Joe Rogan Experience #1200 - Ross Edgley

Joe Rogan 0:03 Four, three, two, one. (hands smack) Dude.

Ross Edgley 0:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:13 (laughs) First of all, what possessed you to wanna swim around the entire UK? How many thousands of miles is that?

Ross Edgley 0:20 Yeah, uh, 2,000 miles-

Joe Rogan 0:22 Jesus.

Ross Edgley 0:22 ... altogether. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 0:24 2,000 miles of swimming?

Ross Edgley 0:26 Yeah, yeah. It, it seemed like a good idea at the time. And then, (laughs) halfway around, I realized how big Great Britain was. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 0:31 But you, you've done some long swims before, but not, like, nothing even remotely. Like, what's the longest swim you did before this?

Ross Edgley 0:41 Yeah, I did, um... Oh, this is a bit of a strange story. I did, um... I tried to swim between Saint Lucia and Martinique, uh, two Caribbean islands. Um, it's only 40 kilometers from point to point. Um, and, and for charity, I was trying to swim, uh, from point to point with a, with a 100-pound tree attached to my trunks. Um, so I was pulling the 100-pound (laughs) tree, uh, six-foot waves crashing down. And, and I actually didn't make it from point to point. I was, like, five kilometers from the end. And, um, when I didn't make it, I decided to swim back the other way. So, I ended up swimming over 100 kilometers with a 100-pound (laughs) tree. It took me 32 hours, um, but still didn't make it. So, so it's-

Joe Rogan 1:17 Why... What, what went wrong where you didn't make it?

Ross Edgley 1:20 Tides, currents, you know. And, and I-

Joe Rogan 1:22 Oh, you just got swept away?

Ross Edgley 1:23 Yeah, yeah. And espe-

Joe Rogan 1:24 Especially attached to a tree, right?

Ross Edgley 1:26 (laughs) Exactly.

Joe Rogan 1:26 How big was this tree?

Ross Edgley 1:28 Uh, so 100 pounds. But it, I mean, it floats, but it was more the drag.

Joe Rogan 1:31 Right.

Ross Edgley 1:31 S- so if, if there's any influence from tides or currents, and it's pulling you in one direction, I mean, I was basically gonna miss Martinique. So I, I don't know, I was, I was heading to Cuba, you know, or somewhere like that.

Joe Rogan 1:40 Ugh.

Ross Edgley 1:40 And then on the way back down, you know, I was g- uh, they turned to me again, and they said, like, "You're gonna miss Saint Lucia. You're, you're, you're gonna end up in..." I don't know, whatever's further south than Saint Lucia. (laughs) Um, and I think I realized, as, as physically fit as you are, um, the ocean just, just doesn't care. You know?

Joe Rogan 1:57 Yeah.

Ross Edgley 1:57 It just doesn't care. And so, after that... This was last year, this was November last year. Um, kind of felt I had unfinished business with, with the ocean, um-

Joe Rogan 2:06 (laughs)

Ross Edgley 2:06 ... came b- came back to England, uh, rung up, um, friends of mine at the Royal Marines. I said, "Guys, look, this is gonna sound so, so strange." I said, "But I just, I need to get it out my system. I just need to see how far I can swim in 48 hours." So, I swam 48 hours. Um, I can't remember what it was in the end. I think it was 160 kilometers, something, something like that. And I finished, and, and I had basically drenched foot. So, where your, your, your feet and your hands are, are so kind of... They've got so much water in, it's almost going moldy, you know?

Joe Rogan 2:34 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 2:34 It's kind of... Yeah, so I had drenched foot. And I'm sort of sitting there nursing, nursing my feet. And, uh, one of the, one of the officers, uh, uh, a good friend of mine, and they came over, and they just said, uh, they went, you know, real English, Royal Marine. They said, "You, boy." And I said, "Yes." And they said, "Oh, what are you, what are you training for?" And I said, uh, "Oh, I'm, I'm training for, uh, potentially attempting the world's longest current neutral swim." And he just paused, and he, he, he sipped his cup of tea. And he looked me up and down, and he just goes, (smacks lips) "That just sounds a bit lame." (laughs) I was like, "Okay, what-"

Joe Rogan 3:05 (laughs)

Ross Edgley 3:05 "... what do you want me to do?" And he pauses, and he says, "You just need to man up. You need to man up and swim around Great Britain." And I was like, (sighs) "Whoa." And I can't, I can't just... I, I couldn't say no. Once the idea-

Joe Rogan 3:15 Should've said, "Why don't you swim with me, bitch?"

Ross Edgley 3:18 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:18 "I'll do it if you do it, motherfucker." (laughs)

Ross Edgley 3:21 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 3:21 That's a crazy thing for somebody to be asking you to do.

Ross Edgley 3:23 No, I know, right? So, I, you know, I, I... So I said fine. Once the idea stuck with me, I mean, you, you know, the, we've got this real history and heritage of, of British eccentric explorers.

Joe Rogan 3:34 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 3:35 Um, and for me growing up, there's a story of Captain Webb, so the, the first guy to swim across the English Channel. And for those who don't know, English Channel, uh, you know, the tides, they believed, were, were too strong. The water was too cold. They said, "You, you just can't make it across the English Channel. It's impossible." But Captain Webb refused to listen. And, uh, 1875, August, uh, crossed the English Channel, and this is the part I love, on a diet of beef broth and brandy in a woolen wetsuit, he swam, I think it was 23 hours breaststroke with his head out the water because, and I quote, "Front crawl was ungentlemanly like." And, and there was that element that I just thought, "That's amazing."

Joe Rogan 4:12 Front crawl, what is the front crawl?

Ross Edgley 4:13 So, so basically, that's front crawl.

Joe Rogan 4:15 The regular one?

Ross Edgley 4:16 Yeah. But way back in 1875, it was like, "No, that's-"

Joe Rogan 4:18 He said it was ungentlemanly?

Ross Edgley 4:20 Yeah, it was-

Joe Rogan 4:21 The, the movements itsel- themselves?

Ross Edgley 4:23 Yeah, it was still being developed as a technique. Whereas, you know, if you were a gentleman, and you were a swimmer, you swim breaststroke, you know? You-

Joe Rogan 4:29 Wow.

Ross Edgley 4:30 Exactly. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 4:30 Head out of the water the whole time?

Ross Edgley 4:32 Just the whole way, 23 hours. And again, like, the, the, the support boat was saying, you know, "Get out. You're not, you're not gonna make it. You're not gonna make it." And he just refused. And 23 hours, so, you know, that's part of a night swim as well, head out the water just all the way.

Joe Rogan 4:44 Why brandy? Is he, is he getting fucked up? Or just a little bit of brandy?

Ross Edgley 4:48 (laughs) Do you know? I don't know. Maybe. It might have been a bit of Dutch courage. But I think there was, you know, certainly back then, sports nutrition isn't what it is today.

Joe Rogan 4:56 Right.

Ross Edgley 4:56 So, I think there was an element. He was even, like, uh, lubing himself up in, in goose fat, you know? This is way back.

Joe Rogan 5:01 To make, make himself slicker?

Ross Edgley 5:03 Slicker, and I think there was an element of warmth, or that was certainly the belief.

Joe Rogan 5:06 Mm, right.

Ross Edgley 5:07 So, it was-

Joe Rogan 5:08 Did... The Tour de France guys, didn't they drink wine? That was, like, a big thing back in the day.

Ross Edgley 5:12 (sighs) Way back, yeah. I mean, it wasn't until long ago. W- I mean, me and Jamie were just, just talking now about football back in England. And it wasn't till, you know, too long ago, I think maybe 100 years ago, they used to just keep brandy in the dressing room in case you needed to warm yourself up-

Joe Rogan 5:25 Really?

Ross Edgley 5:26 ... before you went out. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:27 Wow.

Ross Edgley 5:28 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:28 So, they would play soccer drunk.

Ross Edgley 5:30 Ye- yeah, kinda, just like with a little bit in there.

Joe Rogan 5:32 (laughs)

Ross Edgley 5:32 But like I said, just warming yourself up.

Joe Rogan 5:33 Just a little bit of something.

Ross Edgley 5:35 Exactly. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 5:35 Get the old engine turning over.

Ross Edgley 5:36 Exactly, yeah.

Joe Rogan 5:37 Wow, wow.

Ross Edgley 5:38 And I think, you know, people don't understand that it's taken, you know, people like Captain Webb, maybe me to a smaller extent, to just-... raise the bar, push the boundaries. And, and I, you know, I, you've seen that. I think our generation have seen that, um, with the UFC, with mixed martial arts, that has evolved so fast. Um, I always remember Forrest Griffin used to kind of, uh, liken himself to the basketball players, just shooting three-pointers with the, the ball between their legs.

Joe Rogan 6:04 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 6:04 You know? And that always resonated with me, because I was like, "Yeah, the, the evolution that we've seen." And what sort of Bruce Lee had the, the foresight to predict is amazing. And I think in a, in a much, much, much smaller way, again, to go back to sort of British athletes and adventurers, um, Roger Bannister, you know, first guy-

Joe Rogan 6:22 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 6:22 ... to run in a four-minute mile.

Joe Rogan 6:23 Right.

Ross Edgley 6:24 And, and people said it couldn't be done. And he was a medical student at the time. Leading physicians said, "He can't do it. Your lungs will explode, your legs will fall off." All sorts. Um, but no, he said, you know, Oxford, uh, laced up his trainers and, and ran a four-minute mile. Similar right now to what I think we're seeing with Kipchoge, you know, and, and the two-hour marathon.

Joe Rogan 6:43 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 6:43 And so that's why in a, and again, in a much, much smaller way, when I had that conversation about swimming around Great Britain, everybody said, "It can't be done." Um, yes, it's 2,000 miles, but there's giant whirlpools in Scotland called the Corryvreckan, uh, Penland Firth, renowned around the world. If you get that wrong, you're disappearing backwards at 10 knots. You, you, there's no way you're swimming against that. And, and 10 knots-

Joe Rogan 7:05 Wow.

Ross Edgley 7:05 ... that's, that's a dolphin speed.

Joe Rogan 7:07 Jesus. (laughs)

Ross Edgley 7:08 Yes, so you n-

Joe Rogan 7:08 What is 10 knots in miles per hour?

Ross Edgley 7:10 It's basically 10 miles per hour. Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 7:12 Oh my God. 10 miles per hour backwards as you're trying to go forwards?

Ross Edgley 7:16 Basically, yeah. Penland Firth, so the top of Scotland, the currents that go across there-

Joe Rogan 7:20 So it's running at a good clip-

Ross Edgley 7:22 But, oh, yeah. I m-

Joe Rogan 7:22 ... backwards?

Ross Edgley 7:23 Yeah, I mean, we got it good. We, we, we managed to basically predict it so well that I, I, I think that was probably my top speed, which I did, uh, 8.7 knots. So 8.7 miles per hour, I, I was basically cruising along the top, which is-

Joe Rogan 7:34 Wow.

Ross Edgley 7:35 ... which is like a dolphin, you know?

Joe Rogan 7:36 So you were having the waves behind you, pushing you almost?

Ross Edgley 7:40 Well, and see, now that's what's interesting, because I had the tides and currents with me, not necessarily the waves.

Joe Rogan 7:45 Yeah, I, I said it wrong.

Ross Edgley 7:46 And, and when you get... But, but actually you made a good point in terms of when you get wind over tide. So if you've got 10 knots going this way-

Joe Rogan 7:52 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 7:52 ... but you've even got a little bit of wind and waves going this way, y- it can get choppy, it gets-

Joe Rogan 7:57 Oh, okay.

Ross Edgley 7:58 And, and again, sort of looking at West Scotland, wind over tide, you can get 40 knots coming straight down the barrel, but you're trying to swim with the tide, and-

Joe Rogan 8:08 Whoa.

Ross Edgley 8:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:10 So the wind is coming at you, but the tide is going the opposite way?

Ross Edgley 8:13 And as you can imagine, that just-

Joe Rogan 8:14 Oh my God.

Ross Edgley 8:15 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:16 So how do you predict this, this, this tide that you have to get right?

Ross Edgley 8:22 Yeah, I mean, it's, it's in, completely in theory, and this is what I realized when I, when I sat down and we started plot- sort of plotting the Great British swim.

Joe Rogan 8:28 What is it called again? What is the, the issue that'll push you back?

Ross Edgley 8:32 Oh, just the title, yeah. So-

Joe Rogan 8:33 What is it called, that area?

Ross Edgley 8:35 The- Oh.

Joe Rogan 8:35 That you say you gotta get right?

Ross Edgley 8:36 Oh, so Penland Firth.

Joe Rogan 8:38 Penden Firth?

Ross Edgley 8:39 Uh, the Penland Firth.

Joe Rogan 8:40 Penland Firth?

Ross Edgley 8:41 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 8:42 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 8:43 And that's that, like I said, renowned around the world. But, but equally, if you imagine the shape of Great Britain, there's all sorts of kind of compression where the water will just come rushing through. And as well as the Penland Firth, you can get, you know, six knots around Wales. There's an island called Skomer. And if you get that right, you are disappearing up, you know, and you're winning. You get it wrong, again, you're j- you're going backwards. And for me-

Joe Rogan 9:06 Wow.

Ross Edgley 9:06 ... for me to do a continuous stage swim, if I'm going backwards, I've gotta start where I was going backwards. So for me, getting every single tide right, and that's why I was so f- the team were amazing. Uh, there was a, uh, the captain, uh, Matt, was just incredible, that every night the homework began.

Joe Rogan 9:24 Jim, are we okay here? Is, no? Did we crash? All right, folks, if you're listening or watching, we had a little technical difficulty, so this is not streaming live, will be uploaded later. We were just going over how you predicted you had to, and your team had to predict how the tide was coming, because if it went wrong, you'd get pushed backwards at like 10 miles an hour.

Ross Edgley 9:45 Yeah, basically. And, and th- and this is the thing, I think with the Great British Swim, we were kind of taking swimming as most people understand it, and we were, we were removing it and putting it, uh, in an arena that was so different. So and, and I think that's why it was, it, it did so well kind of online as well, the community around it, because obviously swimmers were interested, but you know, surfers started to get involved 'cause they understood the waves. Um, sailors, fishermen, you know, all sorts of people started to say, you know, sometimes i- in Great Britain, it's not t- safe to take a boat around the top of Scotland, you know, for instance, never mind a swimmer. Um, so that's, that's why it was amazing that, that on the entire series, it became a, a melting pot and an exchange of ideas. Because nobody knew how to get a human body around the coast of Great Britain. It w- wasn't just about swimming. And, and that was what was really cool.

Joe Rogan 10:37 How d- how do they know like when the tides are going one way or the other? How, how do they predict that?

Ross Edgley 10:42 Yeah, I mean, tides are so predictable. So in theory, um, they change every six hours. So in theory, when we sat down and we looked, um, we know that if you do six hours on, six hours off for 157 days, you'll make it around the coast of Great Britain, you know? And, and, and that was the theory. So you do this biphasic sleep-

Joe Rogan 11:00 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 11:00 ... and, and you swim for 12 hours a day. But that's all theory. There's times when, as I mentioned, uh, giant whirlpools or, or the tides might not necessarily... If you imagine sort of that's Great Britain there, the tides don't necessarily go always like this, so they're not that predictable. Sometimes if there's kind of like this, like that's kind of Wales there, the tides will do this. So you'll kind of just-

Joe Rogan 11:20 You're, you're doing all these different things that people are not gonna see-

Ross Edgley 11:23 Right. (laughs) Right. Uh-

Joe Rogan 11:25 ... if they're listening to it on audio. So just try to de- just describe it.

Ross Edgley 11:28 Right. So basically, rather than the tides just going up and down and working with you-

Joe Rogan 11:32 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 11:32 ... um, sometimes-

Joe Rogan 11:33 Sometimes they cross.

Ross Edgley 11:33 Cross, yeah. So you're just kind of-

Joe Rogan 11:34 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 11:34 ... getting slapped across the face-

Joe Rogan 11:36 Man.

Ross Edgley 11:36 ... by tides essentially. And it's not just helping you, you're gonna basically zigzag all the way up the coast of Great Britain. So as predictable as tides are, we found there was so much stuff that when we were out there, we were like, "Oh, it wasn't meant to do that." Or-

Joe Rogan 11:50 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 11:50 ... a giant whirlpool wasn't meant to be there, you know? But it is. And, and that was what was-... you know, pretty, yeah, pretty sketchy at some times. You know, (laughs) there, when we're out there, if a whirlpool just decides to appear, you've go- y- y- there's not really enough time to say, "Oh, hang on. That wasn't on the map. Can we look at that? Can we speak to the met office and, and talk about, you know, weather reports?" No. You just, you either had to swim through it or, or try and get out there as quick as you could.

Joe Rogan 12:14 So when you encounter something like that and you get stuck, do you pull out of the water and try back again later at the same location?

Ross Edgley 12:21 You do. But quite often, if it was there, it's still gonna be there. S-

Joe Rogan 12:25 Oh, it just, it is what it is.

Ross Edgley 12:26 Yeah. So, so sometimes, there's, there's no option. And, and, and perhaps the best example of this, um, I've mentioned it before, it's called the Corryvreckan, so, uh, sort of west coast of Scotland. And, um, it's a giant whirlpool. And, and Matt, the captain, turned to me and said, "Look, Ross, you know, I need you to swim and I need you to swim hard. You know, you need to swim six hours. You just need to be clear of this whirlpool." Um, so as we were swimming past it, I set my watch and I swam hard for six hours. But about three hours in, um, I got stung by a jellyfish. And I've been stung by jellyfish a lot before. It's just, you know, it's painful, but it was, it was bearable. Um, but this one particular jellyfish, it just, it was searing into my skin. It just, it wouldn't stop throbbing. And so I, I carried on swimming, three hours past, and, and it was just unbearable. So I popped my head up and I looked at Matt, the captain, from the boat. I said, "Matt, I'm so sorry. I've been stung. I'm g- you know, I'm gonna have to stop. Um, I've been stung by a jellyfish, but it's, the pain's just not going away." And as, as I said that to him, he looked down at me and he said, "Yeah, I know, 'cause the tentacle's still wrapped around your face." So I'd basically been swimming for three hours-

Joe Rogan 13:28 With a jellyfish on your face.

Ross Edgley 13:29 ... wearing a jellyfish-

Joe Rogan 13:31 Ugh.

Ross Edgley 13:32 ... so it had wrapped into my goggles. So I took my goggles off-

Joe Rogan 13:35 Ugh.

Ross Edgley 13:36 ... unpeeled this fat tentacle, threw it away, um, a- a- and then, like I said, I'll, I'll show you in a minute, I'll, I'll show you in a minute, but there was a picture where my, my face sort of changed shape and the goggles wouldn't fit on my face anymore because my, my eye sockets were so swelled. Um, but I knew that, again, for all of this happening, the Corryvreckan, the giant whirlpool was still to my left. So Matt was like, "You still need to swim. You still need to swim." So I ended up putting the goggles over my face and to try and get them to seal, I just punched them into my face so you just had these perfect ring, and then I managed to-

Joe Rogan 14:08 'Cause you were so swollen?

Ross Edgley 14:09 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 14:10 So you had to push them through the swelling?

Ross Edgley 14:12 Basically, (laughs) yeah. Yes.

Joe Rogan 14:13 Oh my God.

Ross Edgley 14:14 So you swim. Um, I made another hour. We, we got clear of the Corryvreckan, so we managed to clear this giant whirlpool. I collapse onto the boat, and, um, and this is the thing. It was at that point that I collapsed, exhausted, face now a different shape to when I started that particular swim. And, um, and the team looked at me, and they saw how bad I was, how, how beaten up I was, but they also knew that, that the sea just doesn't care, and in six hours, the tide was gonna change and I'd, uh, gonna have to do that all over again.

Joe Rogan 14:42 Wow.

Ross Edgley 14:42 And, and it was that kind of brutal lesson from nature that, that from a sports science background, I'm interested in, you know, rehab, rest, recovery, nutrition strategies, all of this. But with swimming around Great Britain, it, it very quickly became apparent that the sea just doesn't care. It just doesn't care that, that you need to rehab your shoulders. It doesn't care that the ligaments and tendons in your shoulders are hurting, you might get impingement from swimming too much. You know, none of this. And, um, that's why it went from swimming, as I understood it and how a lot of people understand it, to something completely like surviving, basically, in the water.

Joe Rogan 15:20 So your swimming schedule would be six hours on, and then you would try to rest. When would you eat?

Ross Edgley 15:26 Uh, during the swims or, or, or between? And-

Joe Rogan 15:29 During the swims?

Ross Edgley 15:30 Yeah. Yeah, so quite often just, you know, throwing bananas at me and, and just-

Joe Rogan 15:34 Wow.

Ross Edgley 15:35 ... uh, you know-

Joe Rogan 15:35 Salty bananas?

Ross Edgley 15:36 (laughs) Basically, yeah. Yeah, just salty bana- and-

Joe Rogan 15:39 And you would eat them while you were in the water?

Ross Edgley 15:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 15:41 Wow.

Ross Edgley 15:41 Yeah, 'cause, 'cause again, going back to what we were talking about with the Pendle Firth, you could get out and you could get on the boat, but sometimes, in a really good tide, if you are just in the water, you could be making four knots. You don't have to swim, but if you get in the freezing cold water of Scotland and you are quite happy getting hit in the face by tentacles, you can still make four knots. And so that's why so often it became about, uh, something different than swimming. It was just, it was just mental fortitude, it was physical fortitude, it was, um, basically... And, and I always remember actually, uh, first day of autumn, um, I got up, it was two o'clock, so it was a night swim, two o'clock in the morning, and I left my wetsuit out to, to dry. And, um, I had to scrape just a thin layer of ice off the wetsuit before I could put it on.

Joe Rogan 16:27 (laughs)

Ross Edgley 16:27 (laughs) But if I didn't, if I didn't get in and I didn't scrape that, that, that wetsuit, then that would've been, you know, 15 miles potentially that we would've missed out on. And if-

Joe Rogan 16:36 Mm.

Ross Edgley 16:36 ... you miss those 15 miles, the, the window of opportunity to swim around Great Britain because of the British summer being notoriously unpredictable and quite short, um, we wouldn't have made it round. Because even towards the end, there was two storms, uh, Storm Alan and Storm Callie, uh, uh, Ali and Calum, who kind of stopped us for those two days where we couldn't swim 'cause you, you just couldn't swim in a storm. It wasn't safe.

Joe Rogan 17:00 So when you were swimming, this was all during the summer?

Ross Edgley 17:03 Yeah, yeah, uh, through the autumn, and then we finished November the 4th, which was going into the winter-

Joe Rogan 17:07 Oh.

Ross Edgley 17:08 ... as well. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:08 And you started what month?

Ross Edgley 17:10 Uh, June the 1st. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:11 So for, since June, you've been swimming?

Ross Edgley 17:14 Yeah, basically. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:15 God damn, man.

Ross Edgley 17:17 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:17 That's so crazy.

Ross Edgley 17:20 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 17:20 You know what's interesting too? You're not built like a guy I'd expect to be doing this.

Ross Edgley 17:24 Right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:25 You're built, you're built like a tank.

Ross Edgley 17:26 Right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:26 Like, that's not normal. Like, you're a big jack guy.

Ross Edgley 17:29 Right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:29 You, you look more like an MMA fighter or powerlifter even.

Ross Edgley 17:33 Right.

Joe Rogan 17:33 Like, you don't look like an endurance athlete.

Ross Edgley 17:35 Yeah, which is... And, and we were just, we were speaking about this 'cause I, I love the episode with you and CT Fletcher.

Joe Rogan 17:40 I love that guy.

Ross Edgley 17:41 I, I loved that. And, and, uh, you know, was a big fan of, you know, Cal-

Joe Rogan 17:44 Well, there you are. Look at this fucking picture.

Ross Edgley 17:46 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:46 Yo, dude. Get the fuck outta here.

Ross Edgley 17:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 17:49 If someone said that guy's gonna swim around Great Brit- I'd be like, "That guy's gonna swim for half an hour and then he's gonna have a fucking heart attack."

Ross Edgley 17:55 No, you're right. There, there was a lot... Yeah. I, and I would probably be inclined to agree with you. But what I find interesting is when you start looking at, um, so strength and stamina...For so often-

Joe Rogan 18:03 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 18:04 ... people believed the two couldn't co-exist, you know?

Joe Rogan 18:06 Right.

Ross Edgley 18:06 And, uh, Robert Hixon, uh, and his, his, uh, sort of research around concurrent training, that, um, basically saying if, if you train for strength and stamina, you dilute the potency of the stimuli. So what, what I mean by that is if, you know, we went into the gym just now, and, uh, you know, m- me, you, and Jamie walked into the gym, and we were like, "Okay, okay. Let's, let's go and see, uh, what we're doing on, uh, you know, in the squat rack." You know, that's strength, your body's ability to generate force. And we train that, and then all of a sudden, I was like, "Okay. No, no, no. Now let's go over to the rowing machine, or let's go for a swim. Let's go and swim 10K." Then all of a sudden, our bodies are gonna go, "Well, hang on. Which one do you want us to adapt to? You know, looking at, you know, molecular biology, which one do you want us to adapt to, strength or stamina?" And again, you dilute the potency of that stimuli. However, there's the theory that if you separate them, within the... Ver- I'm going off on a little bit of a tangent here, but-

Joe Rogan 18:55 No, please.

Ross Edgley 18:55 (laughs) Thank you.

Joe Rogan 18:56 It's good.

Ross Edgley 18:57 Looking at, um, Verkhoshansky, so one of the greatest conditioning coaches to ever exist, he talks about this idea of adaptive energy, saying that in any given day, you have a certain amount of adaptive energy. And if you are able to fit both a, a training session that, that, like I said, causes your body to adapt to both strength and stamina, and you separate them, under those conditions, they can co-exist.

Joe Rogan 19:20 So you separate them by how much time?

Ross Edgley 19:22 As much as needed for optimal recovery.

Joe Rogan 19:24 Right.

Ross Edgley 19:24 So, so yeah. If, if we did... And this is the, this is what I find fascinating about MMA, 'cause you're essentially saying to an MMA athlete, "I need you to be strong, fast, quick. I need you to be muscularly endured, but I also need you to have plyometric speed strength."

Joe Rogan 19:38 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 19:39 And their body's going, "You want us to be all of those things."

Joe Rogan 19:41 Right.

Ross Edgley 19:42 You know, and that's why quite often it's the athlete with a higher work capacity who can, you know, adapt to those, looking at, like, you know, the Diaz brothers, who just do triathlons for fun.

Joe Rogan 19:51 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 19:51 You know, they have this insane work capacity, you know, so, so that's kind of your, your body's ability to perform and positively tolerate training of a given intensity or duration.

Joe Rogan 20:00 Right.

Ross Edgley 20:01 So if you have the Diaz brothers, and you say, "Okay, we're gonna now do weight training in the morning, but by the afternoon, I also need to go and swim a 10K," their bodies could tolerate that. Whereas if you have another athlete who perhaps, you know, doesn't have that work capacity, their body's not gonna positively tolerate it.

Joe Rogan 20:16 Right, a person who's used to working out maybe only an hour a day.

Ross Edgley 20:19 Yeah, absolutely.

Joe Rogan 20:20 Yeah.

Ross Edgley 20:21 So, so that's essentially how I would, would, uh, approach anything like this. But what I found really interesting when you were talking, um, with, with CT Fletcher was when you look at strength and stamina, it's, it's so specific, so, you know, SAID principle, specific adaptation to imposed demands, you know, you get good at whatever you continually practice. And when you look at endurance in weight-bearing sports, absolutely, you know, you can argue that, that running, for instance, is, is just, you know, power-to-weight ratio. It's, it's a series of successive jumps. Um, and when you start looking at that, there's research that will show adding... Uh, we, we did this with the Royal Marines back in England. When you just add one kilo of extra weight in a backpack, its effect on pulmonary ventilation, lactic threshold, time to fatigue, all of those things. Just one, one kilogram. That's it. And so that's why when you see Tour de France and people like Chris Froome, Bradley Wiggins, you know, from Team Sky, they are just looking at the body saying, "Okay, your VO2 is what it is. Your power to, your power-to-weight ratio, that's what we need to improve. We need to treat you like a Formula One car."

Joe Rogan 21:23 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 21:23 "We need to take away anything..." You know, so when you look at Chris Froome, you know, an unbelievable athlete, and they say, "Well, look, you don't need biceps. You don't need triceps," so they will remove those.

Joe Rogan 21:31 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 21:31 Controlled muscular atrophy. Um-

Joe Rogan 21:34 And how do they approach that?

Ross Edgley 21:36 Intelligently, I, I suppose, looking at anything from, you know, a calorie deficit-

Joe Rogan 21:40 Just tell him not to pick anything up ever?

Ross Edgley 21:42 Kinda, yeah.

Joe Rogan 21:43 (laughs)

Ross Edgley 21:43 And it's just... (laughs) Exactly.

Joe Rogan 21:46 That's crazy. There it is.

Ross Edgley 21:47 Th- th- there you go.

Joe Rogan 21:48 Got no triceps. They don't... They went away.

Ross Edgley 21:50 Exactly. But I mean, that is, that is the perfect example of, you know, you know, SAID principle, specific adaptation to imposed demands, that all he does is he lives on a bike. So as a result, his body is, is a byproduct of what he continually practices.

Joe Rogan 22:05 Just got bike muscles.

Ross Edgley 22:06 Yeah. Yeah. And so, so looking at that, and, and sorry, going back to strength and stamina, when you look at running, you could argue that, you know, being jacked and, and being heavier, yes, absolutely, your power-to-weight ratio is gonna impact you. So for instance, I like to run, but I don't stand a chance against some of my friends who are, you know, fellow runners, and they weigh, you know, 30 kilos less than me. However-

Joe Rogan 22:29 Like Rich, Rich Roll.

Ross Edgley 22:30 Exactly. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 22:31 Thin, thin, lean, long guy.

Ross Edgley 22:33 Just, yeah, you look at him-

Joe Rogan 22:34 Yeah.

Ross Edgley 22:34 ... unbelievable specimen of a man. You go, "Yes, you were built for endurance."

Joe Rogan 22:38 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 22:38 But soon as you go in the water, things might start to change a little bit, 'cause now it's non-weight-bearing-

Joe Rogan 22:43 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 22:43 ... so the power-to-weight ratio is a little bit different. So then, you could arg- and this is all theory for the moment, but looking at the body shape to swim around Great Britain, 'cause no one's ever done it before. So you can say, "Okay, well, what does that body type look like?" And when writing down a checklist, you say, "We need someone who can swim in, you know, 40 knots of wind, wind over tide," that we're talking about, so you're not gonna break. Um, on top of that as well, you can start to look at, um, all of a sudden, we need someone who's never gonna take a day off. So I, I wasn't sick throughout those 157 days. So there you start looking at adaptive energy and, and work capacity that we just spoke about. And then all of a sudden you can start getting real in- into the detail of looking at, okay, someone with a higher muscle mass, if they're able to effectively swim and their biomechanics are, are, are on point, so that's not... You know, this muscle mass isn't interfering with their biomechanics, could it be argued that that stored muscle glycogen can almost turn them into a human whale? You know, that, yeah, you're right, you put me into the pool with Michael Phelps, and he laps me. You know, he, he... To look at him swim, it's unbelie- he looks like a dolphin. It's, it's-

Joe Rogan 23:49 Right.

Ross Edgley 23:49 ... beautiful. But when it comes to something like swimming around in Great Britain, it's just, it's just an eating competition, you know, with a little bit of swimming involved, and you just need to make sure you don't break. And that goes back to the tides as well, your body working with tides. If you can just keep getting in the water for 157 days, 12 hours a day, and not break-... you'll make it where I'm Great Britain-based.

Joe Rogan 24:12 So, you think the muscle mass aids you in that way?

Ross Edgley 24:15 I would argue, yes. Yeah. I mean, and I've s- this is purely anecdotal.

Joe Rogan 24:19 Right.

Ross Edgley 24:19 And I'd love to actually do more research into this, but, but certainly with a lot of athletes that I train with, the- it's almost like a bell curve. So, if you can imagine, you know, for those listening, like, a- a bell curve like that. How would you describe that, Jo- just-

Joe Rogan 24:32 Um, just a- like a horseshoe.

Ross Edgley 24:34 Yeah. Yeah. So, you can argue that here, around endurance, so if you've got somebody who's, you know, to use Rich Rollins as an example, an amazing swimmer, over 10K he's gonna be amazing because of his efficiency and everything. But then, past this point, so when we start looking at the mileage that we were covering, so we're l- sort of English channel swimmers, 20 miles plus a day, at this point this leaner swimmer's gonna start running out of muscle glycogen.

Joe Rogan 24:57 Mm.

Ross Edgley 24:57 His biomechanics might break down because he doesn't have the strength to hold that position continually. All of those things. The waves start crashing in, he's starting to swim into 40 knots of wind. What's gonna happen? Are you gonna be, uh, would you favor the- the leaner, quicker, more streamlined swimmer or would you argue that the guy with more muscle mass here is gonna continue to swim? Not necessarily at the same pace, but would continue not to break.

Joe Rogan 25:20 I think it depends on who the man with the muscle mass is, because a lot of guys with muscle mass, they got that muscle mass from doing very low reps, high weight. I mean, what- what kind of exercise do you do that gives you a build like that?

Ross Edgley 25:33 See, n- and that's a good point. I mean, I loved what you did with, um, with Dorian Yates, and, um, I think when you start looking at the- the three mechanisms to build muscular hypertrophy, you start looking at, um, metabolic stress. So, um, metabolic stress being exactly what you just said, lots and lots of reps. Dorian Yates being a great example of that. That is more muscular hypertrophy. Bodybuilding-centric work-

Joe Rogan 25:56 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 25:56 ... okay, that's metabolic stress, lots and lots of reps. Um, but then you can also look at mechanical tension, so that's more your powerlifters. You know, really, really high weight, lower volume, just real strength. Your body's ability to generate force. That is what I do. Um, and yes, it's shown to induce muscular hypertrophy, so to increase muscle mass, but arguably more functional, you know, than when you- you'd be looking at a, you know, bodybuilder, Mr Olympia, something like that. And then you have, uh, muscle damage which is more eccentric contractions, so more arguably sort of CrossFit, you know-

Joe Rogan 26:28 So, a bodybuilder to achieve that physique besides using steroids, they have to use lots of repetitions?

Ross Edgley 26:35 Yes.

Joe Rogan 26:35 Is that- is that the idea?

Ross Edgley 26:36 Yeah, that's it. So- so when you say what do- do I specifically use-

Joe Rogan 26:39 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 26:40 ... it's more mechanical tension. So-

Joe Rogan 26:41 So, it's more powerlifting, cleans, deadlifts, things along those lines?

Ross Edgley 26:45 It's exactly it.

Joe Rogan 26:46 Yeah?

Ross Edgley 26:47 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:47 Yeah. 'Cause you're not built like a bodybuilder, but you're- you're built like someone who's very strong.

Ross Edgley 26:51 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 26:51 Yeah.

Ross Edgley 26:52 And- and I think that's it, where you start. And- and- and that's not to say, you know, when you look at, you know, to- to use you as an example, s- so if we had you in the sports lab, we would say, "Okay, what is your strength deficit?" So, your strength deficit is- is, I- you know, say we had you on, you know, the leg press and we said, "Joe, we wanna- we wanna look at how much force your legs can generate with you just using basically your training strength." Your training strength is defined as the strength that you would use just leg pressing, not getting you all, like, psyched on pre-workout, smelling salts, none of that.

Joe Rogan 27:23 (laughs)

Ross Edgley 27:23 We would just say, "Joe, go and leg press."

Joe Rogan 27:26 Right.

Ross Edgley 27:26 And you'd just leg press. And that's what you can generate there. But then, in the sports lab back at Loughborough University, we would start using, uh, basically, e- e- electric, basically using electrical impulses to- to make the muscles contract beyond what you could generate yourself. So, that is, what your body could generate without you trying to send those impulses to the body, it's you- the actual- the actual potential muscle, the- the strength of the muscles themselves.

Joe Rogan 27:50 How do you determine that?

Ross Edgley 27:52 Like I said, basically, um, electrocuting the muscles and stimulating-

Joe Rogan 27:56 Whoa.

Ross Edgley 27:56 ... involuntarily.

Joe Rogan 27:57 And through that, do they measure it? How?

Ross Edgley 28:00 So... Oh, so then that measures your a- uh, your maximal output with you not trying to use it yourself. It's involuntary. So, that is something that you wouldn't have control over. I-

Joe Rogan 28:09 So, they s- what do they- how do they do that?

Ross Edgley 28:12 Like, essentially electrocuting you.

Joe Rogan 28:14 But what kind of... What is it, like electrodes that slap on your legs?

Ross Edgley 28:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:17 And they force you to extend your legs?

Ross Edgley 28:19 Yeah, you would've seen it. Yeah, exactly that.

Joe Rogan 28:21 But that- you lift a weight with that?

Ross Edgley 28:23 Yeah, you can do. Yeah, or-

Joe Rogan 28:24 That's- so that's what they do?

Ross Edgley 28:25 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:26 I've never heard of such a thing.

Ross Edgley 28:27 Yes.

Joe Rogan 28:28 So, you would s- be sitting in a leg press-

Ross Edgley 28:30 Oh, or anything.

Joe Rogan 28:31 ... and they would jolt your legs.

Ross Edgley 28:32 So, quad extensions and-

Joe Rogan 28:33 And it would make your legs extend?

Ross Edgley 28:35 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 28:35 Wow.

Ross Edgley 28:36 So, they would monitor your strength. So, the- so the difference between that-

Joe Rogan 28:40 Right.

Ross Edgley 28:40 So, all of a sudden they'll say, "Okay, this over here, your training strength, is what you could do, Joe, when I was just saying, 'Okay, lift that.'"

Joe Rogan 28:46 Right.

Ross Edgley 28:47 And it's what you were going, "Okay, I'll lift it." And then over here, when it's involuntary, that is what you could actually do. That's the potential of the muscles.

Joe Rogan 28:56 What's usually the higher number?

Ross Edgley 28:58 Oh, absolute- well, so it's always involuntary.

Joe Rogan 29:00 Really?

Ross Edgley 29:01 Always. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

Joe Rogan 29:02 By how much?

Ross Edgley 29:03 Well- and that's the strength deficit.

Joe Rogan 29:04 Mm.

Ross Edgley 29:05 So, do you see what I mean? So, okay, so over here, this is what you could generate when you're just going, "Okay. One, two, three," and I'm lifting it myself. Ahh. Okay, that done. And over here is what we do when it's involuntary.

Joe Rogan 29:14 Mm.

Ross Edgley 29:14 Now, if there's a big deficit... Okay, so if there's a huge deficit between the two-

Joe Rogan 29:19 That means you're a pussy?

Ross Edgley 29:22 (laughs) It mean- it means...

Joe Rogan 29:24 (laughs)

Ross Edgley 29:24 Oh, your words, not mine.

Joe Rogan 29:26 (laughs)

Ross Edgley 29:26 (laughs) It means if there's a large deficit between the two, it means that you have muscle mass but you're not fully using it.

Joe Rogan 29:32 Right.

Ross Edgley 29:33 So, you might see a large deficit between the two if you had, um, a bodybuilder for instance, 'cause they've got a lot of muscle mass but they're not using it. Does that make sense? So, they're-

Joe Rogan 29:42 Wh- why aren't they using it?

Ross Edgley 29:43 Because it's- it's strength is functional.

Joe Rogan 29:46 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 29:46 So, they've got all this muscle mass but they're not recruiting it, they've not actually trained strength, 'cause strength is neuromuscular.

Joe Rogan 29:52 So when a bodybuilder does, like, high repetitions and- what was the type of load that you were calling that how they were- y- that was, uh, causing hypertrophy?

Ross Edgley 30:02 So, that's metabolic stress.

Joe Rogan 30:03 Metabolic stress?

Ross Edgley 30:04 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:04 So, just a sheer number of sets-

Ross Edgley 30:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 30:07 ... just constant repetitions over and over and over again with not that high a weight.

Ross Edgley 30:12 Yes. Yeah, and that's metabolic. But then mechanical tension is when, um, it's more powerlifting-esque.

Joe Rogan 30:17 Right.

Ross Edgley 30:18 So there's your difference between the two.

Joe Rogan 30:20 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 30:20 So, the reason being is meta- but- so when you start looking at mechanical tension, that might produce an athlete who has a smaller strength deficit.

Joe Rogan 30:29 Right.

Ross Edgley 30:29 So, when, again, using you as an example, if there was a smaller strength deficit between what you could voluntarily leg press, you know, leg extension, hamstring extension, and then involuntary, there's a smaller deficit. It would like, it w- I would liken it to, "Okay, Joe. You have this much muscle mass, but you're using a lot of your potential. You're using it already."

Joe Rogan 30:50 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 30:50 It's almost like you've got a- a Formula One car with a huge engine, but you're using it to its full extent, you know? And- and this is why, I'm going off on a slight tangent here, but this is why when you start looking at bodybuilding-centric work, so this idea of increasing muscular hypertrophy, it can be a good thing when you understand that strength deficit. So, you might have an athlete who you go, "Okay, you have a small strength deficit. It's very small. So for the muscle mass that you have, you're using it to its absolute full potential." It's like you have a very small car, but you are just pushing down the accelerator so hard-

Joe Rogan 31:26 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 31:26 ... and it can't go anymore.

Joe Rogan 31:27 It's just red-lined.

Ross Edgley 31:29 Exactly. So the option that we have is to increase the size of the car. The option we have is to increase the size of your muscle mass.

Joe Rogan 31:34 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 31:35 Does that make sense?

Joe Rogan 31:35 It does.

Ross Edgley 31:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 31:36 It does. Um, what kind of training were you doing to increase your capacity for work while maintaining the mass?

Ross Edgley 31:45 Yeah. And this- this goes (laughs) , it's a bit of a strange story. So this goes back to something I almost call, um, you know, horsepower programming, which I think is- is so often lost now. I think training is very specific. When you go into the gym, are you training for strength, speed, stamina? Whereas horsepower programming, I- I almost borrowed from, um, Soviet Union principles. So you start looking at, uh, general physical preparedness as it was- as it was known. And this is this just idea of you take an athlete, certainly a younger athlete, and you're trying to increase their work capacity by non-specific movements. So, you'll get, uh, you know, an athlete, you're handed... I- imagine, okay, you're- you're a young, uh, kid just growing up and- and your parents hand you to me. I'm your coach. And I say, "Okay. I don't know if Joe's gonna be big, strong. I don't know if he's gonna be able to run far or fast. I don't know. So what we're gonna do is just cre- increase your sort of neuromuscular efficiency and work capacity." And so by doing that, it's kind of jumps, throws, non-specific, these natural movement patterns. And we get you to do lots and lots of this. What that's doing is- is work capacity, your body's ability to- to positively tolerate training and given its intensity or duration. And I think from the Great British Swim, when a lot of people will say, "How was it that you were able to tolerate those 12 hours a day, the jellyfish stings and everything?" It, for me, one of the biggest things was going back to, and this is gonna sound so odd, but I, um, I ran a marathon pulling a car, uh, three, three years ago, I think now. Um, and so that is almost the perfect embodiment of horsepower programming, in that that sheer stress on the body, but it's not a specific skill.

Joe Rogan 33:22 When you say you ran a marathon behind a car...

Ross Edgley 33:25 Uh, pulling a car.

Joe Rogan 33:26 You mean pulling a car.

Ross Edgley 33:27 Uh, pulling a car.

Joe Rogan 33:27 So in front of a car.

Ross Edgley 33:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 33:29 Not behind a car.

Ross Edgley 33:30 No, yeah. So it was, um-

Joe Rogan 33:31 You pulled a car and ran a marathon?

Ross Edgley 33:33 Yeah. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:34 What the fuck, dude?

Ross Edgley 33:36 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:36 Look at you.

Ross Edgley 33:37 No, so yeah, I- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:39 You seem so normal.

Ross Edgley 33:41 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:41 That's what's so confusing to me. Like if I met you, I-

Ross Edgley 33:44 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 33:44 There's something about a lot of these endurance people. Well, I guess not Courtney, Courtney Dauwalter, she's so carefree and silly, but you're very loose and relaxed. I always consider like those people, like dark, there's some darkness to those extreme endurance athletes.

Ross Edgley 34:01 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 34:02 There's darkness that they're, they're running from some darkness.

Ross Edgley 34:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 34:06 You know what I mean?

Ross Edgley 34:07 No, I do. I've- and I've had this conversation with a few people because they said something similar, and I think it's, um, I mean, you know, to slightly go off on- on another tangent here, because I think we've covered the physical aspect and- and work capacity, which- which I've addressed, but, um, I think... And- and this is one thing I- I genuinely just wanted to almost quiz you on and get your thoughts on this, is, uh, certainly the, throughout the Great British Swim, it- it subjected my body to a fatigue like I've never experienced before. It was just-

Joe Rogan 34:36 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 34:36 Yeah, sleep deprivation, just ligaments, tendons in my shoulders, just wondering what was going on. And, um, for me, you almost develop a- a- a split personality in that there's times when I- I'd quite often say you need to swim with a smile because, you know, it's 157 days. If you're stressed or it's like a marathon where you grit your teeth and you try and get through it, um, I think we're very aware that, you know, the body is this complex biochemical organism. And if you're stressed, cortisol levels spike, inflammation, your immune system, everything's affected. So for me, I was treating it not like a marathon. I had to treat it swim with a smile, you know, think this is, this is life now-

Joe Rogan 35:13 Right.

Ross Edgley 35:14 ... you know, see? Um, but then equally, there were times when, you know, I- I wouldn't swim with a smile. It was just, you know, Corey Vechon being a great example, you know, I certainly wasn't all that happy then. And- and for me, it's those times when I- I say, "You've got to just get feral." You know, you've really just got to... And a good friend of mine, you know, back in, back in England, um, uh, SAS-trained, and he said to me, "Ross, you're- you're a really nice guy and everything, but there's gonna be times when you just need to, you know, no smiles and just get feral." Which- which I, thinking about it and- and because I had 12 hours to think a day, I was mulling this over in my head.

Joe Rogan 35:52 (laughs)

Ross Edgley 35:52 Um, for me, it- it goes back to Tim Noakes' central governor theory?

Joe Rogan 35:56 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 35:57 Um, looking at how fatigue is a- is an emotionally driven state that we use to pull that physiological handbrake. So, uh, you know, for those listening sort of 16 miles into a marathon, you might be saying, "No way, I can't keep putting one foot in front of the other. There's no way." Um, and then all of a sudden, 25 miles in, your family and friends are clapping you and you get that second wind and you start sprinting.

Joe Rogan 36:17 Yes.

Ross Edgley 36:17 Um, and for me, looking at that, the sort of central governor theory-I found that in complete exhaustion, like, when- when you absolutely have nothing left, you almost go into this feral state, you know? So like a- like- like an injured dog-

Joe Rogan 36:33 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 36:33 ... you know, where a lot of people will say, "Oh," you know, "remember why you started. Think of your family and friends." And I was like, "No, no, no." I was at a level of fatigue where I wasn't thinking about, you know, family and friends. It- I- I was thinking almost, you know, Maslow's hierarchy of needs, where it starts with just food, shelter, oxygen. I was at that sort of level, where there was sea ulcers. I mean, my neck's kinda healed now but, you know, there was times when chafing on my neck, my- my tongue was falling a- it's fine now, by the way, Joe. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:05 Your tongue was falling apart?

Ross Edgley 37:06 My tongue was f-

Joe Rogan 37:07 From the s- salt water?

Ross Edgley 37:08 Yeah. Yeah. And- and-

Joe Rogan 37:10 Falling apart, like, how so?

Ross Edgley 37:12 It- y- it's what is called salt tongue. And after 12 hours in the water every single day, um, you- your- your tongue would essentially start to disintegrate. So-

Joe Rogan 37:20 Oh, Jesus.

Ross Edgley 37:21 Yeah, nice. (laughs) So I was- I woke up and there was parts of my tongue on my pillow, and-

Joe Rogan 37:26 Oh.

Ross Edgley 37:27 Yeah. No, so (laughs) this is-

Joe Rogan 37:29 Is there any concern that this is permanent, or it was permanent at the time? Were you concerned?

Ross Edgley 37:33 A- a- absolutely. And- and I think that's-

Joe Rogan 37:35 Oh, Jesus Christ, bro.

Ross Edgley 37:35 ... that's- (laughs) that's-

Joe Rogan 37:36 (laughs)

Ross Edgley 37:37 But that's what goes back to that- that hierarchy of needs, where you're not thinking about family and friends, or what motivates you, and what, you know, you're... No, you're thinking, "I wanna keep my tongue." You know? You're like-

Joe Rogan 37:48 Yeah.

Ross Edgley 37:48 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:48 Fuck, man.

Ross Edgley 37:49 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 37:50 Thi- 'cause no one has really... Has... Uh, people have gone on long swims before-

Ross Edgley 37:54 (coughs)

Joe Rogan 37:54 ... but has anybody done six months?

Ross Edgley 37:56 (smacks lips) I don't think so. There- there, um, there's Ben Lecomte at the moment who's going across the Pacific, but he, uh, is using a snorkel, so he kind of-

Joe Rogan 38:05 Oh, right.

Ross Edgley 38:05 ... cleverly (laughs) -

Joe Rogan 38:05 Yeah.

Ross Edgley 38:06 ... thought about that, whereas for me, I- I thought, "No, this has to be done without a-"

Joe Rogan 38:10 Properly. Were you thinking about the guy who's just doing the breast stroke-

Ross Edgley 38:13 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 38:13 ... and saying, "Well, if he did it, fuck."

Ross Edgley 38:15 Captain Win, this is it. Yeah, it was.

Joe Rogan 38:18 Wow.

Ross Edgley 38:19 So yeah, so no, that, and- and it was at that point that I think, um, you- you are feral, you know?

Joe Rogan 38:24 Yeah.

Ross Edgley 38:24 You're just thinking, "I-"

Joe Rogan 38:25 Survive.

Ross Edgley 38:26 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:27 One- one arm in front of the other, keep going, keep moving.

Ross Edgley 38:29 'Cause it... Exactly that, you are so des-

Joe Rogan 38:30 Wow, so here-

Ross Edgley 38:32 Oh, yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:32 ... there's pieces of your tongue. This is a video that you made where pieces of your tongue were falling apart. Wow. The effect of salt buildup on the tongue.

Ross Edgley 38:40 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 38:40 And this is on Ross's Instagram, which- which is rossedgley. I, uh, put it up on my Instagram too. I re- retweeted or reposted one of your, uh, things to let people know about this. Oh, that is so nasty, dude.

Ross Edgley 38:57 That was bad. There, you can see the taste buds on it. That's how thick this-

Joe Rogan 39:00 So was it fucking with your taste buds?

Ross Edgley 39:02 Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 39:03 Like, the way you tasted things?

Ross Edgley 39:04 Oh, yeah. And- and- and that started to have an impact on, you know, the food as well.

Joe Rogan 39:08 Yeah.

Ross Edgley 39:08 'Cause I mean, like, granola, I was eating so much granola, but when then that happened, it's like s- rubbing sandpaper on an open wound.

Joe Rogan 39:15 Oh, yeah, right?

Ross Edgley 39:15 The- the-

Joe Rogan 39:15 It's the grit and the- the oats.

Ross Edgley 39:17 Exactly. So, uh, a- and that was how we had to just adapt on the day. So- so it's during that, that video's great actually. I mean, that was in the cabin. And I remember just thinking, like, now I'm not thinking, you know, family and friends. So to talk about those, as you just said, those- those darker moments, I think now it's very easy for me to be very grateful. I'm warm, sitting in the studio with you. There's- there's no jellyfish.

Joe Rogan 39:38 (laughs)

Ross Edgley 39:39 But there's times there where, you know, it was dark on my neck as well. I mean, my neck was bad, but we didn't actually catch... The- the- the moment was probably the worst on that, where I went to bed with this open wound from the wetsuit chafing, basically, and, um, as I woke up, the- the bed sheet had fused to my neck.

Joe Rogan 39:57 Ooh.

Ross Edgley 39:58 So I just had to rip- rip it off.

Joe Rogan 39:59 Rip it off? Oh, from the pus on your neck?

Ross Edgley 40:01 And- to... (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:02 Oh, Jesus Christ, son.

Ross Edgley 40:06 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:06 (laughs)

Ross Edgley 40:07 (sighs) Oh, God.

Joe Rogan 40:08 And then you had to get in that salt water, which must've felt great.

Ross Edgley 40:10 Right, yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:11 Fuck, man.

Ross Edgley 40:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 40:13 What was it like when you finished? What did it feel like when the last stroke, when you got out of the water-

Ross Edgley 40:21 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 40:21 ... and you're like, "Holy shit, I just swam for six months"?

Ross Edgley 40:24 It was, yeah, it was- it was so strange because when we left in June, we came back obviously to the same point, and we left in the British summer, and everyone was on the beach, and- and then I came back round, people were putting up Christmas decorations, and I was like, "W-" I'd- I'd been gone for so long at sea.

Joe Rogan 40:41 (laughs)

Ross Edgley 40:41 It was just...

Joe Rogan 40:42 That's so crazy.

Ross Edgley 40:44 It...

Joe Rogan 40:44 How many days was it total?

Ross Edgley 40:45 157.

Joe Rogan 40:47 Oh my God.

Ross Edgley 40:47 Yeah, s-

Joe Rogan 40:48 That is so insane.

Ross Edgley 40:49 It just, so much change, and oh, here, yeah, here we go. That was the- the finish, so this is swimming back then.

Joe Rogan 40:54 So this is you at the... Who are these people, these fucking hangers on, following you around, pretending they did it too?

Ross Edgley 41:00 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:00 "Oh, he's Ross."

Ross Edgley 41:01 No, no, no, it's... I- I-

Joe Rogan 41:02 "Ross, Ross is my friend."

Ross Edgley 41:04 (laughs) So I felt that- that it was such a- a- a team effort. I'm-

Joe Rogan 41:07 Look at all those people waiting for you.

Ross Edgley 41:09 My legs were so shaky, Joe. I was, at this point I'm thinking, "Don't fall over. Don't fall over."

Joe Rogan 41:13 Wow.

Ross Edgley 41:13 Because it has, I mean, this is the thing, uh, I think I stumble in a little minute.

Joe Rogan 41:16 That is such madness, man.

Ross Edgley 41:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:19 That is such madness, and you crossed the Red Bull finish line.

Ross Edgley 41:22 I got a trident. That was pretty cool.

Joe Rogan 41:24 Wow.

Ross Edgley 41:24 That's at home at the moment.

Joe Rogan 41:25 Oh, they hooked you up?

Ross Edgley 41:27 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 41:27 What's that made out of?

Ross Edgley 41:28 It was really sturdy. I don't know, I think it was like a bronze type thing, but-

Joe Rogan 41:33 (laughs)

Ross Edgley 41:33 ... this, th-

Joe Rogan 41:33 Who are these fucking phonies?

Ross Edgley 41:35 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 41:35 You didn't do it with them. Get out of the water-

Ross Edgley 41:39 No, no, I- I-

Joe Rogan 41:39 ... you fucking posers.

Ross Edgley 41:40 (laughs) But I- I said, I was like-

Joe Rogan 41:42 (laughs)

Ross Edgley 41:42 ... "I feel that- that the way that it- it captured everyone's imagi-" it just only felt right, you know.

Joe Rogan 41:47 Um, I get it. Yeah.

Ross Edgley 41:48 To do that. Do you swim?

Joe Rogan 41:49 Yes.

Ross Edgley 41:49 You do?

Joe Rogan 41:50 Yeah.

Ross Edgley 41:50 What, k-

Joe Rogan 41:51 Just in the pool.

Ross Edgley 41:52 Why didn't you come and get involved?

Joe Rogan 41:53 Oh, I didn't even know about it.

Ross Edgley 41:54 (laughs) Right?

Joe Rogan 41:54 You know how I found out about you? 'Cause I was, I- I was reading on the internet and I found out about it, and I sent it to all my friends after Sober October to show what pussies we were.

Ross Edgley 42:02 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:03 I was like, "You guys think what we did was hard? Hey, what we did ain't shit."

Ross Edgley 42:06 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:06 And I sent it to Tom, and Bert, and Ari, and we were all just like, "Fuck."

Ross Edgley 42:11 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:11 'Cause whenever you hear-

Ross Edgley 42:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:12 ... about someone doing something crazy, there's someone, always someone who does something far crazier to- to s- one up the crazy person.

Ross Edgley 42:20 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 42:20 And then it keeps going and going and going.Like, there's a race that Courtney Dauwalter, who's been a, um, a guest on the show before, she won the Moab 240, which is a 238-mile race through the Moab Mountains. And it's just an insane race. Not only did she win it, she won it by more than 10 hours ahead of the second place guy. And she's just a fucking straight savage. So, she recently entered a race and she came in second place. In this race, they would run for four miles in an hour, and then they would stop when the hour was over, they would stop, and then when the next hour started, they would run another four miles. Like, four-point something miles. And they would do it for six days.

Ross Edgley 43:04 That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 43:05 They did ... It was like the last man standing.

Ross Edgley 43:07 That's crazy.

Joe Rogan 43:07 And then at the very end, one person won. Like, it's like who's gonna drop out last? So, they just kept doing it. So, the guy who created this race, see if you can find anything on this guy-

Ross Edgley 43:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:18 ... because he's, he's apparently very sadistic.

Ross Edgley 43:20 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 43:20 And his idea was that people run these 100-mile races or a 50-mile race, and if you just finish, you feel like a winner. And he's like, "Well, bullshit." He goes, "There can't be a winner if, if somebody comes in first place and then you're, you're second place." You're not the winner.

Ross Edgley 43:36 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 43:36 It's like, there's one winner.

Ross Edgley 43:38 Oh, Berkeley Marathons.

Joe Rogan 43:39 Is that the guy?

Ross Edgley 43:39 Yes.

Jamie Vernon 43:40 Yeah. He's apparently chain smokes too.

Ross Edgley 43:42 He's ... He's amazing. So, this is the Berkeley Marathons. Do you know about this? Did you see last-

Jamie Vernon 43:45 It's the same guy. He ra- ... He created that race and this is another race he created.

Ross Edgley 43:49 And he's created another one?

Jamie Vernon 43:49 Yeah.

Ross Edgley 43:49 So, he's amazing. So, did you see, I think it was last year, uh, uh, Jamie, is it right that it's-

Joe Rogan 43:54 What's the ... Berkeley Marathon? What is that?

Ross Edgley 43:55 Is it the Berkeley or Barkley Marathon?

Jamie Vernon 43:56 Yeah, yeah, you got it.

Ross Edgley 43:57 Barkley.

Joe Rogan 43:58 Berkeley or Barkley?

Jamie Vernon 43:58 Uh ... (sighs)

Joe Rogan 44:00 Is the Barkley the one that nobody could figure out how to-

Ross Edgley 44:02 Yeah.

Jamie Vernon 44:02 Barkley, it's Barkley. Yeah, with an A.

Ross Edgley 44:04 Barkley Marathons.

Joe Rogan 44:04 That's the weird one, right?

Jamie Vernon 44:05 Yeah.

Ross Edgley 44:06 Yeah.

Jamie Vernon 44:06 Yeah.

Ross Edgley 44:06 And I think it was ... If you search this, Jamie, as well, I think it was last year or the year before, I believe it's the 24-hour race or 48 hours?

Joe Rogan 44:13 (coughs)

Ross Edgley 44:13 But the guy missed out on finishing it by, I think it was a minute.

Joe Rogan 44:17 Mm.

Ross Edgley 44:17 So, he ran-

Joe Rogan 44:18 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jamie Vernon 44:19 Yeah.

Ross Edgley 44:19 ... the entire ... And then at the end ... And you see him on the floor, he's absolutely devastated.

Joe Rogan 44:22 And he ... Didn't he m- take a wrong turn somewhere along the line?

Ross Edgley 44:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:26 'Cause it's really difficult to follow that-

Ross Edgley 44:28 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 44:28 ... that path. Yeah.

Ross Edgley 44:29 And, but admirably, he just got up and he, he shook his hand and just said, "I just want to thank you," you know, "for that." He said, "Sometimes, you know, the Barkley, Barkley Marathon wins," but, you know, that, that-

Joe Rogan 44:38 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 44:38 ... takes something different, right?

Joe Rogan 44:40 Well, definitely takes something different to, uh, uh, see if, uh, uh, find out if I'm correct in how they do it. I, I retweeted the Courtney Dauwalter one. I retweeted it from Courtney where it says it's like getting punched in the face very softly over and over-

Ross Edgley 44:55 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 44:55 ... and over again.

Jamie Vernon 44:56 Yep. That's exactly ... Yeah, I compare it to being punched-

Joe Rogan 44:58 Can you put it up, Dub?

Jamie Vernon 44:59 No, I'm sorry.

Joe Rogan 44:59 Can you put the article up?

Ross Edgley 45:00 Guys.

Jamie Vernon 45:00 Well, this is, uh-

Ross Edgley 45:00 So bad.

Jamie Vernon 45:01 ... a version of the article.

Ross Edgley 45:02 Nice.

Jamie Vernon 45:02 I don't know if it's the exact one you had.

Joe Rogan 45:04 Yeah, that's exactly it. So, if you scroll down, you'll see the, the, the specifications.

Ross Edgley 45:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 45:11 Yeah.

Ross Edgley 45:12 And yeah. And this is what I find amazing because then it becomes about something completely different. I mean, we were just talking now about Kipchoge and the two-hour marathon, but it's like if you put Kip- put Kipchoge into this, you know, who's gonna win?

Joe Rogan 45:27 Mm-hmm. Yeah, it says they had an hour to complete the 4.1667-mile loop, and then they finish within 15 minutes to spare. The bell clangs again at 7:40 AM and they run it again. And then at 8:40 AM they run it again. At 9:40 they run it again. So, every hour you run this 4.1667-mile loop and then it, the bell just keeps clanging forever.

Ross Edgley 45:55 So bad. That is so bad.

Joe Rogan 45:56 (laughs)

Ross Edgley 45:56 Why do you ... Why do you think there's more people doing these events now as well?

Joe Rogan 46:01 Well, I think it's the same thing as everything else. Uh, the same thing as if you, you buy a car today, you want it to accelerate from zero to 60 in two and a half seconds.

Ross Edgley 46:11 Right.

Joe Rogan 46:11 Yeah. A few years ago, that was unheard of.

Ross Edgley 46:13 Mm.

Joe Rogan 46:14 If you buy a computer today, you want it to be 3.8 gigahertz and (sniffs) five-terabyte hard drive and that's ... It's the same every year. We want improvements.

Ross Edgley 46:25 Right.

Joe Rogan 46:26 And I think when you hear someone's gonna run a 100-mile race, you go, "Oh, yeah, that's cute, uh, but I'm gonna run 200 miles." And they're like, "That's not even possible." It's the same as the four-minute mile.

Ross Edgley 46:35 Right.

Joe Rogan 46:36 Someone runs the 200 miles, you're like, "Holy shit, I can't believe a guy ran ... for three days, he ran 200 miles."

Ross Edgley 46:41 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:41 And then someone like Courtney comes along and goes, "I'm gonna do it in two days."

Ross Edgley 46:44 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:44 And they're like, "What?"

Ross Edgley 46:45 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 46:45 And then she runs, she runs it in two days. And then someone ... They're talking about now doing a 500-mile ultra-marathon.

Ross Edgley 46:52 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 46:52 Yeah.

Ross Edgley 46:53 But ... And what I find amazing, who ... what's the athlete look like? Who completes that? Do you know what I mean? It's, it's like-

Joe Rogan 46:58 Well, Courtney's very thin. She's very light and very-

Ross Edgley 47:01 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:01 ... thin.

Ross Edgley 47:01 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 47:01 And, you know, she's not the type of person that would win, uh, a regular marathon. This is what was interesting. My friend Cam Hanes who also runs these-

Ross Edgley 47:09 Amazing.

Joe Rogan 47:09 ... he ran the, uh-

Ross Edgley 47:10 And he's quite big.

Joe Rogan 47:11 He's pretty jacked.

Ross Edgley 47:12 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:12 Yeah, he works ... He lifts a lot.

Ross Edgley 47:13 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:14 But he cuts a lot of body weight when he does those.

Ross Edgley 47:16 Okay.

Joe Rogan 47:17 But the way he does it is he's a hard man.

Ross Edgley 47:19 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:19 He's what I was talking about, like those people that have darkness.

Ross Edgley 47:22 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:22 He's got some darkness. He just, like ... He'll burn 3000 calories, eat 2000. And so, he'll force his body to eat itself.

Ross Edgley 47:30 Right.

Joe Rogan 47:31 And so, he drops down to the 160-something-pound range and then that's what he likes to weigh. When he normally walks around, like, 185. He's pretty built.

Ross Edgley 47:39 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 47:40 But then he drops way down. He'll lose, like, 20 pounds of muscle 'cause he's always lean. He's not losing body fat. He's just forcing his body to literally eat itself just through mental toughness.

Ross Edgley 47:52 But he's still quite big.

Joe Rogan 47:53 Yeah.

Ross Edgley 47:54 Even, even when he's turning up on the start line and he's lost that, he's still-

Joe Rogan 47:56 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 47:56 ... big for an endurance athlete.

Joe Rogan 47:57 For an endurance athlete.

Ross Edgley 47:58 He's amazing.

Joe Rogan 47:58 But maybe that's one of the reasons why he doesn't win these things. He comes in, like, third, fourth. I mean, and also, you know, he hasn't been doing it as long as them and he's 51 years old now.

Ross Edgley 48:07 Wow.

Joe Rogan 48:07 But he's an animal, man. And if ... This is just, uh, that, that kind of m- mental fortitude that it takes to do one of those things or to do what you did-

Ross Edgley 48:16 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 48:17 ... it's a very unusual kind of drive. And people are very excited by that drive, and they're very intrigued by it, and it's very attractive. It's very attractive to attempt to do, it's very attractive to pay attention to and watch-

Ross Edgley 48:30 Mm.

Joe Rogan 48:30 ... 'cause everyone knows how difficult it is. Uh, it's undeniably difficult. Like, if someone says, "I ...... you talk to someone who doesn't know how to run at all. The- they don't do anything, they just sit on the couch.

Ross Edgley 48:39 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:39 They go, "Hey man, get up, get up. We're gonna run three miles." Like, "Fuck." At the end of that three miles, they will collapse. They'll lay down on their back. Their heart will be pounding, their chest it be heaving.

Ross Edgley 48:49 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 48:49 So, they know that's hard. Everybody knows that's hard. Everybody, at one point in their life, has run until they're exhausted.

Ross Edgley 48:56 Mm.

Joe Rogan 48:56 Whether it's 500 yards or five miles, or whatever. E- every t- from th- when you were a kid, there's always been a moment where we tested ourselves, so we're familiar with that feeling of not being able to go on.

Ross Edgley 49:08 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:09 So, when they see a guy like you, who went through that feeling for six fucking mon-... Or, was it five months total?

Ross Edgley 49:16 Five months. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:17 Five months. Five months, man.

Ross Edgley 49:18 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 49:18 Five months is an insane amount of time.

Ross Edgley 49:21 I- it is now, upon the- (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:22 June, July, August, September, October, November.

Ross Edgley 49:28 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:28 You're into the sixth fucking month when you stop.

Ross Edgley 49:32 Right.

Joe Rogan 49:32 That's insane.

Ross Edgley 49:33 But d- but what you just said there, like, do you think... And this is, again, 'cause I had 12 hours to think e- ev- (laughs) every day. Do you think it is unusual or do you think that we now think it's unusual because society has got real comfortable? You know, and I, I maintained that stuff that I was doing, with salt tongue and everything, a- ancestors, do you not think they would've just thought, "Yeah, that's, that's just Monday." You know, that's just them.

Joe Rogan 49:57 I don't think anybody ever thought that was just Monday.

Ross Edgley 49:59 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:59 No.

Ross Edgley 49:59 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 49:59 I don't think they would've forced themselves to do that 'cause there's no biological or evolutionary need to do that. It's not like you could swim for 12 hours a day-

Ross Edgley 50:08 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:08 ... and get across the Channel, and get to a place where there's better fruit.

Ross Edgley 50:11 Right. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:11 You know, I, I don't think our ancestors ever did that. I th-

Ross Edgley 50:13 Right.

Joe Rogan 50:14 ... I definitely think they did... What is that, um, type of, uh, hunting? There's, there's actually a term for it.

Ross Edgley 50:20 Endurance hunting, yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:20 Where they, they run an animal down. I don't think it's called endurance hunting. I think it's, there's another term for it. But they will liter-... Like, if you take an antelope-

Ross Edgley 50:29 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:29 ... they don't have sweat glands.

Ross Edgley 50:30 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:31 And so, they can run far faster than us, but there comes a point in time when they overheat.

Ross Edgley 50:34 Mm.

Joe Rogan 50:34 So, if you just stay on them... Persistence hunting? That's, uh-

Ross Edgley 50:38 Oh, that was it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 50:38 That was it. Okay. I named it right when you pulled it up, damn.

Ross Edgley 50:40 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 50:41 Um, persistence hunting is, uh, and you see it in these, uh, a lot of these African men who go on to be phenomenal endurance runners.

Ross Edgley 50:51 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 50:51 I mean, they win marathons left and right, in these particular parts of Africa that produce incredible runners. And they think a lot... There was a really, uh, there was a... Cut & Run is a fantastic episode of Radiolab that details these men from this one certain part in Africa. I forget where it is, but see if you can pull that up. But this, uh, this episode detailed the horrific circumcision rituals that these men had to endure-

Ross Edgley 51:20 Right.

Joe Rogan 51:20 ... where they cut their dick-

Ross Edgley 51:22 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:23 ... and, uh, they, they stick a stick through it. And then, they make them crawl through thorns naked.

Ross Edgley 51:27 Right?

Joe Rogan 51:28 Yeah.

Ross Edgley 51:28 I, so I saw that there's a guy, uh, back in, uh, I think it's, uh, Bruce Parry. So he's an adventurer. He has done everything you can think of, every tribal initiation, and that's the one that he refused to do.

Joe Rogan 51:38 Good for him.

Ross Edgley 51:39 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:39 Keep your dick intact. Don't let those crazy guys cut your dick.

Ross Edgley 51:42 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 51:42 "The San are the oldest inhabitants of Southern Africa, where they have lived for almost 20,000 years. The term 'San' is commonly used to refer to a divrest group, diverse group of hunter-gatherers living in South Africa who share historical, linguistic connections. Many now accept the term 'Bushman' or 'San.'" Is that-

Ross Edgley 52:00 Mm.

Joe Rogan 52:00 That's bushman hunting. Is that from the, um- That's what I- ... Radiolab thing? Yes, uh, from- That's what they call themselves? ... BBC article here, which I would imagine

Jamie Vernon 52:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:08 Is that the same... But is that the same with the, uh, the horrible circumcision ritual? I'll, I'll double check. Yeah, the... Oh, it's fucking horrible. But they were arguing in the, the, when they were discussing it, and one of the guys who was on it, who had actually been through it, and now I believe he lives, he lives, uh, maybe he lives in America, but he was saying he would never have his, his children go through that. But e- but it made him who he is.

Ross Edgley 52:31 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 52:31 And the, the, the idea was that not only are these guys physically gifted-

Ross Edgley 52:35 Mm.

Joe Rogan 52:36 ... but they also have unbelievable, unbelievable pain tolerance-

Ross Edgley 52:41 Mm.

Joe Rogan 52:41 ... and mental endurance, and just mental toughness.

Ross Edgley 52:43 Mm.

Joe Rogan 52:43 And that this is one of the reasons why they become so successful-

Ross Edgley 52:46 Mm.

Joe Rogan 52:46 ... is that the ability to push a pace for two-plus miles, or whatever it is their marathon time, is not just dependent upon their physical ability-

Ross Edgley 52:55 Mm.

Joe Rogan 52:55 ... but also dependent upon their ability to endure pain.

Ross Edgley 52:58 Mm.

Joe Rogan 52:58 Like, to force themselves past the... You know, anyone can kinda trot along at a s- really leisurely pace, and it's not painful.

Ross Edgley 53:05 Mm.

Joe Rogan 53:05 But if you're going hard-

Ross Edgley 53:07 Mm.

Joe Rogan 53:07 ... you know, you're really going hard- This is-

Jamie Vernon 53:09 It's the Radiolab, it's, it's, uh-

Joe Rogan 53:11 Kenya.

Jamie Vernon 53:11 Yeah, it's the-

Joe Rogan 53:12 Yeah.

Jamie Vernon 53:13 Um, Kipoke, I think is-

Joe Rogan 53:14 Ah, there we go.

Jamie Vernon 53:16 Where is it?

Joe Rogan 53:18 So, um, it, before you, uh, I mean, well I've, I've kinda described it, but they, they describe it even more horrific detail in the podcast. It's-

Ross Edgley 53:27 So, it, and that almost crosses over to... I mean, again, I'm not advocating what you just d-

Joe Rogan 53:33 Right.

Ross Edgley 53:33 ... (laughs) genitalia mutilation. (laughs)

Joe Rogan 53:37 (laughs)

Ross Edgley 53:37 I'm not advocating that. But there's that idea of adversity training that, like, if you're ever in the gym, it's like, "What are you training?" And it's just, like, "Strength." "What are you training?" "Speed." And this is why, you know, I'm a huge fan of Wim Hof, because so often what he's doing when he's submerged in ice cold, it's like, "Well, I'm training my capillaries."

Joe Rogan 53:52 Yeah.

Ross Edgley 53:52 And it's like, "What do you mean you're training your capillaries?" And it's these, we're atrophying these age-old in-built mechanisms.

Joe Rogan 53:58 Mm.

Ross Edgley 53:58 So again, I'm not advocating, you know, what you- (laughs) genitalia, I'm not-

Joe Rogan 54:02 Right, I know what you're saying.

Ross Edgley 54:04 But, do you-

Joe Rogan 54:05 You're advocating tolerance.

Ross Edgley 54:06 Yeah, do you-

Joe Rogan 54:06 Training tolerance.

Ross Edgley 54:07 And do you think the i- that's maybe missing? I mean, again, looking at MMA, like, maybe that you, you see, you know, whether it's, uh, you know, Muay Thai, and they're, like, kicking trees and stuff. Yeah, granted, that's, you know, making denser bones and stuff, but do you think there's that element as well?

Joe Rogan 54:22 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 54:23 You know, when you look at, um, what, what was it? S- um-... I've forgotten what it was now, but you just start looking at just putting people in high-stress situations just to see how they're gonna cope. Like, Jon Fitch, he was, like, notorious for letting people almost try and submit him.

Joe Rogan 54:38 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 54:38 And then, they'd ch- tire themselves out. He was just completely calm. And then would sort of weather the storm.

Joe Rogan 54:43 I maintain that that's, uh, that really depends on who's choking you 'cause he-

Ross Edgley 54:48 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 54:48 Josh Burkman choked him completely unconscious.

Ross Edgley 54:50 Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 54:52 You know, Burkman's got a hell of a guillotine and, uh, j- Josh Fitch shot in on him, and Burkman caught him in a guillotine-

Ross Edgley 54:58 Right.

Joe Rogan 54:58 ... and just put him to sleep in the first round.

Ross Edgley 55:00 Right.

Joe Rogan 55:01 I think it just, there's guys that can just put you to sleep.

Ross Edgley 55:04 Right, okay.

Joe Rogan 55:04 If you think that you can get away with that shit, with like a Marcelo Garcia, you're gonna wake up going, "What happened?"

Ross Edgley 55:11 Rea- Okay.

Joe Rogan 55:11 Yeah.

Ross Edgley 55:12 Okay. Wh-

Joe Rogan 55:12 But s- most guys won't be able to choke you.

Ross Edgley 55:15 So to that point, you know, and a- again, I'm catching up on 157 days of UFC, so I was actually out at sea with, uh, McGregor and Khabib. But on that note, do you think he tapped premature? Do you think there was that-

Joe Rogan 55:25 Oh, he went to sleep.

Ross Edgley 55:27 McGregor went to sleep?

Joe Rogan 55:28 Oh, that, in that fight.

Ross Edgley 55:29 Yeah, he-

Joe Rogan 55:29 I thought you meant Jon Fish and Josh Burkman.

Ross Edgley 55:31 He just j- yeah, no, no, no. I mean it was a neck crank, right?

Joe Rogan 55:34 Y- no, he did not tap premature. Um, he did not defend it, though.

Ross Edgley 55:38 Okay.

Joe Rogan 55:38 Here's the deal. He was done. He was beaten down. Khabib fucked him up. Khabib smashed him. But there was a lotta people that don't train, and this was very frustrating to me.

Ross Edgley 55:48 Okay.

Joe Rogan 55:49 There was many people that don't train that think that that was something that you shouldn't tap to.

Ross Edgley 55:54 Right.

Joe Rogan 55:54 They're, they're out of their fucking mind.

Ross Edgley 55:55 Okay, okay.

Joe Rogan 55:56 That is what's called a fulcrum choke.

Ross Edgley 55:58 That's, okay, okay.

Joe Rogan 55:58 And it's, it's not necessarily a choke, but it is, it chokes you, but it, it really feels like your fucking head's gonna pop off.

Ross Edgley 56:06 Right.

Joe Rogan 56:06 What he's doing is he's wrapping around the face. And you don't have to even go under the jaw.

Ross Edgley 56:11 Right.

Joe Rogan 56:11 You can get it on the chin, especially if you're as strong as Khabib. Then you clamp your hands together, and you're pressing your forearm-

Ross Edgley 56:17 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:18 ... against his back. So you've got this, and you got the forearm against his back, and you're doing this.

Ross Edgley 56:23 It's just levers.

Joe Rogan 56:23 And your fucking head is just like... (imitates choking) It's, and Khabib is so-

Ross Edgley 56:28 The fight.

Joe Rogan 56:29 ... strong. His gra- he's been grappling since he was a baby.

Ross Edgley 56:32 Right.

Joe Rogan 56:33 All of his muscles are designed to squeeze and crush and smash.

Ross Edgley 56:38 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 56:38 And he gets ahold of your neck in that position, and he's got that forearm pressed against your back. See if you can find an image of the actual, uh, submission. You could really clearly see what he's doing.

Ross Edgley 56:49 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:50 And then there was a video where Dean Lister and my friend Hans Molenkamp described it.

Jamie Vernon 56:55 I was pulling that up, and it's been taken off Instagram for some reason.

Joe Rogan 56:57 That video?

Jamie Vernon 56:58 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 56:58 The Hans Molenkamp-Dean Lister video?

Jamie Vernon 57:00 Yeah, I don't know why.

Joe Rogan 57:01 Well-

Jamie Vernon 57:02 Somebody, maybe someone reposted it and that link is gone, but yeah. I don't know.

Joe Rogan 57:05 Huh. Um, did you check Dean Lister's? That's so weird.

Ross Edgley 57:11 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 57:11 Wonder why anybody would take that down. Um, anyway, e- there's guys who could fuck your face up without even going under the neck. A good example, here's another good example. Just pull this up.

Jamie Vernon 57:22 I got it, I got it.

Joe Rogan 57:22 You got it? Okay.

Jamie Vernon 57:23 It's not the one from right after the fight, but he's still describing it for-

Joe Rogan 57:25 Okay.

Jamie Vernon 57:26 ... us, it was in December.

Joe Rogan 57:26 Oh, this is perfect, this is perfect. So Dean Lister, who's a, a world champion Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt, as l- legit as it gets, and this is my friend Hans Molenkamp. He's also a Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt. And see, see, this is exactly what Khabib did. See how his forearm is pressed against the back and the arm is under the chin? See, the difference is, what Dean is doing, he can't even help himself. He's immediately putting his arms, his hands on the arm that's choking him. That's what you're supposed to do. Now, if you look at what Conor did, Conor just waited until he couldn't take it anymore and tapped.

Ross Edgley 58:01 Right, right, right.

Joe Rogan 58:01 When you see Conor, both of his arms are down. He's getting his neck cranked.

Ross Edgley 58:06 Right.

Joe Rogan 58:06 And he doesn't do this.

Ross Edgley 58:08 Right.

Joe Rogan 58:08 That's what you're supposed to do.

Ross Edgley 58:09 Okay.

Joe Rogan 58:09 You're supposed to do two on one, and then you drop down. Like look at this. See what he's doing there? He's tapping. But see where his left arm is?

Ross Edgley 58:16 Okay, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 58:17 That left arm should not, there's, you, you can't, you can't do that. See, that is a perfect example of the fulcrum choke. See how he's doing that? Pressing his forearm against the back, squeezing the head. It's, it's a neck crank, it's a choke. There's a lot of shit going on there. It doesn't have to be under the chin. It could just be on your face, and you're gonna get fucked up.

Ross Edgley 58:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 58:37 So all those folks out there that were saying that it wasn't a choke need to go have someone apply that to them.

Ross Edgley 58:44 Okay.

Joe Rogan 58:44 And they need to start training jiu-jitsu and stop fucking talking about MMA submissions 'cause they, they don't, that-

Ross Edgley 58:51 Right.

Joe Rogan 58:51 ... that, you're gonna tap, bitch.

Ross Edgley 58:53 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 58:53 Don't say you're not gonna tap. You're gonna fucking tap.

Ross Edgley 58:56 Right, right.

Joe Rogan 58:56 Now, not everybody's gonna tap from that because other people, unlike Conor, are gonna be better at defending that. They're gonna gr- like, you get a hold of a world-class Brazilian jiu-jitsu black belt who's also an MMA fighter like, um, (smacks lips) like Vinny Magalhaes, he's gonna grab ahold of that. He's gonna defend properly, he's gonna adjust, he's gonna try to get outta that.

Ross Edgley 59:15 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 59:15 He might have to tap if someone gets him in it. I mean, he, uh, people tap. But he's n- he's not gonna just have one arm posted.

Ross Edgley 59:22 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 59:23 That's just not the right way to handle it. But I think that's because Conor had eaten bombs.

Ross Edgley 59:27 Well, I was about to ask, so that's all technical. Do you, so you think-

Joe Rogan 59:30 Yes.

Ross Edgley 59:30 So there's that, almost as a, as a, I don't know, like a continuum.

Joe Rogan 59:33 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 59:34 There's technical-

Joe Rogan 59:34 Yes.

Ross Edgley 59:35 ... which you've just, you know, British, but, and then- and again, I should point out, you know, again, I'm a complete layman when it comes to all mixed martial arts, but I find it fascinating the, this adversity training aspect. So you were just saying he was eating bombs before that. Would, would there, would it have helped, you know, that if he wasn't, he, im- do you know what I mean? Like, where, where does it cross over from being technical-

Joe Rogan 59:52 It would help if he wasn't as tired. So, like, if that choke was applied during the first few seconds or minutes of the first round-

Ross Edgley 1:00:01 Okay.

Joe Rogan 1:00:01 ... I think he probably would've had a good chance to survive.

Ross Edgley 1:00:04 Okay, okay. What's going on?

Jamie Vernon 1:00:06 Dean put on Dean Lister. It's an Ezekiel choke, and he's not, it's not being done well apparently.

Joe Rogan 1:00:09 Oh, but this is a diff- this is not an Ezekiel choke.

Jamie Vernon 1:00:12 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:00:13 This is, this is, uh, what this is, is, uh, I mean, it's kind of an Ezekiel, but see where his hand is? You gotta really get underneath. See his left hand? That left hand's gotta go not just there, it's gotta go under the chin. That's not good enough for a guy like Dean. You got, okay, now it's pretty fucking tight.... now it's tight and he's gotta get further and further in. The further that left arm gets into Dean's neck-

Ross Edgley 1:00:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:00:38 ... the more, more there's gonna be a possibility of him choking. But Dean has been fucking choked his whole life, which is ... But I do have to say that Josh Barnett made him tap. And Josh Barnett is, like, one of the few guys that's made Dean Lister tap. And I think the first time he tapped in a decade.

Ross Edgley 1:00:57 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:00:57 And Josh Barnett got him in a scarf hold, um, and I th- that was in Metamoris. And Josh Barnett, who is, uh, he's a catch wrestling specialist. Yeah, go to the very end of it here. Josh Barnett gets ahold of Dean's h- he gets a ... See, in this position right here, he's in side control, which is just impressive enough that Josh is able to do this with a guy like Dean Lister. But then he gets him in what's, uh, I don't ... He m- he probably has a different name for it, but it's, uh ... We, we used to call it judo side control. It's quite a bit further down on this. You gotta keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going.

Ross Edgley 1:01:34 All right.

Joe Rogan 1:01:34 All the way to the end. So he gets ahold of his ar- he's got a head and arm choke. Here it is. Here it is. So he's got his head and his arm trapped together, and Josh, who's an enormously powerful person, is really neck-cranking him as much as anything, and then Dean was forced to tap. But this was at the end of a long match and, you know, it could've been exhaustion might've played a part in it. It most certainly was Josh's skill and his, his ability to apply that technique. B- but the point is, is a guy like Dean Lister, y- you're not gonna tap that guy easy.

Ross Edgley 1:02:10 But this is ... And, and ag- again, it, it with sort of holding my hands up saying I'm so, sort of naïve, a huge fan of, of MMA but not necessarily, uh, any of the technical aspects. But what I love is when you look at someone like, you know, Nick Diaz or Michael Bisping.

Joe Rogan 1:02:23 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 1:02:23 You know, people don't understand his conditioning and he will just wear people down.

Joe Rogan 1:02:27 Massive mental toughness too. What, what Bisping has is just insane mental toughness. You know, Bisping basically has one eye.

Ross Edgley 1:02:35 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:02:36 M- if you look at his eyes, his, one of his eye actually ... And I hope he can get surgery on it now because he is retired. He has oil, like, im- embedded in his eye-

Ross Edgley 1:02:48 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:02:48 ... to protect his retina, because it's been torn so many times.

Ross Edgley 1:02:51 Wow.

Joe Rogan 1:02:51 It's been torn, he had surgery on it, he had it repaired, torn again. His right eye is fucked up, man.

Ross Edgley 1:02:57 Right.

Joe Rogan 1:02:58 And one of the reasons why he retired is he started to see some irregularities in his vision in his left eye, so his good eye was fucking up too. But I mean, Michael Bisping is a fucking animal. I mean, he is, he is about as tough as it gets. And he's not, like, a spectacularly physically talented guy like a Jon Jones or Yoel Romero who's just this unbelievable specimen.

Ross Edgley 1:03:20 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:03:20 Michael's a, you know, a s- a really good athlete, unquestionably, but he's just tough.

Ross Edgley 1:03:25 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:03:25 Just fucking tough. So, to answer your question, there is, there is this ... And you could speak to this, because what you're talking about, uh, the, the ability to overcome adversity. Like, some people when you were s- talking about that fatigue is an emotionally driven thing, that there's this feeling that you get and you can give into that feeling where you're like, "Oh my God, I'm fuck- I fucking can't do this anymore." And some people are more susceptible to that than others, and they give into it quickly.

Ross Edgley 1:03:55 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:03:55 I mean, for a person ... Here's, here's where you can experience this, like, what i- y- whether or not your mindset, um, can affect your, your endurance. Get on a treadmill or a stationary bike or whatever you wanna do for cardio, and then listen to a really kickass song and put on headphones.

Ross Edgley 1:04:14 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:04:14 And that song comes on and you just can't fucking ... Yeah. You can just go. There's something about that. And even if you're tired, even if you're tired and you've put on a good song, you're like, "Fuck that, we're gonna keep going." Like, th- the ... Nothing has happened. You haven't taken in any kind of a supplement or any kind of a, a stimulant. The ... You haven't gotten an injection in your body or you're not sucking on some kind of new gas.

Ross Edgley 1:04:37 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:04:38 Your body's exactly the same, but through the motivation that you're getting from this music, the emotional stimulation, you're just like, "Fuck that, we're gonna keep going. Yeah." And you can keep going. Not only can you keep going, you can go faster, you can push harder, you can find these reserves. So the idea is that these reserves are always there. You have to be able to achieve the state of mind that you achieve when you hear a really good song.

Ross Edgley 1:05:03 Mm-hmm.

Joe Rogan 1:05:03 You know?

Ross Edgley 1:05:04 And that's true that I think people don't understand you are the alchemist of your own body, that, you know, in terms of neurotransmitters, chemical signals in the brain, you can impact those. Sometimes, yeah, you need external influences, music as you spoke about, sometimes, you know, caffeine. But when you start to control them, yeah, it can be so powerful. Some people do it naturally I suppose-

Joe Rogan 1:05:23 Yeah.

Ross Edgley 1:05:23 ... and they've just got it in-built. But when you start to try and ... And I think it's only now that we're, we're going down that route and looking at that as a ... You know, until previously it was one of those intangibles, you know-

Joe Rogan 1:05:34 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 1:05:34 ... that you, you, you kind of under appreciate it in any sport. And now we're going, "Oh, okay, yeah," you know, that person over there is, you know, that mental fortitude or what you're talking about there is maybe their ability to alter their own chemistry, biochemical reactions in the body, and-

Joe Rogan 1:05:47 Yeah, there's something real that happens, right?

Ross Edgley 1:05:49 Yeah. Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:50 Like, when you hear a song and you get excited, like, whatever that yeah, whatever that, that burst is-

Ross Edgley 1:05:57 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:05:57 ... it seems like a real ... Like, if that was a pill and you took it, you'd be like, "Oh, this works."

Ross Edgley 1:06:02 Absolutely. And w- and the thing is, is it's been around years. When you look at, like, um, you know, uh, Marcus Aurelius, uh, Meditations or Stoic philosophy and they're talking about, you know, dialogue being both external, internal, so the, the conversations that go on inside your own head are just as important-

Joe Rogan 1:06:15 Mm-hmm.

Ross Edgley 1:06:15 ... as the conversations we have with other people. So we've understood this for years, but it's only just now that we're trying to kind of apply a little bit of science to it, looking at the psychology and this mind/body connection. But the fact is, yeah, some of the greatest ancient Stoics, they were trying to figure out as well.

Joe Rogan 1:06:32 Right.

Ross Edgley 1:06:33 And when you can start to tap into that-... well, that can become ... A- and it might be a particular song, you know?

Joe Rogan 1:06:38 Yeah.

Ross Edgley 1:06:38 It might be a particular something, you know? If you get into ... You go into a gym or d- you've got a friend that can bring that out of you. Again-

Joe Rogan 1:06:45 Yeah.

Ross Edgley 1:06:46 ... you know, my, um, training back home, so you know, Andy Bolton, who was the, the first guy to deadlift 1,000 pounds. I mean-

Joe Rogan 1:06:52 Jesus.

Ross Edgley 1:06:53 Yeah, yeah. I mean-

Joe Rogan 1:06:55 1,000 pounds?

Ross Edgley 1:06:56 Yeah. I mean, uh, the, the clip when you see it and he, he, he pulls 1,000 pounds for the first time. It's since been beaten by Eddie Hall who did, uh, half a ton. So he deadlifted-

Joe Rogan 1:07:03 What the fuck, Eddie?

Ross Edgley 1:07:05 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:06 (laughs)

Ross Edgley 1:07:06 Safe-

Joe Rogan 1:07:06 But isn't half a ton 1,000 pounds?

Ross Edgley 1:07:08 Uh, a little bit less. So th- I think 1,000 pounds ... I don't know. What's that? Four- four-

Joe Rogan 1:07:12 I thought a ton was 2,000 pounds, isn't it?

Ross Edgley 1:07:14 So yeah, uh, Eddie ... What's 1,000 pounds in kilos?

Joe Rogan 1:07:17 Oh, you're trying to do kilos.

Ross Edgley 1:07:18 Yeah, yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:18 Yeah.

Ross Edgley 1:07:19 So sorry, the two. So yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:20 Oh.

Ross Edgley 1:07:20 There was two metrics there. So Andy Bolton, which was 2.2-

Joe Rogan 1:07:23 Which was 2.2 kilos per pound? No, 2.2 pounds per kilo. It says like four- four- 2.2 pounds per kilo. Yeah. Yeah.

Ross Edgley 1:07:29 And then yeah, and when you see him ... I mean this is what I love when you start looking at-

Joe Rogan 1:07:33 Oh, Jesus Christ.

Ross Edgley 1:07:34 So this is Eddie. That's his, that's his half a ton.

Joe Rogan 1:07:36 How the fuck are his knees staying together right there?

Ross Edgley 1:07:39 You look ... That is obscene.

Joe Rogan 1:07:40 If you look at how big his body is and how normal size his knees are-

Ross Edgley 1:07:43 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:07:44 ... that's like ... Look at the bones in his knees. They look so normal.

Ross Edgley 1:07:46 Yeah. I mean that, that is-

Joe Rogan 1:07:48 Look at all these fucking people.

Ross Edgley 1:07:49 I know, it's unbelievable.

Joe Rogan 1:07:50 Like, "Pick it up."

Ross Edgley 1:07:51 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:07:52 "Pick it up."

Ross Edgley 1:07:53 It's unbelievable.

Joe Rogan 1:07:53 Oh my God. So when those guys retire, how fucked up are their bodies?

Ross Edgley 1:07:57 I would ... Do you know Eddie's l- uh, what's brilliant about Eddie-

Joe Rogan 1:07:59 Just had the beast tattooed just-

Ross Edgley 1:08:01 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:01 ... inside of his arms. Who's gonna argue with him?

Ross Edgley 1:08:04 (laughs)

Joe Rogan 1:08:04 Yeah, bro.

Ross Edgley 1:08:05 (laughs) Nobody. Right?

Joe Rogan 1:08:05 Yeah, yeah. You're a fucking beast. His nose is bleeding.

Ross Edgley 1:08:07 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:08 Oh, that's right, right? His nose started spraying blood while he was d-

Ross Edgley 1:08:10 Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:10 Was that him or another guy?

Ross Edgley 1:08:12 The o- I think you al-

Joe Rogan 1:08:13 That was another video.

Ross Edgley 1:08:14 I know you did the ... Yeah.

Joe Rogan 1:08:14 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ross Edgley 1:08:14 It was the Arnold Classic. I've forgotten his name. He was Russian and just full on f-

Joe Rogan 1:08:17 Yeah, that shit was wild.