EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,003 words- 0:00 – 15:00
Here we go. On…
- JRJoe Rogan
Here we go. On three, two, one. (claps) Rick Baker, ladies and gentlemen.
- RBRick Baker
Hey.
- JRJoe Rogan
How are you, sir?
- RBRick Baker
Hey, I'm great, Joe. Everybody's been saying on my Instagram I should do this, uh, podcast for ages, so.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, I'm glad they listened or you listened-
- RBRick Baker
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... rather. I've, I've been a fan of yours forever, man. I was a huge Star Wars fan when I was a kid and you inspired me. When I was young, I really wanted to be a makeup artist. I wanted to do special effects and the kind of stuff that you do.
- RBRick Baker
Oh, I had no idea.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) Yeah, man. Um, uh, I think it was probably Star Wars that kicked it off for me 'cause I, like many kids... A l- a lot of people today, y- you know, we're so removed with first VHS and then DVDs and laser discs and now streaming, it's so easy to watch movies. But when Star Wars came out, we would go see it over and over and over again. It was like a little contest between a lot of the kids that I went to school with.
- RBRick Baker
Uh-huh.
- JRJoe Rogan
I think I saw it 13 times-
- RBRick Baker
Wow.
- JRJoe Rogan
... while it was out in the movie theater.
- RBRick Baker
Wow.
- JRJoe Rogan
But I became fascinated... I've always been fascinated with comic books. I always wanted to be a comic book illustrator. And I, I always loved, like, uh, l- like those fantasy novels, like, creepy and eerie-
- RBRick Baker
Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... you know, those, uh, those ill- graphic novels. But I really became fascinated with special effects and, um, particularly makeup after your work.
- RBRick Baker
Uh, well, you know, it was kind of the same thing for me. I mean, I, you know, I, I grew up in... I was born in 1950, you know, I grew up in front of a TV, but it was a little black and white one, you know, and, and, uh, there was always the monster movies on Saturdays, you know, and/or Sundays. And that, that just stuff just hit a chord with me and I just said, "I have to do this," you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
When did you... What was the first thing that you did?
- RBRick Baker
First, first ever makeup kind of thing I did?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RBRick Baker
Well, I mean, uh, you know, I was... I'm an only child. Uh, my mom wasn't supposed to have kids 'cause she had a bad heart and stuff. And, and, uh, but they wanted children. And, and, uh, but I was very shy. I, I'm, I stayed in my bedroom, I couldn't talk to an adult and stuff like that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RBRick Baker
And the very s- first thing I, you know, I, I got interested in makeup and I got some just white grease paint and black grease paint and smeared it on my face. And just with a layer of grease paint on my face when I was looking in the mirror, it wasn't, wasn't little Ricky Baker anymore. And I could do things that I couldn't do without this shit smeared on my face, you know? (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- RBRick Baker
And, uh, it just, it, it helped me overcome my shyness. But, I mean, it, it started with that. But, I mean, I, I... but I was, I wanted to do something more, you know, so I ended up making... I made my first mask, I think, when I was 13. Um, and it was, uh, Curse of Frankenstein, uh, Frankenstein. And I did that one mainly because I thought I could copy that one (laughs) and make it look close enough-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RBRick Baker
... 'cause it's, it's, uh, uh, there's some crudeness to that makeup. I've, uh, actually, at first didn't like it, but I, I like it now, you know. And, I mean, it's, uh, when you find out how the film industry works and, and poor Philip Leakey, who did that makeup, had, like, a week to prep, you know, and, and no money, so, it, I, I forgive some of the faults with it.
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it's cra- when you stop and think about the earliest versions of s- m- makeup in movies, like special effect style makeup in movies, you know, you go back to, like, Nosferatu is probably one of the very earliest, right? I mean, they really didn't have anything to go with. There wasn't anything to copy.
- RBRick Baker
Yeah.
- 15:00 – 30:00
Ah. …
- RBRick Baker
over and sit down with us," you know. We started talking, and I go, "What are you doing here?" And- and, you know, he was obviously like an American, and he goes, "I have a film here," you know, and it was Reservoir Dogs.
- JRJoe Rogan
Ah.
- RBRick Baker
And- and we went to see it, and I actually left in the scene where they're torturing the cop. It's funny, people think I like gory- gory stuff, you know-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RBRick Baker
... 'cause I've done it in films, but real stuff, and if it's really intensely done on a film like that was-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RBRick Baker
I mean, I thought he was gonna let this guy- light this guy on fire, that... He's- where he's got the cop in a chair at one point, and I said, "I can't. I don't wanna see this." So I left and so did Wes Craven.
- JRJoe Rogan
What?
- RBRick Baker
And yeah, and we went, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RBRick Baker
And he got so jazzed by that, you know. Uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
That he got you guys to get out of there?
- RBRick Baker
He goes, "Wes Craven couldn't take my movie and Rick Baker couldn't take my movie. It's so cool." You know (laughs) , you know, but, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) That's awesome.
- RBRick Baker
Oh, no. It was- it was... And that was a great thing. I mean, like I said, I- uh, this was my introduction to Peter, uh, Peter Jackson, and we became fast friends. We kind of had the same background. And it's like you- l- what you said to me about wanting to be a makeup artist and being those things. I know so many people like that, you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RBRick Baker
Uh, you know, Danny Elfman was- said that to me.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, really?
- RBRick Baker
Yeah. Uh, John Fogerty likes that- like that's-
- JRJoe Rogan
John Fogerty?
- RBRick Baker
Yeah, you know. He's like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, wow.
- RBRick Baker
I don't know that he wanted to be a makeup artist, but he really likes- liked that stuff, you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, yeah.
- RBRick Baker
Um, uh, Slash, you know, a lot of th- a lot of these different people, you know, and they went into rock and roll instead of that, you know. And, um, but, you know, I- I never veered off that path. I mean, from- uh, from age 10, this is what I wanted to do, and I didn't have a plan B. And fortunately, it worked because I- I grew up very lower middle class. And I wasn't in the- didn't know anybody in the film industry, you know. And when I finally met somebody, I was, um, 13, uh, and Universal Studios just started their tours. And I talked my parents, they said, "You know, you're gonna be a teenager. It's a special birthday. You know, what can we do?" You know. And I said, uh, "Can we go to Universal, on the Universal tour?" You know, and in my head, I was gonna hop off the tram and run into the makeup department and they were gonna hire me, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RBRick Baker
And, but on the way, I knew that, um... Are you familiar with Don Post's masks, the Don Post Studios? They did the Universal Classic Monster Masks that were in the back of Famous Monsters and stuff.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- RBRick Baker
Uh, but they did these really high-quality masks that were like 35 dollars in the 60s, which was way beyond anything I could ever afford.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- 30:00 – 45:00
Wow. …
- RBRick Baker
said, "Start tomorrow." Uh, got paid minimum wage which I think was, you know, $1.25 or something at the time. But that place was like a magnet for any weird kid or any guy that was like a stop-motion fan. Any stop-motion person would show up there at one point or another and I met this guy named Doug Beswick who was a few years older than me.... and we became, again, fast friends. You know, he read Famous Monsters. He was a Ray Harryhausen fan. And Doug, uh, when I did this uh, this uh, Octoman film, Doug had a, uh, a little workshop and we did it in his workshop, and we did it together.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- RBRick Baker
But yeah, it was a... Uh, and- and it was a real introduction to the film industry because it was the very first days filming, I'm filming in Gr- in Bronson Canyon, Griffith Park. Uh, we show up, we went in Doug's 57 Chevy, it had Octoman in the backseat, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RBRick Baker
And, and we show up there, uh, and looking around and there's nobody there. And I go, "What the hell?" You know? So, and this is, you know, before cellphones and all that shit. Uh, so we'd have to go, we went back down the hill, uh, down Bronson Canyon to, like there was a market there and we got a payphone, called the production office and it was like, "Oh yeah, uh, we pushed one day. We just forgot to tell you," you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RBRick Baker
And it's like a movie called The Octoman, you forgot to tell the people who were making The Octoman, the title character of the movie, that you weren't filming? (laughs) You know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes. (laughs)
- RBRick Baker
And it was also... I mean, they-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's a perfect introduction to the movie industry, though.
- RBRick Baker
Oh, it was. And- and I learned that- that, you know, you can't believe anything they tell you. You know?
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RBRick Baker
I mean, the- it was designed by somebody else and, uh, I got this job handed down through people I met at Clohies. Uh, it was gonna be stop motion at one point. They decided that that was too expensive, they're gonna make a suit. And the first thing I did was a little maquette. And, uh, um-
- JRJoe Rogan
A little what?
- RBRick Baker
Maquette. A sc- uh, a small sculpture of the design. But I said there's... Because he had, they- they tried to figure out how they could do eight tentacles on a man, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- RBRick Baker
And his feet kind of like turned into tentacles, and it kind of split off in- into a back tentacle. But I said, "I think they look like elf shoes." And it-
- JRJoe Rogan
Ah.
- RBRick Baker
... and it's not a good f- way for me to join the two things together. And, and it's like, "Kid, don't worry about it. There's only gonna be one shot of The Octoman in the movie where you actually see it. The rest of the time he's just gonna be a shadow or a glimpse, you know? But we'll have a money shot where you can, you know, make sure it looks great." (laughs) And the movie starts out with a closeup of his feet, you know? Basically, you know.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RBRick Baker
Uh, and- and, you know, it was, uh, it was a real introduction. I- I thought it was gonna be like working on eight millimeter, millimeter movies like I did as a kid.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RBRick Baker
You know, everybody just jumps in and we're, "We're making a movie, let's do it." You know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RBRick Baker
Yeah. It wasn't that. And the DP, the director of photography, because I had long hair and Doug had long hair, he called us the girls. This was at a time when, you know, long hair was-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, right.
- RBRick Baker
You know, "Get the girls to get their silly monster suit out," and you know... (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, right.
- RBRick Baker
Uh, but we, there was a, uh, if you can believe this, there's... Uh, uh, The Octoman was written by the guy that, was the writer of Creature from the Black Lagoon, and he also wrote, uh, It Came from Outer Space.
- JRJoe Rogan
Ah.
- 45:00 – 1:00:00
Right. …
- RBRick Baker
the whole sequence, and that's a different fake hand there. That's a second one.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RBRick Baker
And that's another one there. It's got syringes in it that we pump, and now he's wearing an appliance hand that matches that, see? Um, and we storyboarded the whole sequence and, as you saw when David first took off his clothes, he's not very hairy.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- RBRick Baker
And I said, "For me to, to glue a little bit of hair on," and then we'd do him a little hairier and a little hairier, "I- it's better for us to work in reverse. Let me do him at the hairiest first and I'll pull hair off and trim it."
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- RBRick Baker
And-
- JRJoe Rogan
Interesting.
- RBRick Baker
Yeah. But we boarded the whole thing out, so... And this hair growing was reverse, uh, I, I punched hair through rubber and then pulled it through and we ver- reversed printed it so it looked like it was growing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh.
- RBRick Baker
This is a whole fake back again with things coming out of it. That's a-
- JRJoe Rogan
So you punched hair through rubber and pulled it through?
- RBRick Baker
Yeah, like this.
- JRJoe Rogan
And then reversed it?
- RBRick Baker
So then it grows out like that, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh. Wow.
- RBRick Baker
Um, but what I, w- we thought what would be the most impactful thing would be for his face to change last, but what I don't like about the transformation, like here, the wolf has a big mane of hair so he's got this big m- hairy neck that I don't like-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RBRick Baker
... you know? And it's, uh, you know, uh, and that's... David doesn't have lenses in his eyes, they're just red from (laughs) ... That was a 10-hour day-
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- RBRick Baker
... of makeup. Uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
So just exhausted-
- RBRick Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and with makeup on?
- RBRick Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
This was incredible, man. That's crazy that he doesn't have any eyes, he doesn't have anything in his eyes.
- RBRick Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's just his eyes.
- RBRick Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Holy shit.
- 1:00:00 – 1:02:07
Yeah. …
- JRJoe Rogan
conglomeration of cool characters-
- RBRick Baker
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... all in one bar. And you, you know, at the time, I mean, it was a completely un- unique and new thing, this-
- RBRick Baker
Oh, yeah. And, but after that, every movie, every space movie had a cantina scene, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RBRick Baker
And, and, uh, and, uh, it's like American Werewolf too. Every transformation after American Werewolf was basically the same transformation.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RBRick Baker
You know, they did the same things, you know? Uh, and it happened on Thriller too. You know, I mean, I, because of American Werewolf, when, uh ...... Michael came to, uh, John Landis to do Thriller, you know. He'd liked American Werewolf and he wanted to do, um... He, he wanted it to be a short film. He di- didn't want to call it a music video.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RBRick Baker
And John contacted me and, and said, you know, "Uh, Michael Jackson wants to do this American Werewolf, like, music video," you know, and for the song Thriller, which I hadn't heard. And I was like, you know, "Michael Jackson? Little Michael Jackson in the Jackson 5?" "Yeah." You know, he's not called that anymore, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RBRick Baker
Uh, and so he goes... John says, "I'll send you a cassette. Uh, listen to it and get some ideas." You know, so I... And this was when we had little Walkman, you know? (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- RBRick Baker
And I'd listen to it with one, and I had another one that I would like, like pre-associate ideas when I was listening, you know? And, and, uh, and, uh, it was like... There's... I thought... Well, these... We came up with the idea of doing these zombie dancers.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- RBRick Baker
And, and I said, "Well, you know, I'm sure you're gonna hire the dancers way in advance so they can learn the dance and stuff." And he goes, "No, they, they, they're, they only need like a couple of days." So they hired them like three days before we filmed and I went, "I can't... That doesn't give me time to take life masks and do all the stuff that I would do. And these zombies should be really cool," you know? So I said, "How about if the first zombies you see are like me and my crew? Because we already have life masks. We can start those today, and we can spend the time on making some cool ones." So I'm in Thriller coming out of a crypt like this, you know?
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- RBRick Baker
And (laughs) and all my crew basically are the first guys that come out of the ground-
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- RBRick Baker
... and break through windows. But the dancers, I said, "I'll figure out a way we can do them," and I... 'Cause I had a number of life masks of different people in small/medium and large male, small/medium and large female, and we sculpted... Uh, we kept pieces. We called them like bandit masks. They were kind of like this around this area, like a... Well, a bandit in a, in a m- movie, yeah.
Episode duration: 1:54:48
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