EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,123 words- 0:00 – 15:00
Boom, and we're live.…
- JRJoe Rogan
Boom, and we're live.
- RBRussell Brand
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Russell, why is it then when people start getting, like, super spiritual, they start dressing like you?
- RBRussell Brand
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
You dress like a guru.
- RBRussell Brand
We circulate a memo-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RBRussell Brand
... saying, "It's now time to stop wearing socks-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RBRussell Brand
... stop shaving, and make eye contact for a bit too long."
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, uncomfortable eye contact.
- RBRussell Brand
And uncomfortable. Keep a bit starey.
- JRJoe Rogan
How long are you gonna go with the beard? I mean, that's, that's like, you're, you're full on, like, you're a yogi now.
- RBRussell Brand
I mean, it's gone beyond Jesus and into-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RBRussell Brand
... Moses and the lesser prophets of the Old Testament.
- JRJoe Rogan
Or, or a Navy SEAL. You're in that range, too.
- RBRussell Brand
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, you could be some wild man.
- RBRussell Brand
That's, that's a mistake that wouldn't... (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RBRussell Brand
Like, if there was an assault course in front of us, that, that, the potential for me being a Navy SEAL would start to break down. I once went on a, an assault course with some US Marines in that place near San Diego, I can't remember the name of that base, and climbing up that rope using your-
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- RBRussell Brand
... leg muscles, it was not good value.
- JRJoe Rogan
Didn't enjoy it?
- RBRussell Brand
I liked the camaraderie.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RBRussell Brand
And I really l- uh, like, I, as I've written about and talk about quite a lot, when I'm around very, in very male environments, I kind of really like it. I really get off on it, but I have to watch myself not getting too excitable. It's even in this environment as a matter of fact. I have to keep myself-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RBRussell Brand
... a little bit chilled out. And like-
- 15:00 – 30:00
Hmm. …
- RBRussell Brand
energy. He was able to sort of, like, direct it at me. And, like, in that moment in myself, all bewildered, I wasn't able to do it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- RBRussell Brand
You know, I needed to resource it externally in a moment.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- RBRussell Brand
So this is how I sort of feel like your individual journey ... I'm interested in how, 'cause I'm guessing with your background in martial arts and stuff, mentorship seems pretty much stitched into that. You must continually be looking at someone, learning from someone-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RBRussell Brand
... trying to equal them or whatever it is.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, the good part about that is you get good at learning things and you get good at listening. You know, uh, as a martial arts student, you, you don't just listen. You listen very intently. You bow. You say, "Sir." You know, I mean, there's, uh, there's so much discipline involved in the, the a- the act of learning.
- RBRussell Brand
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And so much reverence and respect for people who know more than you, and appreciation. So, uh, that, that helped me with pretty much everything I ever wanted to learn. I just would listen very intently. And I don't think, "Ah, maybe I could figure it out better." I w- I'm very good at listening to people that are good at things.
- RBRussell Brand
That's interesting. Did you first get into, uh, like, you know, I've picked up stuff over the sh- various shows that, of yours that I've listened to, but w- would you say that your inaugural interest in martial arts came from kind of domestic distress and stuff?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RBRussell Brand
Where you're having a difficult home life and then not a good relationship with your stepdad. Am I right in saying?
- JRJoe Rogan
There was that, but it was, uh, was also move- moving more than anything. You know, and my stepdad's a nice guy, um, but it was... Stepdads, it's always a weird situation, you know? But-
- RBRussell Brand
No one likes the dynamic of someone having sex with their mother.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RBRussell Brand
I remember (laughs) -
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RBRussell Brand
... having, with similar feelings about my own stepdad. What was I doing in there?
- JRJoe Rogan
He's a great guy, though. I don't want to, like-
- RBRussell Brand
No, of course.
- JRJoe Rogan
... p- paint him in a bad way.
- RBRussell Brand
No.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's just, what was really hard was moving a lot and running into bullies. That was w- way harder than anything else.
- RBRussell Brand
So there was a time in your life where you felt very, uh, presumably vulnerable-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- RBRussell Brand
... and not grounded.
- JRJoe Rogan
Didn't have any friends, constantly moving to new neighborhoods, meeting new people. And, uh, you know, and when you're a young boy or a teenage boy, teenage boys are fucking dangerous, man.
- RBRussell Brand
Yeah, they're the worst.
- JRJoe Rogan
They're the worst, yeah.
- 30:00 – 45:00
Yeah. …
- JRJoe Rogan
and you, you're around that and you just, uh, it's, it's very convenient and very easy to just generalize and decide that all men are negative-
- RBRussell Brand
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and that m- masculine energy is negative, and especially white males. And if you say that, you'll get pr-... props online. People go, "Yes, girl. Yes. Clap, clap, clap."
- RBRussell Brand
(clapping)
- JRJoe Rogan
People get excited. But those are also people that are short-sighted. Like you wanna make as many people your ally as you can. You wanna make as many people your friend as you can. And you have to understand that there's some people that are just wired different than you. There's some, there's some girly girls and there's some really feminine men-
- RBRussell Brand
(inhales deeply)
- JRJoe Rogan
... and then there's some masculine men, and then ev- and- but everybody is okay as long as they respect you and they're kind to each other. But the problem is, we associate certain behaviors and characteristics with either negativity or hedonism or, uh, uh, toxic masculinity or someone being a, a bitch as a man, and, uh, that's... These generalizations are often way more harmful and just, it's just too convenient and easy and lazy for the most part.
- RBRussell Brand
Yeah, there is no simple way. And I, when I think about my own attitudes in this area, there is a degree of complexity 'cause I've got young daughters. I've got a two-year-old (inhales deeply) and a one-year-old, right? And they're, you know, daughters. So like, but when... The other day, um, 'cause I'm staying in Los Angeles, Gabby, she's Mexican, she used to w- when I first moved out here and lived my Entourage lifestyle, she used to look after the house. And she used to think, uh, "Oh, my baby, my baby." She loved me so and I'd like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RBRussell Brand
... I'll take a matriarchal figure wherever I can find one, and Gabby used to look after me. She adored me and stuff. I stayed friends with her.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RBRussell Brand
Yesterday, she come around. She bought like a, like what I can only describe as a bikini for like my baby daughter.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RBRussell Brand
Like now what, a two-year-old doesn't need like, like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. Right.
- RBRussell Brand
... a bikini, like top. And I... Excuse me, burping on the mic. I like, uh, uh, for me, I felt like, "I don't wanna put my daughter in that." That's sort of, in a way-
- JRJoe Rogan
Sexualized.
- RBRussell Brand
... sexualizing-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RBRussell Brand
... the, like that child and like have it so... And also, a lot of the time like with my daughter, I don't... Like with my wife, particularly with our first child, I'm like, "Don't dress her up in little dresses and stuff because she won't be able to like run around." And I thought, "My God, I'm not, that's not that different from like the, the cliche of a male parent that wanted a son," and I didn't want a son or you know, in particular, like I love this kid. I lo- love this kid-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RBRussell Brand
... regar- you know, it doesn't mean a thing. I love having a daughter. Adore her. But like, I am aware that these things of like, dress a child this way, dress a girl this way are constructs. Further to what we were talking about again before about Michel Foucault. We got a lot done before we went live, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RBRussell Brand
Like when we were talking about Michel Foucault, what he exposes a lot is that there, and, uh, and, uh, Deleuze, Gilles Deleuze, is that a lot of things that we take for granted as being normal are actually constructs. And when I say a child's (laughs) bikini, I mean, there's no reason for any child of any sex or gender to be wearing a bloody bikini.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RBRussell Brand
So a child with tits is a terrifying (laughs) idea-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RBRussell Brand
... for, for all but a very small and terrifying percentage of the population. So like, that is an example of the external feminization of a child. Like so when there's an argument, a feminist argument of, you know, gender is a construct, I can see, oh yeah, to a point, it is. There is, there are constructs. You can't argu- like my opinion is you can't (laughs) argue with biology. Chromosomes are doing what they're doing in the physical realm.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- RBRussell Brand
(inhales deeply) But like, uh, I, you know, like being a father to a daughter has made me feel like I don't obviously, and I know you have daughters or at least eight daugh- uh, three-
- 45:00 – 1:00:00
Yeah. …
- JRJoe Rogan
if I saw someone saying something was untrue, I'd be like, "Fuck you, that's untrue." But then I realize, like, what are you... Why?
- RBRussell Brand
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, what are you doing? Like, you, this is a new thing for people. There's never been a time where people have had this instantaneous interaction with people, unfiltered, unmoderated, uh, globally.
- RBRussell Brand
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I mean, it's very strange to, to be able to do that, and to be able to go back and forth, and just, just to be able to give your comments on things, to be able to talk about things, and it's very addictive to people.
- RBRussell Brand
Yeah, that's right. And that's why I'm very cautious with it. I have to, sort of, set my life-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RBRussell Brand
... out like I'm essentially a monk in a marriage.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- RBRussell Brand
That's, basically, how I live. Get up, meditate, do yoga, do exercises, do things that are positive for you, watch the way that you're thinking. I'm interested in where, again, in w- with your own... Do you feel, uh, connected to the person you were as an adolescent? Did you notice it in your own parenting? Do you notice it in the type of choices you make? 'Cause the image I have of you from the outside is like that you have literally built something for yourself, you operate within it, and you are quite protected, and you are independent, and not forced to deal with too many negative outside influences. But in unavoidable dynamics, the unnecessary dynamics, like, uh, you know, as a father, and dealing with colleagues, and stuff like that, do you experience a lot of tension, anxiety? What, what, ha- what has happened to that guy? Do you feel that you have transcended that? 'Cause I do in my own life feel like, yeah, I've, I'm not the adolescent boy I was. I've, like, you know, I've learned from that and I still, in a very, sort of, cold psychological way, you know, when I'm doing, uh, Hibiro, that's the J- BJJ classes I'm doing over here-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RBRussell Brand
... with, uh, Professor Ricardo Wilke, he's an amazing guy, like, wha- w- when I'm, when I'm doing those classes, I have a c- a sense of fathering my child self, of like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- RBRussell Brand
... you know, 'cause I weren't doing those kind of things when I was a kid, I'm like, "It's all right, Russell, we're just in a BJJ class, just relax."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RBRussell Brand
"Don't need to panic, don't need to impress anybody, right, just do the... If you don't know, just ask."
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RBRussell Brand
You know, I've got a voice in myself. 'Cause I chat to Tony Robbins, you know, he's like another, obviously, high-achieving guy who I admire and respect a great deal. And, like, you know, when he talks, he does, like, these cold plunges, and he says, "Before I get in that plunge," like, "You're getting in that fucking plunge!" Like he does. I say, "My God, I don't talk to myself like that." I'm like, "Right, Russell, we're gonna get in the cold plunge, we're gonna rela-" You know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RBRussell Brand
Like, I have to talk to myself gently. What are you doing with that aspect of yourself? Do you still have a relationship with it? How is it, like, when you're doing all these psychedelic, cosmonautic explorations of the psyche, are you not encountering aspects of yourself that are un- uh, if- undeveloped, unaddressed?
- JRJoe Rogan
There's always gonna be unaddressed and undeveloped aspects of yourself, but I'm very, very, very different to who I was when I was a young boy. I mean, um, I'm, I'm not 100% self-actualized, I don't think anybody is, but I'm just a totally different human being. I remember it, but I remember it with humor. Like, I remember it and I laugh. I'm like, "Wow, I was so silly. I was so weird back then." And, uh, you know, with life experience and developing confidence, and understanding of who you are, and why you have those feelings, and why you were insecure, and why you had so much self-doubt. Martial arts helped me with th- uh, with that tremendously because it was the first thing that I ever did where I didn't feel like a loser.
- RBRussell Brand
Mm.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's like the first thing that I ever did where people, like, respected me and they liked me for it, you know? I'm like, "Wow, this is like some..." This was a feeling that I was completely unused to in the 14 previous years of my life. All of a sudden, there was this-... this feeling that I was unusual, I was unique, I was special.
- RBRussell Brand
Wow.
- JRJoe Rogan
And I was appreciated.
- RBRussell Brand
You were good at it quickly, yeah?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. I was, I had a natural inclination towards it.
- RBRussell Brand
Oh, amazing.
- JRJoe Rogan
And I was obsessed with it. So I was obsessed with it, so I was training every day, all day long. And then my instructor recognized it really early on, so he, uh, allowed me to train there for free. And just, I would teach classes. And teaching classes helped me a lot as well, because when you're teaching, you're breaking down techniques and you're, you know, you, when you're showing someone how to do it, you're really cementing those pathways in your own mind.
- RBRussell Brand
Yeah. Yeah.
- 1:00:00 – 1:09:18
Yeah. …
- RBRussell Brand
meat and dairy organizations and these pharmaceutical companies. The Cancer, uh, Organization similarly accepts donations-"
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RBRussell Brand
"... from these organizations." And it made me recog- like my preexisting idea that I come to it with is, you know, like that whole pyramid of these are the things you should eat.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RBRussell Brand
Bread, milk, you know, just were the things that was easy to, and cheap to produce-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, right.
- RBRussell Brand
... and that were profitable. Uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, they used to think that. They really did use to think that bread was, and grains were the most important things.
- RBRussell Brand
Do you think they felt that?
- JRJoe Rogan
I think they did.I think they thought it was, it was filling and it provided energy, and I don't think they understood w- there was no talk of gluten intolerance when we were young. It didn't exist.
- RBRussell Brand
No, there's gluten intolerance-
- JRJoe Rogan
And there was no understanding of excess carbs and how excess carbs leads to excess body weight, and it makes, uh, makes you store fat, and d- d- people didn't think about it that way. They didn't understand. There, there was... The thing about nutrition is that nutrition science is a, it's a body of knowledge that's constantly added to.
- RBRussell Brand
Yeah. And, in fact, perhaps most things are. Who knows what misapprehensions and ignorance we toil under-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RBRussell Brand
... that will be revealed to us. Do you do any, uh, I feel like I've heard you talk about ho- hormone stuff.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, yeah.
- RBRussell Brand
What-
- JRJoe Rogan
I do hormone rep- replacement therapy.
- RBRussell Brand
What type of things?
- JRJoe Rogan
Testosterone, human growth hormone.
- RBRussell Brand
Do you have to give yourself a jab in the ass?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. You g- in the thigh.
- RBRussell Brand
Thigh?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RBRussell Brand
You won't do the ass out of simple pride? (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) No, it doesn't matter. It's just-
- RBRussell Brand
"Fuck, I'm not going near that! That's for Mrs. Rogan!" (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RBRussell Brand
"I don't touch that!"
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) Your thigh's right there. It's easy to grab.
Episode duration: 3:20:02
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