Joe Rogan Experience #1315 - Bob Lazar & Jeremy Corbell

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   ... two, one, boom.…

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      ... two, one, boom. (slaps table) And we're live. (slaps table) First of all, cheers, gentlemen. Let's have a little toast, relax. Bob, thank you very much for doing this. I really appreciate it. I understand that you've told this story many, many times. You've been grilled many, many times, and it's very stressful for you, so I v- I really, really appreciate your time. For people who don't know the story, um, there is a documentary. Um, Jeremy Corbell has a documentary out right now. It's called Bob Lazar: Area 51 and UFOs.

   2. BLBob Lazar0:30

      A- and Flying Saucers.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:32

      And Flying Saucers. Not-

   4. BLBob Lazar0:33

      Bob Lazar: Area 51 and Flying Saucers.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:34

      Okay.

   6. BLBob Lazar0:35

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:35

      Um, I first heard your story decades ago. I've, uh, I told you last night when we went out to dinner, I've seen pretty much every interview you've ever given. I've followed the story incredibly closely.

   8. BLBob Lazar0:46

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:47

      But for people who don't know the story, let's give them the bullet points. You used to work at Area 51, and Area 51 ... Oh, God, you, you went, like, "Huh?"

   10. BLBob Lazar1:00

       Well, you know, we wanna-

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:00

       Careful.

   12. BLBob Lazar1:00

       ... be accurate.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:01

       Okay.

   14. BLBob Lazar1:01

       Area S-4.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:03

       S-4, okay.

   16. BLBob Lazar1:03

       It's about 15 miles south of Area 51.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:06

       Okay.

   18. BLBob Lazar1:07

       But-

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:07

       Um, you worked in, what would you, how would you describe it? A-

   20. BLBob Lazar1:13

       I, I, I guess within the Area 51 compound. You can call that a subset of Area 51.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:20

       And you got that job, you, before that you were working ...

   22. BLBob Lazar1:24

       Before that, I had worked at Los Alamos-

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:26

       Right.

   24. BLBob Lazar1:26

       ... National Labs in New Mexico.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:27

       And you were involved in what kind of work?

   26. BLBob Lazar1:30

       Nuclear weapon development, physics. I mean, that's, they, they do everything there.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:35

       So, how do they approach you to say, "Hey, Bob, why don't you come on out to the Nevada desert?"

   28. BLBob Lazar1:42

       Well, the way this went down was, um, at that time, it was 1982. I, um, I put, uh, a jet engine in my, my Honda, and Los Alamos put it on the front page of the paper. Said, you know, uh, Los Alamos man, physicist at the lab, you know, built this 200-mile-an-hour, you know, Honda Jet Car, that I, I drove to work every day.

   29. JRJoe Rogan2:12

       (laughs)

   30. BLBob Lazar2:12

       So, uh, so I was, I was known in Los Alamos as the guy with the weird car and that, you know, you could hear it from, you know, a mile away. Anyway, the day that came out on the front page of the paper was the day Edward Teller, the father of the hydrogen bomb, was giving a lecture down there at the lab. And we didn't have much going on that day in our group, and I asked if I could go down there. And, um, I went down there early, and Ed Teller was outside leaning on a brick wall there and reading the front page of the paper. Now, this is a guy out of history, so I introduced myself, "Hey, I'm the guy you're reading about there." And we talked for a little while and it was cool. Uh, you know, fast-forward to years later. I had moved out to Las Vegas, and had, you know, left Los Alamos and, you know, went on to other things, and I wanted to get back into the scientific community. You know, I left to start other businesses and, and that sort of thing. So, I sent resumes out, and one of them went out to Ed Teller, and referenced our meeting, you know, back in, back in the, the day. And, uh, anyway, he remembered me, and gave me a reference, somebody to contact at EG&G. And that's pretty much how it started.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   No, they were all…

   1. JRJoe Rogan15:00

      were they all exactly the same?

   2. BLBob Lazar15:02

      No, they were all different.

   3. JRJoe Rogan15:03

      Different shapes?

   4. BLBob Lazar15:04

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan15:05

      But they were all from somewhere else?

   6. BLBob Lazar15:07

      Yeah, absolutely.

   7. JRJoe Rogan15:09

      Now, did anyone make any attempt to explain or to, to tell you where they came from?

   8. BLBob Lazar15:17

      No, no. No one is the least bit interested in letting everybody know all the facts. They want to give you the minimum information that's necessary to complete your task. So you're not getting the story of where they came from. You're not getting the story of what, how much progress other people are making. You just focus on the small component.

   9. JRJoe Rogan15:36

      But they gave you some indication that they'd been working on these for a while?

   10. BLBob Lazar15:40

       Yeah.

   11. JRJoe Rogan15:41

       When do you think they, uh, acquired these?

   12. BLBob Lazar15:45

       I really couldn't say. I think they've been around for a while.

   13. JRJoe Rogan15:50

       So they bring you into this room. You see this reactor working. You, you realize this is nothing that, as far as like the scientific community at, at current time, has the ability to create. What is-

   14. BLBob Lazar16:05

       We still don't.

   15. JRJoe Rogan16:06

       What is your life like from that moment on? Is that where everything changes? 'Cause you, do you r- I mean, I, I would imagine the moment you actually make contact with something that's extraterrestrial, whether it's an object or a being, something where you can actual- absolutely be certain it's not from here, your whole paradigm, the whole world you live in, is now a different place.

   16. BLBob Lazar16:28

       Well, this is the only time it became exciting, you know. The rest of the time, the, it was really (laughs) an, an ominous feeling being at work. But it, at that time, it was exciting. I mean, this was, now I knew we were on the absolute beyon- Actually beyond the cutting edge of science, and I was, I was so absolutely excited to be there every single time I was. Um, you know, it, w- with, this was a fantastic opportunity, and, um ... However, (laughs) in, in short order it began to concern me, "We really have no idea what we're talking about." And the excitement kind of turned to dread at some point because the amount of power we're dealing with is astronomical. I mean, to affect gravity to produce the effects like this equipment does takes huge amounts of power. And I've given the, um, example before of, you know, taking a small portable nuclear reactor and, you know, putting it back into Victorian times, you know, with the scientists of the time, and just dropping it in a room. And they come and look at it and see that it's producing power and wonder how it works, so they start taking it apart. And as soon as they get some of the shielding off, the people are gonna drop dead because of the radiation inside. Now, the people have no idea that even, radiation even exists back then. But anybody that comes in to check on them will also drop dead. And, you know, there's no reason that that exact scenario couldn't happen with what we're dealing with. We have no idea how the physics operate within this thing. The power levels are, are, like I said, astronomical. Like, it's incredibly dangerous to tinker with something like that.... and (laughs) you know, in some respects, we were guinea pigs, just trying to find out how to make this thing.

   17. JRJoe Rogan18:26

       So they had had a series, y- y- as far as you surmised, they had a series of different scientists try to back engineer this thing, try to figure out what this thing was, and they would bring in new people and like, "Let's throw Bob at it."

   18. BLBob Lazar18:38

       Yeah. Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan18:39

       And they know-

   20. BLBob Lazar18:40

       And I don't- I don't know how many, but I knew there was certainly one before me, and I knew he died during the analysis of the, or the, uh, reactor itself.

   21. JRJoe Rogan18:49

       And you don't know how many have worked on it and no one gave any indication-

   22. BLBob Lazar18:55

       This could've been there for 50 years. It could've been there for five years. I really don't know.

   23. JRJoe Rogan18:59

       When they're giving you instructions, what are they saying? Like, whe- when they're giving you direction, they're showing you all this stuff, like, what, what are, what are they saying? What specifically, what are they asking of you?

   24. BLBob Lazar19:08

       Well, essentially what they ask is, is what I said. All- we are just to gather as much information as possible, find out how it operates, and see if we can duplicate it, so I was really-

   25. JRJoe Rogan19:18

       But they never told you where it was from. They never let you ask questions about where it's from.

   26. BLBob Lazar19:22

       Well, if the information I read in the briefings was accurate ... Now, what I do have to say is, the information that pertained directly to the reactor was accurate. What I read did, I mean, did jive with reality, um ...

   27. JRJoe Rogan19:41

       In terms of how?

   28. BLBob Lazar19:43

       In terms of how it was made, how, what we saw, how it operated, the materials, how it, you know, turned on, and what was discovered, uh, uh, discovered about it. (laughs) I'm sorry. The migraine is really making it hard for me to think here.

   29. JRJoe Rogan19:57

       Sorry. No.

   30. BLBob Lazar19:58

       Um-
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   It's, um, it's a…

   1. JRJoe Rogan30:00

      and what are you thinking when you're inside of it? Like, what are you seeing?

   2. BLBob Lazar30:04

      It's, um, it's a very ominous feeling because it's, there are no sh- uh, first of all, everything is one color. It's like a dark pewter color and there are no right angles anywhere. It's as if somebody took, uh, I've said this before, somebody took a, a model out of, and fashioned it out of wax, and then heated it just for a short time so everything melted. Everything looks like it's fused together. Everything has a radius of curvature where two, uh, items meet. It's, uh, it's a really weird looking thing. But, um...... uh, there was almost nothing (laughs) other than a small foldable hatchway that, um, that looked recognizable. Everything was, uh, was really unworldly, to pick a ni- (laughs) a way to describe it.

   3. JRJoe Rogan30:57

      So you, you get inside this thing and it's designed for something that's much smaller than a human being.

   4. BLBob Lazar31:02

      Yeah, you can't really stand up til you get to the very center of it, but-

   5. JRJoe Rogan31:05

      And how tall are you?

   6. BLBob Lazar31:06

      I'm 5'10".

   7. JRJoe Rogan31:07

      And what do you think this was designed for?

   8. BLBob Lazar31:10

      I'd say something close to half my height.

   9. JRJoe Rogan31:12

      Wow, so these little 3-foot-tall-ish creatures.

   10. BLBob Lazar31:17

       Yeah, and they, the, the seats were small too. I mean, obviously it was made, you know, for something, something small. But there was no ... like there's, there's nothing else in there. There's just seats, the reactor, and some of the sub-components. There's no, there's no control panels, there's no bathroom, there's no, no decorative, uh, components or artwork or anything that you would recognize, or trim. I mean, it's just a very bare-bones thing, and-

   11. JRJoe Rogan31:44

       You're not seeing any screens?

   12. BLBob Lazar31:47

       Well, there are archways around it, uh, that are part of the super structure, and that one of the archways can become transparent. When I was in there, there was another group working on one of the archways, and you could call that a screen, more or less.

   13. JRJoe Rogan32:05

       So through that archway, it would be, it would maintain the solidity, the, the solid (knocks metal desk) whatever metal it was?

   14. BLBob Lazar32:13

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan32:13

       But you could see through it?

   16. BLBob Lazar32:14

       Yeah, it just became transparent, yeah. I saw that happen once or twice before I left.

   17. JRJoe Rogan32:19

       Did you ask any questions about what the fuck that was?

   18. BLBob Lazar32:21

       No, there was no asking questions, no.

   19. JRJoe Rogan32:22

       There was no asking questions. But when you watch something become transparent, and you realize it's still there but you can now see through it ...

   20. BLBob Lazar32:29

       Yeah, I mean, uh, now, that's not that impressive. We do have some liquid crystal materials that are like that, you know, they have a-

   21. JRJoe Rogan32:36

       I've never seen that in bathrooms.

   22. BLBob Lazar32:37

       ... smart glass. Yeah, they call it smart glass.

   23. JRJoe Rogan32:39

       (clears throat)

   24. BLBob Lazar32:39

       So this is just, uh, and I don't know if the craft is made of, you know, an advanced metal or a ceramic. It was cold to the touch, so, um, you know, I would lean more towards-

   25. JRJoe Rogan32:49

       And again-

   26. BLBob Lazar32:49

       ... a metal.

   27. JRJoe Rogan32:50

       ... you're not allowed to ask questions.

   28. BLBob Lazar32:52

       No, the only, they, they work on the buddy system, so I can only exchange ideas and talk to Barry. Now, this really interferes with science because science is based on free discussion, and ideally you get a bunch of guys together, exchange ideas, work on problems, and that's how things move forward. But they're so over the top concerned about security, they split everything off and everybody becomes stagnant. It, it, it, it, it just destroys any of the progress you can make, or at least makes it go so slow, um, they, I think they wind up shooting themselves in the foot.

   29. JRJoe Rogan33:29

       Which is probably why they're q- arrived at this bottleneck that they need to get this madman with a jet-powered Honda-

   30. BLBob Lazar33:37

       (laughs)
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   Somehow or another, so…

   1. BLBob Lazar45:00

      it bends radio waves, it's, um ... It, it shouldn't be possible to communicate with a craft that has an envelope around it that's distorting all forms of energy. But they were apparently in contact with it.

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:15

      Somehow or another, so through some unexplained way-

   3. BLBob Lazar45:18

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:18

      ... that they didn't bother explaining to you.

   5. BLBob Lazar45:20

      Mm-hmm.

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:21

      So this thing gets up, it just does some very simple maneuvers, left, right, left, right, goes down. Um, and did they discuss this with you? I mean, they said they wanted you to see it.

   7. BLBob Lazar45:30

      No, they, they just wanted ... No, they, (laughs) they, they didn't discuss anything with me. It set, it sat down, we looked around for a bit and Barry said, "Let's go back." We went back in the lab. All we got to do was see it. Um, you know, fast-forward, um, to some months later, uh, I did have the test flight schedule of the craft. Now they had times they had designated high performance tests. This obviously wasn't one that, uh, was a high performance test. The, uh, high performance test went, goes above the mountain range and they do much more radical moves with the thing. Look, this is a prized item and they're not doing anything like taking it out of the atmosphere or flying around other countries or anything like that.

   8. JRJoe Rogan46:13

      Right.

   9. BLBob Lazar46:14

      They just, they just play with this thing right over the test site. Um, but they were doing some radical moves with it. And since I had the test flight schedule, statistically, the amount of traffic in the surrounding areas on the highway was lowest on Wednesdays. And that's why Deni- Denis told us that, uh, all the test flights occurred only on Wednesdays, because it'd be the least chance that anyone would see what's going on.

   10. JRJoe Rogan46:41

       And this was before the, the government had expanded the forbidden territory around Area 51 and Papoose Lake and all that stuff, right?

   11. BLBob Lazar46:51

       Yeah, I think that occurred after my story came out. Then people started going up on the mountaintops and trying to look down into there and they kinda freaked out, and then did the land grab and pushed everybody back. But yeah, that i- ... I think all that occurred long after, um, sc- uh, that I came out.

   12. JRJoe Rogan47:10

       So you're working there, and while you're working there you're under this crazy schedule. Uh, forgive me for explaining your story. But you, uh, would get these phone calls, you would have to go to the, to the airport at 11:00 PM, and your wife started thinking that you were having an affair.

   13. BLBob Lazar47:31

       Yeah, apparently so. Um, now I did give my permission to have, you know, as, as part of the, you know, security clearance process, um, I g- I gave wr- written permission to have the phones monitored and things of that sort, so they weren't doing any covert stuff. They, um ... You know, with any Qq clearance or which is civilian top secret clearance, or military top secret clearance, they go talk to friends in, you know, place- places you've been, make sure you're not connected to foreign countries. But, you know, monitoring your phone is nothing unusual. However, they insisted that, you know, you don't even talk to your loved one, to your partner, to your wife, whatever, about what's going on. So she was essentially in the dark and didn't know the phone was being monitored. Well, part of the security clearance is that not only do you not have any connections to foreign countries and aren't a maniac, but you have to have a stable home life too. Uh, well she started having an affair with a flight instructor. Now they were monitoring this on the phone and they knew it and I didn't. So they stopped me coming in, and their attitude at the time was, um, "We need to see how this is gonna play out and if Lazar is gonna get a little weird or anything. So let's just..."... you know, hold him off from coming in and, uh, you know, see what happens.

   14. JRJoe Rogan48:58

       And they explained this to you, what was happening?

   15. BLBob Lazar49:00

       (laughs) Well, after the fact, yeah, 'cause time kinda went on and there were guys that were following me around. And I started getting a little concerned going, "Well, chit, are they booting me out of the project?" And if so, they're not just gonna let me hang out at home and go get a new job knowing what I know. So as time went on, I started getting a little concerned and I took my closest friends and just kinda got together and said, "Hey, remember that job I told you about? This is what's going on." And, uh, "Like, you don't need to take my word for it. Uh, Wednesday night we need to all go out here, I wanna show you what's going on." So I took everybody and we went out to, um ... Remember, since I had the test flight scheduled, and went outside the base, um, out into the desert and so everybody could see, you know, one of the high-performance tests. And, uh, you know, it left quite an imprint on everybody, so they knew I wasn't crazy.

   16. JRJoe Rogan50:01

       And there's videos of these tests, right?

   17. BLBob Lazar50:03

       Yeah, but remember, this is in the -- it's in, in the dark in the '80s with a big monster-sized camcorder and you got-

   18. JRJoe Rogan50:09

       Mm-hmm.

   19. BLBob Lazar50:09

       ... you know, a bright light jumping around, but, uh, yeah, I mean, we did video of it but there's no ... By today's standards it's-

   20. JRJoe Rogan50:17

       But is your video-

   21. BLBob Lazar50:18

       ... you know, it's garbage.

   22. JRJoe Rogan50:18

       ... specifically available? The video that you took?

   23. BLBob Lazar50:21

       Yeah, well, George Knapp has it. It's-

   24. JRJoe Rogan50:23

       Is it online?

   25. BLBob Lazar50:23

       I give it to him.

   26. JRJoe Rogan50:24

       Do you know-

   27. BLBob Lazar50:24

       I have no idea.

   28. JRJoe Rogan50:25

       Jeremy?

   29. JCJeremy Corbell50:26

       Yeah, I show clips of it in my film. It's-

   30. JRJoe Rogan50:27

       Right.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:15:00

   What are you talking…

   1. JCJeremy Corbell1:00:00

      "Oh, there's a glitch in the radar." Y- that's a data-poor perspective. You just don't know yet what's really going on. Commander Fravor, I was able to get the interview with him to talk with him way before it became public. I r- I got that from him. He saw it, other pilots saw it. This is a big thing that's going on right now. They, they had more sightings on the East Coast recently, cubes with, with spherical ores. These are not aerodynamic and these are the people we trust to defend us on 9/11. Commander Fravor protected Los Angeles on 9/11. So we trust them, but they're not trained observers. Radar, individuals see these things, and the big, the big one, just to throw down so we can consider a story a little differently, there's more depth to it, the big one is the United States government has admitted that they have been continuously studying the UFO phenomenon. That program was called AATIP, Advanced Aero s... or sorry, uh, was called AAWSAP. That, that's the mother program. George Knapp got that out. They, they, they announced to The New York Times about AATIP, but AAWSAP, these acronyms, AAWSAP, Advanced Aerospace Weapon Systems Applications program, who cares?... that was the mother program. So they've admitted, "We didn't stop studying UFOs in 1969 with Project Blue Book. We don't think it's crazy. We're actually want to reverse engineer the technology." That's why on your other show, you said, "What's this AAV thing? It's like they're making up another UFO name." Well, hold on, there's a reason. Because in the documents, the D- the DIA documents that George Knapp released, that everybody said was fake till now they know is real, they call them AAVs, which is advanced aerospace vehicles. People are getting the acronyms wrong. So the, the reason for the terminology change is so that we can mimic what we're reading in the DIA documents. People can look for that now. So they changed the names to get people away from UFO or UAP, even like Hillary Clinton said on air, right? So-

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:01:49

      What are you talking about? Hillary Clinton said on air?

   3. JCJeremy Corbell1:01:51

      Hillary Clinton informed the public on Jimmy Kimmel, "Oh, Jimmy, we don't call them UFOs anymore. We call them UAPs, unidentified aerial phenomenon." Right? So she kind of was giving... The cl- the Clintons are very into the UFO topic. Senator Reid, you know, he, he's done a lot for the, for the subject, the study of it, right? So she informed the public so they could look for the right term. So these terms are important because the DIA in those documents, they've been calling them AAVs for quite some time now.

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:02:21

      And they changed the name to anomalous.

   5. JCJeremy Corbell1:02:24

      No, uh, that, that's kind of a misnomer.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:02:26

      Advanced... No?

   7. JCJeremy Corbell1:02:27

      So, it... They always mess around with things but it's actually advanced aerospace-

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:02:31

      Right. But when they're describing it in the news, they were calling it anomalous aerospace vehicle.

   9. JCJeremy Corbell1:02:35

      Totally, totally. And that's cool. They were also saying anomalous aerospace threats, AAT, right?

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:02:41

       Ah.

   11. JCJeremy Corbell1:02:41

       Because they want the sense of a threat.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:02:43

       Right.

   13. JCJeremy Corbell1:02:43

       So, so my point is, all of... If people don't know this now and they think this stuff is, is fantasy, this, this part of it, that we're studying it, that we take it seriously, we're spending money on it, and that we're getting great data, from, from visual pilots to, to radar, that's why we know it's aerospace. They dropped from 80,000 feet. But guess what? That's the top scope of the SPY-1 radar, is 80,000 feet. So the radar system they were using, it was coming from above that. So my point is this. If you don't understand that this is happening, you're just behind the curve because you don't have the information because of the stigma that you're talking about. I saw you get totally upset with the UFO topic. I met you first when you were totally upset with the UFO topic. It's the people.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:03:25

       When?

   15. JCJeremy Corbell1:03:26

       When, when you're doing your...

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:03:27

       Hold this microphone up to his face.

   17. JCJeremy Corbell1:03:28

       I'm sorry, man. When you're, when you're doing your show, you know, the Joe Rogan Questions Everything.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:03:32

       Mm-hmm.

   19. JCJeremy Corbell1:03:33

       I could see how, how frustrating it is. Trust me, I have been frustrated to hell. Luckily, my mentor is George Knapp and he's taught me the pitball- pitfalls, uh, as I went through it. My whole point in this rant right here is just that we have to now look at Bob's story but knowing the facts, not someone saying it's a bird, it's a plane, it's a glitch. They're not. And so if you don't know that, you just don't have the information yet.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:03:57

       And not just that, knowing the facts as we know them in 2019, not in 1988.

   21. JCJeremy Corbell1:04:02

       Absolutely.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:04:03

       Right. Yeah.

   23. JCJeremy Corbell1:04:03

       And so what has he said that has come true? He's totally unimpressed with it. Right? What has he said that's come true? So I was like, "Bob, they've announced gravity as a wave. You were right, man. You're vindicated." And he looks at me and he's like, "Well, if you think about it, Jeremy, I had like a 50-50 chance." He was not very impressed. Right?

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:04:22

       When did they announce gravity as a wave?

   25. JCJeremy Corbell1:04:25

       So they detected, in a sense, they detected gravity waves and that was...

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:04:28

       And who are... Who is they?

   27. JCJeremy Corbell1:04:30

       You might know more. There was two black holes that were colliding and that's how they were able to detect...

   28. BLBob Lazar1:04:34

       Yeah. Somebody built... I don't know which group it was or what part of the government. Um...

   29. JCJeremy Corbell1:04:39

       That's what Google's for.

   30. BLBob Lazar1:04:40

       Yeah.
6. 1:15:00 – 1:19:05

   Oh, you mean the…

   1. JCJeremy Corbell1:15:00

      they said it on that first day.

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:15:01

      Oh, you mean the Roswell Daily Record?

   3. JCJeremy Corbell1:15:02

      Yeah, yeah, the one you told me.

   4. BLBob Lazar1:15:03

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:15:03

      Yeah, I have a cover ... Wh- what is this here, Jamey?

   6. BLBob Lazar1:15:06

      This is the document, but I, I had to do some digging to find it.

   7. JCJeremy Corbell1:15:08

      Yes, it's just kind of ... Yeah, so this is where they meet at EG&G and this is Admiral Wilson. And there's a lot more coming out. And I wanna be clear, George didn't put this out. He didn't leak this out to anybody. This is ... I can tell you how I-

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:15:21

      Who recorded this, this conversation?

   9. JCJeremy Corbell1:15:22

      So this was an employee of, at the time, Robert Bigelow.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:15:26

       And this is in 2002?

   11. JCJeremy Corbell1:15:27

       Right. Do you remember when he had that government contract called AAWSAP, the world all knows about now? And he had NIDS that studied the ranch? So that $22 million everybody is saying it was for AATIP, um, Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. The $22 million was for AAWSAP that was pushed through through Congress, three congressmen, right? An astronaut. It was pushed through and that's what that $22 million ... By the way, they spend more money on Viagra every year than they do studying UFOs if it was just this program, which I think is funny, 'cause they play with each other.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:15:57

       They probably make a lot more money from Viagra than doing it from UFOs too.

   13. JCJeremy Corbell1:15:59

       They probably do. Well, you never know how it seeds into a population. But anyway, uh, this program, uh, this is what was the mother program. So it, it got the $22 million. And really, it was to study Skinwalker Ranch, oddly enough. That $22 million all was inspired by the phenomenon they were seeing at Skinwalker Ranch, because the scientists, they're seeing vehicles come through, like, a space in the sky.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:16:22

       Yeah, we went there. We went there with Duncan.

   15. BLBob Lazar1:16:24

       Right. Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:16:25

       We, we interviewed m- a bunch of people that seemed full of shit, but a couple that didn't.

   17. JCJeremy Corbell1:16:29

       But there's-

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:16:30

       It was very, very interesting.

   19. JCJeremy Corbell1:16:31

       Totally. And it, it ... There's ... But in ... If you look, I spent a lot of time in the area. I'm not talking about those stories. I'm saying there were scientists hired by the government, right, through Bigelow to study the ranch, because they thought it was important and, you know, whatever, whatever. The point is that $22 million was to study that. Then we have AATIP, which is like an auxiliary kind of program of military sightings, like Commander Fravors and that sort of thing. This document is just one of those things that has now come forward that, um ... Through the Bigelow studies, it was government funded w- and then it was personally funded and then government funded. Um, it's just one of those things that kind of shakes you, because you got this military guy who can't get access because of the private industry that's holding these non-terrestrial materials, that they can't study it. So that's th- the claim right now. Give it some time, let people dig more into this. It's fascinating, man.

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:17:24

       So you are ... Essentially, you're, you're, you're kicked out, right? You're, you're out of the, this program, you can't work with these crafts anymore and do they give you any threats? Do they tell you what you have to do from here on out?

   21. BLBob Lazar1:17:43

       Yeah. Well, I mean, the, the way it ended was, um, I told George Knapp all this stuff and, um, you know, he said, "Well, let's just get it on tape. Should something happen, at least we have a record of it." And, um, I don't remember what the impetus was, but, um, at some point George wanted to air it and he said, you know, "You make the call on it and look, if at any point you change your mind, uh, we won't air it." And it came down to the day where George wants to put it on the five o'clock news. He said, "Th- this is important stuff. People have to know about it." And I thought it was too. I thought, "It's kind of a crime. I know you gotta keep the technology secret, but you can't not tell everybody that this stuff is going on, that we have, you know, actual hardware from another civilization." It's a big fucking deal, you know? Probably the biggest one there ever was. And, um, George said, you know, "Today's the day we gotta put it on the news," or so- something to that effect. And when it came right down to the time to air it, I changed my mind and I said, "We're not doing it." And that's what turned into the famous wrestling match between me and George trying to get the tape, but he won because he was-

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:18:58

       (laughs)

   23. BLBob Lazar1:18:58

       ... a bigger guy.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:19:00

       So you actually physically wrestled?

   25. BLBob Lazar1:19:01

       Well, I think it was more of a pulling match. We were ... I don't think we ever hit the ground.

Episode duration: 2:14:44