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150 min read · 30,227 words- 0:00 – 15:00
Boom, boom, boom, boom.…
- JRJoe Rogan
Boom, boom, boom, boom. Boom. What's up, Ed? How are you, man?
- ECEd Calderon
Great.
- JRJoe Rogan
Thanks for coming here, man. I appreciate it.
- ECEd Calderon
Thank you for extending the invitation.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, I love your Instagram. It's very in- it's very informational and, uh, well, tell everybody what you do so people get a, a handle on this first.
- ECEd Calderon
Yes. Um, uh, I'm a non-permissive environments specialist. Basically, I teach people how to live, move, and travel in places where they probably shouldn't be traveling.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- ECEd Calderon
Um, you know, how to get out of handcuffs, how to get out of zip ties. Um, and, uh, you know, I show people how to survive in s- such environments. Uh, my background is in law enforcement in Mexico, so, you know, I spent a lot of time down there.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- ECEd Calderon
And, um, over the years, that's kind of led me into teaching myself how to survive in that environment. And, uh, apparently, after a while, that, uh, made me kind of, uh, sought after as far as teaching other people how to survive in such environments. So I've been doing that, uh, uh, for a while here in the US to military, law enforcement, civilians also.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, and you started working in law enforcement what year?
- ECEd Calderon
Uh, it's 2004, 2004, uh, north-
- JRJoe Rogan
So you started before everything got really crazy in Mexico.
- ECEd Calderon
Yes, yes. Um, so you can, you can kind of trace back where it officially kicked off, uh, by the, uh, the start of the, uh, Felipe Calderon's presidency, which is the, uh, uh, the second to last president we had. Uh, he basically said, you know, full on war against the cartels. Um, and by that time, I was kind of just, uh, getting done with my training, um, in northern Mexico as a, uh, police officer. And what I thought was gonna be, you know, community policing and stuff like that turned into a full on, you know, "Here's an assault rifle and just go climb up on that Humvee with those military guys and let's go arrest cartel members."
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, Jesus Christ. So you thought you were just getting a regular law enforcement gig?
- ECEd Calderon
Uh, yeah. I mean, (laughs) realistically there was no such sort of kind of job description. This was post 9/11. I was actually in med school and that, uh, the economy and all over the border with the, uh, tightened security and stuff like that kind of went down, you know, down the drain. And most of, uh, most of the money that I was using for med school, you know, went away. And, uh, you know, ad in the newspaper, young unmarried individuals that don't have any kids, y- you're welcome to join type thing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow. Young unmarried individuals with no kids. They want that specifically.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah, that was, uh, probably a big alarm bells sort of sound in my head, but the, uh, but the, but the, um, the, the, you know, there were, there weren't a lot of opportunities for somebody my age there that didn't have a career. And I thought it would be... You know, everybody said, "Don't go." You know? But-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. I would've said that. (laughs) If I was your friend I'd, I'd be like, "Ed."
- ECEd Calderon
But it was, it wa- it, to me it was a challenge. Uh, and a lot of people said I couldn't do it and I did it, and then it turned into something that wasn't what it, most, most people expected when they went into it. And it was a full on urban warfare type situation.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow. So post 9/11 the borders get tightened up and the economy gets very bad in the border towns? Is that what happens because people can't get through as easily?
- ECEd Calderon
Uh, it's, uh, yeah. There's heightened security so commerce isn't, uh, as freely done on both sides. Uh, border waits that used to take an hour now would take three hours or four hours depending on the time of day. So, you know, things got affected. Um, also, you know, a worldwide recession, uh, situation kind of happened. So everything kind of went down the toilet, you know. I, I have a lot of family in the border region and all, like, most of our family businesses that, uh, that we had, you know, basically kind of tanked in that, during that time.
- JRJoe Rogan
So from 9/11 to here we are 18 years later, it's been a pretty radical change.
- ECEd Calderon
Yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
Is that safe to say?
- ECEd Calderon
Yes, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Like 100% change? Like what, what if you had to, like, try to describe it?
- ECEd Calderon
So I mean, uh, basically the, uh, the, the part of the country that I had most of my experience is the Baja Sonora Juarez type region, uh, northern Mexico basically. What happened is that all the cartels started fighting for the most rich drug routes on the planet. Uh, one of them, of course, being the city of Tijuana. So the city of Tijuana is, that's the corner of Latin America. It's the most, uh, it's the most cross border, uh, on the planet. And with that, you know, there's a lot of commerce that goes on in that region. A lot of things get shipped to Tijuana and then dr- driven up into, into San Diego and a lot of people have businesses on both sides. And amongst a- among all of this, uh, movement, you know, there's a g- giant organized crime war going on and it used to be overt, like, on the streets. Uh, mid, middle of the day you would see these cartel convoys, uh, arriving at a restaurant and all the cartel guys outside with their AKs and stuff like that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Whoa.
- ECEd Calderon
This was 2004, 2005 era. Um-
- 15:00 – 30:00
Mm-hmm. …
- ECEd Calderon
kind of got to where he was, you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- ECEd Calderon
He was always helping people and he was investing in people. And these people, this is, these investments would pay later on, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
In a lot of ways it sounds like he, he benefited them, he benefited some aspects of the community.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah. I mean, uh, the, the reason why the military couldn't get him, you, you could, people took corruption, but because the, he was basically, he had a, uh, human shield around him. You know, all these towns owed, you know, schools, uh, hospitals, every, uh, instead of Christmas down there they celebrate the Day of the Kings, you know. Um, so people get presents. Mother's Day, they would all get presents, that type of thing. So, why would we want to help the military come in here and, and get El Chapo if he's-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- ECEd Calderon
... doing this type of stuff, you know? That's, and that is the same all over Mexico with some of the cartels, you know. The, they, they, uh, hearts and mind, hearts and minds type approach is what makes some of these groups, you know, long-lived.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, how much of an effort is there to eradicate the cartels? Because if you can get a guy like El Chapo who at least in terms of, like, popularity is at the top ... Is he at the top of the list?
- ECEd Calderon
As far as popularity?
- JRJoe Rogan
But at the top of the, he's at the top of the list as far as popularity, but when, as far as, like, the actual drug dealers, is he at the top of the list or are there more clever folks that hide underground?
- ECEd Calderon
Right. There's, there's, there's, yeah. There's, there's rumors of, of people above him that are still out there somewhere.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, that's what everybody, like, that's the great conspiracy is that, like-
- ECEd Calderon
Uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
... El Chapo's basically the bank manager.
- ECEd Calderon
But c- it, well, you know, there's, uh, he has a, uh, compadre. You know, a compadre is somebody that if you're the daughter, if you're the godfather of my, my kid, you're my compadre, right? So, he has a compadre out there, uh, El Mayo Zambada, um, and he is still out there, right? And the, the, uh, the extent of, of how he works and where he works is unknown.
- JRJoe Rogan
So, he's more slick?
- ECEd Calderon
Exactly.
- JRJoe Rogan
He tries to stay more low-key?
- ECEd Calderon
Well, uh, there's, you know, some people get sick with the fame probably-
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- ECEd Calderon
... and they wanna, they wanna go outside and, like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, once that mo- that TV show Narcos came on-
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... then every- well, what people did, I don't, I think there's a lot of people who did not realize how crazy the life of Pablo Escobar was.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And what really went down in Colombia.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I mean, it's crazy.
- ECEd Calderon
Uh, P- Pablo Escobar was a single, you know, he was a phenomenon in his time and age, but he was one man. Now imagine replicating that type of insanity over the span of Mexico and it's about eight or nine guys, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- 30:00 – 45:00
That's... so you know…
- ECEd Calderon
and I've seen... I, I, I, I work with law enforcement, uh, up here in the US, uh, doing classes and, and kind of, you know... They send me things like, "What do you think about this, Ed?" Um, and I've s- I've seen that lighter-colored heroin pop up in places as far off as Chicago.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's... so you know it because of the color?
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah, the color, the smell, the consistency. You can kinda tell if it's Asian or from Mexico-
- JRJoe Rogan
How... like, is it a different strain? Like...
- ECEd Calderon
It's pr- it's, uh, probably a different strain and it's also the amount of sun it gets in the region where it's con- being grown.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- ECEd Calderon
It's high, higher altitude.So it's lighter color, not as stinky. I don't know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- ECEd Calderon
Um, but I think it's a relation- that, that kind of relates to the legalization issue down there. They didn't affect them in the pockets. They just switched, uh, product.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's got to be ... It's such a strange relationship because-
- ECEd Calderon
(coughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... the reason why these drug cartels have so much power is bas- because they're selling drugs to the United States.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
So it's like you have this connection to this country that has this great big wall that it wants to build and on one side everybody's buying up all the illegal drugs and the other side everyone's killing everybody to try to make and sell these illegal drugs.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah. I mean, and, and there's a lot of holes underneath that, uh, wall.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
- ECEd Calderon
And, uh, drones.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- ECEd Calderon
Drone technology. Uh, tre-
- JRJoe Rogan
Is that wall gonna help anything?
- ECEd Calderon
Well, the wall's already been up, uh, for a few years.
- JRJoe Rogan
Part of it.
- ECEd Calderon
In, in, in, in place like Tijuana which is-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- ECEd Calderon
... like one of the richest drug rout- routes on the planet and its, the drugs are, cost the same, you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's the same?
- ECEd Calderon
It's ... Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And what about like the ocean?
- ECEd Calderon
(coughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Can't they just take a boat?
- 45:00 – 1:00:00
Yeah. …
- ECEd Calderon
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- ECEd Calderon
Um, uh, they, they, they refuse to professionalize the police forces down there. Uh, they don't put en- enough effort in that, in that regard. You know, good people that are there that I ve... I know there's some amazing guys down there doing amazing work. Uh, and they get passed up for promotion because they don't, they don't have any... they don't know anybody high level, uh, they don't work for... by their side of the gang, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
(coughs)
- ECEd Calderon
So, a lot of these people just get cast aside, you know? And, uh, you know, it's kind of hopeless in that, in that regard, you know? A lot of, a lot of the good guys, uh, when they get, uh, when they come out of the job, there's only a few options for them, right? Um, I had, I had options, but a lot of the guys that go out of a job don't, so they get recruited by the cartels, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Did you... Did anybody ever attempt to recruit you?
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah, yeah. You get offers, you know? You get offers.
- JRJoe Rogan
What kind of offers?
- ECEd Calderon
Um...
- JRJoe Rogan
(clears throat)
- ECEd Calderon
There's a, there's a famous, uh, uh, there's a famous corrido, which is like a Mexican folk s- folk song, uh, called, uh, I'm Going to Talk About My Past, right? And it's a pretty interesting song. It's about a cartel guy that used to work as a cop and, and somebody from his past approaches him and says, "You want..." "Te quieres aventar un jale?" "You wanna, you wanna do a job?" You know? That's what you would get, you know? People within the police forces is asking you, "You wanna, you wanna work on the side?"
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- ECEd Calderon
You know? That was the entry, you know? And/or, you know, "We'll pay you this much."
- JRJoe Rogan
But what... What is it like when you say no?
- ECEd Calderon
Uh, it's pretty, pretty hard. (laughs) It's, uh, it's not, it's not, it's not specifically saying no, um, but just saying, "I'm not the one to ask for this," and, and you say, you know, "I'm not the one to ask for this. You know what? I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm only in this for the money, uh, for my paycheck, and, you know, I don't wanna risk anything," so...
- JRJoe Rogan
And how do they leave that?
- ECEd Calderon
They don't... They're not, they're not happy, usually, you know? So, you get on a list sometimes, and, you know, you... something that follows you. But it's a much better thing than actually going, getting into one of these guys' pockets.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- ECEd Calderon
You know? Once you take something, you're theirs, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right, like the mob.
- ECEd Calderon
Like the mob, you know? A lot of thing-
- JRJoe Rogan
Same thing.
- ECEd Calderon
It's... A lot of these, uh, guys actually took, uh... You know? They, they have... The... A lot of these cartels down there, they kind of venerate the whole gangster era of the US.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- ECEd Calderon
It's like a thing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- ECEd Calderon
So, it's like a thing they looked up, like, look up to, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- ECEd Calderon
So, like, you see a lot of, uh, gold-plated, uh, Thompson machine guns (laughs) down there-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- 1:00:00 – 1:15:00
Hm. …
- ECEd Calderon
the death, the death cult worship is ... I think it- you could probably trace it back to the Aztec days, right? So there's definitely ... When you see all these highly gra- highly violent, bloody cartel executions and, and, and things like that, I don't know, I mean, yeah. I, I think there's some sort of genetic memory from that t- those times. Uh, it's not abnormal physically for some of these people to do that type of thing. You know, ripping somebody's heart, uh, next to a tree is a ... Like, there's videos of that stuff out there. I remember getting contacted by people that I knew on this side of the, uh, of, of the border in the US, uh, that were very curious why all these people from the Middle East were looking at all these cartel execution videos. And then a few years later, you had ISIS h- doing some high production execution videos that were-
- JRJoe Rogan
Hm.
- ECEd Calderon
... inspired by the cartels, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- ECEd Calderon
So-
- JRJoe Rogan
I- isn't that interesting that we don't think about that? We think about, "Oh my God, look at ISIS, they're cutting people's heads off." What have they learned from Mexico which is connected to us by land?
- ECEd Calderon
It's right down there.
- JRJoe Rogan
You can fucking walk there.
- ECEd Calderon
(laughs) Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like (laughs) , you don't have to fly to Afghanistan, you could walk there. It's not in Libya, it's near La Jolla.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
You, you just (laughs) ...
- ECEd Calderon
(laughs) It's ...
- JRJoe Rogan
You go to La Jolla, you see these fucking multimillion dow- dollar estates with this gorgeous view and everyone's driving Ferraris and Porsches.... 20 minutes drive, you're in Tijuana.
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah. The, the most violent city on the planet right now, so it's-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's so crazy.
- ECEd Calderon
... a real thing. Yeah. And then-
- JRJoe Rogan
When I go to San Diego, that's the f-... one of the first things I think, is how, what a juxtaposition, how crazy it is that this is the border to Mexico and it's all military. San Diego is filled with fucking SEALs and rangers and marines and bases and it's just all military down there. So it's so military-influenced and it's right next to the most violent, dangerous city on planet Earth. More than Karachi. More than Pakistan.
- ECEd Calderon
Uh, uh, we were, uh, as... we were insured by MetLife, and the MetLife agent said, s- said, uh, something along those lines, like, "You're better off going to Afghanistan or Iraq than, you know, working here, basically, numbers-wise." And I was like, "Uh, thank you for that," you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- ECEd Calderon
Uh, that felt, uh, that felt like a good pat on the back. Uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
But it seems like they're getting cartel, on cartel crime-
- ECEd Calderon
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... confused with regular person crime.
- ECEd Calderon
So th- but that's how it always starts, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- ECEd Calderon
It's, uh... usually starts off... and again, this goes back to everything's cyclical down there, that s-... that snake eating its tail.
- JRJoe Rogan
(coughs)
- ECEd Calderon
So you get cartel on cartel crime, and then they finish each other off and then they realize that, "Well now, now what do we do?" So they start abducting people, extortion, d- for-
- JRJoe Rogan
Just for money? Just-
- 1:15:00 – 1:15:11
Section 6
- ECEd Calderon
Uh, they're integrated into the culture. All of a sudden now, we have Haitians in the culture, you know. No, no problem at all. But these guys came in and they were really kind of disruptive in that way, right? So, you know.
Episode duration: 1:43:21
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