EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,003 words- 0:00 – 15:00
Two, one. (clapperboard snaps) Good?…
- JRJoe Rogan
Two, one. (clapperboard snaps) Good? Hello, Daryl.
- DDDaryl Davis
Hey, Joe. How are you doing?
- JRJoe Rogan
My pleasure, for, uh, thank you for being here. Really, really-
- DDDaryl Davis
Uh, pleasure's all mine.
- JRJoe Rogan
... really appreciate it.
- DDDaryl Davis
Thank you.
- JRJoe Rogan
Um, I read your story. Uh, I saw a thing about you on NPR and, uh, it's crazy. You've converted how many people? 200 KKK members? You've got them to drop their robes?
- DDDaryl Davis
Right. Some directly, some indirectly, yes.
- JRJoe Rogan
How did that all happen?
- DDDaryl Davis
Wow. (laughs) Uh, you know, (clears throat) I keep running into these guys. I'm a, I'm a musician by trade.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- DDDaryl Davis
So, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Blues musician, right?
- DDDaryl Davis
Rock and roll, blues, swing, jazz. My degree's in jazz, but hey, I'll, I'll play whatever you want me to play.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- DDDaryl Davis
You're paying, I'm playing. (laughs) So, um, you know, everybody likes music, you know, even the KKK.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- DDDaryl Davis
So used that to, uh, to my advantage. Um, I was playing in a bar one night in, uh, Frederick, Maryland, an all-white bar. And when I say all white, I don't mean that Blacks couldn't go in. What I mean is that, uh, Blacks chose not to go in. They weren't welcome. And here I was in this bar with this country band, a friend of mine's band. I was only Black guy in the band, only Black guy in the bar. And upon finishing the first set, this, um ... I'm walking to the, to the band table and somebody came up and put their arm around my shoulder. I turn around to see who it was. It was a white gentleman, maybe 15, 18 years older than me. And, um, he says, "Yeah, yeah, I really enjoy your all's music." I said, "Thank you," and shook his hand. And he pointed at the stage and said, "You know, I've seen this here band before, but I ain't never seen you before. Where'd you come from?" And I explained, "Yeah, you know, they told me they played here before, but this is my first time in this place. I just joined the band." And he said, "Well, man, I really like your piano playing. This is the first time I ever heard a Black man play piano like Jerry Lee Lewis."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- DDDaryl Davis
And (laughs) I wasn't, um, I wasn't offended, but I was rather surprised 'cause as, as I said, you know, this guy's, like, maybe 15 years older than me, and he didn't, he did not know the, uh, Black origin of Jerry Lee Lewis's style of piano playing. Um, I, I explained it to him, "I got it from the same place Jerry Lee did, from Black blues and boogie-woogie piano players." Well, the guy was incredulous, "Oh, no, no, no. Jerry Lee invented that. I never heard no Black man play like that, except for you." So I'm thinking, "Okay, well this, this guy never heard of Little Richard or, or, uh, Fats Domino." And, uh, (clears throat) I said, "Look, man, I know Jerry Lee Lewis. He's a friend of mine. He's told me himself where he learned how to play." The guy did not buy that I knew Jerry Lee. He didn't buy that Jerry Lee learned anything from Black people. But he was so fascinated that he wanted to buy me a drink. I was, I was like a novelty to him. So went back to his table, I had a cranberry juice, and then he announces, "This is the first time I ever sat down and had a drink with a Black man." And now I'm, I'm the one who's incredulous. Like, how can that be? You know, I'd sat down with thousands of white people, anybody else, had a meal, a beverage, a conversation. How was it that this guy had never done that? And innocently, I asked him, I said, "Why?" He didn't answer me at first. He stared down at the tabletop. And I asked him again, and his buddy sitting next to him elbowed him in the side and said, "Tell him, tell him, tell him." I said, "Tell me." You know, I'm trying to figure out what is this mystery. He looks at, at me just as plain as day and he says, "I'm a member of the Ku Klux Klan." Well, I burst out laughing.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- DDDaryl Davis
Uh, you know, because (laughs) he was-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- DDDaryl Davis
It was getting weirder by the second.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) Yeah.
- DDDaryl Davis
And, uh, (clears throat) I knew a lot about the Klan. Uh, I, I'd been studying racism since I was a 10-year-old kid 'cause of an incident that happened to me back then. And I bought books on Black supremacy, white supremacy, the KKK, the Nazis, the neo-Nazis, um, try- to try to understand this mentality. And I knew a Klansman would not come up and just throw his arm around some Black guy's shoulder and praise his talent and wanna, you know, hang out with him and buy him a drink. So, you know, this guy's jerking me around. So I'm laughing and he goes inside his pocket and pulls out his wallet and produces his Klan membership card.
- JRJoe Rogan
They have cards?
- DDDaryl Davis
Oh, yeah. Yeah. And he gave me his, uh, card. I looked at it and I recognized the, uh, Klan insignia, which is a, uh, red circle with a white cross and a red blood drop in the center of the cross. And I realized, "Oh, man, this thing's for real." So I stopped laughing. It wasn't funny anymore. And I gave it back to him and we chatted about the Klan and different things, but the dude gave me his phone number and wanted me to call him whenever I was to return to this bar so he could bring his friends, meaning Klansmen and Klanswomen, to see this Black guy play like Jerry Lee. I'm not sure he called me a Black guy to his friends, but ... (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- DDDaryl Davis
(laughs) But, uh, I said, "I'll call you."
- 15:00 – 30:00
Banished? (laughs) …
- DDDaryl Davis
I later found out, um, in my research that, and I got this from the guy who banished him, the, the leader of the, of that particular Klan group.
- JRJoe Rogan
Banished? (laughs)
- DDDaryl Davis
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's their term, they banish you.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- DDDaryl Davis
Okay. So, um, every, uh, year, um, Klan groups from all... Okay, first of all, let me, let me explain the hierarchy of the Klan.
- JRJoe Rogan
Okay.
- DDDaryl Davis
Okay? Today, there is no such thing as the Ku Klux Klan. All right? Um, there used to be. There, today there are many Ku Klux Klan groups, and they all are autonomous. They use the same name, Ku Klux Klan. You might have the Dixie Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, the, uh, Confederate Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, the Rebel Knights, on and on and on. These are all separate Ku Klux Klan groups. They believe in the same ideology, they wear the same colors on their robes that designate their rank, uh, they have the same secret handshake, the same-
- JRJoe Rogan
What's the secret handshake? Just in case-
- DDDaryl Davis
Oh, I'll, I'll, I'll-
- JRJoe Rogan
... somebody-
- DDDaryl Davis
I'll show it to you. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Should I do it later?
- DDDaryl Davis
Yeah, yeah, we'll do it later. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, we can't tell people in case somebody-
- DDDaryl Davis
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... shakes their hand, they don't even know?
- DDDaryl Davis
I can't reveal Klan secrets. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, okay. Serious stuff.
- DDDaryl Davis
But, uh, oh, yeah. Uh, same passwords, everything.
- JRJoe Rogan
They have passwords?
- DDDaryl Davis
Yeah. Oh, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hilarious.
- DDDaryl Davis
And, and, okay, understand, um, the Klan was formed in 1865 at the end of the Civil War and it was formed by, uh, by six, uh, Confederate soldiers, um, who were of Irish and Scottish descent and what they did was they borrowed, uh, the, the rituals or similar rituals and names and, uh, mystery from the Scottish Rite, the Masons, you know, grandness and-
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- DDDaryl Davis
... all that kind of stuff.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wizards and shit?
- DDDaryl Davis
Exactly. Precisely.
- JRJoe Rogan
Don't they have dragons?
- DDDaryl Davis
Yep, yep, okay? So here's how the hierarchy works. All right so, like I said over the years, central split apart into different splinter groups of Klan. So, and they all are rivals with each other. If you see couple different Klan groups out in public they will hold a un- a, uh, you know, unified front. But behind closed doors, they don't like each other.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- 30:00 – 45:00
(laughs) Their names, their…
- DDDaryl Davis
the Grand Nighthawk. Nighthawk in Klan terminology means bodyguard, security. (laughs) So a Grand Nighthawk would be a bodygu-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) Their names, their names are so ridiculous. Cyclopses and dragons-
- DDDaryl Davis
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... and wizards and nighthawks.
- DDDaryl Davis
Oh, it goes on and on. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- DDDaryl Davis
It goes on and on.
- JRJoe Rogan
(sighs) Of course it does.
- DDDaryl Davis
Uh, a Grand Kludd, a Grand Klabie.
- JRJoe Rogan
(sighs) Mm.
- DDDaryl Davis
Grand Magi, all kinds of stuff. Anyway, so the Grand Nighthawk, which means-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- DDDaryl Davis
... bodyguard of the Grand Dragon-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- DDDaryl Davis
... like an Imperial Nighthawk would be the bodyguard of the Imperial Wizard. In walks in th- this, uh, Grand Nighthawk. He's wearing military camouflage, (clears throat) and, uh, on one side of his chest is that Klan emblem, that red circle, white cross, blood drop. On the other side are the initials KKK, uh, embroidered on his beret that said Knights of the Ku Klux Klan. And on his hip he had a semi-automatic handgun in a holster. He comes in, and Mr. Kelly is walking directly behind him in a dark blue suit and tie. And when the Nighthawk turned the corner and saw me, he just froze. And Mr. Kelly did not realize that his Nighthawk had stopped short, and he slammed into his back and knocked him forward. And so they're stumbling around, regaining their balance, and looking all around the room. And I'm just wat- watching them, and I could see w- the apprehension in their faces. You know, I, I could read it, you know. Uh, they were, they were thinking, "Did the desk clerk give us the right room number?" You know?
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- DDDaryl Davis
Or, "Is this an ambush? And what's going on here?"
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- DDDaryl Davis
So (laughs) I stood up and I displayed the palms of my hands, as, as to say, "Hey, I'm unarmed." And I walked forward. I stuck out my right hand and I said, "Hi, Mr. Kelly. I'm Daryl Davis." And he shook my hand. He shook my hand, and the Nighthawk shook my hand. So, so far so good. I'm doing, I'm doing well. I said, "Come on in. Come on in. Have a seat, please." Mr. Kelly sat down, even better, and the Nighthawk stood at attention to Mr. Kelly's right. So I'm getting ready to sit down opposite him, right? And Mr. Kelly says to me, "Mr. Davis, do you have any form of identification?" I said, "Sure." I produced my wallet and I handed him my driver's license. He looked at it and he goes, "Oh, you live on such-and-such street in Silver Spring." Now this had me a little concerned. Why is this man reading my street address? All he has to do is look at my name, look at my picture, match it up to me, and give me back my license. Here he is like looking at my address. Is he gonna come burn a cross on my lawn? What's up? So I did not wanna let him know that he had, you know, unnerved me a little bit.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- DDDaryl Davis
But I wanted to let him know, under no circumstances are you to come to my house uninvited with any, you know, nefarious, uh, intentions. So I said to him, I said, "Yes, Mr. Kelly. That is where I live. And you live at ..." And I named his house number and his street, you know, that the, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- DDDaryl Davis
... former guy had given me. That way I was implying, hey, you know, you know where I live. I know where you live. If you come visit me, I'm gonna come visit you. So there was ... So, you know, we're gonna confine all this visiting to this motel room. So he smiled. He nodded his head like he understood. And I did not find out that day ... it was several months down the road ... that I had been presumptuous. I had no reason to fear Mr. Kelly coming to my house to do anything stupid. What had happened was one of his Klan members lived right down the road from me. I didn't know that. And Mr. Kelly would have to travel down my, my street to get into that neighborhood-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- DDDaryl Davis
... where this Klan member lived. He simply recognized the name of the street. That was it. Pure coincidence.
- JRJoe Rogan
So he wasn't trying to threaten you.
- DDDaryl Davis
No. Not at all. Not at all. So, um, you know ... And today, that same Klan member is in a federal prison. He, he, he'll be there for a long time. He, he, he would later commit a hate crime which landed him in the federal, uh, penitentiary. So, um, anyway, we got on with this interview. And, um, within 10 minutes, um, Mr. Kelly let me know why he could hate people li- like me. Uh, Black people are inferior. Uh, we are prone to crime. They're, uh ... We, we're criminals. That is why there are more Blacks in prison than whites. Now, that's a half-truth. Um, there are indeed more Blacks in prison than white people. It's not because we're prone to crime, like he said. It's because of inequity in our judicial system, where whites in the same predicament, uh, either don't get the same jail time or don't go to jail or whatever. Um, anyway, (clears throat) so I'm a criminal. Uh, he also said that Black people are lazy. Uh, we don't wanna work. While ... We prefer to scam the government welfare system. We're looking for handouts and freebies and all that-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- DDDaryl Davis
... where white people, you know, you know, you know (snaps fingers) , they, they work, et cetera. Um, and also, this book called The Bell Curve had just recently come out, and, um-
- JRJoe Rogan
Charles Murray.
- 45:00 – 1:00:00
(laughs) …
- DDDaryl Davis
uh, respectful. Okay? So then, um, it happened again and, you know, we began laughing. We began laughing, all of us, at how ignorant we had all been. I won't say that this was a learning moment, but it was a teaching moment, and the learning would come later. The, um, the... What, what, what was taught was this, all because some foreign, and underscore, highlight, circle the word foreign, entity of which we were ignorant, that being the bucket of ice cans of soda-
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- DDDaryl Davis
... entered into our little comfort zone via the noise that it made, we became fearful and accusatory of each other. So the lesson taught is ignorance breeds fear. We fear those things we don't understand.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- DDDaryl Davis
All right? If you do not keep that fear in check, that fear in turn will escalate and breed hatred, because we hate those things that frighten us. If you don't check that hatred, it in turn will escalate and breed destruction. We want to destroy those things that we hate. Why? Because they frighten us. But guess what? They may have been harmless and we were just ignorant. And we saw the whole chain unravel to almost completion. The last component being destruction. It stopped just short of that. Had I pounced across the table and hurt one of them, or had the Nighthawk drawn his gun and shot one of us, you know, that, that would've been the destruction. Um, fortunately that did not happen. We did see that, that whole chain unravel to completion three years ago on August 12th, 2017, in Charlottesville, Virginia, okay, which is like two hours from my house. On August 12th, 2017, in Charlottesville, Virginia there was a lot of ignorance in Charlottesville. There was a lot of fear in Charlottesville. There was a lot of hatred in Charlottesville. And what did it culminate in? It culminated in destruction when a white supremacist got inside his vehicle and drove full force into a crowd of counter-protestors, trying to murder them. He succeeded in injuring 20 and, uh, and murdering a young lady named Heather Heyer. Um, so that, that whole chain is there. If you wanna solve this problem of racism, we need to stop focusing on the symptoms. Don't worry about the fear. Don't worry about the hatred. Those s- those are just symptoms. That's like putting a Band-Aid on cancer. You gotta-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- DDDaryl Davis
... go down to the bone and treat it at its source. The source of all this is ignorance. Ignorance can be cured.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- DDDaryl Davis
The cure for ignorance is called education. So you fix the ignorance, there's nothing to fear, 'cause you fear what you don't know. When you cure the, the ignorance, you know something.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- DDDaryl Davis
There's nothing to fear. If there's nothing to fear, then there's nothing to hate. If there's nothing to hate, there is nothing to destroy. So we need to focus on the ignorance, and we address it with exposure, and education, and conversation. We spend way too much time in this country...... talking about the other person, talking at the other person, talking past the other person. Why not just spend a little bit of time talking with the other person? So, um, like I said, you know, we, we carried on with the conversation, had a good time. You know, nobody got hurt, everybody laughed. And, um, I thanked them, shook their hands, and they told me to keep in touch. I'm thinking, "Keep in touch?" (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) You guys are homies now.
- DDDaryl Davis
Yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- DDDaryl Davis
But I did, you know. I, I called him and said, "Hey, man, I'm playing in your county, come out and see me."
- JRJoe Rogan
How long did you guys talk that day?
- DDDaryl Davis
Oh, maybe, I don't know, two and a half hours?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- DDDaryl Davis
Something like that.
- JRJoe Rogan
Did, at the end, after the ice, did everything sort of loosen up? Or-
- DDDaryl Davis
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
So the laughter, and then did the conversation loosen then?
- DDDaryl Davis
The conversation loosened then. Um, I mean, you know, it, you know, it wasn't like, you know, we, you know, we all hugged each other, but, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Did you, did you offer any counter to the things he was saying, like-
- DDDaryl Davis
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... the Charles Murray stuff?
- DDDaryl Davis
Absolutely. Absolutely.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- DDDaryl Davis
Um-
- JRJoe Rogan
How did he respond to that?
- 1:00:00 – 1:15:00
Wow. …
- DDDaryl Davis
um, he did a smart thing, he did a good thing. He didn't hand it down, he shut it down.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- DDDaryl Davis
Yeah. Um, you know-
- JRJoe Rogan
Did he convince the other people in the Klan that-
- DDDaryl Davis
Well they had their choice to do whatever, whatever they wanted to do.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- DDDaryl Davis
A lot of them left. A lot of them left as well. Uh, then there were those who tried to keep it going but, you know, but failed.
- JRJoe Rogan
Did he use you as an example when he was speaking to them?
- DDDaryl Davis
They, they knew why he, he did it. Uh, he received some hate mail. He began receiving some hate mail from, from some of his own members anonymously. The same kind of hate mail that at one time he would send out to people anonymous was now coming back to him. You know, uh, you know, "You're in bed with Daryl Davis. You're a nigger lover." All that kind of stuff, unsigned.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- DDDaryl Davis
You know, the same stuff that he would put out to other people.... uh, and so he be- he began seeing himself in the mirror, you understand?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm.
- DDDaryl Davis
So that was, uh, that was very crucial. Um, and, and I, I, I have repeated this process many times with different people. Um-
- JRJoe Rogan
D- what did ... what is the process? Do ... when ... like, when you're talking about, like, the Charles Murray stuff, the bell curve stuff, how do you refute that? What are you saying to him?
- DDDaryl Davis
I'm saying to him, "Look, Mr. Murray, a- anytime you wanna prove something, you find something that fits your narrative."
- JRJoe Rogan
Yes.
- DDDaryl Davis
You can find some- some Black person who has a very low IQ, okay? If, if, if I'm gonna ... if, if I work for Ford a- and, and I want ... and I wanna prove that my car is better than Chevrolet, then I'm gonna find a Chevrolet that doesn't ... that, that doesn't run very well.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hm.
- DDDaryl Davis
You know, I'm, I'mma, I'mma do it that way. So I, I refuted Mr. Murray's and, and his, uh, his partner, the two guys who wrote the book, um, of their, their, their documentation. And, and I'll ... and see, they, they, they go by things that they can see and understand. I'm gonna give you an example of something that, that, that's gonna, uh, uh, help you understand. This Cyclops was riding around in my car one day with me. He's sitting in my passenger seat, right? And we're driving. I'm driving along, and somehow we got on the topic of, uh, of Black crime and he made a statement. He said, "Well, you know, you know, we all know, uh, they say that, you know ..." again, that they, authority.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- DDDaryl Davis
Say that, um, that, uh, Black people have a gene in them that makes them violent. And I'd heard that before from other Klan people. You know, that, that's one of their narratives and, uh, you know, the wild, Black savage kinda thing. And, uh, I said, "What are you talking about?" He says, "Well, who's doing all the drive-bys and carjackings in Southeast?" He was referring to Southeast Washington, DC, which is a predominantly Black area. Some whites live there. It's predominantly Black, very high crime ridden. I said, "Okay, it's Black people." I said, "But that's what lives there." I said, "Who's doing all the crime in Bangor, Maine? White people, because that's what lives there." I said, "You know, you're not even considering the demographics." He said, "No, no, no, no. Y- you all have this gene," blah, blah, blah.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- DDDaryl Davis
Uh, so you know, he's ... she'll shut me down. And, um, I said, "Look," he's right here. I said, "Look, I'm as Black as anybody you know." I said, "I have never done a drive-by, I have never done a carjacking. How do you explain that?" This man did not wait one second. He answered me like that. He said, "Your gene is latent. Hasn't come out yet."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- DDDaryl Davis
How do you argue with somebody who's that far in left field, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- DDDaryl Davis
I mean, you can't even bite into that and chew on it, right?
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- DDDaryl Davis
So I'm dumbfounded and I'm speechless. I'm just driving along. He's over here all smug, "Mm-hmm, you see?" Nothing to say. And so I thought about it and I said, "You know, they say ..." I used his, his authority. I said, "They say that all white people have a gene that makes them a serial killer." He said, "Well, how do you figure that?" I said, "Name me three Black serial killers." He couldn't do it. I said, "Here, I'm gonna give you one." I named one for him. I said, "Here, just, just name me two." He couldn't do it. I said Charles Manson, Jeffrey Dahmer, Henry Lee Lucas, John Wayne Gacy, Albert DeSalvo, the Boston Strangler, Ted Bundy, uh, s- uh, David Berkowitz, Son of Sam.
- JRJoe Rogan
Ed Gein, Henry Lee Lucas.
- 1:15:00 – 1:18:27
Mm-hmm. …
- DDDaryl Davis
off for no reason. Uh, and somebody else is doing my job. So what do I have to lose? Give me an application." And they sign up. So they're, like, you know, coerced in, in, into, into this, uh, group. Um, they may be a little easier to come out, you know, talking with them. Then a third reason why people would join, if somebody relocates to a town that is very Klan-oriented, a lot of people from the Klan, you know, live there and stuff, you know, if you wanna do business in that town, you gotta assimilate. You know, you join the local country club, the local chamber of commerce, and the local KKK. So, you know, those, those different reasons why people will, uh, will join.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- DDDaryl Davis
And depending, again, you know, depending upon how strong the ties are of, of why they join can determine, um, the, uh, the long- their, their longevity or their, or their, their hold on it.
- JRJoe Rogan
What is the one that took you the longest to crack?
- DDDaryl Davis
Well, I'll, I'll be honest with you. I never set out to convert anybody. And even though in the media it will say, "A Black musician converts 200 Klansmen," or, "X amount of Klan members," I didn't convert anybody. Uh, I didn't even convert one of them. I will say that I am the impetus for over 200 leaving the Klan. Yeah, I, I know that for a fact. And people have told me, "Yeah, you know, I'm out of it because of you," and things like that. But I did not convert them. They converted themselves. I gave them reason to think about their direction in life, and they thought about it, and thought, "You know, I need a better path, and this is the way to go." Um, because what would happen would be this. It's like, you know, when, when you, when you believe in something, um, some people just believe in it just because it's, it's that person saying it. Like, like, you know, we, we have a current president where no matter what he says, some people are gonna believe and others are, are, are gonna disbelieve. All right? Um, and that, and, you know, and that can go for any president, really. If you're a big fan, no matter what you do, what you say, you have a base that's gonna believe you. So I would tell these people when I saw a fault with what they were saying in their ideology. I said, "Well, let me tell you why I think this is incorrect," and I'd lay out the facts for them. And then they ... Now, they, they might not concede right then and there, but when they go home, they check it out, and it rolls around in their head and they begin thinking, "You know, Daryl does have a point, but he's Black, but he's Black. But he does have a point, but he's Black." So even though they know it's true, they don't wanna believe it because I'm Black. So it's like that cognitive dissonance thing going on. So they, they, they have a str- an internal struggle and they have to make up their own mind, "Do I continue living a lie or do I turn my life around and live the truth?"
- JRJoe Rogan
Well, it's also-
- DDDaryl Davis
That's their choice.
- JRJoe Rogan
... you're a very articulate guy, and I'm sure a lot of these people are not very educated, so the continued exposure to you is probably confusing to them as well. 'Cause you're so good at forming sentences and speaking calm, and you, you know, the words flow so smoothly out of your mouth-
- DDDaryl Davis
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... and you have these wonderful, this wonderful grasp of the English language-
- DDDaryl Davis
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
... they're probably like, "Fuck, I think this guy might be smarter than me." (laughs)
- DDDaryl Davis
(laughs) But, but I-
- JRJoe Rogan
That, that had to help.
Episode duration: 2:39:40
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