Joe Rogan Experience #1425 - Garrett Reisman

1. 0:00 – 15:00

   Three, two, one. Welcome.…

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:02

      Three, two, one. Welcome. Thanks for doing this, man. I really appreciate it.

   2. GRGarrett Reisman0:06

      Thanks for inviting me. This is awesome.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:07

      Uh, I've seen a bunch of your videos online of you talking about space and your, your, your dream of being an astronaut as a young man. And what, what is it like just to see the Earth from above and to be... You lived up there for like, what, 95 days?

   4. GRGarrett Reisman0:22

      95 days, which actually is kind of a bummer, to be honest with you. Because, uh... You know this if you saw that video, maybe, but-

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:29

      Yeah.

   6. GRGarrett Reisman0:30

      ... the thing is, if you stay for 100 days, they give you a patch, right? And I, I, I'm at day 95 and the Space Shuttle Discovery shows up to bring me home, and Mark Kelly was the commander. He goes, "Garrett, it's time to hop in and come home." And I'm like, "Man, I just need five more days." (laughs)

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:47

      (laughs) To get that patch.

   8. GRGarrett Reisman0:48

      Can we just, like, go around a few more times or something? And it didn't work.

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:52

      Yeah. It seems like 95 days should be enough, man. Give the man a patch.

   10. GRGarrett Reisman0:56

       Right, right, you know.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:58

       What's-

   12. GRGarrett Reisman0:58

       It's... How much does a patch cost?

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:59

       What's the longest anybody's stayed up there?

   14. GRGarrett Reisman1:02

       The longest, um, for an American was Scott Kelly's, uh, nearly a year, in space, is longest, uh, in, in, in a row, basically. Uh, but there's a Russian, uh, that stayed up there for longer than a year, and he has the all-time record.

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:15

       How... N- and they... When they come back, like, what, what is 90 days like, coming back? Because I've talked to people who've gone there. When they come back, their balance is all off. Their equilibrium's all-

   16. GRGarrett Reisman1:27

       Yeah, you're-

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:28

       ... screwy.

   18. GRGarrett Reisman1:28

       You're kind of... Uh, it, it, it's, uh, you're kind of messed up. And, and your vestibular system is what's affected the most. At least that's what's most noticeable when you first get back. Um, actually, the first thing I noticed, uh, let me back up, is, uh, how heavy things were again. You know, so-

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:43

       Oh.

   20. GRGarrett Reisman1:43

       Uh, like I took off my helmet and I was holding it in my hand, and it felt like I was holding the anchor to the USS Nimitz, you know?

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:48

       (laughs)

   22. GRGarrett Reisman1:48

       (laughs) It's like... I'm like, "How am I ever gonna brush my teeth?" It'd be, like, too arduous, you know.

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:53

       Does your body severely weaken in 95 days?

   24. GRGarrett Reisman1:57

       Well, back in the day, back when I was going there... So that mission, my, my long-term mission was back in, uh, 2008. And back then, we were still losing bone density and muscle mass, uh, as we're going up there. The long- about... You lost about 1% of bone every month. So I was about 3% low.

   25. JRJoe Rogan2:15

       They don't anymore?

   26. GRGarrett Reisman2:16

       They don't anymore, 'cause we found out ... We, we came up with better countermeasures to prevent that.

   27. JRJoe Rogan2:21

       What are the countermeasures?

   28. GRGarrett Reisman2:22

       It's basically working out.

   29. JRJoe Rogan2:23

       Oh.

   30. GRGarrett Reisman2:24

       Uh, and it's resistive exercise that, that does it for you. Which we knew back when I was going, but the problem was we had a, uh, in- we had this machine that was kind of a, um, a first generation of the workout machine, and it could do large reps, but, but low load. So you're doing, like, a lot of reps at, at l- at low weight, and, and that helped, but it... But what helps, it turns out, we didn't... We found this out kind of by happenstance, but it turns out that high load, low reps works much better.
2. 15:00 – 30:00

   Yeah, they call that…

   1. JRJoe Rogan15:00

      and cultures and countries and continents are all nonsense. We're really just all in this one thing together.

   2. GRGarrett Reisman15:07

      Yeah, they call that the overview effect.

   3. JRJoe Rogan15:09

      Hmm.

   4. GRGarrett Reisman15:09

      And a lot of guys come back and talk about that, and they really feel it, and they talk about a world without borders and...

   5. JRJoe Rogan15:14

      Yeah.

   6. GRGarrett Reisman15:15

      And it's a beautiful sentiment and I, and I don't... I don't wanna knock that in any way-

   7. JRJoe Rogan15:19

      But meh. (laughs)

   8. GRGarrett Reisman15:21

      ... because... (laughs) Yeah. (laughs) I- it's like... Like, really?

   9. JRJoe Rogan15:24

      (laughs)

   10. GRGarrett Reisman15:24

       A war without bo- what'd you expect to see? You expect to look down and see, like, dotted lines between all the countries, you know? (laughs)

   11. JRJoe Rogan15:29

       (laughs)

   12. GRGarrett Reisman15:30

       Like... Uh, you know, I guess, it- it... you do... you... It's inescapable. When you look down and you see the planet and you realize that we're all in the same boat, you know? But, uh, that didn't strike me as a... as a sudden realization because... I think it's because I knew that before I went. It... You shouldn't have to go and strap into a rocket and blast off and look at the Earth and know that basically we're all human beings, I think. I mean, I think the things that unite us are so much stronger and more important than the... than the crazy little things that divide us, like race or sex or nationality or politics or whatever. Um, and, and y- y- you... At the end of the day, we have this one home and, and we're all stuck here in it together. So, I, I had that strong knowledge before I went, and maybe that's why when I looked down, I'm like, "Yeah, there it is. Okay. I get it."

   13. JRJoe Rogan16:24

       Hmm.

   14. GRGarrett Reisman16:25

       But it wasn't like all of a sudden, like, the, the, the shade was pulled back and there was, like, suddenly a new realization about life.

   15. JRJoe Rogan16:34

       Well, is there one place that's the spot on the space station to get the view? Where-

   16. GRGarrett Reisman16:39

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan16:39

       ... you really get a big window?

   18. GRGarrett Reisman16:41

       There's this huge window, uh, called the cupola that wasn't there in my first mission, but it was there in my second mission. I... So I got to see it the second time.

   19. JRJoe Rogan16:48

       They added a window?

   20. GRGarrett Reisman16:49

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan16:49

       (laughs)

   22. GRGarrett Reisman16:50

       It's not... Yeah. (laughs)

   23. JRJoe Rogan16:51

       (laughs)

   24. GRGarrett Reisman16:52

       It's like, "Hmm. Let's get the Sawzall and put the..." (laughs)

   25. JRJoe Rogan16:55

       (laughs) Yeah, how do you add a window to the space station? (laughs)

   26. GRGarrett Reisman16:57

       Yeah, you just, you know, get the... No. It, it, it's a... It... They added a whole module in the-

   27. JRJoe Rogan17:02

       Oh.

   28. GRGarrett Reisman17:02

       ... module had, had this cupola, which is like a... a-

   29. JRJoe Rogan17:05

       Is that it right there? Is that what you're looking through?

   30. GRGarrett Reisman17:07

       That's exactly it. Yeah.
3. 30:00 – 45:00

   And that was it.…

   1. JRJoe Rogan30:00

   2. GRGarrett Reisman30:00

      And that was it. Saved the day.

   3. JRJoe Rogan30:02

      So you just deduced this just understanding how things change according to temperature?

   4. GRGarrett Reisman30:06

      Yeah.

   5. JRJoe Rogan30:07

      Wow.

   6. GRGarrett Reisman30:07

      Thermal expansion.

   7. JRJoe Rogan30:09

      Wow. Dude.

   8. GRGarrett Reisman30:10

      Yeah. So that's-

   9. JRJoe Rogan30:11

      That's incredible.

   10. GRGarrett Reisman30:12

       Uh, yeah, that was my thing.

   11. JRJoe Rogan30:13

       Did you yell at the people who manufactured it?

   12. GRGarrett Reisman30:15

       No.

   13. JRJoe Rogan30:15

       Okay.

   14. GRGarrett Reisman30:16

       ... we were so happy. We- I, I have video of this that you can... And, and, uh, we were, we were going, "Woo-hoo!" Giving each other high-fives in the suits, and we were doing like, "Woo!"

   15. JRJoe Rogan30:24

       (laughs)

   16. GRGarrett Reisman30:25

       (laughs)

   17. JRJoe Rogan30:25

       Wow.

   18. GRGarrett Reisman30:26

       It, it was, uh- it was victory.

   19. JRJoe Rogan30:28

       That's a great victory, though. That really is, that you figured that out.

   20. GRGarrett Reisman30:30

       Yeah.

   21. JRJoe Rogan30:31

       A lot of people would have been stuck up there. How the fuck did no one try it before they went up there?

   22. GRGarrett Reisman30:36

       I don't know. Maybe they did, and it just, like... Maybe they weren't... When it got up to space and, and it experienced those different temperatures, it, it, it expanded differently. I don't know for sure. But... So I'm not pointing any fingers, but it didn't work, and, uh... But we solved it. And that's, that's the kind of thing that you can't, like... Until we have AI or something that can really learn, we- you can't code that, so that's a real-

   23. JRJoe Rogan30:57

       Right.

   24. GRGarrett Reisman30:57

       ... benefit that humans bring to the-

   25. JRJoe Rogan30:59

       Ah.

   26. GRGarrett Reisman30:59

       ... to the equation. Uh, being able to do... To be able to adapt to something you didn't expect.

   27. JRJoe Rogan31:04

       Otherwise, that thing would have been junk.

   28. GRGarrett Reisman31:06

       Yeah. If a robot's doing it, you're, you're stuck. It's gonna keep pushing. It's not gonna, you know... You're not gonna be able to-

   29. JRJoe Rogan31:11

       Wow.

   30. GRGarrett Reisman31:11

       ... reprogram it.
4. 45:00 – 1:00:00

   There it is. …

   1. GRGarrett Reisman45:00

      (smacks lips) your, your Apple Watch could run circles around them. I mean, it's like nothing. Um, they're, they're so primitive. But, uh, but it did, it, it took off like a rocket, it landed like an airplane. You could had... Uh, you could carry people, you could carry the Hubble Space Telescope in a trunk. You can, uh, do a spacewalk from it.

   2. JRJoe Rogan45:18

      There it is.

   3. GRGarrett Reisman45:18

      It has a robot arm that you see there. Um, yeah, there's Endeavor. So, that's my flight actually. That's, that's, uh, STS-123. In the middle, that's the robot that we put together.

   4. JRJoe Rogan45:30

      Wow.

   5. GRGarrett Reisman45:31

      But, um, but anyway, the, uh, it's, it's an incredible machine and we'll never design anything like it maybe ever again. Uh, certainly not anytime soon. So despite its technological in- uh, incredibleness, (laughs) for lack of a better word, uh, it had a couple key limitations. One was it's not that safe, you know, so we lost two of them, Challenger and Columbia. And, uh, we could talk about that. I knew, I knew the guys in Columbia and that was really, really, uh, rough. Um, and then the second thing was it's super expensive because it took so much maintenance, even though it was reusable, or most of it was. (smacks lips) It took so much maintenance, it took a standing army to keep it running. We're spending I think three or four billion dollars a year on the program and, and there's no way if we wanted to build something that was going to be more cost-effective or safer, there's no way we're going to get a plus up from Congress of like an additional four billion dollars a year to go do that. The only way really to make it happen was to stop flying the shuttle. So we, we took a very painful decision and we said, "Okay, we're gonna retire these things so we can make something new." And we know that there's going to be a gap period where we're not gonna have anything and it's gonna suck. But the good news is, uh, is and the, the, the, the great timing about this conversation right now is that gap ends this year.

   6. JRJoe Rogan46:48

      Really?

   7. GRGarrett Reisman46:49

      Yeah. 2020 is when that painful period is put to rest.

   8. JRJoe Rogan46:53

      And what, what happens?

   9. GRGarrett Reisman46:55

      We're gonna have a SpaceX Dragon.

   10. JRJoe Rogan46:56

       SpaceX Dragon?

   11. GRGarrett Reisman46:58

       Yeah.

   12. JRJoe Rogan46:58

       That's a great name.

   13. GRGarrett Reisman46:59

       Yeah.

   14. JRJoe Rogan47:00

       I love it.

   15. GRGarrett Reisman47:01

       Yeah. We're gonna have a brand new ship. And not only the Dragon, we're gonna have the Boeing, uh, Starliner. And, uh, and then we have two other private companies that are gonna be launching people this year. Uh, yeah, yeah, the... It's incredible these four companies all trying to put humans into space with private companies-

   16. JRJoe Rogan47:16

       Yeah.

   17. GRGarrett Reisman47:17

       ... and the schedules are, are just aligning so it's all... Looks like it all will happen in 2020.

   18. JRJoe Rogan47:22

       Now, they're, they've done some people, civilian trips up into space, right?

   19. GRGarrett Reisman47:29

       They have and it, that's all happened becau- by paying the Russians-

   20. JRJoe Rogan47:32

       That's what it is?

   21. GRGarrett Reisman47:33

       ... for rides, yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan47:34

       Why is their equipment so much better?

   23. GRGarrett Reisman47:37

       It's not. Um, the... It's the only game in town once we, once we retired the shuttles, there was nothing else available, so.

   24. JRJoe Rogan47:45

       But I, I would be like, "Hey, um, uh, how well are you guys maintaining these things?"

   25. GRGarrett Reisman47:49

       Yeah.

   26. JRJoe Rogan47:49

       Like, "What are you doing?" Like, "Tell me, tell me what's your maintenance schedule."

   27. GRGarrett Reisman47:53

       It's been a little scary lately because they've had some-

   28. JRJoe Rogan47:55

       Yeah.

   29. GRGarrett Reisman47:55

       ... they've had some mishaps, right?

   30. JRJoe Rogan47:57

       (coughs) Oh, like what?
5. 1:00:00 – 1:09:46

   (clears throat) …

   1. GRGarrett Reisman1:00:00

      and determination. So I found out, uh, when I was a kid that they were-

   2. JRJoe Rogan1:00:05

      (clears throat)

   3. GRGarrett Reisman1:00:05

      ... they were taking, um, uh, not only fighter pilots but also, like, engineers and scientists to be astronauts. 'Cause I was, was totally super stoked by the, the whole concept of going into space. But I had a mom that's like, uh, scared of flying. She was a typical Jewish mom, she was like-

   4. JRJoe Rogan1:00:20

      (laughs)

   5. GRGarrett Reisman1:00:20

      She's like, uh ... I told her once I wanted to join the Air Force and she ... In a, like, a public restaurant and she started freaking out and, like, started, like, soliciting opinions from the other parents. "Would you let your son do this?" And, you know, I was like, "Oh God."

   6. JRJoe Rogan1:00:31

      That's hilarious.

   7. GRGarrett Reisman1:00:32

      So, (laughs) so I never thought ... I knew that, like, being a test pilot was not gonna happen, so I thought being an astronaut wasn't gonna happen. But then I found out that you could do it ... You can be an engineer and, and be an astronaut. And then, like, that was my eureka moment and I was inspired-... but to be determined, I got that photo and I put it over my desk and it was like, that was my like... That was the beacon, you know? That was the, the goal. And I kept working and any time I was having a difficult time, I looked up at that thing and said, "You know, one day I'm going to hang that in the astronaut office in the Johnson Space Center." And, uh, I still have that thing.

   8. JRJoe Rogan1:01:06

      That must have been surreal, the moment when you were on that space walk, thinking about your childhood and thinking about being inspired by those images.

   9. GRGarrett Reisman1:01:14

      Yeah. (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan1:01:15

       That would be like, "Holy shit. I'm actually an astronaut." (laughs)

   11. GRGarrett Reisman1:01:20

       (laughs)

   12. JRJoe Rogan1:01:20

       I mean, you really are an astronaut. I mean, how many are there?

   13. GRGarrett Reisman1:01:24

       The- there's, there are, I think there's been around 500 people that have been to space.

   14. JRJoe Rogan1:01:28

       Ever?

   15. GRGarrett Reisman1:01:29

       Yeah.

   16. JRJoe Rogan1:01:29

       That's nuts.

   17. GRGarrett Reisman1:01:30

       Yeah, it's, it's a pretty small percentage.

   18. JRJoe Rogan1:01:31

       That's not a lot. (laughs)

   19. GRGarrett Reisman1:01:33

       (laughs)

   20. JRJoe Rogan1:01:33

       And now, with SpaceX... What is your role with SpaceX?

   21. GRGarrett Reisman1:01:37

       So I left NASA in 2011 and I went down and met with Elon and I said, "Hey, I really like what you're doing here. Can I help? And, uh, what can I..." And he gave me a job. So I went, and I left NASA and I came here and I worked there for seven years. Did a bunch of different things. Uh, eventually became our Director of Space Operations. So my team was responsible for operating mission control at SpaceX and controlling... We have another Dragon capsule that we use for cargo, to take cargo, and we've been doing that for a long time, up to the space station and back. And so we would operate it in mission control, but we're also, we're designing the- the- the crew one that we showed you. So we were coming up with the procedures and all the rules of how we're gonna use that thing, and, and, and meeting all of NASA's requirements and helping to provide input to the guys designing the displays and the suits and the controls and the seats and all the stuff you need for people. And, so that was, that was... You know, I did that for quite a, quite a long time.

   22. JRJoe Rogan1:02:31

       Wh- what are your thoughts on this, w- what's happening now with space travel, where it's transferring into the public sector?

   23. GRGarrett Reisman1:02:38

       Yeah.

   24. JRJoe Rogan1:02:38

       Or the private sector, rather. Instead of being something that the government handles, now it's private companies. Is that a good thing?

   25. GRGarrett Reisman1:02:44

       It's a great thing.

   26. JRJoe Rogan1:02:45

       Is it?

   27. GRGarrett Reisman1:02:46

       Uh, yeah, because first of all, it's not quite that black and white. Um, in- in the media, it's all portrayed as commercial space-

   28. JRJoe Rogan1:02:52

       Right.

   29. GRGarrett Reisman1:02:52

       ... and like, "These private companies are taking over." The truth is, at least for the human orbital space flight that we're doing at SpaceX and that Boeing is doing with, with their vehicle, it's a par- it's a public/private partnership.

   30. JRJoe Rogan1:03:04

       Ah.

Episode duration: 2:12:12