EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,346 words- 0:00 – 15:00
... next month. …
- JNJohn Nores
... next month.
- JRJoe Rogan
Ready? Boom. All right, we're live. Hello, Jon. What's up, man? How are you?
- JNJohn Nores
Hey, Joe. How you doing?
- JRJoe Rogan
Thanks for doing this. I really appreciate it.
- JNJohn Nores
Thanks a lot for having me, man.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well-
- JNJohn Nores
It's great.
- JRJoe Rogan
... I heard you on MeatEater podcast, and-
- JNJohn Nores
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... uh, it blew my mind. I mean, I c- I could not-
- JNJohn Nores
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... believe. L- let's just let everybody know what this is about. You were a game warden, or you are a game warden.
- JNJohn Nores
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
And what that normally entails is like, you know, you find a guy and he's got three trout when he's only supposed to have-
- JNJohn Nores
Right, right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... two. It's, uh, normal stuff, like catch-
- JNJohn Nores
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... catch, catching people doing something they're not supposed to, or just making sure people follow the rules.
- JNJohn Nores
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
(smacks lips) Along the way, you guys started discovering these illegal grow ops-
- JNJohn Nores
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... where cartels were growing marijuana.
- JNJohn Nores
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And you turned from being a regular game warden to essentially... Well, uh, why don't you let us know what, how it worked out?
- JNJohn Nores
Yeah, Joe. It was, it was a crazy journey because you don't think of game wardens doing the type of work we were doing when it come to the, the trespass grows-
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JNJohn Nores
... and the cartel issue, you know. And what do everybody think? They think game wardens check fishing licenses-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JNJohn Nores
... check your deer tag or elk tag, look for too many, you know, animals, poaching, spotlighting. And honestly, when I started the job, I got hired back in 1992, that's what I dreamed of doing, you know. I grew up hunting and fishing, and I got my hunter safety certificate with, with dad's help at nine years old, so I was all in the woods. You know, the woods are my church. I just loved it because three generations of family, my grandfather's career Navy, my dad, you know, as an army guy. And, you know, we just had conservation in our family, you know, um, for generations. So I got the job, did it, and I did all the traditional stuff to start. Came down here to Southern California to start my career in Riverside County. (smacks lips) So it was just over the hill, you know, from, from LA here, and working all the traditional stuff, fishing regulations, night hunting, you know, working deer openers. It was really cool to be a deer hunter for all those years and then actually go w- you know, talk to guys on the other side and see all the good guys out there, and some problems. Um, and then in, uh, 1995, I got to go back home toward the Silicon Valley. That's where I'm originally from, born and raised. So live in the suburbs, kind of the foothill areas of, uh, the Silicon Valley, south of San Jose there. And in 2004, I f- I stumbled into my first, uh, you know, cartel, what we call a trespass marijuana grow site. And, you know, to specify this stuff now, now that we're regulating, you know, the last couple of years here in California, these are not sanctioned marijuana sites. This isn't the legitimate industry that's doing it by the numbers and trying to. (smacks lips) This is kind of always illegal. Uh, these are always here, you know, on public lands, destroying our environmental waterways and our wildlife, and on private land as well. And on that situation, I had a good friend of mine that I grew up with, um, that was doing his master's thesis at San Jose State University, both of our alma mater, on steelhead trout, endangered species, red-legged, yellow-legged frog, and all the aquatics in these two creeks. And this was right below Henry Coe State Park, where I really met my first game warden that was an inspiration to get the job. So these waterways are really sensitive. Headwaters coming down through this stretch for like three miles, all these endangered species in it, black-tailed deer, you know, all these other great animals we like as conservationists, they're thriving on this creek. And he called me one day in April and said, "Hey, Jon, this is weird. One of my two creeks is bone dry and all the fish, the steelhead fry are dead. You know, everything living on this creek is dead. There's a bunch of like debris and plastic lining and looks like camping stuff that's down at the bottom of where this creek feeds out." So I get him in the truck and I figure, I'm thinking, "Okay, someone's diverting water up there. It's probably a rancher needing it for cattle operation, whatever." We go to the top of the hill, Joe, then we start the hike down and I'm by myself. You know, I got my, I was, I got my rifle, got my gear, don't have any radio coverage, don't have any cell phone coverage, and I have an unarmed civilian, my partner, a biologist, with me. And we're expecting to find something very predictable that I'd seen up to that point, and that would have been a normal water diversion. And when we found the water source in a beautiful canyon, I mean, crystal clear water, trout creek, the whole nine, start hiking down it following this, uh, we see the dam, we see the water line, go about 100 yards down this beautiful little Grand Canyon-like creek, and there's a bunch of marijuana plants. And they're, they're short because it's early in the season. They're only about two feet tall. And we see two growers, and they're not the growers I'm typ- you know, that I would have suspected. These guys are, you know, they got rifles, they got handguns, they got knives, and they're kind of cruising, working their plants, coming toward us. And that was that oh shit moment, you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- 15:00 – 30:00
Now, since 2004, have…
- JNJohn Nores
hours waiting for an air rescue. And we had ni- you know, nobody in the country from the standpoint of a law enforcement team had ever been counterattacked by these growers. We'd s- you know, we chased them around, they'd run away. Sometimes we'd find weapons, oftentimes we wouldn't. But, so this was just a real eye-opener, like, "What the f- fuck did we just walk into?" And plus, my partner was real close to not making it. And fortunately, he did survive, or I don't know that we'd be sitting here telling this story and talking about it. But that day, when I saw how well they were equipped, the type of weaponry they had, um, and the fact that I don't, almost didn't come home that day, I went, "Okay, this is super dangerous. We can't do this as standard patrol game wardens. We can't do this doing just the traditional stuff. We should stay involved in it because aside from being so violent, the environmental damages, Joe, were the worst I'd still ever seen." And they just kept getting worse and worse the more operations I'd work in my home county, right? Um, so we learned a lot from that. There were a lot of tactical lessons. There were a lot of team lessons, a lot of things we could have done different. And that kinda changed the game where we eventually got to what we're gonna talk about a little bit later.
- JRJoe Rogan
Now, since 2004, have there been plans implemented to clean up-
- JNJohn Nores
Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and also restore waterways and all the different-
- JNJohn Nores
Absolutely.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JNJohn Nores
Absolutely. And-
- JRJoe Rogan
So now, there's like a whole... They realized this is an issue and so there's, there's precedent. There's-
- JNJohn Nores
Very much so. And, and that largely came from what we saw, you know, in those early years, the 2004 first op on, down there on Dexter Canyon Creek and then what we had on Sierra Azul when my partner was shot in 2005. About then, we started to also see the banned poisons in these grows, like the Carbofurin bottles. Um, and just to give a background, this stuff is so deadly, um, it was made as an insecticide or rodenticide just to kill anything that you put on any type of agricultural product. And it was made originally back in, I think, like, the '50s for legitimate agriculture. And then they found out how toxic it was, and EPA banned it from use or even possession. It's a felony to have it in the country and use it anywhere without special licenses, um, through legitimate channels here in America. And they banned it, like, 15 years ago because it was so nasty. But because it does keep everything off the marijuana plants, I mean, nothing can c- even get near it without dying almost instantly, they still get it in third world countries. They can get it in Mexico and it gets smuggled across the border with the grow groups, the, the drug trafficking groups because it's so effective regardless how poisonous it is. And we were starting to see more and more of that stuff as we were starting to ramp more of a specialty to doing this job more, you know, thoroughly and safely and get into the cleanup.
- JRJoe Rogan
Uh, this is one of the many thing... I b- I brought this up with Dan Crenshaw the other day, and I, I talked about you. And, um, because he's, uh, against federally l- making marijuana federally legal. And I said, "Well, one of the problems with it being illegal is this." And I was explaining these grow ops that for the rest of the country where marijuana is illegal-
- JNJohn Nores
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... the vast majority... Like, what was the number that you said, the percentage that was, uh, that's grown in California that's illegally sold through the rest of the country?
- JNJohn Nores
70 to 80%.
- JRJoe Rogan
So 70 to 80%-
- JNJohn Nores
Through the whole nation.
- JRJoe Rogan
... of the entire m- marijuana population or marijuana-
- JNJohn Nores
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... product that you're buying if you're living in place like South Dakota or where- wherever it's-
- JNJohn Nores
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
I don't even know if it's legal in South Dakota. Wherever it's illegal.
- JNJohn Nores
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
They're buying it from here.
- JNJohn Nores
Exactly.
- JRJoe Rogan
And it's because, one of the reasons is because our state laws say that, well, first of all, we're close to Mexico, so the-
- JNJohn Nores
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
... cartel members can come up really quickly.
- JNJohn Nores
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
And then the other problem is that our state laws, when we made marijuana legal recreationally here, we severely lowered the penalty for an illegal grow-op. It became a misdemeanor, correct?
- JNJohn Nores
That was the, that was the thing. You know, when, when we started the, the department's special team, the, the spec ops marijuana enforcement team that Hidden War goes into, um, part of my job is being the co-founder of that and the team leader was outreach. So I was speaking to legislative groups before we legalized under Prop 64 and then the tighter medicinal marijuana laws that, that came about that same time. Um, and I was talking to anybody, conservation groups that you and I would, you know, be part of, um, preservation animal rights groups, high school kids', you know, assemblies, right? "Watch out, you know, if you're using weed, make sure you're not (laughs) using this stuff because it's so nasty."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- 30:00 – 45:00
I have a friend…
- JNJohn Nores
diverted like what I found in 2004 that started this whole craziness, um, and then they run into a grow. We also, um, do find it from the air. You know, we do, all agencies, it's no- no secret, no- no tactical reveal. We- we fly to look for this stuff from the air.
- JRJoe Rogan
I have a friend who found one-... uh, on Tejon Ranch.
- JNJohn Nores
Really?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JNJohn Nores
Okay.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, a few years back and, uh, I didn't think anything of it. I thought it was just, uh, some crazy person decided to try to grow pot.
- JNJohn Nores
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
This is back before it was recreationally legal.
- JNJohn Nores
Okay.
- JRJoe Rogan
And, um, there was no shootout or anything crazy like that. They-
- JNJohn Nores
Good to hear. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
They got there after... Yeah, either they realized that their grow op had been compromised and they took off, but, you know, Tejon Ranch is enormous. It's like 270,000 acres.
- JNJohn Nores
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And, uh, just the- the gall of these guys to go deep into that ranch and set up this grow site.
- JNJohn Nores
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
And the guys who worked there, they... I guess they just stumbled upon it. And I think they stumbled upon it because of garbage too, if I remember correctly.
- JNJohn Nores
Yeah, that- that- that follows track and the thing... Now you're talking about a private hunting ranch that's got a cattle lease and all that. Tejon's huge, we've done a lot of good stuff with Tejon Ranch and supported, you know, good hunting programs there. But an interesting statistic, when I retired last year in December in 2018, you know, I mean, we keep stats ever since... One of the cool things about the, our specialized team start in 2013 is we solidified all the documentation to be spot on. You know, reporting was kind of haphazard throughout the state, we weren't sure what other agencies were doing, but we knew what we were doing now. And so I'm keeping that data and there was a real shift in just public land presence of these cartel growers and by the time I, uh, retired last year, it was almost a 50/50 split. So ranches like Tejon Ranch, a private hunting club in the Silicon Valley, one up in Shasta County. So, you know, where they're doing big time conservation projects to get black tail and mule deer and tule elk and everything else up in numbers and now they've got this presence on their hunting club hitting one of their sensitive waterways, you know, so...
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- JNJohn Nores
So it's- it's not just a public land thing and it's really good for everybody listening to know that. You could find it anywhere and- and you stumbled on it and, uh, it's- it's funny you mentioned the reporting parties. The cool thing after I did Steven's show on, uh, Meat Eater and talked to those guys, um, we started to get tips.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- JNJohn Nores
You know, I actually got a tip and, you know, and it's- it's in play and I- I won't say too much more about it-
- JRJoe Rogan
Really? That's excellent.
- JNJohn Nores
... but we'll definitely be... We'll be talking when it's all over and done, but it's- it's gonna get handled and, uh, it's so cool to see the guys like you and I that hunt and love it and love the passion of what's out there are out there stumbling on this stuff and getting out safely and- and we're fired up enough not to wait. You know, we're- we're calling people to say, "Hey, it's out there, can you help us?" Whether it's the warden, sheriffs or- or whoever.
- JRJoe Rogan
Are you guys getting any incidents of hikers or anyone getting shot at or...
- JNJohn Nores
Yeah, it- it's happened. It's happened. Fortunately, it doesn't happen a lot, um, where we have a lot of fatalities, but I want to say about five, six years ago, we had a, uh, a father-daughter combination on a deer hunt up in one of the D zones in northeastern California and they were shot at by cartel growers going in on a deer opener to try to harvest her first deer. You know, she was coming up through the program and-
- JRJoe Rogan
Jeez.
- JNJohn Nores
Yeah, it was horrible. Fortunately, they weren't hurt, they got out of the area, they reported it. Um, we've had people run out of, you know, run out of gardens, um, by- by some of these growers. We have had other shots fired and we've had people just stay out of areas, because once they see it or they see a guy holding a weapon like that in a marijuana plantation they know isn't legit, they're out of there, so...
- JRJoe Rogan
Is there an area where they c- ... I mean, it's all public land mostly or and- and private land, ranch land.
- JNJohn Nores
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
But is there an area of the state where they- there's more of them?
- 45:00 – 1:00:00
(laughs) …
- JNJohn Nores
alone. I'd be in my truck. I didn't have a K9 yet, you know, and now I just, uh, I just retired with... Well, like your Marshall, I have Apollo, yellow lab, English lab. She's amazing. Never gonna bite a bad guy, but she's gonna lick them to death and try to-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JNJohn Nores
... t- t- try to, you know, uh, turn them our way. Um, but I didn't even have a companion dog at the time. And I would go and run into these guys and go, "Okay, this is what I learned in the academy," that, you know, that, that head-on spotlighting stop that you never wanna have or getting behind them blacked out and tracking them down. Um, and next thing I know I got AKs and I got all these fricking prohibited exotic weapons and I'm going, "This is crazy. I'm pulling these guys out alone. I don't have a lot of backup."
- JRJoe Rogan
So it was just you?
- JNJohn Nores
It was just me.
- JRJoe Rogan
How many guys did you run into?
- JNJohn Nores
Sometimes it would be two. One night I pulled like eight people out of a van.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, shit.
- JNJohn Nores
A- and I was alone.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, shit.
- JNJohn Nores
And they were all armed and it was one of my heaviest, most intense cases and I had been on one year. So this was 1994 and what we were doing in the Riverside squad is we were just saturating the area 'cause we were getting everybody from over on the LA side here spotlighting all our game. So we're like, "Okay, let's saturate this." And back then, Joe, the game was to catch a spotlighter red-handed 'cause they're so deliberate and-
- JRJoe Rogan
Explain spotlight to-
- JNJohn Nores
Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... the people that listen to this and go-
- JNJohn Nores
Yeah, I pre- yeah. I shoulda, I shoulda done that. But spotlighting is where you use a l- an artificial light, whether it's a handheld spotlight, a flashlight, whatever, and you go into remote areas and you look to find animals at night because they freeze, they're really relaxed, their eyes glow. And then you shoot them that way. You kill them illegally at night after dark, which is never allowed. You know, it's usually in or out of hunting season 'cause anyone that's gonna spotlight a deer nine times out of 10, they're, they're not licensed or they're not gonna do it during season like we do. Um, so they're doing that. So in the, in our world as game wardens, that's the ultimate wildlife criminal because they're gonna kill does, you know, that, that have that unborn trophy buck for good genetics. They're gonna kill a trophy deer way in the rut, you know, that, you know, needs to go another year or whatever. Um, so that's what we focused on. That was like if I can cut my teeth and get, you know, become a, a, a reputable game warden of going after the hardcores, that was the game then. So it was '94 and I'm pulling these guys out, I'm calling them out on loudspeaker, I've got my weapon on them and I'm like, "Oh, man, there's a lot of guys out there." I can't get them to jail. I'm calling backup. I got Riverside County coming in. I mean, we even had the, the, the sheriff's office helicopter come in several nights. Once we got to know each other and they realized, "Who is this game warden and what are these game wardens in Riverside County going out into just crazy areas by themself?" They'd monitor our traffic and they'd come in on the helicopter and light it up and call them, you know, call these bad guys out on loudspeakers just to make sure we were okay. And it feels good when the cavalry comes on those nights, man, let me tell you.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, so in this-
- JNJohn Nores
It's crazy.
- JRJoe Rogan
... sort of situations, they just didn't know that you would ever run into someone that's that armed, that many guys-
- JNJohn Nores
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... in the van or what have you, eight people.
- JNJohn Nores
Right.
- JRJoe Rogan
It... So, so the, the reason why you're patrolling by yourself is 'cause they didn't anticipate anything like this.
- JNJohn Nores
Well, and we didn't have the bodies.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. Oh, okay.
- JNJohn Nores
This was one of the things that was crazy. We get back to the thin green line concept and realize that one game warden is responsible for 200 to 250 square miles, give or take.
- JRJoe Rogan
Whoa.
- JNJohn Nores
And you know how big Riverside County is on the Inland Empire.
- JRJoe Rogan
200 square miles?
- JNJohn Nores
Maybe more, you know, depending on what part of the state you're in.
- JRJoe Rogan
One game warden?
- 1:00:00 – 1:07:00
Wow. …
- JNJohn Nores
and, and got us unified, right? 'Cause the whole thing is we need to be unified on this, on this concept. Not polarized left or right, anti-cannabis, pro-cannabis. Let's get unified on environmental safety, public safety, all of it. Um, but because of how we've regulated and the licensing fees and the protocol and everything else, we've had all of these, you know, black market growers in the 215 days that wanted to get legal and saw everything coming and the cost to do it and being on Big Brother's radar or law enforcement's radar, and they backed out. Like in Humboldt County, we had like, I wanna say in the better part of 10 to 50,000 growers ready to regulate, and we barely got 1,000. You know, and they went, "You know, I can't afford to go through this permitting process. I can't afford the delays, so I'm just gonna go back on the black market. I'm not gonna be on the radar."
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- JNJohn Nores
And that has to stop if we're gonna regulate, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JNJohn Nores
Um-The thing that was re- was really interesting, and, uh, I- I never saw this coming, but when- when we were about to roll out Prop 64 and, you know, it had been voted, uh, for recreational and- and the medical laws were tightening up, I was the first law enforcement guy, being from a marijuana enforcement team, to, uh, to go into these, uh, California Grower Association hosted grower meetings. And my first one was in Santa Cruz, right over the hill from my place, right? And I mean, I'm in the, you know, I'm in the BDUs, the camo bottoms, the polo, I'm going in, in my, you know, my training attire for MET, and the look on 500 growers' faces when I walked into that meeting, just like, "What's he doing here? Conflict of interest. He's working us." These are guys watching our license plates, and I'm just like, "Guys, everybody breathe. I'm gonna tell you a story. I'm gonna show you a PowerPoint. It's gonna be graphic. I'm not here to work anybody, you know? I'm here to unify. Just hear what I have to say. No judgment." And so I was on- Were these guys aware of how big the situation was before you showed them that? I would have thought so because it- they're in the industry, right? Yes. They know weed better than just about anybody. I would- Yeah, they're high all the time. (laughs) They're not seeing the cartel. They're just look- (laughs) They're not paying attention. They're just growing pot. Yeah, that's all. I- I didn't see that guy. Was that kind of trail camera? Why's he got a backpack of, like, 300 pounds of pipe? Yeah. But anyway, um- That did explain that. I mean, these guys- Yeah. ... literally would back in hundreds and hundreds of yards- Yeah. ... of pipe and of- Yeah. ... uh, tubing, like for hoses on their back. Oh, they're tough. Yeah, I've got- I've got photos in the new book on trail cam with felt on their feet covering their tracks with these seabags, 100-plus pounds and a spool of pipe going up, man, like- People don't know how hard that is to do. I mean, if these- It's hard. ... guys just took a legit job- Yeah. ... they'd be like the best employees you'd ever have. Oh, they would. They would, man. They're, uh, they're tough. And they're, I mean, to look at the environment they live in for six months, man. Yeah. They're all outdoors. But I was at this meeting and, uh, I gave the presentation, I talked about it, and it was crazy to see the look of shock on these, um, these grower groups' faces. I mean, some women were in tears. Um, some of the guys were just like pissed off and pumping their fists and they're like, "That's bullshit. We are not about that. We're not about doing anything bad with our water. We like our wildlife. We just wanna grow cannabis. We want to be regulated." You know? And it was such a turnaround, you know, from the traditional relationship between law enforcement and the cannabis world, um, and to s- to be the one guy there with all of the growing community there and then go from complete horror that I was there as an adversary or judgment or anything of that or, you know, to- to do anything negative from an enforcement standpoint to suddenly having real talks of what was going out and- and I could kinda see the authenticity, the genuineness on some of their faces, the way they reacted to my slides, to the videos. And so, um, when I left that first meeting, I remember I just got flooded in my patrol truck and I had Apollo with me, my little lab, and she's an icebreaker. I thought, "Well, could be an interesting meeting. I should have the dog for pets, you know?" And she jumped in and I, uh, all these growers were coming to my truck and I'm packing up my stuff and I'm going, "Wow, this is weird." And it was all these, you know, farmer supervisors, um, from all over the state. You know, Mendocino County, up in the Emerald Triangle, Santa Cruz, and they're just giving me their cards and going, "Hey, Lieutenant, I have workers, I have resources. We will hike in and clean up a grow with you. Let us help the MET team, let us help the cannabis program. Whatever we can do and no-" Well, that's great. "... no charge." And- and that was genuine, man. I- I was really, really taken back by that in a positive way and I realized if we get the legitimate farmers on our side and they're aware of this, they will help market that message. They- Also they have money. And they have money. Yeah. Yeah. And they- I mean, the legitimate farmers are making a lot of money. That would be- Yeah. ... a great way for- Yeah. ... you know, we, I mean, tax-wise, if we, I mean, there's extremely high taxes- Right. ... on cannabis as it is. Right. But if we could allocate that taxes- Absolutely. ... to you guys- Yeah. ... that- that would be incredible. Yeah. I mean, where's the money going? Let's have a certain percentage of it designated for wardens. That's starting to happen too because what's, now that we've had a couple of years and we're seeing some of the regulatory funding and the taxes trickle back, um, I'm in contact with my team all the time, I still get to see them periodically and train and do things like that, and really give them a shout-out for all the amazing, you know, risks they're taking and the work they're doing and- and promote their message of what they're out there doing. But, um, the money's starting to come back to us now. Now- So we're starting to get equipment, we're starting to get more bodies, we're starting to get, like, overtime funding so the ridiculous long hours, um, our small team works, they're compensated for. That just- just happened literally, you know, within a month or two of- of being on the show with you. So- Gotta get- ... we're seeing some positives from that. Gotta get those rates raised. We're trying. Yeah, I mean, that's- We're trying. Alert the press. 40% is disgusting. Hey, this, uh, this coffee's awesome, by the way. Pretty damn good. Oh my gosh. Shout-out to Laird Hamilton. Laird Hamilton, man. (laughs) I'm not even a coffee drinker and I'm loving this stuff. (laughs) It's great stuff. It- I'm a convert now. ... makes your mouth smack though. Gives you a little... (smacks lips) It does, a little (smacks lips) Yeah, a little- You gotta like ... (clears throat) Gotta clear your throat a lot. Yeah. (laughs) It's that coconut oil and turmeric and all that jazz. Um- Healthy. Yeah. D- Colorado was the first state to legalize it and Washington state. Yeah. Do they have similar problems? They still have a black market, you know, and- and the thing right now because we're not regulating federally and so every state, anything that's grown stays in that state per law, right? Mm-hmm. But every, all the demand is back east in these non-regulated states- Right. ... where they don't grow it, so Colorado has a, you know, an interstate black market that's done by the, you know, quasi-legitimate growers as well as the cartel element. So there's still that black market thriving within, you know, the black market cannabis industry that isn't cartel public lands. We- we've got different mixes and we've got different- Okay, so it's a different kind of a problem in Colorado. So they don't have as many cartel grows? Not as many. They have some. Mm-hmm. They have some. I've- I've- I've talked to those guys and worked with them a little bit and they do have some, but again, they're kinda like where I'm at in Montana now. Tight little growing window, you know, early winters, late thaws, so they don't have a very big growing season outdoors. The c- the conditions aren't prime like they are here in Cali. This, uh, this is a giant issue that is largely undiscussed and it's one of the reasons why I was so fascinated by that podcast, is the- Yeah. ... and this is, uh, one more-
Episode duration: 2:04:10
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