Joe Rogan Experience #1169 - Elon Musk

1. 0:00 – 4:11

   Boring Company flamethrower: Spaceballs joke turned viral product

   1. EMElon Musk0:00

      Ah.

   2. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      Ha, ha, ha. (coughs) Four, three, two, one. (claps) Boom. Thank you. Thanks for doing this, man. Really appreciate it.

   3. EMElon Musk0:09

      Yeah, you're welcome.

   4. JRJoe Rogan0:10

      It's very good to meet you.

   5. EMElon Musk0:11

      It's nice- nice to meet you too.

   6. JRJoe Rogan0:12

      And thanks for not lighting this place on fire.

   7. EMElon Musk0:13

      You're welcome.

   8. JRJoe Rogan0:15

      (laughs) How does-

   9. EMElon Musk0:15

      That's coming later.

   10. JRJoe Rogan0:16

       How does one, um, just in the middle of doing all the things you do, uh, create cars, uh, rockets, all this stuff you're doing, constantly innovating, decide to just make a flamethrower? Where do you have the time for that?

   11. EMElon Musk0:31

       Well, the flame... I didn't put, we didn't put a lot of time into the flamethrower.

   12. JRJoe Rogan0:34

       (laughs)

   13. EMElon Musk0:35

       The... (laughs) This was an off-the-cuff thing and, um, so we have... I have this sort- sort of like... It's sort of a, sort of a hobby company called The Boring Company, uh, which started out as a joke. Uh, and we decided to make it real, um, and- and dig a tunnel under LA, and then dig... Then people, other people asked us to dig tunnels and so we said yes in a few cases.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:02

       (laughs) Now, who-

   15. EMElon Musk1:02

       Um, and then- and then we have a merchandise section that only has one piece of merchandise at a time. And we started off with a cap and there was only one thing on... It was just boringcompany.com/cap or hat. That's it. It... And- and then we- we sold the hats. Limited- limited edition. It just said The Boring Company. And then I'm a big fan of Space Balls, the movie, and in Space Balls, Yogurt, um, goes through the merchandising section and they have a flamethrower-

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:37

       (laughs)

   17. EMElon Musk1:37

       ... in the merchandising section of Space Balls. And he... Like, the kids love that one. Uh, that's the line, uh, when he pulls out the flamethrower. He's like, "We should do a flamethrower." So we...

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:52

       Does anybody tell you no? Does anybody go, "Elon, um, maybe for yourself, but selling a flamethrower? The liabilities? All the people you're selling this device to? What kind of unhinged people are gonna be buying a flamethrower in the first place? Do we really wanna connect ourselves to all these potential arsonists?"

   19. EMElon Musk2:12

       Yeah, it's a terrible idea.

   20. JRJoe Rogan2:13

       (laughs)

   21. EMElon Musk2:13

       Terrible. You shouldn't buy one.

   22. JRJoe Rogan2:15

       (laughs)

   23. EMElon Musk2:15

       I don't... I said, "Don't buy this flamethrower. Don't buy it."

   24. JRJoe Rogan2:18

       (laughs)

   25. EMElon Musk2:19

       "Don't buy it." That's what I said. Uh, but still people bought it.

   26. JRJoe Rogan2:22

       Yeah, they're not gonna listen.

   27. EMElon Musk2:23

       There's nothing I can do to stop them.

   28. JRJoe Rogan2:24

       It's... You build it, they will come.

   29. EMElon Musk2:26

       I did not stop them.

   30. JRJoe Rogan2:26

       (laughs)
2. 4:11 – 5:27

   Fixing LA traffic by going underground: why tunnels might work

   1. JRJoe Rogan4:11

      But you do so many different things. Forget about the flamethrower. Like, how do you do all that other shit? Like, how do you- how do you- how does one decide to fix LA traffic by drilling holes in the ground, and who do you even approach with that? Like, when you have this idea, who do you talk to about that?

   2. EMElon Musk4:27

      I mean, I'm not saying it's gonna be successful or so... You know? I'm not... It's just like asserting that it's gonna be successful. But so far... I've lived in LA for s- 16 years and the traffic has always been terrible. Um, and so I don't see any other, like, ideas for improving the traffic. Um, so in desperation, we're going to dig a tunnel, and maybe that tunnel will be successful and maybe it won't.

   3. JRJoe Rogan4:59

      I'm- I'm listening.

   4. EMElon Musk5:01

      Yeah. I'm not trying to convince you it's gonna work.

   5. JRJoe Rogan5:04

      And are the people that-

   6. EMElon Musk5:05

      I mean, or anyone. But-

   7. JRJoe Rogan5:06

      But you're- you're starting this though. This is actually a project you're starting to implement, right?

   8. EMElon Musk5:11

      Yeah, yeah. No, we've- we've dug, um, about a mile. It's quite long. It takes a long time to walk it.

   9. JRJoe Rogan5:17

      Yeah. Now, when you're doing this, what- what is the ultimate plan? The ultimate plan is to have these in major cities and anywhere there's mass congestion, and just try it out in LA first?

3. 5:27 – 9:49

   Earthquakes, tunnel engineering, and the reality of getting permits

   1. EMElon Musk5:27

      Yeah. It- it's- it's in LA because, uh, I mostly live in LA. That's the reason. It's a terrible place to dig tunnels. This is, uh, one of the worst places to dig tunnels because the- there's... Mostly because of the paperwork. People think it's like, "What about seismic?" It's like, actually earth- tunnels are very safe in earthquakes.

   2. JRJoe Rogan5:45

      Why is that?

   3. EMElon Musk5:47

      Earthquakes are... Earthquakes are essentially a surface phenomenon. It's like- it's like waves on the ocean. So if- if you've... If there's a storm, you wanna be on the... On... In a submarine.

   4. JRJoe Rogan5:58

      Mm-hmm.

   5. EMElon Musk5:59

      So being in a tunnel is like being in a submarine. Now, the way the tunnel is constructed is it's constructed out of these interlocking segments, kind of like a snake.Um, it's sort of like a snake exoskeleton, uh, with, uh, double seals. And so e- even when the ground moves, the- it's able to m- the tunnel actually is able to shift along with the ground, li- like an underground snake. And it doesn't crack or break or, or ... and, and, and it's extremely unlikely that both seals would be broken. And it's, it's, it's capable of taking five atmospheres of pressure. It's waterproof, methane-proof, well, gas-proof of any kind, and, uh, meets all California seismic requirements.

   6. JRJoe Rogan6:46

      So when you have this idea, who do you bring this to?

   7. EMElon Musk6:50

      W- I'm not sure what you mean by that.

   8. JRJoe Rogan6:51

      Well, when you ... you're, you're implementing it, so you're digging holes in the ground.

   9. EMElon Musk6:54

      Yes.

   10. JRJoe Rogan6:54

       Like, you have to bring it to someone that lets you do it.

   11. EMElon Musk6:58

       Yeah, so, um, there were, there were some engineers from SpaceX, um, who were ... who thought it would be cool to do this. Uh, and the guy who runs it, like, day to day, Steve Davis, he's a long-time SpaceX engineer. He's great. Um, so Steve was like, "I'd like to help make this happen." I was like, "Cool." Um, so we started off with digging a hole in the ground. Just got like, a permit for a pit, big pit, and just dug a big pit.

   12. JRJoe Rogan7:34

       And do you have to tell them what the pit's for? Or are you just, uh, "Hey, we just wanna dig a hole."

   13. EMElon Musk7:38

       No, you just fill out this form.

   14. JRJoe Rogan7:40

       (coughs) (laughs)

   15. EMElon Musk7:41

       And-

   16. JRJoe Rogan7:41

       That's it?

   17. EMElon Musk7:43

       Yeah. It was a pit in our parking lot.

   18. JRJoe Rogan7:45

       And ... But do you have to give them some sort of a blueprint for your ultimate idea? And do they have to approve it? Like, how does that work?

   19. EMElon Musk7:51

       No, we just started off with a pit.

   20. JRJoe Rogan7:53

       Okay.

   21. EMElon Musk7:53

       A big pit. And, um, uh, you don't ... because not really, you know ... They don't really care about the existential nature of a pit. You just say, like, "I want a pit."

   22. JRJoe Rogan8:03

       Right.

   23. EMElon Musk8:04

       You know? And, uh, it's a hole in the ground. So then we got the permit for the pit, and we dug the pit. And we dug it in, like, I don't know, three days, two, three days. Actually, I think two- 48 hours, something like that, um, 'cause, uh, Erik Garcetti was coming by for the hype to ... He was gonna attend the Hyperloop competition, uh, which is like a student competition we have for, uh, who can make the fastest pod in the hyperloop. And, uh, he was coming ... This was ge- ... The finals were gonna be on Sunday afternoon, and so, uh, Erik was coming by on Sunday afternoon. He was like, "You know, we should dig this pit and then, like, show Erik." Uh, so we ... This was like Friday morning. And then, yeah, so it was about a little over 40 hours, uh, 40 hours later, we'd dug the pit. It was like we're in 24/7. No, 24, four- 48 straight hours, something like that. And dug this big pit, and, and, and we're like ... Showed Erik the pit. He's like, "Obviously, it's just a pit." (laughs)

   24. JRJoe Rogan9:04

       (laughs)

   25. EMElon Musk9:06

       But hey, it's ... A hole in the ground's better than no hole in the ground.

   26. JRJoe Rogan9:09

       And what do you tell him about this pit? I mean-

   27. EMElon Musk9:11

       You just said it was starting-

   28. JRJoe Rogan9:11

       ... you say this is the beginning of this idea-

   29. EMElon Musk9:13

       Yes.

   30. JRJoe Rogan9:13

       ... where we're gonna build tunnels under LA to help funnel traffic better, and they're go-
4. 9:49 – 11:56

   How Elon actually spends his time: engineering over “business magnate”

   1. EMElon Musk9:49

      I got a million ideas.

   2. JRJoe Rogan9:50

      I'm sure you do.

   3. EMElon Musk9:51

      There's no shortage of that. Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan9:54

      I just don't know how you manage your time. I don't understand it. It doesn't seem ... It doesn't even seem humanly possible.

   5. EMElon Musk10:00

      You know, I, I do basically ... I think people, like, don't totally understand what I do with my time. They think, like, I'm a business guy or something like that. Um, like my Wikipedia page says business magnate.

   6. JRJoe Rogan10:14

      What would you call yourself?

   7. EMElon Musk10:16

      A business magnet. (laughs)

   8. JRJoe Rogan10:18

      (laughs)

   9. EMElon Musk10:18

      Can someone please change my Wikipedia page to magnet?

   10. JRJoe Rogan10:20

       They'll change it right now.

   11. EMElon Musk10:21

       Change it to ... Please change it to-

   12. JRJoe Rogan10:22

       It's probably already changed.

   13. EMElon Musk10:23

       It's locked, so somebody has to be-

   14. JRJoe Rogan10:24

       Oh.

   15. EMElon Musk10:24

       ... able to unlock it and change it to magnet.

   16. JRJoe Rogan10:26

       Someone will get that.

   17. EMElon Musk10:26

       I want to be a magnet. (laughs) Um, no, I, I, I do engineering and, you know, and manufacturing and that kind of thing. That's like 80% m- more of my time.

   18. JRJoe Rogan10:37

       Ideas and then the implementation of those ideas.

   19. EMElon Musk10:40

       That's like hardcore engineering, like-

   20. JRJoe Rogan10:42

       Yeah.

   21. EMElon Musk10:43

       ... designing things, you know?

   22. JRJoe Rogan10:44

       Right.

   23. EMElon Musk10:47

       Structural, mechanical, electrical, software, uh, user interface, engineering, aerospace engineering.

   24. JRJoe Rogan10:56

       But you must understand there's not a whole lot of human beings like you. You know that, right? So you're an oddity-

   25. EMElon Musk11:01

       It seems ... Yes.

   26. JRJoe Rogan11:03

       ... to chimps like me.

   27. EMElon Musk11:05

       We're all chimps.

   28. JRJoe Rogan11:06

       Yeah, we are, but-

   29. EMElon Musk11:06

       We're one notch, one notch above a chimp.

   30. JRJoe Rogan11:08

       Some of us are a little bit more confused. When I watch you doing all these things, I'm like, "How does this motherfucker have all this time and all this energy and all these ideas, and then people just let him do these things?"
5. 11:56 – 24:08

   AI anxiety and fatalism: why regulation can’t keep up

   1. EMElon Musk11:56

      Not bad for a human, but, uh, I think ... We will not be able to hold a candle to AI.

   2. JRJoe Rogan12:04

      Mm. You scare the shit out of me when you talk about AI, between you and Sam Harris.

   3. EMElon Musk12:09

      Oh, sure.

   4. JRJoe Rogan12:09

      I didn't even consider it until ... I had a podcast with Sam once, and-

   5. EMElon Musk12:12

      That was great.

   6. JRJoe Rogan12:13

      ... he made me shit my pants.I, uh ...

   7. EMElon Musk12:15

      (laughs)

   8. JRJoe Rogan12:15

      Talking about AI, I, I realize like, oh, well this is a genie that once it's out of the bottle, you're never getting it back in.

   9. EMElon Musk12:22

      That's true.

   10. JRJoe Rogan12:23

       There was a video that you tweeted about one of those Boston dynamic robots.

   11. EMElon Musk12:29

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan12:29

       And you were like, "In the future it'll be moving so fast you can't see it without a strobe light."

   13. EMElon Musk12:35

       Yeah. You could probably do that right now.

   14. JRJoe Rogan12:38

       And no one's really, uh, paying attention too much, other than people like you or people that are really obsessed with technology. All these things in- are happening and these robots are ... And did you see the one where it- P- PETA, uh, put out a statement that you shouldn't kick robots?

   15. EMElon Musk12:52

       It's probably not wise.

   16. JRJoe Rogan12:54

       (laughs)

   17. EMElon Musk12:54

       (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan12:55

       For retribution.

   19. EMElon Musk12:56

       Their, their memory's pretty good.

   20. JRJoe Rogan12:58

       I bet it's really good.

   21. EMElon Musk12:59

       It's really good.

   22. JRJoe Rogan13:00

       I bet it is.

   23. EMElon Musk13:00

       Yes.

   24. JRJoe Rogan13:01

       And getting better every day.

   25. EMElon Musk13:02

       It's really good. (laughs)

   26. JRJoe Rogan13:03

       Are you honestly legitimately concerned about this? Are you ... Is like AI one of your main worries in regards to the future?

   27. EMElon Musk13:16

       It ... Yes, it, it's less of a worry than it used to be, uh, mostly due to taking more of a fatalistic attitude.

   28. JRJoe Rogan13:25

       Hmm. So you used to have more hope, and you gave up some of it, and now you don't worry as much about AI. You're like, "This is just what it is."

   29. EMElon Musk13:39

       Yeah, pretty much.

   30. JRJoe Rogan13:40

       Hmm.
6. 24:08 – 38:02

   Neuralink and merging with AI: solving the bandwidth problem

   1. JRJoe Rogan24:08

      Do you think that it's likely that we will merge somehow or another with this sort of technology and it'll augment what we are now? Or do you think it will s- replace us?

   2. EMElon Musk24:24

      Well, that's the scenario... The, the, the emerge scenario with AI is the one that seems like probably the best, like if-

   3. JRJoe Rogan24:33

      For us.

   4. EMElon Musk24:34

      Yes. Like if you, if you can't beat it, join it.

   5. JRJoe Rogan24:39

      (laughs)

   6. EMElon Musk24:39

      That's... (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan24:40

      (laughs) Yeah.

   8. EMElon Musk24:41

      You know. Um, so from a long-term existential standpoint, that's like the purpose of Neuralink, is to create a high bandwidth interface to the brain such that we can be symbiotic with AI 'cause we have a bandwidth problem. You just can't communicate through your fingers, it's too slow.

   9. JRJoe Rogan25:08

      And where's Neuralink at right now?

   10. EMElon Musk25:13

       I think we'll have something interesting to announce in a few months. That's at least an order of magnitude better than anything else. Probably, I think better than probably if you... anyone thinks is possible.

   11. JRJoe Rogan25:23

       How much can you talk about that right now?

   12. EMElon Musk25:25

       I don't wanna jump the gun on that. Um-

   13. JRJoe Rogan25:28

       But what's like the ultimate... What's, what's, what's the idea behind it? Like what are you trying to accomplish with it? Like what would you like best case scenario?

   14. EMElon Musk25:37

       I think best case scenario, we effectively emerge with AI, uh, where we... AI serves as a tertiary cognition layer, uh, where we've got the limbic system, um, kind of the, you know, primitive brain essentially. You've got the cortex. So you're, you're currently in a symbiotic relationship. Your, with... your cortex and limbic system are in a symbiotic relationship. And generally, people like their cortex and they like the limbic system. I haven't met anyone who wants to delete their limbic system or delete their cortex. Everybody seems to like both. And the cortex is mostly in service to the limbic system. People may think that, that, that they're... that their thinking part of themselves is in charge, but it's mostly their limbic system that's in charge. And the cortex is trying to make the limbic system happy. That's what most of that computing power is oriented towards. How can I make the limbic system happy? That's what it's trying to do. Now, if, if we do have a third layer, which is the AI extension of yourself, that is also symbiotic, um, and there's enough bandwidth between the cortex and the AI extension of yourself such that the AI doesn't de- de facto separate, then that could be a good outcome. That could be quite a positive outcome for the future.

   15. JRJoe Rogan27:03

       So instead of replacing us, it will radically change our capabilities.

   16. EMElon Musk27:08

       Yes. It will, it will enable anyone who wants to have superhuman cognition.

   17. JRJoe Rogan27:19

       Wow.

   18. EMElon Musk27:19

       Anyone who wants. This is not a matter of earning power because your earning power would be vastly greater after you do it. So it's, it's just like anyone who wants can just do it in theory. That's the theory. And, and if that's the case, then... and let's say billions of people do it, then the outcome for humanity will be the sum of, of human will. The sum of billions of people's desire for the future. And that, that could be-

   19. JRJoe Rogan27:56

       But billions of people with enhanced cognitive ability.

   20. EMElon Musk27:59

       Yes.

   21. JRJoe Rogan27:59

       Radically enhanced.

   22. EMElon Musk28:00

       Yes.

   23. JRJoe Rogan28:01

       And th- which would be, uh, how much different than people today? Like if you, if you had to explain it to a person who didn't really know... understand what you're saying. Like how much different are you talking about when you say radically improve? Like what do you mean? You mean mind reading? Do you mean-

   24. EMElon Musk28:20

       It would be difficult. It will be difficult to, to really appreciate the diff- the difference. Um, it's kinda like how much smarter are you with a phone or computer than without? It's... you're vastly smarter actually. You know, you can answer any question if you... if you connect to the internet, you can answer any question pretty much instantly, any calculation, uh, the... that your phone's memory is essentially perfect. Uh, you can remember flawlessly... your ph- your phone can remember videos, pictures, uh, everything perfectly. Uh, that's the... the... your phone is already an extension of you. You're already a cyborg. You don't even... well, most people don't realize they are already a cyborg. It... that phone is an extension of yourself. It's just that the, the data rate, the rate at which... of... the communication rate between you and the cybernetic extension of yourself, that is your phone and computer is slow. It's very slow. And, and that, that... it's like a tiny straw of, of, of information flow between your biological self and your digital self. And we need to make that tiny straw like a giant river. Huge high bandwidth interface. It's an interface problem, data rate problem. Solve the data rate problem, then I think, I think we hang on to human machines in meiosis through the long term. And then people may decide that they want to retain their biological self or not. I think they'll probably choose to retain their biolo- biological self.

   25. JRJoe Rogan30:07

       Versus some sort of Ray Kurzweil scenario where they download themselves into a computer?

   26. EMElon Musk30:12

       You will be essentially snapshotted into a computer at any time if your biological self dies. You can just probably just upload into a new unit. Literally.

   27. JRJoe Rogan30:22

       Pass that whiskey. (laughs)

   28. EMElon Musk30:23

       (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan30:23

       This is... we're getting crazy over here.This is getting ridiculous. (glass clinks)

   30. EMElon Musk30:27

       Down the rabbit hole.
7. 38:02 – 46:59

   Social media, limbic resonance, and the simulation argument

   1. JRJoe Rogan38:02

      Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we're, we're a weird thing, you know? And I've often wondered if whether or not we're, you know, our ultimate goal is to give birth to some new thing and that that's why we're so obsessed with technology. Because it's not like these technologies really... I mean, it's certainly enhancing our lives to, in a certain way, but is, I mean, ultimately, is it making people happier right now? Most technology, I would say, no. In fact, you and I were talking about social media before this, about just not having Instagram on your phone and not dealing, and you feel better.

   2. EMElon Musk38:35

      Yeah. So I think one of the issues with social media that's been pointed out by many people is that, um, I think maybe particularly Instagram, um, people look like they have a much better life than they really do.

   3. JRJoe Rogan38:52

      Right.

   4. EMElon Musk38:53

      So...

   5. JRJoe Rogan38:53

      By design.

   6. EMElon Musk38:55

      Yeah. People are posting pictures of when they're really happy. They're modifying those pictures to be better looking. Um, even if they're not modifying the pictures, they're at least selecting the pictures for the best lighting, the best angle. Um, so people basically seem, uh, uh, they're way better looking than they basically really are.

   7. JRJoe Rogan39:15

      Right.

   8. EMElon Musk39:16

      Um, and they're way happier seeming than they really are. So if you look at everyone on Instagram, you might think, "Man, they're all these happy, beautiful people. And I'm not that good looking and I'm not happy, so I must suck, you know? And that's gonna make me feel sad." So, when in fact, those people you think are super happy, actually not that happy. Some of them are really depressed, they're very sad. Some of the happiest seeming people, actually some of the saddest people in reality. Um, and, and, and nobody looks good all the time, doesn't matter who you are.

   9. JRJoe Rogan39:56

      No. It's not even something you should want. Why do you wanna look great all the time?

   10. EMElon Musk40:02

       Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So, uh, so I think, I think things like that can make people quite sad.

   11. JRJoe Rogan40:08

       What do you mean? Just-

   12. EMElon Musk40:08

       Just by comparison, 'cause you, you sort of, you, you... People, people generally think of themselves relative to, to others. It's, it's a, we are constantly re-baselining our expectations. Um, and you can see this, say if you watch some show like Naked and Afraid or, you know, if you just go and try living in the woods by yourself for a while and you're like, you'll learn that civilization is quite great. It has, it's a lot of it... People want to come back to civilization pretty fast on Naked and Afraid.

   13. JRJoe Rogan40:40

       Wasn't that a Thoreau quote? "The comparison is the thief of joy."

   14. EMElon Musk40:45

       Yeah. Well, "Happiness is reality minus expectations."

   15. JRJoe Rogan40:49

       (laughs) That's great too. But, "The comparison is the thief of joy," really holds true to pe-

   16. NANarrator40:55

       Theodore Roosevelt.

   17. JRJoe Rogan40:56

       Roosevelt. Fascinating. Um, and when you're thinking about Instagram, 'cause what essentially Instagram is with a lot of people is, you're giving them the opportunity to be their own PR agent. And they always go towards the glamorous.

   18. EMElon Musk41:10

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JRJoe Rogan41:10

       You know? And when any- anybody does show, you know, #nofilter-

   20. EMElon Musk41:14

       (laughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan41:14

       ... you know, if they really do do that, like, "Oh, you're so brave. Look at you. No makeup." You know?

   22. EMElon Musk41:20

       Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan41:20

       Bitch, they look good anyway. "You look great. What are you doing? Oh my God, you don't have makeup on. You still look hot as fuck. You know what you're doing." I know what you're doing too. They're, they're, they're letting you know, and then they're feeding off that comment section. "Ooh." Just little... Sitting there like, like it's a fresh stream of love, like you're getting right up to the source as it comes out of the earth and you're just sucking that sweet, sweet love water.

   24. EMElon Musk41:41

       It's a lot of, lot of emojis. Emojis. Emojis.

   25. JRJoe Rogan41:43

       Yeah.

   26. EMElon Musk41:44

       Lot of emojis. Lot of emojis.

   27. JRJoe Rogan41:45

       I think, my con- my concern is not so much what Instagram is, is that I didn't think that people had the need for this or the expectation for some sort of technology that allows them to constantly get love and adulation from strangers and comments and, and this ability to project this sort of distorted version of who you really are. But I worry about where it goes. Like, what's the next one? What's the next one? Like, where is it? Is it gonna be augmented? Some sort of a weird augmented or virtual sort of Instagram type situation where you're not gonna want to live in this real world. You're gonna wanna interface with this sort of world that you've created through your social media page. Some next level thing.... it's-

   28. EMElon Musk42:26

       Yeah. We live in the simulation.

   29. JRJoe Rogan42:28

       Yeah, I mean, it-

   30. EMElon Musk42:29

       In the simulation.
8. 46:59 – 53:51

   Optimism vs doom, human nature, and “love is the answer”

   1. EMElon Musk46:59

      Yeah. Um, anyway, I don't, I don't wanna sound like, like things are too dark 'cause I think like you, you kinda have to be optimistic about the future. There's no point in being pessimistic. It's just too negative. Like there's noth-

   2. JRJoe Rogan47:16

      It doesn't help.

   3. EMElon Musk47:17

      It doesn't help, you know. I think you wanna be ... I mean, my theory is like you'd rather be optimistic. I think I'd ra- I'd rather be optimistic and wrong than pessimistic and right.

   4. JRJoe Rogan47:28

      Right.

   5. EMElon Musk47:29

      Or at least err on that side.

   6. JRJoe Rogan47:30

      Right. Yeah.

   7. EMElon Musk47:31

      Because if you, if you're pessimistic, you're just gonna be mis- miserable.

   8. JRJoe Rogan47:34

      Yeah. Yeah, and nobody wants to be around you anyway if it's the end of the world. You're like, "I fucking told you, bro."

   9. EMElon Musk47:41

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan47:42

       The world's ending.

   11. EMElon Musk47:43

       Exactly.

   12. JRJoe Rogan47:43

       Yeah. It is what it is for all-

   13. EMElon Musk47:46

       I mean, might as well-

   14. JRJoe Rogan47:47

       I mean-

   15. EMElon Musk47:47

       ... enjoy the journey.

   16. JRJoe Rogan47:48

       Right. If you really wanna get morose, I mean, it is what it is for all of us anyway. We, we're all gonna g- unless some- something changes.

   17. EMElon Musk47:56

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan47:56

       ... in a-

   19. EMElon Musk47:56

       I, I mean, ultimately, y- you know, even if we just sort of existed as humans forever, we'd be ... We'd still eventually there'd be like the heat death of the universe-

   20. JRJoe Rogan48:06

       Right.

   21. EMElon Musk48:06

       ... a zillion years from now.

   22. JRJoe Rogan48:08

       Right, even if-

   23. EMElon Musk48:08

       You know?

   24. JRJoe Rogan48:08

       ... we get it past the sun. If we-

   25. EMElon Musk48:10

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan48:10

       ... figure out a way past the sun running out of juice.

   27. EMElon Musk48:13

       Eventually it's gonna end. It's just a question of when.

   28. JRJoe Rogan48:16

       Something. Right.

   29. EMElon Musk48:17

       So it really is all about the journey.

   30. JRJoe Rogan48:19

       Hmm. Or transcendence from whatever we are now into something that doesn't worry about death.
9. 53:51 – 1:05:20

   Tesla’s fun features and autonomy: dancing cars, games, and safety controls

   1. JRJoe Rogan53:51

      is to, uh, abandon preconceived notions, abandon prejudice, abandon discrimination, and promote kindness and happiness as much as possible. You looking at this knife? Somebody gave it to me. Sorry.

   2. EMElon Musk54:06

      Yeah. What is this?

   3. JRJoe Rogan54:06

      Don Vincent, what the fuck did you do? Uh, my friend Donnie. He brought this with him, and it just stayed here. I have a real samurai sword if you want to play with that. I know you're into weapons. That's from the 1500s. Samurai sword at the end of the table?

   4. EMElon Musk54:17

      Really?

   5. JRJoe Rogan54:17

      Yeah.

   6. EMElon Musk54:17

      That's cool.

   7. JRJoe Rogan54:17

      I'll grab it. Hold on. Yeah, that's a legit samurai sword.... from an actual samurai from the 1500s. If you pull out that blade, that blade was made the old way, where a master craftsman-

   8. EMElon Musk54:39

      Older metal.

   9. JRJoe Rogan54:39

      ... folded that metal and hammered it down over and over again, over a long period of time and honed that blade into what it is now. What's crazy is that more than 500 years later, that thing is still pristine. I mean, whoever took care of that and passed it down f- to the next person who took care of it and, you know, until it got to the podcast room, it's pretty fucking crazy.

   10. EMElon Musk55:03

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan55:04

       One day, someone's gonna be looking at a Tesla like that, "Dude."

   12. EMElon Musk55:08

       Mm-hmm.

   13. JRJoe Rogan55:08

       "These fucking back doors, they pop up sideways, like a Lamborghini." (laughs)

   14. EMElon Musk55:17

       You should see what the Tesla can do. Uh, you didn't, you sh- I'll show you afterwards what it's-

   15. JRJoe Rogan55:22

       Well, I've driven one. I love them.

   16. EMElon Musk55:24

       Yeah. But most people don't know what it can do.

   17. JRJoe Rogan55:25

       In terms of, like, ludicrous mode? In terms of, like, driving super fast and r- irresponsibly on public roads? Is that what you're saying?

   18. EMElon Musk55:32

       Well, any car can do that.

   19. JRJoe Rogan55:34

       Yeah. What can it do that, that I need to know about?

   20. EMElon Musk55:39

       I mean, the Model X can do this, like, ballet thing to the Trans-Siberian Orchestra. It's pretty cool.

   21. JRJoe Rogan55:44

       Where it dances?

   22. EMElon Musk55:45

       Yes.

   23. JRJoe Rogan55:45

       Legitimately, like moves around to the (singing)

   24. EMElon Musk55:48

       Yes.

   25. JRJoe Rogan55:49

       ... (singing) Why would you program that into a car?

   26. EMElon Musk55:52

       (wheezing laughter) It seemed like fun.

   27. JRJoe Rogan55:55

       (laughs) That's what I get about you. That's what's weird. Like, when you showed up here, you were all smiles and you pull out a fucking blowtorch, and not a blowtorch. But I'm like, "Look at this dude."

   28. EMElon Musk56:05

       Not s- a flamethrower.

   29. JRJoe Rogan56:05

       Not a flamethrower. I'm like, "He's having fun."

   30. EMElon Musk56:07

       I just wanna be clear, it's definitely not a flamethrower.
10. 1:05:20 – 1:18:41

    Future mobility: tunnels in 3D, vacuum/maglev concepts, and flying-car skepticism

    1. EMElon Musk1:05:20

       Tunnels will help it wouldn't have traffic.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:05:23

       That'll help a lot.

    3. EMElon Musk1:05:24

       Yeah.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:05:24

       How many of those can you put in there?

    5. EMElon Musk1:05:26

       It's-

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:05:26

       Put one in for everybody?

    7. EMElon Musk1:05:27

       Nice thing about tunnels, nice thing about tunnels is you can go 3D.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:05:30

       Oh, right.

    9. EMElon Musk1:05:30

       So you can go many levels.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:05:32

        Right.

    11. EMElon Musk1:05:33

        So-

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:05:33

        Until you hit hell.

    13. EMElon Musk1:05:35

        Yeah. But you could go- you could have 100 levels of tunnel, no problems.

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:05:38

        Jesus Christ, I don't wanna be on 99. None to be on 99th, negative 99 floors. Whew.

    15. EMElon Musk1:05:46

        This is one of the fundamental things people don't appreciate about tunnels is that it's not like roads. The fundamental issue with roads is that you have a 2D transport system-

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:05:55

        And-

    17. EMElon Musk1:05:55

        ... and a 3D living and workspace environment. So, you got all these tall buildings or- or concentrated work environments and- and then- then you wanna go into this, like, 2D transport system which-

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:06:09

        Hugely inefficient.

    19. EMElon Musk1:06:09

        ... is pretty low density 'cause cars are sp- spaced out pretty far, um, and- and so that obviously is not gonna work. Uh, you're gonna have traffic guaranteed. But if you can go 3D on your transport system, then you can solve all traffic and you can either go 3D up with a flying car or you can go 3D down with tunnels and you can have as many tunnel levels as you want and you can, uh, arbitrarily relieve any amount of traffic. You can go further down with tunnels than you can go up with buildings. Go 10,000 feet down if you want.... I wouldn't recommend it, but.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:06:46

        What was that movie with, uh, what's his face? Bradley Coop-... Not Bradley Cooper. Uh, Christian... No. What the fuck's his name? Batman.

    21. EMElon Musk1:06:54

        Sounds like-

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:06:54

        Who was Batman?

    23. NANarrator1:06:56

        Christian Bale.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:06:57

        Christian Bale. Where he, they fought dragons, him and Matthew McConaughey.

    25. EMElon Musk1:07:00

        (laughs)

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:07:01

        (laughs) They went down deep into the earth. How high, how far, deep can you go?

    27. EMElon Musk1:07:04

        I don't think that was Batman, but-

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:07:05

        Yeah, it was. It was.

    29. EMElon Musk1:07:06

        Batman fought dragons? Underground?

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:07:08

        No, it wasn't Batman-
11. 1:18:41 – 1:26:16

    Sustainable energy urgency: why fossil fuels are a dangerous ‘experiment’

    1. EMElon Musk1:18:41

       The airplane, electric airplane isn't necessary right now. Electric cars are important.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:18:47

       Do we need some sort of-

    3. EMElon Musk1:18:48

       Solar energy is important. Stationary storage of energy is important. These things are much more important than creating electric supersonic VTOL.Also, um, the planes naturally, you really want that gravitational energy density for an aircraft, um, and this is improving over time. So, you know, it's, it's important that we accelerate the transition to sustainable energy. That's why electric cars, it matters whether electric cars happen sooner or later. You know, we're, we're really playing the crazy game here with the atmosphere and the oceans.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:19:23

       Yeah.

    5. EMElon Musk1:19:23

       We're taking vast amounts of carbon from deep underground and putting this... putting this in the, in the atmosphere. This is crazy. We should not do this. It's very dangerous. (sighs) So we, we should, we should accelerate the transition to sustainable energy. I mean, this, the bizarre thing is that obviously we're going to run out of oil in the long term. You know, we're gonna ... there's only so much oil we can, we can mine and burn. And it's tautological. We must have a sus- a sustainable energy transport and energy infrastructure in the long term. So we know that's the end point. We know that. So why run this crazy experiment where we take trillions of tons of carbon from underground and put it in the atmosphere and oceans? This is an insane experiment. This is the dumbest experiment in, in human history. Why are we doing this? It's crazy.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:20:25

       Do you think this is a product of momentum? That we started off doing this when it was just a few engines, a few hundred million gallons of fuel over the whole world, not that big of a deal, and then slowly but surely over a century, it got out of control? And now it, it, it's not just our fuel, but it's also the ... W- I mean, it, it... Fossil fuels are involved in so many different electronics, so many different items that people buy. There's just this constant desire for fossil fuels. Constant need for oil.

    7. EMElon Musk1:21:00

       Yeah.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:21:00

       Without consideration of the sustainability.

    9. EMElon Musk1:21:03

       You know, the, the things like oil, or coal, gas, it's the easy money.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:21:07

        Right.

    11. EMElon Musk1:21:07

        It's the easy money. So...

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:21:09

        Have you heard about clean coal?

    13. EMElon Musk1:21:10

        (laughs) Oh.

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:21:11

        The president's been tweeting about it. It's gotta be real. Clean coal. All caps. Did you see? He used all caps. Clean coal.

    15. EMElon Musk1:21:19

        Um, well...

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:21:23

        (laughs)

    17. EMElon Musk1:21:23

        (sighs) You know, it's very difficult to put that CO2 back in the ground. It doesn't like being in solid form.

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:21:28

        Have you thought about something like that?

    19. EMElon Musk1:21:29

        It takes a lot of energy.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:21:29

        Like some sort of a filter? Giant building-sized filter sucks carbon out of the atmosphere?

    21. EMElon Musk1:21:36

        (laughs) Uh-uh. No.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:21:37

        Is that possible?

    23. EMElon Musk1:21:37

        N- no. No, no it doesn't ... It's not possible.

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:21:39

        No?

    25. EMElon Musk1:21:39

        Nope. Nope.

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:21:40

        No?

    27. EMElon Musk1:21:40

        Nope. Definitely not.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:21:41

        So we're fucked.

    29. EMElon Musk1:21:42

        No, we're not fucked. (laughs)

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:21:46

        (laughs)

Episode duration: 2:37:02