Joe Rogan Experience #1455 - Lex Fridman

1. 0:01 – 3:25

   Homemade masks and the case for universal masking (Masks4All)

   1. JRJoe Rogan0:01

      Hello, Lex.

   2. LFLex Fridman0:02

      (laughs) You might be wondering why... what I'm wearing on my face.

   3. JRJoe Rogan0:06

      Uh, I'm not wondering.

   4. LFLex Fridman0:08

      No?

   5. JRJoe Rogan0:08

      No. It's coronavirus time. Everybody out there is wearing a mask, so I'm assuming that's what you're wearing on your face.

   6. LFLex Fridman0:13

      Yeah, so this is a homemade mask. Takes 30 seconds to make.

   7. JRJoe Rogan0:16

      30 seconds? Did you time yourself?

   8. LFLex Fridman0:19

      I don't know. Yeah-

   9. JRJoe Rogan0:19

      If you have a bra, can you, like, cut a cup and, like, a strap tie it on? That would work, right?

   10. LFLex Fridman0:25

       But there's no... Yes, probably, but it probab-... There... As far as I'm aware, there's no scientific study of how effective bras are at filtering.

   11. JRJoe Rogan0:34

       How effective is that thing?

   12. LFLex Fridman0:36

       So there i-... It's... I'm glad you asked, Joe.

   13. JRJoe Rogan0:38

       (laughs)

   14. LFLex Fridman0:38

       So, I'm, um, uh, part of this... And I'll take this off in a few minutes. I just want to... One, I wanna talk about some of the science, and two, I wanna remove some of the stigma that's around masks. So, I'm part of this group of scientists that, uh, have put together a survey paper showing that masks work. And it started as a movement called Masks4All, hashtag, uh, in, uh, the Czech Republic, that essentially one of the critical components of s- stopping the spread of coronavirus is everybody has to wear masks. And the science is twofold, so... I mean, uh, I need to break this apart, but...

   15. JRJoe Rogan1:24

       You're gonna take the mask off eventually, right?

   16. LFLex Fridman1:26

       Yeah.

   17. JRJoe Rogan1:27

       So let's just take it off now-

   18. LFLex Fridman1:28

       If you'll just-

   19. JRJoe Rogan1:28

       ... so I can hear you 'cause y-

   20. LFLex Fridman1:31

       There's an audio? Is... You can't hear that?

   21. JRJoe Rogan1:33

       Oh, that's so much better.

   22. LFLex Fridman1:34

       Oh, yeah. Nice. So-

   23. JRJoe Rogan1:35

       It's like taking a condom off.

   24. LFLex Fridman1:37

       (laughs) The before and after. So you probably shouldn't be wearing a mask when you're doing podcasts.

   25. JRJoe Rogan1:42

       Definitely not.

   26. LFLex Fridman1:43

       But everywhere else, yes.

   27. JRJoe Rogan1:44

       So when you're going out to the grocery store, you should wear a mask everywhere.

   28. LFLex Fridman1:47

       Everywhere, and that's... Okay, so some, some questions. Do homemade masks work? So there's, uh, currently a shortage of s-... N95 respirator masks, which should be exclusively used as PPE, personal protective equipment, by healthcare workers. Okay. There's also a shortage of surgical masks, which are these non-woven fabric masks that work very well for the thing I'm talking about. But because there's a shortage of them, we should not be buying them and should be saving them for healthcare workers. And then the open question was whether homemade masks, like the one I just described, uh, work to stop as a filtration mechanism. This is the confusing thing for the individual-centric society that we live in. Masks are the most... W- what are they actually effective for? What they're effective for is to prevent me, if I'm infected, asymptomatic, s- from spreading the infection to you. So that's where the movement of Masks4All started, which is your mask protects me, my mask protects you. And th- the idea there is, is, is not... I'm not protecting... I'm not creating a wall from the rest of society. I am contributing to the, sort of the bigger aggregate picture of it by n- uh, not allowing the infection to spread. So it... Masks is, uh... Masks allow you to reduce that transmission rate to one, to below one, so allowing you to decrease the transmission rate while also allowing people to be in public. So like-

2. 3:25 – 6:42

   COVID research flood, uncertainty, and why treatment claims lag evidence

   1. JRJoe Rogan3:25

      How much have, have, y- how much have you been studying this disease and, uh, the, the potential remedies and all, all the different things around it?

   2. LFLex Fridman3:34

      A lot. (laughs)

   3. JRJoe Rogan3:34

      A lot? Yeah? What do... What is your thoughts on hydroxychloroquine and, um, zinc and, uh, Z-Paks? This is something that's been thought of as, uh, a, a, a potential r- remedy.

   4. LFLex Fridman3:47

      Yeah. Uh, as a potential remedy. So on that side, I haven't studied, uh, the actual... So there's noth- nothing clearly published yet.

   5. JRJoe Rogan3:55

      Right.

   6. LFLex Fridman3:55

      This is the biggest problem.

   7. JRJoe Rogan3:57

      Yeah.

   8. LFLex Fridman3:57

      So when I say I know a lot, what, uh, w- what I and others have been doing is reading a lot of papers.

   9. JRJoe Rogan4:03

      Mm-hmm.

   10. LFLex Fridman4:03

       They're coming out in the hundreds every single day, so people doing really strong studies across the board.

   11. JRJoe Rogan4:09

       This is pretty unprecedented, right?

   12. LFLex Fridman4:11

       Unprecedented.

   13. JRJoe Rogan4:11

       Where something... A, a new disease comes out, and everyone's scrambling to try to figure out what, if anything, can help it.

   14. LFLex Fridman4:17

       Yeah, there's a lot of aspects here that are unprecedented. The scientific community has stepped up in a way that I've never seen be-... I couldn't imagine it was possible to do. Like, everybody stopped what they're doing and from wha- whatever walks of life. So, artificial intelligence community is really working on a lot of aspects of this, which I can talk about. Every... It... The virologists, uh, bioinformatics folks, so everybody's working on this, looking at different angles. And obviously, people who are developing vaccines and, uh, antiviral drugs are working on this. The thing is, what... Uh, to your question, we're all waiting for s- actual studies, so you can't really answer it.

   15. JRJoe Rogan5:00

       Right. Right.

   16. LFLex Fridman5:00

       You can't say something is promising or not. Th- so what's happening now is there's incredible candidates for vaccines, for antiviral drugs, but in order to say anything at all, there has to be at least a little sign, a little signal that there is... That this is something that can work-

   17. JRJoe Rogan5:16

       Mm-hmm.

   18. LFLex Fridman5:16

       ... for this particular... So one of the things is, uh, if you look at the virology of it, just the protein structure of, uh, a corona, COVID-19 virus, there's a lotta elements to it that are different from even its other family member of SARS within the coronavirus family. So it's a totally open question whether things that... From masks, what kind of things work for coronavirus versus SARS versus influenza versus rhinovirus, which is behind the, the common flu. And then what, what works on the coronavirus? So that's true for masks. That's true for drugs. That's, uh, that's true for epidemiological study models and so on. So there's a lot of uncertainty here, and you have to actually do the test. On the mask side, I'm really paying attention. There's a guy named, um, Jeremy Howard-... who brought a lot of us together from all kind of expertise and were putting together this giant paper showing that, um, masks are effective. And the same thing is happening in, in other domains. But masks, the powerful thing about masks is it's something we can do, that us individuals ... Right now, a lot of our, us individuals are stuck, trapped in our homes, unable to do anything. Your only tasks is to remain, to practice physical distancing, social distancing, to maintain a healthy immune system, to, uh, uh-

3. 6:42 – 9:27

   Immune resilience: exercise, sleep, sauna, heat/cold exposure, and disease progression

   1. JRJoe Rogan6:42

      Maintaining a healthy immune system seems to me to be the most important thing, because there's so many people that are asymptomatic. We don't know why, whether it's genetic. We don't know w- what, what is causing some people to f- have virtually no symptoms whatsoever. But I would think that maintaining a healthy immune system, eating healthy foods, in particular, supplementing with vitamins, b- for me particularly, I've ramped up my vitamin C in a big way, vitamin D, 4,000 IUs a day. Um-

   2. LFLex Fridman7:06

      Exercise.

   3. JRJoe Rogan7:06

      ... and ex- exercise.

   4. LFLex Fridman7:07

      Sleep.

   5. JRJoe Rogan7:07

      And sauna. If you have access to a sauna, and I know most people don't, but if you don't have access to a sauna and you do have a bathtub, take yourself a hot bath. You know, what you, what you're looking for is heat shock proteins. One of the things that happens when you have a flu or, uh, when you have a fever, right, your body is, your body f- ... When it's, when you, your body, when your body has a fever, one of the things it's trying to do is trying to kill that virus. It's trying to overheat it and, um, that, that produc- production of those heat shock proteins is, uh, very important. There was a study written on, um, flus and viruses and regular sauna use and it showed a significant decrease in infection with, uh, regular sauna use. So, it might not help you if you have it now, but it will help you to s- keep a strong and healthy immune system. Heat and cold, those two things, shocking yourself with cold baths and shocking yourself with hot baths if, if you don't have access to a sauna. If you do have access to a sauna, I would recommend ice, ice baths and, and, and sauna. It's just, it's very, very important for your immune system.

   6. LFLex Fridman8:14

      Yeah.

   7. JRJoe Rogan8:15

      It's a, it's a, it's a way that you can al- ... You know, you're giving yourself a drug that your body makes, really.

   8. LFLex Fridman8:19

      Yeah. I read a couple studies actually on the use of, I don't know about sauna, but, uh, heat-

   9. JRJoe Rogan8:24

      Mm-hmm.

   10. LFLex Fridman8:24

       ... like you said, of hot water then switching to cold-

   11. JRJoe Rogan8:27

       Mm-hmm.

   12. LFLex Fridman8:28

       ... for, um, increasing the-

   13. JRJoe Rogan8:31

       Cytokines?

   14. LFLex Fridman8:33

       ... effic- ... No. Well, the efficacy of natural killer, um, I think they're called NK, the natural killer immune cells-

   15. JRJoe Rogan8:39

       Mm.

   16. LFLex Fridman8:39

       ... that, that are essential for when ... So there's this moment when you get the disease and you progress, uh, coronavirus, you progress from just being having mild symptoms to having to go to the hospital to having to then, uh, go into critical condition. So that transition, the natural killer, uh, cells are essential for that. And the variation from heat to cold and water helps. So-

   17. JRJoe Rogan9:10

       H- how strange is that? That's one of the strangest aspects of this disease, that people seem to have mild symptoms and then almost overnight, it turns on them.

   18. LFLex Fridman9:19

       Yeah. It's, uh, and-

   19. JRJoe Rogan9:21

       It's so strange.

   20. LFLex Fridman9:21

       And it depends on the, you know, and we don't understand, for some people that doesn't happen, for some people it does.

4. 9:27 – 15:47

   Conspiracies, lab-leak speculation, and a deep dive on what viruses are

   1. JRJoe Rogan9:27

      Yeah. I mean, it's gonna be a long time before they sort this out. And the real problem with that is in the meantime, all these fucking nut jobs that wanna blame this on 5G or, you know, or whatever, fill in the blank with whatever crazy conspiracy theory people have. One that is interesting is that Wuhan apparently had some sort of bio-weapons lab there.

   2. LFLex Fridman9:52

      Hm.

   3. JRJoe Rogan9:52

      That's interesting to me because if that's the case, it's not outside of the realm of possibility that something could be accidentally released or purposefully released. Like, if they do have a weapons lab there, I mean, what d- ... W- why would they make weapons labs? If they, if you, w- why is anyone making bio-weapons? You're making bio-weapons to s- ... The idea is you're making a disease that you can inflict on the enemy, right? Well, if you have a disease that can be inflicted on the enemy, that's just human beings. If that stuff gets out, it would be the, the biggest shock of all time if it turns out that this was actually a manmade disease that was leaked from a lab. I'm not saying it was. Again, I'm a moron. I'm not the guy to come to when it comes to bio-weapons or viruses or any of these things, but I'm just speculating as a human being that if there is a bio-weapons lab in Wuhan ... Google that.

   4. GUGuest10:51

      I did. I-

   5. JRJoe Rogan10:52

      What does it say?

   6. GUGuest10:52

      It, no. I mean, I've heard that a few times too. Uh, it's this ... When I, when I Googled bio-weapon lab in Wuhan-

   7. JRJoe Rogan10:59

      Crenshaw was talking about it yesterday.

   8. GUGuest11:00

      ... it comes up. It says, "Experts know it is not a bio-weapon. No, coronavirus was not bio-engineered. How did the outbreak start? It did not come from that."

   9. JRJoe Rogan11:09

      How do they know?

   10. GUGuest11:10

       I mean ...

   11. LFLex Fridman11:11

       Right. It, that ... So, first of all, bioengineering, l- let's break that apart 'cause it's a fascinating topic.

   12. JRJoe Rogan11:17

       Yeah.

   13. LFLex Fridman11:17

       I mean, one, one of the s- things that coronavirus is making us realize is, holy crap, there is things out there that can kill us-

   14. JRJoe Rogan11:25

       Yes.

   15. LFLex Fridman11:25

       ... y- yeah, on a scale that we've never before imagined and nothing like that, hopefully, will be happening here but this is the dress rehearsal, right? So-

   16. JRJoe Rogan11:33

       Right. If it was something like, something that has, like, Spanish flu or that, that kind of potential for death.

   17. LFLex Fridman11:40

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan11:40

       Yeah.

   19. LFLex Fridman11:40

       Influen- so Spanish flu is influenza. I don't think we've seen the worst of influenza yet.

   20. JRJoe Rogan11:44

       No. I don't think so either. That was the scariest thing about talking to the guys at the CDC when Duncan Trussell and I did a show down there. They were saying, "We're not worried about s- manmade stuff. It's we're worried about natural stuff."

   21. LFLex Fridman11:54

       Yeah.

   22. JRJoe Rogan11:55

       Na- nat- natural viruses that mutate and jump from animals to humans, like they believe this COVID-19 is. They, they're like, "That's the scariest thing and that you can't stop it and it happens all the time."

   23. LFLex Fridman12:06

       Yeah. If viruses weren't so terrifying, they would almost be beautiful. The-... the, the- so, so what is a virus? It's a, some genetic code, RNA, DNA, wrapped in some protein. So it's, it's a, it's a piece of computer code that goes into a human body or any kind of living organism and has them run that code in order to print stuff. And it's able to mutate. So there's, there's millions of viruses out there, most of them infecting living organisms that are not human, and they're able to spread in these insane ways, in- in fact, uh, infecting billions of organisms. I mean, that as a wea- in terms of a weapon, in terms of a natural pandemic is terrifying.

   24. JRJoe Rogan12:53

       Yeah.

   25. LFLex Fridman12:53

       Because they can... you know, a lot of people are worried about what's happening now with the coronavirus. The deadliest part of the Spanish flu was the second wave. When the- there was this- was the second wave connected to the first World War II- oh, sorry, the first World War, is there was a mutation which made it a lot deadlier. So, a single mutation that then, uh, begins to propagate through the- through society can- can completely change the way we experience this virus. It can-

   26. JRJoe Rogan13:23

       And it was particularly deadly because it, uh, it was really devastating to young, healthy people with strong immune systems.

   27. LFLex Fridman13:28

       It was devastating to everybody-

   28. JRJoe Rogan13:30

       Mm-hmm.

   29. LFLex Fridman13:30

       ... which is surprising. Uh, usually it's, uh, compromised immune systems what this-

   30. JRJoe Rogan13:35

       Yeah.
5. 15:47 – 21:20

   Economic shock and the “three levers”: masks, testing, and contact tracing

   1. LFLex Fridman15:47

      Yeah. That's- there you go. That's a clickbait t- title for The Joe Rogan Experience. No, I- I just mean that, um, there is a danger here of people beginning to panic when, uh, when the economic impact hits. So there's, um, uh, 13% unemployment, I believe, uh, in the United States. So, uh, the- the Great Depression was 23%. So we have something like that. We're c- we're starting to creep towards that number, so that's 16 million people out of a job currently and that's-

   2. JRJoe Rogan16:20

      Well, I don't think we have any idea. When- the economics right now, we're- we're in limbo. We really are in limbo because how many businesses are gonna close because of this? How many people don't know that they're unemployed but are? How many businesses are barely hanging on and they might not make it to the end of the year? And if the economy takes a downturn because of all these people out of job, how many businesses that were barely hanging on before and they're still open now are gonna be gone in a couple of weeks?

   3. LFLex Fridman16:45

      Yeah.

   4. JRJoe Rogan16:45

      We really don't know and there's- the- I mean, how long do you think it's gonna take before businesses are up and running again? I know Wuhan is back up in business again, but there's a lot of criticism about that and they're- they're also saying they're seeing new cases.

   5. LFLex Fridman16:59

      I think the ques- I think it can be sooner than we think if we do the following things. So one, I'd hate to linger on this and I'd love to talk to you about-

   6. JRJoe Rogan17:10

      You gonna talk about masks again?

   7. LFLex Fridman17:12

      Ah. Well-

   8. JRJoe Rogan17:13

      Okay.

   9. LFLex Fridman17:13

      ... it- it's funny, but you're- you're- I- I know for a fact you're gonna make fun of me just like I'll make fun of you right back for, uh, loving fanny packs.

   10. JRJoe Rogan17:22

       (laughs)

   11. LFLex Fridman17:23

       But just like fanny packs are exceptionally functional to carry all the things you need, masks, uh, will be- will- masks are required-

   12. JRJoe Rogan17:31

       Yes.

   13. LFLex Fridman17:31

       ... to slow the spread of this infection.

   14. JRJoe Rogan17:33

       All right, listen, I'm not an anti-mask person.

   15. LFLex Fridman17:35

       And with like, one of the things you have to do is you have to start getting governors, so politicians to wear them, uh, our president, Trump, to wear them.

   16. JRJoe Rogan17:44

       Well, this is the Boris Johnson question, right? Because that guy, not only was he not wearing a mask, but he was shaking hands and he was talking about it pretty openly and now he's in intensive care. If he dies, that will be the biggest wake-up call for everyone.

   17. LFLex Fridman17:59

       Yeah.

   18. JRJoe Rogan17:59

       I mean, I hope he doesn't die, but goddamn, people are so mean over there. I don't know h- his policies. I don't know- I don't- I haven't been to England in a long time. I don't know how they feel about him, but fuck, people, some people hate him. The shit that I've-

   19. LFLex Fridman18:12

       Oh, like saying things like, "They w-"

   20. JRJoe Rogan18:14

       They're hoping he dies. They hope he suffers and dies. I've- I've read the- Twitter, Andrew Doyle, um, Andrew Boyle rather, um...... uh, the guy who wrote Woke.

   21. LFLex Fridman18:26

       Titian McGrath.

   22. JRJoe Rogan18:27

       Titian McGrath, yeah. His, uh, he ... Uh, but it was actually his own personal account. He, he published some of the tweets that people have written about ... We don't have to put it up there. I don't wanna up these people's signal, but it's just so heartless.

   23. LFLex Fridman18:41

       So, yeah, that's masks, but testing really-

   24. JRJoe Rogan18:44

       Testing, yeah.

   25. LFLex Fridman18:44

       ... the big one is, is ... There's three things, masks, besides like washing hands and social distancing, all that stuff. Masks, testing, and contact tracing. So, um-

   26. JRJoe Rogan18:56

       Contact tracing?

   27. LFLex Fridman18:58

       Con- so this is great. Let's, let's talk about this. First of all, I'm gonna keep ... I, I would-

   28. JRJoe Rogan19:04

       We get it, masks. We get it.

   29. LFLex Fridman19:05

       No, you don't get it. We don't get it.

   30. JRJoe Rogan19:06

       We don't get it?
6. 21:20 – 22:47

   Community, compassion, and how crisis changes social bonds

   1. JRJoe Rogan21:20

      I'm, I'm so freaked out about the loss of life and the loss of jobs and how people are getting s- it's, it's, it's really weird. The everything about it is weird. It's weird in our lifetime to be a part of something that's just affecting the entire world like this. But I've gotten a lot of messages from friends that are quarantined with their families and like, "We've never been closer." And that we realize that we're in this together because we realize that, you know, during these crazy times you, you realize what is important. Love, that silly little word you were talking about. Love and f- community and friendship. Like, my neighbors, everyone's so nice. Everyone's waving now and everyone's like saying hi and, you know, talking from over the side of the yard and "How's everything? You guys all right? Need anything? We're right here." There's a lot of this, like, comfort and warmth that, you know, I think I experienced a little bit of that post 9/11 where people get shocked, they get shook up, and then they realize what matters, you know?

   2. LFLex Fridman22:17

      Yeah. Th- that's one of the things I don't like about masks is, uh, it feels like you're protecting yourself from ... Like you're removing yourself from the community.

   3. JRJoe Rogan22:26

      Yes.

   4. LFLex Fridman22:26

      There's that look and-

   5. JRJoe Rogan22:28

      Like, get away from me dirty people.

   6. LFLex Fridman22:29

      Yeah. Get away from me. So the germophobe kind of idea.

   7. JRJoe Rogan22:32

      Mm-hmm.

   8. LFLex Fridman22:32

      That's not what they are supposed to represent, but that ... I'm sitting here on the science that says we have to all wear them and then thinking like, how is that gonna change interactions? It's, um, it ... I don't know what to do with that. I mean-

7. 22:47 – 28:11

   UFC ‘fight island,’ event testing, and pandemic timelines for “normal”

   1. JRJoe Rogan22:47

      Now, you're an MMA fan.

   2. LFLex Fridman22:48

      Yeah.

   3. JRJoe Rogan22:49

      What do you think about the UFC's decision to have fights next weekend?

   4. LFLex Fridman22:52

      On an island? Is that-

   5. JRJoe Rogan22:53

      I don't know wh- We don't know where it is. I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing, if I'm going to it or not. I don't know where it is.

   6. LFLex Fridman22:58

      Like commentating?

   7. JRJoe Rogan22:59

      Yeah. I don't know where it is. I don't even know if it's in America. I, I literally right now, as of right now, I don't know shit. I have no information.

   8. LFLex Fridman23:07

      (laughs) Okay, so first of all, if it's on an island, like I saw, like it's, it's-

   9. JRJoe Rogan23:12

      Fight island.

   10. LFLex Fridman23:13

       It's literally-

   11. JRJoe Rogan23:14

       They're gonna buy an island.

   12. LFLex Fridman23:14

       ... the storyline of Enter the Dr- ... I mean this is-

   13. JRJoe Rogan23:16

       Yes, Enter the Dragon.

   14. LFLex Fridman23:18

       This is like, I don't know who the Bruce Lee is or the Chuck Norris.

   15. JRJoe Rogan23:21

       Should I get a Chinese Kung Fu outfit and do commentary with a Kung Fu outfit on?

   16. LFLex Fridman23:25

       100%.

   17. JRJoe Rogan23:25

       Would that be culturally appropriating?

   18. LFLex Fridman23:27

       At this ... (laughs)

   19. JRJoe Rogan23:28

       No, you know what I'll do? I'll wear one of them Bruce Lee tracksuits. That wouldn't be culturally appropriating.

   20. LFLex Fridman23:32

       Yeah. Well-

   21. JRJoe Rogan23:33

       That'd just be fandom.

   22. LFLex Fridman23:34

       In a time of coronavirus (laughs) , uh, you get a cultural appropriation pass.

   23. JRJoe Rogan23:39

       Okay.

   24. LFLex Fridman23:40

       I heard.

   25. JRJoe Rogan23:41

       Um-

   26. LFLex Fridman23:41

       Yeah. I, I, I ... To me, I think that's great because, um, it, if it's messaged correctly to show that we are f- while maintaining sort of social distancing, all those kinds of things, we're trying to fight to bring our society back.

   27. JRJoe Rogan24:01

       Okay, let me pause you right there.

   28. LFLex Fridman24:02

       Yeah.

   29. JRJoe Rogan24:02

       There's no social distancing in a fucking cage fight.

   30. LFLex Fridman24:04

       Yeah.
8. 28:11 – 50:40

   Election talk and the Joe Rogan ‘don’t get politics from me’ disclaimer

   1. JRJoe Rogan28:11

      I wonder what they're gonna do with the US election?

   2. LFLex Fridman28:14

      Mail in.

   3. JRJoe Rogan28:15

      Oh.

   4. LFLex Fridman28:16

      Oh, no, no, no. I have an idea. We'll, just postpone it until, uh ... I'm just kidding.

   5. JRJoe Rogan28:21

      Postpone it's not a bad idea.

   6. LFLex Fridman28:22

      No, it's, it's a terrible idea.

   7. JRJoe Rogan28:24

      Oh, one thing I do have to say, 'cause I can't believe this is still going on, dude, 'cause there's a, a big dust up recently 'cause I said that I wouldn't vote for Biden, that I'd vote for Trump before I voted for Biden. I just want people to know, first of all, folks, I'm barely paying attention. Okay? If you're getting your political advice from me, I'm a moron. Okay? I am a comedian/cage fighting commentator. You know how you have friends that don't know much about fighting and they'll say something like, uh, "I think Bruce Lee could kick Jon Jones's ass." Yeah. That's me with politics. Okay? Don't listen to me for political advice. You wanna listen to people f- p- with, for political advice? Listen to people that are actually paying attention. Listen to guys who, that's their living, guys like Kyle Kulinski. Listen to Jimmy Dore. He does a fantastic job breaking down politics. He understands it, right? Listen to the people that ru- The Hill, l- watch that show. It's fantastic. It's on YouTube. There's a lot of people. David Pakman, he understands politics. I'm not that guy. Okay? But what I am saying is, I don't wanna vote for someone that has a mental problem. He's got dementia. That's all I'm saying. My parents called me. My mom's like, "I heard you're a Trump supporter now." I'm like ... (bangs table) (sighs) I would never vote for a person who obviously has dementia. I said I would vote for Trump before I'd vote for Biden. That's what that means. You know, and there's been fucking d- dozens of articles written about this. I'm like, "Jesus Christ."

   8. LFLex Fridman29:51

      Trump tweeted.

   9. JRJoe Rogan29:52

      He tweeted that?

   10. LFLex Fridman29:53

       Like, he tweeted a clip of you saying that you're a Trump supporter.

   11. JRJoe Rogan29:57

       No, he didn't.

   12. LFLex Fridman29:58

       Yeah.

   13. JRJoe Rogan29:59

       When did this happen?

   14. LFLex Fridman30:00

       Like, uh, shortly after.

   15. JRJoe Rogan30:01

       Get the fuck outta here.

   16. LFLex Fridman30:02

       I'm pretty sure. I re-t- we, uh, uh, a retweeter tweeted. I'm not sure.

   17. JRJoe Rogan30:06

       That's hilarious.

   18. LFLex Fridman30:07

       Yeah.

   19. GUGuest30:07

       Sure?

   20. LFLex Fridman30:08

       I'm, uh ...

   21. GUGuest30:09

       Could've been one of those fakey Donald Trump accounts. (laughs)

   22. JRJoe Rogan30:12

       (laughs)

   23. LFLex Fridman30:12

       No, I'm pretty sure.

   24. GUGuest30:13

       It looks, it looks deceiving.

   25. JRJoe Rogan30:13

       Maybe it was Trump Jr.?

   26. LFLex Fridman30:14

       I, uh-

   27. JRJoe Rogan30:14

       Was it Donald Jr.?

   28. LFLex Fridman30:15

       I have a programmatic way of following Twitter and I follow Trump.

   29. JRJoe Rogan30:19

       Okay. Either way, I just want everybody to know, this is ... All I'm saying is I think the Democrats are making a horrible mistake by putting in a g- he just had a, another huge stumble yesterday.... the man is ill. I wish him no, no ill will. I'm not a, I'm not a, a Biden hater.

   30. LFLex Fridman30:35

       What do you think, um-
9. 50:40 – 58:12

   WWII perspective, Lex’s grandfather, and a serious original song about love

   1. LFLex Fridman50:40

      And the scale of WWII did that from, from where I came from in Russia. That's where, that's why I have my guitar here. Uh-

   2. JRJoe Rogan50:49

      You wanna play a song?

   3. LFLex Fridman50:49

      ... well, maybe if I-

   4. JRJoe Rogan50:50

      How about right now?

   5. LFLex Fridman50:51

      Okay, well, (laughs) okay.

   6. JRJoe Rogan50:53

      I'll spark up a joint, I wanna hear this.

   7. LFLex Fridman50:57

      But the reason I actually messaged Jamie and asked, "Do you think it's okay if I play," uh, "play a song on Jerry and say-"

   8. JRJoe Rogan51:05

      Come on, man. Your poem that you read last time was the shit.

   9. LFLex Fridman51:08

      Well, but I, I messaged him without having a song. (laughs)

   10. JRJoe Rogan51:12

       You didn't have a song?

   11. LFLex Fridman51:13

       No, no. I was just, I was thinking about, so I've been reading a lot about WWII recently, before the coronavirus. And then I found out, I learned about my grandfather who was, uh, age 17, which actually tells you a lot. You have to be 18 to be in the army. And he sort of faked his doc-... Uh, that was, that was what everybody did. Young kids wanted to, to fight for their country. It's a interesting kinda story. You're not, they, they weren't dr- they weren't dodging the draft.

   12. JRJoe Rogan51:40

       Hmm.

   13. LFLex Fridman51:40

       They, everybody wanted to, to fight for their country and die for th-... At that stage, in 1941, when Germany invaded the, the Soviet Union, the order from Stalin was that if you get captured, you have to kill yourself.

   14. JRJoe Rogan51:57

       Whoa.

   15. LFLex Fridman51:57

       So there's no surrender. So you have to, I mean, that's the spirit that you're fighting with. And so the only way out is, uh, i- if you're a soldier, is death or severe injury. And in terms of being lucky, I've been thinking about my grandfather a lot, who was severely injured. He was on a machine gun, he fought actually alongside, uh, um, Mikhail Kalashnikov, AK-47 inventor.

   16. JRJoe Rogan52:27

       Really?

   17. LFLex Fridman52:27

       Yeah. So that's, that's, AK-47 came from WWII. That's a design from, from there. And so your, your job is, so Germany in the fall of 1941 is marching towards Moscow. And your job is basically to be a human, just a thing that slows them down long enough to where it, it, they don't reach Moscow until winter, which would, uh, give an advantage, which allow Moscow to defend, uh, easier. So winter is very difficult to fight, e- even in WWII in Russia. So your basic job is to slow down the troops. So you're sitting there with a machine gun, which is exceptionally difficult to carry, and you're just emptying all your bullets. And so most people are dead and like-

   18. JRJoe Rogan53:17

       How, how heavy is that machine gun?

   19. LFLex Fridman53:19

       That was one of the huge criticisms. There's a particular model, I forget, but most machine guns at the start of... They're using basically WWI weapons in WWII. And that, uh, the machine guns that they were using had this giant metal shield that, you know, that you hide behind as you're shooting. And that shield would turn out to be exceptionally heavy. So you, it's not something you can carry easily. So it's, uh, I would, I would venture to say it's probably like 200 pounds, that kind of thing.

   20. JRJoe Rogan53:47

       Fuck.

   21. LFLex Fridman53:48

       Yeah. So you're dragging it, you know, through the mud, through all of that. And while bullets are flying, so you're, um-

   22. JRJoe Rogan53:55

       That's it right there?

   23. LFLex Fridman53:56

       I don't know the exact, uh, yet. Should be, uh, pretty close probably. Yeah, probably.

   24. JRJoe Rogan54:01

       Wow.

   25. LFLex Fridman54:01

       But you have to look at Soviet Union where the equipment was not great, so you're basically throwing human bodies. And I mean, the, so I was thinking about how lucky, uh, be- because I'm alive because the bullets, like he got hurt, uh, his leg, he got hurt in his leg, and I'm alive because he got hurt. Because, uh, m- severely where he couldn't continue, because that's the only way out. And sort of mo- most of his, most of his brothers are dead.

   26. JRJoe Rogan54:35

       (exhales)

   27. LFLex Fridman54:36

       Right? And that's, y- you're talking about 75 million people died in WWII.

   28. JRJoe Rogan54:41

       Jesus Christ.

   29. LFLex Fridman54:41

       Most of them in Europe. And 50 million of them, 50 million is civilians, so people without a gun.

   30. JRJoe Rogan54:48

       50 million.
10. 58:12 – 1:13:54

    Learning guitar like training: daily practice, fundamentals, and jiu-jitsu parallels

    1. JRJoe Rogan58:12

       You, the... I've said this before, one of the things I love about music is I have zero talent. I have none. I don't, I don't know how to play anything. That's why, like Jamie thinks it's funny I don't know what tuning is. I love things that I don't know nothing about.

    2. LFLex Fridman58:23

       Yeah.

    3. JRJoe Rogan58:24

       And I, I know that there's a rabbit hole of learning music that, like, did you ever see the movie Groundhog Day?

    4. LFLex Fridman58:30

       Yeah.

    5. JRJoe Rogan58:30

       Great movie.

    6. LFLex Fridman58:31

       Great.

    7. JRJoe Rogan58:31

       Saw it last night. We have family night, we were watching movies.

    8. LFLex Fridman58:33

       You're going, like, old school movies. Like, I saw-

    9. JRJoe Rogan58:35

       Yeah, yeah, yeah.

    10. LFLex Fridman58:35

        ... you were watching Adam Sandler something.

    11. JRJoe Rogan58:36

        I'm a Adam Sandler junkie right now. I've watched them all. Dude, his fucking movies are so overrated, it's insane.

    12. LFLex Fridman58:44

        Underrated.

    13. JRJoe Rogan58:45

        Un... Did I, did I say over?

    14. LFLex Fridman58:46

        More like.

    15. JRJoe Rogan58:46

        Yeah, I'm saying that a lot, underrated.

    16. LFLex Fridman58:47

        You said the names right, of the movies.

    17. JRJoe Rogan58:48

        Yeah, I got the names right. I saw the Bert Kreischer thing.

    18. LFLex Fridman58:50

        (laughs)

    19. JRJoe Rogan58:50

        Excuse me, his movies are so fucking underrated. They're amazing. The, the fucking Zohan, Don't Mess With The Zohan is one of the funniest movies I've ever seen.

    20. LFLex Fridman58:59

        Yeah.

    21. JRJoe Rogan58:59

        I was crying laughing in that movie. He just goes for it. These movies are so silly, they're so good.

    22. LFLex Fridman59:04

        But his serious movies are really good. Like his latest one is really, really good too.

    23. JRJoe Rogan59:07

        I heard it's amazing. I haven't had a chance-

    24. LFLex Fridman59:09

        It's so good.

    25. JRJoe Rogan59:09

        ... to see it, Uncut Gems. But anyway, um, in Groundhog Day, which is a Bill Murray movie, different thing, but another old school movie from like 90-something. Um, Bill Murray lives the same life over and over again. And g- no matter what he does, kills himself, keeps waking up, same guy over and over again. But he learns how to play the piano, because he's like, "Fuck it. I should just learn a bunch of things."

    26. LFLex Fridman59:29

        (laughs)

    27. JRJoe Rogan59:29

        And so by the end of the movie, spoiler alert, he... I mean, it's a fucking 30-year-old movie, but he knows how to play the piano. He knows how to do a million different things. And, uh, I remember thinking, like, that, that is really almost what it takes to be an adult and learn how to play the piano. You must, you must have an unlimited amount of time, because to, to delve into music, like, to, to really learn how to play... Like if you're a Hendrix fan, I'm a huge Hendrix fan, right? That's the reason why this podcast is named The Joe Rogan Experience. I stole the name from Hendrix. But I'd... The idea of me learning how to play guitar, being a Hendrix fan, trying to be as good as Hendrix, or trying to mimic, like, what he did, that's too much. There's too... That's too far. I'm like, you're walking to the sun. Like, that's too far. You're never gonna get there. There's no... That's, that's... You know how much time... That's how I look at it.

    28. LFLex Fridman1:00:16

        Yeah, but-

    29. JRJoe Rogan1:00:16

        I look at it like it's an impossible time hog.

    30. LFLex Fridman1:00:19

        Well, let's see if you can comment on this, because for me, because people ask me about guitar, like, "How the hell do you..." Because I do, like, you know, I'm a scientist that's doing AI stuff, like, how do you have time for the guitar? And, uh, the way I've learned guitar... And I won't show off the things I can do today (laughs) , I'll just show off my terrible voice, is to practice every day for, I would say, about five years, to practice for like 30 minutes a day.
11. 1:13:54 – 1:25:09

    Listening to music, Henry Rollins, and the pull between passion and family

    1. LFLex Fridman1:13:54

       And w- one of the things that worries me about Henry is, um ... So, he's not, I don't think, married and doesn't have family. So, I'm ... While that life seems appealing, I was ... 'Cause I'm in danger of going that direction. Uh, I-

    2. JRJoe Rogan1:14:08

       How old are you?

    3. LFLex Fridman1:14:09

       Uh, 36.

    4. JRJoe Rogan1:14:11

       Come on, man. You're fine.

    5. LFLex Fridman1:14:13

       No, but I'm so in love with so many things about this world, just like Henri, right?

    6. JRJoe Rogan1:14:17

       Right.

    7. LFLex Fridman1:14:17

       That, um, it's easy to let life slip away.

    8. JRJoe Rogan1:14:21

       Yes.

    9. LFLex Fridman1:14:21

       I mean, it's, um, it's a funny thing. It's, uh, 'cause i- if we're taking the one way, family and kids and wife is a kind of distraction. It's just one of ... Just yet another passion in a sea of passions, right? That it can often just be a distraction. But at the same time, the ability to share that over a long life, to share your passions, seems to be ... Like, everything I've seen, I don't have the experience, right? But everything I've seen, it is a profound and additive ... It's a profound thing to be able to share your passions with others close to you. I guess that doesn't have to be family.

    10. JRJoe Rogan1:15:01

        It is, it is that, but there's something different, um, on top of that. That's, um, my friend, Ray. Ray, uh, who, who goes by ... What does he go ... Raganov? How do you say it?

    11. LFLex Fridman1:15:13

        That was it.

    12. JRJoe Rogan1:15:14

        Ray. His name's Ray Capo. Uh, he said something to me once when he was really, when we were both really young. About, like, more than, more than 10 years ago. More than ... Probably like, when I was training with him, probably 2013. Like, 15, 16 years ago. Some how ... Maybe even 17 years ago. Somewhere around that range. But we were younger and he was talking about, uh, children and having children, and that for him, it was, there was part of it that was for his own personal edification. Like, he thought of children as being important for his own, like, growth as a human. And, you know, Ray's a deeply spiritual guy, he's a yoga teacher and he's like ... A- and I never thought of it that way. I was like, "You look at it, like, for your own ..." And I'm like, um, "Okay." And I think, as a man, and, and raising these little girls and seeing these daughters grow up, in ... For, for sure I've learned a lot about human beings. Um, but also I'd learned a lot myself about my perception of humans. Of babies to people. And I've talk- I talked about this on stage briefly, but it's too weird to sort of articulate in a joke. I u- I used to always think of people as being a static thing. Like, I'd see a guy and he's a 55-year-old, you know, truck driver, and I would think, "That guy has always been that guy." And now I go, "Oh, you used to be a baby." Like, I knew. Like, if you asked me, "Hey, was this guy ever a baby?" I would say, "Well, of course he was a baby." But I had never intellectualized it. I had never looked at it. And it instantly gave me so much more compassion and so much more, like, uh, acceptance of people. Like, a relaxed acceptance. Like, a forgiveness of a lot of stupid shit that people do and, and have done. I- I- I, I almost immediately, in raising kids, shifted that and thought, "Oh, you guys just got fucked over." (slams table) (sighs) You meet an asshole, you're like, "Oh, your dad was probably a piece of shit and you probably grew up in a terrible neighborhood, and you're probably, you know, ruined by your older brothers who were assholes. And maybe you lived in a neighborhood where kids were stealing from you and beating you up. Fuck." Like, that's how you get to be this guy. You don't get to be this guy because you just choose to be a piece of shit, you know? That's not what happens to people. You, you become something from your circumstances, your genetics. There's so much involved in who you are and we ... I don't think there's any... There's not much value in being mad at someone for who they are, you know? You could kinda be mad at the impact that it has on your life, their stupidity, and, and w- we're all, you know, justified in doing that. But I think one of the things about having children of your own is you realize when you see someone who's a mess, like, "Okay, I kinda, I kinda see. I understand how that can happen now." It was before, I would just be mad that it's there.

Episode duration: 3:17:09