Joe Rogan Experience #1199 - Tom Segura & Sean Anders

Tom Segura 0:03 I didn't realize how good your hair is.

Sean Anders 0:06 Thanks. I'm losing it, but it's, what's left of it is still working all right.

Joe Rogan 0:08 Boom, and we're live, gentlemen. Hello, Sean.

Sean Anders 0:11 Hey, how are ya?

Joe Rogan 0:12 Hello, Tom.

Tom Segura 0:12 Hello, Joseph.

Joe Rogan 0:13 What's go- you guys did a movie? Did you make a movie?

Tom Segura 0:15 We made a movie.

Sean Anders 0:16 We did.

Joe Rogan 0:16 You guys do movies?

Sean Anders 0:17 We do. We're movie guys.

Tom Segura 0:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:19 How many movies have you made?

Sean Anders 0:20 Uh, well, one.

Tom Segura 0:21 Well, I bet you've made ... How many have you made before?

Sean Anders 0:23 Uh, uh, like six. But-

Tom Segura 0:25 Yeah.

Sean Anders 0:25 But we've made one.

Tom Segura 0:26 We've made one.

Sean Anders 0:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:27 What's your favorite one other than the one that's right now, which is definitely your favorite? 'Cause you're promoting it right now.

Sean Anders 0:31 Uh, Sex Drive.

Joe Rogan 0:33 Sex Drive? Which one was that?

Sean Anders 0:35 It's the first one. It's the one nobody knows about.

Tom Segura 0:36 Yeah, it's his first one.

Joe Rogan 0:37 Oh. Nobody knows about it?

Sean Anders 0:38 I mean, it just, it was one of those movies that just opened and nobody knew about it, but it was, it was a really, really fun movie. It was.

Joe Rogan 0:43 Maybe we could change that.

Sean Anders 0:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:44 Is it on iTunes or Netflix or-

Sean Anders 0:46 Yeah, yeah, it's all over. James Marsden's in it. harry-

Tom Segura 0:48 This is the one, is this the one that you, like, when you made it, you were like, "And maybe I'll go back to working fucking construction." Or whatever, right?

Sean Anders 0:55 Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, that's, I thought, I thought, thought it was over after that. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:59 Did you finance it or anything?

Sean Anders 1:01 No, no, we made it, um, we made it with Summit Pictures and it was, it was, it was amazing. They, they, uh, we were in town trying to get a career going, you know, trying to, trying to make things happen. We were making a TV pilot at the time, which was a living hell. And, uh, and we had gone out and pitched this, uh, idea to a bunch of places and nobody bought it. So then in the middle of our, uh, editing our pilot, Summit Pictures called and said, um, "We really, we keep thinking about that pitch. Would you guys be willing to write it?" And I said, "You know what? Tell them ..." I was really busy. I said, "Tell them we'll write it if I can direct it." But I figured that would make them go away. And they said, "All right." And so we went in and we wrote it and we turned it in and they green lit it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:41 (laughs)

Tom Segura 1:41 (laughs)

Sean Anders 1:41 It was just crazy. It was just this crazy process where we got this movie green lit and I think we wrote the draft in, in like a month and then we turned it in and they, they loved it and they said-

Joe Rogan 1:49 What's it about?

Sean Anders 1:50 It's a, it's a, it's a teen road trip movie. It's about this, these kids that, uh, it was kind of in the early days of the, you know, Facebook and all that stuff. And it might have even been, I don't know, I could never track the ... It might have even been like sort of Myspace into Facebook, that era, you know. Um, but it was about a kid who meets a, a girl online and goes to lose his virginity on a, on a road trip.

Joe Rogan 2:11 Oh, shit.

Tom Segura 2:13 Funny.

Sean Anders 2:13 It is funny, yeah. Marsden's in it, James Marsden, he's really funny. Uh, Clark Duke and, um, yeah, it had a good cast and, uh-

Joe Rogan 2:19 There it is.

Sean Anders 2:20 (clears throat) Yeah. Wow, good. Um-

Joe Rogan 2:22 Bam.

Sean Anders 2:24 But it was a really great experience. It was really fun. And then we, we, we tested it, we did the test screenings and it just murdered, like it just ... And the studio got really excited and I thought, "Oh my God," like, "I'm gonna have a huge career."

Tom Segura 2:35 (laughs)

Sean Anders 2:35 And the movie came out and it didn't do any- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:37 (laughs)

Tom Segura 2:37 (laughs)

Sean Anders 2:37 It didn't do any business at all. It was like, "Okay, I'm going to go back to Wisconsin and, and, uh, not have a career at all." So ... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:44 Is it true that Instant Family, you hired Tom because Bert Kreischer wasn't available?

Sean Anders 2:48 Yes. That's absolutely true.

Tom Segura 2:49 Goddamn it. Don't tell me that, man.

Sean Anders 2:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 2:51 That's what I'd heard.

Sean Anders 2:52 Well, and he was asking, he was asking for a lot of money, a lot more than-

Joe Rogan 2:55 Well, you know Bert is.

Sean Anders 2:57 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 2:57 He gets lofty with his expectations.

Tom Segura 2:58 He's like, "Whatever Mark gets, I want double."

Sean Anders 3:00 "I want double. Woo-hoo!"

Tom Segura 3:01 And then they were like, "We can't do it." (laughs)

Sean Anders 3:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:05 (laughs)

Sean Anders 3:05 (laughs)

Tom Segura 3:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:06 So this movie is based in, uh, in no small part on your o- own life experiences.

Sean Anders 3:13 It is, yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:13 Of, uh, adopting an actual ... You, you adopted like a full family.

Sean Anders 3:17 Three human children, yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:18 Wow.

Sean Anders 3:20 (laughs)

Tom Segura 3:20 That's wild.

Joe Rogan 3:21 That's a, that's a bold maneuver, sir.

Sean Anders 3:23 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:23 What were the ages?

Sean Anders 3:24 Uh, six, three, and a year and a half in my home.

Joe Rogan 3:27 Wow.

Sean Anders 3:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 3:28 What was the process?

Sean Anders 3:29 Um, well, it starts ... And this is how it starts in the movie as well. My wife and I, for years I didn't, I wasn't making any money and including when, after I made Sex Drive. And, um, I, uh, so I didn't really feel like I could afford to have kids. So whenever we'd talk about it I'd just be like, "You know, not there yet." And, uh, and then finally, um, when I felt like I was doing better, I was starting to get a career together, I just started to feel like I was gonna be one of those old dads, you know? Like by the time the kid was a teenager I wasn't gonna be able to play with them or-

Joe Rogan 3:59 How old are you now?

Sean Anders 4:00 I'm 49 now. I was 41 at the time.

Joe Rogan 4:03 Mm-hmm.

Sean Anders 4:04 And, uh, so ... God, is that right? Oh man, it's depressing. Anyway, uh, (laughs) so I, I, uh, I made this dumb joke to my wife. I said, "Look, why don't we just adopt a five year old? It'll be like I got started five years ago and like I'm, you know, right back in the game."

Joe Rogan 4:17 Right.

Sean Anders 4:18 And she was like, "You know, that's actually a really interesting idea." And I was like, "No, I'm, I was totally kidding. Didn't mean anything by that at all."

Joe Rogan 4:26 (laughs)

Sean Anders 4:26 And, and then she went to a website and she showed me the website. And then when I saw the website I was like, "Oh, wow." You see these kids, you see their faces, you start to learn a little bit more about it. And we just started having conversations and it, it went from there. Now I, now I got three kids and a movie.

Joe Rogan 4:41 And they're all siblings?

Sean Anders 4:42 Yes.

Joe Rogan 4:43 So they all came from one mom and what d- what is, how did they get separated from the family?

Sean Anders 4:50 Um, I don't have a lot of details about that. You know, they don't really tell you.

Joe Rogan 4:55 Right.

Sean Anders 4:55 (clears throat) You know, you, you know a little bit, but not much. I mean, I know that there was, that there were issues with drugs and I, and I think there was some kind of a fire at some point.

Joe Rogan 5:03 Mm-hmm.

Sean Anders 5:03 But it's all pretty, pretty sketchy as far as what you hear.

Joe Rogan 5:07 Right.

Sean Anders 5:07 So you learn a lot about the k- the kids themselves, but not that much about the situation.

Joe Rogan 5:12 And what, what made you want to turn this into a film? Like, I would imagine that's a very personal experience.

Sean Anders 5:20 Yeah. Um, it was actually my writing partner, John Morris, 'cause I had been about three years into it at that point. And the beginning of it was a nightmare. Like, like epic v- bad decision, why did we ever do this? (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:35 Really?

Sean Anders 5:35 Yeah, it was, it was really a nightmare for a short time. And then when it came online and we became a family, it really became the best thing that ever happened to me. And you know, when John and I get together every day, we just talk about our lives a little bit. That's how we get started. So John had been hearing all these stories and one day he just said, "I don't know why we're not doing a movie about this, 'cause nobody really knows how this works when you go into foster care to adopt kids." So we started talking about it and then there was the conversation of whether it could be a comedy or not, because that's what we do. We make comedies. And John again was like, "Most of the stuff you've told me is really funny." So not all of it, of course, but that's ... And then we thought, wow, you know, we could approach this as a comedy and we might be able to get-

Tom Segura 6:15 ... you know, a more general audience to, to get their, their interest in it that way because it'll feel less scary because that's the problem is that most movies that are made on this topic just frighten people.

Sean Anders 6:26 Right.

Tom Segura 6:26 And they make people think that these kids are all, are all damaged and-

Sean Anders 6:29 Right.

Tom Segura 6:30 ... unreachable and everything, you know?

Sean Anders 6:32 Right. Do you worry that it'd be like that movie 101 Dalmatians that a bunch of people start getting foster kids now and just screw them up?

Tom Segura 6:38 Yeah, we (laughs) -

Sean Anders 6:39 (laughs)

Tom Segura 6:39 ... well, we were talking about Top Gun, about how, you know, remember when Top Gun came out and everybody joined the Navy thinking they were gonna fly the planes?

Sean Anders 6:45 Right, right. (laughs)

Tom Segura 6:46 Yeah. (laughs)

Sean Anders 6:46 Well, when, um, The Color of Money came out, pool halls boomed across the country. I mean-

Tom Segura 6:51 Yeah.

Sean Anders 6:51 ... a giant impact on pool halls-

Tom Segura 6:54 (laughs)

Sean Anders 6:54 ... from that one Tom Cruise movie.

Tom Segura 6:55 Mm-hmm.

Sean Anders 6:56 Really.

Tom Segura 6:56 A lot of people just got scammed out of their fucking-

Sean Anders 6:59 (laughs)

Tom Segura 6:59 ... pocket money basically. (laughs) Sure.

Sean Anders 7:00 (laughs)

Tom Segura 7:01 I'm sure there was some of that going on.

Sean Anders 7:02 But that always happens.

Tom Segura 7:03 I think the crazy thing about this too was that, like, on the set you realize, like when you're, when we're doing this, you go like, "Oh, yeah, I always thought of people who do that," like you know they exist, but you're like those are nameless, faceless angels.

Sean Anders 7:16 (laughs)

Tom Segura 7:16 Like, they're not real people.

Sean Anders 7:17 Right, right.

Tom Segura 7:17 You know? Like, if you were like, "Do you know any of your friends adopt?" I'd be like, "No, I don't have friends like that."

Sean Anders 7:22 Yeah.

Tom Segura 7:22 Like, those are other people. You know?

Sean Anders 7:23 Yeah.

Tom Segura 7:23 Yes. And then you start, like on the set there was, you know, people visiting or consulting and they would be like, oh, you know, they adopted or they run some foster care thing. And then you're like, "Oh, this is actually something that people really do."

Sean Anders 7:35 Well, even like dudes on the crew that somebody would come up, you know, who's in the electrical department, be like, "Oh, hey, bro, I got... I adopted two kids by the way." And you'd be like, "Really? Wow."

Tom Segura 7:45 (laughs) Yeah.

Sean Anders 7:45 You know. Wow. Or, or, "Hey, I got adopted when I was four years old." You just would like once it's out there-

Tom Segura 7:49 Now you see it now everywhere.

Sean Anders 7:50 Yeah, it's- it's-

Tom Segura 7:51 And I... People are hitting me up. Someone hit me up yesterday, they're like, "My sister is adopting four siblings."

Sean Anders 7:56 Yes.

Tom Segura 7:56 "This week."

Sean Anders 7:57 Wow.

Tom Segura 7:57 Yeah. It's nuts.

Sean Anders 7:59 Wow.

Tom Segura 7:59 I mean like, it's like something, I don't want to... It's, it's almost when your friend gets a car and then you start seeing it everywhere.

Sean Anders 8:05 (laughs)

Tom Segura 8:05 (laughs) And you're like-

Sean Anders 8:05 You're like-

Tom Segura 8:06 Oh yeah, there's that car.

Sean Anders 8:07 "No, it is exactly like that though."

Tom Segura 8:08 Yeah.

Sean Anders 8:08 (laughs) Um, we talked about that video that, uh, went around online of this little girl that realizes... She's opening up a box and there's something in it that tells her that she's been adopted by these two people that are with her. And-

Tom Segura 8:22 It's really... Yeah.

Sean Anders 8:23 ... it's impossible to not cry.

Tom Segura 8:25 Yeah.

Sean Anders 8:26 I mean if you have any heart at all and you watch that little girl freak out and-

Tom Segura 8:29 It's... It breaks you up.

Sean Anders 8:31 I think that's almost the test as far as what you were talking about, about how s- 'cause believe me, I was not-

Tom Segura 8:35 A test if you're a piece of shit or not?

Sean Anders 8:37 Yeah. (laughs)

Tom Segura 8:37 When you watch that? (laughs)

Sean Anders 8:39 (laughs) Yeah.

Tom Segura 8:40 Yeah, we should show that to a lot of people.

Sean Anders 8:42 (laughs)

Tom Segura 8:43 (laughs) Yeah.

Sean Anders 8:43 Yeah.

Tom Segura 8:44 What's your reaction?

Sean Anders 8:44 Yeah.

Tom Segura 8:45 Oh, you're a piece of shit, okay.

Sean Anders 8:46 You're a s-

Tom Segura 8:46 Yeah.

Sean Anders 8:46 ... you're a sociopath.

Tom Segura 8:47 Yeah.

Sean Anders 8:47 Uh, but no, I mean there's that, what you were just getting at as far as... Believe me, I am not that guy that, like, I didn't feel special or, um, like any o- one of those sort of heart of gold angels, you know?

Tom Segura 8:57 Yeah.

Sean Anders 8:57 We have the line that's in the movie where Mark just says, "That's for the, the kind of people that volunteer when it's not even a holiday and we don't do that."

Tom Segura 9:04 Mm. Yeah, you should probably tell the audience that I'm not starring in this movie right now for people-

Sean Anders 9:07 Oh, you're starring in it.

Tom Segura 9:08 (laughs) No, there's people who are like, "So Tom stars?" And no it's-

Sean Anders 9:11 You're-

Tom Segura 9:11 ... it says Mark Wahlberg is Roseby.

Sean Anders 9:12 You're starring in the movie for like four and a half minutes.

Tom Segura 9:14 There you go.

Sean Anders 9:15 And then everyone l- (laughs)

Tom Segura 9:16 Everyone else does it.

Sean Anders 9:16 And then Mark Wahlberg stars in the rest of it.

Tom Segura 9:18 That's true.

Sean Anders 9:18 (laughs)

Tom Segura 9:18 That's a good way of breaking it down.

Sean Anders 9:19 Well, the movie's only probably like 90 minutes. Yeah.

Tom Segura 9:21 Yeah.

Sean Anders 9:22 So it's pretty good. (laughs)

Tom Segura 9:22 That's not bad. What did I have, probably like seven scenes? It's good scenes though.

Sean Anders 9:25 Yeah, they're good scenes.

Tom Segura 9:26 Yeah.

Sean Anders 9:27 Good... No, you got a solid presence. You didn't make the- Didn't make the poster.

Tom Segura 9:29 You didn't make the poster.

Sean Anders 9:29 Damn.

Tom Segura 9:29 Didn't make the poster.

Sean Anders 9:30 Didn't make the poster.

Tom Segura 9:31 No.

Sean Anders 9:32 You, you know you made the standee though, did you know that?

Tom Segura 9:34 The what?

Sean Anders 9:34 There's, there's a standee in movie theaters and you're in that.

Tom Segura 9:36 Oh, really?

Sean Anders 9:37 Yeah.

Tom Segura 9:37 All right. Hmm. I'll take that. Yeah, they can steal one.

Sean Anders 9:40 I've never even heard that word, standee. Standee, those are the big cardboard things. Yeah. I just call it-

Tom Segura 9:44 Wow.

Sean Anders 9:44 ... those things were called. I just called it-

Tom Segura 9:45 I didn't know that either.

Sean Anders 9:46 ... cardboard cutout things. (laughs)

Tom Segura 9:47 That's what I always called it, cardboard cutout.

Sean Anders 9:49 (laughs)

Tom Segura 9:50 (laughs) Standee is the real, the real term.

Sean Anders 9:53 Is that the term in the industry, is standee? Yeah, yeah. That's an industry term. That's a real industry term. You learned something today. Wow.

Tom Segura 9:57 Yeah.

Sean Anders 9:58 (laughs)

Tom Segura 9:58 Wait, so you, 'cause you were telling me this and I was like, he was about to tell me before you came in, I was like, "This sounds like this could be pretty good. Don't tell me. Save it for the podcast." That... 'Cause he's done... This is the most press Sean's done for a film that he's put out. That, did you go under they were like, "Let's give you some advice on media?"

Sean Anders 10:15 Yeah, well first of all, I'm terrible at it. (laughs) So there's that. 'Cause I don't do... This is the thing. When you direct a movie, especially movies like the kind of movies that I make, you know, comedies and, you know, big broad comedies, people don't really care who directed those movies. And I'm good with that, like I'm totally good with that. But what usually happens is the studio, the director usually wants to be kind of a part of the campaign, so the studio will find... They'll sort of throw bones at you of like press that you can do. And I always tell them, "Look, if I can be helpful in any way, let me know. I'll do whatever you need me to do, but don't throw me any bones 'cause I don't care." Right. Like I don't need to- (laughs) So they do that to kind of just pump up the ego of the director that-

Tom Segura 10:53 (laughs)

Sean Anders 10:53 ... certain directors just really wanna be the next Quentin Tarantino. (laughs)

Tom Segura 10:56 Yeah. Yeah, I can't-

Sean Anders 10:57 You want them to-

Tom Segura 10:57 I can't imagine there's some directors they really have to do it for.

Sean Anders 11:00 Mm. Well, I mean, I get it. They don't want you to feel left out or whatever.

Tom Segura 11:03 Right.

Sean Anders 11:03 But by my first couple movies, I thought, "Oh, I have to do this stuff." And then I realized... I, I actually had this experience where I was in this red carpet thing and they brought me up to this reporter and they said, "This is Sean Anders. He directed the movie." And she had this big look on her face and then she went like, "Oh."

Tom Segura 11:17 God.

Sean Anders 11:17 And she's... (laughs) And I was like, "No, no, no. It's cool. You don't have to..." (laughs)

Tom Segura 11:21 Wow.

Sean Anders 11:21 "You don't have to-"

Tom Segura 11:21 She was so disappointed.

Sean Anders 11:22 She was so dis-

Tom Segura 11:23 (laughs)

Sean Anders 11:23 She was so disappointed. Those people. And that's when it sunk into me where I was just like, "Oh, they don't care. They don't give a..." So that's, that's fine with me. I'm good there, you know? Well, they're such fame whores in those-

Tom Segura 11:32 They are.

Sean Anders 11:33 Those red carpet things.

Tom Segura 11:34 Yeah.

Sean Anders 11:34 They're so weird.

Tom Segura 11:35 Yeah.

Sean Anders 11:36 Those things are so weird. And some people, that is the highlight of their life walking that carpet.

Tom Segura 11:41 Yep.

Sean Anders 11:41 Oh, I can't... (imitates camera clicking) Over here, Tom. (imitates camera clicking)

Tom Segura 11:45 Get your pose down right. (imitates camera clicking)

Sean Anders 11:48 (laughs)

Tom Segura 11:48 It's a really weird thing. Also, paparazzi at the airport. You have that where, um, I've seen them where I'm at baggage and they're looking around and then they're like-... "Hey, Tom..." And they'll ask me, like, one thing-

Sean Anders 12:01 (laughs)

Tom Segura 12:01 ... and they're like... They're obviously not there for me-

Sean Anders 12:03 The TMC people.

Tom Segura 12:03 ... but they're like, they're like, "We got time till fucking whatever, Seth Rogen gets off the plane. So let me ask you something." And then they're like, "Oh, all right, nevermind. Here's everybody."

Sean Anders 12:11 (laughs)

Tom Segura 12:12 Like (laughs) like just blow you off, and they're like, "All right."

Sean Anders 12:13 I had it happen only one time because this obviously doesn't happen to me.

Tom Segura 12:16 Yeah.

Sean Anders 12:17 Uh, I was flying into LAX, and I was getting off a red eye. And I was so just tired. I looked like shit and that. And this guy... these two guys come up, and they just were so nice. They were like, "Hey, you're Sean Anders, right?" And I was like, "Yeah. Yes, I am Sean Anders."

Tom Segura 12:31 (laughs)

Sean Anders 12:31 Nobody ever... You know.

Tom Segura 12:32 Yeah.

Sean Anders 12:32 And so it takes me a second to realize, and I thought it was so weird because they were... It was right after... It was shortly after Daddy's Home. And that was, like, the biggest hit.

Tom Segura 12:40 Yeah.

Sean Anders 12:40 And they were asking me about Horrible Bosses 2. And I was like, "Why are they asking me about, of all things?" Hor-... And I thought, "Oh, because Jennifer Aniston's in it."

Tom Segura 12:47 Ah.

Sean Anders 12:47 So they want me to say something about Jennifer Aniston and just see if they can catch me saying something crazy. And I was like, "W- what was that?"

Tom Segura 12:53 Right, looking for a sound bite slip or something.

Sean Anders 12:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 12:55 That's all they try to do.

Sean Anders 12:56 Yeah.

Tom Segura 12:56 Yeah, it's the worst.

Joe Rogan 12:58 It was sick. Yeah. It's weird.

Sean Anders 12:59 (laughs) And my wife is like, "What was that?" I'm like, "I... I... It took me, like, an hour to sort of, like, unpack it."

Tom Segura 13:03 They're trying to make you clickbait. It's nuts.

Sean Anders 13:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:05 (laughs) Yeah. Well, what's interesting too is it's, like, sort of an impromptu interview that you have to do, right? Like, if someone said, "Hey, there's this guy. His name is Mike. He lives in Studio City. He wants you to go to his house, and, uh, he's gonna film you. Uh, he's gonna ask you wacky questions." You're like, "No."

Tom Segura 13:21 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 13:22 But if Mike just shows up-

Tom Segura 13:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:24 ... at the baggage claim and puts that camera in your face. "Hey, Sean. Uh, Jennifer Aniston, man. What's up with the Botox?"

Sean Anders 13:29 (laughs)

Tom Segura 13:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:29 And then you're like, "What?"

Tom Segura 13:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 13:31 "What the fuck?"

Tom Segura 13:32 Right.

Joe Rogan 13:32 You know? I mean, that's how they get you. Like, you wouldn't do an interview with them under any other circumstances, which is one of the... Like, one of the weird things that happened during the Roseanne Barr things, Roseanne Barr, when her show was canceled and all the controversy was going on, she was supposed to do the podcast. And it became a big news thing.

Tom Segura 13:48 Right.

Joe Rogan 13:48 Because she put it on her, uh, her Twitter that "I'm gonna do it," and we talked about it. And then they tried to show up at the podcast studio. So they had all these news people standing outside the podcast studio with their microphones. We're out, out in front of where Joe Rogan does his podcast. And they thought for some reason, just because they're there, people have to talk to them.

Tom Segura 14:10 Right.

Joe Rogan 14:10 Like, "I'm here."

Tom Segura 14:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:12 "Talk to me."

Tom Segura 14:12 You must.

Joe Rogan 14:12 Like, they're, they're, they're made out of milk. They're barely human. They, the way they talk is the most boring version of an interview you'd ever get, ever. It's a, a tiny, quick little sound bite.

Tom Segura 14:24 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 14:24 But they feel like because they're there, like, "The camera's on. I've got the microphone. Come on."

Tom Segura 14:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:29 "Do it." If they said, "Hey, you know, KWFuckYourself wants you to come in and, and sit down for an interview." You'd be like, "No. I don't wanna-"

Tom Segura 14:36 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 14:36 "... I don't wanna talk to them. I don't... I don't have anything to say." Like, "I'll, I'll do all my talking on the podcast," but-

Tom Segura 14:42 Yeah.

Sean Anders 14:43 Well, but... And also, if you're... Uh, I mean, I'm in the business, but again, I'm not somebody that does a tremendous amount of press or, or at least not until a couple of weeks ago. Um, and if you're not accustomed to that, it's terrifying.

Joe Rogan 14:55 It's weird.

Tom Segura 14:55 Oh, yeah.

Sean Anders 14:55 Because somebody puts a camera in your face because immediately you're thinking like, "Well, if I just go, 'You know what, man? Fuck you.' Like, "I don't have time for this.""

Tom Segura 15:00 That'd be worse.

Sean Anders 15:01 Yeah. Then you're gonna... So you just think-

Tom Segura 15:03 Yeah, you're an asshole.

Sean Anders 15:03 ... like, "I can't even walk away from this."

Tom Segura 15:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:04 Yeah.

Sean Anders 15:04 So you're... Just feel like you're... All of a sudden, somebody threw a cage over you.

Joe Rogan 15:07 And they're not even re- uh, asking you, "Can I do this?" They're just-

Tom Segura 15:10 No.

Joe Rogan 15:10 ... doing it. They're just, "Hey, Sean." Uh-

Tom Segura 15:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:12 "Let me ask you a question, Sean." You know, like-

Tom Segura 15:13 It's forced. It, it's forced on you.

Joe Rogan 15:15 Yeah.

Tom Segura 15:16 With an obsequy.

Joe Rogan 15:16 But it puts you in a... It puts you in a weird spot. It's like all of a sudden you're in... You're, you're on your, on your heels, like, right away.

Tom Segura 15:21 Yeah, because your instinct is to be defensive if someone gets... So you're... You know what I mean?

Joe Rogan 15:24 Yeah.

Tom Segura 15:24 Your instinct is not gonna be, "I'll give the most thoughtful answer to this," because it's, it's, it's in the moment. Someone just dropped it on you. So now you're like, "Okay." And, and your, your emotions might be kind of all over the place, and you're not... You're, you're not stopping to, like... Like ha- having a conversation. You're just sort of trying to figure your way out of it.

Joe Rogan 15:43 And how many people have ruined their careers or lives on those things?

Tom Segura 15:48 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:48 Just said... just fucked up and said one... They're just trying to be funny or just-

Tom Segura 15:53 That's the thing because they'll misquote you and-

Joe Rogan 15:54 ... irritated, and then they get you.

Tom Segura 15:56 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 15:56 And then they put it up, and you're like, "Fuck, why didn't I think through that?"

Tom Segura 15:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:58 "I was just... I was coming home from the airport. I was tired. I was jet-lagged." Bourdain got a shitload of death threats because he said... Uh, they asked him, "If you had to serve dinner to Kim Jong Un and Donald Trump, what would you serve?" He said, "Hemlock." He was trying to be funny.

Tom Segura 16:14 Yeah.

Sean Anders 16:14 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 16:14 And, and then, uh, you... All these MAGA f- fucking morons, protesters were... They, they were all sending these tweets like, "POTUS." You know, "He's threatening POTUS," and all.

Tom Segura 16:25 Oh, boy.

Joe Rogan 16:25 It was so strange.

Sean Anders 16:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 16:27 Like, "Where, where is the NA... You know, where is the Secret Service? They should lock this motherfucker up," and... Like, you guys are crazy.

Sean Anders 16:34 Well-

Joe Rogan 16:34 It's a joke.

Sean Anders 16:34 That's-

Tom Segura 16:34 Yeah.

Sean Anders 16:34 And that's the thing right there is that clickbait articles are... They all make it s-... It'll say like, "So-and-so said this," and they make it sound like somebody, like, called a press conference to say something ridiculous.

Joe Rogan 16:44 Right.

Tom Segura 16:44 Yeah.

Sean Anders 16:45 And really, it was like... Like you said, it'll be some offhand remark. And then people out there that are judging, uh, they, they, they, they never have anybody walk up and put a camera in their face. And they just think, "Well, I would never say anything like that." It's like, "You don't know what you would say."

Tom Segura 16:57 Yeah.

Sean Anders 16:57 "You're never in that situation." It's bizarre. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:00 It's very bizarre.

Tom Segura 17:01 Yeah, it's super bizarre.

Joe Rogan 17:01 It's, it's very bizarre. So how many of these things did you have to do to promote this film? Because it'll... Because this film is based in-n-n, you know, a l- a large part of it on your actual life experiences of adopting these kids, how many of these things did you have to wind up doing?

Sean Anders 17:17 Uh, uh, a lot 'cause (laughs) I did... Uh, we did our press junket in New York. And I've done junkets, and usually, I do, like, you know, six or seven or 15 or whatever. I did... In two days, I did, like, 90, 95 interviews.

Joe Rogan 17:28 So do the same questions keep coming at you-

Sean Anders 17:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:30 ... over and over again?

Tom Segura 17:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:30 And you start developing these canned r- responses?

Sean Anders 17:33 Well, that's the thing, you have to.

Joe Rogan 17:34 Yeah.

Sean Anders 17:34 And this is the mistake, and this gets back to what you were getting at-

Tom Segura 17:37 Yeah.

Sean Anders 17:37 ... before is that when I would do press on my movies in the past, I'd go to the junket, and people would come in. And they'd ask you more or less the same questions. And I always felt weird because I just felt like, "No, I just want to have a conversation with you."

Joe Rogan 17:49 Yeah.

Sean Anders 17:49 "I don't want to be, like, this disingenuous guy." And then I would be sort of changing up my answers and trying to kind of... And it, it just (laughs) essentially just made it boring, and I wasn't really making any kind of a point whatsoever. So, uh, on, on this one, they were like, "Look, you've got a message with this movie. You've got things you want to get out with this movie. You've gotta learn how to do this."

Joe Rogan 18:08 Mm-hmm.

Sean Anders 18:08 So I went... (laughs) I went to, like, a day of media training, and it was, uh...

Tom Segura 18:13 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:13 Oh. No, you didn't. (laughs)

Tom Segura 18:14 (laughs)

Sean Anders 18:14 I did. I did.

Tom Segura 18:16 That's all he does.

Sean Anders 18:16 And it was... And the worst part was-

Joe Rogan 18:18 (laughs)

Sean Anders 18:18 ... I've done interviews, and I've been fine before.

Tom Segura 18:21 Yeah.

Sean Anders 18:21 But I got this guy sitting across from me, uh, who's, who's interviewing me, doing this mock interview. And then I've got the publicist and my writing partner, and they're just staring at me. And now all of a sudden, I can't do it at all.

Tom Segura 18:31 Right. The pressure's there.

Sean Anders 18:33 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 18:33 (laughs) Who's teaching you? Who's teaching this media training?

Tom Segura 18:37 Well-

Joe Rogan 18:37 Here's the thing-

Tom Segura 18:37 ... were they right away like, "You kinda suck at this job."

Sean Anders 18:39 Yeah, they were. (laughs)

Tom Segura 18:40 They were? (laughs)

Sean Anders 18:40 They absolutely were. I mean, they were really nice about it.

Joe Rogan 18:43 (laughs)

Sean Anders 18:43 But they were like, "Okay. All right. Well, there's some, there's some room for improvement here." (laughs)

Tom Segura 18:47 Oh, my God. Really?

Sean Anders 18:48 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 18:48 Really?

Sean Anders 18:49 No, it was the worst. It was-

Tom Segura 18:50 You seem like a natural. I mean, there's... Wh- what is there to teach you?

Sean Anders 18:53 Well, no. Well, this, this is the thing is I'm really comfortable with this.

Tom Segura 18:56 Yeah.

Sean Anders 18:57 With, with, with us just hanging out here talking.

Tom Segura 18:59 Sure.

Sean Anders 18:59 But this is what I do is I yammer. When I'm... I'm a nervous talker. So you ask me a question, if I'm nervous, I just kinda go and go and go, and people are like, "Jesus." You know?

Joe Rogan 19:09 (laughs)

Sean Anders 19:09 And, uh... (laughs) So...

Tom Segura 19:11 "Man, that guy can talk, man."

Sean Anders 19:13 Yeah. (laughs)

Tom Segura 19:15 (laughs)

Sean Anders 19:15 So the thing is I got this guy sitting across from me, really nice guy, and he's the guy who's coaching me. But... And I know I'm gonna get in trouble-

Joe Rogan 19:21 So does he give you, like, fake interviews?

Sean Anders 19:24 Well, he-

Joe Rogan 19:24 Is that how they coach you?

Sean Anders 19:25 Fir- first, he gave me... He gave me a lot of really good insights. And the funny thing is every rule that he's saying, as he's saying it, I'm going, "Oh, yeah, I do that. Oh, yeah." Like, everything he's saying that I shouldn't be doing, I'm like, "Oh, yeah. That's... I always do." (laughs) So-

Joe Rogan 19:37 Like, what is he saying you shouldn't be doing?

Sean Anders 19:39 I mean, that... The main thing... It's kinda like what we were getting at before, that when somebody's setting a trap for you, 'cause so much of right now media training is just about don't go out and get yourself into trouble by going in and, and just talking about some ridiculous area that... 'Cause that's what people... That's what everybody's trying to do now. Like, just as a for example, I did a Time magazine interview about adoption about a year before we even made the movie.

Tom Segura 20:03 Really?

Sean Anders 20:04 Yeah. They... And it was just because, uh, I was in the process of working on the movie. And anyway, so I... The whole thing was just about adoption in my family and whatever, and it was right when the Harvey Weinstein stuff was blowing up. So l- lady's really nice, interviewing. And then at the end, she says, uh, "Hey, you know, since I'm talking to a Hollywood director, I'd be remiss if I didn't ask, did you know about that Harvey Weinstein stuff?" And I was like, "No." A- and, I mean, it w- And I didn't even think about my answer because I don't, you know... I, I didn't know the guy. I was never around any of it. That's sort of, like, more, like, fancy movies.

Tom Segura 20:34 Yeah.

Sean Anders 20:34 And I was like, "Yeah, uh, no. I don't, I don't know. I never met the guy. Whatever." I didn't think anything of it. I got off the phone, and then I thought, "Oh, she didn't say, 'What do you think about this stuff?'" She said, "Did you know about that stuff?"

Tom Segura 20:46 Mm.

Sean Anders 20:46 And it was like... And, you know-

Joe Rogan 20:48 Yeah, I knew, but I kept it a secret. (laughs)

Sean Anders 20:50 Yeah. (laughs) Yeah, a-

Joe Rogan 20:50 Fuck those people.

Sean Anders 20:51 And I just thought right away-

Joe Rogan 20:53 And I don't. Yeah.

Sean Anders 20:54 ... "Wow."

Tom Segura 20:54 Yeah.

Sean Anders 20:54 I, I just, you know?

Joe Rogan 20:55 Wow.

Sean Anders 20:55 So...

Joe Rogan 20:56 Yeah, it's, it's, it's sneaky. That's a sneaky way of asking.

Tom Segura 20:59 It's a sneaky way to get you too.

Sean Anders 21:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:01 Yeah.

Tom Segura 21:01 So then-

Joe Rogan 21:01 "Did you know?"

Sean Anders 21:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:03 "Yeah, did you know? Well, if you did then are you complicit?"

Tom Segura 21:04 Sean Anders kept his Weinstein secret for years.

Joe Rogan 21:07 Complicit.

Sean Anders 21:07 Well, and I'm such a dumb shit.

Joe Rogan 21:08 Yeah.

Sean Anders 21:08 I would have... Like you said before, I think, I think a year or two ago, I might have made a joke, you know, and been like, "Oh, yeah. I was there," you know?

Tom Segura 21:17 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:17 Yeah.

Sean Anders 21:17 And, like, I would have said something stupid just kidding.

Tom Segura 21:18 And see, that's what they'll print.

Sean Anders 21:19 Yeah.

Tom Segura 21:19 "Sean Anders was there."

Sean Anders 21:20 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:21 Fuck.

Sean Anders 21:21 And then I'd be like, "What? I've never..." (laughs) You know?

Joe Rogan 21:23 Yeah.

Sean Anders 21:23 So, uh, so, you know, a lot of it is just, just to kind of teach you how to just sort of stay on point so that you don't get dragged down these weird roads into these things that just... that people are looking to get you in on clickbait, you know?

Joe Rogan 21:35 So did you bring up that instance when you went through the training?

Sean Anders 21:38 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:39 Did you say, "What should I have said?"

Sean Anders 21:40 (laughs) I think I did. I think... And, and really what they, what they teach you... It was funny 'cause believe it or not, he said, "I'm, I'm gonna show you some clips of, you know, sort of doing it right and doing it wrong."

Joe Rogan 21:51 Oh, they have disaster clips they saved?

Sean Anders 21:52 They, they do. And one of them, and one of... It wasn't-

Tom Segura 21:54 (gasps) Do you have a file that you sent to Jamie before the show was played?

Sean Anders 21:56 Well, you guys will probably all know this one. They showed me a clip of Quentin Tarantino sort of, like, getting really angry with this, with this-

Tom Segura 22:03 Ah. I remember that.

Sean Anders 22:03 ... reporter.

Tom Segura 22:04 Was that the violent thing?

Sean Anders 22:05 Yeah.

Tom Segura 22:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:06 Oh, yeah.

Sean Anders 22:06 I thought it... I thought it was kinda great. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:07 Didn't he threaten to kick some guy's ass?

Tom Segura 22:08 That lady was like, "Your films are disgusting and violent." And he was like, "Yeah, they're fucking movies, dummy."

Sean Anders 22:14 (laughs)

Tom Segura 22:14 Like, he gets really upset about it. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:16 Where was this?

Tom Segura 22:17 In Texas.

Sean Anders 22:17 Actually, I don't know if it's the same one 'cause the one that I saw was a guy.

Tom Segura 22:20 Oh, I saw one with a, a lady. Uh, but that was via sat, like, uh...

Sean Anders 22:23 Oh, okay.

Tom Segura 22:24 So this is a different one then.

Joe Rogan 22:25 There was one with a guy who was threatening to kick the guy's ass.

Sean Anders 22:28 I don't... The one that I saw didn't go that far, but what... (laughs) I actually kinda liked what he said 'cause he was like, "No, I'm not playing that game with you. I'm not doing..." (laughs) and he got all pissed off.

Tom Segura 22:37 Oh.

Sean Anders 22:37 But I was sorta like, "Eh, you know?" (laughs)

Joe Rogan 22:40 I like that he does that.

Tom Segura 22:41 Yeah. I mean, I, I like the one with the lady. The lady is like, "Your movies are so violent and awful," and he's like, "A movie? A make-believe thing? It's not real violence."

Joe Rogan 22:49 (laughs)

Tom Segura 22:49 Like, he really sasses her. It's funny as shit. And then I also-

Joe Rogan 22:52 And where is she? Where was she?

Tom Segura 22:53 It was like...

Joe Rogan 22:54 Who was it for?

Tom Segura 22:54 He was doing... You know. She was, she was like Good Morning Pittsburgh.

Joe Rogan 22:58 Ugh.

Tom Segura 22:58 Like, the entertainment reporter. And then he was actually probably doing, like, satellite stuff everywhere.

Joe Rogan 23:03 Yeah.

Tom Segura 23:03 And he was just like, "You're dumb." So-

Joe Rogan 23:06 Ah. (laughs)

Tom Segura 23:07 But I also saw... There's that guy. He's a got you guy too. Did, uh, Robert Downey Jr.

Joe Rogan 23:13 Mm-hmm.

Tom Segura 23:13 And it was, like, promoting a movie too. I don't know if they showed you that one.

Joe Rogan 23:15 Oh, I saw that one.

Tom Segura 23:16 Right? And the guy's like, "Now, your drug addiction is..." And he was like, "Wait, what?"

Joe Rogan 23:20 Yeah.

Tom Segura 23:20 But it was totally to try to get him-

Sean Anders 23:22 Yeah.

Tom Segura 23:22 ... to, you know... in a moment. And he was like-

Joe Rogan 23:24 And Robert Downey Jr. is not having it. He's like, "Um, I'm here-"

Tom Segura 23:27 Not having it. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:27 "... I'm here to promote a movie."

Tom Segura 23:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:29 "Um, this has nothing to do with that."

Tom Segura 23:31 Totally hates it.

Sean Anders 23:31 Is that what he said?

Joe Rogan 23:32 "But let's, let's get into your drug addiction."

Tom Segura 23:34 Yeah.

Sean Anders 23:35 "Yeah, do-"

Tom Segura 23:35 He was like-

Joe Rogan 23:35 "Yeah, during your darkest times, like at hay."

Tom Segura 23:37 What are you talking about, man? Iron Man's out. I'm not, I'm not here for that.

Joe Rogan 23:41 Yeah. (laughs)

Sean Anders 23:41 (laughs) well, it's just like-

Tom Segura 23:41 He ends at 2:00.

Joe Rogan 23:42 They're so selfish.

Tom Segura 23:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:43 Like, that thing is so... D- doing shit like that is so selfish. It's such a sneaky little thing to do.

Sean Anders 23:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 23:49 You know? They know what they're doing.

Tom Segura 23:49 What do they teach you though, like, in that moment of, like, Quentin? They're just like, "Don't, don't get emotional."

Sean Anders 23:54 Well, it's like, "Don't take the bait."

Tom Segura 23:55 Uh-huh.

Sean Anders 23:56 And, and more than anything for me, because I... Look, I'm from Wisconsin, and I still have that kind of everybody's nice, everybody has good intentions-

Joe Rogan 24:03 Right, right, right.

Sean Anders 24:04 ... kinda vibe, you know? So a- and I had this experience on my very first movie where I, I talked to this reporter 'cause it was a movie about... It was a road trip, you know? "This is a silly-"

Joe Rogan 24:15 Yeah.

Sean Anders 24:15 "... road trip comedy," you know? And I talked to this reporter, and he says... And he, and he was just being... He was being really cool. We were just kinda hanging out after this thing, talking, and he's like... So... And gas prices were really high, and he goes, "So, you..." You know, he's, he's like, "You feel weird about making a, a road trip movie when gas prices are so high?" And I, and I said like, "Uh, I don't know. I... You know, maybe if the movie tanks, I can just blame it on that no one could afford to go to the theater 'cause the prices were so high." And I don't think an-... And then this article comes out that just... It... The guy literally said I was swarthy-looking. (laughs) And it just... He just painted me like an absolute piece of shit.

Tom Segura 24:46 Wow.

Sean Anders 24:47 And I was like, "That guy was so cool." Like, "He was s-"

Joe Rogan 24:50 Yeah.

Sean Anders 24:50 "Like, we were having a great time talking."

Tom Segura 24:52 So nice. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 24:52 Yeah.

Sean Anders 24:52 "And then he just destroyed me."

Joe Rogan 24:54 I've been there.

Tom Segura 24:54 Yeah, I'm sure you guys have... Yeah.

Sean Anders 24:56 (laughs)

Tom Segura 24:56 It's all new to me.

Joe Rogan 24:57 I remember one too that, like, who did it to me.

Tom Segura 25:00 ... like, when I was just doing phone, like a phone interview for press before I was selling any tickets? S- and the guy was, like, just, like, a really nice guy and totally twisted things and, and made it seem like... Just, like, he knows what I was saying and he purposely twisted things around. And then it, it had real no, no impact, but I remember reading that and being like, "Oh, fuck this guy." And, and be careful when you talk to these people because he totally... He knows what I was trying to say. And I, and I read this article and it's like he misrepresented everything.

Sean Anders 25:33 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:34 Well, that's the only way they can have fun.

Tom Segura 25:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:36 And that's the only... I mean, if you're just a normal guy and you give a, you know, normal answers and you're thoughtful and considerate, it... That's not as good for them.

Sean Anders 25:45 Right.

Tom Segura 25:45 It's boring to them.

Sean Anders 25:46 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:46 So they'll twist it around. Well, it's not just... It's not as profitable.

Sean Anders 25:49 Right.

Tom Segura 25:49 Right.

Joe Rogan 25:49 It's more profitable, especially if it's an online thing. With an online thing, you need a clickbait title. You need a bunch of people clicking on that thing 'cause otherwise you're not gonna get any ad revenue for it.

Tom Segura 25:58 Yes.

Sean Anders 25:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 25:58 It's, it's a very bizarre model where it's like encouraging people to be deceptive and to make these things inflammatory.

Sean Anders 26:07 And I gotta say, I mean, look, I did, like I said, I did 90, 95 interviews-

Tom Segura 26:11 Jesus.

Sean Anders 26:12 ... in the s- in the course of two days. And virtually everybody was really cool, really asking really thoughtful, interesting questions. So I don't wanna make it sound like I'm, I'm ripping on the, the whole press over this. But yeah, there are these people. And that's the thing, is that if it was every single person that came along, it would almost be easier because-

Joe Rogan 26:28 Right.

Sean Anders 26:28 ... you could just kind of be like, "Okay, here we go." (laughs)

Tom Segura 26:31 Right, right, right.

Sean Anders 26:31 But you, but you get like 30 really good, you know, uh, reporters with integrity and, and good people, and then-

Tom Segura 26:37 Mm-hmm.

Sean Anders 26:37 ... somebody jumps in and, and you're like, "Oh." You know? And then, then, then they catch you not looking-

Joe Rogan 26:41 Yeah.

Sean Anders 26:41 ... because you're not looking for that guy.

Joe Rogan 26:43 They also get super jaded.

Sean Anders 26:44 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:45 You know? It's almost like cops that have arrested too many people. Everyone's a crook. Like, they, they just think that everybody they're interviewing is a piece of shit. And i- it's also, like, you, they're interviewing these Hollywood people. They're thinking of you, you got a big mansion-

Sean Anders 26:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:56 ... driving a Mercedes.

Tom Segura 26:57 Right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 26:57 You got all this money. Fuck this guy. It's like this instant take on it.

Sean Anders 27:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:01 Oh, a Hollywood director, right?

Sean Anders 27:03 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 27:03 Great. How's your casting couch?

Tom Segura 27:05 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:05 Piece of shit.

Sean Anders 27:06 (laughs)

Tom Segura 27:06 Yeah, that's true.

Joe Rogan 27:07 Instantly.

Tom Segura 27:07 It's true.

Sean Anders 27:08 Yeah.

Tom Segura 27:08 And it becomes the game, I think, too, for them.

Joe Rogan 27:10 Yeah.

Tom Segura 27:10 The game is like, let's see if I can get one today, you know? Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:13 And we should be real clear, this is not most people.

Sean Anders 27:16 Yeah.

Tom Segura 27:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:16 Most people are nice.

Tom Segura 27:17 Yeah.

Sean Anders 27:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:18 But it's just, like, one... Even if it's only one out of 10-

Tom Segura 27:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:21 ... you run into that one, you're like, "Fuck these things, I don't wanna-"

Sean Anders 27:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 27:23 "... do these things anymore."

Tom Segura 27:24 Totally.

Sean Anders 27:24 No, it's terrifying because you think about your family, your friends, like, anybody who's gonna... Because now there, there is this in-

Joe Rogan 27:31 (snaps fingers) .

Sean Anders 27:31 I know you, I know you guys talk about this a lot. There is this culture out there where people are completely reduced to, like, one moment or one statement or whatever it is, and that's all you are, is that-

Joe Rogan 27:42 Yeah.

Sean Anders 27:42 ... whatever that thing that ha- that happened in that one moment. And, and, you know, you see it happening to people all the time. And you think about... So, so when you're there and you feel like you're just a regular guy, you don't feel like, you know, that... It's really scary 'cause you think about your kids and you think of... You know? It's, so it's a, it's a scary situation.

Tom Segura 27:59 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:01 Yeah, well, it's a weird time for these publications too, man. That's, uh, another thing to take into consideration. No one's really buying magazines and newspapers-

Tom Segura 28:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:11 ... like they used to.

Tom Segura 28:12 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:12 It's hard to sell. And so they're reduced to these online publications, and they have to compete with a bunch of these clickbait-y bullshit things, and that's where the money is. I mean, even in New York Times, man. The New York Times is resulting to a lot of clickbait-y shit now, and you're like, "Wow."

Sean Anders 28:28 Well, do you guys have that feeling, like when you're online, that you're on, like, a clickbait diet where you see things-

Tom Segura 28:33 Totally.

Sean Anders 28:33 ... where you're like, "Oh, man, I totally wanna-"

Joe Rogan 28:34 Yeah.

Sean Anders 28:35 "... eat that right now-"

Joe Rogan 28:35 Yeah.

Sean Anders 28:35 "... but, like, I'm not, I'm not gonna do that."

Tom Segura 28:37 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:37 Fuck all that sugar.

Tom Segura 28:39 I'm sadder than that.

Joe Rogan 28:39 Let me look at the ingredients.

Sean Anders 28:40 (laughs)

Tom Segura 28:40 (laughs) Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:40 Open it up. Oh, it's so sweet. (laughs)

Sean Anders 28:43 You click on it, you're like, "Ah."

Tom Segura 28:43 You learn to navigate it now.

Joe Rogan 28:45 Yeah.

Sean Anders 28:45 Right?

Tom Segura 28:46 You g- you read that title and you're like, "I know this will have no substance."

Sean Anders 28:49 Yes.

Tom Segura 28:50 "This is-"

Joe Rogan 28:50 Well, I'm-

Tom Segura 28:50 "... just the headline."

Joe Rogan 28:51 ... I'm fascinated to see where this goes because this didn't exist, right? The, these online clickbait-y things didn't exist 20 years ago.

Tom Segura 28:58 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 28:58 And now they're everywhere. Yeah, it's like, what, what's gonna happen in 10 years? Like, where is it gonna be? Like, where, where is this going?

Sean Anders 29:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:04 I'm very fascinated. You know, very, very fascinated to see-

Sean Anders 29:07 'Cause it feels like a transitional time. It doesn't feel like it can hold out like this forever.

Tom Segura 29:12 That's true.

Joe Rogan 29:12 I agree. Yeah. Yeah, I agree.

Sean Anders 29:14 Because it hurts. Uh, I mean, and this is a, this is the reason why I think podcast culture is coming on strong, uh, because i- it's a place where people just talk and have a conversation, and I think that fear of slipping up and people always, like, out there trying to get you to slip up or whatever has people not, uh, having as much of a free exchange of ideas.

Joe Rogan 29:34 Yeah, you know. But through these podcasts, one thing that does happen is people will take a very small clip out of context-

Sean Anders 29:40 Right.

Joe Rogan 29:40 ... and then write a whole article about that small clip with a big clickbait-y headline, like, "Tom Segura shits all over people in Somalia."

Sean Anders 29:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 29:49 And then, you know, whatever it is. And then-

Sean Anders 29:51 Did you do that?

Joe Rogan 29:51 No.

Tom Segura 29:52 I mean, not... (laughs) Yeah, I'm... It was-

Sean Anders 29:53 (laughs) Good job.

Tom Segura 29:53 ... a different city. Yeah.

Sean Anders 29:54 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 29:55 I just-

Sean Anders 29:55 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 29:55 ... made something up. But then, you know, it could be, uh, it's completely out of context.

Sean Anders 30:00 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:00 And, and over, you know, uh, uh, giant overall discussion of a to- of a topic that took place over 45 minutes. And they'll take 30 seconds of that and put a YouTube clip up, and then you get a bunch of angry people tweeting at you.

Tom Segura 30:13 That's true. That's true. But the o- uh, the flip side of it is that I feel like in this time, we're developing more of an audience that is quick to call that shit out.

Joe Rogan 30:23 Mm-hmm.

Tom Segura 30:24 So, like, while there are gonna be people that take the bait and be like, "What is it?" And get, uh, angry, there's a bunch of people who are, like, really quick to recognize that that's taken out of context.

Joe Rogan 30:33 Well, it's because people like you and I and a lot of other people that do podcasts talk about that-

Tom Segura 30:38 Right.

Joe Rogan 30:38 ... all the time.

Tom Segura 30:39 Right.

Joe Rogan 30:39 So people hear it all the time and they see the examples of it and they go, "Wow, that's crazy."

Tom Segura 30:43 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:43 Like some, some of it is so egregious. You're like-

Tom Segura 30:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:45 ... you, you're a piece of shit. Like someone should pull your license.

Tom Segura 30:48 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:48 Like if you were a doctor, they'd full- pull your fucking license.

Tom Segura 30:51 Right.

Joe Rogan 30:51 But as a journalist, there's like a l- lot of wiggle room with being a piece of shit.

Tom Segura 30:55 Yeah, there is. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 30:57 (laughs)

Sean Anders 30:57 (laughs) Yeah.

Tom Segura 30:57 Yeah.

Sean Anders 30:57 Yeah, but this is where-

Joe Rogan 30:58 And I use the word journalist, air quotes.

Tom Segura 31:00 These, the podcast, this, this medium is just gonna grow and, and people...... are embracing more this long form conversation-

Sean Anders 31:08 Well-

Tom Segura 31:08 ... you know, and understanding things by talking about it for a while.

Sean Anders 31:11 Well, and the other part of it that I think p- that gets lost sometimes is that, you know, like right now, we're talking about, like, journalists.

Tom Segura 31:18 Mm-hmm.

Sean Anders 31:18 But the great journalists are just as hurt by this- this stuff-

Tom Segura 31:22 Yes.

Sean Anders 31:23 ... as- as everyone because the people that are really out there being thoughtful, really researching their material, really talking to people, getting to the bottom of things, that whole journalistic work ethic that we all grew up hearing about-

Tom Segura 31:34 Yeah.

Sean Anders 31:35 ... tho- those people are just as threatened by this cheap, the sort of attack journalism that happens because they can't even compete with it, with a- with a really thoughtful well-researched story.

Tom Segura 31:45 I know. Yeah.

Sean Anders 31:45 And then somebody's like, "He touched a boob." And then there's like-

Tom Segura 31:48 Yeah.

Sean Anders 31:48 ... they get all the clicks, you know. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 31:50 I was, uh, talking to Matt Taibbi who's a real journalist. And Matt Taibbi was t- discussing the pieces that he wrote on Wall Street and, uh, the, um, the crash of 2008 and all the fucking shenanigans that went on with that and how- how much just crazy shit they're allowed to do and what they can't. And what a Ponzi scheme a- a lot of that 2008 crash was. And y- you, when I was talking to him, I realized, like, he had put a year into research.

Sean Anders 32:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 32:21 Uh, learning. Like he did not come from a- a background in finance. So he put a year into researching all the aspects of the savings and loan crisis, all the aspects of the- the- the- this mortgage crisis-

Tom Segura 32:34 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 32:34 ... and how it took place and how they were- how they were making money off of this and how they were, you know, betting on things falling apart and moving money around and how fucking chaotic it is and how crazy it is. And then you think of how much time put on that and then in proportion how few people actually read that and how little it affected the- the actual economy itself. Like how- how little things changed and how little people were outraged. Like his article, I don't know if you've ever read the Rolling Stone piece on it.

Tom Segura 33:03 Mm-mm.

Joe Rogan 33:04 Fucking amazing. But you don't-

Tom Segura 33:07 He worked on that for-

Joe Rogan 33:08 Forever!

Tom Segura 33:08 Yeah.

Sean Anders 33:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:09 But you don't care that much about it.

Tom Segura 33:12 Right.

Sean Anders 33:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:12 You know what I mean? It's like those people never went to jail. The billions of dollars just, just disappeared. It all got moved around and everybody abracadabra and they moved the cape high.

Tom Segura 33:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:25 Ta-da! And then it moves on. And you know, and he details it in this amazing way and you realize like, wow, how many of those guys are left? How many of those real journalists are- are left?

Tom Segura 33:38 Right.

Joe Rogan 33:38 And this is a, I mean, it- you have to invest in something like that. I mean he's putting a year into just researching what this is all about.

Sean Anders 33:47 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:47 It's fucking insane. I mean and then instead, you know, it's like, uh, Kim Kardashian got her butt done again. Boom.

Tom Segura 33:55 Boom.

Joe Rogan 33:55 50 times more people are paying attention to that.

Tom Segura 33:57 To that.

Joe Rogan 33:57 Well, let me ask you this, because I think in a weird way, this weird time that we're in right now could actually be the rebirth of that kind of journalism that you're talking about. Because I know that- that when- when everything was getting kind of crazy and people were, you know, we're talking about all this, I did, uh, subscribe to some, you know, like the online version of some papers because I thought, ah, I do want to support people-

Tom Segura 34:23 Support it. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:23 ... that are actually-

Tom Segura 34:25 Yes.

Joe Rogan 34:25 ... you know people with integrity that are out there chasing stories and- Yeah, I do that. Yeah.

Tom Segura 34:29 ... informing the world, you know, helping us out, you know.

Sean Anders 34:32 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:32 Also they fuck you over if you don't do it. You can't-

Tom Segura 34:34 Can't read.

Joe Rogan 34:34 You get like 10 New York Times articles-

Tom Segura 34:36 Yeah.

Sean Anders 34:36 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:36 ... and they cut you off. You're like-

Tom Segura 34:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:37 ... "Oh, you bitch."

Tom Segura 34:38 Now you have to subscribe.

Sean Anders 34:39 (laughs) Subscribe.

Tom Segura 34:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:41 Yeah. Good for you though, you know? I mean, kind of have to. I wish it was a little easier to do though and set it up with Apple one click or some shit, you know?

Sean Anders 34:50 Yeah, I think it is now.

Joe Rogan 34:52 Mm-hmm.

Tom Segura 34:52 Yeah, it's kind of a pain. I don't get that why I- I subscribe to a few of them.

Joe Rogan 34:56 Mm-hmm.

Tom Segura 34:57 And if I go to the app, obviously everything's fine. But if I try to read it through another link, it's like, "Oh, you already..." I'm like-

Sean Anders 35:03 Yeah.

Tom Segura 35:03 ... "I'm a subscribe." I don't know, it's kind of annoying.

Joe Rogan 35:05 Yeah.

Sean Anders 35:05 Yeah, yeah, because then you got to jump into the app-

Tom Segura 35:07 Yeah.

Sean Anders 35:07 ... and then find the story again and that stuff.

Tom Segura 35:10 It's annoying. Which is uh...

Joe Rogan 35:10 But I get it. I mean they have to figure out some way to generate a revenue.

Tom Segura 35:14 They... And this whole, these last two years have been huge for the subscriptions on those. I mean like grown by millions, you know. As- as print paper has gone down, those online subscriptions have gone way, way up.

Joe Rogan 35:29 Really?

Tom Segura 35:29 Oh yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:30 Yeah?

Tom Segura 35:30 Oh yeah. Definitely.

Joe Rogan 35:30 So they're profitable?

Tom Segura 35:32 Definitely. Definitely.

Joe Rogan 35:33 Hmm.

Tom Segura 35:33 I mean I just saw that whoever the editor in chief of, uh, New York Time's doing an art- an interview about like their recent subscription model, it was impressive. I mean, it really went high.

Joe Rogan 35:45 Well, if you do good work and- and I mean there's people out there that have a hunger for actual real journalism.

Tom Segura 35:50 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:51 And- And also in-depth intelligent comprehensive understandings of what is happening.

Tom Segura 35:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 35:58 Like a real- real, uh, uh, well-researched take-

Tom Segura 36:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 36:03 ... on a particular situation.

Tom Segura 36:05 When somebody does it like that guy did about like the subprime mortgage-

Joe Rogan 36:08 Mm-hmm.

Tom Segura 36:09 ... like, you know, and they spent all that time and they write that story. I mean it's like reading a, like a good book.

Joe Rogan 36:15 Yeah.

Sean Anders 36:15 Yeah.

Tom Segura 36:15 You just can't stop reading it. I mean did you read that Dirty John story in- in the LA Times?

Joe Rogan 36:20 What is that?

Tom Segura 36:21 Man, and now they're making a, they have like a miniseries coming out about it. I remember reading it and not being able to stop reading it. And it was like an eight part series in the LA Times about this guy who was a sociopath who would go on to dating sites and basically bait women-

Joe Rogan 36:41 Oh.

Tom Segura 36:41 ... who were like divorcees who had some money. He was posturing as a doctor and like would pretend to have this really successful life and just be a pariah that would like suck onto these people. And this story went-... really deep about how this guy found this woman. Her daughters were like grown daughters, immediately suspected things were wrong.

Joe Rogan 37:04 Oh.

Tom Segura 37:04 She didn't see it, but the story unravels the way like a good book or like a thriller would, you know, would unravel i- in the theater. So you're just like, r- like the guy, you know, he researched it. I forget his name. They turned it into a podcast and then now it's coming out as a, like a, a short series.

Joe Rogan 37:22 That's the guy?

Tom Segura 37:22 That's the guy. That's the real guy.

Joe Rogan 37:24 Wow.

Tom Segura 37:24 Ca- it's Christopher Goffard, and man, so it would be like s- part one in this series. You'd read this and you're like, "All right, all right, where's part..." Like you're like scrambling to read the next part.

Joe Rogan 37:33 That's freaking me out because he's moving, like his image is moving slowly. Oh, yeah. Slowly pulling away.

Tom Segura 37:39 That's the real guy.

Joe Rogan 37:40 Just like-

Tom Segura 37:41 It's a fascinating read.

Joe Rogan 37:42 Wow. So-

Tom Segura 37:42 And I recommend reading it, man. I mean it is really good.

Joe Rogan 37:46 So was this guy, uh, a career g- th-

Tom Segura 37:49 Criminal.

Joe Rogan 37:49 ... criminal? Yeah.

Tom Segura 37:49 He was a career criminal that hid it well, but, um, you know, it's, it's interesting that I remember reading it and, and you're, you're kind of fascinated how the daughters know. Like they just know and they're, they keep going back to like-

Joe Rogan 38:03 Mm.

Tom Segura 38:03 ... this doesn't add up.

Joe Rogan 38:04 Right.

Tom Segura 38:04 But she's kinda lost in the love and attention and excitement-

Joe Rogan 38:07 Right, of course.

Tom Segura 38:07 ... of this relationship.

Joe Rogan 38:09 And he's just preying on her.

Tom Segura 38:10 He is preying on her.

Joe Rogan 38:11 And he empties her account? Spoiler alert?

Tom Segura 38:13 It, I don't even wanna give it away, man. It's so good.

Joe Rogan 38:15 Okay, don't give it away. I'll read it.

Tom Segura 38:15 It's so good. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:17 Is it a, it's, you can get it right now? You just-

Tom Segura 38:19 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 38:19 Do you have a subscription or did you-

Tom Segura 38:20 Uh, it's like it's a podcast. There's a bunch of articles about how big it got released in podcast and LA Times. There's all sorts of stories about it.

Joe Rogan 38:27 Yeah. Well, there's still, I mean, for all the people that are into just short attention span, clickbait nonsense, there's still a- an, there's some sort of a market for-

Tom Segura 38:40 For real journalism, yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:41 ... for actual, real, real stories and real journalism. And that's what I, I would say that that's what most of it is out there. It's just that we get the, so much of, I mean there's s- there's such a stockpile of that stuff every day, but when it comes to the actual stories that you're reading, I don't know, maybe I'm Pollyanna about it, but I feel like there's, (laughs) there's a lot of great stuff out there. I think there's g- there's plenty of great stuff. When you think about the actual amount of content versus how much time you actually have to read.

Tom Segura 39:05 Sure.

Joe Rogan 39:05 There is great stuff.

Tom Segura 39:06 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:07 But if you looked at the overwhelming appetite that people have for media, it's for nonsense. Yeah.

Tom Segura 39:13 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:13 The, like I was watching The Wendy Williams Show.

Tom Segura 39:16 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:16 I've, I've never watched that show before. Jesus Christ, I was watching that show. First of all, there was a girl in the audience that had a crown on.

Tom Segura 39:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:23 It was hilarious. The audience alone, like he, they should have one half of the screen-

Tom Segura 39:26 Was she marrying herself?

Joe Rogan 39:28 (laughs)

Tom Segura 39:28 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:28 She wasn't. (laughs)

Tom Segura 39:31 (laughs)

39:31 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:31 Tom and I were at, at a restaurant last night and the lady had just gotten married to herself. It was-

Tom Segura 39:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:36 And we were both like-

Tom Segura 39:37 We found out-

Joe Rogan 39:38 ... we're keeping it together.

Tom Segura 39:39 We were like, "What's going on over there?" And then someone was like, "She's marrying herself. This is her ceremony." And we're like-

Joe Rogan 39:43 Jesus Christ.

Tom Segura 39:44 Okay. You never see guys doing that. I'll tell you this much.

39:47 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 39:47 Yeah. And my, my oldest daughter went over and hugged her and gr- my oldest daughter's the sweetest person in the world.

Tom Segura 39:52 Yeah, yeah.

39:52 (laughs)

39:53 She was like, she's so sweet that the lady who married herself was like, "Your daughter's very sweet."

Joe Rogan 39:58 (laughs)

Tom Segura 39:58 (laughs)

39:58 She wanted to marry her. (laughs)

40:00 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:00 She's like, "Listen, I'm married to myself, but I'll marry you too."

Tom Segura 40:02 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:03 Let's marry everybody. Yeah, um, but, uh, what were we just talking about? Um, what/ how did you-

Tom Segura 40:09 Oh, you said Wendy Williams.

Joe Rogan 40:10 Oh, Wendy Williams Show.

Tom Segura 40:11 The Wendy Williams Show. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:11 Oh my goodness. Oh, is that when she fell down?

Tom Segura 40:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:15 Yeah. She had, she had a moment on the show where she fainted and fell down.

Tom Segura 40:16 You know what, have you seen, have you seen the, when I saw when Aretha died, that Aretha had done an interview with Wendy Williams one time and it was fucking hilarious.

Joe Rogan 40:26 Why was it hilarious?

Tom Segura 40:26 Because, uh, Aretha Franklin was sassing her a bunch.

Joe Rogan 40:29 Oh, really?

Tom Segura 40:29 Like, like a OG sassing.

Joe Rogan 40:31 Right.

Tom Segura 40:31 It was really, really funny, man. (laughs) I don't know if you've seen it, but she's just like, like, uh, Wendy's like, "I have an idea for this project," whatever, and Aretha's like, "Mm-hmm." And she was like, uh, "So you wanna go in on it?" And, uh, Aretha's like, "You gonna write a check?" And she's like, uh, "I was thinking you could." She's like, "Oh, you ain't got it, huh? You ain't got the money? That's what I thought." She just turns around on her. It's so funny, man.

Joe Rogan 40:52 Wow.

Tom Segura 40:52 It's hilarious.

Joe Rogan 40:54 (laughs)

Tom Segura 40:54 Aretha Franklin just so, just owns it, you know? She's been around.

Joe Rogan 40:58 Yeah.

Tom Segura 40:58 She was like not having it at all.

Joe Rogan 41:00 Well all the show is is Wendy Williams talking shit about people and all the girls in the audience are going, "Mm-mm. Mm-hmm. Mm." They're talking about people getting custody and oh, she breaking up with her.

Tom Segura 41:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:13 And it's like, wow, that's what, there's a lot of people out there that have an appetite for this stuff.

Tom Segura 41:17 For that. For sure.

Joe Rogan 41:18 And including me obviously.

Tom Segura 41:20 I mean how long did-

Joe Rogan 41:20 I fucking sat there.

Tom Segura 41:21 (laughs) Look at-

Joe Rogan 41:22 I'm Pat Marshall watching it like, "Oh, what's gonna happen with the kids?"

Tom Segura 41:23 Look how long, uh, Jerry Springer stayed on the air.

Joe Rogan 41:25 Yeah.

Tom Segura 41:26 Right? Like-

Joe Rogan 41:26 Yeah.

Tom Segura 41:27 ... that was a fucking 30 plus year run or something.

Joe Rogan 41:30 You know what's fucked up about that? Jerry Springer's a smart guy.

Tom Segura 41:32 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:33 He's a smart guy. I, I used to listen to him on the Opie and Anthony Show. I was like, "Whoa. Wait a minute. That's-"

Tom Segura 41:37 He was the mayor of Cincinnati.

Joe Rogan 41:38 Yeah, he was the mayor. Mayor of Cincinnati. Got busted paying for a prostitute with a check.

Tom Segura 41:42 So, we all slip up from time to time.

41:45 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:45 That's how he got caught.

Tom Segura 41:46 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:46 Which is hilarious.

Tom Segura 41:47 It is.

Joe Rogan 41:47 Like, like, "Checking this account in, okay. Uh, da, da, da."

Tom Segura 41:49 When I write you a check ... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:51 "Lexus? Who's Lexus?" (laughs)

Tom Segura 41:53 (laughs) Yeah, it's pretty crazy man.

Joe Rogan 41:58 Yeah, uh, it's, uh, I don't know. There's, I think there's plenty... What is that? Is that him?

Tom Segura 42:03 Yeah.

42:03 Wow.

Joe Rogan 42:04 Wow.

Tom Segura 42:04 He was the mayor.

Joe Rogan 42:04 That's when he was the mayor? A young fella.

Tom Segura 42:06 I never saw him looking like that.

Joe Rogan 42:06 It looks like he's like 40 years old back then. Um, but it's just, it's bizarre how prevalent that that stuff is online. I mean it's just there's so much, there's so much clickbait-y nonsense. It's hard, but there's, there's plenty of good journalism. There's plenty of good writing.

Tom Segura 42:24 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 42:24 Well, I, I mean, again, like I said, when it, when I was doing the, (laughs) my, my limited experience in doing this...

Sean Anders 42:30 ... the vast, vast, vast majority of the people that I've been talking to have been really interested in just talking about adoption and really interested in foster care and all that-

Joe Rogan 42:37 Mm-hmm.

Sean Anders 42:37 ... kind of stuff. And it's been great. It's been great talking, talking to everybody. And I think that when you have a topic like that too, it helps, because (laughs) they're, they're not really trying to, to crush you as much when you're-

Joe Rogan 42:47 Yeah. Right.

Sean Anders 42:47 ... you know, when you're talking to them about kids who need families and homes and that kind of thing.

Joe Rogan 42:50 Right, right, right. Yeah, yeah. They have to be careful with letting their piece of shit claws out.

Sean Anders 42:56 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:58 (laughs)

Tom Segura 42:58 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:58 Now, you said that your experience with adopting three kids started out as a nightmare.

Sean Anders 43:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:04 Like, how did it start out as a nightmare?

Sean Anders 43:05 Well, it goes into it... You know, do, do... You know you have friends that, that join the military and when they're in high school, they think they're really tough, and they're like, "Yeah, yeah, it's gonna be awesome." And then they go to boot camp, and then they're like, "Oh, shit, this is-"

Joe Rogan 43:16 Yeah.

Sean Anders 43:16 "... really hard." And then they get on top of it, and then they're, and then they're good again, you know?

Joe Rogan 43:19 Right.

Sean Anders 43:19 But they have to go through that transition of like, "Oh, man, maybe I'm not as tough as I thought I was."

Joe Rogan 43:23 Right.

Sean Anders 43:23 And then they get tough.

Joe Rogan 43:24 Right.

Sean Anders 43:24 And-

Joe Rogan 43:25 So you never had any kids.

Sean Anders 43:26 I never had any kids.

Joe Rogan 43:27 Had a dog. You've-

Sean Anders 43:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:28 ... done the dog thing.

Sean Anders 43:29 Did the dog thing. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:30 So you know how to take care of, uh, in a very small way.

Sean Anders 43:33 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:33 I had a friend who said that to me. He's like, "Well, I've had a dog."

Sean Anders 43:37 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:37 He was talking about having a kid.

Sean Anders 43:38 I've heard that a lot.

Joe Rogan 43:39 I'm like, "I'll fucking kill you with a rock." (laughs)

Sean Anders 43:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:41 "You better not compare the two." (laughs) That's so stupid.

Sean Anders 43:44 Yeah, and we... No, we, we went from, y- you know, zero kids. And you kind of think, "Well, I babysat my sister's kids and that kind of thing."

Joe Rogan 43:52 For how long?

Sean Anders 43:52 And n- yeah, that's, that's the-

Joe Rogan 43:54 A movie question.

Sean Anders 43:55 ... question right there.

Joe Rogan 43:55 It went to a whole movie.

Sean Anders 43:56 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:57 (laughs)

Tom Segura 43:58 Two-hour movie.

Sean Anders 43:58 Or, and, and even what happens is, you go... So, so for us, we, we had a really interesting experience where we went to an adoption fair. And that's, that's in the movie. It's a real thing where they... Because they, you know, their, their budgets are stretched so tight that they, they'll have these outdoor events. Not every county has them, but LA County has them, where you, uh-

Joe Rogan 44:19 (laughs)

Sean Anders 44:19 ... where they'll br- bring a bunch of kids that are, that are in the system and a bunch of, uh, prospective parents. And they'll just have like games and stuff going on. It's a really bizarre event. And we went, you know, and you're there to meet kids, you know, to meet your kids. And, uh, so we went there, and we didn't want to have anything to do with teenagers because ... And that ... You know, just because we were scared. We thought, "We're, we're not ready for that." We just want to find like some-

Joe Rogan 44:42 Little kids.

Sean Anders 44:42 ... cute little kid that we can (laughs) you know-

Joe Rogan 44:44 Yeah, help out.

Sean Anders 44:44 And, uh, and then the teenagers are all off to the side because everybody's afraid of them.

Joe Rogan 44:50 Ugh.

Sean Anders 44:50 And it's the most heartbreaking thing you've ever seen 'cause they know why they're there. Like, they chose to be there, and they know that everybody's scared of them.

Joe Rogan 44:57 Right.

Sean Anders 44:57 So I was there, and I was like, "Oh my God, this is the worst thing I've ever seen." And we ended up sort of inadvertently meeting this teenage girl and her brother and sister. And just, they just seemed cool, and they just seemed like really good kids and just scared, scared, scared. But we wrote them down on our sheet and just, again, not what we- (laughs)

Tom Segura 45:16 Yeah.

Sean Anders 45:16 ... what we had planned on when we did this, but we wrote them down on our sheet. And we went home knowing they were gonna match us with them 'cause no one else was gonna put them down. And we, we get home, and we find out, yes, you've been matched with these kids. And we're like, "Okay, here we go." We're gonna have, you know, we're gonna have a teenager.

Joe Rogan 45:31 How old?

Sean Anders 45:32 Uh, they were 16, 13, and 11.

Joe Rogan 45:34 Oof.

Sean Anders 45:35 Yeah. (laughs) I know.

Tom Segura 45:36 Whoa.

Sean Anders 45:37 So, so we're, we're, you know, kind of wrapping our heads around this-

Joe Rogan 45:40 Yeah.

Sean Anders 45:40 ... over the next couple weeks. And we, we got to the place where we were like, "Okay, you know, we can do this." And then we got a call from the social worker, and she said, "You know, um, it's, it's not gonna work out with them. The, uh, they've been in the system for four years. The girl, she's really holding out hope that her mom is coming for her, so she's refusing the placement."

Joe Rogan 46:00 (sighs)

Sean Anders 46:00 And so we tried to... And, and I was like, I was... You know, when you hear that, it's so... Uh, y- just the same reaction you guys just had. So my wife and I wrote an, uh, a letter to send through the, the social workers just saying, "Hey, look, we get it. If you maybe, you guys just wanna come and just do the foster thing, or, you know, however you want to do it." And we s- we, we just sort of sent the letter off. We didn't hear anything. And then she came back and she just said, "Yeah, it's not gonna happen." And then she very matter-of-factly just said, "But there's these other three kids." And those kids are my kids now, who I love more than anything in the world (laughs) .

Tom Segura 46:35 R- real- And that's, that's how it... In that conversation-

Sean Anders 46:37 And that's how it started-

Tom Segura 46:37 ... she was like, "There's another three."

Sean Anders 46:38 ... it was just like, "There's these other three kids."

Tom Segura 46:39 Wow.

Sean Anders 46:39 And we were like, "Oh, oh, all right." And you, you want there to be... Or I shouldn't say you. I mean, I wanted there to be a certain amount of randomness, like when you have, you know, biological kids. You don't know what you're gonna get.

Tom Segura 46:49 Yeah.

Sean Anders 46:50 And going to that, that event where you're s- sort of like meeting kids, and it, it feels weird. And so when she said there's these other three kids, we said okay. And then they turned out to be younger, you know, six, three, and 18 months. Um, but I never forgot meeting that, that girl and her brother and sister. So when the t- when the time came that we were gonna make a movie about it, I really... That was the genesis of the Lizzie character, was that-

Joe Rogan 47:13 Mm-hmm.

Tom Segura 47:13 Right.

Sean Anders 47:14 ... I wanted to make sure there was a teenager in this movie because they're, they're so misunderstood. And in the process, I went out and met with a bunch of families that had adopted teen girls, and then met with a lot of those girls who, some of whom are grown up and some of whom are still, you know, uh, with their families. And, and this is the thing. You know, the s- the scariness that we're all talking about. Every one of these families that I met with, just great stories. Like amazing great stories, like hard times, you know, try- trying to make that connection and whatever. But, but everybody with the same story, wouldn't have it any other way, changed our life for the better, met these incredible kids. And, uh ...

Tom Segura 47:54 Hm.

Sean Anders 47:54 This is... Yeah, and now I'm yammering. But (laughs) I-

Joe Rogan 47:56 (laughs)

Tom Segura 47:57 No.

Joe Rogan 47:57 No, no, you're not yammering at all.

Tom Segura 47:58 Okay.

Joe Rogan 47:58 How, how old are they now? How many years have you had them?

Sean Anders 48:02 Uh, almost seven years. So my son Johnny just turned 13.

Joe Rogan 48:05 Wow.

Sean Anders 48:05 My daughter's nine, and my, my other son is eight. And, um-

Tom Segura 48:09 How, how long was it between the phone call of like, "I have these other three kids," and you actually getting them in your house?

Sean Anders 48:16 Um ... God, what was it? It was, it was a couple of weeks because there was-

Tom Segura 48:20 A couple of weeks? That's it?

Sean Anders 48:22 Yeah, no, it wasn't long at all.

Tom Segura 48:23 Whoa.

Sean Anders 48:24 But, uh, yeah. It was... 'Cause, 'cause they called and they said, "We have these other three kids." And then, uh, and then there was gonna be a meeting because they, they-... they won't tell you much about the kids until, until they really sit down with you. And then, they kind of walk through like, "Here's, you know, whatever trauma, here's whatever-"

Tom Segura 48:41 Mm-hmm.

Sean Anders 48:41 "... you know, kind of..."

Tom Segura 48:41 (laughs)

Sean Anders 48:41 So, and again, they don't, for in our case, they don't have all the information, obviously, on their pasts.

Tom Segura 48:46 Right.

Sean Anders 48:47 So they can kind of tell you like, "Here's how they came into the system-"

Tom Segura 48:48 What they know.

Sean Anders 48:49 "... and that, that kind of thing." So I wasn't able to go because I was, I was, I was at a work thing. And so my wife went to the meeting, and I was like listening to it, you know, and I was on speakerphone in the meeting. And, uh, (laughs) and there was this one moment, you know, and she's telling us everything. And there's this one moment where she slides the picture across to my wife (laughs) .

Tom Segura 49:08 Mm-hmm.

Sean Anders 49:08 And says, "Here's a picture of them." And there's this long pause, and my wife goes, "Oh, they're cute." (laughs) But they didn't sound cute by the inflection (laughs) in their voice. And you know, you're-

Tom Segura 49:17 (laughs)

Sean Anders 49:17 ... you're trying not to be-

Tom Segura 49:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:19 (laughs)

Sean Anders 49:19 ... you're, you're trying not to be that guy, you know, that you're like-

Tom Segura 49:21 So you're like, "Wait, what do they look like?" (laughs)

Sean Anders 49:23 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:23 (laughs)

Sean Anders 49:23 But, but, you know, you don't wanna be shallow about it.

Tom Segura 49:25 Sure.

Sean Anders 49:25 I mean, k- kids are kids, and you know you're gonna fall in love with them regardless. But, you know, like you kind of, everybody wants to think their own kids are cute, whatever. So i- it was funny, and then when I saw the picture, the picture was, it was just a weird, bad picture of the kids. Like my son, who was six at the time, looked like he was 11, and he looked (laughs) like this... And it was just the look on his face and whatever.

Joe Rogan 49:43 Looked hard?

Sean Anders 49:44 Yeah, he looked (laughs) he looked hard and a little s-

Joe Rogan 49:45 Yeah.

Sean Anders 49:46 And, and we go over to the house, and these kids are adorable. So, oh, so this is, sorry, I'm getting ahead of myself. So, so when you, so we have the meeting, and we go, "Okay, we're gonna go meet with them." And just to be clear, we didn't say okay because of the picture. (laughs)

Tom Segura 49:58 (laughs)

Sean Anders 49:58 Because the picture was kind of like neither here nor there, you know?

Tom Segura 50:00 Right.

Sean Anders 50:00 We were just like, "All right, let's go meet these kids." So we go to the house, and these kids are adorable.

Tom Segura 50:06 Mm-hmm.

Sean Anders 50:06 And, and it's the weirdest thing ever 'cause you go to this foster home where they live, and you play with them for like two hours. And when do you ever play with any kids for two straight hours?

Tom Segura 50:19 Mm-hmm.

Sean Anders 50:19 Like actually actively play with kids, especially kids you've never met before. (laughs)

Tom Segura 50:23 Sure.

Sean Anders 50:24 So it's exhausting-

Tom Segura 50:25 Yeah.

Sean Anders 50:25 ... and it's weird. And, and we touch on this in the movie that I was really scared when we were getting there 'cause I wanted so much to walk in, see these kids, well up with tears, know it's for real, know these are my kids-

Tom Segura 50:38 Right.

Sean Anders 50:38 ... and just have that like cosmic connection moment, and that didn't happen at all. Like I-

Joe Rogan 50:44 It's more weird, right?

Sean Anders 50:45 It's so weird.

Tom Segura 50:45 Like, "Who are you?"

Joe Rogan 50:46 "I'm gonna live with you."

Sean Anders 50:48 Yeah. And well, the, the, and the-

Joe Rogan 50:49 (laughs)

Sean Anders 50:49 ... the little kids are just kind of like, "Th- this is..." No, it's actually weird in the other direction. They're so used to kind of being passed around-

Tom Segura 50:56 Mm-hmm.

Sean Anders 50:56 ... that they're just kind of like, "Oh, okay, who are these people now?"

Tom Segura 50:58 Oh, right.

Joe Rogan 50:59 Wow.

Sean Anders 50:59 You know? And so we get in there, and then the, the foster mom in our case was like, uh, "Go to your mom and dad." And I was like, "Oh, don't do that."

Joe Rogan 51:08 Whoa.

Sean Anders 51:08 "Don't do that."

Tom Segura 51:08 Whoa, whoa.

Sean Anders 51:09 "That's, don't say that" (laughs) You know?

Joe Rogan 51:10 Slow your roll, lady.

Sean Anders 51:12 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:12 (laughs)

Sean Anders 51:12 'Cause it just felt so obtrusive to the kids, you know?

Tom Segura 51:14 Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:14 Yeah.

Sean Anders 51:15 And so we, we would go there every day for five straight days. We, we would go there when the kids were off school, and we, we'd go and play with them first in the backyard. And then, you take them to the park, and then you take them to the park, and you take them out for ice cream. And you're just kind of like getting to know these kids that are strangers.

Joe Rogan 51:30 Did you try to change their names?

Sean Anders 51:32 Uh, yeah, first day. As soon as we walked in, I was like, "You're-" (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:34 Toss them out the... You're Mike now. (laughs)

Sean Anders 51:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:36 (laughs)

Tom Segura 51:36 (laughs)

Sean Anders 51:38 No, we didn't do that. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:40 Of course.

Sean Anders 51:40 (laughs) But-

Joe Rogan 51:40 The little one wouldn't even know though, dude. In a year and half.

Sean Anders 51:42 Yeah, that's true.

Tom Segura 51:43 That is true.

Joe Rogan 51:44 That is true.

Tom Segura 51:45 No memory.

Joe Rogan 51:45 This, this memory...

Sean Anders 51:45 You know what? A lot of re- a lot of people do. In fact, a lot of kids, a lot of the older kids that sort of have that will, will wanna change their name, not just their last name.

Joe Rogan 51:53 For a new fresh start?

Sean Anders 51:55 Yeah, that they'll just want to, you know-

Joe Rogan 51:57 They do?

Tom Segura 51:57 Really?

Sean Anders 51:57 I thought... Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 51:58 That makes sense.

Sean Anders 51:59 I, I don't have any experience with that, but I've heard that, that sometimes-

Tom Segura 52:01 Wow.

Sean Anders 52:01 ... kids will choose to... Uh, there was a, a young lady that was at the screening last night who was, who, her picture is at the end of the movie. And she's like, she's in Ireland getting her PhD right now, this girl-

Joe Rogan 52:12 Wow.

Sean Anders 52:12 ... that these people adopted out of foster care. And she's, she's amazing.

Tom Segura 52:15 Yeah.

Sean Anders 52:16 And, and she, she had c- chosen to change her name.

Joe Rogan 52:19 Wow.

Sean Anders 52:19 And, uh...

Joe Rogan 52:19 Yeah, I mean, that seems like it would mean something.

Tom Segura 52:22 Yeah. Now that I think about it, it just seems, you know, changing a name-

Sean Anders 52:26 Yeah.

Tom Segura 52:26 ... is, especially as a teen. But I mean, I get it if you're saying like, "I wanna put everything in the past, just start over."

Joe Rogan 52:31 Yeah, you want a, a fresh start, really lock it down. This is the new me.

Tom Segura 52:36 Right.

Joe Rogan 52:36 This is my new life.

Tom Segura 52:36 I'm Kobe Bryant, I used to be number eight, I'm 24 now.

Sean Anders 52:39 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 52:42 It is... (laughs)

Sean Anders 52:42 Well, and that touches on something that is really difficult when you're doing this as an adoptive parent is that you're trying to walk this line all the time, where y- you know, you, you need to claim these kids for your own. You need to be the person who's like, "Y- you're with us." Like, "We're, we're, we're with you. We got your back. We're behind you." Like you, you, you need to do that. That's what these kids don't have-

Joe Rogan 53:03 Right.

Sean Anders 53:03 ... this thing that we all take for granted.

Joe Rogan 53:05 Right.

Sean Anders 53:05 We have these parents that love us no matter what knucklehead things we do. So you're trying to do that, but at the same time, you're trying not to impose your world on them because they're coming into it with their own, you know, personality and their own-

Joe Rogan 53:18 Right.

Sean Anders 53:18 ... culture or whatever it is that behind them. So you're always trying to kind of be careful and walk this line between just, just completely bringing them in, but not trying to change them into who you are.

Joe Rogan 53:30 Did the six-year-old already have things he was really into or sports or activities or...

Sean Anders 53:35 Yeah. Yeah. He was... Well, the funny thing is my son is really athletic, and I'm, I'm really not. So I know you guys are, but I'm, (laughs) I'm so not.

Joe Rogan 53:41 Thomas.

Sean Anders 53:42 And I... (laughs)

Tom Segura 53:43 Me especially.

Sean Anders 53:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:44 He's an acrobat.

Sean Anders 53:46 (laughs)

Tom Segura 53:46 You saw what I was doing yesterday.

Joe Rogan 53:48 You're a gymnast, right? Yeah. Guy's an animal.

Sean Anders 53:49 But, uh, but no, he's really athletic. And he's just always been, you know, good with, with all of that stuff. And it's funny for me because I wasn't that kid at all. But it's great for me 'cause I'm like, "He's able to do the stuff that I wanted to do-"

Tom Segura 54:01 That's kind of cool.

Sean Anders 54:01 "... so badly when I was little." I sucked at sports, and I so wanted to be good at sports.

Tom Segura 54:05 Yeah.

Sean Anders 54:05 And he's really good at it, and it, it makes me-

Joe Rogan 54:07 What does he play?

Sean Anders 54:08 Well, he, I mean, whatever he plays, he just tends to be pretty good at it. So he played flag football for a while, and he's playing lacrosse now, and he's played soccer.

Joe Rogan 54:15 Dude, keep him away from lacrosse and football. We were just playing it with Brennan Schaub the other day.

Sean Anders 54:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 54:20 And I, I had no idea how many people get knocked the fuck out playing la- lacrosse.

Sean Anders 54:24 Really?

Tom Segura 54:24 Lacrosse is fucking violent, man.

Joe Rogan 54:26 Oh my God. Violent. We were saying like there's a difference between this even in football in that they're striking each other.

Tom Segura 54:32 You're allowed to. You can clock somebody.

Joe Rogan 54:33 They're allowed to hit each other with the stick, but they're also striking each other with elbows. They're running in, and they have the stick in their hand, and they're elbowing each other in the face as they're running. I mean, whoa.

Sean Anders 54:43 Oh, shit.

Joe Rogan 54:43 It's a crazy amount of force-

Sean Anders 54:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:45 ... they generate.

Sean Anders 54:46 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:46 And these kids are getting flatlined.

Sean Anders 54:48 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:48 I'm like, that sh- 'Cause I had Dale Earnhardt Jr. here the other day on.Really nice guy, great guy, um, suffered 12 concussions over a period of four years.

Tom Segura 55:00 Racing?

Joe Rogan 55:00 Yes.

Tom Segura 55:01 Fuck.

Joe Rogan 55:01 And has, like, some significant brain damage because of it that he had to go through, uh, therapy for to, to help him, like to the point where he was walking and he had to hold onto things because his balance was so fucked up.

Tom Segura 55:12 Wow.

Joe Rogan 55:12 He couldn't, couldn't just walk, couldn't get off the couch and walk to the bathroom. He had to hold onto, like, a, a table and a chair and he had to make his way through. All of this from concussions. And, you know, what they're getting in lacrosse or they're getting in football, it's all the same shit.

Tom Segura 55:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:27 It's all head trauma.

Tom Segura 55:28 It's head trauma, yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:29 Yeah.

Sean Anders 55:29 So I'm a terrible parent.

Tom Segura 55:31 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 55:31 No, not at... Look man, I, my kids go to a very nice school, it's a great school, and we went to a football game the other day where the older kids are playing football. And I'm just sitting there, all the other parents are having a good time and I'm like, "Brain damage, brain damage, there's some brain damage."

Tom Segura 55:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 55:45 "there's some brain..." I'm like, Jesus fucking Christ, these are kids. They're kids running at each other full-clip, smashing into each other and falling to the ground. They see the kid get up slow and ho- put his hands on the ground, he's all fucked up. I'm like, this is crazy, like you guys-

Tom Segura 55:58 I always felt like-

Joe Rogan 55:58 ... are teaching people.

Tom Segura 55:59 I always felt like lacrosse, 'cause my, my high school had lacrosse too, and I always felt like it was way crazier. And it's 'cause I didn't know about it, and then I'm at this school and they have it, and I'm like, "This shit is nuts." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:10 It's nuts-

Tom Segura 56:10 And because they have sticks-

Joe Rogan 56:11 ... and there's no, no career in it.

Tom Segura 56:12 Yeah, and they're just... Oh yeah, of course, yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:13 At least if you're a football player you can-

Tom Segura 56:14 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:14 ... become some Herschel Walker-type character-

Tom Segura 56:16 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:16 ... and become a huge baller.

Tom Segura 56:18 Yeah, that's true. (laughs)

Sean Anders 56:19 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:19 But you got no shot if you're a lacrosse player. What the fuck can you do?

Tom Segura 56:21 I love when they interview, like, all the guys in the NFL that are, like, uh, the young guys, they're like, "You know, all this evidence is that your lifespan is gonna be way shorter and it's gonna be probably horrific at some point because of the impact of what you're going through playing football, you know. What do you think about that?" They're like, "Shit's worth it, man. This is an awesome lifestyle." (laughs)

Joe Rogan 56:42 (laughs)

Tom Segura 56:42 Nobody is like, "Get out." (laughs) I mean, you're getting some guys that you see retire early-

Joe Rogan 56:47 Yeah.

Tom Segura 56:47 ... which was unheard of 10 years ago.

Sean Anders 56:50 Right.

Tom Segura 56:50 Guys... One guy came out, played his rookie year and retired, you know.

Joe Rogan 56:54 Mm-hmm.

Tom Segura 56:54 You're getting guys early retirement. Um, some guys play, finish out a contract, they're up for a big contract and they're out. Yeah, that's happening. But there's still, you know, there's no shortage of guys who are like, "I'll take the guarantee, whatever my signing bonus is, and take some brain damage with it."

Sean Anders 57:09 Well, and it's... I mean, look, that's how our brains work. Our brains are designed to not have that kind of foresight until you-

Tom Segura 57:15 Yeah.

Sean Anders 57:15 ... get much older.

Tom Segura 57:16 Of course, you're like-

Sean Anders 57:16 When you're young you can't-

Tom Segura 57:17 ... satisfy me now. Yes.

Sean Anders 57:18 Yeah, that you... And I, I don't know what that is, but you can tell people, "Hey, whatever it is you're doing right now, this is really gonna cause you irreparable harm."

Joe Rogan 57:25 Yeah.

Sean Anders 57:25 "When? Like, today? No. Well, fuck it," you know? (laughs)

Tom Segura 57:28 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:28 Well that's the same way we deal with climate change.

Tom Segura 57:31 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:31 It's literally the same thing. People are driving around with cars blowing smoke out, they're like, "Ah, one day it'll very fuckin' probably fix it."

Sean Anders 57:37 Yeah. Yeah.

Tom Segura 57:37 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:37 We won't worry about it.

Tom Segura 57:37 It's gonna be a real problem, like you tell someone it's gonna be a real problem here on earth in, like, 300 years and they're like, "That sucks."

Sean Anders 57:43 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 57:44 Whatever.

Tom Segura 57:44 (laughs) Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:45 Whatever.

Tom Segura 57:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 57:46 I won't be here, bro.

Sean Anders 57:46 Or even 40 years.

Tom Segura 57:48 Right.

Sean Anders 57:48 Sadly. People will be like, "All right."

Tom Segura 57:50 Before it's time.

Joe Rogan 57:50 There's also the issue with people that get a lot of, uh, head trauma, they, they get very impulsive and they, um, they don't make good decisions anyway, you know.

Tom Segura 57:58 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:58 So even if, you know, even if they could have the foresight, they w- they probably wouldn't make good decisions. They, they're no, they're not thinking rationally. And they did some study. What was that study, Jamie? We've referenced this before, where they, um, they looked at kids that play football literally from Pop Warner all the way through college and how many of them have CTE.

Tom Segura 58:20 Really?

Joe Rogan 58:21 Oh, Jesus Christ. It's stunning.

Tom Segura 58:24 See, I always felt like... My, my point of view on it was always, like, I played football fourth grade through high school, right? And I always was like, "Man-"

Joe Rogan 58:32 That's why you're so fucked up, bro.

Tom Segura 58:33 I know, I know that's why I'm fucked... But I just feel like, you know, the imp- like, you have definitely some big... In a, in an amateur career, you have some... You can think back, like, "Man, I got my bell rung there."

Joe Rogan 58:43 How many times did you get your bell rung?

Tom Segura 58:45 I don't know. I mean, probably... I mean, here's the thing, in fourth grade and fifth grade, you're like, "That doesn't happen, really." I mean kids are like, you know, walking up and, like, wrapping up slowly.D- you're playing with kids who will eventually not play football even in sixth grade.

Joe Rogan 58:59 Right.

Tom Segura 58:59 You know? So it starts to be y- you might have, like, a stud on a team in middle school and still a bunch of guys that won't play in high school.

Joe Rogan 59:08 Yeah.

Tom Segura 59:08 And then in high school, yeah, there's definitely some, uh, athletes that stand out, for sure. I mean those are the kids that'll eventually go on. But you play teams or in those weeks where you're just like, no one is really good on this team, you know?

Joe Rogan 59:23 Mm-hmm.

Tom Segura 59:24 Um, and you'll have a, a game where you'll feel like, yeah, I mean, there was a couple... I got a couple good hits in, there was nothing really of impact. And then something will stand out, like you'll play a school that has, like, an all-state or all-American player and you're like, "Holy shit, that guy fucking fucked me up bad." (laughs) And, and you remember it. I mean, I remember it to this day, some of those, like, really standout guys and you're like, "That hit stuck with me." But that's once a year that you play that guy, right? Or that you remember a school that good. And then if you don't go on to play in college, really feels like kind of a, I don't know, a risk assessment where you're like, "I didn't feel like that was, you know... Do I have damage?" I don't know, but I mean, once you get into college football is where I feel like that's where you're really playing with really good athletes.

Joe Rogan 1:00:18 A friend of mine, a guy in his neighborhood, um, a kid who was 21 committed suicide. And, uh, he was a college player who was, uh, about to go in, to pull into the pros. He was 21 years old.

Tom Segura 1:00:29 Really?

Joe Rogan 1:00:30 Yeah. And, um, he, uh, significant CTE, like just really ravaged.

Tom Segura 1:00:36 There's-

Joe Rogan 1:00:36 E- every year a player played tackle football under the age predicted, the early onset of cognitive problems by 2.4 years and behavioral and mood problems by 2.5 years. Yeah, but there's a study-

Tom Segura 1:00:48 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:00:48 This is... Okay, the average study found that 211 players who were diagnosed with CTE after death who played tackle football before age 12 suffered from cognitive b- behavioral and mood symptoms earlier than those players who didn't start to play till after age 12.

Tom Segura 1:01:02 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:01:03 Um, they're saying that-Okay. Study included 246 former players, 211 of whom were diagnosed with CTE after death.

Tom Segura 1:01:12 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:01:12 That's insane.

Tom Segura 1:01:14 Well, in college there's, there's definitely ... There's no such thing as getting around real high impact hits.

Joe Rogan 1:01:20 No such thing.

Tom Segura 1:01:20 That's it. Those are all people that know how to play. They're all athletes. You're gonna get-

Joe Rogan 1:01:23 But here's the thing.

Tom Segura 1:01:24 ... rocked.

Joe Rogan 1:01:25 What they're realizing now is that subconcussive trauma is what's responsible for the majority of brain damage.

Tom Segura 1:01:32 What's subconcussive?

Joe Rogan 1:01:33 You not getting a concussion.

Tom Segura 1:01:34 Oh.

Joe Rogan 1:01:35 Yeah, you're just getting rattled.

Tom Segura 1:01:37 Yeah. Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:01:37 So getting rattled, where it's not even fucking you up but over time-

Tom Segura 1:01:40 Over time that over and over.

Joe Rogan 1:01:41 ... you have multiple hits that are just not, they're not knocking you out, they're just jostling you. You can even-

Tom Segura 1:01:46 Oh, this happened a lot.

Joe Rogan 1:01:47 Yeah. You even get it from getting hit to the body.

Tom Segura 1:01:49 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:01:50 You get hit to the body and your, uh, your head snaps back and you don't even get hit in the head. And you're, like, throwing up and your head's all fucked up.

Tom Segura 1:01:56 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:01:56 And you're trying to figure out what's going on. It's because your brain's been moshing around inside your head.

Tom Segura 1:02:01 Yeah. The thing that I remember, too, is the thing that stands out is when you ... Because there's such thing as, like, bracing for a hit and then feeling it and you're like, "Fuck."

Joe Rogan 1:02:09 Yeah.

Tom Segura 1:02:09 But when you don't see someone coming-

Joe Rogan 1:02:10 Oh, yeah, man.

Tom Segura 1:02:11 ... that's, that's ... I mean-

Joe Rogan 1:02:12 Oh, yeah.

Tom Segura 1:02:12 It's like a fight where you don't see a-

Joe Rogan 1:02:13 You're blindsided.

Tom Segura 1:02:14 ... punch coming. You're like-

Joe Rogan 1:02:15 Oh, yeah.