Joe Rogan Experience #1380 - Pete Dominick

1. 0:00 – 2:45

   Pete’s SiriusXM exit: abrupt ending, lost audience access, and why metrics stay hidden

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:00

      ... three, two. Uh, uh. (claps) Hello, Pete Domick. How are you, buddy?

   2. PDPete Dominick0:05

      Hey, Joe Rogan.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Good to see you, man.

   4. PDPete Dominick0:06

      Good to see you. Psyched to be here. Psyched to be in California, and psyched to be sitting across from you.

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:10

      Psyched to have you. You're, you're a free man now.

   6. PDPete Dominick0:12

      I'm a, I'm-

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:13

      You've escaped yourself-

   8. PDPete Dominick0:14

      (laughs)

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:14

      ... from the, the shackles of, uh, satellite radio.

   10. PDPete Dominick0:17

       The sha- the shackles of corporate media.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:19

       Yeah, man. That's, uh, see, that's the thing about dedicating so much time to a company like that, they can just (snaps fingers) get rid of you, and then you don't have a connection to all those fans. You have to reestablish a connection.

   12. PDPete Dominick0:30

       It's been an amazing experience in the last, what, four weeks since it happened to try to... First of all, I watched my funeral play out publicly, 'cause I had a huge community of listeners for 12 years that I created-

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:40

       Right.

   14. PDPete Dominick0:40

       ... that I was trying to respond to all of them, and I, you know, you can't say. I still can't share, like, certain details, right? And-

   15. JRJoe Rogan0:46

       How much time did they give you before the show was ended?

   16. PDPete Dominick0:50

       The sh- the show basically, they told me after the show that, uh, that it was the last show, and then they let me have, like, a, uh... They said I could do a last show, but instead, I was just like, "Let me just record a message. I don't wanna, I don't wanna go-"

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:02

       So you didn't know until the day of?

   18. PDPete Dominick1:05

       I had a pretty good idea. I had a pretty good idea.

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:08

       Do they have ratings? Like do they-

   20. PDPete Dominick1:10

       I don't think so. If they did, I think I'd probably be in pretty good shape. I mean, like, it's a long story, but the show I was doing was pretty special. Like it was really helping people, and we were enlightening. It's kind of like what you do here. I mean, that's why I love what you do here. You people learn. They, uh, they get enlightened, they get entertained, they, uh... Uh, you make people a better, better people through this show. The, the contribution in, that you make, that's what I was doing. We worked three hours every day talking about issues, talking about, uh, struggles that people are having, and it was rewarding and challenging and satisfying, and I had total editorial control, so you know, I can't, I really can't complain. Twelve years is pretty-

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:48

       Do they know, though, how many people are listening to any given show?

   22. PDPete Dominick1:51

       Not that I ever know. Not that I ever know.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:52

       Not that you ever know.

   24. PDPete Dominick1:53

       Not that it was ever shown to me, and-

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:54

       See, that is a weird thing. That's a thing that you have with Netflix as well. You know, like if you do a special with Netflix, and, and-

   26. PDPete Dominick2:03

       Yeah.

   27. JRJoe Rogan2:03

       ... they go, uh, "We really like it. It's great." And they-

   28. PDPete Dominick2:05

       But they don't share it with you.

   29. JRJoe Rogan2:06

       Yeah, and you go, "Well, how are the ratings?" They go, "We're really happy." "Well, what does that mean?" "We're really, really happy."

   30. PDPete Dominick2:11

       (laughs) Yeah, that's like, that's like when you first started doing comedy and, and you came off stage and your friends were like, "You looked confident."
2. 2:45 – 5:45

   Going independent: podcasts, networks, and the value of owning your distribution

   1. PDPete Dominick2:45

      Yeah. And by that I mean, the best thing about being fired is you don't have to worry about being fired.

   2. JRJoe Rogan2:49

      Yes.

   3. PDPete Dominick2:49

      And so you can do your own thing, and increasingly, I think people are taking advantage of that. Like you, y- y- if you're a network, you have to have a million people listening or watching to keep the ratings up to sell advertising, and you're only making just so much money. If you launch your own thing the way you have and so many other people have, you're gambling with everything, which is what I'm doing now with, with podcasting, which is really an original thing to do, and, uh, a very difficult way to make money, but if you do, if you're good, then you control it all.

   4. JRJoe Rogan3:20

      Yeah, you can do it. It's like, if you've done a serious show and you developed an audience, and that's something you definitely did do.

   5. PDPete Dominick3:26

      Three hours live every day, yeah.

   6. JRJoe Rogan3:28

      You can, you can definitely do the same thing on a podcast. You just have to-

   7. PDPete Dominick3:31

      I hope you're right.

   8. JRJoe Rogan3:31

      No, you can. It's like-

   9. PDPete Dominick3:33

      My family's relying on it.

   10. JRJoe Rogan3:34

       ... it's 100%.

   11. PDPete Dominick3:35

       (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan3:35

       Well, you have comedy too.

   13. PDPete Dominick3:36

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan3:36

       But it's, you, you absolutely can do it, and it's just one of those things where I see people doing the corporate route, and I'm like, "Man, I get how you needed to do that 15 years ago. You don't need to do that now. That's, that's a bad decision now." Where it was a good deci- like, hey, you got a serious gig 15 years ago. They're like-

   15. PDPete Dominick3:54

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan3:54

       ... "Wow, that's awesome."

   17. PDPete Dominick3:55

       Yeah. I think you're absolutely right. It's just, it's terrifying. You know?

   18. JRJoe Rogan3:58

       Mm-hmm.

   19. PDPete Dominick3:58

       It's always ev- there's always pros and cons. You work for a company no matter what you do. You're working for someone. You have a place to go. They control all of the, uh, in, in, in our case, in media's case, the, the promotion, the marketing, the legal.

   20. JRJoe Rogan4:10

       Mm-hmm. Yeah.

   21. PDPete Dominick4:10

       They hire producers to work for you and so on, and so there's a certain level of comfort there, but at the same time, you gotta answer to these people. You gotta deal with these people, and frankly, you know, you're more talented than a lot of the people that you're working with, and you have all these ideas and these inspirations, and you know, they're either gonna say yes or no to them, and when you're on your own, you just put the wheels on them and go.

   22. JRJoe Rogan4:28

       Yeah. Well, I r- remember last time I went to Sirius offices, went to the, you know, the, the studios. I was upstairs, and I was like, "There's too much money here. This is, this costs too much money." Like, "There's too many people here." There's, uh, you see these fucking people wearing suits. I'm like, "What does that guy do?"

   23. PDPete Dominick4:45

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan4:45

       "I guarantee you he doesn't do fuck all."

   25. PDPete Dominick4:47

       (laughs)

   26. JRJoe Rogan4:47

       "That guy doesn't have anything to do with whether or not this show is any good."

   27. PDPete Dominick4:50

       (laughs)

   28. JRJoe Rogan4:50

       "And all you have to do is press a button and get it out there. So there's all these people making decisions about, 'Well, we got marketing and this and that, and we gotta make sure we hit the right demographic.'" And-

   29. PDPete Dominick4:57

       I feel like that's the way... I've worked at CNN, I worked at MSNBC, I worked at Fox.

   30. JRJoe Rogan5:01

       Mm-hmm.
3. 5:45 – 13:09

   Business bandwidth: agents, managers, and avoiding the trap of self-selling

   1. PDPete Dominick5:45

      I always did everything directly myself.

   2. JRJoe Rogan5:47

      Oh, that's a-

   3. PDPete Dominick5:48

      I could never-

   4. JRJoe Rogan5:48

      ... terrible idea. I could, I could never allow somebody... I never felt like anybody could sell me the way I could sell myself. Oh, dude. Then you have to think about selling yourself-

   5. PDPete Dominick5:55

      Which-

   6. JRJoe Rogan5:55

      ... and you have to th- you can't... It takes any... Uh, the way, this is, I mean, for people listening to this podcast, uh, regularly, I'm sorry. I apologize for repeating myself, but the way I look at everything, and this is something I've done over the last, really cultivated over the last 10 years, but really specifically focused on over the last couple.... is I look at thinking as bandwidth. I only ha- say if you have 100 units of thinking. Whatever the fuck you have to, d- d- y- what you're res- in- of involved in to have this negotiation-

   7. PDPete Dominick6:24

      Yeah.

   8. JRJoe Rogan6:24

      ... to sell yourself to this and sell yourself to that, and talk about this, and, you know, and pitch your ideas to this person and that person, that's taking away time that you could be working on your other shit.

   9. PDPete Dominick6:34

      Creating.

   10. JRJoe Rogan6:35

       I, yeah, I don't have any time for that. I have zero time. I've, I allocate zero bandwidth for selling myself, zero bandwidth for doing other people's shit.

   11. PDPete Dominick6:42

       But have you always d- have you always done that? Did you, were you that way at the start? Because, I mean, you're- you're so big now, I can... And anybody can understand that you can do that.

   12. JRJoe Rogan6:51

       I never ha- sold myself. I always had an agent and a manager.

   13. PDPete Dominick6:54

       Really?

   14. JRJoe Rogan6:54

       I've had the same manager since I was an open mic-er.

   15. PDPete Dominick6:56

       Really?

   16. JRJoe Rogan6:57

       Yeah.

   17. PDPete Dominick6:57

       Who?

   18. JRJoe Rogan6:57

       Jeff Sussman.

   19. PDPete Dominick6:58

       Oh, wow. I know Jeff Sussman.

   20. JRJoe Rogan7:00

       Yeah, yeah.

   21. PDPete Dominick7:00

       Yeah, wow. Huh, that's awesome. That's-

   22. JRJoe Rogan7:03

       Yeah.

   23. PDPete Dominick7:03

       You're a loyal guy too.

   24. JRJoe Rogan7:04

       Well, he's awesome, and, you know, w- he's family. We- we've been together since ni- what, 1990-

   25. PDPete Dominick7:11

       Yeah, I feel that way about my agent too.

   26. JRJoe Rogan7:13

       One?

   27. PDPete Dominick7:13

       But I just, like-

   28. JRJoe Rogan7:14

       Yeah.

   29. PDPete Dominick7:15

       ... Conan Smith. He's a gr- like, one of the few guys I met in this business that I really always liked, and he didn't seem like he was part of this business. But he'd always be like, "What's next?"

   30. JRJoe Rogan7:24

       Yeah.
4. 13:09 – 28:52

   From radio format to long-form: callers, live interaction, and why in-person interviews win

   1. PDPete Dominick13:09

      What's interesting is going... I'm really curious to see what you think, but going from live radio and constant interaction with callers, which I love. You know, I'm a-

   2. JRJoe Rogan13:18

      You can do that.

   3. PDPete Dominick13:18

      ... I'm a... y- y- to podcasting and just being there alone with the mic, and, you know, again-

   4. JRJoe Rogan13:25

      B- but... No, you can do that. You can have live callers-

   5. PDPete Dominick13:27

      I'm told I can. I'm told I can go live. I haven't-

   6. JRJoe Rogan13:29

      Yeah.

   7. PDPete Dominick13:29

      ... figured it out yet on what the... Uh-

   8. JRJoe Rogan13:30

      No, you can definitely-

   9. PDPete Dominick13:30

      I got a great group of people that are working with me. Amazing people have come out of the cr-... The greatest thing has been how people have shown up. Like, people from my life, like, 15 years ago, 20 years ago. Phone just ringing, texts coming in, no having talked to you, and saying kind of just what you're saying. "You're better off." You're g- y- w- you know, one door closes, but more importantly, just people talking about how you changed their life and how they can't wait to see what you do next is an amazing, amazing feeling. Like, if you, if you do that with one person, your cup is full.

   10. JRJoe Rogan13:59

       Yeah.

   11. PDPete Dominick13:59

       To have an audience of people doing that for 12 years, it's overwhelming joy and satisfaction to be able to look at my daughters and be like, uh- uh, no matter what happens next, what I, what I got to do there and what I did do there on so many tough issues and, and helped so many people, that's it, man. I could die-

   12. JRJoe Rogan14:16

       But that's great.

   13. PDPete Dominick14:16

       I could, I could die right now and be happy.

   14. JRJoe Rogan14:19

       Well, don't die. Don't die.

   15. PDPete Dominick14:19

       It would be good for me-

   16. JRJoe Rogan14:20

       You listen, you got-

   17. PDPete Dominick14:20

       ... to do it on the show, though.

   18. JRJoe Rogan14:21

       ... a nice... You, you have a nice past, which is wonderful, but the thing about scary things and the thing about this is that it's an opportunity for growth. It's an opportunity to do something. It's an opportunity to stretch your wings, to really take a chance, and that's how you grow.

   19. PDPete Dominick14:37

       And I, I appreciate you saying that, and I'm on that same wavelength, and I'm a guy who, who thrives in these situations. Like, I've, I've taken advantage of every room I've been in. I've never been the best comic, the best... I've never been the best at anything, but I've always been gritty. I've always worked as hard, if not harder than anybody. And now, it's interesting because I've never been i- in this type of situation with a family. You know, that's different, when you're single and you're young.

   20. JRJoe Rogan15:03

       Right, right.

   21. PDPete Dominick15:04

       But I was working that hard and making no excuses, and back then, doing no drugs, not drinking, everything... It was just about my career and being a good person. I thought if I was a good person, that mattered. And to come to find out being a good person was the best form of currency. Everybody competing and trying to kill other people in our business or in any other business, to me, I have no interest in that and no attraction to those people. All I wanted to do is help people, not think... just for purposes of altruism, not to be virtuous, just because... same reason you are. Being kind is, is the way to be. Not putting a knife in someone's back. And when the show ended, it was amazing 'cause people started tweeting things that I had done that I never w- was... thought would become public. They were private things. They weren't for... And it was just, like, days and days of people... You know, I did... I used to do a segment every week called Stand Up with a Veteran for veterans, and, like, this veterans' community came out strong. They're like, "What? They let you go. You did so much for us." And I was like-

   22. JRJoe Rogan16:05

       Well, I think it's a dying company. I don't think you should dwell on all this. I mean, it's just a dying company, and now you have an opportunity. I mean, it's great that you did all these good things. It's great.

   23. PDPete Dominick16:13

       I hope... I, I don't mean to sound negative. I don't mean to sound like I'm dwelling on it. I'm, I mean to say it was an amazing experience that was afforded to me. I leveraged it, I took advantage of it. I'm really excited. Every day I wake up now, just ideas, ideas, ideas, hammering, phone calls-

   24. JRJoe Rogan16:28

       While the show... While you were doing the show, were you under any sort of exclusive thing where you couldn't do anything on the internet?

   25. PDPete Dominick16:32

       Right. Right.

   26. JRJoe Rogan16:33

       You were?

   27. PDPete Dominick16:34

       Yeah.

   28. JRJoe Rogan16:34

       Okay.

   29. PDPete Dominick16:34

       I mean, yeah, pretty much. You c- we couldn't do a podcast.

   30. JRJoe Rogan16:37

       You couldn't?
5. 28:52 – 37:26

   Cable news incentives: manufactured conflict, soundbites, and the ‘authority’ illusion

   1. PDPete Dominick28:52

      Right. And that's, you have to be able to change your cadence, your diction, and your commentary. And you have to be able to get questions that are more thoughtful. Anyway, that's the thing about all these cable news interviewers and network, like, they always want to get some headline.

   2. JRJoe Rogan29:06

      Yeah.

   3. PDPete Dominick29:06

      And that's the other thing, you know, about corporate media too. They want you so... I've been in that belly of that beast, Joe, for the last 15 years.

   4. JRJoe Rogan29:12

      Right.

   5. PDPete Dominick29:12

      Corporate, you know, political media. And it's so manufactured.

   6. JRJoe Rogan29:18

      Right.

   7. PDPete Dominick29:18

      I could tell you so many stories. They call you up and they say, you know, "How do you feel about anything? We want to make sure that you're completely the opposite of the other panelists and so that you have a really robust argument." And it's like, not everything is binary. Most things aren't. There's a ton of nuance, a ton of gradation. We don't have to hate each other. That, that, that's how they get ratings. That's how they sell advertising. I blame most of the problems in our country on corporate media, terrestrial radio, just doing that format all day. It works really well for conservatives, not as well for liberals, but it still works. And they sell ads and every, a few people make a lot of money, but the country suffers. The, the idea that we're so divided is such bullshit. I talk to people from all over the country, travel all over the place. I understand the issues really intimately. And I don't care what you think about anything. There's something you have to offer me. There's something you have to make my life to enrich me. I don't care what you believe on abortion or guns or certain things, because if you can teach me how to fix this engine, I'm into it. I'm gonna learn how to do it. If you can teach me how to exercise better, but you don't like our trade policies, I don't give a shit what you think about our trade policies. Let's just not even talk about it. Let's talk about the things. And it's...... y- y- y- trying to get to the bo- the- the root of somebody's soul is what we should all be trying to do. The- the- every day, we should try to, "What- what happened to you that made you think this way? What is the experience? What is your journey?" To me, that's the fascinating shit about human beings.

   8. JRJoe Rogan30:47

      Well, one of the things about something like cable talk shows or, you know, news shows, or any of these political arenas is that there's a- a lack of real interaction with the general public in terms of like real- real conversations with people. You- you have a host who's wearing makeup, who's got spotlights on him, and there's a microphone in front of him, and he's talking to these other people, and there's cameras pointed at them. And no one really feels like this is- this is not a norm-

   9. PDPete Dominick31:17

      It's a play.

   10. JRJoe Rogan31:18

       ... but it's not a normal way of people talking.

   11. PDPete Dominick31:21

       No, nobody talks like that.

   12. JRJoe Rogan31:22

       And rarely you see someone sit down and they like... Every now and then they have those shows where like it's a one-on-one, like Trump will sit across from fucking... what's his name? What's that dude's name?

   13. PDPete Dominick31:34

       Which network?

   14. JRJoe Rogan31:34

       It's a Fox guy.

   15. PDPete Dominick31:35

       Hannity?

   16. JRJoe Rogan31:36

       No, the other-

   17. PDPete Dominick31:37

       Dobbs?

   18. JRJoe Rogan31:37

       Dobbs, that guy.

   19. PDPete Dominick31:38

       Yeah.

   20. JRJoe Rogan31:38

       Who's hilarious. It's- it's funny watching the two of them together. It's-

   21. PDPete Dominick31:41

       Oh, I mean, Dobbs is lost his mind.

   22. JRJoe Rogan31:43

       He's just kicking that ass and going like this. (kissing sounds)

   23. PDPete Dominick31:45

       He is all... He is digging way in.

   24. JRJoe Rogan31:47

       He's all in. (kissing sounds)

   25. PDPete Dominick31:48

       But it works. He's making... I used to know... I used to be on with the guy, the- the most pleasant guy in the world. But what he's doing, he is... It's so much... It's a North Korean situation. Lou Dobbs, it's like state media every night. It doesn't matter. You know, he-shall-not-be-questioned kind of guy. Worship the president. It's like, "What are you doing? That's not even..." But- but that's the- the... it's... I once got into this long drawn out argument with Chris Cuomo, who I like a lot, but I was talking to him about, you know, listen man, the difference between TV and radio, it's simple. It's... On radio, you can have a long form, you can have a 20 minute to two-hour conversation and it's real and you get a lot done. On TV you can have a five-minute conversation. I go, there's so many guests that you have on your show that I have on my show, they're- they're way more... They have the ability to be thoughtful and nuanced-

   26. JRJoe Rogan32:32

       Yeah.

   27. PDPete Dominick32:32

       ... and- and make points. They can't do that on cable. And now, you know, he's doing a radio show, so good for him.

   28. JRJoe Rogan32:37

       Well, that's what I was getting at is that this separation between the people and then the just unnatural environment that they're in, no one can relate to it. What they can relate to is two people just talking to each other.

   29. PDPete Dominick32:49

       They can't relate to it, Joe, but they also think because they're conditioned to that if it's on a network, this person must be an authority-

   30. JRJoe Rogan32:57

       Right.
6. 37:26 – 1:06:51

   Pete considers running for Congress: money, corruption pressures, and authenticity risks

   1. PDPete Dominick37:26

      ... it's hard to think about, like, I'm, I was seriously considering running for Congress 'cause I-

   2. JRJoe Rogan37:32

      You were or are?

   3. PDPete Dominick37:33

      I, it's hard right now because I learned some crazy shit.

   4. JRJoe Rogan37:38

      What'd you learn? Dun, dun, dun.

   5. PDPete Dominick37:40

      Uh, first of all-

   6. JRJoe Rogan37:42

      Drum roll, please.

   7. PDPete Dominick37:44

      ... uh, th- the corruption... I live in New York State.

   8. JRJoe Rogan37:47

      Wait a minute, New York State's not corrupt.

   9. PDPete Dominick37:49

      The New York State-

   10. JRJoe Rogan37:50

       Stop the fucking... Stop this show.

   11. PDPete Dominick37:53

       All of, all of, you know, politics-

   12. JRJoe Rogan37:54

       What?

   13. PDPete Dominick37:54

       ... there's levels of corruption, but the N- th- in the New York State Democratic Party, there's always been all kinds of issues. So I be- I met with a whole bunch of really smart people about running for New York 17, which is the district that I live in. Like, the day after I lost my gig at Sirius, the woman who had been representing that district for 33 years announced that she was retiring. And I was like, "Well, I got, I got nothing going on and I've always thought about running for office and l- let me, you know, seriously consider it." I reached out to a whole bunch of people from all different walks of life, congressmen that were in office, that had been out of office, uh, campaign coordinators. I talked to Chris Cuomo. I talked to a whole bunch of people, but there's... (laughs) One person told me that if you wanna, if you wanna win, w- uh, regardless of your party affiliation, uh, you have to... There's a certain, uh, special interest group that you had to promise you wouldn't interfere with and make sure they got an envelope of cash. And I'm like, "Well, I'm not doing that. I will tell everybody and everywhere I go about that."

   14. JRJoe Rogan38:57

       What is it?

   15. PDPete Dominick38:57

       I can't because I don't have a second source, so I wouldn't say it, but wh- I'm trying to get one to prove that it's true.

   16. JRJoe Rogan39:03

       What does it make you... What does it rhyme with?

   17. PDPete Dominick39:04

       Uh, the special interest group?

   18. JRJoe Rogan39:06

       Yes.

   19. PDPete Dominick39:06

       Won't do it 'cause it'll just... Everybody will know. Everybody will know and it's-

   20. JRJoe Rogan39:10

       Come on, bro.

   21. PDPete Dominick39:10

       ... it's, it's dangerous. But the point is, the point is-

   22. JRJoe Rogan39:13

       What's it the, what's the opposite of that special interest group?

   23. PDPete Dominick39:19

       Uh, maybe the private sector?

   24. JRJoe Rogan39:22

       Right, but what would be, like, what, what would be, like-

   25. PDPete Dominick39:25

       I can't. I will tell you if I, if I get-

   26. JRJoe Rogan39:26

       ... what, what would be the thing that they're opposed to?

   27. PDPete Dominick39:27

       What would it be that they're opposed to?

   28. JRJoe Rogan39:29

       Yeah, what, what group?

   29. PDPete Dominick39:29

       You interfering with, you interfering with the way that they run their show.

   30. JRJoe Rogan39:34

       Right, right, right, right.

Episode duration: 3:03:30