EVERY SPOKEN WORD
150 min read · 30,035 words- 0:01 – 1:48
Rogan discovers Jack Carr’s novels: audiobooks, realism, and gear culture
- JRJoe Rogan
And we're live. Hey, what's up? How are you?
- JCJack Carr
Oh, hey. Thanks for having me on.
- JRJoe Rogan
My pleasure.
- JCJack Carr
This is awesome.
- JRJoe Rogan
My pleasure. Good to see you again. And good to-
- JCJack Carr
Good to see you.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know, when we first met, uh, I knew you were an author and I knew that Chris Pratt was involved in doing that thing with you, and that you guys were working towards making a se- which is happening now.
- JCJack Carr
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Which is very exciting.
- JCJack Carr
Crazy.
- JRJoe Rogan
But, uh, I'd never read any of your work until now. So, getting ready for this, I actually listened to the audiobook, which is really well done. The guy who reads it, what is his name?
- JCJack Carr
Ray Porter.
- JRJoe Rogan
He's fucking great.
- JCJack Carr
Yeah. He's awesome.
- JRJoe Rogan
He's, he's a little disturbing when he does a girl's voice. But- (laughs)
- JCJack Carr
There's no getting around that.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JCJack Carr
Like, if a guy's doing a girl voice, especially putting an accent to it-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJack Carr
... there's, like, no getting around the creepy part of that.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's a little, it's a little weird. But you, you take ... But he's so good at, like, Russian accents and then, uh, South African accents.
- JCJack Carr
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
And it's a really good book, man.
- JCJack Carr
Thank you.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's fucking riveting. Like, it's-
- JCJack Carr
Thank you.
- JRJoe Rogan
... it's hard to put down. It's, it's really good. And most of it I listened to either, uh, on workouts, walking, uh, hikes with the dog, or in the sauna. (laughs)
- JCJack Carr
Nice. Perfect place to listen to it.
- JRJoe Rogan
So I burned through it in a few days.
- JCJack Carr
Nice.
- 1:48 – 5:42
Carr’s long-term plan: become a SEAL first, then write novels after 20 years
- JRJoe Rogan
When you were in the SEAL team, did you think you were ever going to become an author? Is this something that you'd always had in the back of your head you would like to dabble in some day? Like ...
- JCJack Carr
Yeah. Yeah. It wasn't even a thing I was gonna dabble in. It was ... I was going to do it. Um, and since I was a little kid, my mom was a librarian, so I grew up surrounded by books and this love of reading from a very early age. And back then, like, so early '80s, there's hardly anything written about SEALs, uh, about what there is written is a- a lot of times from fiction. So-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJack Carr
... protagonists in different stories by guys like Tom Clancy, David Morrell, Nelson DeMille, A.J. Quinnell, all these guys in the '80s who had protagonists with backgrounds I wanted to have in real life one day. And I enjoyed reading them so much, I knew that after the military, then I would write. So I just said-
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- JCJack Carr
... that's gonna be the path.
- JRJoe Rogan
So you had kind of mapped it out. Join the military first, join the SEALs.
- JCJack Carr
Yep.
- JRJoe Rogan
And then, after you retire, then ... And, and how many years were you in for?
- JCJack Carr
20.
- JRJoe Rogan
You were in for tw- and then during that time, you had always mapped out that you were going to be an author when you were done?
- JCJack Carr
Yep. Yep.
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- JCJack Carr
I didn't really think about it while I was in. I wasn't writing, I wasn't practicing, but I was reading. So first, I'm a fan.
- JRJoe Rogan
Ah.
- JCJack Carr
I'm always a reader, uh, both fiction and non. So all those guys I read in the '80s, those were like my professors in the art of storytelling. And then I coupled that with the academic study of warfare, uh, terrorism, insurgencies, counterinsurgencies, and then the practical application from Afghanistan, from Iraq, and then it all kind of came together at the right time and place, as, as I was getting out. So for that last, like, year, year and a half, then I started writing, 'cause I wasn't taking guys down range anymore. My job was essentially to get out of the military. Uh, and 'cause it's ... You feel like you're the first person to do it, um, even though people do it every day. But you walk in, you need to get something signed or go to a meeting or get read out of a secret program or go to medical or dental. So your job becomes to get out of this gigantic bureaucracy. So during that time-
- JRJoe Rogan
How long did that take?
- JCJack Carr
That takes like a year. I mean, you can probably do it in a week.
- JRJoe Rogan
Really?
- JCJack Carr
Like Jocko didn't do any of it, from what I understand. He's just like, "No."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JCJack Carr
And he just left, like (laughs) ... You know. But, uh, no.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's so Jocko.
- JCJack Carr
You can tell him ... I know.
- JRJoe Rogan
I'm done.
- JCJack Carr
He's just like, yep, exactly.
- JRJoe Rogan
Bye.
- JCJack Carr
Yeah, he didn't do these transition classes you're supposed to do, and you sit there in these rooms and people drone on and on about transition and th- some options for you and you're ... Awful, horrible. But, uh, but I did it. I thought you had to. So you get something signed and off you go. But yeah, Jocko didn't do it.
- JRJoe Rogan
You don't have to do it?
- JCJack Carr
I think you do, just Jocko didn't.
- 5:42 – 8:51
Learning storytelling without writing school: Joseph Campbell, reading, and theme-first structure
- JRJoe Rogan
Did you take journalism classes or writing classes or ...
- JCJack Carr
Nope. It was all the reading, all that reading I did growing up. And, uh, my mom introduced me to a guy named Joseph Campbell back in 1987.
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, okay. Sure.
- JCJack Carr
So he did a, a series of interviews with Bill Moyers on PBS-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJack Carr
... called, uh, The Power of Myth. And he wrote a book called Hero With a Thousand Faces. So back in 1988, so I'm, I don't know, 11 years old or whatever, 12 years old, um, I get introduced to him. And I read that book and I watched all those interviews and I read the book that came out called The Power of Myth based on those interviews. And I think I applied that paradigm, that model of the hero's journey, the monolith, to really every, every movie I watched, every series I watched, every book I read from then on. And that really helped as I made the transition, because I had this foundation. It wasn't just like I woke up one day and said, "You know what? Can you make money at writing? Oh, that sounds like a good thing to do. I'll, I'll go back and read and I'll go back and see, kind of figure out the history of this genre." No, I already had that figured out, because I did it my whole life and it was that foundation. So that was already there. And while I was in the military, I kept reading for fun. Read, read those, uh, fiction books still, and I discovered Stephen Hunter and Brad Thor and Vince Flynn and Daniel Silva and, uh, and now Mark Greaney today. So those are kind of the, the, the, kind of the bigger names in the genre. And, but then I was also studying, studying all that non-fiction stuff, trying to stay up on my game to make my, make the best decisions I possibly could under fire for the guys when it mattered. So, um, just always studying, always reading. When I was down range, I never really watched a movie or played video games. It was always, if I wasn't out operating or we weren't, uh, putting together a target package, I was reading.
- JRJoe Rogan
That's interesting, because I, I would think...... that most people that would venture for, and become a professional novelist, they would have some sort of background in writing, like some sort of education, some classical education, English literature or something.
- JCJack Carr
Yeah. No, it was all reading. It was all-
- JRJoe Rogan
Wow.
- JCJack Carr
... knowing what I liked, knowing what I didn't like. And that's why the first novel is really all about revenge, because that theme resonated with me. Obviously, it's resonated with people from the beginning of time, from telling those stories around campfires, usually, uh, told in a way to pass on some sort of a lesson about something to the next generation so they don't have to learn the same lessons in blood, but they're told as a story and passed down that way. And I think that's, that's why there's so many Death Wish movies.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs) Right, right, sure.
- JCJack Carr
You know, it's why there's just ... 'Cause you can't, if someone cuts you off in traffic, you can't go out and do something, or someone, you know, at work, there's some politics, you don't get the promotion or whatever, you get mad. You can't do anything about it. But you can in the pages of a novel. You can escape there or you can escape in the movie theater, and you can see somebody that goes out and gets this revenge and it makes you feel good 'cause you know you can't do it. 'Cause in real life, if you do it, you're gonna go to jail, you're gonna get the death penalty. It's not possible, but you can do it in the ... You can explore all that in the pages of a fictional thriller. So, uh, I think that's why it resonates with, uh, with people. And then, in this particular case, I got to take the emotions and feelings behind things I was involved in down range, and then just apply them to a fictional narrative. So I didn't have to talk to somebody and say, "Hey, how did, how did it feel to be a sniper in Ramadi in 2005, 2006?"
- JRJoe Rogan
Right.
- JCJack Carr
And then filter that through whatever biases I had or whatever my ex-
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJack Carr
... past experience or whatever, and then put it into a fictional narrative. No, I just took my experience and then just morphed it and put it into the narrative. So it, uh, it ended up being very therapeutic.
- 8:51 – 14:25
Breaking into publishing: skipping the agent hunt and getting a boost from Brad Thor
- JRJoe Rogan
So did you approach, um, an agent first? Like, how did you get started?
- JCJack Carr
Thank goodness I didn't know you're supposed to do that.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JCJack Carr
(laughs) 'Cause I'd probably still be looking for one today. So I did very little research on that front, 'cause I think that a lot of people can study how to do something too much or too long. And it's gonna be different for everybody, but, you know, some people can study how to do something their whole life and never actually do it, uh, 'cause you only have a certain amount of bandwidth. And for me, I read ... So Steven Pressfield, who's become a great friend now, who was on this show, um, a while back, he wrote, uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
I love that guy.
- JCJack Carr
He's so great. Yeah. He wrote Gates of Fire, Legend of Bagger Vance, The Afghan Campaign, and then has those series of books on creativity.
- JRJoe Rogan
The War of Art is-
- JCJack Carr
The War of Art, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
... just an absolute classic.
- JCJack Carr
You gave that out to people, right? For a while?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah. I had a stack of them-
- JCJack Carr
You had a stack. Mm-hmm.
- JRJoe Rogan
... that I used to keep at the studio.
- JCJack Carr
Yeah. So he's, uh, he's amazing. And actually, (laughs) listening to him on this show, uh, before I started writing gave me the idea of writing a one-word theme down to keep me on, on point. So I wrote "revenge" for that first novel on a yellow sticky. But he didn't really say this on your show. He was talking about somebody else who, a playwright, who would write a sentence to keep him on theme. But somehow, through my filters, I heard him say, uh, a, a one-word theme on a yellow sticky on my computer, and so I did the same thing. So it wasn't ... (laughs) It's not really what he said on the show, but I took it as what he said, and I wrote it down.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- JCJack Carr
And that really, for the first book, Revenge, second book, Redemption, and then fourth book, I morphed, or third book, I morphed it a little bit, Dark Side of Man. But, uh, so those are the themes that really kept me on track, but-
- JRJoe Rogan
And you're on the fourth one right now? You're working on it?
- JCJack Carr
On the fourth one, yep. Yep.
- JRJoe Rogan
How long does it take you to do one?
- JCJack Carr
Uh, the first one can take as long as you want because you have to have, for fiction, you have to have the finished product. So for nonfiction, you can sell, like, an idea, a chapter, an outline, something like that. Like, if you're coming from sports or politics, uh, you know, you can sell that idea 'cause they know they're gonna get some sales. For this, you have to have the whole manuscript done. So the first one took about just shy of two years. Um, and you get it as good as you can possibly get it. And then what you're supposed to do is go to an agent, but I didn't know that, thank goodness. Um, because I didn't do ... I, I did that research I talked about with Steven Pressfield's books on creativity, War of Art, Authentic Swing, uh, Turning Pro, Do the Work. I read those. Read Stephen King's On Writing, David Morrell's-
- JRJoe Rogan
That's a great book too.
- JCJack Carr
Yeah, it's great.
- JRJoe Rogan
Stephen King's books, fantastic.
- JCJack Carr
So good, 'cause it's ... It's an autobiography, really.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, yeah.
- JCJack Carr
It's not just about writing.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJack Carr
It's about his, his entire life. Uh, David Morrell is the succ- successful novelist. And I think those were the, those were the main ones that I, that I read. And then I was like, "Okay, got it." And I put those within sight of me and my computer, but I didn't touch them again, and I ... But they were there, so I would look to them for inspiration as far as, oh, Steven Hunter says you're a prof- Or sorry, Steven Pressfield says you're a professional, uh, you're a writer, you sit down and write, uh, writer's block doesn't exist 'cause it doesn't exist for dentists or truckers or doctors.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJack Carr
You don't get doctor's block, so you don't get writer's block. You're a professional, and you write. So just having them that close, uh, really helped with that transition. And I made the decision to, uh, once I was a SEAL, and now, I write. Uh, so I think that really helped. But I didn't know you needed, (laughs) you needed an agent. Um, and thank goodness I didn't because, uh, otherwise, like I said, I'd still be looking for one. 'Cause those are the gatekeepers, essentially.
- 14:25 – 23:36
Author life as a startup: writing schedule, publicity demands, and managing attention at scale
- JRJoe Rogan
So how many hours a day do you think you were putting in?
- JCJack Carr
Gosh. So it's not like hours. I mean, I would love to get on a discipline-type schedule, like a Jocko-type schedule, some day, but, uh, I'm not quite there yet. Especially at this stage, where I'm still feel... I still feel like this is a startup, and I can't say no to a lot of things. Um, I need to take advantage of emerging opportunities, just like I would on the battlefield. Uh, looking at the enemy, they're learning from us, we're learning from them, uh, and it's really who adapts quicker. You're looking for those emerging opportunities, taking advantage of momentum, um, looking for gaps. So the same things that you would do for a startup or starting, like, a coffee shop somewhere, you have to do for writing. And I didn't really get that at the outset.
- JRJoe Rogan
Like, how so?
- JCJack Carr
So I... You- you're not just writing and sending it to New York, which is what I thought up until about the time I published the first one. I thought you just went back and forth with an editor a little bit, and then you start the next book. Well, really, you have to do, uh, advertising, branding, co-branding, you know, your marketing stuff, your budgets, your social media. Like, anything you would have to do with any other business that you're starting up, you have to do as an author.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- JCJack Carr
So, uh, so I kind of treated it as a startup. And starting it, like, just like you're starting something in your garage, and you're hungry, and you're passionate, and, uh, you're seeing an opportunity here or there, and you're... And you just wanna build this readership and, uh, let people know that you have this character and see where it goes. So, uh, so it's been a, a sprint. So point being, uh, at some point, I think you get to a stage where you can say no, and you don't have to sprint off in all these different directions, uh, almost at the same time. Um, and you can say, "Okay, you know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna wake up, and I'm gonna write for four hours. And it doesn't matter if someone calls for an interview or if CNN wants you on or Fox News wants you on. Doesn't matter. I'm just gonna do my four hours, and then after that, then I'll check my texts, then I'll check my emails. And if something comes up, yeah, we can schedule it out maybe later in the week." But right now, it's just like, "Oh, really? Fox wants me on?" Bam, you know, I'm on.
- JRJoe Rogan
Hmm.
- JCJack Carr
And then all of a sudden, now I'm not writing for those four hours in the morning.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right, right, right.
- JCJack Carr
So usually, it's, uh... The first novel, and these... and this... (laughs) all the others, uh, were really done between 10:00 at night and about 4:00 in the morning, because that's the time it was quiet in our house with three kids, a dog, wife, and all the home interruptions. (laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah, that's how I do standup writing too. Same thing. When everyone's asleep, you do your best work, yeah.
- JCJack Carr
It's crazy 'cause there's no one interrupting, 'cause interruptions kill you.
- JRJoe Rogan
But I have friends that feel like they can't work like that, and they only work good if they get up in the morning and then write immediately.
- JCJack Carr
Ah.
- JRJoe Rogan
They write even before breakfast.
- JCJack Carr
So I was getting up and working out like that.
- JRJoe Rogan
You know?
- JCJack Carr
Up until, up until the publication of the first book, and then things got a little crazy.
- JRJoe Rogan
The publicity stuff and all, yeah.
- JCJack Carr
Publicity stuff and then writing late at night also, working on the next one, dialing that in, and then you're editing one while you're writing another. So you're kind of juggling-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, wow.
- JCJack Carr
... at the same time when you're on this-
- JRJoe Rogan
Oh, Jesus.
- JCJack Carr
... book-a-year, uh, type program. That's what you're, that's what you're doing. Um, and maybe I'll get past that at some point, and I'll have a s- end date, and then I'll start the next one. But right now, it's not, uh, not quite like that yet. So my mornings were taken up with getting up early and... Not anymore. (laughs) I need to get back after it, but in Park City where we live, there are some crazy in-shape people out there.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJack Carr
And I happen to know a couple of them, so as soon as we moved out there after the Navy, they're like, "Hey, come, come meet. We gotta go work out." It's 5:30 in the morning, and I know Jocko's been up for two hours already.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JCJack Carr
But for me, that's pretty good. So waking up at 5:00, getting down there and doing these crazy trail runs, CrossFit stuff, jumping in the pool, do- all sorts of crazy stuff that these guys put together, and it's like five or six CrossFit workouts meshed into one with trail running, with the endurance side. And, uh, yeah, hoping-
- JRJoe Rogan
What, what group are you in with that's doing this? Is it a local gym or...
- JCJack Carr
Yeah, we go... We meet at the local gym, but, uh, Hobie Darling, who is the CEO of Skullcandy, he's like all into human performance at all levels. Um, the emotional, physical, mental, spiritual, like, being the best, like, human he can possibly be, like-
- 23:36 – 29:08
SEAL training realities and tech creep: functional fitness, Hell Week monitoring, and COVID surveillance fears
- JCJack Carr
... uh, I never worried about how hard it was to get out. Like, I didn't worry about how hard it was to get into the SEAL teams or get to, get to BUD/s. All I knew that it, it was very hard. And that, for me, that was enough. So I was like-
- JRJoe Rogan
But it can be done.
- JCJack Carr
People have done it before.
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJack Carr
Um, and so even growing up, even... So mid-'80s, I'm still doing, like, what today people would call CrossFit. Uh, so I'd get home from school, I'd run the hill by the house, I'd go under the basketball hoop and then pull myself through, you know, in these kind of, you know, pull-up things, you know? We had a jungle gym in the backyard, so I'd do some regular pull-ups there, change my grip, uh, put a j-... put a rope up in the backyard. So I was doing that. I had my bow out, so I'd shoot for the high, high heart rate and everything. So I was doing all those things. And then I was reading, like, Zen and the Art of Archery, um, and I was reading, well, the nonfiction stuff on warfare. And I was reading these... those authors I talked about earlier that I, that... whose genre I'm writing in today. Um, so I was doing all of that stuff. But I wasn't focused on how hard it was.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJack Carr
Or, "Oh, maybe I'm not gonna make it. Am I good enough?" I'm like, "Well, I'm gonna get myself as good as I possibly can by doing all the things that I think I need to do." And now you can type in, like, Navy SEAL workout program, and you... There's so many. You know?
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJack Carr
You wouldn't believe 'em. It's hard to pick which one. Back then there was nothing, you know? So I'm like, "What do I see? I see them running in the sand. I've seen a couple pictures like that. I see these guys in Vietnam with these guns." And I'm like, "Okay, I've seen a couple movies." And, "Okay, what are you gonna do? Okay, you're gonna climb this tree, you're gonna do this rope stuff, do these hill sprints." Uh, so I just did that. Uh, and-
- JRJoe Rogan
Did you have, like, a program that you wrote out? Or did you just-
- JCJack Carr
Nope.
- JRJoe Rogan
... wing it?
- JCJack Carr
Nope, just as many kind of-
- JRJoe Rogan
Work out till you're tired?
- JCJack Carr
Yeah, which is very similar to actually when I got to the SEAL teams, where it was pre-CrossFit days and all that. So you ran as far as you could as fast as you could in sand, and then you came back and you lifted as heavy weights as you possibly could. Like that... Like Arnold Schwarzenegger, you know, 1980 Encyclopedia of Bodybuilding.
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JCJack Carr
Like, that was the workout up until probably early 2000s.
- JRJoe Rogan
So early 2000s, what changed?
- JCJack Carr
Uh, CrossFit came on the scene.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm.
- JCJack Carr
Uh, that was huge. Uh, we adapted or adopted it fairly quickly, 'cause the SEAL teams-
- JRJoe Rogan
CrossFit seems great until things go wrong.
- JCJack Carr
What?
- JRJoe Rogan
Seems great until your joints start going, or your back starts going.
- JCJack Carr
Yeah, and by CrossFit I just kind of mean functional fitness in general.
- JRJoe Rogan
Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- JCJack Carr
I don't really mean the actual, actual program. But, uh, but first, yeah, those programs came out and people would get on and say, "Oh, look. Look at this thing."
- JRJoe Rogan
(laughs)
- JCJack Carr
"This is new. Give it a shot with me." And it took a, it took a little bit of time, but some guys jumped right on. And, uh, and... But really, what it showed us... And then...... right about that time, also war kicks off and, and all that. And we realize, okay, you're at 10,000 feet in these mountains, you have a ruck on, you're a radio guy, you have a automatic weapon guy that has a ton of ammo, um, then you're going, you're hitting this compound and you're putting these ladders up and then you're going through these windows and sometimes there are these spaces you have to get into to clear where people are hiding or they're hiding weapons. Um, so, uh, encyclopedia bodybuilding, running as far as you could as fast as you could in sand, and that being all you did, um, there's probably a better way. So we were-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- 29:08 – 59:00
COVID origins, bioweapons research, and trust collapse: Wuhan lab theory and propaganda concerns
- JRJoe Rogan
I read a really disturbing thing today, and I'm not even sure if it's true, so we, we should find out right now. Clickity, clickity, click. Did the CDC stop tracking flu deaths for this year? Because this is what I read, and it might have been some wacko right-wing website that I was on.
- JCJack Carr
(laughs)
- JRJoe Rogan
So you never know. But, um, I was like, "This can't be true," because the real concern is that the CDC tracks flu and they find out that flu is lower or the same as COVID, and why are we making a big deal out of COVID? And then, you know, people riot in the streets.
- JCJack Carr
That's why people can't... y- it's hard to tell who to trust.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's hard.
- JCJack Carr
You see-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJack Carr
... two politicians and you see, uh... you don't trust either side and you see everyone trying to make a power grab and use this as a way to make power or hurt an opponent or whatever it is.
- JRJoe Rogan
Mm-hmm. Exactly. Yeah.
- JCJack Carr
And even with, uh... yes. The CDC, you don't know there. World Health Organization, you obviously can't tell there. You can't trust information coming out of other countries. So people at home are just like, "What do I, what do I do?" Safest thing to do is just to stay where I am. Uh-
- JRJoe Rogan
Yeah.
- JCJack Carr
... but you don't know who to trust. That's the whole thing.
- JRJoe Rogan
It's very hard. It's very hard to figure out who to trust, and doctors are giving disparate... What do we got?
- NANarrator
On, on their website I'm seeing information, uh, updated as of last week, April 18th.
- JRJoe Rogan
For flu deaths?
- NANarrator
For, like, it's on the CDC weekly flu surveillance inf- I mean, it's all of the flu information. I could-
- JRJoe Rogan
So how many people have died this year from the flu?
- NANarrator
Um... uh, I have to dig through here to find that information. Hold on a second.
- JRJoe Rogan
Because, um, the COVID deaths are... what is it at now? 55,000 I think? Something like that?
- NANarrator
For this country, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
I think it's more, right? Maybe 60,000 now?
- NANarrator
Closing in on that, yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Which is not a small number. It's a lot of people, but then you find out that, that, that's a bad year for the flu. That's normal. But obviously, this year we've locked everybody down, worldwide even, and, you know, there's, there's... there has to be a slower spread because of this quarantining and because of the social distancing. So you're... I would, uh, imagine you're getting far lower numbers than they would have gotten if everybody had just gone out into the streets.
- JCJack Carr
Oh, yeah. Yeah. No doubt about that. But-
- JRJoe Rogan
No doubt.
- JCJack Carr
... for, for flu, uh... and this is my understanding because in that fourth novel that I'm writing right now is deep into the study of infectious diseases and how-
- JRJoe Rogan
Perfect for you.
- JCJack Carr
Yeah.
- JRJoe Rogan
Perfect timing, right?
- JCJack Carr
It was crazy. Uh, and then how you weaponize those infectious diseases. Uh, what the Japanese did prior to World War II in that space, how they used them in World War II against the Chinese, what happened to that data afterward, after the war. Uh, the Soviet program from the end of World War II up to the collapse, what happened to that information. And then our programs today from the end of World War II up to... and continuing through today. So I was, I was keyed into all that ahead of time, and so it made me a little kind of hypersensitive-
Episode duration: 2:46:50
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Transcript of episode Ra4522ikFoU
