Joe Rogan Experience #1315 - Bob Lazar & Jeremy Corbell

1. 0:00 – 5:28

   Setting the stage: Lazar’s S-4 claim and how he was recruited

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      ... two, one, boom. (slaps table) And we're live. (slaps table) First of all, cheers, gentlemen. Let's have a little toast, relax. Bob, thank you very much for doing this. I really appreciate it. I understand that you've told this story many, many times. You've been grilled many, many times, and it's very stressful for you, so I v- I really, really appreciate your time. For people who don't know the story, um, there is a documentary. Um, Jeremy Corbell has a documentary out right now. It's called Bob Lazar: Area 51 and UFOs.

   2. BLBob Lazar0:30

      A- and Flying Saucers.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:32

      And Flying Saucers. Not-

   4. BLBob Lazar0:33

      Bob Lazar: Area 51 and Flying Saucers.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:34

      Okay.

   6. BLBob Lazar0:35

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:35

      Um, I first heard your story decades ago. I've, uh, I told you last night when we went out to dinner, I've seen pretty much every interview you've ever given. I've followed the story incredibly closely.

   8. BLBob Lazar0:46

      Mm-hmm.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:47

      But for people who don't know the story, let's give them the bullet points. You used to work at Area 51, and Area 51 ... Oh, God, you, you went, like, "Huh?"

   10. BLBob Lazar1:00

       Well, you know, we wanna-

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:00

       Careful.

   12. BLBob Lazar1:00

       ... be accurate.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:01

       Okay.

   14. BLBob Lazar1:01

       Area S-4.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:03

       S-4, okay.

   16. BLBob Lazar1:03

       It's about 15 miles south of Area 51.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:06

       Okay.

   18. BLBob Lazar1:07

       But-

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:07

       Um, you worked in, what would you, how would you describe it? A-

   20. BLBob Lazar1:13

       I, I, I guess within the Area 51 compound. You can call that a subset of Area 51.

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:20

       And you got that job, you, before that you were working ...

   22. BLBob Lazar1:24

       Before that, I had worked at Los Alamos-

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:26

       Right.

   24. BLBob Lazar1:26

       ... National Labs in New Mexico.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:27

       And you were involved in what kind of work?

   26. BLBob Lazar1:30

       Nuclear weapon development, physics. I mean, that's, they, they do everything there.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:35

       So, how do they approach you to say, "Hey, Bob, why don't you come on out to the Nevada desert?"

   28. BLBob Lazar1:42

       Well, the way this went down was, um, at that time, it was 1982. I, um, I put, uh, a jet engine in my, my Honda, and Los Alamos put it on the front page of the paper. Said, you know, uh, Los Alamos man, physicist at the lab, you know, built this 200-mile-an-hour, you know, Honda Jet Car, that I, I drove to work every day.

   29. JRJoe Rogan2:12

       (laughs)

   30. BLBob Lazar2:12

       So, uh, so I was, I was known in Los Alamos as the guy with the weird car and that, you know, you could hear it from, you know, a mile away. Anyway, the day that came out on the front page of the paper was the day Edward Teller, the father of the hydrogen bomb, was giving a lecture down there at the lab. And we didn't have much going on that day in our group, and I asked if I could go down there. And, um, I went down there early, and Ed Teller was outside leaning on a brick wall there and reading the front page of the paper. Now, this is a guy out of history, so I introduced myself, "Hey, I'm the guy you're reading about there." And we talked for a little while and it was cool. Uh, you know, fast-forward to years later. I had moved out to Las Vegas, and had, you know, left Los Alamos and, you know, went on to other things, and I wanted to get back into the scientific community. You know, I left to start other businesses and, and that sort of thing. So, I sent resumes out, and one of them went out to Ed Teller, and referenced our meeting, you know, back in, back in the, the day. And, uh, anyway, he remembered me, and gave me a reference, somebody to contact at EG&G. And that's pretty much how it started.
2. 5:28 – 6:45

   First days on the job: Janet flights, security paperwork, and first red flags

   1. JRJoe Rogan5:28

      So, take me back to first day on the job. You accept the job. They take you out there.

   2. BLBob Lazar5:35

      Yeah. It's, um ... The first day, really, I didn't really get to see a whole lot. The first day was essentially just paperwork. That's when I flew into Area 51 proper, and I left, uh, McCarran Airport and flew what they call the Janet flights. Just, um, you know, a passenger plane from Las Vegas to Area 51. And it was really just going through a mountain of paperwork that day, uh, from security clearances to, um-... god, there was, it, it was, like, two or three hours of just solid paperwork. And that was, that was really an uneventful first day.

   3. JRJoe Rogan6:16

      When did things get weird? When did you realize, like at what point in time did you say, "Hey, this is not normal work." Like, "This doesn't even seem like it's from this planet."

   4. BLBob Lazar6:33

      That, I can't tell you what day that occurred on because so much time has gone by, the days have kinda fused-

   5. JRJoe Rogan6:39

      Yeah.

   6. BLBob Lazar6:39

      ... into one, and I can't-

   7. JRJoe Rogan6:40

      Was it a slow-

   8. BLBob Lazar6:40

      ... separate the days.

   9. JRJoe Rogan6:41

      Was it a slow burn or was there a, a moment of recognition?

3. 6:45 – 7:58

   First sighting inside the hangar: the saucer with an American flag sticker

   1. BLBob Lazar6:45

      Well, there, the, the first inkling I had was when I, I came in. Normal ... There's this facility that is at S4. It's in the side of a mountain. And normally, we had pulled in with the bus and gone around the front through a normal double door. This time that I went in, there were hangar doors open. I went in through the hangar door, and in the hangar door was the disc, the flying saucer that I worked on. I saw it sitting there, and we walked by it. It had a little American flag stuck on the side, and I thought, "Oh my God. This finally explains all the flying saucer stories. This is just an advanced fighter, and it, this is fucking hilarious."

   2. JRJoe Rogan7:28

      Right.

   3. BLBob Lazar7:28

      So I went by, I slid my hand alongside it. I got reprimanded immediately for touching the thing. And, uh, there was a guy, an armed guard that followed us in and just said, "Keep your eyes at, forward and your hands at your side, and just walk in the door." So that was the first time I had seen anything that was weird. It was some time later that I was introduced to my, um, my lab partner, Barry. And we had some of the sub-components of the craft, uh, in the lab.

4. 7:58 – 12:28

   The reactor demonstration: “gravity” you can feel and briefings about reverse-engineering

   1. BLBob Lazar7:58

      And Barry was very anxious to get a new lab partner, so he was very talkative and couldn't wait to show me different things. And it was in the demonstration of the reactor working where it caught my attention to where this is technology that doesn't even exist. So I mean, that was the first time I knew that this is really something different.

   2. JRJoe Rogan8:22

      What was it? What was it, what was a, what was it about this reactor that made you think that it didn't exist, technologically?

   3. BLBob Lazar8:33

      Well, it was the, uh, I actually have to back up 'cause there were some briefings that I read at, before that, that, um, you know, certainly gave me the impression that this was gonna be a weird job. But this was the first hands-on thing. Uh, this was a small reactor about the size of a, hemisphere, about the size of a basketball on a metal plate. And when it was running, it produced a gravitational field, a gravitational field of its own. Now, this is something that we can't do. We can't produce any gravity. The only way we get gravity is from large quantities of mass, but there's no machine we can have that turns on that makes gravity like a ... You know you can turn on an electromagnet and it makes a magnetic field. We can't make a gravitational field. Anyway, this device was producing that, and Barry said (laughs) almost like he was bragging, "Go ahead. Try and, try and touch the sphere." And I, I couldn't. It would, it pushed my hands away just like two like poles of a magnet. So that was, uh-

   4. JRJoe Rogan9:31

      So like when you take two magnets and try to press them together and they push-

   5. BLBob Lazar9:33

      Yeah, you have that-

   6. JRJoe Rogan9:33

      ... against each other?

   7. BLBob Lazar9:34

      Yeah, that kind of-

   8. JRJoe Rogan9:35

      (coughs)

   9. BLBob Lazar9:35

      ... cushion feeling, but you can't, you can't get them together. The closer you put them, the more they push, but-

   10. JRJoe Rogan9:40

       And you felt that physically with your hand?

   11. BLBob Lazar9:41

       With my hand, yeah. Now, there's nothing, there's nothing that does that. And that immediately caught my attention, going, "Wow, this is something else."

   12. JRJoe Rogan9:49

       What was your thought, like when you felt that and you knew that there was nothing that you were aware of that could produce this?

   13. BLBob Lazar9:55

       Then that, that connected me to the briefings that I read on the f- the first day at S4, was that, uh, you know, everything that I had read was apparently accurate.

   14. JRJoe Rogan10:06

       And what were you reading?

   15. BLBob Lazar10:08

       I read, it was kind of an overview. This project was to back engineer the alien craft, and specifically it was to try and back engineer and see if we can duplicate the technology with available materials. Now to do this, they split the project into, you know, many different pieces for several reasons. They do, they do this on all classified projects, so uh, nobody has the complete story, but uh, they compartmentalize everything. Now, we had the power and propulsion system, so what, the briefings they gave me were like a one or two-page overview of some of the other projects that were going on, you know, on the craft. The only reason they do that is just in case what you're working on is connected intimately in some way that we don't know of to one of the other projects, you have to know their, (clears throat) excuse me, their existence. So um, you know, I, th- that, uh, again, they have everything from metallurgy to, um, you know, weapon potential of the craft, and these were all, you know, e- essentially very short briefings. But mine was just power and propulsion, and it made it very clear that what I read was accurate.

   16. JRJoe Rogan11:23

       So when you're reading that, before you actually saw the reactor, what were your thoughts on what they were describing? If you knew-

   17. BLBob Lazar11:33

       Well, I-

   18. JRJoe Rogan11:33

       ... that something like that didn't exist and they're describing it in the briefings, what did you think you were gonna see?

   19. BLBob Lazar11:40

       I really, I, I didn't know at the time. I mean, I was reading, I thought, "Is, this is some kinda test?" Um ...

   20. JRJoe Rogan11:46

       See if you're crazy?

   21. BLBob Lazar11:48

       Well, not to see if I'm crazy, to, uh ... You know, a lot of times they'll take in real high security, uh, jobs. I mean, they'll intentionally insert nonsense into them, um, whether it's to confuse the fact or if for someone was to leak it out, uh, they would carry that information along and know where it came from. So I read through the documents, but you know, I didn't know if this was, you know, part of some kind of test or, um-

   22. JRJoe Rogan12:15

       Right.

   23. BLBob Lazar12:16

       ... you know, or, or what? Or was it potentially realistic? I mean, I'd really didn't consider it being (laughs) all that possible as far as being, uh, the actual thing that I was gonna work on at the time.

5. 12:28 – 14:39

   How it ‘turned on,’ what they tested, and the danger of tinkering

   1. JRJoe Rogan12:28

      How did they turn it on?

   2. BLBob Lazar12:30

      The, the reactor?

   3. JRJoe Rogan12:31

      Yeah.

   4. BLBob Lazar12:32

      The reactor can be turned on or turned off in a lot of different ways. Um, the way Barry showed me, it, the hemisphere is removed. There's a small tower in the middle. When you put the hemisphere on, the reactor activates. The reactor shuts down its v- its load sensing. So if there's, if there's no load on the reactor at all, it shuts down. When there's, uh, a load present on it, it starts up again.

   5. JRJoe Rogan12:57

      Load meaning?

   6. BLBob Lazar12:58

      Uh, y- you can consider it an electrical load. So although it doesn't n- (laughs) necessarily operate electrically, there's no wiring that connects any of the sub-components together whatsoever. They just have to be in the immediate vicinity. It's, uh, it is b- The stuff is borderline magic, and that's essentially where we left it, you know, when I left the project.

   7. JRJoe Rogan13:23

      So there was no progress made?

   8. BLBob Lazar13:26

      There was some progress. I mean, we did identify, at least we think, some processes and, and had a rough idea, we think, of what was going on. But, um, I think this is a problem that they've had for a long time. And, um, you know, the, I was replacing somebody that Barry worked with prior to me, and I think there was some horrific accident that I didn't have a whole lot of information on, but, you know, Barry alluded to that.

   9. JRJoe Rogan13:53

      A horrific accident like where someone died or ...

   10. BLBob Lazar13:55

       Yeah, where somebody died.

   11. JRJoe Rogan13:57

       Because they were trying to tamper with things or figure out how something worked?

   12. BLBob Lazar14:01

       Yeah, the reactor in particular.

   13. JRJoe Rogan14:03

       But yet he let you touch it?

   14. BLBob Lazar14:06

       Yeah, I think what they were trying to do was cut into one.

   15. JRJoe Rogan14:09

       Oh, Jesus.

   16. BLBob Lazar14:09

       Now, they had, they had more than one there and I, that was supposedly there was an unannounced nuclear test, and that's what it was. At the time, remember, they were still doing underground nuclear tests at the test site. Um, but from what I understand according to Barry, there was an attempt made. Now, this must've been a pretty desperate attempt because it's not a very scientific process to cut, you know, analyze something that way. But it looked like they used a plasma cutter or something like that to cut into an exi- an operating reactor.

6. 14:39 – 29:29

   Nine craft and a controlled glimpse: different shapes, unknown origins, and minimal answers

   1. JRJoe Rogan14:39

      How many of these things did they have?

   2. BLBob Lazar14:41

      They had nine, nine craft altogether. I only got hands-on with one of them, so I can't really say what the, uh, how the others operated, but-

   3. JRJoe Rogan14:50

      Did you see the other ones?

   4. BLBob Lazar14:51

      Yeah. At one time, and only one time, the bay doors that, between the hangers were all open and I could see all the way through.

   5. JRJoe Rogan14:59

      And were they all exactly the same?

   6. BLBob Lazar15:02

      No, they were all different.

   7. JRJoe Rogan15:03

      Different shapes?

   8. BLBob Lazar15:04

      Yeah.

   9. JRJoe Rogan15:05

      But they were all from somewhere else?

   10. BLBob Lazar15:07

       Yeah, absolutely.

   11. JRJoe Rogan15:09

       Now, did anyone make any attempt to explain or to, to tell you where they came from?

   12. BLBob Lazar15:17

       No, no. No one is the least bit interested in letting everybody know all the facts. They want to give you the minimum information that's necessary to complete your task. So you're not getting the story of where they came from. You're not getting the story of what, how much progress other people are making. You just focus on the small component.

   13. JRJoe Rogan15:36

       But they gave you some indication that they'd been working on these for a while?

   14. BLBob Lazar15:40

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan15:41

       When do you think they, uh, acquired these?

   16. BLBob Lazar15:45

       I really couldn't say. I think they've been around for a while.

   17. JRJoe Rogan15:50

       So they bring you into this room. You see this reactor working. You, you realize this is nothing that, as far as like the scientific community at, at current time, has the ability to create. What is-

   18. BLBob Lazar16:05

       We still don't.

   19. JRJoe Rogan16:06

       What is your life like from that moment on? Is that where everything changes? 'Cause you, do you r- I mean, I, I would imagine the moment you actually make contact with something that's extraterrestrial, whether it's an object or a being, something where you can actual- absolutely be certain it's not from here, your whole paradigm, the whole world you live in, is now a different place.

   20. BLBob Lazar16:28

       Well, this is the only time it became exciting, you know. The rest of the time, the, it was really (laughs) an, an ominous feeling being at work. But it, at that time, it was exciting. I mean, this was, now I knew we were on the absolute beyon- Actually beyond the cutting edge of science, and I was, I was so absolutely excited to be there every single time I was. Um, you know, it, w- with, this was a fantastic opportunity, and, um ... However, (laughs) in, in short order it began to concern me, "We really have no idea what we're talking about." And the excitement kind of turned to dread at some point because the amount of power we're dealing with is astronomical. I mean, to affect gravity to produce the effects like this equipment does takes huge amounts of power. And I've given the, um, example before of, you know, taking a small portable nuclear reactor and, you know, putting it back into Victorian times, you know, with the scientists of the time, and just dropping it in a room. And they come and look at it and see that it's producing power and wonder how it works, so they start taking it apart. And as soon as they get some of the shielding off, the people are gonna drop dead because of the radiation inside. Now, the people have no idea that even, radiation even exists back then. But anybody that comes in to check on them will also drop dead. And, you know, there's no reason that that exact scenario couldn't happen with what we're dealing with. We have no idea how the physics operate within this thing. The power levels are, are, like I said, astronomical. Like, it's incredibly dangerous to tinker with something like that.... and (laughs) you know, in some respects, we were guinea pigs, just trying to find out how to make this thing.

   21. JRJoe Rogan18:26

       So they had had a series, y- y- as far as you surmised, they had a series of different scientists try to back engineer this thing, try to figure out what this thing was, and they would bring in new people and like, "Let's throw Bob at it."

   22. BLBob Lazar18:38

       Yeah. Yeah.

   23. JRJoe Rogan18:39

       And they know-

   24. BLBob Lazar18:40

       And I don't- I don't know how many, but I knew there was certainly one before me, and I knew he died during the analysis of the, or the, uh, reactor itself.

   25. JRJoe Rogan18:49

       And you don't know how many have worked on it and no one gave any indication-

   26. BLBob Lazar18:55

       This could've been there for 50 years. It could've been there for five years. I really don't know.

   27. JRJoe Rogan18:59

       When they're giving you instructions, what are they saying? Like, whe- when they're giving you direction, they're showing you all this stuff, like, what, what are, what are they saying? What specifically, what are they asking of you?

   28. BLBob Lazar19:08

       Well, essentially what they ask is, is what I said. All- we are just to gather as much information as possible, find out how it operates, and see if we can duplicate it, so I was really-

   29. JRJoe Rogan19:18

       But they never told you where it was from. They never let you ask questions about where it's from.

   30. BLBob Lazar19:22

       Well, if the information I read in the briefings was accurate ... Now, what I do have to say is, the information that pertained directly to the reactor was accurate. What I read did, I mean, did jive with reality, um ...
7. 29:29 – 41:40

   Inside the craft: small seats, seamless geometry, and ‘transparent’ structural archways

   1. BLBob Lazar29:29

      I mean, down, down to the metal. I, I did get a chance, uh, to look inside the craft on only one occasion. And this was important because, um, where the reactor sat might have been critical to how it operated, since everything operates without any interconnection. So the placement of components might be critical. So they allowed me to go inside and, and look at it. Um, ju- again, I forgot where the hell I am.

   2. JRJoe Rogan29:58

      So you're going into this craft and what are you thinking when you're inside of it? Like, what are you seeing?

   3. BLBob Lazar30:04

      It's, um, it's a very ominous feeling because it's, there are no sh- uh, first of all, everything is one color. It's like a dark pewter color and there are no right angles anywhere. It's as if somebody took, uh, I've said this before, somebody took a, a model out of, and fashioned it out of wax, and then heated it just for a short time so everything melted. Everything looks like it's fused together. Everything has a radius of curvature where two, uh, items meet. It's, uh, it's a really weird looking thing. But, um...... uh, there was almost nothing (laughs) other than a small foldable hatchway that, um, that looked recognizable. Everything was, uh, was really unworldly, to pick a ni- (laughs) a way to describe it.

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:57

      So you, you get inside this thing and it's designed for something that's much smaller than a human being.

   5. BLBob Lazar31:02

      Yeah, you can't really stand up til you get to the very center of it, but-

   6. JRJoe Rogan31:05

      And how tall are you?

   7. BLBob Lazar31:06

      I'm 5'10".

   8. JRJoe Rogan31:07

      And what do you think this was designed for?

   9. BLBob Lazar31:10

      I'd say something close to half my height.

   10. JRJoe Rogan31:12

       Wow, so these little 3-foot-tall-ish creatures.

   11. BLBob Lazar31:17

       Yeah, and they, the, the seats were small too. I mean, obviously it was made, you know, for something, something small. But there was no ... like there's, there's nothing else in there. There's just seats, the reactor, and some of the sub-components. There's no, there's no control panels, there's no bathroom, there's no, no decorative, uh, components or artwork or anything that you would recognize, or trim. I mean, it's just a very bare-bones thing, and-

   12. JRJoe Rogan31:44

       You're not seeing any screens?

   13. BLBob Lazar31:47

       Well, there are archways around it, uh, that are part of the super structure, and that one of the archways can become transparent. When I was in there, there was another group working on one of the archways, and you could call that a screen, more or less.

   14. JRJoe Rogan32:05

       So through that archway, it would be, it would maintain the solidity, the, the solid (knocks metal desk) whatever metal it was?

   15. BLBob Lazar32:13

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan32:13

       But you could see through it?

   17. BLBob Lazar32:14

       Yeah, it just became transparent, yeah. I saw that happen once or twice before I left.

   18. JRJoe Rogan32:19

       Did you ask any questions about what the fuck that was?

   19. BLBob Lazar32:21

       No, there was no asking questions, no.

   20. JRJoe Rogan32:22

       There was no asking questions. But when you watch something become transparent, and you realize it's still there but you can now see through it ...

   21. BLBob Lazar32:29

       Yeah, I mean, uh, now, that's not that impressive. We do have some liquid crystal materials that are like that, you know, they have a-

   22. JRJoe Rogan32:36

       I've never seen that in bathrooms.

   23. BLBob Lazar32:37

       ... smart glass. Yeah, they call it smart glass.

   24. JRJoe Rogan32:39

       (clears throat)

   25. BLBob Lazar32:39

       So this is just, uh, and I don't know if the craft is made of, you know, an advanced metal or a ceramic. It was cold to the touch, so, um, you know, I would lean more towards-

   26. JRJoe Rogan32:49

       And again-

   27. BLBob Lazar32:49

       ... a metal.

   28. JRJoe Rogan32:50

       ... you're not allowed to ask questions.

   29. BLBob Lazar32:52

       No, the only, they, they work on the buddy system, so I can only exchange ideas and talk to Barry. Now, this really interferes with science because science is based on free discussion, and ideally you get a bunch of guys together, exchange ideas, work on problems, and that's how things move forward. But they're so over the top concerned about security, they split everything off and everybody becomes stagnant. It, it, it, it, it just destroys any of the progress you can make, or at least makes it go so slow, um, they, I think they wind up shooting themselves in the foot.

   30. JRJoe Rogan33:29

       Which is probably why they're q- arrived at this bottleneck that they need to get this madman with a jet-powered Honda-
8. 41:40 – 45:30

   Propulsion layout and flight behavior: belly-first movement and gravity-envelope effects

   1. JRJoe Rogan41:40

      Now, how d- did you know at all how they were piloting it? Because some ... they were doing some tests where they're having these things fly around in the sky, and this is what gets us deeper into your story.

   2. BLBob Lazar41:57

      Right. Um, I was out there for, uh, one test, um, right ... in fact, I was in ... with Barry in the lab, and Dennis came in and said, uh, "We're about to run a test. Why don't you guys come out?" Or he's ... I think he said, "Barry, why don't you come out here and bring Bob with you." Uh, we went out there, and the craft was already outside the hangar and was just preparing to lift off. Now, they were in communication with somebody in the craft.

   3. JRJoe Rogan42:30

      So there was a person in the craft?

   4. BLBob Lazar42:32

      Oh, yeah. Yeah, there was s- certainly a person in there. Now, it's not a comfortable place to be in 'cause it's small, so the guy has to be sitting on the floor in the middle, uh, at my best guess.

   5. JRJoe Rogan42:42

      And this is the same specific craft that you worked on-

   6. BLBob Lazar42:44

      Yeah, that was-

   7. JRJoe Rogan42:45

      ... because you were the ... that was the only craft that you were in total?

   8. BLBob Lazar42:47

      The only one that I- I touched and worked on. Um-... and it quietly lifted off the ground, which was incredibly impressive to see. Um ...

   9. JRJoe Rogan42:56

      Quietly or silently?

   10. BLBob Lazar42:58

       What's ... (laughs) well, quietly because it-

   11. JRJoe Rogan43:02

       Did it make some sort of noise?

   12. BLBob Lazar43:03

       ... it produced, um, a little corona discharge from the bottom. A corona discharge is kind of a high-voltage brush, little bluish glow discharge. As it was lifting off the ground you can hear a, a slight hiss sound. Now as soon as it cleared the ground by about five or 10 feet, maybe even less than that, the hissing stopped and the blue glow disappeared. So it lifted off quietly and then it hovered silently, if you want to be specific.

   13. JRJoe Rogan43:29

       Wow. So then what kind of maneuvers was it doing?

   14. BLBob Lazar43:33

       It took a ... For that particular time it took off, moved a little round, around to the left and right, and then sat back down. The, um, the craft itself, um, they communicated with it with a reg ... Because I saw the guy talking, uh, in a regular VHF radio to the person in the craft. And I, I even saw the frequency that was on the, the frequency counter, the, uh, communication, the transceiver there. Um, but what's weird is he shouldn't be able to communicate with a craft with a radio. The radio, the radio waves should bend around the craft. I mean, it, it shouldn't be possible. E- every single thing about these, the craft and the way they operated didn't make any sense to us. I mean, that's something we talked about for a while after.

   15. JRJoe Rogan44:27

       Why should the frequency bend around the craft?

   16. BLBob Lazar44:30

       Well, you really have to look at the way the gravity wave comes out of the craft. There's a, the reactor's in the center and there's a wave guide that goes up to the top. There's actually a small appendage that sticks out of the top of the craft and it produces a heart-shaped gravitational distortion around the craft. Now if the craft is sitting in the air and you walk underneath it and look up, you actually cannot see the craft. The light bends around it. You're bending ... Gravity bends light, it bends radio waves, it's, um ... It, it shouldn't be possible to communicate with a craft that has an envelope around it that's distorting all forms of energy. But they were apparently in contact with it.

   17. JRJoe Rogan45:15

       Somehow or another, so through some unexplained way-

   18. BLBob Lazar45:18

       Yeah.

   19. JRJoe Rogan45:18

       ... that they didn't bother explaining to you.

   20. BLBob Lazar45:20

       Mm-hmm.

   21. JRJoe Rogan45:21

       So this thing gets up, it just does some very simple maneuvers, left, right, left, right, goes down. Um, and did they discuss this with you? I mean, they said they wanted you to see it.

9. 45:30 – 56:11

   Test schedules, filming from outside the range, and getting caught

   1. BLBob Lazar45:30

      No, they, they just wanted ... No, they, (laughs) they, they didn't discuss anything with me. It set, it sat down, we looked around for a bit and Barry said, "Let's go back." We went back in the lab. All we got to do was see it. Um, you know, fast-forward, um, to some months later, uh, I did have the test flight schedule of the craft. Now they had times they had designated high performance tests. This obviously wasn't one that, uh, was a high performance test. The, uh, high performance test went, goes above the mountain range and they do much more radical moves with the thing. Look, this is a prized item and they're not doing anything like taking it out of the atmosphere or flying around other countries or anything like that.

   2. JRJoe Rogan46:13

      Right.

   3. BLBob Lazar46:14

      They just, they just play with this thing right over the test site. Um, but they were doing some radical moves with it. And since I had the test flight schedule, statistically, the amount of traffic in the surrounding areas on the highway was lowest on Wednesdays. And that's why Deni- Denis told us that, uh, all the test flights occurred only on Wednesdays, because it'd be the least chance that anyone would see what's going on.

   4. JRJoe Rogan46:41

      And this was before the, the government had expanded the forbidden territory around Area 51 and Papoose Lake and all that stuff, right?

   5. BLBob Lazar46:51

      Yeah, I think that occurred after my story came out. Then people started going up on the mountaintops and trying to look down into there and they kinda freaked out, and then did the land grab and pushed everybody back. But yeah, that i- ... I think all that occurred long after, um, sc- uh, that I came out.

   6. JRJoe Rogan47:10

      So you're working there, and while you're working there you're under this crazy schedule. Uh, forgive me for explaining your story. But you, uh, would get these phone calls, you would have to go to the, to the airport at 11:00 PM, and your wife started thinking that you were having an affair.

   7. BLBob Lazar47:31

      Yeah, apparently so. Um, now I did give my permission to have, you know, as, as part of the, you know, security clearance process, um, I g- I gave wr- written permission to have the phones monitored and things of that sort, so they weren't doing any covert stuff. They, um ... You know, with any Qq clearance or which is civilian top secret clearance, or military top secret clearance, they go talk to friends in, you know, place- places you've been, make sure you're not connected to foreign countries. But, you know, monitoring your phone is nothing unusual. However, they insisted that, you know, you don't even talk to your loved one, to your partner, to your wife, whatever, about what's going on. So she was essentially in the dark and didn't know the phone was being monitored. Well, part of the security clearance is that not only do you not have any connections to foreign countries and aren't a maniac, but you have to have a stable home life too. Uh, well she started having an affair with a flight instructor. Now they were monitoring this on the phone and they knew it and I didn't. So they stopped me coming in, and their attitude at the time was, um, "We need to see how this is gonna play out and if Lazar is gonna get a little weird or anything. So let's just..."... you know, hold him off from coming in and, uh, you know, see what happens.

   8. JRJoe Rogan48:58

      And they explained this to you, what was happening?

   9. BLBob Lazar49:00

      (laughs) Well, after the fact, yeah, 'cause time kinda went on and there were guys that were following me around. And I started getting a little concerned going, "Well, chit, are they booting me out of the project?" And if so, they're not just gonna let me hang out at home and go get a new job knowing what I know. So as time went on, I started getting a little concerned and I took my closest friends and just kinda got together and said, "Hey, remember that job I told you about? This is what's going on." And, uh, "Like, you don't need to take my word for it. Uh, Wednesday night we need to all go out here, I wanna show you what's going on." So I took everybody and we went out to, um ... Remember, since I had the test flight scheduled, and went outside the base, um, out into the desert and so everybody could see, you know, one of the high-performance tests. And, uh, you know, it left quite an imprint on everybody, so they knew I wasn't crazy.

   10. JRJoe Rogan50:01

       And there's videos of these tests, right?

   11. BLBob Lazar50:03

       Yeah, but remember, this is in the -- it's in, in the dark in the '80s with a big monster-sized camcorder and you got-

   12. JRJoe Rogan50:09

       Mm-hmm.

   13. BLBob Lazar50:09

       ... you know, a bright light jumping around, but, uh, yeah, I mean, we did video of it but there's no ... By today's standards it's-

   14. JRJoe Rogan50:17

       But is your video-

   15. BLBob Lazar50:18

       ... you know, it's garbage.

   16. JRJoe Rogan50:18

       ... specifically available? The video that you took?

   17. BLBob Lazar50:21

       Yeah, well, George Knapp has it. It's-

   18. JRJoe Rogan50:23

       Is it online?

   19. BLBob Lazar50:23

       I give it to him.

   20. JRJoe Rogan50:24

       Do you know-

   21. BLBob Lazar50:24

       I have no idea.

   22. JRJoe Rogan50:25

       Jeremy?

   23. JCJeremy Corbell50:26

       Yeah, I show clips of it in my film. It's-

   24. JRJoe Rogan50:27

       Right.

   25. JCJeremy Corbell50:27

       ... it's online, and someone did a deep analysis of it. Uh, it was interesting, uh, to take a look at how he's-

   26. JRJoe Rogan50:33

       Pull this microphone up to your face.

   27. JCJeremy Corbell50:34

       Okay.

   28. JRJoe Rogan50:34

       Keep it about a fist from your face.

   29. JCJeremy Corbell50:35

       All right. Um, you know, to see how his video looks now, but as far as video evidence, I mean, we're, we are talking '80s camcorders, and the most important thing is the human story here. Everybody that he took up there on three separate occasions, they don't all like each other, they don't all talk, they all agree on one thing. They saw something that night at the exact point in time and space that Bob Lazar said. And remember, this is 17, 15, 17 miles south of Area 51. No one even knew really about Area 51. We're talking Papoose Lake. And they all agree, they saw something that night they had never seen before and they've never seen since, right when he said it. So that's one of like the six things where I'm like, "How did he know?" You can dismiss him. I, I tried to dismiss it, but some things we can't get around. And, and there's about five or six of them, "How did he know about this?"

   30. JRJoe Rogan51:22

       If Jamie wants to find that video right now, what would he look under?
10. 56:11 – 59:30

    Going public with George Knapp: the tape, threats, and alleged retaliation

    1. BLBob Lazar56:11

       I don't th- I don't know, I don't know why... I'm not sure they ex- exactly they knew what to do, but they did let me go that night and I went home. And that, this is kinda when the most stressful part started.

    2. JRJoe Rogan56:24

       'Cause you're realizing that you're being monitored 24/7.

    3. BLBob Lazar56:26

       Yeah, and now, yeah, now I know not only am I being monitored, but now I know I'm in trouble. And, uh, it wasn't a short time after that that I contacted, you know, at that time, the only investigative reporter I had heard of in Las Vegas was George Knapp. And, um, you know, told him some of the story, 'cause I had no idea what the hell was gonna happen at that point.

    4. JRJoe Rogan56:47

       So George Knapp tries to dissect your story, tries to find holes in it, tells it, puts it online, and makes everybody aware of it. And that's how I found out about it.

    5. BLBob Lazar56:58

       Yeah, to make a long story short, yeah. (laughs)

    6. JRJoe Rogan57:00

       Wh- what happens... Yeah, to really make a long story short. What happens from there on? I mean, do they contact you and say, "Hey, Bob, it's probably a good idea if you shut up"?

    7. BLBob Lazar57:12

       Uh, well-

    8. JRJoe Rogan57:13

       They try to label you as crazy? Was there...

    9. BLBob Lazar57:17

       There were... Boy, there were a lot of things that happened at, you know, between that point. Um, I'm leaving out a lot of stuff. Uh, to fill in the story, uh, we'd have to go back to Los Alamos and, and... Well, I really don't wanna talk about that. The, um ...

    10. JRJoe Rogan57:37

        Top secret weapons stuff that you were working on.

    11. BLBob Lazar57:41

        No, I'm talking about the 115.

    12. JRJoe Rogan57:43

        Mm-hmm.

    13. BLBob Lazar57:43

        Um, well, I don't know, I have to think about how I'd...

    14. JRJoe Rogan57:49

        What is the problem with this? (laughs)

    15. BLBob Lazar57:52

        (laughs) Well, 'cause I don't, I don't wanna, I don't wanna get myself into more trouble by admitting something, so, um, I just have to dance around a couple-

    16. JCJeremy Corbell57:59

        He was raided-

    17. JRJoe Rogan58:00

        Okay.

    18. JCJeremy Corbell58:00

        ... just during the filming of the movie.

    19. JRJoe Rogan58:02

        Yeah.

    20. JCJeremy Corbell58:02

        People thought-

    21. JRJoe Rogan58:03

        The movie's great, by the way.

    22. JCJeremy Corbell58:04

        Thanks, Joe.

    23. JRJoe Rogan58:04

        And, uh, it's on Netflix right now, if anybody wants to check it out. And if you're one of those people like me, who, um, you know, I've always loved the idea of UFOs. I became extremely weary talking to people who are UFO believers and UFO fanatics, 'cause there's so many of them that are full of shit. And not just full of shit, they're, they're childishly delirious. Like the way they talk about things, I mean, there's so many people that are, that, "I'm in contact. They, they reach me in the night and they explain to me what we're doing to the ocean is wrong." And like, and you're like, "Okay."

    24. BLBob Lazar58:38

        This is one of the reasons-

    25. JRJoe Rogan58:39

        Yeah.

    26. BLBob Lazar58:39

        ... I didn't wanna do the show.

    27. JRJoe Rogan58:40

        I'm sure. (laughs)

    28. JCJeremy Corbell58:41

        (laughs)

    29. BLBob Lazar58:41

        Uh, well, no, it, it-

    30. JRJoe Rogan58:42

        One of 'em.
11. 59:30 – 1:58:30

    2019 context and ‘recent confirmation’ narrative: AATIP/UAPs, Pentagon videos, and the Wilson Memo

    1. JCJeremy Corbell59:30

       Joe, I, I... It would be a disservice to your audience to not say that we have to look at what's going on now and understand. I've heard a, a... on your show a bunch of stuff about what's going on now, and to not really understand what's going on now, you can't see Bob's story in the correct light after 30 years. And at some point, we should just touch upon that. Um, the, the biggest being that things like the Tic Tac UFO case that, that came out, I've heard people even on this show say, "Oh, there's a glitch in the radar." Y- that's a data-poor perspective. You just don't know yet what's really going on. Commander Fravor, I was able to get the interview with him to talk with him way before it became public. I r- I got that from him. He saw it, other pilots saw it. This is a big thing that's going on right now. They, they had more sightings on the East Coast recently, cubes with, with spherical ores. These are not aerodynamic and these are the people we trust to defend us on 9/11. Commander Fravor protected Los Angeles on 9/11. So we trust them, but they're not trained observers. Radar, individuals see these things, and the big, the big one, just to throw down so we can consider a story a little differently, there's more depth to it, the big one is the United States government has admitted that they have been continuously studying the UFO phenomenon. That program was called AATIP, Advanced Aero s... or sorry, uh, was called AAWSAP. That, that's the mother program. George Knapp got that out. They, they, they announced to The New York Times about AATIP, but AAWSAP, these acronyms, AAWSAP, Advanced Aerospace Weapon Systems Applications program, who cares?... that was the mother program. So they've admitted, "We didn't stop studying UFOs in 1969 with Project Blue Book. We don't think it's crazy. We're actually want to reverse engineer the technology." That's why on your other show, you said, "What's this AAV thing? It's like they're making up another UFO name." Well, hold on, there's a reason. Because in the documents, the D- the DIA documents that George Knapp released, that everybody said was fake till now they know is real, they call them AAVs, which is advanced aerospace vehicles. People are getting the acronyms wrong. So the, the reason for the terminology change is so that we can mimic what we're reading in the DIA documents. People can look for that now. So they changed the names to get people away from UFO or UAP, even like Hillary Clinton said on air, right? So-

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:01:49

       What are you talking about? Hillary Clinton said on air?

    3. JCJeremy Corbell1:01:51

       Hillary Clinton informed the public on Jimmy Kimmel, "Oh, Jimmy, we don't call them UFOs anymore. We call them UAPs, unidentified aerial phenomenon." Right? So she kind of was giving... The cl- the Clintons are very into the UFO topic. Senator Reid, you know, he, he's done a lot for the, for the subject, the study of it, right? So she informed the public so they could look for the right term. So these terms are important because the DIA in those documents, they've been calling them AAVs for quite some time now.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:02:21

       And they changed the name to anomalous.

    5. JCJeremy Corbell1:02:24

       No, uh, that, that's kind of a misnomer.

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:02:26

       Advanced... No?

    7. JCJeremy Corbell1:02:27

       So, it... They always mess around with things but it's actually advanced aerospace-

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:02:31

       Right. But when they're describing it in the news, they were calling it anomalous aerospace vehicle.

    9. JCJeremy Corbell1:02:35

       Totally, totally. And that's cool. They were also saying anomalous aerospace threats, AAT, right?

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:02:41

        Ah.

    11. JCJeremy Corbell1:02:41

        Because they want the sense of a threat.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:02:43

        Right.

    13. JCJeremy Corbell1:02:43

        So, so my point is, all of... If people don't know this now and they think this stuff is, is fantasy, this, this part of it, that we're studying it, that we take it seriously, we're spending money on it, and that we're getting great data, from, from visual pilots to, to radar, that's why we know it's aerospace. They dropped from 80,000 feet. But guess what? That's the top scope of the SPY-1 radar, is 80,000 feet. So the radar system they were using, it was coming from above that. So my point is this. If you don't understand that this is happening, you're just behind the curve because you don't have the information because of the stigma that you're talking about. I saw you get totally upset with the UFO topic. I met you first when you were totally upset with the UFO topic. It's the people.

    14. JRJoe Rogan1:03:25

        When?

    15. JCJeremy Corbell1:03:26

        When, when you're doing your...

    16. JRJoe Rogan1:03:27

        Hold this microphone up to his face.

    17. JCJeremy Corbell1:03:28

        I'm sorry, man. When you're, when you're doing your show, you know, the Joe Rogan Questions Everything.

    18. JRJoe Rogan1:03:32

        Mm-hmm.

    19. JCJeremy Corbell1:03:33

        I could see how, how frustrating it is. Trust me, I have been frustrated to hell. Luckily, my mentor is George Knapp and he's taught me the pitball- pitfalls, uh, as I went through it. My whole point in this rant right here is just that we have to now look at Bob's story but knowing the facts, not someone saying it's a bird, it's a plane, it's a glitch. They're not. And so if you don't know that, you just don't have the information yet.

    20. JRJoe Rogan1:03:57

        And not just that, knowing the facts as we know them in 2019, not in 1988.

    21. JCJeremy Corbell1:04:02

        Absolutely.

    22. JRJoe Rogan1:04:03

        Right. Yeah.

    23. JCJeremy Corbell1:04:03

        And so what has he said that has come true? He's totally unimpressed with it. Right? What has he said that's come true? So I was like, "Bob, they've announced gravity as a wave. You were right, man. You're vindicated." And he looks at me and he's like, "Well, if you think about it, Jeremy, I had like a 50-50 chance." He was not very impressed. Right?

    24. JRJoe Rogan1:04:22

        When did they announce gravity as a wave?

    25. JCJeremy Corbell1:04:25

        So they detected, in a sense, they detected gravity waves and that was...

    26. JRJoe Rogan1:04:28

        And who are... Who is they?

    27. JCJeremy Corbell1:04:30

        You might know more. There was two black holes that were colliding and that's how they were able to detect...

    28. BLBob Lazar1:04:34

        Yeah. Somebody built... I don't know which group it was or what part of the government. Um...

    29. JCJeremy Corbell1:04:39

        That's what Google's for.

    30. BLBob Lazar1:04:40

        Yeah.

Episode duration: 2:14:44