Joe Rogan Experience #1159 - Neil deGrasse Tyson

1. 0:07 – 1:30

   Why there aren’t flying cars—and why science communication is thriving

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:07

      So, why aren't there flying cars?

   2. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson0:09

      (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:10

      (laughs)

   4. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson0:10

      You're just jumping right in. You don't say hi. You don't say-

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:13

      I said hi already.

   6. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson0:15

      ... how's the wife and k- how's the wife and kids? (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      How is everybody, man? How's life? How's your book? It's been on the Times bestseller list for how many weeks?

   8. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson0:22

      Oh, the, the Astrophysics for People in a Hurry. That's been on the, on the New York Times bestseller list for 67 weeks.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:29

      That's pretty intense.

   10. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson0:30

       It's cra- that's, that's a lot for any book, much less for a science book. And so, that tells me, while all these Trump books are wafting in and out, this is bobbing like a cork, like a cork on the ocean waves as the book of the moment th- that either praises Trump or criticizes, or criticizes him come in and off of that list.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:49

       Mm.

   12. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson0:49

       So this tells me that there is this unserved hunger that people have. There's a curiosity that this is serving. And it's (laughs) to, Astrophysics for People in a Hurry, that's kind of a, that's very purposefully juxtaposed. It's like, Neurosurgery in Four Easy Steps. You know, if you saw a book with that title, you'd have to pick it up.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:11

       (laughs)

   14. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:11

       (laughs) 'Cause you'd wonder what's going on.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:14

       Well, not to kiss your ass again, but I always say this about you and I think it's important. You make learning stuff about astrophysics fun. And that's what's missing, you know. It's not that people don't like to be educated, that they don't like to learn. They just don't wanna be bored.

2. 1:30 – 4:34

   School kills curiosity: how to create lifelong learners

   1. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:30

      That's a perceptive point because, you know, think of the image we have of, let's say you're in a school where most people don't go to college, uh, you're in high school. And then last day of school comes. What do people do? They toss their papers in the air as they run down the steps, "School's out. No." What, what's the Rock song?

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:48

      (sings) School's out for summer.

   3. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:52

      (sings) School's out for...

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:52

      Summer.

   5. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:52

      ... at summer. Was it forever?

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:53

      And then ever. Ever, yeah.

   7. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:54

      Then forever.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:54

      Ever, yeah.

   9. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:55

      Right? So that attitude must mean the school didn't train you to embrace curiosity.

   10. JRJoe Rogan2:02

       Right.

   11. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson2:03

       That learning was a chore, and now the chores are over.

   12. JRJoe Rogan2:07

       Yeah.

   13. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson2:07

       So I think the educational system needs an adjustment. Forget whether or not you go to college, 'cause you're gonna spend more years not in school than in school even if you do go to college. What you want, I think, are lifelong learners, lifelong curiosity.

   14. JRJoe Rogan2:21

       Yes.

   15. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson2:21

       Where once you are trained and, and, and, and, and your curiosity is stimulated, the curiosity we all had as children. You're ... Children don't need to be taught to be curious. They are curious to the point of destruction of whatever it is they touch. "Oh, what is this egg on the counter? What is this glass? What is this plate? What's under a rock? What happens if I pull a leg off a daddy longleg?" You know, they are-

   16. JRJoe Rogan2:44

       Yeah.

   17. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson2:44

       ... experimenting with the world. We don't think of it that way, but that's what it is. They're all born scientists. And I say this often. You spend the first years of a child's life teaching it to walk and talk, then you spend the rest of its life telling it to shut up and sit down. (laughs) You know. It's this, this is the wrong combination. So speaking as an educator, I think a missing component of school is, uh, is it the teachers? Is it the curriculum? I don't know. But when you get outta school, you should say to yourself, "Damn, I wanna learn more."

   18. JRJoe Rogan3:14

       It's almost universally accepted too that that's when your learning ends, when you get outta college, it's over. You're not gonna-

   19. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson3:19

       Yeah, you say you're done.

   20. JRJoe Rogan3:20

       Yeah.

   21. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson3:20

       And if it does, then you're ossified in life.

   22. JRJoe Rogan3:21

       Yeah.

   23. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson3:22

       And that's how when the job market shifts, you're not ready for it, 'cause you don't know how to think. You don't know how to learn.

   24. JRJoe Rogan3:28

       Right.

   25. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson3:28

       You don't ... And it's the difference in the j- in the workplace between the person who gets an assignment and say, "I, I, I, I ... Joey, Janet, I need you to do this." "That's not in my job description."

   26. JRJoe Rogan3:39

       Hmm.

   27. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson3:39

       "I'm not trained for this." That's one k- kind of person in a workplace. Another kind of person is, uh, "Here's a new task I need you to do." "Wow, I've never seen that before. Great, let me figure it out."

   28. JRJoe Rogan3:50

       Right.

   29. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson3:50

       These are two completely different species of human being. And what the world needs more of is like the, the second case where you take a new task and you say, "Wow, I get to learn. I'm gonna learn on my own. I'll ask people who know more." You just, you just embrace the act of learning to satisfy your curiosity. And I think this book is capturing that in the public.

   30. JRJoe Rogan4:12

       Well, it must be doing something.
3. 4:34 – 8:09

   Science podcasts, comedians, and StarTalk’s ‘pop culture scaffold’

   1. JRJoe Rogan4:34

      Th- th- this is ... It's a great sign, I think, and I think your podcast is a great sign as well. The success of your podcast and the success of a, a lot of science podcasts, uh, uh, I love-

   2. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson4:43

      That's an excellent n-

   3. JRJoe Rogan4:44

      Yeah.

   4. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson4:44

      ... that you notice that. There's a rise of science curious podcasts out there.

   5. JRJoe Rogan4:49

      Mm-hmm. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is one that I really enjoy.

   6. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson4:51

      Right.

   7. JRJoe Rogan4:52

      Um, I really love Radiolab. They've always got like-

   8. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson4:54

      Radiolab is the-

   9. JRJoe Rogan4:54

      ... really interesting science.

   10. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson4:55

       ... the annual ... perennial favorite-

   11. JRJoe Rogan4:56

       Fantastic.

   12. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson4:57

       ... to so many people.

   13. JRJoe Rogan4:57

       Probably the best.

   14. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson4:58

       Right, right.

   15. JRJoe Rogan4:58

       Yeah. And, and yours as well. And I love Chuck Nice. Shout out to Chuck Nice.

   16. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson5:02

       Oh, Chuck. We l-

   17. JRJoe Rogan5:03

       He's, um...

   18. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson5:03

       We all love Chuck.

   19. JRJoe Rogan5:03

       He's great.

   20. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson5:04

       Uh-huh.

   21. JRJoe Rogan5:04

       But what you're doing is you're making learning interesting and that's why it's so fun. It's, it's, it's, it's ... There's excitement to it. Y- you bring a comedian like Chuck on with you, things get silly, but they're also curious and you're getting these experts and everyone's talking about these various subjects and-

   22. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson5:22

       And as you know, not only yourself as an exemplar of this, uh, standup comedians are some of the smartest people in the world. They have a, they have, they have an awareness-

   23. JRJoe Rogan5:31

       I don't wanna go that far.

   24. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson5:32

       Oh. (laughs) Okay. (laughs)

   25. JRJoe Rogan5:33

       Listen, come to The Comedy Store with me today. I'll change your mind. (laughs)

   26. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson5:37

       (laughs) All right, let me buffer that a little. Uh, uh, uh, okay.

   27. JRJoe Rogan5:40

       They're curious.

   28. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson5:41

       Okay. No. So, so standup comedians are perceptive people.

   29. JRJoe Rogan5:44

       Yes, for sure.

   30. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson5:45

       And he- and they're aware and they notice things that you don't notice. They see the same things you do and get to shape it in a way you never thought possible and then you end up laughing at other things, at yourself.
4. 8:09 – 10:16

   Cosmos, wolves on wires, and making viewers feel science

   1. JRJoe Rogan8:09

      Are you gonna keep doing Cosmos too, though?

   2. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson8:11

      Oh, Cosmos. So, so, so I have one week remaining out of like 70 shoot days to finish shooting Cosmos: Possible Worlds, premiering spring 2019.

   3. JRJoe Rogan8:26

      Oh.

   4. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson8:26

      That's the third installment of Cosmos if you trace the first one to Carl Sagan back in 1980.

   5. JRJoe Rogan8:31

      'Cause your ... I used your segment on wolves, on how wolves became dogs.

   6. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson8:36

      Oh.

   7. JRJoe Rogan8:36

      To show it to my kids.

   8. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson8:38

      A- a- and this-

   9. JRJoe Rogan8:39

      And you can see the little wheels spinning like, "Whoa."

   10. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson8:41

       Yeah. Yeah. Those-

   11. JRJoe Rogan8:42

       Like, "That's how a dog became a dog?"

   12. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson8:44

       But what you didn't see is I'm sitting at the f- at the campfire in this, in this snowy environment and they got wolves walking around me. They're on these fishing wires (laughs) 'cause they, they are not dogs.

   13. JRJoe Rogan8:56

       Right.

   14. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson8:56

       Okay?

   15. JRJoe Rogan8:57

       Yeah.

   16. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson8:57

       They, they-

   17. JRJoe Rogan8:58

       Do whatever the fuck they want.

   18. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson8:59

       Th- wo- correct.

   19. JRJoe Rogan9:00

       Yeah.

   20. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson9:00

       And when they're looking at you it's, it's like, "Should I rip his neck out now or later-"

   21. JRJoe Rogan9:04

       Right.

   22. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson9:05

       "... when I'm more hungry?"

   23. JRJoe Rogan9:06

       Right.

   24. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson9:06

       They're not ... Y- y- there's no eye contact with them because they ... You don't ... Th- They don't see you as anything other than something they could possibly eat and so y- you can't interact with them the way you would with ordinary dogs.

   25. JRJoe Rogan9:18

       Yeah.

   26. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson9:19

       So they're on these fishing, you know, high-tension fishing wire that you can't see against the snow and they're like hooting and hollering around me as I describe. And the name of that show is, And The Wolf Shall Become The Shepherd.

   27. JRJoe Rogan9:29

       Mm.

   28. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson9:30

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan9:30

       My friend did a commercial with a wolf and, uh, i- there's this commercial where he's running up this mountain and the wolf is there. And at the end of the commercial they had to get the wolf to snarl, so what the trainer does is he shows the wolf some meat and then he pulls the meat away from the wolf. And the wolf snarls and they're like ... And then the commercial's over.

   30. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson9:51

       Mm-hmm.
5. 10:16 – 15:01

   Ann Druyan’s role, where Cosmos streams, and learning-through-entertainment

   1. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson10:16

      Uh, all three of these Cosmoses, uh, the original one with Carl Sagan, the one that ... The privilege of hosting in 2014 and 2019, are co-written by Ann Druyan. And she's the, the widow of Carl Sagan.

   2. JRJoe Rogan10:29

      Oh, wow.

   3. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson10:30

      And ... But she ... Kinda in his shadow back then, but she's hugely creative and highly enlightened. And so most of the, sort of the, the, the, the soul energy, if you will, the, the ... What makes Cosmos distinct from other, from other documentaries where you're sort of sitting there learning, you put your thinking cap on, your learning cap on, in Cosmos it's your feeling cap. You're not only learning, you're also feeling the science and its relationship to you, to civilization, to the world, to the universe. And her infusion of this, uh, she's a highly scientifically literate writer, producer, and so I just give a shout-out to her 'cause working with her has been a delight.

   4. JRJoe Rogan11:15

      Is Cosmos on Apple TV or, uh-

   5. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson11:17

      So Cosmos was-

   6. JRJoe Rogan11:18

      ... Amazon or anything?

   7. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson11:18

      S- so Cosmos was, uh, after it first, uh, after it premiered on Fox and then went internationally on NatGeo, uh, it then went to Netflix. So, uh, but I think this n- run of Netflix is gonna drop until the next one comes in.

   8. JRJoe Rogan11:32

      Mm-hmm.

   9. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson11:32

      I think they want to clear the, clear the landing zone for the next Cosmos. But it went to Netflix.

   10. JRJoe Rogan11:38

       But is it available for anyone to get right now?

   11. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson11:40

       Oh, right now? Uh, uh, it should be. I haven't checked, but that's a great question.

   12. JRJoe Rogan11:44

       'Cause I have it all on my DVR and I'm scared to delete it.

   13. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson11:46

       Oh. Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan11:47

       I only have like s- 6%-

   15. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson11:48

       (laughs) Left s-

   16. JRJoe Rogan11:49

       ... hard drive space left.

   17. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson11:50

       Yeah, we all ... That's what everyone's DVR looks like. (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan11:52

       I got all your Cosmoses in there.

   19. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson11:54

       (laughs) Yeah. So thanks. Thanks for having, having them all in there.

   20. JRJoe Rogan11:58

       Who's that Morgan Freeman show b- uh, The Through The, Through The Wormhole?

   21. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson12:01

       Through The Wormhole. Yeah. We got that-

   22. JRJoe Rogan12:01

       Yeah.

   23. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson12:02

       ... on there too.

   24. JRJoe Rogan12:02

       That was a great show too.

   25. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson12:02

       Well, th- that's, that's, that's a Joe Rogan thing.

   26. JRJoe Rogan12:05

       Yeah.

   27. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson12:05

       If you didn't have that I'd be disappointed in it.

   28. JRJoe Rogan12:07

       (laughs)

   29. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson12:08

       I'd say, "You're an imposter."

   30. JRJoe Rogan12:09

       Well-
6. 15:01 – 22:48

   “Accessory to War”: Columbus, eclipses, and astronomy used for power

   1. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson15:01

      Yeah. And I'm delighted to be a servant of that curiosity. And, um, uh, this, I, I brought this just 'cause ... It's not even out yet. This ... You're airing like now live? This is it? You're live?

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:16

      We're live.

   3. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson15:17

      You are live. Okay, so this-

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:18

      There's like a five-second delay or something.

   5. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson15:20

      (laughs) Five second ... Is that to bleep all my expletives? (laughs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:23

      'Cause the ... Just internet ... No, no, no, no, no, no. What is this Accessory to War?

   7. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson15:27

      Oh, this, this is like another book. I just... This is coming out in three weeks.

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:31

      Is this about space war?

   9. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson15:32

      Accessory to War: The Unspoken Alliance Between Astrophysics and the Military.

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:39

       Oh.

   11. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson15:40

       Yeah, so, so this other book was Astrophysics for People in a Hurry. If you're in a hurry, do not buy this book. (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan15:48

       (laughs)

   13. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson15:48

       This is not for people in a hurry. This is not, this is not what... This is not an impulse item at the checkout line. This is y- you got ... This is, this is all about ... By the way, we know what role the physicist plays in war. The physicist makes the bomb.

   14. JRJoe Rogan16:04

       Mm-hmm.

   15. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson16:04

       Invents the bomb. The chemist perfects napalm. The biologist weaponizes anthrax. And the astrophysicist, well, we sit at the end of a telescope and wait for photons to cross the universe and enter our detector, and we go into conferences and argue about them. So there is no obvious connection between what we do and military strength, hegemony, uh, dominance, empire building. It's just not obvious. That's why the subtitle, The Unspoken Alliance. It's not a secret, it's just, it's not there. It's there, but it's not ... Nobody's talking about it. Do you realize ... I- I'll just give an example, okay? If you needed more reasons to think that Columbus was a dick (laughs) , okay?

   16. JRJoe Rogan16:57

       (laughs)

   17. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson16:57

       Let me add one to it, okay?

   18. JRJoe Rogan16:59

       There's a difference between when we were kids and today.

   19. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson17:01

       (laughs) Yeah, I know, I know, but actually I- I do have something s- mildly redeeming to offer about Columbus if you have the time.

   20. JRJoe Rogan17:09

       Oh, yeah.

   21. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson17:09

       I just wanna ...

   22. JRJoe Rogan17:10

       Okay.

   23. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson17:10

       Okay.

   24. JRJoe Rogan17:11

       We'll start off with that.

   25. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson17:12

       You want me to start off with that?

   26. JRJoe Rogan17:13

       What do ... How do you want to do it? You want to go-

   27. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson17:14

       No, no, I'll do the dick part and then-

   28. JRJoe Rogan17:15

       Do, let's do a dick part first.

   29. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson17:16

       Okay. So on his third voyage, he's in... B- by the time of his third voyage, he had already planted enough Spanish flags that Spain had already begun to set up governments and infrastructures in these places that he had d- uh, um ...

   30. JRJoe Rogan17:31

       Found.
7. 22:48 – 27:18

   From microscopes to telescopes: verification, Galileo, and the first ‘dual-use’ tech

   1. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson22:48

      Okay, fine. Galileo perfects the telescope. He learned that it had just been invented in the Netherlands. The- the Dutch were- were op- opticians, all right? So they invented the telescope and the microscope within a couple of years of one another. This transformed science.

   2. JRJoe Rogan23:04

      When did they invent the eyeglass, the reading glass?

   3. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson23:07

      The reading gl- I... S- earlier than that, but I don't, I don't know when. The- the real advance was putting two lenses in line with one another. Sounds trivial in modern times, but that was a huge leap, conceptual leap, in what you would accomplish. And in so doing, depending on how you curve them and how you grind them, grind the- the shape of those lenses, you would get a microscope or a telescope. And- and we're off to the races. That's basically the birth of modern science as we now think of it, and- and- and- and conduct it. Because you say to yourself, "My sense is I don't trust them to be the full record of what's going on in front of me." You pull out a microscope, oh my gosh, Leeuwenhoek, he got a- a... The microscope guy, he found... He got a- a drop of pond water, puts it under his microscope. Just to think, to do this, it's just water. Why do you think that's something interesting to do? He said, "I wonder." He was curious. He puts it under and sees little, what he described as animalcules, happily a-swimming.

   4. JRJoe Rogan24:07

      Animalcules?

   5. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson24:08

      Animalcules. These are like the m- amoebas and paramecia.

   6. JRJoe Rogan24:12

      Yeah.

   7. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson24:12

      And, oh, oh, it is... And so he writes, he reports on this to- to the, you know, to scientific authorities, and they don't believe him. They say (laughs) , uh, uh, you know, "Van Leeuwenhoek, uh, we think you might have had too much gin before you wrote this letter." (laughs) Why would anyone believe this, that there's entire creatures, an entire universe of creatures thriving in a drop of pond water? And so the way science works is one report does not make it true, you need verification. They sent people to the Netherlands to verify his results, and there it was, the birth of microscopy.And then they looked at everything, cells, you know, the, the, you need vocabulary to describe what you're now seeing. Well, that was the, the, the journey down small, then the journey went up big. And Galileo perfects the telescope. He looks up, he says, "Whoa, I see craters, mountains, valleys on the moon. The sun has spots. Venus goes through phases." This became the corpus of evidence for earth going around the sun in support of Copernicus's idea that earth went around the sun. My point is, what was the second thing he did with his telescope? He telephoned, no, (laughs) he didn't telephone. He contacted the Doge of Venice, invited him to the clock tower, and said, "Look at what this instrument can do for you as we look out into the lagoon. You can identify a ship's intentions, friend or foe, by its flag, ten times farther away than you can with the unaided eye." Venice bought a boatload of these telescopes in the service of their military defense.

   8. JRJoe Rogan25:57

      Hmm.

   9. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson25:58

      And this was a source of money to Galileo, and now he could go look at the universe. This has been a two-way street ever since people have looked up.

   10. JRJoe Rogan26:07

       The-

   11. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson26:07

       So, so this is, this is a, an accounting of that. This is, it's, and, and it, it, it goes on and on. The first X-ray machines for airports. You're old enough to remember. W- why were they put in? Because of hijackings to Cuba, basically. The, they were armed hijackings of airplanes, of American carriers to Cuba. And Congress said, "We gotta do something about that." Oh, by the way, there's a company in Boston called American Science and Engineering that was building an X-ray detector small enough to put on a satellite to observe the universe in X-rays. And because no one had observed, we've used visible light, but not X-ray, that's a branch of the electromagnetic spectrum. We think if there are black holes out there, their region surrounding them will give us X-rays. It's a new window on the universe. And then they said, "Oh, my gosh, there's a call for X-ray machines at airports. We've got the technology that we've perfected to put in a fricking satellite."

   12. JRJoe Rogan27:04

       So the technology for those ones you walk through at the airport initially came out-

   13. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson27:07

       Initially, yes.

   14. JRJoe Rogan27:09

       Wow.

   15. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson27:09

       Yes, yes. There was a two-way street. There was, "Oh my gosh, we need this for security. Oh my God, we would, we, we're using ... Let's, let's, let's apply that technology to these detectors."

8. 27:18 – 33:15

   Space tech spinoffs and why NASA’s budget is smaller than people think

   1. JRJoe Rogan27:18

      Well, that's been a lot of the stuff with the space program, right? A lot of the stuff that they devised for use on the Space Station and some, many other technologies have trickled their way down into regular society.

   2. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson27:27

      Well, that, that always happens, and even some simple things, 'cause people say, "Why spend money up there and we should be spending it down here?" But there's interesting fact here that is almost never discussed. The people who st- who think about the universe and study the universe are hugely creative. And their creative energies cannot be pre-prescribed. You can't go to a create... Uh, you might, but I don't know that you'll get their maximum creativity. Say, "I need you to invent a cure for cancer right now. Use that brilliance." "I'll try." But the greatest discoveries, the greatest cures, the greatest of these comes from a cross-pollination of interest that people have that, where they were engaged because they were interest, interested just for the sake of being interested. So watch what ha- here's an example. The space shuttle, it, it's, it's a glider when it lands, okay? It's got no engines. It's got flaps. There's a little bit of brakes in the tires. But that's about it. When it comes in, okay, how do you make sure the thing d- stays on track? Because they kept drifting in crosswinds and this sort of thing, and so they said, "Why don't we groove the road so that the rubber on the road, the, the, the runway, so that the rubber can align with the grooves and stay in a straight line?" 'Cause rubber doesn't slide well when you have g- doesn't slide sideways very easily on grooves. When they realized how effective that was, it's now put on off-ramps to freeways. If there's a freeway off-ramp that's a little tight, not quite banked well enough, it's gonna be grooved. Check it out next time. And you could say, "Well, okay, that's pretty simple, low-tech solution. Why didn't, why, why couldn't we just discover that on our own without the $20 billion a year space agency called NASA?" But you didn't.

   3. JRJoe Rogan29:16

      (laughs)

   4. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson29:17

      You didn't. Power tools, cordless, high-torque power tools were invented to service satellites in orbit by NASA, because you can't just plug it into a 120-volt socket when you're floating in space. So the engineers said, "How are we gonna solve this problem? Let's make a high-torque power tool." So now, NASA invents the high-t- Now, that is the only way you're buying a power tool today, is the, is the cordless variety. All construction sites, they're not looking for a power outlet for these things. So why didn't we invent this without the $20 billion space program? You didn't. You weren't, you didn't think about it. You said, "Oh, I can plug it in. This is great." You're not even thinking what you need. So yes, there are all of these applications, but, but I don't th- That's a good reason to do it, but I don't think it's the best re- The best reasons are, my gosh, don't you wanna keep dreaming? Don't you wanna keep looking into the future?

   5. JRJoe Rogan30:17

      That would be ideal, but that's not attractive to people that are spending tax dollars. When it comes to tax dollars, people get super pragmatic and they go, "Why do we need to go to Mars? No, what we need to do is take care of this and pay for that, and w- with the deficit and the budget, and..."

   6. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson30:33

      You know, so, you know, NASA's budget today is 4/10 of 1% of the federal budget. So if you take a dollar-

   7. JRJoe Rogan30:43

      4/10 of 1%?

   8. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson30:44

      I, I, I will quantify it for you. Take, take a, a, a dollar bill and imagine that's your tax dollar, and you can like cut it to whatever percent you want. So let's cut 4/10 of 1% off of the edge.That doesn't get you into the ink. You're still in the-

   9. JRJoe Rogan31:00

      The white area.

   10. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson31:00

       ... the white border around it.

   11. JRJoe Rogan31:02

       Yeah.

   12. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson31:02

       Right?

   13. JRJoe Rogan31:02

       No one would even notice-

   14. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson31:03

       You wouldn't e-

   15. JRJoe Rogan31:03

       ... they took that dollar.

   16. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson31:03

       (laughs) You wouldn't, you could trim that off the dollar-

   17. JRJoe Rogan31:06

       And pay for anything.

   18. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson31:06

       ... and pay for... So my point is, most of the people who say, "Don't spend it here, spend it there," they think NASA has more budget than it actually does.

   19. JRJoe Rogan31:17

       Hmm.

   20. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson31:18

       They just, they, they're... If you ask them, "How much do you think you're getting?" "Oh, 10%, 5%." You know, "Several percent." No, it's one half of 1%. So if you're gonna tell me that if you can take that four tenths of 1% and spend it in these other problems and solve them, I would say, "Yeah, go right ahead." But is this, is this where you really wanna pull the money from? When it's the only thing that has us thinking about tomorrow, that has us thinking about a future.

   21. JRJoe Rogan31:45

       Well, for a guy like you, that's super important. But for a guy who lives in Cleveland, who doesn't give a shit about science-

   22. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson31:51

       Oh, oh, excuse me, that's like the person who says, "Okay, I don't need the space program. Uh, why do I need the space program? I have my cell phone-"

   23. JRJoe Rogan31:59

       (laughs)

   24. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson31:59

       "... and I have The Weather Channel and I'd know anything I need." (laughs) You know, this is... (laughs)

   25. JRJoe Rogan32:04

       Yeah.

   26. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson32:06

       You're using GPS satellites to understand where you are on this earth, to, to understand where grandma's house is-

   27. JRJoe Rogan32:12

       Do you know who created it?

   28. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson32:12

       ... when you pull up the... Who created what?

   29. JRJoe Rogan32:14

       Who created spread spectrum technology that led to GPS and wifi?

   30. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson32:18

       Uh, who is that?
9. 33:15 – 40:29

   Quantum entanglement, ‘observation’ as measurement, and why basic research pays off

   1. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson33:15

      That's... By the way, the future of this might, might come from... It's not, it's still not clear. The jury's still out and there's sort of opposing views on this, but you know, you've heard about quantum entangled particles.

   2. JRJoe Rogan33:26

      Yes.

   3. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson33:26

      Where I can create a pair of particles that know about one another, and now they're separated in space and in time. And if you observe that other particle, it instantly changes the state of the particle back, the other particle that's back where I am. And by the way, that, they communicate instantaneously, faster than the speed of light.

   4. JRJoe Rogan33:47

      When you say if you observe, d- do you mean that if you observe it with a-

   5. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson33:52

      Anything, doesn't matter.

   6. JRJoe Rogan33:53

      But you have to do something to observe it with.

   7. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson33:54

      Yeah, you have to do, you have to d- Yes.

   8. JRJoe Rogan33:56

      So something has to interact with it, it's not woo.

   9. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson33:58

      Inter- No, it's not... (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan33:59

       But people think-

   11. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson33:59

       It is so not woo.

   12. JRJoe Rogan34:00

       But people, but you say that, people go, "Yeah, I f- I saw that in The Secret."

   13. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson34:04

       Yeah, so the problem is the word observe-

   14. JRJoe Rogan34:06

       Right.

   15. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson34:06

       ... people thinks is a, is a psychological thing, but in physics, it's got nothing to do with-

   16. JRJoe Rogan34:10

       It's a measurement thing.

   17. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson34:11

       It's a measurement thing.

   18. JRJoe Rogan34:12

       Right.

   19. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson34:13

       And so in other words if all the l-

   20. JRJoe Rogan34:14

       The act of measuring.

   21. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson34:14

       If there's a, if there is an electron sitting in the middle of this table and all the lights are out, I can say, "I think there's an electron here. Let me find out." And the moment I turn on the lights, the light interacts, a photon interacts with the electron and kicks it somewhere else. So the more I try to measure its position, the less I know its position.

   22. JRJoe Rogan34:33

       Hmm.

   23. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson34:34

       So because you need to... The measurement requires an interaction with it. And on, on, in the quantum scale, interactions change the state of the experiment that you're conducting. We know this, we've quantified it, we, we don't like it, but we deal with it. And in the act of dealing with it, you can exploit that fact for other purposes. We exploit quantum craziness to birth the induc- the, the information technology revolution. There is no creation, storage, or retrieval of information without an exploitation of the quantum. So, and by the way, the quantum was discovered in, quantum physics as a branch of physics, was discovered in the 1920s. If you were around back then and your tax buddies who don't like paying taxes, you, what would you have said? "Why are you spending government money pro-

   24. JRJoe Rogan35:23

       On voodoo.

   25. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson35:23

       ... on, on, on, on the atom and on molecules, like you can't even see them? What good is it? Oh, I, I'm a woodworker, I just care about my wood atoms, right? Here I am..." Yeah, yeah, shove that where your, where your tax dollar is. And so it would look like you're wasting your own time and everybody else's money. It would take decades, five decades, four or five decades before we'd realize what role that would play in computing, this creation, storage, and retrieval of information. And by some measures, it's a third of the world's GDP is traceable to what quantum physics does for us on a computing scale.

   26. JRJoe Rogan36:01

       Oh, sorry.

   27. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson36:02

       So, so anyone... Yes. Yes, well, I mean, you, there, there are ways to do it. There's certain industries that would still be there without computing, but they're made more efficient with it. Okay, so UPS tracks all of their trucks with GPS and with computing devices that invokes qu- the quantum. But UPS predates the use of this, these tools. But you can look at profits relative to their efficiencies that are enabled by these technologies, as well as entire fields that didn't exist before computing. You add all that up, it's a stunning fact. And, uh, so my only point is that you, if you want today to say, "Why study this when we have these other problems?" Well, all I do, a- all I do is take you back to the cave and let's say, all right, we're in a cave. And there's a mountain over there and a valley and I tell you, I tell the tr- the, the ca- uh, the, the, I, I tell the tribe, um, leaders, "I wanna explore that mountain in that valley.""No, we can't afford to send you out there now. We have to solve the cave problems first before anyone leaves the cave." We laugh at that. That's an absurd claim to make in caveman days. I don't know if anyone did it, but that's a crazy thought because there are solutions to your problems that might exist and time has demonstrated, likely exist by leaving the cave that you can then discover. So for me, exploration is not just space. All the frontiers of the unknown. Biology, chemistry, AI, ex- you know those frontiers and then you can cross-pollinate them and transform civilization. And then, the last example I give and then I'll shut up 'cause I wanna hear you talk too. (laughs)

   28. JRJoe Rogan37:45

       (laughs)

   29. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson37:45

       It's not for me. It's, I don't, I got, I don't... Yeah, s- I wanna hear you interact with what I'm telling. Here, here's one. You ready?

   30. JRJoe Rogan37:52

       Okay. (laughs)
10. 40:29 – 45:48

    Microwaves, MRIs, and the accidental pathway from physics to medicine

    1. JRJoe Rogan40:29

       Yeah, but everybody's scared that it fucks up the food.

    2. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson40:32

       Well-

    3. JRJoe Rogan40:32

       Does it?

    4. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson40:33

       No. It's just, it just heats the water and-

    5. JRJoe Rogan40:35

       People get scared. The woo-woo people do.

    6. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson40:37

       Okay, so here's the thing. There are certain foods that don't respond well-

    7. JRJoe Rogan40:40

       Mm-hmm.

    8. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson40:40

       ... to the flipping of the water molecule and one of them is like bread products.

    9. JRJoe Rogan40:44

       Gets hard.

    10. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson40:45

        Yeah, i- it gets chewy and leathery.

    11. JRJoe Rogan40:47

        Yeah.

    12. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson40:47

        And-

    13. JRJoe Rogan40:47

        But only if you like overdo it.

    14. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson40:49

        Yeah, if you overdo, you gotta do it just right and you're still good. If you overdo it, it can get le- that's kind of it. I'm trying to think. You wouldn't grill a steak in a microwave. You would heat up the meat uniformly.

    15. JRJoe Rogan40:58

        Yeah.

    16. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson40:58

        And that's, that's all it would do. Uh, it cooks bacon pretty fast.

    17. JRJoe Rogan41:02

        Yeah.

    18. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson41:02

        Um, but it's a mess and it splatters all over. So you pick the foods that are best for that situation as you would pick the foods best... You wouldn't, you wouldn't put toast in an oven at 350 degrees t- bread to make toast. We have toasters for that.

    19. JRJoe Rogan41:17

        Right.

    20. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson41:17

        And so different things in your kitchen do things best. You wouldn't make ice cream in your, you know, in your s- in your toaster oven.

    21. JRJoe Rogan41:25

        But people are afraid of microwaves, the one thing that they're afraid of is-

    22. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson41:28

        It's not, it's not that they're afraid of microwaves.

    23. JRJoe Rogan41:30

        ... is, is ignorance.

    24. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson41:30

        That they're afraid that, of things they don't understand.

    25. JRJoe Rogan41:32

        Yes.

    26. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson41:32

        That's your point.

    27. JRJoe Rogan41:33

        Yeah.

    28. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson41:33

        Precisely.

    29. JRJoe Rogan41:34

        They're, they're afraid that something's gonna happen to their food that makes it less good.

    30. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson41:38

        Correct. And it's just, it's, it's not, the not knowing that people fear.
11. 45:48 – 54:36

    Objective, personal, and political ‘truths’—and why Neil avoids the atheist label

    1. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson45:48

       No, I don't, but that's, uh, what I do know, let, let me share a couple of things with you that I've thought deeply about recently. There are three kinds of truths in the world.

    2. JRJoe Rogan45:59

       Oh.

    3. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson45:59

       Okay? Because we're in like a-

    4. JRJoe Rogan46:01

       Three?

    5. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson46:01

       Let me give, I'll give you three. Okay?

    6. JRJoe Rogan46:03

       The Rudy Giuliani kind?

    7. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson46:05

       Yeah, well... (laughs)

    8. JRJoe Rogan46:07

       Because-

    9. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson46:08

       Okay, so you ready?

    10. JRJoe Rogan46:09

        ... apparently true isn't always true.

    11. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson46:10

        I know. So let me try to-

    12. JRJoe Rogan46:11

        Okay.

    13. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson46:11

        ... unpack that.

    14. JRJoe Rogan46:12

        Okay.

    15. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson46:12

        All right, you ready? Okay.

    16. JRJoe Rogan46:14

        Alternative facts?

    17. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson46:14

        I, there's something called an objective truth. An objective truth is something that is true whether or not you believe in it, and the methods and tools of science are uniquely conceived to seek out and establish objective truths. And this, I'm in, referring to the invocation of the scientific method. No one scientific result, result, research result is true until it is verified by other peoples' research results using a different experimental method, with different wall current from another country. W- when your competitor says, "I think you're wrong, let me show how you're wrong." And they re- reproduce your experiment and get the same result. When you have generally the same results emerging, that is a newly discovered objective truth about the natural world. And when you have objective truths, they're not later shown to be false.

    18. JRJoe Rogan47:08

        Hmm.

    19. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson47:08

        That's an objective truth. Then you have personal truths. These are truths that you hold dearly. Jesus is your savior, Mohammed is the final prophet on Earth. You, you know, uh, Abraham is your, th- these are your personal truths. There's a heaven you're going to. No one is gonna take that from you, not in a free country where freedom of expression and speech and religion is protected.

    20. JRJoe Rogan47:32

        Mm-hmm.

    21. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson47:33

        That's a personal truth. The problem here is, you can't convince someone else of your personal truth without some act of persuasion, and in the limit, an act of violence.

    22. JRJoe Rogan47:46

        Hmm.

    23. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson47:47

        Okay?

    24. JRJoe Rogan47:47

        In the limit.

    25. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson47:48

        In the limit. This is how you get holy wars. So I have this personal truth and I require that you share my personal truth.

    26. JRJoe Rogan47:56

        But why is that a personal truth-

    27. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson47:57

        That's a recipe for disaster.

    28. JRJoe Rogan47:58

        ... and not a belief?

    29. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson47:59

        Because the people who hold the belief will tell you that it's a truth, so I don't want to take that usage of the word away from them.

    30. JRJoe Rogan48:06

        Okay, so you're giving them the definition.
12. 54:36 – 1:02:22

    Calendars, BCE/CE, and the physics behind leap years (and no year zero)

    1. JRJoe Rogan54:36

       You don't use BCE?

    2. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson54:37

       I don't use BCE.

    3. JRJoe Rogan54:38

       Hmm.

    4. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson54:39

       All right? Well, see, even you c- copping a 'tude right there, right? Hmm.

    5. JRJoe Rogan54:42

       Interesting.

    6. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson54:43

       Hmm. I saw your face. You got the camera?

    7. JRJoe Rogan54:45

       No, I just said interesting.

    8. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson54:46

       Do you see a face? (laughs)

    9. JRJoe Rogan54:46

       I just said interesting. It's interesting.

    10. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson54:48

        No, I'll tell you why.

    11. JRJoe Rogan54:49

        Okay.

    12. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson54:49

        Okay, first of all-

    13. JRJoe Rogan54:50

        Doesn't make any sense.

    14. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson54:51

        ... BCE was-

    15. JRJoe Rogan54:52

        This is not current era 2,000 years ago.

    16. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson54:54

        I'm gonna tell you. So BCE, as you know, stands for before common era.

    17. JRJoe Rogan54:57

        Right.

    18. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson54:58

        And CE stands for common era. So this is de-religiousifying AD and B- and BC.

    19. JRJoe Rogan55:05

        Right.

    20. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson55:05

        Okay? Yet, of course, they reference the same calendar.

    21. JRJoe Rogan55:08

        Right.

    22. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson55:09

        Okay? Well, who invented the calendar we all currently use in modern society? It's called the Gregorian calendar. It was invented by the Catholic Church, by Jesuit priests in the 1580s, assigned by Pope Gregory to fix the problems in the calendar because... I'm sorry I'm screaming at you here. You got me started.

    23. JRJoe Rogan55:25

        Okay, scream. Get crazy.

    24. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson55:26

        I gotta calm down.

    25. JRJoe Rogan55:27

        I'll bring you coffee.

    26. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson55:30

        (sighs) (laughs) The Julian calendar, put forth in ancient Rome-... had one modification to previous calendars. It had a leap day, okay? It had a leap day. And okay, a leap day is how often? Every four years. This was good 'cause what are we trying to track? We're trying to, t- the Earth goes around the sun and so we say, "All right, how long does that take?" Well, it takes a year. But it turns out, we're not actually tracking how long it takes Earth to go around the sun, we're h- tracking how long it takes Earth to repeat its seasons. And the repeat, the year that corresponds to our seasons is slightly different from the year that corresponds to how long it takes to go around the sun. Slightly different. And that difference was not recognized in the early calendars, and that difference accumulated so that by the year 1584, the vernal equinox, the first day of spring did not occur on March 21st, it occurred on March 10th. It shifted from the calendar date. That's what happens if you don't match the cycles of things and the Pope said, "We're not having any of this, especially since Easter might land on Passover and we're trying to distinguish ourselves mightily from the Jews, so let's fix this." The Jesuit priests got to study this. They looked at the cycles of the heavens, the sun, the moon, the stars, and they came up with a new calendar, the Gregorian calendar, a modification to the Julian calendar. You know what they had to do? To invoke it, they had to take ten days out of the calendar to r- to jumpstart, to put, uh, the first day of spring back on March 21st. And this happened in October 1584.

    27. JRJoe Rogan57:15

        Why has there been-

    28. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson57:15

        It took ten days out of the calendar.

    29. JRJoe Rogan57:17

        ... does this-

    30. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson57:17

        So now how much rent do you pay? They had to, like, invent amortized rent. (laughs)
13. 1:02:22 – 1:23:52

    Ancient ‘lost knowledge,’ Stonehenge as an observatory, and Manhattanhenge

    1. JRJoe Rogan1:02:22

       People love old shit though.

    2. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:02:23

       They do and they wanna believe that-

    3. JRJoe Rogan1:02:24

       Especially-

    4. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:02:25

       ... people who, you know, uh, they wanna believe that people 5,000 years ago somehow knew more about the universe than we do today.

    5. JRJoe Rogan1:02:31

       Yeah.

    6. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:02:32

       Just, no.

    7. JRJoe Rogan1:02:33

       Why is that? Why do they wanna believe that?

    8. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:02:35

       I think... Uh, uh, I don't know. For me, uh, that's one of the great puzzles of li- of life. Why do people want to believe that the Egyptians somehow had some access to the universe?

    9. JRJoe Rogan1:02:47

       Well, they knew something.

    10. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:02:48

        The, they did. Of course.

    11. JRJoe Rogan1:02:49

        They definitely knew how-

    12. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:02:50

        Of-

    13. JRJoe Rogan1:02:50

        ... to build some incredible shit.

    14. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:02:51

        Of course.

    15. JRJoe Rogan1:02:52

        Right? But that, that alone-

    16. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:02:54

        Of course. I don't wanna take that away from them.

    17. JRJoe Rogan1:02:56

        Doesn't the physical, just the presence of these incredible buildings leave the possibility that maybe they had some knowledge that we lost?

    18. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:03:06

        Lost knowledge is a real thing.

    19. JRJoe Rogan1:03:07

        Yeah.

    20. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:03:08

        And, uh, uh, I don't wanna belittle or diminish the significance of real knowledge. We forgot how to draw in perspective, you know, from ancient times. Had to be rediscovered in the, a- as I understand from the artists, had to be rediscovered in the Renaissance. Uh, the archway, the, the Roman arch had to sort of be rediscovered, okay? So yes, yes, you can lose knowledge. But if you look at the knowledge we have gleaned using the methods and t- modern methods and tools of science that go far beyond our five senses and our access to the world, to say that somehow they knew something that we don't using our tools, that's just false. Sorry.

    21. JRJoe Rogan1:03:47

        Mm-hmm.

    22. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:03:48

        That's just, it's just, th- there's, that's not possible.

    23. JRJoe Rogan1:03:51

        But-

    24. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:03:52

        We know the physiological limits of your ability to know what's going on around you.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:03:56

        Right.

    26. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:03:56

        And the people that say, "Oh, I have a sixth sense." Fine.

    27. JRJoe Rogan1:04:00

        (laughs)

    28. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:04:00

        But as a scientist, I have dozens of senses.

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:04:02

        Right.

    30. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:04:03

        Okay? I can measure things that your five senses can't. I can measure the magnetic field around you, the electromagnetic field, how much microwaves are coursing through your body now. We have no sensors for this.

Episode duration: 3:21:08