because the, the, the book is just like a ... First of all, the, the guy doesn't seem to really understand what it is in the book. Like it's, uh ... He seems a little confused about the nature of it. But, uh, and I remember looking at that and being like, oh, I guess people are getting annoyed with the word mindfulness now. Like the pendulum's swinging that way. Yeah. I-

Joe Rogan 30:26 Yeah. It's one of those words that people love to say. It sounds good and it makes you seem like a, like a spiritual person.

Duncan Trussell 30:34 Yes.

Joe Rogan 30:34 So it gets ... When a word gets moved around and used too much, like something happens to it where it gets icky-

Duncan Trussell 30:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:42 'Cause it's like, it becomes popular and then people start using it. And then you see, like, a bunch of phony guru type dudes at seminars using it. "What's important here-"

Duncan Trussell 30:50 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:51 "... is mindfulness."

Duncan Trussell 30:51 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:52 "It's very important that we..." You know how there's, like, typically unique behaviors? You know what I mean?

Duncan Trussell 30:57 Yes.

Joe Rogan 30:58 Like there's, there's, there's... Especially when it comes to, like, people that are full of shit, there's like a typical uniqueness. Like, there's a, just a thing that a lot of people adopt and it sounds-

Duncan Trussell 31:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:08 ... like everyone else.

Duncan Trussell 31:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:10 And it's just a way that people do it.

Duncan Trussell 31:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:12 And, uh, I, I hope you understand, like, what are you doing?

Duncan Trussell 31:16 Sure.

Joe Rogan 31:17 Like, why are you doing that?

Duncan Trussell 31:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:18 You're, you're adopting this weird, funky thing. And, you know, I think it's really important that we practice mindfulness.

Duncan Trussell 31:24 Mm.

Joe Rogan 31:24 It falls into that. It falls into that.

Duncan Trussell 31:26 Hm.

Joe Rogan 31:26 Even though it's an excellent practice.

Duncan Trussell 31:28 Well-

Joe Rogan 31:28 It's very important.

Duncan Trussell 31:29 And... But people, y- you know, it's called an, um... I, I, I just, I now ha- I took on, for lack of a better word, I'm working with an actual, uh, teacher of the Kagyu lineage of Buddhism, which is like Chogyam Trungpa's lineage of Buddhism, and he's amazing. And he's-

Joe Rogan 31:47 Wow.

Duncan Trussell 31:47 And he's teaching me mindfulness meditation practice, this guy David Nickterd. But, um-

Joe Rogan 31:53 How does he deal with masturbation?

Duncan Trussell 31:55 What's cool about him is if you asked him, he'd, (laughs) he would tell you, I'm sure.

Joe Rogan 32:00 He would tell you?

Duncan Trussell 32:00 There's no, like, yo, with... You know, that he wouldn't be like, "Well, how dare you a- ask me that question?"

Joe Rogan 32:05 Right.

Duncan Trussell 32:05 But the, i- i- i think that probably, I don't, I can't answer for him, I think it would fall in line with what you're saying with balance, you know, which is that it's really, like, uh, sort of the, the concept with it is the thing that, that's happening right now, whatever it may be, you can just, you know, apply mindfulness to it. You could b- apply, like, being in the moment and being with the thing that's happening right now. And so, th- the, the thing he's teaching me, I love it so much, dude, because it isn't woo-woo-y or, like, out there or crazy. It's literally this very simple way that you meditate, th- the way that you sit, which is you sit on a cushion, you put your hands on your knees, and, uh, and you sit back. And the, he, the word they use in this Kagyu lineage for it is the warrior pose. And what that means is that it's a kind of confidence. It's the way, like, people who are, like, confident sit. So you sit like that when you're meditating. Your legs are crossed or you can sit in a chair if you want, and you look straight ahead about eight feet, nine feet, and you watch your breath.

Joe Rogan 33:23 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 33:23 And when you go into your thoughts, which happens, of course, you go, you think thinking, and then you go back to your breath. That's it.

Joe Rogan 33:34 You say thinking?

Duncan Trussell 33:35 You don't say it, you think it.

Joe Rogan 33:36 Think thinking.

Duncan Trussell 33:37 Thinking.

Joe Rogan 33:37 Thinking, thinking.

Duncan Trussell 33:37 Just so... 'Cause what, what's all these... So, like, what, what you start realizing when you start this practice, and full disclosure here, man. You know me, Joe. I have problems with discipline and I have problems with, like, sticking to stuff over and over again. And working with this guy has been incredible, because it's actually getting me to, to do it, right?

Joe Rogan 33:56 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 33:57 Uh, but still, I have, like, I did it today, didn't do it yesterday. I'm just, I don't wanna get out there with some nonsense that I'm, like, spending all day long meditating, that's all.

Joe Rogan 34:07 Right, right.

Duncan Trussell 34:07 But what you start seeing is, when you're doing it, is you realize, like, oh, there's a cycle happening in my consciousness, in my mind. There's a cycle that's happening in my life, which is that I kind of blink into the moment following the breath, and I blink out of the moment into the thought realm, right?

Joe Rogan 34:25 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 34:25 We're like little fireflies. We flicker into the moment. We're here. Now we're here, we're not lost in our thoughts, we're not thinking about the next thing we're gonna say, we're not thinking about the next thing we're gonna do, we're just here in this moment, and then bloop, we're off. You know, off and running, like, thinking about the bills, thinking about the girl, thinking about the thing, thinking about that, and then that leads to another thought and another thought. Next thing you know, you've been thinking for three years straight. You know what I mean? Or three minutes or five hours or whatever, and then you come back. And that's this cycle. This is a cycle that happens. So mindfulness is starting to pay attention and, and, and, and to that cycle. B- And, and the breathing thing is kind of like a respiratory mnemonic device, which is that suddenly you're... What's been happening to me now is I'll just be, like, walking down the street and then notice my breath. Oh, shit, I'm back. Oh, I'm here. I was totally up in my head. Oh, I'm back. That was thinking, you know?

Joe Rogan 35:32 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 35:32 That's all. It's very, very, very simple, but he's just teaching me the basic shit right now. It does, I think, get pretty interesting.

Joe Rogan 35:39 On my own, thinking about my own life and observing other people's lives, I've come up with this thing that I bring up all the time, the, the momentum of your past. Like, you're, you're... Like, so many people as they're going down the street, so many people as they're interacting with people, they're carrying the momentum of all the fucked up things that are going on. Bills that they have to pay-

Duncan Trussell 36:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:00 ... and things that they forgot to do, and a career they never chased, and a girl they never called back, and a thing that they lied about-

Duncan Trussell 36:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:08 ... and a thing they stole, and the reason why they got fired from work. And maybe if I call my boss I'll get my... And all this craziness you're bringing with you into everything.

Duncan Trussell 36:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:16 And that-... is so hard to escape. It's so hard for people to escape the momentum of the past. You know, people-

Duncan Trussell 36:22 Mm.

Joe Rogan 36:23 ... sort of, uh, they get into this thing of defining themselves by failures, by past failures.

Duncan Trussell 36:28 Right.

Joe Rogan 36:28 And never just learning from them. Going, "Oh, I'm that fucking loser."

Duncan Trussell 36:31 Right.

Joe Rogan 36:32 You know, it's a real problem.

Duncan Trussell 36:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:33 It's a real problem with people to be able to learn from something and to just look at yourself. And it's painful to look at yourself, so everybody wants to pretend that they didn't do anything wrong.

Duncan Trussell 36:42 Right.

Joe Rogan 36:42 Or that they, everybody else is an asshole. And that-

Duncan Trussell 36:45 Yes.

Joe Rogan 36:45 Yeah. And so, you, when you're do, what you're doing by doing that is you're stunting your own growth. You feel like you're protecting yourself because you're protecting your ego. You're like, "You know, I didn't do anything wrong. Fuck him."

Duncan Trussell 36:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 36:56 "He's the asshole." But you know you could've avoided that. You know you could've done better.

Duncan Trussell 37:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:01 Like, everybody has moments like that in their life. And the more you avoid those and don't take credit for the ones that you actually fucked up, the more you actually hurt yourself in this ironic thing.

Duncan Trussell 37:11 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:11 Because it seems like you're protecting yourself. No, you're, you're ... I'm exonerating myself from guilt. Just fuck it, it wasn't me. I didn't do it.

Duncan Trussell 37:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:18 But you know you did. So in your head, you're the guy who lies about making mistakes instead of you're the guy who mans up to your mistakes-

Duncan Trussell 37:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:26 ... and realizes it was a mistake, and then vows to do better.

Duncan Trussell 37:30 Yeah, man. That's beautiful. That's it.

Joe Rogan 37:31 It's beautiful. You have to, just have to be able to say you're wrong. You have to be able to say I'm sorry.

Duncan Trussell 37:35 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:36 You have to be able to ... And you gotta be able to look at yourself, like all the time, not even just when you fuck up.

Duncan Trussell 37:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:42 Because you can avoid some of those fuck-ups. Just look at yourself critically along the way. But we all have to understand that we're, we are all in evolving process.

Duncan Trussell 37:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 37:51 Like I had this conversation with Dennis McKenna. It's a crazy conversation because it's a ridiculous thing to say. He was talking about, uh, Donald Trump, and I was saying, "W- d- isn't it possible that he could grow and learn?" Like why do we give up on people?

Duncan Trussell 38:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:06 Why does a guy get to a certain age and we say, "Oh, he's 60, he's set in his ways."

Duncan Trussell 38:11 Right.

Joe Rogan 38:11 "He's 70. He'll never change."

Duncan Trussell 38:12 Right.

Joe Rogan 38:12 "He'll never evolve." W- you don't ever say that about a 20-year-old. You see some asshole who's a 20-year-old-

Duncan Trussell 38:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:17 ... you say, "He just needs discipline, he just needs love."

Duncan Trussell 38:21 Love.

Joe Rogan 38:21 "If he finds the right per- people in his life, right person to, to love-"

Duncan Trussell 38:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:24 "... he'll be okay. He's gonna mature and eventually he's gonna be a solid man." But you get to a certain age where we just give up on you.

Duncan Trussell 38:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:30 We're just like, "You're still alive, but you've passed the cycle that I usually enjoy people to be ready to like sort of-"

Duncan Trussell 38:37 Right.

Joe Rogan 38:37 "... interact as valuable, creative, loving members of society."

Duncan Trussell 38:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:41 You passed that by. You're still thinking about yourself only deep into your 60s.

Duncan Trussell 38:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:45 This is stupid shit. This is shit you're supposed to do when you're 17.

Duncan Trussell 38:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:48 By the time you're 70, you're supposed to be going, "Oh my God, I don't have much time left. Oh my God. Like, what have I done while I'm here? What do, what is it's important? What do I-"

Duncan Trussell 38:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:57 "... feel the best about? I feel the best about love and companionship and friendship and real warmth and interaction-"

Duncan Trussell 39:04 Right.

Joe Rogan 39:04 "... between p- people that you care about." This money thing, man, this is not ... You can't keep chasing this.

Duncan Trussell 39:09 Right.

Joe Rogan 39:09 Can't keep chasing power. Can't keep chasing money.

Duncan Trussell 39:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:12 It's ... You're gonna reach a point where it's not gonna matter because you're gonna die. So you really wanna be that guy from the bumper sticker, "He who dies with the most toys wins"? Because this is literally what you're working towards. You're working towards a joke.

Duncan Trussell 39:24 Yeah. Well, I, well let, can I ... One thing I would add to that is that ... So w- you're saying here, and you're, you're right, man. But th- the, one thing I think I disagree, uh, with you on is that you're creating a situation where that's it. You die and that's it. The momentum sma- ... It's like the momentum goes into a black hole. It's gone. Like the momentum has been like, is descendi- it vanishes, that momentum, right? But the way I've been taught is that actually that momentum keeps going. That momentum doesn't just stop because your body stops, right? So that momentum keeps going. And in fact, the, what's really beautiful is like, th- and it's good that you call it momentum. That's exactly what it is.

Joe Rogan 40:06 It's what it feels like with me.

Duncan Trussell 40:07 It's a tendency.

Joe Rogan 40:08 Yes.

Duncan Trussell 40:08 We have a tendency towards a certain thing. We have proclivities and tendencies and habituations. And if you just kind of like, if you put you and me in a room and put a bunch of different objects on the floor, right? You're gonna go towards something and I'm gonna go towards something else, right?

Joe Rogan 40:25 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 40:26 You know, if there's fucking VR goggles and a, and a, and a goddamn badass, like some kind of like s- badass compound bow manufactured at fucking DARPA.

Joe Rogan 40:36 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 40:37 You know what I mean? And there's VR goggles manufactured by DARPA. I don't know. I'm going for the VR goggles. You're probably gonna go for the crossb- or the bow, right?

Joe Rogan 40:44 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 40:45 So we have proclivities, we have ... That's the momentum, right? That is one way you can understand what karma is, right?

Joe Rogan 40:51 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 40:51 So that's the momentum. That's the moment- so that thing that you've got right now, when you begin to really look at it and think about it, you could ask yourself, "When did this start, this momentum?" Right? When did this, th- these proclivities and, and, and tendencies and things that I'm being like sort of pushed towards, when did they start? And a lot of it is, you know, your parents taught you certain things, but ...

Joe Rogan 41:15 Mm-hmm. Well, let's talk about a super common one that's horrible, cigarettes. You, you got cooked by that bug.

Duncan Trussell 41:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:22 Uh, Ari got hooked by that bug. Red Band's still hooked.

Duncan Trussell 41:24 Mm.

Joe Rogan 41:25 Joey Diaz kicked it. You know, that's a, that's a really, really, really common one, man, that sort of defines people. "I'm that guy who smokes. I'm gonna walk into the store and even though I know these things cause cancer, I'm gonna buy a pack."

Duncan Trussell 41:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 41:38 "I'm gonna go outside and I can't wait to light it up. I'm just-"

Duncan Trussell 41:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:40 "... not even thinking about that right now, man. I'm trying to relax." And you get that thing in your mouth and you're like (lighting up cigarette) .

Duncan Trussell 41:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:45 There you go. And you, you take that drag and you feel that cancer-causing chemical rush.

Duncan Trussell 41:52 Yep.

Joe Rogan 41:52 And you're like, "I'll take it. I'm all right today. No cancer there." (inhaling) And you take a big deep breath and you blow it out.

Duncan Trussell 41:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:58 And you look at the other fellow cancer dodgers and they're just looking at you-

Duncan Trussell 42:02 Cancer dodgers.

Joe Rogan 42:03 ... and smoking together. And everybody just, they're just really good at dodging cancer.

Duncan Trussell 42:07 So, you know, another, uh, o- one way you could actually say it is like every time you do that, you're planting a seed.So, every time you smoke a cigarette, you could imagine that you have this field, right? And the field is your health. And in that field, any time you, like, exercise or do something, you know, decide instead of eating the fucking ice cream, you're gonna eat the seaweed chips or, like, any time you do that, you could just imagine, obviously it's not the way it works exactly, but you could think, "I'm planting a seed in this field." Right? So, if I keep planting certain types of seeds in any type of field and I cultivate those seeds, they're gonna grow into something.

42:43 Yeah.

42:43 Right?

42:44 Yeah.

42:44 That's karma. So w- when, when, you know, for a person, when the cancer comes, when the muscles come, when the failure comes, when the success comes, if you look at that moment, you realize this is actually the flowering of a thing that's been growing for a very long time inside of me or in the world or in time. So, that's the idea. People already have, within them, planted-

43:11 Yeah.

43:11 ... all of these seeds that haven't, haven't been expressed yet into time because they're still inside of them. Like the dude with the ... Like, imagine a guy with ... The guy who, like, shot the guy 'cause he had road rage, you know?

43:24 Mm-hmm.

43:24 That guy, for years, had a really bad anger disorder and he knew it, you know? There ... He would look ... He would think at times in those very calmest moments, "I sure get really angry all the time. I don't know if this is normal." Right?

43:38 You know, a lot of those people were beaten when they were kids.

43:41 That's it, dude. Yeah, yeah.

43:42 Super common.

43:44 Yeah, yeah.

43:44 Super common.

43:45 Trauma.

43:46 Mm-hmm.

43:46 So, yeah, man. That's like cigarette smoking, any kind of behavior that, like, is risky-

43:54 Mm-hmm.

43:54 ... or over time produces some kind of negative result. It's just planting seeds.

43:59 Yeah.

44:00 You know?

44:00 Yeah.

44:00 And so the momentum you're experiencing right now is the sum total of all those fucking seeds that you planted and that were planted inside of you over the course of your life. That's what you're- you are. You're like a walking field of karma at varying stages of growth, growing varying types of vegetations. And some are good and some are bad, but it's like, that's what you are right now. And what's beautiful about that is that means that you can start cultivating that field, you know? You don't have to just, like, let it grow wild and, um, and pretend every time you smoke a cigarette or do some stupid shit, you're like an unconscious farmer, you know? Right?

44:43 (laughs)

44:44 (laughs) I is throwing seeds everywhere. Why? Oh my God. What? Holy-

44:47 Yeah. Can't believe I'm drinking and driving again, but I gotta get home.

44:50 There you ... Oh, shit.

44:51 Vroom.

44:51 Oh my God. The DUI plant grew again in the field. I wonder why that thing keeps growing in my field.

44:57 (laughs)

44:58 Well, 'cause you keep fucking drinking and driving, dude.

45:02 (laughs) The DUI plant.

45:03 Yeah, yeah.

45:04 Oh my God.

45:05 Yeah, yeah.

45:06 Yeah.

45:06 You can cultivate it. That's what's beautiful about it.

45:09 Yeah.

45:09 You know? You can cultivate the field. You don't have to let it just, like, have fucking weird random weeds spring up. Though let a patch or two have some weeds 'cause those are fun.

45:17 Imagine spending that tobacco money.

45:20 Mm-hmm.

45:20 Imagine spending that money.

45:22 Mm-hmm.

45:22 Thinking about all that cancer. Just spending all that money.

45:26 God.

45:26 Just buying a big castle with all that cancer money. Look at it all. (laughs)

45:30 Castle cancer.

45:31 Hey, the people want it. They want it. Y- in this country, you've got the freedom to buy whatever you want.

45:37 Well, yeah, right. I mean, it's a person's choice, but, but to get back to what you were just saying, the ethics of the fucking thing, how about this? Uh, how many people who run big tobacco own stock in companies that make chemotherapy drugs?

45:51 Oh.

45:52 There's a big question.

45:53 Oh my God.

45:53 Like, how many of those people in their portfolio that they barely know about, that they're like, "Well, you know, like, uh, a really big investment these days is, uh, c- gene therapy for cancer." "Really? Is cancer out of hand these days? Huh, really interesting. I wonder what could be going wrong?"

46:11 The problem with cigarettes is that they're addictive.

46:15 Well, th-

46:15 Not just that they kill you-

46:16 Yeah.

46:16 ... but that they're addictive. Like, I- I've smoked-

46:20 Sure.

46:20 ... a cigarette before and it gives you a head rush.

46:22 Ooh.

46:22 You get, like, a nice little weird rush.

46:23 It's ... I th- ... And also the, the other problem is nicotine is a medicine and it d- and it has, like, some health benefits if used in the right way, and also it's a nootropic. So-

46:34 Yeah.

46:35 ... it, it's like not ... It's not just like it gives you a rush. It's like, it's, it, it's, uh, somehow-

46:40 Fires your brain synapses.

46:41 ... focusing you a little bit. Yeah.

46:42 Stephen King said that was one of the most difficult things, uh, when he quit smoking-

46:46 Right.

46:46 ... was not having one while he writes.

46:48 That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

46:50 Mm-hmm.

46:50 'Cause you ... 'Cause that's the nature of addiction. It l- It's like kudzu does to trees. It wraps around your favorite thing in life and tricks you into-

46:58 What's kudzu?

47:00 Kudzu is a plant that was introduced from Japan into, I think from Japan into the South. And it's just a, uh, a growing w- vine that when it ... it wraps around trees and it covers them up completely so the trees can't get any sun and the trees just die.

47:16 Hmm.

47:17 Yeah, it wasn't native to the United States. So, sometimes, I don't know, maybe they took care of kudzu, but when I was a kid, you would drive by these beautiful forests that were ... where the trees were just covered in fucking kudzu. Yeah, like that.

47:29 Holy shit, dude.

47:30 Yeah, yeah.

47:30 That's crazy.

47:32 Yeah.

47:32 It's like they got eaten-

47:33 Yeah.

47:33 ... by other plants.

47:34 That's right, man. And, and those trees are dying. They can't get the sun. The-

47:38 Oh my God.

47:39 Yeah.

47:39 That's insane.

47:40 Yeah, and that's a great metaphor for addiction bec- or, or for-

47:43 What?

47:43 Yeah, 'cause you-

47:44 That is a perfect metaphor.

47:45 Yeah.

47:45 Oh my God, that's insane. I ... How did I not know about this?

47:49 I don't know. It definitely seems like something you'd know about. Look, it looks like they're alive.

47:52 This is-

47:52 It looks like people.

47:53 Dude, there is just too much to know. There's too much cool shit.

47:57 A lot of shit out there.

47:58 Too much. Look at that ph- ... Go to the one above that. No, above that. Above that one. Ab- Right above that. There, that one. Look at that.

48:05 Yeah.

48:06 Look how green that is. That's insane.

48:08 Yeah.

48:08 Dude, that does something weird to your brain.

48:10 It's beautiful.

48:11 It's like it makes you feel like you're-

Joe Rogan 48:14 ... like you're on a drug.

Duncan Trussell 48:15 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:16 Like, if you were standing there and it was that green and that, like, vibrant, you'd be like, "Oh, my God."

Duncan Trussell 48:21 Yep. Yeah, you would. It would feel so good.

Joe Rogan 48:24 When do you ever see anything that looks like that?

Duncan Trussell 48:26 Well-

Joe Rogan 48:26 I say let those fuckers take over. Let the kudzu take over? Bitch-ass trees can't fight off the kudzu.

Duncan Trussell 48:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:32 They don't deserve to live.

Duncan Trussell 48:33 Jesus.

Joe Rogan 48:34 They have to fucking evolve. These kudzu are cooler.

Duncan Trussell 48:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:36 They're, they're offering you a cooler look.

Duncan Trussell 48:38 But here's what-

Joe Rogan 48:39 They're like, "Hey, you wanna look at your boring-ass fucking gray bark-"

Duncan Trussell 48:42 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:42 "... and your bullshit leaves on the ground? Or-"

Duncan Trussell 48:44 Right?

Joe Rogan 48:44 "... how about we just take over everything, motherfucker? We cover the floor."

Duncan Trussell 48:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:48 "It's like a carpet."

Duncan Trussell 48:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:49 "We cover the floor and the hillsides and all the trees."

Duncan Trussell 48:52 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:52 "Everything, green as fuck." Okay, w- what, what kind of green? Like, Flo Green, man.

Duncan Trussell 48:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:57 Like, vibrant Flo Green.

Duncan Trussell 48:59 Flo Green. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 48:59 Where you're, if you smoke weed there, you're gonna trip balls.

Duncan Trussell 49:02 (laughs) Yeah, look at that.

Joe Rogan 49:04 What is that? It covered a statue? Is that a golf statue?

Duncan Trussell 49:06 I think that's just a-

Narrator 49:07 A light pole.

Joe Rogan 49:07 ... telephone pole.

Duncan Trussell 49:08 A light pole.

Joe Rogan 49:09 Whoa.

Duncan Trussell 49:09 It seems like someone could've sculpted that a little bit, though.

Joe Rogan 49:12 Maybe, or maybe it's just really covering a light pole.

Duncan Trussell 49:15 Yeah. Yeah, kudzu, man.

Joe Rogan 49:17 Dude.

Duncan Trussell 49:17 There you go. So that, that, that's like a really funny thing that like, like-

Joe Rogan 49:20 That's-

Duncan Trussell 49:21 ... alcoholics will get their alcoholism wound up in their social life or like their creativity, their creative cycle, so they will think like, "Fuck, man, without the booze, I don't think I'm gonna be able to write as well."

Joe Rogan 49:34 Right.

Duncan Trussell 49:34 Or, you know, whatever it is. Like, mostly it's just people have this, uh, uh, a really smart way to avoid getting healthier or, or the learning curve associated with getting healthier, uh, and- and it's a really intelligent trick to playing yourself, which is to imagine that, you know, whatever it may be that's currently out of balance in your life, if you remove that, you're not gonna be able to be as good as person, you know?

Joe Rogan 50:02 Hmm.

Duncan Trussell 50:03 And there's a lot of alcoholics out there who, who, who, performers who think, "Oh, if I don't drink, um, I gotta have a beer on stage, man." Or, or, or like-

Joe Rogan 50:12 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 50:12 ... where it gets hardcore is when it's like actually fucking wrapped up in the art publicly. Like, I don't know if you're aware of this rapper who died named Lil Peep. You know about Lil Peep?

Joe Rogan 50:27 I heard about him.

Duncan Trussell 50:28 Yeah. In one of his videos, it just shows like the, the floor of his car, the f- just pill bottles scattered everywhere, right? So like part of the identity he, he was projecting into the world involved like the romanticization of addiction to pharmaceutical medications, right? And so that's where it gets real... Or like big comics when all their jokes are, are about being fat.

Joe Rogan 50:53 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 50:53 And if they, to, so w- so they, they don't only have to like worry about like, you know, being fat. They have to worry about, "If I got healthy, I don't know if my jokes are gonna work anymore."

Joe Rogan 51:05 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 51:06 So you know what I mean? It's like that's, that's how insidious it can get, you know?

Joe Rogan 51:10 Yeah. That's a good one. That one does creep in. I actually heard Coven James. I heard someone say that to him, "You lose weight, you're losing roles."

Duncan Trussell 51:18 God, someone just told me it's like you either need to lose 15 pounds or gain (laughs) 15 pounds if you wanna get in the movies. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:25 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 51:27 I don't remember who said that.

Joe Rogan 51:29 Oh. (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 51:29 But it's like, yeah, it's like, you know, you, you, you're, you become this like character or something like that.

Joe Rogan 51:34 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 51:34 And the next thing you know, your fucking addiction has like just riding you around like a horse, whispering in your ear, "Without me, you won't know where to go." And now you're fucked.

Joe Rogan 51:45 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 51:45 You're fucked. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:46 "I'm your comfort blanket-"

Duncan Trussell 51:47 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:48 "... when you're all alone," when you're drinking alone in your hotel room. Ooh.

Duncan Trussell 51:53 Mm. Mm.

Joe Rogan 51:53 Dark. That's darkness.

Duncan Trussell 51:54 That, that's dark, but then when you get into it too, when you're not just-

Joe Rogan 51:57 (sighs)

Duncan Trussell 51:57 ... drinking alone, but you're like-

Joe Rogan 51:59 Telling stories to yourself?

Duncan Trussell 52:00 Celebrating it.

Joe Rogan 52:02 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 52:02 You're pretending, anytime you find yourself pretending you're fucking Hunter S. Thompson-

Joe Rogan 52:08 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 52:09 ... look out, baby.

Joe Rogan 52:11 Yeah, if you get a cigarette holder.

Duncan Trussell 52:12 'Cause then, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Unless you're writing like him-

Joe Rogan 52:15 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 52:15 ... you ain't Hunter S. Thompson, all right?

Joe Rogan 52:17 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 52:18 You're, you're having fun, no doubt. But I know in my life, like the times where I've been like, "Eh, j- it's kinda like Hunter S. Thompson." It's like, "Dude, you need to go to bed."

Joe Rogan 52:27 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 52:27 Like, stop. You're like, you, you, you, you're, you're tricking yourself. Now, you know, that's all. Just don't trick yourself. By the way, if you wanna be a self-destructive alcoholic, drug addict, whatever it is, be that thing. But don't fool yourself into thinking that's not what you're doing.

Joe Rogan 52:45 That it's romantic.

Duncan Trussell 52:46 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:47 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 52:47 Don't like, as you're plummeting towards splattering all over the fucking ground-

Joe Rogan 52:51 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 52:52 ... pretend that you're flying towards the Earth. Well, maybe you could. Maybe that's actually a cool way to die.

Joe Rogan 52:56 Maybe that's a good way to die.

Duncan Trussell 52:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:58 That's a good way to think about it right before impact. Maybe that's what the water tower guy did.

Duncan Trussell 53:03 Yeah, dude. Maybe so. I, I, but-

Joe Rogan 53:05 I mean, who knows what you see when you do eight days of ayahuasca? Who knows what you see? That seems like eight days of any potent psychedelic. I've never done that. I've never done more than one day in a row. I've done one day in a row, take a break, maybe a little pot the next day.

Duncan Trussell 53:23 Sure.

Joe Rogan 53:24 And then I don't do anything for like months. That's how I've always done it. I've never done like-

Duncan Trussell 53:29 Right.

Joe Rogan 53:30 ... big session followed by big session.

Duncan Trussell 53:33 Yeah. Yeah, I, uh, you know, we can only speculate. I don't know exactly what that would be like. I mean, I can imagine.

Joe Rogan 53:40 Couldn't imagine.

Duncan Trussell 53:41 Dude, I had this crazy v- like idea.

Joe Rogan 53:44 Okay.

Duncan Trussell 53:44 A crazy idea. Now, this is a lens. I don't know if it's true or not, but, uh, obviously it's probably not true. But I, I got this crazy idea that like, and again, like this is a, with you, I could just say this and I don't have to preface it. But since people listen to your podcast, I have to preface it by saying, I do not believe this. I am not going insane. But this is a fun thing to think about, you know?

Joe Rogan 54:07 Right.

Duncan Trussell 54:07 It's okay to imagine shit in your mind. It's okay. Like, you can imagine stuff, but, so I was thinking like-... inspiration, right? Specifically, I was thinking like J.R.R. Tolkien. When you read Lord of the Rings, it's like that guy went over there. That writing is so beautiful and so perfect and so, like, interdimensional.

Joe Rogan 54:29 It's-

Duncan Trussell 54:29 Extra dimensional.

Joe Rogan 54:30 ... old.

Duncan Trussell 54:31 It's fucking old.

Joe Rogan 54:32 It's an old book.

Duncan Trussell 54:33 And it's beautiful, his writing.

Joe Rogan 54:34 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 54:35 And I was thinking, "Oh, that guy, Tolkien, that inspiration is outflow from the DMT realm into this dimension through the, um, through the processor of his meat computer, and this is like a kind of drip-"

Joe Rogan 54:52 Mm.

Duncan Trussell 54:52 "... coming out of a dam." Right? The dam is something that's been constructed by power structures who want to keep that realm out of here, right? And so over there, you get, usually, a kind of message, right? And the message is usually something along the lines of, "We need to love each other. We could love each other here. There's something more important than money." Uh, th- that's to really be very reductive about it. But some version of that story that usually involves some kind of desire to no longer harm people or to reduce suffering or to be a better person or however you want to put it, right?

Joe Rogan 55:36 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 55:37 So there's a dam that's been built, and the dam is built by the people who s- scan your piss for LSD. It's people who have created an intentional legal obstruction between one realm and the other, which is the realm McKenna called Hyperspace and the realm that we're currently existing in, which is where there's a lot of scientific materialism, where people only believe that there is only matter here. There's only matter, that's it.

Joe Rogan 56:09 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 56:09 There's nothing else, no spirit, no soul, right? So-

Joe Rogan 56:12 The gatekeepers.

Duncan Trussell 56:13 The gatekeepers. The- I- I've been- I used to think of them as gatekeepers.

Joe Rogan 56:16 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 56:16 Now I think of them as dam builders, right?

Joe Rogan 56:18 Dam builders.

Duncan Trussell 56:18 And what happens is, from time to time, a big crack in the dam opens up, right? That's when someone like fucking Martin Luther King appears and is standing in front of so many people, telling them, "I think that we're all the same, is what I think. I think we're all the same." And he's doing it in this very charismatic, beautiful way, right?

Joe Rogan 56:45 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 56:46 That's a big fucking crack in the dam, because over on this side of things, they don't want us to be all the same. They want us to be separated by a lot of different fucking things. They don't want us to be all the same over here. So the cracks in the dam open up, and the big cracks, bam. The little cracks, they're like the good art, the good poetry, the great movies, the good- the inspiration. And now what's happening, 'cause of the fucking internet, is all these fucking cracks in the dam are opening up. They can't seal them up anymore. It's like you can't seal the fucking dam anymore. And the singularity that McKenna was talking about, the apocalypse, which actually means lifting of the veil, what that is is when the dam reaches f- like, a point where the structural integrity has been permanently compromised and the DMT realm flows into this dimension in the form of some kind of technology that either unifies all of us or, like, rips a hole literally into whatever that membrane is that separates us from the infinite. And that is what, for whatever reason, over in this dimension, people have been trying to stop. So-

Joe Rogan 58:02 'Cause it impedes progress in terms of, like, making money.

Duncan Trussell 58:06 W-

Joe Rogan 58:06 Building businesses. You can't be building businesses if people are doing LSD on their breaks.

Duncan Trussell 58:10 I, uh, don't think that's true.

Joe Rogan 58:12 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 58:12 I think you could run a wonderful business.

Joe Rogan 58:13 No, no, no, they're gonna come back and they're not gonna be concerned with productivity.

Duncan Trussell 58:17 Well, they're not gonna be... No, no, no. If we get a group of people together and start building something amazing not for money-

Joe Rogan 58:24 Oh, no, I'm just being facetious.

Duncan Trussell 58:26 Oh, I know, I know.

Joe Rogan 58:26 I mean, it c- certainly can be done.

Duncan Trussell 58:27 I'm f- I'm, I'm arguing with the devil's advocate.

Joe Rogan 58:29 Mm.

Duncan Trussell 58:29 What I'm-

Joe Rogan 58:30 Okay, let me play the devil.

Duncan Trussell 58:31 Okay. Nice to meet you, finally. Can I have my soul back?

Joe Rogan 58:34 No.

Duncan Trussell 58:35 Damn it.

Joe Rogan 58:36 This whole thing of you exploring hyperdimensional space and all that stuff, all that does is make you stupider, and you show up at work and you, you're less-

Duncan Trussell 58:46 Right.

Joe Rogan 58:47 ... disciplined-

Duncan Trussell 58:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:47 ... and you're not interested in getting the job done, okay?

Duncan Trussell 58:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 58:50 This company is built on teamwork, okay?

Duncan Trussell 58:53 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:53 And it's built on everyone pulling their weight. Now, if you're off fucking off in hyperspace-

Duncan Trussell 58:58 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 58:58 ... from Friday night to Sunday morning and you barely get six hours sleep over the weekend-

Duncan Trussell 59:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:02 ... and you show up Monday, I'm gonna test your piss, okay?

Duncan Trussell 59:06 All right.

Joe Rogan 59:06 Yeah. And if I find psilocybin in there-

Duncan Trussell 59:09 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:09 ... or anything else fucking squirrelly...

Duncan Trussell 59:11 Do you mind if I show you David S- Nutt's, Professor David Nutt's study on the land set about the dangers of the variety of drugs? I, I'd like... I'm talking to the devil here.

Joe Rogan 59:22 Oh.

Duncan Trussell 59:22 Do you mind if I show you this? Because-

Joe Rogan 59:23 Please do.

Duncan Trussell 59:23 ... if you notice, sir, on this chart, they... Again, published in The Lancet. It was peer-reviewed. This is a very important study. Professor David Nutt, of course, has since, I think, been disbarred in some way or accrued some kind of horrible punishment for being an advocate for psychedelics. But anyway, sir, forgive me, but if you'll, you'll notice on this chart, ps- psilocybin i- is considered the least harmful of, um, mind-altering chemicals.

Joe Rogan 59:50 I'm not interested in harmful, sir. I'm interested in productivity. I want this...... place to run fast. We're in competition and we're losing jobs overseas. Do you know they're gonna start to make Harley motherfucking Davidson motorcycles in Thailand?

Duncan Trussell 1:00:04 Yes, sir.

Joe Rogan 1:00:05 Yeah. What kind of shit is that, huh?

Duncan Trussell 1:00:07 I don't-

Joe Rogan 1:00:07 That's a goddamn American bike-

Duncan Trussell 1:00:09 I don't know.

Joe Rogan 1:00:09 ... and they're making it over in fucking Asia. Why?

Duncan Trussell 1:00:11 All right.

Joe Rogan 1:00:12 Because the people in the factory over here didn't kick ass. Okay? They're over in the fucking park taking their magic mushrooms and tripping balls, when they should be thinking about how to keep this company active. This company feeds and houses-

Duncan Trussell 1:00:26 Yes, sir.

Joe Rogan 1:00:26 ... 150 families.

Duncan Trussell 1:00:27 Yes, sir.

Joe Rogan 1:00:27 You understand that?

Duncan Trussell 1:00:28 Yes, sir. I-

Joe Rogan 1:00:29 Now it's 100. Are you happy?

Duncan Trussell 1:00:31 No.

Joe Rogan 1:00:31 You still want a fucking raise?

Duncan Trussell 1:00:33 Sir, before I forget, I picked up your prescription for OxyCo-

Joe Rogan 1:00:36 Speed!

Duncan Trussell 1:00:37 ... O- OxyContin.

Joe Rogan 1:00:38 I'm on speed, motherfucker.

Duncan Trussell 1:00:40 There you go. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:40 I don't take another Oxy bullshit.

Duncan Trussell 1:00:41 Yeah. You're-

Joe Rogan 1:00:42 That's for pussies.

Duncan Trussell 1:00:43 Yeah. Yeah. You're on Adderall, you're on methamphetamine.

Joe Rogan 1:00:45 Yeah. 100%.

Duncan Trussell 1:00:46 Well, so yeah, right. So-

Joe Rogan 1:00:48 So devil and devil out.

Duncan Trussell 1:00:49 So right. So the answer t- to it is that, uh, oh, I'm talking to you? Oh, well, here's the problem, sir. You don't realize this, but you're kind of a low level priest in a, in a religion that has spread far and wide. And in this religion, uh, it's not really the, the, the money that you're interested in as much as it is the power, because you've become a servant of a being called the Demiurge, which is, uh, essentially attempting to create a sort of authoritarian hierarchy in this particular dimension that's been separated from another place known as the galactic... You can call it whatever the fuck you want, but it's the aliens. It's a galactic civilization that is about to, uh, pour into this civilization and so it really doesn't matter what you do, because within the next 20 or 30 years through technology and through the unification of people because of the tech- that technology, you're gonna either come to our side or go completely insane.

Joe Rogan 1:01:53 Okay. The counter to that, of course, is the only way you're gonna get there, you fucking lazy hippies-

Duncan Trussell 1:01:59 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:01:59 ... is if we make you go to work and we get shit done and you buy things and you keep this fucking country's economy healthy.

Duncan Trussell 1:02:06 I know.

Joe Rogan 1:02:06 That way the technology innovates.

Duncan Trussell 1:02:08 I know.

Joe Rogan 1:02:08 That way we make the hyperspace gateway. You lazy fucking hippies tripping balls-

Duncan Trussell 1:02:14 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:02:14 ... on your lawn furniture.

Duncan Trussell 1:02:15 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:02:15 You're not creating shit.

Duncan Trussell 1:02:16 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:02:16 Okay? You show up for work on time, you get the job done, eventually we'll get our portal. Okay. All right.

Duncan Trussell 1:02:21 Well, it sounds... Okay. Can I just-

Joe Rogan 1:02:23 Back to work.

Duncan Trussell 1:02:23 ... address something you just said, Satan?

Joe Rogan 1:02:25 Yes.

Duncan Trussell 1:02:26 On time. Now, this is a very funny term. Uh, thank God I'm reading David Grape. The, here's a great term, on time, right? So like-

Joe Rogan 1:02:33 Time.

Duncan Trussell 1:02:34 Boss, the, the problem is that like the, the thing you're doing with time or being on time, that's a relatively new imposition into society. And it started with clock towers. During the Industrial Revolution, they put clock towers up so that people always knew what time it was so they wouldn't be late for going to work in a, in a factory, you see. There was a time when people weren't like obsessed with their fucking watch, because the idea that you could sell time... Here's what it is, sir. You think you and I have entered into a contract where for some ridiculous reason I've agreed to sell you eight hours of time, my time, per day. It's essentially a form of, um, slavery. It's a kind of like slavery, except I get to go free for a certain amount of hours per week.

Joe Rogan 1:03:24 Indentured servitude.

Duncan Trussell 1:03:25 Yeah, we can call it that, with like a lit- like less of the power, I can leave any time I want. Indentured servants, I don't think they could, 'cause they were kind of trapped, 'cause until they paid up-

Joe Rogan 1:03:34 Yeah, well, you kinda, certain, certain jobs you're kind of trapped.

Duncan Trussell 1:03:37 Well, you could quit most jobs. I mean, that's kind of the rationalization that people use is they're like, "You can leave any time you want, bud. You can leave any time you want." Mm.

Joe Rogan 1:03:44 The hard jobs are those jobs where people work for salary and their time is just whatever the project takes. Like, do you ever talk to someone who works on video games?

Duncan Trussell 1:03:54 Right now. I've, I've met-

Joe Rogan 1:03:56 Dude.

Duncan Trussell 1:03:56 ... very few pe- I mean, I met a few, but it's like they don't-

Joe Rogan 1:03:58 Dude.

Duncan Trussell 1:03:59 ... work in the big companies.

Joe Rogan 1:04:00 Dude, the hours that they put in before a video game is released is insane.

Duncan Trussell 1:04:05 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:04:05 A lot of them just sleep in the offices.

Duncan Trussell 1:04:07 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:04:08 They're working 16 hours a day just coding.

Duncan Trussell 1:04:10 Right. Ugh.

Joe Rogan 1:04:11 They're all living on top of each other.

Duncan Trussell 1:04:13 Uh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:14 Dude.

Duncan Trussell 1:04:14 Brutal.

Joe Rogan 1:04:15 Dude.

Duncan Trussell 1:04:16 Brutal. Brutal, yeah. Brutal. And, and this is-

Joe Rogan 1:04:20 That's not a job. You're asking for someone's whole life.

Duncan Trussell 1:04:23 That's right.

Joe Rogan 1:04:24 You're asking for their whole life.

Duncan Trussell 1:04:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:26 Like, you occasionally can get away from me and go camping.

Duncan Trussell 1:04:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:04:29 You occasionally get away from me, have a picnic with your family.

Duncan Trussell 1:04:32 Sure.

Joe Rogan 1:04:32 You occasionally can get away. But for many, many months-

Duncan Trussell 1:04:35 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:04:35 ... I want you all the time. I just want you there all the time. And in re- in exchange, I'll give you some money.

Duncan Trussell 1:04:40 So like, conceptually, I don't think that this is like a terrible situation as long as the person is really into what they're doing. Right? And then what we have is just like a, a kind of like a, um, uh, I guess you could say, what? A capitalist c- commune or I don't know what you, what you'd call it. It's like a group of people communing together, uh, seeking to like extract money from the universe.

Joe Rogan 1:05:03 Mm.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:04 But also, like you know what comes to mind? Sorry anyone from Blizzard who's listening who like doesn't like your job there, but I got to, I went to on this tour of Blizzard and they fucking, every-

Joe Rogan 1:05:15 It's a company that makes video games.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:16 They make the best video games outside of like... The only game I notch up with it right now, I'm into God of War. It's so fucking good, but-

Joe Rogan 1:05:25 It looks pretty badass. I saw a lot.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:26 It is amazing. It is amazing.

Joe Rogan 1:05:28 Look at you, look at you.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:29 Oh, dude.

Joe Rogan 1:05:30 So excited.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:30 It's the first triple A game I've liked in so long.

Joe Rogan 1:05:33 What's a triple A game?

Duncan Trussell 1:05:34 Isn't... It's called triple A, right? Triple A. It's a really expensive game to make. It's like a, it's like a hardcore big time-

Joe Rogan 1:05:40 Pull up a video. Let me see God of War.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:42 Oh, God it's so-

Joe Rogan 1:05:43 The graphics look pretty fucking incredible.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:45 Dude, dude.

Joe Rogan 1:05:46 Dude.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:46 It's beautiful.

Joe Rogan 1:05:47 Dude.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:48 Don't get me... Fuck the alien-

Joe Rogan 1:05:49 Dude.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:50 ... damn bullshit. God of War is like... It's so good, man. And like I'm stuck in it right now.

Joe Rogan 1:05:56 So you put on the HTC Vive today, the new one that we have-

Duncan Trussell 1:05:59 But you didn't-

Joe Rogan 1:05:59 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:05:59 You didn't get into a game yet. There's, there's some games in it where you're just like, "Whoa, I see where this is go..." And I saw that from yours, from... But yours was... When I was over your place, what was that? Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:09 Two or three years ago?

Duncan Trussell 1:06:10 Probably two years ago.

Joe Rogan 1:06:11 Look how good that is.

Duncan Trussell 1:06:12 Kratos.

Joe Rogan 1:06:13 Look how good that is. You can see like the dirt on his hands. It's like you watched an episode of Vikings.

Duncan Trussell 1:06:17 Dude, it's really good. And it's, and it's like-

Joe Rogan 1:06:20 ... that bitch ass fucking thing freezing up again. Here it goes. So this is actual game play?

Duncan Trussell 1:06:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:25 See, why is this doing this?

Duncan Trussell 1:06:26 That's fucking game play, dude. That's game play.

Joe Rogan 1:06:28 That's game play.

Duncan Trussell 1:06:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:29 That's amazing.

Duncan Trussell 1:06:31 Yeah, it's incredible.

Joe Rogan 1:06:32 It's amazing.

Duncan Trussell 1:06:33 She's so hot.

Joe Rogan 1:06:34 She's very hot.

Duncan Trussell 1:06:35 I know. The, the-

Joe Rogan 1:06:36 You think you could hang out with a chick who's, like, cut people's heads off with swords?

Duncan Trussell 1:06:38 Yes.

Joe Rogan 1:06:41 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:06:43 (laughs) Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 1:06:45 Look at her. Look at him, rather. Her.

Duncan Trussell 1:06:47 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:06:47 Look at this. This is fucking badass, dude.

Duncan Trussell 1:06:49 But it's not just... Dude, what's great about this game is not just, like-

Joe Rogan 1:06:52 Ooh.

Duncan Trussell 1:06:53 ... the graphics, which are incredible, or the fight mechanics, which are also incredible. But the fucking story is really good and the acting is really good, and, like, the relationships between characters are really intense. This game will make you, like, tear up, man. Like, it's, like-

Joe Rogan 1:07:10 Damn.

Duncan Trussell 1:07:11 ... fucking great.

Joe Rogan 1:07:11 Holy shit. You see what he just did? Chop that dude in half with an ax. Holy fuck.

Duncan Trussell 1:07:16 Whoops.

Joe Rogan 1:07:16 He just got smashed by a giant.

Duncan Trussell 1:07:17 He got smashed. He gets smashed a lot, but he's Kratos, the God of War, he doesn't give a fuck.

Joe Rogan 1:07:23 He does not give a fuck.

Duncan Trussell 1:07:25 Man, that-

Joe Rogan 1:07:25 This is incredible, man.

Duncan Trussell 1:07:26 I wouldn't even show much more of this. It's spoilers. I don't want anybody to see any of the characters or to know what's happening because it's that good. Like, it's such a good game. Most games, the way I've played video games is I try to rush through it for some reason, which is really dumb, to be like, "Oh, I gotta win this thing." This one, you wanna hang out, look around, like-

Joe Rogan 1:07:45 Hmm.

Duncan Trussell 1:07:45 ... see the, the landscape, and, like, you get really into it. It's a-

Joe Rogan 1:07:49 Hmm.

Duncan Trussell 1:07:50 ... glorious game, but, you know, it's, that, to get back to what we were talking about, at Blizzard, uh, one, one of the people working there told me, "We like building World of Warcraft because we like playing World of Warcraft."

Joe Rogan 1:08:08 Hmm.

Duncan Trussell 1:08:08 "We've created a, a dimension we wanna be inside of. Like, we enjoy it." They love it. Like, and, and that's why the game is so good, because it's being made by people who enjoy playing the game.

Joe Rogan 1:08:20 Hmm.

Duncan Trussell 1:08:20 So, I don't know how many hours they work at Blizzard. I imagine it's, it can be a pretty brutal schedule, but, and, and anything you do, even things you love, I, I know become grueling, but I think that example of a company versus a, a company where you're, like, either doing som- something that, that you don't even need to be there to do or you're-

Joe Rogan 1:08:41 Right. Oh, no comparison.

Duncan Trussell 1:08:42 No comparison.

Joe Rogan 1:08:43 No comparison.

Duncan Trussell 1:08:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:43 No. I mean, it might be massive hours a day, but I bet you're having a great time a lot of the time, and the, the actual results, insane. You know, I was friends with a lot of those guys from id Software back in the Quake II days.

Duncan Trussell 1:08:54 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:55 And, uh, played Quake III. I got to play Quake III before it ever came out.

Duncan Trussell 1:08:58 I was with you. We were on-

Joe Rogan 1:08:59 That's right.

Duncan Trussell 1:09:00 That, uh-

Joe Rogan 1:09:00 That's right.

Duncan Trussell 1:09:00 What's his name?

Joe Rogan 1:09:01 In Dallas.

Duncan Trussell 1:09:01 Cliff.

Joe Rogan 1:09:02 No.

Duncan Trussell 1:09:03 Cliffy?

Joe Rogan 1:09:03 That's, that's Cliffy B. He's f- id Soft- id Software is Doom and Quake. Cliffy B is Unreal and, uh-

Duncan Trussell 1:09:10 Oh. No, I was with you when Cliffy B gave his bit tour.

Joe Rogan 1:09:12 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:09:12 I didn't see the Quake tour. Sorry, dude.

Joe Rogan 1:09:14 Okay. Well, they're both amazing. But, we, yeah, we got to see Unreal Tournament when, uh, they were putting that together. And they were putting together this new engine that wound up being used in a bunch of different games afterward, but it was f- fucking crazy. We get to see the graphics, like, as they're designing things. And same thing with, uh, the Quake studios. But those guys all were crazy gamers.

Duncan Trussell 1:09:34 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:09:34 Like, they would, they would get LAN parties and sync all the th- w- we played, at the id Software, we got to play death matches between everybody in the, uh, the studio.

Duncan Trussell 1:09:41 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:09:41 It was awesome to play Quake with the guys who made Quake.

Duncan Trussell 1:09:45 Fucking cool.

Joe Rogan 1:09:46 The funnest shit ever. (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:09:47 Fucking cool, man.

Joe Rogan 1:09:48 And, you know-

Duncan Trussell 1:09:49 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:09:49 ... I mean, what they did was... If you've never played one of those games before, the, the three-dimensional games, when you're running down, you hear things over here behind you.

Duncan Trussell 1:10:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:01 And you, like, you, you, you know, you can turn around and sneak around corners, and people are chasing you around the map and sometimes you can walk and it doesn't make any noise. Or you can run and you can hear the footsteps.

Duncan Trussell 1:10:11 Fucking cool.

Joe Rogan 1:10:12 Fuck, it's the crazy... There's, there so adrenaline-packed when you're playing these games.

Duncan Trussell 1:10:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:10:16 Like, these guys... I'm so terrified we're putting a LAN in here in the, in the next couple weeks.

Duncan Trussell 1:10:22 I know you are.

Joe Rogan 1:10:23 Oh, we're gonna, you and I, we're gonna have some fun.

Duncan Trussell 1:10:25 Well, no we're not, because you're gonna beat me at fucking Quake. I suck at shooters, dude.

Joe Rogan 1:10:29 I haven't played in forever.

Duncan Trussell 1:10:30 Please.

Joe Rogan 1:10:31 I haven't played in forever. I'll probably be terrible for at least the first 16 hours.

Duncan Trussell 1:10:36 Dude, if, if I, like, had a shrink ray and shrunk you, like, into, like, a eight-year-old, you would still beat me at shooters. I suck at fucking shooters, man. I'm like-

Joe Rogan 1:10:46 What is your thing? What do you like? Do you like those, uh, role playing games?

Duncan Trussell 1:10:49 I don't wanna say it, dude, 'cause you're gonna make fun of me.

Joe Rogan 1:10:51 I won't. I won't do it. Come on, Fallon.

Duncan Trussell 1:10:53 I like Hearthstone, man.

Joe Rogan 1:10:54 What is that? (laughs) I don't even know what it is.

Duncan Trussell 1:10:58 Fucking fell for it, man. I should-

Joe Rogan 1:10:59 I didn't, you didn't fall for it. I'm being s- sincere. I don't know what it is.

Duncan Trussell 1:11:02 It's an online fantasy card game.

Joe Rogan 1:11:04 Oh. It's like a furry thing. Like furries?

Duncan Trussell 1:11:07 I love comedians so much.

Joe Rogan 1:11:10 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:11:10 'Cause it's like I knew you were gonna insult me. I just didn't know how. And, like, it's way, the way you did it was way worse than I expected.

Joe Rogan 1:11:19 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:11:19 Like-

Joe Rogan 1:11:20 It's like you pretend to be a fox, right? You're like foxkin. Are you other, are you otherkin?

Duncan Trussell 1:11:24 No, it's not like fucking furries. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:11:25 Is that what it is? Did you just get a kick out of it?

Duncan Trussell 1:11:27 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:11:27 Do you ever do it in your footie pajamas with, like, a little bunny rabbit tail on? (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:11:33 (laughs) Dude.

Joe Rogan 1:11:34 I'm in the woods and I'm a rabbit.

Duncan Trussell 1:11:36 Oh, fuck, man.

Joe Rogan 1:11:38 Donk, donk, donk, donk. I've gotta be clever to get away from the fox.

Duncan Trussell 1:11:40 All right, well-

Joe Rogan 1:11:41 Donk, donk, donk, donk.

Duncan Trussell 1:11:42 It, let me tell you something. It's a wonderful fucking game with, and it's deep and it's got a lot of strategy and I f- and I, and I love playing it, man. I really do. I, I'm, I'm not good at it anymore. I went through a period of being good. I haven't played it in a while 'cause, uh, I've been playing, uh, God of War, but-

Joe Rogan 1:11:58 Oh, look at this. Is this it?

Narrator 1:11:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:00 This looks like death.

Narrator 1:12:03 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:12:03 What is happening?

Duncan Trussell 1:12:04 God dammit.

Joe Rogan 1:12:04 (laughs) What is happening here?

Duncan Trussell 1:12:06 Let's see.

Joe Rogan 1:12:06 They're cards?

Duncan Trussell 1:12:07 Yeah, they're cards. You, you, you basically, like, the n-

Joe Rogan 1:12:10 Hmm.

Duncan Trussell 1:12:10 I'm not gonna explain the rules of Hearthstone on your show, dude. But the-

Joe Rogan 1:12:13 Please don't.

Duncan Trussell 1:12:14 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:12:16 Hmm. This looks, this looks-

Duncan Trussell 1:12:17 It's a great game.

Joe Rogan 1:12:18 This is killing me.

Duncan Trussell 1:12:19 It's a great, it's a great, very fun, very enjoyable game.

Joe Rogan 1:12:23 It's like a good game for nine-year-old girls. That's what it looks like.... get it for my kids. (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:12:28 I'm just thinking like all I had to do is say StarCraft or I could have lied-

Joe Rogan 1:12:31 I know.

Duncan Trussell 1:12:32 ... but I knew I had to tell you the truth.

Joe Rogan 1:12:33 But I knew you were addicted to that. You had a real problem with that for a while. You and I mirror each other in our video game addictive tendencies.

Duncan Trussell 1:12:41 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:12:41 It's, we're both like, "Uh."

Duncan Trussell 1:12:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:12:44 Gotta be careful.

Duncan Trussell 1:12:45 But, dude, you know, this is, this is something I was thinking I wanted to bring up during the podcast, man. It's like when we first started hanging out, you told me something I've never forgotten and it's from The Book of Five Rings, um, by Miyamoto Musashi. And you mentioned something from that book, which is that, um, learn one thing and you will know how to do a lot of other stuff, right?

Joe Rogan 1:13:17 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:13:17 So he would, uh, apparently he would, um, he, he was a samurai.

Joe Rogan 1:13:23 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:13:23 And so he recommended for a samurai not just to learn the sword, but to learn poetry.

Joe Rogan 1:13:28 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 1:13:28 Learn how to paint, learn how to do this stuff because in the meta process of learning, you learn, you, like, you, you, there's something in there that, like, fits onto all forms of learning, right?

Joe Rogan 1:13:40 Well, you don't wanna be too hard, but you don't wanna be too soft. You wanna be a balance.

Duncan Trussell 1:13:45 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:13:45 And, and in a balance you must, you have to be artistic and destructive. You have to be loving and hating.

Duncan Trussell 1:13:51 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:13:51 You know, he, he played games with his opponents. Like, he didn't just fight nobly. He was an asshole. He would, like, show up hours late for duels and make the guy wait.

Duncan Trussell 1:14:01 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 1:14:02 Because he knew the guy would be freaking out.

Duncan Trussell 1:14:03 Ugh.

Joe Rogan 1:14:03 He would show up sometimes with wooden swords instead of metal swords to fuck with their heads. One time he whittled a sword out of an oar of the boat that he, he rowed over to the beach where he was supposed to have the sword fight and showed up hours late, fucked the dude up with an oar.

Duncan Trussell 1:14:18 Oh, dude.

Joe Rogan 1:14:19 Yeah, he would, he would play games with people.

Duncan Trussell 1:14:21 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:14:21 He knew that there was psychological warfare in him showing up late.

Duncan Trussell 1:14:25 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:14:26 You know?

Duncan Trussell 1:14:26 Right. Yeah, he, and, and do you remember the first sentence of the book?

Joe Rogan 1:14:31 I do not. I remember the quote that you just were talking about 'cause I say it all the time. It's like the reason why I have this tattoo on my arm. This is Musashi, you know?

Duncan Trussell 1:14:38 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:14:39 It's once you understand the way broadly, or once you know the way broadly-

Duncan Trussell 1:14:42 That.

Joe Rogan 1:14:42 ... you'll see it in all things.

Duncan Trussell 1:14:43 That.

Joe Rogan 1:14:44 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:14:44 So, so and which is also, uh, as above, so below. It's another way of saying that. It's like, and it, so it's the concept that, uh, if I practice something-

Joe Rogan 1:14:55 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:14:55 ... for example, like right now, like, I'm l- learning how to do modular synthesis, like I have Modular Synths, they're badass. It's like for making music, right?

Joe Rogan 1:15:06 Mm-hmm.

Duncan Trussell 1:15:06 I'm 44. I'm not, like, thinking to myself, like, "Man, one day I'm gonna be fucking Bassnectar." I'm not thinking that.

Joe Rogan 1:15:13 (laughs)

Duncan Trussell 1:15:13 You know what I mean? I don't, I don't-

Joe Rogan 1:15:14 Right.

Duncan Trussell 1:15:14 ... I don't even think I'll, uh, I'll, uh, perform live with him ever. But I'm, I, I, I got sucked into it and now I'm taking it seriously, so I'm learning how to do it for real. Like, and then that pulls you into, like, music theory, right? So now-

Joe Rogan 1:15:29 Yeah.

Duncan Trussell 1:15:29 ... you start looking at, well, what is a song and why does a song, w- why is a song set up like it is and what are notes and what's a tone, right? What's an oscillator? What are these things? And then, like, from that you get pulled into, like, Pythagoras, you know? Like, and then suddenly you're, like, reading, like,