Joe Rogan Experience #1200 - Ross Edgley

1. 0:03 – 0:41

   Why swim 2,000 miles around Great Britain? The origin story

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:03

      Four, three, two, one. (hands smack) Dude.

   2. RERoss Edgley0:12

      (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:13

      (laughs) First of all, what possessed you to wanna swim around the entire UK? How many thousands of miles is that?

   4. RERoss Edgley0:20

      Yeah, uh, 2,000 miles-

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:22

      Jesus.

   6. RERoss Edgley0:22

      ... altogether. Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:24

      2,000 miles of swimming?

   8. RERoss Edgley0:26

      Yeah, yeah. It, it seemed like a good idea at the time. And then, (laughs) halfway around, I realized how big Great Britain was. (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:31

      But you, you've done some long swims before, but not, like, nothing even remotely. Like, what's the longest swim you did before this?

2. 0:41 – 2:06

   The 100-pound tree ocean swim: tides, currents, and humility

   1. RERoss Edgley0:41

      Yeah, I did, um... Oh, this is a bit of a strange story. I did, um... I tried to swim between Saint Lucia and Martinique, uh, two Caribbean islands. Um, it's only 40 kilometers from point to point. Um, and, and for charity, I was trying to swim, uh, from point to point with a, with a 100-pound tree attached to my trunks. Um, so I was pulling the 100-pound (laughs) tree, uh, six-foot waves crashing down. And, and I actually didn't make it from point to point. I was, like, five kilometers from the end. And, um, when I didn't make it, I decided to swim back the other way. So, I ended up swimming over 100 kilometers with a 100-pound (laughs) tree. It took me 32 hours, um, but still didn't make it. So, so it's-

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:17

      Why... What, what went wrong where you didn't make it?

   3. RERoss Edgley1:20

      Tides, currents, you know. And, and I-

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:22

      Oh, you just got swept away?

   5. RERoss Edgley1:23

      Yeah, yeah. And espe-

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:24

      Especially attached to a tree, right?

   7. RERoss Edgley1:26

      (laughs) Exactly.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:26

      How big was this tree?

   9. RERoss Edgley1:28

      Uh, so 100 pounds. But it, I mean, it floats, but it was more the drag.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:31

       Right.

   11. RERoss Edgley1:31

       S- so if, if there's any influence from tides or currents, and it's pulling you in one direction, I mean, I was basically gonna miss Martinique. So I, I don't know, I was, I was heading to Cuba, you know, or somewhere like that.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:40

       Ugh.

   13. RERoss Edgley1:40

       And then on the way back down, you know, I was g- uh, they turned to me again, and they said, like, "You're gonna miss Saint Lucia. You're, you're, you're gonna end up in..." I don't know, whatever's further south than Saint Lucia. (laughs) Um, and I think I realized, as, as physically fit as you are, um, the ocean just, just doesn't care. You know?

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:57

       Yeah.

   15. RERoss Edgley1:57

       It just doesn't care. And so, after that... This was last year, this was November last year. Um, kind of felt I had unfinished business with, with the ocean, um-

   16. JRJoe Rogan2:06

       (laughs)

3. 2:06 – 3:23

   48-hour swim test and the Royal Marine dare to “man up”

   1. RERoss Edgley2:06

      ... came b- came back to England, uh, rung up, um, friends of mine at the Royal Marines. I said, "Guys, look, this is gonna sound so, so strange." I said, "But I just, I need to get it out my system. I just need to see how far I can swim in 48 hours." So, I swam 48 hours. Um, I can't remember what it was in the end. I think it was 160 kilometers, something, something like that. And I finished, and, and I had basically drenched foot. So, where your, your, your feet and your hands are, are so kind of... They've got so much water in, it's almost going moldy, you know?

   2. JRJoe Rogan2:34

      Mm-hmm.

   3. RERoss Edgley2:34

      It's kind of... Yeah, so I had drenched foot. And I'm sort of sitting there nursing, nursing my feet. And, uh, one of the, one of the officers, uh, uh, a good friend of mine, and they came over, and they just said, uh, they went, you know, real English, Royal Marine. They said, "You, boy." And I said, "Yes." And they said, "Oh, what are you, what are you training for?" And I said, uh, "Oh, I'm, I'm training for, uh, potentially attempting the world's longest current neutral swim." And he just paused, and he, he, he sipped his cup of tea. And he looked me up and down, and he just goes, (smacks lips) "That just sounds a bit lame." (laughs) I was like, "Okay, what-"

   4. JRJoe Rogan3:05

      (laughs)

   5. RERoss Edgley3:05

      "... what do you want me to do?" And he pauses, and he says, "You just need to man up. You need to man up and swim around Great Britain." And I was like, (sighs) "Whoa." And I can't, I can't just... I, I couldn't say no. Once the idea-

   6. JRJoe Rogan3:15

      Should've said, "Why don't you swim with me, bitch?"

   7. RERoss Edgley3:18

      (laughs)

   8. JRJoe Rogan3:18

      "I'll do it if you do it, motherfucker." (laughs)

   9. RERoss Edgley3:21

      (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan3:21

       That's a crazy thing for somebody to be asking you to do.

4. 3:23 – 6:43

   Captain Webb, ‘ungentlemanly’ front crawl, and raising the bar

   1. RERoss Edgley3:23

      No, I know, right? So, I, you know, I, I... So I said fine. Once the idea stuck with me, I mean, you, you know, the, we've got this real history and heritage of, of British eccentric explorers.

   2. JRJoe Rogan3:34

      Mm-hmm.

   3. RERoss Edgley3:35

      Um, and for me growing up, there's a story of Captain Webb, so the, the first guy to swim across the English Channel. And for those who don't know, English Channel, uh, you know, the tides, they believed, were, were too strong. The water was too cold. They said, "You, you just can't make it across the English Channel. It's impossible." But Captain Webb refused to listen. And, uh, 1875, August, uh, crossed the English Channel, and this is the part I love, on a diet of beef broth and brandy in a woolen wetsuit, he swam, I think it was 23 hours breaststroke with his head out the water because, and I quote, "Front crawl was ungentlemanly like." And, and there was that element that I just thought, "That's amazing."

   4. JRJoe Rogan4:12

      Front crawl, what is the front crawl?

   5. RERoss Edgley4:13

      So, so basically, that's front crawl.

   6. JRJoe Rogan4:15

      The regular one?

   7. RERoss Edgley4:16

      Yeah. But way back in 1875, it was like, "No, that's-"

   8. JRJoe Rogan4:18

      He said it was ungentlemanly?

   9. RERoss Edgley4:20

      Yeah, it was-

   10. JRJoe Rogan4:21

       The, the movements itsel- themselves?

   11. RERoss Edgley4:23

       Yeah, it was still being developed as a technique. Whereas, you know, if you were a gentleman, and you were a swimmer, you swim breaststroke, you know? You-

   12. JRJoe Rogan4:29

       Wow.

   13. RERoss Edgley4:30

       Exactly. (laughs)

   14. JRJoe Rogan4:30

       Head out of the water the whole time?

   15. RERoss Edgley4:32

       Just the whole way, 23 hours. And again, like, the, the, the support boat was saying, you know, "Get out. You're not, you're not gonna make it. You're not gonna make it." And he just refused. And 23 hours, so, you know, that's part of a night swim as well, head out the water just all the way.

   16. JRJoe Rogan4:44

       Why brandy? Is he, is he getting fucked up? Or just a little bit of brandy?

   17. RERoss Edgley4:48

       (laughs) Do you know? I don't know. Maybe. It might have been a bit of Dutch courage. But I think there was, you know, certainly back then, sports nutrition isn't what it is today.

   18. JRJoe Rogan4:56

       Right.

   19. RERoss Edgley4:56

       So, I think there was an element. He was even, like, uh, lubing himself up in, in goose fat, you know? This is way back.

   20. JRJoe Rogan5:01

       To make, make himself slicker?

   21. RERoss Edgley5:03

       Slicker, and I think there was an element of warmth, or that was certainly the belief.

   22. JRJoe Rogan5:06

       Mm, right.

   23. RERoss Edgley5:07

       So, it was-

   24. JRJoe Rogan5:08

       Did... The Tour de France guys, didn't they drink wine? That was, like, a big thing back in the day.

   25. RERoss Edgley5:12

       (sighs) Way back, yeah. I mean, it wasn't until long ago. W- I mean, me and Jamie were just, just talking now about football back in England. And it wasn't till, you know, too long ago, I think maybe 100 years ago, they used to just keep brandy in the dressing room in case you needed to warm yourself up-

   26. JRJoe Rogan5:25

       Really?

   27. RERoss Edgley5:26

       ... before you went out. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan5:27

       Wow.

   29. RERoss Edgley5:28

       Yeah, yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan5:28

       So, they would play soccer drunk.
5. 6:43 – 12:26

   Scotland’s tidal hazards: Pentland Firth, whirlpools, and planning the route

   1. RERoss Edgley6:43

      And so that's why in a, and again, in a much, much smaller way, when I had that conversation about swimming around Great Britain, everybody said, "It can't be done." Um, yes, it's 2,000 miles, but there's giant whirlpools in Scotland called the Corryvreckan, uh, Penland Firth, renowned around the world. If you get that wrong, you're disappearing backwards at 10 knots. You, you, there's no way you're swimming against that. And, and 10 knots-

   2. JRJoe Rogan7:05

      Wow.

   3. RERoss Edgley7:05

      ... that's, that's a dolphin speed.

   4. JRJoe Rogan7:07

      Jesus. (laughs)

   5. RERoss Edgley7:08

      Yes, so you n-

   6. JRJoe Rogan7:08

      What is 10 knots in miles per hour?

   7. RERoss Edgley7:10

      It's basically 10 miles per hour. Yeah, yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan7:12

      Oh my God. 10 miles per hour backwards as you're trying to go forwards?

   9. RERoss Edgley7:16

      Basically, yeah. Penland Firth, so the top of Scotland, the currents that go across there-

   10. JRJoe Rogan7:20

       So it's running at a good clip-

   11. RERoss Edgley7:22

       But, oh, yeah. I m-

   12. JRJoe Rogan7:22

       ... backwards?

   13. RERoss Edgley7:23

       Yeah, I mean, we got it good. We, we, we managed to basically predict it so well that I, I, I think that was probably my top speed, which I did, uh, 8.7 knots. So 8.7 miles per hour, I, I was basically cruising along the top, which is-

   14. JRJoe Rogan7:34

       Wow.

   15. RERoss Edgley7:35

       ... which is like a dolphin, you know?

   16. JRJoe Rogan7:36

       So you were having the waves behind you, pushing you almost?

   17. RERoss Edgley7:40

       Well, and see, now that's what's interesting, because I had the tides and currents with me, not necessarily the waves.

   18. JRJoe Rogan7:45

       Yeah, I, I said it wrong.

   19. RERoss Edgley7:46

       And, and when you get... But, but actually you made a good point in terms of when you get wind over tide. So if you've got 10 knots going this way-

   20. JRJoe Rogan7:52

       Mm-hmm.

   21. RERoss Edgley7:52

       ... but you've even got a little bit of wind and waves going this way, y- it can get choppy, it gets-

   22. JRJoe Rogan7:57

       Oh, okay.

   23. RERoss Edgley7:58

       And, and again, sort of looking at West Scotland, wind over tide, you can get 40 knots coming straight down the barrel, but you're trying to swim with the tide, and-

   24. JRJoe Rogan8:08

       Whoa.

   25. RERoss Edgley8:09

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan8:10

       So the wind is coming at you, but the tide is going the opposite way?

   27. RERoss Edgley8:13

       And as you can imagine, that just-

   28. JRJoe Rogan8:14

       Oh my God.

   29. RERoss Edgley8:15

       Yeah, yeah.

   30. JRJoe Rogan8:16

       So how do you predict this, this, this tide that you have to get right?
6. 12:26 – 15:20

   When the sea fights back: jellyfish tentacle on the face near Corryvreckan

   1. RERoss Edgley12:26

      Yeah. So, so sometimes, there's, there's no option. And, and, and perhaps the best example of this, um, I've mentioned it before, it's called the Corryvreckan, so, uh, sort of west coast of Scotland. And, um, it's a giant whirlpool. And, and Matt, the captain, turned to me and said, "Look, Ross, you know, I need you to swim and I need you to swim hard. You know, you need to swim six hours. You just need to be clear of this whirlpool." Um, so as we were swimming past it, I set my watch and I swam hard for six hours. But about three hours in, um, I got stung by a jellyfish. And I've been stung by jellyfish a lot before. It's just, you know, it's painful, but it was, it was bearable. Um, but this one particular jellyfish, it just, it was searing into my skin. It just, it wouldn't stop throbbing. And so I, I carried on swimming, three hours past, and, and it was just unbearable. So I popped my head up and I looked at Matt, the captain, from the boat. I said, "Matt, I'm so sorry. I've been stung. I'm g- you know, I'm gonna have to stop. Um, I've been stung by a jellyfish, but it's, the pain's just not going away." And as, as I said that to him, he looked down at me and he said, "Yeah, I know, 'cause the tentacle's still wrapped around your face." So I'd basically been swimming for three hours-

   2. JRJoe Rogan13:28

      With a jellyfish on your face.

   3. RERoss Edgley13:29

      ... wearing a jellyfish-

   4. JRJoe Rogan13:31

      Ugh.

   5. RERoss Edgley13:32

      ... so it had wrapped into my goggles. So I took my goggles off-

   6. JRJoe Rogan13:35

      Ugh.

   7. RERoss Edgley13:36

      ... unpeeled this fat tentacle, threw it away, um, a- a- and then, like I said, I'll, I'll show you in a minute, I'll, I'll show you in a minute, but there was a picture where my, my face sort of changed shape and the goggles wouldn't fit on my face anymore because my, my eye sockets were so swelled. Um, but I knew that, again, for all of this happening, the Corryvreckan, the giant whirlpool was still to my left. So Matt was like, "You still need to swim. You still need to swim." So I ended up putting the goggles over my face and to try and get them to seal, I just punched them into my face so you just had these perfect ring, and then I managed to-

   8. JRJoe Rogan14:08

      'Cause you were so swollen?

   9. RERoss Edgley14:09

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan14:10

       So you had to push them through the swelling?

   11. RERoss Edgley14:12

       Basically, (laughs) yeah. Yes.

   12. JRJoe Rogan14:13

       Oh my God.

   13. RERoss Edgley14:14

       So you swim. Um, I made another hour. We, we got clear of the Corryvreckan, so we managed to clear this giant whirlpool. I collapse onto the boat, and, um, and this is the thing. It was at that point that I collapsed, exhausted, face now a different shape to when I started that particular swim. And, um, and the team looked at me, and they saw how bad I was, how, how beaten up I was, but they also knew that, that the sea just doesn't care, and in six hours, the tide was gonna change and I'd, uh, gonna have to do that all over again.

   14. JRJoe Rogan14:42

       Wow.

   15. RERoss Edgley14:42

       And, and it was that kind of brutal lesson from nature that, that from a sports science background, I'm interested in, you know, rehab, rest, recovery, nutrition strategies, all of this. But with swimming around Great Britain, it, it very quickly became apparent that the sea just doesn't care. It just doesn't care that, that you need to rehab your shoulders. It doesn't care that the ligaments and tendons in your shoulders are hurting, you might get impingement from swimming too much. You know, none of this. And, um, that's why it went from swimming, as I understood it and how a lot of people understand it, to something completely like surviving, basically, in the water.

7. 15:20 – 17:20

   Daily logistics: 6 hours on/6 off, in-water feeding, storms, and seasonal deadlines

   1. JRJoe Rogan15:20

      So your swimming schedule would be six hours on, and then you would try to rest. When would you eat?

   2. RERoss Edgley15:26

      Uh, during the swims or, or, or between? And-

   3. JRJoe Rogan15:29

      During the swims?

   4. RERoss Edgley15:30

      Yeah. Yeah, so quite often just, you know, throwing bananas at me and, and just-

   5. JRJoe Rogan15:34

      Wow.

   6. RERoss Edgley15:35

      ... uh, you know-

   7. JRJoe Rogan15:35

      Salty bananas?

   8. RERoss Edgley15:36

      (laughs) Basically, yeah. Yeah, just salty bana- and-

   9. JRJoe Rogan15:39

      And you would eat them while you were in the water?

   10. RERoss Edgley15:40

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan15:41

       Wow.

   12. RERoss Edgley15:41

       Yeah, 'cause, 'cause again, going back to what we were talking about with the Pendle Firth, you could get out and you could get on the boat, but sometimes, in a really good tide, if you are just in the water, you could be making four knots. You don't have to swim, but if you get in the freezing cold water of Scotland and you are quite happy getting hit in the face by tentacles, you can still make four knots. And so that's why so often it became about, uh, something different than swimming. It was just, it was just mental fortitude, it was physical fortitude, it was, um, basically... And, and I always remember actually, uh, first day of autumn, um, I got up, it was two o'clock, so it was a night swim, two o'clock in the morning, and I left my wetsuit out to, to dry. And, um, I had to scrape just a thin layer of ice off the wetsuit before I could put it on.

   13. JRJoe Rogan16:27

       (laughs)

   14. RERoss Edgley16:27

       (laughs) But if I didn't, if I didn't get in and I didn't scrape that, that, that wetsuit, then that would've been, you know, 15 miles potentially that we would've missed out on. And if-

   15. JRJoe Rogan16:36

       Mm.

   16. RERoss Edgley16:36

       ... you miss those 15 miles, the, the window of opportunity to swim around Great Britain because of the British summer being notoriously unpredictable and quite short, um, we wouldn't have made it round. Because even towards the end, there was two storms, uh, Storm Alan and Storm Callie, uh, uh, Ali and Calum, who kind of stopped us for those two days where we couldn't swim 'cause you, you just couldn't swim in a storm. It wasn't safe.

   17. JRJoe Rogan17:00

       So when you were swimming, this was all during the summer?

   18. RERoss Edgley17:03

       Yeah, yeah, uh, through the autumn, and then we finished November the 4th, which was going into the winter-

   19. JRJoe Rogan17:07

       Oh.

   20. RERoss Edgley17:08

       ... as well. (laughs)

   21. JRJoe Rogan17:08

       And you started what month?

   22. RERoss Edgley17:10

       Uh, June the 1st. (laughs)

   23. JRJoe Rogan17:11

       So for, since June, you've been swimming?

   24. RERoss Edgley17:14

       Yeah, basically. (laughs)

   25. JRJoe Rogan17:15

       God damn, man.

   26. RERoss Edgley17:17

       (laughs)

   27. JRJoe Rogan17:17

       That's so crazy.

   28. RERoss Edgley17:20

       Yeah.

8. 17:20 – 17:55

   Strength + stamina: why a “tank” body might survive ultra-distance swimming

   1. JRJoe Rogan17:20

      You know what's interesting too? You're not built like a guy I'd expect to be doing this.

   2. RERoss Edgley17:24

      Right. (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan17:25

      You're built, you're built like a tank.

   4. RERoss Edgley17:26

      Right. (laughs)

   5. JRJoe Rogan17:26

      Like, that's not normal. Like, you're a big jack guy.

   6. RERoss Edgley17:29

      Right. (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan17:29

      You, you look more like an MMA fighter or powerlifter even.

   8. RERoss Edgley17:33

      Right.

   9. JRJoe Rogan17:33

      Like, you don't look like an endurance athlete.

   10. RERoss Edgley17:35

       Yeah, which is... And, and we were just, we were speaking about this 'cause I, I love the episode with you and CT Fletcher.

   11. JRJoe Rogan17:40

       I love that guy.

   12. RERoss Edgley17:41

       I, I loved that. And, and, uh, you know, was a big fan of, you know, Cal-

   13. JRJoe Rogan17:44

       Well, there you are. Look at this fucking picture.

   14. RERoss Edgley17:46

       (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan17:46

       Yo, dude. Get the fuck outta here.

   16. RERoss Edgley17:49

       (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan17:49

       If someone said that guy's gonna swim around Great Brit- I'd be like, "That guy's gonna swim for half an hour and then he's gonna have a fucking heart attack."

9. 17:55 – 34:07

   Training theory deep dive: concurrent training, strength deficit, and hypertrophy mechanisms

   1. RERoss Edgley17:55

      No, you're right. There, there was a lot... Yeah. I, and I would probably be inclined to agree with you. But what I find interesting is when you start looking at, um, so strength and stamina...For so often-

   2. JRJoe Rogan18:03

      Mm-hmm.

   3. RERoss Edgley18:04

      ... people believed the two couldn't co-exist, you know?

   4. JRJoe Rogan18:06

      Right.

   5. RERoss Edgley18:06

      And, uh, Robert Hixon, uh, and his, his, uh, sort of research around concurrent training, that, um, basically saying if, if you train for strength and stamina, you dilute the potency of the stimuli. So what, what I mean by that is if, you know, we went into the gym just now, and, uh, you know, m- me, you, and Jamie walked into the gym, and we were like, "Okay, okay. Let's, let's go and see, uh, what we're doing on, uh, you know, in the squat rack." You know, that's strength, your body's ability to generate force. And we train that, and then all of a sudden, I was like, "Okay. No, no, no. Now let's go over to the rowing machine, or let's go for a swim. Let's go and swim 10K." Then all of a sudden, our bodies are gonna go, "Well, hang on. Which one do you want us to adapt to? You know, looking at, you know, molecular biology, which one do you want us to adapt to, strength or stamina?" And again, you dilute the potency of that stimuli. However, there's the theory that if you separate them, within the... Ver- I'm going off on a little bit of a tangent here, but-

   6. JRJoe Rogan18:55

      No, please.

   7. RERoss Edgley18:55

      (laughs) Thank you.

   8. JRJoe Rogan18:56

      It's good.

   9. RERoss Edgley18:57

      Looking at, um, Verkhoshansky, so one of the greatest conditioning coaches to ever exist, he talks about this idea of adaptive energy, saying that in any given day, you have a certain amount of adaptive energy. And if you are able to fit both a, a training session that, that, like I said, causes your body to adapt to both strength and stamina, and you separate them, under those conditions, they can co-exist.

   10. JRJoe Rogan19:20

       So you separate them by how much time?

   11. RERoss Edgley19:22

       As much as needed for optimal recovery.

   12. JRJoe Rogan19:24

       Right.

   13. RERoss Edgley19:24

       So, so yeah. If, if we did... And this is the, this is what I find fascinating about MMA, 'cause you're essentially saying to an MMA athlete, "I need you to be strong, fast, quick. I need you to be muscularly endured, but I also need you to have plyometric speed strength."

   14. JRJoe Rogan19:38

       Mm-hmm.

   15. RERoss Edgley19:39

       And their body's going, "You want us to be all of those things."

   16. JRJoe Rogan19:41

       Right.

   17. RERoss Edgley19:42

       You know, and that's why quite often it's the athlete with a higher work capacity who can, you know, adapt to those, looking at, like, you know, the Diaz brothers, who just do triathlons for fun.

   18. JRJoe Rogan19:51

       Mm-hmm.

   19. RERoss Edgley19:51

       You know, they have this insane work capacity, you know, so, so that's kind of your, your body's ability to perform and positively tolerate training of a given intensity or duration.

   20. JRJoe Rogan20:00

       Right.

   21. RERoss Edgley20:01

       So if you have the Diaz brothers, and you say, "Okay, we're gonna now do weight training in the morning, but by the afternoon, I also need to go and swim a 10K," their bodies could tolerate that. Whereas if you have another athlete who perhaps, you know, doesn't have that work capacity, their body's not gonna positively tolerate it.

   22. JRJoe Rogan20:16

       Right, a person who's used to working out maybe only an hour a day.

   23. RERoss Edgley20:19

       Yeah, absolutely.

   24. JRJoe Rogan20:20

       Yeah.

   25. RERoss Edgley20:21

       So, so that's essentially how I would, would, uh, approach anything like this. But what I found really interesting when you were talking, um, with, with CT Fletcher was when you look at strength and stamina, it's, it's so specific, so, you know, SAID principle, specific adaptation to imposed demands, you know, you get good at whatever you continually practice. And when you look at endurance in weight-bearing sports, absolutely, you know, you can argue that, that running, for instance, is, is just, you know, power-to-weight ratio. It's, it's a series of successive jumps. Um, and when you start looking at that, there's research that will show adding... Uh, we, we did this with the Royal Marines back in England. When you just add one kilo of extra weight in a backpack, its effect on pulmonary ventilation, lactic threshold, time to fatigue, all of those things. Just one, one kilogram. That's it. And so that's why when you see Tour de France and people like Chris Froome, Bradley Wiggins, you know, from Team Sky, they are just looking at the body saying, "Okay, your VO2 is what it is. Your power to, your power-to-weight ratio, that's what we need to improve. We need to treat you like a Formula One car."

   26. JRJoe Rogan21:23

       Mm-hmm.

   27. RERoss Edgley21:23

       "We need to take away anything..." You know, so when you look at Chris Froome, you know, an unbelievable athlete, and they say, "Well, look, you don't need biceps. You don't need triceps," so they will remove those.

   28. JRJoe Rogan21:31

       Mm-hmm.

   29. RERoss Edgley21:31

       Controlled muscular atrophy. Um-

   30. JRJoe Rogan21:34

       And how do they approach that?
10. 34:07 – 40:13

    Adversity mindset: central governor theory, “get feral,” salt tongue, and sea ulcers

    1. RERoss Edgley34:07

       No, I do. I've- and I've had this conversation with a few people because they said something similar, and I think it's, um, I mean, you know, to slightly go off on- on another tangent here, because I think we've covered the physical aspect and- and work capacity, which- which I've addressed, but, um, I think... And- and this is one thing I- I genuinely just wanted to almost quiz you on and get your thoughts on this, is, uh, certainly the, throughout the Great British Swim, it- it subjected my body to a fatigue like I've never experienced before. It was just-

    2. JRJoe Rogan34:36

       Mm-hmm.

    3. RERoss Edgley34:36

       Yeah, sleep deprivation, just ligaments, tendons in my shoulders, just wondering what was going on. And, um, for me, you almost develop a- a- a split personality in that there's times when I- I'd quite often say you need to swim with a smile because, you know, it's 157 days. If you're stressed or it's like a marathon where you grit your teeth and you try and get through it, um, I think we're very aware that, you know, the body is this complex biochemical organism. And if you're stressed, cortisol levels spike, inflammation, your immune system, everything's affected. So for me, I was treating it not like a marathon. I had to treat it swim with a smile, you know, think this is, this is life now-

    4. JRJoe Rogan35:13

       Right.

    5. RERoss Edgley35:14

       ... you know, see? Um, but then equally, there were times when, you know, I- I wouldn't swim with a smile. It was just, you know, Corey Vechon being a great example, you know, I certainly wasn't all that happy then. And- and for me, it's those times when I- I say, "You've got to just get feral." You know, you've really just got to... And a good friend of mine, you know, back in, back in England, um, uh, SAS-trained, and he said to me, "Ross, you're- you're a really nice guy and everything, but there's gonna be times when you just need to, you know, no smiles and just get feral." Which- which I, thinking about it and- and because I had 12 hours to think a day, I was mulling this over in my head.

    6. JRJoe Rogan35:52

       (laughs)

    7. RERoss Edgley35:52

       Um, for me, it- it goes back to Tim Noakes' central governor theory?

    8. JRJoe Rogan35:56

       Mm-hmm.

    9. RERoss Edgley35:57

       Um, looking at how fatigue is a- is an emotionally driven state that we use to pull that physiological handbrake. So, uh, you know, for those listening sort of 16 miles into a marathon, you might be saying, "No way, I can't keep putting one foot in front of the other. There's no way." Um, and then all of a sudden, 25 miles in, your family and friends are clapping you and you get that second wind and you start sprinting.

    10. JRJoe Rogan36:17

        Yes.

    11. RERoss Edgley36:17

        Um, and for me, looking at that, the sort of central governor theory-I found that in complete exhaustion, like, when- when you absolutely have nothing left, you almost go into this feral state, you know? So like a- like- like an injured dog-

    12. JRJoe Rogan36:33

        Mm-hmm.

    13. RERoss Edgley36:33

        ... you know, where a lot of people will say, "Oh," you know, "remember why you started. Think of your family and friends." And I was like, "No, no, no." I was at a level of fatigue where I wasn't thinking about, you know, family and friends. It- I- I was thinking almost, you know, Maslow's hierarchy of needs, where it starts with just food, shelter, oxygen. I was at that sort of level, where there was sea ulcers. I mean, my neck's kinda healed now but, you know, there was times when chafing on my neck, my- my tongue was falling a- it's fine now, by the way, Joe. (laughs)

    14. JRJoe Rogan37:05

        Your tongue was falling apart?

    15. RERoss Edgley37:06

        My tongue was f-

    16. JRJoe Rogan37:07

        From the s- salt water?

    17. RERoss Edgley37:08

        Yeah. Yeah. And- and-

    18. JRJoe Rogan37:10

        Falling apart, like, how so?

    19. RERoss Edgley37:12

        It- y- it's what is called salt tongue. And after 12 hours in the water every single day, um, you- your- your tongue would essentially start to disintegrate. So-

    20. JRJoe Rogan37:20

        Oh, Jesus.

    21. RERoss Edgley37:21

        Yeah, nice. (laughs) So I was- I woke up and there was parts of my tongue on my pillow, and-

    22. JRJoe Rogan37:26

        Oh.

    23. RERoss Edgley37:27

        Yeah. No, so (laughs) this is-

    24. JRJoe Rogan37:29

        Is there any concern that this is permanent, or it was permanent at the time? Were you concerned?

    25. RERoss Edgley37:33

        A- a- absolutely. And- and I think that's-

    26. JRJoe Rogan37:35

        Oh, Jesus Christ, bro.

    27. RERoss Edgley37:35

        ... that's- (laughs) that's-

    28. JRJoe Rogan37:36

        (laughs)

    29. RERoss Edgley37:37

        But that's what goes back to that- that hierarchy of needs, where you're not thinking about family and friends, or what motivates you, and what, you know, you're... No, you're thinking, "I wanna keep my tongue." You know? You're like-

    30. JRJoe Rogan37:48

        Yeah.
11. 40:13 – 2:14:59

    Finishing and re-entry: 157 days, team effort, and learning to walk again

    1. JRJoe Rogan40:13

       What was it like when you finished? What did it feel like when the last stroke, when you got out of the water-

    2. RERoss Edgley40:21

       (laughs)

    3. JRJoe Rogan40:21

       ... and you're like, "Holy shit, I just swam for six months"?

    4. RERoss Edgley40:24

       It was, yeah, it was- it was so strange because when we left in June, we came back obviously to the same point, and we left in the British summer, and everyone was on the beach, and- and then I came back round, people were putting up Christmas decorations, and I was like, "W-" I'd- I'd been gone for so long at sea.

    5. JRJoe Rogan40:41

       (laughs)

    6. RERoss Edgley40:41

       It was just...

    7. JRJoe Rogan40:42

       That's so crazy.

    8. RERoss Edgley40:44

       It...

    9. JRJoe Rogan40:44

       How many days was it total?

    10. RERoss Edgley40:45

        157.

    11. JRJoe Rogan40:47

        Oh my God.

    12. RERoss Edgley40:47

        Yeah, s-

    13. JRJoe Rogan40:48

        That is so insane.

    14. RERoss Edgley40:49

        It just, so much change, and oh, here, yeah, here we go. That was the- the finish, so this is swimming back then.

    15. JRJoe Rogan40:54

        So this is you at the... Who are these people, these fucking hangers on, following you around, pretending they did it too?

    16. RERoss Edgley41:00

        (laughs)

    17. JRJoe Rogan41:00

        "Oh, he's Ross."

    18. RERoss Edgley41:01

        No, no, no, it's... I- I-

    19. JRJoe Rogan41:02

        "Ross, Ross is my friend."

    20. RERoss Edgley41:04

        (laughs) So I felt that- that it was such a- a- a team effort. I'm-

    21. JRJoe Rogan41:07

        Look at all those people waiting for you.

    22. RERoss Edgley41:09

        My legs were so shaky, Joe. I was, at this point I'm thinking, "Don't fall over. Don't fall over."

    23. JRJoe Rogan41:13

        Wow.

    24. RERoss Edgley41:13

        Because it has, I mean, this is the thing, uh, I think I stumble in a little minute.

    25. JRJoe Rogan41:16

        That is such madness, man.

    26. RERoss Edgley41:18

        Yeah.

    27. JRJoe Rogan41:19

        That is such madness, and you crossed the Red Bull finish line.

    28. RERoss Edgley41:22

        I got a trident. That was pretty cool.

    29. JRJoe Rogan41:24

        Wow.

    30. RERoss Edgley41:24

        That's at home at the moment.

Episode duration: 2:52:15