Joe Rogan Experience #1347 - Neil deGrasse Tyson

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   Hello. …

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:04

      Hello.

   2. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson0:05

      Joe.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      What's going on, man?

   4. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson0:07

      Man.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:07

      Good to see you.

   6. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson0:08

      Thanks, thanks. I feel a little overdressed, sorry about this.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:10

      You look good.

   8. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson0:11

      You know...

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:11

      Oh, look at that.

   10. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson0:12

       A little bit of Starry Night there.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:14

       Yeah, you're really into that, huh?

   12. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson0:15

       Uh, yeah, I got, I got-

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:16

       That's, is that-

   14. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson0:17

       Yeah.

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:17

       That's what's on your phone as well.

   16. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson0:18

       So you remembered, yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan0:19

       Yes.

   18. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson0:19

       Uh, yeah. Yeah, it's on the phone.

   19. JRJoe Rogan0:21

       (laughs)

   20. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson0:22

       Starry Night, I, what, you know what I like about Starry Night? It's not what Van Gogh saw that night, it's what he felt.

   21. JRJoe Rogan0:30

       How do you know what he felt?

   22. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson0:32

       Because this is not an a- a representation of reality.

   23. JRJoe Rogan0:35

       Oh, okay.

   24. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson0:36

       And anything that deviates from reality is reality that has filtered through your senses. And I think art at its highest is exactly that. If this was an exact depiction of reality, it would be a photograph and I don't need the artist.

   25. JRJoe Rogan0:50

       Hmm. Okay.

   26. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson0:51

       So, even photographs that take you to a slightly other kinda dimension as you gaze upon them, it's more than what was actually going on at the time, and that's, that's art taken to the craft of photography.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:05

       That's why you like it?

   28. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:06

       That's, uh, it's one of the reasons why. Plus I think it was the very first painting where its title is the background. Think about that. This coulda been called, uh, you know, in, in the full painting obviously, this is a, a, a snippet.

   29. JRJoe Rogan1:23

       A town.

   30. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:23

       Yeah, yeah. So there's a town there, there's a cypress tree, there's a church steeple. It coulda been called Cypress Tree. It coulda been called Sleepy Village. It could've been called Rolling Hills. But no, it's called Starry Night, and everything in front of it-
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Ice caps. …

   1. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson15:00

      if you keep melting our, our, our, um...

   2. JRJoe Rogan15:04

      Ice caps.

   3. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson15:04

      Uh, the, uh, not the ice caps 'cause that would include the North and there's no land in the North, so, uh, the glacier ice that's land-based ice, right? 'Cause any ice that's in the water floating, that can melt and it's not gonna change the water level.

   4. JRJoe Rogan15:17

      Mm. Oh, okay.

   5. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson15:18

      So it's why... You can do this experiment, it's really cool. Fill up your glass, uh, put some, a few cubes of ice in a glass of water. Fill the glass up as much as you possibly can without spilling it, and the ice is bobbing above that level, okay? 'Cause ice is about 10% buoyant on that. About 10% of an ice cube will be lifted above. This, this is the, this is the iceberg equation, right?

   6. JRJoe Rogan15:38

      Mm.

   7. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson15:39

      Right? That's the tip of the iceberg. Well, you see the 10% above and 90% is not visible to you. This is, by the way, uh, I don't wanna get to too many off-ramps here, but that's one of the, one of the things that they did right in Titanic, okay? If you look at the earliest Titanic movie that was in black and white, they see this huge iceberg on the horizon and then it can't, they can't swerve away from it 'cause it, oh my gosh. It doesn't have... No. No. The iceberg that cuts the bottom of your boat is a little bit of ice sticking out above the water because 90% of it is underwater and that's where the damage occurs. And in the James Cameron Titanic, the iceberg that they hit above water was, looks like a little chunk of ice and "Oh, that couldn't hurt anything." All the damage was underwater. Anyhow, so back to this. So do this experiment and then let the glass sit there and let the ice melt and the water level will stay the same because when ice melts it gets, takes up lower volume than it was when it became ice.

   8. JRJoe Rogan16:37

      Mm.

   9. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson16:38

      And that's why pipes break.

   10. JRJoe Rogan16:40

       I thought pipes break just because the water expands.

   11. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson16:43

       Yeah, I just described that in the opposite direction.

   12. JRJoe Rogan16:45

       Oh. Oh.

   13. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson16:46

       (laughs)

   14. JRJoe Rogan16:47

       So because it, as it freezes it... But I didn't know it gets larger.

   15. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson16:50

       That's what expansion means. What-

   16. JRJoe Rogan16:51

       Right.

   17. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson16:51

       ... kind of, what, what's with your vocabulary here? Right?

   18. JRJoe Rogan16:54

       No, but I'm saying like-

   19. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson16:55

       No, no. Wait, wait. So, so your ice cube is sitting 10%-

   20. JRJoe Rogan16:57

       ... when you freeze something, it gets larger?

   21. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson16:58

       Your ice cube is sitting 10% above the water level and it melts-

   22. JRJoe Rogan17:00

       Right.

   23. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson17:00

       ... and becomes water. The water takes up 90% of the volume of the ice.

   24. JRJoe Rogan17:05

       Right.

   25. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson17:06

       So that just melts back into the water and it doesn't overflow, even though it was sticking above the water line when you had the glass.

   26. JRJoe Rogan17:12

       So when you freeze pipes-

   27. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson17:12

       So now let's do the opposite.

   28. JRJoe Rogan17:14

       Okay.

   29. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson17:15

       There's water in the pipes.

   30. JRJoe Rogan17:16

       Right.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   180 degrees? …

   1. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson30:00

      one atmospheric pressure. That's how you get 212 degrees. If you start reducing the atmospheric pressure, it's 210 degrees, 205 degrees, 200 degrees, 190 degrees, 180 degrees.

   2. JRJoe Rogan30:11

      180 degrees?

   3. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson30:12

      Yo. Yes, and so that's not as hot-

   4. JRJoe Rogan30:15

      But, but-

   5. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson30:15

      ... as 212 degrees so you gotta cook the food longer.

   6. JRJoe Rogan30:18

      Oh, wow.

   7. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson30:18

      All cooking times are increased for this reason. So now watch, I'm not done with you.

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:23

      Uh-oh.

   9. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson30:24

      Let's keep reducing the air pressure. Okay?

   10. JRJoe Rogan30:28

       Theoretical-

   11. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson30:29

       Well-

   12. JRJoe Rogan30:29

       ... or, like, possible on Earth?

   13. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson30:31

       ... no. No, no, y- y-

   14. JRJoe Rogan30:31

       Like, Himalayas.

   15. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson30:32

       Yeah, but... Or take it up... Y- y- you can ascend in some kind of copter or some kind of device.

   16. JRJoe Rogan30:37

       Okay.

   17. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson30:37

       Or, or, or air balloon, whatever. But I'm saying you can do this experiment in a, in a, in a laboratory.

   18. JRJoe Rogan30:42

       Okay.

   19. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson30:42

       Okay? You keep reducing the air pressure. Boiling point keeps dropping. It's 170 degrees, 150, 120, 100 degrees Fahrenheit, 80 degrees Fahrenheit, 50 degrees Fahrenheit, 40 degrees Fahrenheit, 32 degrees Fahrenheit. Holy shit. What happens? The ice melts and becomes water. The water evaporates and becomes steam. And all of that's happening at 32 degrees. There is an atmospheric pressure for which water, ice, and steam co-exist, and it's called the triple point of water. And all ingredients have a triple point.

   20. JRJoe Rogan31:28

       Wow. What is the-

   21. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson31:29

       And Mars-

   22. JRJoe Rogan31:30

       ... atmospheric pressure?

   23. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson31:30

       Mars is very close to the triple point of water. So you can have, you can have a simultaneous bath in c- c- certain regions of Mars, a simultaneous bath... Because the air pressure is so low, it's like 1/100th Earth's air pressure. It's very, very low. So you have a place where a, a pot of water, ice cubes, and steam are coming out all at once. It's at the triple point.

   24. JRJoe Rogan31:57

       So-

   25. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson31:57

       So, so here's a... The, the, the lesson here is, we live life in our world at one atmospheric pressure, at one, um, uh, uh, uh... Room temperature atmospheric pressure, and we define what is normal based on that life experience, based on how s- how our senses interact with that environment. But the actual universe is far freakier than what we... Than what our senses are exposed, our five senses are exposed to on Earth.

   26. JRJoe Rogan32:32

       What did you think about Elon Musk's idea about nuking the poles of Mars in order to make it warmer?

   27. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson32:39

       Yeah, so some of these are-

   28. JRJoe Rogan32:40

       (laughs)

   29. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson32:40

       ... kind of pie-in-the-sky ideas.

   30. JRJoe Rogan32:41

       Right.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   So specifically these things…

   1. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson45:00

      it's sacred in a, in terms of a pathway to knowing and understanding who and what we are in this universe. We place great value on that. So, but it's not our land. It's w- you know, it was a- (laughs)

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:14

      So specifically these things have to take place-

   3. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson45:16

      Europeans didn't come to Hawaii and find, find legions of scientists there conducting experiments. Okay? They found native peoples governing themselves. So, so, so that's that. The consequence, if it gets voted down and that's permanent and there's no way around that, that telescope is still gonna be built. It just won't be built in Hawaii.

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:37

      Well, where will it be built?

   5. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson45:38

      The-

   6. JRJoe Rogan45:38

      Don't they have to be built on mountaintops?

   7. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson45:40

      Yeah, so they're on the mountaintops.

   8. JRJoe Rogan45:41

      It's an elevation issue, right?

   9. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson45:41

      Yeah, you wanna be above, mm, you know, sm- schmutzi clouds and haze and, and, eh, you want a dry environment so there's less rain.

   10. JRJoe Rogan45:50

       I went to the Keck.

   11. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson45:51

       Fewer clouds. Oh, you visited?

   12. JRJoe Rogan45:52

       Yeah.

   13. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson45:53

       Very good.

   14. JRJoe Rogan45:53

       I went to the Keck, uh, more than 10 years ago the first time and it was... I got very fortunate. It was a night where the moon was not out-

   15. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson46:02

       Yes.

   16. JRJoe Rogan46:03

       And it was-

   17. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson46:03

       Moon is not the, the astronomer's favorite thing.

   18. JRJoe Rogan46:06

       We were-

   19. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson46:06

       Yeah, you want the darkest sky you can.

   20. JRJoe Rogan46:08

       We were worried as we were driving up there that it was really cloudy, but we drove through the clouds.

   21. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson46:13

       Yep.

   22. JRJoe Rogan46:13

       And we got to the top and we got to the observatory and it was the most amazing, without telescopes, just, we, there was telescopes there, but without telescopes. It was the most amazing view of the sky I'd ever seen in my life and it changed my perspective of our place in the universe.

   23. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson46:29

       This is what we do.

   24. JRJoe Rogan46:30

       It looked like we were on a spaceship, like we were flying through the universe because of the diffused lighting in, on the big island, 'cause it's all set up so that it doesn't ruin what they're trying to accomplish at the Keck.

   25. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson46:42

       Correct. Mm-hmm.

   26. JRJoe Rogan46:42

       When you're up there-

   27. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson46:42

       Minimize reflections in the wrong place.

   28. JRJoe Rogan46:44

       It's amazing.

   29. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson46:45

       Not only that, if there was a moon out and you did ascend up through the clouds, the moonlight illuminates the clouds and you are an island in the middle of white cotton.

   30. JRJoe Rogan46:57

       Yeah.
5. 1:00:00 – 1:15:00

   Jesus? Can I get…

   1. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:00:00

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:00

      Jesus? Can I get a bottle of Jesus' pee?

   3. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:00:02

      I'm trying to get my, my Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure list going here, okay? (laughs)

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:07

      (laughs)

   5. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:00:07

      You just ruined it.

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:08

      Sorry.

   7. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:00:08

      But yes, Jesus would be included in that, so would, uh, Socrates, yes. So that is the e- sa... By the way, the same is true with breaths of air. There are more molecules of air in every breath you take than there are breaths of air in all the atmosphere of the Earth. So when you exhale, there's enough of those molecules to scatter, and the, the, the, the air currents will do this, to scatter into every breath of air that is inhaled. So when you take a breath of air, you have molecules of air that went through the lungs of Jesus-We're all connected and there's no way around it.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:00:49

      And the water that we have is the water that we have, right? We drink it, we pee it-

   9. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:00:54

      Yeah.

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:00:54

       ... it goes to the atmosphere-

   11. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:00:55

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:00:55

       ... it comes down as rain.

   13. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:00:56

       Yeah. And the rain is, is, though an important difference is, a lot, most of the water on Earth is saltwater that you can't drink.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:01:03

       Right.

   15. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:01:03

       And there's a limited amount that's freshwater.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:01:05

       How much of a boom to society-

   17. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:01:06

       By the way, all the glaciers are freshwater 'cause that's, it's frozen rain.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:01:09

       Right.

   19. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:01:10

       Frozen rain. Here's something that no one talks about. When the glaciers melt, where does the water go? Where does it go? Just tell me. You know the answer, just...

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:01:21

       Into the ocean?

   21. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:01:22

       Back in the ocean. Okay. So, but this is now non-salty water going into the ocean. So you're mixing freshwater with brackish water, and they occupy different places in the vertical profile of the ocean. And because saltwater is heavier than freshwater, so the freshwater occupies the top.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:01:42

       Right.

   23. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:01:42

       But it's not as salty as the water at the below. And there are circulations in the ocean, not only up and down, you know, northern latitude, southern latitude, like the Gulf Stream, there's also circulation top to bottom. And the combinations of all these circulations create the stability of the ocean. If you disrupt that, oh my gosh. There are animal, fishes, that can't live anymore where they used to be because the salt level is different. And so some animals might go extinct. Some weather patterns will change because the ocean affects climate. So these are, this is why climate modeling is so critical yet so complicated, just because there are a lot of variables that show up.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:02:27

       Why can't we take the salt out of the water?

   25. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:02:29

       You can, it just takes energy. You can do it.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:02:31

       But why, but why isn't that been, being done on a large scale?

   27. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:02:33

       You can't, you have to ask, who, who, who's paying for the energy? Where you getting the energy from? It's an energy thing.

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:02:38

       But I would think that would be very valuable. I mean, think about how many people buy bottles of water.

   29. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:02:41

       It's not valuable enough yet. That's the point.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:02:44

       Well, is it that? Or is it that it's-
6. 1:15:00 – 1:17:51

   Before there were cars,…

   1. JRJoe Rogan1:15:00

      a society, make it easier for people to get where they wanna go? Well, we all chip in and we make roads. It's not entirely dependent on how many people make cars.

   2. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:15:06

      Before there were cars, nobody's thinking, "You know, I wanna go to Chicago tomorrow and I'll be back on Thursday." No one is even having that thought.

   3. JRJoe Rogan1:15:13

      Before there were email, no one was thinking, "I'm gonna send you an email."

   4. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:15:15

      No, the... Right. Th- these are not thoughts. So I'm just talking about all the forces that had to align to make it actually work.

   5. JRJoe Rogan1:15:22

      I understand.

   6. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:15:22

      Okay? So now, what's holding back electric cars? Well, I might not be able to charge it. It takes a little too long to charge compared to my other vehicle. Are there enough chargers along the way? Well, these were questions that were asked when people got cars. If I have cars and it takes gas, is there a gas station? Oh, Standard Oil says, "We'll put a gas station there."

   7. JRJoe Rogan1:15:41

      Right.

   8. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:15:41

      Because you're buying cars. And so it's a whole family of businesses coming together, and you're paying for a big part of that. It's not just the car. You paid for the roads. That's all I'm saying. And I'm not complaining about it, I'm just describing it as a reality.

   9. JRJoe Rogan1:15:59

      I get it. I just didn't understand the, the comparison to car manufacturers paying for it, that they sell to somebody-

   10. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:16:04

       If I make a car and I want you to buy my car, I need a road. So I'm gonna build the road. Oh, wait a minute, I convince you to build the road. That's even better. Oh my gosh, I made it a national priority. Oh, it's a security problem. We need a, we need a military design interstate system. That's what the interstate s- it's military. Y- that's why it goes through mountains instead of over them. That's why there are long stretches of straightaway so you can land an airplane on it. That's why they're built above the road. That's why they... Surface roads are not the same thing as highways, 'cause the highways are not on the surface. Why? 'Cause they're built up. Why? 'Cause tanks can drive on them without decomposing the road. What specs did we put this to? To the Autobahn. The Germans invented the modern highway system. They invented the clover leaf. They invented the off-ramps. They invented all of that. And their armies could move on their roads like it was nobody's business. And Eisenhower said, "Hey, we want get me some of that." He comes... Uh, that's probably not how he said it, I'm guessing. But he comes home, convinces us all that we need to build an interstate. I got nothing against the interstate system. I'm just giving you the foundational facts for it. And by the way, the interstate system costs as much as going to the Moon. About $100 billion in total cost.

   11. JRJoe Rogan1:17:16

       It seems like a bargain compared to how many people use it versus how many people-

   12. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:17:18

       Yeah, it's huge.

   13. JRJoe Rogan1:17:19

       ... want the Moon.

   14. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:17:19

       And it, it grows the economy. It has a lot of, a lot of, um... But basically it was sold as a, as, as a security need. Because if you're at war, you need to move materiel and personnel, and you might have to land an airplane, um, uh, in an emergency way. And so, all freeways do this. If you're gonna crash a plane, do it on a freeway.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:17:41

       Happens.

   16. NTNeil deGrasse Tyson1:17:42

       Yeah. But do it, 'cause you might land safely. And if you don't land safely, the road comes to you to get to the hospital. Don't crash in a forest.

Episode duration: 2:20:43