Joe Rogan Experience #1203 - Eric Weinstein

1. 0:00 – 2:15

   Staying sane in a polarizing world: disagreeability, group belonging, and first principles

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      And we're live. Are you, you gonna update the, the people out there?

   2. EWEric Weinstein0:05

      No.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:05

      Oh, you shut your phone off?

   4. EWEric Weinstein0:06

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Oh, you're professional.

   6. EWEric Weinstein0:08

      Try.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:08

      How are you, sir? Good to see you.

   8. EWEric Weinstein0:09

      I'm doing well.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:09

      What's going on?

   10. EWEric Weinstein0:10

       Um, everything. It's all pretty weird out there.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:13

       It is very weird out there. We were just talking about how weird it is out there, um, before the podcast, about how it just seems like it's very difficult to keep together during these times, and to, to ha- to keep a reasonable position, and to handle all of the pressure of all the people that get upset at anything you do, left or right, in the middle, centrist. You're too centrist, you're too left, you're too right. You're unreasonable, you're too reasonable, you're too nice, you're not nice enough.

   12. EWEric Weinstein0:42

       Wow. Suddenly, I feel like I'm in a marriage.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:45

       (laughs)

   14. EWEric Weinstein0:45

       (sniffs) .

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:46

       Doesn't it seem like that, though?

   16. EWEric Weinstein0:47

       Yeah. It does. I think that this is why dis- ... This is the era for disagreeability. If you're not easily swayed, um, because you're somehow, uh, insensitive enough that you just wanna keep, uh, to first principles, whatever it is that you believe, that seems to be the best hedge against getting swept up in the madness of others.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:06

       How so?

   18. EWEric Weinstein1:07

       Well, um, I guess I ... When I go metacognitive, I look at my yearning for group belonging, and then I also watch my inability to belong to groups that say crazy things.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:19

       Yeah.

   20. EWEric Weinstein1:19

       And so, those are, those are two conflicting feelings. I think sometimes when people look at me, they say, "Wow, you're really contrarian, and you have an easy time standing up to, you know, the conventional wisdom." And I don't think it's, it's, it's that true. I just think when those two things fight inside me, uh, dialectically, the disagreeability is so strong because it's protecting a comprehensive view of the world. And so, since everything already kinda fits together fairly well, I would say I'm l- much ... It's much harder to sway me because the number of things I would have to move cognitively to accommodate a wrong idea-

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:55

       Hmm.

   22. EWEric Weinstein1:56

       ... is, is quite large.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:57

       It seems unnecessary, but it also seems like it ... We should be able to disagree on things, and you should be able to point out, with reasonable courtesy, that there's something wrong with someone's idea and it not become a big personal thing. But oftentimes, that's not the case.

2. 2:15 – 5:32

   Heuristics vs truth: why biology and facts collide with social cohesion

   1. EWEric Weinstein2:15

      Well, so a lot of the things, I think, that we're, we're exploring are what I would think of as heuristics. They're sort of rules of thumb that work fairly well within some domain of definition. And we've gotten so many of these conflicting rules ... I mean, the rules of thumb themselves conflict. So for example, "He who hesitates is lost," uh, conflicts with, um, "Nothing ventured, nothing gained," or something like that. Uh, sorry-

   2. JRJoe Rogan2:41

      Hmm.

   3. EWEric Weinstein2:41

      ... no ... Um, it's, uh ... Well, I, I forget. You know, the, there's the cautionary, um, a- aphorism and then there's the be bold a- aphorism. And so, we don't have a good way of sorting out conflicts that occur at the heuristic level. And then you also have heuristics, uh, meant for social cohesion conflicting with ground truths. So, this is why biology is always controversial, because biology is a science that tells us many of the things that we wish were true are just (laughs) not true. You know?

   4. JRJoe Rogan3:12

      Hmm.

   5. EWEric Weinstein3:12

      I always think about Ben Shapiro's, "Facts don't care about your feelings." Well, biology cares about your feelings. It just laughs at them and stomps on them and makes them, uh, you know, feel very sad.

   6. JRJoe Rogan3:22

      Well, it also tries to explain your feelings too.

   7. EWEric Weinstein3:24

      Well, it ... Right, exactly.

   8. JRJoe Rogan3:26

      Yeah.

   9. EWEric Weinstein3:26

      But, but, you know, if, if you really understand biology, the world is so dark and, and so interesting and beautiful and, and crazy that it's very hard to recover simple ideas about how people should be once you really realize that our being apes has deep consequences.

   10. JRJoe Rogan3:41

       Yeah, I have a very minimal understanding of biology. But in that understanding, I've come to accept some things just about being a person that I, I never considered before. Like-

   11. EWEric Weinstein3:52

       Such as?

   12. JRJoe Rogan3:52

       ... all the different things that are running your decision-making, like just what we were talking about, like the, the need to f- be in a group, and all these are probably evolutionary advantages to, you know, f- fostering tribal behavior so you could all work together and feed each other. You know, this, this is always pulling at you and, you know ... When, when people give people a hard time about virtue signaling, it is kinda gross when someone virtue signals, you know, but we understand what it is. It's gross because we've all done it, right? That's one of the gross things about it. When someone is just, like, really trying hard to act like, you know, they're disgusted by the way people behave because they would never behave like that. And they just wanna let you know, "I'm, I'm above this type of behavior." What's most likely, because they weren't above that kinda behavior at some point in their life, or they're not currently really above that type of behavior, but they wish they were.

   13. EWEric Weinstein4:44

       Or the part of them that's speaking is the part that's above that behavior, but that's not the part that's gonna be operative, uh, after 11:00 on a weekend at a bar.

   14. JRJoe Rogan4:52

       Yeah.

   15. EWEric Weinstein4:53

       Right?

   16. JRJoe Rogan4:53

       Three shots in, all bets are off.

   17. EWEric Weinstein4:55

       Right.

   18. JRJoe Rogan4:55

       The wheels are off the wagon. Woo.

   19. EWEric Weinstein4:56

       So, I think we don't, we don't see ourselves ... We, we are permanently in our own blind spot because the part of us that is, uh, you know, just and righteous and good, um, seems to know very little about the other part.

   20. JRJoe Rogan5:08

       Well, it's also this thing, this need to belong and need to be accepted, like we work to be accepted instead of work to be someone that you would want to be a part of the group. Instead of being, like, really honest about who you are and how you think and how you behave and how you operate in the world, instead of doing that and trying to improve upon that, you try to project an image of this.

3. 5:32 – 7:50

   Virtue signaling vs vice signaling: why blunt honesty can build trust

   1. EWEric Weinstein5:32

      Well, then what ... Here's a question for us. Why is vice signaling so much more powerful than virtue signaling?

   2. JRJoe Rogan5:38

      Vice signaling, like a person who admits their problems, like an alcoholic who steps up and says, "I've got a real issue."

   3. EWEric Weinstein5:44

      Could be that way, or it could be sort of Dan Bilzerian-type vice signaling.

   4. JRJoe Rogan5:48

      Oh, okay.

   5. EWEric Weinstein5:48

      Like, "You wanna know what I'm into? I'm into hot chicks, weed, and guns, and making"-

   6. JRJoe Rogan5:52

      And a lot of money.

   7. EWEric Weinstein5:53

      ... "tons, tons of money, and showing it off."

   8. JRJoe Rogan5:54

      Yeah. Well, he's super honest.

   9. EWEric Weinstein5:56

      Right.

   10. JRJoe Rogan5:56

       You know, that's one of the reasons, and you ... He's bulletproof in that regard. Like, you can't fuck with him. Like, you can't say, "Hey, look at you, you're just a playboy." He'd be like, "Yep."Yeah, I like girls.

   11. EWEric Weinstein6:06

       Yeah, it works.

   12. JRJoe Rogan6:06

       Yeah, um, what else?

   13. EWEric Weinstein6:08

       Right.

   14. JRJoe Rogan6:09

       You know, I'm nice. Like, he's a nice guy. Talk to Dan Bilzerian, he's friendly. He's not a bad guy.

   15. EWEric Weinstein6:14

       No, I mean, he, he, you know, he had a, he had this post which was, uh, he was, I think, offering a hand to a woman up a stair and it said, uh, "Come with me, I'll ruin your life, but it'll be fun."

   16. JRJoe Rogan6:23

       (laughs)

   17. EWEric Weinstein6:23

       You know? And it, it was just like... It's so disarming.

   18. JRJoe Rogan6:26

       Yeah.

   19. EWEric Weinstein6:26

       And I think that this is also partially, you know, a secret to your success, which is that you're a, a nice guy, you're really into fighting, um, you're, you know, you, you, you hunt elk, you're clear about which ones you're gonna kill, which ones you won't, based on the reproductive cycle. You're, you're promoting all sorts of things that people don't wanna talk about, to a fairly conscious level, and it's produced, um, an incredible level of trust in an era where all of the virtue signaling gives way. I mean, if you scratch any person, uh, enough below the surface, you're gonna see that they're really warning you about themselves. And so the people who are the most sort of self-critical, and, and this is like, you know, I think I brought this up recently, uh, on Twitter, about meta-honesty, where there was a, in the Castro in San Francisco, there was a, a bar restaurant that was advertising, uh, free food, naked servers, plus false advertising.

   20. JRJoe Rogan7:24

       (laughs)

   21. EWEric Weinstein7:24

       And, you know, it was just fun and playful, and as a result, uh, you know, you had an instant desire to, to eat there-

   22. JRJoe Rogan7:30

       Right.

   23. EWEric Weinstein7:30

       ... and to trust them.

   24. JRJoe Rogan7:31

       Yeah.

   25. EWEric Weinstein7:31

       And so I think that in this world of virtue signaling, vice signaling is really the growth industry, and that's, that's what's working for good people, because they are m- more in touch and, you know, they are gonna lie to you and they're gonna do all the self-interested things, but they're not going to surprise you quite as much.

4. 7:50 – 14:51

   Risk, status, and the “unforgiving”: adversity as a reality check (and bonding force)

   1. JRJoe Rogan7:50

      Well, in the case of Dan Bilzerian, I really don't think he's gonna lie to you. I don't think that's what he's doing. I think what he's doing is living like a guy who's got $100 million and happens to be 35 years old and likes to bang hot chicks and fly around in private jets and live in some rid- have you seen that fucking house that he's got? He just bought some crazy house in, like, Bel Air, I guess with that weed money. Jesus. He's got some- it looks like it probably cost $100 million or something ridiculous like that. It's a fucking insane house. But that's what he likes.

   2. EWEric Weinstein8:19

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan8:20

      You know? The guy drives... Likes to drive around Ferraris and d- and... But he's a nice guy, so it's like, well, what, where, what's, what's wrong with this picture? What's wrong with this picture is he's doing things that oth- Look at this. This is his house. What in the f- holy fuck is that? Does he have a golf course on his roof? What is that?

   4. GUGuest8:38

      I don't know.

   5. JRJoe Rogan8:38

      This is a fucking ridiculous house. Look at this fucking place. He gives his address out?

   6. GUGuest8:42

      Well...

   7. JRJoe Rogan8:42

      Is that his address?

   8. EWEric Weinstein8:43

      It's pretty hard to hide that thing.

   9. GUGuest8:45

      Yeah. No.

   10. JRJoe Rogan8:45

       Why the fuck would he give his address out? (laughs)

   11. GUGuest8:47

       I don't thi- I don't think you can get there, it's in Bel Air.

   12. JRJoe Rogan8:49

       Whoa, look at this house. It's preposterous.

   13. EWEric Weinstein8:52

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan8:52

       Anyway, this is what he likes. But it... Why is that bad? I mean, look, we only have 100 years if everything goes perfect.

   15. EWEric Weinstein8:58

       I know.

   16. JRJoe Rogan8:58

       What do you give a shit? Like, why does everybody give a shit? B- but they do give a shit, they give a shit a lot, because for a lot of folks that are working, you know, making a, a good living, making, you know, $50,000 a year, whatever, that's completely out of the realm of possibility.

   17. EWEric Weinstein9:10

       Right.

   18. JRJoe Rogan9:10

       That's why it feels-

   19. EWEric Weinstein9:11

       And his lifestyle wouldn't be sustainable for them.

   20. JRJoe Rogan9:13

       Yeah.

   21. EWEric Weinstein9:13

       I mean, because he's taking real risk. There's no question about it. When you, you know, get everybody stoned and then you take them to fire automatic weapons out in the desert.

   22. JRJoe Rogan9:21

       Oh yeah, that's real risk.

   23. EWEric Weinstein9:22

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan9:22

       And also the gambling. He does a lot of, like, crazy gambling.

   25. EWEric Weinstein9:25

       Well, but this is the thing about the, uh, the relationship with the unforgiving. This is partially why I think-

   26. JRJoe Rogan9:30

       Right.

   27. EWEric Weinstein9:30

       ... your UFC and jujitsu life, is that when you have a relationship with the unforgiving, you can say, "You know, that guy, that guy doesn't really know what he's doing," but then you're, you're in the ring, you know? You're the man in the arena and, and you find out very quickly whether or not the trash talking, you know, paid off or it didn't. And I think that many people have no relationship with the unforgiving.

   28. JRJoe Rogan9:51

       Mm-hmm.

   29. EWEric Weinstein9:51

       Like, you'll take them out on a hike into, you know, the, the, let's say the Trinity Wilderness and then two hours in they'll just sit down and say, "I wanna go home."

   30. JRJoe Rogan10:00

       Right.
5. 14:51 – 20:19

   Male bonding, teasing, and the backlash: when ‘insensitivity’ blocks intimacy

   1. EWEric Weinstein14:51

      Or particularly, you know, if, if men, I think, don't form groups that, in some sense, fight or battle or contest together, so there's this very weird fact that apparently humans are the only species that organize, uh, contests in teams. Um, you know, this is an intrinsic feature of being human.

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:13

      Contests?

   3. EWEric Weinstein15:14

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:14

      Do other animals have any contests?

   5. EWEric Weinstein15:16

      Well-

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:17

      Just if they spar?

   7. EWEric Weinstein15:18

      Like chimps, you know, will, will, uh, have these incredible raiding parties.

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:22

      Mm-hmm.

   9. EWEric Weinstein15:22

      They're very methodical and they'll, they'll attack somebody else. But I don't think that they practice it as like, "Okay, you're red team chimp and you're blue team chimp."

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:30

       Right. Well, we're the only ones that do stuff like that that can communicate, right? Like dolphins can communicate, but they don't do stuff like that.

   11. EWEric Weinstein15:37

       Right, or you have individual sparring. Like, you'll have two bears learning to play with each other.

   12. JRJoe Rogan15:42

       Mm-hmm.

   13. EWEric Weinstein15:42

       Um, because it's safer to play with your brother in childhood than it is to just suddenly show up against some big ass bear and have to compete for females.

   14. JRJoe Rogan15:51

       I had William von Hippel on a couple of days ago, and he's the author of The Social Leap.

   15. EWEric Weinstein15:56

       Okay.

   16. JRJoe Rogan15:56

       And, uh, we were actually talking about this, about one of the things that made human beings successful as we came down from the trees and started walking around the grasslands is our ability to organize and to work and coordinate together.

   17. EWEric Weinstein16:11

       Yeah. Well, and the, the, the, the, you know, e- but like African wild dogs are fairly good at this. And you, you watch what they do in their spare time, very often they just take the piss out of each other.

   18. JRJoe Rogan16:21

       Mm.

   19. EWEric Weinstein16:22

       So they're, they actually come to each other's age- aid at a very high level, uh, in times of need. But like, are, you know, when you're just hanging out around the fire hose, firehouse, you're, you're really just giving each other shit all the time.

   20. JRJoe Rogan16:33

       Right.

   21. EWEric Weinstein16:34

       And so there's something about the way in which we play, um, being kind of divergent from the way in which we behave when we actually just need each other. And like, you, you need to be on that line, you know, let's say, uh, you know, throwing burlap bags and I just need you to do that thing and we're, we're both facing something together. Uh, doesn't n- don't, doesn't have to be fighting in, in a militaristic si- situation, but I do think that, um, this is one of the weird things that's going on with all of this, uh, emphasis on care and feelings, is that often men need to give each other shit in order to form very deep bonds.

   22. JRJoe Rogan17:12

       Right.

   23. EWEric Weinstein17:13

       If I can't tease you-

   24. JRJoe Rogan17:15

       Right.

   25. EWEric Weinstein17:15

       ... and if I don't know where the line is, like there is this line which is like, "Dude, that was way too far."

   26. JRJoe Rogan17:20

       Right.

   27. EWEric Weinstein17:20

       We all know that those lines exist, and we, we sometimes have to go up to them and sometimes we have to experiment by going over them. But if somebody says, "I don't like the way you're talking. That seems very insensitive." And my, my response is, "Well, you're gonna keep me from forming a deep bond with that person. You just don't know that that's how we do it."

   28. JRJoe Rogan17:36

       Yeah, they're shielding. They- they're putting up their shield.

   29. EWEric Weinstein17:40

       Right.

   30. JRJoe Rogan17:40

       And often is d- you know, to project a certain image to you. They, they, they, they, they wanna be taken seriously. They want some respect. They can't deal with you goofing on them.
6. 20:19 – 22:58

   Attention economies, victim status, and “titrating” negative feedback

   1. JRJoe Rogan20:19

      Well, th- and also, there's some things that you're s- there's a reason why we have this instinct to mock things.

   2. EWEric Weinstein20:25

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan20:25

      It's 'cause people get out of line and then they demand too much goddamn attention and, uh, they become a problem. And this is a, I think, I believe this goes back to hunting parties and hunter-gatherers-

   4. EWEric Weinstein20:36

      Right.

   5. JRJoe Rogan20:36

      ... where the one person who just wanted too much attention, like, you, you're fucking it up for this group effort. And that's kind of what happens socially when people claim these, uh, very ridiculous victim statuses.

   6. EWEric Weinstein20:46

      Right.

   7. JRJoe Rogan20:47

      You know, and there was a picture that I put up on my Instagram a couple weeks ago of this guy. He had this crazy makeup on and he had this ridiculous description of himself, like non-binary, queer, that also identifies as a Muslim, and he was talking about quantum physics, that quantum physics got, uh, g- helped him appreciate his queerness. And I looked at that and I said, "Okay, maybe, or maybe you're just fucking crying out for attention." And all I wrote was, uh, "Makes sense. Definitely doesn't seem crazy."

   8. EWEric Weinstein21:17

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan21:17

      And people got mad at me for that, for something so obvious. I looked, I just peered into the fucking deep dungeon that is the comment section for a moment, and I saw people like, "You would think that the people that are most susceptible to suicide, you would leave them alone, but your cruelty is ... You know, you're exposing your cruelty." Like, listen, that's silly. That guy needs better friends. Your friends are gonna tell you you're silly.

   10. EWEric Weinstein21:41

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan21:41

       You got crazy makeup o- ... Have you seen this guy?

   12. EWEric Weinstein21:43

       No.

   13. JRJoe Rogan21:43

       You have a photo? Look at this. "I'm British-Iraqi, gay, non-binary, and also identify as Muslim." Listen, you need too much goddamn attention.

   14. EWEric Weinstein21:52

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan21:52

       That's all I'm saying. I'm not saying you're a bad person, you should kill yourself, you shouldn't be queer. Be whatever you wanna be. But if you're going that hard-

   16. EWEric Weinstein21:59

       Right.

   17. JRJoe Rogan21:59

       ... that hard to define yourself.

   18. EWEric Weinstein22:01

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan22:02

       Like, that is needy as shit. That's fucking annoying.

   20. EWEric Weinstein22:05

       Yeah, but your, but your point-

   21. JRJoe Rogan22:05

       (laughs)

   22. EWEric Weinstein22:05

       Your point is that you have to titrate the negative feedback.

   23. JRJoe Rogan22:08

       Yes.

   24. EWEric Weinstein22:09

       Right? And so what you did was you gave him a small dose in saying, "Look, cor- you might wanna course correct a little bit."

   25. JRJoe Rogan22:15

       But-

   26. EWEric Weinstein22:15

       The idea that there's any course correction, that you're not sitting there celebrating this.

   27. JRJoe Rogan22:19

       Right.

   28. EWEric Weinstein22:20

       Well, that's-

   29. JRJoe Rogan22:22

       That's the thing.

   30. EWEric Weinstein22:22

       Yeah.
7. 22:58 – 29:34

   Personal quirks and social sympathy: makeup phobia, high heels, and costly signaling

   1. EWEric Weinstein22:58

      No, but, but, okay, look, look, but l- look at it this way. I have this weird thing which I th- sometimes is called machilophobia, the fear of cosmetics.

   2. JRJoe Rogan23:07

      Really?

   3. EWEric Weinstein23:07

      Oh, man.

   4. JRJoe Rogan23:09

      Lips? What kind?

   5. EWEric Weinstein23:10

      (sighs)

   6. JRJoe Rogan23:10

      Eyeshadow? Like smoking, smoking eyeshadow?

   7. EWEric Weinstein23:13

      Oh. Oh, ugh.

   8. JRJoe Rogan23:14

      Ugh.

   9. EWEric Weinstein23:14

      No, it's like-

   10. JRJoe Rogan23:14

       What about fake eyelashes?

   11. EWEric Weinstein23:15

       Well, this is the thing is, is that sometimes it looks somewhat normal and then suddenly it doesn't integrate and the person just looks like they've got crazy stuff stuck to their head.

   12. JRJoe Rogan23:24

       Ooh. Yeah.

   13. EWEric Weinstein23:24

       And, and you're just like, "You've got s- crazy stuff stuck to you." Well, that's how I perceive it. Now, here's the question. I can't be in touch ... Like, it can't be, "Eric's got a problem with machilophobia." It has to be-

   14. JRJoe Rogan23:36

       That ... I've never heard that word. It's freaking me out.

   15. EWEric Weinstein23:38

       It has to be-

   16. JRJoe Rogan23:38

       Machilophobia.

   17. EWEric Weinstein23:39

       Yeah. It has to be, "Eric can't accept people who wear makeup."

   18. JRJoe Rogan23:43

       Ah-ha.

   19. EWEric Weinstein23:44

       And it ... And my question would be, from first principles, how do you tell who to have sympathy with? Because this has been somewhat debilitating for me.

   20. JRJoe Rogan23:50

       Really?

   21. EWEric Weinstein23:50

       Yeah, sure.

   22. JRJoe Rogan23:51

       So it's been a real issue, like you've struggled with it?

   23. EWEric Weinstein23:54

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan23:54

       Strug- well, have you struggled with the feeling or struggled with the fact that you have the feeling?

   25. EWEric Weinstein23:57

       Look, everybody actually experience ... If you remember Tammy Faye Bakker from We-

   26. JRJoe Rogan24:01

       Yes.

   27. EWEric Weinstein24:02

       Right? So she was famous for freaking people out because she had no concept of how much, uh, how many-

   28. JRJoe Rogan24:09

       Makeup is too much.

   29. EWEric Weinstein24:09

       Is too much.

   30. JRJoe Rogan24:10

       Yeah.
8. 29:34 – 40:54

   Fighting realities: preparedness vs injury, and why weight cutting is ‘sanctioned cheating’

   1. JRJoe Rogan29:34

      Someone could kill you pretty easily with a tie. Like, if someone has a tie on, and I grab ahold of their tie-

   2. EWEric Weinstein29:39

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan29:40

      ... boy, unless you're a lot bigger than me, I might kill you. Got ahold of your tie, tie's a hard thing to shake loose. It's really strong. Like, you could... Uh, you... A good s- tie is not gonna rip.

   4. EWEric Weinstein29:51

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan29:51

      Someone gets ahold of your tie at the knot-

   6. EWEric Weinstein29:53

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan29:53

      ... and just twists and holds onto you, all they have to do is hold onto you, grab an arm, and just gr- wrap their legs around you and hold onto that tie, you're a dead man. You're dead. You're, you're giving them a weapon-

   8. EWEric Weinstein30:05

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan30:05

      ... to kill you all the time.

   10. EWEric Weinstein30:06

       All right, you've convinced me. No more ties.

   11. JRJoe Rogan30:08

       I just... The... Grab that and just fucking twist. You don't have much time, man. You, you don't have much time to get this arm off your neck and get-

   12. EWEric Weinstein30:16

       This is such a UFC spin on it.

   13. JRJoe Rogan30:17

       You're gonna have to figure out... It's a jujitsu spin.

   14. EWEric Weinstein30:20

       (laughs)

   15. JRJoe Rogan30:20

       'Cause UFC, you don't wear clothes. But the-

   16. EWEric Weinstein30:21

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan30:22

       To be able to grab ahold of someone's clothing, like... Like, a person with a leather jacket, if you're talking shit and-

   18. EWEric Weinstein30:28

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan30:28

       ... you have a leather jacket on, you're with a guy who knows judo-

   20. EWEric Weinstein30:31

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan30:31

       ... you are beyond fucked. You don't... Yo- this, this guy might as well have cannons coming out of his body. Like, you're, you're doomed.

   22. EWEric Weinstein30:38

       Okay.

   23. JRJoe Rogan30:38

       You're 100% doomed. He's gonna grab that leather jacket, and basically it has handles. And he's gonna throw you up in the air, and he's gonna hit you with the world.... the whole world (slaps table) is below.

   24. EWEric Weinstein30:49

       Okay.

   25. JRJoe Rogan30:49

       And he's gonna drive you into the world and you're so fucked and you don't even realize it.

   26. EWEric Weinstein30:56

       Joe, how often do you end up in fist fights?

   27. JRJoe Rogan30:57

       Never.

   28. EWEric Weinstein30:59

       (laughs)

   29. JRJoe Rogan30:59

       Never, man. I, I don't, I don't wanna have nothing to do with that. I just get away. I would never wanna get in a fist fight.

   30. EWEric Weinstein31:05

       No, I know-
9. 40:54 – 50:19

   Why physics is hard to explain: expanding universe, Big Bang honesty, and better metaphors

   1. EWEric Weinstein40:54

      Wait, wait, wait. Before we get onto cutting dicks-

   2. JRJoe Rogan40:55

      Mm-hmm.

   3. EWEric Weinstein40:55

      ... I, I do wanna, uh, pick up on an analogy which I'm curious about.

   4. JRJoe Rogan41:00

      Mm-hmm.

   5. EWEric Weinstein41:00

      So when you're trying to describe the ground game, uh-

   6. JRJoe Rogan41:02

      Yeah.

   7. EWEric Weinstein41:04

      ... it's super tough for a lay audience because it, the, the, the picture doesn't necessarily match what you're seeing because the, the layer of expertise makes a bunch of random arm movements and, and head movements and hip movements-

   8. JRJoe Rogan41:15

      Yeah.

   9. EWEric Weinstein41:16

      ... into something else. We have the same problem in, like, math and physics, where everybody wants to know-

   10. JRJoe Rogan41:21

       Mm-hmm.

   11. EWEric Weinstein41:22

       ... "What the, what's going on with that thing?" And then, when you... I, I've been listening to, like, the physicists on your program, I don't think you have many mathematicians, but it's so confusing-

   12. JRJoe Rogan41:32

       Mm-hmm.

   13. EWEric Weinstein41:32

       ... to figure out how to talk to the world about things that people, everybody wants to know about. And I was just curious as, if you saw a parallel, uh, in those two things. Those are both-

   14. JRJoe Rogan41:42

       Certainly, yeah.

   15. EWEric Weinstein41:43

       ... very high art forms.

   16. JRJoe Rogan41:44

       Yeah. Um, Sean Carroll has done a really good job of trying to explain things. Neil deGrasse Tyson's done a really good job of trying to explain things.

   17. EWEric Weinstein41:51

       Well, I s- I saw, um, the explanation of gauge symmetry-

   18. JRJoe Rogan41:56

       Lawrence Krauss?

   19. EWEric Weinstein41:57

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan41:57

       Yeah.

   21. EWEric Weinstein41:57

       On your show, which is, like, from t- t- f- to my way of thinking, one of the most important principles in the world.

   22. JRJoe Rogan42:03

       Yet, I still have no idea what the fuck he said.

   23. EWEric Weinstein42:04

       Exactly.

   24. JRJoe Rogan42:05

       (laughs)

   25. EWEric Weinstein42:05

       Well, like...

   26. JRJoe Rogan42:06

       Well, I read his book.

   27. EWEric Weinstein42:07

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan42:08

       And after I read his book, that was the number one question I had.

   29. EWEric Weinstein42:10

       Right.

   30. JRJoe Rogan42:10

       I said, "Okay, I need you to explain to me what is gauge symmetry?" What does that mean?
10. 50:19 – 1:00:24

    Gauge symmetry via visualization: Hopf fibration, bundles, and reference levels

    1. JRJoe Rogan50:19

       Hmm. So back to gauge theory.

    2. EWEric Weinstein50:22

       Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan50:22

       Gauge symmetry. What the hell is that?

    4. EWEric Weinstein50:25

       All right. Well, here's the, here's the craziest thing.

    5. JRJoe Rogan50:28

       Okay.

    6. EWEric Weinstein50:29

       There is a very confusing visual image of the fundamental unit that you need to appreciate what gauge symmetry is all about. And, uh, I had Jamie load it up, um, under the tab called Planet Hopf. And this is gonna be-

    7. JRJoe Rogan50:45

       H-O-P-F?

    8. EWEric Weinstein50:46

       Eh, H-O-P-F.

    9. JRJoe Rogan50:48

       What the fuck am I looking at?

    10. EWEric Weinstein50:50

        You are looking at the most important object in the universe.

    11. JRJoe Rogan50:53

        What?

    12. EWEric Weinstein50:54

        'Cause-

    13. JRJoe Rogan50:56

        That looks like some, uh, trippy screensaver on your laptop.

    14. EWEric Weinstein50:59

        Take another puff, my friend-

    15. JRJoe Rogan51:01

        (laughs)

    16. EWEric Weinstein51:01

        ... because it's worth it. Uh, this is, what you're looking at is a principal fiber bundle.

    17. JRJoe Rogan51:08

        And it's, uh-

    18. EWEric Weinstein51:09

        And it is the only-

    19. JRJoe Rogan51:09

        ... the Earth. Those are the continents I'm looking at.

    20. EWEric Weinstein51:12

        Well, that's, yeah, that's the cool part about it, which is this is very confusing to figure out what you're looking at, but it's finite. In other words, it, if we stay, uh, for an hour or two on this and we actually answer all your questions, you will actually know what a principal bundle is, and you will know the arena in which gauge theory exists.

    21. JRJoe Rogan51:30

        For folks at home that are just listening and they, well, "What the fuck are these guys talking about?" What is the name of this video, Jamie?

    22. GUGuest51:37

        It's not a video. It's-

    23. JRJoe Rogan51:38

        It's not a video.

    24. GUGuest51:39

        It's a small file on a page. I typed in Planet Hopf, and it was the first thing that showed up on math.toronto.edu.

    25. JRJoe Rogan51:46

        Okay, so-

    26. GUGuest51:47

        It's the extended thing.

    27. JRJoe Rogan51:48

        Planet H-O-P-F-

    28. GUGuest51:50

        Yeah.

    29. JRJoe Rogan51:50

        ... for anybody who wants to look at this, if you're just listening and you have no idea why I'm freaking out. So-

    30. EWEric Weinstein51:56

        And this, this was done by, uh, a friend of mine named Dror Bar-Natan. I actually coded the same thing up. Um, strangely enough, didn't do, uh, uh, as brilliant a job of coloring it. And-
11. 1:00:24 – 1:05:06

    Holonomy and curvature: Escher stairs, Aharonov–Bohm, and why words fail

    1. GUGuest1:00:24

       Yep.

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:24

       Uh.

    3. EWEric Weinstein1:00:24

       And Jamie has a nice wrinkle on this that instead of using M.C. Escher's staircase, he's got this animated guy who just keeps going down.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:32

       Hm.

    5. EWEric Weinstein1:00:33

       All right. Now what's going on with those stairs? Now those stairs are sort of an optical illusion because obviously it can't just keep going down. But then you build these sys- systems like rock, paper, scissors. What's the best thing to throw in rock, paper, scissors?

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:47

       Well, it depends on what you throw.

    7. EWEric Weinstein1:00:49

       Well, but we should be able to agree that rock is better than scissors.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:52

       Rock is better than scissors-

    9. EWEric Weinstein1:00:53

       So scissors-

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:00:53

        ... but paper is better than rock.

    11. EWEric Weinstein1:00:56

        Right. So you go around that thing, and now the, the point is that you get to, like, "Rock is much better than rock!" Right? And yeah-

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:01:01

        Yes.

    13. EWEric Weinstein1:01:01

        ... that seems crazy.

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:01:02

        Seems crazy.

    15. EWEric Weinstein1:01:02

        Now that concept would be what we would call holonomy, the weird sentence, "Rock is better than rock" because of that going around the loop.

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:01:09

        But why, why rock is better than rock? I don't get it. Like-

    17. EWEric Weinstein1:01:12

        Well, rock-

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:01:13

        ... rock is better than scissors.

    19. EWEric Weinstein1:01:14

        ... is better than scissors, scissors is better than paper.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:01:15

        Right.

    21. EWEric Weinstein1:01:16

        Paper is better than rock.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:01:17

        Right.

    23. EWEric Weinstein1:01:17

        So by transitivity, rock is therefore better than rock because you went around the loop and came back to rock.

    24. GUGuest1:01:23

        It's like MMA math.

    25. JRJoe Rogan1:01:25

        Yeah.

    26. GUGuest1:01:25

        Yeah. You take what you came to.

    27. EWEric Weinstein1:01:26

        Or if, like, if y- if you're ch- if you're changing, uh, currencies and you don't spend any of it because you keep u- losi- using your credit card-... by the time you come home, you have more money than when you left because the exchange rates did something so that when you changed into each currency, you, you, you somehow got richer.

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:01:43

        But by saying rock is better than rock, you're denying the fact they're exactly the same.

    29. EWEric Weinstein1:01:46

        Like, well, no. That, that-

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:01:48

        You're not, you're not addressing it, you just wanna continue to say-
12. 1:05:06 – 1:21:54

    Spinors and 720° rotation: Dirac’s square root, stability of matter, and “portals”

    1. EWEric Weinstein1:05:06

       ... there's, you know ... One of the most important things in the world is this thing called a spinner. Like the electrons and the protons correspond to things called spinners. And the average person has no idea that spinners exist. What's more, spinners have a property that, when I tell it to you linguistically, won't make any sense. (knock on door) All right. I'm-

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:05:27

       Okay.

    3. EWEric Weinstein1:05:27

       Good. Let's do this with coffee.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:05:29

       Hit me with it.

    5. EWEric Weinstein1:05:30

       Okay. So-

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:05:31

       Once more?

    7. EWEric Weinstein1:05:32

       Yeah. Thank you, sir. Perfect.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:05:34

       Okay.

    9. EWEric Weinstein1:05:35

       All right. Now here's the problem.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:05:37

        Okay.

    11. EWEric Weinstein1:05:37

        Hold your cup. No.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:05:38

        Sorry.

    13. EWEric Weinstein1:05:39

        From the bottom.

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:05:40

        All right.

    15. EWEric Weinstein1:05:41

        And here's the first challenge. Without spilling it-

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:05:43

        Okay.

    17. EWEric Weinstein1:05:44

        ... I want you, and without readjusting your grip on the bottom of your cup, I want you to turn your cup 360 degrees. No, no, no. Uh, sorry. Turn ... Your, your fingers should not change on the cup.

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:05:56

        Oh, okay.

    19. EWEric Weinstein1:05:57

        Turn the cup 360 degrees without spilling it and try to take a sip. Okay. That, that didn't work.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:06:08

        No.

    21. EWEric Weinstein1:06:08

        Now, without coming back-

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:06:10

        (laughs)

    23. EWEric Weinstein1:06:10

        ... how would you take a sip?

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:06:11

        If I got it all the way around that way?

    25. EWEric Weinstein1:06:13

        Yeah. (slurping) Mr. Jujitsu man.

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:06:16

        I would have to, uh ... I would have to help myself.

    27. EWEric Weinstein1:06:21

        Yeah, no, no. You're gonna do it. All right. You ready?

    28. JRJoe Rogan1:06:24

        Yeah.

    29. EWEric Weinstein1:06:24

        Okay. Here we go.

    30. JRJoe Rogan1:06:25

        Okay. Are you gonna-

Episode duration: 3:51:46