Joe Rogan Experience #1300 - Michael Malice

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   Boom. Here we go.…

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:02

      Boom. Here we go.

   2. MMMichael Malice0:03

      Yes.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:03

      What's up, buddy? How are you?

   4. MMMichael Malice0:04

      I'm-

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:04

      Good to see you.

   6. MMMichael Malice0:04

      ... great. Good to be here.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:05

      We were talking before the podcast about, uh, people who get mad when I have you on, like as if you're some sort of a monster, like if you're-

   8. MMMichael Malice0:13

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:13

      ... you're a mean person. Like-

   10. MMMichael Malice0:15

       I'm a mean person.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:15

       ... we were just saying, "You're a New York Jew." You're snarky.

   12. MMMichael Malice0:18

       Yeah. Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:18

       You say funny things. But this idea that you're a Nazi or something, like, uh, people have gotten so crazy.

   14. MMMichael Malice0:24

       This... (laughs) I like that this is this icebreaker.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:26

       This is how we get started.

   16. MMMichael Malice0:26

       Hey, welcome to my show. By the way, why do people think you're a Nazi? (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:29

       'Cause someone sent me, I don't read comments on Twitter, but someone sent me something like, uh, "You're having this guy on today." And I'm like, "That is so hilarious." I go, "This guy is, uh, uh, yeah, there's some shit you say I don't agree with."

   18. MMMichael Malice0:40

       Sure.

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:40

       You're very reasonable and very intelligent.

   20. MMMichael Malice0:42

       Yeah, the last chapter of the book is me arguing with a Nazi.

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:45

       Conversation, folks. It's not bad. It's not bad to talk to people.

   22. MMMichael Malice0:50

       I talk, I, I, I th- well, it's, it's kinda for them a religious thing, right?

   23. JRJoe Rogan0:53

       It is a-

   24. MMMichael Malice0:53

       If someone is a sinner, you can't acknowledge them.

   25. JRJoe Rogan0:55

       Right.

   26. MMMichael Malice0:55

       They have to be outside of the fort.

   27. JRJoe Rogan0:57

       That's a good way to look at it. That is what it is. You know, what's interesting, it's I know all, these people don't mean to do this. This is not their plan. But if you wanted to keep Donald Trump (laughs) in office, the wa- the way the people that oppose Donald Trump are behaving is the perfect way to keep him in office.

   28. MMMichael Malice1:15

       If you tell high schoolers, "If you smoke, your parents are gonna get upset and the teachers are gonna get upset," that's the biggest com- c- commercial, right?

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:24

       Yeah. That is... Yeah.

   30. MMMichael Malice1:24

       Right? So, you tell these kids, "Hey, if you go to these websites and read these books, then your parents and the establishment and the teachers are all gonna be afraid of you." Well, sign me up. I mean, it's as simple as that. It's the same exact psychology and they're driving people to the fringe.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Yeah. This isn't even…

   1. MMMichael Malice15:00

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:00

      Yeah. This isn't even a law though, what we're talking about with the trans athletes. It's just, it's loopholes. Just some weird d- ... People don't want to be seen as transphobic in today's climate, so they're allowing preposterous things.

   3. MMMichael Malice15:14

      What was that like for you when you were talking ... I remember when you were talking to Adam on this show. That got pretty heated.

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:18

      Oh yeah, Adam Ruins Everything?

   5. MMMichael Malice15:19

      Yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:20

      Yeah. Um, it didn't get heated. We just, I mean I never got upset. Uh, we, we f- absolutely disagreed. But he had some crazy notions about competition that didn't make any sense either.

   7. MMMichael Malice15:32

      (laughs)

   8. JRJoe Rogan15:32

      Like that somehow or another the sports are designed to favor men.

   9. MMMichael Malice15:38

      What?

   10. JRJoe Rogan15:38

       Yeah, it didn't make any sense. It was a lot of it was progressive rehashing.

   11. MMMichael Malice15:42

       Okay.

   12. JRJoe Rogan15:42

       In my opinion.

   13. MMMichael Malice15:43

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan15:43

       I mean, I think it sounded good to him, but I don't know how much actual thought is put into it. What's actually interesting is like in his show he's well researched and no one's opposing these, this data that he's putting out. So he gets to say these things. It's one of the problems with like writing a blog or making a video about something, where no one goes, "Actually that's not really true. This is why that's not true. Let me explain. And this is why you're wrong. And now I'll continue." See when you can just go on these long-

   15. MMMichael Malice16:13

       Right.

   16. JRJoe Rogan16:13

       ... unchecked rants, that's where you get like flat earth believers. That's what that shit's from-

   17. MMMichael Malice16:19

       (laughs)

   18. JRJoe Rogan16:19

       ... 'cause they watch those videos-

   19. MMMichael Malice16:20

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan16:20

       ... and they go, "Oh, this makes sense."

   21. MMMichael Malice16:22

       But this is why it's so important that unorthodox voices don't get deplatformed, because even if that person is propo- putting forth things that are completely full of shit, their criticism and their perspective, they might have some truth in it. And at the very least, like when I was at Charlottesville and I talked to these people, by talking to them it makes me think through why do I believe what I believe, why is my truth the actual truth? And I'm gonna a- be challenged on my views, and I'm gonna have a better grounding for them as opposed to like you're saying, if I'm sitting here just giving a monologue and no one ever calls me out of my bullshit.

   22. JRJoe Rogan16:53

       Yeah. I think I see what you're saying, and I think what they think is you have to silence these bad voices, like the anti-vax movement. That's a big one, right?

   23. MMMichael Malice17:02

       Yes.

   24. JRJoe Rogan17:02

       Now people are saying you got to silence anti- so they're taking anti-vax videos down. They're taking anti-vax pages down. You know, I don't know how much they actually know about the science. You know, I don't ... I mean vaccines are incredible for health in terms of what they've done to protect us from diseases. They've stopped smallpox. They've stopped polio. And when you see these outbreaks of measles, that is a direct result-

   25. MMMichael Malice17:29

       Right.

   26. JRJoe Rogan17:30

       ... of people not getting vaccinated. You know, does that mean that no one's ever been hurt by vaccines? No. No, it doesn't man. There's a vaccine court. People have been injured. People have died. That's a fact. But that's I think just a part of medical procedures in human beings. I mean a lot of kids die every year from circumcision.

   27. MMMichael Malice17:48

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan17:48

       They get infections. They lose their penises. You know I mean? Yeah. It's like very common, like way more common in terms of like the numbers per year than you would ever want to hear.

   29. MMMichael Malice17:57

       Oh God. Okay.

   30. JRJoe Rogan17:59

       Yeah. People die from things. They get infections. People get, have allergic reactions to certain chemicals.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   Yeah, yeah. Well, that's…

   1. JRJoe Rogan30:00

      strange. And these people could function like this for years. Years and years. And you get the same with Adderall addicts who-

   2. MMMichael Malice30:05

      Yeah, yeah. Well, that's just speed, isn't it?

   3. JRJoe Rogan30:07

      Same thing.

   4. MMMichael Malice30:08

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan30:08

      It's very similar to meth. It's amphetamines.

   6. MMMichael Malice30:11

      Right.

   7. JRJoe Rogan30:11

      It's just a different release. Like, what Adderall is (laughs) , Duncan Trussell has a great joke. He's like, as if as a scientist took cocaine and went, "I can fix this."

   8. MMMichael Malice30:25

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan30:26

      (laughs)

   10. JVJamie Vernon30:27

       (laughs)

   11. MMMichael Malice30:27

       (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan30:27

       And it just makes people talkative and aggressive and insulting and mean and na- and it gets, it like, it highlights some of the worst aspects of people. The, the bitchy pettiness.

   13. MMMichael Malice30:40

       I love that stuff. That's my bread and butter.

   14. JRJoe Rogan30:42

       Yeah, that's your bread and butter. But it's not the way you do it.

   15. MMMichael Malice30:43

       That's my-

   16. JRJoe Rogan30:43

       You do it with a smile.

   17. MMMichael Malice30:44

       Oh, thank you. That's true.

   18. JRJoe Rogan30:45

       S- snarky.

   19. MMMichael Malice30:46

       People need to be having more fun.

   20. JRJoe Rogan30:47

       Yeah. But you are, uh, uh, your, your positions are always, even if I don't agree with them, they're rational. I see your thought process. I see where you're going.

   21. MMMichael Malice30:56

       Well, thank you. That's a huge compliment.

   22. JRJoe Rogan30:58

       That's not a, that's not a meth head.

   23. MMMichael Malice30:59

       That... Well, yeah. (laughs)

   24. JRJoe Rogan30:59

       A meth head's like, "What are you saying? The Jews are doing what? What's happening with the Nazis or what?"

   25. MMMichael Malice31:05

       The big, the big one I get to... I- I interviewed, uh, a Nazi for the book and I said to him, I go, "Look, what am, what am I supposed to do when they c- your people come at me and say, 'The only reason you care about North Korea and its concentration camps is because they're anti-Israel'?" And he goes, "What do you want me to tell you? There's idiots in every group." (laughs)

   26. JRJoe Rogan31:24

       (laughs)

   27. MMMichael Malice31:24

       So I'm like, "All right. Fair answer."

   28. JRJoe Rogan31:26

       Because they're anti-Israel. Jesus Christ.

   29. MMMichael Malice31:29

       It's like, when you think about it, the idea that Israel is with North Korea is just, like, absolutely amazing.

   30. JRJoe Rogan31:32

       Right.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Mm-hmm. …

   1. MMMichael Malice45:00

      race realism, the racists, you know.

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:02

      Mm-hmm.

   3. MMMichael Malice45:02

      Uh, the alt-right. And seeing a lot of it happening just being discussed in the press and people not knowing what they're talking about, I'm like, "All right. Someone's gotta write this book who's been there and understands it." And it might as well be-

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:13

      How do you understand it? Like what, what a- p- what about it do you under- like, the race realists and-

   5. MMMichael Malice45:17

      Because I under- ... The, one of the points I make is, this is not one scene where everyone's in agreement. These people often completely hate each other and disagree. The only thing that unites them is their opposition to progressivism.

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:29

      And this is you looking at this as a journalist when you're saying-

   7. MMMichael Malice45:32

      Sure, yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:33

      But you ... But the way you're saying it is like you're a part of these groups.

   9. MMMichael Malice45:35

      Well, I was the ... I, I, I, I'm like, "All right." I went to all the meetings. You know, I go to Charlottesville.

   10. JRJoe Rogan45:40

       Mm-hmm.

   11. MMMichael Malice45:40

       I interviewed all the types. I had ... I, uh ... You know. And it's what their points of view are, and if you're gonna engage with this kind of thinking, which is somewhat prevalent on the fringes, you have to at least understand where, where they're coming from. And being dismissive-

   12. JRJoe Rogan45:54

       I understand that, but-

   13. MMMichael Malice45:55

       ... gives the power.

   14. JRJoe Rogan45:55

       For sure. But what I wanna say is, 'cause I don't want people to misconstrue you. So someone could listen to this and inadvertently misconstr- or, uh, purposely misconstrue and think that you're a part of these groups.

   15. MMMichael Malice46:07

       Oh, no, no. So y- i- it's very clear in this book who I agree with and who I don't.

   16. JRJoe Rogan46:10

       Yes. But no, in your, in the book.

   17. MMMichael Malice46:11

       Oh, absolutely.

   18. JRJoe Rogan46:12

       Yeah, in the book. But, uh, th- the way we're d- discussing it in this conversation, you're saying the circles that you run in.

   19. MMMichael Malice46:17

       Yeah, 'cause a lot of the people who I was friends with fell down this rabbit hole.

   20. JRJoe Rogan46:20

       They fell down the rabbit hole-

   21. MMMichael Malice46:22

       Right.

   22. JRJoe Rogan46:22

       ... of, of racism?

   23. MMMichael Malice46:23

       Nazism, racism.

   24. JRJoe Rogan46:24

       Really?

   25. MMMichael Malice46:24

       Yes. And that's wha-

   26. JRJoe Rogan46:25

       Who, who that you were friends with fell down-

   27. MMMichael Malice46:27

       I'm not-

   28. JRJoe Rogan46:27

       You don't wanna say names.

   29. MMMichael Malice46:28

       I'm not naming ... Yeah. Because ... And it was very disturbing.

   30. JRJoe Rogan46:30

       But you, you knew them in real life?
5. 1:00:00 – 1:04:15

   Um- …

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

      tell me more about your book.

   2. MMMichael Malice1:00:01

      Um-

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:00:01

      Why are you, why are you breaking, um, these, these buildings? Is that you?

   4. MMMichael Malice1:00:05

      So that's a dog whistle.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:00:06

      That's a dog whistle?

   6. MMMichael Malice1:00:07

      The cover. So there's a guy named Ben Garrison, and he was a regular conservative artist, right? And he would have drawings about, like, Ben Bernanke or Hillary or whatever.

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:00:16

      Mm-hmm.

   8. MMMichael Malice1:00:17

      The Nazis took his art, replaced all of his drawings with Jews. So instead of the great wizard of debt being the Fed, it was a Jewish caricature. And they did it perfectly. And they also invented this whole backstory about him, that he was this closet Nazi. And this poor guy in Montana, if you Google him, it's like, "Nazi," and he's like, "Why is this happening to me?"

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:00:37

      Oh, my God.

   10. MMMichael Malice1:00:37

       And the Photoshop work was perfect. So eventually they calmed down and, and, you know, now he's kind of like a regular cartoonist and the story got out, but that's his artwork. So the people, this poor guy who was... Talk about a victim of Nazis. It's very rare nowadays to have a new victim of Nazis, and he's actually one of them.

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:00:54

       Well, meme culture is very strange.

   12. MMMichael Malice1:00:56

       Right, yes.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:00:56

       And, uh, those little humorous images that get chucked around from-

   14. MMMichael Malice1:01:00

       Oh, yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:01:01

       ... there's a lot of dirtbags that have really profited off of other people's meme work, too.

   16. MMMichael Malice1:01:05

       Oh, my, like, my friend Don, he's terrible.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:01:07

       I don't know who that is.

   18. MMMichael Malice1:01:07

       He works for a, he works for a meme site, yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:01:09

       Oh, those sites are-

   20. MMMichael Malice1:01:10

       Real dirtbag.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:01:10

       Those sites are bad, man. Some of them just flat out steal, and some of them steal and then they'll attribute the meme somewhere.

   22. MMMichael Malice1:01:18

       Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:01:18

       Like, they'll just say your name, and sometimes they don't even say your name, they say a name of, like, a fake account that doesn't even, ju- they just attribute it to someone. "Oh, we, we thought we got it from that person."

   24. MMMichael Malice1:01:29

       Right.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:01:29

       Because they know that it's had 100 different accounts.

   26. MMMichael Malice1:01:31

       Yes.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:01:32

       But, 'cause a bunch of people have. There's guys like you, you'll find something, you're like, "Oh, this is funny," and you put it up.

   28. MMMichael Malice1:01:37

       Yep.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:01:37

       But then there's people that they make these giant sites with all other people's work and they curate them.

   30. MMMichael Malice1:01:42

       Yep.

Episode duration: 3:01:46