EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,001 words- 0:00 – 15:00
... and five, four,…
- JRJoe Rogan
... and five, four, three, two, one. (sound of microphone being hit) Is it hanging up on us?
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
(clears throat)
- JRJoe Rogan
We're live?
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
(clears throat)
- JRJoe Rogan
We're live. Dr. Phil, we're live. Someone's calling you. What's going on? Tell these people to fuck off. (laughs)
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
Yeah, some of those people I was trying to find. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
Now they're saying, "Oh, shit."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
(laughs) You know, let them worry.
- JRJoe Rogan
Um, out of all the years you've been doing your show and all the years you've been giving advice, how, how did this Catch Me Outside girl, how did this happen?
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
Oh, God.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
I... (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Out of all the different shows.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
I got to go now. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) Out of all the different shows, you made a monster.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
I know. I mean, it's my moment of infamy.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
Uh, no seriously, this girl comes on with her mother (clears throat) and... Or her mother actually brings her on, of course, and, uh, uh, she's a train wreck. And we work with her, and we send her to this ranch for, like, four months, right? She goes for a long time and makes a complete turnaround, does a, really, a great job. They say she's become a leader. She's working with all these girls, doing a great job. And then she graduates, and I remember this last shot when we do this, this piece at the ranch. She jumps up on this fence and is smiling and everything, and waving and all. One night home with her mother, one night, and her mother's finding people that are trashing her, the mother, on, on, uh, these social media platforms. Her mother tracks them down, backs him to who they are, gets their phone numbers, calls them up, yelling into the phone, calling them names and stuff, gets the daughter involved. One night crashes. So they come back for a follow-up, like, I don't know, a month or two later, and when they come, I say, "Okay, we're gonna have them back." They walk out, I have the audience completely empty. I have nobody there to play to. I mean, 250 chairs empty, nobody in the house but me, the mother, and the daughter.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's a good move.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
And they go, "What? Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, well, where is everybody?" I said, "Well, you don't need anybody. We're just here to talk and, you know, keep things rolling," right? And they were dumbstruck. They, there was nobody there to showboat for or, or play to, and that was like a 15-minute interview. They had nothing to say. And off they go, and then (sighs) this phrase that got turned into a, you know, whatever, a meme or whatever they call it-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
... um, it just went crazy. And what, I... She was nominated for a Grammy or something?
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
Serio- I'm serious. Uh... (clapping sounds)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
So I'm... I, I take no credit or blame. I, you know, I just did what I could and haven't seen or said... I wish everybody well. Maybe she'll turn some... Maybe it'll grow her up, she'll turn something positive out of it. I hope so.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, that's a very good attitude, a very healthy attitude for you. But it is... When something goes viral like that, something strange that, for whatever reason, it catches and takes off, it's... It doesn't make any sense. It's a very weird thing.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
Y- It makes no sense.
- 15:00 – 30:00
Yeah, you know, Tony…
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
self-worth, and they really don't know where to go. So, uh, and that's why I do the show. I don't... Look, I'm not out of the misapprehension that we're doing eight-minute cures up there. I mean, come on. You, you, you, uh, we're not doing that. But I think if you can point people in the right direction, if you can raise their awareness, you can get them thinking about it, you can create a narrative where they at least say, you know, "How do I feel about myself?" I mean, "Is there stuff I need to resolve?" I mean, "What am I saying to myself?" If you can get them thinking about that, then, you know, maybe you've done something.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, you know, Tony Robbins once said once that, uh, it's incremental changes over the long haul, and the way you have to look at it is if these two boats are going in a parallel direction and one of them just shifts five degrees-
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... over the course of time, this boat is gonna be in a far different place than the other boat that's going the same way it was always going.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
Yeah, and the important thing to realize as well is (clears throat) the next year is gonna go by whether you're doing something about your life or not. I mean, we're, we're sitting here right now at the end of February, and the next ten months are gonna go by whether somebody is working to make change or whether they're not. And they may think, you know, "Oh my God, I'm so far overweight, I'll never get it under control," or, "I'm so behind in my bills," or, "I'm so, um, you know, just depressed," or, uh, "My everything is so out of control." Well, you know what? You make those incremental changes and then, you know, pretty soon i- in December you go, "Hey, I'm way better off than I was at the end of February." So shit, w- you made little changes and they all added up. And if you don't, by the end of the year, you're just in deeper. So every little bit matters.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, I, I tell people to write things down. I say one of the best ways to get things done is to write things down, write down what you're trying to get done, write down what you need to get done on a long-term basis and what you need to get done on a short-term basis, and write off a checklist. Force yourself. Be accountable.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
Yeah, the difference between a dream and a goal is a timeline and accountability.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
You know what I mean?
- JRJoe Rogan
Accountability is gigantic.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
You gotta have somebody, uh, whether it's yourself or a friend or somebody that's gonna say, "Look, did you do what you said you were gonna do by this time? And if you don't, hold your feet to the fire." Because, I mean, just sitting around dreaming, "Some day," you know what I mean?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
"Someday I'm gonna get a different job. Someday I'm gonna change this." Well, someday ain't a day of the week. You know, there's Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Look on your calendar. Someday's not on there. So you, you gotta say, "Okay, uh, I wanna take this small step by here, this small step by there, this small step by there," and then pretty soon... You know, we don't leap s- tall buildings in a single bound. We take it a floor at a time. And that matters.
- JRJoe Rogan
Now, over all the years you've been doing your show, you've developed a real community, right? I mean, you, you, you really have made an impact. If you stop and think about all the people... that your show's touched, and all the people that have listened to your advice, and all the people that have taken that advice and, and made those little incremental changes in their lives and set those goals and held themselves accountable, I mean, that's a pretty significant thing.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
Well, I, I hope so. I mean, I, uh, I think... Uh, I know that...... there's a stigma attached to mental illness, and that really bothers me. There should not be. I mean, having depression or anxiety or whatever to me should have no more stigma than having a knee injury or a kidney infection or-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
... diabetes. But there is-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
... a stigma attached to it. And I've tried to talk about this in a way where it's okay to talk about it and not be ashamed of it. It's, it's okay. If you've got anxiety, you got PTSD, what, whatever, l- it's okay. Let's talk about it, let's get help for it, get it behind you and move on. I mean, it, it's not, it's not something that you should be ashamed of.
- JRJoe Rogan
What are you... When you're talking to someone that maybe has depression, do you try to get them to exercise first? Do you try to get them-
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
(clears throat)
- JRJoe Rogan
... to visit a psychiatrist immediately and get on medication? Like, do you take it on a case-by-case basis?
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
Well, I do. But y- you have to approach it... Everybody has a philosophy about it. And I'm not saying that mine's any better than anybody else's, but I do have a philosophy about it, and I'm very slow to medication. I mean, I, I think-
- JRJoe Rogan
Good for you.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
... I think you use medication for biochemical replacement. I mean, if for some reason your body is not making enough of something it needs, then maybe you support it short term biochemically. But, you know, I, (clears throat) I, I look at depression... I, I... There's a lot of ways you can break it up, but I look at it like, is it exogenous depression or endogenous depression? I mean, is it coming from the inside out, or the outside in? Is it because you're reacting to something? I see a lot of depressed people that, in a sense, it makes sense.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
I mean, you look at their life and you say, "Well, if you're not down about this, you should be. I mean, you've lost your job, you've gotten a divorce, your health is in the shitter, your... I mean, you should be down about this." It's external things, so y- you don't need a pill, I mean, to put somebody in a chemical straitjacket because their life's falling apart. What the hell's that gonna do?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
Th- that's just putting goggles on them where they can't see it. I, I would much rather get them to behave their way to success and say, "What are you reacting to that you're depressed about? Let's put that on a to-do list and start," like you said, "Write it down, and start crossing those things off. Let's figure, what's an action plan to change this? An action plan to change the next thing, an action plan..." And then when you start doing that, then you generally see their mood lift. A lot of people that are depressed are just realistically reacting to a crummy circumstance in their life. It's not necessarily a, a mental illness, it's just a re- realistic reaction to a bad spot in their life.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, that's such a way, good way of putting it too.
- 30:00 – 45:00
Yeah. I had my…
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
And if you give a kid that does not need a neocortical stimulant a stimulant, you're really gonna throw 'em off the charts now, 'cause you're -- you've got a normally active brain that you're now making hyperactive. So you're creating a problem that didn't exist before you gave them the medication because you didn't do the proper diagnosis.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. I had my old neighbor had a situation like that. They had a kid, and the kid was just -- had a lot of energy, and they weren't paying attention to him. And so they started medicating him.It's insanely common.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
Yeah. And you, you, you cannot chemically babysit your children.
- JRJoe Rogan
And who knows where these kids are gonna be 20, 30 years from now? I mean, we're just looking at e- this rash of people being treated for these ailments, air quotes, and then w- we're not seeing how this all turns out in the long run and how much damage we're doing to these people.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
No. And, and, in fairness, on the other end of the continuum, I have seen some people that are clearly psychotic, uh, schizophrenics, delusional, that without medication are absolutely impossible to manage. But if you put 'em on antipsychotics, and so you can lower their delusional behavior, their hallucinatory behavior, so you can now have a meaningful conversation with them so they can respond to talking therapies, it makes all the difference in the world. And without those antipsychotics, you would be lost-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
... without them. So there are some medications for some disorders that are absolute miracles that without them, you wouldn't be able to do the work you need to do to get the person back where they need to be.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, unquestionably. I mean, there's definitely a lot of great pharmaceutical drugs that help a lot of people. Do you get pushback from a lot of these positions from, uh, the established medical community?
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
You know, sometimes. But I, you know, mostly when you talk to people about it thoughtfully, um, they agree with, with what I'm saying. I mean, most people will agree that you need to be thoughtful about, uh, prescribing medications, and that medications are too readily administered. I mean, that's certainly what we've seen in the opioid epidemic right now. Um, opioids are so readily prescribed right now that there are enough opioid prescriptions for every man, woman, and child in America to have their own bottle.
- JRJoe Rogan
Whew.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
And if you renew that prescription one time, one time, if you are taking those opioids at the seven-day mark, your chance of being addicted at one year is one in 12. And if you renew it at... If you're still taking 'em at 30 days, your likelihood of being addicted is one in three.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
And these things are getting written with way too high a pill count. And it's, and so the addictions, uh, we're, we're seeing a whole different kind of addiction now coming out of the suburbs. And they take 'em for a while, and they're very expensive, and after they take 'em for a while, heroin's cheaper. So they dump the opioids and start taking the heroin. So you're seeing soccer mom heroin addicts that you weren't seeing 10 years ago, because they get started on prescription opioids, and then they can't afford them, or finally the doctor cuts them off, but they're addicted, and so they start taking heroin 'cause it's cheaper.
- JRJoe Rogan
Now, this is obviously a very disturbing pattern, but where do you see this going? Like, when you look at the future, I mean, it looks bleak in that regard. I mean, I've known several people that have had real problems with pills.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
Yeah. The problem that, that I think people have is they think, "Well, because a doctor gave me this, because it's on a prescription-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
... pad, that this is safe." It, it... Your body doesn't know whether you got that in a back alley or you got it from a doctor. Um, it, it still has the same addictive quality. And I think it is at an epidemic level. And I've testified before Congress about this, and I, I think there are several levels of accountability, at the manufacturing level, and at the prescription level, and at the educational level, so people understand. Uh, I think everybody has to take part of it, and I'm doing everything I can to raise the awareness about it as well.
- JRJoe Rogan
When you testified before Congress, what was the reaction?
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
Uh, they're very much aware, uh, that this has become a serious, serious problem, because the, the cost, a- as, as you see the lost labor in the workforce is in the billions of dollars. You, you see the, the, uh, demands on the healthcare system that this is creating, um, young mothers with, with children and babies born addicted, uh, to these opioids. I mean, the numbers are just going through the roof. So I, I mean, it's putting a strain financially on the healthcare system that it just can't stand. So y- you, you start costing money and it starts getting politicians' op- attention. So they start saying, "Okay, now we gotta start doing something." So they, they get it. They get that there's a problem.
- JRJoe Rogan
What could they do though once the, it seems like once that genie's out of the bottle...
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
Well, clearly, th- you've got to start educating people, and the manufacturers have to be required to start labeling this much more clearly. Physicians have to be much more, um, uh, conservative in prescribing. Um, you know, I just had this shoulder surgery, and, um, I, I took like one, one opioid, one pill they gave me in the hospital, and after that, y- you can manage it with like Tylenol or something, 'cause the surgeons now are so good with the arthroscopic surgeries and stuff. It's so, so much less of an insult to the body, uh, that with ice and Tylenol and stuff, you can manage it if you just kind of focus on it a little bit. And, and I'm not saying if, if you've had surgery and, and you're having organic pain, for God's sakes, get ahead of the pain and stay ahead. But...... when you -- as soon as you can get off of it, get off of it. You know what I mean?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, and understand what's happening.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
Yeah. There, there's no sense in being like macho, but you don't need a leather strap between your teeth to go have some surgery.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
I mean, shit, if it hurts, take the pill and get past it. But realize, the minute you can get away from that, you need to get away from it. But, you know, they don't need to give you a 30-day supply.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
They need to give you three or four days.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
And then you gotta go see your doctor again, and if it's still a problem, discuss it. I mean, that's what th- that's what I think needs to happen, is just be a lot more conservative about what you're giving.
- JRJoe Rogan
Is the... The problem is these pharmaceutical companies make so much money.
- 45:00 – 1:00:00
Right. …
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
I kinda take a month and let everybody go unwrap, you know, just kinda unwind and relax and kick back and do whatever they wanna do. And then we start meeting and focusing on, okay, how can we reinvent ourselves for next season? How can we tell our stories better? How can we broaden our horizons, do things different so that we raise our game? 'Cause we're kinda competing with ourselves. There's, you know, we're kind of in a category by ourselves. We're the only one that does what we do, and we've been number one for a long time because I got a really hardworking team, but we're in a s- Nobody else tries to do what we do.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
So we're kinda competing with ourselves. And so w- we're, we work real hard to figure out, how can we have a bigger impact? How can we tell this more effectively? What techniques can we come up with that make this even more powerful, more impactful than what it is? And that's what, you know, that's what really gets me moving.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it's very telling. It's, I mean, that's why I would imagine you moved towards doing a podcast-
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
(clears throat)
- JRJoe Rogan
... where it's less restrictive and more open-ended, and you can kinda do-
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... whatever you want and... But it's, that's pretty cool that out of all these years of doing that and giving out advice, you still find this, uh, this passion to, to make it better and to do it from a different angle.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
Yeah. And, you know, I'm as excited about... We're just about to wrap, you know, our 17th season.
- JRJoe Rogan
17 seasons.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
And, uh, that's a lot.
- JRJoe Rogan
Damn. How many episodes you done?
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
Coming up on 3,000, um, and I did Oprah for five years before.
- JRJoe Rogan
God. 3,000.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
And, uh, so that's, that's 22 s- years.
- JRJoe Rogan
(imitates explosion)
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
And then, uh, and then I just renewed for five years.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
So I'm renewed out to 2023 or whatever.
- JRJoe Rogan
Did you hesitate before you signed that? Like, "What am I do-
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
Well, I-
- JRJoe Rogan
Maybe I should go fishing."
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
You know, Robin and I thought about it, but, well, what am I gonna do? I mean, I don't, uh, uh, you know, I don't wanna s-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, you enjoy it, obviously.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
I do.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
I, I enjoy it.
- JRJoe Rogan
You could tell.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
And, uh, yeah, I've always told my team that the thing that we don't want, I don't wanna get bored.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- 1:00:00 – 1:15:00
Yeah. …
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
go to a certain place if you don't have a little of that in you. Uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
... my, my dad used to always say when he was working with patients, he would say, "There's something about that old boy I can't stand about me."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
Because he'd say, "You can't see it in them if you don't have a little of it in you."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. Yeah.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
And I think there's some truth in that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, there's 100% truth in that. That is the thing that drives me the craziest about weak people. I'm so terrified of seeing weakness and, and, and just, just, uh, just, just being pathetic. I'm so terrified of seeing that in myself.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
I see it in other people, and it just... It smells. I smell it like a drug-sniffing dog.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, "Oh, there it is."
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
Yeah. You smell desperation and weakness.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes. Weakness.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
So what makes you do this? Why are you doing a podcast?
- JRJoe Rogan
I have always been a blabbermouth.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I can never shut the fuck up. I love talking. And, uh, I've always been fascinated by human beings and their lives, and just talking to people and finding out... Like the guy before was, uh, this guy, Ioan Grillo, who's a, uh, a narcotics, uh, journalist. He's a narco journalist in, in Mexico.I mean, I couldn't wait to talk to that guy.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. I mean, just, what a life. I mean, he's been living in Mexico for 18 years. He's from England. And I- that-
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
And still alive.
- JRJoe Rogan
Still alive.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
I mean, that's, that's something right there.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. And, you know, he was telling me about friends that have been killed and, you know, he's been in some sticky situations a few times. And, you know, um, I'm just fascinated by p- by people and what they like to do. You know? I'm fascinated by athletes, I'm fascinated by physicists. I, uh, I've just always been very, very curious and, um, I've always recognized that everyone thinks about things differently and that I could take a little bit of something from everybody. Whether it's from a book or it's from having a conversation with someone, I can gain a little bit of, of, a little bit of experience, a little bit of knowledge, a little bit of insight.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
Yeah. You're naturally very curious, 'cause I, I listen to your interviews and you're naturally very curious. You don't struggle for the next question 'cause you really want to know something. That makes it much easier.
- JRJoe Rogan
I was very lucky that I found this.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
(laughs) Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Just very, just stumbled into doing this kind of shit. And it, it wasn't this way in the beginning. In the beg- beginning it was just horse shitting with friends and, and slowly but surely as the pod- the podcast became popular I was like, "I wonder if that guy would talk to me." And then I would get people on and then it became more of these long form interesting conversations.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
Yeah. Yeah. A- and if you're curious about human functioning at all, human nature at all, there's an endless menu of things you can talk about.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- 1:15:00 – 1:20:49
Yeah. …
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
him. He would s- you know, he'd r- run everything through his head. And (clears throat) he's one of those guys that wants the ball when the clock's running out.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
But I, I have this theory that situations do not make heroes. Situations expose heroes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
And I saw that in Katrina, uh, the hurricane (clears throat) that so devastated that, that one neighborhood. What ward was it? Was it the Ninth Ward? I forget which ward it was that got so wiped out, uh, when Katrina hit New Orleans. And there was a guy down there that had been really quiet. Nobody had ever heard anything out of him. He was an older guy, lived in a house, stayed to himself. And that night, when the water was at rooftop level, I mean, he swam rooftop to rooftop and saved six, seven, eight people, got him out of there. And he didn't make it out, but he got seven or eight people out of there. And you go back and you check his history, and he was a military hero. He just sat quietly in his home. And when the situation cr- came about, it revealed who he was. And I think that's what happens. I think if, if you've got a hero, they just sit there, sit there, sit there until a situation reveals who they are. I don't think it makes them a hero. I think it reveals that they're heroes. And I, I, I think that's what happens to people. They, they are who they are until they get... and then the opportunity comes along, and they're gonna show you who that is. They may show you they're a coward, or they may show you that they've got the focus to hang, or they may show you that they're a hero, but life circumstances are gonna come along, and they're gonna show you who somebody is.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. I, I completely agree.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
(clears throat)
- JRJoe Rogan
And I think what's also interesting is when someone does get revealed to be a coward, they can become a hero.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
But it's very hard.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's very hard to get past the re-
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
(clears throat)
- JRJoe Rogan
... the memory of you being a coward.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
Well, and I'll tell you why I think that's true, if you wanna know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Please.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
I mean, maybe you don't... I'm r-
- JRJoe Rogan
Want to know everything.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
... going off on a, going off on a tangent.
- JRJoe Rogan
Come on.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
(clears throat) No, I think, I think we learn about ourselves. And, you know, everybody talks about self-esteem and self-worth, but nobody ever talks about what it really is or how we get it. And I, I think, I think about it in terms of self-attribution, because you know how you form opinions of other people? Like, if you look at this guy, and you, you maybe you work with this guy, and so you watch him across a couple of years. And maybe this guy shows up to work every day, and he's there 15 minutes early. And he unlocks the place, gets everything ready, puts the coffee on, has his desk ready. He's all buttoned up. And man, when the bell rings, he's ready to go. And y- you just learn that this guy's buttoned up, ready to go, dependable, never misses. He's always there. So you attribute certain traits and characteristics to him based on your observations of him and your experience of him. Based on that, you assign certain traits and characteristics to him. But I say that's exactly the same way we form our own self-image and our own level of self-worth. We watch ourselves go through life, and we watch how we handle certain circumstances and situations. And that's why I say overindulgence is one of the most insidious forms of child abuse m- known to parenting. Uh, it's not the worst, it's just insidious, because if you overindulge your children and do everything for them, you never let them observe themselves master their environment. You never let them w- step back and say, "Wow, I did that."
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- PMDr. Phil McGraw
"I built this. I overcame that. I handled this. I did that." And so we... That's the same way we make our own s- self-image and level of self-worth. We watch ourselves overcome the third grade. We watch ourselves stand up to a bully. We watch ourself-... Handle a test with i- information that intimidated us, or we watch ourselves make it onto the little league baseball team and actually get a hit when we needed to, or we watch ourselves get onto the debate team and actually argue something successfully. Whether it's academic or athletic or musical, we watch ourselves do it. And so we go back and say, "Hey, I did that. I attribute to myself the ability. I can hang, I can do this, I can rise to the occasion." Or we watch ourselves fold like a pup tent in a windstorm and say, you know, "I, I, I can't hang. I don't have it." And we make those attributions to ourselves, and so we shrink from the challenge for the rest of our lives until, like you said, it's hard to overcome that and something pushes you up until you finally observe yourself overcome something. And I think that's how we form our level of self-esteem and our identity about who we are, and I don't think most people f- think about that, g- look back and say, "Okay, how did I, how did I get to be Joe Rogan as I sit in that chair?" You have a self-image, you have a level of confidence, and, uh, ego strength, um, a level of self-worth. That's attributable to things you've watched yourself do or not do, achieve, not achieve, overcome or whatever throughout your life. And y- and I think to know yourself, you have to know what those things are.
- JRJoe Rogan
I think you're 100% right.
Episode duration: 1:36:29
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